Part 2 of Matt's story dives deeper into the many years he spent in County Jail and Federal Prison. So much to learn and enjoyable to listen to! Please share the podcast with others and help us spread the word of hope!
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(00:00):
And that is the end of part twoof Tony and Matt's story.
That is pretty much.
Close to the conclusion ofMatt's story personally.
Next week we're gonna talk abouthow Matt and Tony got connected.
Uh, Tony actually startedbecoming his pen pal in prison.
It's a crazy and really amazingstory.
(00:21):
So join us next week and we willget into Tony's story and just
how Tony and Matt got connectedto begin with.
You're gonna love it, and thanksfor being with us this week.
We look forward to being withyou again next week.
God bless you.
Phil Shuler (00:36):
HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the
Safe House Ministries podcast,where we share stories of the
power of God to change livesthrough Safe House Ministries.
Safe House Ministries is basedout of Columbus, Georgia, and we
are a ministry that exists tolove and serve people who have
been affected by addiction,homelessness, and incarceration.
I'm your host, Phil Shuler, theDirector of Development for Safe
(00:58):
House Ministries here inColumbus, Georgia.
Safe House serves over 1, 100people each month as they
transition back into ourcommunity.
Safe House provides an abundanceof services including 213 beds
for homeless individuals andfamilies, case management for
obtaining job skills and longterm employment.
Over 300 hot meals every day,free clothing, and so much more.
(01:19):
One of the most incredibleservices that Safe House
provides is our free 9 12 monthintensive outpatient substance
abuse program, which is statelicensed, CARF accredited, and
has no wait list.
Almost 100 percent ofindividuals staying in our
shelters who follow our threephase program become fully
employed within a few months.
And 68 percent of individualswho stay at least one night with
(01:40):
us End up finding work andmoving into their own home.
Thank you for being with ustoday and listening to our
podcast.
We hope you enjoy this week'sepisode.
Matt (01:48):
we got together, we were still in like we were still in
mail outta mailboxes to get thecredit cards and checks and
money orders, stuff like that.
Yeah.
We could wash the checks, washthe money orders and refill'em
out to us.
But I had IDs, a bunch ofdifferent IDs with my picture
book with different folks'information.
So I fill it out to somebodyelse, go in somewhere and cash
(02:09):
it.
It's not on my real name.
none (02:11):
Yeah.
Matt (02:11):
And uh, we ended up the federal, uh, the postmaster
started doing a federalinvestigation on us.
'cause we were still in Mill.
And, uh, they kicked our door ina few times looking for us, but
we didn't stay there.
We at hotels or, yeah, we had anapartment out on south side of
Columbus, like just goingdifferent places.
Never got caught up.
(02:32):
And then, um.
I had someone that was living inmy house, and truthfully, still
to this day, I believe the guyset me up.
Wow.
He knew exactly where we weregoing and how, what vehicle you
were in, what vehicle I was in,and what route we go to get
there.
He knew everything.
Wow.
And the police was waiting onme.
He must
Phil (02:50):
have made a deal.
I guess he, he had some chargespending and he probably,
Matt (02:54):
and so, um, we, we were going and we had her kids with
us.
They were two 5-year-old twinsat the time.
And I made a stupid decisionthat when the police pulled me
over, once they got to the backof the car, it was gonna take
off.
And I did, like when
Phil (03:06):
they walked up to the car, you just hit the gas.
Right.
Matt (03:08):
Right.
And I did.
And man, I ain't even gonna lieto you.
Never had no issue with his car.
I drove this car, I gave it helland, and never had no issue with
this.
One time I turned a corner sharpand the battery fell over into
the motor.
What?
Shut the whole car off.
Wow.
Shut the whole car off.
Vulnerabilities.
Police got me they got me good.
Toni (03:30):
Hindsight's 2020.
But in that moment, that was thebeginning of God saving him.
Wow.
He had, he had to go.
Matt (03:38):
It is been a, it is been a couple weeks.
And I had, I, she was doingdope.
Like we were doing dope.
But there for a while, my, mylevel got up to about 10 grams
of dope a day.
And just my personal use.
Now,
Phil (03:52):
I don't know what that means.
Is that like really high?
Matt (03:55):
That's very, that's enough for probably 10 people, 10 to 12
people.
Wow.
But that was my tolerance levelgot so high from doing it.
Phil (04:03):
So the high wouldn't be as strong or intense.
Right.
And you'd have to take more toget that same level.
So you're just chasing it.
But each time you have to usemore and more and more.
You
Matt (04:12):
know how you form a tolerance to alcohol?
You could drink and drink it.
Like first time you drink acouple shots, you, or even
medication, any kind of, yeah.
Any type of medication.
Like, you build a tolerance toit.
And so after a while you have toincrease the dosage.
And over the time that I've beendoing dope, I had to increase
the dosage and I was probablydoing about 10 grams of dope a
(04:33):
day.
Just my personal use.
That's not including what I didwith everybody else.
none (04:36):
Yeah.
Matt (04:37):
Wow.
You know?
And for a couple weeks beforethat, I just like kept turning
down like, I'm good.
I don't want it, you know.
And I went and seen my mom oneday and uh, she asked me, she
said, you ever gonna get outtathis life?
And I said, probably not.
His mom
Toni (04:50):
had gotten clean at this point.
Really?
Matt (04:52):
Yeah.
My mom, she's been cleaningsince 2008 right now.
Toni (04:55):
Yeah.
Oh.
And today is her 63rd birthday,so happy birthday mama.
Aw.
Phil (05:00):
But
Toni (05:01):
uh.
Phil (05:02):
So how old were you at this time?
Matt (05:03):
This was 2017.
Hell, I don't know.
I lost count.
Yeah.
Toni (05:08):
2017, around
Matt (05:09):
30, maybe
Toni (05:10):
about
Matt (05:10):
33,
Toni (05:11):
I think.
Yeah.
Okay.
Somewhere around in there.
33, 34.
Okay.
So you've been in that, I thinkI just turned, had
Phil (05:15):
been in addiction in the darkness for a long time.
Yes, sir.
Toni (05:18):
14 years.
Matt (05:19):
And, uh, so I just kept turning the dope down.
I went and seen my mom one dayand she asked me, she said, are
you ever gonna get outta thislife?
I said, probably not, mom.
I'll probably die in it.
And uh, she told me, she said, Ihope not.
And I told her one the sametime.
I told her, I said, well, I praynot.
I said, I don't wanna be likethis forever.
But I knew that that was metalking to my mom.
(05:42):
I could be real with her, butwith everybody else, it is just
like, it is a party life.
It's whatever.
It trying to, at that point Iwas trying to make a well,
trying to survive.
Yeah.
It wasn't trying to make aliving.
It was trying to survive.
Yeah.
And being able to survive andthat far in addiction.
And then the stuff that I wasdoing on top of it, I knew I was
going to prison.
(06:02):
I knew it.
And I told my mom, I said, Ipray that I don't die in it.
I said, but I said, I know I'mgoing to prison.
She said, don't say that.
I said, mom, this was
Phil (06:10):
after you had gotten pulled over and like you were
waiting on your court trial or
Matt (06:13):
No, no,
Phil (06:14):
No.
This was prior to that.
Matt (06:16):
Yeah.
Phil (06:16):
Okay.
Matt (06:17):
And I told my mom kind of a
Phil (06:18):
foreshadow, like, you, you were prophesying what was to
come.
Matt (06:21):
And I told my mom, I said, I know I'm going to prison, but
all the stuff I've been doing,they done kicked my door in
three times looking for me.
I said, I know I'm going.
It is just a matter of when theycatch me.
And she said, well, what are yougonna do about it?
And I told her, I said, I'vealways said if I ever go to
prison due to my addiction, I'mdone.
Phil (06:36):
Really like you.
I've always said that.
Had that mental,
Matt (06:39):
I've always said it.
Wow.
Like after I, after I caught mymanufacturing charge and never
went to prison at first itstarted out as a game.
Like a joke.
Yeah.
If I go to prison, I'm done.
The further I dug intoaddiction, it was like, it was
becoming a reality.
Like if I ever go to prison, I'mdone.
I'm gonna better myself.
'cause there's no way I'm gonnago somewhere if you go to
(06:59):
prison, especially for the typeof stuff that I was doing, the
selling drugs or the credit cardstuff.
Either way you're going toprison for a while.
There's no way I'm gonna gosomewhere for a year or two or
more and then come back homeand, and get right back in the
streetlight.
There's no way.
Yeah.
But
Toni (07:15):
like a, a Stanton County Jail is.
At the time was nothing.
It was no big deal, man.
That was vacation for me.
Matt (07:21):
That, but when you're talking about
Toni (07:22):
years.
Years, wow.
Yeah,
Matt (07:25):
that,
Phil (07:26):
wow.
So you get pulled over'cause thebattery falls over into the
engine.
Right.
Matt (07:31):
I take off running in front of the police and the
battery falls over.
The engine car shuts off.
They get us out.
The police sets me in the backof the cop car.
Well, he asked me my name andstuff and uh, he is like,
nevermind, I don't need yourname.
Well, pulled my wallet outta myback pocket, a three or four IDs
in my wallet.
Wow.
My picture with different folkstold finally he is like, what's
your name?
So I tell him, he's like, yeah,you're who we're looking for.
(07:52):
And I say, yeah, I know.
Phil (07:53):
Oh
Matt (07:54):
man.
And um, he said, why didn't yourun?
And I said, truthfully don'tknow.
It's just the good thought I hadin my head at the moment.
He said, well, maybe not goodthought, but you thought it was
a good thought.
He thought it was.
That's a good thought I had.
And that's what I told him.
I said, just a good thought Ihad in my head.
And he said, well, it wasn't toogood for you, but luckily you
stopped.
And I told him, I said, do me afavor.
(08:15):
He said, what's that?
I said, take the jail.
I'm sleepy.
And he said, you going?
And he sent me in the back ofthe police car.
And uh, he asked me, he said, isthere anything else in the car
that I need to know about?
I told him no, I had an ounce ofdope and a gun under the center
console, which luckily theydidn't find it'cause I'd still
be in prison.
Phil (08:31):
Wow.
Matt (08:32):
Yeah,
Phil (08:33):
they just not searched the car or they just, uh, they
Matt (08:35):
searched the car, but it was a hidden compartment under
my center console that mostfolks don't know how to get to
it.
Phil (08:41):
So you kind of special made that, I guess.
Yeah.
Like you just created ityourself.
Matt (08:46):
Just pulled some stuff out and did this and did that, you
know?
Yeah.
But, um,
Toni (08:51):
tweakers are really good at tweaking things.
Ah.
So
Matt (08:55):
in that moment we had a bunch of credit cards on us
between, the girl was with metoo.
Her kids, like we both gotbusted.
Uh, we had a bunch of creditcards.
I had the IDs on me.
She had had a floorboard full ofmail where we've been checking
mailboxes all day.
And, uh, the police, he comesback to the car and he says, you
know, you're going away for along time.
I said, yeah, I need it.
(09:16):
And he said just pray about it.
He said something to come.
Phil (09:19):
He told you to pray about
Matt (09:20):
it?
Yeah, he did.
Phil (09:21):
Interesting.
Matt (09:22):
And, um, what's really interesting now is that I'm
friends with a lot of policeofficers.
Uh, I worked for Griffin andGriffin's Towing.
Uh, for a while and we had thatcontract with the city and a lot
of the officers are like,there's no way you're the same
person.
Toni (09:37):
They just, they can't like to see him shake the police hand
now and Wow them be proud to seehim.
Wow.
Like,
Matt (09:45):
it's, it's crazy.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Phil (09:48):
Wow.
That's a great turn of events,
Matt (09:50):
And, um, my, when I was in county jail,
Phil (09:54):
so he took you to county jail?
Yeah.
And you were there for,
Matt (09:57):
I got locked up January 5th, 2017.
And I came home October 9th,2020.
Phil (10:03):
Were you, did you stay in county jail or did you, okay.
Matt (10:05):
Uh, I stayed in county jail for I think about 11
months.
And then I went to FederalHolden'cause the US Marshals
picked my case up.
none (10:13):
Yeah.
Toni (10:14):
But this time in county jail is actually when he came in
contact with Neil.
Oh.
So that's
Phil (10:20):
where Safe House Ministries in the early days,
Neil, when he was chaplain atthe, at the jail.
Right.
That's, you met him.
He
Matt (10:26):
was Chap and, um, I did the Fatherhood program while
being in the county jail.
And, uh, so
Phil (10:32):
tell me how that started.
Like, so you, you're in thereand I guess the chaplain Neil is
just walking around getting toknow people.
Matt (10:39):
He will come around every now and then and see everybody
and, uh, he came around.
He asked one day in the dorm, hewas like, who in here has kids?
I raised my hand.
He was like, all right, youguys, come here.
Lemme talk to y'all.
So he came over there and hetold us, he said, look, I got a
program called the FatherhoodProgram.
And it was like, it's justlearning how to be a better
father.
And I told him, I said, chap, Iain't seen my kids in a long
(11:01):
time.
He said, well, this program'sfor you.
He said, sign up for it.
And uh, so I signed up for itand uh, I got picked and I
completed the program, did allthe book work and stuff.
Phil (11:11):
And, uh,
Matt (11:12):
my ex-wife at the time still wouldn't let me see my
kids.
Phil (11:14):
So had by that point, like when you're connected with Neil,
you got into the father program.
Had you, had you made thedefinitive decision that you
were gonna make a better life orwere you just exploring why not
try this kind thing?
Matt (11:27):
Oh no.
When I went inside the jail andthey booked me in and the lady
asked me, she says, sir, youwant your bond amount?
I said, I don't need it.
She said, why?
I said, I'm going to sleep.
And she said, what do you mean?
I said, I'm going up here.
I'm going to sleep and I'm gonnaget my life Right.
Phil (11:40):
Wow.
So that was the, I knew I goingthe straw that broke everything
and you're like, I can't do thisanymore.
Matt (11:45):
Yeah.
I knew I was going to prison andeven though I was mad about it,
I was happy.
because he knew that that was, Iwas mad that I got caught.
Phil (11:50):
So you wanted to get out.
Toni (11:52):
He knew that that was his only way.
That was my
Matt (11:54):
only escape.
Phil (11:55):
Yeah.
Matt (11:56):
Because only prison enough streets man is a casket or a
prison sentence.
And the only one that's gonnahelp you is the prison sentence
if you use it.
Right.
Phil (12:03):
Happen.
And you had, you were at thatplace for, you're like, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna take thisopportunity.
Which, which was disguised assome hardship and punishment,
but you're like, I'm gonna turnthings around.
Matt (12:12):
Exactly.
I mean, I didn't look at it asit was punishment.
I look at it as a savior for ourculture.
Just about, I mean, I've alwayssaid prison.
Prison saved me.
I
Phil (12:19):
love that perspective.
One thing that I've, I don'tknow, it is kind of weird to me,
is because the day that me andmy mom was having that
conversation and uh, I told her,I said, I pray that I don't die
in, in this lifestyle.
none (12:31):
Yeah.
Matt (12:32):
I stayed at her house that night and I sat out on the front
porch to smoke cigarette and Ijust, I don't know.
For some reason I felt like Ineeded to talk to God, so I
asked God to give me a way out.
Yeah.
It wasn't even a week later thatI was getting locked up.
Phil (12:45):
Wow.
Matt (12:46):
I've been running from the police ever since like 2006,
five and six when I starteddoing this.
Wow.
I've been running from thepolice.
I was pretty good at it.
Yeah.
Toni (12:55):
And here you have this vehicle that there were no
issues with, I've never had noissues, nothing wrong with, and
all of a sudden the batteryfalls out.
Engine, like I just turned realengine,
Matt (13:05):
To the left and the battery literally flipped over
into the engine and shut it alldown.
none (13:10):
Wow.
Matt (13:11):
I never had an issue with his car, never had an issue with
the battery rocking around ornothing.
He got
Toni (13:16):
what he asked for.
Love.
That was his way.
Love it.
I love it when
Phil (13:18):
God steps in and, you know, and
Toni (13:20):
it was so obvious.
Phil (13:21):
And he, and this was your chance.
And Neil, Neil was there.
God had Neil there.
And the opportunity for theFatherhood program, we
Toni (13:28):
actually still have his certificate of completion.
Right.
Wow.
And from that,
Phil (13:32):
I've heard a lot of good things about that program.
Matt (13:35):
It was actually really good.
And if you use it, not don't useit to learn how to be a dad, use
it to learn how to be a personand then you can become a dad.
Yeah.
And um, I did the fatherhoodprogram, completed it, graduated
and uh, then Chv, he was like,he asked me one day, he said,
(13:55):
you got your GEDI said, no, sir.
He said, sign up for theclasses.
after I completed my GED.
I think it was like two monthslater the US government picked
up my case and I went to federalHolden and I got up there and,
and the cellmate that I had, he,uh, he's real big into God.
Like he was on a 2-year-oldcase.
He done had turned his lifearound.
(14:16):
He was a youth pastor andeverything.
Wow.
And he got locked up.
Uh, he's right now he's in, uh,he's in a federal prison.
He got a 20 year sentence.
Wow.
You know, so he
Phil (14:27):
had changed his life and got on a better path, but he
still had to face theconsequences of
Matt (14:33):
all because of some he said, she said, but, um, he's
okay with it.
Like, I used to email with himback and forth and stuff, and
then life got so chaotic andhectic and just moving so fast.
Yeah.
I didn't message him for a whileand, uh, he got mad and just
removed me from his, uh, hisemail list in prison.
But,
Phil (14:53):
so you took actions to turn things around.
So you went through theFatherhood program with Neil in
the early days of Safe HouseMinistries.
Basically you got your GEDthousand.
What was, what was after that?
Matt (15:05):
Oh, when I got a federal holding my cellmate we call him
country.
He was into God real big andhe's, he got me into reading the
Bible something and likelearning different things that I
could do, which at the time Istill didn't know how to, uh,
process the whole God situation.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And, uh,
Phil (15:24):
but you were, you were familiar with the idea of God,
you did not have a personalrelationship with Jesus at that
point, right.
Matt (15:30):
And so our research and creating vulnerabilities in
Williams started reading Bibles.
I could ask him questions andstuff, you know, about different
things.
And, uh, I ended up going tocourt and get sentenced, and
then he went to court and gotsentenced the following week.
And so we split and wentdifferent ways when we went to
prison.
Toni (15:47):
But Matthew also got very lucky when it came to his
sentencing too.
Like I
Matt (15:51):
did.
Wow.
Um, with as much money as theywere trying to charge me with, I
could have got 196 months, whichis 15 years.
none (15:58):
Wow.
Matt (16:00):
I actually, me and my lawyer went and talked with the
prosecutor and the judge, and Itold'em like, if you'll gimme a
list of everything, I'llhighlight everything that I did.
And so they did.
I highlighted everything that II ain't gonna lie.
I highlighted what I knew theyhad me on camera doing,
Toni (16:18):
because technically they could only convict him of what
they had him on camera proof ofdoing.
Yeah.
Right.
Anything that was online or useof credit cards online over the
phone, they couldn't technicallyget him for it.
Which me, truthfully,
Matt (16:33):
I don't see how they got a, a$500,000 thing.
Like they had a lot of stuff inthere that I know me, nor the
girl that I was with, none of usdid that.
It was probably a book thisthick Wow.
Of different charges and stuff.
And I know there's no way thatwe did all of that and stuff.
But I highlighted what I did,what I had a part of, and, um, I
(16:56):
was just truthful with the judgeand the prosecutor and I was
like, look, I did all this.
And so there's like, this caseis complicated.
You got two co-defendants.
I was like two.
Who's the second one?
Well, come to find out the girlthat I was with while I was
locked up for five months beforeher and her baby's dad had got
into doing some of, some of thestuff too.
none (17:19):
Wow.
Matt (17:20):
And they had already started an investigation on
them.
So we actually got our casesplit up.
It was me and her, and then itwas her and him.
Phil (17:29):
It is complicated.
Matt (17:30):
It is.
It was real complicated.
And the judge was like, look,your case is complicated.
He was like,
Toni (17:35):
but he was the only man.
He was only one forthcomingwith, Hey, I, I'll own up to
this, you know, I'm gonna tellyou what I had a part of,
Phil (17:42):
they wouldn't do that though.
Matt (17:43):
I don't know if they did or they didn't really.
Phil (17:45):
Yeah.
Matt (17:45):
That's their business to talk about.
It's not mine.
Yeah.
Uh, but what I did was I wastruthful with what I'd done,
what I had a part in.
I wasn't telling'em nothingabout neither one of my
co-defendants.
Like if you wanna know somethingabout them, you ask them.
But the judge was like, thiscase is complicated.
He was like, so we gave us 30,45 minutes and we'll come back.
(18:05):
And when I came back my lawyerwas like, they're talking about
196 months.
He was like, but we got it down.
He was like, what you did showedcharacter good faith.
Mm-hmm.
And good faith.
And he was like, so they'reoffering you 42 months.
Cool.
Lemme sign that.
I didn't argue with'em.
Didn't fuss about it.
Nothing.
(18:26):
Lemme sign it.
Wow.
Which I was gonna sign the 196months.
Phil (18:30):
So that's like three and a half years.
Three and a half years
Matt (18:32):
in federal prison.
Well, they got me a 42 monthprison sentence, six month
halfway house.
Five years, uh, supervisedprobation.
Wow.
I got to prison.
I did two more fatherhoodprograms.
Phil (18:44):
Where you went to the federal prison,
Matt (18:45):
right?
It was, uh, it wasn'tfatherhood, it was parenting
programs.
I did two of them.
Yeah.
So
Phil (18:50):
you stayed on that path of I need to, to get, make a better
life growing learning, tryingto, yeah.
Matt (18:55):
I did.
Was it, was
Phil (18:56):
that a hard environment?
Matt (18:57):
It's only hard if you make it hard, man.
Phil (18:59):
You just kind of stay to yourself.
And like federal
Matt (19:01):
prison is a lot different than state, prison.
You can go in and get killed forlooking the wrong way.
none (19:06):
Wow.
Matt (19:07):
And federal prison, they have politics that protect the
inmates.
Like it is real different.
You don't go in there, you don'trun with gang.
Not the one I was at anyways.
When you go to federal prison,you get in a car if you want to,
and a car is like, you got aAlabama car, you got a Georgia
(19:27):
car, you got whatever stateyou're from is a car.
none (19:30):
Okay.
Matt (19:31):
But there's three different cars.
You got a white car, a blackcar, and an independent car.
Phil (19:35):
These are figurative cars.
Toni? (19:37):
Yes.
Yes.
So this is how they kind ofsegregate everybody.
Okay.
Matt (19:41):
Instead of calling into the gang gets a car.
Okay.
Well, and the bad part about itis.
When you get to r and d at yourprison, which, so you, and you
said
Phil (19:51):
a white car, like if you're a white person, right?
Like say everybody, it's kind ofsegregated by, so everybody from
Georgia Demographicsessentially, right?
Toni (19:59):
Yeah.
And the, the prisons do this andset it up this way to, it's
safer, minimize,
Matt (20:05):
it is safer the gangs and stuff for people because okay,
like I said, you got a Alabamacar, a Alabama white car,
Alabama black car, and anAlabama independent car.
When you, when you get to r andd, they ask you, RD is receiving
a discharge community.
All, when you get to RD they askyou, what car are you going in?
Phil (20:23):
You choose.
Matt (20:24):
Mm-hmm.
Phil (20:25):
So like you could say, I want to be in the black car,
like, but you're a white guy.
Like, it just,
Matt (20:29):
well, no, that don't work.
Your choice is independent orwhite.
Okay.
If you're white or independentor black.
If you're black, okay.
All of them, like the LatinaHispanic group, they just all
have their own car.
But, um, I asked'em, I was like,what's the difference?
And it's like, well, a whitecar, you roll with a white guys,
you do this, you do thatindependent car.
(20:50):
You, you come in by yourself.
You do your time by yourself.
You don't worry about what theygot going on.
I said, well, I'm independent.
I said, I didn't come to prisonif they don't
Phil (20:56):
mess with you.
Matt (20:57):
No.
I said, I come to prison bymyself.
I'm not worried about nothing.
Nobody up here.
I'll come to fix me.
And, uh.
So I was in the independent carand a couple of the guys, they
from the Alabama white car, theytried to push up on me and like,
where's your paperwork?
This, that, and the third.
And I'm just like, man, I'mindependent, bro.
Y'all do whatever y'all want to.
And uh, they, this one kid herewas just trying to be like,
(21:20):
tough guy, i'm trying to usebetter words.
Yeah.
But, uh, he's trying to be atough guy and he's like, well,
you, you can't come out on theyard, you can't do this.
You can't do that till you getyour paperwork.
I was, bro, do whatever I wantto.
This was a
Phil (21:32):
guard or just an inmate?
No inmate.
Matt (21:33):
Inmate.
Because politics in federalprison inmates run it.
Really?
The guard's just protected.
none (21:40):
Okay.
Matt (21:41):
Alright.
So like I say, I got a problemwith a guy that's in the,'cause
I'm independent and I got aproblem with a guy that's in the
white car.
Okay.
We have an independent car boat,independent means we can talk to
house with, eat with, hang outwith, with one yard, whoever you
want to, you can hang out withwhites, blacks Hispanics, native
(22:02):
Americans, you can hang out withwhoever you want to, do whatever
you want to.
There's no, rules against
Phil (22:06):
it.
Okay.
But if you're in a, a morespecific car, you ha you can't,
you have to follow the, theoutside.
You have
Toni (22:11):
to follow their rules that the inmates have set for that
car.
You're in a okay, if you're
Matt (22:14):
in a white car, you can't house with a black guy.
If you're in a black car, youcan't house with a white guy.
But if you're in independentcar, you can house with whoever
even if they're in a car.
none (22:23):
Yeah.
Matt (22:25):
But then if you, if an independent gets white guy gets
put in a cell with a Alabamablack car guy, he has to get
moved.
Or you do one, So pretty muchlike when you get housed, you
just go to your counselor andyou ask, Hey, I'm me an
independent, Hey, you need tostart.
And so they'll find you anindependent person that you can
house with.
so things are a lot different infederal prison than it is in
(22:47):
state prison.
In state prison, everything'sjust run off of gangs and being
dumb.
Wow.
Truthfully federal prison whereI was at was a lot better.
I was uh, I never been to stateprison.
I've heard a lot about it from alot of people that I know have
been through prison.
I got a one of my best friendsright now is in prison and like,
it is bad where he was at.
(23:09):
He just got moved.
But in federal prison, it's whatyou make it wicked like I, like
I said, I did two parentingprograms.
I did the parenting programs.
I started my HVACapprenticeship.
I did a nine month long drugprogram while I was there to get
to stay clean.
Uh, yeah, well not really stayclean, but to learn how to use
(23:29):
coping skills for differentthings in life.
Phil (23:31):
So if you got into a situation where there's an
emotional distress, you didn'tturn to drugs.
Matt (23:36):
And a lot of my stuff was when I was using drugs is to
just be numb to the wholesituation.
Yeah.
And pretty much avoid reality.
Yeah.
But it didn't avoid it justpushed it off and made it worse,
you know?
And, um,
Toni (23:48):
and the drugs were available to him in prison.
Yeah.
You know, so he could've, my, my
Matt (23:52):
first day in prison, a dude walked up to me with a big
pill bottle full of ice, whichis meth.
Another form of meth In pillform?
No.
It was a pill bottle.
He just had a pill bottle.
Kept it in.
I gotcha.
And, uh, he walked up and he waslike, yeah, get on your feet.
I said, I don't want that.
He said, you ain't gotta do it,just sell it.
Get on your feet.
I said, how about you sell it?
Gimme half the money.
(24:12):
You know,
Toni (24:13):
like he could have backpedaled, at any point in
time and fell right back intothat hole.
And he was very determined.
Matt (24:21):
I just, I didn't wanna be the same POS that I was when I
went to prison.
Phil (24:25):
You wanted to make a better life,
Matt (24:27):
right?
I wanted to be better and dobetter.
Yeah.
And um, one thing that I startedtelling myself every day when I
was in prison, his failure isnot an option.
And that is the end of part twoof Tony and Matt's story.
That is pretty much.
Close to the conclusion ofMatt's story personally.
Next week we're gonna talk abouthow Matt and Tony got connected.
(24:51):
Uh, Tony actually startedbecoming his pen pal in prison.
It's a crazy and really amazingstory.
So join us next week and we willget into Tony's story and just
how Tony and Matt got connectedto begin with.
You're gonna love it, and thanksfor being with us this week.
We look forward to being withyou again next week.
God bless you.
Phil Shuler (25:11):
We look forward to being with you again next week
as we share another testimonyabout the power and the goodness
of God to change lives throughSafe House Ministries.
if you are someone listening tothis podcast that loves to hear
these stories of the greatthings that God is doing in
changing people's lives for thebetter, and if you would like to
be a part of that work, pleasereach out to us You can reach us
(25:33):
at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus,Georgia, 31,904.
You can call us at seven oh sixthree two two.
3 7, 7 3, or you can email us atinfo@safehouse-ministries.com.
Microphone (Samson Q2U Mi (25:49):
Thank you so much for being with us
this week for the renew restoreand rejoice podcast of safe
house ministries, we pray thatGod will bless you this week.
And we look forward to havingyou back with us again next week
for a new episode.
And that is the end of part twoof Tony and Matt's story.
That is pretty much.
Close to the conclusion ofMatt's story personally.
Next week we're gonna talk abouthow Matt and Tony got connected.
Uh, Tony actually startedbecoming his pen pal in prison.
It's a crazy and really amazingstory.
(00:21):
So join us next week and we willget into Tony's story and just
how Tony and Matt got connectedto begin with.
You're gonna love it, and thanksfor being with us this week.
We look forward to being withyou again next week.
God bless you.
Phil Shuler (00:36):
HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the
Safe House Ministries podcast,where we share stories of the
power of God to change livesthrough Safe House Ministries.
Safe House Ministries is basedout of Columbus, Georgia, and we
are a ministry that exists tolove and serve people who have
been affected by addiction,homelessness, and incarceration.
I'm your host, Phil Shuler, theDirector of Development for Safe
(00:58):
House Ministries here inColumbus, Georgia.
Safe House serves over 1, 100people each month as they
transition back into ourcommunity.
Safe House provides an abundanceof services including 213 beds
for homeless individuals andfamilies, case management for
obtaining job skills and longterm employment.
Over 300 hot meals every day,free clothing, and so much more.
(01:19):
One of the most incredibleservices that Safe House
provides is our free 9 12 monthintensive outpatient substance
abuse program, which is statelicensed, CARF accredited, and
has no wait list.
Almost 100 percent ofindividuals staying in our
shelters who follow our threephase program become fully
employed within a few months.
And 68 percent of individualswho stay at least one night with
(01:40):
us End up finding work andmoving into their own home.
Thank you for being with ustoday and listening to our
podcast.
We hope you enjoy this week'sepisode.
Matt (01:48):
we got together, we were still in like we were still in
mail outta mailboxes to get thecredit cards and checks and
money orders, stuff like that.
Yeah.
We could wash the checks, washthe money orders and refill'em
out to us.
But I had IDs, a bunch ofdifferent IDs with my picture
book with different folks'information.
So I fill it out to somebodyelse, go in somewhere and cash
(02:09):
it.
It's not on my real name.
none (02:11):
Yeah.
Matt (02:11):
And uh, we ended up the federal, uh, the postmaster
started doing a federalinvestigation on us.
'cause we were still in Mill.
And, uh, they kicked our door ina few times looking for us, but
we didn't stay there.
We at hotels or, yeah, we had anapartment out on south side of
Columbus, like just goingdifferent places.
Never got caught up.
(02:32):
And then, um.
I had someone that was living inmy house, and truthfully, still
to this day, I believe the guyset me up.
Wow.
He knew exactly where we weregoing and how, what vehicle you
were in, what vehicle I was in,and what route we go to get
there.
He knew everything.
Wow.
And the police was waiting onme.
He must
Phil (02:50):
have made a deal.
I guess he, he had some chargespending and he probably,
Matt (02:54):
and so, um, we, we were going and we had her kids with
us.
They were two 5-year-old twinsat the time.
And I made a stupid decisionthat when the police pulled me
over, once they got to the backof the car, it was gonna take
off.
And I did, like when
Phil (03:06):
they walked up to the car, you just hit the gas.
Right.
Matt (03:08):
Right.
And I did.
And man, I ain't even gonna lieto you.
Never had no issue with his car.
I drove this car, I gave it helland, and never had no issue with
this.
One time I turned a corner sharpand the battery fell over into
the motor.
What?
Shut the whole car off.
Wow.
Shut the whole car off.
Vulnerabilities.
Police got me they got me good.
Toni (03:30):
Hindsight's 2020.
But in that moment, that was thebeginning of God saving him.
Wow.
He had, he had to go.
Matt (03:38):
It is been a, it is been a couple weeks.
And I had, I, she was doingdope.
Like we were doing dope.
But there for a while, my, mylevel got up to about 10 grams
of dope a day.
And just my personal use.
Now,
Phil (03:52):
I don't know what that means.
Is that like really high?
Matt (03:55):
That's very, that's enough for probably 10 people, 10 to 12
people.
Wow.
But that was my tolerance levelgot so high from doing it.
Phil (04:03):
So the high wouldn't be as strong or intense.
Right.
And you'd have to take more toget that same level.
So you're just chasing it.
But each time you have to usemore and more and more.
You
Matt (04:12):
know how you form a tolerance to alcohol?
You could drink and drink it.
Like first time you drink acouple shots, you, or even
medication, any kind of, yeah.
Any type of medication.
Like, you build a tolerance toit.
And so after a while you have toincrease the dosage.
And over the time that I've beendoing dope, I had to increase
the dosage and I was probablydoing about 10 grams of dope a
(04:33):
day.
Just my personal use.
That's not including what I didwith everybody else.
none (04:36):
Yeah.
Matt (04:37):
Wow.
You know?
And for a couple weeks beforethat, I just like kept turning
down like, I'm good.
I don't want it, you know.
And I went and seen my mom oneday and uh, she asked me, she
said, you ever gonna get outtathis life?
And I said, probably not.
His mom
Toni (04:50):
had gotten clean at this point.
Really?
Matt (04:52):
Yeah.
My mom, she's been cleaningsince 2008 right now.
Toni (04:55):
Yeah.
Oh.
And today is her 63rd birthday,so happy birthday mama.
Aw.
Phil (05:00):
But
Toni (05:01):
uh.
Phil (05:02):
So how old were you at this time?
Matt (05:03):
This was 2017.
Hell, I don't know.
I lost count.
Yeah.
Toni (05:08):
2017, around
Matt (05:09):
30, maybe
Toni (05:10):
about
Matt (05:10):
33,
Toni (05:11):
I think.
Yeah.
Okay.
Somewhere around in there.
33, 34.
Okay.
So you've been in that, I thinkI just turned, had
Phil (05:15):
been in addiction in the darkness for a long time.
Yes, sir.
Toni (05:18):
14 years.
Matt (05:19):
And, uh, so I just kept turning the dope down.
I went and seen my mom one dayand she asked me, she said, are
you ever gonna get outta thislife?
I said, probably not, mom.
I'll probably die in it.
And uh, she told me, she said, Ihope not.
And I told her one the sametime.
I told her, I said, well, I praynot.
I said, I don't wanna be likethis forever.
But I knew that that was metalking to my mom.
(05:42):
I could be real with her, butwith everybody else, it is just
like, it is a party life.
It's whatever.
It trying to, at that point Iwas trying to make a well,
trying to survive.
Yeah.
It wasn't trying to make aliving.
It was trying to survive.
Yeah.
And being able to survive andthat far in addiction.
And then the stuff that I wasdoing on top of it, I knew I was
going to prison.
(06:02):
I knew it.
And I told my mom, I said, Ipray that I don't die in it.
I said, but I said, I know I'mgoing to prison.
She said, don't say that.
I said, mom, this was
Phil (06:10):
after you had gotten pulled over and like you were
waiting on your court trial or
Matt (06:13):
No, no,
Phil (06:14):
No.
This was prior to that.
Matt (06:16):
Yeah.
Phil (06:16):
Okay.
Matt (06:17):
And I told my mom kind of a
Phil (06:18):
foreshadow, like, you, you were prophesying what was to
come.
Matt (06:21):
And I told my mom, I said, I know I'm going to prison, but
all the stuff I've been doing,they done kicked my door in
three times looking for me.
I said, I know I'm going.
It is just a matter of when theycatch me.
And she said, well, what are yougonna do about it?
And I told her, I said, I'vealways said if I ever go to
prison due to my addiction, I'mdone.
Phil (06:36):
Really like you.
I've always said that.
Had that mental,
Matt (06:39):
I've always said it.
Wow.
Like after I, after I caught mymanufacturing charge and never
went to prison at first itstarted out as a game.
Like a joke.
Yeah.
If I go to prison, I'm done.
The further I dug intoaddiction, it was like, it was
becoming a reality.
Like if I ever go to prison, I'mdone.
I'm gonna better myself.
'cause there's no way I'm gonnago somewhere if you go to
(06:59):
prison, especially for the typeof stuff that I was doing, the
selling drugs or the credit cardstuff.
Either way you're going toprison for a while.
There's no way I'm gonna gosomewhere for a year or two or
more and then come back homeand, and get right back in the
streetlight.
There's no way.
Yeah.
But
Toni (07:15):
like a, a Stanton County Jail is.
At the time was nothing.
It was no big deal, man.
That was vacation for me.
Matt (07:21):
That, but when you're talking about
Toni (07:22):
years.
Years, wow.
Yeah,
Matt (07:25):
that,
Phil (07:26):
wow.
So you get pulled over'cause thebattery falls over into the
engine.
Right.
Matt (07:31):
I take off running in front of the police and the
battery falls over.
The engine car shuts off.
They get us out.
The police sets me in the backof the cop car.
Well, he asked me my name andstuff and uh, he is like,
nevermind, I don't need yourname.
Well, pulled my wallet outta myback pocket, a three or four IDs
in my wallet.
Wow.
My picture with different folkstold finally he is like, what's
your name?
So I tell him, he's like, yeah,you're who we're looking for.
(07:52):
And I say, yeah, I know.
Phil (07:53):
Oh
Matt (07:54):
man.
And um, he said, why didn't yourun?
And I said, truthfully don'tknow.
It's just the good thought I hadin my head at the moment.
He said, well, maybe not goodthought, but you thought it was
a good thought.
He thought it was.
That's a good thought I had.
And that's what I told him.
I said, just a good thought Ihad in my head.
And he said, well, it wasn't toogood for you, but luckily you
stopped.
And I told him, I said, do me afavor.
(08:15):
He said, what's that?
I said, take the jail.
I'm sleepy.
And he said, you going?
And he sent me in the back ofthe police car.
And uh, he asked me, he said, isthere anything else in the car
that I need to know about?
I told him no, I had an ounce ofdope and a gun under the center
console, which luckily theydidn't find it'cause I'd still
be in prison.
Phil (08:31):
Wow.
Matt (08:32):
Yeah,
Phil (08:33):
they just not searched the car or they just, uh, they
Matt (08:35):
searched the car, but it was a hidden compartment under
my center console that mostfolks don't know how to get to
it.
Phil (08:41):
So you kind of special made that, I guess.
Yeah.
Like you just created ityourself.
Matt (08:46):
Just pulled some stuff out and did this and did that, you
know?
Yeah.
But, um,
Toni (08:51):
tweakers are really good at tweaking things.
Ah.
So
Matt (08:55):
in that moment we had a bunch of credit cards on us
between, the girl was with metoo.
Her kids, like we both gotbusted.
Uh, we had a bunch of creditcards.
I had the IDs on me.
She had had a floorboard full ofmail where we've been checking
mailboxes all day.
And, uh, the police, he comesback to the car and he says, you
know, you're going away for along time.
I said, yeah, I need it.
(09:16):
And he said just pray about it.
He said something to come.
Phil (09:19):
He told you to pray about
Matt (09:20):
it?
Yeah, he did.
Phil (09:21):
Interesting.
Matt (09:22):
And, um, what's really interesting now is that I'm
friends with a lot of policeofficers.
Uh, I worked for Griffin andGriffin's Towing.
Uh, for a while and we had thatcontract with the city and a lot
of the officers are like,there's no way you're the same
person.
Toni (09:37):
They just, they can't like to see him shake the police hand
now and Wow them be proud to seehim.
Wow.
Like,
Matt (09:45):
it's, it's crazy.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
Phil (09:48):
Wow.
That's a great turn of events,
Matt (09:50):
And, um, my, when I was in county jail,
Phil (09:54):
so he took you to county jail?
Yeah.
And you were there for,
Matt (09:57):
I got locked up January 5th, 2017.
And I came home October 9th,2020.
Phil (10:03):
Were you, did you stay in county jail or did you, okay.
Matt (10:05):
Uh, I stayed in county jail for I think about 11
months.
And then I went to FederalHolden'cause the US Marshals
picked my case up.
none (10:13):
Yeah.
Toni (10:14):
But this time in county jail is actually when he came in
contact with Neil.
Oh.
So that's
Phil (10:20):
where Safe House Ministries in the early days,
Neil, when he was chaplain atthe, at the jail.
Right.
That's, you met him.
He
Matt (10:26):
was Chap and, um, I did the Fatherhood program while
being in the county jail.
And, uh, so
Phil (10:32):
tell me how that started.
Like, so you, you're in thereand I guess the chaplain Neil is
just walking around getting toknow people.
Matt (10:39):
He will come around every now and then and see everybody
and, uh, he came around.
He asked one day in the dorm, hewas like, who in here has kids?
I raised my hand.
He was like, all right, youguys, come here.
Lemme talk to y'all.
So he came over there and hetold us, he said, look, I got a
program called the FatherhoodProgram.
And it was like, it's justlearning how to be a better
father.
And I told him, I said, chap, Iain't seen my kids in a long
(11:01):
time.
He said, well, this program'sfor you.
He said, sign up for it.
And uh, so I signed up for itand uh, I got picked and I
completed the program, did allthe book work and stuff.
Phil (11:11):
And, uh,
Matt (11:12):
my ex-wife at the time still wouldn't let me see my
kids.
Phil (11:14):
So had by that point, like when you're connected with Neil,
you got into the father program.
Had you, had you made thedefinitive decision that you
were gonna make a better life orwere you just exploring why not
try this kind thing?
Matt (11:27):
Oh no.
When I went inside the jail andthey booked me in and the lady
asked me, she says, sir, youwant your bond amount?
I said, I don't need it.
She said, why?
I said, I'm going to sleep.
And she said, what do you mean?
I said, I'm going up here.
I'm going to sleep and I'm gonnaget my life Right.
Phil (11:40):
Wow.
So that was the, I knew I goingthe straw that broke everything
and you're like, I can't do thisanymore.
Matt (11:45):
Yeah.
I knew I was going to prison andeven though I was mad about it,
I was happy.
because he knew that that was, Iwas mad that I got caught.
Phil (11:50):
So you wanted to get out.
Toni (11:52):
He knew that that was his only way.
That was my
Matt (11:54):
only escape.
Phil (11:55):
Yeah.
Matt (11:56):
Because only prison enough streets man is a casket or a
prison sentence.
And the only one that's gonnahelp you is the prison sentence
if you use it.
Right.
Phil (12:03):
Happen.
And you had, you were at thatplace for, you're like, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna take thisopportunity.
Which, which was disguised assome hardship and punishment,
but you're like, I'm gonna turnthings around.
Matt (12:12):
Exactly.
I mean, I didn't look at it asit was punishment.
I look at it as a savior for ourculture.
Just about, I mean, I've alwayssaid prison.
Prison saved me.
I
Phil (12:19):
love that perspective.
One thing that I've, I don'tknow, it is kind of weird to me,
is because the day that me andmy mom was having that
conversation and uh, I told her,I said, I pray that I don't die
in, in this lifestyle.
none (12:31):
Yeah.
Matt (12:32):
I stayed at her house that night and I sat out on the front
porch to smoke cigarette and Ijust, I don't know.
For some reason I felt like Ineeded to talk to God, so I
asked God to give me a way out.
Yeah.
It wasn't even a week later thatI was getting locked up.
Phil (12:45):
Wow.
Matt (12:46):
I've been running from the police ever since like 2006,
five and six when I starteddoing this.
Wow.
I've been running from thepolice.
I was pretty good at it.
Yeah.
Toni (12:55):
And here you have this vehicle that there were no
issues with, I've never had noissues, nothing wrong with, and
all of a sudden the batteryfalls out.
Engine, like I just turned realengine,
Matt (13:05):
To the left and the battery literally flipped over
into the engine and shut it alldown.
none (13:10):
Wow.
Matt (13:11):
I never had an issue with his car, never had an issue with
the battery rocking around ornothing.
He got
Toni (13:16):
what he asked for.
Love.
That was his way.
Love it.
I love it when
Phil (13:18):
God steps in and, you know, and
Toni (13:20):
it was so obvious.
Phil (13:21):
And he, and this was your chance.
And Neil, Neil was there.
God had Neil there.
And the opportunity for theFatherhood program, we
Toni (13:28):
actually still have his certificate of completion.
Right.
Wow.
And from that,
Phil (13:32):
I've heard a lot of good things about that program.
Matt (13:35):
It was actually really good.
And if you use it, not don't useit to learn how to be a dad, use
it to learn how to be a personand then you can become a dad.
Yeah.
And um, I did the fatherhoodprogram, completed it, graduated
and uh, then Chv, he was like,he asked me one day, he said,
(13:55):
you got your GEDI said, no, sir.
He said, sign up for theclasses.
after I completed my GED.
I think it was like two monthslater the US government picked
up my case and I went to federalHolden and I got up there and,
and the cellmate that I had, he,uh, he's real big into God.
Like he was on a 2-year-oldcase.
He done had turned his lifearound.
(14:16):
He was a youth pastor andeverything.
Wow.
And he got locked up.
Uh, he's right now he's in, uh,he's in a federal prison.
He got a 20 year sentence.
Wow.
You know, so he
Phil (14:27):
had changed his life and got on a better path, but he
still had to face theconsequences of
Matt (14:33):
all because of some he said, she said, but, um, he's
okay with it.
Like, I used to email with himback and forth and stuff, and
then life got so chaotic andhectic and just moving so fast.
Yeah.
I didn't message him for a whileand, uh, he got mad and just
removed me from his, uh, hisemail list in prison.
But,
Phil (14:53):
so you took actions to turn things around.
So you went through theFatherhood program with Neil in
the early days of Safe HouseMinistries.
Basically you got your GEDthousand.
What was, what was after that?
Matt (15:05):
Oh, when I got a federal holding my cellmate we call him
country.
He was into God real big andhe's, he got me into reading the
Bible something and likelearning different things that I
could do, which at the time Istill didn't know how to, uh,
process the whole God situation.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And, uh,
Phil (15:24):
but you were, you were familiar with the idea of God,
you did not have a personalrelationship with Jesus at that
point, right.
Matt (15:30):
And so our research and creating vulnerabilities in
Williams started reading Bibles.
I could ask him questions andstuff, you know, about different
things.
And, uh, I ended up going tocourt and get sentenced, and
then he went to court and gotsentenced the following week.
And so we split and wentdifferent ways when we went to
prison.
Toni (15:47):
But Matthew also got very lucky when it came to his
sentencing too.
Like I
Matt (15:51):
did.
Wow.
Um, with as much money as theywere trying to charge me with, I
could have got 196 months, whichis 15 years.
none (15:58):
Wow.
Matt (16:00):
I actually, me and my lawyer went and talked with the
prosecutor and the judge, and Itold'em like, if you'll gimme a
list of everything, I'llhighlight everything that I did.
And so they did.
I highlighted everything that II ain't gonna lie.
I highlighted what I knew theyhad me on camera doing,
Toni (16:18):
because technically they could only convict him of what
they had him on camera proof ofdoing.
Yeah.
Right.
Anything that was online or useof credit cards online over the
phone, they couldn't technicallyget him for it.
Which me, truthfully,
Matt (16:33):
I don't see how they got a, a$500,000 thing.
Like they had a lot of stuff inthere that I know me, nor the
girl that I was with, none of usdid that.
It was probably a book thisthick Wow.
Of different charges and stuff.
And I know there's no way thatwe did all of that and stuff.
But I highlighted what I did,what I had a part of, and, um, I
(16:56):
was just truthful with the judgeand the prosecutor and I was
like, look, I did all this.
And so there's like, this caseis complicated.
You got two co-defendants.
I was like two.
Who's the second one?
Well, come to find out the girlthat I was with while I was
locked up for five months beforeher and her baby's dad had got
into doing some of, some of thestuff too.
none (17:19):
Wow.
Matt (17:20):
And they had already started an investigation on
them.
So we actually got our casesplit up.
It was me and her, and then itwas her and him.
Phil (17:29):
It is complicated.
Matt (17:30):
It is.
It was real complicated.
And the judge was like, look,your case is complicated.
He was like,
Toni (17:35):
but he was the only man.
He was only one forthcomingwith, Hey, I, I'll own up to
this, you know, I'm gonna tellyou what I had a part of,
Phil (17:42):
they wouldn't do that though.
Matt (17:43):
I don't know if they did or they didn't really.
Phil (17:45):
Yeah.
Matt (17:45):
That's their business to talk about.
It's not mine.
Yeah.
Uh, but what I did was I wastruthful with what I'd done,
what I had a part in.
I wasn't telling'em nothingabout neither one of my
co-defendants.
Like if you wanna know somethingabout them, you ask them.
But the judge was like, thiscase is complicated.
He was like, so we gave us 30,45 minutes and we'll come back.
(18:05):
And when I came back my lawyerwas like, they're talking about
196 months.
He was like, but we got it down.
He was like, what you did showedcharacter good faith.
Mm-hmm.
And good faith.
And he was like, so they'reoffering you 42 months.
Cool.
Lemme sign that.
I didn't argue with'em.
Didn't fuss about it.
Nothing.
(18:26):
Lemme sign it.
Wow.
Which I was gonna sign the 196months.
Phil (18:30):
So that's like three and a half years.
Three and a half years
Matt (18:32):
in federal prison.
Well, they got me a 42 monthprison sentence, six month
halfway house.
Five years, uh, supervisedprobation.
Wow.
I got to prison.
I did two more fatherhoodprograms.
Phil (18:44):
Where you went to the federal prison,
Matt (18:45):
right?
It was, uh, it wasn'tfatherhood, it was parenting
programs.
I did two of them.
Yeah.
So
Phil (18:50):
you stayed on that path of I need to, to get, make a better
life growing learning, tryingto, yeah.
Matt (18:55):
I did.
Was it, was
Phil (18:56):
that a hard environment?
Matt (18:57):
It's only hard if you make it hard, man.
Phil (18:59):
You just kind of stay to yourself.
And like federal
Matt (19:01):
prison is a lot different than state, prison.
You can go in and get killed forlooking the wrong way.
none (19:06):
Wow.
Matt (19:07):
And federal prison, they have politics that protect the
inmates.
Like it is real different.
You don't go in there, you don'trun with gang.
Not the one I was at anyways.
When you go to federal prison,you get in a car if you want to,
and a car is like, you got aAlabama car, you got a Georgia
(19:27):
car, you got whatever stateyou're from is a car.
none (19:30):
Okay.
Matt (19:31):
But there's three different cars.
You got a white car, a blackcar, and an independent car.
Phil (19:35):
These are figurative cars.
Toni? (19:37):
Yes.
Yes.
So this is how they kind ofsegregate everybody.
Okay.
Matt (19:41):
Instead of calling into the gang gets a car.
Okay.
Well, and the bad part about itis.
When you get to r and d at yourprison, which, so you, and you
said
Phil (19:51):
a white car, like if you're a white person, right?
Like say everybody, it's kind ofsegregated by, so everybody from
Georgia Demographicsessentially, right?
Toni (19:59):
Yeah.
And the, the prisons do this andset it up this way to, it's
safer, minimize,
Matt (20:05):
it is safer the gangs and stuff for people because okay,
like I said, you got a Alabamacar, a Alabama white car,
Alabama black car, and anAlabama independent car.
When you, when you get to r andd, they ask you, RD is receiving
a discharge community.
All, when you get to RD they askyou, what car are you going in?
Phil (20:23):
You choose.
Matt (20:24):
Mm-hmm.
Phil (20:25):
So like you could say, I want to be in the black car,
like, but you're a white guy.
Like, it just,
Matt (20:29):
well, no, that don't work.
Your choice is independent orwhite.
Okay.
If you're white or independentor black.
If you're black, okay.
All of them, like the LatinaHispanic group, they just all
have their own car.
But, um, I asked'em, I was like,what's the difference?
And it's like, well, a whitecar, you roll with a white guys,
you do this, you do thatindependent car.
(20:50):
You, you come in by yourself.
You do your time by yourself.
You don't worry about what theygot going on.
I said, well, I'm independent.
I said, I didn't come to prisonif they don't
Phil (20:56):
mess with you.
Matt (20:57):
No.
I said, I come to prison bymyself.
I'm not worried about nothing.
Nobody up here.
I'll come to fix me.
And, uh.
So I was in the independent carand a couple of the guys, they
from the Alabama white car, theytried to push up on me and like,
where's your paperwork?
This, that, and the third.
And I'm just like, man, I'mindependent, bro.
Y'all do whatever y'all want to.
And uh, they, this one kid herewas just trying to be like,
(21:20):
tough guy, i'm trying to usebetter words.
Yeah.
But, uh, he's trying to be atough guy and he's like, well,
you, you can't come out on theyard, you can't do this.
You can't do that till you getyour paperwork.
I was, bro, do whatever I wantto.
This was a
Phil (21:32):
guard or just an inmate?
No inmate.
Matt (21:33):
Inmate.
Because politics in federalprison inmates run it.
Really?
The guard's just protected.
none (21:40):
Okay.
Matt (21:41):
Alright.
So like I say, I got a problemwith a guy that's in the,'cause
I'm independent and I got aproblem with a guy that's in the
white car.
Okay.
We have an independent car boat,independent means we can talk to
house with, eat with, hang outwith, with one yard, whoever you
want to, you can hang out withwhites, blacks Hispanics, native
(22:02):
Americans, you can hang out withwhoever you want to, do whatever
you want to.
There's no, rules against
Phil (22:06):
it.
Okay.
But if you're in a, a morespecific car, you ha you can't,
you have to follow the, theoutside.
You have
Toni (22:11):
to follow their rules that the inmates have set for that
car.
You're in a okay, if you're
Matt (22:14):
in a white car, you can't house with a black guy.
If you're in a black car, youcan't house with a white guy.
But if you're in independentcar, you can house with whoever
even if they're in a car.
none (22:23):
Yeah.
Matt (22:25):
But then if you, if an independent gets white guy gets
put in a cell with a Alabamablack car guy, he has to get
moved.
Or you do one, So pretty muchlike when you get housed, you
just go to your counselor andyou ask, Hey, I'm me an
independent, Hey, you need tostart.
And so they'll find you anindependent person that you can
house with.
so things are a lot different infederal prison than it is in
(22:47):
state prison.
In state prison, everything'sjust run off of gangs and being
dumb.
Wow.
Truthfully federal prison whereI was at was a lot better.
I was uh, I never been to stateprison.
I've heard a lot about it from alot of people that I know have
been through prison.
I got a one of my best friendsright now is in prison and like,
it is bad where he was at.
(23:09):
He just got moved.
But in federal prison, it's whatyou make it wicked like I, like
I said, I did two parentingprograms.
I did the parenting programs.
I started my HVACapprenticeship.
I did a nine month long drugprogram while I was there to get
to stay clean.
Uh, yeah, well not really stayclean, but to learn how to use
(23:29):
coping skills for differentthings in life.
Phil (23:31):
So if you got into a situation where there's an
emotional distress, you didn'tturn to drugs.
Matt (23:36):
And a lot of my stuff was when I was using drugs is to
just be numb to the wholesituation.
Yeah.
And pretty much avoid reality.
Yeah.
But it didn't avoid it justpushed it off and made it worse,
you know?
And, um,
Toni (23:48):
and the drugs were available to him in prison.
Yeah.
You know, so he could've, my, my
Matt (23:52):
first day in prison, a dude walked up to me with a big
pill bottle full of ice, whichis meth.
Another form of meth In pillform?
No.
It was a pill bottle.
He just had a pill bottle.
Kept it in.
I gotcha.
And, uh, he walked up and he waslike, yeah, get on your feet.
I said, I don't want that.
He said, you ain't gotta do it,just sell it.
Get on your feet.
I said, how about you sell it?
Gimme half the money.
(24:12):
You know,
Toni (24:13):
like he could have backpedaled, at any point in
time and fell right back intothat hole.
And he was very determined.
Matt (24:21):
I just, I didn't wanna be the same POS that I was when I
went to prison.
Phil (24:25):
You wanted to make a better life,
Matt (24:27):
right?
I wanted to be better and dobetter.
Yeah.
And um, one thing that I startedtelling myself every day when I
was in prison, his failure isnot an option.
And that is the end of part twoof Tony and Matt's story.
That is pretty much.
Close to the conclusion ofMatt's story personally.
Next week we're gonna talk abouthow Matt and Tony got connected.
(24:51):
Uh, Tony actually startedbecoming his pen pal in prison.
It's a crazy and really amazingstory.
So join us next week and we willget into Tony's story and just
how Tony and Matt got connectedto begin with.
You're gonna love it, and thanksfor being with us this week.
We look forward to being withyou again next week.
God bless you.
Phil Shuler (25:11):
We look forward to being with you again next week
as we share another testimonyabout the power and the goodness
of God to change lives throughSafe House Ministries.
if you are someone listening tothis podcast that loves to hear
these stories of the greatthings that God is doing in
changing people's lives for thebetter, and if you would like to
be a part of that work, pleasereach out to us You can reach us
(25:33):
at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus,Georgia, 31,904.
You can call us at seven oh sixthree two two.
3 7, 7 3, or you can email us atinfo@safehouse-ministries.com.
Microphone (Samson Q2U Mi (25:49):
Thank you so much for being with us
this week for the renew restoreand rejoice podcast of safe
house ministries, we pray thatGod will bless you this week.
And we look forward to havingyou back with us again next week
for a new episode.
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