I love this phrase that Matt uses as he talks about when things turned around for his own life, and the only way things till turn around for the better for any of us. Better choices means a better life, and there are no better choices any of us could ever make than the choices that align with God's truth. This is what led Matt and Toni both out of the darkness, and what has given them a wonderful marriage and blessed life today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Phil Shuler (00:00):
HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the
(00:03):
Safe House Ministries podcast,where we share stories of the
power of God to change livesthrough Safe House Ministries.
Safe House Ministries is basedout of Columbus, Georgia, and we
are a ministry that exists tolove and serve people who have
been affected by addiction,homelessness, and incarceration.
I'm your host, Phil Shuler, theDirector of Development for Safe
House Ministries here inColumbus, Georgia.
(00:24):
Safe House serves over 1, 100people each month as they
transition back into ourcommunity.
Safe House provides an abundanceof services including 213 beds
for homeless individuals andfamilies, case management for
obtaining job skills and longterm employment.
Over 300 hot meals every day,free clothing, and so much more.
One of the most incredibleservices that Safe House
(00:45):
provides is our free 9 12 monthintensive outpatient substance
abuse program, which is statelicensed, CARF accredited, and
has no wait list.
Almost 100 percent ofindividuals staying in our
shelters who follow our threephase program become fully
employed within a few months.
And 68 percent of individualswho stay at least one night with
us End up finding work andmoving into their own home.
(01:07):
Thank you for being with ustoday and listening to our
podcast.
We hope you enjoy this week'sepisode.
Toni (01:12):
Yeah.
I didn't get introduced to otherdrugs until I had moved to
Columbus.
I was a little bit older.
I was in my early twenties.
Phil (01:21):
Was your dad in Columbus?
Um, is that Yeah,
Toni (01:23):
because my dad was a tattoo artist.
Phil (01:25):
Wow.
So, so he had left New York?
Yeah.
Toni (01:28):
My dad, well my dad left New York.
He lived in New Jersey.
He first, we lived in NorthCarolina.
Yeah.
Anywhere where there's a majormilitary base.
none (01:37):
Okay.
Toni (01:37):
That's where my dad's business was, because he's a
tattoo artist, so, yeah, thatmakes sense.
He wound up moving here.
He worked on Victory Drive withFalcon, who is a very well-known
tattoo artist.
Like they ran Columbus in thelate eighties, early nineties.
So we moved here because of thebusiness from Fort Benning.
A lot of rangers, you know, mydad had a lot of friends here.
(02:00):
And I, it was my early twentieswith my first ex-husband that
it, it's always because ofsomebody of the opposite sex,
you know?
It was like, okay, let's startdoing drugs.
Basically cocaine was at aparty, cocaine was at a party.
It's your own person.
You make your own choice.
Yeah, you're right.
But I'm saying it's always likesomeone involving the
Phil (02:21):
environments, right?
You put yourself in a situationwhere there's an opportunity,
right.
Or a temptation, and you're, andyou just, especially me.
Toni (02:28):
cause at that time, I had a bad boy magnet stuck to my
forehead.
So it was like the worst youwere, the more attracted to you.
I am.
Seriously.
And I think that's because Ithought I was so hardcore and
gangster at the time when I was16, 17, 18 years old, you know?
Yeah.
It started out innocently,cocaine at parties, pills here
(02:52):
and there.
Mm-hmm.
And then when I was with mysecond ex-husband, which is the
23 year unhealthy toxicrelationship that I ran from
they had learned how to cookcrystal meth.
And you know, it was like, oh,we can make all this easy money.
Tony's always about the easymoney, but then we were cooking
(03:13):
enough just to support ourhabit, you know?
And I had already had my son atthe time he was about two and
like Matthew, it was like daysand days and days on end.
Hallucinating Wow.
Hearing things.
Fortunately for me I never gotto the point where I was
homeless.
I never got to the point where Ilanded myself in prison.
Phil (03:35):
You were just with this fella, this second husband for a
long time in a toxic wasaddiction of it.
You know,
Toni (03:42):
we just, we liked getting high and um, I never wound up
losing my kids or anything likethat, but the relationship had
become so bad and so abusivebecause of the drugs,
Phil (03:56):
physical, mental, all of
Toni (03:57):
it.
Phil (03:58):
Yeah,
Toni (03:58):
all of it, for sure.
And, um, I remember just prayingto God like, get me outta here.
Get me outta here.
Something has got to change.
Something's gotta give.
And it was probably about.
Two, three months later, um, May13th, 2005, I found out I was
pregnant with my daughter and Istopped cold Turkey.
Phil (04:20):
You just quit the drugs?
Yeah.
Toni (04:22):
I never I never went to a 12 step program.
I never went to a meeting.
In that moment I had my prioritywas protect my daughter.
Just mothers protect the child.
Yeah.
Love.
I always say that I was born tobe a mom.
I was definitely born to be amother.
My, my kids were always enough.
Like they say, you can't getclean for other people.
(04:44):
You have to wanna do ityourself.
And for me it was always mykids.
You know?
So I got pregnant, stopped coldTurkey and that was it.
We left and went to Florida.
We moved to Florida.
Now he was still using Yeah, hewas still using at the time.
So, and
Phil (04:58):
he was the toxic, he was the am abuser of the Yeah.
Toni (05:00):
And we actually together moved to Florida and we lived in
Florida and.
From my understanding he gotclean when we were in Florida,
you know, for a long time.
A very long time.
But there had already been somuch damage done in the
relationship.
So did, did he stop being
Phil (05:17):
as abusive when he got clean?
Um,
Toni (05:18):
no.
We were just very at that's whatI'm saying.
At that point, there was, hadbeen so much damage done, we
were just extremely unhealthytogether.
I'm not gonna knock him in, likehe's a decent guy, but we
weren't good together.
Toni? (05:32):
Yeah, it
Toni (05:32):
was very, very toxic.
Very, very unhealthy.
Um, I always justified stayingwith my kids, needed their mom
and dad.
When talking to my kids as theywere older after I had left, it
was, I did more damage to themby staying because of the stuff
that they saw growing up or thethings that they heard or what
(05:52):
we put them through than I wouldhave left had they been younger
and not had those memories atthe end of the relationship, it
was just 2019 I had went througha complete transformation.
Um, I had had gastric bypasssurgery.
I was, at the time when I hadthe surgery, 436 pounds.
none (06:11):
Wow.
Toni (06:12):
Uh, yeah.
And in a two year time span, Igot down to like one 70.
So it was like, like I wentthrough a lot mentally and
emotionally and I can't
Phil (06:21):
even imagine that.
Yeah.
That
Toni (06:23):
was crazy.
My mom used to always tell me,like, I could tell you to leave
all day, but at the end of theday, you're not gonna leave
until you, you've had enough.
You know?
And I literally remember wakingup one morning in August and
just being like, I can't do thisanymore.
Like, I'm almost 40 years old.
I don't wanna be 60 years old.
And my entire life has passed meby, you know, so at 40 years
(06:46):
old, I took my 16 and my14-year-old daughter, and I
moved back in with my parentsand that was a.
And where
Phil (06:53):
were they living?
Toni (06:54):
In Florida.
Okay.
Yeah.
We moved into their threebedroom little townhouse.
Wow.
There was six of us living inthe house, you know, so that was
a very humbling experience, youknow?
And then during this time I had,I had this guy, pretty much
promising me the world fromprison.
And it's like, and it sounded
Phil (07:11):
so good.
Toni (07:12):
Yeah, it sounds really good.
And my mom was like, I don'tknow, Tony Ann, I don't know
what you're doing.
You're like, he's
Phil (07:17):
gonna get me out of this mess.
Right.
It's gonna, he's yeah.
Toni (07:20):
Right.
You know?
So, like I said, we startedtalking in March of 2019, and in
July, I got in contact with hismom and I was like, Hey, let's
go see Matthew
Phil (07:30):
to visit him.
Toni (07:31):
Yeah.
She hadn't seen him How long hadit been?
Two years.
none (07:34):
Yeah.
Toni (07:35):
Yeah.
So was
Phil (07:36):
this when you brought his son as well?
No.
So
Toni (07:39):
me and her went first by ourselves in July.
Yeah.
And after the first visit I wasall in, I was completely smitten
with He had you hooked?
Yeah, he had me hooked.
And did you
Phil (07:50):
know that Matt, did you know you had her hooked or was
that the intention, or you, isthis her, her crazy stalk stalk
that just latched on?
I
Matt (07:58):
think that's what it was.
No.
Like over the few months that wehave been talking and stuff,
like, uh, we had gotten seriousabout doing things and yeah.
Truthfully, I'm just like.
Get out, whatever.
Going about my business.
Over the time that I wasincarcerated I fell in love with
her.
none (08:15):
Yeah,
Toni (08:15):
it was great.
I think because
Phil (08:18):
she won you over.
Toni? (08:19):
Yeah.
Toni (08:19):
But I think it was great because we were only able to
call and email and text.
There was no physical intimacy.
That's a, you know, that
Phil (08:28):
messes so many people up.
It does.
It does.
It
Toni (08:30):
does.
But we didn't have thatopportunity, so we really got to
know each other and who we were,where we were, what we wanted
outta life.
Yeah.
So I think that, again, himbeing in prison and that lack of
physical connection gave us theopportunity to really like,
(08:51):
okay, where do we want it?
Where do we want this to go?
What are Yeah.
You're able to start
Phil (08:55):
expectations in a healthier place.
Toni (08:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because during that time, youknow, my life was falling apart.
He was trying to rebuild his,and it's like he was my best
friend.
He was my best friend.
I could, and you know, it'sweird because
Phil (09:12):
you were just, you were shearing your heart that deep
things in your heart.
Toni (09:15):
I, I can honestly say with 100% honesty that I have told
Matthew every single dark, dirtysecret that there is to know
about me because.
He made me wanna do better.
none (09:29):
Yeah.
Toni (09:29):
You know, I didn't want there to be any secrets.
Nothing, no holds barred.
Uh, he made me wanna be, youcan't unlock new doors with old
keys.
Yeah.
There's a lot of
Phil (09:40):
truth in this saying who you share your heart with is who
you fall in love with.
Yeah.
Toni (09:44):
And he was my best friend at the time, and I think that
friendship was the bestfoundation for what we have now.
Phil (09:51):
Yeah.
And, and it sounds like Matt wastruthful and a just a he was
true and on the right path and,and a good person that you could
share your heart with.
'cause he would, he would helpyou to get to a better place.
Toni (10:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Phil (10:02):
Unlike Old s Samson, he shared his heart with Delilah
and, uh Right.
Didn't quite turn out, turnedout too good for him.
Not so good for him.
But
Toni (10:08):
yeah, and it was just, you know, so I came with his mom in
July and I visited him and thenin August I jumped on a plane
and flew back to Memphis tovisit him.
And then in November, hisex-wife allowed me and his
mother to bring his son.
Wow.
Phil (10:24):
So what was that like, Matt, like to see your son after
so long?
had you communicated with him orwas it like a shock?
Total surprise.
I got the talk
Matt (10:33):
with them a little bit.
they had came up to see me once,my mom, my ex-wife, and my two
boys had came to see me when Ifirst got to prison.
My ceiling got caught withtoday.
Phil (10:43):
Well, they
Matt (10:44):
was taking us both to the shoe and put us both on
restriction, like from ourphone, our visits, and our
commissary The thing is, he tookthe charge, it was his, I
shouldn't have got in no trouble
none (10:54):
well, they
Matt (10:54):
never took my restriction for my visitation off.
Toni? (10:57):
And so
Matt (10:57):
they drove all the way from Phoenix City to Memphis,
Tennessee and couldn't see me.
Toni? (11:02):
So I had
Matt (11:03):
been in communication with 'em some, and uh, I didn't know
she was bringing them to see methough, until they were already
in Memphis.
I had talked to her the nightbefore and she was like, Hey,
I'm up here, uh, I'm gonna comesee you tomorrow.
And I'm like, okay.
And I heard my mom's voice inthe background.
I said, who's with you?
And she was like, your mom.
And I was like, okay, who is shetalking to if you're on the
phone?
And she's like, you'll see.
He's so nosy.
Toni (11:24):
She was like, you cannot surprise him with nothing.
Matt (11:26):
She was like, you'll see.
So I'm like, no, you tell me.
'cause I don't like surpriseslike that, especially in the
place where I'm at.
You have to tell me.
And so she told me that she wasbringing my son Taylor to see
me.
And uh,
Toni (11:38):
Matthew always says that that's the moment when he knew
Yeah.
That, that you and him weregonna, she boom, me and him were
gonna
Matt (11:44):
be, if she would go outta her way to bring my mom and my
son to see me, I knew that she,you'd be a fool not to, to
Phil (11:50):
not to capitalize on that right girl.
Matt (11:53):
But I mean, it is been great since I've been outta
prison.
Like we've had Nicholas, I'vegot my CDLs I got my regular
license after 17 years, and thenI've got my CDLs.
I was on five years.
Did y'all
Phil (12:06):
get married pretty quick right after?
Yeah.
Toni (12:08):
So he came home October of 2020 by the I was still living
in Florida at the time.
By the end of 2020, me and mykids packed up a U-Haul and
moved up here by the end of2020, I mean the end of October,
end of
Matt (12:23):
October.
By the end of the month, he gotout.
I got out October the ninth,October 30th, she's moving in.
Wow.
Yeah.
Toni (12:29):
And now were
Phil (12:29):
you, were you married or?
I was.
So you got divorced by thatpoint or?
Oh yeah.
Toni (12:34):
My divorce was finalized October 14th, 2020.
October 30th, 2020, me and mykids packed a U-Haul and moved
up here.
Wow.
Because Matthew couldn't get hisprobation transferred.
And I, I was, yeah.
I was, I couldn't stand beingaway
Matt (12:48):
from him anymore.
Probation.
none (12:49):
Yeah.
Matt (12:50):
And so when she moved up, uh, we stayed at my mom's and I
knew, like, I'm sleeping on thefloor in my mom's room.
My mom works third shift at agas station, but I'm sleeping on
the floor in my mom's roombecause their, their house is
small.
She's sleeping on the floorright next to me.
Toni (13:07):
We
Matt (13:07):
struggled.
I knew that she, she was, westruggled.
She was there with me.
You know what I'm saying?
She's not there for anything Igot.
'cause I didn't have nothing.
Yeah.
You know?
But then
Toni (13:15):
we moved up to an air mattress, we upgraded,
Matt (13:18):
and um, by February the first of 2021, we moved into our
own place.
Wow.
April.
Toni (13:24):
No.
So Fe Valentine's Day.
So this is how our 2021 went.
We moved into the place February1st, February 14th.
Matthew proposed April 13th.
We found out we were pregnantwith Nicholas.
May, 2021.
We got married.
And it was funny when we gotmarried, because we got married
(13:46):
the same day, my oldest son wasgraduating from high school in
Florida.
So we had the notary come to ourhouse, we signed the marriage
license in our dining room, andI gave him a kiss goodbye.
He went back to bed and I jumpedin the car and drove down to
Florida for my son's graduation.
Wow.
Yeah.
And then, so, and then we hadNicholas December 1st, 2021.
Matt (14:11):
Wow.
And then December 7th, 2022, Igot released 10, two years and
10 months early from federalprobation.
Toni (14:19):
Wow.
Yeah.
So he had five years.
He only had to serve two and ahalf as
Phil (14:22):
they, they saw that you were doing so well.
Yeah.
Matt (14:25):
Like my, uh, federal probation officer actually went
and he wrote a recommendationfor me to get released from
federal probation and took it tothe judge himself.
Wow.
Like hand delivered it to thejudge.
And we
Toni (14:38):
still to this day, keep in communication with him.
He calls and asks aboutNicholas, and he's agreed to do
Matthew's character letter whenhe files for his Pardon.
Phil (14:48):
That's awesome.
You know,
Toni (14:49):
but just to see the things that he's accomplished on his
own and the things that we'veaccomplished together, like.
It's nothing short of God.
That's
Phil (14:59):
amazing.
Toni (14:59):
It's nothing short of God.
Phil (15:01):
So now you guys are doing well, stable.
You both are working.
Toni (15:06):
Yeah.
Good
Phil (15:06):
jobs.
What, how so what is the kidsituation Who's all at the house
with you guys?
Just Nicholas.
Toni (15:13):
Just Nicholas now.
Okay.
Up until recently his youngestson, Taylor and his girlfriend
lived with us.
And my son Dominic lives inTennessee.
He's at Middle Tennessee StateUniversity.
Okay.
And my daughter Raylin, um, shemoved out on her own the end of
last year and she just gotengaged.
She'll be getting married in2026.
none (15:35):
Wow.
And
Toni (15:35):
his oldest son, Anthony, lives on his own and does his
own thing, so.
Okay.
Phil (15:40):
Yeah.
You guys have pretty goodrelationships with everybody,
not Anthony.
Toni (15:45):
Not Anthony, unfortunately with his oldest son.
I wish.
But
Phil (15:48):
he kind of.
Because of the years of whathappened and
Matt (15:52):
I believe that, I also think he holds a grudge against
me for being the type of dad Iam.
With Nicholas?
Toni (15:57):
Yeah, because how old is Nicholas?
I think he resents that.
Think Nicholas will be four.
December 1st.
Phil (16:02):
Okay.
So you're, you're a good dad andhe is resentful that you weren't
that for him.
Matt (16:07):
Right.
And I understand, but since I'vebeen home from prison, I've been
trying to build a relationshipwith him and it is just like
he's hot headed.
Toni (16:14):
I tell Matthew, like, all we can do is pray about it.
Like we can't control anybodyelse's actions or reactions, and
I know that it aggravatesMatthew, and Matthew gets
frustrated and because Matthewcan be hotheaded.
Anthony had to get it fromsomewhere.
Um, Matthew can be hotheadedtoo.
That's a lot.
But it's just like, we just prayabout it, that's all.
Like, we pray about stuff withall of our kids because
(16:37):
Nicholas, Nicholas is gonna befour years old and Nicholas is
level three autistic, you know,so we have a lot of challenges
and stuff.
And I think for Matthew thatit's more difficult because
Matthew's not only getting to bea father for the first time,
really, but now we have a childwith special needs.
(16:59):
Like I get the
Matt (17:00):
experience.
All the stuff that a dad does,where I didn't get that before
because, and it wasn't becauseof nobody else.
It was'cause of my own choices.
Yeah.
You know that I didn't get toexperience that.
Do I regret the choices that Imade with my first two kids?
I really do.
Addiction is nothing to playwith but when you choose your
addiction over your family oryour kids, is bad.
(17:23):
Yeah.
How long?
Addiction don't have a hearteither.
You know?
It doesn't care what it takesfrom you, who it takes from you.
Where it sends you.
Like addiction is a disease.
Yeah.
And a lot of folks don't.
They look at it like addictionis just, oh, your choice.
I mean, it was your choice to doit, but to get addicted to It's
a sickness.
(17:43):
It's a disease that it is hardto come out of.
I mean, it alters.
I know if I can do it though,anybody can.
Toni (17:48):
Yeah.
Matt (17:49):
You just gotta want it.
Toni (17:50):
It definitely alters, you know?
I mean, you gotta think with allthose chemicals that you're
pumping into your body,
Matt (17:55):
every chemical from a meth, for meth, every single
chemical itself can kill you.
But then you mix it all togetherand you're snoring it or smoking
it, shooting it.
Wow.
Toni (18:06):
I mean there's even things that, I mean, I can't speak for
Matthew.
I know for me, as far as likementally memory wise, yeah, I've
gotten a little bit older, butthere are things that um, I deal
with, you know, that I know areresidual side effects from when
I was in active addiction andthe drugs that I would doing.
How they took a toll on yourbody.
(18:26):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And sometimes you don't feel it,until later on down the road,
you know, like I have my bestfriend of 34 years.
She was a heroin addict forabout seven years, and she got
clean and she got sober and shemoved to Florida with me.
And she was doing really, reallygood Three years into her
(18:47):
sobriety, she had a brainaneurysm and passed away,
unfortunately, in 2016.
And that is because of what shehad put her body through during
her active addiction.
Wow.
You know?
Phil (19:01):
Uh, tell me at what point Jesus stepped into each of your
lives in a very personal way.
Like, like,'cause I know Matt,you shared just kind of growing
up, knew about God.
You didn't really have apersonal relationship with him.
But did there come a time whenyou actually made that choice to
receive Jesus as your savior,to, to make it personal, to give
(19:23):
your life to him?
Matt (19:24):
I think I'm still working on that.
Okay.
'cause like I said, I have aissue with my faith and I guess
it's not really an issue, butit's hard for me sometimes to
put my faith into something thatI can't see or hear physically.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm working on it, youknow, and things are getting a
little easier, a little better.
Um, he tells
Toni (19:43):
me all the time that I have enough faith for the both
of us, you know, because I'malways like, stop stressing.
Jamie Lee Pierce, who's myimmediate supervisor with Safe
House, um, she always says, Goddidn't bring us this far just to
bring us this far.
Right.
And
Matt (20:00):
yeah.
And I know I wouldn't be heretoday if it wasn't for him.
Yeah.
And there's things I know thatcouldn't be done without his
help or his guidance, but Ijust,
Phil (20:12):
you're just not quite all the way there yet.
There's things that I question.
Matt (20:15):
Yeah.
And so for that, with mequestioning it, there's, I can't
fully commit.
Yeah.
I get it.
Do I believe that he's real?
Do I believe that he gave hisson for our sins and the things
that he does, that he shows usevery day that he loves us?
And the things like that, yes, Ibelieve that.
But with me questioning anddoubting certain situations or
(20:38):
certain things.
I don't think I'm ready to fullycommit.
it is just something I get that.
Phil (20:44):
Well, Tony, how, how did that, when was that time
decision made for you?
For
Toni (20:48):
me, I grew up Catholic.
Like my family had us in thechurch.
My grandmother walked aroundwith her rosary beads and her
bag of prayers.
I, uh, I was christened.
I made my communion, I did mypenance, my confirmation, all of
that.
But I never felt like I belongedin the Catholic church.
(21:08):
I always had a relationship withGod, but never felt like I
belonged there.
So that steered me away from Godfor a really, really long time.
But honestly, my come to Jesusmoment was, asking him to give
me a way out, and suddenly I hada way out, and even now, like I
tell Matthew all the time, like,it's gonna be okay.
(21:31):
Like, he's like, how are you notstressed?
How are you not worried aboutthe bills?
Because I've seen what he cando.
I've seen it, you know,especially like working at the
ministry and stuff.
Like I have seen some amazingthings.
I've seen some real hail Marymoments and stuff.
That's nothing short of amiracle, I've seen what God's
(21:53):
done in his life.
I've seen what God, I've seenit.
You know, so there is, there isno, no doubt, no questions.
I'm like, just give it to God.
Just give it to God.
We're good.
As long as he's the captain atthe wheel, I'm good.
You and I see with my son, I seewith my son every day how he's
(22:13):
growing and developing andlearning and things that they
may have thought that hewouldn't be able to do.
And you'll see like I post onFacebook about Nicholas all the
time and I'm like, look at God,look at God working in my baby.
You know, because he's all Igot, my relationship with God at
the end of the day is all I got.
And without him, none of thiswould be possible.
(22:37):
None of it.
Not my marriage, not Nicholas,not the fact that both of my dad
just turned 81 years old.
He's still mobile and stillliving on his own and still
working.
And the fact that him and mymother are both still here with
me and I have everything that Ionce prayed for.
I didn't know at the time it wasMatthew I was praying for.
(22:59):
It was Nicholas.
I was praying for, but.
All those tears were shed invain.
none (23:04):
Yeah.
You
Toni (23:04):
know, all that crying out and begging God and he heard me,
and I have everything that Iprayed for, so
Phil (23:11):
That's amazing.
Wow.
Yeah.
So, all right.
Lessons, Matt, over the yearsand all that you've been through
and seen, what are some of thekey lessons that you would pull
out and maybe share for thosethat are listening?
Matt (23:28):
Don't put yourself in an environment you're not
comfortable in.
Phil (23:31):
Yeah.
Don't put yourself in anenvironment you're not
comfortable in.
Matt (23:33):
Because
Phil (23:34):
if you're not comfortable, you make bad decisions.
Matt (23:36):
I don't know, say like you put yourself in a situation or
yeah.
Put yourself in a situation andyou're okay, and then something
happens and you're notcomfortable.
If you're not comfortable, yougotta leave.
none (23:47):
Yeah.
Matt (23:47):
Because then either something bad could happen or
the situation could turn bad foryou.
Phil (23:52):
Yeah.
There's an awareness piece tothat.
Like I think, I think all of us,God gives us the ability to
recognize that maybe that sixthsense, something's not right.
I'm not comfortable.
This is right.
This has a potential of.
Taking me in a wrong path, whatdo I do at my click?
It's just sometimes, either,number one, we're not aware, we
don't have that awareness or torecognize, okay, these are some
(24:14):
yellow flags, red flags.
Right.
I should be paying attention.
Matt (24:17):
Right.
And
Phil (24:17):
then maybe sometimes we just, we are aware and we just
don't care.
Matt (24:20):
Like, just be truthfully, be more aware of the,
Toni (24:25):
be mindful of the company you keep.
Yeah.
Pretty much is what I'm tryingto say.
That's huge.
I mean that's
Phil (24:30):
so, that really is like, as I hear people share their
stories so often it begins withhanging out with the people that
Yeah.
Really they shouldn't have beenhanging out with.
I mean, it, it reminds me of,uh, I dunno if you guys are
familiar with the story of theprophet Elisha.
He was coming out of a town andthere was this group of kids
that started making fun of him.
(24:51):
Mm-hmm.
Like they, I think the Biblerecords her talking, making fun
of him before being bald.
God, thou bald man.
Yeah.
There's making fun of him.
And he curses the children.
Right.
And the Bible says that eitherone or two, she bears come out
of the woods and kill thechildren.
And I, I think about that storyand I think probably not all the
kids were actually taking partin making fun of him,
Toni (25:12):
but they all, but there were some that
Phil (25:14):
were just hanging out with people they shouldn't have been
hanging out with and they gothit with the consequences.
Yeah.
Toni (25:21):
Like I remember one of our place, wrong time, one of our
leaders one time.
At one of our meetings had givenan analogy about rotten fruit
and how if it's in a bowl withother good fruit, eventually
it's gonna turn
Phil (25:35):
spreads fast.
Toni (25:36):
Yeah.
It's gonna turn that other fruitbad.
And it, that made me reallythink like, wow, you don't
really think about it.
It's really a lot of it is thecompany that you keep For sure.
Yeah.
Phil (25:46):
Which speaks to the wisdom of Matt's dad when he was like,
you're not going over there.
Toni (25:51):
You know, you surround yourself with positive people
who are chasing thatrelationship with God who are
successful and, I'll say, well,to do financially, you know.
it rubs off on you.
Yeah.
And suddenly you want that.
You, not that you have thatjealousy or, envy, but just it
Phil (26:10):
influences you.
Toni (26:11):
Yeah.
It influences you, it inspiresyou.
Like, I wanna do better, I wannabe better.
I wanna, you know.
Yeah.
So, but if you have, if you'resurrounded by people who are
always negative and alwaysgetting high and, you know, just
living that day to day, you'relike, oh all right, well this is
as good as it gets, you know?
Yeah.
Phil (26:31):
Uh, other key lessons,
Toni (26:32):
give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Because even at the darkesttime, even at your worst, at
your lowest, God really doeslove you.
He really does.
And he really does hear you.
And although one thing that Ihad to learn the hard way,
things aren't always gonnahappen on our time when we want
them to, when we think theyshould.
(26:52):
But there is a plan for you.
There is a plan for you.
He hasn't forsaken you.
He hasn't forgotten about you.
And you know, just keep going.
Keep going.
Don't give up because your timeis coming.
Your time is coming.
Matt (27:05):
it, one thing I've always said since being in prison and
stuff is if you wanna be better,you gotta do better.
none (27:11):
Yeah.
You know,
Matt (27:13):
so doing, doing better ain't go out here, going to do
the same thing I.
Go hang out with this person orthat person.
Phil (27:19):
So, uh, say that one more time.
If you wanna be better, youbetter.
If you
Matt (27:22):
wanna be better, you gotta do better.
You can't go out here andcontinue to do the same thing.
And it's fair to be a betterperson or get better results
without making a better choice.
Toni (27:32):
It's like the definition of insanity.
Matt (27:34):
Yeah.
Toni (27:34):
You know, you keep doing the same thing over and over
again, expecting things to turnout differently.
And when it comes to thosedemons, it's not going to, it's
never gonna end well, you'renever gonna have control of it.
You're never gonna be able totame that monkey on your back.
Matt (27:49):
And don't be afraid to ask for help.
That's one thing I never did isask for help.
And it just, it takes you so fardown the rabbit hole that you
can't see no other way.
Yeah.
Either death or prison.
And that's what I tell a fewpeople that I know that still do
drugs is like, man, you got oneor two choices.
You got a prison center, prisonsentence or a casket.
(28:12):
Choose your choice.
Toni (28:13):
Yeah.
Those streets don't love you.
Yeah.
Those streets don't.
Your family loves you.
Your family loves you, and theyneed you.
Jesus
Phil (28:22):
loves you.
Toni (28:23):
Jesus loves you.
Yes, he does.
Phil (28:25):
Okay.
Wow.
Any other key lessons you guyswould point out?
How about, how about marriagesuccess tips?
Just say, yes ma'am.
Feed him.
Toni (28:34):
Feed him.
Well make sure you know how tocook.
You know what I told my daughterwho's newly engaged and stuff,
marriage advice is like, Ialways try to help ask Matthew,
can I help you?
It's not always about I loveyou.
Yeah.
He knows I love him, but when Isay, can I help you?
It's like mentally, physically,you know, Matthew's very
(28:55):
prideful.
Matthew will not ask for help.
And I, that, that might be amale
Phil (28:59):
gender trait.
It is, but I'm a little bit ofthe same way too.
Toni (29:02):
You know, like I have a really bad habit of putting on
that superwoman cape andexhausting myself beyond repair
by the end of the night.
Yeah.
You know?
But, but can I help you?
Phil (29:14):
I love that because that essentially is love in action.
Yeah.
That's showing, and
Matt (29:20):
actions definitely speak louder than words.
And another thing is don't getangry and go to bed.
Tomorrow's not promised tonobody.
Yeah.
Or leave the house.
Don't leave the house whenyou're angry.
Don't go to bed angry.
Because you never know what'sgonna happen, and don't fight
and argue about it.
If you disagree and it turnsinto an argument, walk away,
calm down and come back and talklater.
Toni (29:40):
One thing I learned to do differently with Matthew than I
did in my previousrelationships, honestly if you
ever see me on social media, Iboast about Matthew all the
time.
How amazing.
How wonderful he is.
He's so, which he is, but Idon't take any of our dirty
laundry to social media eitheranymore, which is a big issue
(30:01):
that a lot of people anymore.
Anymore.
I don't, I've I learned thatlesson.
I'm a work in progress.
Matt (30:07):
I don't like drama.
I don't like, there's a lot oftruth in that.
So I don't like social media orthe world to know what I have
going on behind my closed doors.
If we have a issue, that issueis between me and her.
We need to sit down and talkabout it.
And if we can't without arguing,then we're gonna come back later
and talk about it.
Toni (30:23):
I mean, we've, we've even gone to counseling at the
Pastoral Institute, which theyare lifesavers over there, not
because she finally figured
Matt (30:33):
out she stays on the phone too much.
Toni (30:34):
Not because our marriage is bad.
We just have
Matt (30:38):
certain things that we need to learn how to work
through and how to make betterfor us.
Yeah.
Toni (30:44):
And that's where the, it's, it doesn't hurt to ask for
help because we wannacommunicate effectively and
efficiently because this is itfor us.
Phil (30:53):
You're in it for life.
This is no divorce.
No.
You are together permanently.
That's just like what God saidwe're supposed to be in know,
like one man, one woman forever.
Yeah.
Matt (31:03):
That's these things right here.
Phil (31:04):
Cell phones horrible.
They're worse.
Yeah.
They could get us in so manytrouble.
So much trouble drama.
Matt (31:09):
No, not only that.
There's a chance they made youwake up, you go to work, you
spend eight hours at work, youcome home, you gotta be in bed
to get a good night's sleep byjust say 10 o'clock.
So you got from what, fiveo'clock until 10 o'clock, which
is five hours of the day.
You either you cook dinner mosttime if you're a woman or even a
(31:29):
man, you got time to cookdinner.
Yeah, Matthew
Toni (31:32):
can cook.
Matt (31:33):
You got time to cook dinner and then eat.
Shower.
If you got kids, you got stuffto do with them.
But how much of that time areyou doing that on your phone?
Out of that five hours that yougot?
Yeah.
How many hours are you on thephone?
Toni (31:46):
We get so wrapped up in watching videos, like we'll just
be scrolling through watchingvideos and then it's like, dang,
we hadn't spent any timetogether.
You know?
Like you have to make yourpartner a priority.
Don't you have to.
Matt (32:01):
Don't spend all your time on your phone.
If you're gonna do anything onyour phone, get something that
you and your husband or yourwife or your boyfriend,
girlfriend, partner, whoever yougot.
Get something on there that cando together.
You can do together and learnsomething about your partner.
Like we have an app on our
Toni (32:18):
phone called Gottman Cards and they're like relationship
conversation starters.
They have helped us a lot.
Matt (32:26):
Wow.
Yeah.
Awesome.
You, you can ask your partner aquestion and let them answer it,
and then you answer it as well.
And it's a good conversationstarter because you're trying to
get to know stuff about them,but also at the same time they
get to know stuff about you.
Yeah.
And if that's what you wanna dois play on your phone, be on
your phone, do it together.
(32:47):
Yeah.
It's like, I'll go home and I'llthrow mine on the charger.
I don't care about that phone,but hers, she stuck over there
like,
Toni (32:53):
yeah.
And then when I'm at home it'slike, well, hold on.
Phil (32:55):
Yeah.
Somebody text.
That's a lot of, so you guyshave shared quite a bit of
really solid marriage advice.
Like first and foremost,beginning with the fact of when
you decide to be married, it'sfor life.
There's no consideration ofdivorce there.
You, there's, you're just,you're together.
Divorce.
And that comes from Genesis andthe, and just,
Toni (33:16):
but I believe too, when God is at the forefront of it on
air, it's completely like I'vebeen divorced.
Twice.
Matt (33:22):
Me too.
Toni (33:23):
He's been divorced twice.
In those other relationships.
God was not at the center of it.
He wasn't at the foundation.
It wasn't a, a godlyrelationship, so yeah, you could
say divorce is not an option.
That would be kind ofhypocritical of me because I
have been divorced twice andstuff.
But now you wanna
Phil (33:41):
do it God's way.
It's a
Toni (33:42):
completely different, like it was all my
Phil (33:45):
way, the, that, the wrong way.
But now it's God's way didn'twork.
Matt (33:49):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, if our always worked,we will still be with the first
person we was married
Phil (33:54):
to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I love that though.
It's because things just, theyturn out better when you do it
God's way.
Yeah, they just do.
Toni? (34:00):
For sure.
Phil (34:01):
There's a crazy article in the Wall Street Journal about a
year ago they had done someresearch and it was, the Federal
Reserve was stumped.
The Wall Street Journal.
They were like, we can't figurethis out.
Right?
And, and it was just simplylooking at net worth.
They looked at it, the net worthof a single person, the average
in the country, about$6,000.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Net worth of two people livingtogether.
(34:21):
Just a male female.
Toni? (34:23):
Right.
Phil (34:23):
Essentially like a married relationship, everything,
they're just not technicallymarried.
Toni? (34:29):
Right.
Phil (34:29):
And their net worth was about 16,000, 17,000.
And then they looked at samescenario, been together for the
same number of same amount oftime living together, but two
married individuals, their networth worth was$64,000 on
average.
And the only difference wasbeing married.
There's so much that goes intothe mindset, the like, so much,
(34:52):
and it just, it's fascinating.
Toni (34:53):
My whole perception, and worldly views and stuff has
changed dramatically, incomparison to where I was just
10 years ago.
Yeah.
And it's so much better.
Phil (35:04):
I love your phrase, can I help you?
How can I help you?
Can I help you?
I mean, that's, I think that'shuge.
Those are probably the three
Toni (35:10):
most important words, you know?
Wow.
Because especially for a man,they, they men take the weight
of the world on their shoulders,the weight of their family, the
weight of their careers.
I mean, not to say that womendon't, but men carry a lot more
burdens I think, that gounspoken, so as long as he knows
(35:31):
like, Hey, I'm here.
I got you.
Whatever you need, you know, wedo this together.
That's, that's our thing.
It's us against the world.
Matt (35:39):
That's right.
You gotta do it together, man.
You can't just, you can't go anddo something to expect your
partner or whoever you're withto be like, okay, I got you.
No, you gotta do it together.
And you gotta know that you'redoing it together with the help
of the other one.
Because if you get out there andyou try to swim on your own and
nobody's there to help you,drown.
Yeah.
and trust your partner.
(35:59):
Yeah.
Trust them.
Believe in them and respect.
Awesome.
Respect is a big thing in ourhousehold.
Like if you can't respect theother one, then why are you even
talking?
Phil (36:10):
Yeah.
That's so good.
Craziest story ever from yourpast.
Toni (36:17):
Yeah, we can't talk about that.
You can share that.
You can share.
Oh, you can share, yeah.
Okay.
Craziest.
Phil (36:23):
So, yeah, I guess there's some stuff you couldn't really
share, but
Toni (36:25):
Yeah.
There's, or could
Phil (36:26):
you share it in a, in a, uh, PG manner and not, uh,
probably not.
So
Toni (36:31):
I was living in North Carolina one time and I was
about 15 years old.
I had left a party and I wascompletely intoxicated and
inebriated and decided at twoo'clock in the morning, I was
going to walk the railroadtracks home.
And in my drunken stupor, Iactually came face to face with
(36:55):
a moose.
Wow.
A wild moose.
And he proceeded to chase medown the railroad tracks.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was kind of crazy.
One time we hit a deer in thecar and we got out of the car to
check and make sure the deerwas, whether it was alive or
dead, and the deer jumped up andchased us around the car back
(37:15):
in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a couple of them thatwas, uh,
Phil (37:18):
wow.
Toni (37:19):
Pretty gnarly.
Matt, you ever
Phil (37:21):
been chased by an animal?
no.
Toni (37:22):
You know, I went to Canada one time, Montreal, Quebec,
Canada, and we were at thisplace called Mount Royale.
And in, as you're walking outthe exit, which is outdoors,
there's all these magnolia treesand stuff, and there are
hundreds of swirls and theyliterally will chase you.
Wow.
Right out of the park.
(37:43):
Yeah.
They are not afraid of humans.
Sounds like a horror movie.
It is.
It's kind of, it's like thebirds, you know, the Alfred
Hitchcock, the birds.
It is, it's kind of scary.
Yeah.
All my crazy stories somehowinvolve animals.
Phil (37:55):
Do you guys have animals in the house?
Matt (37:56):
We have a rescue pit that we rescue.
She comes in at nighttime?
Yeah, she has her own bed and sorescue and like daytime, she
stay outside.
I have my
Toni (38:08):
cat that I've had probably, she's Bravo's about
nine years old now.
And then my mom has a kitten,well it's a cat now, but it's a
kitten that I actually rescuedfrom out in front of Safe House.
Wow.
When I first started workinghere, it was pouring down rain
and this little kitten wasbehind the garbage cans and you
should have never brought it inat the front engine to Safe
House and a cat is Hudson.
(38:30):
Tim Hudson had brought it out acan of tuna fish and I was like,
Hey, I'm gonna take lunch guys.
And I grabbed the kitten and Ithrew it in my car and drove it
home to my mom.
Yeah, my mom still has it.
Wow.
Phil (38:41):
You mentioned the cat at Safe House.
Mm-hmm.
So, and I don't think we'vetalked about this, but you're
the bookkeeper for Safe House.
I
Toni (38:46):
am bookkeeper administrator, personal
assistant.
Phil (38:51):
Awesome.
Yeah.
Doing a lot of good things.
Yeah.
Toni (38:53):
And it's crazy too, and this is another way I've seen
God intervene.
This was a really big moment inmy life because I had had
Nicholas and I was looking forjust something part-time to get
myself out of the house like.
Paw Patrol and Mickey MouseClubhouse just were not cutting
me, driving me crazy anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I needed some adult interaction.
I needed to talk to somebody whowas gonna talk back.
(39:16):
So my friend Helen, who wasworking at Safe House at the
time, um, she was like, Hey,they're looking for somebody to
run the front desk at SafeHouse, you know, she was like,
if you wanna just get out of thehouse, blah, blah, blah,
whatever.
Okay.
So I applied for the job.
I went and met with Jamie Lee,and we had a really great
(39:36):
interview.
Um, we spoke like I had knownher my entire life, you know, I
told her about my past, myeducation, my experience and she
was like, Tony, I really thinkyou're just overqualified for
the job.
She was like, you're not gonnalike it, you know?
She was like, the, the payprobably is substandard compared
(39:57):
to what you're used to.
And I was like, I really don'tcare.
Like, I just, she was like,well, we're looking for a
part-time bookkeeper.
And I like perked up.
And I was like, really?
And so I hung around Safe Houseand I met with Neil that day and
it was just like, yeah, when canyou start, you know?
Wow.
So July 7th has been two yearsthat I've been with the company
(40:20):
now, and I've grown my positionand, shown them what I could do.
And it's just it was a perfect,like God was working in that
moment.
Wow.
Because he knew like.
Yeah, you're not gonna be at thefront desk.
You there?
I have a bigger purpose for you.
Awesome.
I love that.
That's really cool.
Phil (40:39):
Last thoughts that you wanna share?
Anything Matt?
Toni (40:42):
No.
You don't have anything?
Matt (40:44):
I'm
Phil (40:44):
hungry.
Toni (40:45):
Your money's hungry.
All right.
Hey, I mean it.
Yeah,
Phil (40:48):
It's lunchtime.
Yeah.
No, thank you.
Any last thoughts from you,Tony?
Toni (40:51):
Thank you for this opportunity.
You know, this is, you know,when you get it all out, it's
therapeutic, you know, andsometimes you talk about stuff
or you remember stuff thatyou've put in the back of your
mind.
And I know during thisinterview, I, you've seen me sit
here and shed a couple tears andI'm just, I'm so proud of where
we were and where we are andwhere we're going and in our
(41:15):
careers.
Like, once you, you have thatfoundation, like everything just
falls into place and that'sawesome.
Life is not perfect.
We struggle.
We live paycheck to paychecksome days, you know, we don't
know how we're gonna put gas inthe car during those off weeks,
but life is good.
Life is, and nothing
Matt (41:33):
when you get to the good part of life, don't forget where
you came from.
Yeah.
You forget where you came from.
You get, as they say, a bighead.
Stay humble.
none (41:41):
Yeah.
Phil (41:42):
That's a good last word.
You guys have an amazing story,like each of you individually
and the way that God has broughtyour lives together.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you.
Thanks for having us.
It's been an encouragement to meand, um, just, yeah, it's been
awesome.
You guys mind if I close this ina word of prayer?
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Lord, thank you for your grace.
(42:02):
Thank you for Matt.
Thank you for Tony.
Thank you for how you haveworked over the years and their
lives in so many different ways.
Lord, I just pray your blessingupon their marriage, their
family, their future.
I pray for Nicholas Lord blessand guide him, and I know you've
got great plans for his life.
(42:24):
Lord, give Tony wisdom and Mattwisdom.
Help them to be strong in theirlove and just to stay true to
what they know is right what youteach in your word.
Lord, just help Matt in hisjourney of faith.
Father, help him, uh, with thequestions that he's still
facing, just to lead him Lordand to a, a place where he can
(42:47):
just totally surrender to you.
Thank you for the miraclesyou've done in their lives, and
thank you for the great thingsthat you have planned for their
future.
In Jesus name I pray, amen.
Amen.
Phil Shuler (43:00):
We look forward to being with you again next week
as we share another testimonyabout the power and the goodness
of God to change lives throughSafe House Ministries.
if you are someone listening tothis podcast that loves to hear
these stories of the greatthings that God is doing in
changing people's lives for thebetter, and if you would like to
be a part of that work, pleasereach out to us You can reach us
(43:23):
at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus,Georgia, 31,904.
You can call us at seven oh sixthree two two.
3 7, 7 3, or you can email us atinfo@safehouse-ministries.com.
Microphone (Samson Q2U Mi (43:38):
Thank you so much for being with us
this week for the renew restoreand rejoice podcast of safe
house ministries, we pray thatGod will bless you this week.
And we look forward to havingyou back with us again next week
for a new episode.
HellO, and welcome to Renew, Restore, Rejoice, the
(00:03):
Safe House Ministries podcast,where we share stories of the
power of God to change livesthrough Safe House Ministries.
Safe House Ministries is basedout of Columbus, Georgia, and we
are a ministry that exists tolove and serve people who have
been affected by addiction,homelessness, and incarceration.
I'm your host, Phil Shuler, theDirector of Development for Safe
House Ministries here inColumbus, Georgia.
(00:24):
Safe House serves over 1, 100people each month as they
transition back into ourcommunity.
Safe House provides an abundanceof services including 213 beds
for homeless individuals andfamilies, case management for
obtaining job skills and longterm employment.
Over 300 hot meals every day,free clothing, and so much more.
One of the most incredibleservices that Safe House
(00:45):
provides is our free 9 12 monthintensive outpatient substance
abuse program, which is statelicensed, CARF accredited, and
has no wait list.
Almost 100 percent ofindividuals staying in our
shelters who follow our threephase program become fully
employed within a few months.
And 68 percent of individualswho stay at least one night with
us End up finding work andmoving into their own home.
(01:07):
Thank you for being with ustoday and listening to our
podcast.
We hope you enjoy this week'sepisode.
Toni (01:12):
Yeah.
I didn't get introduced to otherdrugs until I had moved to
Columbus.
I was a little bit older.
I was in my early twenties.
Phil (01:21):
Was your dad in Columbus?
Um, is that Yeah,
Toni (01:23):
because my dad was a tattoo artist.
Phil (01:25):
Wow.
So, so he had left New York?
Yeah.
Toni (01:28):
My dad, well my dad left New York.
He lived in New Jersey.
He first, we lived in NorthCarolina.
Yeah.
Anywhere where there's a majormilitary base.
none (01:37):
Okay.
Toni (01:37):
That's where my dad's business was, because he's a
tattoo artist, so, yeah, thatmakes sense.
He wound up moving here.
He worked on Victory Drive withFalcon, who is a very well-known
tattoo artist.
Like they ran Columbus in thelate eighties, early nineties.
So we moved here because of thebusiness from Fort Benning.
A lot of rangers, you know, mydad had a lot of friends here.
(02:00):
And I, it was my early twentieswith my first ex-husband that
it, it's always because ofsomebody of the opposite sex,
you know?
It was like, okay, let's startdoing drugs.
Basically cocaine was at aparty, cocaine was at a party.
It's your own person.
You make your own choice.
Yeah, you're right.
But I'm saying it's always likesomeone involving the
Phil (02:21):
environments, right?
You put yourself in a situationwhere there's an opportunity,
right.
Or a temptation, and you're, andyou just, especially me.
Toni (02:28):
cause at that time, I had a bad boy magnet stuck to my
forehead.
So it was like the worst youwere, the more attracted to you.
I am.
Seriously.
And I think that's because Ithought I was so hardcore and
gangster at the time when I was16, 17, 18 years old, you know?
Yeah.
It started out innocently,cocaine at parties, pills here
(02:52):
and there.
Mm-hmm.
And then when I was with mysecond ex-husband, which is the
23 year unhealthy toxicrelationship that I ran from
they had learned how to cookcrystal meth.
And you know, it was like, oh,we can make all this easy money.
Tony's always about the easymoney, but then we were cooking
(03:13):
enough just to support ourhabit, you know?
And I had already had my son atthe time he was about two and
like Matthew, it was like daysand days and days on end.
Hallucinating Wow.
Hearing things.
Fortunately for me I never gotto the point where I was
homeless.
I never got to the point where Ilanded myself in prison.
Phil (03:35):
You were just with this fella, this second husband for a
long time in a toxic wasaddiction of it.
You know,
Toni (03:42):
we just, we liked getting high and um, I never wound up
losing my kids or anything likethat, but the relationship had
become so bad and so abusivebecause of the drugs,
Phil (03:56):
physical, mental, all of
Toni (03:57):
it.
Phil (03:58):
Yeah,
Toni (03:58):
all of it, for sure.
And, um, I remember just prayingto God like, get me outta here.
Get me outta here.
Something has got to change.
Something's gotta give.
And it was probably about.
Two, three months later, um, May13th, 2005, I found out I was
pregnant with my daughter and Istopped cold Turkey.
Phil (04:20):
You just quit the drugs?
Yeah.
Toni (04:22):
I never I never went to a 12 step program.
I never went to a meeting.
In that moment I had my prioritywas protect my daughter.
Just mothers protect the child.
Yeah.
Love.
I always say that I was born tobe a mom.
I was definitely born to be amother.
My, my kids were always enough.
Like they say, you can't getclean for other people.
(04:44):
You have to wanna do ityourself.
And for me it was always mykids.
You know?
So I got pregnant, stopped coldTurkey and that was it.
We left and went to Florida.
We moved to Florida.
Now he was still using Yeah, hewas still using at the time.
So, and
Phil (04:58):
he was the toxic, he was the am abuser of the Yeah.
Toni (05:00):
And we actually together moved to Florida and we lived in
Florida and.
From my understanding he gotclean when we were in Florida,
you know, for a long time.
A very long time.
But there had already been somuch damage done in the
relationship.
So did, did he stop being
Phil (05:17):
as abusive when he got clean?
Um,
Toni (05:18):
no.
We were just very at that's whatI'm saying.
At that point, there was, hadbeen so much damage done, we
were just extremely unhealthytogether.
I'm not gonna knock him in, likehe's a decent guy, but we
weren't good together.
Toni? (05:32):
Yeah, it
Toni (05:32):
was very, very toxic.
Very, very unhealthy.
Um, I always justified stayingwith my kids, needed their mom
and dad.
When talking to my kids as theywere older after I had left, it
was, I did more damage to themby staying because of the stuff
that they saw growing up or thethings that they heard or what
(05:52):
we put them through than I wouldhave left had they been younger
and not had those memories atthe end of the relationship, it
was just 2019 I had went througha complete transformation.
Um, I had had gastric bypasssurgery.
I was, at the time when I hadthe surgery, 436 pounds.
none (06:11):
Wow.
Toni (06:12):
Uh, yeah.
And in a two year time span, Igot down to like one 70.
So it was like, like I wentthrough a lot mentally and
emotionally and I can't
Phil (06:21):
even imagine that.
Yeah.
That
Toni (06:23):
was crazy.
My mom used to always tell me,like, I could tell you to leave
all day, but at the end of theday, you're not gonna leave
until you, you've had enough.
You know?
And I literally remember wakingup one morning in August and
just being like, I can't do thisanymore.
Like, I'm almost 40 years old.
I don't wanna be 60 years old.
And my entire life has passed meby, you know, so at 40 years
(06:46):
old, I took my 16 and my14-year-old daughter, and I
moved back in with my parentsand that was a.
And where
Phil (06:53):
were they living?
Toni (06:54):
In Florida.
Okay.
Yeah.
We moved into their threebedroom little townhouse.
Wow.
There was six of us living inthe house, you know, so that was
a very humbling experience, youknow?
And then during this time I had,I had this guy, pretty much
promising me the world fromprison.
And it's like, and it sounded
Phil (07:11):
so good.
Toni (07:12):
Yeah, it sounds really good.
And my mom was like, I don'tknow, Tony Ann, I don't know
what you're doing.
You're like, he's
Phil (07:17):
gonna get me out of this mess.
Right.
It's gonna, he's yeah.
Toni (07:20):
Right.
You know?
So, like I said, we startedtalking in March of 2019, and in
July, I got in contact with hismom and I was like, Hey, let's
go see Matthew
Phil (07:30):
to visit him.
Toni (07:31):
Yeah.
She hadn't seen him How long hadit been?
Two years.
none (07:34):
Yeah.
Toni (07:35):
Yeah.
So was
Phil (07:36):
this when you brought his son as well?
No.
So
Toni (07:39):
me and her went first by ourselves in July.
Yeah.
And after the first visit I wasall in, I was completely smitten
with He had you hooked?
Yeah, he had me hooked.
And did you
Phil (07:50):
know that Matt, did you know you had her hooked or was
that the intention, or you, isthis her, her crazy stalk stalk
that just latched on?
I
Matt (07:58):
think that's what it was.
No.
Like over the few months that wehave been talking and stuff,
like, uh, we had gotten seriousabout doing things and yeah.
Truthfully, I'm just like.
Get out, whatever.
Going about my business.
Over the time that I wasincarcerated I fell in love with
her.
none (08:15):
Yeah,
Toni (08:15):
it was great.
I think because
Phil (08:18):
she won you over.
Toni? (08:19):
Yeah.
Toni (08:19):
But I think it was great because we were only able to
call and email and text.
There was no physical intimacy.
That's a, you know, that
Phil (08:28):
messes so many people up.
It does.
It does.
It
Toni (08:30):
does.
But we didn't have thatopportunity, so we really got to
know each other and who we were,where we were, what we wanted
outta life.
Yeah.
So I think that, again, himbeing in prison and that lack of
physical connection gave us theopportunity to really like,
(08:51):
okay, where do we want it?
Where do we want this to go?
What are Yeah.
You're able to start
Phil (08:55):
expectations in a healthier place.
Toni (08:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because during that time, youknow, my life was falling apart.
He was trying to rebuild his,and it's like he was my best
friend.
He was my best friend.
I could, and you know, it'sweird because
Phil (09:12):
you were just, you were shearing your heart that deep
things in your heart.
Toni (09:15):
I, I can honestly say with 100% honesty that I have told
Matthew every single dark, dirtysecret that there is to know
about me because.
He made me wanna do better.
none (09:29):
Yeah.
Toni (09:29):
You know, I didn't want there to be any secrets.
Nothing, no holds barred.
Uh, he made me wanna be, youcan't unlock new doors with old
keys.
Yeah.
There's a lot of
Phil (09:40):
truth in this saying who you share your heart with is who
you fall in love with.
Yeah.
Toni (09:44):
And he was my best friend at the time, and I think that
friendship was the bestfoundation for what we have now.
Phil (09:51):
Yeah.
And, and it sounds like Matt wastruthful and a just a he was
true and on the right path and,and a good person that you could
share your heart with.
'cause he would, he would helpyou to get to a better place.
Toni (10:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Phil (10:02):
Unlike Old s Samson, he shared his heart with Delilah
and, uh Right.
Didn't quite turn out, turnedout too good for him.
Not so good for him.
But
Toni (10:08):
yeah, and it was just, you know, so I came with his mom in
July and I visited him and thenin August I jumped on a plane
and flew back to Memphis tovisit him.
And then in November, hisex-wife allowed me and his
mother to bring his son.
Wow.
Phil (10:24):
So what was that like, Matt, like to see your son after
so long?
had you communicated with him orwas it like a shock?
Total surprise.
I got the talk
Matt (10:33):
with them a little bit.
they had came up to see me once,my mom, my ex-wife, and my two
boys had came to see me when Ifirst got to prison.
My ceiling got caught withtoday.
Phil (10:43):
Well, they
Matt (10:44):
was taking us both to the shoe and put us both on
restriction, like from ourphone, our visits, and our
commissary The thing is, he tookthe charge, it was his, I
shouldn't have got in no trouble
none (10:54):
well, they
Matt (10:54):
never took my restriction for my visitation off.
Toni? (10:57):
And so
Matt (10:57):
they drove all the way from Phoenix City to Memphis,
Tennessee and couldn't see me.
Toni? (11:02):
So I had
Matt (11:03):
been in communication with 'em some, and uh, I didn't know
she was bringing them to see methough, until they were already
in Memphis.
I had talked to her the nightbefore and she was like, Hey,
I'm up here, uh, I'm gonna comesee you tomorrow.
And I'm like, okay.
And I heard my mom's voice inthe background.
I said, who's with you?
And she was like, your mom.
And I was like, okay, who is shetalking to if you're on the
phone?
And she's like, you'll see.
He's so nosy.
Toni (11:24):
She was like, you cannot surprise him with nothing.
Matt (11:26):
She was like, you'll see.
So I'm like, no, you tell me.
'cause I don't like surpriseslike that, especially in the
place where I'm at.
You have to tell me.
And so she told me that she wasbringing my son Taylor to see
me.
And uh,
Toni (11:38):
Matthew always says that that's the moment when he knew
Yeah.
That, that you and him weregonna, she boom, me and him were
gonna
Matt (11:44):
be, if she would go outta her way to bring my mom and my
son to see me, I knew that she,you'd be a fool not to, to
Phil (11:50):
not to capitalize on that right girl.
Matt (11:53):
But I mean, it is been great since I've been outta
prison.
Like we've had Nicholas, I'vegot my CDLs I got my regular
license after 17 years, and thenI've got my CDLs.
I was on five years.
Did y'all
Phil (12:06):
get married pretty quick right after?
Yeah.
Toni (12:08):
So he came home October of 2020 by the I was still living
in Florida at the time.
By the end of 2020, me and mykids packed up a U-Haul and
moved up here by the end of2020, I mean the end of October,
end of
Matt (12:23):
October.
By the end of the month, he gotout.
I got out October the ninth,October 30th, she's moving in.
Wow.
Yeah.
Toni (12:29):
And now were
Phil (12:29):
you, were you married or?
I was.
So you got divorced by thatpoint or?
Oh yeah.
Toni (12:34):
My divorce was finalized October 14th, 2020.
October 30th, 2020, me and mykids packed a U-Haul and moved
up here.
Wow.
Because Matthew couldn't get hisprobation transferred.
And I, I was, yeah.
I was, I couldn't stand beingaway
Matt (12:48):
from him anymore.
Probation.
none (12:49):
Yeah.
Matt (12:50):
And so when she moved up, uh, we stayed at my mom's and I
knew, like, I'm sleeping on thefloor in my mom's room.
My mom works third shift at agas station, but I'm sleeping on
the floor in my mom's roombecause their, their house is
small.
She's sleeping on the floorright next to me.
Toni (13:07):
We
Matt (13:07):
struggled.
I knew that she, she was, westruggled.
She was there with me.
You know what I'm saying?
She's not there for anything Igot.
'cause I didn't have nothing.
Yeah.
You know?
But then
Toni (13:15):
we moved up to an air mattress, we upgraded,
Matt (13:18):
and um, by February the first of 2021, we moved into our
own place.
Wow.
April.
Toni (13:24):
No.
So Fe Valentine's Day.
So this is how our 2021 went.
We moved into the place February1st, February 14th.
Matthew proposed April 13th.
We found out we were pregnantwith Nicholas.
May, 2021.
We got married.
And it was funny when we gotmarried, because we got married
(13:46):
the same day, my oldest son wasgraduating from high school in
Florida.
So we had the notary come to ourhouse, we signed the marriage
license in our dining room, andI gave him a kiss goodbye.
He went back to bed and I jumpedin the car and drove down to
Florida for my son's graduation.
Wow.
Yeah.
And then, so, and then we hadNicholas December 1st, 2021.
Matt (14:11):
Wow.
And then December 7th, 2022, Igot released 10, two years and
10 months early from federalprobation.
Toni (14:19):
Wow.
Yeah.
So he had five years.
He only had to serve two and ahalf as
Phil (14:22):
they, they saw that you were doing so well.
Yeah.
Matt (14:25):
Like my, uh, federal probation officer actually went
and he wrote a recommendationfor me to get released from
federal probation and took it tothe judge himself.
Wow.
Like hand delivered it to thejudge.
And we
Toni (14:38):
still to this day, keep in communication with him.
He calls and asks aboutNicholas, and he's agreed to do
Matthew's character letter whenhe files for his Pardon.
Phil (14:48):
That's awesome.
You know,
Toni (14:49):
but just to see the things that he's accomplished on his
own and the things that we'veaccomplished together, like.
It's nothing short of God.
That's
Phil (14:59):
amazing.
Toni (14:59):
It's nothing short of God.
Phil (15:01):
So now you guys are doing well, stable.
You both are working.
Toni (15:06):
Yeah.
Good
Phil (15:06):
jobs.
What, how so what is the kidsituation Who's all at the house
with you guys?
Just Nicholas.
Toni (15:13):
Just Nicholas now.
Okay.
Up until recently his youngestson, Taylor and his girlfriend
lived with us.
And my son Dominic lives inTennessee.
He's at Middle Tennessee StateUniversity.
Okay.
And my daughter Raylin, um, shemoved out on her own the end of
last year and she just gotengaged.
She'll be getting married in2026.
none (15:35):
Wow.
And
Toni (15:35):
his oldest son, Anthony, lives on his own and does his
own thing, so.
Okay.
Phil (15:40):
Yeah.
You guys have pretty goodrelationships with everybody,
not Anthony.
Toni (15:45):
Not Anthony, unfortunately with his oldest son.
I wish.
But
Phil (15:48):
he kind of.
Because of the years of whathappened and
Matt (15:52):
I believe that, I also think he holds a grudge against
me for being the type of dad Iam.
With Nicholas?
Toni (15:57):
Yeah, because how old is Nicholas?
I think he resents that.
Think Nicholas will be four.
December 1st.
Phil (16:02):
Okay.
So you're, you're a good dad andhe is resentful that you weren't
that for him.
Matt (16:07):
Right.
And I understand, but since I'vebeen home from prison, I've been
trying to build a relationshipwith him and it is just like
he's hot headed.
Toni (16:14):
I tell Matthew, like, all we can do is pray about it.
Like we can't control anybodyelse's actions or reactions, and
I know that it aggravatesMatthew, and Matthew gets
frustrated and because Matthewcan be hotheaded.
Anthony had to get it fromsomewhere.
Um, Matthew can be hotheadedtoo.
That's a lot.
But it's just like, we just prayabout it, that's all.
Like, we pray about stuff withall of our kids because
(16:37):
Nicholas, Nicholas is gonna befour years old and Nicholas is
level three autistic, you know,so we have a lot of challenges
and stuff.
And I think for Matthew thatit's more difficult because
Matthew's not only getting to bea father for the first time,
really, but now we have a childwith special needs.
(16:59):
Like I get the
Matt (17:00):
experience.
All the stuff that a dad does,where I didn't get that before
because, and it wasn't becauseof nobody else.
It was'cause of my own choices.
Yeah.
You know that I didn't get toexperience that.
Do I regret the choices that Imade with my first two kids?
I really do.
Addiction is nothing to playwith but when you choose your
addiction over your family oryour kids, is bad.
(17:23):
Yeah.
How long?
Addiction don't have a hearteither.
You know?
It doesn't care what it takesfrom you, who it takes from you.
Where it sends you.
Like addiction is a disease.
Yeah.
And a lot of folks don't.
They look at it like addictionis just, oh, your choice.
I mean, it was your choice to doit, but to get addicted to It's
a sickness.
(17:43):
It's a disease that it is hardto come out of.
I mean, it alters.
I know if I can do it though,anybody can.
Toni (17:48):
Yeah.
Matt (17:49):
You just gotta want it.
Toni (17:50):
It definitely alters, you know?
I mean, you gotta think with allthose chemicals that you're
pumping into your body,
Matt (17:55):
every chemical from a meth, for meth, every single
chemical itself can kill you.
But then you mix it all togetherand you're snoring it or smoking
it, shooting it.
Wow.
Toni (18:06):
I mean there's even things that, I mean, I can't speak for
Matthew.
I know for me, as far as likementally memory wise, yeah, I've
gotten a little bit older, butthere are things that um, I deal
with, you know, that I know areresidual side effects from when
I was in active addiction andthe drugs that I would doing.
How they took a toll on yourbody.
(18:26):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And sometimes you don't feel it,until later on down the road,
you know, like I have my bestfriend of 34 years.
She was a heroin addict forabout seven years, and she got
clean and she got sober and shemoved to Florida with me.
And she was doing really, reallygood Three years into her
(18:47):
sobriety, she had a brainaneurysm and passed away,
unfortunately, in 2016.
And that is because of what shehad put her body through during
her active addiction.
Wow.
You know?
Phil (19:01):
Uh, tell me at what point Jesus stepped into each of your
lives in a very personal way.
Like, like,'cause I know Matt,you shared just kind of growing
up, knew about God.
You didn't really have apersonal relationship with him.
But did there come a time whenyou actually made that choice to
receive Jesus as your savior,to, to make it personal, to give
(19:23):
your life to him?
Matt (19:24):
I think I'm still working on that.
Okay.
'cause like I said, I have aissue with my faith and I guess
it's not really an issue, butit's hard for me sometimes to
put my faith into something thatI can't see or hear physically.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm working on it, youknow, and things are getting a
little easier, a little better.
Um, he tells
Toni (19:43):
me all the time that I have enough faith for the both
of us, you know, because I'malways like, stop stressing.
Jamie Lee Pierce, who's myimmediate supervisor with Safe
House, um, she always says, Goddidn't bring us this far just to
bring us this far.
Right.
And
Matt (20:00):
yeah.
And I know I wouldn't be heretoday if it wasn't for him.
Yeah.
And there's things I know thatcouldn't be done without his
help or his guidance, but Ijust,
Phil (20:12):
you're just not quite all the way there yet.
There's things that I question.
Matt (20:15):
Yeah.
And so for that, with mequestioning it, there's, I can't
fully commit.
Yeah.
I get it.
Do I believe that he's real?
Do I believe that he gave hisson for our sins and the things
that he does, that he shows usevery day that he loves us?
And the things like that, yes, Ibelieve that.
But with me questioning anddoubting certain situations or
(20:38):
certain things.
I don't think I'm ready to fullycommit.
it is just something I get that.
Phil (20:44):
Well, Tony, how, how did that, when was that time
decision made for you?
For
Toni (20:48):
me, I grew up Catholic.
Like my family had us in thechurch.
My grandmother walked aroundwith her rosary beads and her
bag of prayers.
I, uh, I was christened.
I made my communion, I did mypenance, my confirmation, all of
that.
But I never felt like I belongedin the Catholic church.
(21:08):
I always had a relationship withGod, but never felt like I
belonged there.
So that steered me away from Godfor a really, really long time.
But honestly, my come to Jesusmoment was, asking him to give
me a way out, and suddenly I hada way out, and even now, like I
tell Matthew all the time, like,it's gonna be okay.
(21:31):
Like, he's like, how are you notstressed?
How are you not worried aboutthe bills?
Because I've seen what he cando.
I've seen it, you know,especially like working at the
ministry and stuff.
Like I have seen some amazingthings.
I've seen some real hail Marymoments and stuff.
That's nothing short of amiracle, I've seen what God's
(21:53):
done in his life.
I've seen what God, I've seenit.
You know, so there is, there isno, no doubt, no questions.
I'm like, just give it to God.
Just give it to God.
We're good.
As long as he's the captain atthe wheel, I'm good.
You and I see with my son, I seewith my son every day how he's
(22:13):
growing and developing andlearning and things that they
may have thought that hewouldn't be able to do.
And you'll see like I post onFacebook about Nicholas all the
time and I'm like, look at God,look at God working in my baby.
You know, because he's all Igot, my relationship with God at
the end of the day is all I got.
And without him, none of thiswould be possible.
(22:37):
None of it.
Not my marriage, not Nicholas,not the fact that both of my dad
just turned 81 years old.
He's still mobile and stillliving on his own and still
working.
And the fact that him and mymother are both still here with
me and I have everything that Ionce prayed for.
I didn't know at the time it wasMatthew I was praying for.
(22:59):
It was Nicholas.
I was praying for, but.
All those tears were shed invain.
none (23:04):
Yeah.
You
Toni (23:04):
know, all that crying out and begging God and he heard me,
and I have everything that Iprayed for, so
Phil (23:11):
That's amazing.
Wow.
Yeah.
So, all right.
Lessons, Matt, over the yearsand all that you've been through
and seen, what are some of thekey lessons that you would pull
out and maybe share for thosethat are listening?
Matt (23:28):
Don't put yourself in an environment you're not
comfortable in.
Phil (23:31):
Yeah.
Don't put yourself in anenvironment you're not
comfortable in.
Matt (23:33):
Because
Phil (23:34):
if you're not comfortable, you make bad decisions.
Matt (23:36):
I don't know, say like you put yourself in a situation or
yeah.
Put yourself in a situation andyou're okay, and then something
happens and you're notcomfortable.
If you're not comfortable, yougotta leave.
none (23:47):
Yeah.
Matt (23:47):
Because then either something bad could happen or
the situation could turn bad foryou.
Phil (23:52):
Yeah.
There's an awareness piece tothat.
Like I think, I think all of us,God gives us the ability to
recognize that maybe that sixthsense, something's not right.
I'm not comfortable.
This is right.
This has a potential of.
Taking me in a wrong path, whatdo I do at my click?
It's just sometimes, either,number one, we're not aware, we
don't have that awareness or torecognize, okay, these are some
(24:14):
yellow flags, red flags.
Right.
I should be paying attention.
Matt (24:17):
Right.
And
Phil (24:17):
then maybe sometimes we just, we are aware and we just
don't care.
Matt (24:20):
Like, just be truthfully, be more aware of the,
Toni (24:25):
be mindful of the company you keep.
Yeah.
Pretty much is what I'm tryingto say.
That's huge.
I mean that's
Phil (24:30):
so, that really is like, as I hear people share their
stories so often it begins withhanging out with the people that
Yeah.
Really they shouldn't have beenhanging out with.
I mean, it, it reminds me of,uh, I dunno if you guys are
familiar with the story of theprophet Elisha.
He was coming out of a town andthere was this group of kids
that started making fun of him.
(24:51):
Mm-hmm.
Like they, I think the Biblerecords her talking, making fun
of him before being bald.
God, thou bald man.
Yeah.
There's making fun of him.
And he curses the children.
Right.
And the Bible says that eitherone or two, she bears come out
of the woods and kill thechildren.
And I, I think about that storyand I think probably not all the
kids were actually taking partin making fun of him,
Toni (25:12):
but they all, but there were some that
Phil (25:14):
were just hanging out with people they shouldn't have been
hanging out with and they gothit with the consequences.
Yeah.
Toni (25:21):
Like I remember one of our place, wrong time, one of our
leaders one time.
At one of our meetings had givenan analogy about rotten fruit
and how if it's in a bowl withother good fruit, eventually
it's gonna turn
Phil (25:35):
spreads fast.
Toni (25:36):
Yeah.
It's gonna turn that other fruitbad.
And it, that made me reallythink like, wow, you don't
really think about it.
It's really a lot of it is thecompany that you keep For sure.
Yeah.
Phil (25:46):
Which speaks to the wisdom of Matt's dad when he was like,
you're not going over there.
Toni (25:51):
You know, you surround yourself with positive people
who are chasing thatrelationship with God who are
successful and, I'll say, well,to do financially, you know.
it rubs off on you.
Yeah.
And suddenly you want that.
You, not that you have thatjealousy or, envy, but just it
Phil (26:10):
influences you.
Toni (26:11):
Yeah.
It influences you, it inspiresyou.
Like, I wanna do better, I wannabe better.
I wanna, you know.
Yeah.
So, but if you have, if you'resurrounded by people who are
always negative and alwaysgetting high and, you know, just
living that day to day, you'relike, oh all right, well this is
as good as it gets, you know?
Yeah.
Phil (26:31):
Uh, other key lessons,
Toni (26:32):
give up.
Don't give up.
Don't give up.
Because even at the darkesttime, even at your worst, at
your lowest, God really doeslove you.
He really does.
And he really does hear you.
And although one thing that Ihad to learn the hard way,
things aren't always gonnahappen on our time when we want
them to, when we think theyshould.
(26:52):
But there is a plan for you.
There is a plan for you.
He hasn't forsaken you.
He hasn't forgotten about you.
And you know, just keep going.
Keep going.
Don't give up because your timeis coming.
Your time is coming.
Matt (27:05):
it, one thing I've always said since being in prison and
stuff is if you wanna be better,you gotta do better.
none (27:11):
Yeah.
You know,
Matt (27:13):
so doing, doing better ain't go out here, going to do
the same thing I.
Go hang out with this person orthat person.
Phil (27:19):
So, uh, say that one more time.
If you wanna be better, youbetter.
If you
Matt (27:22):
wanna be better, you gotta do better.
You can't go out here andcontinue to do the same thing.
And it's fair to be a betterperson or get better results
without making a better choice.
Toni (27:32):
It's like the definition of insanity.
Matt (27:34):
Yeah.
Toni (27:34):
You know, you keep doing the same thing over and over
again, expecting things to turnout differently.
And when it comes to thosedemons, it's not going to, it's
never gonna end well, you'renever gonna have control of it.
You're never gonna be able totame that monkey on your back.
Matt (27:49):
And don't be afraid to ask for help.
That's one thing I never did isask for help.
And it just, it takes you so fardown the rabbit hole that you
can't see no other way.
Yeah.
Either death or prison.
And that's what I tell a fewpeople that I know that still do
drugs is like, man, you got oneor two choices.
You got a prison center, prisonsentence or a casket.
(28:12):
Choose your choice.
Toni (28:13):
Yeah.
Those streets don't love you.
Yeah.
Those streets don't.
Your family loves you.
Your family loves you, and theyneed you.
Jesus
Phil (28:22):
loves you.
Toni (28:23):
Jesus loves you.
Yes, he does.
Phil (28:25):
Okay.
Wow.
Any other key lessons you guyswould point out?
How about, how about marriagesuccess tips?
Just say, yes ma'am.
Feed him.
Toni (28:34):
Feed him.
Well make sure you know how tocook.
You know what I told my daughterwho's newly engaged and stuff,
marriage advice is like, Ialways try to help ask Matthew,
can I help you?
It's not always about I loveyou.
Yeah.
He knows I love him, but when Isay, can I help you?
It's like mentally, physically,you know, Matthew's very
(28:55):
prideful.
Matthew will not ask for help.
And I, that, that might be amale
Phil (28:59):
gender trait.
It is, but I'm a little bit ofthe same way too.
Toni (29:02):
You know, like I have a really bad habit of putting on
that superwoman cape andexhausting myself beyond repair
by the end of the night.
Yeah.
You know?
But, but can I help you?
Phil (29:14):
I love that because that essentially is love in action.
Yeah.
That's showing, and
Matt (29:20):
actions definitely speak louder than words.
And another thing is don't getangry and go to bed.
Tomorrow's not promised tonobody.
Yeah.
Or leave the house.
Don't leave the house whenyou're angry.
Don't go to bed angry.
Because you never know what'sgonna happen, and don't fight
and argue about it.
If you disagree and it turnsinto an argument, walk away,
calm down and come back and talklater.
Toni (29:40):
One thing I learned to do differently with Matthew than I
did in my previousrelationships, honestly if you
ever see me on social media, Iboast about Matthew all the
time.
How amazing.
How wonderful he is.
He's so, which he is, but Idon't take any of our dirty
laundry to social media eitheranymore, which is a big issue
(30:01):
that a lot of people anymore.
Anymore.
I don't, I've I learned thatlesson.
I'm a work in progress.
Matt (30:07):
I don't like drama.
I don't like, there's a lot oftruth in that.
So I don't like social media orthe world to know what I have
going on behind my closed doors.
If we have a issue, that issueis between me and her.
We need to sit down and talkabout it.
And if we can't without arguing,then we're gonna come back later
and talk about it.
Toni (30:23):
I mean, we've, we've even gone to counseling at the
Pastoral Institute, which theyare lifesavers over there, not
because she finally figured
Matt (30:33):
out she stays on the phone too much.
Toni (30:34):
Not because our marriage is bad.
We just have
Matt (30:38):
certain things that we need to learn how to work
through and how to make betterfor us.
Yeah.
Toni (30:44):
And that's where the, it's, it doesn't hurt to ask for
help because we wannacommunicate effectively and
efficiently because this is itfor us.
Phil (30:53):
You're in it for life.
This is no divorce.
No.
You are together permanently.
That's just like what God saidwe're supposed to be in know,
like one man, one woman forever.
Yeah.
Matt (31:03):
That's these things right here.
Phil (31:04):
Cell phones horrible.
They're worse.
Yeah.
They could get us in so manytrouble.
So much trouble drama.
Matt (31:09):
No, not only that.
There's a chance they made youwake up, you go to work, you
spend eight hours at work, youcome home, you gotta be in bed
to get a good night's sleep byjust say 10 o'clock.
So you got from what, fiveo'clock until 10 o'clock, which
is five hours of the day.
You either you cook dinner mosttime if you're a woman or even a
(31:29):
man, you got time to cookdinner.
Yeah, Matthew
Toni (31:32):
can cook.
Matt (31:33):
You got time to cook dinner and then eat.
Shower.
If you got kids, you got stuffto do with them.
But how much of that time areyou doing that on your phone?
Out of that five hours that yougot?
Yeah.
How many hours are you on thephone?
Toni (31:46):
We get so wrapped up in watching videos, like we'll just
be scrolling through watchingvideos and then it's like, dang,
we hadn't spent any timetogether.
You know?
Like you have to make yourpartner a priority.
Don't you have to.
Matt (32:01):
Don't spend all your time on your phone.
If you're gonna do anything onyour phone, get something that
you and your husband or yourwife or your boyfriend,
girlfriend, partner, whoever yougot.
Get something on there that cando together.
You can do together and learnsomething about your partner.
Like we have an app on our
Toni (32:18):
phone called Gottman Cards and they're like relationship
conversation starters.
They have helped us a lot.
Matt (32:26):
Wow.
Yeah.
Awesome.
You, you can ask your partner aquestion and let them answer it,
and then you answer it as well.
And it's a good conversationstarter because you're trying to
get to know stuff about them,but also at the same time they
get to know stuff about you.
Yeah.
And if that's what you wanna dois play on your phone, be on
your phone, do it together.
(32:47):
Yeah.
It's like, I'll go home and I'llthrow mine on the charger.
I don't care about that phone,but hers, she stuck over there
like,
Toni (32:53):
yeah.
And then when I'm at home it'slike, well, hold on.
Phil (32:55):
Yeah.
Somebody text.
That's a lot of, so you guyshave shared quite a bit of
really solid marriage advice.
Like first and foremost,beginning with the fact of when
you decide to be married, it'sfor life.
There's no consideration ofdivorce there.
You, there's, you're just,you're together.
Divorce.
And that comes from Genesis andthe, and just,
Toni (33:16):
but I believe too, when God is at the forefront of it on
air, it's completely like I'vebeen divorced.
Twice.
Matt (33:22):
Me too.
Toni (33:23):
He's been divorced twice.
In those other relationships.
God was not at the center of it.
He wasn't at the foundation.
It wasn't a, a godlyrelationship, so yeah, you could
say divorce is not an option.
That would be kind ofhypocritical of me because I
have been divorced twice andstuff.
But now you wanna
Phil (33:41):
do it God's way.
It's a
Toni (33:42):
completely different, like it was all my
Phil (33:45):
way, the, that, the wrong way.
But now it's God's way didn'twork.
Matt (33:49):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, if our always worked,we will still be with the first
person we was married
Phil (33:54):
to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I love that though.
It's because things just, theyturn out better when you do it
God's way.
Yeah, they just do.
Toni? (34:00):
For sure.
Phil (34:01):
There's a crazy article in the Wall Street Journal about a
year ago they had done someresearch and it was, the Federal
Reserve was stumped.
The Wall Street Journal.
They were like, we can't figurethis out.
Right?
And, and it was just simplylooking at net worth.
They looked at it, the net worthof a single person, the average
in the country, about$6,000.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Net worth of two people livingtogether.
(34:21):
Just a male female.
Toni? (34:23):
Right.
Phil (34:23):
Essentially like a married relationship, everything,
they're just not technicallymarried.
Toni? (34:29):
Right.
Phil (34:29):
And their net worth was about 16,000, 17,000.
And then they looked at samescenario, been together for the
same number of same amount oftime living together, but two
married individuals, their networth worth was$64,000 on
average.
And the only difference wasbeing married.
There's so much that goes intothe mindset, the like, so much,
(34:52):
and it just, it's fascinating.
Toni (34:53):
My whole perception, and worldly views and stuff has
changed dramatically, incomparison to where I was just
10 years ago.
Yeah.
And it's so much better.
Phil (35:04):
I love your phrase, can I help you?
How can I help you?
Can I help you?
I mean, that's, I think that'shuge.
Those are probably the three
Toni (35:10):
most important words, you know?
Wow.
Because especially for a man,they, they men take the weight
of the world on their shoulders,the weight of their family, the
weight of their careers.
I mean, not to say that womendon't, but men carry a lot more
burdens I think, that gounspoken, so as long as he knows
(35:31):
like, Hey, I'm here.
I got you.
Whatever you need, you know, wedo this together.
That's, that's our thing.
It's us against the world.
Matt (35:39):
That's right.
You gotta do it together, man.
You can't just, you can't go anddo something to expect your
partner or whoever you're withto be like, okay, I got you.
No, you gotta do it together.
And you gotta know that you'redoing it together with the help
of the other one.
Because if you get out there andyou try to swim on your own and
nobody's there to help you,drown.
Yeah.
and trust your partner.
(35:59):
Yeah.
Trust them.
Believe in them and respect.
Awesome.
Respect is a big thing in ourhousehold.
Like if you can't respect theother one, then why are you even
talking?
Phil (36:10):
Yeah.
That's so good.
Craziest story ever from yourpast.
Toni (36:17):
Yeah, we can't talk about that.
You can share that.
You can share.
Oh, you can share, yeah.
Okay.
Craziest.
Phil (36:23):
So, yeah, I guess there's some stuff you couldn't really
share, but
Toni (36:25):
Yeah.
There's, or could
Phil (36:26):
you share it in a, in a, uh, PG manner and not, uh,
probably not.
So
Toni (36:31):
I was living in North Carolina one time and I was
about 15 years old.
I had left a party and I wascompletely intoxicated and
inebriated and decided at twoo'clock in the morning, I was
going to walk the railroadtracks home.
And in my drunken stupor, Iactually came face to face with
(36:55):
a moose.
Wow.
A wild moose.
And he proceeded to chase medown the railroad tracks.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was kind of crazy.
One time we hit a deer in thecar and we got out of the car to
check and make sure the deerwas, whether it was alive or
dead, and the deer jumped up andchased us around the car back
(37:15):
in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a couple of them thatwas, uh,
Phil (37:18):
wow.
Toni (37:19):
Pretty gnarly.
Matt, you ever
Phil (37:21):
been chased by an animal?
no.
Toni (37:22):
You know, I went to Canada one time, Montreal, Quebec,
Canada, and we were at thisplace called Mount Royale.
And in, as you're walking outthe exit, which is outdoors,
there's all these magnolia treesand stuff, and there are
hundreds of swirls and theyliterally will chase you.
Wow.
Right out of the park.
(37:43):
Yeah.
They are not afraid of humans.
Sounds like a horror movie.
It is.
It's kind of, it's like thebirds, you know, the Alfred
Hitchcock, the birds.
It is, it's kind of scary.
Yeah.
All my crazy stories somehowinvolve animals.
Phil (37:55):
Do you guys have animals in the house?
Matt (37:56):
We have a rescue pit that we rescue.
She comes in at nighttime?
Yeah, she has her own bed and sorescue and like daytime, she
stay outside.
I have my
Toni (38:08):
cat that I've had probably, she's Bravo's about
nine years old now.
And then my mom has a kitten,well it's a cat now, but it's a
kitten that I actually rescuedfrom out in front of Safe House.
Wow.
When I first started workinghere, it was pouring down rain
and this little kitten wasbehind the garbage cans and you
should have never brought it inat the front engine to Safe
House and a cat is Hudson.
(38:30):
Tim Hudson had brought it out acan of tuna fish and I was like,
Hey, I'm gonna take lunch guys.
And I grabbed the kitten and Ithrew it in my car and drove it
home to my mom.
Yeah, my mom still has it.
Wow.
Phil (38:41):
You mentioned the cat at Safe House.
Mm-hmm.
So, and I don't think we'vetalked about this, but you're
the bookkeeper for Safe House.
I
Toni (38:46):
am bookkeeper administrator, personal
assistant.
Phil (38:51):
Awesome.
Yeah.
Doing a lot of good things.
Yeah.
Toni (38:53):
And it's crazy too, and this is another way I've seen
God intervene.
This was a really big moment inmy life because I had had
Nicholas and I was looking forjust something part-time to get
myself out of the house like.
Paw Patrol and Mickey MouseClubhouse just were not cutting
me, driving me crazy anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I needed some adult interaction.
I needed to talk to somebody whowas gonna talk back.
(39:16):
So my friend Helen, who wasworking at Safe House at the
time, um, she was like, Hey,they're looking for somebody to
run the front desk at SafeHouse, you know, she was like,
if you wanna just get out of thehouse, blah, blah, blah,
whatever.
Okay.
So I applied for the job.
I went and met with Jamie Lee,and we had a really great
(39:36):
interview.
Um, we spoke like I had knownher my entire life, you know, I
told her about my past, myeducation, my experience and she
was like, Tony, I really thinkyou're just overqualified for
the job.
She was like, you're not gonnalike it, you know?
She was like, the, the payprobably is substandard compared
(39:57):
to what you're used to.
And I was like, I really don'tcare.
Like, I just, she was like,well, we're looking for a
part-time bookkeeper.
And I like perked up.
And I was like, really?
And so I hung around Safe Houseand I met with Neil that day and
it was just like, yeah, when canyou start, you know?
Wow.
So July 7th has been two yearsthat I've been with the company
(40:20):
now, and I've grown my positionand, shown them what I could do.
And it's just it was a perfect,like God was working in that
moment.
Wow.
Because he knew like.
Yeah, you're not gonna be at thefront desk.
You there?
I have a bigger purpose for you.
Awesome.
I love that.
That's really cool.
Phil (40:39):
Last thoughts that you wanna share?
Anything Matt?
Toni (40:42):
No.
You don't have anything?
Matt (40:44):
I'm
Phil (40:44):
hungry.
Toni (40:45):
Your money's hungry.
All right.
Hey, I mean it.
Yeah,
Phil (40:48):
It's lunchtime.
Yeah.
No, thank you.
Any last thoughts from you,Tony?
Toni (40:51):
Thank you for this opportunity.
You know, this is, you know,when you get it all out, it's
therapeutic, you know, andsometimes you talk about stuff
or you remember stuff thatyou've put in the back of your
mind.
And I know during thisinterview, I, you've seen me sit
here and shed a couple tears andI'm just, I'm so proud of where
we were and where we are andwhere we're going and in our
(41:15):
careers.
Like, once you, you have thatfoundation, like everything just
falls into place and that'sawesome.
Life is not perfect.
We struggle.
We live paycheck to paychecksome days, you know, we don't
know how we're gonna put gas inthe car during those off weeks,
but life is good.
Life is, and nothing
Matt (41:33):
when you get to the good part of life, don't forget where
you came from.
Yeah.
You forget where you came from.
You get, as they say, a bighead.
Stay humble.
none (41:41):
Yeah.
Phil (41:42):
That's a good last word.
You guys have an amazing story,like each of you individually
and the way that God has broughtyour lives together.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you.
Thanks for having us.
It's been an encouragement to meand, um, just, yeah, it's been
awesome.
You guys mind if I close this ina word of prayer?
No, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Lord, thank you for your grace.
(42:02):
Thank you for Matt.
Thank you for Tony.
Thank you for how you haveworked over the years and their
lives in so many different ways.
Lord, I just pray your blessingupon their marriage, their
family, their future.
I pray for Nicholas Lord blessand guide him, and I know you've
got great plans for his life.
(42:24):
Lord, give Tony wisdom and Mattwisdom.
Help them to be strong in theirlove and just to stay true to
what they know is right what youteach in your word.
Lord, just help Matt in hisjourney of faith.
Father, help him, uh, with thequestions that he's still
facing, just to lead him Lordand to a, a place where he can
(42:47):
just totally surrender to you.
Thank you for the miraclesyou've done in their lives, and
thank you for the great thingsthat you have planned for their
future.
In Jesus name I pray, amen.
Amen.
Phil Shuler (43:00):
We look forward to being with you again next week
as we share another testimonyabout the power and the goodness
of God to change lives throughSafe House Ministries.
if you are someone listening tothis podcast that loves to hear
these stories of the greatthings that God is doing in
changing people's lives for thebetter, and if you would like to
be a part of that work, pleasereach out to us You can reach us
(43:23):
at 2101 Hamilton Road, Columbus,Georgia, 31,904.
You can call us at seven oh sixthree two two.
3 7, 7 3, or you can email us atinfo@safehouse-ministries.com.
Microphone (Samson Q2U Mi (43:38):
Thank you so much for being with us
this week for the renew restoreand rejoice podcast of safe
house ministries, we pray thatGod will bless you this week.
And we look forward to havingyou back with us again next week
for a new episode.
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