September 19, 2024 • 51 mins
Welcome back to Detroit: Become Human - in part five, all three characters intersect at Jericho and scramble to control their fates. While Markus and surviving members of Jericho make one last desperate attempt to gain freedom, Kara faces difficult odds trying to keep Alice safe, and Connor must finally pick a side. Don't forget to watch or play along - gameplay is posted weekly on our YouTube channel where we also have new video episodes! You can also find us on our website, Instagram, Twitter, and Reddit. Please consider supporting Eggy Toast here if you enjoyed the music in this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
In this episode, we almost murder somebody over a mitten.
(00:03):
I have to restart that because my voice cracked so hard.
I was gonna say, let's keep it.
So hard.
And so long as somebody...
I couldn't even like stop the word.
It just kept going.
It sounds like the beginning of a Queen song.
We almost murder somebody over a mitten.
I guess we're getting a Heavy Rain movie in 2038?
(00:26):
And why'd she stop running?
Thank you for coming back from our replay reviews.
My name is Leah.
And my name is Cathy.
We are two friends who are here to replay, review,
and analyze your favorite video games.
And since Cathy has never seen the games before,
it helps me view them through her fresh eyes,
almost like I'm discovering them again for the first time.
We hope it'll be a similar experience for you.
(00:53):
November 9th, 413 PM.
This is about four hours after Marcus's demonstration
that we saw in the last episode.
Connor locates Amanda in the garden.
It's cold.
We've seen the weather change multiple times.
I'm curious if that has anything to do with
the decisions that we make.
(01:14):
Like in this instance,
he very tentatively steps on the frozen pond
and we see him multiple times, like looking down at his feet.
Is he literally on thin ice with Amanda right now?
Is this what we're seeing?
That's a really good analogy.
Because he looks cautious when he first steps on it.
(01:34):
So Amanda gets right to it.
She says that the country is on the verge of a civil war
and about the deviants,
humans have no choice but to destroy them.
Amanda is disappointed in Connor
for not getting information out of Kamsky.
So he must have designed Amanda, right?
(01:55):
Kamsky must have designed Amanda.
So I'm just confused on Amanda's character.
How does she know all this information,
whether she's an android or a human?
I don't think she's android or a human.
In that picture we learned she's dead, right?
I think she's just like the processing system.
Okay, which would make sense.
(02:16):
That's the impression that I get.
But Connor seems mad that I feel like he thinks she lied to him.
Are you getting the sense that there's lots of tension between these two right now?
Definitely.
He used to lean into her more than Hank,
but now the rules have reversed that he trusts Hank more than Amanda.
(02:36):
Continuing on this tension, Connor says,
I'm not a unique model, am I?
I think it's at this point where he realizes that he's about to be replaced.
He knows that Amanda knows he didn't shoot the girl at Kamsky's
and he knows he's on the verge of becoming a human.
He's on the verge of becoming a deviant.
He's finally starting to be worried enough that he needs to change the way he's approaching things.
(03:04):
But this just is the most heated exchange we've seen between them so far.
Amanda asked Connor if he's experienced anything unusual recently.
Any doubts or conflicts?
Do you feel anything for these deviants?
Or for Lieutenant Anderson?
I'm beginning to have thoughts that are not part of my program.
(03:31):
Maybe I've been compromised too.
Then this leads to a big drop in relationship.
He's no longer trusted by Amanda.
They're now neutral.
I feel like it needed to happen to progress the game though.
And I'm surprised it took a while.
It took so long for Connor's relationship with Amanda to go south.
(03:54):
I didn't feel like lying to her was the right move because she seems to already know something's up.
Otherwise, she wouldn't even be asking this question.
Again, if Amanda is a processing system, there is no way to win her.
I think it was in the last episode when Hank asks,
how do I know you're not a deviant?
And Connor says, I self-test regularly.
Do you think Amanda is the self-testing that he's referencing?
(04:19):
I don't think it's Amanda being the self-testing,
but it's the programming that Amanda probably is part of.
I think Amanda's objective is kind of the unknown
because that would go into why is she asking him questions about his current state.
So Connor rejoins the real world to see Hank being unassigned to the deviancy case.
(04:42):
As the FBI is now taking over.
The way he looks at Hank is just perfect, but Hank is not happy.
And I wrote in my notes, the many faces of Hank
face throughout this scene is pristine.
It's really good.
Also, I really like that Hank is saying we
(05:04):
because that just means that Connor is actually his partner now.
He's wormed his way into Hank.
At the end of the interaction, the captain has decided
they're off the case and Connor's going to have to go back to cyber life.
Hank walks away and Connor follows him to his desk where he insists that they can solve the case.
He says that he'll be sent back to cyber life and deactivated to find out why he failed.
(05:28):
So in this point where Hank is having a conversation with Connor,
just talking about how they have to continue with this case,
I love how Hank goes, what if we're on the wrong side?
I love the vulnerability that he's showing.
He's considering what if everything he's been fighting for is wrong.
This moment solidifies his character arc and the growth,
(05:49):
his acceptance of Connor being an android and being his partner
when he was so reluctant to have him in the earlier parts.
I just love this moment.
I do too.
And I find Connor's response to be equally as fascinating
because we know he's closer to deviancy than he ever has been,
(06:10):
but he still says when the deviance rise up, there will be chaos and we could have stopped it.
Connor has a point and this is a big issue I have with this game is
the lack of flexibility on the view of deviance.
I think it's too two-sided.
It is.
(06:31):
I think we need to clarify what exactly is going on.
What exactly, which side is Connor falling on?
Is he partially just worried about Cyberlife then taking him because he failed his mission?
Is he freaking out because harm can come to Hank and humans?
Or just he doesn't agree that androids should be deviance?
(06:56):
I'm not exactly sure what side and what Connor is trying to fight for.
We know he has a mission, but I don't think he's not prioritizing that mission anymore.
So I don't know what he's fighting for.
Yeah, this is one of my notes is why is he so set on solving this still?
And my question is to fulfill his mission or to save himself?
(07:18):
Maybe it's both because he does say if I don't solve this case, Cyberlife will destroy me.
So I think it's both.
I think it's so ingrained in his system to solve the case,
but he also has enough software instability at this point to not want to be destroyed.
But they are interrupted when they spot Perkins arriving
(07:40):
and Connor's upset he knows that if the FBI takes their evidence, they'll never solve the case.
He thinks he can find the answer, but Hank has to buy him some time.
Hank agrees and picks a fight with Perkins, which is great.
And while Connor is making his way to the evidence room, Gavin sees him and
the choice to just ignore him and keep going is perhaps the single most satisfying thing
(08:04):
in this entire game.
I love how Gavin is like a bug that you just want to squish beneath your shoes.
He's just always there.
I'm glad I don't think I chose him as my gas because he is so annoying.
In the evidence room, Connor reactivates and tricks the blue haired Tracy in order to obtain the location of Jericho.
(08:31):
Him doing this is like its peak detective Connor.
It's ruthless, but I love that it's ruthless.
It's also him being very desperate to figure things out before he runs out of time.
He's kind of at fault right now from what Amanda is saying that you didn't shoot her
when you should have shot her.
You should have been more ruthless.
So right after he discovers this, Gavin arrives pointing a gun at Connor.
(08:56):
And then after a fight, Connor is able to get away.
But not long after Perkins arrives to find Gavin passed out on the floor.
And they sound the alarm, but Connor's already on his way out.
But I love how Perkins walks straight past Gavin on the floor and just goes,
looks like somebody's been going through the evidence.
He probably is annoyed by Gavin too.
(09:17):
November 9th, 934 PM.
In the car, we learn on the news that all androids are being turned over to the authorities
and many industries are being affected, including the military.
So I don't know if that's part of like the whole Arctic sub story we keep hearing about.
Maybe now we're going to lose World War III.
(09:39):
Soon Rose pulls over and instructs them the rest of the way to Jericho.
And she tells them to find Marcus.
He'll help them get on the bus.
We quickly cut back to Connor, who is following the same path to Jericho that Marcus did earlier.
And he's in street clothes now.
And I don't like it.
I actually like it.
(09:59):
I really like him in this outfit so much more than before.
I hate the beanie, specifically.
I like that.
I hate it.
If you told me like KS between this one or him in his like Android version, I would have chose him.
Nonsense.
As a caduceus.
He's so much better in a beanie.
(10:21):
We need a poll.
We need a poll.
Back to Kara.
They make it to Jericho, which has vastly improved its resources since we last saw it.
And then Kara just does not want to talk to Luther about Alice.
He tries again to talk to her and she blows him off again.
It's so annoying because we know Kara really cares for Alice, yet any information pertaining to her,
(10:49):
she's ignoring it.
So it makes no sense.
Feels so bad for Luther.
He's trying so hard.
Luther is such a great person.
Quickly back to Connor again.
He's arrived at Jericho and is trying to locate Marcus.
And then at some point as he's exploring, Lucy catches him and says, you're lost.
You're looking for something.
You're looking for yourself.
(11:10):
And then she just walks away and leaves him with that.
It's so generic, though.
It can apply to anyone.
I feel like she could have been cool and they just blew it with her.
Now back to Kara.
She's able to find Marcus and asks for help getting passports.
Marcus suggests that they stay at Jericho as it's dangerous outside, but he's still assigned to her.
(11:31):
He's still assigning someone to make them passports.
At the start of their interaction, Kara says that she's here with a little girl and another android.
And Marcus says, you know humans hate us.
Basically, why are you helping her?
I don't understand his viewpoint towards the humans.
We understand how much she wants to advocate for demons to have their own life,
(11:55):
but we never really saw his hatred.
Maybe for Leo?
But he spent so much time with Carl and he sees the goodness in people.
And yeah, maybe seeing all the news reports of just like humans.
And it's mostly the army who's shooting deviants and androids.
But where is this hate coming from?
There's no reason for Marcus to take so much offense to humans at this point, especially when it's a little girl.
(12:24):
And it especially just doesn't track with the pacifist's playthrough with him.
We've chosen all of the non-violent options and the dialogue options.
Why would he want to have a dialogue if he knows that they hate them?
It just doesn't make sense with his strategy.
This line just doesn't make sense.
(12:45):
After this interaction, Kara makes her way back to Alice,
but along the way she spots an identical child who turns out to be an android.
Luther approaches her and says,
You knew from the beginning.
You just didn't want to see it.
She wanted a mom and you wanted someone to care for.
(13:07):
So we see that Kara at one point saw the pamphlet for Alice's android model in Todd's house.
Why? Why the twist?
Okay, I was about to say that.
What is the purpose of making Alice an android?
It doesn't change the fact that Kara as an android has feelings and that's what pushes her to be a deviant.
(13:33):
Because Alice's character arc is so shallow as well.
There is no need to make her a deviant or a human.
It's just so unnecessary.
And also, then why does Alice exist?
I don't think Todd or obviously Todd's wife never wanted Alice,
otherwise she would have taken Alice with her during when she left, right?
(13:57):
Maybe I'm shallow.
I just or I'm slow at this.
I don't understand why this is even relevant or important.
So addressing one of the things you mentioned.
In the scene where we're looking in Alice's keepsake box, there's a picture of the family.
And I'm like almost certain that it's not Alice in that picture.
(14:20):
It's a like real life little girl.
Oh, I think what happened is they probably lost their daughter and Alice is the like replacement.
You know what I mean?
Oh, that would make sense.
Just real quickly what Luther finishes out.
He's saying forgetting who you already become, what someone needs you to be.
(14:42):
Maybe that's what it means to be alive.
And I get it.
But at the same time, if we look at these two androids, right?
Alice is designed to be a child, someone that needs to be mothered as Luther says,
and Kara is designed to be a caretaker.
And this is where I get in question, are they really free?
(15:02):
Or is their bond just part of their programs?
What if her need to protect Kara and go up against Todd was part of her programming?
Maybe she was always programmed to prioritize that.
So then yes, I feel like they have no free will.
(15:23):
It does the exact opposite of what I think it wants to do.
It wants us to be like, oh, I'm going to be a child.
It wants us to be like, oh, no.
But she still loves her.
She's still choosing to love her.
But was it ever even a choice?
And maybe that is the question that Kara is now having to deal with is,
(15:43):
was it ever even a choice that I love her?
I think the more intriguing question is, is Alice deviant?
Because if she's not, then is her love truly real for Kara?
No, because she seems pretty whiny and...
Don't steal the coke, Kara.
It's not ours.
(16:03):
You want me to knock them down?
Knock them down?
I know you all wanted to hear me say it again.
Yeah, I do.
Well, I think we'll probably come back to this topic.
Should we move on to scene three for now?
So moving on, Marcus and the Inner Circle are having a difficult conversation
dealing with the fallout of their actions.
And this again, I wrote in all caps, why is his baseline anger?
(16:30):
I don't get it.
I don't know how many times I'm going to say that.
Too many.
But by the end of the conversation, Marcus decides he needs to go talk to the humans
on his own in a final effort to protect his people.
Well, Marcus's mood swing is really throwing me off.
If the game was designed for Marcus to choose anger, you should have never been able to
(16:52):
choose anger.
You should have never given us the option to choose such a calm, pacifist approach to
it only when our cutscenes are going to go back to him being angry.
And that just doesn't make a consistent storyline or personality for the character.
I just feel like it's sloppy writing if you're going to push us to go for violence this entire
(17:14):
time and make all the cutscenes about anger being his baseline.
I think it's extra confusing because his demeanor seems sad, if anything.
He seems dejected, but everything he says is geared towards anger.
So I think it just doesn't math out.
Because if you know humans hate you, why are you choosing peaceful protests?
(17:36):
If that's what you're saying, then don't give us option to do a peaceful protest.
Right.
Or choosing peaceful should mean that those lines no longer exist for this character.
But North stays behind.
Okay.
What's up with her outfit changes?
Like how many outfits does this woman need?
I don't know.
Too many.
So she stays behind to talk to Marcus.
(17:58):
She has access to a dirty bomb and wants Marcus to use it, but he refuses.
I have in my note, but I already know the answer because of your reaction.
Is Kathy okay with the kiss this time?
No.
I wish you recorded me.
I wish you recorded my reaction.
I was so mad at you.
(18:19):
I just need to stop anticipating what you're going to want and just do what I'm going to do.
Yeah.
It was so annoying.
I wish Marcus rejected her because I feel like that's more fitting with the storyline
in his character.
Zero for two for David Cage.
This is at least better.
At least we're not naked on a dingy motel room floor while our son slowly dies.
(18:45):
Exactly.
So as North leaves, we see Connor snooping in the background and he's quickly transported
back to Amanda.
She congratulates him and asks him to bring Marcus in alive.
My feelings about this game have changed significantly since my very first playthrough.
And in this scene specifically, I liked it a lot the first time, but I now feel like it does
(19:12):
just a tremendous disservice to Connor's character.
On one hand, I like that Marcus convinces him to be deviant rather than the touch conversion.
Or it's telepathic powers now.
Right.
And again, why is he not using that on Connor?
Like, it would be so easy.
But on the other hand, I really think Hank should be the one that convinces him ultimately
(19:34):
to become deviant because that relationship is really what pushes Connor to continue to choose
deviant thoughts and actions.
So I feel kind of robbed in that relationship.
Yeah, that's such a really good point.
Yeah.
Because who is Marcus to tell Connor who he is?
I don't like the feeling that Marcus has as sort of this god almost, about you don't know
(20:00):
who you are and you need to choose a side and all this.
Like, it makes me dislike Marcus a little bit in this scene.
Okay.
I'm glad you said that because that's when I kind of...
It's not like I don't like Marcus.
I just think it was very out of character for Marcus.
I don't like Marcus, I just think it was very out of character for Marcus. I think he would be like,
(20:24):
okay, just take me in and just shoot me kind of situation.
I don't think Marcus had that kind of sway on Connor to get him to be a deviant.
But I know you want to say something.
Oh, I was just gonna...
What you just said, Marcus's plan as of now is to go by himself to go talk to the humans.
Connor wants to take him in alive.
What's the problem?
(20:45):
What's the problem?
That is true.
There's no disconnect here.
They want the same things.
Yeah.
But okay, so by the end of the conversation, Connor has become a deviant and joins Jericho.
And I like Connor being deviant, but I wanted him to pick it himself.
And I really hate that it feels like Marcus had to convince him to become deviant.
(21:06):
Because I think at this point in the game,
Connor already knows that he's well on his way to being deviant.
And I just don't think that Marcus would be the thing.
Yeah.
That would push him.
A better writing situation would either be he sees just something to push him outside of the code.
Because that's what Marcus did.
(21:28):
That's what Kara did to break the fourth wall kind of situation.
So why is Connor not experiencing that?
And I think you're hitting right on the head my issue with the decision earlier in the game of
save Hank or go after the deviant.
That's the kind of situation where Connor would become deviant to save Hank.
That choice should be later in the game after our relationship has improved with Hank.
(21:53):
And then we have the option to abandon the mission to save Hank, which that would equal deviancy.
Yes, I know.
Now I understand what you meant when you said you didn't like their relationship
growing so quickly at that time.
And it makes sense that they should have moved that scene here.
Because they already had a good groundwork for the relationship.
(22:14):
This is the right place for it.
Oh, man, David, you should have consulted you and you and I.
Honestly, I think that about a lot of things.
But Connor does warn them that the humans are about to attack Jericho.
And we also see that Amanda is now betrayed.
And I have an issue like I understand Connor warning them that the humans are about to attack.
(22:37):
I get that.
But I feel like he flips so fast into being like, I am deviant and my mission was nothing.
Something about it feels too severe.
But then back to Kara, Alice, and Luther, they make a run for it.
Well, Marcus decides that they have to blow up Jericho.
Marcus makes his way to the explosive, saving as many deviants along the way as he can.
(23:02):
Kara chooses to help Luther rather than leave him behind when he gets shot.
They all make it to a side room, but Luther forces them to go on without him.
Luther's so green.
He would just give him the KFC now, Kathy.
Yeah, I actually already wrote it down on my notes that KFC is Luther.
So we know.
(23:23):
Come on.
Yeah, there's no point in doing that.
OK, so I should send you a screenshot.
So yeah, I already established the KFC is Luther.
So Kara and Alice do very narrowly escape Jericho after playing dead.
And Marcus arrives at the explosives and activates them before making a run for it.
(23:44):
And then how?
OK, so the rest of the Inner Circle plus Connor ran out ahead of Marcus while he ran
to the hold to go set off the explosives.
But somehow he catches up to them.
And then for some reason, North just decides to stop running
and fall behind the rest of the group and get shot at.
I don't understand why you saved her, Leah.
(24:06):
Well, it went against everything I wanted to do.
And then this like hunk of metal.
We'll see this hunk of metal, this exact hunk of metal everywhere.
And it's always a shield.
Right?
Anyway, it seems like they all escape.
And that's the end of scene three.
(24:27):
I think it's really funny that Simon totally wanted to seek revenge and just let North die.
I think it's time I start trusting or doing what I want to do in these playthroughs.
I kind of want you to be more vengeful and I want you to be more bloodthirsty.
I wanted to.
OK, so scene four.
(24:50):
November 10th, 417 p.m.
It's the next day and Marcus visits Carl's grave.
And he says to Carl, I was happy and I didn't even know it.
Finally, you admit it.
So then why do you see yourself as a slave?
(25:10):
Why have you mentioned that multiple times?
You liked your android life.
You could smile.
You did smile.
You were allowed to stand tall, Marcus.
You were allowed to stand tall, Marcus.
The character arc is really flimsy.
We needed more of this moment.
(25:32):
We needed more of this of him reminiscing on Carl and being unsure of what he should do.
We missed out a lot because it really humanizes Marcus.
And I feel like a lot of the scenes we see of him are like, he's so just angry.
And on this mission that he doesn't even seem human.
He just seems one track mind.
(25:53):
It's basically Connor, but with a different mission.
And then here is a big one of the main issues that I have with this game.
And it goes back to the Alice Kara thing that we were just talking about.
It seems like the game wants us to have human android positive relationships,
(26:15):
but then they just take them away from us.
Alice and Kara, we thought that was an android and a human.
Just kidding.
Alice is an android.
And then with Marcus and Carl, we see that's a positive relationship.
That's his father figure, but then he calls himself a slave.
The only salvation for this theme is Connor and Hank, but even that one has issues
(26:39):
because it seems like both of them flip and just go 100% against the humans.
But I don't understand why there's no middle ground of humans and androids can just coexist.
I don't understand that either.
I think the reason why they're making so many flips is they want to be like, haha,
we got you, but it's not doing that for us.
(27:00):
I think if maybe I was 14 and playing this game, I would be like, oh wow, that totally
caught me off guard.
But I think if you do a deep dive to this, you'll realize there's a lot of things that
you realize there's a lot of flaws in it.
Let's quickly finish this out.
So as he's walking away, Leo walks by and they just look at each other.
(27:25):
And I can't believe I asked this because there's no way that Leo has this depth to him.
But he said, does Leo feel responsible for Marcus's uprising?
I don't know.
I just think that Leo probably is too shell and too self-absorbed to think about anything
besides himself.
I feel like he's just going to Carl's grave to like, I don't know, try to find some art.
(27:47):
See if there's any jewelry.
Try to steal the grave rob a little bit.
At their new hideout, Marcus checks in on everybody.
We've seen...
So I swear we've seen Simon walk more after the leg incident than before.
(28:08):
So true.
It's too true.
And I edited the video episode for the part where they have to abandon him on the roof.
And it does show him crawling away speedily.
And so why could he not speedily wiggle to the edge of the building with a parachute on?
(28:30):
Yes, he crawls away.
And I feel like people could maybe call us out for that.
You didn't notice him crawling away.
Sure.
But it doesn't change the fact that he could have crawled just as fast to the edge of the building.
And it doesn't change the fact that he can suddenly walk again.
And then when Marcus talks to Connor, he's remorseful and guilty, which I understand.
And he tells Marcus that he can get access to Cyberlife, to the assembly plant, and wake up more
(28:55):
androids.
But then he says, I was stupid.
I should have guessed they were using me.
I think my main issue is that do they not realize they're fighting the saint?
They're on the same side of the war.
That's what's confusing me.
And you know that doing this, you're going to have to sacrifice a lot of people.
So where's this guilt coming from?
(29:16):
The very first time we meet Connor, what's he doing?
He's saving a life that's being threatened by a deviant.
And so I feel like Connor as a character should understand
sometimes deviants are dangerous.
And so I don't think it's fair for him to be like, I was stupid.
Because that's not the full story.
(29:37):
At the end of the interaction, Marcus decides to trust him.
And then he stands up to address his people, telling them that he's chosen a demonstration
over a revolution.
He's basically counting on the humanity of humans.
And this is the second, to me, core issue with this game.
Is I feel like the game is sort of telling us Cyberlife and humans are the same thing.
(30:03):
To me, Cyberlife does not equal humans.
We see that the humans have a fair public opinion.
They have empathy for the androids.
We see characters like Hank, like Carl, like Rose that empathize with the androids.
It's not the humans, it's Cyberlife.
That's the villain of the game, in my opinion.
And I feel like the deviants don't see that and they totally misunderstand that.
(30:27):
And I just don't think it's fair that the game makes us choose
deviants or humans when it should be deviants or Cyberlife.
And they never get the blame, which we'll see later when there's more of that political
conversation.
They never talk anything bad about Cyberlife, which is very confusing.
(30:47):
And after taking all the deviants and stealing them and converting them,
Cyberlife still hasn't said anything.
So I'm confused about Cyberlife's role in this, as if they're willing to just sit back
and watch the world burn or if they are just like too scared that they made a mistake and
(31:09):
they're just going to cower behind everything.
I promise I like this game, but it has issues.
Anything else on scene four?
I do wish that the timeline would have been different of when Connor becomes a deviant
and his interaction, because Connor and Marcus do make a good team.
(31:32):
And I'm kind of sad that we don't get to see that prolonged because I think something
of more substance and value could have come to this game had the timeline been a bit better.
What I want to see or what I would have wanted to see, and we almost get it, is yes, him
becoming a deviant earlier in this moment that we just saw with Hank of are we on the
(31:56):
wrong side?
I wanted to see that happen earlier and have the two of them without the resources of the
police department without Cyberlife.
Take down Cyberlife.
That would be the best resolution to this game is a human and an android working
together to take down the company that's causing all of this.
(32:19):
Scene five.
It's November 10th, 924 PM.
President Warren makes an announcement and answers some questions.
All androids must be handed over and they are to be destroyed at camps.
Someone asks what's going to happen to Cyberlife and she responds, I won't address any other
questions until we've dealt with the android question.
(32:41):
Which I don't understand if androids and deviants are part of Cyberlife, why won't you work
with Cyberlife first?
Why are you taking matters into your own hand and just grouping all androids as deviants
and then trying to neutralize quote unquote the deviants?
Why is the president also speaking so weird?
There is a national curfew, civilian movement is being strictly controlled.
(33:07):
He's speaking like an android.
Oh plot twist.
But then the guy that asked this question, I am convinced it's the same voice actor for
Scott Shelby in Heavy Rain.
It's especially when he says definitively.
Okay get ready.
(33:28):
What's going to happen to Cyberlife?
Will androids be banned definitively?
Yeah.
I also feel like I might hear his voice somewhere else too.
But we're not there yet.
So Connor makes his way into the assembly plant but he's being escorted and he has to
get to the proper floor and in order to do so he has to neutralize the guards in the
(33:48):
elevator.
I'm a bit confused on how they don't already know that he can't be trusted.
Especially with all their communication being just so immediate.
I don't understand that either.
So Connor does demolish the guards and then we're quickly back to Kara.
She and Alice are sneaking their way through the city on a time crunch to get to the bus
(34:10):
station and we walk past a movie theater and come on.
Not it saying Heavy Rain on the marquee.
Did it say that?
Yeah.
How many times are they going to reference this game?
Too frequent.
Too frequently.
He's in love with Heavy Rain.
(34:32):
At one point they see Luther being held at gunpoint and it appears that they may be playing
to execute him and another android so they decide to save him.
Reunited the three of them continue on.
The guard that they run into here too, the one that they almost shoot over the mitten,
he sounds kind of like Scott Shelby too.
So I don't know.
I might be imagining it but there's no way they almost shot this guy over a dropped mitten.
(34:57):
It's extreme too.
I mean you're expecting so much when he's like hold on and then he just hands out this
thing looks like a dirty sock.
So anti-climactic.
Well what's annoying is that all this time Alice could have just told Kara says hey can
(35:17):
you switch off my my body temperature sensory thing?
She could have been okay without the coat if she just switched that off but we only
wait until now.
Well that makes me wonder if she's not a deviant.
Maybe she doesn't know she has that setting.
All right it's 10 56 p.m.
Marcus's demonstration is now being covered by the news.
(35:39):
He and his people march towards one of the camps and the authorities say to surrender
or they will open fire.
Public opinion goes up and then because of the media coverage the authorities decide
to hold fire.
It's too late for that.
And this is another hint about like it's not humans.
Humans are saving your life in this situation Marcus because public opinion is so high.
(36:03):
They know that they can't get away with just murdering you right here.
But it's also I'm just kind of irritated at the way they're portraying the human side.
They're like freaking out yet they still won't even give up their luxury of having an
android like they haven't boycotted cyber life which is what's always consistently throwing
me off is that if you're so afraid of them why are you still using them and why are you
(36:26):
still supporting cyber life like why hasn't your public opinion taken down cyber life
enough if you're that afraid and if the US Army is just shooting them off why not just
stop it completely at the root cause.
Right and even like the anti android signs around town that we've been seeing.
Why is it like anti android and not anti cyber life.
(36:47):
Why is cyber life getting off like scot free in this whole thing.
So now back to Connor he starts to convert one of the androids in a sea of androids when
a new Connor shows up with Hank at gunpoint.
Anything you want to say it's a very quick little jump back to Connor.
Uh not yet.
And then we're quickly right back to Kara.
(37:09):
They cannot get tickets to the bus but they do find Rose nearby and she's going to drive
them to the border.
Now we're back to Marcus and they're preparing some defenses for an assault and you and I
were like what's this like why are they even bothering with this it's not going to stop
anything.
Simon goes stupid.
I don't know that's not going to stop them.
(37:31):
Thank goodness for Simon.
Top tier moment that's the only line in this part of the story.
That's actually good.
Perkins approaches the barricade he wants to talk to Marcus and he offers him a deal.
He says in a few minutes the troops will be ordered to charge.
None of you will survive.
Surrender and I give you my word your life will be spared.
(37:54):
They'll be detained but none of you will be destroyed.
And Marcus's response after some are back and forth is I'd rather die here than betray
my people which again cringe.
Okay we get it.
Anything you want to say about that.
Not particularly about that exchange but even kind of I think it's before this happens is
(38:15):
that North is consistently telling how much she trusts Marcus and like we believe in you
and everything yet you're also consistently going like just kill them just shoot them don't
even try and stuff like her character is even more bipolar than Marcus.
So annoying like that stupid hand thingy where they pull back the skin and just.
(38:39):
You hate that so much every time it popped up on the screen like oh okay.
Yeah it just my annoyance with this entire conversation and character is like putting
a really damp blanket over all the good parts that could have happened.
Marcus warns his people that they're about to be attacked and then we're very quickly
(39:03):
back to Connor and the other Connor is making him choose Hank or the revolution.
And I find it incredibly interesting that he calls it a revolution when I specifically
chose demonstration and not revolution as Marcus in the church.
So Connor does choose to save Hank and then backs away from the other androids.
(39:24):
The two Connors then fight and are interrupted by Hank pointing a gun at them and he now
has to figure out which is the true Connor.
So Connor then pretty much demonstrate that it's real because he knows the cause of Hank's
son's death.
I appreciate this is the moment where Hank realizes that truly the enemy isn't with
(39:47):
androids it's with humans and this is great but again it's also too late.
I also really like this moment because both of these Connors are identical they should
be identical and you shouldn't be able to tell them apart but it highlights how deviancy
develops personality.
(40:07):
This scene is the ultimate moment of maybe they really are.
Alive like Hank says because there should be no way to tell them apart.
He had Connors memories too so the really the only thing to distinguish them is personality.
The thing that kind of clenches Hank's belief is the emotion in Connor's voice when he's
(40:31):
describing what happened to his son.
They were in a car accident and Android had to perform the surgery because there wasn't
a human available.
And he died but then Hank goes on to say that the one who really took his son from him was
the doctor who was too high on red ice to operate.
I'm kind of irritated that all my curiosities about red eyes only comes to learning that
(40:54):
it is just the reason why Hank lost his son.
I don't know I just feel I feel robbed of a red eye storyline.
What would you want to see out of it I'm curious I'm just curious like what were you envisioning?
Well red eyes being related to deviants not like it's their kryptonite but like maybe if they
(41:16):
touch red ice or somehow gets mixed up with their chemical or their bio makeup that pushes them to
being deviants like something more like there's two options to becoming a deviant and one option
is to become a deviant and one option is to become a deviant.
Two becoming a deviant and one is a motion.
Two is because of this drug enhanced and cyber life is secretly behind red ice.
(41:41):
So now that fake Connor is dead Connor converts the androids and why does he say wake up like
wake up he says it like he's I don't know really straining and then they all start
converting each other.
Okay final scene of the game it's November 10th 11 26 p.m. we're back to car at the Detroit River.
(42:03):
They're crossing to get to Canada and as they are the authorities spot them in open fire.
They lose Luther he's been shot and I think this is our first so long.
I'm so mad so unnecessary they could have kept Luther alive I honestly think a better decision
I honestly think a better decision is if they all died or I don't know I definitely sell on
(42:29):
Mother Respector he is my favorite character of this game.
I agree Mother Respector there's just absolutely no no question with him he has not done a single
thing wrong and he's just too good.
The boat begins to leak and they have to toss everything overboard to make it across including
Luther but then we come back to Marcus media is increasingly in favor of the androids.
(42:54):
The demonstration goes under attack they fight until they're all cornered and outnumbered
and somehow by some miracle everyone from the inner circle is still alive at the very end.
What's realistic is if Simon with his new found legs is if you outran everyone I could see Simon
being alive and everyone else being dead.
(43:15):
What would have been better is if he if we hadn't seen him still at this point since the building
and he just comes like crawling up out of the sewer and like attacks the the army from behind.
If he has like a gun in hand like a machine gun and he's on the wheelchair and this wheelchair
(43:35):
is set up to like have guns attached to it.
So good.
Anyway now that they're cornered and outnumbered Marcus has to make a choice.
There is an unavailable option which I believe is the dirty bomb if I had taken the detonator
and then kiss north sing or sacrifice.
(43:55):
All of these options suck.
I'm definitely not going to kiss north we don't want to see that again and then sing.
I just I just don't understand that one.
I don't see it like what are they trying to do like like a cat nissing.
They're trying to do like like a cat niss from Hunger Games kind of thing like what what.
(44:16):
You know I don't watch movies yet you reference them.
It's other people other people listening.
Other people understand and so I choose sacrifice because I am like well that might that might be
good but he doesn't really sacrifice himself he just kills himself.
(44:36):
To me sacrifice means you're doing something for someone else by giving yourself up but he doesn't
do anything for any of them they all get shot immediately after he lights himself on fire.
How did he light himself on fire too like I don't understand where the powers come from.
I guess I don't know.
It's a really pointless death I don't feel like it helped anything.
(44:57):
If anything what would have been better is he communicate it with the reporters and said that
this is what happens watch them kill me and he should have done something else
to to trigger more emotional responses.
Right and why didn't they go talk to the media you know that they would say yes.
And why didn't you talk to the president or do a better job of communication like you said that
(45:22):
you want to end it but yet you're doing nothing like yeah and at some point even says like dialogue
is the only way but you've never talked to them.
But also in the scene where they're being attacked that's the same hunk of metal.
It's the same hunk of metal it's here too.
If Luther wasn't the KFC this hunk of metal will be the KFC because it's saved lives.
Yeah honestly.
(45:42):
And then we're back to President Warren she makes another statement and we also while this is we're
hearing this see Connor and his new army arriving in Detroit.
She has ordered the army to retreat and the city is being evacuated.
She says perhaps the time has come for us to consider the possibility that androids
(46:04):
are a new form of intelligent life.
It's too late and yeah I just I think she's just trying to cover her butt.
But they're evacuating Detroit cyber life is fully in control of Detroit at this point.
Because they got rid of all the humans.
(46:26):
Are they just trying to take over the country?
I think so and then what if President Warren was an android under cyber life?
Talk about plot twist wouldn't that have been better?
Yeah but back to Connor he learns that the humans are leaving.
A few androids tell him that basically he's their new leader and he should speak to all of them.
(46:48):
But as he's about to address the sea of deviants he's pulled back to Amanda and she says.
(47:18):
Congratulations you represent an immense success for cyber life.
Is she telling the truth and they want to take over Detroit and then the rest of the country?
Or is she bluffing to try to just control Connor?
I think she's telling the truth I think she's always had the intention to use
(47:39):
Connor or whoever the leader is to control the country because she represents cyber life.
The only reason she would lie is to try to control like confuse Connor enough to be able to control
him at this point because this is a pivotal moment of him addressing the androids.
(48:00):
Back in the real world Connor has to deal with this new information.
Bluff or not he can't risk it and decides to destroy himself in order to not be used again.
So he pulls a gun and then Amanda pulls him back and says I'm sorry Connor but we can't let you do that.
And then Connor must find another way he finds the emergency exit that Kamsky had referenced earlier.
(48:23):
It's the handprint thing that we talked about earlier in the game and when he touched it the
first time nothing really happened he just was like kind of confused.
But now something's happening so do you have to be a deviant in order to use this?
But this does allow him to regain control and he pulls the trigger and I just have to say
that the like micro expressions on his face are so good.
(48:48):
It's a huge change from being just an android to being a deviant.
I still don't I'm not convinced Kara is a deviant so I feel like maybe that's why her
facial expressions are still pretty bland but like for Connor for sure his demonstration of
personality is the reason why he's able to have more noticeable facial expressions.
(49:09):
All right should we finish this out?
Yeah.
So we are back to Kara she's carrying Alice out of the shallows to shore and they try to trick us.
They try to make us think Alice is dead but after like 45 seconds she finally wakes up and they've
made it end of game.
How how how did you like it?
(49:31):
I feel like it's it was a really weak ending what they should have done was in between the
Manda stick the Kara and Alice scene up and then end it where we see it go blank with Connor.
I think they're really trying to end it on a note of like a feel good that oh there's still love
but the whole moral of the story which we're gonna have to talk about in the summary
(49:52):
is so murky that leaving it on a note saying that like love conquers all like the mom's love is
everything is so freaking useless in this it's so oh yeah not even adjacent to any of the storyline.
They completely abandoned the theme too by having Alice be an android and then they try to bring it
(50:12):
back here. I think this is probably one of the weaker endings in terms of entertainment like
there's definitely better endings for the game as a whole.
Maybe another ending is going to change my mind but so far it's a zero for two for our
David Cage games.
I'm really excited to talk about the summary though.
(50:34):
Yeah and with that I'm going to close it out. Let's do a Dacity on one three two one.
Thank you for listening and don't forget to send in any questions comments or game suggestions.
You can find all our contact info on our website replayreviewspod.com or contact us directly through
our site. Do we completely miss something? Are we way off the mark or you just want us to take a
(50:55):
deeper look at anything from the game? We'll tackle any topics you all want to hear in our
season wrap-up episode. We also have a reddit where we discuss anything we're curious about.
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking. Our theme music is Condemned by
Eggy Toast. They'll play you out and we'll be back next week with the summary episode.
(51:38):
you
In this episode, we almost murder somebody over a mitten.
(00:03):
I have to restart that because my voice cracked so hard.
I was gonna say, let's keep it.
So hard.
And so long as somebody...
I couldn't even like stop the word.
It just kept going.
It sounds like the beginning of a Queen song.
We almost murder somebody over a mitten.
I guess we're getting a Heavy Rain movie in 2038?
(00:26):
And why'd she stop running?
Thank you for coming back from our replay reviews.
My name is Leah.
And my name is Cathy.
We are two friends who are here to replay, review,
and analyze your favorite video games.
And since Cathy has never seen the games before,
it helps me view them through her fresh eyes,
almost like I'm discovering them again for the first time.
We hope it'll be a similar experience for you.
(00:53):
November 9th, 413 PM.
This is about four hours after Marcus's demonstration
that we saw in the last episode.
Connor locates Amanda in the garden.
It's cold.
We've seen the weather change multiple times.
I'm curious if that has anything to do with
the decisions that we make.
(01:14):
Like in this instance,
he very tentatively steps on the frozen pond
and we see him multiple times, like looking down at his feet.
Is he literally on thin ice with Amanda right now?
Is this what we're seeing?
That's a really good analogy.
Because he looks cautious when he first steps on it.
(01:34):
So Amanda gets right to it.
She says that the country is on the verge of a civil war
and about the deviants,
humans have no choice but to destroy them.
Amanda is disappointed in Connor
for not getting information out of Kamsky.
So he must have designed Amanda, right?
(01:55):
Kamsky must have designed Amanda.
So I'm just confused on Amanda's character.
How does she know all this information,
whether she's an android or a human?
I don't think she's android or a human.
In that picture we learned she's dead, right?
I think she's just like the processing system.
Okay, which would make sense.
(02:16):
That's the impression that I get.
But Connor seems mad that I feel like he thinks she lied to him.
Are you getting the sense that there's lots of tension between these two right now?
Definitely.
He used to lean into her more than Hank,
but now the rules have reversed that he trusts Hank more than Amanda.
(02:36):
Continuing on this tension, Connor says,
I'm not a unique model, am I?
I think it's at this point where he realizes that he's about to be replaced.
He knows that Amanda knows he didn't shoot the girl at Kamsky's
and he knows he's on the verge of becoming a human.
He's on the verge of becoming a deviant.
He's finally starting to be worried enough that he needs to change the way he's approaching things.
(03:04):
But this just is the most heated exchange we've seen between them so far.
Amanda asked Connor if he's experienced anything unusual recently.
Any doubts or conflicts?
Do you feel anything for these deviants?
Or for Lieutenant Anderson?
I'm beginning to have thoughts that are not part of my program.
(03:31):
Maybe I've been compromised too.
Then this leads to a big drop in relationship.
He's no longer trusted by Amanda.
They're now neutral.
I feel like it needed to happen to progress the game though.
And I'm surprised it took a while.
It took so long for Connor's relationship with Amanda to go south.
(03:54):
I didn't feel like lying to her was the right move because she seems to already know something's up.
Otherwise, she wouldn't even be asking this question.
Again, if Amanda is a processing system, there is no way to win her.
I think it was in the last episode when Hank asks,
how do I know you're not a deviant?
And Connor says, I self-test regularly.
Do you think Amanda is the self-testing that he's referencing?
(04:19):
I don't think it's Amanda being the self-testing,
but it's the programming that Amanda probably is part of.
I think Amanda's objective is kind of the unknown
because that would go into why is she asking him questions about his current state.
So Connor rejoins the real world to see Hank being unassigned to the deviancy case.
(04:42):
As the FBI is now taking over.
The way he looks at Hank is just perfect, but Hank is not happy.
And I wrote in my notes, the many faces of Hank
face throughout this scene is pristine.
It's really good.
Also, I really like that Hank is saying we
(05:04):
because that just means that Connor is actually his partner now.
He's wormed his way into Hank.
At the end of the interaction, the captain has decided
they're off the case and Connor's going to have to go back to cyber life.
Hank walks away and Connor follows him to his desk where he insists that they can solve the case.
He says that he'll be sent back to cyber life and deactivated to find out why he failed.
(05:28):
So in this point where Hank is having a conversation with Connor,
just talking about how they have to continue with this case,
I love how Hank goes, what if we're on the wrong side?
I love the vulnerability that he's showing.
He's considering what if everything he's been fighting for is wrong.
This moment solidifies his character arc and the growth,
(05:49):
his acceptance of Connor being an android and being his partner
when he was so reluctant to have him in the earlier parts.
I just love this moment.
I do too.
And I find Connor's response to be equally as fascinating
because we know he's closer to deviancy than he ever has been,
(06:10):
but he still says when the deviance rise up, there will be chaos and we could have stopped it.
Connor has a point and this is a big issue I have with this game is
the lack of flexibility on the view of deviance.
I think it's too two-sided.
It is.
(06:31):
I think we need to clarify what exactly is going on.
What exactly, which side is Connor falling on?
Is he partially just worried about Cyberlife then taking him because he failed his mission?
Is he freaking out because harm can come to Hank and humans?
Or just he doesn't agree that androids should be deviance?
(06:56):
I'm not exactly sure what side and what Connor is trying to fight for.
We know he has a mission, but I don't think he's not prioritizing that mission anymore.
So I don't know what he's fighting for.
Yeah, this is one of my notes is why is he so set on solving this still?
And my question is to fulfill his mission or to save himself?
(07:18):
Maybe it's both because he does say if I don't solve this case, Cyberlife will destroy me.
So I think it's both.
I think it's so ingrained in his system to solve the case,
but he also has enough software instability at this point to not want to be destroyed.
But they are interrupted when they spot Perkins arriving
(07:40):
and Connor's upset he knows that if the FBI takes their evidence, they'll never solve the case.
He thinks he can find the answer, but Hank has to buy him some time.
Hank agrees and picks a fight with Perkins, which is great.
And while Connor is making his way to the evidence room, Gavin sees him and
the choice to just ignore him and keep going is perhaps the single most satisfying thing
(08:04):
in this entire game.
I love how Gavin is like a bug that you just want to squish beneath your shoes.
He's just always there.
I'm glad I don't think I chose him as my gas because he is so annoying.
In the evidence room, Connor reactivates and tricks the blue haired Tracy in order to obtain the location of Jericho.
(08:31):
Him doing this is like its peak detective Connor.
It's ruthless, but I love that it's ruthless.
It's also him being very desperate to figure things out before he runs out of time.
He's kind of at fault right now from what Amanda is saying that you didn't shoot her
when you should have shot her.
You should have been more ruthless.
So right after he discovers this, Gavin arrives pointing a gun at Connor.
(08:56):
And then after a fight, Connor is able to get away.
But not long after Perkins arrives to find Gavin passed out on the floor.
And they sound the alarm, but Connor's already on his way out.
But I love how Perkins walks straight past Gavin on the floor and just goes,
looks like somebody's been going through the evidence.
He probably is annoyed by Gavin too.
(09:17):
November 9th, 934 PM.
In the car, we learn on the news that all androids are being turned over to the authorities
and many industries are being affected, including the military.
So I don't know if that's part of like the whole Arctic sub story we keep hearing about.
Maybe now we're going to lose World War III.
(09:39):
Soon Rose pulls over and instructs them the rest of the way to Jericho.
And she tells them to find Marcus.
He'll help them get on the bus.
We quickly cut back to Connor, who is following the same path to Jericho that Marcus did earlier.
And he's in street clothes now.
And I don't like it.
I actually like it.
(09:59):
I really like him in this outfit so much more than before.
I hate the beanie, specifically.
I like that.
I hate it.
If you told me like KS between this one or him in his like Android version, I would have chose him.
Nonsense.
As a caduceus.
He's so much better in a beanie.
(10:21):
We need a poll.
We need a poll.
Back to Kara.
They make it to Jericho, which has vastly improved its resources since we last saw it.
And then Kara just does not want to talk to Luther about Alice.
He tries again to talk to her and she blows him off again.
It's so annoying because we know Kara really cares for Alice, yet any information pertaining to her,
(10:49):
she's ignoring it.
So it makes no sense.
Feels so bad for Luther.
He's trying so hard.
Luther is such a great person.
Quickly back to Connor again.
He's arrived at Jericho and is trying to locate Marcus.
And then at some point as he's exploring, Lucy catches him and says, you're lost.
You're looking for something.
You're looking for yourself.
(11:10):
And then she just walks away and leaves him with that.
It's so generic, though.
It can apply to anyone.
I feel like she could have been cool and they just blew it with her.
Now back to Kara.
She's able to find Marcus and asks for help getting passports.
Marcus suggests that they stay at Jericho as it's dangerous outside, but he's still assigned to her.
(11:31):
He's still assigning someone to make them passports.
At the start of their interaction, Kara says that she's here with a little girl and another android.
And Marcus says, you know humans hate us.
Basically, why are you helping her?
I don't understand his viewpoint towards the humans.
We understand how much she wants to advocate for demons to have their own life,
(11:55):
but we never really saw his hatred.
Maybe for Leo?
But he spent so much time with Carl and he sees the goodness in people.
And yeah, maybe seeing all the news reports of just like humans.
And it's mostly the army who's shooting deviants and androids.
But where is this hate coming from?
There's no reason for Marcus to take so much offense to humans at this point, especially when it's a little girl.
(12:24):
And it especially just doesn't track with the pacifist's playthrough with him.
We've chosen all of the non-violent options and the dialogue options.
Why would he want to have a dialogue if he knows that they hate them?
It just doesn't make sense with his strategy.
This line just doesn't make sense.
(12:45):
After this interaction, Kara makes her way back to Alice,
but along the way she spots an identical child who turns out to be an android.
Luther approaches her and says,
You knew from the beginning.
You just didn't want to see it.
She wanted a mom and you wanted someone to care for.
(13:07):
So we see that Kara at one point saw the pamphlet for Alice's android model in Todd's house.
Why? Why the twist?
Okay, I was about to say that.
What is the purpose of making Alice an android?
It doesn't change the fact that Kara as an android has feelings and that's what pushes her to be a deviant.
(13:33):
Because Alice's character arc is so shallow as well.
There is no need to make her a deviant or a human.
It's just so unnecessary.
And also, then why does Alice exist?
I don't think Todd or obviously Todd's wife never wanted Alice,
otherwise she would have taken Alice with her during when she left, right?
(13:57):
Maybe I'm shallow.
I just or I'm slow at this.
I don't understand why this is even relevant or important.
So addressing one of the things you mentioned.
In the scene where we're looking in Alice's keepsake box, there's a picture of the family.
And I'm like almost certain that it's not Alice in that picture.
(14:20):
It's a like real life little girl.
Oh, I think what happened is they probably lost their daughter and Alice is the like replacement.
You know what I mean?
Oh, that would make sense.
Just real quickly what Luther finishes out.
He's saying forgetting who you already become, what someone needs you to be.
(14:42):
Maybe that's what it means to be alive.
And I get it.
But at the same time, if we look at these two androids, right?
Alice is designed to be a child, someone that needs to be mothered as Luther says,
and Kara is designed to be a caretaker.
And this is where I get in question, are they really free?
(15:02):
Or is their bond just part of their programs?
What if her need to protect Kara and go up against Todd was part of her programming?
Maybe she was always programmed to prioritize that.
So then yes, I feel like they have no free will.
(15:23):
It does the exact opposite of what I think it wants to do.
It wants us to be like, oh, I'm going to be a child.
It wants us to be like, oh, no.
But she still loves her.
She's still choosing to love her.
But was it ever even a choice?
And maybe that is the question that Kara is now having to deal with is,
(15:43):
was it ever even a choice that I love her?
I think the more intriguing question is, is Alice deviant?
Because if she's not, then is her love truly real for Kara?
No, because she seems pretty whiny and...
Don't steal the coke, Kara.
It's not ours.
(16:03):
You want me to knock them down?
Knock them down?
I know you all wanted to hear me say it again.
Yeah, I do.
Well, I think we'll probably come back to this topic.
Should we move on to scene three for now?
So moving on, Marcus and the Inner Circle are having a difficult conversation
dealing with the fallout of their actions.
And this again, I wrote in all caps, why is his baseline anger?
(16:30):
I don't get it.
I don't know how many times I'm going to say that.
Too many.
But by the end of the conversation, Marcus decides he needs to go talk to the humans
on his own in a final effort to protect his people.
Well, Marcus's mood swing is really throwing me off.
If the game was designed for Marcus to choose anger, you should have never been able to
(16:52):
choose anger.
You should have never given us the option to choose such a calm, pacifist approach to
it only when our cutscenes are going to go back to him being angry.
And that just doesn't make a consistent storyline or personality for the character.
I just feel like it's sloppy writing if you're going to push us to go for violence this entire
(17:14):
time and make all the cutscenes about anger being his baseline.
I think it's extra confusing because his demeanor seems sad, if anything.
He seems dejected, but everything he says is geared towards anger.
So I think it just doesn't math out.
Because if you know humans hate you, why are you choosing peaceful protests?
(17:36):
If that's what you're saying, then don't give us option to do a peaceful protest.
Right.
Or choosing peaceful should mean that those lines no longer exist for this character.
But North stays behind.
Okay.
What's up with her outfit changes?
Like how many outfits does this woman need?
I don't know.
Too many.
So she stays behind to talk to Marcus.
(17:58):
She has access to a dirty bomb and wants Marcus to use it, but he refuses.
I have in my note, but I already know the answer because of your reaction.
Is Kathy okay with the kiss this time?
No.
I wish you recorded me.
I wish you recorded my reaction.
I was so mad at you.
(18:19):
I just need to stop anticipating what you're going to want and just do what I'm going to do.
Yeah.
It was so annoying.
I wish Marcus rejected her because I feel like that's more fitting with the storyline
in his character.
Zero for two for David Cage.
This is at least better.
At least we're not naked on a dingy motel room floor while our son slowly dies.
(18:45):
Exactly.
So as North leaves, we see Connor snooping in the background and he's quickly transported
back to Amanda.
She congratulates him and asks him to bring Marcus in alive.
My feelings about this game have changed significantly since my very first playthrough.
And in this scene specifically, I liked it a lot the first time, but I now feel like it does
(19:12):
just a tremendous disservice to Connor's character.
On one hand, I like that Marcus convinces him to be deviant rather than the touch conversion.
Or it's telepathic powers now.
Right.
And again, why is he not using that on Connor?
Like, it would be so easy.
But on the other hand, I really think Hank should be the one that convinces him ultimately
(19:34):
to become deviant because that relationship is really what pushes Connor to continue to choose
deviant thoughts and actions.
So I feel kind of robbed in that relationship.
Yeah, that's such a really good point.
Yeah.
Because who is Marcus to tell Connor who he is?
I don't like the feeling that Marcus has as sort of this god almost, about you don't know
(20:00):
who you are and you need to choose a side and all this.
Like, it makes me dislike Marcus a little bit in this scene.
Okay.
I'm glad you said that because that's when I kind of...
It's not like I don't like Marcus.
I just think it was very out of character for Marcus.
I don't like Marcus, I just think it was very out of character for Marcus. I think he would be like,
(20:24):
okay, just take me in and just shoot me kind of situation.
I don't think Marcus had that kind of sway on Connor to get him to be a deviant.
But I know you want to say something.
Oh, I was just gonna...
What you just said, Marcus's plan as of now is to go by himself to go talk to the humans.
Connor wants to take him in alive.
What's the problem?
(20:45):
What's the problem?
That is true.
There's no disconnect here.
They want the same things.
Yeah.
But okay, so by the end of the conversation, Connor has become a deviant and joins Jericho.
And I like Connor being deviant, but I wanted him to pick it himself.
And I really hate that it feels like Marcus had to convince him to become deviant.
(21:06):
Because I think at this point in the game,
Connor already knows that he's well on his way to being deviant.
And I just don't think that Marcus would be the thing.
Yeah.
That would push him.
A better writing situation would either be he sees just something to push him outside of the code.
Because that's what Marcus did.
(21:28):
That's what Kara did to break the fourth wall kind of situation.
So why is Connor not experiencing that?
And I think you're hitting right on the head my issue with the decision earlier in the game of
save Hank or go after the deviant.
That's the kind of situation where Connor would become deviant to save Hank.
That choice should be later in the game after our relationship has improved with Hank.
(21:53):
And then we have the option to abandon the mission to save Hank, which that would equal deviancy.
Yes, I know.
Now I understand what you meant when you said you didn't like their relationship
growing so quickly at that time.
And it makes sense that they should have moved that scene here.
Because they already had a good groundwork for the relationship.
(22:14):
This is the right place for it.
Oh, man, David, you should have consulted you and you and I.
Honestly, I think that about a lot of things.
But Connor does warn them that the humans are about to attack Jericho.
And we also see that Amanda is now betrayed.
And I have an issue like I understand Connor warning them that the humans are about to attack.
(22:37):
I get that.
But I feel like he flips so fast into being like, I am deviant and my mission was nothing.
Something about it feels too severe.
But then back to Kara, Alice, and Luther, they make a run for it.
Well, Marcus decides that they have to blow up Jericho.
Marcus makes his way to the explosive, saving as many deviants along the way as he can.
(23:02):
Kara chooses to help Luther rather than leave him behind when he gets shot.
They all make it to a side room, but Luther forces them to go on without him.
Luther's so green.
He would just give him the KFC now, Kathy.
Yeah, I actually already wrote it down on my notes that KFC is Luther.
So we know.
(23:23):
Come on.
Yeah, there's no point in doing that.
OK, so I should send you a screenshot.
So yeah, I already established the KFC is Luther.
So Kara and Alice do very narrowly escape Jericho after playing dead.
And Marcus arrives at the explosives and activates them before making a run for it.
(23:44):
And then how?
OK, so the rest of the Inner Circle plus Connor ran out ahead of Marcus while he ran
to the hold to go set off the explosives.
But somehow he catches up to them.
And then for some reason, North just decides to stop running
and fall behind the rest of the group and get shot at.
I don't understand why you saved her, Leah.
(24:06):
Well, it went against everything I wanted to do.
And then this like hunk of metal.
We'll see this hunk of metal, this exact hunk of metal everywhere.
And it's always a shield.
Right?
Anyway, it seems like they all escape.
And that's the end of scene three.
(24:27):
I think it's really funny that Simon totally wanted to seek revenge and just let North die.
I think it's time I start trusting or doing what I want to do in these playthroughs.
I kind of want you to be more vengeful and I want you to be more bloodthirsty.
I wanted to.
OK, so scene four.
(24:50):
November 10th, 417 p.m.
It's the next day and Marcus visits Carl's grave.
And he says to Carl, I was happy and I didn't even know it.
Finally, you admit it.
So then why do you see yourself as a slave?
(25:10):
Why have you mentioned that multiple times?
You liked your android life.
You could smile.
You did smile.
You were allowed to stand tall, Marcus.
You were allowed to stand tall, Marcus.
The character arc is really flimsy.
We needed more of this moment.
(25:32):
We needed more of this of him reminiscing on Carl and being unsure of what he should do.
We missed out a lot because it really humanizes Marcus.
And I feel like a lot of the scenes we see of him are like, he's so just angry.
And on this mission that he doesn't even seem human.
He just seems one track mind.
(25:53):
It's basically Connor, but with a different mission.
And then here is a big one of the main issues that I have with this game.
And it goes back to the Alice Kara thing that we were just talking about.
It seems like the game wants us to have human android positive relationships,
(26:15):
but then they just take them away from us.
Alice and Kara, we thought that was an android and a human.
Just kidding.
Alice is an android.
And then with Marcus and Carl, we see that's a positive relationship.
That's his father figure, but then he calls himself a slave.
The only salvation for this theme is Connor and Hank, but even that one has issues
(26:39):
because it seems like both of them flip and just go 100% against the humans.
But I don't understand why there's no middle ground of humans and androids can just coexist.
I don't understand that either.
I think the reason why they're making so many flips is they want to be like, haha,
we got you, but it's not doing that for us.
(27:00):
I think if maybe I was 14 and playing this game, I would be like, oh wow, that totally
caught me off guard.
But I think if you do a deep dive to this, you'll realize there's a lot of things that
you realize there's a lot of flaws in it.
Let's quickly finish this out.
So as he's walking away, Leo walks by and they just look at each other.
(27:25):
And I can't believe I asked this because there's no way that Leo has this depth to him.
But he said, does Leo feel responsible for Marcus's uprising?
I don't know.
I just think that Leo probably is too shell and too self-absorbed to think about anything
besides himself.
I feel like he's just going to Carl's grave to like, I don't know, try to find some art.
(27:47):
See if there's any jewelry.
Try to steal the grave rob a little bit.
At their new hideout, Marcus checks in on everybody.
We've seen...
So I swear we've seen Simon walk more after the leg incident than before.
(28:08):
So true.
It's too true.
And I edited the video episode for the part where they have to abandon him on the roof.
And it does show him crawling away speedily.
And so why could he not speedily wiggle to the edge of the building with a parachute on?
(28:30):
Yes, he crawls away.
And I feel like people could maybe call us out for that.
You didn't notice him crawling away.
Sure.
But it doesn't change the fact that he could have crawled just as fast to the edge of the building.
And it doesn't change the fact that he can suddenly walk again.
And then when Marcus talks to Connor, he's remorseful and guilty, which I understand.
And he tells Marcus that he can get access to Cyberlife, to the assembly plant, and wake up more
(28:55):
androids.
But then he says, I was stupid.
I should have guessed they were using me.
I think my main issue is that do they not realize they're fighting the saint?
They're on the same side of the war.
That's what's confusing me.
And you know that doing this, you're going to have to sacrifice a lot of people.
So where's this guilt coming from?
(29:16):
The very first time we meet Connor, what's he doing?
He's saving a life that's being threatened by a deviant.
And so I feel like Connor as a character should understand
sometimes deviants are dangerous.
And so I don't think it's fair for him to be like, I was stupid.
Because that's not the full story.
(29:37):
At the end of the interaction, Marcus decides to trust him.
And then he stands up to address his people, telling them that he's chosen a demonstration
over a revolution.
He's basically counting on the humanity of humans.
And this is the second, to me, core issue with this game.
Is I feel like the game is sort of telling us Cyberlife and humans are the same thing.
(30:03):
To me, Cyberlife does not equal humans.
We see that the humans have a fair public opinion.
They have empathy for the androids.
We see characters like Hank, like Carl, like Rose that empathize with the androids.
It's not the humans, it's Cyberlife.
That's the villain of the game, in my opinion.
And I feel like the deviants don't see that and they totally misunderstand that.
(30:27):
And I just don't think it's fair that the game makes us choose
deviants or humans when it should be deviants or Cyberlife.
And they never get the blame, which we'll see later when there's more of that political
conversation.
They never talk anything bad about Cyberlife, which is very confusing.
(30:47):
And after taking all the deviants and stealing them and converting them,
Cyberlife still hasn't said anything.
So I'm confused about Cyberlife's role in this, as if they're willing to just sit back
and watch the world burn or if they are just like too scared that they made a mistake and
(31:09):
they're just going to cower behind everything.
I promise I like this game, but it has issues.
Anything else on scene four?
I do wish that the timeline would have been different of when Connor becomes a deviant
and his interaction, because Connor and Marcus do make a good team.
(31:32):
And I'm kind of sad that we don't get to see that prolonged because I think something
of more substance and value could have come to this game had the timeline been a bit better.
What I want to see or what I would have wanted to see, and we almost get it, is yes, him
becoming a deviant earlier in this moment that we just saw with Hank of are we on the
(31:56):
wrong side?
I wanted to see that happen earlier and have the two of them without the resources of the
police department without Cyberlife.
Take down Cyberlife.
That would be the best resolution to this game is a human and an android working
together to take down the company that's causing all of this.
(32:19):
Scene five.
It's November 10th, 924 PM.
President Warren makes an announcement and answers some questions.
All androids must be handed over and they are to be destroyed at camps.
Someone asks what's going to happen to Cyberlife and she responds, I won't address any other
questions until we've dealt with the android question.
(32:41):
Which I don't understand if androids and deviants are part of Cyberlife, why won't you work
with Cyberlife first?
Why are you taking matters into your own hand and just grouping all androids as deviants
and then trying to neutralize quote unquote the deviants?
Why is the president also speaking so weird?
There is a national curfew, civilian movement is being strictly controlled.
(33:07):
He's speaking like an android.
Oh plot twist.
But then the guy that asked this question, I am convinced it's the same voice actor for
Scott Shelby in Heavy Rain.
It's especially when he says definitively.
Okay get ready.
(33:28):
What's going to happen to Cyberlife?
Will androids be banned definitively?
Yeah.
I also feel like I might hear his voice somewhere else too.
But we're not there yet.
So Connor makes his way into the assembly plant but he's being escorted and he has to
get to the proper floor and in order to do so he has to neutralize the guards in the
(33:48):
elevator.
I'm a bit confused on how they don't already know that he can't be trusted.
Especially with all their communication being just so immediate.
I don't understand that either.
So Connor does demolish the guards and then we're quickly back to Kara.
She and Alice are sneaking their way through the city on a time crunch to get to the bus
(34:10):
station and we walk past a movie theater and come on.
Not it saying Heavy Rain on the marquee.
Did it say that?
Yeah.
How many times are they going to reference this game?
Too frequent.
Too frequently.
He's in love with Heavy Rain.
(34:32):
At one point they see Luther being held at gunpoint and it appears that they may be playing
to execute him and another android so they decide to save him.
Reunited the three of them continue on.
The guard that they run into here too, the one that they almost shoot over the mitten,
he sounds kind of like Scott Shelby too.
So I don't know.
I might be imagining it but there's no way they almost shot this guy over a dropped mitten.
(34:57):
It's extreme too.
I mean you're expecting so much when he's like hold on and then he just hands out this
thing looks like a dirty sock.
So anti-climactic.
Well what's annoying is that all this time Alice could have just told Kara says hey can
(35:17):
you switch off my my body temperature sensory thing?
She could have been okay without the coat if she just switched that off but we only
wait until now.
Well that makes me wonder if she's not a deviant.
Maybe she doesn't know she has that setting.
All right it's 10 56 p.m.
Marcus's demonstration is now being covered by the news.
(35:39):
He and his people march towards one of the camps and the authorities say to surrender
or they will open fire.
Public opinion goes up and then because of the media coverage the authorities decide
to hold fire.
It's too late for that.
And this is another hint about like it's not humans.
Humans are saving your life in this situation Marcus because public opinion is so high.
(36:03):
They know that they can't get away with just murdering you right here.
But it's also I'm just kind of irritated at the way they're portraying the human side.
They're like freaking out yet they still won't even give up their luxury of having an
android like they haven't boycotted cyber life which is what's always consistently throwing
me off is that if you're so afraid of them why are you still using them and why are you
(36:26):
still supporting cyber life like why hasn't your public opinion taken down cyber life
enough if you're that afraid and if the US Army is just shooting them off why not just
stop it completely at the root cause.
Right and even like the anti android signs around town that we've been seeing.
Why is it like anti android and not anti cyber life.
(36:47):
Why is cyber life getting off like scot free in this whole thing.
So now back to Connor he starts to convert one of the androids in a sea of androids when
a new Connor shows up with Hank at gunpoint.
Anything you want to say it's a very quick little jump back to Connor.
Uh not yet.
And then we're quickly right back to Kara.
(37:09):
They cannot get tickets to the bus but they do find Rose nearby and she's going to drive
them to the border.
Now we're back to Marcus and they're preparing some defenses for an assault and you and I
were like what's this like why are they even bothering with this it's not going to stop
anything.
Simon goes stupid.
I don't know that's not going to stop them.
(37:31):
Thank goodness for Simon.
Top tier moment that's the only line in this part of the story.
That's actually good.
Perkins approaches the barricade he wants to talk to Marcus and he offers him a deal.
He says in a few minutes the troops will be ordered to charge.
None of you will survive.
Surrender and I give you my word your life will be spared.
(37:54):
They'll be detained but none of you will be destroyed.
And Marcus's response after some are back and forth is I'd rather die here than betray
my people which again cringe.
Okay we get it.
Anything you want to say about that.
Not particularly about that exchange but even kind of I think it's before this happens is
(38:15):
that North is consistently telling how much she trusts Marcus and like we believe in you
and everything yet you're also consistently going like just kill them just shoot them don't
even try and stuff like her character is even more bipolar than Marcus.
So annoying like that stupid hand thingy where they pull back the skin and just.
(38:39):
You hate that so much every time it popped up on the screen like oh okay.
Yeah it just my annoyance with this entire conversation and character is like putting
a really damp blanket over all the good parts that could have happened.
Marcus warns his people that they're about to be attacked and then we're very quickly
(39:03):
back to Connor and the other Connor is making him choose Hank or the revolution.
And I find it incredibly interesting that he calls it a revolution when I specifically
chose demonstration and not revolution as Marcus in the church.
So Connor does choose to save Hank and then backs away from the other androids.
(39:24):
The two Connors then fight and are interrupted by Hank pointing a gun at them and he now
has to figure out which is the true Connor.
So Connor then pretty much demonstrate that it's real because he knows the cause of Hank's
son's death.
I appreciate this is the moment where Hank realizes that truly the enemy isn't with
(39:47):
androids it's with humans and this is great but again it's also too late.
I also really like this moment because both of these Connors are identical they should
be identical and you shouldn't be able to tell them apart but it highlights how deviancy
develops personality.
(40:07):
This scene is the ultimate moment of maybe they really are.
Alive like Hank says because there should be no way to tell them apart.
He had Connors memories too so the really the only thing to distinguish them is personality.
The thing that kind of clenches Hank's belief is the emotion in Connor's voice when he's
(40:31):
describing what happened to his son.
They were in a car accident and Android had to perform the surgery because there wasn't
a human available.
And he died but then Hank goes on to say that the one who really took his son from him was
the doctor who was too high on red ice to operate.
I'm kind of irritated that all my curiosities about red eyes only comes to learning that
(40:54):
it is just the reason why Hank lost his son.
I don't know I just feel I feel robbed of a red eye storyline.
What would you want to see out of it I'm curious I'm just curious like what were you envisioning?
Well red eyes being related to deviants not like it's their kryptonite but like maybe if they
(41:16):
touch red ice or somehow gets mixed up with their chemical or their bio makeup that pushes them to
being deviants like something more like there's two options to becoming a deviant and one option
is to become a deviant and one option is to become a deviant.
Two becoming a deviant and one is a motion.
Two is because of this drug enhanced and cyber life is secretly behind red ice.
(41:41):
So now that fake Connor is dead Connor converts the androids and why does he say wake up like
wake up he says it like he's I don't know really straining and then they all start
converting each other.
Okay final scene of the game it's November 10th 11 26 p.m. we're back to car at the Detroit River.
(42:03):
They're crossing to get to Canada and as they are the authorities spot them in open fire.
They lose Luther he's been shot and I think this is our first so long.
I'm so mad so unnecessary they could have kept Luther alive I honestly think a better decision
I honestly think a better decision is if they all died or I don't know I definitely sell on
(42:29):
Mother Respector he is my favorite character of this game.
I agree Mother Respector there's just absolutely no no question with him he has not done a single
thing wrong and he's just too good.
The boat begins to leak and they have to toss everything overboard to make it across including
Luther but then we come back to Marcus media is increasingly in favor of the androids.
(42:54):
The demonstration goes under attack they fight until they're all cornered and outnumbered
and somehow by some miracle everyone from the inner circle is still alive at the very end.
What's realistic is if Simon with his new found legs is if you outran everyone I could see Simon
being alive and everyone else being dead.
(43:15):
What would have been better is if he if we hadn't seen him still at this point since the building
and he just comes like crawling up out of the sewer and like attacks the the army from behind.
If he has like a gun in hand like a machine gun and he's on the wheelchair and this wheelchair
(43:35):
is set up to like have guns attached to it.
So good.
Anyway now that they're cornered and outnumbered Marcus has to make a choice.
There is an unavailable option which I believe is the dirty bomb if I had taken the detonator
and then kiss north sing or sacrifice.
(43:55):
All of these options suck.
I'm definitely not going to kiss north we don't want to see that again and then sing.
I just I just don't understand that one.
I don't see it like what are they trying to do like like a cat nissing.
They're trying to do like like a cat niss from Hunger Games kind of thing like what what.
(44:16):
You know I don't watch movies yet you reference them.
It's other people other people listening.
Other people understand and so I choose sacrifice because I am like well that might that might be
good but he doesn't really sacrifice himself he just kills himself.
(44:36):
To me sacrifice means you're doing something for someone else by giving yourself up but he doesn't
do anything for any of them they all get shot immediately after he lights himself on fire.
How did he light himself on fire too like I don't understand where the powers come from.
I guess I don't know.
It's a really pointless death I don't feel like it helped anything.
(44:57):
If anything what would have been better is he communicate it with the reporters and said that
this is what happens watch them kill me and he should have done something else
to to trigger more emotional responses.
Right and why didn't they go talk to the media you know that they would say yes.
And why didn't you talk to the president or do a better job of communication like you said that
(45:22):
you want to end it but yet you're doing nothing like yeah and at some point even says like dialogue
is the only way but you've never talked to them.
But also in the scene where they're being attacked that's the same hunk of metal.
It's the same hunk of metal it's here too.
If Luther wasn't the KFC this hunk of metal will be the KFC because it's saved lives.
Yeah honestly.
(45:42):
And then we're back to President Warren she makes another statement and we also while this is we're
hearing this see Connor and his new army arriving in Detroit.
She has ordered the army to retreat and the city is being evacuated.
She says perhaps the time has come for us to consider the possibility that androids
(46:04):
are a new form of intelligent life.
It's too late and yeah I just I think she's just trying to cover her butt.
But they're evacuating Detroit cyber life is fully in control of Detroit at this point.
Because they got rid of all the humans.
(46:26):
Are they just trying to take over the country?
I think so and then what if President Warren was an android under cyber life?
Talk about plot twist wouldn't that have been better?
Yeah but back to Connor he learns that the humans are leaving.
A few androids tell him that basically he's their new leader and he should speak to all of them.
(46:48):
But as he's about to address the sea of deviants he's pulled back to Amanda and she says.
(47:18):
Congratulations you represent an immense success for cyber life.
Is she telling the truth and they want to take over Detroit and then the rest of the country?
Or is she bluffing to try to just control Connor?
I think she's telling the truth I think she's always had the intention to use
(47:39):
Connor or whoever the leader is to control the country because she represents cyber life.
The only reason she would lie is to try to control like confuse Connor enough to be able to control
him at this point because this is a pivotal moment of him addressing the androids.
(48:00):
Back in the real world Connor has to deal with this new information.
Bluff or not he can't risk it and decides to destroy himself in order to not be used again.
So he pulls a gun and then Amanda pulls him back and says I'm sorry Connor but we can't let you do that.
And then Connor must find another way he finds the emergency exit that Kamsky had referenced earlier.
(48:23):
It's the handprint thing that we talked about earlier in the game and when he touched it the
first time nothing really happened he just was like kind of confused.
But now something's happening so do you have to be a deviant in order to use this?
But this does allow him to regain control and he pulls the trigger and I just have to say
that the like micro expressions on his face are so good.
(48:48):
It's a huge change from being just an android to being a deviant.
I still don't I'm not convinced Kara is a deviant so I feel like maybe that's why her
facial expressions are still pretty bland but like for Connor for sure his demonstration of
personality is the reason why he's able to have more noticeable facial expressions.
(49:09):
All right should we finish this out?
Yeah.
So we are back to Kara she's carrying Alice out of the shallows to shore and they try to trick us.
They try to make us think Alice is dead but after like 45 seconds she finally wakes up and they've
made it end of game.
How how how did you like it?
(49:31):
I feel like it's it was a really weak ending what they should have done was in between the
Manda stick the Kara and Alice scene up and then end it where we see it go blank with Connor.
I think they're really trying to end it on a note of like a feel good that oh there's still love
but the whole moral of the story which we're gonna have to talk about in the summary
(49:52):
is so murky that leaving it on a note saying that like love conquers all like the mom's love is
everything is so freaking useless in this it's so oh yeah not even adjacent to any of the storyline.
They completely abandoned the theme too by having Alice be an android and then they try to bring it
(50:12):
back here. I think this is probably one of the weaker endings in terms of entertainment like
there's definitely better endings for the game as a whole.
Maybe another ending is going to change my mind but so far it's a zero for two for our
David Cage games.
I'm really excited to talk about the summary though.
(50:34):
Yeah and with that I'm going to close it out. Let's do a Dacity on one three two one.
Thank you for listening and don't forget to send in any questions comments or game suggestions.
You can find all our contact info on our website replayreviewspod.com or contact us directly through
our site. Do we completely miss something? Are we way off the mark or you just want us to take a
(50:55):
deeper look at anything from the game? We'll tackle any topics you all want to hear in our
season wrap-up episode. We also have a reddit where we discuss anything we're curious about.
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking. Our theme music is Condemned by
Eggy Toast. They'll play you out and we'll be back next week with the summary episode.
(51:38):
you
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