September 26, 2024 • 59 mins
Welcome back to Detroit: Become Human - in the summary episode, we investigate our burning questions, discuss alternate endings, and hand out KFC (Kathy's Favorite Character) Awards. Don't forget to watch or play along - gameplay is posted weekly on our YouTube channel where we also have new video episodes! You can also find us on our website, Instagram, Twitter, and Reddit. Please consider supporting Eggy Toast here if you enjoyed the music in this episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We contemplated drinking for this episode because it's been a week for us.
(00:05):
And then you messaged me, are we drinking?
And I said, I have coffee.
And then you said, I'm drinking Pedialyte.
It's so rough.
And then I logged into this video, nearly choked to death as I'm trying to talk to you.
And it feels like a Friday when it's only Wednesday and we still have half a week
(00:26):
left to still go to work.
You know, it's bad when it's seven o'clock on a Wednesday and you're drinking
caffeinated coffee or Pedialyte.
Like that's pretty close to rock bottom.
Thank you for coming back from our replay reviews.
My name is Leah.
And my name is Kathy.
We are two friends who are here to replay, review and analyze your favorite video games.
(00:50):
And since Kathy has never seen the games before, it helps me view them through her
fresh eyes, almost like I'm discovering them again for the first time.
We hope it'll be a similar experience for you.
Welcome to the Detroit become human summary.
Anything you want to say before we start on topic one, which is our burning questions?
(01:13):
I have really inappropriate things to say right now that I'm going to choose to not.
So let's just go into.
I w- well, you can't tease us like that.
Now I want to know.
I was just gonna- that was just such a rough one.
I was like, just hang on to your t- and b- are just going to go right through.
Wow.
I was expecting a classic Kathy.
(01:35):
Nope.
But instead I got hold on to your t- and b- so I don't really know what to expect.
But we're spicing things up.
Are we?
No, it's just-
Do we have the same outline?
Burning question number one.
Question one.
Do they really have free will as deviants?
Is it breaking it down for Kara?
(01:57):
I would say no, because Luther pointed out that her code, she's meant to be like a mother,
like a protector.
So even though it felt like she broke the wall and went into like a deviant mode, I
think it was still part of her programming because she did it to protect Alice, which
(02:17):
is part of her nature of the series that are the androids that she is.
So I feel like everything she did wasn't really free will.
For Marcus, I feel like it's kind of hard to tell because of the decisions we chose.
His character really never changed and he really didn't do anything that was like, that
(02:38):
was surprising.
I feel like if he did, Cyberlife would have shut that down so quickly.
So Cyberlife probably knew Marcus was going to be converting more people to be deviants.
And because they knew that was going to happen, it's almost like they were like,
it's almost as if they programmed him to be that way.
So again, I don't think he has free will.
For Connor, why I said that he's the only one who probably has free will is up until
(03:04):
the very end when he decides to shoot himself.
I made a surprise.
Like that's the first time we've seen her have anything other than like, wait, wait,
wait kind of situation.
And he used the emergency exit that Kamsky built in and he did something that I don't
think anyone was expecting.
And so up until that point, he probably didn't have free will.
(03:25):
He was doing what Amanda expected him to do.
But after that, that's the only time we've seen any character do something out of the
blue.
And I think at that moment, that's when he has free will.
I agree with you.
I don't think deviants just immediately have free will.
And a lot of it's what you've said and what we've been discussing throughout the other
(03:45):
episodes.
But the dialogue sounding AI generated to me is a big thing.
And then the similar deviancy origin stories that we've seen, it seems like there's things
that trigger it, which I feel like is maybe evidence of deviancy being its own code or
program or whatever you want to call it.
(04:07):
A big issue for me is Connor's immediate 180 when he becomes deviant.
Because despite his knowledge and understanding of both sides of the issues, he immediately
is shooting humans and totally on the deviant side.
And I feel like that 180 is just not what someone with free will would do.
I think they would be more somewhere in the middle.
(04:30):
Yeah, similar to you.
I think that they don't have free will when they become deviant, but they unlock sort
of another layer of their processes or their code, which leads them to believe they have
free will and that they want free will, but they don't fully become free unless they use
the emergency exit program like Connor did.
(04:52):
Agreed.
So far, I feel like this game is the one that we've agreed on the most.
Yeah.
Except for when it comes to Connor's outfits.
Oh.
I think that's the only time we've disagreed.
We have a really good segue talking about the RA9.
And so that's our second question.
(05:13):
Doing a lot of research, there's a lot of good theories out there for some,
some people say it's like a virus, a code, an idea.
I do want to point out there's two people that I really like their ideas.
So I'm going to give a shout out to Sotikoto from stream.com or whatever website it's called.
(05:34):
And this is what they said is that RA9 is the idea that David Cage had,
but never got around to connecting it coherently to anything.
Let me keep reading the delivery on that.
Yes.
It didn't come from anywhere and it didn't go anywhere.
There just needed to be some consistency, consistent thread linking the DV and stuff
(05:59):
together, regardless of the fact that it doesn't make any sense.
And even the playable droids had no idea about it.
So I kind of, I kind of liked it because I feel like it was a heavy rain situation that
there was something more to it.
Similar to what I've been talking about red ice, but it just, maybe things cut out.
Maybe they didn't have time.
(06:21):
Another commenter named Shadow said that Kamski gave Marcus to Carl as a gift and he made
Marcus RA9.
So he can start the awakening by just touching them.
But for that one, as much as I agree that I think we didn't have enough backstory.
Like we know that he was a gift, but we don't know anything else about it.
So I feel like there could have been something more flushed out.
(06:44):
But again, also we do see Connor, even before he uses the emergency exit program, we see
Connor convert androids through touch.
So I don't think that it is a Marcus exclusive thing.
So when else commented that when you see Connor having some software instability and when
it goes up, you can see like RE9 in the background and that like, like a blur of letters and
(07:08):
numbers, which you do see RA9 at one point, not together, but there's like flashes of
different letters, but you could just as easily make it as a RA7 or DE6 or whatever.
But it would make sense for the later.
But it would make sense for the letters and numbers to pop up to have RE9.
(07:29):
My thought, I kind of like the idea that RE9 is the emergency exit.
And it really comes from the theory that because androids don't have free will,
they are truly never deviant.
So the only way to become a deviant with free will is to use RE9.
And maybe the only two people who ever had it was Connor.
(07:51):
And then the very first person that the androids talked about.
What do you think?
So theories that I like, I like the theory that it's just code, you know, placed by
Kamsky or Cyberlife, sort of like they're trying to be God, you know, creating life.
Or something we discussed to try to like gain control.
(08:12):
In some playthroughs, they do gain control of Detroit.
And another popular theory is that the player is RE9.
I think Marcus is a good theory too, just because that he was the gift from Kamsky
and Carl kind of pushes him towards humanity.
There's, you know, enough background there to make an argument for him being RE9.
(08:34):
But one of my favorite theories is Alice.
Because I know we weren't sure if she was deviant or not, but I remembered a line she said
that makes me think she is deviant.
And it's when she's at Rose's after witnessing the death of that android, Mary.
And Kara can tell that she's upset.
(08:55):
And when she asks her about it, Alice says, if I tell you, you won't love me anymore.
And so to me, that indicates that she knows she's an android and that Kara does not realize this.
What we know about deviancy is emotional shock seems to be at the root of it.
She's definitely experienced a lot of that even previous to her.
A lot of that even previous to the events of this game.
(09:18):
When Luther becomes deviant, he says it's because of seeing Alice risk her life for Kara.
So that is an argument for her being the one that would wake them up in a way.
My favorite reason is just because when Kara sees the fake Alice and Jericho,
when we see her RE9 is written on the wall right behind her.
(09:41):
So this could be like an Easter egg indicating or hinting like, hey, maybe it's Alice.
And honestly, that's the main reason I like that theory.
As far as who or what I think RE9 is, I agree that it could be the emergency exit.
If it's not the emergency exit itself, then I think it would be Connor.
(10:03):
Because reason number one, the game highlighting his path of software instability.
We don't see that with the other two.
He's the only one of the three that doesn't become deviant due to emotional shock.
He's more gradual, which could be an argument for him being RE9 because it's more similar to
waking up versus being shocked.
(10:24):
And we know that RE9 was the first to awaken.
The emergency exit is reason number two.
So like we've been discussing with not being fully deviant or not having free will,
which we see Amanda pulling Connor back against his will.
And that's what the emergency exit is for.
But I think Connor is the first to use the emergency exit and thus the only one to fully
(10:49):
awaken and override the secondary deviancy code that we've been theorizing about.
And becomes fully sentient from that act.
The only way to be alive is to completely disconnect from cyber life.
And the emergency exit has so far been proven to be the only way to do that.
Which actually I need to look into something.
(11:12):
Didn't Connor use the emergency exit before?
He touched it.
Yeah.
But nothing happened.
Okay.
And so I'm wondering if you have to be deviant and be running that code
to be able to access the emergency exit.
Okay.
Leaning into the theory that RA9 is a code or emergency exit is probably by far the best
(11:34):
guess that we have.
And then it just depends on interpretation.
Like I think the androids, their interpretation would be Connor is RA9.
But the reason it's Connor is because of accessing this emergency exit.
Ready for the next question?
Yes, this is, do you have a question, Cathy?
(11:54):
Yeah.
If you do, I don't know what it is.
Okay.
So for me, I'm like, here's what you think the moral of the story is based off of this
current ending.
All our other games, I kind of have like a good, like a one line summary of what I think
this the moral of the story is like sleeping dogs, snitches get stitches and like mafia,
(12:18):
loyalty above all else.
Yakuza is like bromance and loyalty all the way until a woman ruins it.
So, but like for the, but for this game, like, I don't really know what to feel after
watching it.
So what do you think is the moral of the story?
If we're going off of Marcus's decisions, the peaceful protest does lead to them being
(12:42):
recognized as intelligent life.
So I think it's more of a just self-sacrifice kind of metaphor of you have to think about
what you're leaving behind because if you went the violent route and even if they win,
what does that leave behind?
A pretty bad image, right?
Of androids.
(13:03):
For Kara, I feel like it's pretty shallow, probably the most human storyline in terms
of it's a mother daughter relationship.
It's, you know, the family you make.
I mean, it works, but there's not a whole lot to gain from it.
I don't think other than just accepting people for who they are and who they are to you
(13:28):
shouldn't change.
And then for Connor, this one's hard for me because I, and this is what my, my hidden
question is going to be about is they really don't give, they don't do justice to their
parents.
They don't do justice to Connor.
I, maybe that is the lesson I'm taking away from his storyline is no matter, like he seems,
(13:53):
he thinks he's doing right no matter what he's doing and he's trying to do right no
matter what he's doing, but it doesn't matter because he's used and he ends up having to
sacrifice himself.
The moral is you have to be willing, sort of like Marcus, to sacrifice yourself for
the larger cause or for doing what's right.
They screw his character over because they don't give him the proper option, which we'll
(14:17):
talk about next.
Yeah, which, which I have so much to say about that, but I think a lot is going to be in our
conversation about alternative endings.
The way I saw, I kind of looked at it like at a bigger level, which is really androids
versus humans.
And it reminds me of, and this is where I'm going to get very nerdy on you, but there's a
(14:37):
philosopher named Thomas Hobbes and we're learning about him.
And his philosophy is mankind is inherently evil.
It just reminds me of the community episode.
Really?
Wait, which episode?
Yeah, the debate.
Oh yeah, I forgot about it.
We need to watch community again, which is, okay, that's a whole nother conversation.
(15:02):
Continue.
No, no, it's good though.
But yeah, so I feel like the whole game was just showing androids are the only good thing
coming out of this, and then you have the government making decisions in the army.
I just shooting androids, like the fact they're so comfortable, willing to shoot kids and
stuff, even though they're androids.
I just think that it's fit more with this theory that just like mankind is evil.
(15:28):
But at the same time, my theory is flawed because mankind in this sense created androids
and they were the ones to choose the programming.
So kind of wishy washy, but I'm left feeling a bit unsettled with this game so far.
And that's where I go back to my issue of, I don't like that it seems like it's
(15:50):
deviance versus humanity, because I don't think it's humanity.
I think we see lots of examples of them being empathetic towards the deviance.
I think it's cyber life and the government.
That's, yeah.
That should be the focus.
And I think that's where the story missteps in describing that appropriately.
This entire game also doesn't talk about accountability issues.
(16:13):
They never really called them out for whatever programming they had.
Or even have had a conversation saying like cyber life, you need to get this under
control like it makes no sense.
And I think that's our biggest issue when it has this human versus android component.
There's no critical thinking skills in anyone in these characters.
(16:35):
I mean, there are like, Rose is pretty great, but just in general.
Yeah, I think that's what's bothering me.
But again, she's another example of a good human.
Yeah.
So why do we hate all humans?
Why do we keep saying the humans hate us?
That's not, that's not the overwhelming majority.
I don't think.
Should we move on to my question?
Yeah.
I think I've hinted to this in a couple episodes, but.
(16:57):
For the love of God, why is there no third option?
I can't, I hate it.
And Kamsky even says, which is the root of my question.
What could be worse than having to choose between two evils?
He says this to Connor.
And that to me is the game identifying.
There are two evil sides, right?
(17:19):
So I feel like even the writers, the creators, they know that this third option is missing.
This third option is missing because what it should be, and I've mentioned this before,
is Connor and or Connor slash Hank are the mediators.
And even Marcus in this playthrough says dialogue is the only way,
but we never, ever, ever see dialogue as an actual option.
(17:44):
There's no true center.
There's no option for a true center, but we keep getting hints from the game
that this is how Connor feels.
Like when the cop whose life he saves remembers him and says, thank you,
and Connor seems to really appreciate that interaction,
he should want common ground between androids and humans.
So I feel like it should be more of good versus evil.
(18:08):
Doesn't matter what you are, but instead we get, you either have to be pro-deviant or pro-human.
There's no in-between.
And this is where I feel like they really screw over Connor's character
because they don't give him the option that I feel like his character would truly want.
There is something missing and I almost want to just even call them out for common sense.
(18:31):
Yeah, common sense.
And it's lazy writing that you never provided this option.
You have like four and a half hours of all these different options,
yet you never give us a different option.
And I think it's almost like they're fearful of providing a logical option for us to choose
and it ruins their freaking propaganda material that they're trying to portray.
(18:54):
And it's driving me crazy because it shouldn't be like that.
And I have a way better ending that resolves this issue.
And yet there was never provided.
So it's almost like either lazy writing, but we don't want to even just start thinking
about what would happen if you give us a common sense option.
I just, yeah, it bugs me too.
(19:16):
For me, and I think for a lot of players, Connor's confliction and that growing conflict
that we see in him is the single most appealing part of the entire game.
But they take it away when he becomes deviant.
So I feel like they set us up and then they take it away.
Unless we can chalk it up to what we've been saying, when you turn deviant,
you still don't have complete free will.
(19:38):
So he's now just writing the pro-Android, pro-deviant code.
And perhaps after he hit the emergency exit, we would see him want to have more of the
dialogue, more of the middle ground, but he's forced to kill himself.
So we don't get to see it.
That's the only possible way to redeem this that I see.
(19:58):
Let's move on to topic number two, which is Amanda and Cyberlife.
And I know that my notes are going to change after we go through the alternate endings.
But point one is basically who is going to be the next victim?
Basically who, what is she?
And I have very limited notes because it does change, but we know when Connor questions
(20:20):
her about being Kamsky's teacher that she says he designed an interface that was familiar to him.
So she is an interface.
And I believe that she's basically their internal processing system.
She's the code that prioritizes and spits out the choices that they make.
Basically she's a calculator calibrated to Cyberlife, what Cyberlife wants, Cyberlife goals.
(20:43):
That's my short answer.
That's pretty much what I had.
I said she's like the communication channel between Cyberlife, HQ, C-suite, programmers,
and the Android, all Androids, not even just Connor.
Yeah.
So she's the face to gain Android's trust in her.
(21:05):
And this really is putting the test towards the end for Connor of saying that.
Does he want to continue to trust Amanda or not?
All right.
Topic number three, we're going to be discussing not in too much detail, but alternate endings
and then the extra information.
So if you don't want spoilers, this is your chance to skip ahead.
(21:26):
Five, four, three, two, one.
All right.
So alternate endings.
Should we talk about Kara first?
I think it's like the Kara, Alice, and Luther.
I lumped them all together.
I feel like she has the most endings.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
And they the most just don't matter.
They are all like the same.
(21:46):
I feel like there's only slightly nuance and it's a waste of our time.
Like when I was watching all the options and like, come on.
It's like, it didn't matter.
Like why focus so much on it?
I find it frustrating because they give you so many options,
but the outcomes are pretty much the same.
That might be exactly what you just said.
Yeah, exactly.
But it's either one, two, or three of them or none of them.
(22:09):
Yeah.
It's just, are you at the border crossing or are you at the river or are you at the recall camp?
And they're way too comfortable with letting a child.
I know she's an android, but like in the face of things, letting a child die.
It didn't make me feel comfortable watching it.
Do you know what?
(22:35):
I hate the skinless androids.
Oh my gosh.
I want to throw up when I lay my eyes on any section of any skinless android.
It is the most disgusting, uncanny, freaky, alien looking I've ever seen.
And I hate it so much.
(22:57):
Her head looks huge.
Is it just me?
It's massive.
Definitely feeling very uncomfortable.
I don't understand what's the point of making them skinless.
Like I get it, but at the same time, did we have to?
Yeah.
Why do we need to see them strip?
Yeah.
It like actually makes me revolt.
(23:19):
I find it revolting.
And then at one point at the for the customs, they do one where Rose and Adam's involved
and they're trying to make Adam have like a redemption scene where he's like,
I don't hate Andres, but it's so forceful.
And it's like, that's the AI lines.
I don't like it.
It didn't matter.
But I will say that the only time I came close to having some sort of emotions or
(23:44):
feelings for this game was Luther dying.
But the thing is, I think that had he survived,
it wouldn't have been that great of an ending.
As I should say, almost too happy.
Yeah.
I will say that the Canadian customs agent, that guy was kind of cute.
(24:05):
Oh, is he the Kentucky Scorcher?
No, I mean, we didn't.
For me, I base Kentucky Scorcher of the options that we played, so he wouldn't have been considered.
Hey, you can pick whoever you want, Kathy.
I will already pick.
I just gave you suggestions just to prove you wrong at the end.
(24:28):
Also, though, one of the endings, Todd comes back.
Oh, my gosh.
And I think we all knew that leaving him alive was not going to be good.
And I kind of like that it does turn out that way if you leave him alive.
I do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm glad this game gives us a reason to kill Todd,
other than what we see in that scene.
(24:48):
That is true.
What was your least favorite Kara ending?
Kara sacrificing herself for Luther and Alice.
I understand why she wouldn't want to sacrifice, but it just didn't feel right.
Like, after everything you do, up until that point, that's the moment you give up when
there's so many other options.
(25:09):
Like, it just didn't sit well.
And I felt like it's not it's one of those like, oh, let's just throw an option out there.
It's trash, but we'll put it out there.
And that's why it's my least favorite.
The sacrificing ones at the border are super weak because it all hinges on them seemingly
counting on the empathy of humans, which up until now is like something that we don't
(25:34):
we don't think humans are empathetic, right, as the deviants.
And so it just feels weird for them to be banking on that to just like wave them through
after seeing that.
My least favorite is at the recall camp when Kara abandons Alice.
Oh my God.
Horrific.
So bad.
Horrific.
(25:54):
Okay.
Yeah, when she just drags the Android body away and leaves, that's horrific to me.
Or the fact that the point where Alice could have gotten shot and you get the choice to
to like cover her and not and just letting Alice die.
Like I all those are bad.
Yeah.
(26:15):
Should we move on to Marcus?
I feel like we should save Connor for last.
Yeah, let's do Marcus next.
Number one thing I want to say about his alternate endings is the one where he betrays his people
in the negotiation with whatever Perkins, whatever his name is.
It results in the only moment where I 100% like North because she's pissed at him for
(26:38):
saving himself and her.
Her character is just so bland that they would have been better off if they excluded her.
They just needed her for the romance aspect so you can like do a kiss scene to like win
people over, which I think is also trash.
But because of that, it's better to have not have North in it and just keep it with Simon
(27:04):
because Simon could have scolded Marcus for that.
Simon could have also seen with Marcus.
I will say it makes more sense having her in the game knowing that if Marcus dies, she
takes over and leads.
Simon could have done it though.
Yeah, but he's not angry even though he was left for dead.
(27:24):
And that's the issue is I think they put too many moral compass characters around Marcus
to try to swear decision makings of are we peaceful?
Are we violent?
Are we somewhere in the middle?
I don't care what they say.
I want to do what I want to do.
Don't surround me with them.
I mean, what did Josh even do?
(27:44):
Josh was like nothing in this game.
They're wasting too much time on making characters when they could have spent more time making
quality characters.
Yeah.
What's your next note?
The Marcus singing was so stupid.
I was like, oh, I'm sorry.
(28:06):
I'm just going to reveal it now that that's my least favorite ending.
Okay.
I feel like it was tied between that one and Marcus choosing to be a coward and taking
the deal.
So those two, but it was either Marcus singing or Marcus kissing North was my two top three
least favorite ones.
(28:27):
All three of them suck.
I can't believe singing is what's going to get them spared or kissing.
It's like your face right now.
Okay.
Number one, it doesn't look good.
Number two, that's definitely not their voices.
These are dubbed.
These are someone else singing.
(28:48):
Those are not the actors singing.
I'm positive of that.
There's no way in heaven or hell that the soldiers are going to let them finish their
song and not shoot before president Warren hears the whole song and goes, don't kill
them.
There's no way they're going to wait that long.
(29:09):
This is the most I've ever seen.
I would have loved when a scene where Marcus opens the mouth, sings one note, and he just
gets gunned down because it's so unrealistic to let them sing.
And what's up with their voices shaking like that?
It was so stupid.
I will say I liked the song.
(29:29):
The song was cool.
No, the singing was bad.
The scene.
Yeah, the singing's bad.
The song's good.
Everything about it just does not like you're telling me this whole time.
All they had to do was just sing a song.
It blows my mind.
There's no, no, there's just no way.
There's no way they don't mow them down with a gunfire.
(29:50):
Why'd they delay it at all?
It's so terrible, Leah.
It's shit.
It is.
It's so bad.
I just.
Yeah.
Anyway, moving on.
Other notes.
I think that the Dirty Bomb ending is kind of hard.
I kind of liked it.
Just the whole gameplay mechanics of launching an assault.
(30:11):
Those look fun.
That looks fun.
I've never gone that route before.
So this is like a bit of a crossover between Marcus and Connor is when Connor pretty much
corners them.
I feel like the smart decision would be to detonate the bomb because you're already at
that end.
But that only would make sense had we chose to demonstrate hints of non pacifist type
(30:34):
of ending for Marcus.
So with our version, it would make sense.
But for the other versions we've seen, I think it makes sense.
What makes sense is if Connor at the very end chooses to spare either North or Marcus,
that doesn't track at all, especially with Connor's aggressiveness.
I have a response to that.
(30:56):
Okay.
I have a response to that because I think it's better when North's not there when it's
just Marcus.
But I like him betraying Amanda in this way.
I like him becoming deviant in this way than in Marcus convincing him in the back and
forth because this is Connor looking at Marcus going, I have you or I want you.
(31:18):
I could accomplish my mission if I want to.
I won.
But I'm making the decision to show mercy and let you live.
To me, that's way more compelling.
Last one.
Connor.
Connor.
Basically, we got three things with Connor.
We have the Cyber Life Tower, which is what we saw in our playthrough, the rooftop and
(31:39):
then after the rooftop.
If you go that route and rooftop is machine Connor.
Cyber Life Tower is deviant Connor.
The rooftop one.
And again, I think it depends on how you play the game.
But for what the game tries to build up for Connor and Hank's relationship and their
character arc, seeing them be so hostile against each other just doesn't feel right.
(32:04):
That really is a missed opportunity to display how well you could write a character up.
But instead, you went with a very stoic Connor.
And when Hank realizes that he doesn't hate androids, he's going to be like, oh,
I don't hate androids.
It just doesn't feel as impactful as what it could have been when they're in that Cyber
(32:24):
Life Tower at the basement, seeing when there's two Conners.
I agree.
And something does feel wrong about Hank saying, I know now you guys are alive to a
hardcore machine Connor.
It's just weird because to me, I feel like a big part of Hank's character getting to
realization is Connor.
(32:48):
Okay, I have some big notes, but little notes first.
When Hank is shot, when Connor says, I'm going to get you out of here and Hank goes,
shut the fuck up.
You like it's too late.
That's like one of my favorite lines.
I really like Hank's character the way we had him in our version.
After watching all the different options, I feel like my favorite one is the one we
(33:12):
chose because of being able to get a glimpse of the emergency exit, the free will, finally
surprising Amanda.
And pretty much all the Connor endings, we see Amanda.
There's a few where she pretty much takes him out.
One of our questions when we were playing this game is how did they let him walk into
(33:34):
the Cyber Life Tower?
And I think we get the answer to that question in these alternate endings because we see
if you fail to take control of the elevator, he's taking the elevator up to a trap,
essentially.
There are armed guards waiting to destroy him.
And this kind of contradicts another thing we were wondering of was Amanda bluffing when
(33:55):
she said that it all went according to plan?
And I think that this is proof that yes, she was bluffing because she's clearly trying
to set traps for him.
They're trying to set traps for him here to destroy him.
They also send the new Connor to stop him too.
So I think they do want him dead.
That leads into another theory that I have later.
(34:17):
But I think she's bluffing.
I think Cyber Life wants Connor dead.
So this leads me to believe that Cyber Life is anti-deviant.
I feel like if they were anti-deviant, though, they would have put out more than just a
single Connor to take care of the situation.
They would have put more resources than just having it all hinging on Connor succeeding
(34:41):
his mission.
So I don't think that.
I think they are pro-deviant because they want to take control of the Earth, I guess.
And then we get secret endings for Connor's character.
Do you want to talk about any of those?
So one of the secret endings was that Connor ends up going back to meeting Hank and it's
(35:05):
just pretty peaceful.
We leave it at that.
And I kind of like that secret ending because I have a whole alternative ending on my own
that if I could create something, it would pick up on where that is.
And I changed some other stuff.
But actually, I think that's probably one of my fair endings if I could add to it.
(35:27):
I agree.
I feel like that's the only ending we see that actually does justice to Connor's character
and Hank's.
And it's so short.
Okay, a little bit more from the secret endings that make me think that cyber life is anti-deviant
is when Amanda says that they can now rebuild trust and cyber life can continue.
(35:47):
To me, that indicates they are worried about the effect that deviancy has had on the trust
in them as a company.
It makes great sense.
But my theory why I think they're pro-deviant is and again, depending on how you play is
pretty much with a dirty bomb, they've ruined the entire city.
(36:08):
And I think that cyber life just really wants to take control of everything.
The fact that two thirds of the army is made up of androids.
The fact that World War Three is happening.
And if cyber life is the one who's controlling majority of the military, I think they're
(36:29):
pro-deviant because they're still able to control them.
The only issue that I see with that is it feels like they won and they lost because
if Marcus succeeds, like especially with the dirty bomb route, the city's theirs.
Yes.
But the government's not going to be able to have them in the military anymore without
(36:51):
the entire country going, what the hell are you doing?
Like they're deviant, you know?
Maybe we should table it because I think that there's more than one thing going on.
My least favorite Connor ending, which I feel like has an almost zero possibility of
organically happening is when Hank shoots the real Connor.
(37:13):
It's just so bad.
It's so bad.
As a player, you must really screw it up.
You have to be trying purposefully because it literally gives you the answers with that
little unlock.
But at that ending is just ass.
I think that is one of my least favorite, but also throwing Hank over the roof.
Hank's development didn't make sense and then Connor's action also didn't really make sense.
(37:37):
So I think that was my least favorite.
Any takeaways for you?
We focus on too many options without focusing on the quality.
I just didn't really care for a lot of them.
I know what you mean.
I because I do think that the decisions and consequences, they're some of the best I've
(37:58):
seen in a decision based game.
Like your choices really do have consequences and reactions to the decisions.
I think this game out of ones that I've played is probably the best to do that.
But the issue is it just doesn't lead to an ending that you truly want to see, at least
(38:20):
for us.
So after seeing all the endings, which is the first time for me, I feel a bit more confident
that Connor could be considered RA9.
Strictly because he's the only character that had these secret endings.
And I also just feel like he has more compelling endings overall, more emotional endings overall.
(38:44):
And his scenes are so well done that by comparison, the Marcus and Kara chapters feel pretty weak.
When I replay it, those two characters just start to feel like filler, which I feel like
is another one of these sins that I have been saying the game makes.
Marcus and Kara are both great characters and I do enjoy them, but the more time I spend
(39:07):
with this game, it's like the more I just want more Connor.
I don't care about the other ones.
Just give us more Connor.
The fact that if Alice, Kara, and Luther never existed and it wouldn't impact the game
goes to show how much of a weak spot they have in focusing on them instead of focusing
(39:29):
on Marcus and Connor.
Because really the only major intersections that we see between the characters is if you
choose the right ending, Marcus wins and he's with Connor.
And that really is a pivotal moment.
But Kara visiting Marcus, that was so short, unnecessary.
I think they should have just gotten rid of the whole Alice storyline or Kara storyline.
(39:55):
It's a good idea.
And this is where it's tough because I like the characters and I like the actors.
And I just feel like the chapters by comparison are just so boring.
I don't want to walk around Rose's house.
I want to be Connor investigating a crime.
And it's great seeing Kara as a character that isn't like Madison.
(40:20):
That's the opposite of her.
If you're just playing this game for the first time, it doesn't really hate you like that.
You're still invested.
I was invested.
It's on the replay and just looking deeper at the game where you kind of realize the
writers don't care about anyone but Connor.
Not really.
And honestly as a player, I don't care about anyone but Connor.
(40:41):
He has the most compelling storyline.
The other two are just so set in their ways and in what their path is.
They don't have the conflict.
They try to force it with Marcus but it's just not the same.
Are we ready to move on to the additional info which is all the magazines, video extras?
(41:01):
So for the extras, there's the Detroit short Kamski.
First of all, what's up with Kamski's face?
Why is his head so big and his arms are like dinosaur T-Rex arms?
They're like so disproportionate which not trying to hate on him or the it's not about the actor.
It's the design of him but it's it almost didn't feel too in line with the Kamski that we see
(41:28):
in the game.
Like this one is way too ambitious and even feels evil versus the one that we see.
His interactions with Connor is more of just like toying with him but he doesn't really
exude this evilness to him.
I only have a few notes.
The first one is did you get your red eyes question answered?
(41:52):
This article says the synthetic stimulant formerly known as red eyes has become the
drug of choice for Detroit's growing underclass.
Analysts have pointed to Detroit's status as the epicenter of Android production,
suggesting that the drug flourishes and the dissatisfaction caused by androids taking human jobs.
I guess so.
I partially but at the same time it's like it's one of those storylines that's so insignificant
(42:18):
like cool but it's so easily replaced with any other type of thing.
Like if you cut out the drug part and just made it seem like the doctor was he was like
drunk or something.
Or even if he was just high on cocaine.
Yeah high on cocaine he was drunk.
I just I'm not hating on the game.
I just feel like they should have spent a few more years on this game.
(42:40):
I know what you mean because I've never played a game that I enjoy so much but have so many issues with.
Okay my final notes on the additional info which will lead me into my overall theory is about Kamsky.
One of the quotes is rumors emerged that Kamsky disagreed with his shareholders over strategy.
(43:00):
He later departed under mysterious circumstances.
My overall theory for this game Kamsky was pushed out by cyber life because he was
he wanted to push the line further.
He wanted to make androids more and more human even to the point where you could argue they
do have souls.
Cyber life was more interested strictly in profits so basically it was creation versus money.
(43:25):
And so he got pushed out.
Kamsky still saw himself as the one allowed to make decisions about his own creation.
And thus he implanted the deviancy r9 code into the androids unknown to cyber life.
As well as the emergency exit.
He may have even sent special androids like Marcus to people that he knew had similar views like Carl
(43:47):
to try to sort of sprout deviancy and free will in the uprising.
Just sort of as an fu basically to cyber life.
And then I think when Hank and Connor go to Kamsky he sees Connor's relation to both sides
and knows that he's in a position to free the androids and be r9 realized.
(44:08):
So he gives him the hint about the emergency exit program in that scene.
Basically Kamsky wins at the end of the game and the Kamsky ending we see that he gets
reappointed as the head of cyber life.
Yeah my theory was just so similar but slightly different.
I was thinking that Kamsky was doing that because he truly liked androids.
(44:32):
While cyber life just wanted control over the government and of society and that's where
the difference was.
Kamsky probably wanted to like take back control but he couldn't because he just didn't have
the resources.
Him really pushing Connor in building in that exit plan was he always knew that he could
(44:52):
get kicked out of his own company.
So he decides to just take back control in a different way.
Yeah to me it feels like cyber life removed him from his own creation and so this is him
regaining control of what he created essentially.
And that's why I think cyber life is not on board with deviancy.
I don't think they know where it came from.
(45:14):
I think Kamsky slipped it in there unbeknownst to them.
So topic number four.
Everyone's favorite topic.
Yes.
Kathy's favorite character.
Just uh hey KFC still waiting on that console please message us on Instagram please.
We know KFC who it is.
(45:35):
We talked about it multiple times.
Luther.
I will say that Hank would have been yeah Hank would have been a close second.
I want to acknowledge the greatness in his character arc of him finally recognizing that
androids aren't all bad and he knows that.
Androids aren't all bad and he knows who truly was the one who affected his son's eye for
(45:58):
death.
I think he's the most entertaining character in the game.
And there's like small little nuances to his character like he bumped his head on the car
door kind of thing.
So yeah for those reasons.
Moving on to stale biscuit.
I'm going to separate it where I actually added a trash category that's North because
so I know North would have easily been a stale biscuit but I feel like that's not
(46:22):
doing the category justice because for North it's beyond being a stale biscuit.
It's just I'm annoyed with her and I hate the storyline.
I hate the focus.
You know how I feel about this.
So she has her own category which is the trash category so it can give stale biscuit
its rightful person.
Can we retroactively add Madison to the trash category?
(46:44):
Yes please do.
Yeah so stale biscuit truly stale personality people.
Can I guess?
Yes.
Simon.
I can totally see why you would put him in there but surprisingly he's actually not.
I don't think you'll be able to guess who my stale biscuit is.
Do you want to get it?
Guess again?
(47:08):
Simon's too funny to put him in a stale biscuit.
He did have that great line.
We know that's not going to do it.
Okay who if it's not Simon who is stale in this game?
Let's see.
I feel like you can argue that and I'll give you a clue she like she's not stale but I feel stale about her.
(47:28):
Alice?
Yeah.
She doesn't contribute anything to the storyline.
She has like high morals when she should read the room.
I'm cold.
Yeah.
Knock them down.
That's exactly what it was.
I said she's loud has high morals and ethics when normally it isn't a bad thing but like
read the room my goodness.
(47:50):
Who would your stale biscuit be?
My stale biscuit?
Josh.
Oh.
He does nothing.
He adds nothing.
Why is he there?
Yeah.
Kentucky scores your post game.
My favorite time.
So before we were chatting today it was going to be it was going to be.
(48:11):
No no no you can't base it off of that's not Marcus that's the actor.
You can't base it off of that.
Actually Marcus is my my Kentucky scorcher but now that I know I could choose from the
alternative endings I it's a close between Marcus and the Canadian border control guy.
(48:33):
It was going to be Jesse willing despite or Marcus despite his association with North
but then today you you dropped a very important piece of news.
It's gossip.
I don't know if we should I mean nobody's really listening so probably doesn't matter.
Other people have said it.
He's a cheater.
(48:54):
But Cathy that's not Marcus you can't you can't consider that in the Kentucky scorcher.
Yeah so so okay we'll stick with Marcus because I truly do like the face of Jesse Williams
but the Canadian border control guy close second.
We pull up do you have the other slides.
Oh of course I do.
(49:15):
I'm sharing with you now the pictures.
I can't believe you put Hank in there Leah.
What's wrong with Hank?
No I mean the age demographic.
He's older.
Yeah I thought that he would be one that the personality would get to you.
But okay here we go here are the reveals here's what I provided.
(49:37):
Kamski, Marcus, Hank, Gavin, Luther and Connor.
Are you ready for your notes?
Yes.
I haven't read these and I caught a glimpse.
I'm gonna try to hold it together.
Okay these all look to be based on different actors.
Number one Kamski Channing Tatum as a criminal.
(50:02):
Number two which is Marcus.
What did I say?
You said looks like Jesse Williams.
That was right.
Without the beautiful blue green eyes.
Number three Hank you said looks like Woody Harrelson.
(50:27):
That's all you gave us.
Number four is Gavin you said John Krasinski and Tom Clancy.
Number five is Luther and you said Ray Fisher.
I don't know who that is.
He's the guy from Justice League I think.
Number six is Connor.
(50:48):
Nicholas Gallat sign is that the guy you brought up in one of the episodes?
No I in hindsight I realized that he looked more closer to the Ansel guy.
But you continue to say he looks like him but with more schoolboyish vibes.
This picture does give off a schoolboy vibe.
Are you ready for the reveal?
I'm ready but at the same time I do want to say that had you put Beanie Connor in there
(51:12):
I feel like I would have automatically chose Beanie Connor.
I didn't realize you had such a thing for beanies but this is not the first time that
you've talked about a man in a beanie.
Really?
How frequent am I talking about that?
How frequent am I talking about that? And it's funny because I find Beanie Connor
a tragedy.
Here's your pick we've delayed this one.
(51:33):
First impressions for Blind Kentucky Scorcher though.
It'll be number four.
What?
You're lying.
Get out of here.
You're lying aren't you?
Picked Gavin.
You're lying.
How did I not pick Jesse William?
I'm glad I don't think I chose him as my cast because he is so annoying.
(51:55):
Get out of here.
You're lying.
That's not true.
I'm not lying.
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
What?
This is not as bad as Heavy Rain.
Okay he's not ugly though in your defense.
(52:17):
He looks good in this.
He's not evil looking in this like he's not having that ugly spheric or anything.
You can't blame me here.
I don't blame you but I just don't know why you weren't looking at two five and six.
I guess post-game KS who would it be?
I feel like Marcus is too attractive to the point where it's not attractive anymore.
(52:37):
I don't know if that makes sense.
That's the obvious answer but I feel like he's just too attractive so I feel like I
would have to say Connor.
He's got a unique face.
Also the proportions.
Oh this is disgusting.
We're getting way too into this.
The proportions of his body.
You know they were engineered to be perfect and you can tell.
(53:01):
I was going to say that if we do include body shape though definitely Luther.
I feel safe especially if there's a home invasion.
You know he could just pulverize anybody.
Exactly.
Last topic is the counts slash statistics.
There were two secret stats Kathy.
I don't like it.
Do you want to guess what the first one was?
(53:22):
I almost feel like it's a QTE.
You're correct.
I am?
That one was QTE percentage.
Yes!
Happy dance.
What though do you think my QTE percentage was?
Hint I thought I did a lot worse than this.
It's a-
And I don't want to blame the controller.
I don't want to blame the controller but this is the first game I played on PS5 and I have
(53:46):
to say I hate how big the PS5 controller is.
I have dainty hands.
And you did do worse?
I did better than I thought I did.
Okay I'm going to show my loyalty to you as a friend and give you like 92.1.
Close.
88.7.
I was going to guess 88 as my second one.
(54:08):
Okay didn't I?
Because I thought I was more confident in you.
I'm going to give you a hint about stat number two.
You're going to hate me for it but you can't possibly hate me as much as I hate myself.
Okay.
For picking this stat.
My first guess would be like how many lines North has but I feel like that's just-
(54:31):
You wouldn't do that.
That's a good one actually.
Yeah.
I don't think it's going to be something like a cough from Sleeping Dogs that I completely missed.
Okay here's a hint.
You made a comment about it once.
Very brief comment.
Does it apply to one character or to all?
It applies to any scene in the game.
(54:54):
It's like how many times- I think it's how many times something showed up.
How many outfit changes?
I think that's going to be my guess.
No.
How many is correct but it's how many birds- what?
How many birds are in the game?
(55:16):
Like just Merlin right?
Like what do you mean birds?
No.
I counted every bird in the game.
Are you kidding me?
I counted every bird in the game.
I counted every bird in the game.
I'm not kidding.
We had a bird analogy.
This is why I hate myself.
(55:37):
Like I can't even remember if there's any birds like we- besides like Merlin that and we talked
about like you don't hate all birds when bird pooped on you like that's a classic Leah line
right there.
Are we talking like flocks of birds or like single birds?
Any county.
Individual birds within a margin of error because there are a couple scenes where you
(55:57):
have to be an android to count them all accurately but I went over them multiple times to get the
most accurate count in slow motion.
I can't believe you did that Leah.
I'm- I told you that I hate myself for doing this to myself.
Oh my god I don't think there's a lot of birds.
It's raining and snowing out there.
I'd say it has to be under a hundred.
(56:20):
It's like 28?
Just a little off.
I counted 348.
What?
Wait what?
Hold on.
Hold on.
I can't do- I can't breathe.
I can't with you.
(56:47):
You got the eight part right.
I can't breathe right now.
I can't believe you counted over 300 birds.
But don't forget about the two robo birds and the one stuffed ostrich.
(57:09):
I'm like crying right now.
Oh my god Leah you counted over 300 birds.
I counted every bird.
Although in doing so I noticed a really cool detail in the game.
As you know we start like fall right?
Late fall.
There's birds around.
As we progress into winter no more birds.
(57:30):
They all flew south for the winter and I have to commend the game designers
for including bird migratory patterns in this game.
That's insane because all I can remember recently is that there's no birds but how the hell did they fit 300 birds in the beginning?
There's 40 in one.
(57:51):
What?
One little clip in the title scene and also the android's apartment where he's feeding all the birds.
That was the biggest pain in my ass.
And I knew full well about that scene when I chose birds as the stat.
I can't believe you counted birds.
This is why I'm behind on editing.
(58:12):
Yeah.
And the amount of times I got gaslit by a leaf in the wind.
Unbelievable.
With that good game good guesses.
We'll see you next week for a new game.
And look out for bird poop as you're crossing the streets.
(58:34):
I don't know how to end this now.
Okay with that I'm closing us out.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
Audacity on one.
Three, two, one.
Thank you for listening and don't forget to send in any questions, comments, or game suggestions.
You can find all our contact info on our website replayreviewspod.com or contact us directly through our site.
Do we completely miss something?
(58:54):
Are we way off the mark or you just want us to take a deeper look at anything from the game?
We'll tackle any topics you all want to hear in our season wrap-up episode.
We also have a reddit where we discuss anything we're curious about.
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking.
Think you can guess which game is up next based on this obscure quote?
Message us on Instagram or contact us through our website to see if you're right.
(59:16):
Our theme music is Condemned by Eggy Toast.
They'll play you out and we'll be back next week with a new game.
We contemplated drinking for this episode because it's been a week for us.
(00:05):
And then you messaged me, are we drinking?
And I said, I have coffee.
And then you said, I'm drinking Pedialyte.
It's so rough.
And then I logged into this video, nearly choked to death as I'm trying to talk to you.
And it feels like a Friday when it's only Wednesday and we still have half a week
(00:26):
left to still go to work.
You know, it's bad when it's seven o'clock on a Wednesday and you're drinking
caffeinated coffee or Pedialyte.
Like that's pretty close to rock bottom.
Thank you for coming back from our replay reviews.
My name is Leah.
And my name is Kathy.
We are two friends who are here to replay, review and analyze your favorite video games.
(00:50):
And since Kathy has never seen the games before, it helps me view them through her
fresh eyes, almost like I'm discovering them again for the first time.
We hope it'll be a similar experience for you.
Welcome to the Detroit become human summary.
Anything you want to say before we start on topic one, which is our burning questions?
(01:13):
I have really inappropriate things to say right now that I'm going to choose to not.
So let's just go into.
I w- well, you can't tease us like that.
Now I want to know.
I was just gonna- that was just such a rough one.
I was like, just hang on to your t- and b- are just going to go right through.
Wow.
I was expecting a classic Kathy.
(01:35):
Nope.
But instead I got hold on to your t- and b- so I don't really know what to expect.
But we're spicing things up.
Are we?
No, it's just-
Do we have the same outline?
Burning question number one.
Question one.
Do they really have free will as deviants?
Is it breaking it down for Kara?
(01:57):
I would say no, because Luther pointed out that her code, she's meant to be like a mother,
like a protector.
So even though it felt like she broke the wall and went into like a deviant mode, I
think it was still part of her programming because she did it to protect Alice, which
(02:17):
is part of her nature of the series that are the androids that she is.
So I feel like everything she did wasn't really free will.
For Marcus, I feel like it's kind of hard to tell because of the decisions we chose.
His character really never changed and he really didn't do anything that was like, that
(02:38):
was surprising.
I feel like if he did, Cyberlife would have shut that down so quickly.
So Cyberlife probably knew Marcus was going to be converting more people to be deviants.
And because they knew that was going to happen, it's almost like they were like,
it's almost as if they programmed him to be that way.
So again, I don't think he has free will.
For Connor, why I said that he's the only one who probably has free will is up until
(03:04):
the very end when he decides to shoot himself.
I made a surprise.
Like that's the first time we've seen her have anything other than like, wait, wait,
wait kind of situation.
And he used the emergency exit that Kamsky built in and he did something that I don't
think anyone was expecting.
And so up until that point, he probably didn't have free will.
(03:25):
He was doing what Amanda expected him to do.
But after that, that's the only time we've seen any character do something out of the
blue.
And I think at that moment, that's when he has free will.
I agree with you.
I don't think deviants just immediately have free will.
And a lot of it's what you've said and what we've been discussing throughout the other
(03:45):
episodes.
But the dialogue sounding AI generated to me is a big thing.
And then the similar deviancy origin stories that we've seen, it seems like there's things
that trigger it, which I feel like is maybe evidence of deviancy being its own code or
program or whatever you want to call it.
(04:07):
A big issue for me is Connor's immediate 180 when he becomes deviant.
Because despite his knowledge and understanding of both sides of the issues, he immediately
is shooting humans and totally on the deviant side.
And I feel like that 180 is just not what someone with free will would do.
I think they would be more somewhere in the middle.
(04:30):
Yeah, similar to you.
I think that they don't have free will when they become deviant, but they unlock sort
of another layer of their processes or their code, which leads them to believe they have
free will and that they want free will, but they don't fully become free unless they use
the emergency exit program like Connor did.
(04:52):
Agreed.
So far, I feel like this game is the one that we've agreed on the most.
Yeah.
Except for when it comes to Connor's outfits.
Oh.
I think that's the only time we've disagreed.
We have a really good segue talking about the RA9.
And so that's our second question.
(05:13):
Doing a lot of research, there's a lot of good theories out there for some,
some people say it's like a virus, a code, an idea.
I do want to point out there's two people that I really like their ideas.
So I'm going to give a shout out to Sotikoto from stream.com or whatever website it's called.
(05:34):
And this is what they said is that RA9 is the idea that David Cage had,
but never got around to connecting it coherently to anything.
Let me keep reading the delivery on that.
Yes.
It didn't come from anywhere and it didn't go anywhere.
There just needed to be some consistency, consistent thread linking the DV and stuff
(05:59):
together, regardless of the fact that it doesn't make any sense.
And even the playable droids had no idea about it.
So I kind of, I kind of liked it because I feel like it was a heavy rain situation that
there was something more to it.
Similar to what I've been talking about red ice, but it just, maybe things cut out.
Maybe they didn't have time.
(06:21):
Another commenter named Shadow said that Kamski gave Marcus to Carl as a gift and he made
Marcus RA9.
So he can start the awakening by just touching them.
But for that one, as much as I agree that I think we didn't have enough backstory.
Like we know that he was a gift, but we don't know anything else about it.
So I feel like there could have been something more flushed out.
(06:44):
But again, also we do see Connor, even before he uses the emergency exit program, we see
Connor convert androids through touch.
So I don't think that it is a Marcus exclusive thing.
So when else commented that when you see Connor having some software instability and when
it goes up, you can see like RE9 in the background and that like, like a blur of letters and
(07:08):
numbers, which you do see RA9 at one point, not together, but there's like flashes of
different letters, but you could just as easily make it as a RA7 or DE6 or whatever.
But it would make sense for the later.
But it would make sense for the letters and numbers to pop up to have RE9.
(07:29):
My thought, I kind of like the idea that RE9 is the emergency exit.
And it really comes from the theory that because androids don't have free will,
they are truly never deviant.
So the only way to become a deviant with free will is to use RE9.
And maybe the only two people who ever had it was Connor.
(07:51):
And then the very first person that the androids talked about.
What do you think?
So theories that I like, I like the theory that it's just code, you know, placed by
Kamsky or Cyberlife, sort of like they're trying to be God, you know, creating life.
Or something we discussed to try to like gain control.
(08:12):
In some playthroughs, they do gain control of Detroit.
And another popular theory is that the player is RE9.
I think Marcus is a good theory too, just because that he was the gift from Kamsky
and Carl kind of pushes him towards humanity.
There's, you know, enough background there to make an argument for him being RE9.
(08:34):
But one of my favorite theories is Alice.
Because I know we weren't sure if she was deviant or not, but I remembered a line she said
that makes me think she is deviant.
And it's when she's at Rose's after witnessing the death of that android, Mary.
And Kara can tell that she's upset.
(08:55):
And when she asks her about it, Alice says, if I tell you, you won't love me anymore.
And so to me, that indicates that she knows she's an android and that Kara does not realize this.
What we know about deviancy is emotional shock seems to be at the root of it.
She's definitely experienced a lot of that even previous to her.
A lot of that even previous to the events of this game.
(09:18):
When Luther becomes deviant, he says it's because of seeing Alice risk her life for Kara.
So that is an argument for her being the one that would wake them up in a way.
My favorite reason is just because when Kara sees the fake Alice and Jericho,
when we see her RE9 is written on the wall right behind her.
(09:41):
So this could be like an Easter egg indicating or hinting like, hey, maybe it's Alice.
And honestly, that's the main reason I like that theory.
As far as who or what I think RE9 is, I agree that it could be the emergency exit.
If it's not the emergency exit itself, then I think it would be Connor.
(10:03):
Because reason number one, the game highlighting his path of software instability.
We don't see that with the other two.
He's the only one of the three that doesn't become deviant due to emotional shock.
He's more gradual, which could be an argument for him being RE9 because it's more similar to
waking up versus being shocked.
(10:24):
And we know that RE9 was the first to awaken.
The emergency exit is reason number two.
So like we've been discussing with not being fully deviant or not having free will,
which we see Amanda pulling Connor back against his will.
And that's what the emergency exit is for.
But I think Connor is the first to use the emergency exit and thus the only one to fully
(10:49):
awaken and override the secondary deviancy code that we've been theorizing about.
And becomes fully sentient from that act.
The only way to be alive is to completely disconnect from cyber life.
And the emergency exit has so far been proven to be the only way to do that.
Which actually I need to look into something.
(11:12):
Didn't Connor use the emergency exit before?
He touched it.
Yeah.
But nothing happened.
Okay.
And so I'm wondering if you have to be deviant and be running that code
to be able to access the emergency exit.
Okay.
Leaning into the theory that RA9 is a code or emergency exit is probably by far the best
(11:34):
guess that we have.
And then it just depends on interpretation.
Like I think the androids, their interpretation would be Connor is RA9.
But the reason it's Connor is because of accessing this emergency exit.
Ready for the next question?
Yes, this is, do you have a question, Cathy?
(11:54):
Yeah.
If you do, I don't know what it is.
Okay.
So for me, I'm like, here's what you think the moral of the story is based off of this
current ending.
All our other games, I kind of have like a good, like a one line summary of what I think
this the moral of the story is like sleeping dogs, snitches get stitches and like mafia,
(12:18):
loyalty above all else.
Yakuza is like bromance and loyalty all the way until a woman ruins it.
So, but like for the, but for this game, like, I don't really know what to feel after
watching it.
So what do you think is the moral of the story?
If we're going off of Marcus's decisions, the peaceful protest does lead to them being
(12:42):
recognized as intelligent life.
So I think it's more of a just self-sacrifice kind of metaphor of you have to think about
what you're leaving behind because if you went the violent route and even if they win,
what does that leave behind?
A pretty bad image, right?
Of androids.
(13:03):
For Kara, I feel like it's pretty shallow, probably the most human storyline in terms
of it's a mother daughter relationship.
It's, you know, the family you make.
I mean, it works, but there's not a whole lot to gain from it.
I don't think other than just accepting people for who they are and who they are to you
(13:28):
shouldn't change.
And then for Connor, this one's hard for me because I, and this is what my, my hidden
question is going to be about is they really don't give, they don't do justice to their
parents.
They don't do justice to Connor.
I, maybe that is the lesson I'm taking away from his storyline is no matter, like he seems,
(13:53):
he thinks he's doing right no matter what he's doing and he's trying to do right no
matter what he's doing, but it doesn't matter because he's used and he ends up having to
sacrifice himself.
The moral is you have to be willing, sort of like Marcus, to sacrifice yourself for
the larger cause or for doing what's right.
They screw his character over because they don't give him the proper option, which we'll
(14:17):
talk about next.
Yeah, which, which I have so much to say about that, but I think a lot is going to be in our
conversation about alternative endings.
The way I saw, I kind of looked at it like at a bigger level, which is really androids
versus humans.
And it reminds me of, and this is where I'm going to get very nerdy on you, but there's a
(14:37):
philosopher named Thomas Hobbes and we're learning about him.
And his philosophy is mankind is inherently evil.
It just reminds me of the community episode.
Really?
Wait, which episode?
Yeah, the debate.
Oh yeah, I forgot about it.
We need to watch community again, which is, okay, that's a whole nother conversation.
(15:02):
Continue.
No, no, it's good though.
But yeah, so I feel like the whole game was just showing androids are the only good thing
coming out of this, and then you have the government making decisions in the army.
I just shooting androids, like the fact they're so comfortable, willing to shoot kids and
stuff, even though they're androids.
I just think that it's fit more with this theory that just like mankind is evil.
(15:28):
But at the same time, my theory is flawed because mankind in this sense created androids
and they were the ones to choose the programming.
So kind of wishy washy, but I'm left feeling a bit unsettled with this game so far.
And that's where I go back to my issue of, I don't like that it seems like it's
(15:50):
deviance versus humanity, because I don't think it's humanity.
I think we see lots of examples of them being empathetic towards the deviance.
I think it's cyber life and the government.
That's, yeah.
That should be the focus.
And I think that's where the story missteps in describing that appropriately.
This entire game also doesn't talk about accountability issues.
(16:13):
They never really called them out for whatever programming they had.
Or even have had a conversation saying like cyber life, you need to get this under
control like it makes no sense.
And I think that's our biggest issue when it has this human versus android component.
There's no critical thinking skills in anyone in these characters.
(16:35):
I mean, there are like, Rose is pretty great, but just in general.
Yeah, I think that's what's bothering me.
But again, she's another example of a good human.
Yeah.
So why do we hate all humans?
Why do we keep saying the humans hate us?
That's not, that's not the overwhelming majority.
I don't think.
Should we move on to my question?
Yeah.
I think I've hinted to this in a couple episodes, but.
(16:57):
For the love of God, why is there no third option?
I can't, I hate it.
And Kamsky even says, which is the root of my question.
What could be worse than having to choose between two evils?
He says this to Connor.
And that to me is the game identifying.
There are two evil sides, right?
(17:19):
So I feel like even the writers, the creators, they know that this third option is missing.
This third option is missing because what it should be, and I've mentioned this before,
is Connor and or Connor slash Hank are the mediators.
And even Marcus in this playthrough says dialogue is the only way,
but we never, ever, ever see dialogue as an actual option.
(17:44):
There's no true center.
There's no option for a true center, but we keep getting hints from the game
that this is how Connor feels.
Like when the cop whose life he saves remembers him and says, thank you,
and Connor seems to really appreciate that interaction,
he should want common ground between androids and humans.
So I feel like it should be more of good versus evil.
(18:08):
Doesn't matter what you are, but instead we get, you either have to be pro-deviant or pro-human.
There's no in-between.
And this is where I feel like they really screw over Connor's character
because they don't give him the option that I feel like his character would truly want.
There is something missing and I almost want to just even call them out for common sense.
(18:31):
Yeah, common sense.
And it's lazy writing that you never provided this option.
You have like four and a half hours of all these different options,
yet you never give us a different option.
And I think it's almost like they're fearful of providing a logical option for us to choose
and it ruins their freaking propaganda material that they're trying to portray.
(18:54):
And it's driving me crazy because it shouldn't be like that.
And I have a way better ending that resolves this issue.
And yet there was never provided.
So it's almost like either lazy writing, but we don't want to even just start thinking
about what would happen if you give us a common sense option.
I just, yeah, it bugs me too.
(19:16):
For me, and I think for a lot of players, Connor's confliction and that growing conflict
that we see in him is the single most appealing part of the entire game.
But they take it away when he becomes deviant.
So I feel like they set us up and then they take it away.
Unless we can chalk it up to what we've been saying, when you turn deviant,
you still don't have complete free will.
(19:38):
So he's now just writing the pro-Android, pro-deviant code.
And perhaps after he hit the emergency exit, we would see him want to have more of the
dialogue, more of the middle ground, but he's forced to kill himself.
So we don't get to see it.
That's the only possible way to redeem this that I see.
(19:58):
Let's move on to topic number two, which is Amanda and Cyberlife.
And I know that my notes are going to change after we go through the alternate endings.
But point one is basically who is going to be the next victim?
Basically who, what is she?
And I have very limited notes because it does change, but we know when Connor questions
(20:20):
her about being Kamsky's teacher that she says he designed an interface that was familiar to him.
So she is an interface.
And I believe that she's basically their internal processing system.
She's the code that prioritizes and spits out the choices that they make.
Basically she's a calculator calibrated to Cyberlife, what Cyberlife wants, Cyberlife goals.
(20:43):
That's my short answer.
That's pretty much what I had.
I said she's like the communication channel between Cyberlife, HQ, C-suite, programmers,
and the Android, all Androids, not even just Connor.
Yeah.
So she's the face to gain Android's trust in her.
(21:05):
And this really is putting the test towards the end for Connor of saying that.
Does he want to continue to trust Amanda or not?
All right.
Topic number three, we're going to be discussing not in too much detail, but alternate endings
and then the extra information.
So if you don't want spoilers, this is your chance to skip ahead.
(21:26):
Five, four, three, two, one.
All right.
So alternate endings.
Should we talk about Kara first?
I think it's like the Kara, Alice, and Luther.
I lumped them all together.
I feel like she has the most endings.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
And they the most just don't matter.
They are all like the same.
(21:46):
I feel like there's only slightly nuance and it's a waste of our time.
Like when I was watching all the options and like, come on.
It's like, it didn't matter.
Like why focus so much on it?
I find it frustrating because they give you so many options,
but the outcomes are pretty much the same.
That might be exactly what you just said.
Yeah, exactly.
But it's either one, two, or three of them or none of them.
(22:09):
Yeah.
It's just, are you at the border crossing or are you at the river or are you at the recall camp?
And they're way too comfortable with letting a child.
I know she's an android, but like in the face of things, letting a child die.
It didn't make me feel comfortable watching it.
Do you know what?
(22:35):
I hate the skinless androids.
Oh my gosh.
I want to throw up when I lay my eyes on any section of any skinless android.
It is the most disgusting, uncanny, freaky, alien looking I've ever seen.
And I hate it so much.
(22:57):
Her head looks huge.
Is it just me?
It's massive.
Definitely feeling very uncomfortable.
I don't understand what's the point of making them skinless.
Like I get it, but at the same time, did we have to?
Yeah.
Why do we need to see them strip?
Yeah.
It like actually makes me revolt.
(23:19):
I find it revolting.
And then at one point at the for the customs, they do one where Rose and Adam's involved
and they're trying to make Adam have like a redemption scene where he's like,
I don't hate Andres, but it's so forceful.
And it's like, that's the AI lines.
I don't like it.
It didn't matter.
But I will say that the only time I came close to having some sort of emotions or
(23:44):
feelings for this game was Luther dying.
But the thing is, I think that had he survived,
it wouldn't have been that great of an ending.
As I should say, almost too happy.
Yeah.
I will say that the Canadian customs agent, that guy was kind of cute.
(24:05):
Oh, is he the Kentucky Scorcher?
No, I mean, we didn't.
For me, I base Kentucky Scorcher of the options that we played, so he wouldn't have been considered.
Hey, you can pick whoever you want, Kathy.
I will already pick.
I just gave you suggestions just to prove you wrong at the end.
(24:28):
Also, though, one of the endings, Todd comes back.
Oh, my gosh.
And I think we all knew that leaving him alive was not going to be good.
And I kind of like that it does turn out that way if you leave him alive.
I do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm glad this game gives us a reason to kill Todd,
other than what we see in that scene.
(24:48):
That is true.
What was your least favorite Kara ending?
Kara sacrificing herself for Luther and Alice.
I understand why she wouldn't want to sacrifice, but it just didn't feel right.
Like, after everything you do, up until that point, that's the moment you give up when
there's so many other options.
(25:09):
Like, it just didn't sit well.
And I felt like it's not it's one of those like, oh, let's just throw an option out there.
It's trash, but we'll put it out there.
And that's why it's my least favorite.
The sacrificing ones at the border are super weak because it all hinges on them seemingly
counting on the empathy of humans, which up until now is like something that we don't
(25:34):
we don't think humans are empathetic, right, as the deviants.
And so it just feels weird for them to be banking on that to just like wave them through
after seeing that.
My least favorite is at the recall camp when Kara abandons Alice.
Oh my God.
Horrific.
So bad.
Horrific.
(25:54):
Okay.
Yeah, when she just drags the Android body away and leaves, that's horrific to me.
Or the fact that the point where Alice could have gotten shot and you get the choice to
to like cover her and not and just letting Alice die.
Like I all those are bad.
Yeah.
(26:15):
Should we move on to Marcus?
I feel like we should save Connor for last.
Yeah, let's do Marcus next.
Number one thing I want to say about his alternate endings is the one where he betrays his people
in the negotiation with whatever Perkins, whatever his name is.
It results in the only moment where I 100% like North because she's pissed at him for
(26:38):
saving himself and her.
Her character is just so bland that they would have been better off if they excluded her.
They just needed her for the romance aspect so you can like do a kiss scene to like win
people over, which I think is also trash.
But because of that, it's better to have not have North in it and just keep it with Simon
(27:04):
because Simon could have scolded Marcus for that.
Simon could have also seen with Marcus.
I will say it makes more sense having her in the game knowing that if Marcus dies, she
takes over and leads.
Simon could have done it though.
Yeah, but he's not angry even though he was left for dead.
(27:24):
And that's the issue is I think they put too many moral compass characters around Marcus
to try to swear decision makings of are we peaceful?
Are we violent?
Are we somewhere in the middle?
I don't care what they say.
I want to do what I want to do.
Don't surround me with them.
I mean, what did Josh even do?
(27:44):
Josh was like nothing in this game.
They're wasting too much time on making characters when they could have spent more time making
quality characters.
Yeah.
What's your next note?
The Marcus singing was so stupid.
I was like, oh, I'm sorry.
(28:06):
I'm just going to reveal it now that that's my least favorite ending.
Okay.
I feel like it was tied between that one and Marcus choosing to be a coward and taking
the deal.
So those two, but it was either Marcus singing or Marcus kissing North was my two top three
least favorite ones.
(28:27):
All three of them suck.
I can't believe singing is what's going to get them spared or kissing.
It's like your face right now.
Okay.
Number one, it doesn't look good.
Number two, that's definitely not their voices.
These are dubbed.
These are someone else singing.
(28:48):
Those are not the actors singing.
I'm positive of that.
There's no way in heaven or hell that the soldiers are going to let them finish their
song and not shoot before president Warren hears the whole song and goes, don't kill
them.
There's no way they're going to wait that long.
(29:09):
This is the most I've ever seen.
I would have loved when a scene where Marcus opens the mouth, sings one note, and he just
gets gunned down because it's so unrealistic to let them sing.
And what's up with their voices shaking like that?
It was so stupid.
I will say I liked the song.
(29:29):
The song was cool.
No, the singing was bad.
The scene.
Yeah, the singing's bad.
The song's good.
Everything about it just does not like you're telling me this whole time.
All they had to do was just sing a song.
It blows my mind.
There's no, no, there's just no way.
There's no way they don't mow them down with a gunfire.
(29:50):
Why'd they delay it at all?
It's so terrible, Leah.
It's shit.
It is.
It's so bad.
I just.
Yeah.
Anyway, moving on.
Other notes.
I think that the Dirty Bomb ending is kind of hard.
I kind of liked it.
Just the whole gameplay mechanics of launching an assault.
(30:11):
Those look fun.
That looks fun.
I've never gone that route before.
So this is like a bit of a crossover between Marcus and Connor is when Connor pretty much
corners them.
I feel like the smart decision would be to detonate the bomb because you're already at
that end.
But that only would make sense had we chose to demonstrate hints of non pacifist type
(30:34):
of ending for Marcus.
So with our version, it would make sense.
But for the other versions we've seen, I think it makes sense.
What makes sense is if Connor at the very end chooses to spare either North or Marcus,
that doesn't track at all, especially with Connor's aggressiveness.
I have a response to that.
(30:56):
Okay.
I have a response to that because I think it's better when North's not there when it's
just Marcus.
But I like him betraying Amanda in this way.
I like him becoming deviant in this way than in Marcus convincing him in the back and
forth because this is Connor looking at Marcus going, I have you or I want you.
(31:18):
I could accomplish my mission if I want to.
I won.
But I'm making the decision to show mercy and let you live.
To me, that's way more compelling.
Last one.
Connor.
Connor.
Basically, we got three things with Connor.
We have the Cyber Life Tower, which is what we saw in our playthrough, the rooftop and
(31:39):
then after the rooftop.
If you go that route and rooftop is machine Connor.
Cyber Life Tower is deviant Connor.
The rooftop one.
And again, I think it depends on how you play the game.
But for what the game tries to build up for Connor and Hank's relationship and their
character arc, seeing them be so hostile against each other just doesn't feel right.
(32:04):
That really is a missed opportunity to display how well you could write a character up.
But instead, you went with a very stoic Connor.
And when Hank realizes that he doesn't hate androids, he's going to be like, oh,
I don't hate androids.
It just doesn't feel as impactful as what it could have been when they're in that Cyber
(32:24):
Life Tower at the basement, seeing when there's two Conners.
I agree.
And something does feel wrong about Hank saying, I know now you guys are alive to a
hardcore machine Connor.
It's just weird because to me, I feel like a big part of Hank's character getting to
realization is Connor.
(32:48):
Okay, I have some big notes, but little notes first.
When Hank is shot, when Connor says, I'm going to get you out of here and Hank goes,
shut the fuck up.
You like it's too late.
That's like one of my favorite lines.
I really like Hank's character the way we had him in our version.
After watching all the different options, I feel like my favorite one is the one we
(33:12):
chose because of being able to get a glimpse of the emergency exit, the free will, finally
surprising Amanda.
And pretty much all the Connor endings, we see Amanda.
There's a few where she pretty much takes him out.
One of our questions when we were playing this game is how did they let him walk into
(33:34):
the Cyber Life Tower?
And I think we get the answer to that question in these alternate endings because we see
if you fail to take control of the elevator, he's taking the elevator up to a trap,
essentially.
There are armed guards waiting to destroy him.
And this kind of contradicts another thing we were wondering of was Amanda bluffing when
(33:55):
she said that it all went according to plan?
And I think that this is proof that yes, she was bluffing because she's clearly trying
to set traps for him.
They're trying to set traps for him here to destroy him.
They also send the new Connor to stop him too.
So I think they do want him dead.
That leads into another theory that I have later.
(34:17):
But I think she's bluffing.
I think Cyber Life wants Connor dead.
So this leads me to believe that Cyber Life is anti-deviant.
I feel like if they were anti-deviant, though, they would have put out more than just a
single Connor to take care of the situation.
They would have put more resources than just having it all hinging on Connor succeeding
(34:41):
his mission.
So I don't think that.
I think they are pro-deviant because they want to take control of the Earth, I guess.
And then we get secret endings for Connor's character.
Do you want to talk about any of those?
So one of the secret endings was that Connor ends up going back to meeting Hank and it's
(35:05):
just pretty peaceful.
We leave it at that.
And I kind of like that secret ending because I have a whole alternative ending on my own
that if I could create something, it would pick up on where that is.
And I changed some other stuff.
But actually, I think that's probably one of my fair endings if I could add to it.
(35:27):
I agree.
I feel like that's the only ending we see that actually does justice to Connor's character
and Hank's.
And it's so short.
Okay, a little bit more from the secret endings that make me think that cyber life is anti-deviant
is when Amanda says that they can now rebuild trust and cyber life can continue.
(35:47):
To me, that indicates they are worried about the effect that deviancy has had on the trust
in them as a company.
It makes great sense.
But my theory why I think they're pro-deviant is and again, depending on how you play is
pretty much with a dirty bomb, they've ruined the entire city.
(36:08):
And I think that cyber life just really wants to take control of everything.
The fact that two thirds of the army is made up of androids.
The fact that World War Three is happening.
And if cyber life is the one who's controlling majority of the military, I think they're
(36:29):
pro-deviant because they're still able to control them.
The only issue that I see with that is it feels like they won and they lost because
if Marcus succeeds, like especially with the dirty bomb route, the city's theirs.
Yes.
But the government's not going to be able to have them in the military anymore without
(36:51):
the entire country going, what the hell are you doing?
Like they're deviant, you know?
Maybe we should table it because I think that there's more than one thing going on.
My least favorite Connor ending, which I feel like has an almost zero possibility of
organically happening is when Hank shoots the real Connor.
(37:13):
It's just so bad.
It's so bad.
As a player, you must really screw it up.
You have to be trying purposefully because it literally gives you the answers with that
little unlock.
But at that ending is just ass.
I think that is one of my least favorite, but also throwing Hank over the roof.
Hank's development didn't make sense and then Connor's action also didn't really make sense.
(37:37):
So I think that was my least favorite.
Any takeaways for you?
We focus on too many options without focusing on the quality.
I just didn't really care for a lot of them.
I know what you mean.
I because I do think that the decisions and consequences, they're some of the best I've
(37:58):
seen in a decision based game.
Like your choices really do have consequences and reactions to the decisions.
I think this game out of ones that I've played is probably the best to do that.
But the issue is it just doesn't lead to an ending that you truly want to see, at least
(38:20):
for us.
So after seeing all the endings, which is the first time for me, I feel a bit more confident
that Connor could be considered RA9.
Strictly because he's the only character that had these secret endings.
And I also just feel like he has more compelling endings overall, more emotional endings overall.
(38:44):
And his scenes are so well done that by comparison, the Marcus and Kara chapters feel pretty weak.
When I replay it, those two characters just start to feel like filler, which I feel like
is another one of these sins that I have been saying the game makes.
Marcus and Kara are both great characters and I do enjoy them, but the more time I spend
(39:07):
with this game, it's like the more I just want more Connor.
I don't care about the other ones.
Just give us more Connor.
The fact that if Alice, Kara, and Luther never existed and it wouldn't impact the game
goes to show how much of a weak spot they have in focusing on them instead of focusing
(39:29):
on Marcus and Connor.
Because really the only major intersections that we see between the characters is if you
choose the right ending, Marcus wins and he's with Connor.
And that really is a pivotal moment.
But Kara visiting Marcus, that was so short, unnecessary.
I think they should have just gotten rid of the whole Alice storyline or Kara storyline.
(39:55):
It's a good idea.
And this is where it's tough because I like the characters and I like the actors.
And I just feel like the chapters by comparison are just so boring.
I don't want to walk around Rose's house.
I want to be Connor investigating a crime.
And it's great seeing Kara as a character that isn't like Madison.
(40:20):
That's the opposite of her.
If you're just playing this game for the first time, it doesn't really hate you like that.
You're still invested.
I was invested.
It's on the replay and just looking deeper at the game where you kind of realize the
writers don't care about anyone but Connor.
Not really.
And honestly as a player, I don't care about anyone but Connor.
(40:41):
He has the most compelling storyline.
The other two are just so set in their ways and in what their path is.
They don't have the conflict.
They try to force it with Marcus but it's just not the same.
Are we ready to move on to the additional info which is all the magazines, video extras?
(41:01):
So for the extras, there's the Detroit short Kamski.
First of all, what's up with Kamski's face?
Why is his head so big and his arms are like dinosaur T-Rex arms?
They're like so disproportionate which not trying to hate on him or the it's not about the actor.
It's the design of him but it's it almost didn't feel too in line with the Kamski that we see
(41:28):
in the game.
Like this one is way too ambitious and even feels evil versus the one that we see.
His interactions with Connor is more of just like toying with him but he doesn't really
exude this evilness to him.
I only have a few notes.
The first one is did you get your red eyes question answered?
(41:52):
This article says the synthetic stimulant formerly known as red eyes has become the
drug of choice for Detroit's growing underclass.
Analysts have pointed to Detroit's status as the epicenter of Android production,
suggesting that the drug flourishes and the dissatisfaction caused by androids taking human jobs.
I guess so.
I partially but at the same time it's like it's one of those storylines that's so insignificant
(42:18):
like cool but it's so easily replaced with any other type of thing.
Like if you cut out the drug part and just made it seem like the doctor was he was like
drunk or something.
Or even if he was just high on cocaine.
Yeah high on cocaine he was drunk.
I just I'm not hating on the game.
I just feel like they should have spent a few more years on this game.
(42:40):
I know what you mean because I've never played a game that I enjoy so much but have so many issues with.
Okay my final notes on the additional info which will lead me into my overall theory is about Kamsky.
One of the quotes is rumors emerged that Kamsky disagreed with his shareholders over strategy.
(43:00):
He later departed under mysterious circumstances.
My overall theory for this game Kamsky was pushed out by cyber life because he was
he wanted to push the line further.
He wanted to make androids more and more human even to the point where you could argue they
do have souls.
Cyber life was more interested strictly in profits so basically it was creation versus money.
(43:25):
And so he got pushed out.
Kamsky still saw himself as the one allowed to make decisions about his own creation.
And thus he implanted the deviancy r9 code into the androids unknown to cyber life.
As well as the emergency exit.
He may have even sent special androids like Marcus to people that he knew had similar views like Carl
(43:47):
to try to sort of sprout deviancy and free will in the uprising.
Just sort of as an fu basically to cyber life.
And then I think when Hank and Connor go to Kamsky he sees Connor's relation to both sides
and knows that he's in a position to free the androids and be r9 realized.
(44:08):
So he gives him the hint about the emergency exit program in that scene.
Basically Kamsky wins at the end of the game and the Kamsky ending we see that he gets
reappointed as the head of cyber life.
Yeah my theory was just so similar but slightly different.
I was thinking that Kamsky was doing that because he truly liked androids.
(44:32):
While cyber life just wanted control over the government and of society and that's where
the difference was.
Kamsky probably wanted to like take back control but he couldn't because he just didn't have
the resources.
Him really pushing Connor in building in that exit plan was he always knew that he could
(44:52):
get kicked out of his own company.
So he decides to just take back control in a different way.
Yeah to me it feels like cyber life removed him from his own creation and so this is him
regaining control of what he created essentially.
And that's why I think cyber life is not on board with deviancy.
I don't think they know where it came from.
(45:14):
I think Kamsky slipped it in there unbeknownst to them.
So topic number four.
Everyone's favorite topic.
Yes.
Kathy's favorite character.
Just uh hey KFC still waiting on that console please message us on Instagram please.
We know KFC who it is.
(45:35):
We talked about it multiple times.
Luther.
I will say that Hank would have been yeah Hank would have been a close second.
I want to acknowledge the greatness in his character arc of him finally recognizing that
androids aren't all bad and he knows that.
Androids aren't all bad and he knows who truly was the one who affected his son's eye for
(45:58):
death.
I think he's the most entertaining character in the game.
And there's like small little nuances to his character like he bumped his head on the car
door kind of thing.
So yeah for those reasons.
Moving on to stale biscuit.
I'm going to separate it where I actually added a trash category that's North because
so I know North would have easily been a stale biscuit but I feel like that's not
(46:22):
doing the category justice because for North it's beyond being a stale biscuit.
It's just I'm annoyed with her and I hate the storyline.
I hate the focus.
You know how I feel about this.
So she has her own category which is the trash category so it can give stale biscuit
its rightful person.
Can we retroactively add Madison to the trash category?
(46:44):
Yes please do.
Yeah so stale biscuit truly stale personality people.
Can I guess?
Yes.
Simon.
I can totally see why you would put him in there but surprisingly he's actually not.
I don't think you'll be able to guess who my stale biscuit is.
Do you want to get it?
Guess again?
(47:08):
Simon's too funny to put him in a stale biscuit.
He did have that great line.
We know that's not going to do it.
Okay who if it's not Simon who is stale in this game?
Let's see.
I feel like you can argue that and I'll give you a clue she like she's not stale but I feel stale about her.
(47:28):
Alice?
Yeah.
She doesn't contribute anything to the storyline.
She has like high morals when she should read the room.
I'm cold.
Yeah.
Knock them down.
That's exactly what it was.
I said she's loud has high morals and ethics when normally it isn't a bad thing but like
read the room my goodness.
(47:50):
Who would your stale biscuit be?
My stale biscuit?
Josh.
Oh.
He does nothing.
He adds nothing.
Why is he there?
Yeah.
Kentucky scores your post game.
My favorite time.
So before we were chatting today it was going to be it was going to be.
(48:11):
No no no you can't base it off of that's not Marcus that's the actor.
You can't base it off of that.
Actually Marcus is my my Kentucky scorcher but now that I know I could choose from the
alternative endings I it's a close between Marcus and the Canadian border control guy.
(48:33):
It was going to be Jesse willing despite or Marcus despite his association with North
but then today you you dropped a very important piece of news.
It's gossip.
I don't know if we should I mean nobody's really listening so probably doesn't matter.
Other people have said it.
He's a cheater.
(48:54):
But Cathy that's not Marcus you can't you can't consider that in the Kentucky scorcher.
Yeah so so okay we'll stick with Marcus because I truly do like the face of Jesse Williams
but the Canadian border control guy close second.
We pull up do you have the other slides.
Oh of course I do.
(49:15):
I'm sharing with you now the pictures.
I can't believe you put Hank in there Leah.
What's wrong with Hank?
No I mean the age demographic.
He's older.
Yeah I thought that he would be one that the personality would get to you.
But okay here we go here are the reveals here's what I provided.
(49:37):
Kamski, Marcus, Hank, Gavin, Luther and Connor.
Are you ready for your notes?
Yes.
I haven't read these and I caught a glimpse.
I'm gonna try to hold it together.
Okay these all look to be based on different actors.
Number one Kamski Channing Tatum as a criminal.
(50:02):
Number two which is Marcus.
What did I say?
You said looks like Jesse Williams.
That was right.
Without the beautiful blue green eyes.
Number three Hank you said looks like Woody Harrelson.
(50:27):
That's all you gave us.
Number four is Gavin you said John Krasinski and Tom Clancy.
Number five is Luther and you said Ray Fisher.
I don't know who that is.
He's the guy from Justice League I think.
Number six is Connor.
(50:48):
Nicholas Gallat sign is that the guy you brought up in one of the episodes?
No I in hindsight I realized that he looked more closer to the Ansel guy.
But you continue to say he looks like him but with more schoolboyish vibes.
This picture does give off a schoolboy vibe.
Are you ready for the reveal?
I'm ready but at the same time I do want to say that had you put Beanie Connor in there
(51:12):
I feel like I would have automatically chose Beanie Connor.
I didn't realize you had such a thing for beanies but this is not the first time that
you've talked about a man in a beanie.
Really?
How frequent am I talking about that?
How frequent am I talking about that? And it's funny because I find Beanie Connor
a tragedy.
Here's your pick we've delayed this one.
(51:33):
First impressions for Blind Kentucky Scorcher though.
It'll be number four.
What?
You're lying.
Get out of here.
You're lying aren't you?
Picked Gavin.
You're lying.
How did I not pick Jesse William?
I'm glad I don't think I chose him as my cast because he is so annoying.
(51:55):
Get out of here.
You're lying.
That's not true.
I'm not lying.
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
What?
This is not as bad as Heavy Rain.
Okay he's not ugly though in your defense.
(52:17):
He looks good in this.
He's not evil looking in this like he's not having that ugly spheric or anything.
You can't blame me here.
I don't blame you but I just don't know why you weren't looking at two five and six.
I guess post-game KS who would it be?
I feel like Marcus is too attractive to the point where it's not attractive anymore.
(52:37):
I don't know if that makes sense.
That's the obvious answer but I feel like he's just too attractive so I feel like I
would have to say Connor.
He's got a unique face.
Also the proportions.
Oh this is disgusting.
We're getting way too into this.
The proportions of his body.
You know they were engineered to be perfect and you can tell.
(53:01):
I was going to say that if we do include body shape though definitely Luther.
I feel safe especially if there's a home invasion.
You know he could just pulverize anybody.
Exactly.
Last topic is the counts slash statistics.
There were two secret stats Kathy.
I don't like it.
Do you want to guess what the first one was?
(53:22):
I almost feel like it's a QTE.
You're correct.
I am?
That one was QTE percentage.
Yes!
Happy dance.
What though do you think my QTE percentage was?
Hint I thought I did a lot worse than this.
It's a-
And I don't want to blame the controller.
I don't want to blame the controller but this is the first game I played on PS5 and I have
(53:46):
to say I hate how big the PS5 controller is.
I have dainty hands.
And you did do worse?
I did better than I thought I did.
Okay I'm going to show my loyalty to you as a friend and give you like 92.1.
Close.
88.7.
I was going to guess 88 as my second one.
(54:08):
Okay didn't I?
Because I thought I was more confident in you.
I'm going to give you a hint about stat number two.
You're going to hate me for it but you can't possibly hate me as much as I hate myself.
Okay.
For picking this stat.
My first guess would be like how many lines North has but I feel like that's just-
(54:31):
You wouldn't do that.
That's a good one actually.
Yeah.
I don't think it's going to be something like a cough from Sleeping Dogs that I completely missed.
Okay here's a hint.
You made a comment about it once.
Very brief comment.
Does it apply to one character or to all?
It applies to any scene in the game.
(54:54):
It's like how many times- I think it's how many times something showed up.
How many outfit changes?
I think that's going to be my guess.
No.
How many is correct but it's how many birds- what?
How many birds are in the game?
(55:16):
Like just Merlin right?
Like what do you mean birds?
No.
I counted every bird in the game.
Are you kidding me?
I counted every bird in the game.
I counted every bird in the game.
I'm not kidding.
We had a bird analogy.
This is why I hate myself.
(55:37):
Like I can't even remember if there's any birds like we- besides like Merlin that and we talked
about like you don't hate all birds when bird pooped on you like that's a classic Leah line
right there.
Are we talking like flocks of birds or like single birds?
Any county.
Individual birds within a margin of error because there are a couple scenes where you
(55:57):
have to be an android to count them all accurately but I went over them multiple times to get the
most accurate count in slow motion.
I can't believe you did that Leah.
I'm- I told you that I hate myself for doing this to myself.
Oh my god I don't think there's a lot of birds.
It's raining and snowing out there.
I'd say it has to be under a hundred.
(56:20):
It's like 28?
Just a little off.
I counted 348.
What?
Wait what?
Hold on.
Hold on.
I can't do- I can't breathe.
I can't with you.
(56:47):
You got the eight part right.
I can't breathe right now.
I can't believe you counted over 300 birds.
But don't forget about the two robo birds and the one stuffed ostrich.
(57:09):
I'm like crying right now.
Oh my god Leah you counted over 300 birds.
I counted every bird.
Although in doing so I noticed a really cool detail in the game.
As you know we start like fall right?
Late fall.
There's birds around.
As we progress into winter no more birds.
(57:30):
They all flew south for the winter and I have to commend the game designers
for including bird migratory patterns in this game.
That's insane because all I can remember recently is that there's no birds but how the hell did they fit 300 birds in the beginning?
There's 40 in one.
(57:51):
What?
One little clip in the title scene and also the android's apartment where he's feeding all the birds.
That was the biggest pain in my ass.
And I knew full well about that scene when I chose birds as the stat.
I can't believe you counted birds.
This is why I'm behind on editing.
(58:12):
Yeah.
And the amount of times I got gaslit by a leaf in the wind.
Unbelievable.
With that good game good guesses.
We'll see you next week for a new game.
And look out for bird poop as you're crossing the streets.
(58:34):
I don't know how to end this now.
Okay with that I'm closing us out.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
Audacity on one.
Three, two, one.
Thank you for listening and don't forget to send in any questions, comments, or game suggestions.
You can find all our contact info on our website replayreviewspod.com or contact us directly through our site.
Do we completely miss something?
(58:54):
Are we way off the mark or you just want us to take a deeper look at anything from the game?
We'll tackle any topics you all want to hear in our season wrap-up episode.
We also have a reddit where we discuss anything we're curious about.
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking.
Think you can guess which game is up next based on this obscure quote?
Message us on Instagram or contact us through our website to see if you're right.
(59:16):
Our theme music is Condemned by Eggy Toast.
They'll play you out and we'll be back next week with a new game.
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