July 15, 2025 • 33 mins
T/W: Mention of sexual assault at 20:29
Medina v. Planned Parenthood South Atlantic was a Supreme Court case this term that specifically targeted efforts to kick Planned Parenthood and other reproductive healthcare providers out of Medicaid. In a 6-3 ruling, the Supreme Court sided against access to care. Dr. Regina Davis Moss, President and CEO of In Our Own Voice, National Black Women’s Reproductive Justice Agenda, sits down to talk with us about Medina v. Planned Parenthood and how this case is a direct assault on hard-fought reproductive justice progress.
Reproductive justice is rooted in human rights and is about the ability to exercise economic, social, and political power to make decisions about one’s body, family, community, and other life aspects in a safe and sustainable environment. But Medina, which successfully displaced Planned Parenthood and other reproductive health care providers from Medicaid, threatens 200 Planned Parenthood health centers and 1.1 million patients who depend on Planned Parenthood for a spectrum of care. This extreme barrier will prevent people, families, and communities from accessing reliable health care and ultimately realizing reproductive justice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie (00:03):
Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things
related to sexual andreproductive health, rights, and
justice. [music intro] HirePROs, how's everybody doing?
I'm your host, Jennie Wetter,and my pronouns are she/ her.
Well, before we get to the badand terrible, let's start off
with some happiness again.
(00:23):
Last week, I talked to youabout my excitement about
Wisconsin State Supreme Courtstriking down a 176-year-old
abortion ban, which was amazingnews out of Wisconsin.
This week, the Wisconsin StateSupreme Court was back upholding
a ban on conversion therapy.
So, it is so wonderful to seethem standing up for our rights,
(00:44):
to block an abortion ban, toensure that the ban on
conversion therapy stays inplace.
I am just so excited for myfriends and family who are still
in Wisconsin who no longer haveto fear these restrictions that
were in place or worry aboutconversion therapy.
So, feeling like a very proudWisconsinite, happy Badger
(01:06):
today.
So I wanted to share that pieceof good news since there is a
lot of of other just not greatnews, right?
Since we last talked, theterrible "Big, Beautiful Bill,"
I feel stupider every time I sayit, y'all.
Hopefully we don't have to talkabout it much anymore, but
there's so much terrible in it,was passed and signed into law.
(01:29):
So, so, so many terrible thingsin it.
A huge, massive increase offunding for ICE, which is not
good.
Massive cuts to Medicaid.
ban on funding for PlannedParenthood, massive tax cuts for
the wealthy, cuts to foodstamps.
Y'all, just so much terrible inone terrible, terrible bill.
(01:52):
So many people are going to behurt by all of these provisions.
And I'm sure we'll talk aboutthe fallout from it for so much
more.
But just, yeah, not good,y'all.
Really worried about thatmassive funding increase for
ICE.
Really worried about thedefunding of Planned Parenthood
and what that's going to do foraccess to care.
(02:15):
Really worried about the hugecuts in SNAP benefits and the
loss of Medicaid and what that'sgoing to mean for people on
Medicaid, but also for peoplewho aren't on Medicaid but are
going to be impacted by ruralhospitals being forced to close.
The hospital I grew up going tois considered a rural hospital,
(02:36):
so it could be impacted.
There is so much that I am moreabout all of the people who are
going to be harmed because ofthese terrible decisions that
were made to support this bill.
Yeah.
So again, just...
let's go back to the happinessof thinking about Wisconsin
State Supreme Court doing theright things and that being
(02:58):
really wonderful.
And I'm going to choose tofocus on that part.
But yeah, just feeling reallyheavy this week with...
knowing that this bill wassigned into law and what it is
going to mean for people's livesaround the country.
And most of it is not good.
Yeah, I'm trying to think ifthere's anything else exciting.
I've been back to baking alittle bit, which was exciting.
(03:19):
I think I told you all beforelast week, I made really yummy
flourless peanut butterchocolate chip cookies, which
were really good.
This weekend, I made oatmuffins with little jammy bits
in them, which were very good.
I had those for breakfast allweek.
I'm going to try and makesomething again this weekend.
Like I said, I've really fallenoff the baking train, and so I
(03:42):
am...
trying to get back on it.
It does bring me joy.
I know that people love seeingwhat I post when I share what
I've made, so I want to get backto it.
So, I think that's where I'm atright now.
I think that's probably enoughchit chat.
I'm sure you want to hear whatwe're going to talk about this
week because it is a reallyimportant conversation.
(04:02):
I am talking to Dr.
Regina Davis Moss with In OurOwn Voice: National Black
Women's Reproductive JusticeAgenda, to talk about the Medina
decision at the Supreme Court, and what that is going to mean in people's lives, but particularly focusing on Black women. It's a really great conversation, and I hope y'all enjoy. So, let's go to my conversation with Dr. Davis Moss.
Hi, Dr. Davis Moss. Thank you so much for being here today!
Regina (04:12):
Hi Jennie.
So glad to be here.
(04:33):
I am very excited to talk with you about the Medina decision at the Supreme Court. But before we get started, would you like to take a second to introduce yourself, and include your pronouns?
Sure. Dr. Regina Davis Moss, Presidentand CEO of In Our Own Voice:
National Black Women'sReproductive Justice Agenda.
And my pronouns are she/ her/hers.
Jennie (04:56):
Thank you.
Like I said, I'm really excitedto talk to you about this
decision because it is going tohave some really wide ranging
impacts.
But before we can talk aboutthe impacts, maybe we should
talk about the case.
And it's Medina v.
Planned Parenthood of SouthAtlantic.
What was this case about?
Regina (05:17):
Yeah, I mean, what the case was about was, for me, what
it boiled down to was reallyeverything that we have been
trying to talk about with regardto reproductive justice.
That where you live, you know,your geography and your ability
to pay and your income is reallynow going to be how you access
(05:40):
care.
When we think aboutreproductive justice, this is
what the 12 founding motherswere trying to uplift that, you
know, we live in a system in theUnited States where there's the
two-tiered healthcare system,where there's two types of
healthcare.
And if you can pay for betterhealth care, then you get that.
(06:00):
If not, then you have to relyon our public health care
system.
And so what that case was justsaying is that if you are on
Medicaid, there is a provisionin there that says you should
have the right to choose yourprovider.
And that case said that peopledidn't have that right, or at
least they didn't have the rightto sue.
But that's really, in my mind,a sort of you know, formality in
(06:24):
terms of where we're ultimatelygoing to end up, which is that,
you know, this is just thebeginning of a pattern, a
growing pattern that we haveseen in terms of restricting
access.
You know, now we're talkingabout just reproductive health
care.
You know, this is what I wantpeople to really understand is
that that case was not aboutabortion.
(06:44):
That was just about care.
Right.
But it's just, you know, it'sthe beginning, only the
beginning of of what we're goingto see.
We're going to get intocontraception, screening,
prenatal care, even the abortiondrug.
This is really, it was a sadday for me.
(07:05):
And just in terms of, it wasstruck right at the heart of
everything we fight for in termsof reproductive justice.
We are saying that we need tocenter access.
We need to center autonomy Andwe need to center equity and
that all of those are impactedwhen we look at things like
(07:29):
race, class, gender, andobviously where we live.
In this case, it was SouthCarolina.
And those intersect, thosesystems intersect as well as
exacerbate, you know, issuesthat get into the in the way of
people being able toself-determine their
reproductive lives.
Jennie (07:47):
I really liked how you framed that.
It is such this bigger questionand it is often getting lost in
the discussion because PlannedParenthood brought the case.
And yes, it's about PlannedParenthood in some ways, but it
was bigger than that, right?
It wasn't just about yourability to access care at
Planned Parenthood becausethat's just the start.
Regina (08:11):
Yeah, it's just really, it's about, it's restricting the
autonomy based on wheresomebody lives and the type of
insurance they have.
And, you know, it goes to whatwe have always said is that you
can't...
rights need to be focused inreal world access, not just
laws.
We have to make sure thatpeople understand that any time
(08:35):
we put up any sort of barrier,then it's going to delay care.
It is going to increase access.
you know, maternal mortality,infant mortality.
You know, we talked about this.
It wasn't just about abortion.
This was about reproductive andpreventive services.
And so now those things hingeon the laws of your state.
(08:56):
They're not just yourconstitutional right anymore.
And this is not, it'sdevastating and it is not going
to stop.
It is a growing pattern and itjust really, again, illustrates
how where you live in thiscountry, what is supposed to be
the land of the free, how youraccess to care is going to
(09:17):
really depend on where you live.
Jennie (09:19):
I feel like this has just become more and more true
over the years.
And as somebody who grew up ina rural area, and now I would
say like a purplish state, Igrew up in Wisconsin, like, I
really feel that.
And I think about that in termsof access to Medicaid or even
(09:40):
thinking through thereconciliation bill that is
happening that could really gutMedicaid, it is going to impact
those who have the most need ofaccess to that healthcare.
And I think it's important thatpeople understand that it is
going to impact everybody aswell.
So, if your local hospital isnot able to get Medicaid
(10:01):
reimbursements, your local ruralhospital may not be able to
stay open.
And so this is going to impacteverybody.
Regina (10:07):
That's right.
I mean, we're already insituations where people are
already having to drive an hourbecause they don't have full for
delivery or whatever type ofservices sometimes they're not
the specialized services aren'tavailable in their local in
health care whether that be aprovider or urgent care center
(10:27):
or a community health center andso they will particularly in
rural areas they're alreadyhaving to drive. So, imagine if
this bill goes forward you knowwe know that's like a trillion
dollars you know in cuts And itis absolutely going to have an
impact on the availability ofcare.
(10:48):
It is already projected that 17million people will lose their
health coverage.
So that's health coverage.
But then we have to talk about,the healthcare facilities
aren't there.
I have long said that we havebeen talking about these issues.
We've been trying to raise thealarm bell on them.
(11:09):
I mean, if you think about...
you know, when you're drivingin a car and the warning light
comes on, you know, you can keepdriving.
But if you ignore it, sooner orlater, that engine is going to
give out on you.
And that's what we're seeingwith our health care system.
It was already very, verycontinuous on shaky ground.
And now we have been saying foryears, you know, that the
(11:34):
warning light is on.
And now this is we're going tobe in significant trouble.
It's going to break down.
Jennie (11:40):
So, I think it's also really important to talk about
who is going to be the mostimpacted.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about who is going to feel
the impacts the most from theSupreme Court decision?
Regina (11:51):
Yeah, I mean, in terms of, you know, I, at In Our Own
Voice, we champion the human andcivil rights for Black women,
girls, and gender expansivepeople every day because we
think it's important for peopleto understand just how
devastating the any sort ofsustained and ongoing attack on
(12:13):
our human and civil rights are.
This is just one example withthe Supreme Court ruling.
It is just absolutely a directattack for a number of reasons,
right?
It's because Black women,two-thirds of births by Black
birthing people are covered byMedicaid.
Over half of Black girls under17 are on Medicaid.
(12:35):
One in four Black women rely onMedicaid.
So, it is very critical forhealthcare services.
And, you know, again, we're notjust talking about abortion.
We are talking about, you know,these lifesaving services like
STI testing, breast cancerscreening, birth control, so
much more.
And so, you know, when we talkabout the impact, it is not an
(12:59):
understatement to say that thiswill be devastating, that this
will head us off at the knees.
You know, this is a lifelineprogram for so many Black women,
girls, and gender expansivepeople.
Jennie (13:13):
Yeah, it's the ability to take control and plan your
life.
Regina (13:17):
That's exactly what it is.
I mean, we are, you know, weare, this is what, it is so
frustrating sometimes to keephaving to ring this bell alarm
bell to say like, this is what,why we have been fighting for
reproductive justice, because itis about access to
(13:40):
comprehensive, affordablehealthcare, including all the
things that I just talked about,but, you know, maternal care,
and that's a core tenant ofreproductive justice.
And so when we, when we dothat, then we'd be, we're able
to exercise that right to havechildren, to not have children,
to parent those children in safeand sustainable environments.
(14:02):
And by cutting access toMedicaid, both through the
Supreme Court decision, but alsobased on what is happening with
this current bill that ismoving through Congress and the
direct cuts to that, it is adirect threat on reproductive
justice because it deniesmillions of people the resources
(14:23):
they need to make informeddecisions, supported decisions
in accessible ways in theircommunities and so that they
can, you know, thrive.
Jennie (14:35):
I think it's so easy to talk about all of these things
in a vacuum, right?
Like we'll talk about the cutson Medicaid here.
We'll talk about abortion banshere.
We'll talk about Black maternalmortality here.
But this is all the same story,right?
It is so important that theyare talked about together and
(14:55):
how they are exacerbatingissues.
And well, I guess not eachother because like Black
maternal mortality is beingexacerbated by these other two
things that are making analready terrible crisis so much
worse.
Regina (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I don't think people should
be looking at them as separatebecause they're, in my opinion,
by design occurring in paralleltracks.
Because that is what we, thatis the goal to completely
destabilize our healthcaresystem.
You know, we, need to make surethat people really understand
(15:31):
what is at stake here.
If you look at Project 2025, itis already there.
We already knew.
We had a very good sense ofwhat the dangers were going to
be.
They told us exactly what theywere going to do.
And we're watching this playout in real time.
We are under threat like neverbefore.
(15:53):
We should not be looking atthis as if oh, well, this is
just coincidental here.
They are taking very bold,calculated steps, and we need to
respond in kind with bold,urgent action that is really
going to confront the variousattacks that are happening
(16:13):
across all of these differentplaces.
There's attacks on genderidentity.
There's attacks on care.
There's attacks on you know,SNAP benefits.
Like we're going to be hungry,dead, and unable to survive.
Jennie (16:31):
Yeah, I feel like that just needed a second to like
sink in for everybody of likehow dire the situation is at the
moment.
I really love that you talkedabout we need a bold plan of
action.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe plan that y'all have worked
on for the RJ agenda?
Regina (16:48):
Yeah, I am so glad you asked that.
You know, we on Thursday, thesame day as we heard about the
Medina v.
Planned Parenthood case, wewere already on the hill and we
were launching our 2025 BlackReproductive Justice Policy
Agenda.
This is something that werelease every two years and
(17:09):
ahead of the new Congress.
And it's more than just apolicy document.
It is really literally aguidebook, the playbook.
It is a call to action forlawmakers on how to do this
work.
It is over 125 policyrecommendations put forth by
(17:31):
over 50 organizations, policyexperts, activists, and it is
there to protect and upliftBlack women, girls, and gender
expansive people.
But in our perspective, just aswhen the 12 Black women created
the Reproductive Justicemovement, you know, when Black
women, because we are some ofthe most marginalized,
(17:54):
dismissed, forgotten aboutpeople in the United States,
when we do better, we all dobetter.
And so, just as those 12 Blackwomen gave this incredible gift
of the Reproductive Justiceframework to the United States,
which is now a global movementat this point, this is what this
policy agenda is.
It is grounded in science.
(18:15):
It is based in what we knowthat's been heavily researched
to work--everything from doulasand midwifery, comprehensive sex
ed, environmental and economicjustice.
What are the policies that weknow work that are going to help
(18:35):
advance this work so thatultimately, for us, we are
fighting for people to havetheir reproductive lives
affirmed, however that is.
And that can be either to wantto have a child, to not have a
child, or to just be able tolive out loud in terms of your
(18:58):
sexuality, your gender identity,or whoever you love.
Jennie (19:02):
I love a bold plan of action.
I am always a fan of seeingwhat all we need to do because
there are so many areas that areso interrelated, but yet people
don't often connect all of thedots that need to be connected.
So, I'm always a big fan ofhaving policy agendas that try
to do that.
Regina (19:23):
Yeah, you know, it's so, it just warmed my heart to,
number one, all of the responsesthat we received when we
released it, but just to getcalls from people and say, oh,
my God, there's everything inhere.
There's something for my work.
You know, whether you areworking in breast care, whether
you are working withincarcerated individuals, it
(19:46):
really does range in terms ofhow we need to address this
issue because we've always knownthat it's you know you this is
not siloed work.
You are not going to be able toadvance reproductive justice by
only looking at it in terms ofwhether or not you have the
right to have an abortion;honestly you are getting it
(20:08):
wrong if that is where you thinkthe conversation should end and
start.
You know, we need to talk aboutthings like: can people stay in
school, can people keep theirjob, can people who already have
a pre-existing health conditionsafely carry a pregnancy, do
they have access to you knowhealth care so that they can get
(20:30):
in early to have prenatal careor to have screening, are they
struggling with you knowfertility issues? How do we
make sure Black women and genderexpansive people are able to
access care because, by the way,the research shows that we tend
to get into care later and thenour success rates tend to not
(20:52):
be as high.
So, it's really important thatwe are calling attention to the
unique health outcomes andexperiences of Black women,
girls, and gender expansivepeople, so that we can make sure
that people are not justcreating a one size fits all
policy, but one that is reallygoing to directly address the
(21:16):
unique needs and the livedexperiences.
Jennie (21:19):
That is such an important point, like, you so
often hear people focusing onlike if we could just do this
one thing or or this one policywill make everything so much
better but it's so much morenuanced and complicated than
that.
You need to be able to addressso many different aspects of
people's lives and addressingthem as a whole person.
(21:40):
It's so great to hear that thatis how your agenda is
approaching this.
Regina (21:46):
Yeah, I mean, can I tell you a story about what that
(22:09):
shows?
Jennie (22:15):
Always.
Regina (22:15):
One of them, they were sexually assaulted.
So, that speaks to safe andsustainable communities, right?
Then they're walking into theirschool where they have to walk
through a metal detector.
So, then, there's a narrativethat we are continuing to impose
about certain communities andthe need to be over-surveilled
(22:35):
and over-policed.
But we need to think about thekid who's coming to school who's
hungry, right?
So, they're coming to schoolmaybe because that's the only
meal they're going to get thatday, breakfast and lunch.
So, what are some things thatwe can do?
We have policies that say,because our policies are both
big P and little p, like bigpolicy and little policy.
(22:58):
So, maybe it's something assimple as having a fresh fruit
or a protein bar or a granolabar right there at the metal
detectors so that any studentwho's walking by that can grab
that.
And then the issues aroundhunger and poverty are
destigmatized, right?
(23:19):
Some kids are not going toschool because they're being
teased because maybe they don'thave running water, right?
And so they don't have theopportunity to, you know, wash
their clothes.
But by doing things likeplacing security guards by the
showers, so people can shower oreven bringing in laundry
(23:41):
facilities and so students cancome and wash their clothes.
You are creating opportunityfor people to stay in school and
to be not shamed and not haveto be subjected to stigma, but
most important to be able tolearn so that they can go on to
be productive and citizens thatcontribute to the society,
(24:03):
right?
At the end of the day, what wehave to be very clear on is that
the face of the nation ischanging, right?
Right now we know that everychild born, half of them, you
know, 50%, or one in twochildren that are born is a
person of color, right?
So it is really on us to makesure that everybody is healthy,
(24:27):
that everyone can produce,right?
You know, we're alwaysconcerned about how we are going
to be competitive with theseother nations and, you know, how
do we stay on top?
Well, we stay on top by makingsure that we're taking care of
our own, that we are providingthe resources and the
opportunities to be able to doso, to be able to, we want our
(24:50):
kids to be able to focus whenthey're in class.
And so, you know, that's justone example of the various ways
that that one of the tenets interms of the right to raise your
child in a safe and sustainableenvironment can be so
far-reaching, and it just can'tsimply be about health care.
Jennie (25:08):
I think that's one of the things that makes
reproductive justice so...
simple in so many ways but alsoso expansive because it is like
all of the things right it iseverything you need to live in a
safe and healthy environment tomake the decisions to have
kids, to not have kids.
(25:28):
It's so many things but it has,like, that simple basic tenant
behind it even if enacting itinvolves this huge array of
policies to ensure that you canget to this basic core tenet of
safe, healthy lives and makingbasic decisions about whether to
(25:49):
have kids or not.
Regina (25:51):
Yeah, I think if you just, you know, again, don't
center this only about abortion,right?
Like at its core, it's abouthaving control over our body,
our life, our future, ourfamilies, and however you show
up in that.
You know, that includes oursexuality, that includes our
reproduction, but it's about thebodily autonomy and having the
(26:14):
human right for that to beaffirmed.
Jennie (26:18):
Okay.
So I always like to wrap up theepisodes, not just talking
about what is happening and whatpeople need to be worried
about, what is coming down thepike with policies, but how can
they get involved?
So if the audience wants to getinvolved in fighting for these
issues, what can they do?
Regina (26:34):
Oh, I mean, you, number one, make sure that you are
following In Our Own Voice.
www.blackrj.org is our website.
@Black Womens RJ are oursocials.
You can follow us across all ofour social media.
We are always trying to workvery hard to make sure that we
(26:55):
are breaking down the day-to-daypolicy news in a way that you
can understand and how it isrelevant to you.
And then when you get thatinformation and you take it
back to your community.
Take it back to your tribe.
Take it back to your friendsand family.
Because honestly, you arelisteners.
(27:16):
You are actually the bestadvocates, right?
I mean, think about when afriend or a loved one or someone
that you care about and youtrust tells you something and
educates you on something youdon't know.
You act upon it and you alsoshare it.
And so that's what we want todo is to make sure that people
are getting the information sothat they are empowered.
So yes, we would say, we liketo tell people, start with your
(27:41):
kitchen table.
So, those are the people thatare close to you.
But also, I mean, in a timeright now where we are every day
seeing policies that arethreatening our health and
well-being crop up, contact yourelected official.
Let them know that you are nothappy with this policy is going
to do it and tell them how it'sgoing to impact you directly.
(28:04):
I mean, we have to rememberthat they work for us.
You know, there is somehow somesort of something happens where
we don't believe that we canhold them accountable and that,
you know, I want people to knowthat just as easy as it was to
vote them in, it's easy to votethem out.
So don't, you know, adopt thethinking that it's hopeless and
(28:27):
nothing's going to change andthere's nothing we can do.
There's absolutely something wecan do.
That is how we have seenhistorically things happen.
You know, at some point, thepeople speak up.
They say they've had enough.
They begin to apply thepressure.
We see change.
And so, that's absolutelysomething we should do.
(28:48):
And then we don't need to wait.
We don't have to wait for anelection year to do that.
We can do that at all levels.
You can do that with yourschool board.
You can do that with yourlibrary board.
You can do that with any areathat I talked about where you
find that is personally relevantto you.
(29:09):
Find out who are the leaders,who are the decision makers.
Become educated on the types ofthings they are trying to
enact.
And if you agree, absolutely,we should be supportive.
We want to make sure we'renormalizing good policy right
now, especially when we'reseeing a lot of things that are
(29:32):
being, that are very harmful.
So let them, you know, we wantto make sure that the
policymakers that are doing agood job know that we like what
they're doing and give them thepat on the back.
But the ones that aren't, wewant to make sure that they hear
us loud and clear and that theycan't ignore us.
We will not be silenced.
And then, you know, these aremore than ever.
(29:54):
Members of Congress will tellyou that it's tough right now.
And so they really do rely ongrassroots organizations to be
able to do some of the work thatthey can't.
So, it's important to keepsupporting those organizations
that are doing great things inyour community.
They're the ones that are goingto continue to be the sound the
(30:18):
alarm on the things that aremost important.
And, you know, there's so manythings.
I just would want people toknow that, you know, you don't
have to be activists, someonethat's been working in these
movement for decades, all youneed to do is if a cause is
(30:40):
important to you, if an issue isimportant to you, figure out
how you can help.
Maybe that is just answering aphone, but any little act can
make a difference.
Jennie (30:52):
Regina, thank you so much for being here.
It was so fun to talk to youtoday about the Supreme Court
decision, but also to talk aboutyour policy agenda.
It was great to hear about it.
Regina (31:01):
Thanks so much.
It's always great talking toyou, Jennie.
Jennie (31:05):
Okay, y'all.
I hope you enjoyed myconversation with Dr.
Davis Moss.
I had a wonderful time talkingto her and hearing about what
the implications were going tobe from this Medina decision.
There's, again, just so muchheavy happening.
But I'm very excited for nextweek's episode because we're
going to get part two of theTitle X providers talking about
(31:25):
the implications of the Trumpadministration freezing their
funding.
So, I'm very excited to sharetheir stories with you.
And so we will have three moreproviders sharing their story
next week.
So, I will see y'all then.
If you have any questions,comments or topics you would
like us to cover, always feelfree to shoot me an email.
You can reach me at Jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can
(31:50):
find us on social media.
We're at rePROs Fight Back onFacebook and Twitter or @Repros
FB on Instagram.
If you love our podcast andwant to make sure more people
find it, take the time to rateand review us on your favorite
podcast platform.
Or if you want to make sure tosupport the podcast, you can
also donate on our website atreprosfightback.com.
(32:10):
Thanks all.
Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things
related to sexual andreproductive health, rights, and
justice. [music intro] HirePROs, how's everybody doing?
I'm your host, Jennie Wetter,and my pronouns are she/ her.
Well, before we get to the badand terrible, let's start off
with some happiness again.
(00:23):
Last week, I talked to youabout my excitement about
Wisconsin State Supreme Courtstriking down a 176-year-old
abortion ban, which was amazingnews out of Wisconsin.
This week, the Wisconsin StateSupreme Court was back upholding
a ban on conversion therapy.
So, it is so wonderful to seethem standing up for our rights,
(00:44):
to block an abortion ban, toensure that the ban on
conversion therapy stays inplace.
I am just so excited for myfriends and family who are still
in Wisconsin who no longer haveto fear these restrictions that
were in place or worry aboutconversion therapy.
So, feeling like a very proudWisconsinite, happy Badger
(01:06):
today.
So I wanted to share that pieceof good news since there is a
lot of of other just not greatnews, right?
Since we last talked, theterrible "Big, Beautiful Bill,"
I feel stupider every time I sayit, y'all.
Hopefully we don't have to talkabout it much anymore, but
there's so much terrible in it,was passed and signed into law.
(01:29):
So, so, so many terrible thingsin it.
A huge, massive increase offunding for ICE, which is not
good.
Massive cuts to Medicaid.
ban on funding for PlannedParenthood, massive tax cuts for
the wealthy, cuts to foodstamps.
Y'all, just so much terrible inone terrible, terrible bill.
(01:52):
So many people are going to behurt by all of these provisions.
And I'm sure we'll talk aboutthe fallout from it for so much
more.
But just, yeah, not good,y'all.
Really worried about thatmassive funding increase for
ICE.
Really worried about thedefunding of Planned Parenthood
and what that's going to do foraccess to care.
(02:15):
Really worried about the hugecuts in SNAP benefits and the
loss of Medicaid and what that'sgoing to mean for people on
Medicaid, but also for peoplewho aren't on Medicaid but are
going to be impacted by ruralhospitals being forced to close.
The hospital I grew up going tois considered a rural hospital,
(02:36):
so it could be impacted.
There is so much that I am moreabout all of the people who are
going to be harmed because ofthese terrible decisions that
were made to support this bill.
Yeah.
So again, just...
let's go back to the happinessof thinking about Wisconsin
State Supreme Court doing theright things and that being
(02:58):
really wonderful.
And I'm going to choose tofocus on that part.
But yeah, just feeling reallyheavy this week with...
knowing that this bill wassigned into law and what it is
going to mean for people's livesaround the country.
And most of it is not good.
Yeah, I'm trying to think ifthere's anything else exciting.
I've been back to baking alittle bit, which was exciting.
(03:19):
I think I told you all beforelast week, I made really yummy
flourless peanut butterchocolate chip cookies, which
were really good.
This weekend, I made oatmuffins with little jammy bits
in them, which were very good.
I had those for breakfast allweek.
I'm going to try and makesomething again this weekend.
Like I said, I've really fallenoff the baking train, and so I
(03:42):
am...
trying to get back on it.
It does bring me joy.
I know that people love seeingwhat I post when I share what
I've made, so I want to get backto it.
So, I think that's where I'm atright now.
I think that's probably enoughchit chat.
I'm sure you want to hear whatwe're going to talk about this
week because it is a reallyimportant conversation.
(04:02):
I am talking to Dr.
Regina Davis Moss with In OurOwn Voice: National Black
Women's Reproductive JusticeAgenda, to talk about the Medina
decision at the Supreme Court, and what that is going to mean in people's lives, but particularly focusing on Black women. It's a really great conversation, and I hope y'all enjoy. So, let's go to my conversation with Dr. Davis Moss.
Hi, Dr. Davis Moss. Thank you so much for being here today!
Regina (04:12):
Hi Jennie.
So glad to be here.
(04:33):
I am very excited to talk with you about the Medina decision at the Supreme Court. But before we get started, would you like to take a second to introduce yourself, and include your pronouns?
Sure. Dr. Regina Davis Moss, Presidentand CEO of In Our Own Voice:
National Black Women'sReproductive Justice Agenda.
And my pronouns are she/ her/hers.
Jennie (04:56):
Thank you.
Like I said, I'm really excitedto talk to you about this
decision because it is going tohave some really wide ranging
impacts.
But before we can talk aboutthe impacts, maybe we should
talk about the case.
And it's Medina v.
Planned Parenthood of SouthAtlantic.
What was this case about?
Regina (05:17):
Yeah, I mean, what the case was about was, for me, what
it boiled down to was reallyeverything that we have been
trying to talk about with regardto reproductive justice.
That where you live, you know,your geography and your ability
to pay and your income is reallynow going to be how you access
(05:40):
care.
When we think aboutreproductive justice, this is
what the 12 founding motherswere trying to uplift that, you
know, we live in a system in theUnited States where there's the
two-tiered healthcare system,where there's two types of
healthcare.
And if you can pay for betterhealth care, then you get that.
(06:00):
If not, then you have to relyon our public health care
system.
And so what that case was justsaying is that if you are on
Medicaid, there is a provisionin there that says you should
have the right to choose yourprovider.
And that case said that peopledidn't have that right, or at
least they didn't have the rightto sue.
But that's really, in my mind,a sort of you know, formality in
(06:24):
terms of where we're ultimatelygoing to end up, which is that,
you know, this is just thebeginning of a pattern, a
growing pattern that we haveseen in terms of restricting
access.
You know, now we're talkingabout just reproductive health
care.
You know, this is what I wantpeople to really understand is
that that case was not aboutabortion.
(06:44):
That was just about care.
Right.
But it's just, you know, it'sthe beginning, only the
beginning of of what we're goingto see.
We're going to get intocontraception, screening,
prenatal care, even the abortiondrug.
This is really, it was a sadday for me.
(07:05):
And just in terms of, it wasstruck right at the heart of
everything we fight for in termsof reproductive justice.
We are saying that we need tocenter access.
We need to center autonomy Andwe need to center equity and
that all of those are impactedwhen we look at things like
(07:29):
race, class, gender, andobviously where we live.
In this case, it was SouthCarolina.
And those intersect, thosesystems intersect as well as
exacerbate, you know, issuesthat get into the in the way of
people being able toself-determine their
reproductive lives.
Jennie (07:47):
I really liked how you framed that.
It is such this bigger questionand it is often getting lost in
the discussion because PlannedParenthood brought the case.
And yes, it's about PlannedParenthood in some ways, but it
was bigger than that, right?
It wasn't just about yourability to access care at
Planned Parenthood becausethat's just the start.
Regina (08:11):
Yeah, it's just really, it's about, it's restricting the
autonomy based on wheresomebody lives and the type of
insurance they have.
And, you know, it goes to whatwe have always said is that you
can't...
rights need to be focused inreal world access, not just
laws.
We have to make sure thatpeople understand that any time
(08:35):
we put up any sort of barrier,then it's going to delay care.
It is going to increase access.
you know, maternal mortality,infant mortality.
You know, we talked about this.
It wasn't just about abortion.
This was about reproductive andpreventive services.
And so now those things hingeon the laws of your state.
(08:56):
They're not just yourconstitutional right anymore.
And this is not, it'sdevastating and it is not going
to stop.
It is a growing pattern and itjust really, again, illustrates
how where you live in thiscountry, what is supposed to be
the land of the free, how youraccess to care is going to
(09:17):
really depend on where you live.
Jennie (09:19):
I feel like this has just become more and more true
over the years.
And as somebody who grew up ina rural area, and now I would
say like a purplish state, Igrew up in Wisconsin, like, I
really feel that.
And I think about that in termsof access to Medicaid or even
(09:40):
thinking through thereconciliation bill that is
happening that could really gutMedicaid, it is going to impact
those who have the most need ofaccess to that healthcare.
And I think it's important thatpeople understand that it is
going to impact everybody aswell.
So, if your local hospital isnot able to get Medicaid
(10:01):
reimbursements, your local ruralhospital may not be able to
stay open.
And so this is going to impacteverybody.
Regina (10:07):
That's right.
I mean, we're already insituations where people are
already having to drive an hourbecause they don't have full for
delivery or whatever type ofservices sometimes they're not
the specialized services aren'tavailable in their local in
health care whether that be aprovider or urgent care center
(10:27):
or a community health center andso they will particularly in
rural areas they're alreadyhaving to drive. So, imagine if
this bill goes forward you knowwe know that's like a trillion
dollars you know in cuts And itis absolutely going to have an
impact on the availability ofcare.
(10:48):
It is already projected that 17million people will lose their
health coverage.
So that's health coverage.
But then we have to talk about,the healthcare facilities
aren't there.
I have long said that we havebeen talking about these issues.
We've been trying to raise thealarm bell on them.
(11:09):
I mean, if you think about...
you know, when you're drivingin a car and the warning light
comes on, you know, you can keepdriving.
But if you ignore it, sooner orlater, that engine is going to
give out on you.
And that's what we're seeingwith our health care system.
It was already very, verycontinuous on shaky ground.
And now we have been saying foryears, you know, that the
(11:34):
warning light is on.
And now this is we're going tobe in significant trouble.
It's going to break down.
Jennie (11:40):
So, I think it's also really important to talk about
who is going to be the mostimpacted.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about who is going to feel
the impacts the most from theSupreme Court decision?
Regina (11:51):
Yeah, I mean, in terms of, you know, I, at In Our Own
Voice, we champion the human andcivil rights for Black women,
girls, and gender expansivepeople every day because we
think it's important for peopleto understand just how
devastating the any sort ofsustained and ongoing attack on
(12:13):
our human and civil rights are.
This is just one example withthe Supreme Court ruling.
It is just absolutely a directattack for a number of reasons,
right?
It's because Black women,two-thirds of births by Black
birthing people are covered byMedicaid.
Over half of Black girls under17 are on Medicaid.
(12:35):
One in four Black women rely onMedicaid.
So, it is very critical forhealthcare services.
And, you know, again, we're notjust talking about abortion.
We are talking about, you know,these lifesaving services like
STI testing, breast cancerscreening, birth control, so
much more.
And so, you know, when we talkabout the impact, it is not an
(12:59):
understatement to say that thiswill be devastating, that this
will head us off at the knees.
You know, this is a lifelineprogram for so many Black women,
girls, and gender expansivepeople.
Jennie (13:13):
Yeah, it's the ability to take control and plan your
life.
Regina (13:17):
That's exactly what it is.
I mean, we are, you know, weare, this is what, it is so
frustrating sometimes to keephaving to ring this bell alarm
bell to say like, this is what,why we have been fighting for
reproductive justice, because itis about access to
(13:40):
comprehensive, affordablehealthcare, including all the
things that I just talked about,but, you know, maternal care,
and that's a core tenant ofreproductive justice.
And so when we, when we dothat, then we'd be, we're able
to exercise that right to havechildren, to not have children,
to parent those children in safeand sustainable environments.
(14:02):
And by cutting access toMedicaid, both through the
Supreme Court decision, but alsobased on what is happening with
this current bill that ismoving through Congress and the
direct cuts to that, it is adirect threat on reproductive
justice because it deniesmillions of people the resources
(14:23):
they need to make informeddecisions, supported decisions
in accessible ways in theircommunities and so that they
can, you know, thrive.
Jennie (14:35):
I think it's so easy to talk about all of these things
in a vacuum, right?
Like we'll talk about the cutson Medicaid here.
We'll talk about abortion banshere.
We'll talk about Black maternalmortality here.
But this is all the same story,right?
It is so important that theyare talked about together and
(14:55):
how they are exacerbatingissues.
And well, I guess not eachother because like Black
maternal mortality is beingexacerbated by these other two
things that are making analready terrible crisis so much
worse.
Regina (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, I don't think people should
be looking at them as separatebecause they're, in my opinion,
by design occurring in paralleltracks.
Because that is what we, thatis the goal to completely
destabilize our healthcaresystem.
You know, we, need to make surethat people really understand
(15:31):
what is at stake here.
If you look at Project 2025, itis already there.
We already knew.
We had a very good sense ofwhat the dangers were going to
be.
They told us exactly what theywere going to do.
And we're watching this playout in real time.
We are under threat like neverbefore.
(15:53):
We should not be looking atthis as if oh, well, this is
just coincidental here.
They are taking very bold,calculated steps, and we need to
respond in kind with bold,urgent action that is really
going to confront the variousattacks that are happening
(16:13):
across all of these differentplaces.
There's attacks on genderidentity.
There's attacks on care.
There's attacks on you know,SNAP benefits.
Like we're going to be hungry,dead, and unable to survive.
Jennie (16:31):
Yeah, I feel like that just needed a second to like
sink in for everybody of likehow dire the situation is at the
moment.
I really love that you talkedabout we need a bold plan of
action.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe plan that y'all have worked
on for the RJ agenda?
Regina (16:48):
Yeah, I am so glad you asked that.
You know, we on Thursday, thesame day as we heard about the
Medina v.
Planned Parenthood case, wewere already on the hill and we
were launching our 2025 BlackReproductive Justice Policy
Agenda.
This is something that werelease every two years and
(17:09):
ahead of the new Congress.
And it's more than just apolicy document.
It is really literally aguidebook, the playbook.
It is a call to action forlawmakers on how to do this
work.
It is over 125 policyrecommendations put forth by
(17:31):
over 50 organizations, policyexperts, activists, and it is
there to protect and upliftBlack women, girls, and gender
expansive people.
But in our perspective, just aswhen the 12 Black women created
the Reproductive Justicemovement, you know, when Black
women, because we are some ofthe most marginalized,
(17:54):
dismissed, forgotten aboutpeople in the United States,
when we do better, we all dobetter.
And so, just as those 12 Blackwomen gave this incredible gift
of the Reproductive Justiceframework to the United States,
which is now a global movementat this point, this is what this
policy agenda is.
It is grounded in science.
(18:15):
It is based in what we knowthat's been heavily researched
to work--everything from doulasand midwifery, comprehensive sex
ed, environmental and economicjustice.
What are the policies that weknow work that are going to help
(18:35):
advance this work so thatultimately, for us, we are
fighting for people to havetheir reproductive lives
affirmed, however that is.
And that can be either to wantto have a child, to not have a
child, or to just be able tolive out loud in terms of your
(18:58):
sexuality, your gender identity,or whoever you love.
Jennie (19:02):
I love a bold plan of action.
I am always a fan of seeingwhat all we need to do because
there are so many areas that areso interrelated, but yet people
don't often connect all of thedots that need to be connected.
So, I'm always a big fan ofhaving policy agendas that try
to do that.
Regina (19:23):
Yeah, you know, it's so, it just warmed my heart to,
number one, all of the responsesthat we received when we
released it, but just to getcalls from people and say, oh,
my God, there's everything inhere.
There's something for my work.
You know, whether you areworking in breast care, whether
you are working withincarcerated individuals, it
(19:46):
really does range in terms ofhow we need to address this
issue because we've always knownthat it's you know you this is
not siloed work.
You are not going to be able toadvance reproductive justice by
only looking at it in terms ofwhether or not you have the
right to have an abortion;honestly you are getting it
(20:08):
wrong if that is where you thinkthe conversation should end and
start.
You know, we need to talk aboutthings like: can people stay in
school, can people keep theirjob, can people who already have
a pre-existing health conditionsafely carry a pregnancy, do
they have access to you knowhealth care so that they can get
(20:30):
in early to have prenatal careor to have screening, are they
struggling with you knowfertility issues? How do we
make sure Black women and genderexpansive people are able to
access care because, by the way,the research shows that we tend
to get into care later and thenour success rates tend to not
(20:52):
be as high.
So, it's really important thatwe are calling attention to the
unique health outcomes andexperiences of Black women,
girls, and gender expansivepeople, so that we can make sure
that people are not justcreating a one size fits all
policy, but one that is reallygoing to directly address the
(21:16):
unique needs and the livedexperiences.
Jennie (21:19):
That is such an important point, like, you so
often hear people focusing onlike if we could just do this
one thing or or this one policywill make everything so much
better but it's so much morenuanced and complicated than
that.
You need to be able to addressso many different aspects of
people's lives and addressingthem as a whole person.
(21:40):
It's so great to hear that thatis how your agenda is
approaching this.
Regina (21:46):
Yeah, I mean, can I tell you a story about what that
(22:09):
shows?
Jennie (22:15):
Always.
Regina (22:15):
One of them, they were sexually assaulted.
So, that speaks to safe andsustainable communities, right?
Then they're walking into theirschool where they have to walk
through a metal detector.
So, then, there's a narrativethat we are continuing to impose
about certain communities andthe need to be over-surveilled
(22:35):
and over-policed.
But we need to think about thekid who's coming to school who's
hungry, right?
So, they're coming to schoolmaybe because that's the only
meal they're going to get thatday, breakfast and lunch.
So, what are some things thatwe can do?
We have policies that say,because our policies are both
big P and little p, like bigpolicy and little policy.
(22:58):
So, maybe it's something assimple as having a fresh fruit
or a protein bar or a granolabar right there at the metal
detectors so that any studentwho's walking by that can grab
that.
And then the issues aroundhunger and poverty are
destigmatized, right?
(23:19):
Some kids are not going toschool because they're being
teased because maybe they don'thave running water, right?
And so they don't have theopportunity to, you know, wash
their clothes.
But by doing things likeplacing security guards by the
showers, so people can shower oreven bringing in laundry
(23:41):
facilities and so students cancome and wash their clothes.
You are creating opportunityfor people to stay in school and
to be not shamed and not haveto be subjected to stigma, but
most important to be able tolearn so that they can go on to
be productive and citizens thatcontribute to the society,
(24:03):
right?
At the end of the day, what wehave to be very clear on is that
the face of the nation ischanging, right?
Right now we know that everychild born, half of them, you
know, 50%, or one in twochildren that are born is a
person of color, right?
So it is really on us to makesure that everybody is healthy,
(24:27):
that everyone can produce,right?
You know, we're alwaysconcerned about how we are going
to be competitive with theseother nations and, you know, how
do we stay on top?
Well, we stay on top by makingsure that we're taking care of
our own, that we are providingthe resources and the
opportunities to be able to doso, to be able to, we want our
(24:50):
kids to be able to focus whenthey're in class.
And so, you know, that's justone example of the various ways
that that one of the tenets interms of the right to raise your
child in a safe and sustainableenvironment can be so
far-reaching, and it just can'tsimply be about health care.
Jennie (25:08):
I think that's one of the things that makes
reproductive justice so...
simple in so many ways but alsoso expansive because it is like
all of the things right it iseverything you need to live in a
safe and healthy environment tomake the decisions to have
kids, to not have kids.
(25:28):
It's so many things but it has,like, that simple basic tenant
behind it even if enacting itinvolves this huge array of
policies to ensure that you canget to this basic core tenet of
safe, healthy lives and makingbasic decisions about whether to
(25:49):
have kids or not.
Regina (25:51):
Yeah, I think if you just, you know, again, don't
center this only about abortion,right?
Like at its core, it's abouthaving control over our body,
our life, our future, ourfamilies, and however you show
up in that.
You know, that includes oursexuality, that includes our
reproduction, but it's about thebodily autonomy and having the
(26:14):
human right for that to beaffirmed.
Jennie (26:18):
Okay.
So I always like to wrap up theepisodes, not just talking
about what is happening and whatpeople need to be worried
about, what is coming down thepike with policies, but how can
they get involved?
So if the audience wants to getinvolved in fighting for these
issues, what can they do?
Regina (26:34):
Oh, I mean, you, number one, make sure that you are
following In Our Own Voice.
www.blackrj.org is our website.
@Black Womens RJ are oursocials.
You can follow us across all ofour social media.
We are always trying to workvery hard to make sure that we
(26:55):
are breaking down the day-to-daypolicy news in a way that you
can understand and how it isrelevant to you.
And then when you get thatinformation and you take it
back to your community.
Take it back to your tribe.
Take it back to your friendsand family.
Because honestly, you arelisteners.
(27:16):
You are actually the bestadvocates, right?
I mean, think about when afriend or a loved one or someone
that you care about and youtrust tells you something and
educates you on something youdon't know.
You act upon it and you alsoshare it.
And so that's what we want todo is to make sure that people
are getting the information sothat they are empowered.
So yes, we would say, we liketo tell people, start with your
(27:41):
kitchen table.
So, those are the people thatare close to you.
But also, I mean, in a timeright now where we are every day
seeing policies that arethreatening our health and
well-being crop up, contact yourelected official.
Let them know that you are nothappy with this policy is going
to do it and tell them how it'sgoing to impact you directly.
(28:04):
I mean, we have to rememberthat they work for us.
You know, there is somehow somesort of something happens where
we don't believe that we canhold them accountable and that,
you know, I want people to knowthat just as easy as it was to
vote them in, it's easy to votethem out.
So don't, you know, adopt thethinking that it's hopeless and
(28:27):
nothing's going to change andthere's nothing we can do.
There's absolutely something wecan do.
That is how we have seenhistorically things happen.
You know, at some point, thepeople speak up.
They say they've had enough.
They begin to apply thepressure.
We see change.
And so, that's absolutelysomething we should do.
(28:48):
And then we don't need to wait.
We don't have to wait for anelection year to do that.
We can do that at all levels.
You can do that with yourschool board.
You can do that with yourlibrary board.
You can do that with any areathat I talked about where you
find that is personally relevantto you.
(29:09):
Find out who are the leaders,who are the decision makers.
Become educated on the types ofthings they are trying to
enact.
And if you agree, absolutely,we should be supportive.
We want to make sure we'renormalizing good policy right
now, especially when we'reseeing a lot of things that are
(29:32):
being, that are very harmful.
So let them, you know, we wantto make sure that the
policymakers that are doing agood job know that we like what
they're doing and give them thepat on the back.
But the ones that aren't, wewant to make sure that they hear
us loud and clear and that theycan't ignore us.
We will not be silenced.
And then, you know, these aremore than ever.
(29:54):
Members of Congress will tellyou that it's tough right now.
And so they really do rely ongrassroots organizations to be
able to do some of the work thatthey can't.
So, it's important to keepsupporting those organizations
that are doing great things inyour community.
They're the ones that are goingto continue to be the sound the
(30:18):
alarm on the things that aremost important.
And, you know, there's so manythings.
I just would want people toknow that, you know, you don't
have to be activists, someonethat's been working in these
movement for decades, all youneed to do is if a cause is
(30:40):
important to you, if an issue isimportant to you, figure out
how you can help.
Maybe that is just answering aphone, but any little act can
make a difference.
Jennie (30:52):
Regina, thank you so much for being here.
It was so fun to talk to youtoday about the Supreme Court
decision, but also to talk aboutyour policy agenda.
It was great to hear about it.
Regina (31:01):
Thanks so much.
It's always great talking toyou, Jennie.
Jennie (31:05):
Okay, y'all.
I hope you enjoyed myconversation with Dr.
Davis Moss.
I had a wonderful time talkingto her and hearing about what
the implications were going tobe from this Medina decision.
There's, again, just so muchheavy happening.
But I'm very excited for nextweek's episode because we're
going to get part two of theTitle X providers talking about
(31:25):
the implications of the Trumpadministration freezing their
funding.
So, I'm very excited to sharetheir stories with you.
And so we will have three moreproviders sharing their story
next week.
So, I will see y'all then.
If you have any questions,comments or topics you would
like us to cover, always feelfree to shoot me an email.
You can reach me at Jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can
(31:50):
find us on social media.
We're at rePROs Fight Back onFacebook and Twitter or @Repros
FB on Instagram.
If you love our podcast andwant to make sure more people
find it, take the time to rateand review us on your favorite
podcast platform.
Or if you want to make sure tosupport the podcast, you can
also donate on our website atreprosfightback.com.
(32:10):
Thanks all.
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