rePROs Fight Back released its 13th annual 50-State Report Card on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights. The United States, overall, received an ‘F’ grade, while 5 states received an ‘A’ and 25 states failed. Jennie Wetter, Director of the rePROs Fight Back initiative and host of the rePROs Fight Back podcast, sits down to discuss this staggering loss of rights and the continuous fight for our right to bodily autonomy with Tarah Demant, Interim National Director of Programs, Advocacy, and Government Affairs at Amnesty International USA.
While 2024 had some bright spots, including abortion-related ballot measures passing in 7 of the 10 states where they were on the ballot, we are still experiencing the fallout of the 2022 Dobbs decision. The human rights crisis unleashed by that decision has led states to continue restricting abortion access and has emboldened anti-rights advocates to increase their attacks on gender-affirming care. Using 11 criteria, the 50-State Report Card ranks each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia on three broad indicators relating to reproductive health and rights: prevention, affordability, and access to services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Repro Fight Back a podcast on all
things related to sexual andreproductive health rights and
justice. Hi. Re pros. How'severybody doing? I'm your host
Jenny Wetter , and my pronounsare she her. So y'all , I'm
recording this just aftergetting a haircut and color.
And I had a while before, sincemy last one, so my hair had
(00:26):
like really grown out. And somy hairs last and I were
talking, we decided , we'relooking at pictures for
inspiration and decided to gosuper short, which I know I
have a pixie already. But like,we went really short and
decided that, you know what, ifwe're gonna do super short and
cut, we can go super bold incolor. Y'all, we went real
(00:49):
bright red. It is, it'sgorgeous. It , but it was like
such a change that it wasreally shocking. Um, it took a
minute to grow on me and like , I think she got a
little worried sitting watchingme in the chair. 'cause I was
like, it took a minute for my,for me to adjust to such a big
color change. But it looksreally great. And I got outside
(01:12):
in the sun and it was like sucha vibrant, bright red. It's
just stunning. So, thank youLeah . It looks beautiful. I
love it. And I'm so happy tohave my super short pixie
cutback because it really hadgotten long and out of control
and , uh, I need to not letthat happen again because it
was, it was bad. It was bad.
Y'all, I think I'm just gonnastop there because we're doing
(01:36):
something a little differenttoday. I'm the one being
interviewed. So with that,let's just throw it over to
Tara.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Hello. Podcast listeners. I bet this was not
the voice you were expecting.
Hello, my name is Tara Demantand my pronouns is she , her
and I am not Jenny Wetter , thehost of Repos Fight Back . I am
, um, however, a gratefulcolleague of Jennys . I work at
C International USA and I'mreally excited to welcome our
guests to the podcast today.
Who is Jenny Wetter ? Jenny ,can you introduce yourself and
(02:07):
your pronouns and a little bitabout why you're here today on
that side of the microphone?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah. Oh, first Tara, thank you so much for
doing this. I am so gratefulthat you were able to jump in
and play Host today. It'salways so much fun and also
weird to be on the other sideof the microphone. But anyhow ,
um, I am Jenny Wetter . Um , mypronouns are she her. I am
coming here not as the host ofre Pros Fight Back , but as the
(02:33):
director of the re Pros FightBack Initiative at the
Population Institute. And I amhere to talk about our brand
new 50 state report card thatjust got released last week
when you all hear this.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So one taste of your own medicine being on the other
side, Mike . Um , sonow you know how other guests
are so excited to talk aboutthese things , um, and to , to
have those questions asked. Soreally grateful to talk to you
around these things. Not just'cause 'cause of the broad work
that we all do, butparticularly as like a human
rights practitioner. The ideaof reproductive rights in the
(03:05):
United States is of a hugeconcern, obviously, to the
human rights community and tohopefully all communities as
we're seeing what's happening.
So this report card launchedlast week, if you're listening.
Um, but on , um, Wednesday,March 19th, tell us a little
bit about the scope of this.
When, when we say this likereport card launch , what is it
that actually came out into theworld?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, so we, we started doing this report card.
This is our 13th annual reportcard. And we wanted to start
doing it to fit into that gapof people were familiar of some
of the egregious attacks thatwere happening at the state
level. Like if something inparticular was bad was kicking
off, like for example, inTexas. But if you had
(03:49):
conversations with them, theywere less familiar of what the
laws were around sexualreproductive health in their
own states, you'd be like, didyou know your state doesn't
mandate sex ed? And they had noidea. So we wanted to make sure
to kind of fill that gap togive people a tool to see how
their state compared to otherstates, which is why we started
(04:09):
doing the 50 state report card.
And I also think it helps fillsome of that gap of so much of
our work falls into silos,right? Mm-hmm .
So this person talks aboutbirth control. This person does
abortion work, this personworks on Medicaid, but all of
these are integral to people'ssexual and reproductive health
(04:31):
and rights. And we need to makesure that we are talking about
them as one thing that they allwork together or , and are
interrelated. And not just,this is really bad abortion
stuff that is happening. But wealso need to talk about, well,
that state also doesn't mandatesex ed mm-hmm .
They also have theseaffordability issues. We wanna
make sure that people aregetting that whole big picture
(04:55):
and not just the like separatesingle silo attacks.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
What are the things that you're covering in the
report card?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah. So again, like I said, it's kind of a big
thing. So I think the best wayto think about it is in
categories. We have three maincategories of indicators we
look at. We look at prevention,and that's things like sex
education. Um, sex educationvaries widely from state to
state, honestly, from schooldistrict to school district.
Mm-hmm. You needto make sure that young people
(05:24):
are getting a comprehensivemedically accurate sex
education. I've talked about myexperience before going to
Catholic school and having sexed from a nun. So like I know
the, like longer term harms ofgetting inaccurate sex
education and not comprehensivesex education and how that sets
you up for failure late inlater in life. The next thing
(05:47):
we look at under prevention isaccess to emergency
contraception in the emergencyroom. Making sure that ERs are
not only telling , uh, sexualassault victims, it's an
option, but also giving it tothem if they want it. And then
the last prevention thing welook at is making sure that
minors are able to consent tobirth control. And that's
really important to make surethat young people are able to
(06:09):
access care. The next categorywe have is affordability,
access doesn't matter if youcan't afford the services,
right? So it is a reallyimportant category. And three
of the indicators we look atunder that relate to Medicaid.
Medicaid is a really bigprogram covering so many
things, but it's reallyimportant to remember it also
(06:30):
plays a big role and sexual andreproductive health. It covers
family planning and othersexual and reproductive health
services. Right now, more than40% of births in the country
are covered by Medicaid andmaternal healthcare . So we
wanna make sure that stateshave expanded their Medicaid
program under the AffordableCare Act. We wanna make that
states have expanded theirfamily planning coverage beyond
(06:53):
what the base coverage is. Alot of states do that by
expanding based on income. Um,and the last one, and honestly
y'all, this is the one liketrue good news story in this
report card is Medicaid decidedthat states could expand their
maternal health coverage forone year postpartum. And at a
time when we have a maternalmortality crisis, particularly
(07:16):
for black women, this is huge.
Yeah. And I thought this wasgonna play out like Medicaid
expansion under the AffordableCare Act, where lots of states
were just gonna refuse to doit. But as of right now, only
Wisconsin and Arkansas have notmade that one year expansion.
Like honestly a truly good newsstory, which again, we all need
(07:39):
that bright ray of hopesomewhere, right?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
we all need.
So what's the last quarter? Youhave prevention, you have
affordability. What's the lastbucket?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Access. So we look at abortion restrictions like
gestational bans, making surethat states don't have waiting
periods, which make people cometo the clinic twice. Again,
making sure that young peopleare able to access care. So
making sure that there aren'tparental consent and notice
laws. We also wanna make surestates don't have trap laws or
extra regulations on medicationabortion. So who can provide a
(08:10):
medication abortion or makingsure that people come in
person. We wanna make sure thatstates aren't doing that. And
then the last thing we look atis making sure that states
aren't banning best practicegender affirming care. Um , we
wanna make sure that youngpeople are able to access that
lifesaving and life changinghealthcare .
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Let's dive in a little bit. You've talked a
number of these categories andthe way that young people
particularly are implicated. Soaround prevention, you know,
two of your three categories,sex ed and then access for
minors. And then when you'retalking around access, can
young people access , uh,abortion related care? Can they
access other types of care ?
Can they access genderaffirming care? Where do you
(08:51):
see young people showing up inthis type of report card? Do
you see differences in the waythat a state treats younger
people, young people or minors?
So let's say, you know, 17 oryounger as opposed to the way
it treats people the agemajority adults, you know, 18
or over?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah. I , I think, you know, parental consent laws
are like really widespread inso many states. Um, I can't
remember the number off the topof my head. Sorry y'all. But it
is a shocking number of stateshave parental consent laws for
abortion. And, and so I thinkthat is like one place. I think
this comes down to people stillfeel like a way like icky or
(09:33):
uncomfortable talking aboutyoung people and sex. And, and
that's not fair to youngpeople, right? They need to be
able to have the tools theyneed to make healthy decisions
about their lives. And they'reset up to fail often from the
beginning by not giving themcomprehensive sex ed. And, and
this is one of those thingsthat I will say continues to
(09:53):
surprise me every year of themixture of states that don't
mandate sex ed. Right? It's notjust the ones you think mm-hmm
. And even insome of the states that are
failing, they do require sex edor some forms of sex ed. But
then you have a state likeMassachusetts or Colorado that
doesn't mandate any at all. So,you know, you can't just assume
(10:15):
you know, what states are doingfor young people. And I think
that is again, the core, theplace to start is looking at
sex ed and then looking ifminors are allowed to consent
to accessing services. Andagain, that's one of those that
you do see some like stateswhere you wouldn't expect
allowing it and some statesthat you wouldn't expect not
(10:37):
allowing it.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah. I mean I think you , you get to where there's
just an ickiness people feelaround the question of youth
and sexuality and Yeah, forsure. And then also like a , a
hard line in the sand for whogets rights when Right. At 18.
And
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Like the parents should be able to have that
say, and like, I , I think wesee that around, you know,
pushback. We get around nothaving parental consent laws
or, and this is a place whereyou can see the anti rights
movement really trying to peelpeople off, right? Mm-hmm
. They use theyoung people as the gateway to
(11:12):
start chipping away at access.
So that's really where youstarted to see abortion bans
coming in with putting inparental consent laws. And then
once you started there, well ,well , there were other ways
you could chip away at, atabortion laws and now you're
seeing that play out again withgender affirming care, where
you see people targeting minorsaccess to gender affirming
(11:32):
care. Because again, there'sthat like discomfort and people
don't have the familiaritywith, with , um, trans people
in general, but particularlyyoung trans people. And so it's
easier, doesn't feel like theright word, but it's like that
way to start chipping in andalso knowing it doesn't stop
there.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right? I mean, there's two things you're sort
of talking around. We can talkmore topics, but I'm really
interested in this because Ithink one is, you're exactly
right, like miners are a muchquote unquote easier target to
take away rights , right?
They're a much easier target toreduce these rights because
people across politicalspectrums will have a different
reaction Yeah . Than they willto rights being taken away for
(12:15):
adults, right? Legal adults andparticularly around sex and
sexuality, right? So thisbecomes a way in which anti
rights actors can begin to takeaway rights. Like they're taken
away from young people, but asa way to test balloon how
they're going to take awayrights overall. So how are they
chipping away at our sexualreproductive rights in general?
Well, let's start with parentalconsent laws because you can
(12:38):
get across the, you know, aisleum , agreement on these things.
I , the other, and I , I thinkit's, it's a real challenge in
that the way that rights,language and law in general,
right, is, is based on the agemajority at 18 or wherever your
state , um, the government ofbeing the , the federal
government , um, or stategovernment sets the age of
adulthood, right ? Andtherefore, before that exists
(13:00):
this sort of legal space of avariety of types of
understandings of rights. Andthat's, you know , true in the
human rights space as well,particularly under sexual
reproductive health and rights.
That like there are differencesin maturity between adults and
minors, but that young peoplestill have rights and there is
a moving maturation, right?
(13:21):
This understanding that like,it may be different for a
five-year-old than it is a12-year-old, but it's not, it's
not that then the answer iscompletely opposite of what an
18-year-old has for rights. AndI , I think that becomes a
trickier spot, but also a placethat we see the beginnings of
rights being taken away andlike the rights that are taken
away when you are young willdramatically impact the rest of
(13:42):
your life. Right? And youtalked about sex ed. So I
actually wanna zoom in on sexed. You and I have talked on
this podcast before on ourdifferent experiences or
similar experiences in verydifferent states around sex
education. So I noticed that myhome state, the golden state of
California received an Acategory and I'm always,
there's such good work goingon, protecting rights at the ,
(14:03):
um, state level and a lot oflaw and policy. And I grew up
in California and went toschool, a public school in
California and receivedabstinence only education at my
public high school inCalifornia. So , and that ,
that was clearly not this yearof our Lord 2025 to , I mean ,
I hope not like some or twoyears ago being 30 years ago.
(14:25):
But like, but like the lawsaround how education gets
rolled out is very different.
So what does it mean to give astate like California an A
grade when the reality is, andI know this for a fact at the
high school that I went to,they still don't teach sex ed.
They teach abstinence only. Andthere's obviously a huge
religious bent to that, but sowhat does it mean to give a
(14:46):
really good grade where there'sgoing to be actual real
failures?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah. I think this is so important that the
utility of having a statewidereport card of seeing how your
state faires when it comes toother states really hides
things, right? Like accessreally depends on where you
live. And that can be like thestate you live, it can be the
county you live within thatstate. Mm-hmm .
(15:12):
You may have a state likeCalifornia where there are
pockets where you are furtheraway from clinics. You don't
have that same type of access.
Or even just thinking through ,uh, Tara and I both being from
like small towns of, okay, sominors can consent to birth
control, there wasn't a plannedparenthood that I could get to
(15:33):
real easy. So if I had gotten aprescription, the pharmacist
knows my parents, right? Like,there's not like that, I mean,
I'm sure , I'm sure some, a lotof pharmacists will hold that
confidentiality, but like in asmall town, things tend to
maybe work a little different.
And like, so there are thingsthat that, that definitely hide
(15:54):
within that. So California isdoing great compared to other
states, but that is not to saythere is not work to be done. I
mean, again, this is like thelosing sense of time. I think
it was last year had on , uh,someone from access abortion
fund in California, Jessica NeyGill on to talk about where
(16:15):
California needed to change andall of the ways that there are
things that need to be done toincrease access in California.
So that is the downside ofdoing a state by state grade is
it does hide some of thosethings or kind of even the
reverse of like having like badstates. But there are pockets
within that state where theyare doing good things. You hear
(16:36):
about cities in Texas doingreally trying to do things to
help increase access mm-hmm . Or, you know,
developing a fund that's gonnahelp people travel outta state
to get care. So there arethings that inevitably will get
hidden within a state grade,but I still think it is a
really useful tool for peopleto see how their state is
(16:58):
comparing to other states. And,and one thing we did this year
that is different, we have aninteractive tool on our website
where the , you can see thereport card and that's report
card dot repro fight back.com .
And so you'll see the statemaps, you can see how your
state overall compares to otherstates, but then there are also
toggles on the side. And so youcan go sex ed, how does our
(17:21):
state compare when it comes tosex ed? And then the map will
change and you can see how itrelates on all of the
indicators. Um , which is alsojust fascinating to take some
time and play around with tosee where your state is
succeeding. 'cause no statelike got zeros, right? There
are states who are doing realbad, but like nobody got zero.
So there are places wherestates are doing things well,
(17:43):
and I think that is also usefulto acknowledge. Um, we can't
just have everybody failing,although we try
Speaker 2 (17:50):
. I mean, we
can and we'd prefer not
. I I do think that's a , Imean this gets into one of the
questions I have, right? Islike, what is the point of
scorecards and how do we usethat? And I think you spoke
very well to, especially withthis new interactive site,
which is very cool that you cango in and like actually break
down what this grade actuallymeans, right? As opposed to
(18:11):
like, what it doesn't meanCalifornia is like a plus plus
no work needs to be done.
Correct . Every single personhas access to all these rights,
right? Like that is notactually what this means,
it is talking aroundmom policy and then it can show
you within mom policy. So inthat way it's a , it is a , a
baseline setter, right? This isaround the laws and policies
and like what is the baselinethat you need? Then you cannot
(18:34):
make these things happenwithout law and policy. Um, or
if you can ring us up and tellus how, because we, if we don't
know the go
Speaker 1 (18:42):
100 , right? Like Yeah .
Speaker 2 (18:42):
No one gets opposing . Yeah. And like, so what is ,
how do we then, what does thistell the folks who are in
California versus the folks sayin Louisiana, which had a very
different score? What is itthat you hope, first of all,
who do you hope is seeing this?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah. And I think that's a two part thing, right?
So we do wanna policy makers inthose states to see ones who
want to make their state havegood sexual and reproductive
health and rights access to seewhere they're failing compared
to other states or wherethey're succeeding. Mm-hmm .
Um, I, I think that is reallyhelpful to see, be able to
(19:18):
compare hopefully in a good wayto like, make things better.
And then I also think it's areally important tool for
advocates to use to be like,there are ways that we can be
pushing our state to do betterin a state like California.
Like right now California has aviability ban , so that's a
place that they're losingpoints . There's like some
(19:39):
little things around sex ed aswell. So there are, everyone
has things that can be done inLouisiana. I think it is
finding groups on the groundwho are doing that work, right?
We're not an on the groundgroup doing that work, but
there are lots of abortionfunds and other reproductive
justice groups on the ground toconnect with, to find ways to
(20:03):
push state policy makers tomake the changes you need to
make sure that you are giventhe tools to have fulfilled
sexual and reproductive health.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
When you think about the tools for advocates, I
mean, one of the things I knowwe all hope is that folks who
are listening to this podcasttake this resource and are able
to make changes for the commongood in their state. Right? And
the way that like the changeyou make in your state can and
will have a knock on effect forbetter or for worse. Like, and
this is like when states makebad moves, other states will
(20:35):
follow when state meets goodmoves, other states will
follow. Yeah. Um, and I thinkcan offer some hope in the
sense that like, our country isreally going in the wrong
direction in overall in termsof, of human rights and a
particularly sexualreproductive rights. But we can
see opportunities where like,actually government is working
for good and trying to predictrights and here's what it could
(20:55):
look like and here's what itlooks like in your state. I do
think it's really interesting.
Like no, no state receives azero. Like there's no zero, no,
there are two states to receive15, which is not mocho . Right?
And that , um, that's Floridaand Alabama. And, but even
there you can point to here arethings that actually get 15
points these things. Maybethat's somewhere to build on
(21:16):
that. Like folks can look atthat and say like, we seem to
have agreement at least onthis. How can we build on that?
And then also to show like whatdoes it mean to the people of
Florida that like if theyhappened to live in another
state, they would have moresexual and reproductive rights.
And how can that also be agalvanizing tool for a state to
understand, like, this is aboutwhat impacts your people and
(21:39):
the way that like you'reactually not measuring up not
just to some theoretic ideal,but to what other states are
able to achieve. And you're notbetter or worse than that other
state. There's no reason youcouldn't do that. Right. That,
that's like , these are likepolitical choices. So I'm
really, I I'm really excitedabout that possibility. I do
wanna raise to you a veryexistential question and
(22:00):
thinking about as you and I are, are is like, okay, now what
do we do with this? And how dowe make this real and , and ,
and matter, which is thequestion of someone's listening
to this podcast and is like,this is such great information,
this is so good. Also, it looksincredible. It's very well
designed. Oh , think so . It'seasy to navigate and the fact
sheets are easy to use, whichis really key, right? But that
oftentimes people in theopposition to human rights
(22:23):
often locked down into veryideological positions as
opposed to a difference ofopinion based on facts. That
doesn't mean every singleperson who doesn't support, you
know, a sex ed is somehow fullyoppositional to facts. And we
have seen that increasinglyfolks that have become
(22:43):
entrenched in ideologicalopposition are not just having
a difference of opinion. Likewe all kind of want the same
thing, which is safety for ourchildren and ourselves and our
loved ones, and we disagreeabout how to get there. Right?
Instead what we're seeing ishere's facts and people being
like, no, they're not .
Right? So this is a question oflike, why do facts still
(23:04):
matter? When what do we do withthe fact that facts don't
actually help in persuadingothers in a lot of, in a lot of
discourse in the United States.
And increasingly as , you know,we've talked about before, that
increasingly actually facts dothe opposite thing is that they
actually hurt because theycause people to entrench. They
(23:25):
don't help them, they cause 'emto entrench. So if someone
hears a fact that disagreeswith what they, they think,
they then entrench further intothat non-factual opinion that
they have based on not facts.
Certainly. Right. So Iknow . Great . And this is a
very complicated question. Ifyou could just solve this for
America really quickly, that'dbe awesome. Great,
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Tara, thanks for like, not giving me like a
really hard question,
Speaker 2 (23:48):
But like what's the report card in mind? Yeah , I
mean this I think is the realquestion of our time as
advocates. It's like, what doesit mean to take this report
card into a conversation wherefacts decreasingly matter? Why
do we spend our time stilltalking about facts in our line
of work? Oh
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah. That's hard.
And, and one because I , I doinherently believe that that
facts matter and that's likemaybe the like, you know, a
little bit of type A like I canconvince people to like the
bias Yeah. The bias
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That facts matter.
Yes. The left leaningbias, the facts matter
Speaker 1 (24:23):
. Correct .
Um, but I'm also gonna dosomething else to like tap
dance for a second of like,hey, we forgot dance. Uh , we,
and like , like I'm gonna blameyou. I didn't do like a one
important part in the overviewas we were talking, so let's
just like work it in now. Oh,yeah, yeah. And then I can like
(24:43):
maybe marinate on why factsmatter and have a better
answer. I
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Think it's also okay by the way to say this helps
inform us and then we havedifferent strategies. Correct ?
Like, I don't think there is ananswer. Yeah . It's not a true
, yeah . So ,
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Um, so we talked about like the overview and
like all the indicators andstuff we looked at, but we
didn't do the, like, ta-da . Sothe ta-da , uh, for the sixth
year in a row, the US receiveda failing grade. We only had
five states getting an A thisyear. Wow. Which is that it
(25:15):
feels like it, it kinda holdspretty steady, which is sad,
but like nobody backslid from,I mean, I don't think anybody
backslid from an egg too much,but we have 25 states that are
failing and 31 states that gota deer lower. So I think it's
just really important forpeople to understand kind of
the landscape we're talkingabout. There are only 16 states
(25:38):
that got a beer higher . Sowe're really failing when it
comes to sexual andreproductive health at this
state level. I mean, even atthe national level. Right? And
it's really important that weknow that it, it's not stopping
here, right? There is a clearlythis big storm looming on the
horizon that is the currentadministration that things are
(25:59):
probably gonna get worse. We'vealready seen these proposed
humongous cuts to Medicaid thatwould be absolutely
devastating. We've also justheard rumors this week of
slashing HIV funding at in , inthe States. So, you know, there
is this storm loo looming andit's not gonna stop there. We
know we are all prepared formore attacks on sexual and
(26:20):
reproductive health. So justwith all of that in , in
context of like where we areright now, and I do think it is
really important, even as we doseem to horrifically live in
this like facts don't matterworld, which is wild, that it
is important that the peoplewho care about the facts are
armed with the facts. So maybeI'm not gonna convince people,
(26:44):
right? But April in Oregonreads the report card and finds
things and talks to 'em amongher friends and she can
convince some of her friendsthat like, Hey, there are these
ways that Oregon can be betteror mm-hmm some of
my friends from back home,maybe they see like, Ooh , look
at all these ways Wisconsin isfailing. We can push and talks
(27:07):
to their friends about it. So II do kind of feel that like big
picture facts and like comingfrom like a big NGO maybe
you're right. Like I , I thinkI might not change people's
minds, but people then that Iam arming with the facts can
help educate the people aroundthem. I mean that's kind of why
(27:29):
I do the podcast, right? Isthat yeah , I can help give
people the tools they need tohave conversations with their
friends and their community sothat they are prepared to, if
this comes up in conversation,they can correct people if they
are comfortable, they can seesomeone is mentioning their
kids taking sex ed and they canbe like, oh , did you know that
(27:51):
like Wisconsin doesn't mandatesex ed and that your kids are
probably getting abstinenceonly? Like, I I think that is
really important. Is that likepersonal level where you can
really, I feel facts can mattermore. And I'm sure that's not
complete, but
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Just because the opposition doesn't think facts
matter doesn't mean facts don'tmatter. Correct. Like, and I I
do think one of the questionsright, is, is will a fact
convince someone who isembedded in ideology that is
unfactual? Correct? But how arewe actually also making sure
that we are embedded infact-based learning and
fact-based change, right? Sothat we don't become like we
(28:34):
have ideologies too, which arelike pro-human rights, right?
But like, so how do we makesure that we're centered and
that what what we're trying tofind as solutions is spent
centered in the facts. And thatthe way we talk about this,
then we might think aroundnarratives and values that we
can bring to people. Like weshare common values, like we
said earlier. Like, we allwanna keep our kids safe. Yeah.
(28:55):
That's why I make sure thatthey know about sex ed, right?
That we can talk in values, butwe are rooted in facts. Like
why does it matter that sex edisn't fact-based? It matters
because rates of unintendedpregnancy go up. It matters
because rates of cervicalcancer go up. It matters
because in the long term itinfect people's ability to move
(29:15):
, um, between classes, right?
So that's the reason we careabout that. And therefore then
we make strategies about that.
'cause we are based in fact,yeah, I didn't, I didn't think
you could naturally solve.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And like facts doesn't mean that like you need
to know all the things, right?
You don't need to knoweverything. But if a
conversation comes up aroundsex ed and someone's worried
about like the informationtheir kids are getting, I know
that I could be like, Hey, ifyou wanna learn more about what
good sex ed looks like, Zikahas some really great
(29:46):
resources. Advocates for Youthhas really great resources.
They have a great video seriesfor young people called a Maze
and a Maze Junior . Like greattools. I don't need to know all
those answers, but I know thatI can point them to these
organizations where they canget the good answers. And so
that is a useful tool.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah. We trust those organizations because we know
they're based in fact andlearning, right? Yeah . Yeah.
No, it was, you know, it's atough overhaul question. How do
we deal with this moment intime where facts don't matter?
But I, I do think it's, theyactually do matter and they
still matter to us. And if,like how do we make sure then
it's making, it's shaping our,our understanding. Sue , we've
talked a little bit about whatyou hope comes from this
(30:29):
report. We've talked about whywe still base our work. In
fact, even though we areincreasingly seeing , you know,
American discourse move awayfrom fact-based discourse or
abandon it completely in somecases , uh, we've talked about
what it means for states to getrid of good grades but still
have places to grow. We'vetalked about what it means for
states to have failing gradesand still be able to show
(30:51):
places we can build fromprogress. What is it that your
audience can do with thisinformation first that there is
a report card and then alsowhatever they find and show in
the report card, like you're,you're waving your magic wand
to your amazing podcastlistener who's listening right
now. And after they get up donewith this podcast, they do
(31:12):
what?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I want them to go to report cards , repro fight
back.com and play around on theinteractive site, right? I
think find out how your stateis doing, see where the gaps
are, and then once you see thatand see where your state has,
where they can grow andimprove, find ways that you can
(31:35):
get involved to make thatchange. If it's calling your
local lawmakers and tellingthem, Hey, our state doesn't
expand Medicaid, that'sbonkers. We need to make sure
that everybody who could becovered under Medicaid is
covered right now . Or, Hey, Ibelieve in comprehensive sex
ed. Why doesn't our state havecomprehensive sex ed? Why don't
(31:59):
we make sure it's medicallyaccurate? Or teaching about
consent or healthyrelationships. Like these are
core skills that young peopleneed to learn. And so I think
there's like a lot of nuggetswhere you can push your state
lawmakers on and showing themthat people care, that people
want to see these improvementsmade. Mm-hmm .
(32:20):
Tell your friends if , youknow, I'm in the group where I
have lots of friends with kids,so like to make sure that you
are advocating for the best sexed. And like I said, it varies
state by state, but even schooldistrict by school district. So
we don't get it to that levelthat is too granular for us.
But like it gives you anotherplace to dig in to like, one,
(32:41):
make sure your state ismandating it right ? And to
make sure that your localschool district is teaching it.
Like it's definitely worthkeeping an eye on those , uh,
school board things, right? Sexed comes up a lot banning books
or talking about trans studentsor things like that. Like those
are just really good places tokeep an eye on. And just
(33:02):
remember that like policy,there's national level policy
that is impacting access tosexual and reproductive health.
There's local state level , butthere's also local local. So
just finding where you can plugin and get involved mm-hmm
. And then theother thing that I think is
really important, and I reallywant people to take away from
(33:23):
this whole report card is youcan care about one or the more
of the issues like reallypassionately, but we need to
talk about all of themtogether. We need to make sure
that people are having accessto all of this, right? If you
don't get good sex educationearly, you have a hard time
(33:44):
making healthy decisions laterin your life. You can't access
care if you can't afford it. Ifyou don't know that service
exists, you can't access careif stays are putting up
restrictions to block you fromaccessing it. All of these
interrelate and intertwine. Andit's really important and it's
really important to rememberthe thing. The other thing I
(34:04):
always point out is noteverybody's gonna feel this
equally. Unfortunately, thosewho are already marginalized
are gonna be the ones who feelall of these restrictions, the
most cruelly. And so when weare talking about this, we need
to make sure that we arespeaking up for black people
and indigenous people, otherpeople of color, those with
(34:27):
disabilities, those with lowincomes, young people, the
LGBTQ plus community, and thosewith multiple intersections of
those identities because thoseare the ones who are gonna be
the most impacted by all ofthese restrictions.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah. I mean, and this, this is so related to the
conversation we just had onfacts, right? Which is one of
the reasons we have to seethese things together and talk
about them together is not toexhaust us or say you have to
care about one thing more thanyou care about it, but because
it actually arms us with theway to look for the right
solution, right? Like it ,again, you're not, you don't
(35:01):
have to be as passionate aboutX as you I are about Y right?
But like we, we're not gonnafight for the right solutions
if we are not based one, infact, which is what this report
card is reporting out, which isthe facts. And then two, in
understanding the reality andthe fact that these things all
work together. And so we , wehave to understand that to
build our strategies to fightfor the things we do care about
(35:22):
or care the most about. One ofthe things I think is most
exciting about the report card,and I'm so grateful for your
work on it, Jenny , is, youknow, folks may have noticed
that we are in a, what I'llcall Bananagrams time
, just a really, reallyexistential time for the United
States in which our entirenational identity seems to be
(35:46):
on the edge of a knife. Andthere's really huge existential
questions going on about who weare as people, who we are as a
country to ourselves, what typeof country we are, what does
democracy look like, or will itlook like or will it look, will
it be? And also like how we'reshowing up in the world on this
global stage. And the assaultsthat are coming not just on
(36:08):
rights and laws, but on, likethe very idea of rationality
itself are just sooverwhelming. And I , I can't
imagine that any single one ofthe people who's listening to
this right now needs thatexplained to them. Like, we are
all feeling this like in ourphysical bodies. Um, and having
to like get up in the morningand still somehow operate in
capitalism or whatever it is ,you know, you have to do every
(36:30):
day. And this report card is areminder that like in a time
where I think it's so naturalto feel very, very powerless
that actually we have a greatdeal of power and we have the
ability to understand complexquestions and to get to and
understand the facts and likeuse this website as a way to
(36:52):
find out things about yourstate, what's cooking, what's
not cooking, what needs to beaddressed, and then to take
that information and do so manythings about it on so many
levels, right? Whatever makesthe most sense for you and your
community and the things thatare important to you or what's
firing off in your state orlocal community like this. This
(37:13):
report card reminds us that weare very, very powerful
actually. And that's one of thereasons that this current
government is coming andattacking all of our rights,
right? Is because we arepowerful. They wouldn't do it
if , if these rights didn'tmatter. So I do think this is
actually a very hopeful thing,even if you're looking at your
state report card and orDistrict Columbia and shout out
to the 51st state. Yes , thankyou Denny for that inclusion ,
(37:35):
um, that if you'relooking at your state report
card and it is a, you know,it's a failing grade that is
good now, you know, like nowyou know, and you have that
power and you can think aboutthe ways to talk about these
issues and then think aboutwhat to do next. And like, you
are not alone in this andyou're not alone in this. Not
only because you can see otherstates that have higher grades,
(37:55):
have done that work and havehad to put in the same exact
work that you're gonna have todo right now and that you're
doing right now, but alsoyou're like not alone in your
state and people are fightingto make that happen. And so you
can take this information andnow like do something with it
as opposed to like anotherpiece of good or bad news. Like
it's not good news to get an Aplus in California, and it's
not bad news to get an F minusin Florida. It is the basis of
(38:17):
the reality from which you haveto fight. And now you can take
that and go and like, make thedifference where your community
needs that difference made andwhere you need that difference
made in your life. And like yousaid, Jenny , like there's,
there's so many places we canreach out as individuals
across, like doing Googlesearch is gonna be real helpful
for you and , and your state.
But like every state has anabortion fund. Every state has
(38:38):
an L-G-B-T-Q-I rightsorganization or solidarity
organization. Like every statehas people working on these
issues. And like, now's yourchance to like join them and,
and fight forward for thethings we know matter . So
yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And I think the battle cry right now is really
your reproductive health. Yoursexual and reproductive health
should not depend on where youlive and it really does right
now. But on top of that, itdoesn't just depend on where
you live, it depends on whatresources you have and mm-hmm
. That's a realtragedy. Like your ability to
access your sexual reproductivehealth should not depend on
(39:11):
your, on how much money youhave or what you Yeah , you can
what, you know, like we need tomake sure that everybody,
everybody has access to fullreproductive freedom. They have
the ability to make those same, uh, choices around their
sexual health and have thefreedom to access all the care
(39:32):
that they need , uh, withoutthe state interfering.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah. And with the state enabling, right? Yeah .
The state's obligation is toenable. Yeah. Well thank you
for this report card and thisincredible work that helps us
do that and helps us in thatfight. Thank you for joining me
on this your podcast ReproFight Back. Um , for
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Thanks Tara,
Speaker 2 (39:52):
For more information, can you remind
people where they should go tofind the report card and to
start finding out what's goingon in their state and how to
get involved?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yes. So if you go to report card.re pros fight
back.com , it will take youdirectly to our microsite where
you can learn all of theinformation. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Jenny , thank you so much. Thank you to your
incredible community aroundrepo's, fight back and all the
work and everybody keep strongand keep the faith.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Okay, y'all, I hope you enjoyed my , uh, terrorist
interview with me, not myinterview. Uh, I had so much
fun doing it. Tara, thank youso much for agreeing to host
and ask me all the questionsabout the report card. As
always, I had such a wonderfultime talking to you. It was the
best. Thank you, thank you,thank you. And I will see
(40:39):
everybody else next week. Ifyou have any questions,
comments, or topics you wouldlike us to cover, always feel
free to shoot me an email. Youcan reach me at jen jn , NI
e@reprofightback.com , or youcan find us on social media.
We're at Repro Fight Back onFacebook and Twitter or re Pros
FB on Instagram. If you loveour podcast and wanna make sure
(41:01):
more people find it, take thetime to rate and review us on
your favorite podcast platform.
Or if you wanna make sure tosupport the podcast, you can
also donate on ourwebsite@reprofightback.com.
Thanks all .
Welcome to Repro Fight Back a podcast on all
things related to sexual andreproductive health rights and
justice. Hi. Re pros. How'severybody doing? I'm your host
Jenny Wetter , and my pronounsare she her. So y'all , I'm
recording this just aftergetting a haircut and color.
And I had a while before, sincemy last one, so my hair had
(00:26):
like really grown out. And somy hairs last and I were
talking, we decided , we'relooking at pictures for
inspiration and decided to gosuper short, which I know I
have a pixie already. But like,we went really short and
decided that, you know what, ifwe're gonna do super short and
cut, we can go super bold incolor. Y'all, we went real
(00:49):
bright red. It is, it'sgorgeous. It , but it was like
such a change that it wasreally shocking. Um, it took a
minute to grow on me and like
little worried sitting watchingme in the chair. 'cause I was
like, it took a minute for my,for me to adjust to such a big
color change. But it looksreally great. And I got outside
(01:12):
in the sun and it was like sucha vibrant, bright red. It's
just stunning. So, thank youLeah . It looks beautiful. I
love it. And I'm so happy tohave my super short pixie
cutback because it really hadgotten long and out of control
and , uh, I need to not letthat happen again because it
was, it was bad. It was bad.
Y'all, I think I'm just gonnastop there because we're doing
(01:36):
something a little differenttoday. I'm the one being
interviewed. So with that,let's just throw it over to
Tara.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Hello. Podcast listeners. I bet this was not
the voice you were expecting.
Hello, my name is Tara Demantand my pronouns is she , her
and I am not Jenny Wetter , thehost of Repos Fight Back . I am
, um, however, a gratefulcolleague of Jennys . I work at
C International USA and I'mreally excited to welcome our
guests to the podcast today.
Who is Jenny Wetter ? Jenny ,can you introduce yourself and
(02:07):
your pronouns and a little bitabout why you're here today on
that side of the microphone?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah. Oh, first Tara, thank you so much for
doing this. I am so gratefulthat you were able to jump in
and play Host today. It'salways so much fun and also
weird to be on the other sideof the microphone. But anyhow ,
um, I am Jenny Wetter . Um , mypronouns are she her. I am
coming here not as the host ofre Pros Fight Back , but as the
(02:33):
director of the re Pros FightBack Initiative at the
Population Institute. And I amhere to talk about our brand
new 50 state report card thatjust got released last week
when you all hear this.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So one taste of your own medicine being on the other
side,
are so excited to talk aboutthese things , um, and to , to
have those questions asked. Soreally grateful to talk to you
around these things. Not just'cause 'cause of the broad work
that we all do, butparticularly as like a human
rights practitioner. The ideaof reproductive rights in the
(03:05):
United States is of a hugeconcern, obviously, to the
human rights community and tohopefully all communities as
we're seeing what's happening.
So this report card launchedlast week, if you're listening.
Um, but on , um, Wednesday,March 19th, tell us a little
bit about the scope of this.
When, when we say this likereport card launch , what is it
that actually came out into theworld?
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, so we, we started doing this report card.
This is our 13th annual reportcard. And we wanted to start
doing it to fit into that gapof people were familiar of some
of the egregious attacks thatwere happening at the state
level. Like if something inparticular was bad was kicking
off, like for example, inTexas. But if you had
(03:49):
conversations with them, theywere less familiar of what the
laws were around sexualreproductive health in their
own states, you'd be like, didyou know your state doesn't
mandate sex ed? And they had noidea. So we wanted to make sure
to kind of fill that gap togive people a tool to see how
their state compared to otherstates, which is why we started
(04:09):
doing the 50 state report card.
And I also think it helps fillsome of that gap of so much of
our work falls into silos,right? Mm-hmm
So this person talks aboutbirth control. This person does
abortion work, this personworks on Medicaid, but all of
these are integral to people'ssexual and reproductive health
(04:31):
and rights. And we need to makesure that we are talking about
them as one thing that they allwork together or , and are
interrelated. And not just,this is really bad abortion
stuff that is happening. But wealso need to talk about, well,
that state also doesn't mandatesex ed mm-hmm
They also have theseaffordability issues. We wanna
make sure that people aregetting that whole big picture
(04:55):
and not just the like separatesingle silo attacks.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
What are the things that you're covering in the
report card?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah. So again, like I said, it's kind of a big
thing. So I think the best wayto think about it is in
categories. We have three maincategories of indicators we
look at. We look at prevention,and that's things like sex
education. Um, sex educationvaries widely from state to
state, honestly, from schooldistrict to school district.
Mm-hmm
(05:24):
are getting a comprehensivemedically accurate sex
education. I've talked about myexperience before going to
Catholic school and having sexed from a nun. So like I know
the, like longer term harms ofgetting inaccurate sex
education and not comprehensivesex education and how that sets
you up for failure late inlater in life. The next thing
(05:47):
we look at under prevention isaccess to emergency
contraception in the emergencyroom. Making sure that ERs are
not only telling , uh, sexualassault victims, it's an
option, but also giving it tothem if they want it. And then
the last prevention thing welook at is making sure that
minors are able to consent tobirth control. And that's
really important to make surethat young people are able to
(06:09):
access care. The next categorywe have is affordability,
access doesn't matter if youcan't afford the services,
right? So it is a reallyimportant category. And three
of the indicators we look atunder that relate to Medicaid.
Medicaid is a really bigprogram covering so many
things, but it's reallyimportant to remember it also
(06:30):
plays a big role and sexual andreproductive health. It covers
family planning and othersexual and reproductive health
services. Right now, more than40% of births in the country
are covered by Medicaid andmaternal healthcare . So we
wanna make sure that stateshave expanded their Medicaid
program under the AffordableCare Act. We wanna make that
states have expanded theirfamily planning coverage beyond
(06:53):
what the base coverage is. Alot of states do that by
expanding based on income. Um,and the last one, and honestly
y'all, this is the one liketrue good news story in this
report card is Medicaid decidedthat states could expand their
maternal health coverage forone year postpartum. And at a
time when we have a maternalmortality crisis, particularly
(07:16):
for black women, this is huge.
Yeah. And I thought this wasgonna play out like Medicaid
expansion under the AffordableCare Act, where lots of states
were just gonna refuse to doit. But as of right now, only
Wisconsin and Arkansas have notmade that one year expansion.
Like honestly a truly good newsstory, which again, we all need
(07:39):
that bright ray of hopesomewhere, right?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So what's the last quarter? Youhave prevention, you have
affordability. What's the lastbucket?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Access. So we look at abortion restrictions like
gestational bans, making surethat states don't have waiting
periods, which make people cometo the clinic twice. Again,
making sure that young peopleare able to access care. So
making sure that there aren'tparental consent and notice
laws. We also wanna make surestates don't have trap laws or
extra regulations on medicationabortion. So who can provide a
(08:10):
medication abortion or makingsure that people come in
person. We wanna make sure thatstates aren't doing that. And
then the last thing we look atis making sure that states
aren't banning best practicegender affirming care. Um , we
wanna make sure that youngpeople are able to access that
lifesaving and life changinghealthcare .
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Let's dive in a little bit. You've talked a
number of these categories andthe way that young people
particularly are implicated. Soaround prevention, you know,
two of your three categories,sex ed and then access for
minors. And then when you'retalking around access, can
young people access , uh,abortion related care? Can they
access other types of care ?
Can they access genderaffirming care? Where do you
(08:51):
see young people showing up inthis type of report card? Do
you see differences in the waythat a state treats younger
people, young people or minors?
So let's say, you know, 17 oryounger as opposed to the way
it treats people the agemajority adults, you know, 18
or over?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah. I , I think, you know, parental consent laws
are like really widespread inso many states. Um, I can't
remember the number off the topof my head. Sorry y'all. But it
is a shocking number of stateshave parental consent laws for
abortion. And, and so I thinkthat is like one place. I think
this comes down to people stillfeel like a way like icky or
(09:33):
uncomfortable talking aboutyoung people and sex. And, and
that's not fair to youngpeople, right? They need to be
able to have the tools theyneed to make healthy decisions
about their lives. And they'reset up to fail often from the
beginning by not giving themcomprehensive sex ed. And, and
this is one of those thingsthat I will say continues to
(09:53):
surprise me every year of themixture of states that don't
mandate sex ed. Right? It's notjust the ones you think mm-hmm
failing, they do require sex edor some forms of sex ed. But
then you have a state likeMassachusetts or Colorado that
doesn't mandate any at all. So,you know, you can't just assume
(10:15):
you know, what states are doingfor young people. And I think
that is again, the core, theplace to start is looking at
sex ed and then looking ifminors are allowed to consent
to accessing services. Andagain, that's one of those that
you do see some like stateswhere you wouldn't expect
allowing it and some statesthat you wouldn't expect not
(10:37):
allowing it.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah. I mean I think you , you get to where there's
just an ickiness people feelaround the question of youth
and sexuality and Yeah, forsure. And then also like a , a
hard line in the sand for whogets rights when Right. At 18.
And
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Like the parents should be able to have that
say, and like, I , I think wesee that around, you know,
pushback. We get around nothaving parental consent laws
or, and this is a place whereyou can see the anti rights
movement really trying to peelpeople off, right? Mm-hmm
(11:12):
start chipping away at access.
So that's really where youstarted to see abortion bans
coming in with putting inparental consent laws. And then
once you started there, well ,well , there were other ways
you could chip away at, atabortion laws and now you're
seeing that play out again withgender affirming care, where
you see people targeting minorsaccess to gender affirming
(11:32):
care. Because again, there'sthat like discomfort and people
don't have the familiaritywith, with , um, trans people
in general, but particularlyyoung trans people. And so it's
easier, doesn't feel like theright word, but it's like that
way to start chipping in andalso knowing it doesn't stop
there.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right? I mean, there's two things you're sort
of talking around. We can talkmore topics, but I'm really
interested in this because Ithink one is, you're exactly
right, like miners are a muchquote unquote easier target to
take away rights , right?
They're a much easier target toreduce these rights because
people across politicalspectrums will have a different
reaction Yeah . Than they willto rights being taken away for
(12:15):
adults, right? Legal adults andparticularly around sex and
sexuality, right? So thisbecomes a way in which anti
rights actors can begin to takeaway rights. Like they're taken
away from young people, but asa way to test balloon how
they're going to take awayrights overall. So how are they
chipping away at our sexualreproductive rights in general?
Well, let's start with parentalconsent laws because you can
(12:38):
get across the, you know, aisleum , agreement on these things.
I , the other, and I , I thinkit's, it's a real challenge in
that the way that rights,language and law in general,
right, is, is based on the agemajority at 18 or wherever your
state , um, the government ofbeing the , the federal
government , um, or stategovernment sets the age of
adulthood, right ? Andtherefore, before that exists
(13:00):
this sort of legal space of avariety of types of
understandings of rights. Andthat's, you know , true in the
human rights space as well,particularly under sexual
reproductive health and rights.
That like there are differencesin maturity between adults and
minors, but that young peoplestill have rights and there is
a moving maturation, right?
(13:21):
This understanding that like,it may be different for a
five-year-old than it is a12-year-old, but it's not, it's
not that then the answer iscompletely opposite of what an
18-year-old has for rights. AndI , I think that becomes a
trickier spot, but also a placethat we see the beginnings of
rights being taken away andlike the rights that are taken
away when you are young willdramatically impact the rest of
(13:42):
your life. Right? And youtalked about sex ed. So I
actually wanna zoom in on sexed. You and I have talked on
this podcast before on ourdifferent experiences or
similar experiences in verydifferent states around sex
education. So I noticed that myhome state, the golden state of
California received an Acategory and I'm always,
there's such good work goingon, protecting rights at the ,
(14:03):
um, state level and a lot oflaw and policy. And I grew up
in California and went toschool, a public school in
California and receivedabstinence only education at my
public high school inCalifornia. So , and that ,
that was clearly not this yearof our Lord 2025 to , I mean ,
I hope not like some or twoyears ago being 30 years ago.
(14:25):
But like, but like the lawsaround how education gets
rolled out is very different.
So what does it mean to give astate like California an A
grade when the reality is, andI know this for a fact at the
high school that I went to,they still don't teach sex ed.
They teach abstinence only. Andthere's obviously a huge
religious bent to that, but sowhat does it mean to give a
(14:46):
really good grade where there'sgoing to be actual real
failures?
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah. I think this is so important that the
utility of having a statewidereport card of seeing how your
state faires when it comes toother states really hides
things, right? Like accessreally depends on where you
live. And that can be like thestate you live, it can be the
county you live within thatstate. Mm-hmm
(15:12):
You may have a state likeCalifornia where there are
pockets where you are furtheraway from clinics. You don't
have that same type of access.
Or even just thinking through ,uh, Tara and I both being from
like small towns of, okay, sominors can consent to birth
control, there wasn't a plannedparenthood that I could get to
(15:33):
real easy. So if I had gotten aprescription, the pharmacist
knows my parents, right? Like,there's not like that, I mean,
I'm sure , I'm sure some, a lotof pharmacists will hold that
confidentiality, but like in asmall town, things tend to
maybe work a little different.
And like, so there are thingsthat that, that definitely hide
(15:54):
within that. So California isdoing great compared to other
states, but that is not to saythere is not work to be done. I
mean, again, this is like thelosing sense of time. I think
it was last year had on , uh,someone from access abortion
fund in California, Jessica NeyGill on to talk about where
(16:15):
California needed to change andall of the ways that there are
things that need to be done toincrease access in California.
So that is the downside ofdoing a state by state grade is
it does hide some of thosethings or kind of even the
reverse of like having like badstates. But there are pockets
within that state where theyare doing good things. You hear
(16:36):
about cities in Texas doingreally trying to do things to
help increase access mm-hmm
developing a fund that's gonnahelp people travel outta state
to get care. So there arethings that inevitably will get
hidden within a state grade,but I still think it is a
really useful tool for peopleto see how their state is
(16:58):
comparing to other states. And,and one thing we did this year
that is different, we have aninteractive tool on our website
where the , you can see thereport card and that's report
card dot repro fight back.com .
And so you'll see the statemaps, you can see how your
state overall compares to otherstates, but then there are also
toggles on the side. And so youcan go sex ed, how does our
(17:21):
state compare when it comes tosex ed? And then the map will
change and you can see how itrelates on all of the
indicators. Um , which is alsojust fascinating to take some
time and play around with tosee where your state is
succeeding. 'cause no statelike got zeros, right? There
are states who are doing realbad, but like nobody got zero.
So there are places wherestates are doing things well,
(17:43):
and I think that is also usefulto acknowledge. Um, we can't
just have everybody failing,although we try
Speaker 2 (17:50):
. I I do think that's a , Imean this gets into one of the
questions I have, right? Islike, what is the point of
scorecards and how do we usethat? And I think you spoke
very well to, especially withthis new interactive site,
which is very cool that you cango in and like actually break
down what this grade actuallymeans, right? As opposed to
(18:11):
like, what it doesn't meanCalifornia is like a plus plus
no work needs to be done.
Correct . Every single personhas access to all these rights,
right? Like that is notactually what this means,
you within mom policy. So inthat way it's a , it is a , a
baseline setter, right? This isaround the laws and policies
and like what is the baselinethat you need? Then you cannot
(18:34):
make these things happenwithout law and policy. Um, or
if you can ring us up and tellus how, because we, if we don't
know the go
Speaker 1 (18:42):
100 , right? Like Yeah .
Speaker 2 (18:42):
No one gets opposing . Yeah. And like, so what is ,
how do we then, what does thistell the folks who are in
California versus the folks sayin Louisiana, which had a very
different score? What is itthat you hope, first of all,
who do you hope is seeing this?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah. And I think that's a two part thing, right?
So we do wanna policy makers inthose states to see ones who
want to make their state havegood sexual and reproductive
health and rights access to seewhere they're failing compared
to other states or wherethey're succeeding. Mm-hmm .
Um, I, I think that is reallyhelpful to see, be able to
(19:18):
compare hopefully in a good wayto like, make things better.
And then I also think it's areally important tool for
advocates to use to be like,there are ways that we can be
pushing our state to do betterin a state like California.
Like right now California has aviability ban , so that's a
place that they're losingpoints . There's like some
(19:39):
little things around sex ed aswell. So there are, everyone
has things that can be done inLouisiana. I think it is
finding groups on the groundwho are doing that work, right?
We're not an on the groundgroup doing that work, but
there are lots of abortionfunds and other reproductive
justice groups on the ground toconnect with, to find ways to
(20:03):
push state policy makers tomake the changes you need to
make sure that you are giventhe tools to have fulfilled
sexual and reproductive health.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
When you think about the tools for advocates, I
mean, one of the things I knowwe all hope is that folks who
are listening to this podcasttake this resource and are able
to make changes for the commongood in their state. Right? And
the way that like the changeyou make in your state can and
will have a knock on effect forbetter or for worse. Like, and
this is like when states makebad moves, other states will
(20:35):
follow when state meets goodmoves, other states will
follow. Yeah. Um, and I thinkcan offer some hope in the
sense that like, our country isreally going in the wrong
direction in overall in termsof, of human rights and a
particularly sexualreproductive rights. But we can
see opportunities where like,actually government is working
for good and trying to predictrights and here's what it could
(20:55):
look like and here's what itlooks like in your state. I do
think it's really interesting.
Like no, no state receives azero. Like there's no zero, no,
there are two states to receive15, which is not mocho . Right?
And that , um, that's Floridaand Alabama. And, but even
there you can point to here arethings that actually get 15
points these things. Maybethat's somewhere to build on
(21:16):
that. Like folks can look atthat and say like, we seem to
have agreement at least onthis. How can we build on that?
And then also to show like whatdoes it mean to the people of
Florida that like if theyhappened to live in another
state, they would have moresexual and reproductive rights.
And how can that also be agalvanizing tool for a state to
understand, like, this is aboutwhat impacts your people and
(21:39):
the way that like you'reactually not measuring up not
just to some theoretic ideal,but to what other states are
able to achieve. And you're notbetter or worse than that other
state. There's no reason youcouldn't do that. Right. That,
that's like , these are likepolitical choices. So I'm
really, I I'm really excitedabout that possibility. I do
wanna raise to you a veryexistential question and
(22:00):
thinking about as you and I are, are is like, okay, now what
do we do with this? And how dowe make this real and , and ,
and matter, which is thequestion of someone's listening
to this podcast and is like,this is such great information,
this is so good. Also, it looksincredible. It's very well
designed. Oh , think so . It'seasy to navigate and the fact
sheets are easy to use, whichis really key, right? But that
oftentimes people in theopposition to human rights
(22:23):
often locked down into veryideological positions as
opposed to a difference ofopinion based on facts. That
doesn't mean every singleperson who doesn't support, you
know, a sex ed is somehow fullyoppositional to facts. And we
have seen that increasinglyfolks that have become
(22:43):
entrenched in ideologicalopposition are not just having
a difference of opinion. Likewe all kind of want the same
thing, which is safety for ourchildren and ourselves and our
loved ones, and we disagreeabout how to get there. Right?
Instead what we're seeing ishere's facts and people being
like, no, they're not
Right? So this is a question oflike, why do facts still
(23:04):
matter? When what do we do withthe fact that facts don't
actually help in persuadingothers in a lot of, in a lot of
discourse in the United States.
And increasingly as , you know,we've talked about before, that
increasingly actually facts dothe opposite thing is that they
actually hurt because theycause people to entrench. They
(23:25):
don't help them, they cause 'emto entrench. So if someone
hears a fact that disagreeswith what they, they think,
they then entrench further intothat non-factual opinion that
they have based on not facts.
Certainly. Right. So
very complicated question. Ifyou could just solve this for
America really quickly, that'dbe awesome. Great,
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Tara, thanks for like, not giving me like a
really hard question,
Speaker 2 (23:48):
But like what's the report card in mind? Yeah , I
mean this I think is the realquestion of our time as
advocates. It's like, what doesit mean to take this report
card into a conversation wherefacts decreasingly matter? Why
do we spend our time stilltalking about facts in our line
of work? Oh
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah. That's hard.
And, and one because I , I doinherently believe that that
facts matter and that's likemaybe the like, you know, a
little bit of type A like I canconvince people to like the
bias Yeah. The bias
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That facts matter.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Um, but I'm also gonna dosomething else to like tap
dance for a second of like,hey, we forgot dance. Uh , we,
and like , like I'm gonna blameyou. I didn't do like a one
important part in the overviewas we were talking, so let's
just like work it in now. Oh,yeah, yeah. And then I can like
(24:43):
maybe marinate on why factsmatter and have a better
answer. I
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Think it's also okay by the way to say this helps
inform us and then we havedifferent strategies. Correct ?
Like, I don't think there is ananswer. Yeah . It's not a true
, yeah . So ,
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Um, so we talked about like the overview and
like all the indicators andstuff we looked at, but we
didn't do the, like, ta-da . Sothe ta-da , uh, for the sixth
year in a row, the US receiveda failing grade. We only had
five states getting an A thisyear. Wow. Which is that it
(25:15):
feels like it, it kinda holdspretty steady, which is sad,
but like nobody backslid from,I mean, I don't think anybody
backslid from an egg too much,but we have 25 states that are
failing and 31 states that gota deer lower. So I think it's
just really important forpeople to understand kind of
the landscape we're talkingabout. There are only 16 states
(25:38):
that got a beer higher . Sowe're really failing when it
comes to sexual andreproductive health at this
state level. I mean, even atthe national level. Right? And
it's really important that weknow that it, it's not stopping
here, right? There is a clearlythis big storm looming on the
horizon that is the currentadministration that things are
(25:59):
probably gonna get worse. We'vealready seen these proposed
humongous cuts to Medicaid thatwould be absolutely
devastating. We've also justheard rumors this week of
slashing HIV funding at in , inthe States. So, you know, there
is this storm loo looming andit's not gonna stop there. We
know we are all prepared formore attacks on sexual and
(26:20):
reproductive health. So justwith all of that in , in
context of like where we areright now, and I do think it is
really important, even as we doseem to horrifically live in
this like facts don't matterworld, which is wild, that it
is important that the peoplewho care about the facts are
armed with the facts. So maybeI'm not gonna convince people,
(26:44):
right? But April in Oregonreads the report card and finds
things and talks to 'em amongher friends and she can
convince some of her friendsthat like, Hey, there are these
ways that Oregon can be betteror mm-hmm
my friends from back home,maybe they see like, Ooh , look
at all these ways Wisconsin isfailing. We can push and talks
(27:07):
to their friends about it. So II do kind of feel that like big
picture facts and like comingfrom like a big NGO maybe
you're right. Like I , I thinkI might not change people's
minds, but people then that Iam arming with the facts can
help educate the people aroundthem. I mean that's kind of why
(27:29):
I do the podcast, right? Isthat yeah , I can help give
people the tools they need tohave conversations with their
friends and their community sothat they are prepared to, if
this comes up in conversation,they can correct people if they
are comfortable, they can seesomeone is mentioning their
kids taking sex ed and they canbe like, oh , did you know that
(27:51):
like Wisconsin doesn't mandatesex ed and that your kids are
probably getting abstinenceonly? Like, I I think that is
really important. Is that likepersonal level where you can
really, I feel facts can mattermore. And I'm sure that's not
complete, but
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Just because the opposition doesn't think facts
matter doesn't mean facts don'tmatter. Correct. Like, and I I
do think one of the questionsright, is, is will a fact
convince someone who isembedded in ideology that is
unfactual? Correct? But how arewe actually also making sure
that we are embedded infact-based learning and
fact-based change, right? Sothat we don't become like we
(28:34):
have ideologies too, which arelike pro-human rights, right?
But like, so how do we makesure that we're centered and
that what what we're trying tofind as solutions is spent
centered in the facts. And thatthe way we talk about this,
then we might think aroundnarratives and values that we
can bring to people. Like weshare common values, like we
said earlier. Like, we allwanna keep our kids safe. Yeah.
(28:55):
That's why I make sure thatthey know about sex ed, right?
That we can talk in values, butwe are rooted in facts. Like
why does it matter that sex edisn't fact-based? It matters
because rates of unintendedpregnancy go up. It matters
because rates of cervicalcancer go up. It matters
because in the long term itinfect people's ability to move
(29:15):
, um, between classes, right?
So that's the reason we careabout that. And therefore then
we make strategies about that.
'cause we are based in fact,yeah, I didn't, I didn't think
you could naturally solve.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And like facts doesn't mean that like you need
to know all the things, right?
You don't need to knoweverything. But if a
conversation comes up aroundsex ed and someone's worried
about like the informationtheir kids are getting, I know
that I could be like, Hey, ifyou wanna learn more about what
good sex ed looks like, Zikahas some really great
(29:46):
resources. Advocates for Youthhas really great resources.
They have a great video seriesfor young people called a Maze
and a Maze Junior . Like greattools. I don't need to know all
those answers, but I know thatI can point them to these
organizations where they canget the good answers. And so
that is a useful tool.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah. We trust those organizations because we know
they're based in fact andlearning, right? Yeah . Yeah.
No, it was, you know, it's atough overhaul question. How do
we deal with this moment intime where facts don't matter?
But I, I do think it's, theyactually do matter and they
still matter to us. And if,like how do we make sure then
it's making, it's shaping our,our understanding. Sue , we've
talked a little bit about whatyou hope comes from this
(30:29):
report. We've talked about whywe still base our work. In
fact, even though we areincreasingly seeing , you know,
American discourse move awayfrom fact-based discourse or
abandon it completely in somecases , uh, we've talked about
what it means for states to getrid of good grades but still
have places to grow. We'vetalked about what it means for
states to have failing gradesand still be able to show
(30:51):
places we can build fromprogress. What is it that your
audience can do with thisinformation first that there is
a report card and then alsowhatever they find and show in
the report card, like you're,you're waving your magic wand
to your amazing podcastlistener who's listening right
now. And after they get up donewith this podcast, they do
(31:12):
what?
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I want them to go to report cards , repro fight
back.com and play around on theinteractive site, right? I
think find out how your stateis doing, see where the gaps
are, and then once you see thatand see where your state has,
where they can grow andimprove, find ways that you can
(31:35):
get involved to make thatchange. If it's calling your
local lawmakers and tellingthem, Hey, our state doesn't
expand Medicaid, that'sbonkers. We need to make sure
that everybody who could becovered under Medicaid is
covered right now . Or, Hey, Ibelieve in comprehensive sex
ed. Why doesn't our state havecomprehensive sex ed? Why don't
(31:59):
we make sure it's medicallyaccurate? Or teaching about
consent or healthyrelationships. Like these are
core skills that young peopleneed to learn. And so I think
there's like a lot of nuggetswhere you can push your state
lawmakers on and showing themthat people care, that people
want to see these improvementsmade. Mm-hmm
(32:20):
Tell your friends if , youknow, I'm in the group where I
have lots of friends with kids,so like to make sure that you
are advocating for the best sexed. And like I said, it varies
state by state, but even schooldistrict by school district. So
we don't get it to that levelthat is too granular for us.
But like it gives you anotherplace to dig in to like, one,
(32:41):
make sure your state ismandating it right ? And to
make sure that your localschool district is teaching it.
Like it's definitely worthkeeping an eye on those , uh,
school board things, right? Sexed comes up a lot banning books
or talking about trans studentsor things like that. Like those
are just really good places tokeep an eye on. And just
(33:02):
remember that like policy,there's national level policy
that is impacting access tosexual and reproductive health.
There's local state level , butthere's also local local. So
just finding where you can plugin and get involved mm-hmm
really important, and I reallywant people to take away from
(33:23):
this whole report card is youcan care about one or the more
of the issues like reallypassionately, but we need to
talk about all of themtogether. We need to make sure
that people are having accessto all of this, right? If you
don't get good sex educationearly, you have a hard time
(33:44):
making healthy decisions laterin your life. You can't access
care if you can't afford it. Ifyou don't know that service
exists, you can't access careif stays are putting up
restrictions to block you fromaccessing it. All of these
interrelate and intertwine. Andit's really important and it's
really important to rememberthe thing. The other thing I
(34:04):
always point out is noteverybody's gonna feel this
equally. Unfortunately, thosewho are already marginalized
are gonna be the ones who feelall of these restrictions, the
most cruelly. And so when weare talking about this, we need
to make sure that we arespeaking up for black people
and indigenous people, otherpeople of color, those with
(34:27):
disabilities, those with lowincomes, young people, the
LGBTQ plus community, and thosewith multiple intersections of
those identities because thoseare the ones who are gonna be
the most impacted by all ofthese restrictions.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah. I mean, and this, this is so related to the
conversation we just had onfacts, right? Which is one of
the reasons we have to seethese things together and talk
about them together is not toexhaust us or say you have to
care about one thing more thanyou care about it, but because
it actually arms us with theway to look for the right
solution, right? Like it ,again, you're not, you don't
(35:01):
have to be as passionate aboutX as you I are about Y right?
But like we, we're not gonnafight for the right solutions
if we are not based one, infact, which is what this report
card is reporting out, which isthe facts. And then two, in
understanding the reality andthe fact that these things all
work together. And so we , wehave to understand that to
build our strategies to fightfor the things we do care about
(35:22):
or care the most about. One ofthe things I think is most
exciting about the report card,and I'm so grateful for your
work on it, Jenny , is, youknow, folks may have noticed
that we are in a, what I'llcall Bananagrams time
States in which our entirenational identity seems to be
(35:46):
on the edge of a knife. Andthere's really huge existential
questions going on about who weare as people, who we are as a
country to ourselves, what typeof country we are, what does
democracy look like, or will itlook like or will it look, will
it be? And also like how we'reshowing up in the world on this
global stage. And the assaultsthat are coming not just on
(36:08):
rights and laws, but on, likethe very idea of rationality
itself are just sooverwhelming. And I , I can't
imagine that any single one ofthe people who's listening to
this right now needs thatexplained to them. Like, we are
all feeling this like in ourphysical bodies. Um, and having
to like get up in the morningand still somehow operate in
capitalism or whatever it is ,you know, you have to do every
(36:30):
day. And this report card is areminder that like in a time
where I think it's so naturalto feel very, very powerless
that actually we have a greatdeal of power and we have the
ability to understand complexquestions and to get to and
understand the facts and likeuse this website as a way to
(36:52):
find out things about yourstate, what's cooking, what's
not cooking, what needs to beaddressed, and then to take
that information and do so manythings about it on so many
levels, right? Whatever makesthe most sense for you and your
community and the things thatare important to you or what's
firing off in your state orlocal community like this. This
(37:13):
report card reminds us that weare very, very powerful
actually. And that's one of thereasons that this current
government is coming andattacking all of our rights,
right? Is because we arepowerful. They wouldn't do it
if , if these rights didn'tmatter. So I do think this is
actually a very hopeful thing,even if you're looking at your
state report card and orDistrict Columbia and shout out
to the 51st state. Yes , thankyou Denny for that inclusion ,
(37:35):
um,
card and it is a, you know,it's a failing grade that is
good now, you know, like nowyou know, and you have that
power and you can think aboutthe ways to talk about these
issues and then think aboutwhat to do next. And like, you
are not alone in this andyou're not alone in this. Not
only because you can see otherstates that have higher grades,
(37:55):
have done that work and havehad to put in the same exact
work that you're gonna have todo right now and that you're
doing right now, but alsoyou're like not alone in your
state and people are fightingto make that happen. And so you
can take this information andnow like do something with it
as opposed to like anotherpiece of good or bad news. Like
it's not good news to get an Aplus in California, and it's
not bad news to get an F minusin Florida. It is the basis of
(38:17):
the reality from which you haveto fight. And now you can take
that and go and like, make thedifference where your community
needs that difference made andwhere you need that difference
made in your life. And like yousaid, Jenny , like there's,
there's so many places we canreach out as individuals
across, like doing Googlesearch is gonna be real helpful
for you and , and your state.
But like every state has anabortion fund. Every state has
(38:38):
an L-G-B-T-Q-I rightsorganization or solidarity
organization. Like every statehas people working on these
issues. And like, now's yourchance to like join them and,
and fight forward for thethings we know matter . So
yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
And I think the battle cry right now is really
your reproductive health. Yoursexual and reproductive health
should not depend on where youlive and it really does right
now. But on top of that, itdoesn't just depend on where
you live, it depends on whatresources you have and mm-hmm
access your sexual reproductivehealth should not depend on
(39:11):
your, on how much money youhave or what you Yeah , you can
what, you know, like we need tomake sure that everybody,
everybody has access to fullreproductive freedom. They have
the ability to make those same, uh, choices around their
sexual health and have thefreedom to access all the care
(39:32):
that they need , uh, withoutthe state interfering.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah. And with the state enabling, right? Yeah .
The state's obligation is toenable. Yeah. Well thank you
for this report card and thisincredible work that helps us
do that and helps us in thatfight. Thank you for joining me
on this your podcast ReproFight Back. Um , for
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Thanks Tara,
Speaker 2 (39:52):
For more information, can you remind
people where they should go tofind the report card and to
start finding out what's goingon in their state and how to
get involved?
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yes. So if you go to report card.re pros fight
back.com , it will take youdirectly to our microsite where
you can learn all of theinformation. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Jenny , thank you so much. Thank you to your
incredible community aroundrepo's, fight back and all the
work and everybody keep strongand keep the faith.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Okay, y'all, I hope you enjoyed my , uh, terrorist
interview with me, not myinterview. Uh, I had so much
fun doing it. Tara, thank youso much for agreeing to host
and ask me all the questionsabout the report card. As
always, I had such a wonderfultime talking to you. It was the
best. Thank you, thank you,thank you. And I will see
(40:39):
everybody else next week. Ifyou have any questions,
comments, or topics you wouldlike us to cover, always feel
free to shoot me an email. Youcan reach me at jen jn , NI
e@reprofightback.com , or youcan find us on social media.
We're at Repro Fight Back onFacebook and Twitter or re Pros
FB on Instagram. If you loveour podcast and wanna make sure
(41:01):
more people find it, take thetime to rate and review us on
your favorite podcast platform.
Or if you wanna make sure tosupport the podcast, you can
also donate on ourwebsite@reprofightback.com.
Thanks all .
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com