August 12, 2025 • 33 mins
Abortion clinics, their staff, and the patients seeking care often face instances of blockading, harassment, threats, and violence. This blockage of access to basic healthcare services resulted in the 1994 bipartisan passage of the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances (FACE) Act. Erin Matson, Co-Founder, President, and CEO of Reproaction, sits down to talk with us about the FACE Act and how the current Trump administration is attempting to disassemble its protection.
Upon his return to office, Trump pardoned 23 individuals convicted of FACE Act violations, while at the same time, the Department of Justice announced it would only in “extreme” circumstances enforce the FACE Act. Shortly thereafter, the Heritage Foundation released a white paper calling for the FACE Act’s repeal.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie (00:03):
Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things
related to sexual andreproductive health, rights, and
justice. [music intro] HeyrePROs, whenever anything is
happening in the courts,especially when it comes to
reproductive rights and socialjustice, I immediately turn to
the Boom! Lawyered podcast byRewire News Group to help me
(00:24):
understand what just happened,but also the greater impact.
Hosted by the amazing ImaniGandy and Jess Pieklo, Boom!
Lawyered brings us some humanityand humor to the law at a time
when we need it the most.
You can find Boom! Lawyered onApple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Hi rePROs.
(00:44):
How's everybody doing?
I'm your host, Jennie Wetter,and my pronouns are she/her.
So y'all, just so you know,this is going to be a little bit
of a longer intro and a littleheavy, but it seems like an
important time to take a momentand talk about what we are
seeing with the U.S.
(01:04):
eliminating USAID and cuttingoff the funding for the United
Nations Population Fund orUNFPA.
UNFPA just got a bunch of newdata on what it's meaning to
their programs that they sharedwith me, so I wanted to make
sure to share it with y'all.
But first, before we get there,let's start with the U.S.
government's decision to burnalmost $10 million worth of
(01:25):
contraception that is currentlybeing held in a warehouse in
Belgium.
There are IUDs, implants, birthcontrol pills, and other forms
of contraception that the U.S.
has already bought and paid forwith U.S.
tax dollars and that they wereintended to go to clinics in
Africa.
When DOGE suddenly froze all ofUSAID programs before shutting
(01:47):
the agency down, it meant thatthis contraception that was
already bought and paid for wasstuck in these warehouses.
Since the U.S.
government is not going to berestarting those programs, it
had to think about what to dowith the contraception.
UNFPA and MSI ReproductiveChoices stepped forward to try
to buy that contraception fromthe U.S.
(02:09):
government and redistribute itto where it needs to go.
I think there were other peoplewho have tried to buy this
contraception from them at nocost to the U.S.
government.
Instead, the U.S.
government has decided thatthey would rather spend $160,000
to burn the contraception thansell it to somebody who is going
to get it into the hands thatit needs to be in.
(02:29):
You know, this freezing of U.S.
global assistance, thecontraception that is currently
in the warehouses, it is reallymessing up with the global
supply chain, particularlyaround contraception.
We know that this loss ofcontraception is going to have
an impact on the lives of womenand girls around the world.
There's data that shows this$10 million in contraception
(02:51):
that is in just this onewarehouse would have been enough
to prevent 362,000 unintendedpregnancies, 110,000 unsafe
abortions and prevented 718maternal deaths.
When you talk about waste,fraud, and abuse, which is
supposedly what DOGE was goingafter, I cannot think of a
(03:12):
clearer example of waste, fraud,and abuse than burning
contraception that we alreadypaid for, that other groups were
willing to buy from the U.S.
government to ensure it got tothe people who need them.
It is horrifying.
Unfortunately, we can't stopthere.
The U.S.
also cut off all funding forUNFPA and UNFPA has shared with
(03:35):
me how that is impacting theirwork.
Huge, huge thank you to RachelMoynihan.
Thank you, Rachel, for sendingthat my way so that I can make
sure to share it with myaudience.
So, I did trim down this list alittle bit because it was quite
long, but I also wanted to keepmost of it intact because I
wanted you to have a realunderstanding of the scope of
the impact that we are talkingabout from this administration's
(03:57):
decisions.
So, take a deep breath becausethe numbers of lives that are
being impacted is prettyshocking, but we can't look
away.
So, it is impacting safe spacesand hospitals.
The funding cuts are forcingclosures and reductions in
critical facilities and programsand dismantling vital
(04:19):
humanitarian infrastructure,particularly for refugees and
women and girls incrisis-affected settings.
So, that means in Palestine,UNFPA safe spaces for women and
girls cannot be established, 40of them.
Medicine cannot be provided to80 health facilities and
postpartum kits for 20,000mothers and newborns are not
(04:41):
going to be able to bedistributed.
In Chad, that means 19 healthfacilities and two mobile
clinics have closed due to U.S.
funding cuts, leaving 45,784women and girls without access
to life-saving sexual andreproductive health services.
We're seeing a particularlyadverse impact on refugee
(05:02):
populations.
In Pakistan, UNFPA programssupporting health services in 62
health facilities located inrefugee villages have been
terminated, directly impacting1.7 million people, among whom
1.2 million are Afghan refugees.
In Turkey, 60,000 Syrianrefugees have been left without
(05:24):
access to urgent and essentialservices, as UNFPA cuts down its
response by 60%.
In the Central AfricanRepublic, approximately 70,000
women and girls in refugee campsand host communities are no
longer receiving life-savingsexual and reproductive health
services due to clinic closures.
Beyond the impacts on UNFPA'sdirect programming, the loss of
(05:50):
U.S.
funding is also dismantlingcritical health and protection
infrastructure acrosshumanitarian settings.
In Haiti, where the U.S.
was the country's primaryhumanitarian aid donor, the loss
of U.S.
support means severe disruptionto case management, referrals,
psychosocial support, and otherprotective services for many of
(06:11):
the 1.2 million in need of GBVassistance this year.
It is estimated that throughoutSudan, broader implications of
U.S.
funding cuts may result inaround 5 million people,
including 1.2 million women ofreproductive age, ending up
without access to healthservices, as the cuts have
impacted 57% of the healthcluster, including support to
(06:36):
335 health facilities across 15states.
Effects are being felt at everystage of supply chain
operations with delays andpreventing things from getting
where it needs to be.
In South Sudan, dignity kits—they're essential packages
distributed to women and girlsin emergency settings to provide
(06:57):
basic hygiene and personal careitems— those dignity kit
supplies are depleted with thesupply pipeline expected to dry
up without additional support.
In the DRC, almost all local,national, and international
health agencies currently lackthe financial resources to
maintain family planningservices, particularly in areas
(07:19):
affected by armed conflict, withthe majority of implementing
partners reporting total ornear-total contraceptive
stockouts.
Also important, the rescissionspackage that the U.S.
passed also clawed back fundingfor the UNFPA-UNICEF joint
program on female genitalmutilation.
In the past, U.S.
(07:40):
contributions have helped reachover 13 million women and young
people and have saved more than80,000 girls from FGM.
This is, again, going to be adevastating loss for people's
access to services.
Another important place that isbeing impacted is undermining
efforts for GBV response.
(08:01):
In Cameroon's northwest andsouthwest regions, UNFPA women
and girls safe spaces wereprematurely handed over to local
communities without sufficientresources for preparation,
leading to closures of safespaces in some locations, as
well as the termination of skillbuilding and financial literacy
activities.
Yeah, so just like so manyareas that are being impacted.
(08:25):
And like I said, this is justpart of the very long list that
UNFPA sent me on the ways thatthey are feeling the impacts of
the loss of U.S.
support.
I know that was a lot, y'all.
So again, let's all take a deepbreath.
There is a lot of lives thatare being impacted and it is
shocking and we cannot look awayabout what is being done in our
(08:49):
name.
Okay.
I would like to say that thisweek's, turn to this week's
interview, because it's going tobe a lighter topic, but sorry,
y'all.
We're actually going to betalking about clinic violence,
so not a lighter topic.
But I am talking to thefantastic Erin Matson at
Reproaction, so you know it'sgoing to be a great
(09:09):
conversation, even though,again, it will be a heavier
topic, talking about clinicviolence and attacks on the
FACE Act.
So with that, let's turn to myinterview with Erin.
Hi, Erin.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
Erin (09:23):
Hey Jennie, thanks so much for having me.
Jennie (09:24):
Before we get started, would you like to take a second
and introduce yourself andinclude your pronouns?
Erin (09:29):
Oh, yeah.
Thank you so much.
Hello, I'm Erin Matson.
I use she/ her pronouns, and Iam co-founder and president and
CEO of Reproaction, a group thatleads bold action to increase
access to abortion and advancereproductive justice.
Jennie (09:44):
I am always excited to have you on, but I am extra
excited to have you on todaybecause I know you are such an
expert in this area, and it'ssomething I've not actually
talked about on the podcastbefore, which is the FACE Act.
But I think before we do that,maybe we need to take a little
bit of a step back and talkabout, before we talk about what
it is (10:06):
why it was necessary?
Why did we even pass somethingcalled the FACE Act?
Erin (10:11):
Yeah, no, thank you for that.
So, here's the problem.
Anti-abortion or abortionopponents have long resorted to
violence, harassment, andbullying to stop people from
accessing the care they need.
And they're horrifying, Jennie.
I don't know.
Now, I know a lot of yourlisteners are very seasoned
(10:34):
people in the reproductivehealth rights and justice
movements, and they know whatgoes on outside of clinics.
There's a lot of people, andthere may be some people
listening to this podcast whodon't know what abortion
opponents do.
And so, there are routinelyissues of blockading access to
(10:55):
clinics.
So take a trip way down memorylane.
Operation Rescue, a group thatwas founded by a man named
Randall Terry, did theseenormous events outside of Dr.
George Tiller's clinic inWichita, Kansas, where they
brought people into the streetsto blockade the clinic.
(11:15):
There were open calls toviolence.
It is no accident that aprovider that was targeted so
frequently with these protestsultimately was assassinated and
killed, because this is a formof encouraging terrorism against
abortion providers.
So, there is a long history ofthis.
(11:39):
In 1994, following a number ofassassinations of abortion
providers, the FACE Act, theFreedom of Access to Clinic
Entrances Act, was passed withbipartisan support.
To say, okay.
Jennie (11:57):
That's so wild to think about now, right?
Erin (11:59):
Right, right.
And it is wild to think aboutif you look at the politicians.
But if you look at actualpeople, it's actually not that
wild to think about.
Because, you know, we're seeingpeople on all sides of the
political spectrum voting forabortion on the ballot, for
instance.
Right?
Like the politicians don'treflect it, but the people do.
Yeah, for sure.
(12:20):
So, yeah, I would say that wasthe primary impetus, was the
blockades of the clinics andthen several high-profile
assassinations of abortion
Jennie (12:32):
Okay, so this new administration is...
doing their best to underminethe FACE Act.
So, what are some of the thingsthat have been happening
recently?
So, you know, it has alwaysbeen kind of one of those things
that is more implemented or alittle less implemented on
whoever is in office, but thisseems to have taken, like, a
huge new step in the way it'sbeing treated.
Erin (12:55):
Yes, you are correct on that.
This is a dramaticallydifferent dialogue than was
taking place a year ago.
currently on the FACE Act.
So, let's take a step back.
Before Trump was elected,anti-abortion activists and
(13:15):
leaders and groups, includingmore so-called mainstream
leaders and groups, latched onto a call from the fringe to
call on Trump to pardon 23individuals who who had been
convicted of FACE Actviolations.
And I want to be very clearwith you, Jennie, about what
these people were doing.
(13:36):
These people were physicallyblockading clinic entrances,
slamming doors, screaming,yelling, shoving, in some cases,
physically injuring people inthe clinic.
So really terrorizing people.
These were violent attacks.
(13:56):
And, well, on the campaigntrail, about a year ago last
summer, Trump pledged to pardonthem.
There were calls for him to doso on day one.
We were watching real closelythinking, you know, is he going
to do this at the same time thathe does anticipated January 6th
(14:17):
pardons?
And by the way, heavy overlapin aims as well as some overlap
in definite overlap andstrategy.
And we do know that there weresome anti-abortion people who
were there on January 6th,right?
Who were part of that largercrowd outside the Capitol.
So pretty quickly after Trumpcame into office, he pardoned 23
(14:40):
violent individuals andimmediately released them into
the public.
Several other things happenedat the same, right around the
same time in short order.
The Department of Justiceannounced that it would no
longer enforce the FACE Act,except in what it called, quote,
(15:01):
"extreme," unquote,circumstances.
At the same time, there hasbeen a bubbling narrative for
some time, and it's adisinformation narrative, that
the FACE Act, so they claim,'there's no problem with
anti-abortion violence, thatthere's nothing happening
(15:22):
outside of clinics.
We don't need to worry aboutthat.
The real problem is peacefulreproductive health rights and
justice activists, and they areattacking the anti-abortion
pregnancy centers,' which is nothappening at any significant
scale in terms of actual thingsthat have happened to brick and
mortar facilities.
Regardless, that's anotherpiece of the puzzle.
(15:45):
And so, they're trying toweaponize it on behalf of the
anti-abortion pregnancy center.
So, we've even seen somemembers of the Department of
Justice openly calling foranti-abortion pregnancy centers
to submit complaints and theywant the FBI to investigate
them.
And then this is thewackadoodle thing that did not
(16:09):
bubble up over a long period oftime.
Just all of a sudden, whizzingout like a boomerang in the sky
out of nowhere comes this whitepaper from the Heritage
Foundation that says, repeal theFACE Act.
And I remember looking at thatand going, oh my gosh, this just
changed the tenor of what'shappening immensely.
(16:32):
So in quick short order,Representative Chip Roy,
introduced a bill to repeal theFACE Act.
There have now been twohearings that have happened on
the House side, as well as amarkup session.
Whether it goes to the fullfloor remains to be seen.
But what I want to underscoreis the change that has happened
is this idea of repealing theFACE Act, which no one said
(17:00):
before this year, has suddenlybecome very normalized.
And in addition, with Trumppardoning these violent FACE Act
violators in the Department ofJustice saying we're not going
to prosecute here, it appears toencourage open season on
abortion providers.
Jennie (17:17):
Yeah, I think it's really important to talk about
what is happening outside ofclinics because the
anti-abortion folks just try toalways portray it and the media
often repeats like it's thelittle old lady praying on the
sidewalk with her rosary and,like, I remember that being the
narrative when buffer zones werein front of the Supreme Court.
(17:38):
Meanwhile, they have theirgiant buffer zone which is,
like, a whole other thing but Ijust remember that being the
narrative that is likecontinually pushed, that it's
just these little people doingsidewalk counseling and just,
you know, trying to convincepeople sweetly of their
decisions.
And that is not what isactually happening.
Erin (18:00):
No, not even close.
We're talking firebombs, deaththreats on the extreme end of
the spectrum.
You're also talking about, I'veseen this firsthand, you know,
sometimes clinics willphysically build walls and
they'll just build scaffoldingand stand on top of the walls
and then use their megaphone toscream in, screaming,
(18:23):
terrorizing entire communities.
You know, you see things,groups like Operation Save
America will have what they call"national events," where they
basically bring in people fromaround the country to siege, not
just all the clinics in acommunity, but the entire
community.
And I remember one year when Iwas in North Carolina engaged in
(18:43):
clinic defense with this, a momcame up to us and she's like,
'I'm not even pro-choice, but Iorganized a petition against
these guys because I was tiredof seeing their ugly banners at
Walmart.
I didn't want my kids to seethat.' So, I mean, the point is
they are extremely aggressive,blockading access to these
clinics, shouting people down.
(19:05):
Another memory that I have fromclinic escorting.
This was outside a clinic wherethey were literally spraying
ketchup on the snow to try tomake it look like blood,
screaming out all of theseepithets.
They would target, they seemedto especially target the people
of color.
They were screaming at men withtheir partners, you know, man
(19:27):
up, stop her.
And I remember one woman, itwas raining at the time and, you
know, we had the umbrella upand she looks at me and she's
like, are they here for me?
I mean, she was justincredulous, as she should have
been, that there was this entirespectacle with people shouting
(19:47):
epithets and acting just violentand crazy over her own private
business.
So it's- the narrative that isportrayed, that is false.
That is not what's happening.
And that is not what the FACEAct addresses.
The FACE Act is directly aboutpeople using physical force or
(20:08):
the threat of physical force orphysical obstruction to
intentionally injure or blockpeople from accessing care.
Jennie (20:18):
I can't imagine trying to go and access healthcare and
have somebody yelling at meabout my choices.
That is just a wild thing toaccept as normal or should be
allowed to happen.
Erin (20:32):
Correct.
And it is the face of theanti-abortion cause.
And it's also one of the worstfaces of the anti-abortion cause
because people don't like this.
As I said, I've had people comeup to me before and say, I'm
not even pro-choice and I hatethis and I want to stop this.
So it's significant.
And what we've also seen isthat, you know, now that
(20:56):
abortion care...
this is one of the reasons, bythe way, Jennie, that medication
abortion drives abortionopponents crazy because they
can't control it.
What are they supposed to do?
Go inside every single person'smedicine cabinet and stage a
protest outside their house?
Scale-wise, it doesn't workout.
So, we've also seen these samesorts of tactics.
(21:18):
In some cases, they'll extendit forward to the pharmacies.
And they're like, I've seenthis before, where the organized
groups that do the clinicblockades are like, okay, we're
going to go target thisparticular pharmacy.
Nobody wants that when they'regoing to buy their Band-Aids and
Rolaids.
Get out of there, guys.
Right?
Jennie (21:36):
Yeah.
So you just harass everybodygoing in?
Because like, what are youdoing?
Erin (21:40):
Right, right.
It's just pure hate.
Jennie (21:43):
You know, I think one of the things that I've also been
just thinking about is, what weare seeing with the FACE Act in
place is still really bad andthat we still clearly need the
FACE Act.
But thinking through, like, ifthey actually do manage to
repeal it, it is going tocontinue to embolden these
(22:04):
anti-abortion activists who havealready been emboldened by
being able to overturn Roe.
And it's scary to think aboutwhat that future could
look like.
Erin (22:13):
Oh, it's horrifying.
And we're already in anenvironment where vigilante
violence is being encouraged ona variety of levels:
anti-abortion, anti-democracy.
You know, I need to, in goodconscience and actually as a
person who grew up in Minnesotaand is still psychically and
emotionally-
Was just thinking about it.
(22:34):
-identifies as a Minnesotan, even if I don't live
there anymore.
You know, we saw politicalassassinations happen there from
an anti-abortion zealot, whohad a hit list of a number of
pro-reproductive freedomlegislators and advocates.
And if you go and look, I mean,that's the broader connection
(22:57):
that we need to draw.
A lot of times people will saylike, oh yeah, it's just these
lone wolves who are out theredoing this.
And it's like, no.
What we actually have and sawin Minnesota, for example, there
were many, many different statelegislators who made extremely
violent comments about theircolleagues in attributing, you
(23:18):
know, making extremely falsestatements, inflammatory
statements about abortion.
You had the Minnesota Right toLife chapter putting out videos
of pro-reproductive freedomstate lawmakers that literally
had target crosshairs over theirfaces while they are yelling at
them, right?
So, it's real bad out there.
(23:39):
I mean, and it's beingencouraged on so many levels.
So, it is something we shouldall be frightened about.
Jennie (23:47):
Yeah, I feel like that's something that has like driven
some of like the internalconversations, even just like
with the work we do.
Like, yes, I am not at aclinic, but, you know, I have a
podcast where I talk about thesethings and like starting to
think through things that weneed to do to ensure our staff
is safe.
And it's so wild to be in thatplace where those are the
(24:07):
conversations we need to have.
And I feel like the last coupleof years, those conversations
have really ramped up in ouroffice.
Erin (24:15):
And they need to.
And, you know, it's criticalthat we need to assure the
safety of people.
And unfortunately, we are notin safe times.
And that is not just for thosein the reproductive health
rights and justice community.
I mean, we're literally in ascenario where activists are
getting plucked off the streetby masked agents and sent to
(24:35):
other countries with no dueprocess.
Jennie (24:39):
Yeah.
It's important to remember allof these connections because
they are all related andlike...[shudders]
Erin (24:44):
Yikes.
Jennie (24:46):
Yeah.
It is just so much happeningright now and so many threads
and things to keep track of.
It's hard to not feeloverwhelmed and also remembering
that that part is what they arelooking for.
They are trying to overwhelm usso that we are not
taking action.
Erin (25:03):
Correct.
And to come at this fromanother way, because that's
absolutely correct.
Authoritarianism is designed tooverwhelm.
The anti-abortion cause haslong bombarded with every single
piece of spaghetti they can getto stick to the wall.
When we are talking aboutanti-abortion violence, people
(25:24):
need to understand that it isbroadly unpopular, not just with
reproductive health rights andjustice supporters.
It is broadly unpopular withthe middle.
It is unpopular with theanti-abortion base with a
notable part of this.
So on another hand, this doesseem like a very stupid fight
(25:47):
that they've chosen to pickbecause anti-abortion violence
is like their worst faceforward.
And they've decided to makethat their face forward of let's
promote violence from the top,from the White House, from the
Congress.
So, I do think this is anopportunity for us to really go
(26:08):
on offense and demand safe,respectful access to health
care.
Jennie (26:15):
I really like that idea of like turning it on its head.
Like, this is, like, the beyondthe bare minimum to ask for to
keep the FACE Act in place andto enforce this already
proposed.
Right.
Like, that feels like the bareminimum of what we should be
expecting.
And you're right.
People do not like to see thosekinds of violence.
(26:36):
And I think along that line is.
It's hard to get some of thatday to day because it is so
often happening for it to getthe attention so that the
general public is less aware ofsome of that violence that is
happening unless it's in theirspecific community and they are
actually seeing it.
Otherwise, I think a lot ofpeople are not as familiar that
(26:56):
it is like still happening atthe level it's happening.
Erin (27:00):
It is happening.
And there is, again, like Trumpand the Department of Justice
appear to be declaring openseason on abortion providers.
But I also want to say this,that the abortion care
community, the people whoprovide abortion care, put
tremendous thought, effort,intention, resources, smarts,
(27:21):
and security into ensuring thatpatients are able to receive
health care when they need it,where they need it in their
communities.
So the point of this is not toscare people and say, if you
need an abortion, you better gohide.
You can go.
But we need to be aware thatthis is something where we do
(27:44):
need laws to offer theseprotections.
And we do need those laws to beenforced.
And we do need to demand thataccountability from our
legislators.
But it is safe to go get anabortion.
Someone should feel safe, safeand supported going to get it.
There are so many cool peoplein the abortion care community
who just do amazing things.
(28:04):
And, you know, there's bothvisible security and a lot of
security that's been put intoplace that's not visible.
And I know so many in thiscommunity put real effort and
intention to still make placesfeel warm, supportive, like the
places people can go to get theimportant care they need.
Jennie (28:22):
That's such an important point.
Thank you for pulling thatforward.
Erin (28:25):
Yeah, I just didn't want to be like, and it's all bad and
don't go because that's notthat's not the case.
Abortion providers are amazingindividuals who are doing the
work to make it safe andcomfortable.
And the government has a numberof bad actors right now that
need accountability.
Jennie (28:42):
Okay, so I guess I'm starting to think of like, what
are next steps?
Like, what are some of the nextthings we should be thinking
about or we should be trying todo?
Erin (28:51):
That's a great question.
So, there are so many ways thatpeople can engage in helping to
support access to safe abortioncare.
And so first of all, on themost local level of all, there
are often clinic escort groupsthat people can get involved in.
And this can be both.
I've done it before.
(29:12):
It can be really fun andaffirming, but it's a great way
to provide direct support andpractical support to people if
they may be facing, you know,people who are shouting at them,
because what you can do is youcan actually walk with someone,
accompany them.
You can help block someonewho's trying to interfere with
them, so they don't have tolisten.
'You can look at me and you canlisten to me.
(29:32):
You don't have to listen tothem.' So that's a practical
thing that people can do.
Another thing, absolutely,contact your member of Congress
and let them know how you feelabout this and tell them to get
loud.
Tell them to get loud.
So the last thing that I'll sayis, yes, we know both from the
pardons of the FACE Actviolators, the pardons of the
(29:55):
January Sixers, the fact thatTrump encouraged January Six,
the fact that he encouragesviolence, that he has no problem
with this.
But I will say this, this is avery anti-abortion president,
but he doesn't want to be seenas anti-abortion.
And so there actually is aleverage point there.
I'm not saying that he'ssomeone that can be counted on,
(30:16):
far from it.
But I am saying puttingpressure on him about being an
anti-abortion leader is not thepublicity he wants.
So, I think it behooves us totalk about this a lot.
Jennie (30:31):
Yeah.
He doesn't want to be seen asthe bad guy in some of these
areas, right?
It does make a difference.
And I think it's made adifference already in some of
the things that maybe weexpected to happen that haven't
happened.
But again, not saying hope andthere's good things, but...
less bad is still good at themoment.
Erin (30:50):
Oh, absolutely.
And we have seen how he hasdone so many things this term
without hesitation.
And so it's actually ratherremarkable that a number of
things on the anti-abortion wishlist have not happened.
And that, I think, speaks tothe fear that that exists at the
(31:11):
top of the White House.
I don't think it existselsewhere in the administration.
In fact, he's brought in anumber of anti-abortion people
within the administration, so weneed to be worried about that.
But at the top, he does notwant to be seen as the person
who's bringing down the hammer.
Jennie (31:25):
Yeah, Erin, thank you so much.
I love hearing ideas to getinvolved locally, being a clinic
escort.
There are always great ways toengage in your local community
because that is where the fightis happening right now.
Erin (31:38):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me, Jennie.
Jennie (31:40):
Okay, y'all.
Thank you for tuning in.
I hope you enjoyed myconversation with Erin so that
you are now all up to date onwhat is happening around the
FACE Act.
And with that, I will seeeverybody next week.
Hey rePROs, if you're cravingmore reproductive justice
podcasts to geek out on, andyou're curious how abortion and
(32:00):
reproductive health play outbeyond the U.S., then let me
introduce you to Aborsh.
Aborsh, like a cute abortion,is a Canadian podcast that
explores what choice reallymeans and looks like and why
that answer is different fordifferent people.
Now in its second season, hostRachel Cairns talks to people
who've had abortions at alldifferent stages of pregnancy
(32:21):
and phases of life, connectingtheir stories to the bigger
picture.
Yeah, it's a lot, but somehowAborsh makes space for all of
it.
It's that rare show thatdoesn't just point out the
problems.
It reminds us that collectivelywe have power and that change
(32:44):
is possible.
Plus, it's smart, candid, andeven funny.
Because sometimes we need tolaugh while riding the hot mess
express that is society rightnow.
So, if you want to feelinformed, inspired, and a little
less alone, check out Aborshwherever you're listening
right now.
Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things
related to sexual andreproductive health, rights, and
justice. [music intro] HeyrePROs, whenever anything is
happening in the courts,especially when it comes to
reproductive rights and socialjustice, I immediately turn to
the Boom! Lawyered podcast byRewire News Group to help me
(00:24):
understand what just happened,but also the greater impact.
Hosted by the amazing ImaniGandy and Jess Pieklo, Boom!
Lawyered brings us some humanityand humor to the law at a time
when we need it the most.
You can find Boom! Lawyered onApple, Spotify, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Hi rePROs.
(00:44):
How's everybody doing?
I'm your host, Jennie Wetter,and my pronouns are she/her.
So y'all, just so you know,this is going to be a little bit
of a longer intro and a littleheavy, but it seems like an
important time to take a momentand talk about what we are
seeing with the U.S.
(01:04):
eliminating USAID and cuttingoff the funding for the United
Nations Population Fund orUNFPA.
UNFPA just got a bunch of newdata on what it's meaning to
their programs that they sharedwith me, so I wanted to make
sure to share it with y'all.
But first, before we get there,let's start with the U.S.
government's decision to burnalmost $10 million worth of
(01:25):
contraception that is currentlybeing held in a warehouse in
Belgium.
There are IUDs, implants, birthcontrol pills, and other forms
of contraception that the U.S.
has already bought and paid forwith U.S.
tax dollars and that they wereintended to go to clinics in
Africa.
When DOGE suddenly froze all ofUSAID programs before shutting
(01:47):
the agency down, it meant thatthis contraception that was
already bought and paid for wasstuck in these warehouses.
Since the U.S.
government is not going to berestarting those programs, it
had to think about what to dowith the contraception.
UNFPA and MSI ReproductiveChoices stepped forward to try
to buy that contraception fromthe U.S.
(02:09):
government and redistribute itto where it needs to go.
I think there were other peoplewho have tried to buy this
contraception from them at nocost to the U.S.
government.
Instead, the U.S.
government has decided thatthey would rather spend $160,000
to burn the contraception thansell it to somebody who is going
to get it into the hands thatit needs to be in.
(02:29):
You know, this freezing of U.S.
global assistance, thecontraception that is currently
in the warehouses, it is reallymessing up with the global
supply chain, particularlyaround contraception.
We know that this loss ofcontraception is going to have
an impact on the lives of womenand girls around the world.
There's data that shows this$10 million in contraception
(02:51):
that is in just this onewarehouse would have been enough
to prevent 362,000 unintendedpregnancies, 110,000 unsafe
abortions and prevented 718maternal deaths.
When you talk about waste,fraud, and abuse, which is
supposedly what DOGE was goingafter, I cannot think of a
(03:12):
clearer example of waste, fraud,and abuse than burning
contraception that we alreadypaid for, that other groups were
willing to buy from the U.S.
government to ensure it got tothe people who need them.
It is horrifying.
Unfortunately, we can't stopthere.
The U.S.
also cut off all funding forUNFPA and UNFPA has shared with
(03:35):
me how that is impacting theirwork.
Huge, huge thank you to RachelMoynihan.
Thank you, Rachel, for sendingthat my way so that I can make
sure to share it with myaudience.
So, I did trim down this list alittle bit because it was quite
long, but I also wanted to keepmost of it intact because I
wanted you to have a realunderstanding of the scope of
the impact that we are talkingabout from this administration's
(03:57):
decisions.
So, take a deep breath becausethe numbers of lives that are
being impacted is prettyshocking, but we can't look
away.
So, it is impacting safe spacesand hospitals.
The funding cuts are forcingclosures and reductions in
critical facilities and programsand dismantling vital
(04:19):
humanitarian infrastructure,particularly for refugees and
women and girls incrisis-affected settings.
So, that means in Palestine,UNFPA safe spaces for women and
girls cannot be established, 40of them.
Medicine cannot be provided to80 health facilities and
postpartum kits for 20,000mothers and newborns are not
(04:41):
going to be able to bedistributed.
In Chad, that means 19 healthfacilities and two mobile
clinics have closed due to U.S.
funding cuts, leaving 45,784women and girls without access
to life-saving sexual andreproductive health services.
We're seeing a particularlyadverse impact on refugee
(05:02):
populations.
In Pakistan, UNFPA programssupporting health services in 62
health facilities located inrefugee villages have been
terminated, directly impacting1.7 million people, among whom
1.2 million are Afghan refugees.
In Turkey, 60,000 Syrianrefugees have been left without
(05:24):
access to urgent and essentialservices, as UNFPA cuts down its
response by 60%.
In the Central AfricanRepublic, approximately 70,000
women and girls in refugee campsand host communities are no
longer receiving life-savingsexual and reproductive health
services due to clinic closures.
Beyond the impacts on UNFPA'sdirect programming, the loss of
(05:50):
U.S.
funding is also dismantlingcritical health and protection
infrastructure acrosshumanitarian settings.
In Haiti, where the U.S.
was the country's primaryhumanitarian aid donor, the loss
of U.S.
support means severe disruptionto case management, referrals,
psychosocial support, and otherprotective services for many of
(06:11):
the 1.2 million in need of GBVassistance this year.
It is estimated that throughoutSudan, broader implications of
U.S.
funding cuts may result inaround 5 million people,
including 1.2 million women ofreproductive age, ending up
without access to healthservices, as the cuts have
impacted 57% of the healthcluster, including support to
(06:36):
335 health facilities across 15states.
Effects are being felt at everystage of supply chain
operations with delays andpreventing things from getting
where it needs to be.
In South Sudan, dignity kits—they're essential packages
distributed to women and girlsin emergency settings to provide
(06:57):
basic hygiene and personal careitems— those dignity kit
supplies are depleted with thesupply pipeline expected to dry
up without additional support.
In the DRC, almost all local,national, and international
health agencies currently lackthe financial resources to
maintain family planningservices, particularly in areas
(07:19):
affected by armed conflict, withthe majority of implementing
partners reporting total ornear-total contraceptive
stockouts.
Also important, the rescissionspackage that the U.S.
passed also clawed back fundingfor the UNFPA-UNICEF joint
program on female genitalmutilation.
In the past, U.S.
(07:40):
contributions have helped reachover 13 million women and young
people and have saved more than80,000 girls from FGM.
This is, again, going to be adevastating loss for people's
access to services.
Another important place that isbeing impacted is undermining
efforts for GBV response.
(08:01):
In Cameroon's northwest andsouthwest regions, UNFPA women
and girls safe spaces wereprematurely handed over to local
communities without sufficientresources for preparation,
leading to closures of safespaces in some locations, as
well as the termination of skillbuilding and financial literacy
activities.
Yeah, so just like so manyareas that are being impacted.
(08:25):
And like I said, this is justpart of the very long list that
UNFPA sent me on the ways thatthey are feeling the impacts of
the loss of U.S.
support.
I know that was a lot, y'all.
So again, let's all take a deepbreath.
There is a lot of lives thatare being impacted and it is
shocking and we cannot look awayabout what is being done in our
(08:49):
name.
Okay.
I would like to say that thisweek's, turn to this week's
interview, because it's going tobe a lighter topic, but sorry,
y'all.
We're actually going to betalking about clinic violence,
so not a lighter topic.
But I am talking to thefantastic Erin Matson at
Reproaction, so you know it'sgoing to be a great
(09:09):
conversation, even though,again, it will be a heavier
topic, talking about clinicviolence and attacks on the
FACE Act.
So with that, let's turn to myinterview with Erin.
Hi, Erin.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
Erin (09:23):
Hey Jennie, thanks so much for having me.
Jennie (09:24):
Before we get started, would you like to take a second
and introduce yourself andinclude your pronouns?
Erin (09:29):
Oh, yeah.
Thank you so much.
Hello, I'm Erin Matson.
I use she/ her pronouns, and Iam co-founder and president and
CEO of Reproaction, a group thatleads bold action to increase
access to abortion and advancereproductive justice.
Jennie (09:44):
I am always excited to have you on, but I am extra
excited to have you on todaybecause I know you are such an
expert in this area, and it'ssomething I've not actually
talked about on the podcastbefore, which is the FACE Act.
But I think before we do that,maybe we need to take a little
bit of a step back and talkabout, before we talk about what
it is (10:06):
why it was necessary?
Why did we even pass somethingcalled the FACE Act?
Erin (10:11):
Yeah, no, thank you for that.
So, here's the problem.
Anti-abortion or abortionopponents have long resorted to
violence, harassment, andbullying to stop people from
accessing the care they need.
And they're horrifying, Jennie.
I don't know.
Now, I know a lot of yourlisteners are very seasoned
(10:34):
people in the reproductivehealth rights and justice
movements, and they know whatgoes on outside of clinics.
There's a lot of people, andthere may be some people
listening to this podcast whodon't know what abortion
opponents do.
And so, there are routinelyissues of blockading access to
(10:55):
clinics.
So take a trip way down memorylane.
Operation Rescue, a group thatwas founded by a man named
Randall Terry, did theseenormous events outside of Dr.
George Tiller's clinic inWichita, Kansas, where they
brought people into the streetsto blockade the clinic.
(11:15):
There were open calls toviolence.
It is no accident that aprovider that was targeted so
frequently with these protestsultimately was assassinated and
killed, because this is a formof encouraging terrorism against
abortion providers.
So, there is a long history ofthis.
(11:39):
In 1994, following a number ofassassinations of abortion
providers, the FACE Act, theFreedom of Access to Clinic
Entrances Act, was passed withbipartisan support.
To say, okay.
Jennie (11:57):
That's so wild to think about now, right?
Erin (11:59):
Right, right.
And it is wild to think aboutif you look at the politicians.
But if you look at actualpeople, it's actually not that
wild to think about.
Because, you know, we're seeingpeople on all sides of the
political spectrum voting forabortion on the ballot, for
instance.
Right?
Like the politicians don'treflect it, but the people do.
Yeah, for sure.
(12:20):
So, yeah, I would say that wasthe primary impetus, was the
blockades of the clinics andthen several high-profile
assassinations of abortion
Jennie (12:32):
Okay, so this new administration is...
doing their best to underminethe FACE Act.
So, what are some of the thingsthat have been happening
recently?
So, you know, it has alwaysbeen kind of one of those things
that is more implemented or alittle less implemented on
whoever is in office, but thisseems to have taken, like, a
huge new step in the way it'sbeing treated.
Erin (12:55):
Yes, you are correct on that.
This is a dramaticallydifferent dialogue than was
taking place a year ago.
currently on the FACE Act.
So, let's take a step back.
Before Trump was elected,anti-abortion activists and
(13:15):
leaders and groups, includingmore so-called mainstream
leaders and groups, latched onto a call from the fringe to
call on Trump to pardon 23individuals who who had been
convicted of FACE Actviolations.
And I want to be very clearwith you, Jennie, about what
these people were doing.
(13:36):
These people were physicallyblockading clinic entrances,
slamming doors, screaming,yelling, shoving, in some cases,
physically injuring people inthe clinic.
So really terrorizing people.
These were violent attacks.
(13:56):
And, well, on the campaigntrail, about a year ago last
summer, Trump pledged to pardonthem.
There were calls for him to doso on day one.
We were watching real closelythinking, you know, is he going
to do this at the same time thathe does anticipated January 6th
(14:17):
pardons?
And by the way, heavy overlapin aims as well as some overlap
in definite overlap andstrategy.
And we do know that there weresome anti-abortion people who
were there on January 6th,right?
Who were part of that largercrowd outside the Capitol.
So pretty quickly after Trumpcame into office, he pardoned 23
(14:40):
violent individuals andimmediately released them into
the public.
Several other things happenedat the same, right around the
same time in short order.
The Department of Justiceannounced that it would no
longer enforce the FACE Act,except in what it called, quote,
(15:01):
"extreme," unquote,circumstances.
At the same time, there hasbeen a bubbling narrative for
some time, and it's adisinformation narrative, that
the FACE Act, so they claim,'there's no problem with
anti-abortion violence, thatthere's nothing happening
(15:22):
outside of clinics.
We don't need to worry aboutthat.
The real problem is peacefulreproductive health rights and
justice activists, and they areattacking the anti-abortion
pregnancy centers,' which is nothappening at any significant
scale in terms of actual thingsthat have happened to brick and
mortar facilities.
Regardless, that's anotherpiece of the puzzle.
(15:45):
And so, they're trying toweaponize it on behalf of the
anti-abortion pregnancy center.
So, we've even seen somemembers of the Department of
Justice openly calling foranti-abortion pregnancy centers
to submit complaints and theywant the FBI to investigate
them.
And then this is thewackadoodle thing that did not
(16:09):
bubble up over a long period oftime.
Just all of a sudden, whizzingout like a boomerang in the sky
out of nowhere comes this whitepaper from the Heritage
Foundation that says, repeal theFACE Act.
And I remember looking at thatand going, oh my gosh, this just
changed the tenor of what'shappening immensely.
(16:32):
So in quick short order,Representative Chip Roy,
introduced a bill to repeal theFACE Act.
There have now been twohearings that have happened on
the House side, as well as amarkup session.
Whether it goes to the fullfloor remains to be seen.
But what I want to underscoreis the change that has happened
is this idea of repealing theFACE Act, which no one said
(17:00):
before this year, has suddenlybecome very normalized.
And in addition, with Trumppardoning these violent FACE Act
violators in the Department ofJustice saying we're not going
to prosecute here, it appears toencourage open season on
abortion providers.
Jennie (17:17):
Yeah, I think it's really important to talk about
what is happening outside ofclinics because the
anti-abortion folks just try toalways portray it and the media
often repeats like it's thelittle old lady praying on the
sidewalk with her rosary and,like, I remember that being the
narrative when buffer zones werein front of the Supreme Court.
(17:38):
Meanwhile, they have theirgiant buffer zone which is,
like, a whole other thing but Ijust remember that being the
narrative that is likecontinually pushed, that it's
just these little people doingsidewalk counseling and just,
you know, trying to convincepeople sweetly of their
decisions.
And that is not what isactually happening.
Erin (18:00):
No, not even close.
We're talking firebombs, deaththreats on the extreme end of
the spectrum.
You're also talking about, I'veseen this firsthand, you know,
sometimes clinics willphysically build walls and
they'll just build scaffoldingand stand on top of the walls
and then use their megaphone toscream in, screaming,
(18:23):
terrorizing entire communities.
You know, you see things,groups like Operation Save
America will have what they call"national events," where they
basically bring in people fromaround the country to siege, not
just all the clinics in acommunity, but the entire
community.
And I remember one year when Iwas in North Carolina engaged in
(18:43):
clinic defense with this, a momcame up to us and she's like,
'I'm not even pro-choice, but Iorganized a petition against
these guys because I was tiredof seeing their ugly banners at
Walmart.
I didn't want my kids to seethat.' So, I mean, the point is
they are extremely aggressive,blockading access to these
clinics, shouting people down.
(19:05):
Another memory that I have fromclinic escorting.
This was outside a clinic wherethey were literally spraying
ketchup on the snow to try tomake it look like blood,
screaming out all of theseepithets.
They would target, they seemedto especially target the people
of color.
They were screaming at men withtheir partners, you know, man
(19:27):
up, stop her.
And I remember one woman, itwas raining at the time and, you
know, we had the umbrella upand she looks at me and she's
like, are they here for me?
I mean, she was justincredulous, as she should have
been, that there was this entirespectacle with people shouting
(19:47):
epithets and acting just violentand crazy over her own private
business.
So it's- the narrative that isportrayed, that is false.
That is not what's happening.
And that is not what the FACEAct addresses.
The FACE Act is directly aboutpeople using physical force or
(20:08):
the threat of physical force orphysical obstruction to
intentionally injure or blockpeople from accessing care.
Jennie (20:18):
I can't imagine trying to go and access healthcare and
have somebody yelling at meabout my choices.
That is just a wild thing toaccept as normal or should be
allowed to happen.
Erin (20:32):
Correct.
And it is the face of theanti-abortion cause.
And it's also one of the worstfaces of the anti-abortion cause
because people don't like this.
As I said, I've had people comeup to me before and say, I'm
not even pro-choice and I hatethis and I want to stop this.
So it's significant.
And what we've also seen isthat, you know, now that
(20:56):
abortion care...
this is one of the reasons, bythe way, Jennie, that medication
abortion drives abortionopponents crazy because they
can't control it.
What are they supposed to do?
Go inside every single person'smedicine cabinet and stage a
protest outside their house?
Scale-wise, it doesn't workout.
So, we've also seen these samesorts of tactics.
(21:18):
In some cases, they'll extendit forward to the pharmacies.
And they're like, I've seenthis before, where the organized
groups that do the clinicblockades are like, okay, we're
going to go target thisparticular pharmacy.
Nobody wants that when they'regoing to buy their Band-Aids and
Rolaids.
Get out of there, guys.
Right?
Jennie (21:36):
Yeah.
So you just harass everybodygoing in?
Because like, what are youdoing?
Erin (21:40):
Right, right.
It's just pure hate.
Jennie (21:43):
You know, I think one of the things that I've also been
just thinking about is, what weare seeing with the FACE Act in
place is still really bad andthat we still clearly need the
FACE Act.
But thinking through, like, ifthey actually do manage to
repeal it, it is going tocontinue to embolden these
(22:04):
anti-abortion activists who havealready been emboldened by
being able to overturn Roe.
And it's scary to think aboutwhat that future could
look like.
Erin (22:13):
Oh, it's horrifying.
And we're already in anenvironment where vigilante
violence is being encouraged ona variety of levels:
anti-abortion, anti-democracy.
You know, I need to, in goodconscience and actually as a
person who grew up in Minnesotaand is still psychically and
emotionally-
Was just thinking about it.
(22:34):
-identifies as a Minnesotan, even if I don't live
there anymore.
You know, we saw politicalassassinations happen there from
an anti-abortion zealot, whohad a hit list of a number of
pro-reproductive freedomlegislators and advocates.
And if you go and look, I mean,that's the broader connection
(22:57):
that we need to draw.
A lot of times people will saylike, oh yeah, it's just these
lone wolves who are out theredoing this.
And it's like, no.
What we actually have and sawin Minnesota, for example, there
were many, many different statelegislators who made extremely
violent comments about theircolleagues in attributing, you
(23:18):
know, making extremely falsestatements, inflammatory
statements about abortion.
You had the Minnesota Right toLife chapter putting out videos
of pro-reproductive freedomstate lawmakers that literally
had target crosshairs over theirfaces while they are yelling at
them, right?
So, it's real bad out there.
(23:39):
I mean, and it's beingencouraged on so many levels.
So, it is something we shouldall be frightened about.
Jennie (23:47):
Yeah, I feel like that's something that has like driven
some of like the internalconversations, even just like
with the work we do.
Like, yes, I am not at aclinic, but, you know, I have a
podcast where I talk about thesethings and like starting to
think through things that weneed to do to ensure our staff
is safe.
And it's so wild to be in thatplace where those are the
(24:07):
conversations we need to have.
And I feel like the last coupleof years, those conversations
have really ramped up in ouroffice.
Erin (24:15):
And they need to.
And, you know, it's criticalthat we need to assure the
safety of people.
And unfortunately, we are notin safe times.
And that is not just for thosein the reproductive health
rights and justice community.
I mean, we're literally in ascenario where activists are
getting plucked off the streetby masked agents and sent to
(24:35):
other countries with no dueprocess.
Jennie (24:39):
Yeah.
It's important to remember allof these connections because
they are all related andlike...[shudders]
Erin (24:44):
Yikes.
Jennie (24:46):
Yeah.
It is just so much happeningright now and so many threads
and things to keep track of.
It's hard to not feeloverwhelmed and also remembering
that that part is what they arelooking for.
They are trying to overwhelm usso that we are not
taking action.
Erin (25:03):
Correct.
And to come at this fromanother way, because that's
absolutely correct.
Authoritarianism is designed tooverwhelm.
The anti-abortion cause haslong bombarded with every single
piece of spaghetti they can getto stick to the wall.
When we are talking aboutanti-abortion violence, people
(25:24):
need to understand that it isbroadly unpopular, not just with
reproductive health rights andjustice supporters.
It is broadly unpopular withthe middle.
It is unpopular with theanti-abortion base with a
notable part of this.
So on another hand, this doesseem like a very stupid fight
(25:47):
that they've chosen to pickbecause anti-abortion violence
is like their worst faceforward.
And they've decided to makethat their face forward of let's
promote violence from the top,from the White House, from the
Congress.
So, I do think this is anopportunity for us to really go
(26:08):
on offense and demand safe,respectful access to health
care.
Jennie (26:15):
I really like that idea of like turning it on its head.
Like, this is, like, the beyondthe bare minimum to ask for to
keep the FACE Act in place andto enforce this already
proposed.
Right.
Like, that feels like the bareminimum of what we should be
expecting.
And you're right.
People do not like to see thosekinds of violence.
(26:36):
And I think along that line is.
It's hard to get some of thatday to day because it is so
often happening for it to getthe attention so that the
general public is less aware ofsome of that violence that is
happening unless it's in theirspecific community and they are
actually seeing it.
Otherwise, I think a lot ofpeople are not as familiar that
(26:56):
it is like still happening atthe level it's happening.
Erin (27:00):
It is happening.
And there is, again, like Trumpand the Department of Justice
appear to be declaring openseason on abortion providers.
But I also want to say this,that the abortion care
community, the people whoprovide abortion care, put
tremendous thought, effort,intention, resources, smarts,
(27:21):
and security into ensuring thatpatients are able to receive
health care when they need it,where they need it in their
communities.
So the point of this is not toscare people and say, if you
need an abortion, you better gohide.
You can go.
But we need to be aware thatthis is something where we do
(27:44):
need laws to offer theseprotections.
And we do need those laws to beenforced.
And we do need to demand thataccountability from our
legislators.
But it is safe to go get anabortion.
Someone should feel safe, safeand supported going to get it.
There are so many cool peoplein the abortion care community
who just do amazing things.
(28:04):
And, you know, there's bothvisible security and a lot of
security that's been put intoplace that's not visible.
And I know so many in thiscommunity put real effort and
intention to still make placesfeel warm, supportive, like the
places people can go to get theimportant care they need.
Jennie (28:22):
That's such an important point.
Thank you for pulling thatforward.
Erin (28:25):
Yeah, I just didn't want to be like, and it's all bad and
don't go because that's notthat's not the case.
Abortion providers are amazingindividuals who are doing the
work to make it safe andcomfortable.
And the government has a numberof bad actors right now that
need accountability.
Jennie (28:42):
Okay, so I guess I'm starting to think of like, what
are next steps?
Like, what are some of the nextthings we should be thinking
about or we should be trying todo?
Erin (28:51):
That's a great question.
So, there are so many ways thatpeople can engage in helping to
support access to safe abortioncare.
And so first of all, on themost local level of all, there
are often clinic escort groupsthat people can get involved in.
And this can be both.
I've done it before.
(29:12):
It can be really fun andaffirming, but it's a great way
to provide direct support andpractical support to people if
they may be facing, you know,people who are shouting at them,
because what you can do is youcan actually walk with someone,
accompany them.
You can help block someonewho's trying to interfere with
them, so they don't have tolisten.
'You can look at me and you canlisten to me.
(29:32):
You don't have to listen tothem.' So that's a practical
thing that people can do.
Another thing, absolutely,contact your member of Congress
and let them know how you feelabout this and tell them to get
loud.
Tell them to get loud.
So the last thing that I'll sayis, yes, we know both from the
pardons of the FACE Actviolators, the pardons of the
(29:55):
January Sixers, the fact thatTrump encouraged January Six,
the fact that he encouragesviolence, that he has no problem
with this.
But I will say this, this is avery anti-abortion president,
but he doesn't want to be seenas anti-abortion.
And so there actually is aleverage point there.
I'm not saying that he'ssomeone that can be counted on,
(30:16):
far from it.
But I am saying puttingpressure on him about being an
anti-abortion leader is not thepublicity he wants.
So, I think it behooves us totalk about this a lot.
Jennie (30:31):
Yeah.
He doesn't want to be seen asthe bad guy in some of these
areas, right?
It does make a difference.
And I think it's made adifference already in some of
the things that maybe weexpected to happen that haven't
happened.
But again, not saying hope andthere's good things, but...
less bad is still good at themoment.
Erin (30:50):
Oh, absolutely.
And we have seen how he hasdone so many things this term
without hesitation.
And so it's actually ratherremarkable that a number of
things on the anti-abortion wishlist have not happened.
And that, I think, speaks tothe fear that that exists at the
(31:11):
top of the White House.
I don't think it existselsewhere in the administration.
In fact, he's brought in anumber of anti-abortion people
within the administration, so weneed to be worried about that.
But at the top, he does notwant to be seen as the person
who's bringing down the hammer.
Jennie (31:25):
Yeah, Erin, thank you so much.
I love hearing ideas to getinvolved locally, being a clinic
escort.
There are always great ways toengage in your local community
because that is where the fightis happening right now.
Erin (31:38):
Yeah.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me, Jennie.
Jennie (31:40):
Okay, y'all.
Thank you for tuning in.
I hope you enjoyed myconversation with Erin so that
you are now all up to date onwhat is happening around the
FACE Act.
And with that, I will seeeverybody next week.
Hey rePROs, if you're cravingmore reproductive justice
podcasts to geek out on, andyou're curious how abortion and
(32:00):
reproductive health play outbeyond the U.S., then let me
introduce you to Aborsh.
Aborsh, like a cute abortion,is a Canadian podcast that
explores what choice reallymeans and looks like and why
that answer is different fordifferent people.
Now in its second season, hostRachel Cairns talks to people
who've had abortions at alldifferent stages of pregnancy
(32:21):
and phases of life, connectingtheir stories to the bigger
picture.
Yeah, it's a lot, but somehowAborsh makes space for all of
it.
It's that rare show thatdoesn't just point out the
problems.
It reminds us that collectivelywe have power and that change
(32:44):
is possible.
Plus, it's smart, candid, andeven funny.
Because sometimes we need tolaugh while riding the hot mess
express that is society rightnow.
So, if you want to feelinformed, inspired, and a little
less alone, check out Aborshwherever you're listening
right now.
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