August 5, 2025 • 41 mins
The Green Wave Movement began in 2018 in Argentina, focused on anti-femicide but quickly evolving into a bodily autonomy and abortion movement. Protestors took to the streets to not only change the law, but to change the culture across Latin America. Asha Dahya, head of Girl Talk HQ and creator and executive producer of the podcast Green Tide Rising and the short film Someone You Know, sits down to talk to us about this motivating movement across Latin America and what the U.S. can learn.
Latin America previously hosted some of most restrictive environments worldwide for the access of abortion services. Because of Argentina’s initial countrywide protests, the Argentinian government legalized abortion up to 14 weeks of pregnancy. Success in Argentina’s protest spirit then spilled into other countries, including Mexico and Colombia, creating broad judicial and legislative change.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie (00:03):
Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things
related to sexual andreproductive health rights and
justice.
Hi rePROs, how's everybodydoing?
I'm your host, Jennie Wetter,and my pronouns are she/her.
So first, huge thank you toeverybody who has bought merch
so far.
I am just so surprised.
(00:24):
I'm so excited for our merch,so it's so exciting to see y'all
be excited and buying things.
I love all of the designs wehave.
The ones from Liberal Jane, ourones from our in-house designer
we use, Tanya.
I love all of them.
I'm so excited to see them ont-shirts and bags and pouches
(00:46):
and water bottles and coffeemugs and oh my, so many things.
If you have not been to ourmerch store yet, one, the link
will be in the show notes, butalso you can find it at Bonfire
if you look for rePROs FightBack or if you go
to tinyurl.com/reprosfbmerch.
Yeah, check it out.
I hope you love it as much aswe do, and I'm just so grateful
(01:09):
to the people who have alreadybought the rePROs merch to wear
out in the wild so I can't wait.
I hope someday I run intosomebody wearing some stuff that
would just like make my day.
I'd be so excited.
So, yeah let's see what else isgoing on...
I feel like my brain is like alittle sluggish right now I feel
like my to-do list keepsgetting longer and longer and my
(01:31):
will to do anything on it islike getting lower and lower, so
I'm hoping the weekend will belike a little bit of a mental
reset so I can get some of thosethings done but yeah I just I'm
not really feeling it.
I just don't have the get upand go at the moment to tackle
it.
And I think the longer the listgets, the less I want to tackle
(01:52):
it, which is not helpful.
But yeah, that's kind of whereI'm at mentally right now.
But I am very much lookingforward to stone fruit season.
I have not really dove into ita lot yet.
I have some peaches coming myway that I am so excited about.
I am looking forward to eatingall of the peaches and some
nectarines and yeah, stone fruitseason has been my favorite.
(02:15):
I've already had so manydelicious cherries.
I'm going to have to think ofsome baking things to do with
all of the delicious stone fruitI have coming my way.
It's the little things thatmake me so happy and stone fruit
season in the summer isdefinitely one of those things
that like makes me so happy.
There is just nothing like afresh juicy peach.
Oh, so good.
(02:36):
Like I said, my brain is kindof messy right now, so I'm just
going to stop because I feellike otherwise I'm just going to
be rambling all over the place.
And let's go to this week'sinterview instead.
So you can listen to a greatconversation I had with Asha
Dahya.
She is the founder of Girl TalkHQ, but we actually have her on
talking about this amazingpodcast and video series she did
(02:57):
called Green Tide Rising, wherewe talk about the Green Wave
movement.
Definitely check out theseries.
It was so wonderful to watchthe videos and listen to the
podcast.
And I had such a wonderful timetalking to Asha.
So, let's go to my interviewwith Asha.
Hi, Asha.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
Asha (03:45):
Hello Jennie!
It’s great to be here with you. I'm so glad we are finally connecting. I feel like we’ve been circling each other and trying to connect on various things, and so glad we’re finally making it happen.
Yes.
Before we get started, so you want to introduce yourself and include your pronouns?
My name is Asha Dahya. My pronouns are she/her. I am based in Los Angeles. As you can probably tell from my accent, I am originally from Australia. I am a filmmaker, andunder that banner, I'm
predominantly a producer andwriter, but I've done some
directing.
I'm the creator, executiveproducer, and co-host of a
podcast series called Green TideRising, which is about Latin
America's Green Wave movementand what the US can learn from
it.
I'm the director and producerof an award-winning short
(04:06):
documentary called Someone YouKnow.
It's an animated film focusingon three women's experiences
getting a later abortion in theUnited States before the Dobbs
decision.
And it kind of shows how hardIt has always been to access
later abortion, especially forthe most vulnerable folks.
And I also run a digitalfeminist magazine called Girl
(04:29):
Talk HQ.
And from that, I got a bookdeal.
So there's a spinoff book fromthe blog.
It's called Today's WonderWomen: Everyday Superheroes Who
Are Changing the World.
So yeah, I'm a media creator.
I'm a writer.
I'm a storyteller.
I think that's probably thebest encapsulation of who I am
and what I do.
Jennie (04:50):
So glad you brought up your short film because we are
in the middle of a six-monthseries on abortion later in
pregnancy.
So, so great to hear that.
Asha (04:59):
Yes, and thank you for doing that series.
It's so important.
I feel like there's been toomuch hesitation, even from
left-leaning folks, to talkabout this issue, but now we are
in the moment we're in, and weneed to have that education,
that empathy, and storytellingaround it, too.
I think first-personstorytelling...
(05:20):
you can never go wrong with it.
You know, you can't denysomeone's lived experience
having to navigate those veryreal and very harmful barriers.
So thank you for doing thatseries.
And I'm glad that we get tohave these conversations.
Jennie (05:34):
Yeah, no, I totally agree on the storytelling.
So, it's so great to havesomeone who does whose job is
basically like you saidstorytelling.
Asha (05:41):
Yeah.
Jennie (05:42):
So, I'm so excited to have you on today we're going to
talk about Green Tide Risingwhich I was telling you right as
we got on, like, I had justbeen listening to it before I
signed on so I've just had yourvoice in my head for all morning
as we were getting as I wasgetting ready for this.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about what inspired you to
make that?
Asha (06:02):
Yeah, so, it kind of started very differently to what
it is now.
I have been wanting to, forabout eight years, I wanted to
make a docu-series aboutabortion in the United States
originally.
And that kind of stemmed frommy experience growing up
(06:22):
conservative evangelical.
I grew up in Australia and it'svery different, the landscape
is very different there.
It's not as politicallyintertwined as it is here.
When I moved here in 2008, Ijoined a very large conservative
evangelical, or I'll sayevangelical church in Los
Angeles, not understanding thesocio-political ties.
(06:44):
Of course, 2008 was an electionyear.
It was the election of thefirst Black president in this
country.
And I very quickly learnedpolitics around racism, around
gender identity, around all thethings that are very closely
intertwined with abortion rightstoday.
(07:05):
And one of the things that Irealized was this idea of being
quote unquote "pro-life," andI'm hesitant to use that term,
but that's what I had quicklylearned that this is what it
means to be evangelical in theUnited States.
But what I also saw over theyears was that, although there
were people on stage, mostlymen, some women, talking about
(07:29):
how they are very againstabortion, all those kind of
things, behind closed doors andin the quiet conversations, away
from the pulpit, people arehaving abortions and they're
going to the clinics that theyclaim to not support.
There was a huge disconnectthere for me and I wanted to
explore that in my very curiousstorytelling nature.
(07:52):
So, I went on this journeybefore, funnily enough, before I
had kids to really figure out,okay, so what are the...
abortion is not its own silo.
It is interconnected to so manyaspects of our lives and I was
looking at birth control,maternal mortality, sex
education and just all thethings that we see at healthcare
access in the United States.
(08:14):
And then I had two kids andthen different elections
happened in 2016, as we allknow, and the pandemic.
And so, I had to put that ideaaside.
As, you know, this happens alot in filmmaking and
storytelling, you know, you comeup with an idea, you try to
pitch it, you get a whole bunchof no's and you think, all
right, fine, it's done, it'sdone.
(08:35):
Then in 2021, I met a womannamed Ximena Casas Isaza.
She's originally from Colombia.
She is a researcher and afeminist lawyer.
She's based in Spain now.
And I met her through WEC,which is an organization that
does a lot of great work inLatin America and here in the
(08:55):
U.S.
And my friend Paola introducedme to Ximena and said, oh,
because I told her about thisseries that I had an idea about.
And I said, oh, Latin Americais doing some really interesting
things.
She said, talk to Ximena.
Ximena is doing a first of itskind research tracking the
impact of abortioncriminalization across the
(09:17):
region, which hadn't been donebefore.
There have been a fewindividual countries in Latin
America that had tracked dataand written reports, some of
which Ximena had done.
She was doing a regional reportlooking at the criminalization
and also looking at how abortionmedication was, how that was
impacting the landscape andchanging the way people access
(09:40):
abortion and the power shift anddynamic, you know, it kind of
took away that gatekeeping in alot of ways.
So, as I got talking with her,this is 2021, as she's talking
and she's talking about the,telling me the countries she's
focusing on, I thought thiswould be a great docu-series.
This is a podcast or somethinglike what you're doing is really
fascinating.
And this was, of course, abouta year before the Dobbs decision
(10:05):
overturning Roe v.
Wade.
And then by 2022, her projectwas- her research was kind of
moving along.
She'd onboarded partners andfunders.
Then Dobbs happened in June2022, and I thought we need to
do something about this nowbecause in 2021, Mexico's
(10:26):
Supreme Court made a reallyinteresting ruling, basically
the opposite of what we'reseeing in the United States.
Just after the Dobbs decision,Colombia, their Supreme Court,
made the complete opposite ofthe Dobbs decision.
And now they have one of themost progressive abortion laws
in the world, decriminalizedabortion as well.
(10:48):
And it became very apparentthat our...
compadres, compatriots in theGlobal South are doing some
really exciting, innovative anddifferent strategic work around
abortion access.
And what are the things that wecan highlight?
Because we're so used to,especially in the Global North,
(11:08):
having this idea of "Americanexceptionalism." So then, you
know, cut to 2024, I think, puttogether a team of producers and
we had originally thought,okay, we want to maybe pitch it
to a podcast company, you know,like a Serial [Productions] or
Wondery or Spotify.
We'd put a package together.
And we got the usual, well,this is very important, but we
(11:31):
don't have the budget for it.
It's not right for us.
And then we just got to thepoint where we said, we need to
find the funding ourselves andmake this happen because it's
too urgent and too important towait around for someone else to
give us permission.
So we did that.
We found funding through grantsand different foundations.
And in a very, very short, Iwould say 14 or 15 weeks, we did
(11:54):
fundraising, hiring all ourteam and production and all the
things all in one and we wantedto the idea was to release all
eight episodes in the lead up tothe presidential election in
2024 which we did and so it wasa mad rush to get it all
together but yeah it was but wedid it.
(12:15):
So, Green Tide Rising, that'show it all came together.
Jennie (12:17):
First of all, it is great.
I really, I've enjoyedlistening to it.
I watched the videos first andthen went and I was listening to
the full episodes.
I haven't made it all throughall eight because I started a
little too late but that's okay,I will finish it.
Okay, so y'all you shoulddefinitely check it out but also
if you want more on some ofthat like legal wrangling in the
(12:41):
cases that Asha was talkingabout we talked to the O'Neill
[Institute for National and Global Health Law]and some of their partners in
Latin America and did some realdeep dive episodes on that so
we'll make sure to include thosein our show notes as well but
also the Green Tide Rising has alot more information about like
the specific countries and whathappened I have to say I'm
(13:02):
really connected to like yourfirst part where you're talking
about your upbringing.
We were talking before abouthow I was raised Catholic.
I went to Catholic school K-8.
I had sex ed from a nun whichagain that's like heavily air
quoted "sex ed" because it wasvery much the like...
Asha (13:18):
It almost sounds like an oxymoron, right?
Jennie (13:21):
Yeah, very much like, you know, the Mean Girls version
of like, you have sex, you getthis horrible disease and you're
going to die.
I mean, maybe that was alsojust '90s sex ed, but like, in
particular from a nun, thatwas...
And I think in many ways, like,I was lucky.
Like, I think the church I wentto was never, I don't remember
(13:43):
hearing it from the pulpit andlike having like that heavy,
like lots of conversation aboutit.
Maybe I just don't remember itand blocked it out.
'Cause I was like, no, but, butI don't remember that
happening, but I do rememberlike through like sex ed and
things like that, like gettingall of the, like, negative,
anti-abortion and like, I wasthinking that when you were
(14:07):
talking in your video, just likethe, the shame around sex and
like, and that just like, itsticks to you.
Like, it's one of those thingsthat as I have evolved all of my
thinking and have broken somany of those shackles, like,
some of that just like is reallyhard to get rid of.
Yeah, and so that's one of thethings, like, I always am very
passionate about talking aboutcomprehensive inclusive sex ed
(14:30):
and making sure you are getting-
...medically accurate...
Yes! Like, it is so important for just a whole host
of reasons.
Asha (14:38):
Yeah, yeah, I agree and I really love having more
conversations that connect thosepeople who have those religious
backgrounds and we did that inGreen Tide Rising, we spoke to
a couple of folks from Catholicsfor the Right to Decide in
Argentina and in Mexico.
And it was so great to heartheir perspective.
And there's such a rich historyof activism and social justice
(15:00):
with these progressive Catholicorganizations.
And it was just reallyheartwarming to hear that.
And I hope people get someencouragement out of that, that
just because you are a person offaith, that doesn't necessarily
mean you have to beanti-abortion or anti-sex ed or
not sex positive.
You know, it's- not all that...is said from the pulpit.
Jennie (15:22):
Okay.
So I really, like I said, Ireally enjoyed this series.
It offers like this greatcounterpoint to, like, what we
were experiencing in the U.S.
as we saw abortion continuingto get more and more restricted
at the state level, all the wayup to Dobbs that the green wave
movement was like this great,uh, counterbalance to look at
(15:42):
and see how the U.S.
was really just out of stepwith what was happening
globally.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about the Green Wave
movement?
It's been a little bit sincewe've talked about it on the
podcast.
So, maybe like start like withthe real simple, like what is
the Green Wave movement?
Asha (15:56):
Yeah.
So, the Green Wave and episodeone, we talk about where the
color green came from, where thebandana came from.
So I'd recommend listening tothat, but essentially it began
in 2018 in Argentina and it wasformed.
It kind of was an offshoot ofan anti-femicide movement where
the women and activists andpeople were going to the streets
(16:19):
and protesting against genderviolence and then they realized
that to be able to live free andsafely you had to have bodily
autonomy and that starts withbeing able to control all
decisions about your bodyincluding pregnancy, maternal
health care, abortion, all ofthose things.
(16:39):
And so abortion became a verykey issue for them because if
you have access to abortionthere is this idea that it's
because it is connected tomaternal health care all
different types of health caresex education all the different
socio-economic, like, paid leavematernity leave all the things
that we need to live anautonomous life that they needed
(17:01):
to fight for abortion and alsoprior to Argentina legalizing it
death from unsafe abortion wasone of the leading causes of
maternal mortality So there wasan urgency around this issue.
So, they took to the streets,and it wasn't just about
changing the law.
It was about changing theculture first.
They knew that if we can havean army of people in the
(17:26):
streets, in colleges, ontelevision, in lounge rooms, in
places of worship and faith, andwe change the culture first, by
the time it gets to Congress,which it did in December 2020,
then this is an undeniablemovement.
that they have to pay attentionto.
And that is exactly whathappened.
I mean, there were politicianswho were on the fence over
(17:47):
anti-abortion, but they saw thechange that was happening
culturally.
So in 2020, they legalized itup to 14 weeks.
They did not decriminalize it,but that doesn't mean they're
done.
So then Argentina happened in2020.
Mexico saw what was happening.
So many countries across theregion saw what was happening
and thought this was like a whatdo you guess, like a signal
(18:10):
flare being sent up across theregion.
Like, we can do this.
Let's go to the streets.
We are everyday people.
We don't have to have a ton ofmoney or status or celebrity or
power.
This is what we need.
It's a people-powered movement.
So yeah, that's kind of how itspread.
And it's still spreading.
And the interesting thing aboutLatin America is that every
country has its own set or tiersof abortion restrictions or
(18:35):
abortion laws, similar to theway or comparable to the way the
United States, every state isnow its own country in a sense.
So, it's a really interestingcomparison and there's a lot we
can learn how Latin America, theactivists down there, have had
different approaches fordifferent countries, but there's
this overarching sense of weare a wave of people.
(18:58):
We are going to make changehappen.
We're not going to wait for theSupreme Court or the President
or the Prime Minister or theleaders to do this for us.
We're going to show them whatwe need and what we want.
So the Green Wave is, it's notone leader, it's everyone and
everyone has a role to play.
And that's what I love aboutthe movement.
It's decentralized.
There's a place for everyone tojoin and do their part and make
(19:21):
change happen.
So I get goosebumps talkingabout it because it's really
cool.
So stop me from talking,Jennie, because I could go on.
Jennie (19:28):
No, it's so energizing.
And just the green bandanasjust became so...
ubiquitous.
They were everywhere, like, yousaw them in front of the
Supreme Court-
Asha (19:40):
Yeah.
Jennie (19:41):
-around Dobbs, like they just they have really come from
Latin America and you see themin the U.S.
now and just-
You see them in Iran, they'rebeing used in parts of Africa
it's it's everywhere It's reallycool.
Can I also mention somethingabout the green bandana?
Because in the US, there'salways this binary paradigm of
(20:02):
"pro-life" versus "pro-choice."And we interviewed Marta Alanis,
who was the founder ofCatholics for the Right to
Decide in Argentina.
And she is the one who createdthe green bandana.
And she was saying how...
you know, why we chose green,because it's the color of life.
It's trees, it's nature, it'sour world.
And so they've kind of takenthis weaponized term and really
(20:24):
reclaimed it and said, we arethe ones advocating for life
with this symbol, which has nowbecome global.
And I just really love thatbecause it's not such a binary
thing.
It's, we are fighting for thelives of people to make their
own decisions.
And I love that they did that.
Well, right.
And it's always been like,"pro-life" has been more about
pro-birth,pro- making you have the baby.
(20:45):
And the pro-abortion space has been more about empowering you to live the life you want, and healthy, and, like, having access to the health care you need. And it is so much bigger, especially as you get into Reproductive Justice. It is the real- having that safe, healthy life and being able to make the decisions you need to raise your kids in that safe, healthy environment, or not have kids orwhatever you need to be
(21:18):
supported and have that fullrange of bodily autonomy.
Asha (21:21):
Yeah.
And when you mentionedReproductive Justice, I mean,
it's such a completely differentparadigm to when you think of
reproductive rights or thepro-choice, which is a very,
very narrow political slogan.
But what Latin America has donewas said, this is not a legal
movement.
This is a human rightsmovement.
And I think even just thatlittle shift in mentality and
(21:43):
completely opens it up when youlook at the Reproductive Justice
movement started by Black womenin the United States in the
early 90s they were like legalrights mean nothing in name only
when we can't access it.
We need to be able to raise ifwe want to have a family, how
can we raise that family insafety, in community, when we
don't have access to theseresources?
(22:03):
And so, I think just thatshifting of our perspective is
really, really key to how wefight for abortion today and
going forward.
Jennie (22:12):
Right.
And legal doesn't matter if Ican't access it, right?
If there is not a clinic nearme and I need to take time off
work and drive or have to travelto get it or I can't afford it
or any number of barriers we'vetalked about over the years on
this podcast, right?
So, legal, as we've alwayssaid, has never been enough.
(22:33):
We needed to make it actuallyaccessible and the full range of
things that access means.
There are so many thingsencompassed in that small word
of access that are important tomaking sure people are able to
make the decisions they want ina way that is supported.
Asha (22:50):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Jennie (22:52):
So, I really loved thinking about what can U.S.
advocates, like what can welearn from the Green Wave
movement?
Because I really do think theyhave been so successful and not
just in getting change, but likebuilding this real movement.
And I would love to see likeways we can bring that here.
I mean, we've, I think, youknow, Dobbs obviously lit off an
(23:15):
even bigger movement than therealready was, but I still think
there as always should belessons that can be learned from
other places.
Asha (23:23):
Yeah.
I think the first thing that weas American audiences, people
living in the United Statesprimarily, need to understand,
and Lourdes from PregnancyJustice really outlined this
really well in episode eight, isthat we need to let go of this
idea of American exceptionalism,that we are the leader on human
(23:44):
rights, and clearly we are notthat.
And we need to kind of let goof our pride a little bit and
understand that there are peoplein the Global South who are
doing things that we should betaking note of.
You know, we're not the, youknow, the white savior mentality
where we need to shift that,And so that's the first thing I
would start with, interrogatingourselves.
(24:04):
What I love about the GreenWave, and Ximena talks about
this really well, and herresearch, by the way, you
mentioned the O'Neill Institute,she's working with the O'Neill
Institute on this, she talksabout this idea of social
decriminalization.
So, we hear the worddecriminalization where abortion
is decriminalized, meaning thatit's typically taken out of the
(24:26):
criminal code in a state or acountry and put into the health
code where instead of criminalpenalties or calling the
authorities, now it's just underthe purview of the healthcare
realm.
But again, that's just a rightin name only or on paper only if
you can't access it.
So this idea of socialdecriminalization, which the
(24:48):
Green Wave has perfected sowell, well, maybe not perfected,
but that's what they'recentered around.
is that it's not just aboutwhat happens in the courts of
law.
It's what are you doing in yourcommunities?
How are we educating ourselves?
How are we using our skills andresources now to advocate for
this?
(25:08):
And I'll give one example fromthe series.
In episode two, we focused onEl Salvador, which has a
complete abortion ban, noexceptions.
We interviewed a woman namedTeodora Vásquez, who was in
prison for 11 years for anobstetric emergency.
And I won't go into too muchdetails because we do in the
episode, we put a triggerwarning and there's, you know,
(25:30):
there's, it was a very horrificexperience for her, but she is
now a huge activist and what shehas done in a country.
Oh,hello. [Jennie's cat makes an appearance]
Jennie (25:41):
Go lay down . [speaking to cat] Thank you.
Asha (25:43):
What Teodora has done in El Salvador is nothing short of
inspiring because she came outof, by the way, she was a mother
when she went into the prison,she had a child at home.
What [she] needed [was] medicalattention but instead they
called the authorities that isso dangerous and so harmful and
so stigmatizing in that veryvulnerable situation.
(26:06):
Nevertheless, she survived andshe did her time in prison and
after she came out she wasoffered amnesty by a number of
countries to say come and livehere you'll be safe you'll be
free.
But she was like, no, I don'twant other women in El Salvador
to go through what I wentthrough.
So, she started a nonprofitorganization called Mujeres
(26:30):
Libres, where she educates womenabout their rights, educates
them about bodily autonomy,about abortion, about all the
healthcare things that theyshould have a right to access.
And it sounds like not a bigdeal, but in a country where all
abortion is banned and To starta legally recognized entity,
(26:52):
legally recognized by thegovernment, where they advocate
for abortion, for her was a bigdeal because they know what this
organization is.
But even though they can'taccess abortion, they're finding
ways to help each other on acommunity level.
So, I think that's one of thekey lessons here in the United
States that we're seeing moreadvocates for.
(27:13):
point toward is what are thecommunity solutions?
What can we do with the peoplein our own networks?
Because we might not be able torely on the laws or all the
clinics in our...
area might be closed becausethey've been defunded or there's
just no access to any sort ofcare.
So how do we help each other?
And I think that's whatTheodora really exemplified.
(27:35):
And just that education pieceof if the authorities come to
your door or your place of work,which is what happened to her,
and they start questioning youabout your pregnancy, what are
your rights and how do you standup for yourself?
And we're seeing that todayacross the US, not just with
pregnancies, but with immigrantcommunities.
What are your rights how do youstand up for yourself how does
(27:56):
the community come in and standup for you and it sounds like
it's not really abortion relatedbut it really is because it's
all about how we have thoseindividual freedoms and rights
to make the best decisions forourselves without interference
from those outside entities andso...
yeah, the socialdecriminalization aspect is
(28:17):
really key.
And then we had some other coolexamples, like in Colombia,
they, you know, they didn't justprotest outside the courts.
They did reggaeton dances.
They used art and music andcreativity to really-
Jennie (28:28):
They're trying to steal our joy.
Asha (28:30):
Right.
Jennie (28:30):
So, like, bringing the joy is so important.
Asha (28:34):
Yes, exactly.
You know, why not use comedy?
Like, what Liz Winstead doeswith abortion access.
I mean, that's the kind ofstuff that we, that is social
decriminalization right therebecause it's breaking down the
stigma internally withinourselves, then in our
communities, then we can go toget, you know, the lawyers and
all those really, really smartpeople to go to the courts and
(28:54):
make the arguments for us.
So, yeah, it's every aspect.
It's got to be socialfirst, though.
Jennie (29:00):
Yeah, and getting the information out there is so
important.
You know, I've talked about onthe podcast the importance of,
like, conversations with yourfriends.
And I don't mean, like, having,jumping into, like, the hostile
conversation.
Like, you don't need to dothat.
But, like...
unless that's something youwant to do.
Like, if that's, if that's yourjam, I'm an introvert.
Asha (29:18):
Coming from an evangelical Christian background where it's
like, do you know Jesus?
It's like, don't do that.
Jennie (29:22):
I'm like an introvert who was an only child.
So, like, confrontation is notmy jam, but it may be yours.
So, like.
Asha (29:29):
Each to their own.
Jennie (29:29):
Do it, do it.
Exactly.
But making yourself a resourcewhere people know
that they can go to you for information. And I’ve said this a lot (29:35):
this does not mean you need to know all the things because you can’t. But you know the resources to point them to where they can get trusted information. It’s so important to be that person in your friend group, in your broader circle.
Oh, you need access toservices?
(29:58):
Great.
Well, go to I Need an A.
This will give you the closestclinic.
It'll give you all of thethings you need to think about,
things like that.
Making yourself the resourcefor trusted information is also
so
Asha (30:13):
Yeah.
I think the way that I thinkabout it is, or the way that I
kind of describe it is that Inthe filmmaking world, there's
this saying, there is no shinywhite knight that's going to
come and give you all the moneyand the funding.
And it's the same with everydaylife.
There is no saviour that'sgoing to ride in on their horse
and come and save [us].
"We are the ones that we havebeen waiting for," as the famous
(30:34):
June Jordan poem says.
What can we give to each other?
Even if it's something like...
We talked to activist PaulaMendoza in episode seven, and
she talks about her immigrantcommunity in New York, where
there was a young immigrant girlnamed Romina, and she made a
film about it, where she neededto have an abortion.
People showed up with food,with blankets, with medication,
(30:59):
with just really surrounded herwith all the things that she
knew she may not have been ableto get from going to a clinic.
And so just all those thingslike we can be the ones that we
need for each other is just areally...
It feels empowering becauseit's like, oh, we can do
something and it feels small andinsignificant, but it really
isn't because it's thoseeveryday actions that
(31:21):
collectively make a way, really.
Jennie (31:23):
That's one thing.
So you just made me think ofsomething I did recently that is
one of those things that bringsme joy.
I forget about it every once ina while and then I remember it.
I'm like, oh, I need to go dothis.
You mentioned Abortion AccessFront.
They have a great page on theirwebsite where it has clinics
wishlists, Amazon wishlists,where you can get things that
they need and whether it's planB or coloring books for people
(31:47):
who are like just after theircare.
And I just last week was onthere and like ordering a number
of things for a couple ofclinics.
And like, it's just somethinglike little things that like,
this is going to bring joy tosomebody else or make their day
a little easier.
I know it's one of those thingsthat always makes me happy and
I forget about it.
So, might as well take a minuteto like remind people it's out
(32:09):
there.
Asha (32:09):
Yeah, it's important.
And it is, you know, It'simportant to bring back that joy
because there are so manyserious aspects to it that we
want people to feel good andempowered and surrounded by good
people.
So bring the joy wherever wecan.
Jennie (32:24):
I think the other thing I was thinking about, and we
don't have to dwell on thisbecause this is so like outside
of this exact series, but itmade me think about the current
moment we're in.
And so we're talking aboutaccess to abortion in Latin
America, but it just makes methink of the tax on USAID.
USAID officially no longerexists.
(32:45):
There's no funding right nowfor sexual and reproductive
health.
And US was the largest funderfor sexual and reproductive
health services.
This is going to have hugeripple effects in countries all
over the world.
And that's just something that,one, because it's part of my
day-to-day work I have beensitting with, but listening to
(33:07):
all of the inspiring storiesthat were shared in your
podcast, it just was alsositting with me in that space.
Asha (33:15):
It is devastating and really sad because...
There's this dominant narrativefrom the current administration
where they're like, we don'twant to fund this and fund that.
But it's like, the way that Isee it and the way that we
really encapsulated it in ourepisode on Brazil is: what
responsibility does a globalsuperpower have?
(33:36):
That's Brazil and that's theUnited States.
And we have always consideredourselves, you know, since the
end of World War II, like we arethe leader on human rights.
We champion the small guy.
We help people like that's whowe are.
And beyond that, it's, thedevastating impact of pulling
funding because of a politicaland ideological thought.
(33:59):
Like, who are the everydaypeople who are going to be
impacted?
They are just ordinaryfamilies, young folks,
especially young folks are themost impacted by abortion bans
and restrictions.
And so, I think it's somethingthat we need to think about.
You know, we put so much moneyinto, against our will, into our
military and into these wars,but yet it's, the idea of
(34:22):
helping to fund health clinicsaround the world where they need
some funding to do that, that'sseen, you know, why are people
against that?
And so, I think it's reallyimportant to hold our leaders'
feet to the fire, no matter whoyou vote for, but especially
people who vote Democrat, youknow, make sure we push our
(34:44):
leaders forward to understandingthat it's not enough to virtue
signal.
We have to really stand up forthe most marginalized folks in
our country and across the globebecause that's our
responsibility.
And whether we like it or not,that's what a global superpower
is supposed to do, I believeanyway.
Jennie (35:03):
Okay, so...
I feel like we've alreadytalked about this quite a bit,
but we always end the podcasttalking about what can our
audience do and how can they getinvolved?
So I think we already hit on alot of it, but I'll just ask it
again.
What ways can the people whoare listening to this take
action?
Asha (35:22):
So, at the end of each episode in Green Tide Rising, we
had our featured expert,Ximena, give us bite-sized
pieces of calls to action, whichyou can find if you go to
greentiderising.com.
We have a list of all theorganizations we featured.
There are some in the US aswell and some in Latin America.
There's things like donating.
(35:42):
There are things like sharinginformation on social media.
And beyond that, the biggestcall to action that I would
recommend and that Ximena sharedwith us is having those
conversations with people inyour life.
When you sit down at theproverbial kitchen table or if
you're in your Instagram DMs andyou're chatting over a bit of
(36:03):
content with someone and it'srelated to abortion, you know,
what are those conversations andwhat are you sharing?
I think that first personstorytelling you know, like we
said, is so important.
But yeah, I would encourage youto go to Green Tide Rising.
There are a ton of other waysthat you can take action.
And each organization that wefeatured, like Pregnancy
Justice, like, Catholics for theRight to Decide, and so many
(36:26):
others have their own ways thatthey encourage people to get
involved.
And honestly, one of the thingsthat Ximena says is that the
color green or the Green Wave,there are many different tones
of green, meaning each of us hasour own skill set that we can
bring.
And that's what the green waveencourages people to do.
And that's how we can bring theGreen Wave to the US.
(36:47):
What are you doing in yourstudent union?
What are you doing with yourfamily at home?
What are you doing in yourplace of work?
What are you doing when youtalk to colleagues on Zoom or
Slack or whatever it is?
There are so many ways that wecan fight for abortion access,
champion bodily autonomy.
That can go beyond the votingaspect or you know marching in
(37:09):
the streets if you're not ableto do that and or don't- if you
can't donate.
So, be creative and finddifferent ways.
It doesn't just have to be onespecific call to action.
I hope that makes sense, I kindof rambled a bit.
Jennie (37:21):
No, huge fan of that.
I'm a person who always feelslike I need to do all the things
and like that is not healthy orhelpful, right?
Like, nobody is served if Iburn myself out.
So, like, find the places whereyou can contribute and I mean
that not in a financial way Imean that in whatever way that
you feel like you want to engagewith this movement there are so
(37:44):
many things happening right nowyeah so many different places
you could get involved just findthe one you're passionate about
yeah and and help in the wayyou can.
Asha (37:55):
Yeah, like maybe you're a student who's really good at
Canva and you can make graphicsand posters for your local
organization that they can useand print out at their events or
for their social media.
It can be things like that,organizing a dance party where
you talk about sex education andwhich clinics people can go to
in the area.
Use whatever you have and makeit joyful because it doesn't
(38:17):
have to be awful.
Jennie (38:19):
Asha, if people want to get involved with you and your
work and Green Tide Rising, howcan they get engaged?
Asha (38:26):
Yeah, so you can go to greentiderising.com, all the
links, all the episodes,transcripts, resources, links to
organizations are there.
Also, we are currently in theearly phases of launching an
educational impact campaignwhere we're putting together a
robust discussion guide andpackaging our audio and video
materials so that colleges andacademic institutions and
(38:49):
universities across the UnitedStates can kind of take our
materials, incorporate it intovarious disciplines.
We're targeting women andgender studies, journalism,
history, sociology, poli-sci andlaw schools.
And if you are a professor oryou're a faculty member and
would love to incorporate LatinAmerica's Green Wave into your
(39:11):
curriculum for 2025-26, please, please get in touch.
We're not charging anyone.
We just really want to get themessage out there and feel this
is the right time to do that.
And if I can, I would love toplug my short documentary,
Someone You Know, if anyonewould like to organize a
screening or discussion, speakto some of the women from the
film or the experts, you just goto someoneyouknowdoc.com.
(39:35):
I love working withorganizations and sharing the
film and talking about laterabortion.
We need to do that.
So if you would like to dothat, please hit me up.
Jennie (39:43):
Well, Asha, thank you so much for being here.
It was a real pleasure tofinally get to talk to you.
Yeah, you too.
Thanks for having me.
Okay, y'all.
I had a great time talking toAsha and y'all, I cannot
recommend her series Green TideRising enough and her short
documentary called Someone YouKnow as well.
We'll make sure to have linksto all of the things in our show
notes so that you can checkthem out.
(40:05):
Otherwise, I will see everybodynext week.
Thanks.
If you have any questions,comments or topics you would
like us to cover, always feelfree to shoot me an email.
You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can
find us on social media.
We're at rePROs Fight Back onFacebook and Twitter or
(40:25):
@reprosfb on Instagram.
If you love our podcast andwant to make sure more people
find it, take the time to rateand review us on your favorite
podcast platform.
Or if you want to make sure tosupport the podcast, you can
also donate on our website atreprosfightback.com.
Thanks all!
Welcome to rePROs Fight Back, a podcast on all things
related to sexual andreproductive health rights and
justice.
Hi rePROs, how's everybodydoing?
I'm your host, Jennie Wetter,and my pronouns are she/her.
So first, huge thank you toeverybody who has bought merch
so far.
I am just so surprised.
(00:24):
I'm so excited for our merch,so it's so exciting to see y'all
be excited and buying things.
I love all of the designs wehave.
The ones from Liberal Jane, ourones from our in-house designer
we use, Tanya.
I love all of them.
I'm so excited to see them ont-shirts and bags and pouches
(00:46):
and water bottles and coffeemugs and oh my, so many things.
If you have not been to ourmerch store yet, one, the link
will be in the show notes, butalso you can find it at Bonfire
if you look for rePROs FightBack or if you go
to tinyurl.com/reprosfbmerch.
Yeah, check it out.
I hope you love it as much aswe do, and I'm just so grateful
(01:09):
to the people who have alreadybought the rePROs merch to wear
out in the wild so I can't wait.
I hope someday I run intosomebody wearing some stuff that
would just like make my day.
I'd be so excited.
So, yeah let's see what else isgoing on...
I feel like my brain is like alittle sluggish right now I feel
like my to-do list keepsgetting longer and longer and my
(01:31):
will to do anything on it islike getting lower and lower, so
I'm hoping the weekend will belike a little bit of a mental
reset so I can get some of thosethings done but yeah I just I'm
not really feeling it.
I just don't have the get upand go at the moment to tackle
it.
And I think the longer the listgets, the less I want to tackle
(01:52):
it, which is not helpful.
But yeah, that's kind of whereI'm at mentally right now.
But I am very much lookingforward to stone fruit season.
I have not really dove into ita lot yet.
I have some peaches coming myway that I am so excited about.
I am looking forward to eatingall of the peaches and some
nectarines and yeah, stone fruitseason has been my favorite.
(02:15):
I've already had so manydelicious cherries.
I'm going to have to think ofsome baking things to do with
all of the delicious stone fruitI have coming my way.
It's the little things thatmake me so happy and stone fruit
season in the summer isdefinitely one of those things
that like makes me so happy.
There is just nothing like afresh juicy peach.
Oh, so good.
(02:36):
Like I said, my brain is kindof messy right now, so I'm just
going to stop because I feellike otherwise I'm just going to
be rambling all over the place.
And let's go to this week'sinterview instead.
So you can listen to a greatconversation I had with Asha
Dahya.
She is the founder of Girl TalkHQ, but we actually have her on
talking about this amazingpodcast and video series she did
(02:57):
called Green Tide Rising, wherewe talk about the Green Wave
movement.
Definitely check out theseries.
It was so wonderful to watchthe videos and listen to the
podcast.
And I had such a wonderful timetalking to Asha.
So, let's go to my interviewwith Asha.
Hi, Asha.
Thank you so much for beinghere today.
Asha (03:45):
Hello Jennie!
It’s great to be here with you. I'm so glad we are finally connecting. I feel like we’ve been circling each other and trying to connect on various things, and so glad we’re finally making it happen.
Yes.
Before we get started, so you want to introduce yourself and include your pronouns?
My name is Asha Dahya. My pronouns are she/her. I am based in Los Angeles. As you can probably tell from my accent, I am originally from Australia. I am a filmmaker, andunder that banner, I'm
predominantly a producer andwriter, but I've done some
directing.
I'm the creator, executiveproducer, and co-host of a
podcast series called Green TideRising, which is about Latin
America's Green Wave movementand what the US can learn from
it.
I'm the director and producerof an award-winning short
(04:06):
documentary called Someone YouKnow.
It's an animated film focusingon three women's experiences
getting a later abortion in theUnited States before the Dobbs
decision.
And it kind of shows how hardIt has always been to access
later abortion, especially forthe most vulnerable folks.
And I also run a digitalfeminist magazine called Girl
(04:29):
Talk HQ.
And from that, I got a bookdeal.
So there's a spinoff book fromthe blog.
It's called Today's WonderWomen: Everyday Superheroes Who
Are Changing the World.
So yeah, I'm a media creator.
I'm a writer.
I'm a storyteller.
I think that's probably thebest encapsulation of who I am
and what I do.
Jennie (04:50):
So glad you brought up your short film because we are
in the middle of a six-monthseries on abortion later in
pregnancy.
So, so great to hear that.
Asha (04:59):
Yes, and thank you for doing that series.
It's so important.
I feel like there's been toomuch hesitation, even from
left-leaning folks, to talkabout this issue, but now we are
in the moment we're in, and weneed to have that education,
that empathy, and storytellingaround it, too.
I think first-personstorytelling...
(05:20):
you can never go wrong with it.
You know, you can't denysomeone's lived experience
having to navigate those veryreal and very harmful barriers.
So thank you for doing thatseries.
And I'm glad that we get tohave these conversations.
Jennie (05:34):
Yeah, no, I totally agree on the storytelling.
So, it's so great to havesomeone who does whose job is
basically like you saidstorytelling.
Asha (05:41):
Yeah.
Jennie (05:42):
So, I'm so excited to have you on today we're going to
talk about Green Tide Risingwhich I was telling you right as
we got on, like, I had justbeen listening to it before I
signed on so I've just had yourvoice in my head for all morning
as we were getting as I wasgetting ready for this.
Do you want to tell us a littlebit about what inspired you to
make that?
Asha (06:02):
Yeah, so, it kind of started very differently to what
it is now.
I have been wanting to, forabout eight years, I wanted to
make a docu-series aboutabortion in the United States
originally.
And that kind of stemmed frommy experience growing up
(06:22):
conservative evangelical.
I grew up in Australia and it'svery different, the landscape
is very different there.
It's not as politicallyintertwined as it is here.
When I moved here in 2008, Ijoined a very large conservative
evangelical, or I'll sayevangelical church in Los
Angeles, not understanding thesocio-political ties.
(06:44):
Of course, 2008 was an electionyear.
It was the election of thefirst Black president in this
country.
And I very quickly learnedpolitics around racism, around
gender identity, around all thethings that are very closely
intertwined with abortion rightstoday.
(07:05):
And one of the things that Irealized was this idea of being
quote unquote "pro-life," andI'm hesitant to use that term,
but that's what I had quicklylearned that this is what it
means to be evangelical in theUnited States.
But what I also saw over theyears was that, although there
were people on stage, mostlymen, some women, talking about
(07:29):
how they are very againstabortion, all those kind of
things, behind closed doors andin the quiet conversations, away
from the pulpit, people arehaving abortions and they're
going to the clinics that theyclaim to not support.
There was a huge disconnectthere for me and I wanted to
explore that in my very curiousstorytelling nature.
(07:52):
So, I went on this journeybefore, funnily enough, before I
had kids to really figure out,okay, so what are the...
abortion is not its own silo.
It is interconnected to so manyaspects of our lives and I was
looking at birth control,maternal mortality, sex
education and just all thethings that we see at healthcare
access in the United States.
(08:14):
And then I had two kids andthen different elections
happened in 2016, as we allknow, and the pandemic.
And so, I had to put that ideaaside.
As, you know, this happens alot in filmmaking and
storytelling, you know, you comeup with an idea, you try to
pitch it, you get a whole bunchof no's and you think, all
right, fine, it's done, it'sdone.
(08:35):
Then in 2021, I met a womannamed Ximena Casas Isaza.
She's originally from Colombia.
She is a researcher and afeminist lawyer.
She's based in Spain now.
And I met her through WEC,which is an organization that
does a lot of great work inLatin America and here in the
(08:55):
U.S.
And my friend Paola introducedme to Ximena and said, oh,
because I told her about thisseries that I had an idea about.
And I said, oh, Latin Americais doing some really interesting
things.
She said, talk to Ximena.
Ximena is doing a first of itskind research tracking the
impact of abortioncriminalization across the
(09:17):
region, which hadn't been donebefore.
There have been a fewindividual countries in Latin
America that had tracked dataand written reports, some of
which Ximena had done.
She was doing a regional reportlooking at the criminalization
and also looking at how abortionmedication was, how that was
impacting the landscape andchanging the way people access
(09:40):
abortion and the power shift anddynamic, you know, it kind of
took away that gatekeeping in alot of ways.
So, as I got talking with her,this is 2021, as she's talking
and she's talking about the,telling me the countries she's
focusing on, I thought thiswould be a great docu-series.
This is a podcast or somethinglike what you're doing is really
fascinating.
And this was, of course, abouta year before the Dobbs decision
(10:05):
overturning Roe v.
Wade.
And then by 2022, her projectwas- her research was kind of
moving along.
She'd onboarded partners andfunders.
Then Dobbs happened in June2022, and I thought we need to
do something about this nowbecause in 2021, Mexico's
(10:26):
Supreme Court made a reallyinteresting ruling, basically
the opposite of what we'reseeing in the United States.
Just after the Dobbs decision,Colombia, their Supreme Court,
made the complete opposite ofthe Dobbs decision.
And now they have one of themost progressive abortion laws
in the world, decriminalizedabortion as well.
(10:48):
And it became very apparentthat our...
compadres, compatriots in theGlobal South are doing some
really exciting, innovative anddifferent strategic work around
abortion access.
And what are the things that wecan highlight?
Because we're so used to,especially in the Global North,
(11:08):
having this idea of "Americanexceptionalism." So then, you
know, cut to 2024, I think, puttogether a team of producers and
we had originally thought,okay, we want to maybe pitch it
to a podcast company, you know,like a Serial [Productions] or
Wondery or Spotify.
We'd put a package together.
And we got the usual, well,this is very important, but we
(11:31):
don't have the budget for it.
It's not right for us.
And then we just got to thepoint where we said, we need to
find the funding ourselves andmake this happen because it's
too urgent and too important towait around for someone else to
give us permission.
So we did that.
We found funding through grantsand different foundations.
And in a very, very short, Iwould say 14 or 15 weeks, we did
(11:54):
fundraising, hiring all ourteam and production and all the
things all in one and we wantedto the idea was to release all
eight episodes in the lead up tothe presidential election in
2024 which we did and so it wasa mad rush to get it all
together but yeah it was but wedid it.
(12:15):
So, Green Tide Rising, that'show it all came together.
Jennie (12:17):
First of all, it is great.
I really, I've enjoyedlistening to it.
I watched the videos first andthen went and I was listening to
the full episodes.
I haven't made it all throughall eight because I started a
little too late but that's okay,I will finish it.
Okay, so y'all you shoulddefinitely check it out but also
if you want more on some ofthat like legal wrangling in the
(12:41):
cases that Asha was talkingabout we talked to the O'Neill
[Institute for National and Global Health Law]and some of their partners in
Latin America and did some realdeep dive episodes on that so
we'll make sure to include thosein our show notes as well but
also the Green Tide Rising has alot more information about like
the specific countries and whathappened I have to say I'm
(13:02):
really connected to like yourfirst part where you're talking
about your upbringing.
We were talking before abouthow I was raised Catholic.
I went to Catholic school K-8.
I had sex ed from a nun whichagain that's like heavily air
quoted "sex ed" because it wasvery much the like...
Asha (13:18):
It almost sounds like an oxymoron, right?
Jennie (13:21):
Yeah, very much like, you know, the Mean Girls version
of like, you have sex, you getthis horrible disease and you're
going to die.
I mean, maybe that was alsojust '90s sex ed, but like, in
particular from a nun, thatwas...
And I think in many ways, like,I was lucky.
Like, I think the church I wentto was never, I don't remember
(13:43):
hearing it from the pulpit andlike having like that heavy,
like lots of conversation aboutit.
Maybe I just don't remember itand blocked it out.
'Cause I was like, no, but, butI don't remember that
happening, but I do rememberlike through like sex ed and
things like that, like gettingall of the, like, negative,
anti-abortion and like, I wasthinking that when you were
(14:07):
talking in your video, just likethe, the shame around sex and
like, and that just like, itsticks to you.
Like, it's one of those thingsthat as I have evolved all of my
thinking and have broken somany of those shackles, like,
some of that just like is reallyhard to get rid of.
Yeah, and so that's one of thethings, like, I always am very
passionate about talking aboutcomprehensive inclusive sex ed
(14:30):
and making sure you are getting-
...medically accurate...
Yes! Like, it is so important for just a whole host
of reasons.
Asha (14:38):
Yeah, yeah, I agree and I really love having more
conversations that connect thosepeople who have those religious
backgrounds and we did that inGreen Tide Rising, we spoke to
a couple of folks from Catholicsfor the Right to Decide in
Argentina and in Mexico.
And it was so great to heartheir perspective.
And there's such a rich historyof activism and social justice
(15:00):
with these progressive Catholicorganizations.
And it was just reallyheartwarming to hear that.
And I hope people get someencouragement out of that, that
just because you are a person offaith, that doesn't necessarily
mean you have to beanti-abortion or anti-sex ed or
not sex positive.
You know, it's- not all that...is said from the pulpit.
Jennie (15:22):
Okay.
So I really, like I said, Ireally enjoyed this series.
It offers like this greatcounterpoint to, like, what we
were experiencing in the U.S.
as we saw abortion continuingto get more and more restricted
at the state level, all the wayup to Dobbs that the green wave
movement was like this great,uh, counterbalance to look at
(15:42):
and see how the U.S.
was really just out of stepwith what was happening
globally.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about the Green Wave
movement?
It's been a little bit sincewe've talked about it on the
podcast.
So, maybe like start like withthe real simple, like what is
the Green Wave movement?
Asha (15:56):
Yeah.
So, the Green Wave and episodeone, we talk about where the
color green came from, where thebandana came from.
So I'd recommend listening tothat, but essentially it began
in 2018 in Argentina and it wasformed.
It kind of was an offshoot ofan anti-femicide movement where
the women and activists andpeople were going to the streets
(16:19):
and protesting against genderviolence and then they realized
that to be able to live free andsafely you had to have bodily
autonomy and that starts withbeing able to control all
decisions about your bodyincluding pregnancy, maternal
health care, abortion, all ofthose things.
(16:39):
And so abortion became a verykey issue for them because if
you have access to abortionthere is this idea that it's
because it is connected tomaternal health care all
different types of health caresex education all the different
socio-economic, like, paid leavematernity leave all the things
that we need to live anautonomous life that they needed
(17:01):
to fight for abortion and alsoprior to Argentina legalizing it
death from unsafe abortion wasone of the leading causes of
maternal mortality So there wasan urgency around this issue.
So, they took to the streets,and it wasn't just about
changing the law.
It was about changing theculture first.
They knew that if we can havean army of people in the
(17:26):
streets, in colleges, ontelevision, in lounge rooms, in
places of worship and faith, andwe change the culture first, by
the time it gets to Congress,which it did in December 2020,
then this is an undeniablemovement.
that they have to pay attentionto.
And that is exactly whathappened.
I mean, there were politicianswho were on the fence over
(17:47):
anti-abortion, but they saw thechange that was happening
culturally.
So in 2020, they legalized itup to 14 weeks.
They did not decriminalize it,but that doesn't mean they're
done.
So then Argentina happened in2020.
Mexico saw what was happening.
So many countries across theregion saw what was happening
and thought this was like a whatdo you guess, like a signal
(18:10):
flare being sent up across theregion.
Like, we can do this.
Let's go to the streets.
We are everyday people.
We don't have to have a ton ofmoney or status or celebrity or
power.
This is what we need.
It's a people-powered movement.
So yeah, that's kind of how itspread.
And it's still spreading.
And the interesting thing aboutLatin America is that every
country has its own set or tiersof abortion restrictions or
(18:35):
abortion laws, similar to theway or comparable to the way the
United States, every state isnow its own country in a sense.
So, it's a really interestingcomparison and there's a lot we
can learn how Latin America, theactivists down there, have had
different approaches fordifferent countries, but there's
this overarching sense of weare a wave of people.
(18:58):
We are going to make changehappen.
We're not going to wait for theSupreme Court or the President
or the Prime Minister or theleaders to do this for us.
We're going to show them whatwe need and what we want.
So the Green Wave is, it's notone leader, it's everyone and
everyone has a role to play.
And that's what I love aboutthe movement.
It's decentralized.
There's a place for everyone tojoin and do their part and make
(19:21):
change happen.
So I get goosebumps talkingabout it because it's really
cool.
So stop me from talking,Jennie, because I could go on.
Jennie (19:28):
No, it's so energizing.
And just the green bandanasjust became so...
ubiquitous.
They were everywhere, like, yousaw them in front of the
Supreme Court-
Asha (19:40):
Yeah.
Jennie (19:41):
-around Dobbs, like they just they have really come from
Latin America and you see themin the U.S.
now and just-
You see them in Iran, they'rebeing used in parts of Africa
it's it's everywhere It's reallycool.
Can I also mention somethingabout the green bandana?
Because in the US, there'salways this binary paradigm of
(20:02):
"pro-life" versus "pro-choice."And we interviewed Marta Alanis,
who was the founder ofCatholics for the Right to
Decide in Argentina.
And she is the one who createdthe green bandana.
And she was saying how...
you know, why we chose green,because it's the color of life.
It's trees, it's nature, it'sour world.
And so they've kind of takenthis weaponized term and really
(20:24):
reclaimed it and said, we arethe ones advocating for life
with this symbol, which has nowbecome global.
And I just really love thatbecause it's not such a binary
thing.
It's, we are fighting for thelives of people to make their
own decisions.
And I love that they did that.
Well, right.
And it's always been like,"pro-life" has been more about
pro-birth,pro- making you have the baby.
(20:45):
And the pro-abortion space has been more about empowering you to live the life you want, and healthy, and, like, having access to the health care you need. And it is so much bigger, especially as you get into Reproductive Justice. It is the real- having that safe, healthy life and being able to make the decisions you need to raise your kids in that safe, healthy environment, or not have kids orwhatever you need to be
(21:18):
supported and have that fullrange of bodily autonomy.
Asha (21:21):
Yeah.
And when you mentionedReproductive Justice, I mean,
it's such a completely differentparadigm to when you think of
reproductive rights or thepro-choice, which is a very,
very narrow political slogan.
But what Latin America has donewas said, this is not a legal
movement.
This is a human rightsmovement.
And I think even just thatlittle shift in mentality and
(21:43):
completely opens it up when youlook at the Reproductive Justice
movement started by Black womenin the United States in the
early 90s they were like legalrights mean nothing in name only
when we can't access it.
We need to be able to raise ifwe want to have a family, how
can we raise that family insafety, in community, when we
don't have access to theseresources?
(22:03):
And so, I think just thatshifting of our perspective is
really, really key to how wefight for abortion today and
going forward.
Jennie (22:12):
Right.
And legal doesn't matter if Ican't access it, right?
If there is not a clinic nearme and I need to take time off
work and drive or have to travelto get it or I can't afford it
or any number of barriers we'vetalked about over the years on
this podcast, right?
So, legal, as we've alwayssaid, has never been enough.
(22:33):
We needed to make it actuallyaccessible and the full range of
things that access means.
There are so many thingsencompassed in that small word
of access that are important tomaking sure people are able to
make the decisions they want ina way that is supported.
Asha (22:50):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Jennie (22:52):
So, I really loved thinking about what can U.S.
advocates, like what can welearn from the Green Wave
movement?
Because I really do think theyhave been so successful and not
just in getting change, but likebuilding this real movement.
And I would love to see likeways we can bring that here.
I mean, we've, I think, youknow, Dobbs obviously lit off an
(23:15):
even bigger movement than therealready was, but I still think
there as always should belessons that can be learned from
other places.
Asha (23:23):
Yeah.
I think the first thing that weas American audiences, people
living in the United Statesprimarily, need to understand,
and Lourdes from PregnancyJustice really outlined this
really well in episode eight, isthat we need to let go of this
idea of American exceptionalism,that we are the leader on human
(23:44):
rights, and clearly we are notthat.
And we need to kind of let goof our pride a little bit and
understand that there are peoplein the Global South who are
doing things that we should betaking note of.
You know, we're not the, youknow, the white savior mentality
where we need to shift that,And so that's the first thing I
would start with, interrogatingourselves.
(24:04):
What I love about the GreenWave, and Ximena talks about
this really well, and herresearch, by the way, you
mentioned the O'Neill Institute,she's working with the O'Neill
Institute on this, she talksabout this idea of social
decriminalization.
So, we hear the worddecriminalization where abortion
is decriminalized, meaning thatit's typically taken out of the
(24:26):
criminal code in a state or acountry and put into the health
code where instead of criminalpenalties or calling the
authorities, now it's just underthe purview of the healthcare
realm.
But again, that's just a rightin name only or on paper only if
you can't access it.
So this idea of socialdecriminalization, which the
(24:48):
Green Wave has perfected sowell, well, maybe not perfected,
but that's what they'recentered around.
is that it's not just aboutwhat happens in the courts of
law.
It's what are you doing in yourcommunities?
How are we educating ourselves?
How are we using our skills andresources now to advocate for
this?
(25:08):
And I'll give one example fromthe series.
In episode two, we focused onEl Salvador, which has a
complete abortion ban, noexceptions.
We interviewed a woman namedTeodora Vásquez, who was in
prison for 11 years for anobstetric emergency.
And I won't go into too muchdetails because we do in the
episode, we put a triggerwarning and there's, you know,
(25:30):
there's, it was a very horrificexperience for her, but she is
now a huge activist and what shehas done in a country.
Oh,hello. [Jennie's cat makes an appearance]
Jennie (25:41):
Go lay down . [speaking to cat] Thank you.
Asha (25:43):
What Teodora has done in El Salvador is nothing short of
inspiring because she came outof, by the way, she was a mother
when she went into the prison,she had a child at home.
What [she] needed [was] medicalattention but instead they
called the authorities that isso dangerous and so harmful and
so stigmatizing in that veryvulnerable situation.
(26:06):
Nevertheless, she survived andshe did her time in prison and
after she came out she wasoffered amnesty by a number of
countries to say come and livehere you'll be safe you'll be
free.
But she was like, no, I don'twant other women in El Salvador
to go through what I wentthrough.
So, she started a nonprofitorganization called Mujeres
(26:30):
Libres, where she educates womenabout their rights, educates
them about bodily autonomy,about abortion, about all the
healthcare things that theyshould have a right to access.
And it sounds like not a bigdeal, but in a country where all
abortion is banned and To starta legally recognized entity,
(26:52):
legally recognized by thegovernment, where they advocate
for abortion, for her was a bigdeal because they know what this
organization is.
But even though they can'taccess abortion, they're finding
ways to help each other on acommunity level.
So, I think that's one of thekey lessons here in the United
States that we're seeing moreadvocates for.
(27:13):
point toward is what are thecommunity solutions?
What can we do with the peoplein our own networks?
Because we might not be able torely on the laws or all the
clinics in our...
area might be closed becausethey've been defunded or there's
just no access to any sort ofcare.
So how do we help each other?
And I think that's whatTheodora really exemplified.
(27:35):
And just that education pieceof if the authorities come to
your door or your place of work,which is what happened to her,
and they start questioning youabout your pregnancy, what are
your rights and how do you standup for yourself?
And we're seeing that todayacross the US, not just with
pregnancies, but with immigrantcommunities.
What are your rights how do youstand up for yourself how does
(27:56):
the community come in and standup for you and it sounds like
it's not really abortion relatedbut it really is because it's
all about how we have thoseindividual freedoms and rights
to make the best decisions forourselves without interference
from those outside entities andso...
yeah, the socialdecriminalization aspect is
(28:17):
really key.
And then we had some other coolexamples, like in Colombia,
they, you know, they didn't justprotest outside the courts.
They did reggaeton dances.
They used art and music andcreativity to really-
Jennie (28:28):
They're trying to steal our joy.
Asha (28:30):
Right.
Jennie (28:30):
So, like, bringing the joy is so important.
Asha (28:34):
Yes, exactly.
You know, why not use comedy?
Like, what Liz Winstead doeswith abortion access.
I mean, that's the kind ofstuff that we, that is social
decriminalization right therebecause it's breaking down the
stigma internally withinourselves, then in our
communities, then we can go toget, you know, the lawyers and
all those really, really smartpeople to go to the courts and
(28:54):
make the arguments for us.
So, yeah, it's every aspect.
It's got to be socialfirst, though.
Jennie (29:00):
Yeah, and getting the information out there is so
important.
You know, I've talked about onthe podcast the importance of,
like, conversations with yourfriends.
And I don't mean, like, having,jumping into, like, the hostile
conversation.
Like, you don't need to dothat.
But, like...
unless that's something youwant to do.
Like, if that's, if that's yourjam, I'm an introvert.
Asha (29:18):
Coming from an evangelical Christian background where it's
like, do you know Jesus?
It's like, don't do that.
Jennie (29:22):
I'm like an introvert who was an only child.
So, like, confrontation is notmy jam, but it may be yours.
So, like.
Asha (29:29):
Each to their own.
Jennie (29:29):
Do it, do it.
Exactly.
But making yourself a resourcewhere people know
that they can go to you for information. And I’ve said this a lot (29:35):
this does not mean you need to know all the things because you can’t. But you know the resources to point them to where they can get trusted information. It’s so important to be that person in your friend group, in your broader circle.
Oh, you need access toservices?
(29:58):
Great.
Well, go to I Need an A.
This will give you the closestclinic.
It'll give you all of thethings you need to think about,
things like that.
Making yourself the resourcefor trusted information is also
so
Asha (30:13):
Yeah.
I think the way that I thinkabout it is, or the way that I
kind of describe it is that Inthe filmmaking world, there's
this saying, there is no shinywhite knight that's going to
come and give you all the moneyand the funding.
And it's the same with everydaylife.
There is no saviour that'sgoing to ride in on their horse
and come and save [us].
"We are the ones that we havebeen waiting for," as the famous
(30:34):
June Jordan poem says.
What can we give to each other?
Even if it's something like...
We talked to activist PaulaMendoza in episode seven, and
she talks about her immigrantcommunity in New York, where
there was a young immigrant girlnamed Romina, and she made a
film about it, where she neededto have an abortion.
People showed up with food,with blankets, with medication,
(30:59):
with just really surrounded herwith all the things that she
knew she may not have been ableto get from going to a clinic.
And so just all those thingslike we can be the ones that we
need for each other is just areally...
It feels empowering becauseit's like, oh, we can do
something and it feels small andinsignificant, but it really
isn't because it's thoseeveryday actions that
(31:21):
collectively make a way, really.
Jennie (31:23):
That's one thing.
So you just made me think ofsomething I did recently that is
one of those things that bringsme joy.
I forget about it every once ina while and then I remember it.
I'm like, oh, I need to go dothis.
You mentioned Abortion AccessFront.
They have a great page on theirwebsite where it has clinics
wishlists, Amazon wishlists,where you can get things that
they need and whether it's planB or coloring books for people
(31:47):
who are like just after theircare.
And I just last week was onthere and like ordering a number
of things for a couple ofclinics.
And like, it's just somethinglike little things that like,
this is going to bring joy tosomebody else or make their day
a little easier.
I know it's one of those thingsthat always makes me happy and
I forget about it.
So, might as well take a minuteto like remind people it's out
(32:09):
there.
Asha (32:09):
Yeah, it's important.
And it is, you know, It'simportant to bring back that joy
because there are so manyserious aspects to it that we
want people to feel good andempowered and surrounded by good
people.
So bring the joy wherever wecan.
Jennie (32:24):
I think the other thing I was thinking about, and we
don't have to dwell on thisbecause this is so like outside
of this exact series, but itmade me think about the current
moment we're in.
And so we're talking aboutaccess to abortion in Latin
America, but it just makes methink of the tax on USAID.
USAID officially no longerexists.
(32:45):
There's no funding right nowfor sexual and reproductive
health.
And US was the largest funderfor sexual and reproductive
health services.
This is going to have hugeripple effects in countries all
over the world.
And that's just something that,one, because it's part of my
day-to-day work I have beensitting with, but listening to
(33:07):
all of the inspiring storiesthat were shared in your
podcast, it just was alsositting with me in that space.
Asha (33:15):
It is devastating and really sad because...
There's this dominant narrativefrom the current administration
where they're like, we don'twant to fund this and fund that.
But it's like, the way that Isee it and the way that we
really encapsulated it in ourepisode on Brazil is: what
responsibility does a globalsuperpower have?
(33:36):
That's Brazil and that's theUnited States.
And we have always consideredourselves, you know, since the
end of World War II, like we arethe leader on human rights.
We champion the small guy.
We help people like that's whowe are.
And beyond that, it's, thedevastating impact of pulling
funding because of a politicaland ideological thought.
(33:59):
Like, who are the everydaypeople who are going to be
impacted?
They are just ordinaryfamilies, young folks,
especially young folks are themost impacted by abortion bans
and restrictions.
And so, I think it's somethingthat we need to think about.
You know, we put so much moneyinto, against our will, into our
military and into these wars,but yet it's, the idea of
(34:22):
helping to fund health clinicsaround the world where they need
some funding to do that, that'sseen, you know, why are people
against that?
And so, I think it's reallyimportant to hold our leaders'
feet to the fire, no matter whoyou vote for, but especially
people who vote Democrat, youknow, make sure we push our
(34:44):
leaders forward to understandingthat it's not enough to virtue
signal.
We have to really stand up forthe most marginalized folks in
our country and across the globebecause that's our
responsibility.
And whether we like it or not,that's what a global superpower
is supposed to do, I believeanyway.
Jennie (35:03):
Okay, so...
I feel like we've alreadytalked about this quite a bit,
but we always end the podcasttalking about what can our
audience do and how can they getinvolved?
So I think we already hit on alot of it, but I'll just ask it
again.
What ways can the people whoare listening to this take
action?
Asha (35:22):
So, at the end of each episode in Green Tide Rising, we
had our featured expert,Ximena, give us bite-sized
pieces of calls to action, whichyou can find if you go to
greentiderising.com.
We have a list of all theorganizations we featured.
There are some in the US aswell and some in Latin America.
There's things like donating.
(35:42):
There are things like sharinginformation on social media.
And beyond that, the biggestcall to action that I would
recommend and that Ximena sharedwith us is having those
conversations with people inyour life.
When you sit down at theproverbial kitchen table or if
you're in your Instagram DMs andyou're chatting over a bit of
(36:03):
content with someone and it'srelated to abortion, you know,
what are those conversations andwhat are you sharing?
I think that first personstorytelling you know, like we
said, is so important.
But yeah, I would encourage youto go to Green Tide Rising.
There are a ton of other waysthat you can take action.
And each organization that wefeatured, like Pregnancy
Justice, like, Catholics for theRight to Decide, and so many
(36:26):
others have their own ways thatthey encourage people to get
involved.
And honestly, one of the thingsthat Ximena says is that the
color green or the Green Wave,there are many different tones
of green, meaning each of us hasour own skill set that we can
bring.
And that's what the green waveencourages people to do.
And that's how we can bring theGreen Wave to the US.
(36:47):
What are you doing in yourstudent union?
What are you doing with yourfamily at home?
What are you doing in yourplace of work?
What are you doing when youtalk to colleagues on Zoom or
Slack or whatever it is?
There are so many ways that wecan fight for abortion access,
champion bodily autonomy.
That can go beyond the votingaspect or you know marching in
(37:09):
the streets if you're not ableto do that and or don't- if you
can't donate.
So, be creative and finddifferent ways.
It doesn't just have to be onespecific call to action.
I hope that makes sense, I kindof rambled a bit.
Jennie (37:21):
No, huge fan of that.
I'm a person who always feelslike I need to do all the things
and like that is not healthy orhelpful, right?
Like, nobody is served if Iburn myself out.
So, like, find the places whereyou can contribute and I mean
that not in a financial way Imean that in whatever way that
you feel like you want to engagewith this movement there are so
(37:44):
many things happening right nowyeah so many different places
you could get involved just findthe one you're passionate about
yeah and and help in the wayyou can.
Asha (37:55):
Yeah, like maybe you're a student who's really good at
Canva and you can make graphicsand posters for your local
organization that they can useand print out at their events or
for their social media.
It can be things like that,organizing a dance party where
you talk about sex education andwhich clinics people can go to
in the area.
Use whatever you have and makeit joyful because it doesn't
(38:17):
have to be awful.
Jennie (38:19):
Asha, if people want to get involved with you and your
work and Green Tide Rising, howcan they get engaged?
Asha (38:26):
Yeah, so you can go to greentiderising.com, all the
links, all the episodes,transcripts, resources, links to
organizations are there.
Also, we are currently in theearly phases of launching an
educational impact campaignwhere we're putting together a
robust discussion guide andpackaging our audio and video
materials so that colleges andacademic institutions and
(38:49):
universities across the UnitedStates can kind of take our
materials, incorporate it intovarious disciplines.
We're targeting women andgender studies, journalism,
history, sociology, poli-sci andlaw schools.
And if you are a professor oryou're a faculty member and
would love to incorporate LatinAmerica's Green Wave into your
(39:11):
curriculum for 2025-26, please, please get in touch.
We're not charging anyone.
We just really want to get themessage out there and feel this
is the right time to do that.
And if I can, I would love toplug my short documentary,
Someone You Know, if anyonewould like to organize a
screening or discussion, speakto some of the women from the
film or the experts, you just goto someoneyouknowdoc.com.
(39:35):
I love working withorganizations and sharing the
film and talking about laterabortion.
We need to do that.
So if you would like to dothat, please hit me up.
Jennie (39:43):
Well, Asha, thank you so much for being here.
It was a real pleasure tofinally get to talk to you.
Yeah, you too.
Thanks for having me.
Okay, y'all.
I had a great time talking toAsha and y'all, I cannot
recommend her series Green TideRising enough and her short
documentary called Someone YouKnow as well.
We'll make sure to have linksto all of the things in our show
notes so that you can checkthem out.
(40:05):
Otherwise, I will see everybodynext week.
Thanks.
If you have any questions,comments or topics you would
like us to cover, always feelfree to shoot me an email.
You can reach me at jennie@reprosfightback.com or you can
find us on social media.
We're at rePROs Fight Back onFacebook and Twitter or
(40:25):
@reprosfb on Instagram.
If you love our podcast andwant to make sure more people
find it, take the time to rateand review us on your favorite
podcast platform.
Or if you want to make sure tosupport the podcast, you can
also donate on our website atreprosfightback.com.
Thanks all!
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