January 14, 2025 • 31 mins
As we're starting to see reports around WA about bird flu, we decided to tackle this subject with some discussion about the facts- as well as our projections and thoughts.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
jme (00:00):
Hi, I'm Jme.
Pate (00:00):
I'm Pate.,
jme (00:01):
and we are Motley Zoo.
Pate (00:03):
This is our podcast, Rescue Shit.
jme (00:09):
Today we're going to talk about bird flu, and we are going
to, unlike our evergreen contentof other things, we are going to
talk about the fact that this isJanuary of 2025, um, because
these have some relevant factsand statistics, which will be
changing over the coming monthsand the situation's gonna
(00:29):
change...
Hopefully not for the worst, butthis is January of 2025, when we
are talking about bird flu, theH5N1 virus.
Pate (00:38):
Right, and the reason why we're bringing it up is because
of the worry of cats.
So, trap, neuter, release cats.
It's a lot of cats that we workwith are strays.
They're out there.
We work with some people that doTNR and the ones that are not
(01:01):
crazy and are rehomeable oradoptable, they do reach out to
us.
And so it is something in theback of our minds to be
concerned about, especiallyafter what happened in Shelton.
jme (01:15):
Yes.
So what we're referring to is a,big cat sanctuary.
Cougars, tigers, lynx, bobcats,those kinds of things.
Pate (01:25):
Was there a caracal?
jme (01:26):
Caracal?
Yeah,
Pate (01:27):
and there was a Serval too,
jme (01:29):
mm hmm.
They had about 40 cats and theyhad to euthanize half of them.
Yeah, so 20.
Yeah, 20, 20 big cats did notmake it, because they were
affected with bird flu.
Pate (01:40):
They have 17 left.
jme (01:42):
Their vet came when the first cat got sick and thought
the cat had cancer.
Then the vet came when thesecond cat got sick and the vet
said the cat had cancer.
At that point though, the statewas called in.
I'm not sure why or thecircumstances surrounding that,
but it quickly became apparentthat it was bird flu,and they
(02:04):
believe that it probably came infrom Tainted Food.
So this is the bigger problembecause even if we're not
talking about TNR, we're talkingabout animals like domestic
cats, one being in dangeroutside, which, you know, we've
been singing that song for along time, Don't Let Them Out.
But also because there wasactually a recall of some pet
(02:27):
food, which we're going to tellyou about.
It was the two pound bag offeline turkey, Northwest
Naturals.
And this had the best use dateof May 21, 26 through 6, 23, 26.
And they actually had to recallthe cat food because a domestic
(02:49):
house cat died from it beingtainted.
we're concerned for TNR cats,for all the outdoor feral
communities, and especially howpeople may handle what's going
to happen if they do start tobecome a vector for this, and
become a more dangerous thingfor humans to encounter.
(03:11):
So indoor outdoor cats are indanger.
Not only of catching the birdsand eating them or anything like
that, but The the droppings andthe water they could drink from
a puddle And this is where youknow, our concern also starts to
spread to dogs.
There have been no confirmedcases This is this is that part
(03:34):
is Speculation, and I'm nottrying to be, um, inflammatory
or, you know, whatever, um, butit has spread to cattle.
Pate (03:43):
Right.
Well, yeah, dairy.
The dairy in California.
jme (03:47):
Yes.
So 645 dairies in Californiahave had, infected cattle with
bird flu.
Pate (03:57):
Yep.
jme (03:58):
So how many of that, because even in dairy farms.
You still eat the baby boys andthe old ones go to the
slaughterhouse.
So how many of them Ended up inpet food,
Pate (04:13):
our food.
jme (04:14):
Our food.
Pate (04:15):
Well, I don't eat cow.
jme (04:16):
Well, even the milk.
Even the milk.
The milk can be tainted.
Pate (04:20):
But I'm lactose intolerant.
You have to worry about themilk.
jme (04:23):
I don't have to worry about milk.
I don't like milk.
I don't know,
Pate (04:26):
but cheese, right?
Like, does it affect cheese?
jme (04:28):
Cheese?
I'm gonna have to give upcheese.
Okay, so I am vegetarian and Ido eat eggs and I don't drink
milk, but I do eat cheese.
And then Pate...
Pate (04:40):
Can't have milk,
jme (04:41):
can't have milk, and she's vegetarian, mostly vegan really,
because she can't have milk,
Pate (04:46):
can't have milk.
jme (04:47):
And, I'm thinking this might be a good time to try
being a vegetarian, or at least,at least,
Pate (04:52):
you are a vegetarian.
jme (04:53):
No, for people, our audience.
Pate (04:55):
Oh, oh, oh.
jme (04:56):
To not eat chicken, and not eat chicken.
Pate (04:59):
Poultry, because yeah, the recall was turkey, so any kind
of poultry.
jme (05:03):
That's true, turkey.
We're not gonna tell you what todo, but.
Pate (05:07):
Remember mad cow disease?
jme (05:08):
That is why I started becoming a vegetarian.
It was just so gross to me, Ididn't really think I was gonna
get mad cow disease.
Pate (05:15):
Yeah, so it's mad cow disease, and then now it's H5N1.
jme (05:19):
Which can kill you.
Pate (05:20):
Cow disease.
jme (05:21):
It's not as far fetched as that, because on January 6th of
2025, so just a few days ago,the first human death From H5N1
occurred in Maryland.
Pate (05:36):
Okay, and we're not trying to be
jme (05:39):
We are not trying to be inflammatory or scare anybody.
Pate (05:42):
Yeah, there's no like fear mongering going on right now.
jme (05:45):
No, we're just discussing what's going on and how You may
think it doesn't relate to youor your pets, but how it really
can and it really does.
We found out that in oursurrounding area, Snohomish
County actually has the highestnumber of Birds that were
infected in Washington with 10,King County with 9, 53 total
(06:09):
birds, but you know, 10
Pate (06:12):
flocks.
jme (06:13):
Yeah, 10 being the highest and that's 15 minutes down the
road.
Pate (06:17):
No, it's Snohomish County.
Like we're in Snohomish County.
jme (06:20):
Oh, you're right.
Pate (06:22):
Yeah.
King County was nine.
Snohomish County is ten.
jme (06:25):
You're right.
There is a town of Snohomishtoo.
And that's what I was thinking.
So there's a low risk to humansif you are not handling dead
birds.
Pate (06:34):
Don't touch your face when you handle your chickens.
jme (06:35):
And don't kiss your chickens, unfortunately.
And there has been no human tohuman, contact, but keeps
seemingly spreading to newmammals.
Pate (06:45):
Right?
And then there was a case of twocougars in Clallam, Clallam,
jme (06:51):
Clallam,
Pate (06:52):
yeah, I can't say it.
jme (06:53):
Clallam County
Pate (06:53):
Yeah, so that, I mean,
jme (06:55):
two wild cougars,
Pate (06:56):
two wild cougars, right?
So that your concern there, itgoes back to Shelton where they
think, yes, it was tainted meat,but It could also have been wild
bird droppings.
And obviously it's not tainted.
Well, I shouldn't say it's nottainted meat.
Cause it could have been atainted,
jme (07:13):
a tainted chicken that they ate,
Pate (07:15):
a chicken that they ate or a wild bird that they ate.
Right.
Yeah.
So it doesn't necessarily needto be in the environment for
them, like with droppings andthe water and stuff like that.
They could have eaten that bird.
But people who let their catsout and the colonies out there,
the feral colonies out there,they're eating birds.
jme (07:35):
Yep.
Pate (07:35):
You know?
jme (07:36):
Well, and also they've been telling hunters to be aware.
I mean, like if you're a duckhunter you have to be concerned.
And I mean, I don't know if itcan spread to cattle.
Can it spread to deer?
Probably.
They don't eat the meat, butwhat if they're eating and
drinking from puddles that haveyou know, bird droppings in
(07:57):
them.
Pate (07:57):
Yeah, how did the dairy cattle in California get avian?
jme (08:00):
Probably their, their grain, their food.
Pate (08:02):
Are they feeding them chickens?
jme (08:04):
Well, no, but like, what if the grain was near contaminated
chickens?
So the food, maybe, I, I don'tknow if it can live in, you
know, whatever, um, that'ssomething that we're going to
have to figure out, but, butprobably maybe people were the
vector.
They went from contaminatedchickens to the dairy farm and
then, and then, you know,infected the cattle.
(08:26):
Human vectors is a factor, evenif it's not spreading to the
humans.
Pate (08:30):
But the, the concern is definitely our cats, because it
is showing, like I said, besidesour dairy, that the wild cougars
that they've come across, thatthey've confirmed.
jme (08:43):
Yes.
Pate (08:44):
Um, and then that poor sanctuary Shelton, like I would,
I would be devastated.
jme (08:51):
Well, and they said that the, the cases went from mild to
fatal within 24 hours.
Pate (08:57):
Right.
They, I guess the symptoms arepneumonia like symptoms.
jme (09:02):
And so, you know, it's fast moving and it could pretty much
decimate an entire population ofanimals before you even really
know you have it.
Pate (09:10):
Right.
It's highly contagious.
jme (09:11):
Yes.
Pate (09:12):
Well, I mean, for the birds.
jme (09:14):
Well, and, when we're talking about trap neuter
release in ferals, that's whatTNR stands for, Trap, Neuter,
Release.
So those are community cats thatpeople are trapping and spaying
and neutering and then puttingback on the street.
Because that actually has shownto reduce populations of roaming
cats, which is another differentstory, but the reality
Pate (09:33):
Another one of our battles.
jme (09:34):
Yes, but the reality is, is that feral cats and cat colonies
don't need to be vilified anymore than they already are.
Pate (09:40):
Yeah.
jme (09:40):
And.
Our concern is what is going tohappen if people start to fear
stray cats coming around theirproperty and thinking that
they're going to get sick.
This is what we were worriedCOVID could have turned into if
people's pets started gettingCOVID and affecting them.
So some pets did get COVID, butit didn't transmit to humans.
(10:02):
The pets were getting it frompeople, but not giving it to
people.
Pate (10:06):
Correct.
jme (10:06):
And in this instance You're the stray cat that shows up
could be giving you flu.
So, we are just very concernedabout what that means for the
many millions of cats and catcolonies and the people that
are, helping support them andfeed them.
Pate (10:23):
Or rehoming them.
jme (10:25):
Yes.
Pate (10:25):
You know, once we get them, once we get kittens or a
mother.
Mm hmm.
From a feral colony who isadoptable and we put them in a
home.
How does that affect anything?
jme (10:36):
Well, before it was like we worried about them maybe having
upper respiratory infection.
Mm-hmm And like quarantine themso they don't get your cat sick
or, right.
Mm-hmm Or whatever.
And now like, and ringworm,let's say ringworm is like the
worst thing that, you know,people are afraid of when you,
Pate (10:52):
people hate ringworm
jme (10:53):
when you talk about, you know, fostering pets.
Pate (10:56):
And then to reiterate, ringworm is a fungus, not a
worm.
jme (11:00):
It's just like athlete's foot.
Pate (11:01):
It is.
jme (11:02):
So if you've had Athlete's Foot, or anyone in your family
has athlete's foot, you've gotringworm.
It's nothing to be afraid of.
Pate (11:08):
It's tinia.
It's tinia.
jme (11:10):
Yeah, but um, you know, people are afraid of getting
ringworm and that's just afungus.
That's not gonna kill you.
But if people can get You know,H5N1 from a cat that they're
fostering or a cat that theyjust adopted like, you know, We
in the animal welfare world haveto start, you know, taking even
more precautions than we doMotley's Zoo Always quarantines
(11:33):
our animals for a minimum of twoweeks We have done this from day
one and we will continue to dothis until we if we ever stop we
are never going to give up thequarantine process because That
is part of how we sleep atnight, knowing that we are doing
our best to make sure thatanimals and people are safe.
(11:53):
But, this is a whole new thingof taking in, I found a litter
of kittens under my porch.
And, I have nowhere to put them.
This puts a new spin on that forthe decisions that we're making.
And, this could end up being,let's say you take the loss of
animal life out of it.
a very expensive endeavor justdollar wise that all of a sudden
(12:18):
we have these cats that aregoing downhill and we have to
euthanize all these cats.
This could be very, verydetrimental to any animal
organization.
Pate (12:27):
Yeah.
I mean, the emotional toll is,you can't even really think
about the emotional toll.
Like I said, I would bedevastated if I was at Sanctuary
and Shelton.
My heart like goes out to thembecause that, I was just looking
at the video and I don't evenknow them and it crushed me, you
know?
But imagine having them with youwhen...
so that's going to be anemotional toll.
(12:48):
And then the health concern forlike who is going to foster like
if This is a highly contagiousdisease.
jme (12:59):
And we're speculating right now.
Pate (13:00):
Yeah, total, total speculation.
But this is how we work.
Like, we think about stuff andAnd we think ahead.
Yeah.
So, I mean, yeah, depending onwhere the cats come from, it's
not just panleukopenia that wehave to worry about, which is,
fatal, highly contagious.
jme (13:16):
Which isn't transmissible to people or dogs.
Pate (13:19):
Exactly, right, but it's transmissible to other cats in
the home.
And I know, I know, I get thisall the time that the two week
quarantine is just a pain in theass all the time.
I mean, we have lost fostersbecause
jme (13:33):
they don't want to quarantine.
Pate (13:34):
They don't want to quarantine.
But the outcome if you don'tquarantine is so much worse.
I have fortunately not had a lotof Parvo puppies.
I had one case and because Iquarantined, I had other puppies
in the home.
My blind dog Allie was one ofthose puppies and She was young
(13:57):
and I'm sure I had other puppiesas well.
But when I took on these threelittle pit bull puppies who
were, five weeks old orwhatever, bottle feeding or
whatnot, the idea wasn't Parvo,but they were still quarantined
for two weeks and we're not outand about.
So when Parvo did hit, no onegot Sick.
jme (14:20):
You had to clean your bathroom like
Pate (14:21):
Oh, I was Insanely Yeah, like every freaking week I was
cleaning that bathroom.
And then once Tulip didn't haveParvo anymore, I was freaking, I
cleaned the house like everyfreaking week.
I mean, well and Need somerescue, like I went over the
top.
I was a little, I was, yeah.
jme (14:37):
Well, but for good reason and, and you did not have new
puppies in your home.
for another six months.
Pate (14:43):
It wasn't until Groot because I was so worried.
That took such an emotional tollon me.
Losing Precious Pronchus, andJessie, and then just the way
Tulip suffered by herself.
Don't ask me why no one wantedto foster to adopt because we've
had Parvo puppies before.
before in the past.
jme (15:02):
Yeah, she got kind of screwed over.
Pate (15:04):
She totally got screwed over.
And we always had someone whowould foster to adopt.
And I was pimping her.
I'm not pimping, but
jme (15:10):
that's our term.
We joke about it.
Pimping her out to people.
Pate (15:14):
I'm like, Oh, you're looking for a pit bull puppy.
You don't have other puppies inthe home, or you have a healthy
adult and who's been,Vaccinated.
Vaccinated.
Multiple times.
And you've got great vethistory.
Look at this.
Look at this face.
I mean, and she was freakingadorable and nothing.
jme (15:32):
Was she with us for two years or three before she found
her home?
Pate (15:35):
I think two years.
And I'm thinking, anyway, two tothree years.
But yeah, so that was that wasnot a good scene at all.
jme (15:46):
Well, and it affected her emotionally.
Because of the quarantine.
It affected her behavior and hersocialization.
So when she would see dogs.
It sounded like she wanted tokill somebody, but she was
really just excited and wantedto meet them.
Pate (15:59):
So excited.
jme (16:00):
And thankfully we had a daycare client who, wanted a
second dog and they suggestedher, which we were like, Oh,
yeah.
And, and, you know, at first wewere kind of like, Oh, they're
probably gonna, you know, changetheir mind once they meet her or
whatever.
Pate (16:14):
She crazy.
jme (16:14):
Yeah, but they love her and they still bring, their dogs to
our kennel, even though we nowdon't have daycare.
We see them here at the kennel.
Pate (16:22):
Yeah, we just saw her in December.
Her and Kona.
jme (16:24):
Mm hmm.
So, you know, that's a greatexample of sometimes it takes
Two years for us to find theright family for a dog, or cat,
but we are not going to takechances, especially with dogs.
Pate (16:41):
Well, especially with contagious diseases
jme (16:42):
and never with contagious diseases.
I get why people don't like thequarantine.
I don't like having a dog in mybathroom that, is barking or
crying because they can't bewith the family.
There's ways to mitigate it andwe go in and spend time with
them or take them out in theyard into one specific spot that
we never take any other dogs,especially our own dogs.
(17:04):
You could have a quarantinecorner where You know where the
foster dogs are going so that iffor some reason you have a
problem then You've got it undercontrol But you know that could
be something that you might wantto ask an organization like do
you have a quarantine process?
What's the process?
And really before COVID No onereally understood what
(17:24):
quarantine meant.
We had to define quarantine topeople many, many times over.
We don't really have to be sospecific anymore because people
know exactly what that means andyeah A lot of people don't want
to do it right for cats.
It's easier though it really iseasier for cats because you can
literally put them in a bedroomor in a bathroom and
Pate (17:44):
With a litter box
jme (17:45):
and food go in there pat them play with them but You know
cats are kind of freaked out bychanges in the environment
anyway, so they really need timeto adjust and The cats are often
Not going to be introduced toevery animal in your home
they're probably gonna stay intheir space and you're gonna
keep them in that space untilthey are Adopted or go to a
(18:09):
different foster because that'swhat cats prefer.
They prefer a small environmentEspecially when things are
changing so A big house can bevery overwhelming for a cat, but
now we're gonna have to come upwith a protocol and you know
these processes of how do wetake in cats?
Where do they come from?
What are we what are we gonnado?
(18:30):
But quarantine is never gonna beoff the table ever And it's
really important and you knowThe lengths that we go to to
protect our people and animalsseem kind of ridiculous to some
people For example when Niallfinally got adopted We had a
Purebred Pumi puppy named NiallHoran and he took more than two
(18:51):
years to find a home for andsomebody made a snide comment on
Facebook like Great that he gotadopted, but the time it took is
ridiculous Well, that's whathappens when you deal with
people who look at a picture andthink that they want something
But then they are not preparedto meet the needs of that animal
In the end and so a lot of timeswe get flack for you know In, in
(19:13):
rescue in general for being too,too specific, too ridiculous.
Um, but you know, forMontlisieu, we're really
objective about what it is thatwe are sticklers on and what it
is that we're not.
I've seen rescues that won'tadopt outside their city or,
rescues that won't adopt a dogunless you have a fence.
(19:33):
We don't care if you have afence.
We want to know what you'regonna do with your dog, and how
you're gonna Um, exercise themand give them the stimulation
they need because chances arethrowing them in the backyard is
not going to be exercised forthe dog.
So, you know, even amongrescues, we don't understand a
lot of the reasons why peoplestick to some of their, their
rules.
And we understand thatnationwide that those are the
(19:56):
rules that, um, collectivelyanimal welfare associations are
trying to get people to lightenup on.
Um, but, you know, when we'retalking about.
You know things that endangerour animals or people or
anything like that We are not weare not going to give on that
and you can say that, you knowWe're ridiculous till we're blue
in the face But we're not goingto have the same problems that
(20:18):
other organizations have or thesame return rate that you know
Some organizations might haveand that's not their fault Like
I will say that's not a sheltersfault at all it that they have a
high return rate It's the natureof the beast, right?
But so going back to bird flu.
Pate (20:35):
Yeah, I mean it's something that we need to think
about It's not something that weneed to be paranoid about no But
it's something that we do needto think about when it comes to
taking in our cats in the futureEspecially the ones that we get
from outside
jme (20:51):
we do ask if you let your cats out when we adopt.
And, we encourage, indoor onlycats.
And part of the reason is thatcats are actually decimating the
songbird population.
And they kill millions andmillions of birds.
Pate (21:08):
And squirrels.
jme (21:09):
Yeah.
Every year.
And it's actually brought somesongbirds to the brink of
extinction and it literallycould go overboard.
It is domestic cats attackingand killing songbirds.
That is one of the biggestproblems about letting cats out.
Never mind, getting hit by a caror being attacked
Pate (21:30):
or Poisoned by a neighbor who hates cats.
jme (21:33):
That's another one.
And that's where my head goeswhen I think about how people
are potentially gonna vilifyFeral cats or cat colonies or
stray cats is that the peoplethat already don't want them
that's gonna be a field day forthem.
These are the things that weworry about and, we obviously
are going to be very pragmaticabout it.
(21:53):
We are not being sensationalistsabout this.
We're not out to scare anybody.
This is a very, timely topic andwe thought we'd bring it up
because it is affecting animalsin Washington and not just
birds, not just poultry.
There's going to be a lot moreto come in the future about
this, think about, they just,they still don't know where
(22:16):
coronavirus came from, right?
You know, did it come frompeople eating, you know, tainted
animals?
Pate (22:21):
Bats?
Was it bats?
jme (22:23):
I don't even know.
I thought it was a pangolin.
Pate (22:25):
Well, I thought SARS was a palm civet.
Palm civet.
jme (22:30):
Palm civet.
Pate (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So stop eating those animals.
jme (22:32):
Well, and the swine flu, that's pigs, right?
So there's a lot of problemsthat You know come up when
people are eating animals andeating different kinds of
animals and eating wild caughtanimals things like that
Pate (22:43):
in the factory I mean the factories aren't I'm sorry
factory farming.
That's not clean
jme (22:48):
It is not clean.
It is not good.
We know that 99 percent of thepeople that love dogs and cats
probably eat meat.
And we're not trying to, convertyou to be the 1 percent that
don't.
There is no perfect system, butI, I know
Pate (23:04):
Please avoid the factory farm.
jme (23:06):
Yes,
Pate (23:07):
like so, I mean if you're gonna eat meat, please try to
eat pasture raised.
jme (23:13):
Pasture raised, organic.
Pate (23:14):
Yeah, organic.
Well, and I mean, I don't knowhow you do it.
I mean
jme (23:18):
go to the local farm and get a butchered cow.
Pate (23:21):
Right.
Yeah.
jme (23:22):
Yeah.
I mean, but it makes more sense,right?
And, and you know what I heardactually too is that, the eggs
at Metropolitan Market and WholeFoods are like half the price of
eggs in normal grocery stores,because those chains are so
focused on local, farm to table,that the eggs cost so much less
to transport and deal with, soeggs at Metropolitan Market are
(23:45):
like 3, and they're like 8 or 9at the grocery store.
Pate (23:49):
Are they pasture raised?
jme (23:51):
Yes.
So, you know, that's where youcould really benefit from,
getting local.
But, think about it this way,too.
If you're getting local eggs,you better cook them really,
really well.
Because they are notpasteurized.
And raw milk.
Please don't get unpasteurizedraw milk, that is a concern with
the dairy, the dairy cows, thatthe milk can, could contain bird
(24:14):
flu.
You got to be really careful.
And of course, you know, We cansay too, eating salad, you can
get E.
coli.
But you know what that's from?
That's from the runoff from thecattle farms affecting the
produce of farms.
Pate (24:29):
Stop with the factory farms.
jme (24:31):
Yeah.
I don't even want to go there.
So, bird flu.
Pate (24:35):
Yeah, it's just something that we're thinking about.
Something that, hopefully, wedon't have to be concerned about
in the future.
But something that we do need tothink about.
Something that we need to beprepared for.
And
jme (24:49):
Well, we've already got the wildfires and now, oh gosh,
we're already full.
All the organizations here arefull.
Pate (24:54):
Talk to me about the wildfires
jme (24:55):
and, we just got over taking hurricane animals and
now, you know, we are beingasked to take fire, animals.
And it's, it's just a lot likethe Tacoma Humane Society has
more animals than they've everhad in.
Seven years, so almost almostdone.
Pate (25:13):
Yeah, and and again remember we were talking about
spay and neuter Well, this iswhat happens when you don't spay
and neuter your dogs And youhave a hoarding situation and
then the shelter has to go andtake care of that hoarding
situation for you
jme (25:24):
Well, and you don't even have to have a hoarding
situation to have problems withnot spaying and neutering your
dogs
Pate (25:30):
No, I'm just saying that's the reason why Tacoma is
overflowing at the momentbecause they just got It
jme (25:37):
A hoarding case?
Pate (25:37):
Well, no, I mean right before the hoarding case, it was
a, the dog fighting case.
And they had to, and they werefull with that.
jme (25:45):
Well, and they were already full before that.
So they were full with justgeneral population.
Then there was dog fighting.
Then there was hoarding.
Now we're, you know, as a statebeing asked to take animals from
the wildfires.
Really just, the hits do notstop coming.
And it's, it's really scaryactually.
Trying to survive as a charity,trying to survive as an animal
(26:05):
organization.
And that is not where people areputting their dollars, there's
no government funding for animalorganizations.
Pate (26:11):
I mean, didn't you hear, okay, this could be total
hearsay?
But I heard that Elon Musk gaveJeff Bezos's Ex wife a little
bit of grief for all of her.
Yes charities for women andwhatnot and So she she was like,
(26:32):
oh great.
Thanks for dissing me and nowI'm doubling it But you know the
point of that story was that shedoubled her charities for for
people
jme (26:41):
for humans.
Pate (26:41):
Yeah, but um Animals could really need some help.
jme (26:46):
They're not on the list of causes that she supports.
So when she has open callsanimals don't even make the cut.
So we couldn't even apply, acouple years ago when she opened
up the giving.
And, you know, we are not tryingto diss, her at all.
But I would like to have aconversation with Mackenzie
Scott.
I would really like to talk toher about how helping animals
(27:09):
does help people and that youcan help people but not to the
extent that they're having togive up their animals to be
euthanized.
In order to help them, like,homelessness or food insecurity.
People can't be forced to giveup one member of their family to
save the rest.
And, it's
Pate (27:28):
Well, and think about ESAs.
Like, people have emotionalsupport animals, and she's
supporting the people.
But then, what about thoseanimals who then support these
people, right?
jme (27:39):
Yeah, and they're not included in that kind of care or
funding.
Of course, they're expected togive up their pets to move into
some kind of housing or to getsupport for themselves Which is
why people live in their cars insafe parks because they don't
want to give up their pets So wehave just opened up a Pandora's
box of a bunch of other socialissues that are happening but
(28:03):
The takeaway from that is weapplaud what Mackenzie Scott is
doing.
We just would love to get in aroom with her and help her
understand.
Pate (28:10):
Just open her mind a little bit.
jme (28:12):
Yeah, help her understand that this is really important.
And, you know, Gandhi has asaying that,
Pate (28:19):
Is it the morality?
jme (28:21):
The morality and honor of a society is based on how they
treat animals.
And I would love for MackenzieScott to think about that
because animals need help.
People need help too.
But we are coming at it from theanimal perspective.
However, it is a very humanfocused situation.
Pate (28:42):
For reals.
jme (28:43):
So, bird flu.
Pate (28:46):
Bird flu and Mackenzie Scott.
jme (28:48):
Wrapping up bird flu.
Well it's just so interestinghow so many things overlap with,
from one thing to the next, tothe next, to the next, and how
we could talk about tendifferent subjects and they're
all related and all veryrelevant.
We could talk on forever, andwe'll never get everything
discussed.
Pate (29:06):
Digression is my middle name.
jme (29:12):
I'm Jme.
Pate (29:12):
I'm Pate.,
jme (29:13):
And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue.
This is Oops.
Go ahead.
Pate (29:20):
Start over.
Hi, no, no,
jme (29:24):
bye, I'm Jme.
My favorite is when I, I madePatty cough.
My favorite is when I go to say,Hi, I'm Patty.
Okay, okay, bye, I'm Jme.
Pate (29:38):
I can't.
Why do I cough when I laugh?
jme (29:45):
Anyway.
I'm Jme.
Pate (29:48):
I'm Pate.
This is our Podcast rescue shit
jme (29:54):
Rock on
Pate (29:55):
rescue on
jme (29:58):
Cough for our sound effect at the end.
Hi, I'm Jme.
Pate (00:00):
I'm Pate.,
jme (00:01):
and we are Motley Zoo.
Pate (00:03):
This is our podcast, Rescue Shit.
jme (00:09):
Today we're going to talk about bird flu, and we are going
to, unlike our evergreen contentof other things, we are going to
talk about the fact that this isJanuary of 2025, um, because
these have some relevant factsand statistics, which will be
changing over the coming monthsand the situation's gonna
(00:29):
change...
Hopefully not for the worst, butthis is January of 2025, when we
are talking about bird flu, theH5N1 virus.
Pate (00:38):
Right, and the reason why we're bringing it up is because
of the worry of cats.
So, trap, neuter, release cats.
It's a lot of cats that we workwith are strays.
They're out there.
We work with some people that doTNR and the ones that are not
(01:01):
crazy and are rehomeable oradoptable, they do reach out to
us.
And so it is something in theback of our minds to be
concerned about, especiallyafter what happened in Shelton.
jme (01:15):
Yes.
So what we're referring to is a,big cat sanctuary.
Cougars, tigers, lynx, bobcats,those kinds of things.
Pate (01:25):
Was there a caracal?
jme (01:26):
Caracal?
Yeah,
Pate (01:27):
and there was a Serval too,
jme (01:29):
mm hmm.
They had about 40 cats and theyhad to euthanize half of them.
Yeah, so 20.
Yeah, 20, 20 big cats did notmake it, because they were
affected with bird flu.
Pate (01:40):
They have 17 left.
jme (01:42):
Their vet came when the first cat got sick and thought
the cat had cancer.
Then the vet came when thesecond cat got sick and the vet
said the cat had cancer.
At that point though, the statewas called in.
I'm not sure why or thecircumstances surrounding that,
but it quickly became apparentthat it was bird flu,and they
(02:04):
believe that it probably came infrom Tainted Food.
So this is the bigger problembecause even if we're not
talking about TNR, we're talkingabout animals like domestic
cats, one being in dangeroutside, which, you know, we've
been singing that song for along time, Don't Let Them Out.
But also because there wasactually a recall of some pet
(02:27):
food, which we're going to tellyou about.
It was the two pound bag offeline turkey, Northwest
Naturals.
And this had the best use dateof May 21, 26 through 6, 23, 26.
And they actually had to recallthe cat food because a domestic
(02:49):
house cat died from it beingtainted.
we're concerned for TNR cats,for all the outdoor feral
communities, and especially howpeople may handle what's going
to happen if they do start tobecome a vector for this, and
become a more dangerous thingfor humans to encounter.
(03:11):
So indoor outdoor cats are indanger.
Not only of catching the birdsand eating them or anything like
that, but The the droppings andthe water they could drink from
a puddle And this is where youknow, our concern also starts to
spread to dogs.
There have been no confirmedcases This is this is that part
(03:34):
is Speculation, and I'm nottrying to be, um, inflammatory
or, you know, whatever, um, butit has spread to cattle.
Pate (03:43):
Right.
Well, yeah, dairy.
The dairy in California.
jme (03:47):
Yes.
So 645 dairies in Californiahave had, infected cattle with
bird flu.
Pate (03:57):
Yep.
jme (03:58):
So how many of that, because even in dairy farms.
You still eat the baby boys andthe old ones go to the
slaughterhouse.
So how many of them Ended up inpet food,
Pate (04:13):
our food.
jme (04:14):
Our food.
Pate (04:15):
Well, I don't eat cow.
jme (04:16):
Well, even the milk.
Even the milk.
The milk can be tainted.
Pate (04:20):
But I'm lactose intolerant.
You have to worry about themilk.
jme (04:23):
I don't have to worry about milk.
I don't like milk.
I don't know,
Pate (04:26):
but cheese, right?
Like, does it affect cheese?
jme (04:28):
Cheese?
I'm gonna have to give upcheese.
Okay, so I am vegetarian and Ido eat eggs and I don't drink
milk, but I do eat cheese.
And then Pate...
Pate (04:40):
Can't have milk,
jme (04:41):
can't have milk, and she's vegetarian, mostly vegan really,
because she can't have milk,
Pate (04:46):
can't have milk.
jme (04:47):
And, I'm thinking this might be a good time to try
being a vegetarian, or at least,at least,
Pate (04:52):
you are a vegetarian.
jme (04:53):
No, for people, our audience.
Pate (04:55):
Oh, oh, oh.
jme (04:56):
To not eat chicken, and not eat chicken.
Pate (04:59):
Poultry, because yeah, the recall was turkey, so any kind
of poultry.
jme (05:03):
That's true, turkey.
We're not gonna tell you what todo, but.
Pate (05:07):
Remember mad cow disease?
jme (05:08):
That is why I started becoming a vegetarian.
It was just so gross to me, Ididn't really think I was gonna
get mad cow disease.
Pate (05:15):
Yeah, so it's mad cow disease, and then now it's H5N1.
jme (05:19):
Which can kill you.
Pate (05:20):
Cow disease.
jme (05:21):
It's not as far fetched as that, because on January 6th of
2025, so just a few days ago,the first human death From H5N1
occurred in Maryland.
Pate (05:36):
Okay, and we're not trying to be
jme (05:39):
We are not trying to be inflammatory or scare anybody.
Pate (05:42):
Yeah, there's no like fear mongering going on right now.
jme (05:45):
No, we're just discussing what's going on and how You may
think it doesn't relate to youor your pets, but how it really
can and it really does.
We found out that in oursurrounding area, Snohomish
County actually has the highestnumber of Birds that were
infected in Washington with 10,King County with 9, 53 total
(06:09):
birds, but you know, 10
Pate (06:12):
flocks.
jme (06:13):
Yeah, 10 being the highest and that's 15 minutes down the
road.
Pate (06:17):
No, it's Snohomish County.
Like we're in Snohomish County.
jme (06:20):
Oh, you're right.
Pate (06:22):
Yeah.
King County was nine.
Snohomish County is ten.
jme (06:25):
You're right.
There is a town of Snohomishtoo.
And that's what I was thinking.
So there's a low risk to humansif you are not handling dead
birds.
Pate (06:34):
Don't touch your face when you handle your chickens.
jme (06:35):
And don't kiss your chickens, unfortunately.
And there has been no human tohuman, contact, but keeps
seemingly spreading to newmammals.
Pate (06:45):
Right?
And then there was a case of twocougars in Clallam, Clallam,
jme (06:51):
Clallam,
Pate (06:52):
yeah, I can't say it.
jme (06:53):
Clallam County
Pate (06:53):
Yeah, so that, I mean,
jme (06:55):
two wild cougars,
Pate (06:56):
two wild cougars, right?
So that your concern there, itgoes back to Shelton where they
think, yes, it was tainted meat,but It could also have been wild
bird droppings.
And obviously it's not tainted.
Well, I shouldn't say it's nottainted meat.
Cause it could have been atainted,
jme (07:13):
a tainted chicken that they ate,
Pate (07:15):
a chicken that they ate or a wild bird that they ate.
Right.
Yeah.
So it doesn't necessarily needto be in the environment for
them, like with droppings andthe water and stuff like that.
They could have eaten that bird.
But people who let their catsout and the colonies out there,
the feral colonies out there,they're eating birds.
jme (07:35):
Yep.
Pate (07:35):
You know?
jme (07:36):
Well, and also they've been telling hunters to be aware.
I mean, like if you're a duckhunter you have to be concerned.
And I mean, I don't know if itcan spread to cattle.
Can it spread to deer?
Probably.
They don't eat the meat, butwhat if they're eating and
drinking from puddles that haveyou know, bird droppings in
(07:57):
them.
Pate (07:57):
Yeah, how did the dairy cattle in California get avian?
jme (08:00):
Probably their, their grain, their food.
Pate (08:02):
Are they feeding them chickens?
jme (08:04):
Well, no, but like, what if the grain was near contaminated
chickens?
So the food, maybe, I, I don'tknow if it can live in, you
know, whatever, um, that'ssomething that we're going to
have to figure out, but, butprobably maybe people were the
vector.
They went from contaminatedchickens to the dairy farm and
then, and then, you know,infected the cattle.
(08:26):
Human vectors is a factor, evenif it's not spreading to the
humans.
Pate (08:30):
But the, the concern is definitely our cats, because it
is showing, like I said, besidesour dairy, that the wild cougars
that they've come across, thatthey've confirmed.
jme (08:43):
Yes.
Pate (08:44):
Um, and then that poor sanctuary Shelton, like I would,
I would be devastated.
jme (08:51):
Well, and they said that the, the cases went from mild to
fatal within 24 hours.
Pate (08:57):
Right.
They, I guess the symptoms arepneumonia like symptoms.
jme (09:02):
And so, you know, it's fast moving and it could pretty much
decimate an entire population ofanimals before you even really
know you have it.
Pate (09:10):
Right.
It's highly contagious.
jme (09:11):
Yes.
Pate (09:12):
Well, I mean, for the birds.
jme (09:14):
Well, and, when we're talking about trap neuter
release in ferals, that's whatTNR stands for, Trap, Neuter,
Release.
So those are community cats thatpeople are trapping and spaying
and neutering and then puttingback on the street.
Because that actually has shownto reduce populations of roaming
cats, which is another differentstory, but the reality
Pate (09:33):
Another one of our battles.
jme (09:34):
Yes, but the reality is, is that feral cats and cat colonies
don't need to be vilified anymore than they already are.
Pate (09:40):
Yeah.
jme (09:40):
And.
Our concern is what is going tohappen if people start to fear
stray cats coming around theirproperty and thinking that
they're going to get sick.
This is what we were worriedCOVID could have turned into if
people's pets started gettingCOVID and affecting them.
So some pets did get COVID, butit didn't transmit to humans.
(10:02):
The pets were getting it frompeople, but not giving it to
people.
Pate (10:06):
Correct.
jme (10:06):
And in this instance You're the stray cat that shows up
could be giving you flu.
So, we are just very concernedabout what that means for the
many millions of cats and catcolonies and the people that
are, helping support them andfeed them.
Pate (10:23):
Or rehoming them.
jme (10:25):
Yes.
Pate (10:25):
You know, once we get them, once we get kittens or a
mother.
Mm hmm.
From a feral colony who isadoptable and we put them in a
home.
How does that affect anything?
jme (10:36):
Well, before it was like we worried about them maybe having
upper respiratory infection.
Mm-hmm And like quarantine themso they don't get your cat sick
or, right.
Mm-hmm Or whatever.
And now like, and ringworm,let's say ringworm is like the
worst thing that, you know,people are afraid of when you,
Pate (10:52):
people hate ringworm
jme (10:53):
when you talk about, you know, fostering pets.
Pate (10:56):
And then to reiterate, ringworm is a fungus, not a
worm.
jme (11:00):
It's just like athlete's foot.
Pate (11:01):
It is.
jme (11:02):
So if you've had Athlete's Foot, or anyone in your family
has athlete's foot, you've gotringworm.
It's nothing to be afraid of.
Pate (11:08):
It's tinia.
It's tinia.
jme (11:10):
Yeah, but um, you know, people are afraid of getting
ringworm and that's just afungus.
That's not gonna kill you.
But if people can get You know,H5N1 from a cat that they're
fostering or a cat that theyjust adopted like, you know, We
in the animal welfare world haveto start, you know, taking even
more precautions than we doMotley's Zoo Always quarantines
(11:33):
our animals for a minimum of twoweeks We have done this from day
one and we will continue to dothis until we if we ever stop we
are never going to give up thequarantine process because That
is part of how we sleep atnight, knowing that we are doing
our best to make sure thatanimals and people are safe.
(11:53):
But, this is a whole new thingof taking in, I found a litter
of kittens under my porch.
And, I have nowhere to put them.
This puts a new spin on that forthe decisions that we're making.
And, this could end up being,let's say you take the loss of
animal life out of it.
a very expensive endeavor justdollar wise that all of a sudden
(12:18):
we have these cats that aregoing downhill and we have to
euthanize all these cats.
This could be very, verydetrimental to any animal
organization.
Pate (12:27):
Yeah.
I mean, the emotional toll is,you can't even really think
about the emotional toll.
Like I said, I would bedevastated if I was at Sanctuary
and Shelton.
My heart like goes out to thembecause that, I was just looking
at the video and I don't evenknow them and it crushed me, you
know?
But imagine having them with youwhen...
so that's going to be anemotional toll.
(12:48):
And then the health concern forlike who is going to foster like
if This is a highly contagiousdisease.
jme (12:59):
And we're speculating right now.
Pate (13:00):
Yeah, total, total speculation.
But this is how we work.
Like, we think about stuff andAnd we think ahead.
Yeah.
So, I mean, yeah, depending onwhere the cats come from, it's
not just panleukopenia that wehave to worry about, which is,
fatal, highly contagious.
jme (13:16):
Which isn't transmissible to people or dogs.
Pate (13:19):
Exactly, right, but it's transmissible to other cats in
the home.
And I know, I know, I get thisall the time that the two week
quarantine is just a pain in theass all the time.
I mean, we have lost fostersbecause
jme (13:33):
they don't want to quarantine.
Pate (13:34):
They don't want to quarantine.
But the outcome if you don'tquarantine is so much worse.
I have fortunately not had a lotof Parvo puppies.
I had one case and because Iquarantined, I had other puppies
in the home.
My blind dog Allie was one ofthose puppies and She was young
(13:57):
and I'm sure I had other puppiesas well.
But when I took on these threelittle pit bull puppies who
were, five weeks old orwhatever, bottle feeding or
whatnot, the idea wasn't Parvo,but they were still quarantined
for two weeks and we're not outand about.
So when Parvo did hit, no onegot Sick.
jme (14:20):
You had to clean your bathroom like
Pate (14:21):
Oh, I was Insanely Yeah, like every freaking week I was
cleaning that bathroom.
And then once Tulip didn't haveParvo anymore, I was freaking, I
cleaned the house like everyfreaking week.
I mean, well and Need somerescue, like I went over the
top.
I was a little, I was, yeah.
jme (14:37):
Well, but for good reason and, and you did not have new
puppies in your home.
for another six months.
Pate (14:43):
It wasn't until Groot because I was so worried.
That took such an emotional tollon me.
Losing Precious Pronchus, andJessie, and then just the way
Tulip suffered by herself.
Don't ask me why no one wantedto foster to adopt because we've
had Parvo puppies before.
before in the past.
jme (15:02):
Yeah, she got kind of screwed over.
Pate (15:04):
She totally got screwed over.
And we always had someone whowould foster to adopt.
And I was pimping her.
I'm not pimping, but
jme (15:10):
that's our term.
We joke about it.
Pimping her out to people.
Pate (15:14):
I'm like, Oh, you're looking for a pit bull puppy.
You don't have other puppies inthe home, or you have a healthy
adult and who's been,Vaccinated.
Vaccinated.
Multiple times.
And you've got great vethistory.
Look at this.
Look at this face.
I mean, and she was freakingadorable and nothing.
jme (15:32):
Was she with us for two years or three before she found
her home?
Pate (15:35):
I think two years.
And I'm thinking, anyway, two tothree years.
But yeah, so that was that wasnot a good scene at all.
jme (15:46):
Well, and it affected her emotionally.
Because of the quarantine.
It affected her behavior and hersocialization.
So when she would see dogs.
It sounded like she wanted tokill somebody, but she was
really just excited and wantedto meet them.
Pate (15:59):
So excited.
jme (16:00):
And thankfully we had a daycare client who, wanted a
second dog and they suggestedher, which we were like, Oh,
yeah.
And, and, you know, at first wewere kind of like, Oh, they're
probably gonna, you know, changetheir mind once they meet her or
whatever.
Pate (16:14):
She crazy.
jme (16:14):
Yeah, but they love her and they still bring, their dogs to
our kennel, even though we nowdon't have daycare.
We see them here at the kennel.
Pate (16:22):
Yeah, we just saw her in December.
Her and Kona.
jme (16:24):
Mm hmm.
So, you know, that's a greatexample of sometimes it takes
Two years for us to find theright family for a dog, or cat,
but we are not going to takechances, especially with dogs.
Pate (16:41):
Well, especially with contagious diseases
jme (16:42):
and never with contagious diseases.
I get why people don't like thequarantine.
I don't like having a dog in mybathroom that, is barking or
crying because they can't bewith the family.
There's ways to mitigate it andwe go in and spend time with
them or take them out in theyard into one specific spot that
we never take any other dogs,especially our own dogs.
(17:04):
You could have a quarantinecorner where You know where the
foster dogs are going so that iffor some reason you have a
problem then You've got it undercontrol But you know that could
be something that you might wantto ask an organization like do
you have a quarantine process?
What's the process?
And really before COVID No onereally understood what
(17:24):
quarantine meant.
We had to define quarantine topeople many, many times over.
We don't really have to be sospecific anymore because people
know exactly what that means andyeah A lot of people don't want
to do it right for cats.
It's easier though it really iseasier for cats because you can
literally put them in a bedroomor in a bathroom and
Pate (17:44):
With a litter box
jme (17:45):
and food go in there pat them play with them but You know
cats are kind of freaked out bychanges in the environment
anyway, so they really need timeto adjust and The cats are often
Not going to be introduced toevery animal in your home
they're probably gonna stay intheir space and you're gonna
keep them in that space untilthey are Adopted or go to a
(18:09):
different foster because that'swhat cats prefer.
They prefer a small environmentEspecially when things are
changing so A big house can bevery overwhelming for a cat, but
now we're gonna have to come upwith a protocol and you know
these processes of how do wetake in cats?
Where do they come from?
What are we what are we gonnado?
(18:30):
But quarantine is never gonna beoff the table ever And it's
really important and you knowThe lengths that we go to to
protect our people and animalsseem kind of ridiculous to some
people For example when Niallfinally got adopted We had a
Purebred Pumi puppy named NiallHoran and he took more than two
(18:51):
years to find a home for andsomebody made a snide comment on
Facebook like Great that he gotadopted, but the time it took is
ridiculous Well, that's whathappens when you deal with
people who look at a picture andthink that they want something
But then they are not preparedto meet the needs of that animal
In the end and so a lot of timeswe get flack for you know In, in
(19:13):
rescue in general for being too,too specific, too ridiculous.
Um, but you know, forMontlisieu, we're really
objective about what it is thatwe are sticklers on and what it
is that we're not.
I've seen rescues that won'tadopt outside their city or,
rescues that won't adopt a dogunless you have a fence.
(19:33):
We don't care if you have afence.
We want to know what you'regonna do with your dog, and how
you're gonna Um, exercise themand give them the stimulation
they need because chances arethrowing them in the backyard is
not going to be exercised forthe dog.
So, you know, even amongrescues, we don't understand a
lot of the reasons why peoplestick to some of their, their
rules.
And we understand thatnationwide that those are the
(19:56):
rules that, um, collectivelyanimal welfare associations are
trying to get people to lightenup on.
Um, but, you know, when we'retalking about.
You know things that endangerour animals or people or
anything like that We are not weare not going to give on that
and you can say that, you knowWe're ridiculous till we're blue
in the face But we're not goingto have the same problems that
(20:18):
other organizations have or thesame return rate that you know
Some organizations might haveand that's not their fault Like
I will say that's not a sheltersfault at all it that they have a
high return rate It's the natureof the beast, right?
But so going back to bird flu.
Pate (20:35):
Yeah, I mean it's something that we need to think
about It's not something that weneed to be paranoid about no But
it's something that we do needto think about when it comes to
taking in our cats in the futureEspecially the ones that we get
from outside
jme (20:51):
we do ask if you let your cats out when we adopt.
And, we encourage, indoor onlycats.
And part of the reason is thatcats are actually decimating the
songbird population.
And they kill millions andmillions of birds.
Pate (21:08):
And squirrels.
jme (21:09):
Yeah.
Every year.
And it's actually brought somesongbirds to the brink of
extinction and it literallycould go overboard.
It is domestic cats attackingand killing songbirds.
That is one of the biggestproblems about letting cats out.
Never mind, getting hit by a caror being attacked
Pate (21:30):
or Poisoned by a neighbor who hates cats.
jme (21:33):
That's another one.
And that's where my head goeswhen I think about how people
are potentially gonna vilifyFeral cats or cat colonies or
stray cats is that the peoplethat already don't want them
that's gonna be a field day forthem.
These are the things that weworry about and, we obviously
are going to be very pragmaticabout it.
(21:53):
We are not being sensationalistsabout this.
We're not out to scare anybody.
This is a very, timely topic andwe thought we'd bring it up
because it is affecting animalsin Washington and not just
birds, not just poultry.
There's going to be a lot moreto come in the future about
this, think about, they just,they still don't know where
(22:16):
coronavirus came from, right?
You know, did it come frompeople eating, you know, tainted
animals?
Pate (22:21):
Bats?
Was it bats?
jme (22:23):
I don't even know.
I thought it was a pangolin.
Pate (22:25):
Well, I thought SARS was a palm civet.
Palm civet.
jme (22:30):
Palm civet.
Pate (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So stop eating those animals.
jme (22:32):
Well, and the swine flu, that's pigs, right?
So there's a lot of problemsthat You know come up when
people are eating animals andeating different kinds of
animals and eating wild caughtanimals things like that
Pate (22:43):
in the factory I mean the factories aren't I'm sorry
factory farming.
That's not clean
jme (22:48):
It is not clean.
It is not good.
We know that 99 percent of thepeople that love dogs and cats
probably eat meat.
And we're not trying to, convertyou to be the 1 percent that
don't.
There is no perfect system, butI, I know
Pate (23:04):
Please avoid the factory farm.
jme (23:06):
Yes,
Pate (23:07):
like so, I mean if you're gonna eat meat, please try to
eat pasture raised.
jme (23:13):
Pasture raised, organic.
Pate (23:14):
Yeah, organic.
Well, and I mean, I don't knowhow you do it.
I mean
jme (23:18):
go to the local farm and get a butchered cow.
Pate (23:21):
Right.
Yeah.
jme (23:22):
Yeah.
I mean, but it makes more sense,right?
And, and you know what I heardactually too is that, the eggs
at Metropolitan Market and WholeFoods are like half the price of
eggs in normal grocery stores,because those chains are so
focused on local, farm to table,that the eggs cost so much less
to transport and deal with, soeggs at Metropolitan Market are
(23:45):
like 3, and they're like 8 or 9at the grocery store.
Pate (23:49):
Are they pasture raised?
jme (23:51):
Yes.
So, you know, that's where youcould really benefit from,
getting local.
But, think about it this way,too.
If you're getting local eggs,you better cook them really,
really well.
Because they are notpasteurized.
And raw milk.
Please don't get unpasteurizedraw milk, that is a concern with
the dairy, the dairy cows, thatthe milk can, could contain bird
(24:14):
flu.
You got to be really careful.
And of course, you know, We cansay too, eating salad, you can
get E.
coli.
But you know what that's from?
That's from the runoff from thecattle farms affecting the
produce of farms.
Pate (24:29):
Stop with the factory farms.
jme (24:31):
Yeah.
I don't even want to go there.
So, bird flu.
Pate (24:35):
Yeah, it's just something that we're thinking about.
Something that, hopefully, wedon't have to be concerned about
in the future.
But something that we do need tothink about.
Something that we need to beprepared for.
And
jme (24:49):
Well, we've already got the wildfires and now, oh gosh,
we're already full.
All the organizations here arefull.
Pate (24:54):
Talk to me about the wildfires
jme (24:55):
and, we just got over taking hurricane animals and
now, you know, we are beingasked to take fire, animals.
And it's, it's just a lot likethe Tacoma Humane Society has
more animals than they've everhad in.
Seven years, so almost almostdone.
Pate (25:13):
Yeah, and and again remember we were talking about
spay and neuter Well, this iswhat happens when you don't spay
and neuter your dogs And youhave a hoarding situation and
then the shelter has to go andtake care of that hoarding
situation for you
jme (25:24):
Well, and you don't even have to have a hoarding
situation to have problems withnot spaying and neutering your
dogs
Pate (25:30):
No, I'm just saying that's the reason why Tacoma is
overflowing at the momentbecause they just got It
jme (25:37):
A hoarding case?
Pate (25:37):
Well, no, I mean right before the hoarding case, it was
a, the dog fighting case.
And they had to, and they werefull with that.
jme (25:45):
Well, and they were already full before that.
So they were full with justgeneral population.
Then there was dog fighting.
Then there was hoarding.
Now we're, you know, as a statebeing asked to take animals from
the wildfires.
Really just, the hits do notstop coming.
And it's, it's really scaryactually.
Trying to survive as a charity,trying to survive as an animal
(26:05):
organization.
And that is not where people areputting their dollars, there's
no government funding for animalorganizations.
Pate (26:11):
I mean, didn't you hear, okay, this could be total
hearsay?
But I heard that Elon Musk gaveJeff Bezos's Ex wife a little
bit of grief for all of her.
Yes charities for women andwhatnot and So she she was like,
(26:32):
oh great.
Thanks for dissing me and nowI'm doubling it But you know the
point of that story was that shedoubled her charities for for
people
jme (26:41):
for humans.
Pate (26:41):
Yeah, but um Animals could really need some help.
jme (26:46):
They're not on the list of causes that she supports.
So when she has open callsanimals don't even make the cut.
So we couldn't even apply, acouple years ago when she opened
up the giving.
And, you know, we are not tryingto diss, her at all.
But I would like to have aconversation with Mackenzie
Scott.
I would really like to talk toher about how helping animals
(27:09):
does help people and that youcan help people but not to the
extent that they're having togive up their animals to be
euthanized.
In order to help them, like,homelessness or food insecurity.
People can't be forced to giveup one member of their family to
save the rest.
And, it's
Pate (27:28):
Well, and think about ESAs.
Like, people have emotionalsupport animals, and she's
supporting the people.
But then, what about thoseanimals who then support these
people, right?
jme (27:39):
Yeah, and they're not included in that kind of care or
funding.
Of course, they're expected togive up their pets to move into
some kind of housing or to getsupport for themselves Which is
why people live in their cars insafe parks because they don't
want to give up their pets So wehave just opened up a Pandora's
box of a bunch of other socialissues that are happening but
(28:03):
The takeaway from that is weapplaud what Mackenzie Scott is
doing.
We just would love to get in aroom with her and help her
understand.
Pate (28:10):
Just open her mind a little bit.
jme (28:12):
Yeah, help her understand that this is really important.
And, you know, Gandhi has asaying that,
Pate (28:19):
Is it the morality?
jme (28:21):
The morality and honor of a society is based on how they
treat animals.
And I would love for MackenzieScott to think about that
because animals need help.
People need help too.
But we are coming at it from theanimal perspective.
However, it is a very humanfocused situation.
Pate (28:42):
For reals.
jme (28:43):
So, bird flu.
Pate (28:46):
Bird flu and Mackenzie Scott.
jme (28:48):
Wrapping up bird flu.
Well it's just so interestinghow so many things overlap with,
from one thing to the next, tothe next, to the next, and how
we could talk about tendifferent subjects and they're
all related and all veryrelevant.
We could talk on forever, andwe'll never get everything
discussed.
Pate (29:06):
Digression is my middle name.
jme (29:12):
I'm Jme.
Pate (29:12):
I'm Pate.,
jme (29:13):
And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue.
This is Oops.
Go ahead.
Pate (29:20):
Start over.
Hi, no, no,
jme (29:24):
bye, I'm Jme.
My favorite is when I, I madePatty cough.
My favorite is when I go to say,Hi, I'm Patty.
Okay, okay, bye, I'm Jme.
Pate (29:38):
I can't.
Why do I cough when I laugh?
jme (29:45):
Anyway.
I'm Jme.
Pate (29:48):
I'm Pate.
This is our Podcast rescue shit
jme (29:54):
Rock on
Pate (29:55):
rescue on
jme (29:58):
Cough for our sound effect at the end.
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