May 4, 2023 • 30 mins
This episode is about the many reasons we (and shelters) receive pets from owners who cannot keep their animals any longer. The list is long! While surrender is one way to solve a problem the animals are not always rehomable- or the problems people are experiencing have relatively simple solutions. We help the families get clarity on the next steps- especially whether surrender is required or if some help is all they need.
This week's Adoptable Roadie is Mark Ikagami, aka Ick. He is a really sweet, shy guy who would love an experienced handler and a new dog friend to grow with.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pate (00:00):
Yo.
This is Pate.
jme (00:07):
And I'm Jme.
Pate (00:08):
And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue, and this is our
podcast
jme (00:11):
Rescue Shit.
This week we're going to talkabout surrendering animals.
This is one of the ways thatanimals come to us, and we're
gonna talk a little bit aboutsome of the reasons people, end
up wanting to give their animalsaway.
Pate (00:25):
The majority of the animals that we get come from
shelters or other rescues.
Many of them are medical needs.
Sometimes the vet calls.
Because they have a medical needin the ER, for example.
So that's the majority of ouranimals is from the shelters and
rescues that we help.
(00:46):
But a small portion that we takein our owner surrenders.
jme (00:51):
One of our least favorite reasons people give for giving
up an animal is moving.
I am moving to an apartment thatdoesn't allow dogs and I can't
take my husky.
There's about a billion huskiesin the shelter right now.
Well, you have to find a placethat's gonna take your Husky or
I don't know what you're gonnado.
Like literally, I don't know.
So what do you have to say aboutthat?
Pate (01:13):
Well, obviously part of the problem with the breed
restrictions is that it's such ageneral blanket for apartment
complexes.
I think that if more peopletrain their animals and more
people got, as much as I don'tlike the AKC, the CGC is a
really valid, trainingguideline.
jme (01:33):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (01:34):
And to how to train these dogs to be good citizens, right?
So I think like apartmentcomplexes or landlords or
whatever should, if a dog is CGCcertified, kind of like waive
that whole like, breedrestriction thing.
jme (01:47):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (01:48):
That's a personal opinion.
jme (01:49):
But most of the time the animals aren't that well behaved
and that's part of the problem.
Pate (01:53):
Mm-hmm.
jme (01:53):
Because if they were well behaved, then they would be
keeping them and they would befinding a home that would let
them in because they would be agood dog.
It's a convenient way to say Ididn't train my dog and I'm
moving now...
Pate (02:05):
But sometimes apartments, I mean, look at the apartments
around here.
How many allow pets and how manyallow pets without a weight
restriction.
jme (02:16):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (02:16):
You know, and then Huskies are again, like a breed that is
restricted, for example.
jme (02:22):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (02:23):
They're on the list of restrictions cuz of a, they love
to sing except mine is defectiveand doesn't make a noise.
And actually Axl is being quietfor him, but at night he sings
like a mother.
jme (02:37):
He's actually being really good.
Pate (02:39):
But t hey have certain breed restrictions, based on, I
guess like vocalization,destructiveness, and, quote
unquote aggression.
But if people trained their dogsand had CGCs...
jme (02:52):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (02:53):
And things like that I think landlords should take that
into consideration because youcan have an untrained ESA
(emotional support animal).
But as long as you have thatnote from the doctor that says
that I need an emotional supportanimal for whatever medical
reason, landlords have to letyou.
jme (03:10):
Well, and that's a whole other episode on its own...
I wanna say that there arepeople that are moving for
legitimate financial reasons andthey've lost their home, or
they've lost their job and likewe are not minimizing their
situation, nor are we judgingthem for that.
But a lot of times that is notthe situation.
Pate (03:26):
Yeah.
Right.
How many times have, I mean, howmany times have we moved with
animals?
jme (03:30):
Right.
Exactly.
Pate (03:31):
I mean, I moved from Florida to Washington.
jme (03:34):
Yeah.
Pate (03:34):
I mean, we drove in a Suburban,(yeah) with three cats,
two ferrets, three dogs, and twokids.
jme (03:43):
Mm-hmm.
And that's what a rescuer woulddo.
But that is not what most peoplewould do.
Pate (03:49):
No reason why you can't, if I can do it, you can too..
jme (03:51):
Right.
Exactly.
And we're talking about themajority of the times when it's
not because of some reallyserious problem that they can't
resolve or there's also like I'mleaving my abusive relationship.
Pate (04:06):
Yeah.
jme (04:06):
And I can't take my dog cuz I don't...
Pate (04:08):
Because the women's shelters won't let you.
jme (04:10):
Right.
And I don't even know where I'mgonna be.
Of course.
(mm-hmm) that happens and we'vehelped those people and we tell
them contact us when you getsafe and if we still have your
animal then great, you can takethem back, but if not, we have
to adopt them out.
Pate (04:24):
Mm-hmm.
jme (04:24):
Like that's the process.
We have to be doing that.
And they understand that, andthey're willing to give up their
animals because they want what'sbest for them.
Pate (04:32):
Mm-hmm.
jme (04:32):
And they need to figure out what they're gonna do with
themselves.
And so this is not like we haveno pity or understanding or, or
compassion for people interrible situations.
Pate (04:41):
Right.
jme (04:41):
It's quite the opposite.
Pate (04:42):
Right.
jme (04:43):
It's that most of the time people aren't in those
situations or they've neglectedto take care of the situation
first and then their emergencybecomes our problem.
And that's hard because nothinghappens quickly, really, in
rescue.
And we need to find a, a homefor your animal.
And then when you tell us thatit has all these problems that
(05:03):
you've never dealt with that'sgonna be a hard thing to find a
foster home for.
Pate (05:07):
Right.
jme (05:08):
And then, a lot of times too, we'll say, I'm sorry, the
shelter is gonna be the fastest.
That's not even true anymore.
It used to be, right?
Pate (05:15):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
jme (05:15):
It used to be the fastest, but right now it's like...
Pate (05:18):
The adoptions are low.
jme (05:19):
Yeah.
It's like a four to six weekwaiting list(yeah) for anybody
to surrender a dog.
Pate (05:23):
Which is crazy.
jme (05:24):
It is crazy.
Then a lot of people are like,well, I don't want my dog to be
in a shelter.
Well, you also can't really pickor choose because...
Pate (05:31):
Yeah.
jme (05:31):
I'm sorry.
Pate (05:32):
You're giving up your dog.
I don't want your dog in ashelter either.
I'd rather your dog stay withyou.
jme (05:35):
Right.
That's exactly it.
So moving is a tough one butthere are a lot of people who
chronically rehome their petswhen they move and I would say
even cats, which I don't reallyget, like people who rehome
their cats when they move.
Pate (05:49):
Because you're just like, oh, you know, if I move then
whatever, I'm not even gonnatry.
jme (05:54):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (05:55):
Hmm.
jme (05:56):
Well, what about allergies?
I would say this is more commonwith cats than with dogs And
Pate (06:02):
that's a legitimate thing, right?
You have a baby and then thebaby is allergic.
That's a medical condition.
jme (06:10):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (06:11):
I don't wanna say it's a valid excuse compared to others,
but I mean, it's a medicalcondition that that could it
could have ramifications on achild's health.
Right?
jme (06:19):
Yeah.
I mean, we're not trying tojudge the reasons, we're just
giving the reasons.
Pate (06:23):
Right.
jme (06:23):
It's definitely one that is understandable and I guess
reasonable more...
Pate (06:29):
Well because it's not a behavioral issue.
jme (06:30):
I'm not saying that if your kid's allergic that you should
continue to do this, b ut kidsthat grow up with pets actually
tend to have less allergies thanthose that don't.
So getting rid of your petsbefore you have a kid, just for
the sake of that is not a goodidea.
Pate (06:45):
Mm-hmm.
jme (06:46):
I remember one lady, she was like, I'm about to have a
baby and the litter box is dirtyand I don't want my child
crawling on the same floor asthe cat where the cat walks.
And I was like, that's not okayat all.
Pate (07:00):
Your kid's gonna be dirty as hell.
Yeah.
Don't take it to a daycare then.
jme (07:03):
Right?
Like your kid's going to eatdirt.
And you
Pate (07:06):
And I can say that cuz I'm a parent.
Kids are dirty.
jme (07:09):
Yeah.
Litter boxes are, they're notclean, but they're cleaner than
a lot of places that your kidsare gonna put their hands in...
Pate (07:15):
Sandbox.
jme (07:16):
Mouth and everything.
So, you know, that's a reallyskewed concept.
That's a bad idea.
And, and that's not Okay.
Pate (07:25):
Here's a thought.
Clean your litter box.
jme (07:28):
Yeah.
Pate (07:28):
You know, I mean, Baby gate.
Hello.
jme (07:32):
Yeah.
I don't remember what she saidand I said it very nicely.
Pate (07:35):
Mm-hmm.
I was gonna say, remember therewas this family had surrendered
multiple animals to us becausetheir child was allergic and
they kept trying differentthings.
jme (07:46):
Yes.
Pate (07:47):
With the kid...
jme (07:48):
The hairless cat.
A dog...
Pate (07:51):
Uhhuh.
jme (07:51):
Two dogs, right?
Pate (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
jme (07:53):
Two dogs.
Yeah.
And the woman kept buying, dogbuying pets.
Pate (07:57):
Mm-hmm.
jme (07:57):
Like at thousands and thousands of dollars...
Pate (07:59):
Because they're quote unquote hypoallergenic, and it's
like, okay, you realize the furmaybe, but I think your kid's
allergic to the saliva, which isnot gonna help no matter how
hypoallergenic an animal is.
jme (08:11):
No, and I mean, if it's that bad, it's probably not even
just a pet either.
It's probably so many otherthings too.
Pate (08:17):
Mm-hmm.
jme (08:17):
That was one that really kind of blew our mind.
But yeah, she just kept buyinganimals like they were shoes and
then trying them out and thengiving them to us.
Pate (08:26):
Yeah.
jme (08:28):
Yeah.
That wasn't a good one.
Pate (08:30):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Another reason why people willsurrender their dogs is because
they've had their dog for years,but they just had a baby.
And now the dog doesn'tappreciate the baby.
This is one of the hardersurrender requests because I've
(08:51):
been there and so it's kind ofhard for me to understand why
you'd want to get rid of yourdog because you had a baby.
Some of the excuses are theydon't have enough time for their
dog, but a dog would prefer halfan hour of your time a day
rather than be stuck in ashelter or possibly even a new
(09:11):
home.
jme (09:12):
They think the grass is greener somewhere else.
They want to kid themselves intothinking there's a better home
that's gonna give more love tothe dog that they've had for 10
years.
Pate (09:20):
Mm-hmm.
jme (09:21):
That's not true.
Pate (09:22):
No.
jme (09:22):
You're gonna give your dog the most love.
You are invested in them, goodand bad, and especially if your
dog has problems, they are onlythe bad problem to anyone else.
No one sees the 99% of good...
Pate (09:35):
Right.
jme (09:35):
That history, that you know and have with them.
You are the only one that seestheir value.
Pate (09:40):
And, and not everyone will surrender their dog because they
have a baby, o bviously becausethere's a lot of dogs with
babies, but it's a matter ofperspective.
And yes, right after you have akid, you're tired.
I mean, the dog's probably tiredtoo because he hasn't gotten a
full night's sleep eitherbecause of the baby crying.
jme (10:00):
Well, and I think when it gets even harder is when the dog
is grumbling.
Or avoiding the child.
Pate (10:10):
Mm-hmm.
jme (10:10):
Or snapping at the child.
Pate (10:13):
It's a toddler phase, because you know, the kids are
now mobile.
They have no idea what they'redoing half the time.
It's your job to train yourchild to respect boundaries.
jme (10:24):
Well, and there are ways to safely manage that...
Pate (10:27):
Baby gate.
jme (10:28):
Yes.
If you need to use a baby gate,if you need to put a muzzle on
your dog, put a basket muzzle onyour dog.
Pate (10:32):
Mm-hmm.
jme (10:32):
So that your dog can't hurt your kid, no matter what your
kid is doing until they learnhow to behave.
Pate (10:38):
Right.
When you're rehoming your dog,because it is not getting along
with your toddler, your child,that's not always fixing the
problem because there's also dogbites that occur from other dogs
because the moral of the storyis that children need to be
trained.
They need to be taught how tobehave around dogs.
jme (11:01):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (11:01):
They need to learn how to, approach dogs appropriately.
They need to learn boundarieswith animals, and we see this
often that kids are not that...
I mean, like an example abouthow our next door neighbor at
the Redmond facility, the kidran across a parking lot to
(11:25):
approach two big ass dogs.
jme (11:28):
Yeah.
One is like almost 200 pounds.
Pate (11:30):
Exactly.
And that child never should havedone that.
My kids learned never to dothat.
jme (11:38):
Well, never mind when the dog kind of lunged towards the
kid, just barking.
Pate (11:43):
Mm-hmm.
jme (11:43):
He pulled the person down, the trainer, right down.
And the parent in thatsituation...
Pate (11:51):
Wasn't even near The kid.
jme (11:52):
Wasn't near the kid didn't look and didn't ask if our
trainer was okay.
So here she is on the ground,she's hurt.
Pate (11:58):
Mm-hmm.
jme (11:58):
And they just walked away.
Pate (12:00):
And the thing is, is that she told that child do not come.
That, you know, don't, don'tcome here.
Like, stay back.
jme (12:09):
Yeah.
The trainer said back, said,stay back.
Stop.
Pate (12:10):
Yeah.
jme (12:10):
And he wouldn't stop.
Pate (12:11):
No, he, he didn't.
And he is lucky that she gotdragged but held on to the
leashes.
If she had dropped the leash andsomething had happened, that kid
trespassed, but the dogswould've been at fault.
jme (12:26):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (12:27):
Because that kid was not taught how.
To actually not approach strangedogs.
jme (12:35):
Right?
Pate (12:35):
Children need to learn boundaries.
They need to learn how to walkup to someone to ask if they can
pet a dog.
If someone tells them to stayback.
From the dogs, they need torespect that as well.
jme (12:50):
I find sometimes kids are smarter than adults about asking
to pet people's dogs and stuff.
And so if it's a dog they don'tknow, kids will often ask, can I
pet your dog?
Which is great because, we had awoman once at an adoption event
and one of my volunteercolleagues was holding this
little dog, and the dog wassnarling at the lady.
(13:13):
And the lady kept trying to gether face closer and closer and
closer to this snarling dog.
And the girl put her hand overthe dog's face and she's like,
Hey, back off like you're makingthis dog uncomfortable.
And the woman's like, no, it'sokay.
I'm a nurse.
And she's like, What?
So you can stitch your own facewhen this dog bites you because
you're not paying attention andwatching its body language.
Pate (13:34):
Yeah.
jme (13:34):
Like what?
I don't think she actually saidthat out loud, she said it
later.
But that's the thing is likethis adult was completely
ignoring all the warning signsand the volunteer had to
advocate for the dog by turningthe dog away, covering their
head.
Pate (13:51):
Mm-hmm.
jme (13:51):
Which is great.
That was a smart volunteer.
You need to teach your kids howto behave appropriately.
Yeah.
And when you say, my kids can doanything to my dog, pull their
ears.
Pull their tail.
Pate (14:02):
That's not okay.
jme (14:03):
That is, that is not a brag.
Pate (14:04):
Mm-hmm.
jme (14:05):
That is you being really, that's really bad...
Pate (14:08):
Inappropriate parenting.
jme (14:10):
That is you allowing your kid to do something that could
potentially kill your dog.
Pate (14:15):
Right.
There was a video out of, Idon't know, like a
three-year-old, a four-year-oldor whatever.
I don't even know where hisbloody parents were.
And he had a water bottle in hishand.
And he was running around andthis guy had a pit bull and was,
I don't know if he was doing avideo of his dog or whatever.
(14:35):
And then this kid just runs up,starts hitting the pit bull with
this water bottle, and theowner, was like, what?
And there's all these otheradults in the background
watching this happen.
And the kid ran to another adultand hit their hands with this
(14:56):
water bottle.
And then after he did that, heran back to the dog.
And then the dog at that pointwas like, what?
And turned around to snap at thekid because I'm sorry, stop
hitting me.
And the owner of the dog, he gotin between and.
And nothing happened to the kid,but this is an example of how
(15:21):
inappropriate kids can be withdogs.
If that pit bull had bitten thatchild, it would've been his
fault, even though there's anadult there who let the kid hit
his hands with the water bottle.
I would've grabbed the kid andbeen like no, stay away from the
dog.
jme (15:36):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (15:36):
Like, why didn't the kid even go back to the dog for the
second time?
jme (15:39):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I would've definitelygrabbed my dog after the first
time I would've been running in.
Yeah.
Pate (15:44):
Well, the kid ran away.
But that's, that's another thingis that in the social media
thread, people were blaming thedog owner.
jme (15:53):
Oh my God.
Really?
Pate (15:53):
Why would you have, yeah, why would you have an aggressive
dog out where...
jme (15:57):
Oh my God, they thought the dog was aggressive?
Pate (15:59):
Yeah, he did not do a damn thing the first time he got hit.
And, and that was the thing.
jme (16:06):
It's definitely cuz it was a pit bull.
Pate (16:08):
Yeah.
But I mean.
jme (16:09):
That's what people see that're people, people believe.
Pate (16:12):
Yeah.
The, the dog owner wasinappropriate.
He didn't advocate for his dogappropriately to let him get
hit.
And I'm sorry if he turnedaround and like pushed that kid
away, he would've been introuble.
jme (16:25):
Yeah.
Pate (16:25):
Instead of like, where was that kid's parents?
jme (16:27):
Right.
Pate (16:27):
And again, The blame is not being...
jme (16:31):
Applied.
Pate (16:32):
Yeah.
Appropriately.
Because the parent of that childwho's like running around, in
that video...
jme (16:37):
Hitting things and people.
Pate (16:38):
Right.
jme (16:39):
And animals.
Pate (16:39):
Yes.
Where was that parent?
jme (16:41):
That was the problem.
Pate (16:42):
There were people that were like, okay, where the hell
is a parent?
jme (16:44):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (16:45):
But these people saying that the owner of the dog was
inappropriate, like they're theproblem as well.
jme (16:51):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (16:51):
Because we have to teach our children.
jme (16:53):
Mm.
Well, what's another issue thatcomes up with kids and dogs
sleeping dogs and kids.
Mm.
That's a big one too.
Pate (17:03):
There is a saying that says, let sleeping dogs lie, and
there's a reason for that.
It's not okay if someone triesto wake up a dog and the dog
bites.
jme (17:13):
Yeah.
Pate (17:13):
Especially if you have an older dog, are they, are they
losing their hearing?
Do they have body aches?
They don't need a little kidjumping on them, et cetera.
But there are some people thatjust throw in the towel and say,
it's not worth it.
jme (17:24):
Yeah.
Or they just instantly say, it'snot safe.
Pate (17:27):
Yeah.
jme (17:28):
Well make it safe because...
Pate (17:30):
Yeah.
jme (17:30):
You've taken on and you've committed to for its lifetime.
Pate (17:33):
Right.
jme (17:33):
Obviously, if this is very severe, then first of all, you
need help.
Pate (17:38):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:38):
You need help to manage it safely in the meantime, no
matter what, because no one'sgonna take your dog right away.
Pate (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:45):
At all.
Pate (17:45):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:45):
So you still need to learn how to manage it.
Pate (17:48):
Right.
jme (17:48):
And you might just find in learning how to manage it
temporarily, that you canactually manage it much longer.
Pate (17:53):
Right.
jme (17:53):
And actually solve the problem and work through the
problem.
Pate (17:56):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:57):
But because, you're like, well, it just needs a home
without kids.
Well, most fosters are not thathome.
Pate (18:04):
Mm-hmm.
jme (18:05):
Like most fosters have other pets and other kids.
So when people try and tell usthat my dog would be great in a
home without kids or otherpets...
Pate (18:13):
Great.
Try to find us that home.
jme (18:15):
Right.
We don't have that.
And adopters are just like you.
They don't want a dog that has abite history.
Pate (18:22):
Mm-hmm.
jme (18:23):
Even adults, even if there are no kids or other pets, they
still don't want a dog that hasa bite history.
Pate (18:28):
Remember your dog with a bite history, you have history
with that dog.
jme (18:34):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (18:35):
Supposedly, I would hope that you loved your dog.
jme (18:38):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (18:38):
And you should want to work with your dog.
Whereas a total stranger, that'sjust a random dog(a random) with
a bite history.
jme (18:45):
Yeah.
A random bad dog in their mind,they don't see any value, they
don't see anything but what thedog did.
Pate (18:51):
Right.
jme (18:52):
And that's where, you know, rethinking your situation...
Pate (18:55):
Mm-hmm.
jme (18:55):
Is the first place we start.
And really, first of all issurrender really what you need
to do?
Pate (19:02):
Mm-hmm.
jme (19:02):
And, and are there other ways to work with it?
What are some of the otherreasons that people contact us
about surrendering theiranimals?
Pate (19:10):
You got a new puppy and your current dog is not a fan of
the puppy, so we need to get ridof the older dog so that we can
keep this puppy.
jme (19:20):
No, just, no.
So that's when we have to tellpeople oh, we're sorry.
Like the puppy is the adoptableone.
Your old dog that trusts you andloves you and has been your
beloved pet for 10 years, theyget to stay with you because
they're your old best friendand...
Pate (19:38):
That's what you should be thinking anyway.
jme (19:40):
Yeah.
And so we will talk to themabout the young adoptable puppy.
You need to love and keep yourold dogs and cats.
Pate (19:50):
Adoption is for their life.
You're looking at 10 to 20years, depending on the age that
you get them, the breed mix, etcetera.
But a adoption is for theirlife.
And even if you purchase a dog,it's for their life, not for
your convenience because youwanted to get a new puppy that
(20:13):
was cute.
Well, and they're getting tooold and they can't walk with you
anymore.
It's...
jme (20:18):
I remember we had, and I don't know actually what
happened to the situation, butone of our adopters wrote and
said, you know, you said whenthe dog gets old and things get
hard, that's when we should callyou and give you the dog back.
And we were like, that is not atall what we said.
How did you slip through?
Pate (20:38):
Mm-hmm.
jme (20:39):
But they were trying to give us the dog now that it was
old and having trouble walkingand whatever happened with that.
Pate (20:46):
They probably never responded back after we said,
what the hell are you thinking?
jme (20:51):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Pate (20:52):
I mean, we would've taken our older dog back, but
jme (20:55):
Yeah.
But like, that wasn't the point.
Pate (20:57):
No.
The point was...
jme (20:58):
Why are you thinking like this?
Pate (21:00):
Exactly.
And like, things are hard, butyou know what?
You're gonna get older and isthat how you wanna be treated?
Because it's inconvenient.
jme (21:08):
Yeah.
Pate (21:09):
You know, they make adult diapers.
Right.
So...
jme (21:12):
And I know we said that in the nicest of ways, like, maybe
you wanna rethink this kind ofthing.
Pate (21:18):
I mean, it could have been like, they just had a really bad
day and they got really stressedand overwhelmed.
So...
jme (21:25):
And that does happen.
Pate (21:26):
It happens to everyone.
Right?
So you want to talk'em off theledge first and see what the
situation really is.
jme (21:32):
And that's what we're trying to do all the time when
people wanna surrender.
Yeah.
We're trying to assess thesituation and our first thought
is, Is it reasonable?
And how can they keep this dog?
Because they're just thinkingthey can't, and maybe it's cuz
they don't want to.
But the reality is, is that mostpeople don't wanna surrender
their animals.
(21:52):
They really don't.
They are frustrated.
They feel like they can't doanymore.
Most people aren't, aren'tcallously just trying to give
away their animals.
And so...
Pate (22:02):
Sometimes.
jme (22:02):
Well obviously sometimes.
Pate (22:04):
All the seniors that get dumped at the shelter.
jme (22:06):
Yeah.
It's not, most people though,like, most people really do love
their dogs and they want to keepthem, but they feel like they
can't.
That's the email that I get moreoften when...
Pate (22:16):
They hit a, they hit a point.
jme (22:17):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (22:18):
And they just need someone to show them a different way.
jme (22:23):
Mm-hmm.
Either offer suggestions andideas of things that they
haven't tried yet.
Pate (22:27):
Mm-hmm.
jme (22:28):
Sometimes they're looking to, like, they'll describe a
terrible situation or somethingthat's extremely unsafe or very
dangerous.
And sometimes I'll say, I don'tthink anyone would blame you for
considering, you know, cuzthey'll say I have to take them
to the vet.
I don't know what else to do.
(22:49):
If it's a super dangeroussituation, like I would never
advise anyone to euthanize theirdog.
But I also think when peoplecome to us, they, they want the
reality (23:02):
is my dog even re homeable?
And when we tell them no andit's hurt somebody or done
something terrible, then they'rejust looking to know that it is
okay that they don't let thatcontinue.
And so sometimes it's, I don'twanna say it's offering them
permission, but it's holdingtheir hand and telling them that
(23:26):
in our professionalexperience...
Pate (23:28):
You need to hold their hand.
jme (23:29):
You need to hold their hand and let that go and let them go.
But you need to be there.
Like, that's the other thing isthat you need to be there.
Pate (23:37):
Yeah.
Sometimes there are dogs who arenot wired right.
And no matter what you do, themanagement of their behavior.
If they have extreme behaviors,then I mean, there is behavioral
euthanasia for a reason.
jme (23:51):
Mm-hmm.
Especially for unpredictablereasons.
Pate (23:54):
Right.
But a, a lot of times somepeople say it's unpredictable
when it's not.
But then that's where we try tofigure out is it really, a loose
screw mm-hmm.
Versus, um, a manageablesituation.
jme (24:10):
Well, and ultimately we're putting the ball back in their
court because we are not gonnatake your dog and find out if it
should be euthanized.
You need to make that decision.
Pate (24:18):
Yeah.
It's your family member.
jme (24:19):
You need to be able to live with it.
You need to be able to make thatdecision, and you need to be
part of the process.
Pate (24:26):
And the worst thing to do is drop it off at the shelter
and make it someone else'sproblem.
jme (24:30):
Yeah.
Don't do that.
Pate (24:32):
It's not fair to the dog
jme (24:33):
Ever, ever, ever.
First of all, most shelters donot give sedatives.
So the animal is completely wideawake and aware, and they go
into this scary situation.
They're held down, and sometimesit's a struggle to get.
The injection in and the dogsand the cats are terrified.
(24:58):
The people are horrified.
It's horrible.
Who wants to do that job?
Who wants to go day in and dayout and hold animals down while
they're terrified?
And be euthanized.
Pate (25:09):
Just spend a little more money and give them sedatives.
jme (25:11):
Its, they can't, they can't, it, it's not their
shelter's fault.
I mean, we know shelters, theycan't even afford to spay a
neuter.
They can't even afford tovaccinate.
It's not their fault, theproblem is people dropping the
animals off and not takingaccountability and
responsibility for that.
That person is traumatized forlife.
For every experience that theyhave, for all the experiences
(25:34):
they have in the shelter, andthey don't need more of that.
And your dog doesn't need to bescared out of its mind with
strangers.
Pate (25:42):
Mm-hmm.
jme (25:42):
In the last moments of its life.
Pate (25:44):
Mm-hmm.
jme (25:44):
You need to love your dog enough to be brave enough to
take them and do that yourselfwhen that is the conclusion that
you come to.
Pate (25:54):
I know that there are people who just cannot be in the
room with their dog to comforttheir dog.
I'm sorry.
I don't understand why.
jme (26:05):
Well, someone in the family should, even if one person
can't, someone needs to.
Pate (26:09):
Right?
I don't understand why.
Because again, you've made itsomeone else's problem.
jme (26:14):
Right.
at the very least in thatsituation, take it to a vet.
That they know, that they mightknow somebody there.
They might know the building andhopefully not be afraid of it.
Pate (26:25):
Mm-hmm.
jme (26:25):
At least try and make the dog familiar and insist that
they have sedatives(right) sothat the dog doesn't even know
what's happening when it'shappening to them.
Pate (26:34):
Yeah.
But.
jme (26:36):
I, I agree with you.
Pate (26:37):
Suck it up sunshine.
jme (26:38):
Yeah.
I, I know we can't use animalsonly when it's good for us and
when it's convenient for us.
Pate (26:45):
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes, like petownership is hard.
Yeah.
And that's one of the hardesttimes.
So.
jme (26:51):
Well, and if you can't afford euthanization, And you
feel that the shelter is anoption, like maybe you can be
there.
I don't know.
I don't know what the rules are.
Pate (27:00):
I don't either.
jme (27:01):
But it's a totally other thing if you really can't afford
to euthanize or theeuthanization is because the
animal's suffering right now andyou can't afford to take them to
a vet or something like that.
That's different than justtaking your animal because you
don't want to be there.
But we actually had a potentialadopter who had twice taken
(27:24):
animals that she had in her lifeto the shelter to be
euthanized...
Pate (27:28):
And saw no problem with that.
jme (27:30):
And yeah, and we were just like...
Pate (27:31):
Yeah, no.
jme (27:32):
I, I mean, we were nice about it because we were like,
you probably don't know...
Pate (27:36):
Jme was nice about it.
jme (27:39):
You probably don't know, but this is a really terrifying
thing for your animal.
This is a horrible thing forother people.
The people that have to be thereand do that, like you can't do
that.
And unfortunately, we can't putour animal in that position
where you could choose thatagain.
And we're sorry that that's thecase.
(28:00):
But we hope that after you'veheard our perspective and
understand the perspective ofthe people doing the
euthanization, that you wouldnever do that again.
But we don't know.
And we're sorry it's not gonnawork out with us.
But yeah, she was mad and.
And it wasn't a financial thing.
Pate (28:16):
Mm-hmm.
jme (28:17):
And we said that too.
We said if it was a financialthing, then that's one thing.
It's still not great, but like,please do better next time is
what we said in the nicest waypossible.
You can't do that.
You just can't do that.
You can't do that to theanimals.
You can't do that to people.
Pate (28:31):
It's just not fair.
jme (28:32):
No.
Well, we've run out of timeagain this week.
We seem to do that a lot, but wedon't need a second episode for
this one.
Pate (28:40):
Are you sure?
jme (28:41):
Well, I think so.
I am Jme.
Pate (28:44):
This is Pate.
jme (28:45):
And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue.
Pate (28:47):
And this is our podcast Rescue Shit.
Rock On.
jme (28:51):
Rescue On.
I forgot that part.
Pate (28:53):
What?
jme (28:54):
The Rock On Rescue on, I always forget.
Yo.
This is Pate.
jme (00:07):
And I'm Jme.
Pate (00:08):
And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue, and this is our
podcast
jme (00:11):
Rescue Shit.
This week we're going to talkabout surrendering animals.
This is one of the ways thatanimals come to us, and we're
gonna talk a little bit aboutsome of the reasons people, end
up wanting to give their animalsaway.
Pate (00:25):
The majority of the animals that we get come from
shelters or other rescues.
Many of them are medical needs.
Sometimes the vet calls.
Because they have a medical needin the ER, for example.
So that's the majority of ouranimals is from the shelters and
rescues that we help.
(00:46):
But a small portion that we takein our owner surrenders.
jme (00:51):
One of our least favorite reasons people give for giving
up an animal is moving.
I am moving to an apartment thatdoesn't allow dogs and I can't
take my husky.
There's about a billion huskiesin the shelter right now.
Well, you have to find a placethat's gonna take your Husky or
I don't know what you're gonnado.
Like literally, I don't know.
So what do you have to say aboutthat?
Pate (01:13):
Well, obviously part of the problem with the breed
restrictions is that it's such ageneral blanket for apartment
complexes.
I think that if more peopletrain their animals and more
people got, as much as I don'tlike the AKC, the CGC is a
really valid, trainingguideline.
jme (01:33):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (01:34):
And to how to train these dogs to be good citizens, right?
So I think like apartmentcomplexes or landlords or
whatever should, if a dog is CGCcertified, kind of like waive
that whole like, breedrestriction thing.
jme (01:47):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (01:48):
That's a personal opinion.
jme (01:49):
But most of the time the animals aren't that well behaved
and that's part of the problem.
Pate (01:53):
Mm-hmm.
jme (01:53):
Because if they were well behaved, then they would be
keeping them and they would befinding a home that would let
them in because they would be agood dog.
It's a convenient way to say Ididn't train my dog and I'm
moving now...
Pate (02:05):
But sometimes apartments, I mean, look at the apartments
around here.
How many allow pets and how manyallow pets without a weight
restriction.
jme (02:16):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (02:16):
You know, and then Huskies are again, like a breed that is
restricted, for example.
jme (02:22):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (02:23):
They're on the list of restrictions cuz of a, they love
to sing except mine is defectiveand doesn't make a noise.
And actually Axl is being quietfor him, but at night he sings
like a mother.
jme (02:37):
He's actually being really good.
Pate (02:39):
But t hey have certain breed restrictions, based on, I
guess like vocalization,destructiveness, and, quote
unquote aggression.
But if people trained their dogsand had CGCs...
jme (02:52):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (02:53):
And things like that I think landlords should take that
into consideration because youcan have an untrained ESA
(emotional support animal).
But as long as you have thatnote from the doctor that says
that I need an emotional supportanimal for whatever medical
reason, landlords have to letyou.
jme (03:10):
Well, and that's a whole other episode on its own...
I wanna say that there arepeople that are moving for
legitimate financial reasons andthey've lost their home, or
they've lost their job and likewe are not minimizing their
situation, nor are we judgingthem for that.
But a lot of times that is notthe situation.
Pate (03:26):
Yeah.
Right.
How many times have, I mean, howmany times have we moved with
animals?
jme (03:30):
Right.
Exactly.
Pate (03:31):
I mean, I moved from Florida to Washington.
jme (03:34):
Yeah.
Pate (03:34):
I mean, we drove in a Suburban,(yeah) with three cats,
two ferrets, three dogs, and twokids.
jme (03:43):
Mm-hmm.
And that's what a rescuer woulddo.
But that is not what most peoplewould do.
Pate (03:49):
No reason why you can't, if I can do it, you can too..
jme (03:51):
Right.
Exactly.
And we're talking about themajority of the times when it's
not because of some reallyserious problem that they can't
resolve or there's also like I'mleaving my abusive relationship.
Pate (04:06):
Yeah.
jme (04:06):
And I can't take my dog cuz I don't...
Pate (04:08):
Because the women's shelters won't let you.
jme (04:10):
Right.
And I don't even know where I'mgonna be.
Of course.
(mm-hmm) that happens and we'vehelped those people and we tell
them contact us when you getsafe and if we still have your
animal then great, you can takethem back, but if not, we have
to adopt them out.
Pate (04:24):
Mm-hmm.
jme (04:24):
Like that's the process.
We have to be doing that.
And they understand that, andthey're willing to give up their
animals because they want what'sbest for them.
Pate (04:32):
Mm-hmm.
jme (04:32):
And they need to figure out what they're gonna do with
themselves.
And so this is not like we haveno pity or understanding or, or
compassion for people interrible situations.
Pate (04:41):
Right.
jme (04:41):
It's quite the opposite.
Pate (04:42):
Right.
jme (04:43):
It's that most of the time people aren't in those
situations or they've neglectedto take care of the situation
first and then their emergencybecomes our problem.
And that's hard because nothinghappens quickly, really, in
rescue.
And we need to find a, a homefor your animal.
And then when you tell us thatit has all these problems that
(05:03):
you've never dealt with that'sgonna be a hard thing to find a
foster home for.
Pate (05:07):
Right.
jme (05:08):
And then, a lot of times too, we'll say, I'm sorry, the
shelter is gonna be the fastest.
That's not even true anymore.
It used to be, right?
Pate (05:15):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
jme (05:15):
It used to be the fastest, but right now it's like...
Pate (05:18):
The adoptions are low.
jme (05:19):
Yeah.
It's like a four to six weekwaiting list(yeah) for anybody
to surrender a dog.
Pate (05:23):
Which is crazy.
jme (05:24):
It is crazy.
Then a lot of people are like,well, I don't want my dog to be
in a shelter.
Well, you also can't really pickor choose because...
Pate (05:31):
Yeah.
jme (05:31):
I'm sorry.
Pate (05:32):
You're giving up your dog.
I don't want your dog in ashelter either.
I'd rather your dog stay withyou.
jme (05:35):
Right.
That's exactly it.
So moving is a tough one butthere are a lot of people who
chronically rehome their petswhen they move and I would say
even cats, which I don't reallyget, like people who rehome
their cats when they move.
Pate (05:49):
Because you're just like, oh, you know, if I move then
whatever, I'm not even gonnatry.
jme (05:54):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (05:55):
Hmm.
jme (05:56):
Well, what about allergies?
I would say this is more commonwith cats than with dogs And
Pate (06:02):
that's a legitimate thing, right?
You have a baby and then thebaby is allergic.
That's a medical condition.
jme (06:10):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (06:11):
I don't wanna say it's a valid excuse compared to others,
but I mean, it's a medicalcondition that that could it
could have ramifications on achild's health.
Right?
jme (06:19):
Yeah.
I mean, we're not trying tojudge the reasons, we're just
giving the reasons.
Pate (06:23):
Right.
jme (06:23):
It's definitely one that is understandable and I guess
reasonable more...
Pate (06:29):
Well because it's not a behavioral issue.
jme (06:30):
I'm not saying that if your kid's allergic that you should
continue to do this, b ut kidsthat grow up with pets actually
tend to have less allergies thanthose that don't.
So getting rid of your petsbefore you have a kid, just for
the sake of that is not a goodidea.
Pate (06:45):
Mm-hmm.
jme (06:46):
I remember one lady, she was like, I'm about to have a
baby and the litter box is dirtyand I don't want my child
crawling on the same floor asthe cat where the cat walks.
And I was like, that's not okayat all.
Pate (07:00):
Your kid's gonna be dirty as hell.
Yeah.
Don't take it to a daycare then.
jme (07:03):
Right?
Like your kid's going to eatdirt.
And you
Pate (07:06):
And I can say that cuz I'm a parent.
Kids are dirty.
jme (07:09):
Yeah.
Litter boxes are, they're notclean, but they're cleaner than
a lot of places that your kidsare gonna put their hands in...
Pate (07:15):
Sandbox.
jme (07:16):
Mouth and everything.
So, you know, that's a reallyskewed concept.
That's a bad idea.
And, and that's not Okay.
Pate (07:25):
Here's a thought.
Clean your litter box.
jme (07:28):
Yeah.
Pate (07:28):
You know, I mean, Baby gate.
Hello.
jme (07:32):
Yeah.
I don't remember what she saidand I said it very nicely.
Pate (07:35):
Mm-hmm.
I was gonna say, remember therewas this family had surrendered
multiple animals to us becausetheir child was allergic and
they kept trying differentthings.
jme (07:46):
Yes.
Pate (07:47):
With the kid...
jme (07:48):
The hairless cat.
A dog...
Pate (07:51):
Uhhuh.
jme (07:51):
Two dogs, right?
Pate (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
jme (07:53):
Two dogs.
Yeah.
And the woman kept buying, dogbuying pets.
Pate (07:57):
Mm-hmm.
jme (07:57):
Like at thousands and thousands of dollars...
Pate (07:59):
Because they're quote unquote hypoallergenic, and it's
like, okay, you realize the furmaybe, but I think your kid's
allergic to the saliva, which isnot gonna help no matter how
hypoallergenic an animal is.
jme (08:11):
No, and I mean, if it's that bad, it's probably not even
just a pet either.
It's probably so many otherthings too.
Pate (08:17):
Mm-hmm.
jme (08:17):
That was one that really kind of blew our mind.
But yeah, she just kept buyinganimals like they were shoes and
then trying them out and thengiving them to us.
Pate (08:26):
Yeah.
jme (08:28):
Yeah.
That wasn't a good one.
Pate (08:30):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Another reason why people willsurrender their dogs is because
they've had their dog for years,but they just had a baby.
And now the dog doesn'tappreciate the baby.
This is one of the hardersurrender requests because I've
(08:51):
been there and so it's kind ofhard for me to understand why
you'd want to get rid of yourdog because you had a baby.
Some of the excuses are theydon't have enough time for their
dog, but a dog would prefer halfan hour of your time a day
rather than be stuck in ashelter or possibly even a new
(09:11):
home.
jme (09:12):
They think the grass is greener somewhere else.
They want to kid themselves intothinking there's a better home
that's gonna give more love tothe dog that they've had for 10
years.
Pate (09:20):
Mm-hmm.
jme (09:21):
That's not true.
Pate (09:22):
No.
jme (09:22):
You're gonna give your dog the most love.
You are invested in them, goodand bad, and especially if your
dog has problems, they are onlythe bad problem to anyone else.
No one sees the 99% of good...
Pate (09:35):
Right.
jme (09:35):
That history, that you know and have with them.
You are the only one that seestheir value.
Pate (09:40):
And, and not everyone will surrender their dog because they
have a baby, o bviously becausethere's a lot of dogs with
babies, but it's a matter ofperspective.
And yes, right after you have akid, you're tired.
I mean, the dog's probably tiredtoo because he hasn't gotten a
full night's sleep eitherbecause of the baby crying.
jme (10:00):
Well, and I think when it gets even harder is when the dog
is grumbling.
Or avoiding the child.
Pate (10:10):
Mm-hmm.
jme (10:10):
Or snapping at the child.
Pate (10:13):
It's a toddler phase, because you know, the kids are
now mobile.
They have no idea what they'redoing half the time.
It's your job to train yourchild to respect boundaries.
jme (10:24):
Well, and there are ways to safely manage that...
Pate (10:27):
Baby gate.
jme (10:28):
Yes.
If you need to use a baby gate,if you need to put a muzzle on
your dog, put a basket muzzle onyour dog.
Pate (10:32):
Mm-hmm.
jme (10:32):
So that your dog can't hurt your kid, no matter what your
kid is doing until they learnhow to behave.
Pate (10:38):
Right.
When you're rehoming your dog,because it is not getting along
with your toddler, your child,that's not always fixing the
problem because there's also dogbites that occur from other dogs
because the moral of the storyis that children need to be
trained.
They need to be taught how tobehave around dogs.
jme (11:01):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (11:01):
They need to learn how to, approach dogs appropriately.
They need to learn boundarieswith animals, and we see this
often that kids are not that...
I mean, like an example abouthow our next door neighbor at
the Redmond facility, the kidran across a parking lot to
(11:25):
approach two big ass dogs.
jme (11:28):
Yeah.
One is like almost 200 pounds.
Pate (11:30):
Exactly.
And that child never should havedone that.
My kids learned never to dothat.
jme (11:38):
Well, never mind when the dog kind of lunged towards the
kid, just barking.
Pate (11:43):
Mm-hmm.
jme (11:43):
He pulled the person down, the trainer, right down.
And the parent in thatsituation...
Pate (11:51):
Wasn't even near The kid.
jme (11:52):
Wasn't near the kid didn't look and didn't ask if our
trainer was okay.
So here she is on the ground,she's hurt.
Pate (11:58):
Mm-hmm.
jme (11:58):
And they just walked away.
Pate (12:00):
And the thing is, is that she told that child do not come.
That, you know, don't, don'tcome here.
Like, stay back.
jme (12:09):
Yeah.
The trainer said back, said,stay back.
Stop.
Pate (12:10):
Yeah.
jme (12:10):
And he wouldn't stop.
Pate (12:11):
No, he, he didn't.
And he is lucky that she gotdragged but held on to the
leashes.
If she had dropped the leash andsomething had happened, that kid
trespassed, but the dogswould've been at fault.
jme (12:26):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (12:27):
Because that kid was not taught how.
To actually not approach strangedogs.
jme (12:35):
Right?
Pate (12:35):
Children need to learn boundaries.
They need to learn how to walkup to someone to ask if they can
pet a dog.
If someone tells them to stayback.
From the dogs, they need torespect that as well.
jme (12:50):
I find sometimes kids are smarter than adults about asking
to pet people's dogs and stuff.
And so if it's a dog they don'tknow, kids will often ask, can I
pet your dog?
Which is great because, we had awoman once at an adoption event
and one of my volunteercolleagues was holding this
little dog, and the dog wassnarling at the lady.
(13:13):
And the lady kept trying to gether face closer and closer and
closer to this snarling dog.
And the girl put her hand overthe dog's face and she's like,
Hey, back off like you're makingthis dog uncomfortable.
And the woman's like, no, it'sokay.
I'm a nurse.
And she's like, What?
So you can stitch your own facewhen this dog bites you because
you're not paying attention andwatching its body language.
Pate (13:34):
Yeah.
jme (13:34):
Like what?
I don't think she actually saidthat out loud, she said it
later.
But that's the thing is likethis adult was completely
ignoring all the warning signsand the volunteer had to
advocate for the dog by turningthe dog away, covering their
head.
Pate (13:51):
Mm-hmm.
jme (13:51):
Which is great.
That was a smart volunteer.
You need to teach your kids howto behave appropriately.
Yeah.
And when you say, my kids can doanything to my dog, pull their
ears.
Pull their tail.
Pate (14:02):
That's not okay.
jme (14:03):
That is, that is not a brag.
Pate (14:04):
Mm-hmm.
jme (14:05):
That is you being really, that's really bad...
Pate (14:08):
Inappropriate parenting.
jme (14:10):
That is you allowing your kid to do something that could
potentially kill your dog.
Pate (14:15):
Right.
There was a video out of, Idon't know, like a
three-year-old, a four-year-oldor whatever.
I don't even know where hisbloody parents were.
And he had a water bottle in hishand.
And he was running around andthis guy had a pit bull and was,
I don't know if he was doing avideo of his dog or whatever.
(14:35):
And then this kid just runs up,starts hitting the pit bull with
this water bottle, and theowner, was like, what?
And there's all these otheradults in the background
watching this happen.
And the kid ran to another adultand hit their hands with this
(14:56):
water bottle.
And then after he did that, heran back to the dog.
And then the dog at that pointwas like, what?
And turned around to snap at thekid because I'm sorry, stop
hitting me.
And the owner of the dog, he gotin between and.
And nothing happened to the kid,but this is an example of how
(15:21):
inappropriate kids can be withdogs.
If that pit bull had bitten thatchild, it would've been his
fault, even though there's anadult there who let the kid hit
his hands with the water bottle.
I would've grabbed the kid andbeen like no, stay away from the
dog.
jme (15:36):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (15:36):
Like, why didn't the kid even go back to the dog for the
second time?
jme (15:39):
Mm-hmm.
Well, I would've definitelygrabbed my dog after the first
time I would've been running in.
Yeah.
Pate (15:44):
Well, the kid ran away.
But that's, that's another thingis that in the social media
thread, people were blaming thedog owner.
jme (15:53):
Oh my God.
Really?
Pate (15:53):
Why would you have, yeah, why would you have an aggressive
dog out where...
jme (15:57):
Oh my God, they thought the dog was aggressive?
Pate (15:59):
Yeah, he did not do a damn thing the first time he got hit.
And, and that was the thing.
jme (16:06):
It's definitely cuz it was a pit bull.
Pate (16:08):
Yeah.
But I mean.
jme (16:09):
That's what people see that're people, people believe.
Pate (16:12):
Yeah.
The, the dog owner wasinappropriate.
He didn't advocate for his dogappropriately to let him get
hit.
And I'm sorry if he turnedaround and like pushed that kid
away, he would've been introuble.
jme (16:25):
Yeah.
Pate (16:25):
Instead of like, where was that kid's parents?
jme (16:27):
Right.
Pate (16:27):
And again, The blame is not being...
jme (16:31):
Applied.
Pate (16:32):
Yeah.
Appropriately.
Because the parent of that childwho's like running around, in
that video...
jme (16:37):
Hitting things and people.
Pate (16:38):
Right.
jme (16:39):
And animals.
Pate (16:39):
Yes.
Where was that parent?
jme (16:41):
That was the problem.
Pate (16:42):
There were people that were like, okay, where the hell
is a parent?
jme (16:44):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (16:45):
But these people saying that the owner of the dog was
inappropriate, like they're theproblem as well.
jme (16:51):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (16:51):
Because we have to teach our children.
jme (16:53):
Mm.
Well, what's another issue thatcomes up with kids and dogs
sleeping dogs and kids.
Mm.
That's a big one too.
Pate (17:03):
There is a saying that says, let sleeping dogs lie, and
there's a reason for that.
It's not okay if someone triesto wake up a dog and the dog
bites.
jme (17:13):
Yeah.
Pate (17:13):
Especially if you have an older dog, are they, are they
losing their hearing?
Do they have body aches?
They don't need a little kidjumping on them, et cetera.
But there are some people thatjust throw in the towel and say,
it's not worth it.
jme (17:24):
Yeah.
Or they just instantly say, it'snot safe.
Pate (17:27):
Yeah.
jme (17:28):
Well make it safe because...
Pate (17:30):
Yeah.
jme (17:30):
You've taken on and you've committed to for its lifetime.
Pate (17:33):
Right.
jme (17:33):
Obviously, if this is very severe, then first of all, you
need help.
Pate (17:38):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:38):
You need help to manage it safely in the meantime, no
matter what, because no one'sgonna take your dog right away.
Pate (17:44):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:45):
At all.
Pate (17:45):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:45):
So you still need to learn how to manage it.
Pate (17:48):
Right.
jme (17:48):
And you might just find in learning how to manage it
temporarily, that you canactually manage it much longer.
Pate (17:53):
Right.
jme (17:53):
And actually solve the problem and work through the
problem.
Pate (17:56):
Mm-hmm.
jme (17:57):
But because, you're like, well, it just needs a home
without kids.
Well, most fosters are not thathome.
Pate (18:04):
Mm-hmm.
jme (18:05):
Like most fosters have other pets and other kids.
So when people try and tell usthat my dog would be great in a
home without kids or otherpets...
Pate (18:13):
Great.
Try to find us that home.
jme (18:15):
Right.
We don't have that.
And adopters are just like you.
They don't want a dog that has abite history.
Pate (18:22):
Mm-hmm.
jme (18:23):
Even adults, even if there are no kids or other pets, they
still don't want a dog that hasa bite history.
Pate (18:28):
Remember your dog with a bite history, you have history
with that dog.
jme (18:34):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (18:35):
Supposedly, I would hope that you loved your dog.
jme (18:38):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (18:38):
And you should want to work with your dog.
Whereas a total stranger, that'sjust a random dog(a random) with
a bite history.
jme (18:45):
Yeah.
A random bad dog in their mind,they don't see any value, they
don't see anything but what thedog did.
Pate (18:51):
Right.
jme (18:52):
And that's where, you know, rethinking your situation...
Pate (18:55):
Mm-hmm.
jme (18:55):
Is the first place we start.
And really, first of all issurrender really what you need
to do?
Pate (19:02):
Mm-hmm.
jme (19:02):
And, and are there other ways to work with it?
What are some of the otherreasons that people contact us
about surrendering theiranimals?
Pate (19:10):
You got a new puppy and your current dog is not a fan of
the puppy, so we need to get ridof the older dog so that we can
keep this puppy.
jme (19:20):
No, just, no.
So that's when we have to tellpeople oh, we're sorry.
Like the puppy is the adoptableone.
Your old dog that trusts you andloves you and has been your
beloved pet for 10 years, theyget to stay with you because
they're your old best friendand...
Pate (19:38):
That's what you should be thinking anyway.
jme (19:40):
Yeah.
And so we will talk to themabout the young adoptable puppy.
You need to love and keep yourold dogs and cats.
Pate (19:50):
Adoption is for their life.
You're looking at 10 to 20years, depending on the age that
you get them, the breed mix, etcetera.
But a adoption is for theirlife.
And even if you purchase a dog,it's for their life, not for
your convenience because youwanted to get a new puppy that
(20:13):
was cute.
Well, and they're getting tooold and they can't walk with you
anymore.
It's...
jme (20:18):
I remember we had, and I don't know actually what
happened to the situation, butone of our adopters wrote and
said, you know, you said whenthe dog gets old and things get
hard, that's when we should callyou and give you the dog back.
And we were like, that is not atall what we said.
How did you slip through?
Pate (20:38):
Mm-hmm.
jme (20:39):
But they were trying to give us the dog now that it was
old and having trouble walkingand whatever happened with that.
Pate (20:46):
They probably never responded back after we said,
what the hell are you thinking?
jme (20:51):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Pate (20:52):
I mean, we would've taken our older dog back, but
jme (20:55):
Yeah.
But like, that wasn't the point.
Pate (20:57):
No.
The point was...
jme (20:58):
Why are you thinking like this?
Pate (21:00):
Exactly.
And like, things are hard, butyou know what?
You're gonna get older and isthat how you wanna be treated?
Because it's inconvenient.
jme (21:08):
Yeah.
Pate (21:09):
You know, they make adult diapers.
Right.
So...
jme (21:12):
And I know we said that in the nicest of ways, like, maybe
you wanna rethink this kind ofthing.
Pate (21:18):
I mean, it could have been like, they just had a really bad
day and they got really stressedand overwhelmed.
So...
jme (21:25):
And that does happen.
Pate (21:26):
It happens to everyone.
Right?
So you want to talk'em off theledge first and see what the
situation really is.
jme (21:32):
And that's what we're trying to do all the time when
people wanna surrender.
Yeah.
We're trying to assess thesituation and our first thought
is, Is it reasonable?
And how can they keep this dog?
Because they're just thinkingthey can't, and maybe it's cuz
they don't want to.
But the reality is, is that mostpeople don't wanna surrender
their animals.
(21:52):
They really don't.
They are frustrated.
They feel like they can't doanymore.
Most people aren't, aren'tcallously just trying to give
away their animals.
And so...
Pate (22:02):
Sometimes.
jme (22:02):
Well obviously sometimes.
Pate (22:04):
All the seniors that get dumped at the shelter.
jme (22:06):
Yeah.
It's not, most people though,like, most people really do love
their dogs and they want to keepthem, but they feel like they
can't.
That's the email that I get moreoften when...
Pate (22:16):
They hit a, they hit a point.
jme (22:17):
Mm-hmm.
Pate (22:18):
And they just need someone to show them a different way.
jme (22:23):
Mm-hmm.
Either offer suggestions andideas of things that they
haven't tried yet.
Pate (22:27):
Mm-hmm.
jme (22:28):
Sometimes they're looking to, like, they'll describe a
terrible situation or somethingthat's extremely unsafe or very
dangerous.
And sometimes I'll say, I don'tthink anyone would blame you for
considering, you know, cuzthey'll say I have to take them
to the vet.
I don't know what else to do.
(22:49):
If it's a super dangeroussituation, like I would never
advise anyone to euthanize theirdog.
But I also think when peoplecome to us, they, they want the
reality (23:02):
is my dog even re homeable?
And when we tell them no andit's hurt somebody or done
something terrible, then they'rejust looking to know that it is
okay that they don't let thatcontinue.
And so sometimes it's, I don'twanna say it's offering them
permission, but it's holdingtheir hand and telling them that
(23:26):
in our professionalexperience...
Pate (23:28):
You need to hold their hand.
jme (23:29):
You need to hold their hand and let that go and let them go.
But you need to be there.
Like, that's the other thing isthat you need to be there.
Pate (23:37):
Yeah.
Sometimes there are dogs who arenot wired right.
And no matter what you do, themanagement of their behavior.
If they have extreme behaviors,then I mean, there is behavioral
euthanasia for a reason.
jme (23:51):
Mm-hmm.
Especially for unpredictablereasons.
Pate (23:54):
Right.
But a, a lot of times somepeople say it's unpredictable
when it's not.
But then that's where we try tofigure out is it really, a loose
screw mm-hmm.
Versus, um, a manageablesituation.
jme (24:10):
Well, and ultimately we're putting the ball back in their
court because we are not gonnatake your dog and find out if it
should be euthanized.
You need to make that decision.
Pate (24:18):
Yeah.
It's your family member.
jme (24:19):
You need to be able to live with it.
You need to be able to make thatdecision, and you need to be
part of the process.
Pate (24:26):
And the worst thing to do is drop it off at the shelter
and make it someone else'sproblem.
jme (24:30):
Yeah.
Don't do that.
Pate (24:32):
It's not fair to the dog
jme (24:33):
Ever, ever, ever.
First of all, most shelters donot give sedatives.
So the animal is completely wideawake and aware, and they go
into this scary situation.
They're held down, and sometimesit's a struggle to get.
The injection in and the dogsand the cats are terrified.
(24:58):
The people are horrified.
It's horrible.
Who wants to do that job?
Who wants to go day in and dayout and hold animals down while
they're terrified?
And be euthanized.
Pate (25:09):
Just spend a little more money and give them sedatives.
jme (25:11):
Its, they can't, they can't, it, it's not their
shelter's fault.
I mean, we know shelters, theycan't even afford to spay a
neuter.
They can't even afford tovaccinate.
It's not their fault, theproblem is people dropping the
animals off and not takingaccountability and
responsibility for that.
That person is traumatized forlife.
For every experience that theyhave, for all the experiences
(25:34):
they have in the shelter, andthey don't need more of that.
And your dog doesn't need to bescared out of its mind with
strangers.
Pate (25:42):
Mm-hmm.
jme (25:42):
In the last moments of its life.
Pate (25:44):
Mm-hmm.
jme (25:44):
You need to love your dog enough to be brave enough to
take them and do that yourselfwhen that is the conclusion that
you come to.
Pate (25:54):
I know that there are people who just cannot be in the
room with their dog to comforttheir dog.
I'm sorry.
I don't understand why.
jme (26:05):
Well, someone in the family should, even if one person
can't, someone needs to.
Pate (26:09):
Right?
I don't understand why.
Because again, you've made itsomeone else's problem.
jme (26:14):
Right.
at the very least in thatsituation, take it to a vet.
That they know, that they mightknow somebody there.
They might know the building andhopefully not be afraid of it.
Pate (26:25):
Mm-hmm.
jme (26:25):
At least try and make the dog familiar and insist that
they have sedatives(right) sothat the dog doesn't even know
what's happening when it'shappening to them.
Pate (26:34):
Yeah.
But.
jme (26:36):
I, I agree with you.
Pate (26:37):
Suck it up sunshine.
jme (26:38):
Yeah.
I, I know we can't use animalsonly when it's good for us and
when it's convenient for us.
Pate (26:45):
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes, like petownership is hard.
Yeah.
And that's one of the hardesttimes.
So.
jme (26:51):
Well, and if you can't afford euthanization, And you
feel that the shelter is anoption, like maybe you can be
there.
I don't know.
I don't know what the rules are.
Pate (27:00):
I don't either.
jme (27:01):
But it's a totally other thing if you really can't afford
to euthanize or theeuthanization is because the
animal's suffering right now andyou can't afford to take them to
a vet or something like that.
That's different than justtaking your animal because you
don't want to be there.
But we actually had a potentialadopter who had twice taken
(27:24):
animals that she had in her lifeto the shelter to be
euthanized...
Pate (27:28):
And saw no problem with that.
jme (27:30):
And yeah, and we were just like...
Pate (27:31):
Yeah, no.
jme (27:32):
I, I mean, we were nice about it because we were like,
you probably don't know...
Pate (27:36):
Jme was nice about it.
jme (27:39):
You probably don't know, but this is a really terrifying
thing for your animal.
This is a horrible thing forother people.
The people that have to be thereand do that, like you can't do
that.
And unfortunately, we can't putour animal in that position
where you could choose thatagain.
And we're sorry that that's thecase.
(28:00):
But we hope that after you'veheard our perspective and
understand the perspective ofthe people doing the
euthanization, that you wouldnever do that again.
But we don't know.
And we're sorry it's not gonnawork out with us.
But yeah, she was mad and.
And it wasn't a financial thing.
Pate (28:16):
Mm-hmm.
jme (28:17):
And we said that too.
We said if it was a financialthing, then that's one thing.
It's still not great, but like,please do better next time is
what we said in the nicest waypossible.
You can't do that.
You just can't do that.
You can't do that to theanimals.
You can't do that to people.
Pate (28:31):
It's just not fair.
jme (28:32):
No.
Well, we've run out of timeagain this week.
We seem to do that a lot, but wedon't need a second episode for
this one.
Pate (28:40):
Are you sure?
jme (28:41):
Well, I think so.
I am Jme.
Pate (28:44):
This is Pate.
jme (28:45):
And we are Motley Zoo Animal Rescue.
Pate (28:47):
And this is our podcast Rescue Shit.
Rock On.
jme (28:51):
Rescue On.
I forgot that part.
Pate (28:53):
What?
jme (28:54):
The Rock On Rescue on, I always forget.
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