June 15, 2023 • 27 mins
This episode discusses a bit about compassion fatigue- a common affliction with many animal welfare agents. We talk about the symptoms and some ways to cope- and next week we go more in-depth about our experiences, losses, and emotions surrounding our work and the people we know.
Pictured is our Adoptable Roadie, Idris Elba, a sweet and loving boy still looking for his home.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:55):
I'm Patty.
No, I'm not Patty.
Why do I do that?
I'm Jme.
You wish she was Pate?
I know.
I'm Jme.
I'm Pate.
And this is Motley Zoo AnimalRescue and our podcast Rescue
Shit.
We lost our squeaker.
Where?
Seriously, who took thesqueaker?
(01:15):
So compassion fatigue, we wantto kind of give you an idea of
what it is.
And it's basically the generalfeeling that you have no more
empathy to give.
It's usually something thathealthcare workers, first
responders, you know, those kindof people, social workers that
are helping people chronicallyas a job.
(01:37):
Right.
And it also very much affectsanimal welfare people and vets.
Especially vets.
Yeah, definitely.
And there are some warning signsand sometimes they come on
subtly, sometimes they just areoverwhelming.
But ultimately the result isburnout.
(01:59):
Mm-hmm.
In the end.
They just get exhausted.
Yeah.
The signs of compassion fatigueare feelings of helplessness and
powerlessness in the face ofsuffering, reduce feelings of
empathy and sensitivity.
Feeling overwhelmed andexhausted by work demands,
feeling detached, numb andemotionally disconnected.
Loss of interest in activitiesyou use to enjoy.
(02:23):
So I would say we have a few ofthose.
Yeah, I mean, totally.
I would say like my compassionfatigue at the moment would be
the feeling overwhelmed andexhausted.
Because I mean, if anyone'slooked at our post lately, it's,
you know, urgent, I needfosters.
(02:45):
I need fosters, I need fosters.
We cannot keep up.
And I don't even know how Yakimadoes it, honestly, like Bev and
Shelly, like, kudos to youbecause damn.
You know, because I see all therequests that they have.
It's puppies upon puppies uponpuppies, and I mean, dogs
getting hit, dogs gettingabandoned, skinny dogs.
(03:08):
And I mean, it's never bloodyending.
I mean, come on.
Well, and even just before weturned on the recording, you
were looking at the email andyou're like, surrender,
surrender, surrender, surrender.
Yeah.
And I've been trying to dealwith them a couple at a time.
Every day.
But it's just every time I seethat in the inbox, my heart
(03:29):
drops and I just think I have topsych myself up for this.
Yeah.
So it is bad.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, yeah, I think we justhave chronic compassion fatigue,
but it's not stopping us(right)from moving forward.
Whereas for some people, itreally does stop them from
moving forward or they have toquit their jobs.
(03:49):
Mm-hmm.
Because they cannot handle anymore responsibility like of that
being in front of people,suffering or animals suffering.
Mm-hmm.
So that is the definition ofcompassion fatigue and we'll
just talk a little bit aboutsome of our experiences and our
concerns and how to helpyourself if you need that, or
(04:10):
maybe you know someone who does.
Besides the symptoms ofcompassion fatigue, there are
actually four stages.
You know, like the stages ofgrief when someone dies, there's
the zealot phase, the withdrawalphase, the irritability phase.
Oh, that's me.
And the zombie phase.
That's it.
(04:31):
I was gonna say, I'm one andthree.
So the zealot phase, and this ison a site, you know, kind of
specified for veterinarians, butthey feel committed, available,
ready to make a difference.
Willingly work long hours,enthusiasm is unending.
That's definitely how mostpeople start whether they're,
you know, a staff person or avolunteer.
(04:52):
Then withdrawal phase.
The second stage is whenenthusiasm turns sour and the
bubbles burst.
Complaints about work begin tosurface.
The individual's tired all thetime and avoids talking about
work.
He or she begins neglectingfamily, coworkers, clients, or
him or herself.
I would say it doesn't have togo to that point, but the
(05:13):
complaining about work that andthe bubble bursting, that's
definitely, part of it for sure.
Irritability phase, this personstarts avoiding, it says patient
or client contact, but thatwould just be human contact
probably.
The use of humor is strained.
Lapses of concentration beginoccurring.
People distance themselvesfurther from family and friends.
(05:36):
Then there's...
That, I feel it's kind of weirdthat compassion fatigue, they
would distance themselves awayfrom their family and friends.
Like...
Maybe cuz people can't...
That, that almost seems like afrigging depression kind of
thing rather than compassionfatigue per se.
That's just my thoughts.
Well it is a kind of depressionreally.
(05:58):
I mean it that hopelessness.
So the zombie phase.
All hopelessness turns to rage.
The person begins to loathe anyand all people, including
coworkers.
Others become incompetent.
And there's a disdain forpatients.
And clients.
And patience is minimal.
Patience- the person's patience.
Right.
Right.
So I can see some people I knowin those different phases.
(06:22):
And maybe that kind of tooexplains why sometimes, you
know, things will be going great(mm-hmm) for a while.
And then after about a year,people change in staffing or
volunteering.
Right.
And then, and then like the lastpart about rage.
I mean, I get it.
You know, like, what am I sayingall the time?
(06:44):
Five minutes and a baseball bat?
Yeah.
Or someone needs a punch in thethroat.
And Facebook didn't like mesaying that, but, but I mean,
it, it happens, you know, Imean, you get so fed up with, I
don't want to like, you know,generalize, but I'll, I'm gonna
generalize right now.
(07:04):
So it's not targeted at anyonespecifically.
No.
But you get so fed up withpeople.
And you get so fed up withpeople and their damn excuses of
you know, Why?
Any excuse?
I mean, yeah, like, okay, whyare you surrendering your
animal?
Why, did you not get your animalspayed and neutered?
(07:25):
Why?
You know, like...
Well, there's like a long listand then by the time it adds up,
you're just like mad ateverything.
Yeah.
But you know, I kind of thoughtit's like an age thing, like,
you spend your youth kind of outthere, building relationships,
communicating with people, likeyou seem to have eternal
(07:46):
patience until about 30.
And then once you hit 30, you'rekind of like, oh, I'm almost 40
and I am gonna stop toleratingpeople that don't treat me well
or, you know, things like that.
So you start realizing like youhave limited time and you're
gonna choose wisely about howyou spend it.
(08:07):
Right.
You have friends instead ofacquaintances.
Right.
And then when you're 40, youknow, you really even double
down on that.
You're not gonna spend time onthat, which doesn't bring you
joy.
Yeah.
I don't need your negativity.
Right.
I guess.
Like, I feel like that'scompassion fatigue for life.
Like, because I mean, it, it isin a way.
(08:30):
But if you've spent your youth,you know, out there like
socializing and whatever, thenyou can cope later.
But I think honestly, this is aversion of why people are so
disconnected now.
They can't deal with people andit's on a very, very basic
(08:50):
level, not even like a complexor job related level.
It's just completely an aninability to deal with people.
Right.
I mean, everyone has compassionfatigue now.
Exactly.
Well, yeah, I mean, Compassionfor other people.
Compassion for animals.
Oh my God.
(09:10):
Like Cuddly, right?
They've promoted some of ouranimals or whatever, and
there's, I'm gonna totallybutcher the name.
A or a, I don't know.
It's like someplace over there.
Aberdeen.
No.
It's, it's Acan or somethinglike that.
Where, where is it?
(09:31):
What state?
I don't know it's like in, it'snot a state, it's like a
European...
Azerbaijan.
That one.
Okay, fine.
Azerbaijan.
Okay.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
Okay, fine.
But dude, like the crap thatthey do to dogs is like
horrible.
Yeah.
And I'm like, how could you,like if we, and we, like, you
(09:53):
know, us motley zoo, we're noteven on the front lines of this.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like we are secondary.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we're even secondary toYakima, right?
Yeah.
Because like, they're out thereand they're like, okay, we've
got the orchard dogs.
We've got the, um, cul-de-sac,not cul-de-sac.
What, what is it?
Cul Cul, eh, what is that word?
(10:14):
It's cul-de-sac.
I don't know why you wordculvert.
Culvert.
Uhhuh.
Um, ditches.
Right?
It's like a ditch.
Like all these puppies abandonedall these, I mean all these, you
know, like our Sandman litter,you know, like two of the
puppies were frozen.
Yeah.
And we got the babies that I hadto bottle feed and like, where
(10:34):
are their parents?
Where's the mom?
Where's the dad?
Like, nobody knows.
I mean, I got sent pictures of adead frozen cow and...
Oh wow.
There's nah, and then there'sthree dogs surviving on the
road.
And then, okay, so my firstquestion is like, okay, what the
hell with the cow, right?
(10:55):
Mm-hmm.
And I guess that's a thing too,that like cows just wander?
And then the poor dogs, right?
Like they, they were eating thecarcass cuz they had to survive.
Right.
But I mean like seriously, weare not even first responders,
so to speak.
No.
With that stuff, like we see itafter the fact and I couldn't
imagine if we had to see itevery day.
(11:19):
You know?
Yeah.
Or be the one to euthanize theanimals.
Oh...
Like in the shelters?
Yeah.
I remember, remember when wediscussed taking the
euthanization course?
Just because if we had asituation where we needed to
humanely euthanize an animalimmediately...
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(11:39):
And we were struggling to getvet care...
Mm-hmm.
That we were gonna take it.
Mm-hmm.
And Bryan was like, I don'tthink you should do that.
I don't even think you wannaopen that door.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if he's right.
I think we could do it likewe're kind of medically
oriented, but...
Well, to alleviate suffering,you know?
Yeah.
I mean, it's still hard.
(12:00):
Yeah.
Every time we do it.
I mean, you know how I am withdead...
I know.
Things.
So, yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, that would be the onlylike really front lines thing I
could see that(Mm-hmm) we'd do.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we still see the animalscome in in terrible condition.
We still see, we know, I mean,we know where they came from.
Yeah.
But yeah, we're not the onesbusting down the door and(right)
(12:23):
breaking up the hoardingsituation.
Mm-hmm.
Which, that would be hard.
I think.
I think like I would, I wouldget angry.
Yeah.
So I would be the rager.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I'd be hulking out.
I mean, look at the, I mean, youknow, like seriously, yeah.
I'd lose my, and no one's reallyseen me lose it.
(12:44):
No.
You know, I can't watch theAnimal Cops shows because I get
so mad and I get so upset, but Irealize it's because I can't
actually just get up...
Do anything.
Do something about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I can't watch them because Ican't do anything.
Yeah.
But I know like, I know I amdoing something about it.
(13:06):
Yeah.
Just not that particular story,but...
Yeah.
Yeah, I absolutely cannot watchthem because I just get so
outraged because I can't go putmy hands on that animal and fix
it.
Right.
Yeah.
And I can't, okay.
This is, I don't know why I'mlaughing.
I do, but, it's kind of like mewatching documentaries, nature
(13:26):
documentaries.
Right?
Oh, when they're chasing animalsdown and stuff.
Are, are they okay?
Meerkat Manor did it for me.
Oh.
Like, I'm sorry.
I see you freaking weighingthese damn animals all the time.
And then a baby wanders off andyou videotape it like dying in
(13:47):
the sun or whatever because Oh,that's nature, but it's not
nature because you intervene.
You're like, we can't intervene.
I was like, bitch, you are likeweighing them.
Mm-hmm.
Like you are in there and theyare used to you, so you've
already intervened with nature,so you might as well just pick
that baby up and put her backwith a colony.
Put it in your pocket.
(14:07):
Exactly.
You take it home! Right?
Oh, I would totally with ameerkat.
I know.
I would, I would have a wholemeerkat family living in my
yard.
Yeah.
I need, I need foxes.
So on this website it says thatcompassion fatigue and burnout
are kind of different.
Burnout develops over time.
(14:27):
I mean, it develops fromcompassion fatigue, I would say.
Yeah.
It says burnout includeemotional and physical
exhaustion, feelings ofnegativity and indifference in
the feeling like you're notgetting the job done.
And compassion fatigue has alittle bit more to do with
trauma.
So like a lot of people inanimal welfare have...
Think they go hand in hand.
Right?
Or they think, oh, I havecompassion fatigue when you
(14:50):
really don't.
You just have trauma.
Trauma.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
You just have burnout.
Oh, ah-huh.
Well, and a lot of times whenthey talk about compassion
fatigue in the animal world,it's over the hard cases that
you see.
It is actual trauma.
Mm-hmm.
Like PTSD from the animalsituations.
Right.
Whereas compassion fatigue, itcould be that, but I always say
(15:13):
that my compassion fatigue is indealing with people.
That's where I feel exhausted.
I'm not tired of dealing withanimals when I'm, I'm
face-to-face and,(right) I don'tthink I've ever had an animal
case that's traumatized me.
Mm.
Even as bad as they've beenbecause I'm still doing
something about it.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, but I mean, we can stillbe traumatized by some events,
(15:34):
but we get over it.
I mean, I mean, to, to continue,right.
But I mean, there is like, youknow, kind of like when you get
rear-ended and you just neverknow when, like with cars or
whatever, when they're gonnarear-end you again.
So you have that kind of worryin the back of your head for a
while.
Mm-hmm.
And so you're on edge, I guess,for lack of a better word, and
(15:58):
you're uneasy.
So, I mean, you remember it likeafter I lost, my precious Prius
and Jessie, and then two wasstill with us.
And no one- for some reason withthe parvo- no one, I mean, she's
fucking adorable.
Like why did no one foster to aadopt her, right?
Yeah.
And I posted her and every otherparvo puppy we've had, we've had
(16:21):
foster to adopts, you know, butfor her, we didn't.
And having to see her withoutanyone, and then knowing that
there was parvo in the house.
And then afterwards, once wewere past that parvo, I mean, it
took me a while to get thepuppies remember?
And we were, and I'm like, Ican't do it.
(16:42):
I can't do it.
Like we would get a request fora puppy.
Yeah.
And I'm like, Nope.
Can't do it.
Not ready yet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That is, that's, that is trauma.
Because part of it was like, ohmy God, what if I didn't get all
the parvo outta my house?
Right.
Even though I was bleachingevery, every weekend, you know?
Yeah.
This one also has some differentsymptoms of compassion fatigue
(17:02):
and kind of more generalizedphysical or emotional
exhaustion, or both.
Reduced feelings of sympathy orempathy.
Dreading taking care of someoneor the animals, and feeling
guilty about that.
Feeling irritable, angry oranxious, headaches, trouble
sleeping, isolating yourself,feeling disconnected, reduced
sense of accomplishment incaregiving, trouble making
(17:24):
decisions and problems inpersonal relationships.
So yeah, that one is a littlemore specific I think, about how
kind of, you know, it can bepervasive in many aspects of
your life.
Mm-hmm.
And then how to deal with it.
It says to be aware of changesin your level of compassion
fatigue.
Try rating it on a scale so youknow, perhaps every week you can
(17:47):
give yourself a score.
And then let's see the scale'sup to you.
One could be no symptoms, fivecould be a variety, and 10 would
be that your symptoms are severeand unrelenting, that your
health is at risk.
Yeah, I would definitely say youdo have to grade yourself from
week to week to see if you'rechanging.
Mm-hmm.
Making self-care a priority.
(18:07):
That definitely is one.
And there's a lots of thingspeople do to alleviate their
stress.
Mm-hmm.
And it is really important.
Meditation is a really good one.
I know a lot of people poo pooit or they don't do it.
Mm-hmm.
But you're actually changingyour brain and how you deal with
stress.
Mm-hmm.
(18:27):
When you meditate.
Yeah.
And your brain is growing.
So it's actually, it's like aworkout for your brain and it
helps you alleviate stress.
So that's a good one.
And I do it a little bit.
I don't do it consistentlyenough.
Mm-hmm.
I really should.
I even have an app, so...
I was gonna say there's appsthat help you meditate.
Yeah.
And so, you know, Bryan and Idid it consistently for like
(18:50):
four or five months.
And then when the winter hit,then, I don't know, we just got
lazy I guess.
But one of the self-care thingsthat I do is I get a massage,
and right now it's every week.
I cannot live without it.
I can't like it, it's soimportant to me because I feel
so much better when I get thatand, you know, it's not like,
(19:11):
okay, now I want to go to sleep.
I actually feel refreshed andready to do things because I
don't feel so tight and workedup.
Right.
And I like to go to movies.
Yes.
So I don't, I don't like peopletouching me, so a massage would
like really bother me.
(19:31):
Mm-hmm.
So I like to go see movies and,and that's my escape.
Yeah.
Well, and exercising, eating ahealthy diet, sleep, like having
a good sleep routine.
Take time...
Which I have is horrible.
Oh God.
Yeah.
I actually have a pretty goodsleep routine, but it's whether
or not, I'm gonna wake up in themiddle of the night and not be
able to get back to sleep.
(19:53):
Taking time for yourself, evenif it's only 10 minutes.
I don't know, maybe that'sreading the paper in the morning
with your coffee, justuninterrupted.
I would say don't watch thenews.
Uh, yeah.
The way I wind down at the endof the night is I'll get in bed
and the stupid cat will like getin my way while I'm trying to
play a game on my phone.
(20:15):
That would wake me up trying toplay a game.
That would wake you up?
Oh no.
My brain.
Yeah.
Or you know, and then I'll playa little game on the computer.
I'm not, I keep calling acomputer.
Well, I mean it, like, ourphones are basically computers
now, but, yeah, I'm, I'm in bedand I try to play a little game
and then I read a few pages andthen I'm pretty done.
(20:38):
Yeah.
I read, that's my,(yeah) mything.
And then spending time withfriends.
And obviously that's reallyimportant.
They actually said thatrelationships slow down your
brain shrinking.
So being social is key to notgetting Alzheimer's.
Oh, damn.
(20:59):
Yeah.
So this is why...
What about us introverts that'slike, but suffered during covid
and was like, Woohoo.
But you do still thrive on somerelationships.
There are some relationshipsthat if you didn't have them,
your brain would be shrinkingand you'd be getting dumber.
No, it's...
Dumb And dumber.
(21:19):
Join support groups.
Mm-hmm.
Write in a journal.
Writing in a journal is probablya good idea for most people
because I think it's hard for alot of people to actually, you
know, reflect and be self-aware.
And if journaling can help youdo that, and really sometimes
just writing things down(mm-hmm)helps.
I know for me, I, if I'm upset,I'll write a letter.
(21:40):
Mm-hmm.
I don't even know if I'm gonnasend it and I will spend hours
writing a letter, but...
Cuz you're getting it all out.
I have to get it out.
And it doesn't matter if theperson ever hears it or not.
I just, I need to deal with itthat way.
So, use positive ways to copewith stress.
It's tempting to plop down infront of the tv, with a bag of
(22:00):
chips and some wine.
Instead take a walk, meditate,exercise for four minutes,
practice deep breathing, call,visit, or text with a friend,
watch funny clips on YouTube.
Take a hot bath or shower.
You know, I have to say that Ido having bad habits sometimes
of eating my feelings.
Mm.
You know, I mean, I'm not, Idon't like ice cream, so I'm not
(22:21):
one of those like, oh, let megrab a pint of ice cream.
But yeah, I do like carbs, youknow, so.
So I do too.
And, for a while I was seriouslyaddicted to Crumbl Cookie.
My god.
Crumbl Cookie.
So good.
Couldn't, I couldn't go a daywithout having it or I was
upset.
I mean, I cut the cookies inquarters and, you know, I don't
(22:41):
eat like multiple cookies in theday.
Right?
But, but oh my God, those, Imean, Crumbl Cookie, if you're
gonna be addicted to anything,Crumbl cookies are amazing.
Well, amazing.
When Kristin came to me, she'slike, okay, so how many times a
week do you do it?
That's what she said.
And I was like, it sounds likewe're talking about drugs.
(23:02):
And she's like, well, it is,right.
It is.
It's kind of a drug.
But so for about two months Ihad them almost every day.
Wow.
And then, you know, I was like,I am just, I can't do that.
I'm not, yeah.
This is not healthy.
And I am getting fat because I'mnot exercising.
I don't even walk like I used tobecause you know, I used to walk
(23:23):
10,000 steps a day at thefacility, but...
Oh, well you could do that atWCK for sure.
Right.
But I'm not here every day.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
But yeah, and most of what I dois on the computer, so there's a
lot of sitting.
So I started to like gain weightand one of my pairs of pants,
like, seemed tight, and I waslike, what?
Like, I've never had thathappen.
I know like someone probablywants to kill me for that, but
(23:45):
I've never had that happen.
And so it was very upsetting.
But anyway, I haven't had any,Crumbl Cookie for over a month.
And I actually haven't beencraving it(really?) Which is...
Well, we need a birthday soon,and then we'll have Crumbl
Cookie and it'll, and you'llfall off the wagon.
I will fall off the wagon.
Spending time on hobbies, sothat's something that I think is
(24:07):
hard and I lose, that's so hard.
I lose, I tend to lose interestwhen I have burnout or when
things get bad, I tend to loseinterest in my hobbies and
things that I normally like todo.
So it kind of sucks.
It sucks for Bryan cuz he islike, wanna go do this, wanna go
do that?
And I'm like, no, I'm too tired.
Mm-hmm.
(24:28):
And so, you know, that's whensometimes I really have to
muster my energy and, and go.
Yeah.
And I'll have fun when I go.
Mm-hmm.
But the idea of even gettingthere just seems tiring.
Yeah.
Uh, definitely speaking with acounselor or therapist that is,
something that probably, maybe,you know, first responders,
(24:52):
animal care, animal welfarepeople, caregivers of, you know,
adult parents...
that's probably a good thing todo.
Mm-hmm.
For most people.
I mean, maybe even just once amonth.
But then it won't build up.
Mm-hmm.
And it won't, you know, overflowand get worse.
Right.
Because you can't get away fromcaregiving for an adult person.
(25:13):
No.
So that one has gotta be reallyhard.
I think that has its own, notown moniker.
What's the the word?
It's got its own.
It's got its own word.
It's not compassion.
It's caregivers fatigue, isn'tit?
Yeah.
But it is compassion fatigue.
Yeah.
But you know, it can bespecified.
I think that's where the guiltcomes in, where you get annoyed
(25:33):
and you feel guilty that you areannoyed that you have to do
this.
Right.
Because it's a job that doesn'tgo away.
Right.
Whereas like animal welfare, youcould quit your job, you could
change your career.
You could step away.
Yeah.
You could take a vacation, butnot from a person.
Right.
Yeah.
Unless you have backup.
And I think that's a thing isthat everyone should have
backup, right?
Yes.
I mean, I don't wanna say themore successful rescues, but the
(25:55):
ones that we have seen that havelasted longer.
Mm-hmm.
Are duos, you know, like savinggreat animals is Jacintha and
Perrin.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And how you can bounce thingsoff each other.
Yeah.
And one can take the lead andthe other, you know?
Right.
So that's all we have time forfor this episode, and I guess
(26:18):
this is gonna be our first, partthree.
It's time for Trilogy.
Everyone loves trilogies.
And on a nice, depressingsubject.
But yeah, we will be back nextweek to round out our...
Will we though.
Well, I don't know.
Our series on compassion...
(26:38):
Jesus.
Compassion fatigue.
You can't even say it.
I can't even say it.
That's it.
I can't even say it.
I'm Jme.
I'm Pate.
And this is our podcast RescueShit..
I did it again.
Holy shit.
I cannot...
Rock on.
Rescue on.
You didn't squeak.
(26:59):
Because we didn't say shit.
Oh, I am hopeless.
I'm Patty.
No, I'm not Patty.
Why do I do that?
I'm Jme.
You wish she was Pate?
I know.
I'm Jme.
I'm Pate.
And this is Motley Zoo AnimalRescue and our podcast Rescue
Shit.
We lost our squeaker.
Where?
Seriously, who took thesqueaker?
(01:15):
So compassion fatigue, we wantto kind of give you an idea of
what it is.
And it's basically the generalfeeling that you have no more
empathy to give.
It's usually something thathealthcare workers, first
responders, you know, those kindof people, social workers that
are helping people chronicallyas a job.
(01:37):
Right.
And it also very much affectsanimal welfare people and vets.
Especially vets.
Yeah, definitely.
And there are some warning signsand sometimes they come on
subtly, sometimes they just areoverwhelming.
But ultimately the result isburnout.
(01:59):
Mm-hmm.
In the end.
They just get exhausted.
Yeah.
The signs of compassion fatigueare feelings of helplessness and
powerlessness in the face ofsuffering, reduce feelings of
empathy and sensitivity.
Feeling overwhelmed andexhausted by work demands,
feeling detached, numb andemotionally disconnected.
Loss of interest in activitiesyou use to enjoy.
(02:23):
So I would say we have a few ofthose.
Yeah, I mean, totally.
I would say like my compassionfatigue at the moment would be
the feeling overwhelmed andexhausted.
Because I mean, if anyone'slooked at our post lately, it's,
you know, urgent, I needfosters.
(02:45):
I need fosters, I need fosters.
We cannot keep up.
And I don't even know how Yakimadoes it, honestly, like Bev and
Shelly, like, kudos to youbecause damn.
You know, because I see all therequests that they have.
It's puppies upon puppies uponpuppies, and I mean, dogs
getting hit, dogs gettingabandoned, skinny dogs.
(03:08):
And I mean, it's never bloodyending.
I mean, come on.
Well, and even just before weturned on the recording, you
were looking at the email andyou're like, surrender,
surrender, surrender, surrender.
Yeah.
And I've been trying to dealwith them a couple at a time.
Every day.
But it's just every time I seethat in the inbox, my heart
(03:29):
drops and I just think I have topsych myself up for this.
Yeah.
So it is bad.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, yeah, I think we justhave chronic compassion fatigue,
but it's not stopping us(right)from moving forward.
Whereas for some people, itreally does stop them from
moving forward or they have toquit their jobs.
(03:49):
Mm-hmm.
Because they cannot handle anymore responsibility like of that
being in front of people,suffering or animals suffering.
Mm-hmm.
So that is the definition ofcompassion fatigue and we'll
just talk a little bit aboutsome of our experiences and our
concerns and how to helpyourself if you need that, or
(04:10):
maybe you know someone who does.
Besides the symptoms ofcompassion fatigue, there are
actually four stages.
You know, like the stages ofgrief when someone dies, there's
the zealot phase, the withdrawalphase, the irritability phase.
Oh, that's me.
And the zombie phase.
That's it.
(04:31):
I was gonna say, I'm one andthree.
So the zealot phase, and this ison a site, you know, kind of
specified for veterinarians, butthey feel committed, available,
ready to make a difference.
Willingly work long hours,enthusiasm is unending.
That's definitely how mostpeople start whether they're,
you know, a staff person or avolunteer.
(04:52):
Then withdrawal phase.
The second stage is whenenthusiasm turns sour and the
bubbles burst.
Complaints about work begin tosurface.
The individual's tired all thetime and avoids talking about
work.
He or she begins neglectingfamily, coworkers, clients, or
him or herself.
I would say it doesn't have togo to that point, but the
(05:13):
complaining about work that andthe bubble bursting, that's
definitely, part of it for sure.
Irritability phase, this personstarts avoiding, it says patient
or client contact, but thatwould just be human contact
probably.
The use of humor is strained.
Lapses of concentration beginoccurring.
People distance themselvesfurther from family and friends.
(05:36):
Then there's...
That, I feel it's kind of weirdthat compassion fatigue, they
would distance themselves awayfrom their family and friends.
Like...
Maybe cuz people can't...
That, that almost seems like afrigging depression kind of
thing rather than compassionfatigue per se.
That's just my thoughts.
Well it is a kind of depressionreally.
(05:58):
I mean it that hopelessness.
So the zombie phase.
All hopelessness turns to rage.
The person begins to loathe anyand all people, including
coworkers.
Others become incompetent.
And there's a disdain forpatients.
And clients.
And patience is minimal.
Patience- the person's patience.
Right.
Right.
So I can see some people I knowin those different phases.
(06:22):
And maybe that kind of tooexplains why sometimes, you
know, things will be going great(mm-hmm) for a while.
And then after about a year,people change in staffing or
volunteering.
Right.
And then, and then like the lastpart about rage.
I mean, I get it.
You know, like, what am I sayingall the time?
(06:44):
Five minutes and a baseball bat?
Yeah.
Or someone needs a punch in thethroat.
And Facebook didn't like mesaying that, but, but I mean,
it, it happens, you know, Imean, you get so fed up with, I
don't want to like, you know,generalize, but I'll, I'm gonna
generalize right now.
(07:04):
So it's not targeted at anyonespecifically.
No.
But you get so fed up withpeople.
And you get so fed up withpeople and their damn excuses of
you know, Why?
Any excuse?
I mean, yeah, like, okay, whyare you surrendering your
animal?
Why, did you not get your animalspayed and neutered?
(07:25):
Why?
You know, like...
Well, there's like a long listand then by the time it adds up,
you're just like mad ateverything.
Yeah.
But you know, I kind of thoughtit's like an age thing, like,
you spend your youth kind of outthere, building relationships,
communicating with people, likeyou seem to have eternal
(07:46):
patience until about 30.
And then once you hit 30, you'rekind of like, oh, I'm almost 40
and I am gonna stop toleratingpeople that don't treat me well
or, you know, things like that.
So you start realizing like youhave limited time and you're
gonna choose wisely about howyou spend it.
(08:07):
Right.
You have friends instead ofacquaintances.
Right.
And then when you're 40, youknow, you really even double
down on that.
You're not gonna spend time onthat, which doesn't bring you
joy.
Yeah.
I don't need your negativity.
Right.
I guess.
Like, I feel like that'scompassion fatigue for life.
Like, because I mean, it, it isin a way.
(08:30):
But if you've spent your youth,you know, out there like
socializing and whatever, thenyou can cope later.
But I think honestly, this is aversion of why people are so
disconnected now.
They can't deal with people andit's on a very, very basic
(08:50):
level, not even like a complexor job related level.
It's just completely an aninability to deal with people.
Right.
I mean, everyone has compassionfatigue now.
Exactly.
Well, yeah, I mean, Compassionfor other people.
Compassion for animals.
Oh my God.
(09:10):
Like Cuddly, right?
They've promoted some of ouranimals or whatever, and
there's, I'm gonna totallybutcher the name.
A or a, I don't know.
It's like someplace over there.
Aberdeen.
No.
It's, it's Acan or somethinglike that.
Where, where is it?
(09:31):
What state?
I don't know it's like in, it'snot a state, it's like a
European...
Azerbaijan.
That one.
Okay, fine.
Azerbaijan.
Okay.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
Okay, fine.
But dude, like the crap thatthey do to dogs is like
horrible.
Yeah.
And I'm like, how could you,like if we, and we, like, you
(09:53):
know, us motley zoo, we're noteven on the front lines of this.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like we are secondary.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we're even secondary toYakima, right?
Yeah.
Because like, they're out thereand they're like, okay, we've
got the orchard dogs.
We've got the, um, cul-de-sac,not cul-de-sac.
What, what is it?
Cul Cul, eh, what is that word?
(10:14):
It's cul-de-sac.
I don't know why you wordculvert.
Culvert.
Uhhuh.
Um, ditches.
Right?
It's like a ditch.
Like all these puppies abandonedall these, I mean all these, you
know, like our Sandman litter,you know, like two of the
puppies were frozen.
Yeah.
And we got the babies that I hadto bottle feed and like, where
(10:34):
are their parents?
Where's the mom?
Where's the dad?
Like, nobody knows.
I mean, I got sent pictures of adead frozen cow and...
Oh wow.
There's nah, and then there'sthree dogs surviving on the
road.
And then, okay, so my firstquestion is like, okay, what the
hell with the cow, right?
(10:55):
Mm-hmm.
And I guess that's a thing too,that like cows just wander?
And then the poor dogs, right?
Like they, they were eating thecarcass cuz they had to survive.
Right.
But I mean like seriously, weare not even first responders,
so to speak.
No.
With that stuff, like we see itafter the fact and I couldn't
imagine if we had to see itevery day.
(11:19):
You know?
Yeah.
Or be the one to euthanize theanimals.
Oh...
Like in the shelters?
Yeah.
I remember, remember when wediscussed taking the
euthanization course?
Just because if we had asituation where we needed to
humanely euthanize an animalimmediately...
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(11:39):
And we were struggling to getvet care...
Mm-hmm.
That we were gonna take it.
Mm-hmm.
And Bryan was like, I don'tthink you should do that.
I don't even think you wannaopen that door.
Mm-hmm.
I don't know if he's right.
I think we could do it likewe're kind of medically
oriented, but...
Well, to alleviate suffering,you know?
Yeah.
I mean, it's still hard.
(12:00):
Yeah.
Every time we do it.
I mean, you know how I am withdead...
I know.
Things.
So, yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, that would be the onlylike really front lines thing I
could see that(Mm-hmm) we'd do.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, we still see the animalscome in in terrible condition.
We still see, we know, I mean,we know where they came from.
Yeah.
But yeah, we're not the onesbusting down the door and(right)
(12:23):
breaking up the hoardingsituation.
Mm-hmm.
Which, that would be hard.
I think.
I think like I would, I wouldget angry.
Yeah.
So I would be the rager.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I'd be hulking out.
I mean, look at the, I mean, youknow, like seriously, yeah.
I'd lose my, and no one's reallyseen me lose it.
(12:44):
No.
You know, I can't watch theAnimal Cops shows because I get
so mad and I get so upset, but Irealize it's because I can't
actually just get up...
Do anything.
Do something about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, I can't watch them because Ican't do anything.
Yeah.
But I know like, I know I amdoing something about it.
(13:06):
Yeah.
Just not that particular story,but...
Yeah.
Yeah, I absolutely cannot watchthem because I just get so
outraged because I can't go putmy hands on that animal and fix
it.
Right.
Yeah.
And I can't, okay.
This is, I don't know why I'mlaughing.
I do, but, it's kind of like mewatching documentaries, nature
(13:26):
documentaries.
Right?
Oh, when they're chasing animalsdown and stuff.
Are, are they okay?
Meerkat Manor did it for me.
Oh.
Like, I'm sorry.
I see you freaking weighingthese damn animals all the time.
And then a baby wanders off andyou videotape it like dying in
(13:47):
the sun or whatever because Oh,that's nature, but it's not
nature because you intervene.
You're like, we can't intervene.
I was like, bitch, you are likeweighing them.
Mm-hmm.
Like you are in there and theyare used to you, so you've
already intervened with nature,so you might as well just pick
that baby up and put her backwith a colony.
Put it in your pocket.
(14:07):
Exactly.
You take it home! Right?
Oh, I would totally with ameerkat.
I know.
I would, I would have a wholemeerkat family living in my
yard.
Yeah.
I need, I need foxes.
So on this website it says thatcompassion fatigue and burnout
are kind of different.
Burnout develops over time.
(14:27):
I mean, it develops fromcompassion fatigue, I would say.
Yeah.
It says burnout includeemotional and physical
exhaustion, feelings ofnegativity and indifference in
the feeling like you're notgetting the job done.
And compassion fatigue has alittle bit more to do with
trauma.
So like a lot of people inanimal welfare have...
Think they go hand in hand.
Right?
Or they think, oh, I havecompassion fatigue when you
(14:50):
really don't.
You just have trauma.
Trauma.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
You just have burnout.
Oh, ah-huh.
Well, and a lot of times whenthey talk about compassion
fatigue in the animal world,it's over the hard cases that
you see.
It is actual trauma.
Mm-hmm.
Like PTSD from the animalsituations.
Right.
Whereas compassion fatigue, itcould be that, but I always say
(15:13):
that my compassion fatigue is indealing with people.
That's where I feel exhausted.
I'm not tired of dealing withanimals when I'm, I'm
face-to-face and,(right) I don'tthink I've ever had an animal
case that's traumatized me.
Mm.
Even as bad as they've beenbecause I'm still doing
something about it.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, but I mean, we can stillbe traumatized by some events,
(15:34):
but we get over it.
I mean, I mean, to, to continue,right.
But I mean, there is like, youknow, kind of like when you get
rear-ended and you just neverknow when, like with cars or
whatever, when they're gonnarear-end you again.
So you have that kind of worryin the back of your head for a
while.
Mm-hmm.
And so you're on edge, I guess,for lack of a better word, and
(15:58):
you're uneasy.
So, I mean, you remember it likeafter I lost, my precious Prius
and Jessie, and then two wasstill with us.
And no one- for some reason withthe parvo- no one, I mean, she's
fucking adorable.
Like why did no one foster to aadopt her, right?
Yeah.
And I posted her and every otherparvo puppy we've had, we've had
(16:21):
foster to adopts, you know, butfor her, we didn't.
And having to see her withoutanyone, and then knowing that
there was parvo in the house.
And then afterwards, once wewere past that parvo, I mean, it
took me a while to get thepuppies remember?
And we were, and I'm like, Ican't do it.
(16:42):
I can't do it.
Like we would get a request fora puppy.
Yeah.
And I'm like, Nope.
Can't do it.
Not ready yet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That is, that's, that is trauma.
Because part of it was like, ohmy God, what if I didn't get all
the parvo outta my house?
Right.
Even though I was bleachingevery, every weekend, you know?
Yeah.
This one also has some differentsymptoms of compassion fatigue
(17:02):
and kind of more generalizedphysical or emotional
exhaustion, or both.
Reduced feelings of sympathy orempathy.
Dreading taking care of someoneor the animals, and feeling
guilty about that.
Feeling irritable, angry oranxious, headaches, trouble
sleeping, isolating yourself,feeling disconnected, reduced
sense of accomplishment incaregiving, trouble making
(17:24):
decisions and problems inpersonal relationships.
So yeah, that one is a littlemore specific I think, about how
kind of, you know, it can bepervasive in many aspects of
your life.
Mm-hmm.
And then how to deal with it.
It says to be aware of changesin your level of compassion
fatigue.
Try rating it on a scale so youknow, perhaps every week you can
(17:47):
give yourself a score.
And then let's see the scale'sup to you.
One could be no symptoms, fivecould be a variety, and 10 would
be that your symptoms are severeand unrelenting, that your
health is at risk.
Yeah, I would definitely say youdo have to grade yourself from
week to week to see if you'rechanging.
Mm-hmm.
Making self-care a priority.
(18:07):
That definitely is one.
And there's a lots of thingspeople do to alleviate their
stress.
Mm-hmm.
And it is really important.
Meditation is a really good one.
I know a lot of people poo pooit or they don't do it.
Mm-hmm.
But you're actually changingyour brain and how you deal with
stress.
Mm-hmm.
(18:27):
When you meditate.
Yeah.
And your brain is growing.
So it's actually, it's like aworkout for your brain and it
helps you alleviate stress.
So that's a good one.
And I do it a little bit.
I don't do it consistentlyenough.
Mm-hmm.
I really should.
I even have an app, so...
I was gonna say there's appsthat help you meditate.
Yeah.
And so, you know, Bryan and Idid it consistently for like
(18:50):
four or five months.
And then when the winter hit,then, I don't know, we just got
lazy I guess.
But one of the self-care thingsthat I do is I get a massage,
and right now it's every week.
I cannot live without it.
I can't like it, it's soimportant to me because I feel
so much better when I get thatand, you know, it's not like,
(19:11):
okay, now I want to go to sleep.
I actually feel refreshed andready to do things because I
don't feel so tight and workedup.
Right.
And I like to go to movies.
Yes.
So I don't, I don't like peopletouching me, so a massage would
like really bother me.
(19:31):
Mm-hmm.
So I like to go see movies and,and that's my escape.
Yeah.
Well, and exercising, eating ahealthy diet, sleep, like having
a good sleep routine.
Take time...
Which I have is horrible.
Oh God.
Yeah.
I actually have a pretty goodsleep routine, but it's whether
or not, I'm gonna wake up in themiddle of the night and not be
able to get back to sleep.
(19:53):
Taking time for yourself, evenif it's only 10 minutes.
I don't know, maybe that'sreading the paper in the morning
with your coffee, justuninterrupted.
I would say don't watch thenews.
Uh, yeah.
The way I wind down at the endof the night is I'll get in bed
and the stupid cat will like getin my way while I'm trying to
play a game on my phone.
(20:15):
That would wake me up trying toplay a game.
That would wake you up?
Oh no.
My brain.
Yeah.
Or you know, and then I'll playa little game on the computer.
I'm not, I keep calling acomputer.
Well, I mean it, like, ourphones are basically computers
now, but, yeah, I'm, I'm in bedand I try to play a little game
and then I read a few pages andthen I'm pretty done.
(20:38):
Yeah.
I read, that's my,(yeah) mything.
And then spending time withfriends.
And obviously that's reallyimportant.
They actually said thatrelationships slow down your
brain shrinking.
So being social is key to notgetting Alzheimer's.
Oh, damn.
(20:59):
Yeah.
So this is why...
What about us introverts that'slike, but suffered during covid
and was like, Woohoo.
But you do still thrive on somerelationships.
There are some relationshipsthat if you didn't have them,
your brain would be shrinkingand you'd be getting dumber.
No, it's...
Dumb And dumber.
(21:19):
Join support groups.
Mm-hmm.
Write in a journal.
Writing in a journal is probablya good idea for most people
because I think it's hard for alot of people to actually, you
know, reflect and be self-aware.
And if journaling can help youdo that, and really sometimes
just writing things down(mm-hmm)helps.
I know for me, I, if I'm upset,I'll write a letter.
(21:40):
Mm-hmm.
I don't even know if I'm gonnasend it and I will spend hours
writing a letter, but...
Cuz you're getting it all out.
I have to get it out.
And it doesn't matter if theperson ever hears it or not.
I just, I need to deal with itthat way.
So, use positive ways to copewith stress.
It's tempting to plop down infront of the tv, with a bag of
(22:00):
chips and some wine.
Instead take a walk, meditate,exercise for four minutes,
practice deep breathing, call,visit, or text with a friend,
watch funny clips on YouTube.
Take a hot bath or shower.
You know, I have to say that Ido having bad habits sometimes
of eating my feelings.
Mm.
You know, I mean, I'm not, Idon't like ice cream, so I'm not
(22:21):
one of those like, oh, let megrab a pint of ice cream.
But yeah, I do like carbs, youknow, so.
So I do too.
And, for a while I was seriouslyaddicted to Crumbl Cookie.
My god.
Crumbl Cookie.
So good.
Couldn't, I couldn't go a daywithout having it or I was
upset.
I mean, I cut the cookies inquarters and, you know, I don't
(22:41):
eat like multiple cookies in theday.
Right?
But, but oh my God, those, Imean, Crumbl Cookie, if you're
gonna be addicted to anything,Crumbl cookies are amazing.
Well, amazing.
When Kristin came to me, she'slike, okay, so how many times a
week do you do it?
That's what she said.
And I was like, it sounds likewe're talking about drugs.
(23:02):
And she's like, well, it is,right.
It is.
It's kind of a drug.
But so for about two months Ihad them almost every day.
Wow.
And then, you know, I was like,I am just, I can't do that.
I'm not, yeah.
This is not healthy.
And I am getting fat because I'mnot exercising.
I don't even walk like I used tobecause you know, I used to walk
(23:23):
10,000 steps a day at thefacility, but...
Oh, well you could do that atWCK for sure.
Right.
But I'm not here every day.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
But yeah, and most of what I dois on the computer, so there's a
lot of sitting.
So I started to like gain weightand one of my pairs of pants,
like, seemed tight, and I waslike, what?
Like, I've never had thathappen.
I know like someone probablywants to kill me for that, but
(23:45):
I've never had that happen.
And so it was very upsetting.
But anyway, I haven't had any,Crumbl Cookie for over a month.
And I actually haven't beencraving it(really?) Which is...
Well, we need a birthday soon,and then we'll have Crumbl
Cookie and it'll, and you'llfall off the wagon.
I will fall off the wagon.
Spending time on hobbies, sothat's something that I think is
(24:07):
hard and I lose, that's so hard.
I lose, I tend to lose interestwhen I have burnout or when
things get bad, I tend to loseinterest in my hobbies and
things that I normally like todo.
So it kind of sucks.
It sucks for Bryan cuz he islike, wanna go do this, wanna go
do that?
And I'm like, no, I'm too tired.
Mm-hmm.
(24:28):
And so, you know, that's whensometimes I really have to
muster my energy and, and go.
Yeah.
And I'll have fun when I go.
Mm-hmm.
But the idea of even gettingthere just seems tiring.
Yeah.
Uh, definitely speaking with acounselor or therapist that is,
something that probably, maybe,you know, first responders,
(24:52):
animal care, animal welfarepeople, caregivers of, you know,
adult parents...
that's probably a good thing todo.
Mm-hmm.
For most people.
I mean, maybe even just once amonth.
But then it won't build up.
Mm-hmm.
And it won't, you know, overflowand get worse.
Right.
Because you can't get away fromcaregiving for an adult person.
(25:13):
No.
So that one has gotta be reallyhard.
I think that has its own, notown moniker.
What's the the word?
It's got its own.
It's got its own word.
It's not compassion.
It's caregivers fatigue, isn'tit?
Yeah.
But it is compassion fatigue.
Yeah.
But you know, it can bespecified.
I think that's where the guiltcomes in, where you get annoyed
(25:33):
and you feel guilty that you areannoyed that you have to do
this.
Right.
Because it's a job that doesn'tgo away.
Right.
Whereas like animal welfare, youcould quit your job, you could
change your career.
You could step away.
Yeah.
You could take a vacation, butnot from a person.
Right.
Yeah.
Unless you have backup.
And I think that's a thing isthat everyone should have
backup, right?
Yes.
I mean, I don't wanna say themore successful rescues, but the
(25:55):
ones that we have seen that havelasted longer.
Mm-hmm.
Are duos, you know, like savinggreat animals is Jacintha and
Perrin.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And how you can bounce thingsoff each other.
Yeah.
And one can take the lead andthe other, you know?
Right.
So that's all we have time forfor this episode, and I guess
(26:18):
this is gonna be our first, partthree.
It's time for Trilogy.
Everyone loves trilogies.
And on a nice, depressingsubject.
But yeah, we will be back nextweek to round out our...
Will we though.
Well, I don't know.
Our series on compassion...
(26:38):
Jesus.
Compassion fatigue.
You can't even say it.
I can't even say it.
That's it.
I can't even say it.
I'm Jme.
I'm Pate.
And this is our podcast RescueShit..
I did it again.
Holy shit.
I cannot...
Rock on.
Rescue on.
You didn't squeak.
(26:59):
Because we didn't say shit.
Oh, I am hopeless.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.