June 22, 2023 • 40 mins
This week we continue our discussion about compassion fatigue and some of the ways it affects us and those we work with. Learn about how we cope and the losses we have seen- and how we continue to move forward, despite the challenges.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, this is Pate.
And I'm Jme.
And we are Motley Zoo AnimalRescue, and this is our podcast
Rescue Shit.
Whoops.
So this week we're going tocontinue our discussion about
compassion fatigue.
Yeah.
A serious, serious subject.
People in different industriescan get it, but it's especially
(00:21):
common with people in the animalwelfare industry.
And it's basically just acomplete overload of emotion and
it turns into depression.
It can cause people to taketheir lives.
Right.
So compassion fatigue is reallyimportant.
And probably one of the mostimportant things is to recognize
(00:43):
that that's what it is.
Right.
And to seek help and not justbottle it up.
It's not just rescue who hascompassion fatigue.
I mean, it's the animalindustry.
Our vets, our vets suffer fromdepression.
I don't know if it's the highestrate of suicide, but...
It's up there.
Yeah.
And people are always like, why?
(01:04):
And honestly, I think it'sbecause a lot of time they're
dealing with people who won'tactually spend the money and the
time to help their dogs whenthey really need it.
Right.
And they don't want to euthanizedogs for things that could be
fixed, but they can't do it all.
They can't fix it all.
And we had a situation likethat.
(01:26):
Do you remember, Pumbaa?
Yeah.
It got to the point they werehaving a heated argument and it
got to the point where the vetwas going to call animal control
or the police.
I think they should do that moreoften than they do actually.
Probably.
It's hard.
It's hard to be that person,but...
Oh, I have no problem being...
I know, but the dog had a wound.
(01:49):
Oh my God.
That was gangrenous and his legwas rotting.
Well, they didn't even want togo to the vet in the first
place.
Right.
The daughter, the adult daughterhad to sneak the dog to the vet.
The second time.
Yes.
So this dog has a rotting leg.
It's in terrible pain.
Mm.
And the mom was screaming thatno one should touch her dog
(02:12):
and...
She was in serious denial.
Yeah.
And the vet would not give herthe dog back.
No.
And that was the second vet.
The first vet saw the condition,wrapped it and gave it back to
the woman.
Oh.
And yeah, she just did nothingabout it.
Left this old gross bandage onthis poor dog's leg...
Uhhuh.
So they had to sedate to take itoff.
(02:35):
Oh, wow.
I didn't know that part.
Yeah.
This is one of those, I'm justpulling in the driveway after a
long day at work.
Mm-hmm.
And Pate's like, Hey, we gotthis case at the vet.
And I'm like, all right, I'm onmy way.
I mean, that's the kind ofstuff, we get off the couch for,
we get up and go.
And it was your jam because itwas an older dog.
Yes.
A smaller, older dog.
(02:56):
Yes.
When I met him, I was juststunned.
One, he had tusks.
Hmm.
His bottom canine teeth theywere like tusks.
Mm-hmm.
I have never seen a dog likethat.
Mm-hmm.
And the other problem was thathe had such bad dental disease.
Mm.
So it was kind of a coin toss asto whether you deal with the
(03:19):
mouth or the leg first.
Right.
Because we know that severedental disease, because of the
bacteria in your mouth, it goesin your bloodstream.
So that's the reason why it wasa toss up.
It's because sometimes someconditions can be taken care of
when you clean and take care ofthe teeth.
Yes.
(03:39):
And you know, if he couldn't eatvery well, then it would be
harder to recover from surgeryan amputation if he couldn't eat
right.
And sadly that's what happened.
I trust that the vet did theright thing, but they amputated
his leg and it was really bad.
Yeah.
Right.
Because it was like, rock in ahard place.
(04:00):
Yeah.
And he wasn't healing.
Mm-hmm.
Like he wasn't recovering.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, most of the timeamputations are not that bad.
Right.
This dog was in terrible pain.
His, his...
Horrible! His mouth turned gray.
He was crashing(mm-hmm) andbleeding.
And so I brought him to the vetand...
The ER vet.
Yes.
(04:20):
And he actually lost a toothwhile they were trying to treat
him(Mm) because his teeth wereso bad.
Yeah.
And you know, they were like,he's not eating and drinking and
it's cuz he was in so much pain.
And so, I had to make thecall...
I don't know how long this dogsuffered before we got him.
Right.
But I knew at this stage itwould be six to eight weeks of
(04:45):
suffering if he wasn'trecovering properly.
Well, like could he even...
Yes.
Last six to eight weeks To heal.
Yeah.
To heal and then be in this typeof pain and discomfort.
Like,(no) was it fair to him?
And those are the questionsthat, you know, those are the
hard questions we have to askourselves sometimes.
I only had him for a couple daysand I was devastated to have to
(05:07):
make that choice.
Mm-hmm.
But I did not want him to suffer(no) any longer, especially
because I knew he'd beensuffering for a long time before
that.
Right.
It's just, it's a hard decision.
And then this, this is whatculminates in a type of
compassion fatigue is we seethese cases and we wanna save'em
all.
Right?
(05:27):
And we can't.
And when we are forced to make adecision like this, that was
brought on by pure neglect, youknow, like how, how can you be
around an animal in so muchpain.
Mm-hmm.
And know that, how do you notknow that you're, you're, you're
(05:52):
causing this?
Like seriously, you went to thefucking vet.
You went to the vet and you gotthe leg wrapped, you know, there
was a problem.
You know, there was an issue.
And you still did nothing andlet this puppy suffer.
It wasn't a puppy.
It was an older dog...
But he couldn't even walk on it.
I mean like, come on.
Yeah.
That's a pretty obvious signthat he's in pain.
(06:15):
Right.
This is the stuff we see andthis is the stuff that can build
up and be like, why do webother?
Yeah.
You know, it, it like takes apiece of your heart.
Yeah.
Every time.
And honestly, this is the stuffwe shield our volunteers and
fosters from for the most part.
Yeah.
They do not know the things thatwe see and most of the time when
(06:38):
we tell their stories, it's amuch, you know, toned down
version of the story because wecannot really express how bad it
was.
Right.
Because we're focused on, movingforward, getting funding for
their treatment.
Mm-hmm.
But the other thing is thatwe're not even on the front
lines.
Yeah.
We are a second wave of response(yeah) as a foster based system,
(07:01):
we are not taking in strays, weare not the first place that
people go to dump their animals.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, right now,Pate and I have been pretty
upset and stressed out aboutthis overwhelming number of
animals in the shelter,especially big dogs, especially
Huskies and German Shepherds.
Oh God, yeah.
(07:21):
And...
Like what's with the Huskies?
Yeah.
And it's like there's moreHuskies than pit bulls now.
Yes.
Pit bulls are on the list, butyeah.
And the people at the shelters,have to see this kind of thing
every day.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, Washington used tohave a really low rate of
euthanization, but we are in areally bad position right now.
(07:43):
Yeah.
And shelters are euthanizingand...
Well, I mean, we have not hadshelters say they are at
capacity in years.
Yeah.
Like it's years.
10 years.
We're not, yeah.
And we're hearing from shelterswe haven't heard from the entire
10 years.
(08:03):
And now they're contacting usleft and right.
Yeah.
And we, we don't have any room.
We can't help them.
And that's why we keep askingfor Fosters.
We cannot save more until we getmore fosters and the way that
we've been doing things, likeI've been able in the past to,
talk to Texas or whatever, andthey say, Hey, we have some
(08:24):
puppies that we'd like to sendup.
When they contact me, they'reabout a month old or whatever.
And so I'm like, oh yeah, weshould have room in like a
month, a month and a half.
And that's how it's alwaysworked.
Mm-hmm.
And I've always had room.
And now we've got these puppiesthat(nobody's adopting) on top
(08:44):
of each other.
That in the past, like justmonths ago.
Yeah.
They would've been adoptedalready.
Yeah.
And so that we wouldn't havelike litter upon litter stacking
up.
And there's nothing wrong withthese puppies.
No.
There's absolutely nothingwrong.
And you know, so the people inthe shelters are on the front
(09:05):
lines and I am on this fashion,fashion, compassion fatigue
Facebook page, and sometimes Ican't read it, honestly.
Yeah.
Because it just reminds me thatthings are really bad or they're
worse in other places.
Oh yeah.
But there was one girl who wason there and she was just
saying, you know, it's gettingworse and it's every day.
(09:29):
And, and she's like, I don'twanna get up.
I don't want to go to work.
And you know, she's like, oneday I'm playing with this dog in
the yard and the next day he'sin the room.
Yeah.
And he's gone and she's like, Ijust sit here with my bottle and
cry.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd be drinking a lotand I don't drink.
(09:49):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, you know, alot of people in that position
too, they don't have someone totalk to.
They don't have someone thatunderstands.
Their spouse or, significantother is just not as into rescue
or whatever as them.
Or they're just dogs.
Like, if I hear that one moretime, I'm gonna punch someone in
the throat.
Yeah.
(10:10):
Sometimes people just feel likethey don't have an outlet and
there's no one that will listento them and understand their
pain.
And, you know, this is why theFacebook group exists.
Mm-hmm.
It takes a toll on us all thetime.
Yeah.
And I guarantee you, I am gonnalive 10 years less, at least
from all the stress and all thethings that we go through...
(10:32):
And we're not even on the frontlines.
So people are like, oh my God,I'm so stressed out.
And, and I'm like, okay.
Mm-hmm.
Because you know, I'm gettingall these emails.
Do you have room for this dog?
Do you have room for thislitter?
We have a mom and puppies.
The dog hit by a car, whatever.
I mean, and I'm not saying I'mshutting down, but if I can't
(10:54):
say yes to them, and we'vealways been able to say yes
before.
Yeah.
Yep.
And, and so it's, it's very,it's very not demoralizing.
No, it is.
But well, okay, fine.
But it, it just makes you feellike, what's the point?
Well.
This is just getting worse.
It's not getting better.
(11:15):
Right.
It's not, it's...
Not being able to help is, is akiller.
Yeah.
Especially being full and justhaving to say No, no, no.
I mean, you know, the, the deafsemi blind, Aussie puppy that is
waiting for us.
Yeah.
And...
And I've got a deaf puppy that Itook in that they postponed a
few times.
(11:36):
When I said I would take him,they waited for me to empty out
my house and my house didn't getemptied.
No.
And you just had to take him.
Because I promised, over a monthago.
Yeah.
Well and you know, I knew thatand I told the lady we can't
take him.
I mean, that is a Motley Zoo dogwritten all over.
(11:58):
Oh my God.
And especially to train him andmm-hmm.
You know, that's a, a reallyunique case to work with and...
And we've done it before.
Yeah.
We know how to work with deafdogs.
We know how to work with blinddogs.
And they need extra training.
Yeah.
They, they need a different kindof training.
Yep.
Thankfully this woman is gonnahang onto the dog until we have
a better time.
(12:19):
But, you know...
Please foster! That's gonna bemonths.
If we don't have people steppingup to take our healthy puppies,
the special needs un, specialneeds puppies, I mean, like
seriously, there's nothing wrongwith these puppies.
They're just large breedpuppies.
Right.
You know what, and small breedstoo.
Yeah.
I mean...
(12:40):
That's actually ridiculous.
I mean, you, you've had multiplelitters of small dogs and you
couldn't move them anywhere.
Mm-hmm.
No.
I mean, they're getting adoptedfrom your house, which doesn't
usually happen.
No.
Cuz normally there's Fosters whoare like, oh yeah, I'll take,
you know?
Yeah.
Well, and I mean, it is truethat people are going through a
high level of stress.
(13:00):
Mm-hmm.
But, you know, it's perspective.
Mm-hmm.
And it's just hard becausepeople freak out that their
dinner didn't come out right oron time, or I don't know,
whatever they're losing theirminds over.
Right.
And here we are really feelinglike the last 10 years of our
effort is just going backwards.
Yeah, that's what it definitelyfeels like.
(13:21):
It's backwards.
Cuz before we did not have aproblem in Washington.
We took animals from otherstates because we didn't have a
problem.
Yeah.
And now we do.
And this is us evencommunicating with each other.
You know, like rescues, talkingto rescues.
I mean, we have dogs from otherrescues.
(13:44):
We have dogs from the shelters.
Well, how about the fact that aspecific shelter where it's
their jurisdiction is supposedto take a dog that we found as a
stray and they, they won't callyou back because they have too
many dogs like that at theshelter and they don't want
another one and they trust us.
(14:05):
Yeah.
But this is...
But then I'm full.
This is exactly, we did not needthat one extra dog.
Right.
And we'll do right by'em.
Right.
You know, because we are arescue.
We saved him from being pavementpizza.
Okay.
But we were overwhelmed whenthat happened.
And then the shelter is supposedto take him and they won't.
(14:28):
Well, yeah.
They don't want to because, youknow, kennel stress.
Kennel stress is a real thing.
Yes.
And that could be the reasonthat that dog gets euthanized.
Right.
So, you know, it's...
Inconvenient for...
like I wouldn't say it'sinconvenient because saving a
life is not inconvenient, but itwasn't part of our plan to add
(14:52):
when we need to adopt out andmove out.
Well, and it's like organizedchaos, right?
It's always chaos.
Yeah.
But we're trying to put thepieces together.
Yeah.
And trying to make it makesense.
So everything isn't an emergencyall the time.
Right.
That is in and of itself.
And then, you know, dealing withpeople when they are not
listening or they are not doingwhat they're supposed to do.
(15:15):
And that could be any number ofpeople including your children
while you're trying to deal withthese things or whatever, you
just get so tired.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's the thing islike, you are tired.
I mean, not that I'mcomplaining, but I, I don't,
well...
We're not...
I don't sleep a lot.
(15:36):
No.
And, and that is true.
I have a lot of troublesleeping, and I'm lucky if I can
get through a week and thisdoesn't mean that I am like
lying awake, worrying.
That's not even it.
Oh, that's me.
Oh, see, I'm not like a worrier.
I just feel anxiety.
I just feel overwhelmed orstressed or, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(16:00):
Because I don't worry aboutthings that I can't fix.
Well, I mean, I wouldn't say,okay, maybe worry is not the
right word.
Mm-hmm.
But, I'm always in my head, I'mlike, okay, I need to move this
dog.
Like, some applications came in,like, how did, how did they
look?
I mean, will they take thispuppy?
Will they take, you know, thisdog?
Or, trying to make matches andthen people, I don't know, like,
(16:22):
I don't wanna say people are,not wishy-washy, what's that
word?
When they, not flaky, finicky?
No.
May, is it finicky?
Fickle?
That one, yes.
Fickle.
And just dealing with thefickleness, like one day it's
great and then you don't hearfrom them for a week and they're
like, Hey, so you know, I ammaybe interested in this dog.
(16:44):
And it's like, Yeah, it's been aweek.
I'm like, okay, I, granted it'sbeen a week.
Okay.
You know, cuz sometimes like wetry to answer as quickly as we
can.
Sometimes emails go to spam andpeople don't check their spam
folder.
Mm-hmm.
But delays happen.
Right?
I get it.
But when it is been a week, andthen they have a question.
(17:06):
Mm-hmm.
And then it's been another week.
So technically we're looking attwo weeks now, and they have
another question.
It's like, do you really wantthis dog?
Well, and what they don'trealize is their indecision is
holding up the show for all theother dogs that need help.
Right.
And every day an animal stayswith us is a day that another
(17:26):
one will die.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, people don'tunderstand.
You know, and they're like,well, it took you two weeks to
get back to me about adopting.
Yeah, that's just how long ittakes us.
But it, it shouldn't be, we'repotentially losing out on the
opportunity to help animalsbecause we're waiting on you.
Right.
For convenience or to make upyour mind, or to navigate
(17:47):
whatever situation you're goingthrough that's not on the animal
and...
right.
And that's where it gets hardand we have to be the heavy.
Right.
And I think I've said thisbefore when someone emailed, and
I don't know why it evenbothered them.
They were like, you know, youare always emailing at, at
(18:10):
inopportune times, like in themiddle of the night, and I'm
like, yeah, cuz I kind of needto, you know, like, so does, why
does it matter that I'm emailingyou at 2:00 AM.
Like, because I'm trying to gothrough my emails and...
I thought that was...
And get things done.
I thought that was really weirdtoo, because it's not like a
phone call where you have torespond(right?) At the time...
(18:32):
you respond when you get it.
Yeah.
And it doesn't matter when itwas sent.
That's why I like email.
Well, and who works around theclock to answer emails?
Who does that?
Only rescue.
Yeah.
Right.
Because the shelters don't, theshelters have specific hours.
And staff.
Right?
And I'm not knocking shelters,I'm just saying, yeah, you're
(18:52):
not getting a 2:00 AM email fromthe shelter and then the
shelters don't get the slack.
I mean, the flack that we dowell, like, how rude that you
would email me at 2:00 AM Yeah.
That's freaking weird.
But...
When we ran the daycare facilityin Redmond, that was probably
the furthest removed from realrescue that you could get and
(19:14):
still be working for a rescuewith a rescue.
And, in moving to now where,where our staff is now, it's
basically your foster home.
Not necessarily your house, butthey're working for a foster
home now.
And so it's kind of like a minishelter.
Mm-hmm.
And yes, we have a lot of dogsand yes, we are over capacity
(19:37):
and it's unusual, but, ourvolunteer coordinator, started
talking about compassion fatiguelike I had never heard of it.
And I was like, oh yeah.
And she's like, it's a realthing and I didn't know there
was a name for it.
And she told another trainerabout it.
(19:59):
And that trainer said there's aname for that.
So we've worked with thesepeople for years and they never
had an inkling of compassionfatigue.
Interesting.
And four months of this lifedealing with...
Actual hands-on, working withthe foster, being a part of the
(20:20):
actual rescue versus the takingcare of daycare clients as a
fundraiser for the rescue.
Mm-hmm.
So now they're actually seeingrescue versus client dogs.
Yeah.
I mean it...
Or just a different aspect?
Just a different point in their,the life of the rescue dog.
Right.
Like, by the time even ourfosters are going to the
(20:41):
daycare, they're healthy.
Yeah.
They are, you know, happy.
Yeah.
But they don't see how sick theyare.
Yeah.
They don't see, you know, But,but now they do, now they're
seeing and it is affecting them.
And so I felt bad.
I was like, I'm so sorry.
Because they never hadcompassion fatigue before, so
it, I didn't think it was aproblem but now I know it is.
(21:04):
And it's partially because ofthe change in the kind of
environment that we have.
Right?
Well, I mean...
In the daycare, they saw Maybean hour of when we had a
transport.
Yeah.
Or they'd wash a dirty puppy orYeah.
Hold a sick kitten or something.
Yeah.
And then, but that was like ablip.
Yeah.
And you know, now they see howoverwhelming too it is to have a
(21:26):
litter of puppies running aroundall the time that they have to
clean up after.
And It's not Instagram.
No.
Like, I mean, Instagram is theminute after you clean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it lasts maybe half anhour.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
You know what?
No, I lie.
It may it like you put a cleanthing down and then.
(21:46):
Okay, because Morpheus did thatthis the other night, like I
cleaned everything and I put newbedding down and he is like,
Hmm, I think I shall take ashit.
It is so frustrating.
This is part of the reason why Idon't even foster puppies at
all.
So much poop.
Yeah.
And so I feel really bad that Ididn't know that that was
(22:06):
happening.
But I, you know, told her aboutthe Facebook page and I'm like,
I don't even know though if youwanna join it because Oh, it
might make you feel worse.
Yeah.
Because it...
You're not even seeing...
No, like, it makes me, sometimesit makes me feel like.
Well, it's bad here, but it'sworse there.
And then how many people aresaying how bad it is.
(22:28):
Mm-hmm.
And they don't have anyone totalk to, or their rescue or
their shelter are completelydysfunctional and the people are
not doing right by the people ornot doing right by the animals.
Mm-hmm.
And, and who's gonna changethat?
Yeah.
Who is gonna change that?
And this is their life.
They're so committed to theanimals, but they can't do it
without all this red tape, allthis stuff that is hurting the
(22:52):
animals.
Mm-hmm.
And I mean, think about thepeople that actually do have to
euthanize the animals that, Imean, who will, who gets up in
the morning and says, I'm gonnago euthanize some animals today.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, you gotta it not allshelters...
Have compassionate peopleworking there.
(23:12):
Yes.
Right.
Because I have volunteered atshelters before and I'm like, do
you even like dogs?
Like, why the hell are you here?
I, I would say that it'sprobably a defense mechanism.
There are some, people that youknow, don't like animals become,
I mean, in animal control, thatcan be a problem.
(23:33):
Mm-hmm.
It's people who got into policework.
Not animal work.
Right.
And they're not doing it for thesake of the animals.
They're doing it, you know, theykind of fall into it, a lot of
people.
Yeah.
And so, you know, animal controlagents are known not to be the
most compassionate people.
Not all of'em.
We're not, we're not, you know,no.
We know some amazing ones,right.
(23:54):
I mean, super amazing ones, butthat is not always the norm.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and just like people say,you know, oh, you get into vet
care cuz you love animals.
I've seen some of those vets.
Yeah.
I can definitely say that is nottrue.
I've had some like seriouscallous vets, like, I don't
know, like, it was my secondlitter, it was Dolly and like
(24:14):
the vet there, and we're notgonna say the name or whatever,
but let's just say we never takeour animals there.
No.
Handed a dying puppy back to meand said, just keep her warm.
Mm.
And I'm like, and then they gaveme like, a glove(mm-hmm) with
(24:36):
warm water in it.
I'm like, you're fucking kiddingme.
Right?
Mm.
And, and now I know more, likemaybe I could have saved her, I
don't know.
Mm-hmm.
But I mean, that shit doesn't goaway right in your head.
And you, you talk aboutcompassion fatigue, like, Things
like that don't go away and itbuilds up and...
Well, and maybe they're socallous because they're way
(24:57):
burnt out.
Maybe they were at one pointconsiderate and had good, you
know, bedside manner orwhatever.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe they're just so far gone.
So there was a adoption eventthat we went to in the early
days and it might have been yourfirst event or your second
event, and there was anotherrescue there, which actually
(25:19):
come to think of it as kind ofsurprising cuz we don't normally
do things with otherorganizations there, but...
Not that we're like stuck up,but yeah.
No, it's a safety issue...
Right.
But there was this other rescuethere, and the lady, the way she
was talking to people was sohorrible.
And she made a bunch of peoplecry.
(25:41):
What?
And they were leaving her tablecrying.
And I turned to Bryan and Isaid, If I ever have that look
in my eye, if I ever get to thatpoint and I don't realize it,
you have to tell me.
You have to tell me and I haveto quit.
(26:02):
And I recognized that then andthere.
And this is why, you know, we'renot sanctimonious, you know,
playing God.
But this is why rescuers can bereally grumpy and rude, and
unfortunately it's prettycommon.
And you know, we do our best notto be that way.
Every now and then it slips out.
(26:23):
You gotta, you know, every nowand then someone has a bad day.
Yeah.
But this is why it's so tiringto feel like you are the garbage
men for for people.
Mm.
For people not doing the rightthing.
But wait a minute, why were theycrying?
What was she saying?
It was something like, you know,you could never have this kind
(26:44):
of puppy, because you live in anapartment and you would never
like...
Oh.
And she was like, but she wasmaking it like personal.
Ew.
And it wasn't like, no, it's nota good fit, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It was like, No, you would be ahorrible owner and...
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Maybe she's having a bad day.
Maybe a bunch of people gave herone star.
(27:04):
So she's like, you all sucked.
Right.
Well, and I mean, okay.
If you're gonna act that way,you get a one star.
Right?
Right, right.
But, but you know, none of theone stars that we have have has
been because we acted that way.
Well, they didn't get what theywanted.
Right.
But it's burnout.
Yeah.
And then when, we talk aboutsuicide with vets.
Yeah.
Dr.
Sophia Yin is probably one ofthe most well known vets that
(27:28):
took her life.
Yeah.
She had these great posters andinformation that she drew in a
really cute style...
I don't know that she drew'em,but she, I know what you're
talking about.
Those, the informational flyers.
Like with the whole like, fearfree, she kind of, changed vets'
outlook, I guess, made them morebedside manner instead of
(27:48):
very...
Yeah.
Just, a softer approach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you get better results.
Yeah.
Making the experience of goingto the vet less scary by doing
these things.
Yeah.
And here, let's, let's showthese pictures of what dog body
language looks like when they'rescared.
Yeah.
And we hung that in our, our dogdaycare room.
Mm-hmm.
So people could identify if oneof the dogs was behaving that
(28:11):
way.
Oh.
And, you know, so she was reallywell known.
Yeah.
She had made a lot of progressin the vet world in(yep) in,
people understanding bodylanguage, introducing animals to
each other, to kids.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And trying to make vet visitsnot so scary for dogs.
Yeah.
And she took her life andeveryone was dumbfounded.
(28:31):
Yeah.
Everyone was shocked.
But Because she was alwayssmiling.
Yeah.
But it just takes a toll.
Yeah, it does.
When I first moved up here, Ihad a vet friend and we, she was
my vet in Florida, and we bondedbecause we were both Basenji
lovers.
And we didn't always see eye toeye, you know?
(28:53):
She was a vet, so she's like,oh, vet food.
I was like, dude, no, and weargued back and forth, but in a
good way, right?
Because I could talk the talkwith when it came to medicine
and...
Well, you genuinely...
Terminology or whatever.
And you genuinely wanted tolearn from each other.
Right?
Yeah.
And so we were friends butobviously not great friends
(29:15):
because, you know, when shekilled herself, she didn't say
bye.
I had to find out why I hadn'theard from her in a while so I
found that, that she did takeher own life.
But when I moved away fromFlorida, we still, you know,
talked to each other onFacebook.
(29:36):
She showed me her new Basenjipuppy.
She told the Basenji rescueabout me because I was like, I
want another Basenji.
You know?
And because I love Basenjis andI think you've said that maybe
once or twice.
I'm trying to make it happen.
Yeah.
So we talked a lot.
And then she was kind of like mysounding board.
(29:58):
We had really bad demodex casesand I'm like, dude, this isn't
helping.
What do I do?
You know?
And.
So we had that camaraderie.
She was always there to help me.
And then we always talkedBasenjis and we always like,
okay, fine I was her soundingboard too, about like stupid
people.
And she was an ER vet.
(30:19):
Oh, she was a normal vet and shewas an ER vet, so, When I say
normal vet, sorry.
Like daytime vet?
Yeah, yeah.
Daytime, weekday vet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And yeah.
Well, and that's hard enough.
But then the ER adds thatcomplexity and how many times
people don't have the money tofix their pet, or they say like
they want to, but they don'thave the money.
(30:40):
Mm-hmm.
Or they're just like, oh no, I'mnot gonna spend that.
Right.
And then, you know, and then soshe would see the cases of take
care of your animal.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, why are you nottaking care of your animal?
And then she'd be the brunt ofpeople, yelling, saying You are
money grubber.
And she's like, I don't own thisclinic.
I don't set the prices.
(31:02):
You know.
Because everyone's emotional andthey want their care for free.
Right.
Yeah.
And I get it, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's expensive(Mm-hmm)Sometimes, I mean, like,"Gee",
20,000, we fixed him.
Mm-hmm.
He's well as fixed as he can be.
Right.
But I mean, and then DJ.
It was an overnight toxicityover water.
I mean, no one is going toexpect that.
(31:25):
Mm-hmm.
$3,000.
When I had to take Zelda aftershe was burned(Mm-hmm) the vet
asked for a$10,000 deposit.
Yeah right.
I mean, thankfully I had thatcredit.
It wasn't a problem for me.
Mm-hmm.
But it's a problem for mostpeople.
It would be a problem for me.
I mean, I don't have$10,000 justto, no.
(31:45):
Yeah.
You know, And I'm not wealthyeither.
But you know, we still, we havea lot of pets.
Right.
And we have a lot of expenseswith those pets.
Right.
We don't have kids, so that alsohelps balance it out.
Right.
But go on, keep telling yourstory.
No, but I mean my vet friendtook her life, and it was out of
the blue unexpected, cuz she wasalways smiling.
(32:10):
Right.
So compassion fatigue is real.
And even though I was a soundingboard for her, it wasn't enough.
No.
And she didn't let you knowabout that...
Mm-hmm.
Deepest part, you know?
Right.
Or, or how much she wassuffering from it.
Just a couple weeks ago, a localperson, the Youngest Old Cat
(32:30):
Lady.
Yes.
A girl named Ashley Morrison,who was actually a friend of a
friend of mine.
Mm-hmm.
And this friend of mine hadsaid, Hey, you know, my friend
is this girl, the youngest oldcat lady on Instagram, and you
know, you guys should hook upand be friends.
And so I started following herimmediately.
I didn't reach out to befriends, I guess.
(32:51):
I don't know.
Not on purpose, not whatever.
It just, you know, But I reallyadmired her marketing ability.
I really admired like how shewas able to reach people.
And, you know, it's not aboutthe likes, it's not about the
following, but you know, shetook hundreds of pictures every
day and she was so committed toit.
(33:12):
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, come to find outthat she, you know, she's
working with people that are ourfriends at a shelter.
And so when I found out, Ididn't know it was her, and then
I realized that that person andthis girl were the same person
and what a terrible loss to ourworld.
(33:33):
Right?
And, and what's ironic about itis that I had no idea who she
was.
I had never heard of her before,but that doesn't mean anything.
No.
She's pretty big.
And I, I know she's huge.
And then I saw this post abouther passing and.
I like to research, so I mean, IInstagrammed and then I found
out who she was and I was like,oh my gosh, she's local.
(33:55):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And then she had this hugefollowing, like two over 200,000
followers on Instagram and stufflike that.
So she was huge.
And, you know, I'm just, youknow, blinders on.
Well, I mean, we're busy doingwhat we're doing, right?
And you don't always know.
I wouldn't have known about herif my friend didn't point her
out Right.
To me.
But the fact is not, the factis, but it's weird that I knew
(34:16):
about her passing and I didn'tknow her, but you knew of her
and you followed her and didn't.
And this is a person who, whenshe Killed herself.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I don't even know how tomake it pretty, but when she
killed herself, she let her fansknow, or her followers, I guess,
(34:38):
by posting a goodbye.
Scheduling it.
Scheduling it like two daysafter she passed.
Yeah.
So nobody could call the police.
And, and, but they still No, butit, but, but they still did.
Yeah.
And then the family had to say,please stop.
She's gone.
Yeah.
You know, the, it is not callthe police and have them go
check on her.
She's gone and she's been gonefor, I wanna say it was two days
(35:01):
or something.
Yes.
Because it took them that longto kind of get their, their
stuff together to even make.
Even just make sense of it.
And they still haven't planned amemorial or anything because
they're, they're so, just,everyone is just so overwhelmed
and yeah, unfortunately herfather had killed himself.
Oh.
(35:21):
And one of her closest friendsreposted something she had said,
after her dad had died about,like reach out, get help.
Mm-hmm.
Like she was inspiring otherpeople(right) not to go down
that path.
Right.
And then, you know, here she isrescuing kittens left and right.
And she's doing a great job atit.
And she had started afoundation.
She had the attention of thekitten lady.
(35:43):
She had the attention of,Jackson Galaxy.
She had the attention of somebig people, so they knew who she
was and so obviously she wassuccessful.
Mm-hmm.
In that regard, but it wasn'tenough.
Right.
It was really heartbreaking thatsomeone that cared that much for
the animals and really lived forthem, you know, is gone.
(36:06):
Right?
I mean, we don't have enough ofthose people in the world.
No.
And it is the most compassionatepeople that have such a struggle
with depression.
I mean, and compassion fatigue.
You don't meet total dickheadsthat are suicidal because,
right.
Like...
Because they don't care.
Right.
Because they don't care.
So it affects the people withthe biggest hearts.
(36:28):
The sensitive Yeah.
People.
The sensitive people.
And I am terrified that this isgoing to become far more common
in our world, and it's gonna bepeople we know.
Right?
Because I mean, when you caresometimes you can care too much.
And that's where the compassionfatigue comes in.
(36:50):
Like, cuz it's not that youthink of a problem and it
manifests.
The problem's out there.
And even though you are making adifference, like Ashley, she
made a huge difference in theanimal world, right?
She saved a lot of lives.
She should have felt needed, andshould have felt fulfilled.
(37:11):
Mm-hmm.
You would think, I'm not sayingthat, you know.
No, not that you're putting thaton her.
But No, no, no.
But you would think with thework that you do, that you are
making a difference.
You are definitely making adifference when you step up to
foster, you are changing a life.
You are saving a life.
And Ashley did that.
(37:32):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
So if you ever feel empty andnot needed, not valued, not
anything like that, you know,that she should have felt that
she was valid.
Yeah.
You know, but it obviouslywasn't enough.
And because it's such a bigmountain.
(37:54):
Mm-hmm.
If you think about it.
Mm-hmm.
And, and like I said, you know,like 10 years ago, it's like we
took a step back, we had a bigass mountain and we thought,
hey, we finally, like, we blewthe top off.
You know, we are in control inWashington, our spay and neuter
like we are good(mm-hmm) inWashington and now let's go help
(38:16):
others.
And then now it's just like, oh,well, let me go put that cap
back on Mount Helens because weare not in control anymore.
And then when you think aboutthat mountain, getting to the
peak of that mountain becomesoutta sight and overwhelming
again.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and you're down at thebase and you're like, Ugh.
(38:37):
Do I even bother because like anavalanche just like knocked me
all the hell the way down.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and you know, it can be assimple as things like, you know,
your friends and family goingand buying a dog.
Oh, Jesus.
And I'm just like, wow.
Like I've dedicated my life tothese animals and I've tried to
(39:00):
educate people and I can't evenreach my own friends and family.
Mm-hmm.
And I have more in common withstrangers it seems.
Or, you know, sometimes, like,I'm not preaching, I'm, you
know, preaching to the choirwith complete strangers.
Mm-hmm.
And it's overwhelming to thinkthat the last 10 years we are
(39:21):
now moving backwards.
So that's all the time that wehave for today.
However, there's a lot more thatwe need to cover.
We need a trilogy.
I'm Jme.
I'm Pate.
And this is Rescue Shit.
Rock on.
Rescue on.
Hey, this is Pate.
And I'm Jme.
And we are Motley Zoo AnimalRescue, and this is our podcast
Rescue Shit.
Whoops.
So this week we're going tocontinue our discussion about
compassion fatigue.
Yeah.
A serious, serious subject.
People in different industriescan get it, but it's especially
(00:21):
common with people in the animalwelfare industry.
And it's basically just acomplete overload of emotion and
it turns into depression.
It can cause people to taketheir lives.
Right.
So compassion fatigue is reallyimportant.
And probably one of the mostimportant things is to recognize
(00:43):
that that's what it is.
Right.
And to seek help and not justbottle it up.
It's not just rescue who hascompassion fatigue.
I mean, it's the animalindustry.
Our vets, our vets suffer fromdepression.
I don't know if it's the highestrate of suicide, but...
It's up there.
Yeah.
And people are always like, why?
(01:04):
And honestly, I think it'sbecause a lot of time they're
dealing with people who won'tactually spend the money and the
time to help their dogs whenthey really need it.
Right.
And they don't want to euthanizedogs for things that could be
fixed, but they can't do it all.
They can't fix it all.
And we had a situation likethat.
(01:26):
Do you remember, Pumbaa?
Yeah.
It got to the point they werehaving a heated argument and it
got to the point where the vetwas going to call animal control
or the police.
I think they should do that moreoften than they do actually.
Probably.
It's hard.
It's hard to be that person,but...
Oh, I have no problem being...
I know, but the dog had a wound.
(01:49):
Oh my God.
That was gangrenous and his legwas rotting.
Well, they didn't even want togo to the vet in the first
place.
Right.
The daughter, the adult daughterhad to sneak the dog to the vet.
The second time.
Yes.
So this dog has a rotting leg.
It's in terrible pain.
Mm.
And the mom was screaming thatno one should touch her dog
(02:12):
and...
She was in serious denial.
Yeah.
And the vet would not give herthe dog back.
No.
And that was the second vet.
The first vet saw the condition,wrapped it and gave it back to
the woman.
Oh.
And yeah, she just did nothingabout it.
Left this old gross bandage onthis poor dog's leg...
Uhhuh.
So they had to sedate to take itoff.
(02:35):
Oh, wow.
I didn't know that part.
Yeah.
This is one of those, I'm justpulling in the driveway after a
long day at work.
Mm-hmm.
And Pate's like, Hey, we gotthis case at the vet.
And I'm like, all right, I'm onmy way.
I mean, that's the kind ofstuff, we get off the couch for,
we get up and go.
And it was your jam because itwas an older dog.
Yes.
A smaller, older dog.
(02:56):
Yes.
When I met him, I was juststunned.
One, he had tusks.
Hmm.
His bottom canine teeth theywere like tusks.
Mm-hmm.
I have never seen a dog likethat.
Mm-hmm.
And the other problem was thathe had such bad dental disease.
Mm.
So it was kind of a coin toss asto whether you deal with the
(03:19):
mouth or the leg first.
Right.
Because we know that severedental disease, because of the
bacteria in your mouth, it goesin your bloodstream.
So that's the reason why it wasa toss up.
It's because sometimes someconditions can be taken care of
when you clean and take care ofthe teeth.
Yes.
(03:39):
And you know, if he couldn't eatvery well, then it would be
harder to recover from surgeryan amputation if he couldn't eat
right.
And sadly that's what happened.
I trust that the vet did theright thing, but they amputated
his leg and it was really bad.
Yeah.
Right.
Because it was like, rock in ahard place.
(04:00):
Yeah.
And he wasn't healing.
Mm-hmm.
Like he wasn't recovering.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, most of the timeamputations are not that bad.
Right.
This dog was in terrible pain.
His, his...
Horrible! His mouth turned gray.
He was crashing(mm-hmm) andbleeding.
And so I brought him to the vetand...
The ER vet.
Yes.
(04:20):
And he actually lost a toothwhile they were trying to treat
him(Mm) because his teeth wereso bad.
Yeah.
And you know, they were like,he's not eating and drinking and
it's cuz he was in so much pain.
And so, I had to make thecall...
I don't know how long this dogsuffered before we got him.
Right.
But I knew at this stage itwould be six to eight weeks of
(04:45):
suffering if he wasn'trecovering properly.
Well, like could he even...
Yes.
Last six to eight weeks To heal.
Yeah.
To heal and then be in this typeof pain and discomfort.
Like,(no) was it fair to him?
And those are the questionsthat, you know, those are the
hard questions we have to askourselves sometimes.
I only had him for a couple daysand I was devastated to have to
(05:07):
make that choice.
Mm-hmm.
But I did not want him to suffer(no) any longer, especially
because I knew he'd beensuffering for a long time before
that.
Right.
It's just, it's a hard decision.
And then this, this is whatculminates in a type of
compassion fatigue is we seethese cases and we wanna save'em
all.
Right?
(05:27):
And we can't.
And when we are forced to make adecision like this, that was
brought on by pure neglect, youknow, like how, how can you be
around an animal in so muchpain.
Mm-hmm.
And know that, how do you notknow that you're, you're, you're
(05:52):
causing this?
Like seriously, you went to thefucking vet.
You went to the vet and you gotthe leg wrapped, you know, there
was a problem.
You know, there was an issue.
And you still did nothing andlet this puppy suffer.
It wasn't a puppy.
It was an older dog...
But he couldn't even walk on it.
I mean like, come on.
Yeah.
That's a pretty obvious signthat he's in pain.
(06:15):
Right.
This is the stuff we see andthis is the stuff that can build
up and be like, why do webother?
Yeah.
You know, it, it like takes apiece of your heart.
Yeah.
Every time.
And honestly, this is the stuffwe shield our volunteers and
fosters from for the most part.
Yeah.
They do not know the things thatwe see and most of the time when
(06:38):
we tell their stories, it's amuch, you know, toned down
version of the story because wecannot really express how bad it
was.
Right.
Because we're focused on, movingforward, getting funding for
their treatment.
Mm-hmm.
But the other thing is thatwe're not even on the front
lines.
Yeah.
We are a second wave of response(yeah) as a foster based system,
(07:01):
we are not taking in strays, weare not the first place that
people go to dump their animals.
Mm-hmm.
And so, you know, right now,Pate and I have been pretty
upset and stressed out aboutthis overwhelming number of
animals in the shelter,especially big dogs, especially
Huskies and German Shepherds.
Oh God, yeah.
(07:21):
And...
Like what's with the Huskies?
Yeah.
And it's like there's moreHuskies than pit bulls now.
Yes.
Pit bulls are on the list, butyeah.
And the people at the shelters,have to see this kind of thing
every day.
Mm-hmm.
And you know, Washington used tohave a really low rate of
euthanization, but we are in areally bad position right now.
(07:43):
Yeah.
And shelters are euthanizingand...
Well, I mean, we have not hadshelters say they are at
capacity in years.
Yeah.
Like it's years.
10 years.
We're not, yeah.
And we're hearing from shelterswe haven't heard from the entire
10 years.
(08:03):
And now they're contacting usleft and right.
Yeah.
And we, we don't have any room.
We can't help them.
And that's why we keep askingfor Fosters.
We cannot save more until we getmore fosters and the way that
we've been doing things, likeI've been able in the past to,
talk to Texas or whatever, andthey say, Hey, we have some
(08:24):
puppies that we'd like to sendup.
When they contact me, they'reabout a month old or whatever.
And so I'm like, oh yeah, weshould have room in like a
month, a month and a half.
And that's how it's alwaysworked.
Mm-hmm.
And I've always had room.
And now we've got these puppiesthat(nobody's adopting) on top
(08:44):
of each other.
That in the past, like justmonths ago.
Yeah.
They would've been adoptedalready.
Yeah.
And so that we wouldn't havelike litter upon litter stacking
up.
And there's nothing wrong withthese puppies.
No.
There's absolutely nothingwrong.
And you know, so the people inthe shelters are on the front
(09:05):
lines and I am on this fashion,fashion, compassion fatigue
Facebook page, and sometimes Ican't read it, honestly.
Yeah.
Because it just reminds me thatthings are really bad or they're
worse in other places.
Oh yeah.
But there was one girl who wason there and she was just
saying, you know, it's gettingworse and it's every day.
(09:29):
And, and she's like, I don'twanna get up.
I don't want to go to work.
And you know, she's like, oneday I'm playing with this dog in
the yard and the next day he'sin the room.
Yeah.
And he's gone and she's like, Ijust sit here with my bottle and
cry.
Yeah.
I mean, I'd be drinking a lotand I don't drink.
(09:49):
Yeah.
Well, and you know, you know, alot of people in that position
too, they don't have someone totalk to.
They don't have someone thatunderstands.
Their spouse or, significantother is just not as into rescue
or whatever as them.
Or they're just dogs.
Like, if I hear that one moretime, I'm gonna punch someone in
the throat.
Yeah.
(10:10):
Sometimes people just feel likethey don't have an outlet and
there's no one that will listento them and understand their
pain.
And, you know, this is why theFacebook group exists.
Mm-hmm.
It takes a toll on us all thetime.
Yeah.
And I guarantee you, I am gonnalive 10 years less, at least
from all the stress and all thethings that we go through...
(10:32):
And we're not even on the frontlines.
So people are like, oh my God,I'm so stressed out.
And, and I'm like, okay.
Mm-hmm.
Because you know, I'm gettingall these emails.
Do you have room for this dog?
Do you have room for thislitter?
We have a mom and puppies.
The dog hit by a car, whatever.
I mean, and I'm not saying I'mshutting down, but if I can't
(10:54):
say yes to them, and we'vealways been able to say yes
before.
Yeah.
Yep.
And, and so it's, it's very,it's very not demoralizing.
No, it is.
But well, okay, fine.
But it, it just makes you feellike, what's the point?
Well.
This is just getting worse.
It's not getting better.
(11:15):
Right.
It's not, it's...
Not being able to help is, is akiller.
Yeah.
Especially being full and justhaving to say No, no, no.
I mean, you know, the, the deafsemi blind, Aussie puppy that is
waiting for us.
Yeah.
And...
And I've got a deaf puppy that Itook in that they postponed a
few times.
(11:36):
When I said I would take him,they waited for me to empty out
my house and my house didn't getemptied.
No.
And you just had to take him.
Because I promised, over a monthago.
Yeah.
Well and you know, I knew thatand I told the lady we can't
take him.
I mean, that is a Motley Zoo dogwritten all over.
(11:58):
Oh my God.
And especially to train him andmm-hmm.
You know, that's a, a reallyunique case to work with and...
And we've done it before.
Yeah.
We know how to work with deafdogs.
We know how to work with blinddogs.
And they need extra training.
Yeah.
They, they need a different kindof training.
Yep.
Thankfully this woman is gonnahang onto the dog until we have
a better time.
(12:19):
But, you know...
Please foster! That's gonna bemonths.
If we don't have people steppingup to take our healthy puppies,
the special needs un, specialneeds puppies, I mean, like
seriously, there's nothing wrongwith these puppies.
They're just large breedpuppies.
Right.
You know what, and small breedstoo.
Yeah.
I mean...
(12:40):
That's actually ridiculous.
I mean, you, you've had multiplelitters of small dogs and you
couldn't move them anywhere.
Mm-hmm.
No.
I mean, they're getting adoptedfrom your house, which doesn't
usually happen.
No.
Cuz normally there's Fosters whoare like, oh yeah, I'll take,
you know?
Yeah.
Well, and I mean, it is truethat people are going through a
high level of stress.
(13:00):
Mm-hmm.
But, you know, it's perspective.
Mm-hmm.
And it's just hard becausepeople freak out that their
dinner didn't come out right oron time, or I don't know,
whatever they're losing theirminds over.
Right.
And here we are really feelinglike the last 10 years of our
effort is just going backwards.
Yeah, that's what it definitelyfeels like.
(13:21):
It's backwards.
Cuz before we did not have aproblem in Washington.
We took animals from otherstates because we didn't have a
problem.
Yeah.
And now we do.
And this is us evencommunicating with each other.
You know, like rescues, talkingto rescues.
I mean, we have dogs from otherrescues.
(13:44):
We have dogs from the shelters.
Well, how about the fact that aspecific shelter where it's
their jurisdiction is supposedto take a dog that we found as a
stray and they, they won't callyou back because they have too
many dogs like that at theshelter and they don't want
another one and they trust us.
(14:05):
Yeah.
But this is...
But then I'm full.
This is exactly, we did not needthat one extra dog.
Right.
And we'll do right by'em.
Right.
You know, because we are arescue.
We saved him from being pavementpizza.
Okay.
But we were overwhelmed whenthat happened.
And then the shelter is supposedto take him and they won't.
(14:28):
Well, yeah.
They don't want to because, youknow, kennel stress.
Kennel stress is a real thing.
Yes.
And that could be the reasonthat that dog gets euthanized.
Right.
So, you know, it's...
Inconvenient for...
like I wouldn't say it'sinconvenient because saving a
life is not inconvenient, but itwasn't part of our plan to add
(14:52):
when we need to adopt out andmove out.
Well, and it's like organizedchaos, right?
It's always chaos.
Yeah.
But we're trying to put thepieces together.
Yeah.
And trying to make it makesense.
So everything isn't an emergencyall the time.
Right.
That is in and of itself.
And then, you know, dealing withpeople when they are not
listening or they are not doingwhat they're supposed to do.
(15:15):
And that could be any number ofpeople including your children
while you're trying to deal withthese things or whatever, you
just get so tired.
Yeah.
I mean, and that's the thing islike, you are tired.
I mean, not that I'mcomplaining, but I, I don't,
well...
We're not...
I don't sleep a lot.
(15:36):
No.
And, and that is true.
I have a lot of troublesleeping, and I'm lucky if I can
get through a week and thisdoesn't mean that I am like
lying awake, worrying.
That's not even it.
Oh, that's me.
Oh, see, I'm not like a worrier.
I just feel anxiety.
I just feel overwhelmed orstressed or, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(16:00):
Because I don't worry aboutthings that I can't fix.
Well, I mean, I wouldn't say,okay, maybe worry is not the
right word.
Mm-hmm.
But, I'm always in my head, I'mlike, okay, I need to move this
dog.
Like, some applications came in,like, how did, how did they
look?
I mean, will they take thispuppy?
Will they take, you know, thisdog?
Or, trying to make matches andthen people, I don't know, like,
(16:22):
I don't wanna say people are,not wishy-washy, what's that
word?
When they, not flaky, finicky?
No.
May, is it finicky?
Fickle?
That one, yes.
Fickle.
And just dealing with thefickleness, like one day it's
great and then you don't hearfrom them for a week and they're
like, Hey, so you know, I ammaybe interested in this dog.
(16:44):
And it's like, Yeah, it's been aweek.
I'm like, okay, I, granted it'sbeen a week.
Okay.
You know, cuz sometimes like wetry to answer as quickly as we
can.
Sometimes emails go to spam andpeople don't check their spam
folder.
Mm-hmm.
But delays happen.
Right?
I get it.
But when it is been a week, andthen they have a question.
(17:06):
Mm-hmm.
And then it's been another week.
So technically we're looking attwo weeks now, and they have
another question.
It's like, do you really wantthis dog?
Well, and what they don'trealize is their indecision is
holding up the show for all theother dogs that need help.
Right.
And every day an animal stayswith us is a day that another
(17:26):
one will die.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, people don'tunderstand.
You know, and they're like,well, it took you two weeks to
get back to me about adopting.
Yeah, that's just how long ittakes us.
But it, it shouldn't be, we'repotentially losing out on the
opportunity to help animalsbecause we're waiting on you.
Right.
For convenience or to make upyour mind, or to navigate
(17:47):
whatever situation you're goingthrough that's not on the animal
and...
right.
And that's where it gets hardand we have to be the heavy.
Right.
And I think I've said thisbefore when someone emailed, and
I don't know why it evenbothered them.
They were like, you know, youare always emailing at, at
(18:10):
inopportune times, like in themiddle of the night, and I'm
like, yeah, cuz I kind of needto, you know, like, so does, why
does it matter that I'm emailingyou at 2:00 AM.
Like, because I'm trying to gothrough my emails and...
I thought that was...
And get things done.
I thought that was really weirdtoo, because it's not like a
phone call where you have torespond(right?) At the time...
(18:32):
you respond when you get it.
Yeah.
And it doesn't matter when itwas sent.
That's why I like email.
Well, and who works around theclock to answer emails?
Who does that?
Only rescue.
Yeah.
Right.
Because the shelters don't, theshelters have specific hours.
And staff.
Right?
And I'm not knocking shelters,I'm just saying, yeah, you're
(18:52):
not getting a 2:00 AM email fromthe shelter and then the
shelters don't get the slack.
I mean, the flack that we dowell, like, how rude that you
would email me at 2:00 AM Yeah.
That's freaking weird.
But...
When we ran the daycare facilityin Redmond, that was probably
the furthest removed from realrescue that you could get and
(19:14):
still be working for a rescuewith a rescue.
And, in moving to now where,where our staff is now, it's
basically your foster home.
Not necessarily your house, butthey're working for a foster
home now.
And so it's kind of like a minishelter.
Mm-hmm.
And yes, we have a lot of dogsand yes, we are over capacity
(19:37):
and it's unusual, but, ourvolunteer coordinator, started
talking about compassion fatiguelike I had never heard of it.
And I was like, oh yeah.
And she's like, it's a realthing and I didn't know there
was a name for it.
And she told another trainerabout it.
(19:59):
And that trainer said there's aname for that.
So we've worked with thesepeople for years and they never
had an inkling of compassionfatigue.
Interesting.
And four months of this lifedealing with...
Actual hands-on, working withthe foster, being a part of the
(20:20):
actual rescue versus the takingcare of daycare clients as a
fundraiser for the rescue.
Mm-hmm.
So now they're actually seeingrescue versus client dogs.
Yeah.
I mean it...
Or just a different aspect?
Just a different point in their,the life of the rescue dog.
Right.
Like, by the time even ourfosters are going to the
(20:41):
daycare, they're healthy.
Yeah.
They are, you know, happy.
Yeah.
But they don't see how sick theyare.
Yeah.
They don't see, you know, But,but now they do, now they're
seeing and it is affecting them.
And so I felt bad.
I was like, I'm so sorry.
Because they never hadcompassion fatigue before, so
it, I didn't think it was aproblem but now I know it is.
(21:04):
And it's partially because ofthe change in the kind of
environment that we have.
Right?
Well, I mean...
In the daycare, they saw Maybean hour of when we had a
transport.
Yeah.
Or they'd wash a dirty puppy orYeah.
Hold a sick kitten or something.
Yeah.
And then, but that was like ablip.
Yeah.
And you know, now they see howoverwhelming too it is to have a
(21:26):
litter of puppies running aroundall the time that they have to
clean up after.
And It's not Instagram.
No.
Like, I mean, Instagram is theminute after you clean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then it lasts maybe half anhour.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
You know what?
No, I lie.
It may it like you put a cleanthing down and then.
(21:46):
Okay, because Morpheus did thatthis the other night, like I
cleaned everything and I put newbedding down and he is like,
Hmm, I think I shall take ashit.
It is so frustrating.
This is part of the reason why Idon't even foster puppies at
all.
So much poop.
Yeah.
And so I feel really bad that Ididn't know that that was
(22:06):
happening.
But I, you know, told her aboutthe Facebook page and I'm like,
I don't even know though if youwanna join it because Oh, it
might make you feel worse.
Yeah.
Because it...
You're not even seeing...
No, like, it makes me, sometimesit makes me feel like.
Well, it's bad here, but it'sworse there.
And then how many people aresaying how bad it is.
(22:28):
Mm-hmm.
And they don't have anyone totalk to, or their rescue or
their shelter are completelydysfunctional and the people are
not doing right by the people ornot doing right by the animals.
Mm-hmm.
And, and who's gonna changethat?
Yeah.
Who is gonna change that?
And this is their life.
They're so committed to theanimals, but they can't do it
without all this red tape, allthis stuff that is hurting the
(22:52):
animals.
Mm-hmm.
And I mean, think about thepeople that actually do have to
euthanize the animals that, Imean, who will, who gets up in
the morning and says, I'm gonnago euthanize some animals today.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, you gotta it not allshelters...
Have compassionate peopleworking there.
(23:12):
Yes.
Right.
Because I have volunteered atshelters before and I'm like, do
you even like dogs?
Like, why the hell are you here?
I, I would say that it'sprobably a defense mechanism.
There are some, people that youknow, don't like animals become,
I mean, in animal control, thatcan be a problem.
(23:33):
Mm-hmm.
It's people who got into policework.
Not animal work.
Right.
And they're not doing it for thesake of the animals.
They're doing it, you know, theykind of fall into it, a lot of
people.
Yeah.
And so, you know, animal controlagents are known not to be the
most compassionate people.
Not all of'em.
We're not, we're not, you know,no.
We know some amazing ones,right.
(23:54):
I mean, super amazing ones, butthat is not always the norm.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and just like people say,you know, oh, you get into vet
care cuz you love animals.
I've seen some of those vets.
Yeah.
I can definitely say that is nottrue.
I've had some like seriouscallous vets, like, I don't
know, like, it was my secondlitter, it was Dolly and like
(24:14):
the vet there, and we're notgonna say the name or whatever,
but let's just say we never takeour animals there.
No.
Handed a dying puppy back to meand said, just keep her warm.
Mm.
And I'm like, and then they gaveme like, a glove(mm-hmm) with
(24:36):
warm water in it.
I'm like, you're fucking kiddingme.
Right?
Mm.
And, and now I know more, likemaybe I could have saved her, I
don't know.
Mm-hmm.
But I mean, that shit doesn't goaway right in your head.
And you, you talk aboutcompassion fatigue, like, Things
like that don't go away and itbuilds up and...
Well, and maybe they're socallous because they're way
(24:57):
burnt out.
Maybe they were at one pointconsiderate and had good, you
know, bedside manner orwhatever.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe they're just so far gone.
So there was a adoption eventthat we went to in the early
days and it might have been yourfirst event or your second
event, and there was anotherrescue there, which actually
(25:19):
come to think of it as kind ofsurprising cuz we don't normally
do things with otherorganizations there, but...
Not that we're like stuck up,but yeah.
No, it's a safety issue...
Right.
But there was this other rescuethere, and the lady, the way she
was talking to people was sohorrible.
And she made a bunch of peoplecry.
(25:41):
What?
And they were leaving her tablecrying.
And I turned to Bryan and Isaid, If I ever have that look
in my eye, if I ever get to thatpoint and I don't realize it,
you have to tell me.
You have to tell me and I haveto quit.
(26:02):
And I recognized that then andthere.
And this is why, you know, we'renot sanctimonious, you know,
playing God.
But this is why rescuers can bereally grumpy and rude, and
unfortunately it's prettycommon.
And you know, we do our best notto be that way.
Every now and then it slips out.
(26:23):
You gotta, you know, every nowand then someone has a bad day.
Yeah.
But this is why it's so tiringto feel like you are the garbage
men for for people.
Mm.
For people not doing the rightthing.
But wait a minute, why were theycrying?
What was she saying?
It was something like, you know,you could never have this kind
(26:44):
of puppy, because you live in anapartment and you would never
like...
Oh.
And she was like, but she wasmaking it like personal.
Ew.
And it wasn't like, no, it's nota good fit, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It was like, No, you would be ahorrible owner and...
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Maybe she's having a bad day.
Maybe a bunch of people gave herone star.
(27:04):
So she's like, you all sucked.
Right.
Well, and I mean, okay.
If you're gonna act that way,you get a one star.
Right?
Right, right.
But, but you know, none of theone stars that we have have has
been because we acted that way.
Well, they didn't get what theywanted.
Right.
But it's burnout.
Yeah.
And then when, we talk aboutsuicide with vets.
Yeah.
Dr.
Sophia Yin is probably one ofthe most well known vets that
(27:28):
took her life.
Yeah.
She had these great posters andinformation that she drew in a
really cute style...
I don't know that she drew'em,but she, I know what you're
talking about.
Those, the informational flyers.
Like with the whole like, fearfree, she kind of, changed vets'
outlook, I guess, made them morebedside manner instead of
(27:48):
very...
Yeah.
Just, a softer approach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and you get better results.
Yeah.
Making the experience of goingto the vet less scary by doing
these things.
Yeah.
And here, let's, let's showthese pictures of what dog body
language looks like when they'rescared.
Yeah.
And we hung that in our, our dogdaycare room.
Mm-hmm.
So people could identify if oneof the dogs was behaving that
(28:11):
way.
Oh.
And, you know, so she was reallywell known.
Yeah.
She had made a lot of progressin the vet world in(yep) in,
people understanding bodylanguage, introducing animals to
each other, to kids.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And trying to make vet visitsnot so scary for dogs.
Yeah.
And she took her life andeveryone was dumbfounded.
(28:31):
Yeah.
Everyone was shocked.
But Because she was alwayssmiling.
Yeah.
But it just takes a toll.
Yeah, it does.
When I first moved up here, Ihad a vet friend and we, she was
my vet in Florida, and we bondedbecause we were both Basenji
lovers.
And we didn't always see eye toeye, you know?
(28:53):
She was a vet, so she's like,oh, vet food.
I was like, dude, no, and weargued back and forth, but in a
good way, right?
Because I could talk the talkwith when it came to medicine
and...
Well, you genuinely...
Terminology or whatever.
And you genuinely wanted tolearn from each other.
Right?
Yeah.
And so we were friends butobviously not great friends
(29:15):
because, you know, when shekilled herself, she didn't say
bye.
I had to find out why I hadn'theard from her in a while so I
found that, that she did takeher own life.
But when I moved away fromFlorida, we still, you know,
talked to each other onFacebook.
(29:36):
She showed me her new Basenjipuppy.
She told the Basenji rescueabout me because I was like, I
want another Basenji.
You know?
And because I love Basenjis andI think you've said that maybe
once or twice.
I'm trying to make it happen.
Yeah.
So we talked a lot.
And then she was kind of like mysounding board.
(29:58):
We had really bad demodex casesand I'm like, dude, this isn't
helping.
What do I do?
You know?
And.
So we had that camaraderie.
She was always there to help me.
And then we always talkedBasenjis and we always like,
okay, fine I was her soundingboard too, about like stupid
people.
And she was an ER vet.
(30:19):
Oh, she was a normal vet and shewas an ER vet, so, When I say
normal vet, sorry.
Like daytime vet?
Yeah, yeah.
Daytime, weekday vet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And yeah.
Well, and that's hard enough.
But then the ER adds thatcomplexity and how many times
people don't have the money tofix their pet, or they say like
they want to, but they don'thave the money.
(30:40):
Mm-hmm.
Or they're just like, oh no, I'mnot gonna spend that.
Right.
And then, you know, and then soshe would see the cases of take
care of your animal.
Mm-hmm.
You know, like, why are you nottaking care of your animal?
And then she'd be the brunt ofpeople, yelling, saying You are
money grubber.
And she's like, I don't own thisclinic.
I don't set the prices.
(31:02):
You know.
Because everyone's emotional andthey want their care for free.
Right.
Yeah.
And I get it, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's expensive(Mm-hmm)Sometimes, I mean, like,"Gee",
20,000, we fixed him.
Mm-hmm.
He's well as fixed as he can be.
Right.
But I mean, and then DJ.
It was an overnight toxicityover water.
I mean, no one is going toexpect that.
(31:25):
Mm-hmm.
$3,000.
When I had to take Zelda aftershe was burned(Mm-hmm) the vet
asked for a$10,000 deposit.
Yeah right.
I mean, thankfully I had thatcredit.
It wasn't a problem for me.
Mm-hmm.
But it's a problem for mostpeople.
It would be a problem for me.
I mean, I don't have$10,000 justto, no.
(31:45):
Yeah.
You know, And I'm not wealthyeither.
But you know, we still, we havea lot of pets.
Right.
And we have a lot of expenseswith those pets.
Right.
We don't have kids, so that alsohelps balance it out.
Right.
But go on, keep telling yourstory.
No, but I mean my vet friendtook her life, and it was out of
the blue unexpected, cuz she wasalways smiling.
(32:10):
Right.
So compassion fatigue is real.
And even though I was a soundingboard for her, it wasn't enough.
No.
And she didn't let you knowabout that...
Mm-hmm.
Deepest part, you know?
Right.
Or, or how much she wassuffering from it.
Just a couple weeks ago, a localperson, the Youngest Old Cat
(32:30):
Lady.
Yes.
A girl named Ashley Morrison,who was actually a friend of a
friend of mine.
Mm-hmm.
And this friend of mine hadsaid, Hey, you know, my friend
is this girl, the youngest oldcat lady on Instagram, and you
know, you guys should hook upand be friends.
And so I started following herimmediately.
I didn't reach out to befriends, I guess.
(32:51):
I don't know.
Not on purpose, not whatever.
It just, you know, But I reallyadmired her marketing ability.
I really admired like how shewas able to reach people.
And, you know, it's not aboutthe likes, it's not about the
following, but you know, shetook hundreds of pictures every
day and she was so committed toit.
(33:12):
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, come to find outthat she, you know, she's
working with people that are ourfriends at a shelter.
And so when I found out, Ididn't know it was her, and then
I realized that that person andthis girl were the same person
and what a terrible loss to ourworld.
(33:33):
Right?
And, and what's ironic about itis that I had no idea who she
was.
I had never heard of her before,but that doesn't mean anything.
No.
She's pretty big.
And I, I know she's huge.
And then I saw this post abouther passing and.
I like to research, so I mean, IInstagrammed and then I found
out who she was and I was like,oh my gosh, she's local.
(33:55):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
And then she had this hugefollowing, like two over 200,000
followers on Instagram and stufflike that.
So she was huge.
And, you know, I'm just, youknow, blinders on.
Well, I mean, we're busy doingwhat we're doing, right?
And you don't always know.
I wouldn't have known about herif my friend didn't point her
out Right.
To me.
But the fact is not, the factis, but it's weird that I knew
(34:16):
about her passing and I didn'tknow her, but you knew of her
and you followed her and didn't.
And this is a person who, whenshe Killed herself.
Mm-hmm.
Like, I don't even know how tomake it pretty, but when she
killed herself, she let her fansknow, or her followers, I guess,
(34:38):
by posting a goodbye.
Scheduling it.
Scheduling it like two daysafter she passed.
Yeah.
So nobody could call the police.
And, and, but they still No, butit, but, but they still did.
Yeah.
And then the family had to say,please stop.
She's gone.
Yeah.
You know, the, it is not callthe police and have them go
check on her.
She's gone and she's been gonefor, I wanna say it was two days
(35:01):
or something.
Yes.
Because it took them that longto kind of get their, their
stuff together to even make.
Even just make sense of it.
And they still haven't planned amemorial or anything because
they're, they're so, just,everyone is just so overwhelmed
and yeah, unfortunately herfather had killed himself.
Oh.
(35:21):
And one of her closest friendsreposted something she had said,
after her dad had died about,like reach out, get help.
Mm-hmm.
Like she was inspiring otherpeople(right) not to go down
that path.
Right.
And then, you know, here she isrescuing kittens left and right.
And she's doing a great job atit.
And she had started afoundation.
She had the attention of thekitten lady.
(35:43):
She had the attention of,Jackson Galaxy.
She had the attention of somebig people, so they knew who she
was and so obviously she wassuccessful.
Mm-hmm.
In that regard, but it wasn'tenough.
Right.
It was really heartbreaking thatsomeone that cared that much for
the animals and really lived forthem, you know, is gone.
(36:06):
Right?
I mean, we don't have enough ofthose people in the world.
No.
And it is the most compassionatepeople that have such a struggle
with depression.
I mean, and compassion fatigue.
You don't meet total dickheadsthat are suicidal because,
right.
Like...
Because they don't care.
Right.
Because they don't care.
So it affects the people withthe biggest hearts.
(36:28):
The sensitive Yeah.
People.
The sensitive people.
And I am terrified that this isgoing to become far more common
in our world, and it's gonna bepeople we know.
Right?
Because I mean, when you caresometimes you can care too much.
And that's where the compassionfatigue comes in.
(36:50):
Like, cuz it's not that youthink of a problem and it
manifests.
The problem's out there.
And even though you are making adifference, like Ashley, she
made a huge difference in theanimal world, right?
She saved a lot of lives.
She should have felt needed, andshould have felt fulfilled.
(37:11):
Mm-hmm.
You would think, I'm not sayingthat, you know.
No, not that you're putting thaton her.
But No, no, no.
But you would think with thework that you do, that you are
making a difference.
You are definitely making adifference when you step up to
foster, you are changing a life.
You are saving a life.
And Ashley did that.
(37:32):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
So if you ever feel empty andnot needed, not valued, not
anything like that, you know,that she should have felt that
she was valid.
Yeah.
You know, but it obviouslywasn't enough.
And because it's such a bigmountain.
(37:54):
Mm-hmm.
If you think about it.
Mm-hmm.
And, and like I said, you know,like 10 years ago, it's like we
took a step back, we had a bigass mountain and we thought,
hey, we finally, like, we blewthe top off.
You know, we are in control inWashington, our spay and neuter
like we are good(mm-hmm) inWashington and now let's go help
(38:16):
others.
And then now it's just like, oh,well, let me go put that cap
back on Mount Helens because weare not in control anymore.
And then when you think aboutthat mountain, getting to the
peak of that mountain becomesoutta sight and overwhelming
again.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and you're down at thebase and you're like, Ugh.
(38:37):
Do I even bother because like anavalanche just like knocked me
all the hell the way down.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and you know, it can be assimple as things like, you know,
your friends and family goingand buying a dog.
Oh, Jesus.
And I'm just like, wow.
Like I've dedicated my life tothese animals and I've tried to
(39:00):
educate people and I can't evenreach my own friends and family.
Mm-hmm.
And I have more in common withstrangers it seems.
Or, you know, sometimes, like,I'm not preaching, I'm, you
know, preaching to the choirwith complete strangers.
Mm-hmm.
And it's overwhelming to thinkthat the last 10 years we are
(39:21):
now moving backwards.
So that's all the time that wehave for today.
However, there's a lot more thatwe need to cover.
We need a trilogy.
I'm Jme.
I'm Pate.
And this is Rescue Shit.
Rock on.
Rescue on.
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