July 27, 2023 • 42 mins
Learn Pate's tricks and tips for bottle-feeding babies including how to hold them, what formula she uses, and more! You'll also learn about some of the animals we've had to bottle-feed over the years and how we work to ensure more successes than failures.
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hi, I am Jme.
And I'm Pate.
And we are Motley Zoo AnimalRescue.
This is our podcast Rescue shit.
Boop.
Today we're going to talk aboutbottle babies.
They're so damn cute.
They're so damn messy andthey're so damn tiring.
(00:23):
So when I went in the bathroom,okay, the fatty, fatty chunker,
we, he can't even put his legsdown because he is so fat.
They just stick out straightout.
I know.
So, yeah.
Pate has this puppy, the mom isnot being very helpful.
She wouldn't even look at me.
She is petrified.
(00:44):
Yeah.
She's like, just...
She is shut down so hard.
Yeah.
I, I haven't seen that in a longtime.
Mm-hmm.
But, anyway, the most of thebabies are like a handful size,
you know, and this one is likethree or four times the size of
the others and he doesn't lookreal.
(01:04):
He looks like a little, likethis tiny(Fizzgig) head.
Yes.
He is completely round and hislegs can't even like fold over
his body because he's so fat.
I'm not fat shaming him.
It's just funny because he looksridiculous because his body is
(01:25):
so big,(so much big), muchbigger and rounder than any
others to the point where hislegs are barely functional.
Yeah.
But he's the healthiest one.
Yeah, he, I mean, and he'seating on his own now too.
What?
I'm like, dude, just stop.
He's like two weeks old.
He's eating his mom's food.
Wow.
Okay.
Yeah, he is.
(01:47):
He's just like, I gotta eat.
He's for two, eat more.
He really is.
He's like, that bottle's notenough for me.
What is his name?
Do we have a name for him?
Well, I was thinking I wanted tocall him like LS Dunes.
LS Dunes, which is the band thatFrank Iro from My Chemical
Romance is in, as well asAnthony Green from Sison.
(02:09):
Do they want a fat puppy namedafter them?
I don't know.
Frank Iro has two adopted rescuedogs.
Oh.
And he was on the Dodo becausehe and his family rescued
snapping turtle babies orsomething like that.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah, he's a really cool dude.
Well, do we have Showboxconnections?
I keep asking you and you don'tdo anything about it?
(02:30):
Are you kidding me?
I was just gonna tell you thatI'm just sitting around in my
ass like all the time.
I'm not just writing like Grant,I'm not doing anything.
Like, not even grant writing?
No.
Oh my God.
Like, I mean, that's all you do.
I know! That's your job.
I wrote, Jonna and asked her whothe new contact was.
(02:51):
'cause we hadn't seen any showsthere in a while and wondering
if they wanted animals.
So yeah, I thought of you.
L S Dunes.
I am working on it.
Frankie Frank.
When is it though?
I can't remember.
August two.
Oh yeah.
So see we have time.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I don't know what'll happen, soI don't know who works there.
And I just said I miss Glen.
(03:12):
Yes.
Yeah, Glen's our man.
He's, he's the one who kind oflike started it rolling for us.
He really did.
You know(he did) back in the daywhen we were just showing up in
the back.
Yeah.
And the cold.
And the rain.
Yeah.
With a crate of kittens.
He embraced that.
Yes, he did.
And it is because of him that wesaw Snoop.
It's because of him that we sawthe skinny puppy.
(03:34):
Skinny puppy who remembered usand remembered who opened for
them when we were there withkittens.
I know.
And they remember that we hadkittens'cause this time we
didn't have kittens.
We had puppies.
Yeah.
And then Tara, remembered, whatyear it was that we were there
with Snoop.
Yeah.
And I guess because for themit's like they go by years by
(03:55):
who they played with or(mm-hmm)whatever.
And so that's how they, they canremember so precisely because
it.
It's like how they organizetheir lives.
Yeah.
And she was there with Young andthe famous.
Naked and Famous.
The Naked, the Young and theFamous No...
Young and The Restless.
The song is called Young Bloodby the Naked and Famous.
Yeah.
I got confused.
That's funny.
(04:15):
Yeah.
But yeah, so normally you wouldnever bring Bottle Babies to a
show.
But we had both.
We've done that before.
Well, I mean with the kittens.
Yeah, but normally not.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's not like we wantthem all fondled and...
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Held.
It's not that, but we bring thembecause it's necessary.
Right.
So this time when we had Snoop,we had actually three week old
(04:37):
bottle kittens and three weekold puppy bottle puppies.
So it was kind of interestingbecause there were both.
Right.
Yeah.
You and Jessica had to bringthem with you.
Yeah.
Especially, yeah.
To feed the kittens.
They'll be a little bit moreindependent like kittens you
really bottle feed them onlyuntil they're about four weeks.
Mm-hmm.
(04:57):
And then, and then they're good.
I mean, kittens actually maturefaster in that regard than
puppies.
Yeah.
They're litter box training atthat point.
They, I mean, their dexterity isso much better than the puppies.
I mean, the puppies look likethey're a bunch of drunks.
Yeah.
Running around in Slowmo, tryingto hit each other and then
missing because they've had onetoo many beers that night.
(05:18):
Which are easier, do you think,to bottle feed kittens or
puppies, which are moresuccessful?
I would say for me, for mepersonally, puppies are easier.
I think they are.
They're less, a little lessfragile than kittens.
Kittens are so fragile.
Well, kittens, I tend to tubefeed more often.
Right.
Well,'cause it'll take youhours.
(05:39):
If you don't, yeah.
Tube feeding kittens is so muchquicker.
Mm-hmm.
Especially in the middle of thenight.
Oh yeah.
It's been a long time since I'vebottle fed babies, so I can't
actually remember because I onlykeep things in my head that are
immediately important.
How long do you go betweenfeedings for kittens and
puppies?
Is it the same?
It's very much the same.
With newborns, it's an hour totwo hours.
(06:01):
And then I pretty much do likean hour a week, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So one week is one hour maybe,depending on how thrifty they
are, how strong their suckle is.
I mean, there's all these likedifferent variables that you
have to think about, right?
You gotta think about the flowof the bottle.
(06:21):
I mean the nipple, you know,'cause you got the slow nipples,
you got the medium flow.
You got the fast flow.
The slow flow is also variablebased on the different types of
bottle brands like Playtex is myfavorite.
Which I was surprised that youwere using a human baby bottle
with a human nipple for suchsmall puppies that still worked
(06:44):
for them.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Puppies are awesome that way.
I guess I wouldn't say Isurprised, but.
Surprised because I don't knowthat I've ever seen you feed
such small puppies(Yeah) beforeand I knew you used the Playtex
bottles for bigger puppies, butI didn't know that you could use
it for such small puppies.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
As long as I have a strongsuckle it's good.
(07:04):
Papa Emertis, puppy, Papa as wecall him, or just papa.
He is named after Tobias'sForge.
Tobias Forge his character inGhost.
So Papa Emertis, that's hispersona.
He is our most fragile of thelitter.
He is the one that I had to tubefeed and he just graduated from
(07:27):
tube feeding.
I don't know exactly what hisissue is.
He's literally a quarter thesize of the chubby, chubby,
chubby two by four.
Yeah.
I think he finally hit half apound.
He and his sister have hit halfa pound.
But his sister is more thriftythan he is.
She's never had to be bottlefed.
Mm.
(07:47):
I had to tube feed him'cause hewas lethargic.
He just, Just didn't even care.
Why don't you explain what tubefeeding is?
I bet a lot of people don't knowwhat that is.
So you get a good sized syringe.
A 10 cc syringe works reallywell with these tiny chihuahua
puppy types.
Actually like Papa was so littlethat I first used a, just a
(08:09):
three cc, syringe and thengraduated to a six.
And then when I stopped feedinghim, he was taking, eight ccs.
They don't know what the tube iseither.
So the tube is, it's a nasalgastric type of tube.
You can use it, with humans aswell.
(08:30):
You have to be really carefulwhen you tube feed, right,
because there's two, holes thatthe tube can go into.
And the tube is like, I wannasay like maybe a foot long, 12
inches.
It's like a spaghetti.
It's about the thickness of aspaghetti tube.
It's, there's different...
Well, The ones that you woulduse for the kittens or the
puppies?
At the puppies?
Yeah.
It's the tiny, the tiny ones.
Yeah.
It's the size of a spaghetti.
(08:50):
Mm-hmm.
And it's about a foot long.
And one end has, you know, kindof a flange tube so that it can
fit on the end of the syringe.
Yes.
And then the tip at thespaghetti end has two tiny
little holes.
Yeah.
And when I tube feed, I have touse the formula that's liquid in
a can.
Yeah.
'cause the chunks.
Because if I make formula,there's always like some grit or
(09:13):
something.
And when the tubes are supertiny, like the ones that I have
to use for chihuahua mixedpuppies, then it won't go
through.
No.
It'll clog.
Yeah, it'll clog.
I mean the holes are like thesize of like a pin prick in a
balloon.
They're very, very tiny.
(Super.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.) And, and so explain alittle bit about how you have
to, you know, put it down theirthroat and what you do.
(09:34):
Yeah.
So you have to be very careful.
Like I said, there's two holesthat you can actually slip the
tube in.
You've got your esophagus, andthen you obviously have your...
Windpipe.
Yeah, that one I obviously, andthen I forgot the name of it.
So the esophagus obviously goesdown to your stomach and that's
(09:55):
what you want.
You don't want it to go down thewindpipe, but when you're
putting a tube in, you cannotsee which hole it's going down.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so, um, I used to tube feedKormorants too.
I used to when it had red tide.
Yeah.
I tube fed op possums.
It was easier with Korans'causeyou just go down the side of
their throat.
Right.
With puppies and kittens, I willactually do it diagonally
(10:19):
(mm-hmm) across their mouth(mm-hmm) and so that it goes
down one side because yourwindpipe is in the middle of the
esophagus going down to yourstomach.
So if you just like slip thetube, like right in the middle,
down the back of your throat,you're most likely gonna go into
their lungs.
Right.
And you don't wanna do that.
Mm-hmm.
(10:40):
You have to measure the tubefirst to make sure that it goes
in their stomach.
And the way to measure that isto get the bottom.
You put the tube on the outside,so you're like estimating where
their stomach is, and you putthe end of the spaghetti...
Which underneath, underneath thesternum.
(Mm-hmm) So you can feel theirsternum.
Mm-hmm.
And then underneath that, that'skind of where their stomach is.
So you put the bottom of thetube there and then you kind of
(11:02):
go up and then do a little curvewhere their throat is, and then
you mark the outside of it witha Sharpie.
Mm-hmm.
So you don't go past that line.
Yeah.
So that you know exactly themeasurement of how far down it
goes because you don't want itto obviously go too far but you
don't want it to be too shorteither, because again, you've
(11:23):
got risk of aspiration.
Aspiration is when somethinggoes down your windpipe(mm-hmm)
that is not air.
When it's milk, it can givethem, aspiration pneumonia.
(Mm-hmm) And a lot of animalscan die from that.
Yeah.
And when I had the Tube feedGroot which was our cleft palate
puppy, he was really bad aboutaspiration.
(11:44):
We had some ER visits with him,but now I'm an expert.
No, I'm joking.
So once you have the sharpiemark on the outside of the tube,
you feed it down their throat.
And it helps sometimes when theyswallow.
Mm-hmm.
And then it goes to the outsidethe corner of their mouth.
You see where the mark is andthen, then you kind of close the
(12:05):
tube.
Well, I do, I kind of closetheir mouth with the tube with
my thumb.
And then you want to pull backon the syringe a little bit and
if the syringe just pulls backreally easily, you are in their
lungs.
And then you better take thattube out.
Mm-hmm.
But, If it's in their stomach,there's a little bit of suction.
(12:27):
So if you pull it back a little,it'll pop back in the syringe.
Yes.
And the syringe goes back intoplace.
Yes.
And then, you just slowly andgradually, I like to do like a
little tap, tap with my thumb,and then it'll be like one
little hash mark on the syringeas I tap it down(mm, mm-hmm)
(12:48):
with them.
And then when you remove it, youactually want to fold the tube
that's on the outside of theirmouth.
You wanna close it, like pinchit.
Mm-hmm.
When you take it out.
So it doesn't drip more downtheir throat.
Down the windpipe Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
When you're like pulling it outso that it creates kinda like
(13:08):
the hose, you know, when youcrimp the hose.
A kink, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So this sounds like kind of longand complicated, but it actually
takes like, I don't know ifyou're good at it, it takes like
15, 20 seconds, 30 secondsmaybe.
And that's way shorter than.
Trying to feed(Struggling.
Yeah) a like a kitten or a puppythat's like, you gotta feed them
(13:30):
the whole bottle.
And they won't suckle.
Yeah.
Especially if you have a lot ofanimals.
But you don't want to tube feedthem for convenience either.
No.
They need to suckle, they needthat.
But if they're not, then youhave to feed them.
So unfortunately at some point,even if it's easier to tube feed
them, you do need to switch tothe bottle.
Yeah.
So that they can suckle, becausethat's part of their
(13:51):
development.
Right.
Which is what we're doing withPapa.
Another thing is that you haveto make sure that the
temperature of the formula is agood temperature, like around,
let's see, like 99, you know,ish, 99, a hundred ish.
Where it's a, just a tadd bitwarmer than your skin, because
you don't want it to be toocold.
(14:12):
No.
And when it is warm and thekittens are screaming and
they're like, rah, rah.
And then the, the warm milk hitstheir stomach, they close their
eyes and they look so happy.
So content, I brought that up,but man, those kittens can chomp
the catheters like so quickly.
You can go through quite a fewonce they start getting teeth.
(14:33):
Yeah.
And that, and that's one of thedangers that you want them to
start suckling by the time theyhave teeth.
Mm-hmm.
Because the last thing you wantis them swallowing the tube.
Which happened to me once.
Yeah.
And Bryan was like, oh my God.
And like, we turned the kittenupside down and thankfully it
coughed it out.
Right.
The, the kitten unfortunatelydid not make it.
It was a little, a little blackkitten, black and white.
(14:55):
And he seemed like he wasdrowning every time he ate.
And he, you had to hold him upthe whole time and he didn't
make it very long.
Mm-hmm.
And I took him from someone elsewho was struggling with like,
more than that, like more of theletter.
And I took, you know, like oneor two of the sickest ones.
Yeah.
It was like he didn't have astomach or something.
(15:16):
It was like you'd get a littlebit of milk down and he'd, he'd
get this scared look on his faceand he'd spit it up.
Mm-hmm.
And he looked terrified.
And two of Papa's siblings, oneof his sisters, Mary on a Cross
and then his brother, NamelessGhoul those are my problem
children.
Like I was not planning ontaking this litter.
When we took in the mom and thebabies from the shelter, we
(15:41):
never want puppies to be born ina shelter.
Mm-hmm.
We never want puppies to stay ina shelter.
Their immune system's so low.
Mm-hmm.
They're so fragile.
I mean, God loves shelters, butthey're kind of like a Petri
dish, you know?
No matter how much you do, howhard you try, contaminants
happen, right?
And shelters just are not a goodplace for the, for them.
(16:05):
And I'm like, oh, yeah.
You know, it'll be a cakewalkbecause the mom will take care.
I should have shut my mouth.
Mm-hmm.
And then, we have the fosters,you know, weigh them every day
so I can look at their weightsand see that they're gaining.
Puppies and kittens both shouldbe gaining at least 5% a day.
Thanks to our, amazing fosterfamily, Sammy and Trevor, he
(16:29):
created an Excel spreadsheetthat formulates.
So it takes out all thecalculations I have to do.
I used to do them kind of in myhead, so I'd be like, oh, you're
gaining, oh, you're not gaining,you know, like, but there was no
like, science behind it orwhatever.
Mm-hmm.
I would tell Fosters, oh no, wegotta do this with this one, or
whatever.
But now they can visually see itbecause he formulated it so that
(16:54):
when they hit 5%, It shades itgreen automatically, and then if
it's under 5%, it shades it redautomatically.
You can visually just not evenhave to look at the the numbers
and be like, gain, gain, gain,oh shit.
Look at that red one.
You know?
That's gotta be really helpfulfor foster families.
Yeah.
Yeah.
so, they weren't doing thatwell.
(17:15):
They were kind of congested.
I told the Foster to go takethem to the vet and, ironically,
I had to go to the vet afterthey were there and the vet was
like, I'm really worried aboutthis one little puppy.
He's not doing well at all,which was Papa.
So I went home from the vet withsome extra puppies.
(17:36):
Nameless Ghoul at Mary on aCross are the ones who are
basically regurgitating almosteverything that they.
Eat.
And so like Nameless Ghoul he isstarving all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And his suckle is very strong.
And with no teeth, he will grabthat nipple and just hold onto
(17:56):
it when I try to take it away.
But he can't have too much, orlike the milk just flows out of
his nose and out of his mouth.
That's what happened to thekitten.
Yeah.
And Mary, Same and I'll have tosit there and I'll have to pat
them.
But now I have a system it's atiming thing.
Mm-hmm.
And then I have to measure howmuch, but they cannot have more
(18:18):
than an ounce at a time.
And even then it's a littleiffy.
Mm-hmm.
They may regurgitate just alittle bit, but not like copious
amounts.
Do you feed, do you feed themmore often then?
Because they can only do anounce?
Yes.
So, especially nameless becausehe's so hungry all the time.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't envy you because, youhave to get up in the middle of
(18:39):
the night and do this, and thatreally wrecks me.
I know it's not good for youeither, but you are so used to
it that you pretty much do it...
In my sleep.
Of habit.
I literally think that even ifPate doesn't have puppies to
feed in the middle of the night,that she gets up and goes
through the motions of doing it,and then goes back to sleep
(19:03):
because she is so accustomed toit.
On the other hand, I can't dothat.
Yeah.
I do it in my sleep.
I mean, and I talk in my sleeptoo.
No, like seriously.
Once I think Jess called me.
Mm-hmm.
Because a foster came early andmy fosters should know never,
not before nine o'clock, right?
Mm-hmm.
But he showed up early and shecalled me and I know that she
(19:25):
called, I know that words cameoutta my mouth, but I can't
remember the conversation.
Mm-hmm.
I'm hoping it was okay.
It probably involves someexpletives about why they were
calling you so early.
I know.
I never, I look at the, thephone and I'm like, that's like
10 minutes to nine and I'm gonnawait until nine.
(19:47):
Well, especially if I have afeeding at like five or six.
Well, I mean, I used to do thatfor the squirrels, but I think
after doing it during thepandemic, I think it actually
like really screwed up my sleepschedule.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And so then I would wake upevery day at three in the
morning.
Oh God.
Yeah.
Ready to feed squirrels andthere was no squirrels to feed.
(20:07):
Right.
And so I will still say it tookme two years at least to kind of
get back to normal and then, Iwill say that there are still
times where I just wake up and Ican't go back to sleep.
I mean, there could be variousreasons for this, but I noticed
at first when I startedregularly, bottle feeding the
squirrels.
But what kind of formula do youuse for squirrels?
(20:29):
It is, is it kitten or puppy?
I think it's puppy and then itis mixed with, I always forget,
see, this is the thing I onlykeep what is absolutely required
in my mind.
And I have to ask her everytime.
She's like, but you've beendoing this for so long.
I'm like, I know, but I justdon't keep relevant information.
(20:49):
I think it's puppy formula.
Uhhuh.
Yes.
Because she gives us kittenformula.
So it's puppy formula, and thenit's also a zoo type that's for
multiple animals.
And then what's the other one?
There's Zoonotics and FoxValley.
So it's three different kinds ofthings and then whipping cream,
(21:11):
heavy whipping cream.
Okay.
So there's a special, you know,ratio that you do.
Mm-hmm.
And, so for the squirrels, iftheir eyes aren't open, then
they need to be fed every fourhours.
Mm-hmm.
So 7 11, 3, 1.
What's seven 11?
Oh my God.
Every three hours.
Every, no, four hours.
Oh, every 4, 3, 7 11.
(21:33):
3, 7, 11, 3, 7, 11.
Okay.
So all the way around the clock.
Okay.
But if their eyes are open, thenyou can stop with the 11 o'clock
at night and start with theseven o'clock in the morning,
which is what I do.
Okay.
Yeah.
I only take them if their eyesare open.
If their eyes are open, I cannottake them if their eyes are
closed.
And it sucks because sometimesshe'll have 150 babies that
(21:58):
literally like she must stopfeeding the last one and just go
start feeding the other becauseit's gotta take just about that
long.
That's so crazy.
Yeah, I can't, I can't do that.
As much as I love squirrels, Ican't do that.
Mm.
Yeah.
I mean, it's tough for sure.
I was lucky'cause when I gotthese guys in particular, their
(22:18):
eyes were just starting to open,so I was like, oh, okay.
Every two to three hours.
Yeah.
It's painful.
Well, and then the thing is, islike they were a little bit
older, so it's stimulating themto go to the bathroom.
Oh.
Which can, which can take a lotlonger Yeah.
Than just bottle feeding.
That's actually the hardestpart.
Yeah.
(22:39):
And because you wanna make sure,you have to make sure that they
eliminate.
Yeah.
If they don't eliminate, theycan actually die.
Yeah.
They'll explode.
Literally explode.
The squirrels, they needed toofor a while.
I mean, even when their eyes areopen, sometimes you have to help
them(Mm-hmm) at first.
But then they just start goingeverywhere.
Yeah.
And even when you're not tryingto stimulate them, they'll pee
(22:59):
on you in front of Snoop.
Mm-hmm.
So, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That was great.
Yeah.
Pate did get peed on, Right.
Fucking before Snoop.
Yeah.
Right before he came out.
But, She did a good job of, ofdoing like a model pose where
it's like crossing her legs andbending her hips sideways.
So it's like you can't tell inthe picture.
The big old pee stain.
Uhhuh.
(23:19):
Well, and I brought extraclothes and I left them there,
but Christie was rearranging theboxes and she took my clothes
out and so they ended up at homeand I was like, Oh, I need to
put those back because...
Yeah.
I need, need to add.
Yeah, They need to stay there.
Yeah.
I should add like extra clothesin the van, just in case.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Especially...
Yeah, you don't wanna have poopon you when you're trying to
(23:42):
meet like Rob Zombie orsomething, so Yeah.
Please remember...
Rob.
I think I should understand.
I know, I think Piggy wouldunderstand too.
So for different animals youmight have to position them
differently.
What do you do for that?
A lot of people think that whenyou feed a baby, you're gonna
feed it like a human baby ontheir back, and that's actually
(24:02):
one of the worst positions thatyou can put, a puppy or a kitten
in.
You should have them on theirbellies.
Just like when they nurse fromtheir mother, they're on their
belly stretch forward.
You can prop'em up a little bitbecause you know, they're
crawling all over each other andyes, you will see the occasional
puppy nursing upside down, butthe flow of their mother's milk
(24:25):
is different than the flow of abottle.
No matter what flow of thenipple you get slow, medium,
fast.
It is totally different thanmother's milk.
It comes out a lot slower andit's easier for them to suckle
so you don't have to burp.
I mean, if you think about it,you don't have to burp a puppy
(24:47):
who nurses from his mother, butyou have to burp a puppy when
you bottle feed, because they'regulping, they're gasping,
they're getting a lot of air in.
Whereas with a mother, theydon't.
And so it's the same thing whenyou're bottle feeding them you
cannot have them on their back.
They have to be on their bellystretch forward.
(25:09):
I like to, prop'em up on my, onmy leg with their butt facing,
like on my thigh, facing mytorso, I guess.
And, then I will put the bottlein my hand with the palm of my
hand underneath, their chest, sothat their arms, their forearms
(25:30):
are on my palm.
So it's kind of like a 30 degreeangle towards the bottle or
something like that?
Yeah.
Because you're propping them alittle bit.
There's a slight, yeah, there'sa slight elevation.
And I find that's the mosteffective with the puppies.
And then as they get older, themothers actually start standing
as they start weaning.
So as they get older, you'll seethat your elevation gets higher
(25:55):
and higher.
Oh, I didn't know that.
I mean, it makes sense.
Yeah.
But I wouldn't have thoughtabout that, that I just thought
that they got more mobile and sothey would try more things to
get the milk.
Yeah, no.
And...
But no, that makes a lot ofsense.
Yeah.
And then sometimes they'll sitand nurse.
One of the most challengingthings is, the kitten kneading,
right?
So they keep pushing their pawsagainst.
(26:15):
And it's, you know, instinctualthat this is how they, insti
instigate their mother.
Wait, instigate?
No.
No.
Initiate.
Initiate, yeah.
The milk flow.
So it stimulates the mother tocontinue producing milk with
their, you know, kind of likepaddling motion.
Can I just say that I love towatch you do it even though
there's no video and everythingshe just is describing, she's
(26:40):
acting out with her hands.
Maybe one day we'll get a video.
We're too boring for video.
It's just a bunch of us sittingthere.
Oh yeah.
Well, Axel, what's Axel doing?
See, even He's boring.
Yeah.
Axel is kind of boring.
No, he's a great dog, but he'svery lazy.
Oh my gosh.
Lazy.
The lazy.
He's not husky.
No, he's he's misrepresenting.
The laziest husky ever.
(27:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyone wants to donate somewisdom panel?
d n A test.
We'll be happy to to try one onaxle to see if he truly is a
husky.
Yeah.
Maybe he just wears the costume.
Right.
And he's really like a toypoodle or something.
I was gonna say even Papillonshave like more energy than he
does.
But yeah, so the stimulationwhen they try to stimulate Your
(27:25):
hand or against the bottle.
Sometimes they kind of push thebottle away, which can make it a
little bit tricky, especiallywith the ones who don't have
really great suckle.
And then you find they have alittle ADD so when the nipple
goes out of their mouth, thenit's challenging to get them to
suckle again.
So did you know that when youbottle feed- even tube feed- you
(27:50):
have to burp them just likehuman babies?
Why can't babies burp?
I don't know.
When they're nursing from theirmother, you won't hear them
burping.
But when you feed them from abottle, I guess their suckle
just isn't that tight around,you know, like a human nipple
(28:11):
or, or fake nipple or miraclenipple.
And because with the kittens, weuse a syringe and a miracle
nipple, which is like prettysuccessful, more so I find then,
the ones that they make.
Yeah, the ones they make forpuppies and kittens are crap.
And then, oh my God, the miracleN made those, they're very
(28:32):
expensive, but that's the onlything you can use to feed a
squirrel, I tell you.
And then it definitely worksbest for kittens.
Oh yeah.
It totally works best forkittens.
And then, like I said, I preferthe Playtex brand for the
puppies.
I've always had success withthose.
Even when they're really, reallylittle, you can fit that in
their mouth.
Did you just not see me like yousaw me?
(28:54):
No.
No.
I know, but like, I just, I'mjust surprised.
It seems so big.
Wow.
I You didn't have to start witha miracle nipple and then move
up?
No, I don't think I've ever useda miracle nipple.
For a puppy.
No.
Huh?
Yeah, that seems crazy to me.
And that's the thing is like,they're like little freaking, I
don't know, like little vampirethings that just unhinge their,
(29:16):
they're like snakes that unhingetheir jaws and get around that
nipple.
Huh.
I'm trying to think about allthe chihuahua ones, but you know
what, maybe when I have'em, likesuper little, I have to tube
feed them.
What about, I remember Eminemand Rianna, you had to, you had
to feed them, but I don't, I, Idon't remember what kind of
bottle you used or what kind ofnipple.
Playtex.
(29:36):
Mm, I think so.
Yeah.
And they were tiny.
Eminem was tiny.
Oh, and then his name's Pablonow.
Oh.
And he, their family adopted,David Rose.
Yes.
And they named her Rosie.
And Eminem aka Pablo is nowstarting to have seizures.
Aw.
So Rosie, is his seizure dog, soif he has a seizure, she goes
(30:00):
and she cuddles next to him.
So he has a service dog of hisown, which we talked about
service animals.
That's like Sabrina.
Oh yeah, so that's her ESA.
Mm-hmm.
But that's, Eva's third ESA.
Oh.
Unfortunately, her third ESA isa shy girl.
Mm-hmm.
(30:21):
Because her first two ESAs wereoutgoing.
Yeah, Eva's a dog that we havecurrently, she's a husky mix and
she...
Was chained up.
So she's really, really shy.
Mm-hmm.
Very sweet.
Mm-hmm.
But very, very wary of peopleinitially.
Yeah.
She's learning how to be petnow.
(30:42):
Mm-hmm.
And she knows that treats are inthe kitchen.
Yeah.
She likes the...
When you're cooking.
She likes the comforts.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
She doesn't want to go outsideanymore and hang out,(oh my
gosh) in the rain or anythinglike that.
But she was living on the chainoutside.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, but now she's likea primadonna.
Oh my gosh.
She loves her raised bed.
She's like, these cots areamazing.
(31:02):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
She loves it.
How quickly do they forget.
I know, right?
Just slept down the streets.
I know.
Like Matthew, the street dog.
I'm like, go outside.
I don't wanna be outsideanymore.
So I know that, some brands offormula are gonna be better than
others.
I also know that there's goatmilk formula(mm-hmm) that you
like.
Why don't you tell people aboutyour preferences?
(31:23):
I like actually doing acombination.
When it comes to the puppieseven kittens, I'll throw in a
dash of goat milk, but for thepuppies, I make my own formula
using goat milk and the goatmilk, yogurt and egg.
And then I make it 50 50.
I'll buy commercial and, whetherCommercial goat milk yogurt?
No.
(31:44):
Commercial, commercial puppyformula, whether it's, whether
it's Esbilac, or tailspin is agood one.
It's a newer one that I...
Yeah, I've never heard of itbefore.
Yeah.
It's goat.
Okay.
I don't know that they have cow.
I haven't seen if they do, Ihaven't seen cow, but tailspin,
is a new one that I like using,and so just those two is black
(32:07):
and, the tailspin.
And I do it 50 50, like 50% myformula, 50% commercial formula.
And what's your formula?
Goat milk, yogurt and egg.
Yeah.
Like just raw egg.
Yeah, just the yolk.
Oh, that's weird.
Okay.
Protein.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it works.
I get fat ass babies.
(32:28):
One of the reasons why I do thatis because when I make my own
formula, sometimes itconstipates them and it's
because it's so rich.
Mm-hmm.
Or whatever.
On the flip side with thecommercial formula, I see a lot
of...
Diarrhea.
What do you do if they haddiarrhea?
What would you give them?
Well, first I'd do a fecal.
(32:48):
Mm-hmm.
Because sometimes it can beparasites.
We did learn the hard way thatpuppies can have.
Coccidia, even bottle feeders.
One minute they were fine.
The next minute, I lost two andit was pretty fast and brutal.
Yeah.
But had I known then we couldhave treated them, with Albon or
(33:13):
ponazuril or something.
For coccidia in particular.
There's another one, Clostridiumis that the other bacteria or
something that they can have,what's it called?
cryptosporidium.
Cryptosporidium.
That's colostrum.
And Cryptosporidium in one word.
Yeah, cryptosporidium.
But that one's, that's notnormally puppies, right?
(33:34):
Well, no.
I mean, puppies can get it, butit's not something that we see a
lot of.
No, but there was another weirdone for puppies.
What was it?
I mean, for really youngpuppies.
Well, we get like typicalGiardia, um, coccidia was one of
the ones that we learned about,like I said, the hard way.
(33:54):
And then I think you're rightabout the Clostridium.
Yeah, Clostridium is the one I'mpretty sure.
Well, it's like e coli.
Yes.
I'm pretty sure that's what it'scalled.
Yeah.
Clostridium difficile.
Oh, that's a really bad one.
But that's more a people one.
Yeah.
But we had puppies with thatonce.
Yeah.
But it's not that often.
No, no, it's not often.
But I remember it being reallyweird.
(34:16):
Right.
But it wasn't something thatwe've seen and that that was
life threatening.
Like coccidia was lifethreatening.
You can clear it with meds, butagain, with baby babies bottle
feeding.
Once we found out what was goingon, we did save the rest of the
litter, but that was hard.
And that was a big litter.
And then that hit me hardbecause we lost the mother.
(34:38):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
And so we only had the babies'cause the mother died the day
before we were gonna get her.
She had like a heart attack orsomething like that.
She just collapsed and she wasgone and everyone was like, oh
my God.
I felt horrible about that,because, we should have gotten
her sooner.
But I mean, you know, timing issometimes it...
(34:59):
Sometimes we can't help it.
Yeah.
But, that was horrible.
What do you use for kitten milk?
Kitten milk I just do a dash ofgoat milk.
Mm-hmm.
But with what brands?
With K M R, I was gonna saysack.
They, um, KMR is, they isproduced, blah.
(35:20):
It's the same company, Uhhuh,but KMR for kittens and Esbilac
is for puppies.
That's weird that they name themdifferent.
Like Kmr is obviously kittenmilk replacer.
Right.
But what is Esbilac.
Exactly.
I know, right?
Like why isn't it P M R, KMR andpmr?
That would make it easy.
Exactly.
Yeah.
But with the kittens, I'll dothe goat milk'cause goat milk
(35:42):
has a probiotics in it, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Or prebiotics or whatever.
It's good for your stomach,supposedly.
And then I find that it isbetter for them than cow's milk.
So anytime I can get like a goatmilk kind of formula, even
commercial, I'm gonna go withthe goat milk before I go with
the cow milk.
Yeah.
(36:07):
I know the A S P C A has somereally good tutorials online,
for helping people, especiallybottle feeding kittens and
bottle feeding puppies becauseobviously they are trying to
broaden the spectrum of peoplethat are able to take care of
these kinds of animals.
'cause in our organization, whatwe have, like a handful of
people that could do eitherpuppies or kits.
(36:29):
Yeah.
And the biggest thing that youhave to worry about, especially
when you're a beginner, isaspiration pneumonia.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, which, which we're kind ofdealing with right now.
Yeah.
It, it happens so easily though,so easily.
I mean, even as careful as I am,like with the squirrels or
something, like sometimes you'llbe holding the syringe and
they'll just suck really hard.
And it'll suck at this plungerRight.
(36:51):
Outta your hand.
And, and all of a sudden thenthey're like, ah.
Mm-hmm.
And they, they spit up the milkbecause they've sucked down way
too much.
Right.
So I actually have to pull backon the plunger and hold it with
tension.
Mm-hmm.
So that I'm making sure theydon't pull it outta my hand.
Right.
I don't really have a lot ofaspiration pneumonia with the
kittens though, with the miraclenipple.
Correct.
(37:12):
Kittens, it's not as common.
But...
Not with that miracle nipple.
Yeah.
That miracle nipple.
It's a miracle.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, it.
It's, that's why it's calledthat.
Yeah.
But you know, like for thesquirrels too, the smaller the
syringe you use(mm-hmm) then theless likely they can suck down a
lot of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
So it's easier when they getbigger(mm-hmm) to use a bigger
syringe, like three or five.
(37:32):
Mm-hmm.
But there is a chance thatthey'll suck it right outta your
hand.
So I actually like to reuse thesyringes after, washing them and
then they get a little sticky.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then, then they are harderto do that.
Yeah.
And then puppies, like I talkedabout it before, like you really
have to be careful with thespeed of the nipple and really
pay attention to if it's a slowdrip, the medium flow and then
(37:56):
the rapid flow.
Well, and if they do aspirate,then you have to hold them
upside down and kind of pat themon their back.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
So that you can try and get themilk to come back up and(Right)
and for them to sneeze it out orspit it out.
Yeah.
But it's gonna happen to everysingle person that tries to
bottle feed.
But the key is to learn whatdoes it and what prevents it.
(38:18):
Mm-hmm.
And, don't make the same mistaketwice.
Right.
But the A S P C A has somereally good stuff and you know,
it's to encourage people to giveit a try and foster.
Definitely check it out.
I feel like we more often need,bottle feeders for kittens than
for puppies.
Well, it's because you get thatwhole like, burst of kitten
(38:41):
season(mm-hmm) in the summer,the ground starts to thaw.
You know, mamas wanna get theirgroove on who aren't spayed, and
sometimes they get their grooveon multiple times in the summer,
and so that's multiple litters.
And sometimes like these outdoormothers, it's hard out there on
these cats between coyotes,poisons getting shot, getting
(39:07):
hit by cars.
I mean it's dangerous foroutdoor cats, so sometimes we
get a lot of bottle babies.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
'cause they'll find the kittens,but the mom will be gone and,
you know, they don't know howlong the mom's been gone and, or
they'll watch them and know thatshe's been gone for two days, or
they'll find him suddenly in agarbage can or,(mm-hmm)
(39:27):
something like that.
But yeah, they're, you know,it's more often that we find
abandoned kittens without a momthan puppies.
The thing is, puppies don'treally have a season per se, you
know, like a lot of dogs may beindoor or they have different
cycles.
Like dogs will typically go intoheat twice a year, but not
necessarily at the same time.
(39:47):
Mm-hmm.
So it's not like, oh look, it'spuppy season, not the way it is
with kitten season.
And the reason, like I said, thereason why we have kitten season
is because the outdoor cats thatwe see so many kittens from,
nature says, okay, you knowwhat?
You're gonna give birth and theground is frozen.
The babies are gonna freeze, solet's just not.
(40:08):
And so once that ground startsthawing, then Yeah.
So it's...
Their body kicks in.
Yeah.
It's more weather related thanpuppies are.
And the thing is, is that,you've got seasons up here, but
you know, California's alwayshaving kittens.
Well, that's it for bottlefeeding babies.
Pate is the queen of bottlefeeding puppies, and we have
(40:29):
some pretty awesome fosters whoare bottle feeding kitten
queens.
Mm-hmm.
So we just wanna thank them forall their hard work.
So much hard work.
And yeah, Pate doesn't getthanked enough.
So thank you, Pate.
Especially because I can't doit.
So, this, I, I am Jme.
I'm Jme.
(40:50):
This is Pate.
This is our podcast Rescue Shit.
Rock On.
Rescue on.
Hi, I am Jme.
And I'm Pate.
And we are Motley Zoo AnimalRescue.
This is our podcast Rescue shit.
Boop.
Today we're going to talk aboutbottle babies.
They're so damn cute.
They're so damn messy andthey're so damn tiring.
(00:23):
So when I went in the bathroom,okay, the fatty, fatty chunker,
we, he can't even put his legsdown because he is so fat.
They just stick out straightout.
I know.
So, yeah.
Pate has this puppy, the mom isnot being very helpful.
She wouldn't even look at me.
She is petrified.
(00:44):
Yeah.
She's like, just...
She is shut down so hard.
Yeah.
I, I haven't seen that in a longtime.
Mm-hmm.
But, anyway, the most of thebabies are like a handful size,
you know, and this one is likethree or four times the size of
the others and he doesn't lookreal.
(01:04):
He looks like a little, likethis tiny(Fizzgig) head.
Yes.
He is completely round and hislegs can't even like fold over
his body because he's so fat.
I'm not fat shaming him.
It's just funny because he looksridiculous because his body is
(01:25):
so big,(so much big), muchbigger and rounder than any
others to the point where hislegs are barely functional.
Yeah.
But he's the healthiest one.
Yeah, he, I mean, and he'seating on his own now too.
What?
I'm like, dude, just stop.
He's like two weeks old.
He's eating his mom's food.
Wow.
Okay.
Yeah, he is.
(01:47):
He's just like, I gotta eat.
He's for two, eat more.
He really is.
He's like, that bottle's notenough for me.
What is his name?
Do we have a name for him?
Well, I was thinking I wanted tocall him like LS Dunes.
LS Dunes, which is the band thatFrank Iro from My Chemical
Romance is in, as well asAnthony Green from Sison.
(02:09):
Do they want a fat puppy namedafter them?
I don't know.
Frank Iro has two adopted rescuedogs.
Oh.
And he was on the Dodo becausehe and his family rescued
snapping turtle babies orsomething like that.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah, he's a really cool dude.
Well, do we have Showboxconnections?
I keep asking you and you don'tdo anything about it?
(02:30):
Are you kidding me?
I was just gonna tell you thatI'm just sitting around in my
ass like all the time.
I'm not just writing like Grant,I'm not doing anything.
Like, not even grant writing?
No.
Oh my God.
Like, I mean, that's all you do.
I know! That's your job.
I wrote, Jonna and asked her whothe new contact was.
(02:51):
'cause we hadn't seen any showsthere in a while and wondering
if they wanted animals.
So yeah, I thought of you.
L S Dunes.
I am working on it.
Frankie Frank.
When is it though?
I can't remember.
August two.
Oh yeah.
So see we have time.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I don't know what'll happen, soI don't know who works there.
And I just said I miss Glen.
(03:12):
Yes.
Yeah, Glen's our man.
He's, he's the one who kind oflike started it rolling for us.
He really did.
You know(he did) back in the daywhen we were just showing up in
the back.
Yeah.
And the cold.
And the rain.
Yeah.
With a crate of kittens.
He embraced that.
Yes, he did.
And it is because of him that wesaw Snoop.
It's because of him that we sawthe skinny puppy.
(03:34):
Skinny puppy who remembered usand remembered who opened for
them when we were there withkittens.
I know.
And they remember that we hadkittens'cause this time we
didn't have kittens.
We had puppies.
Yeah.
And then Tara, remembered, whatyear it was that we were there
with Snoop.
Yeah.
And I guess because for themit's like they go by years by
(03:55):
who they played with or(mm-hmm)whatever.
And so that's how they, they canremember so precisely because
it.
It's like how they organizetheir lives.
Yeah.
And she was there with Young andthe famous.
Naked and Famous.
The Naked, the Young and theFamous No...
Young and The Restless.
The song is called Young Bloodby the Naked and Famous.
Yeah.
I got confused.
That's funny.
(04:15):
Yeah.
But yeah, so normally you wouldnever bring Bottle Babies to a
show.
But we had both.
We've done that before.
Well, I mean with the kittens.
Yeah, but normally not.
Mm-hmm.
Because it's not like we wantthem all fondled and...
Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Held.
It's not that, but we bring thembecause it's necessary.
Right.
So this time when we had Snoop,we had actually three week old
(04:37):
bottle kittens and three weekold puppy bottle puppies.
So it was kind of interestingbecause there were both.
Right.
Yeah.
You and Jessica had to bringthem with you.
Yeah.
Especially, yeah.
To feed the kittens.
They'll be a little bit moreindependent like kittens you
really bottle feed them onlyuntil they're about four weeks.
Mm-hmm.
(04:57):
And then, and then they're good.
I mean, kittens actually maturefaster in that regard than
puppies.
Yeah.
They're litter box training atthat point.
They, I mean, their dexterity isso much better than the puppies.
I mean, the puppies look likethey're a bunch of drunks.
Yeah.
Running around in Slowmo, tryingto hit each other and then
missing because they've had onetoo many beers that night.
(05:18):
Which are easier, do you think,to bottle feed kittens or
puppies, which are moresuccessful?
I would say for me, for mepersonally, puppies are easier.
I think they are.
They're less, a little lessfragile than kittens.
Kittens are so fragile.
Well, kittens, I tend to tubefeed more often.
Right.
Well,'cause it'll take youhours.
(05:39):
If you don't, yeah.
Tube feeding kittens is so muchquicker.
Mm-hmm.
Especially in the middle of thenight.
Oh yeah.
It's been a long time since I'vebottle fed babies, so I can't
actually remember because I onlykeep things in my head that are
immediately important.
How long do you go betweenfeedings for kittens and
puppies?
Is it the same?
It's very much the same.
With newborns, it's an hour totwo hours.
(06:01):
And then I pretty much do likean hour a week, you know?
Mm-hmm.
So one week is one hour maybe,depending on how thrifty they
are, how strong their suckle is.
I mean, there's all these likedifferent variables that you
have to think about, right?
You gotta think about the flowof the bottle.
(06:21):
I mean the nipple, you know,'cause you got the slow nipples,
you got the medium flow.
You got the fast flow.
The slow flow is also variablebased on the different types of
bottle brands like Playtex is myfavorite.
Which I was surprised that youwere using a human baby bottle
with a human nipple for suchsmall puppies that still worked
(06:44):
for them.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Puppies are awesome that way.
I guess I wouldn't say Isurprised, but.
Surprised because I don't knowthat I've ever seen you feed
such small puppies(Yeah) beforeand I knew you used the Playtex
bottles for bigger puppies, butI didn't know that you could use
it for such small puppies.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
As long as I have a strongsuckle it's good.
(07:04):
Papa Emertis, puppy, Papa as wecall him, or just papa.
He is named after Tobias'sForge.
Tobias Forge his character inGhost.
So Papa Emertis, that's hispersona.
He is our most fragile of thelitter.
He is the one that I had to tubefeed and he just graduated from
(07:27):
tube feeding.
I don't know exactly what hisissue is.
He's literally a quarter thesize of the chubby, chubby,
chubby two by four.
Yeah.
I think he finally hit half apound.
He and his sister have hit halfa pound.
But his sister is more thriftythan he is.
She's never had to be bottlefed.
Mm.
(07:47):
I had to tube feed him'cause hewas lethargic.
He just, Just didn't even care.
Why don't you explain what tubefeeding is?
I bet a lot of people don't knowwhat that is.
So you get a good sized syringe.
A 10 cc syringe works reallywell with these tiny chihuahua
puppy types.
Actually like Papa was so littlethat I first used a, just a
(08:09):
three cc, syringe and thengraduated to a six.
And then when I stopped feedinghim, he was taking, eight ccs.
They don't know what the tube iseither.
So the tube is, it's a nasalgastric type of tube.
You can use it, with humans aswell.
(08:30):
You have to be really carefulwhen you tube feed, right,
because there's two, holes thatthe tube can go into.
And the tube is like, I wannasay like maybe a foot long, 12
inches.
It's like a spaghetti.
It's about the thickness of aspaghetti tube.
It's, there's different...
Well, The ones that you woulduse for the kittens or the
puppies?
At the puppies?
Yeah.
It's the tiny, the tiny ones.
Yeah.
It's the size of a spaghetti.
(08:50):
Mm-hmm.
And it's about a foot long.
And one end has, you know, kindof a flange tube so that it can
fit on the end of the syringe.
Yes.
And then the tip at thespaghetti end has two tiny
little holes.
Yeah.
And when I tube feed, I have touse the formula that's liquid in
a can.
Yeah.
'cause the chunks.
Because if I make formula,there's always like some grit or
(09:13):
something.
And when the tubes are supertiny, like the ones that I have
to use for chihuahua mixedpuppies, then it won't go
through.
No.
It'll clog.
Yeah, it'll clog.
I mean the holes are like thesize of like a pin prick in a
balloon.
They're very, very tiny.
(Super.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.) And, and so explain alittle bit about how you have
to, you know, put it down theirthroat and what you do.
(09:34):
Yeah.
So you have to be very careful.
Like I said, there's two holesthat you can actually slip the
tube in.
You've got your esophagus, andthen you obviously have your...
Windpipe.
Yeah, that one I obviously, andthen I forgot the name of it.
So the esophagus obviously goesdown to your stomach and that's
(09:55):
what you want.
You don't want it to go down thewindpipe, but when you're
putting a tube in, you cannotsee which hole it's going down.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so, um, I used to tube feedKormorants too.
I used to when it had red tide.
Yeah.
I tube fed op possums.
It was easier with Korans'causeyou just go down the side of
their throat.
Right.
With puppies and kittens, I willactually do it diagonally
(10:19):
(mm-hmm) across their mouth(mm-hmm) and so that it goes
down one side because yourwindpipe is in the middle of the
esophagus going down to yourstomach.
So if you just like slip thetube, like right in the middle,
down the back of your throat,you're most likely gonna go into
their lungs.
Right.
And you don't wanna do that.
Mm-hmm.
(10:40):
You have to measure the tubefirst to make sure that it goes
in their stomach.
And the way to measure that isto get the bottom.
You put the tube on the outside,so you're like estimating where
their stomach is, and you putthe end of the spaghetti...
Which underneath, underneath thesternum.
(Mm-hmm) So you can feel theirsternum.
Mm-hmm.
And then underneath that, that'skind of where their stomach is.
So you put the bottom of thetube there and then you kind of
(11:02):
go up and then do a little curvewhere their throat is, and then
you mark the outside of it witha Sharpie.
Mm-hmm.
So you don't go past that line.
Yeah.
So that you know exactly themeasurement of how far down it
goes because you don't want itto obviously go too far but you
don't want it to be too shorteither, because again, you've
(11:23):
got risk of aspiration.
Aspiration is when somethinggoes down your windpipe(mm-hmm)
that is not air.
When it's milk, it can givethem, aspiration pneumonia.
(Mm-hmm) And a lot of animalscan die from that.
Yeah.
And when I had the Tube feedGroot which was our cleft palate
puppy, he was really bad aboutaspiration.
(11:44):
We had some ER visits with him,but now I'm an expert.
No, I'm joking.
So once you have the sharpiemark on the outside of the tube,
you feed it down their throat.
And it helps sometimes when theyswallow.
Mm-hmm.
And then it goes to the outsidethe corner of their mouth.
You see where the mark is andthen, then you kind of close the
(12:05):
tube.
Well, I do, I kind of closetheir mouth with the tube with
my thumb.
And then you want to pull backon the syringe a little bit and
if the syringe just pulls backreally easily, you are in their
lungs.
And then you better take thattube out.
Mm-hmm.
But, If it's in their stomach,there's a little bit of suction.
(12:27):
So if you pull it back a little,it'll pop back in the syringe.
Yes.
And the syringe goes back intoplace.
Yes.
And then, you just slowly andgradually, I like to do like a
little tap, tap with my thumb,and then it'll be like one
little hash mark on the syringeas I tap it down(mm, mm-hmm)
(12:48):
with them.
And then when you remove it, youactually want to fold the tube
that's on the outside of theirmouth.
You wanna close it, like pinchit.
Mm-hmm.
When you take it out.
So it doesn't drip more downtheir throat.
Down the windpipe Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
When you're like pulling it outso that it creates kinda like
(13:08):
the hose, you know, when youcrimp the hose.
A kink, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So this sounds like kind of longand complicated, but it actually
takes like, I don't know ifyou're good at it, it takes like
15, 20 seconds, 30 secondsmaybe.
And that's way shorter than.
Trying to feed(Struggling.
Yeah) a like a kitten or a puppythat's like, you gotta feed them
(13:30):
the whole bottle.
And they won't suckle.
Yeah.
Especially if you have a lot ofanimals.
But you don't want to tube feedthem for convenience either.
No.
They need to suckle, they needthat.
But if they're not, then youhave to feed them.
So unfortunately at some point,even if it's easier to tube feed
them, you do need to switch tothe bottle.
Yeah.
So that they can suckle, becausethat's part of their
(13:51):
development.
Right.
Which is what we're doing withPapa.
Another thing is that you haveto make sure that the
temperature of the formula is agood temperature, like around,
let's see, like 99, you know,ish, 99, a hundred ish.
Where it's a, just a tadd bitwarmer than your skin, because
you don't want it to be toocold.
(14:12):
No.
And when it is warm and thekittens are screaming and
they're like, rah, rah.
And then the, the warm milk hitstheir stomach, they close their
eyes and they look so happy.
So content, I brought that up,but man, those kittens can chomp
the catheters like so quickly.
You can go through quite a fewonce they start getting teeth.
(14:33):
Yeah.
And that, and that's one of thedangers that you want them to
start suckling by the time theyhave teeth.
Mm-hmm.
Because the last thing you wantis them swallowing the tube.
Which happened to me once.
Yeah.
And Bryan was like, oh my God.
And like, we turned the kittenupside down and thankfully it
coughed it out.
Right.
The, the kitten unfortunatelydid not make it.
It was a little, a little blackkitten, black and white.
(14:55):
And he seemed like he wasdrowning every time he ate.
And he, you had to hold him upthe whole time and he didn't
make it very long.
Mm-hmm.
And I took him from someone elsewho was struggling with like,
more than that, like more of theletter.
And I took, you know, like oneor two of the sickest ones.
Yeah.
It was like he didn't have astomach or something.
(15:16):
It was like you'd get a littlebit of milk down and he'd, he'd
get this scared look on his faceand he'd spit it up.
Mm-hmm.
And he looked terrified.
And two of Papa's siblings, oneof his sisters, Mary on a Cross
and then his brother, NamelessGhoul those are my problem
children.
Like I was not planning ontaking this litter.
When we took in the mom and thebabies from the shelter, we
(15:41):
never want puppies to be born ina shelter.
Mm-hmm.
We never want puppies to stay ina shelter.
Their immune system's so low.
Mm-hmm.
They're so fragile.
I mean, God loves shelters, butthey're kind of like a Petri
dish, you know?
No matter how much you do, howhard you try, contaminants
happen, right?
And shelters just are not a goodplace for the, for them.
(16:05):
And I'm like, oh, yeah.
You know, it'll be a cakewalkbecause the mom will take care.
I should have shut my mouth.
Mm-hmm.
And then, we have the fosters,you know, weigh them every day
so I can look at their weightsand see that they're gaining.
Puppies and kittens both shouldbe gaining at least 5% a day.
Thanks to our, amazing fosterfamily, Sammy and Trevor, he
(16:29):
created an Excel spreadsheetthat formulates.
So it takes out all thecalculations I have to do.
I used to do them kind of in myhead, so I'd be like, oh, you're
gaining, oh, you're not gaining,you know, like, but there was no
like, science behind it orwhatever.
Mm-hmm.
I would tell Fosters, oh no, wegotta do this with this one, or
whatever.
But now they can visually see itbecause he formulated it so that
(16:54):
when they hit 5%, It shades itgreen automatically, and then if
it's under 5%, it shades it redautomatically.
You can visually just not evenhave to look at the the numbers
and be like, gain, gain, gain,oh shit.
Look at that red one.
You know?
That's gotta be really helpfulfor foster families.
Yeah.
Yeah.
so, they weren't doing thatwell.
(17:15):
They were kind of congested.
I told the Foster to go takethem to the vet and, ironically,
I had to go to the vet afterthey were there and the vet was
like, I'm really worried aboutthis one little puppy.
He's not doing well at all,which was Papa.
So I went home from the vet withsome extra puppies.
(17:36):
Nameless Ghoul at Mary on aCross are the ones who are
basically regurgitating almosteverything that they.
Eat.
And so like Nameless Ghoul he isstarving all the time.
Mm-hmm.
And his suckle is very strong.
And with no teeth, he will grabthat nipple and just hold onto
(17:56):
it when I try to take it away.
But he can't have too much, orlike the milk just flows out of
his nose and out of his mouth.
That's what happened to thekitten.
Yeah.
And Mary, Same and I'll have tosit there and I'll have to pat
them.
But now I have a system it's atiming thing.
Mm-hmm.
And then I have to measure howmuch, but they cannot have more
(18:18):
than an ounce at a time.
And even then it's a littleiffy.
Mm-hmm.
They may regurgitate just alittle bit, but not like copious
amounts.
Do you feed, do you feed themmore often then?
Because they can only do anounce?
Yes.
So, especially nameless becausehe's so hungry all the time.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't envy you because, youhave to get up in the middle of
(18:39):
the night and do this, and thatreally wrecks me.
I know it's not good for youeither, but you are so used to
it that you pretty much do it...
In my sleep.
Of habit.
I literally think that even ifPate doesn't have puppies to
feed in the middle of the night,that she gets up and goes
through the motions of doing it,and then goes back to sleep
(19:03):
because she is so accustomed toit.
On the other hand, I can't dothat.
Yeah.
I do it in my sleep.
I mean, and I talk in my sleeptoo.
No, like seriously.
Once I think Jess called me.
Mm-hmm.
Because a foster came early andmy fosters should know never,
not before nine o'clock, right?
Mm-hmm.
But he showed up early and shecalled me and I know that she
(19:25):
called, I know that words cameoutta my mouth, but I can't
remember the conversation.
Mm-hmm.
I'm hoping it was okay.
It probably involves someexpletives about why they were
calling you so early.
I know.
I never, I look at the, thephone and I'm like, that's like
10 minutes to nine and I'm gonnawait until nine.
(19:47):
Well, especially if I have afeeding at like five or six.
Well, I mean, I used to do thatfor the squirrels, but I think
after doing it during thepandemic, I think it actually
like really screwed up my sleepschedule.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And so then I would wake upevery day at three in the
morning.
Oh God.
Yeah.
Ready to feed squirrels andthere was no squirrels to feed.
(20:07):
Right.
And so I will still say it tookme two years at least to kind of
get back to normal and then, Iwill say that there are still
times where I just wake up and Ican't go back to sleep.
I mean, there could be variousreasons for this, but I noticed
at first when I startedregularly, bottle feeding the
squirrels.
But what kind of formula do youuse for squirrels?
(20:29):
It is, is it kitten or puppy?
I think it's puppy and then itis mixed with, I always forget,
see, this is the thing I onlykeep what is absolutely required
in my mind.
And I have to ask her everytime.
She's like, but you've beendoing this for so long.
I'm like, I know, but I justdon't keep relevant information.
(20:49):
I think it's puppy formula.
Uhhuh.
Yes.
Because she gives us kittenformula.
So it's puppy formula, and thenit's also a zoo type that's for
multiple animals.
And then what's the other one?
There's Zoonotics and FoxValley.
So it's three different kinds ofthings and then whipping cream,
(21:11):
heavy whipping cream.
Okay.
So there's a special, you know,ratio that you do.
Mm-hmm.
And, so for the squirrels, iftheir eyes aren't open, then
they need to be fed every fourhours.
Mm-hmm.
So 7 11, 3, 1.
What's seven 11?
Oh my God.
Every three hours.
Every, no, four hours.
Oh, every 4, 3, 7 11.
(21:33):
3, 7, 11, 3, 7, 11.
Okay.
So all the way around the clock.
Okay.
But if their eyes are open, thenyou can stop with the 11 o'clock
at night and start with theseven o'clock in the morning,
which is what I do.
Okay.
Yeah.
I only take them if their eyesare open.
If their eyes are open, I cannottake them if their eyes are
closed.
And it sucks because sometimesshe'll have 150 babies that
(21:58):
literally like she must stopfeeding the last one and just go
start feeding the other becauseit's gotta take just about that
long.
That's so crazy.
Yeah, I can't, I can't do that.
As much as I love squirrels, Ican't do that.
Mm.
Yeah.
I mean, it's tough for sure.
I was lucky'cause when I gotthese guys in particular, their
(22:18):
eyes were just starting to open,so I was like, oh, okay.
Every two to three hours.
Yeah.
It's painful.
Well, and then the thing is, islike they were a little bit
older, so it's stimulating themto go to the bathroom.
Oh.
Which can, which can take a lotlonger Yeah.
Than just bottle feeding.
That's actually the hardestpart.
Yeah.
(22:39):
And because you wanna make sure,you have to make sure that they
eliminate.
Yeah.
If they don't eliminate, theycan actually die.
Yeah.
They'll explode.
Literally explode.
The squirrels, they needed toofor a while.
I mean, even when their eyes areopen, sometimes you have to help
them(Mm-hmm) at first.
But then they just start goingeverywhere.
Yeah.
And even when you're not tryingto stimulate them, they'll pee
(22:59):
on you in front of Snoop.
Mm-hmm.
So, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That was great.
Yeah.
Pate did get peed on, Right.
Fucking before Snoop.
Yeah.
Right before he came out.
But, She did a good job of, ofdoing like a model pose where
it's like crossing her legs andbending her hips sideways.
So it's like you can't tell inthe picture.
The big old pee stain.
Uhhuh.
(23:19):
Well, and I brought extraclothes and I left them there,
but Christie was rearranging theboxes and she took my clothes
out and so they ended up at homeand I was like, Oh, I need to
put those back because...
Yeah.
I need, need to add.
Yeah, They need to stay there.
Yeah.
I should add like extra clothesin the van, just in case.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Especially...
Yeah, you don't wanna have poopon you when you're trying to
(23:42):
meet like Rob Zombie orsomething, so Yeah.
Please remember...
Rob.
I think I should understand.
I know, I think Piggy wouldunderstand too.
So for different animals youmight have to position them
differently.
What do you do for that?
A lot of people think that whenyou feed a baby, you're gonna
feed it like a human baby ontheir back, and that's actually
(24:02):
one of the worst positions thatyou can put, a puppy or a kitten
in.
You should have them on theirbellies.
Just like when they nurse fromtheir mother, they're on their
belly stretch forward.
You can prop'em up a little bitbecause you know, they're
crawling all over each other andyes, you will see the occasional
puppy nursing upside down, butthe flow of their mother's milk
(24:25):
is different than the flow of abottle.
No matter what flow of thenipple you get slow, medium,
fast.
It is totally different thanmother's milk.
It comes out a lot slower andit's easier for them to suckle
so you don't have to burp.
I mean, if you think about it,you don't have to burp a puppy
(24:47):
who nurses from his mother, butyou have to burp a puppy when
you bottle feed, because they'regulping, they're gasping,
they're getting a lot of air in.
Whereas with a mother, theydon't.
And so it's the same thing whenyou're bottle feeding them you
cannot have them on their back.
They have to be on their bellystretch forward.
(25:09):
I like to, prop'em up on my, onmy leg with their butt facing,
like on my thigh, facing mytorso, I guess.
And, then I will put the bottlein my hand with the palm of my
hand underneath, their chest, sothat their arms, their forearms
(25:30):
are on my palm.
So it's kind of like a 30 degreeangle towards the bottle or
something like that?
Yeah.
Because you're propping them alittle bit.
There's a slight, yeah, there'sa slight elevation.
And I find that's the mosteffective with the puppies.
And then as they get older, themothers actually start standing
as they start weaning.
So as they get older, you'll seethat your elevation gets higher
(25:55):
and higher.
Oh, I didn't know that.
I mean, it makes sense.
Yeah.
But I wouldn't have thoughtabout that, that I just thought
that they got more mobile and sothey would try more things to
get the milk.
Yeah, no.
And...
But no, that makes a lot ofsense.
Yeah.
And then sometimes they'll sitand nurse.
One of the most challengingthings is, the kitten kneading,
right?
So they keep pushing their pawsagainst.
(26:15):
And it's, you know, instinctualthat this is how they, insti
instigate their mother.
Wait, instigate?
No.
No.
Initiate.
Initiate, yeah.
The milk flow.
So it stimulates the mother tocontinue producing milk with
their, you know, kind of likepaddling motion.
Can I just say that I love towatch you do it even though
there's no video and everythingshe just is describing, she's
(26:40):
acting out with her hands.
Maybe one day we'll get a video.
We're too boring for video.
It's just a bunch of us sittingthere.
Oh yeah.
Well, Axel, what's Axel doing?
See, even He's boring.
Yeah.
Axel is kind of boring.
No, he's a great dog, but he'svery lazy.
Oh my gosh.
Lazy.
The lazy.
He's not husky.
No, he's he's misrepresenting.
The laziest husky ever.
(27:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyone wants to donate somewisdom panel?
d n A test.
We'll be happy to to try one onaxle to see if he truly is a
husky.
Yeah.
Maybe he just wears the costume.
Right.
And he's really like a toypoodle or something.
I was gonna say even Papillonshave like more energy than he
does.
But yeah, so the stimulationwhen they try to stimulate Your
(27:25):
hand or against the bottle.
Sometimes they kind of push thebottle away, which can make it a
little bit tricky, especiallywith the ones who don't have
really great suckle.
And then you find they have alittle ADD so when the nipple
goes out of their mouth, thenit's challenging to get them to
suckle again.
So did you know that when youbottle feed- even tube feed- you
(27:50):
have to burp them just likehuman babies?
Why can't babies burp?
I don't know.
When they're nursing from theirmother, you won't hear them
burping.
But when you feed them from abottle, I guess their suckle
just isn't that tight around,you know, like a human nipple
(28:11):
or, or fake nipple or miraclenipple.
And because with the kittens, weuse a syringe and a miracle
nipple, which is like prettysuccessful, more so I find then,
the ones that they make.
Yeah, the ones they make forpuppies and kittens are crap.
And then, oh my God, the miracleN made those, they're very
(28:32):
expensive, but that's the onlything you can use to feed a
squirrel, I tell you.
And then it definitely worksbest for kittens.
Oh yeah.
It totally works best forkittens.
And then, like I said, I preferthe Playtex brand for the
puppies.
I've always had success withthose.
Even when they're really, reallylittle, you can fit that in
their mouth.
Did you just not see me like yousaw me?
(28:54):
No.
No.
I know, but like, I just, I'mjust surprised.
It seems so big.
Wow.
I You didn't have to start witha miracle nipple and then move
up?
No, I don't think I've ever useda miracle nipple.
For a puppy.
No.
Huh?
Yeah, that seems crazy to me.
And that's the thing is like,they're like little freaking, I
don't know, like little vampirethings that just unhinge their,
(29:16):
they're like snakes that unhingetheir jaws and get around that
nipple.
Huh.
I'm trying to think about allthe chihuahua ones, but you know
what, maybe when I have'em, likesuper little, I have to tube
feed them.
What about, I remember Eminemand Rianna, you had to, you had
to feed them, but I don't, I, Idon't remember what kind of
bottle you used or what kind ofnipple.
Playtex.
(29:36):
Mm, I think so.
Yeah.
And they were tiny.
Eminem was tiny.
Oh, and then his name's Pablonow.
Oh.
And he, their family adopted,David Rose.
Yes.
And they named her Rosie.
And Eminem aka Pablo is nowstarting to have seizures.
Aw.
So Rosie, is his seizure dog, soif he has a seizure, she goes
(30:00):
and she cuddles next to him.
So he has a service dog of hisown, which we talked about
service animals.
That's like Sabrina.
Oh yeah, so that's her ESA.
Mm-hmm.
But that's, Eva's third ESA.
Oh.
Unfortunately, her third ESA isa shy girl.
Mm-hmm.
(30:21):
Because her first two ESAs wereoutgoing.
Yeah, Eva's a dog that we havecurrently, she's a husky mix and
she...
Was chained up.
So she's really, really shy.
Mm-hmm.
Very sweet.
Mm-hmm.
But very, very wary of peopleinitially.
Yeah.
She's learning how to be petnow.
(30:42):
Mm-hmm.
And she knows that treats are inthe kitchen.
Yeah.
She likes the...
When you're cooking.
She likes the comforts.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
She doesn't want to go outsideanymore and hang out,(oh my
gosh) in the rain or anythinglike that.
But she was living on the chainoutside.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, but now she's likea primadonna.
Oh my gosh.
She loves her raised bed.
She's like, these cots areamazing.
(31:02):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
She loves it.
How quickly do they forget.
I know, right?
Just slept down the streets.
I know.
Like Matthew, the street dog.
I'm like, go outside.
I don't wanna be outsideanymore.
So I know that, some brands offormula are gonna be better than
others.
I also know that there's goatmilk formula(mm-hmm) that you
like.
Why don't you tell people aboutyour preferences?
(31:23):
I like actually doing acombination.
When it comes to the puppieseven kittens, I'll throw in a
dash of goat milk, but for thepuppies, I make my own formula
using goat milk and the goatmilk, yogurt and egg.
And then I make it 50 50.
I'll buy commercial and, whetherCommercial goat milk yogurt?
No.
(31:44):
Commercial, commercial puppyformula, whether it's, whether
it's Esbilac, or tailspin is agood one.
It's a newer one that I...
Yeah, I've never heard of itbefore.
Yeah.
It's goat.
Okay.
I don't know that they have cow.
I haven't seen if they do, Ihaven't seen cow, but tailspin,
is a new one that I like using,and so just those two is black
(32:07):
and, the tailspin.
And I do it 50 50, like 50% myformula, 50% commercial formula.
And what's your formula?
Goat milk, yogurt and egg.
Yeah.
Like just raw egg.
Yeah, just the yolk.
Oh, that's weird.
Okay.
Protein.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it works.
I get fat ass babies.
(32:28):
One of the reasons why I do thatis because when I make my own
formula, sometimes itconstipates them and it's
because it's so rich.
Mm-hmm.
Or whatever.
On the flip side with thecommercial formula, I see a lot
of...
Diarrhea.
What do you do if they haddiarrhea?
What would you give them?
Well, first I'd do a fecal.
(32:48):
Mm-hmm.
Because sometimes it can beparasites.
We did learn the hard way thatpuppies can have.
Coccidia, even bottle feeders.
One minute they were fine.
The next minute, I lost two andit was pretty fast and brutal.
Yeah.
But had I known then we couldhave treated them, with Albon or
(33:13):
ponazuril or something.
For coccidia in particular.
There's another one, Clostridiumis that the other bacteria or
something that they can have,what's it called?
cryptosporidium.
Cryptosporidium.
That's colostrum.
And Cryptosporidium in one word.
Yeah, cryptosporidium.
But that one's, that's notnormally puppies, right?
(33:34):
Well, no.
I mean, puppies can get it, butit's not something that we see a
lot of.
No, but there was another weirdone for puppies.
What was it?
I mean, for really youngpuppies.
Well, we get like typicalGiardia, um, coccidia was one of
the ones that we learned about,like I said, the hard way.
(33:54):
And then I think you're rightabout the Clostridium.
Yeah, Clostridium is the one I'mpretty sure.
Well, it's like e coli.
Yes.
I'm pretty sure that's what it'scalled.
Yeah.
Clostridium difficile.
Oh, that's a really bad one.
But that's more a people one.
Yeah.
But we had puppies with thatonce.
Yeah.
But it's not that often.
No, no, it's not often.
But I remember it being reallyweird.
(34:16):
Right.
But it wasn't something thatwe've seen and that that was
life threatening.
Like coccidia was lifethreatening.
You can clear it with meds, butagain, with baby babies bottle
feeding.
Once we found out what was goingon, we did save the rest of the
litter, but that was hard.
And that was a big litter.
And then that hit me hardbecause we lost the mother.
(34:38):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
And so we only had the babies'cause the mother died the day
before we were gonna get her.
She had like a heart attack orsomething like that.
She just collapsed and she wasgone and everyone was like, oh
my God.
I felt horrible about that,because, we should have gotten
her sooner.
But I mean, you know, timing issometimes it...
(34:59):
Sometimes we can't help it.
Yeah.
But, that was horrible.
What do you use for kitten milk?
Kitten milk I just do a dash ofgoat milk.
Mm-hmm.
But with what brands?
With K M R, I was gonna saysack.
They, um, KMR is, they isproduced, blah.
(35:20):
It's the same company, Uhhuh,but KMR for kittens and Esbilac
is for puppies.
That's weird that they name themdifferent.
Like Kmr is obviously kittenmilk replacer.
Right.
But what is Esbilac.
Exactly.
I know, right?
Like why isn't it P M R, KMR andpmr?
That would make it easy.
Exactly.
Yeah.
But with the kittens, I'll dothe goat milk'cause goat milk
(35:42):
has a probiotics in it, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Or prebiotics or whatever.
It's good for your stomach,supposedly.
And then I find that it isbetter for them than cow's milk.
So anytime I can get like a goatmilk kind of formula, even
commercial, I'm gonna go withthe goat milk before I go with
the cow milk.
Yeah.
(36:07):
I know the A S P C A has somereally good tutorials online,
for helping people, especiallybottle feeding kittens and
bottle feeding puppies becauseobviously they are trying to
broaden the spectrum of peoplethat are able to take care of
these kinds of animals.
'cause in our organization, whatwe have, like a handful of
people that could do eitherpuppies or kits.
(36:29):
Yeah.
And the biggest thing that youhave to worry about, especially
when you're a beginner, isaspiration pneumonia.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, which, which we're kind ofdealing with right now.
Yeah.
It, it happens so easily though,so easily.
I mean, even as careful as I am,like with the squirrels or
something, like sometimes you'llbe holding the syringe and
they'll just suck really hard.
And it'll suck at this plungerRight.
(36:51):
Outta your hand.
And, and all of a sudden thenthey're like, ah.
Mm-hmm.
And they, they spit up the milkbecause they've sucked down way
too much.
Right.
So I actually have to pull backon the plunger and hold it with
tension.
Mm-hmm.
So that I'm making sure theydon't pull it outta my hand.
Right.
I don't really have a lot ofaspiration pneumonia with the
kittens though, with the miraclenipple.
Correct.
(37:12):
Kittens, it's not as common.
But...
Not with that miracle nipple.
Yeah.
That miracle nipple.
It's a miracle.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, it.
It's, that's why it's calledthat.
Yeah.
But you know, like for thesquirrels too, the smaller the
syringe you use(mm-hmm) then theless likely they can suck down a
lot of stuff.
Mm-hmm.
So it's easier when they getbigger(mm-hmm) to use a bigger
syringe, like three or five.
(37:32):
Mm-hmm.
But there is a chance thatthey'll suck it right outta your
hand.
So I actually like to reuse thesyringes after, washing them and
then they get a little sticky.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then, then they are harderto do that.
Yeah.
And then puppies, like I talkedabout it before, like you really
have to be careful with thespeed of the nipple and really
pay attention to if it's a slowdrip, the medium flow and then
(37:56):
the rapid flow.
Well, and if they do aspirate,then you have to hold them
upside down and kind of pat themon their back.
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
So that you can try and get themilk to come back up and(Right)
and for them to sneeze it out orspit it out.
Yeah.
But it's gonna happen to everysingle person that tries to
bottle feed.
But the key is to learn whatdoes it and what prevents it.
(38:18):
Mm-hmm.
And, don't make the same mistaketwice.
Right.
But the A S P C A has somereally good stuff and you know,
it's to encourage people to giveit a try and foster.
Definitely check it out.
I feel like we more often need,bottle feeders for kittens than
for puppies.
Well, it's because you get thatwhole like, burst of kitten
(38:41):
season(mm-hmm) in the summer,the ground starts to thaw.
You know, mamas wanna get theirgroove on who aren't spayed, and
sometimes they get their grooveon multiple times in the summer,
and so that's multiple litters.
And sometimes like these outdoormothers, it's hard out there on
these cats between coyotes,poisons getting shot, getting
(39:07):
hit by cars.
I mean it's dangerous foroutdoor cats, so sometimes we
get a lot of bottle babies.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
'cause they'll find the kittens,but the mom will be gone and,
you know, they don't know howlong the mom's been gone and, or
they'll watch them and know thatshe's been gone for two days, or
they'll find him suddenly in agarbage can or,(mm-hmm)
(39:27):
something like that.
But yeah, they're, you know,it's more often that we find
abandoned kittens without a momthan puppies.
The thing is, puppies don'treally have a season per se, you
know, like a lot of dogs may beindoor or they have different
cycles.
Like dogs will typically go intoheat twice a year, but not
necessarily at the same time.
(39:47):
Mm-hmm.
So it's not like, oh look, it'spuppy season, not the way it is
with kitten season.
And the reason, like I said, thereason why we have kitten season
is because the outdoor cats thatwe see so many kittens from,
nature says, okay, you knowwhat?
You're gonna give birth and theground is frozen.
The babies are gonna freeze, solet's just not.
(40:08):
And so once that ground startsthawing, then Yeah.
So it's...
Their body kicks in.
Yeah.
It's more weather related thanpuppies are.
And the thing is, is that,you've got seasons up here, but
you know, California's alwayshaving kittens.
Well, that's it for bottlefeeding babies.
Pate is the queen of bottlefeeding puppies, and we have
(40:29):
some pretty awesome fosters whoare bottle feeding kitten
queens.
Mm-hmm.
So we just wanna thank them forall their hard work.
So much hard work.
And yeah, Pate doesn't getthanked enough.
So thank you, Pate.
Especially because I can't doit.
So, this, I, I am Jme.
I'm Jme.
(40:50):
This is Pate.
This is our podcast Rescue Shit.
Rock On.
Rescue on.
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