E19- Vaccines, testing and treatments for dogs & cats

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In this episode we talk about the vaccines and the frequencies we do them, and why this is the case- as well as other testing and treatments we do to prevent and treat fleas, heartworm and other "worms" typically seen, especially in puppies.

One thing we did not mention is that when we speak of "coronavirus" in our dogs, it is well before COVID19 and is NOT AT ALL RELATED. Just like "the common cold" is a coronavirus, so there is one for dogs too- but it's not COVID19.

Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!

Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Hi, I am Jme.
And I'm Pate.
And we are Motley Zoo AnimalRescue.
This is our podcast, RescueShit.
Woo hoo.
So today we'll be talking aboutvaccines vaccine protocols for
your animals and the policiesand procedures that we do for

(00:23):
our, our animals, which may bedifferent.
Mm-hmm.
But we go with what's the mostcurrent and available
information.
Mm-hmm.
And we are willing to adaptbased on that information.
Right.
And, we work with our vet, soit's not like we.
Make stuff up or like our waysbetter.

(00:44):
Every vet is different.
They don't come from just onevet school and there's always
new information coming out.
Well, there are also differentages too.
Different ages of vets andpeople of different ages may
vary in whether or not they'reopen to new ideas.
Let's start at the beginning.
We are gonna do our felinefriends a favor and we're gonna

(01:05):
start with cat vaccines.
So one I think is important.
It's not really a vaccine, butit's a test that we do.
Yep.
And why don't you explain aboutthat.
It's an F E L V F I V SNAP test.
But it's fairly quick and youjust draw some blood and you mix
the blood in the solution, youdrop it on this little, thing

(01:28):
like a birth control.
So it's like a covid test.
Okay.
Now I can say covid test.
Mm-hmm.
But before I know it used to beYeah, yeah.
Like pee on the stick.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Except you didn't, but yeah,exactly.
Like kinda like the covid whereyou.
Drop the solution and then it'lltell you, based on whatever the
coloration is, if they'repositive for F E L V, which is
feline leukemia, which is highlycontagious.

(01:51):
And that usually deadly.
Yeah, but I mean, the thing is,is that you, they can still
live, a good life.
Mm-hmm.
Just not typically as long as.
Someone who doesn't have F E L Vand then you have to be careful
'cause you don't want totransmit, that disease to
others.
And then the other snap thatthey do is, FIV, which is

(02:11):
basically, you know, kitten cataids, right?
so it's an autoimmune, diseaseand it is contagious, but you
can have an FIV cat living withhealthy cats, and I know that
some shelters don't reallypromote that and I just can
speak from experience because Ihad an FIV cat.
He, was a Siamese looking thicklittle Siamese guy, round face,

(02:35):
super cute outside in thepouring rain.
I took him in and he was like,scabby, he had diarrhea.
And I'm like, Ugh, man.
So when I took him to the vet,we did the snap test and he had
F I V.
And he was a sickly dude wholike, snot rockets all the time
when he sneezed.
But he was happy.
For as long as, we had him, wedidn't have him that long

(02:56):
because, you know, it is anautoimmune disease and he did
get attacked by other bacteria.
Mm-hmm.
So anyway, he lived with threeof my other cats, and As long as
there's no fighting or biting orbreeding going on.
No sex.
Yeah.
Then yeah, FIV cats can live,but it's if there's blood

(03:18):
transmission Yep.
In a fight.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and in contrast, F E L Vis very contagious.
You can't share a water bowl,you can't share the same food
bowl.
Yeah.
That can be a transmitter of, FE L V.
Well, and it's hard for us if wehave a cat with a FELV.
Where are we gonna put it?
Because most of our fosters haveYeah.

(03:38):
Cats.
So it is a really, reallydifficult one for us, which is
why we like to get cats thathave already been snapped by the
shelter so that all of that isdone before we even meet the
cats.
Right.
But a lot of the cats aren't,not all shelters will snap test
because, Well, it's expensive.
It's additional, it's additionalcost.

(03:59):
But we will definitely, do that.
All of our kittens who aremotherless will get F E L V and
F I V tested.
They'll get a snap test, right?
Mm-hmm.
Now, some of the snap testsactually test for heartworm.
Oh.
Yeah, so it's a three-way,but...
Which heartworm isn't verycommon in cats.
It's more common in dogs.
Exactly.

(04:19):
But it's still there.
Mm-hmm.
Because, you know, cats canstill get heartworm.
But when there is a mom, then wetest the mom.
The mother.
Yeah.
And if the mom is negative, thenthe babies are negative.
Because we can test the motherand F E L V F I V is gonna be
transmitted in utero.
So if she's negative, thesebabies are going to be negative
as well.

(04:39):
And that's worked for us.
And like I said, not allshelters will snap test'cause of
their budget, but we do that sothat we don't, have any,
surprises for the adopters.
Well, and here's something thatwe used to do vaccines for F E L

(04:59):
V.
Yeah, but then we realized thatif the animal went missing, came
to a shelter and was tested, itwould test positive for the F E
L V virus because of theantibodies from the vaccine,
which would mean that it wouldbe a death sentence potentially

(05:20):
for a cat who we knew was safeand vaccinated, but they didn't
know that.
So we actually stopped doingthat one because, it seemed like
it was more of a risk more sothan it would be a benefit.
But if you have a cat that goesoutside and interacts with other

(05:43):
cats then you maybe should do FE L V vaccine because your cat
is interacting with other cats,right?
And you don't know that it'sgonna do that, but if it went
stray, if it went missing, thenit could end up at the shelter
and be euthanized for havingantibodies.
I think they're trying to,Update these snap tests so that

(06:03):
it won't show like avaccination...
Level.
Yeah.
So with our kittens, we start atsix weeks.
I know like some shelters, theywill vaccinate every two weeks.
Our vaccination protocol isthree to four weeks in between
and kittens starting at sixweeks.
We vaccinate our kittens with FV R C P.

(06:25):
So basically the F V R part ofthe vaccination name is for
feline viral rhino tracheitis.
That's, you know, highlycontagious and sometimes life
threatening, especially babies,they get so congested.
And they can pass from this'cause their bodies are just so
weak.
And then another one is thefeline calici virus.

(06:46):
And that's what the C standsfor.
And calici virus is very similarto the herpes virus that is so
common.
Like 90% of all cats are gonnahave the herpes virus.
But the problem with the calicivirus is if they get the clea
virus, whether they'resymptomatic or not, and this one
can cause like sores in theirmouth.
If your cat is geneticallydisposed, they have like a D N A

(07:11):
strain that that calici viruscan mutate into an extremely
deadly virus called FIP.
So FIP is feline infectiousperitonitis, which is the calici
virus, that can mutate.
So even if they get the virus,they may or may not get FIP.
Right.

(07:31):
I suppose we could equate it tolike H P V for people.
Like you can get H P V and youcan be fine your whole life, but
a percentage of people willactually develop cancer from, H
P V.
Yeah.
So it's a similar thing whereit's better just to avoid it
altogether(mm-hmm) than take therisk that your cat is going to
potentially, be one of the, youknow, percentage of animals that

(07:53):
develop FIP from calici.
Right.
And then what's the P stand for?
It's panleukopenia.
So the feline panleukopenia issimilar to puppy parvo.
Mm-hmm.
It is the same virus as theparvo virus.
And you actually test thekittens for panleuk with the
same, with a parvo test that isfor canines.

(08:17):
And, that one is, it's a littlebit rougher, I guess, than just
puppy parvo because it canattack their intestinal tracts
the way that, puppies get theparvo.
But, the reason why it's calledPanleukopenia is that it attacks
their white blood cells.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what makes it sofatal.

(08:39):
And it's highly contagious.
So a lot of times if you getpanleukopenia, you get like,
quote unquote a pan leukopeniaoutbreak at the shelters.
The, sadly those kittens aregoing to...
Yeah, they're, they're gonnaeuthanize everybody.
We fortunately work with somegreat shelters here and.

(08:59):
We kind of like borrow(mm-hmm)their fosters because, you know,
they can't take this on andtheir fosters continue caring
for the panleuk kittens underour direction.
Yeah.
'cause you can't just move themeither because now their house
is contaminated.
Yep.
You don't wanna move it toanother house and contaminate
it.
So instead those fosters just,you know, sign up with us and,

(09:22):
and we transfer the ownership ofthe cats to us.
Right.
And then we're in charge of thesituation.
And then the foster may or maynot stay with us, they may go
back.
Right.
and that's totally fine becausewe're borrowing them because
that's the kittens'...
Lifeline.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And then, so we found ourpanleukopenia cases with the
kittens is I feel like, wealways lose one in a litter.

(09:48):
Mm-hmm.
Rarely do we have an entirelitter survive, but.
Rarely do we have an entirelitter pass away.
Mm-hmm.
Well, that's survival of thefittest.
Right.
You know, some of'em are pushedto the brink and they die, and
other ones can really fightthrough it.
Exactly.
And the thing is, is that, youknow, we give them the chance.
Mm-hmm.
Again, like some of'em don'tmake it.

(10:10):
And that's really sad.
That's really hard on thefosters.
Mm-hmm.
But the, the flip side of it is,is that.
If it wasn't for them, thesurvivors wouldn't be here.
Yeah.
They'd be euthanized too.
Yeah.
And so like, like this, thissummer so far we've had two
panleuk cases and the firstlitter, all four(mm-hmm)

(10:31):
survived.
And they're in foster to adopthomes right now.
Their foster family is justhardcore.
She's great.
Actually, she took on anotherPan Luke litter.
Mm-hmm.
Because, you know, it's in yourhouse.
And the thing is, is that, youknow, like the older cats, just
like parvo with dogs, the olderanimals have a better immune

(10:54):
system.
Well, and they're vaccinatedhopefully.
Well, you should hope thatthey'd be vaccinated.
But I mean, they have a betterimmune system too.
So if they do get this virus,They've been vaccinated, they,
they're stronger.
And so you don't really see alot of these cases in adults,
per se.
Mm-hmm.
As much as kittens.
So, I mean, we did have a motherwith kittens that were panleuk

(11:15):
and, you know, the mother isjust like, Hey, I'm so, you
know, like, I'm just a littlesick, but I'm fine.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas, you know, the, thekittens are really fragile on
death's door.
You gotta do subq fluids, yougotta do a lot with them, so.
Mm-hmm.
So besides F V R C P, there'sonly one other vaccine we do for
cats.
Rabies.
Yeah, that's rabies.
And why don't you give thetimeframe on that?

(11:36):
Well, it's good practice at fourmonths to give rabies.
So typically that's what, what,16 weeks?
Mm-hmm.
But legally, and if you fly themand stuff like that, legally
Washington recognizes that youcan give rabies at 12 weeks.
Mm-hmm.
But a lot of vets don't reallylike to do it, at 12 weeks

(12:00):
because of the whole.
Vaccination schedule, right?
They prefer to give the rabiesat the end of it once they're
finished with their vaccinationcycle.
But just'cause I guess, I mean,it's kind of like when we're
little and we have so manyvaccinations, like, do we really
need three vaccinations on oneday?
Mm-hmm.
You know, I mean, if you canspread them out and it's easier

(12:22):
on the body than here have sixvaccinations one day.
Yeah.
No.
So FVRCP you do, we do three orfour in the series.
Three, three.
Three in the series.
And then when are they due forFVRCP next?
In a year.
And then, and the same thingwith rabies, right?
So after they're done with theirseries and then their rabies

(12:43):
vaccination.
You go one year.
Yep.
Yeah.
And then after that, you goevery three years for both.
Sure.
Well depend depending on yourvet.
Yeah.
Some vets might continue to doFVRCP(yearly) yearly, but we
recognize every three yearsafter that.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
If you know your cat had theproper course as a kitten and

(13:05):
you have documentation of that,then we think every year is
fine.
Every three years.
Yeah, every three years.
I'm sorry.
But if you don't know, then...
Adult cats get two.
Okay.
The reason for that is that whenthey're babies, they get Some
immunity from their mother'smilk, which can kind of
negate...

(13:26):
This is my favorite part of thewhole discussion.
So the best way to describe itis that each kitten's immunity
is a bowl, and the bowl has alid of ice on it, and some lids
are thick and some are thin.
And the point of the vaccine isto try and get the vaccine into
the bowl.
Sometimes it's gonna hit the iceand it's not gonna go in.

(13:47):
Which is a mother's milk thing.
Yes.
The lid of ice is the mother'simmunity that they've gotten
and.
But then some, if it's a thickice layer, then you need more
than one vaccine to make itthrough into the bowl.
And so you never know how muchimmunity the animals have.
Mm-hmm.
And this is why it varies andyou do a series because if you

(14:09):
do enough, Like three for akitten.
Chances are by the time they'resix months old, that's when the
immunity...
You filled the bowl.
Yeah.
The immunity is worn off fromtheir mother and you have filled
the bowl with the vaccine andnow they are actually
vaccinated.
Right.
So it's not like they are fullyvaccinated the first time.
Some in the litter might be one,two.
Mm-hmm.

(14:29):
You never know.
Right.
And so this is, this is.
The important part about why youhave to do the vaccines multiple
times and why it's important tokeep on the schedule.
Because if you don't keep on theschedule, then...
Then you have to restart theseries.
You would have to restart theseries because the animal's
immune system might eat up the,the antibody, immunity might eat

(14:50):
up the vaccine and it didn't getinto the bowl.
So, yeah, this is, that's myfavorite part.
Well, because it, it reallyexplains it so clearly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And because other people, othertimes they're like, I don't
understand why you have to dothis.
So often they don't follow theschedule.
But if you explain to them why,right.

(15:11):
Then they, the fosters are morelikely to follow the schedule.
Yeah.
You have to follow thatschedule.
Otherwise you start over andit's like, seriously?
Yeah.
'cause that wastes our money.
Yeah.
And it wastes.
Our time.
And so, yeah.
So if we have a foster that'slike...
You don't wanna poke a dog morethan we have to, or a cat more
than we have to.
No.
Especially a cranky cat, right?
Yeah.
So no, if a foster's notlistening and not, they're like,

(15:33):
oh, I'll just go next week.
No, next week is too late.
You need to go this week.
Yeah.
So it's very important that as afoster, you adhere to those
kinds of policies.
Right.
All right, so cats are prettyeasy when it comes to
vaccinations.
Dogs on the other hand, youknow, hopefully you're not
keeping'em in the house andyou're socializing them and,
properly.

(15:54):
And to do that, you have toprotect them from everything
that's out there.
And so our dogs get three, corevaccinations.
Well, we consider corevaccinations, but not all vets
are doing lepto yet.
So the first one that we do thatwe wanna talk about is that the
Distemper Parvo combo and it'sgot different names.

(16:15):
It's got D H P P, D A P P.
There's a D A P P I.
There's, you know, I mean, sothere's a lot of...
And some of'em have the L thrownin there too.
Well, that's for the lepto.
I know.
But, if yours has an L in it,then you've already gotten the
lepto.
Right.
But you're not gonna get that asa baby baby.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas, so kind of like withthe kittens, it is a series and

(16:40):
we have found that again, inshelters, they'll vaccinate
puppies every two weeks mm-hmm.
With the DH p p or whatever.
The D is for canine distemper.
Canine distemper is apotentially fatal disease.
And I mean, there are survivors.

(17:00):
It's 50 50 pretty much.
Well I had one once a littleguy.
He was a little whippet and ithad progressed to the point
where, he got the neuro symptomsand he was trembling and he
couldn't stand up and so we gavehim, you know, like a week and
it seemed like he was gettingworse.
And we had to hold him up to gopotty.

(17:22):
And so Bryan and I, like onenight we were like, all right,
if he doesn't show anyimprovement tomorrow, then
that's it.
Like he can't do this.
And the next morning he got upand walked on his own and he is
like, no, no.
No, I'm fine.
I heard you talking and I'mtotally fine.
I'm not milking this anymore.
Right.
And he got up and he kind ofloses a balance a little bit.

(17:45):
And, he shakes a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
But he is perfectly normal andhe lives a very nice life now.
Yeah.
Fortunately we don't see toomany distemper cases.
The distemper cases that we'vegotten have been, from Texas.
Mm-hmm.
And then we had that randompuppy that we found.
Mm-hmm.
That was a quote unquote stray.

(18:05):
Someone found it on its trailand you know, like, did you
really?
Mm-hmm.
Or, I mean,'cause you get a lotof the, oh, I found this dog.
Mm-hmm.
But it's really your.
Freaking dog, and it's kind ofobvious that it's your damn dog.
Mm-hmm.
And this was like, you know,like a little two month old
Chihuahua thingy.
Mm-hmm.
So it's not like he was runningthe woods of Redmond on his own.

(18:26):
So they probably knew somethingwas wrong.
They knew they didn't want it,or couldn't afford to take him
to the vet to fix it.
So they figured they'd leave himor they pretend that they, that
he, that they found him, theyfound him on the trail and know
that if they get him to the vetinto the right hands, then maybe
Right.
He'll survive.
And then he did not.
He was little.

(18:47):
When he started showing theneuro symptoms with the seizures
(mm-hmm) we had to let him go.
But we've, I mean, we've hadsuccess stories.
Mm-hmm.
Figaro was his name.
Firo.
Yeah.
And we had, we had a lab thatwas mm-hmm.
At PAWS they had taken atransport, From Texas, and this
was a while ago.
Mm-hmm.
Like before Covid.

(19:08):
It was a while ago.
And, thought, you know, I mean,'cause Distemper shows up as
bronchial issue mm-hmm.
Issues.
So they're like, oh, it lookslike he's got kennel cough.
Kennel cough.
Yeah.
And he did not, he haddistemper.
And sadly with him, he passedaway.
But another dog on thattransport with distemper, she
survived.

(19:28):
Mm.
And while it was, you know,bittersweet, we did have a
survivor, but we did lose thatlab.
And, it's hard because they'relike really sweet, you know, and
he wasn't a baby.
No.
But, that's why you vaccinate.
Mm-hmm.
So d is for distemper.
And then the other, things inthe.
Distemper Parvo comboVaccination is a canine

(19:50):
adenovirus, and, there's twotypes and so we cover both
types.
The P is for parvovirus.
Mm-hmm.
Which again, is a deadly, deadlydisease.
Especially for puppies.
Mm-hmm.
We have been fortunate that themajority of the parvo, puppies

(20:11):
that we get do survive.
Yeah.
Because we spend$5,000 on theirvet care.
Uh, Clark.
Clark Griswold was 20,000.
Well, there you go.
But when you have a Parvo puppy,you're looking at least, at
least like 5,000.
Yeah.
That's what you have to budgetper puppy.
Yeah, but I mean, and Clark wasnot getting better and he had to

(20:32):
have multiple transfusions.
But that's like over a thousanddollars per is the transfusion.
But that's usually what savesthem.
Yeah, usually.
And, it gives'em that boost thatthey need.
Because the thing is, is it's avirus.
It has to run its course.
They're vomiting, they're havingdiarrhea, they're getting
dehydrated.
So dehydration, iss a, one ofthe number one killers mm-hmm.

(20:53):
When it comes to parvo.
So you have to have'em on likeIV fluids.
You have to get them to eat.
It's basically supportive careand you can do it at home.
Mm-hmm.
But Clark, there are cases thatyou cannot do it from home.
Like Clark, he had a litter offour.
So we budgeted 5,000.
Mm-hmm.
For, when the, rescue reachedout and was like, Hey, we've got

(21:16):
parva.
We're like, holy crap.
And there's four of'em.
And I'm like, oh, 20,000.
Now we're gonna have to ask for$20,000.
And fortunately Rusty Griswold,who we still have, is available
for adoption- and his sister.
Audrey.
They did not have to behospitalized.
Yeah.
So we spent all 20,000 on Clark.

(21:36):
Well, and we went over becauseEllen, it's funny'cause the kid
names were fine, but the adultnames were in the hospital.
But Ellen like recovered prettyquickly.
Mm-hmm.
And she was able to go homefairly quickly.
But Clark, he was in thehospital for days.
And days.
Yeah.
And it's like a thousand dollarsa day for hospital care too.

(21:59):
Yeah.
And then he was gettingdepressed.
He's a baby.
So we had to take our chancesand we're like, let to get him
home and let him be with his momand his siblings and, and then
Yep.
And he turned around.
He got better.
But he really needed thathospitalization of he wouldn't
be here.
And then now he's with awonderful family that adopted

(22:19):
him.
He's got a big dog sister toplay with.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
So, p is for canine parvovirusand the other p is for
parainfluenza.
But that's not necessarily thecanine flu vaccine.
No, no, it's not.
It's totally different.
Mm-hmm.
And then, so there's anotherone, and then, I mean, you can
get more, like they've gotcombinations for the

(22:42):
coronavirus, the caninecoronavirus, but that's not
considered a core vaccination,you know?
Mm-hmm.
But we typically do the.
D A two p p, the d a p P, the DH P P, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you wanna call it we do'emat six weeks.
And then every three to fourweeks.

(23:02):
And we do a vaccination seriesof, four I'm gonna say D H P P
for consistency.
Mm-hmm.
We do, a series of four dhpp ifthey are with us at six weeks
and we start at six weeks andthen, Every three weeks until we
do four.
For the power breeds, like thepit bulls, and the shepherds.

(23:25):
We have had cases(mm-hmm) ofolder puppies and that had been
vaccinated, like eight monthsold, getting parvo.
So, we do that one extra, thefifth one per power breeds.
And again, this isn't somethingthat we just came up with
randomly.
This is a course that we'vediscussed with our vets.

(23:45):
So, not all vets do that.
And you know what?
And that's fine.
And that's why if you adopt apuppy from us, we tell you what
we've done, and then your vetdetermines the next steps for
your dog.
Mm-hmm.
the other thing that dogs getfrom us is bordetella, which is
kennel cough.
Kennel cough vaccine.

(24:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, we don't want, we don't getthe, give them.
Yeah.
No.
Thankfully.
That's pretty rare, but ithappens.
Oh, it happens.
I mean, you can go to the vet.
There's a dog there that haskennel cough.
You go to a dog park, there's adog there that has kennel cough.
That's most likely where it'sgonna come from.
Right?
You could be walking your dog byanother dog with kennel cough,

(24:27):
and he coughs, and like, lo andbehold, your dog got coughed on.
But it's just like a cold, youknow?
I mean, it's like us going tothe office.
Okay?
I don't right now.
But back in the day when youwent to the office, you were
around a bunch of people.
Some people were sick.
Mm-hmm.
They would have a cold, and thenyou might get that cold.
You might not get that cold.
And that's a thing with dogs inYeah.

(24:48):
Boit.
Oh, it's like the flu shot.
Right.
And then, so if a dog getsbordetella vaccination, Then
they might get kennel cough, butthey're not going to get it to
the severity that they would ifthey didn't have the
vaccination.
Kennel cough can turn intopneumonia.
Yeah.

(25:08):
That's when it gets dangerouswhen it's for an old dog or
young dog.
If they just can't fight it offon their own.
Mm-hmm.
That's when kennel cough becomesa big deal.
Right.
And then they may needantibiotics.
They may need a coughsuppressant.
But otherwise we don't run tothe vet for kennel cough because
it is a virus and typicallyantibiotics are not gonna help

(25:32):
it.
It will help prevent secondarybacterial infections, but it
will not help the dog get betterand it leads to drug resistant
strains.
Right?
So, if your dog is relativelyhealthy and normal, it's better
not to.
Right.
In our opinion, our nonveterinary opinion.
Right.
It's better to let them fight itoff.
Right, exactly.

(25:53):
Build up their immunity on theirown.
Mm-hmm.
But we also vaccinate every sixmonths.
Yes.
And this is, something that isreally a problem, between us and
a lot of vets, or at leastthere's a disconnect between the
client being the middleman.
And so some vets.
Do six month schedule.
Some vets do annual.

(26:14):
Typically, if you don't tellyour vet that you're boarding or
going to daycare, they willchoose annual.
Mm-hmm.
But if you are boarding andgoing to daycare, then you
should do six months.
Mm-hmm.
And most vets would be fine withthat.
Most vets would recommend that.
Most vets are happy to complywith policies of daycare and

(26:34):
boarding facilities that ask forthat, I think...
I think the vets who have theirown boarding facility require
six months.
Probably.
But here's where we get into anargument is that the client will
come back and say, well, my vetsaid that they only need it
every year.
And we say, okay, that's great.
But in our experience, Thosethat are in that latter six

(26:55):
months of their vaccine, theefficacy is waning and they are
more likely to be susceptible toit.
So if you just keep it quoteunquote fresh with every six
months, then your dog is gonnabe less likely one, to spread it
in two to get it.
And if they do get it, it'sgonna be mild.
Yeah.
Not as bad.

(27:16):
And so I think the disconnecthas been that the vet just says,
well, this is what we do, andthe people take that as like
written in stone and come backto us and then argue with us.
Mm-hmm.
We actually had to write aletter to our clients, begging
them to advocate for theiranimals to, you know, support
our policy because we don't wantyour dogs getting sick.

(27:39):
And it will happen more likelyif we like...
If we get lax.
If we give into that yearsystem, which isn't recommended
for dogs that are boarding or indaycare.
So we just say, please tell yourvet that your dog is in boarding
in daycare, and that it is arequirement of the facility, and
99% of'em will do it.

(28:00):
Mm-hmm.
But it's the people coming backat us like we're asking for
something unreasonable.
Right.
Because, Their vet is God.
And God said, you don't need it,but you didn't give them all the
details either, right?
Mm-hmm.
And your dog is going to be theone that suffers our business is
going to be the one that suffersif animals are sick.
Well, and the other, the otherdogs.

(28:21):
I mean, you're, it's fine ifyou're like, oh, my dog's
healthy and he doesn't need it,but, What if he gets it and he
hurts the other dogs that arearound him in the facility?
I mean, you're being, I'm notsaying you're being selfish.
Well, it's just like covid.
It's like the people that didn'twant a mask and, you know,
they're like, well, so do younot care about the people around

(28:42):
you?
And then the people, so it's...
It's the old, the ones who aregonna be more susceptible
because like we have seniors.
Yeah, we have puppies.
You have to think beyond yourhealthy, vibrant dog to the ones
who may be more susceptible.
Well, well, and when your doggets older, do you want other

(29:03):
people being so callously,thoughtless with your dog and
their health?
You don't.
So a lot of times it'sfrustrating when we have to
argue our policies because theyare for the best interest of all
the animals.
Yeah.
Including yours and why vetsargued with us on this one.
I, I don't know, before it wasthe giardia...

(29:26):
The giardia antigen.
And we had to give in because itwas so ridiculous that it was a
daily argument with clients,vets.
And the one vet loved putting usin the middle, and she made us
the enemy and she purposelyantagonized those clients.
And I was just, I was appalled,but we're gonna lose because

(29:49):
we're not vets, even though wehave a lot of experience with
groups of dogs, with herdexperience.
But again, I mean, it's, a lotof it is, like that opinion
because our vet is the one whosaid yes.
If the Giardia antigen test, ifit's positive, you definitely

(30:09):
treat it, the first time.
Mm-hmm.
It's positive.
Because then that means thatthere, there might have been a
recent...
Yeah, they're fighting aninfection.
Right.
And that's undeniable.
They're fighting an infectionand that infection could
result...
But yeah, but you know what, nowthat I'm thinking about it, like
so the Eliza is an antibodytest, right?
For Giardia.

(30:29):
'cause they're fighting Giardia,right?
Mm-hmm.
But, The Coronavirus vaccinationwas also an antibody.
Mm-hmm.
And if that was positive, thenit's like, oh, you got Corona.
Right.
So how come the antigen forGiardia?
They're like, no, they don'thave it.
Right.
This is what's so frustrating,is that if any vets are out

(30:50):
there, can you, can you answerthat?
Yeah.
It's a, it's a question.
We're not bashing vets.
No.
We wanna seriously understandwhy it's blanketly accepted for
humans.
And then when it comes to dogs,it's like, I don't know, it's
like the antichrist of stuff.
Well, I mean, and I get it.
Vet stuff.
I mean,'cause giardia is a painin the ass.
I mean, giardia is everywhere.
G is like, it's so annoying.

(31:11):
And it's so simple to treatthough.
That's the problem.
Well just treat it! Well.
No, remember that one dog thathad to like be treated for
freaking ever, they got this dogfrom a breeder with Giardia.
And they wanted to bring it todaycare, and it's just like, oh,
nope.
Positive.
Oh no.
Still positive.
Well, and the vet...
Oh my God, she's so positive.
The vet was arguing with us thatthe Elisa was positive, but the

(31:35):
dog didn't have Giardia and wewouldn't let the dog in.
And we said, you go ahead and doa float next time, because that
dog's gonna have eggs in that.
And sure enough, we were right.
The vet was so mad that we wereright, that it meant that it was
just waiting for, you know, anoutbreak.

(31:56):
And we don't want that outbreakto be in our yard.
Well, not, not just an our yard,but I mean, like, come on, dogs
are gross.
They're poop eaters.
So like...
Like why isn't deworming just aregular?
And, and I think I, I think thevets.
Do like deworm.
But not giardia.
They well it, well, yeah.
They don't do like an annual,like, here you go, you know?

(32:17):
Well, no, they do, but annualisn't enough.
No, but I'm saying an annualfenbendazole or whatever.
Oh, like normally?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know why youwouldn't just do it every six
months at least.
You know what else doesn't showup on a fecal really well?
Tape worms.
No.
You know, like, you don't evenknow they have tape worms until
they're totally infested.
And if you're not like pickingup their poop every day, which

(32:40):
you should be by the way.
Mm-hmm.
If you may not even see thesegments, you know, and be like,
Ooh, gross.
That's tape worm.
Yeah.
You can usually tell'cause thepoop is dancing.
But you have to be picking itup.
And you're infested by them.
Right.
You know?
Well, the other thing is withGiardia is that a lot of times
the vets will say if there areno symptoms, but how often do

(33:01):
people really go out and examinetheir dogs, poop, their dog's
pooping on the other side of theyard, you know, a hundred feet
away.
They don't know whether or notthe dog has symptoms.
And how many times have we seenGiardia that's asymptomatic.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Many, many, many.
It doesn't, it doesn't matter ifthey're symptomatic or not.
But that's what the vet says.
If it's not symptomatic, thenwe're not gonna treat.

(33:23):
So we found out like Axl.
He is not symptomatic.
He's got perfect poop.
Okay.
But we did the senior panel onhim, because we're like, why is
he so quiet?
Yeah.
Why is he the anti husky?
You know, and because he came tous with problems.
If he didn't have initialproblems, it's not like we would
just randomly run a blood test.

(33:44):
We run blood tests on our dogsanyway, but we did an another
one on him just because he's aweirdo and.
With the fecal.
He was positive for Giardia.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
And, and he's been like treatedlike,'cause we always treat.
We treat prophylactically.
Exactly.
Meaning like without testing wetreat, we treat all animals.

(34:06):
Yeah.
With specific dewormers becauseit's very likely.
Mm-hmm.
And it's cheaper to treat thanto test and then treat.
And he's not a poop eater.
Mm-hmm.
But this leads us to the factthat.
Giardia, especially around here,is so common because...
It's ridiculous.
It has to do with puddles andwater in the ground.
And so, you know...

(34:27):
A bird can fly over your yardand poop.
Yeah.
So we've digressed away fromvaccines to...
Giardia.
Giardia, but it is a core issuefor us.
And so for boarding, forexample, it is a core thing that
we do test for.
So when you go to board anddaycare, they should ask, at
least in this part of thecountry, they should ask for a

(34:49):
fecal.
Yeah.
And whether or not they ask forthe Elisa Antigen test, you
don't know.
We don't ask for it anymore, butwe do the fecals more frequently
also.
We do fecals every four months.
Yes.
And it used to be every six whenwe could do the elisa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because the Elisa helped us feelmore confident(mm-hmm) that we

(35:11):
were catching Giardia inbetween.
Right.
And I would say that while ourdaycare was not a source of
Giardia(mm-hmm) we saw moreGiardia when we stopped doing
the ELISA test.
Yeah, that's true.
But we got so tired of arguingwith the vets.
I couldn't do it one more time.
Right.
And we had to just back down andchange our policy.

(35:32):
Right.
Which I find ridiculous.
Right?
Yeah.
Why should we have to change ourpolicy about our facility when
we are going a step above andbeyond to keep the dogs healthy
And the vets are telling us It'stoo much.
Don't, don't do it.
It's not all the vets though.
It's not all the vets.
Okay.
It was the majority of them.
You have no idea how many timesI argued this, that I didn't

(35:52):
tell you.
I know specific, but I know aspecific that well.
I just couldn't even, I couldn'teven muster a fight anymore.
I just said forget it.
And we gave up.
Part of our vaccination routineis to de-worm, so now I'm gonna
come full circle.
So we, at two weeks we can startwith a little bit of pyrantel,

(36:15):
which is strongid So that's onekind of dewormer.
Yeah.
And it only does.
Certain things.
Yeah.
And it's pretty gentle on likeroundworm, I think strongid the
best thing for round worms.
Like you just give it to'em andthe next day they're pooping
worms.
Well, and roundworms...
That's why I don't eatspaghetti.
Roundworms is one of the mostcommon at that age, too.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I mean like every puppy, likeseriously.

(36:36):
I, I have never, I'm trying tothink, have I ever had a puppy
not have worms?
I mean, they're all frickingwarmy little things, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And granted, we've got mothersthat are probably not taken care
of mm-hmm.
To the standards that we takecare of ours, you know, and
probably they haven't beenvaccinated, they haven't had,

(36:56):
good care.
Especially the ones that I'mdoing now, like Papa, his mom
wasn't very well taken care of.
Mm-hmm.
And those puppies are not asthrifty they should be.
And I already dewormed them andthey did, they did totally poop
out some round worms.
Well, and that's the hard part,is that you give the dewormer
and then you see the wormscoming out.

(37:18):
Mm-hmm.
And that's the gross part.
Mm-hmm.
But it is working.
Yeah.
That they're dying and that'swhy they're coming out.
Exactly.
I love it.
I mean, I don't know that I, I,I, that's the reason why I like
strongid is because it's almostinstant that I see Yeah.
Like relief.
Whereas like if I usefenbendazole, I don't see the
quickness(mm-hmm) that I do withthe strongid.

(37:40):
And maybe that's a personalthing.
Like someone can be like, well,ours do it, and, you know,
that's totally fine.
But they do different things, soyou can't just choose one over
the other.
Well, and then you can give thestrongid it is just one dose.
Mm-hmm.
And basically, it's the firstdewormer.
And then we used to do ponazurilbecause we were seeing a lot of
cases of coccidia and now we'renot seeing a lot of coccidia.

(38:04):
What's coccidia?
Coccidia is mostly transmittedthrough...
It's a parasite.
Rabbit poop.
A parasite in rabbit poop.
It can also be in farm animals,so if you have puppies around
farm animals, there's a goodchance that they have coccidia
or they will get coccidia.
Mm-hmm.
And this is also something thatis transmissible in a daycare or

(38:24):
boarding setting if you havepoop eaters especially.
But coccidia, you can find onthe fecal float.
Yes.
Yes.
coccidia floats.
Giardia eggs do not float.
Yeah.
And they are also sointermittent.
One day you look, there will benone.
The next day you look andthere's 10,000.
Yeah.
So that's the tricky thing aboutGiardia and that's why we felt

(38:46):
it was so important to treat itwhen you see it on the elisa
because it means that those eggsare coming.
Or Yeah.
Typically.
You're fighting it then andthere.
So that's our dewormingprotocol.
Two weeks is the earliest, butwe, you know, we'll typically do
like four weeks.
Mm-hmm.
And then we do the first D H P Pat six weeks, and then We'll do

(39:08):
another Dewormer, which isPanacur.
Mm-hmm.
Fenbendazole.
So, fenbendazole is your genericname.
Panacur is a brand name.
Mm-hmm.
And, we'll do, a five dayprophylactic course for Giardia,
but it takes care of a lot ofother worms.
It's a broad spectrum dewormer,but we know the bonus is that it

(39:28):
takes care of giardia at thesame time.
Okay, so we've talked about theDistemper Parvo combo.
So that starts at six weeks,every three to four weeks.
And then Borella we do oncebecause we do an oral borella,
and it doesn't really need abooster.
So the first bordetellavaccination that we do is at

(39:51):
nine weeks.
Obviously, you know, if they'reolder, they're gonna get one
regardless.
But if we have newborn puppies,very young puppies, it starts at
nine weeks and then every sixmonths continuing from there.
Hopefully they're adopted.
So we don't have to continueevery six months, but I'm just
saying mm-hmm.
If they're with us, it's sixmonths.

(40:12):
And the distemper parvo.
If we get older dogs, if we getdogs who are six months and
older, we'll do, two.
Okay.
So similar to, so we'll, yeah.
So we'll do one and then we'lldo another booster.
Because we're hoping that.
Well, we know that theirmother's ice lid of mm-hmm.

(40:33):
Immunity is gone.
Right.
But we do two because it's onefor good measure.
Because their immune systemcould be ramped up to eat up the
first vaccine.
So the second is for goodmeasure to ensure that one of
them got through.
Right.
And then what's the next one?
And then the next one that we dois not considered a core
vaccination.

(40:54):
It is considered, it's stillconsidered elective, but a lot
of vets are starting to jump onthe leptosporosis.
Bandwagon.
It's not a bandwagon.
Why would I say that?
Well, especially in this area.
Like people like dog daycaresand boarding facilities in
Arizona have no idea aboutgiardia.
They don't, they don't test forit.

(41:14):
Because it's so dry.
It's so dry, they have no needfor it.
We here in Washington, it's wet.
There's puddles.
Again, where it's similar toGiardi out where it's a similar
kind of way to get it and itcomes from wildlife.
Yeah.
The main culprit is deer, urineto be specific.
And so when you're walking inthe woods, or if you're in an

(41:34):
environment like here, wheredeer will walk through your
yard, You definitely want to getyour leptosporosis shots.
Leptosporosis it's highlycontagious but it causes
urging...
Extremely deadly.
Yeah.
It causes, organ failure.
Mm-hmm.
So if, your dog is lucky enoughto survive lepto, it's going to

(41:57):
be a little bit costly becausethey're gonna be in the
hospital.
And because it causes organfailure, your dog most likely
will have chronic organ issues.
So whether it is, ongoingchronic, renal insufficiency or,
something like that...
A$25 shot is gonna be way betterthan risking it long term.

(42:20):
Two$25 shot.
Right.
So you do the first one.
Yeah.
And then you do a booster inthree to four weeks.
Yep.
And that's it.
And then an annual every year.
And that one doesn't go everythree years.
It's every year.
Just like a flu shot.
I mean the distemper shot is youget your boosters, you get your
annual, then you get one everythree years.
Mm-hmm.
same thing with rabies and thenagain, With our puppies.

(42:42):
the vets do like to give thepuppies the rabies at 16 weeks.
But they may give ours earlier,depending.
Right.
Well, this is also too why wesay they have age appropriate
vaccines.
Mm-hmm.
When we adopt out an animal,because every animal that comes
to us is of a different age, hasa different history, has a

(43:03):
certain.
Or no vaccine history, but wecan only do what we can do when
they're in our care.
Mm-hmm.
And so if you adopt a puppy, youknow, in between their D H P P
series, you might be responsiblefor two dhpp or you might be
responsible for three or one.
Or another lepto.
So...
Or the rabies.
Right.
So we do everything we can whenthey're in our care, but

(43:26):
especially if you're adopting apuppy, a puppy more so than a
kitten, but.
A puppy that there's a chancethat we quote unquote, haven't
done everything because thepuppy's not old enough yet.
Right, exactly.
And the thing is, is also like,like with the rabies, like I
said, Washington staterecognizes rabies at 12 weeks,
but not all vets will do themthat early.

(43:48):
Well, and I don't know whatother states recognize either.
It might be different in otherstates.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't, we haven'tresearched it.
'cause you know, we're inWashington.
We're in Washington.
That's all we need to know.
Upon occasion we might throw ina coronavirus.
Because there was that one timeit was spreading.
Mm-hmm.
Because some people were, and itwas funny because they were

(44:08):
trying to blame it on rescues.
Oh.
Bringing dogs from overseas?
No, it was breeders and Yeah,but it was breeders.
It's the people who were buyingpuppies from like Korea with
their little handmade toy,little thingies.
Because those people aren'tgonna invest in the animal and
their health.
They're just gonna ship offwhatever.

(44:29):
Whereas rescues and shelters,Are investing in the animal's
care, and therefore they've putmoney into making sure those
animals are not sick, that theyhave vaccinations.
So it is never going to be arescue or a shelter that is
contributing to, you know, thattemper.
Yeah.
That kind of thing or whatever.

(44:49):
It's gonna be the people doingit for profit who mm-hmm.
Who benefit more from skimpingon the medical care.
Right.
They're, they're gonna cutcorners because it gets them
more money.
When we had to do thecoronavirus shots and there was
a huge uproar about rescuesbringing in dogs from other
countries.
I was like, how old did you,because in the article it said

(45:09):
it was a three month old puppy.
And I'm like, how old did yousay?
Because internationally, we as arescue are not allowed to take
anything under six months.
Yep.
So when the article said threemonths, I was like, someone
bought themselves a dog.
Yeah.
And of course, rescues andshelters get vilified.
Mm-hmm.
And unscrupulous greedy breederswin.

(45:31):
Yeah.
Well, and so it also happenedthat during the pandemic, the
CDC.
There was a puppy transportedwith rabies, similar situation,
like everyone is confident it'sa breeder, but the C d C shut
down 140 or 114 countries.

(45:53):
Yeah.
Countries from shipping animals,from quote unquote rabies
endemic places.
Mm-hmm.
Including the rescues that weworked with in Thailand and
Korea.
Mm-hmm.
And I mean, at the time,shipping animals was prohibitive
anyways.
Right.
Because Coronavirus is soexpensive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It went from$500 a dog to$2,500a dog.

(46:15):
Yeah.
And so no one was shippinganimals anyways.
And of course, nevermind.
Now we have our own problem inour own country, in our own
state...
Right.
With overpopulation.
Right.
So we're not looking outsidethere anyways, but, but, um, but
it was a similar thing.
And actually there are stillmany, many countries that are on
the band list still, includingThailand, which I don't know, I

(46:36):
think I think I saw somethingwhere they, they just went to, I
wanna say California.
Hmm.
They just ship some dogs rightnow.
They're fighting.
Um, you know, the meat trade.
Well, and then let's talk aboutthe canine flu, which is a

(46:57):
vaccine that is elective.
Um, and, but there have beenoutbreaks on the East coast.
And Midwest that were killingdogs, rampantly.
But we still weren't consideringit a core or even something we
really needed to worry abouthere.
Yeah.
We did it when we got a grant.
Of, canine flu vaccines so thatwe could do it.

(47:21):
Mm-hmm.
But it is not a wise investmentfor us to do.
Right.
But it is certainly somethingthat, an owner could do mm-hmm.
Electively later.
Right.
But thankfully we haven't hadthat deadly strain come by here,
so, no.
I don't even know how many vetsactually carry the flu shot
around here.
I know that there's one daycarewho requires it.

(47:41):
Really?
Yeah.
I thought it was weird.
Yeah, that is a little strange.
I mean, I guess I couldunderstand why, like if I
thought we could quote, unquoteget away with it in the sense
that we are, aren't alreadybattling enough issues with the
vets.
Mm-hmm.
I would say, sure, let's do it.

(48:02):
But I don't, we were alreadybattling too many core issues.
Well, I don't know that we'vehad any like, Strength, like flu
things come up.
No.
So why?
You know, because if it came, itwould kill the animals.
And now with animals travelingso much, I mean, all it takes is

(48:22):
someone moving from Chicago tocome here and bring it, which is
why we also had a two weekquarantine.
Right.
For the daycare, you could notjust get an animal from anywhere
and bring it to our daycare.
Yeah.
For two weeks because you had towait and see if it.
Broke with something.
Yeah.
And that was from a breeder,from another friend, from
anywhere.
If it the dog was new to you fortwo weeks, you did not bring it

(48:45):
to the daycare.
Yeah.
And that helped prevent a lot ofillnesses from coming through.
And that would technically,hopefully, prevent the canine
flu from coming through.
If we're quarantining our dogs,you're gonna have to quarantine
your dogs too.
Right.
And breeder dogs get parvo.
Oh, we know from this for afact.
They have a lot of problems.
One of the other things thatisn't a vaccine that, that we

(49:08):
should talk about though,because we sometimes test for it
is heartworm and Oh, we're doinga whole segment on heartworm
though.
Okay.
But let's just briefly touch onit here because, You know why,
like, why we test for it?
And you know why we might notbecause, so remember, Pablo's
person was like, why didn't youtest for this?

(49:28):
And I said, because...
'Cause he came from Yakima.
Yeah.
So, so why don't you talkquickly about that.
So heartworm is prevalent.
In the warmer climates, thesouthern states, it's like
epidemic, right?
Florida, if you get a dog offthe street, I mean, shit, Texas
too.
Like if you get a dog off thestreet, you're gonna test right

(49:50):
away for heartworm, and it'sgonna be 50 50 if it comes back
positive or negative.
And, the problem with theheartworm is that they can have
heartworm, but it's immature.
And the heartworm snap test onlytests for antigens produced by
adults.

(50:10):
So it takes about like sixmonths for, a larva
microfillaria to mature into anadult heartworm who's gonna
like, You know, start latchingonto things and start eating
away at the heart.
So this is why we don't test anyanimals or any dogs under six
months because it's pointless.
It's pointless.

(50:31):
And then we do test when theycome in from a heartworm endemic
place.
Even if they already have aheartworm test, because we've
had that happen before.
Mm-hmm.
Where they did a heartworm testand it was negative.
And then they ended up havingheartworm.
Mm-hmm.

(50:51):
And then one time we took a dogthat was supposed to have been
native to Washington and it hadheartworm.
Yeah.
But that was because he was astray at the shelter.
So was he really native toWashington?
Right.
And we don't know.
Mm-hmm.
But we can't spend money onsomething that isn't a typical

(51:11):
problem here.
Right now it's not epidemic,right.
So, like the dogs that come tous from Eastern Washington, for
example, and, Yakima.
'cause we've been taking a lotof Yakima dogs.
We won't necessarily heartwormtest them.
Well, mostly they're puppiestoo.
That's why, I mean, most of themare puppies.
I know.
But even when we get adult ones,we're not gonna test'em.
It's starting to show becauseof, the movement of animals from

(51:35):
the rescues from outta state,bringing the dogs in.
Mm-hmm.
Are, you know, are they vettingpeople?
Are you educating them?
Is it part of your adoptionprocess to say, Hey, They came
from a heartworm state, youbetter continue heartworm.
Mm-hmm.
Preventatives for at least sixmonths.
Mm-hmm.
Because you have to kill off thelarvae.
Right.

(51:55):
That may not show up on aheartworm test.
Well, and the thing is, is thatthe preventative won't treat so,
If you skip a month or you knowyou are not doing it, and then
you decide to do it, you have toget a heartworm test to make
sure they don't have it, so thatyou're not trying to prevent
something that they alreadyhave.
And then it also is not going totreat it, and the treatment is

(52:17):
very expensive, very timeconsuming, very.
Unfun for your dog and literallylike their heart could explode
so...
Well, it's not, it's not thatthe heart explodes, it's the
embolism from well to your heartcould explode.
That is the best way to describeit.
Because it could not be yourheart.

(52:38):
It could be your lungs, it couldbe your brain, wherever.
But you have to keep themconfined and from doing
activities.
Yeah.
And that you gotta keep'em frompumping that heart.
So see, the heart could explodeand.
Basically your heart, your dogwill just keel over and die.
It's not exploding.
It's like the heart sending outmissiles that could like

(52:59):
contact.
Okay, well either way it'sdisastrous.
It is.
And you wanna avoid it.
So it's much cheaper and easierto prevent it.
Especially if you've had anegative heartworm test, then
keep on preventing it.
So the heartworm medication,like HeartGuard Revolution,
Simparica Trio, not justEmpirica'cause you've gotta get

(53:20):
that heartworm medication inthere kills the microfillaria,
it kills the larva, it preventsthem from being adults.
The revolution will not.
It's supposed to preventheartworm, but...
It prevent, it prevents theadults from adulting.
Okay.
Because it kills the babies.
Okay.
So the heartworm preventative isactually a baby killer.

(53:42):
It's a larva killer.
Well, and then I guess if we'retalking about heartworm
preventative, maybe we shouldtalk about just quickly flea
treatment too.
Yeah.
And that's why like, some peoplelike the Simparica Trio'cause
it's oral, it's easy.
Whatever.
Is it monthly or is it like oneof those three months?
Yeah, so, um, I don't, so thereis something like pro heart or

(54:04):
something like that, that isactually three months, six
month, yeah.
And I think they do an annual, Ithink it's a shot or something
for a heartworm.
I don't know how I feel aboutthat.
I don't know.
I would forget.
Get, what are you talking about?
You forget, especially if it'sannual.
I would forget to do it everythree months or whatever.
Oh, like Bravecto.
Yeah.
Bravecto is like a three monthfee.

(54:25):
I have a hard enough time withevery month, but if you took a
time away and I was, I wouldjust run, I would forget.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, but some people like tohave calendars on their phone.
I give'em notifications.
Right.
Which I did when my dogs were indaycare.
They had everything in themm-hmm.
The computer, but, Um, we don't,there's some things like if

(54:46):
we're using something that worksand it's effective and we can
get it inexpensively, then we'lluse that.
We're, we don't just jump on anew product until it's been
tried and tested and, andwhatever.
So there are a lot of new orflea treatments and combo
treatments that we don't.
Use or don't know that muchabout.
Or they have like, you know,some side effects that are like

(55:09):
kind of questionable.
Yes.
But I mean, everything has sideeffects, right?
We used to love revolution andwe still love it for a lot of
reasons.
But it doesn't work for ticks atall.
Mm-hmm.
And I was actually reading onone of the chat groups that it's
not working great for fleasanymore either.
Well, it depends on where youare.
Yeah.
Because in Florida, yeah.
The fleas out of there.

(55:30):
The fleas in Florida are out of,Controlling.
Yeah.
Like, they're so bad.
I know it doesn't work for ticksbecause I put it on meatball.
I work and he ended up withticks.
But.
It works for ear mites, which isanother reason why we like it.
Mm-hmm.
Especially for cats.
Yep.
And, and being a heartwormpreventative, as long as we know
the dog doesn't have heartwormto start.

(55:50):
Exactly.
And then, you know, like, sothere were benefits to doing it
that way.
Mm-hmm.
But, um, We've also gottengrants of flea treatment and
we're gonna certainly use thoseinstead of, buying it.
so I think that covers our basicprotocol, include testing and...
Yeah, our basic protocol.
I.

(56:10):
We've got for, for cats, we'vegot the FVRCP, we've got the
rabies.
We've got a deworming protocol,and then we do, monthly.
Revolution.
Mm-hmm.
And then for our dogs, we've gotour protocol for their distemper
parvo combo.
And our bordetella.

(56:31):
And our leptosporosis.
Even though it's not a core, wedo it.
And rabies.
Yep.
Along with testing for heartwormwhen needed.
And some of our pit bull babies,though sometimes they are more
susceptible to dedex.
Yes.
And um, revolution is not thatgreat that we found from Dex.

(56:54):
It's great for Sarcoptic mange.
So it's a Sarcoptic mite.
And Sarcoptic mange is scabies.
So that's one that people canget too.
Exactly.
So the dedex is we will use aNEX card mm-hmm.
Um, for puppies.
Mm-hmm.
And then when they're older, thethree month veta mm-hmm.
And that helps our pit bullsespecially.

(57:16):
Yeah.
They seem to be particularlysusceptible to Yeah.
But they have a lot of skinissues and allergies too.
Well, I mean, everyone lovestheir blue babies, right?
Mm-hmm.
And they're gonna have, that'snot a natural color.
So when you have a dog thatdoesn't have a quote unquote
natural color, it's gonna have,more skin issues because that's
not the norm.
Kind of like with the Dobermans,you've got your reds, your reds

(57:38):
are gonna have more skin issues,your fawns, the silvers,
whatever you wanna call'em.
Mm-hmm.
All the things that people like.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
It's not natural.
Five hours later.
That's about all we have timefor.
We've run down our review of thebasics that we have, for our

(57:59):
cats and our dogs, includingvaccines, deworming,
preventative, all that kind ofstuff.
So, if you have any questions,talk to your vet because they're
the only one that can help you.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
We will start you out and giveyou all of our vaccinations that
we've done for our dogs.
And then your vet, we'll take itfrom there.
Mm-hmm.

(58:20):
Yep.
And we have no problem withthat.
Nope.
No.
Alright then I am Jme.
And I'm Pate.
And this is our podcast and it'sover And Rock On.
Rescue on.
You didn't say rescue shit.
I dunno.