February 6, 2025 • 41 mins
Go into some of the tricks and tips Pate uses to trim the nails of both puppies, kittens and adult animals- even when they are not the biggest fans!
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
jme (00:00):
Hi, I'm jme.
Pate (00:01):
And I'm Pate.
This is Motley Zoo AnimalRescue.
jme (00:04):
And our podcast, Rescue Shit.
Pate (00:09):
Need that squeaker.
For real.
jme (00:10):
I was thinking there was more to it than that.
See, I don't know why I'm caughtoff guard every single time.
Pate (00:15):
For what?
jme (00:16):
I was waiting for, for us to go back and forth again.
Saying something and I'm like,like, we just introduced
ourselves.
Right.
I'm, I think I'm just.
Dumb.
Pate (00:28):
You're blonde.
Am I allowed to say that or isthat not PC?
jme (00:33):
I'm sure it's not PC, but I don't really care.
Okay.
Today we are going to talk aboutnail trimming.
And this is something that maybe
Pate (00:42):
I'm sorry.
I'm thinking about that pug thatscreams.
jme (00:47):
Yes, I know.
Pate (00:48):
Oh my God.
jme (00:53):
Like, it sounds like Walter, the Frenchie,
Pate (00:55):
like Duchess, Duchess screams.
jme (00:58):
Yeah.
And I, I was going to ask youabout her.
I was going to ask you to useher as an example, but, so nail
trimming is probably somethingthat instills fear in a lot of
pet owners and it's somethingthat they don't usually want to
do themselves.
And that's totally fine.
But it's not because you can't,There are some challenges,
(01:18):
especially when you get an adultdog that hasn't had good
practice before that.
But why don't we start off justby talking about if you do have
a puppy or a kitten, and you'restarting off fresh, what should
you do, to prepare them for thefuture?
Pate (01:34):
Well, you definitely want to handle them a lot.
You want to handle them indifferent situations, like body
positions.
Body positions, yeah.
And, what I always do with mypuppies, and my kittens
actually, is I'll have them inmy lap with their back to my
stomach, and I'll hold theirfeet and we'll play, you know?
(01:54):
I'll just play with their feet.
Both their front feet and theirback feet.
And then you slide them downinto a laying down position on
your lap.
And they have to be comfortable.
Some dogs will struggle and thenthey'll try to flip over.
But you just have to, It's notan alpha role by any means.
(02:14):
I did have someone say somethingto me once when I had a puppy on
their back and they tried tostruggle out and they were
crying and I was like, you know,petting his belly but I didn't
allow him to get up.
It was a training thing.
jme (02:29):
Well, that was his tantrum in the grocery store.
Pate (02:31):
Exactly.
jme (02:32):
And if you let him go, he would get the treat.
He would learn.
Yeah.
And so then the next timesomebody tried to handle him, he
would know that if he strugglesor squeals, Mm hmm.
They'll stop.
Pate (02:45):
Right.
jme (02:45):
This is the start of terrible, bad patterns.
That was a person who had verystrict and specific ideas of
what training was like.
But did not actually have,actually have life experience.
Yeah.
So, the difference betweentextbook and life experience.
Pate (03:02):
But then that's gonna be a lot of people.
jme (03:03):
That's a lot of people, that is.
Whenever I have that situationwhere I have a puppy or a kitten
that's panicking, I, I hold themand they're struggling a little
bit and I tell everybody theyneed to calm down before I let
them go or else they will learnthis is how to get down.
Pate (03:19):
Right.
If you struggle, then I'll putyou down.
jme (03:22):
Yeah.
And I'm like, so it might seemweird, but I'm teaching them
something here and it's veryimportant to make them
handleable and adoptable.
Pate (03:28):
Right.
jme (03:29):
So I just talk through it and tell people what I'm doing.
Pate (03:32):
Right.
And then with the puppies, youknow, and the kittens, when
they're very young, not a lot ofpeople are going to have their
puppies and kittens as young asI do.
But I will give you a puppy thathas a good foundation on this
because I will take my babiesand then I'll put them like in
the crook of my arm and thenthey will be on their back.
(03:53):
You know, kind of like you holda human baby and then that way
they get used to that.
They know they're secure and sothey don't struggle when they're
on their back.
And I find that when I do thenail trims when they're babies,
when they're on their back, it'sso much easier.
And then, you know, obviouslyit's a lot of reward when
(04:14):
they're on their back, you givethem treats when you're playing
with their feet, you do thisconstantly.
And you look at their mouth andeverything like that.
Everything has to be in aplayful manner, it's a little
bit of stress sometimes becausethey're like, what are you
doing?
But you can stress out an animalto a certain extent.
(04:35):
Well that's how.
Everybody develops.
That's how you get past.
I mean, isn't this part of whathumans are struggling with right
now?
Everybody wants to becomfortable and nobody wants to
be challenged and yeah, and thenyour anxiety just grows and
grows and grows because youryour Ability to be uncomfortable
gets less and less and less.
And so we're trying to teachthem that being uncomfortable
(04:59):
with new experiences in thebeginning as a puppy is Will
lead to good things later andthat it won't be a uncomfortable
experience if someone picks themup awkwardly or when the vet
starts poking in their ears orthey have to have their ears
clean.
So, it is, it is very importantto do that handling.
Yeah.
(05:19):
Cause you're acclimating them orwhat is it, you're desensitizing
them to certain stimuli that'snot typical.
In nature, I guess, because,
jme (05:31):
but they're going to have to go to the vet and they're
going to have to have thesethings done.
So you may as well make it agame when they're younger.
If you can, you know, if youhave your dog, when they're
younger or a cat, make it a gameand just make it so that nothing
really feels that uncomfortableto them.
Pate (05:47):
Right.
Or if it's uncomfortable, well,you know, it's fine for me to be
uncomfortable because eventuallyit's not that big of a deal,
right?
jme (05:55):
Once they work through it, then it's not uncomfortable for
them anymore.
Pate (05:58):
And you keep doing it.
jme (05:59):
This idea though is especially important for a dog
that is of a certain type thatneeds to go to the groomer.
You need to start brushing,playing with their paws,
sticking, you know, fingers intheir ears gently.
You need to start doing all thethings that the groomer is going
to have to do or you are goingto have a ton of trouble.
(06:19):
Finding a groomer that will workwith your dog and it is
medically necessary for thosekinds of dogs to get groomed.
This is not a vanity issue.
It is a requirement.
So don't forget to do that kindof thing and make it a game.
Again, everything you do withyour puppy and your kitten, you
(06:40):
can make it a game and you canmake it fun.
And honestly, when I'm handlingkittens, like at an event.
The more kind of manhandling Ido, which, you know, I'm like
playing with them and turningthem over on their back.
I'm doing stuff to them.
The more I do that, the more,the calmer they get and the more
they trust me.
Yeah.
And so I, I'm always like, youjust got a manhandle on like,
(07:01):
you know, and I'm sure peoplethink it's crazy, but what are
you doing?
You have to, you really do haveto do that and they will be more
comfortable later in life.
Pate (07:10):
Right.
jme (07:10):
So how do you start actually, you know, teaching
your dog how to, sit still for,for nail trims?
So you, you've got maybe a puppyor a kitten on their back, in
your lap, and then what do youdo next?
Pate (07:23):
Well, I mean, the ideal thing is to get them to fall
asleep in your lap.
Puppies are easy to get to fallasleep, right?
you want to play with thembeforehand, release a lot of
energy, and then when they're,not tired like they're gonna
pass out or whatever, but youknow, when they're not as cray
(07:43):
cray, and they've run around abit.
Then you put them in your lapand, and then you get them to
fall asleep in your lap on theirback.
jme (07:52):
Well, even if they don't fall asleep, they'll get
relaxed.
They'll trust you.
They'll be relaxed.
So you want to practice thisalso before you even start to
try the nail trim.
You don't put them on theirback, get them to settle and
then do a nail trim right away.
That's not how, you got to getthem do that position first.
Get them to trust you in thatposition, then you're going to
start the nail trim,
Pate (08:11):
right?
jme (08:12):
And how do you proceed next?
Pate (08:13):
Well, there's a lot of treats involved, right?
And so you'll have like yourtreats next to you.
If you're like in a chair oryou're on the floor or whatever,
you're going to have the treatsnext to you that you can give
them treat every now and then.
I typically start with a Dremelwhen they're like two weeks old,
but most people don't do that.
But if you start with to getthem used to you handling them,
(08:39):
you have the clipper and you'llclip one nail and then you'll
give them a treat.
jme (08:44):
And yeah, praise them and tell them, Oh, that's so nice.
But praise them.
calmly like,
Pate (08:48):
yeah, you don't want to go like, Oh my God.
Good boy.
Good boy.
You know, you're likeinappropriate.
That's a good girl.
That's a good girl here.
Have a treat, you know?
So they, they're still getting apositive reward for that.
What just happened?
What was that weird sound orwhat was that weird pressure on
my paws, but,
jme (09:11):
and that's what it is, the pressure they don't, they
Pate (09:14):
sound associate with the pressure.
jme (09:16):
Okay.
Let's say that, you've done thisfor your puppy or kitten and
it's really no big deal and youcan kind of do it with one hand
and you know, you've perfectedthat.
But what if you have an adultdog that's a little scared?
And, if you, reach for their pawor grab their paw, they pull it
back.
And what are some of the stepsthat you would take at that
point?
Pate (09:36):
Well, you, actually, you actually want to teach them how
to shake.
So, you shake first with your,with their hand and your paw,
and you treat them.
And then, the more that you doit, the longer you hold on to
that paw.
So, eventually, they're used toyou.
(09:58):
That's how you kind of acclimatethem to holding on to their paw.
jme (10:02):
That's a pet peeve of mine, teaching a dog to shake or high
five because, well, because you,because then they start slapping
people.
So that's an interesting, that'snot something I thought of.
But I, I would say too, whenthey're laying down and they're
calmest, run your hands overtheir paws and kind of play with
their toes just gently.
Obviously don't keep going ifthey have like a visceral
(10:24):
reaction or whatever.
Because then you're gonna,you're gonna have a bigger
process.
But, it's okay if they pulltheir paw back, do it again.
If, if they pull their paw back,do it again.
And, and end on a good note, butjust gently touch them and don't
squeeze them.
Just touch them.
Pate (10:41):
Right.
And eventually you want for youto be able to grab, hold onto
the entire paw, and hold onto itfor a while.
And then they should bedesensitized enough at that
point.
And then you can start gettingout the tools.
And these are for the adultdogs.
Heath, my dog, came from asituation and he was, a bit
(11:02):
much, and getting him to notbite when you would touch his
paws or anything like that,because he could not be
vulnerable because at one pointhe was vulnerable and he was
hurt by somebody.
So his trust was broken.
Um, and with him, our bond gotpretty strong, very strong.
(11:26):
But he was still very, veryuncomfortable with having his
paws touched and he wouldactually put his mouth on my
wrist.
to be like, don't even do itbecause I will bite you.
So I mean, thanks for thewarning, you know, but you're
going to have to get your nailsclipped.
A lot of it was bribery, holdinghis hand and then giving him
(11:51):
treats.
But they may not be like, youknow, your typical.
dog treats that you purchase.
Like it's going to be peoplefood, like cheese, hot dog, you
know, like chicken breast or, orwhatever.
jme (12:05):
Well, and that brings up another point is if you are
working with an adult dog oreven a puppy, honestly, you
know, a three month old puppycould be a nightmare, but, if
you are working with that kindof dog, you're going to use a
muzzle, and a basket muzzle isprobably going to be the best
way to do it because.
Then they can pant and,
Pate (12:21):
and you can still give them treats
jme (12:22):
and express their anxiety and you can still give them
treats.
The kind that keep their mouthclosed, like at the vet, one,
you can still get bit that way.
And two, it makes them panicmore.
I mean, imagine if somebodystuffed their hand over your
face and you could only breathethrough your nose so if you can,
you know, acclimate them to abasket muzzle that it makes that
part fun too.
(12:44):
And I mean, okay, we did a thingabout normalizing muzzles.
I honestly believe everyoneshould train their dog to a
muzzle just in case you need to.
But anyway, that's anotherstory.
Pate (12:54):
Yeah, that's another podcast.
That's podcast number five.
jme (12:56):
And this can sometimes actually make your dog relax.
Because they realize they can'tuse their teeth on you.
Pate (13:02):
Yeah, they're totally incompetent.
Impotent.
jme (13:05):
Impotent.
Incompetent.
Yeah.
They're incompetent.
They're impotent.
Yeah.
So, so a muzzle may be a toolthat you're going to need to
think about.
It is not mean.
It is not cruel.
We have to make this a safething and getting your dog's
nails.
It's a requirement,
Pate (13:21):
right?
Well, and then if you, you know,like the people that can't trim
their dog's nails at home orwhatever, sometimes they go to a
vet or a groomer and a groomerwill muzzle your dog, you know?
So you might as well, and a vetwill muzzle your dog.
So, you know,
jme (13:36):
well, and sometimes.
Pate (13:37):
To get, you know, conditioned to that muzzle.
jme (13:40):
And sometimes it's just another person doing it.
Sometimes they just don't wantyou doing it.
And they'll do it fine forsomebody else.
So, you know, maybe take turnsin your home.
Maybe one person is the nailclipper person.
I just know that sometimes dogsact differently.
For example, Bill, the dog thatlives with my housemate
downstairs.
He can't go to any groomer.
No, he does not trust anybody.
(14:02):
And, my housemate cannot be inthe same room with him when
Bryan and I groom him, if sheis, he's too amped up.
And so she has to go in anotherroom and we groom him.
I still cannot do his nailsthough.
He gets so freaked out if youtouch his feet.
And so that's something for thevet, and I don't even want to
(14:23):
touch that.
I'm sure it's a terriblytraumatic experience when he
goes to the vet and he has to dothis.
But he was injured and paralyzedand like who knows what's going
on with his feet, right?
He could have neuropathy, hecould have a lot of things going
on.
But I If I put any slightpressure on his feet when I,
when I'm cutting or using theclippers, he freaks out.
Pate (14:44):
Yeah, I mean, all the puppies that I, have in my house
or whatever, I always start themon their back and I find that
even as adults with them, like,if you have them on their back,
like, kind of like their headright here, on their back and
you're there, you can clip theirfront nails pretty easily.
Yeah, Pate sits with her backagainst the wall and her legs
(15:06):
straight out and then, kind ofin a V around the dog's body and
the dog is like, if it's a bigdog, it's laying on the floor
with its head at kind of herbelly and then she can do that.
I've seen you do that so manytimes, but, sometimes the dogs
don't exactly participate.
What happens when that happens?
Like Duchess.
(15:28):
Oh, Dutchy, Dutchy, Dutchy.
She's a Frenchy.
So like that whole screamingthing, if you've seen that, I,
I, if you have not seen that puggetting its nails not even
trimmed.
It didn't even get trimmed yet.
'cause his mom or her mom islaughing so hard at her that she
just holds her paw and then she.
(15:48):
Sees the clipper in her mom'shand or his mom's hand and
starts screaming and the momstarts laughing and That that
reminds me of Duchess, you knowso with Duchess it would have to
be a two person nail clippingjob because someone has to hold
her Like kind of like hold heragainst you and the other person
(16:15):
isn't like kind of like anawkward, do I, do I stand, do I
sit, you know, like kind of inbetween to get her nails while
the person's holding her, likeif you're standing up holding
her, but now you can, you know,one person.
Um, now, well, no, not nowbecause Duchess hurt her back.
So we're back to, yeah, we'reback to that.
jme (16:37):
I was going to say it only took seven years or eight years
to get her to do it.
Pate (16:41):
But yeah, with Duchess, you would have to do, you'd have
to do like one paw and then shewould get mad and then.
You know, and then we're like,you come back of like an hour
later or whatever and then whenshe lost her grudge
jme (16:55):
And that's okay.
Like that is something that isokay like just try and get one
nail done at first if if they'rehaving a hard time and then
eventually you can do two nailsand Eventually you can do one
paw And, and that's okay, justtry and do it every day.
And so you're kind of just doingthis rotation.
And frankly, if it is somethingthat you do every day where you
(17:15):
just trim a little tiny bit off,they will get used to it.
One of the ways that we get thedogs used to it is we, you know,
we show them the clippers, welet them, or then the, what,
yeah, they're clippers.
Pate (17:27):
Right.
jme (17:27):
But I also think of clippers as like, so clippers,
the nail clippers.
You show them to the dog, letthem smell it, give them a
treat, touch it, like brushtheir paw with it, just like
gently over their paw, tap theirnail with it, and then actually
make the clicking noise withoutactually touching them.
(17:49):
So go click, click, and thengive them a treat, click, click.
Give them a treat and then thenafter you've done this a few
times and I'm talking like a fewtimes over a series of settings
not like a few times in a rowand then moving on if they're
still freaking out.
Pate (18:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jme (18:04):
This is this is desensitization.
This takes weeks.
months of consistency.
And then once you clip thatfirst nail, then you give them
the treat and you're like, Oh,so good.
Oh my goodness.
And then if that went well, thenyou can try again.
And, but yeah, so preparing themwith the tools and having those
tools available for them tosniff and look at so that it's
(18:26):
not just this scary thing thatyou bring out every time they're
going to get their nailstrimmed.
I mean, people do that withbaths, right?
Sometimes they say the word bathand the dog goes running.
And so, you know, we don't wantthis, this pug experience where
he sees the clippers and just,so it's very important to
desensitize them to the tools aswell.
(18:47):
So Stephanie who works withreactive dogs, she's method
canine in Idaho.
The nail trim routine as part oftheir bonding experience.
And so they do it every day,just a little clip off the, you
know, the nail every day.
And it's, not necessarily allthe nails.
It's just one little clip off ofeach nail or depending on how
the dog responds.
But by the end of the eight weektraining, the dogs get in their
(19:10):
nails, trim like a champ,they're falling asleep.
And this is a dog that wanted tokill you before that.
I wonder, you know what, youshould have, seen if she could
do that with, cash.
I didn't have him at the timelike there at the time.
So my dog, we're going to talkabout my black lab mix cash.
He is 75 pounds and he grew upoutside.
(19:30):
So for the first six monthsbefore we rescued him, he
basically lived outside.
No one touched him.
No one handled him.
Pate (19:38):
He has a fight for his food with, another litter.
I mean, well, he was a biggerlitter, so that was, and,
jme (19:45):
but no one touched his feet.
This is very taboo.
And even by the time he was,seven or eight months or
something like that, I wasstruggling with doing his nails.
We had a groomer that wouldcome, she did the suspension
where she's kind of suspendinghim.
He's still screaming bloodymurder.
Anytime Bryan and I try to doit, it's like a scene from
(20:07):
Dexter where like this is notgood, because he moves so much
and we've literally triedeverything and Brian has to use
all his strength to kind of likehold him down, which is
terrible.
Pate (20:16):
Cause he has a panic.
It's, it's like a, a panicattack and he just can't think.
jme (20:21):
Yeah.
And Bryan like hurt himselftrying to, you know, so, and
this is with a muzzle.
This is with CBD.
We even tried nitrous,
Pate (20:29):
Yeah, yeah, nitrous, wasn't it gas or something?
jme (20:32):
Yeah, so in the pet care magazines, they're like, does,
does your pet have trouble?
And, and it's just like a littlecanister and the, the face mask.
And it didn't affect him at all.
And so it got to the pointwhere.
I had to take him to the vet andeven sedating him.
So giving him some Trazodone orsomething like that, that still
(20:52):
isn't enough.
And the last few times I've hadhis nails trimmed, they've had
to anesthetize him.
Like he's going into surgery.
And this is terrible.
This is terribly dangerous.
You don't want to put your dogunder every six months.
But Jordan had him for a whileas a foster and She started
working with him a little bit,but even she couldn't even get
(21:13):
to doing like one nail or morethan one nail and then that was
it.
And so, it might take me a yearto go through this, but
honestly, I think it's easierand better for him if he just
goes to the vet.
Pate (21:27):
Less traumatic.
jme (21:28):
Yeah, goes to the vet.
And he likes the vet.
He doesn't mind them.
Pate (21:31):
'cause he doesn't know what they're doing to him.
jme (21:33):
Right.
And so, yeah,
Pate (21:35):
'Cause he's sleeping.
jme (21:36):
He wakes up and he is like, oh, okay.
And I, I do other things, like Iplay with him on our stone
floors, I play with the laserand try and get him to run back
and forth and skid and, take himon the sidewalks and stuff like
that.
But his nails do grow reallyfast.
And so, so I have a, the extremesituation.
Where there wasn't much I coulddo about it, and now I have to
(21:57):
deal with it.
But, you know, if you do have adog that isn't that reactive or
that unresponsive to it, then,you can work up to these things.
And, you know, especially ifcost is gonna be a thing for
you, and, doing it yourself isgonna be better and easier, in
most cases.
But, you just have to bepatient.
And, It's not that I'm notpatient, but I have other
(22:21):
battles that I'm fighting andthis isn't one of them that I'm
going to.
So, I've pretty much given up onit, but I, I don't think that
needs to be true for otherpeople.
And, and this is the first dogI've ever seen that has that
extreme of a reaction.
Pate (22:34):
I mean, you can pay a vet to clip your dog's nails as
opposed to doing it home.
And they may not need to besedated, but I mean, they do do
the sedation kind of like whenthey, sedate a dog for x rays.
It's the same concept becausethat they're obviously not okay
with being still enough for an xray and when a dog is thrashing
(22:56):
and stuff like that the onething that you really really
really need to be careful aboutbecause this is gonna affect
your dog allowing you andtrusting you to do their nails
is to make sure that you don'tget too close to the quick
because that hurts I mean and sosome dogs are going to have such
a fear Of expecting pain becauseyou or someone else have clipped
(23:21):
them one too many times and,then when they don't trust you,
they're not going, they're like,look, I let you do it.
I let you do it a few times andit hurt.
So this, no, I don't like beinghurt.
And you should be able tounderstand that because like
when you get your own nail.
I mean, not even like cutting itat the quick, but sometimes when
(23:43):
your nail bends back, I mean,that hurts like a bitch and
then, you know, and if anyonehas ever had their nail ripped
off, that hurts like a bitch andit does well and it can be hard
because a lot of dogs have blacknails and you can't really see
the quick, so this is why Unlessyou have them on your back and
you've acclimated them to be ontheir back.
jme (24:05):
Then you can see it, but this is why going and doing it
more often and taking off alittle bit each time is way
better than waiting and thentrying to take off a lot because
the quick continues to grow.
So the longer you let the nailgrow, the longer the quick gets,
and therefore the less you willever be able to take off ever
(24:27):
again.
So when you have the opportunityto be very proactive about it.
Please do because it will itwill be of a benefit to you and
your dog and once the quickshave gotten so long It can be
really really hard to push themto push them back.
Pate (24:42):
Yeah, I mean it can be done, but you know, it takes
time Another position that isgood that we use on our boarding
dogs because they're adults Whenyou have them on their four
feet, it's almost like a horsemaneuver, right?
Because you pull them back, youpull the leg, they're standing
(25:03):
in front of you.
And if anyone has horses,they're used to farriers or
whatever.
jme (25:08):
Yeah, they lift up their foot.
Pate (25:10):
Yeah, they lift up their foot.
So, what you want to do is liftup their foot from behind.
So, this works with the frontand the back.
Obviously, you're on your knees.
You know, yeah,
jme (25:21):
well and now you're looking at the pads on their feet.
You're looking at the bottom oftheir foot
Pate (25:25):
And then that way you can look at the quicks the,
obviously the white nail quicks,easy to see, but the black nail
quicks are also visible fromthat kind of position and then
that, that you can clip reallyquick.
jme (25:38):
Something else I noticed too is, turning the clipper
sideways on the nail.
Pate (25:41):
That actually causes more pressure on there quick.
jme (25:44):
Really?
Yeah, don't do that
Pate (25:49):
I Can't cuz it's squeezing it, you know, so it's squeezing
it this way Yeah.
jme (25:56):
Interesting.
Okay, I've been doing it wrongall my life.
But what I was going to say.
Pate (26:01):
That's why Cash don't like it.
jme (26:02):
No, that's not true.
What I was going to say thoughis you always want to make sure
you have like sharp tools too.
Pate (26:09):
Oh yeah.
jme (26:09):
If your tools start to get dull and you're pinching their
nails, that is going to hurt andthat's going to cause them to
not want you to do it anymore.
Cause most of the time it's thepressure that freaks them out.
Pate (26:21):
Oh, yeah.
And the thing is, the pressure,and if you hit that quick, then
it's tool, pressure, quick,pain.
And then they're going toassociate the tool with the
pressure, and the pressure withthe pain, and then, yeah.
jme (26:39):
Then you've done it.
Pate (26:40):
Exactly.
They can tolerate the pressure.
But once you get that paininvolved, then they're like, not
a fan.
And so I also acclimate mypuppies to the Dremel because I
like the Dremel because of blacknails.
(27:00):
Right.
And that takes a little bit moreacclimation because it buzzes.
And it has that motor noise,right?
jme (27:08):
Yeah, it vibrates, so it feels tingly.
Pate (27:10):
Yeah, and then, and then, and there is this one Dremel
that's out there that'spromoting that.
It's got a special motor, soit's quiet or whatever.
And I'm just like, ah, is thisfor real?
Do I really trust Instagram andFacebook ads?
Probably not.
I don't know.
It's probably a gimmick.
(27:31):
So I haven't like delved intothat, but the one that I like to
use, the one that I promote toeveryone who's interested in a
Dremel, and you should pay me.
No, I'm joking.
There's one on Chewy's.
That is, it has like almost likeit's like a metal like kind of
diamond top.
jme (27:50):
I've seen it around.
Pate (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, and it's rechargeable.
So I really like therechargeable part of it.
jme (27:56):
Yeah, that's good.
Pate (27:56):
But I like the metal grinding tip as opposed to some
of the PET Dremels have.
jme (28:05):
Sandpaper?
Pate (28:06):
Yeah, you, it's like you, it's around.
thing.
It makes it go around, spins.
Yeah, it makes it spin.
But then you attach thatspinner.
You, you put like, it's a roundsandpaper and I don't like those
because the sandpaper moves upand down.
(28:26):
And they don't last that long.
Whereas like the metal one we'vehad for two years now.
If they would stop losing it,
jme (28:33):
we might have to put that in the transcript of this.
Show.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Pate (28:38):
Yeah, we got it off Chewy's.
Okay.
Chewy's also donates.
jme (28:43):
Yeah, Chewy's is, Chewy's is very good to us.
They invited us for a Christmasevent and they donated, their
time and some supplies Chewy'sgood to rescues and shelters.
Pate (28:54):
Right, and if your order is wrong, for whatever reason,
they'll send you the appropriateorder and then tell you to
donate the incorrect one to ashelter or a rescue.
Yeah.
Which is great.
jme (29:06):
That's a good, a good customer service policy.
Pate (29:09):
Yeah.
So anyway, this Dremel does makenoise.
So you do have to acclimate themto the noise at first.
jme (29:15):
And how do you do that?
Pate (29:16):
I just have it.
Hanging around.
Turn it on just don't evenapproach the dog's feet.
You don't, don't touch theirfeet yet.
Just get'em used to that motor.
Let them, you know, you don'twanna let them sniff it when
it's on.
jme (29:31):
No.
Pate (29:31):
You let them sniff the tool and then you give'em a
treat and then you'll turn it onand then, treat them to
desensitize'em to the noisebefore.
You apply that buzzing pressurevibration to their nails.
And the reason why I like theDremel is because you are far
(29:51):
less likely to cut the quick andmake them bleed than you are
with the clippers.
And also the Dremel you canYeah.
Because like when you clip, it'slike, it's sharp.
jme (30:06):
Yeah.
Especially like if you arewearing shorts in the summertime
or something, it's like clippingis always good, but then it's,
then there's the, until theywear them rounded and then
you're like, yeah, and most dogswon't let you sit there and file
their nails because that takestoo long and stuff.
So the Dremel can be a reallygood tool.
Pate (30:22):
Yeah.
So yeah, I actually love theDremel.
jme (30:25):
Well, and we also use those baby tiny little nail clippers
for puppies and kittens orespecially kittens, I guess
They're they're only like acouple inches.
Pate (30:35):
Oh like the cat clippers.
Yeah.
Yeah, very tiny.
We use those for the puppies
jme (30:39):
We use them for really small puppies and kittens
Pate (30:42):
and then also like for puppies and kittens If you don't
have one of those cat clippers,you can use your own clipper.
jme (30:48):
Oh, yeah, like people.
Yeah people clippers Yep, I'vedone that before.
Pate (30:51):
Yeah Those are all right.
It's just, I like the scissoreffect of the little cat
clippers for the small puppiesand stuff like that.
And then the, the Dremel, we douse the Dremel with the boarding
clients as well.
And Duchess, Duchess is like,Oh, hell no.
(31:12):
When she heard the Dremel.
So yeah, Duchess doesn't getDremel.
jme (31:16):
We should say that Duchess is a dog that we've known since
she was about a year old.
So she's, an OG for sure.
For our daycare.
For our daycare.
And so, you know, we love thisdog and, and she knows, she
knows us.
We know her.
So she still comes to stay withus at our kennels for boarding
and
Pate (31:34):
with her new baby sister.
jme (31:35):
Yes, that we adopted.
Pate (31:36):
That was my foster.
Mm hmm that I graciously allowedChad to have.
jme (31:41):
Yes, another another Frenchie as well.
So, yeah, you know, maybe babyFrenchies don't come in to
rescue that often, but when theydo.
We, we already knew who, who wewere going to ask.
All right.
Pate (31:52):
So yes.
So Duchess, Yeah, we don't use aDremel on Duchess.
Duchess is, she's royalty.
So she is treated with, glovedhands.
jme (32:03):
I will say whenever she would walk into the daycare,
she's a very round Frenchie,like a potato.
And she, she wanders into thedaycare, and I would always
hear, Here she comes, missAmerica every time.
And I like, I don't know why,but Yeah.
I was just thinking like,because here comes our princess.
Pate (32:23):
Exactly.
Because she walks down like youwould, if she had a hand, she'd
be doing this Yeah.
She'd be doing this.
Yeah.
You know, and then her faceisn't a smile, it's a, yeah.
You know, that's, um,
jme (32:34):
like a subtle smirk.
Pate (32:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm Yeah.
Like, she's like, you know, youknow you love me.
Mm-hmm You know, you do.
And, uh, yeah.
So that's Dutchy.
So when it comes to the nails,she, she gets treated with the
kid gloves for sure.
But you don't have to do thatwith every dog, especially if
you acclimate them.
But yeah, I mean, some dogs do,like jme said, they, they do
(32:58):
need a muzzle.
I mean, do it really quick.
You know, some dogs need twopeople.
Someone needs to apply thetreats while someone clips or
dremels, you know.
jme (33:08):
You do a surprising number of, of nail trims by yourself
though.
Pate (33:11):
Oh, I do.
jme (33:12):
I've always been surprised.
Honestly, I don't like doingnail trims.
When we offered them at the, atthe daycare, I was like, I don't
want to do it.
Like, and I don't know what itis.
I just don't like doing it.
I'll do it if I have to, and Ido it for my own dogs, but.
It's just not my favorite thingto do.
But some people really lovedoing it.
Yeah.
And I, I don't know.
Pate (33:31):
Yeah.
And I don't, I don't mind it, Ido say that my tool of
preference is the Dremel, butnot all dogs, if you don't train
them to it, are accepting ofthat motor and the vibration.
I do really like the Dremelbecause of the the quick.
With the black nails and that itrounds out the, you know, and
(33:54):
then some people will do acombination, they'll do a quick
clip with the clippers and thendo a quick little buzz with the
Dremel just to get the edgesoff, that's good because
sometimes if you've got time,the Dremel is great, but if you
have a dog who doesn't acceptbeing in the a certain position
for very long and you want to doit quick and you need to do it
(34:17):
quick, clip in real quick andthen, smoothing out the edges
with the Dremel is timeeffective.
And if you're confident that youwon't hit the quick, yeah, you
know.
Well, I think, I think that'swhy People are afraid, not
afraid, they're just a littlebit, they would have other
people do the nails, justbecause they don't want to clip
(34:38):
their dog.
And I do understand that, mostdogs will forgive you, they just
won't like it, of course, butthey'll forgive you, And there
was one of Meatball's claws thatwas always, I always, No matter
what I did, how little Iclipped, it got the quick and so
I think every nail trim involvedgetting the quick because his
(35:00):
nails grew so fast, but maybethat's part of why I don't like
doing it because I know thateven as careful as I can be that
sometimes those quicks arelonger, some are longer than
others and even if I'm taking alittle bit, it's that guilt,
jme (35:15):
Yeah, I guess so.
I don't know.
I just
Pate (35:17):
you feel bad when they
jme (35:19):
I don't like taking showers.
I don't like eating I don't likea lot of things that take my
time So I guess it probablyisn't surprising that I don't
want to trim nails.
Yeah I've had a nail go in mymouth
Pate (35:31):
I've had a nail hit me in the face.
jme (35:35):
No, it went right in my mouth Yeah, which reminds me of
a really funny story.
It's not a nail trimming story,but I was, you know, fostering
and babysitting some dogs andprobably I had 10 little dogs
and they were all on the couchwith me on my lap and one of
them was kind of like sitting onmy lap but decided to kind of
back up my, or somehow was nearmy face and it was a pug I
(36:02):
think.
And it backed its butthole rightinto my teeth while I was
smiling.
Pate (36:07):
Oh my god!
jme (36:09):
And, and I, like, so I'm smiling, and then the dog backs
up, and its butthole Yeah, itmade contact with my teeth.
Pate (36:19):
Oh, nasty.
jme (36:20):
And so then the next picture's like Yeah, that's a
good story.
Don't put buttholes on yourteeth.
Pate (36:29):
So gross.
All right.
Well, yeah.
And then another thing whenyou're doing nails, you should
always, always before you evenclip your dog's nails, you have
to have something to stop theblood flow because if you don't,
and you clip clip that quick,it's like Dexter, like, yeah,
(36:52):
it's a Dexter.
Murder scene, you know, there'sblood splattered everywhere.
jme (36:57):
Yeah, and if your dog doesn't like you holding their
paws either, you're gonna have ahard time trying to dab it with
a paper towel or something.
Pate (37:04):
Well, and a paper towel won't make it stop.
jme (37:06):
No, it won't make it stop.
Pate (37:07):
It won't, it won't, It doesn't clot quick enough, so
you have to have something thatwill,
jme (37:12):
it's called styptic powder.
Pate (37:14):
Yeah, you can get styptic powder.
Some people use, what is it,corn starch?
Yeah.
jme (37:19):
That gets all over your house.
Pate (37:21):
Does it?
The corn starch, uh, no, I mean,yeah.
I mean the styptic powder kindof looks like the corn starch
because it's yellow.
jme (37:29):
Yeah, it works well though.
Pate (37:30):
Yeah, and it works so quickly.
And normally what I've done, isstyptic powder in the, the,
jme (37:37):
The lid.
Pate (37:37):
Yeah, and then I'll put the dog's paw in the styptic
powder and dab it in the powder.
Some people will take a pinchand then try to put it on the
dog's, bleeding nail and no, Ialways, I always like dab it in
the lid that seems to coat itreally well
jme (37:53):
well, plus you don't waste so much and you don't
contaminate the container.
Pate (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So before you do nails, youdefinitely should have, styptic
powder that.
You can get from pet stores, andit's on Amazon.
Like you can get everything onAmazon.
jme (38:09):
It's only a couple bucks too.
I mean, it's not a lot.
Pate (38:12):
But go to your pet stores instead of Amazon because Jeff
Bezos has enough money.
jme (38:16):
So, I made a post, I made a post the other day and this
woman told me that I, I'm goingto be sued for libel for saying
that, um, Jeff Bezos and MarkZuckerberg aren't very
charitable.
Pate (38:30):
What?
Really?
jme (38:31):
Yeah, and I was like Oh, that's so funny.
I would die to go into it.
Pate (38:35):
Really?
jme (38:36):
Yeah.
She's like, you want to reviseyour posts because you are
making assumptions.
And I'm like, I'm not makingassumptions.
I run a charity.
And both of those companiesstopped supporting charities.
And it's hurt us by tens ofthousands of dollars.
I'm not sure how that's nottrue.
But I was like, Can you imagineif they really did sue me?
(38:58):
Like going to court and likelittle old me running an animal
rescue.
Pate (39:03):
Here's my five dollars.
jme (39:04):
Yeah, like some big whatever powerhouse trying to
trying to shut me down.
Like I was just like, oh my god,I would welcome that.
Pate (39:12):
Right.
Yeah.
jme (39:12):
So we're wrapping up nail trims.
I'm jme.
Pate (39:15):
I'm Pate.
Hopefully
jme (39:17):
you've learned something and if you haven't or you have
questions, email us at rescueshit at motleyzoo.
org
Pate (39:26):
or if you would like to have any tips on anything else,
email us at
jme (39:32):
rescue shit at motleyzoo.
org
Pate (39:35):
again.
We're signing off.
This is Pate.
jme (39:38):
I'm jme.
Pate (39:39):
Rock on.
jme (39:40):
Rescue on.
Hi, I'm jme.
Pate (00:01):
And I'm Pate.
This is Motley Zoo AnimalRescue.
jme (00:04):
And our podcast, Rescue Shit.
Pate (00:09):
Need that squeaker.
For real.
jme (00:10):
I was thinking there was more to it than that.
See, I don't know why I'm caughtoff guard every single time.
Pate (00:15):
For what?
jme (00:16):
I was waiting for, for us to go back and forth again.
Saying something and I'm like,like, we just introduced
ourselves.
Right.
I'm, I think I'm just.
Dumb.
Pate (00:28):
You're blonde.
Am I allowed to say that or isthat not PC?
jme (00:33):
I'm sure it's not PC, but I don't really care.
Okay.
Today we are going to talk aboutnail trimming.
And this is something that maybe
Pate (00:42):
I'm sorry.
I'm thinking about that pug thatscreams.
jme (00:47):
Yes, I know.
Pate (00:48):
Oh my God.
jme (00:53):
Like, it sounds like Walter, the Frenchie,
Pate (00:55):
like Duchess, Duchess screams.
jme (00:58):
Yeah.
And I, I was going to ask youabout her.
I was going to ask you to useher as an example, but, so nail
trimming is probably somethingthat instills fear in a lot of
pet owners and it's somethingthat they don't usually want to
do themselves.
And that's totally fine.
But it's not because you can't,There are some challenges,
(01:18):
especially when you get an adultdog that hasn't had good
practice before that.
But why don't we start off justby talking about if you do have
a puppy or a kitten, and you'restarting off fresh, what should
you do, to prepare them for thefuture?
Pate (01:34):
Well, you definitely want to handle them a lot.
You want to handle them indifferent situations, like body
positions.
Body positions, yeah.
And, what I always do with mypuppies, and my kittens
actually, is I'll have them inmy lap with their back to my
stomach, and I'll hold theirfeet and we'll play, you know?
(01:54):
I'll just play with their feet.
Both their front feet and theirback feet.
And then you slide them downinto a laying down position on
your lap.
And they have to be comfortable.
Some dogs will struggle and thenthey'll try to flip over.
But you just have to, It's notan alpha role by any means.
(02:14):
I did have someone say somethingto me once when I had a puppy on
their back and they tried tostruggle out and they were
crying and I was like, you know,petting his belly but I didn't
allow him to get up.
It was a training thing.
jme (02:29):
Well, that was his tantrum in the grocery store.
Pate (02:31):
Exactly.
jme (02:32):
And if you let him go, he would get the treat.
He would learn.
Yeah.
And so then the next timesomebody tried to handle him, he
would know that if he strugglesor squeals, Mm hmm.
They'll stop.
Pate (02:45):
Right.
jme (02:45):
This is the start of terrible, bad patterns.
That was a person who had verystrict and specific ideas of
what training was like.
But did not actually have,actually have life experience.
Yeah.
So, the difference betweentextbook and life experience.
Pate (03:02):
But then that's gonna be a lot of people.
jme (03:03):
That's a lot of people, that is.
Whenever I have that situationwhere I have a puppy or a kitten
that's panicking, I, I hold themand they're struggling a little
bit and I tell everybody theyneed to calm down before I let
them go or else they will learnthis is how to get down.
Pate (03:19):
Right.
If you struggle, then I'll putyou down.
jme (03:22):
Yeah.
And I'm like, so it might seemweird, but I'm teaching them
something here and it's veryimportant to make them
handleable and adoptable.
Pate (03:28):
Right.
jme (03:29):
So I just talk through it and tell people what I'm doing.
Pate (03:32):
Right.
And then with the puppies, youknow, and the kittens, when
they're very young, not a lot ofpeople are going to have their
puppies and kittens as young asI do.
But I will give you a puppy thathas a good foundation on this
because I will take my babiesand then I'll put them like in
the crook of my arm and thenthey will be on their back.
(03:53):
You know, kind of like you holda human baby and then that way
they get used to that.
They know they're secure and sothey don't struggle when they're
on their back.
And I find that when I do thenail trims when they're babies,
when they're on their back, it'sso much easier.
And then, you know, obviouslyit's a lot of reward when
(04:14):
they're on their back, you givethem treats when you're playing
with their feet, you do thisconstantly.
And you look at their mouth andeverything like that.
Everything has to be in aplayful manner, it's a little
bit of stress sometimes becausethey're like, what are you
doing?
But you can stress out an animalto a certain extent.
(04:35):
Well that's how.
Everybody develops.
That's how you get past.
I mean, isn't this part of whathumans are struggling with right
now?
Everybody wants to becomfortable and nobody wants to
be challenged and yeah, and thenyour anxiety just grows and
grows and grows because youryour Ability to be uncomfortable
gets less and less and less.
And so we're trying to teachthem that being uncomfortable
(04:59):
with new experiences in thebeginning as a puppy is Will
lead to good things later andthat it won't be a uncomfortable
experience if someone picks themup awkwardly or when the vet
starts poking in their ears orthey have to have their ears
clean.
So, it is, it is very importantto do that handling.
Yeah.
(05:19):
Cause you're acclimating them orwhat is it, you're desensitizing
them to certain stimuli that'snot typical.
In nature, I guess, because,
jme (05:31):
but they're going to have to go to the vet and they're
going to have to have thesethings done.
So you may as well make it agame when they're younger.
If you can, you know, if youhave your dog, when they're
younger or a cat, make it a gameand just make it so that nothing
really feels that uncomfortableto them.
Pate (05:47):
Right.
Or if it's uncomfortable, well,you know, it's fine for me to be
uncomfortable because eventuallyit's not that big of a deal,
right?
jme (05:55):
Once they work through it, then it's not uncomfortable for
them anymore.
Pate (05:58):
And you keep doing it.
jme (05:59):
This idea though is especially important for a dog
that is of a certain type thatneeds to go to the groomer.
You need to start brushing,playing with their paws,
sticking, you know, fingers intheir ears gently.
You need to start doing all thethings that the groomer is going
to have to do or you are goingto have a ton of trouble.
(06:19):
Finding a groomer that will workwith your dog and it is
medically necessary for thosekinds of dogs to get groomed.
This is not a vanity issue.
It is a requirement.
So don't forget to do that kindof thing and make it a game.
Again, everything you do withyour puppy and your kitten, you
(06:40):
can make it a game and you canmake it fun.
And honestly, when I'm handlingkittens, like at an event.
The more kind of manhandling Ido, which, you know, I'm like
playing with them and turningthem over on their back.
I'm doing stuff to them.
The more I do that, the more,the calmer they get and the more
they trust me.
Yeah.
And so I, I'm always like, youjust got a manhandle on like,
(07:01):
you know, and I'm sure peoplethink it's crazy, but what are
you doing?
You have to, you really do haveto do that and they will be more
comfortable later in life.
Pate (07:10):
Right.
jme (07:10):
So how do you start actually, you know, teaching
your dog how to, sit still for,for nail trims?
So you, you've got maybe a puppyor a kitten on their back, in
your lap, and then what do youdo next?
Pate (07:23):
Well, I mean, the ideal thing is to get them to fall
asleep in your lap.
Puppies are easy to get to fallasleep, right?
you want to play with thembeforehand, release a lot of
energy, and then when they're,not tired like they're gonna
pass out or whatever, but youknow, when they're not as cray
(07:43):
cray, and they've run around abit.
Then you put them in your lapand, and then you get them to
fall asleep in your lap on theirback.
jme (07:52):
Well, even if they don't fall asleep, they'll get
relaxed.
They'll trust you.
They'll be relaxed.
So you want to practice thisalso before you even start to
try the nail trim.
You don't put them on theirback, get them to settle and
then do a nail trim right away.
That's not how, you got to getthem do that position first.
Get them to trust you in thatposition, then you're going to
start the nail trim,
Pate (08:11):
right?
jme (08:12):
And how do you proceed next?
Pate (08:13):
Well, there's a lot of treats involved, right?
And so you'll have like yourtreats next to you.
If you're like in a chair oryou're on the floor or whatever,
you're going to have the treatsnext to you that you can give
them treat every now and then.
I typically start with a Dremelwhen they're like two weeks old,
but most people don't do that.
But if you start with to getthem used to you handling them,
(08:39):
you have the clipper and you'llclip one nail and then you'll
give them a treat.
jme (08:44):
And yeah, praise them and tell them, Oh, that's so nice.
But praise them.
calmly like,
Pate (08:48):
yeah, you don't want to go like, Oh my God.
Good boy.
Good boy.
You know, you're likeinappropriate.
That's a good girl.
That's a good girl here.
Have a treat, you know?
So they, they're still getting apositive reward for that.
What just happened?
What was that weird sound orwhat was that weird pressure on
my paws, but,
jme (09:11):
and that's what it is, the pressure they don't, they
Pate (09:14):
sound associate with the pressure.
jme (09:16):
Okay.
Let's say that, you've done thisfor your puppy or kitten and
it's really no big deal and youcan kind of do it with one hand
and you know, you've perfectedthat.
But what if you have an adultdog that's a little scared?
And, if you, reach for their pawor grab their paw, they pull it
back.
And what are some of the stepsthat you would take at that
point?
Pate (09:36):
Well, you, actually, you actually want to teach them how
to shake.
So, you shake first with your,with their hand and your paw,
and you treat them.
And then, the more that you doit, the longer you hold on to
that paw.
So, eventually, they're used toyou.
(09:58):
That's how you kind of acclimatethem to holding on to their paw.
jme (10:02):
That's a pet peeve of mine, teaching a dog to shake or high
five because, well, because you,because then they start slapping
people.
So that's an interesting, that'snot something I thought of.
But I, I would say too, whenthey're laying down and they're
calmest, run your hands overtheir paws and kind of play with
their toes just gently.
Obviously don't keep going ifthey have like a visceral
(10:24):
reaction or whatever.
Because then you're gonna,you're gonna have a bigger
process.
But, it's okay if they pulltheir paw back, do it again.
If, if they pull their paw back,do it again.
And, and end on a good note, butjust gently touch them and don't
squeeze them.
Just touch them.
Pate (10:41):
Right.
And eventually you want for youto be able to grab, hold onto
the entire paw, and hold onto itfor a while.
And then they should bedesensitized enough at that
point.
And then you can start gettingout the tools.
And these are for the adultdogs.
Heath, my dog, came from asituation and he was, a bit
(11:02):
much, and getting him to notbite when you would touch his
paws or anything like that,because he could not be
vulnerable because at one pointhe was vulnerable and he was
hurt by somebody.
So his trust was broken.
Um, and with him, our bond gotpretty strong, very strong.
(11:26):
But he was still very, veryuncomfortable with having his
paws touched and he wouldactually put his mouth on my
wrist.
to be like, don't even do itbecause I will bite you.
So I mean, thanks for thewarning, you know, but you're
going to have to get your nailsclipped.
A lot of it was bribery, holdinghis hand and then giving him
(11:51):
treats.
But they may not be like, youknow, your typical.
dog treats that you purchase.
Like it's going to be peoplefood, like cheese, hot dog, you
know, like chicken breast or, orwhatever.
jme (12:05):
Well, and that brings up another point is if you are
working with an adult dog oreven a puppy, honestly, you
know, a three month old puppycould be a nightmare, but, if
you are working with that kindof dog, you're going to use a
muzzle, and a basket muzzle isprobably going to be the best
way to do it because.
Then they can pant and,
Pate (12:21):
and you can still give them treats
jme (12:22):
and express their anxiety and you can still give them
treats.
The kind that keep their mouthclosed, like at the vet, one,
you can still get bit that way.
And two, it makes them panicmore.
I mean, imagine if somebodystuffed their hand over your
face and you could only breathethrough your nose so if you can,
you know, acclimate them to abasket muzzle that it makes that
part fun too.
(12:44):
And I mean, okay, we did a thingabout normalizing muzzles.
I honestly believe everyoneshould train their dog to a
muzzle just in case you need to.
But anyway, that's anotherstory.
Pate (12:54):
Yeah, that's another podcast.
That's podcast number five.
jme (12:56):
And this can sometimes actually make your dog relax.
Because they realize they can'tuse their teeth on you.
Pate (13:02):
Yeah, they're totally incompetent.
Impotent.
jme (13:05):
Impotent.
Incompetent.
Yeah.
They're incompetent.
They're impotent.
Yeah.
So, so a muzzle may be a toolthat you're going to need to
think about.
It is not mean.
It is not cruel.
We have to make this a safething and getting your dog's
nails.
It's a requirement,
Pate (13:21):
right?
Well, and then if you, you know,like the people that can't trim
their dog's nails at home orwhatever, sometimes they go to a
vet or a groomer and a groomerwill muzzle your dog, you know?
So you might as well, and a vetwill muzzle your dog.
So, you know,
jme (13:36):
well, and sometimes.
Pate (13:37):
To get, you know, conditioned to that muzzle.
jme (13:40):
And sometimes it's just another person doing it.
Sometimes they just don't wantyou doing it.
And they'll do it fine forsomebody else.
So, you know, maybe take turnsin your home.
Maybe one person is the nailclipper person.
I just know that sometimes dogsact differently.
For example, Bill, the dog thatlives with my housemate
downstairs.
He can't go to any groomer.
No, he does not trust anybody.
(14:02):
And, my housemate cannot be inthe same room with him when
Bryan and I groom him, if sheis, he's too amped up.
And so she has to go in anotherroom and we groom him.
I still cannot do his nailsthough.
He gets so freaked out if youtouch his feet.
And so that's something for thevet, and I don't even want to
(14:23):
touch that.
I'm sure it's a terriblytraumatic experience when he
goes to the vet and he has to dothis.
But he was injured and paralyzedand like who knows what's going
on with his feet, right?
He could have neuropathy, hecould have a lot of things going
on.
But I If I put any slightpressure on his feet when I,
when I'm cutting or using theclippers, he freaks out.
Pate (14:44):
Yeah, I mean, all the puppies that I, have in my house
or whatever, I always start themon their back and I find that
even as adults with them, like,if you have them on their back,
like, kind of like their headright here, on their back and
you're there, you can clip theirfront nails pretty easily.
Yeah, Pate sits with her backagainst the wall and her legs
(15:06):
straight out and then, kind ofin a V around the dog's body and
the dog is like, if it's a bigdog, it's laying on the floor
with its head at kind of herbelly and then she can do that.
I've seen you do that so manytimes, but, sometimes the dogs
don't exactly participate.
What happens when that happens?
Like Duchess.
(15:28):
Oh, Dutchy, Dutchy, Dutchy.
She's a Frenchy.
So like that whole screamingthing, if you've seen that, I,
I, if you have not seen that puggetting its nails not even
trimmed.
It didn't even get trimmed yet.
'cause his mom or her mom islaughing so hard at her that she
just holds her paw and then she.
(15:48):
Sees the clipper in her mom'shand or his mom's hand and
starts screaming and the momstarts laughing and That that
reminds me of Duchess, you knowso with Duchess it would have to
be a two person nail clippingjob because someone has to hold
her Like kind of like hold heragainst you and the other person
(16:15):
isn't like kind of like anawkward, do I, do I stand, do I
sit, you know, like kind of inbetween to get her nails while
the person's holding her, likeif you're standing up holding
her, but now you can, you know,one person.
Um, now, well, no, not nowbecause Duchess hurt her back.
So we're back to, yeah, we'reback to that.
jme (16:37):
I was going to say it only took seven years or eight years
to get her to do it.
Pate (16:41):
But yeah, with Duchess, you would have to do, you'd have
to do like one paw and then shewould get mad and then.
You know, and then we're like,you come back of like an hour
later or whatever and then whenshe lost her grudge
jme (16:55):
And that's okay.
Like that is something that isokay like just try and get one
nail done at first if if they'rehaving a hard time and then
eventually you can do two nailsand Eventually you can do one
paw And, and that's okay, justtry and do it every day.
And so you're kind of just doingthis rotation.
And frankly, if it is somethingthat you do every day where you
(17:15):
just trim a little tiny bit off,they will get used to it.
One of the ways that we get thedogs used to it is we, you know,
we show them the clippers, welet them, or then the, what,
yeah, they're clippers.
Pate (17:27):
Right.
jme (17:27):
But I also think of clippers as like, so clippers,
the nail clippers.
You show them to the dog, letthem smell it, give them a
treat, touch it, like brushtheir paw with it, just like
gently over their paw, tap theirnail with it, and then actually
make the clicking noise withoutactually touching them.
(17:49):
So go click, click, and thengive them a treat, click, click.
Give them a treat and then thenafter you've done this a few
times and I'm talking like a fewtimes over a series of settings
not like a few times in a rowand then moving on if they're
still freaking out.
Pate (18:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
jme (18:04):
This is this is desensitization.
This takes weeks.
months of consistency.
And then once you clip thatfirst nail, then you give them
the treat and you're like, Oh,so good.
Oh my goodness.
And then if that went well, thenyou can try again.
And, but yeah, so preparing themwith the tools and having those
tools available for them tosniff and look at so that it's
(18:26):
not just this scary thing thatyou bring out every time they're
going to get their nailstrimmed.
I mean, people do that withbaths, right?
Sometimes they say the word bathand the dog goes running.
And so, you know, we don't wantthis, this pug experience where
he sees the clippers and just,so it's very important to
desensitize them to the tools aswell.
(18:47):
So Stephanie who works withreactive dogs, she's method
canine in Idaho.
The nail trim routine as part oftheir bonding experience.
And so they do it every day,just a little clip off the, you
know, the nail every day.
And it's, not necessarily allthe nails.
It's just one little clip off ofeach nail or depending on how
the dog responds.
But by the end of the eight weektraining, the dogs get in their
(19:10):
nails, trim like a champ,they're falling asleep.
And this is a dog that wanted tokill you before that.
I wonder, you know what, youshould have, seen if she could
do that with, cash.
I didn't have him at the timelike there at the time.
So my dog, we're going to talkabout my black lab mix cash.
He is 75 pounds and he grew upoutside.
(19:30):
So for the first six monthsbefore we rescued him, he
basically lived outside.
No one touched him.
No one handled him.
Pate (19:38):
He has a fight for his food with, another litter.
I mean, well, he was a biggerlitter, so that was, and,
jme (19:45):
but no one touched his feet.
This is very taboo.
And even by the time he was,seven or eight months or
something like that, I wasstruggling with doing his nails.
We had a groomer that wouldcome, she did the suspension
where she's kind of suspendinghim.
He's still screaming bloodymurder.
Anytime Bryan and I try to doit, it's like a scene from
(20:07):
Dexter where like this is notgood, because he moves so much
and we've literally triedeverything and Brian has to use
all his strength to kind of likehold him down, which is
terrible.
Pate (20:16):
Cause he has a panic.
It's, it's like a, a panicattack and he just can't think.
jme (20:21):
Yeah.
And Bryan like hurt himselftrying to, you know, so, and
this is with a muzzle.
This is with CBD.
We even tried nitrous,
Pate (20:29):
Yeah, yeah, nitrous, wasn't it gas or something?
jme (20:32):
Yeah, so in the pet care magazines, they're like, does,
does your pet have trouble?
And, and it's just like a littlecanister and the, the face mask.
And it didn't affect him at all.
And so it got to the pointwhere.
I had to take him to the vet andeven sedating him.
So giving him some Trazodone orsomething like that, that still
(20:52):
isn't enough.
And the last few times I've hadhis nails trimmed, they've had
to anesthetize him.
Like he's going into surgery.
And this is terrible.
This is terribly dangerous.
You don't want to put your dogunder every six months.
But Jordan had him for a whileas a foster and She started
working with him a little bit,but even she couldn't even get
(21:13):
to doing like one nail or morethan one nail and then that was
it.
And so, it might take me a yearto go through this, but
honestly, I think it's easierand better for him if he just
goes to the vet.
Pate (21:27):
Less traumatic.
jme (21:28):
Yeah, goes to the vet.
And he likes the vet.
He doesn't mind them.
Pate (21:31):
'cause he doesn't know what they're doing to him.
jme (21:33):
Right.
And so, yeah,
Pate (21:35):
'Cause he's sleeping.
jme (21:36):
He wakes up and he is like, oh, okay.
And I, I do other things, like Iplay with him on our stone
floors, I play with the laserand try and get him to run back
and forth and skid and, take himon the sidewalks and stuff like
that.
But his nails do grow reallyfast.
And so, so I have a, the extremesituation.
Where there wasn't much I coulddo about it, and now I have to
(21:57):
deal with it.
But, you know, if you do have adog that isn't that reactive or
that unresponsive to it, then,you can work up to these things.
And, you know, especially ifcost is gonna be a thing for
you, and, doing it yourself isgonna be better and easier, in
most cases.
But, you just have to bepatient.
And, It's not that I'm notpatient, but I have other
(22:21):
battles that I'm fighting andthis isn't one of them that I'm
going to.
So, I've pretty much given up onit, but I, I don't think that
needs to be true for otherpeople.
And, and this is the first dogI've ever seen that has that
extreme of a reaction.
Pate (22:34):
I mean, you can pay a vet to clip your dog's nails as
opposed to doing it home.
And they may not need to besedated, but I mean, they do do
the sedation kind of like whenthey, sedate a dog for x rays.
It's the same concept becausethat they're obviously not okay
with being still enough for an xray and when a dog is thrashing
(22:56):
and stuff like that the onething that you really really
really need to be careful aboutbecause this is gonna affect
your dog allowing you andtrusting you to do their nails
is to make sure that you don'tget too close to the quick
because that hurts I mean and sosome dogs are going to have such
a fear Of expecting pain becauseyou or someone else have clipped
(23:21):
them one too many times and,then when they don't trust you,
they're not going, they're like,look, I let you do it.
I let you do it a few times andit hurt.
So this, no, I don't like beinghurt.
And you should be able tounderstand that because like
when you get your own nail.
I mean, not even like cutting itat the quick, but sometimes when
(23:43):
your nail bends back, I mean,that hurts like a bitch and
then, you know, and if anyonehas ever had their nail ripped
off, that hurts like a bitch andit does well and it can be hard
because a lot of dogs have blacknails and you can't really see
the quick, so this is why Unlessyou have them on your back and
you've acclimated them to be ontheir back.
jme (24:05):
Then you can see it, but this is why going and doing it
more often and taking off alittle bit each time is way
better than waiting and thentrying to take off a lot because
the quick continues to grow.
So the longer you let the nailgrow, the longer the quick gets,
and therefore the less you willever be able to take off ever
(24:27):
again.
So when you have the opportunityto be very proactive about it.
Please do because it will itwill be of a benefit to you and
your dog and once the quickshave gotten so long It can be
really really hard to push themto push them back.
Pate (24:42):
Yeah, I mean it can be done, but you know, it takes
time Another position that isgood that we use on our boarding
dogs because they're adults Whenyou have them on their four
feet, it's almost like a horsemaneuver, right?
Because you pull them back, youpull the leg, they're standing
(25:03):
in front of you.
And if anyone has horses,they're used to farriers or
whatever.
jme (25:08):
Yeah, they lift up their foot.
Pate (25:10):
Yeah, they lift up their foot.
So, what you want to do is liftup their foot from behind.
So, this works with the frontand the back.
Obviously, you're on your knees.
You know, yeah,
jme (25:21):
well and now you're looking at the pads on their feet.
You're looking at the bottom oftheir foot
Pate (25:25):
And then that way you can look at the quicks the,
obviously the white nail quicks,easy to see, but the black nail
quicks are also visible fromthat kind of position and then
that, that you can clip reallyquick.
jme (25:38):
Something else I noticed too is, turning the clipper
sideways on the nail.
Pate (25:41):
That actually causes more pressure on there quick.
jme (25:44):
Really?
Yeah, don't do that
Pate (25:49):
I Can't cuz it's squeezing it, you know, so it's squeezing
it this way Yeah.
jme (25:56):
Interesting.
Okay, I've been doing it wrongall my life.
But what I was going to say.
Pate (26:01):
That's why Cash don't like it.
jme (26:02):
No, that's not true.
What I was going to say thoughis you always want to make sure
you have like sharp tools too.
Pate (26:09):
Oh yeah.
jme (26:09):
If your tools start to get dull and you're pinching their
nails, that is going to hurt andthat's going to cause them to
not want you to do it anymore.
Cause most of the time it's thepressure that freaks them out.
Pate (26:21):
Oh, yeah.
And the thing is, the pressure,and if you hit that quick, then
it's tool, pressure, quick,pain.
And then they're going toassociate the tool with the
pressure, and the pressure withthe pain, and then, yeah.
jme (26:39):
Then you've done it.
Pate (26:40):
Exactly.
They can tolerate the pressure.
But once you get that paininvolved, then they're like, not
a fan.
And so I also acclimate mypuppies to the Dremel because I
like the Dremel because of blacknails.
(27:00):
Right.
And that takes a little bit moreacclimation because it buzzes.
And it has that motor noise,right?
jme (27:08):
Yeah, it vibrates, so it feels tingly.
Pate (27:10):
Yeah, and then, and then, and there is this one Dremel
that's out there that'spromoting that.
It's got a special motor, soit's quiet or whatever.
And I'm just like, ah, is thisfor real?
Do I really trust Instagram andFacebook ads?
Probably not.
I don't know.
It's probably a gimmick.
(27:31):
So I haven't like delved intothat, but the one that I like to
use, the one that I promote toeveryone who's interested in a
Dremel, and you should pay me.
No, I'm joking.
There's one on Chewy's.
That is, it has like almost likeit's like a metal like kind of
diamond top.
jme (27:50):
I've seen it around.
Pate (27:51):
Yeah, yeah, and it's rechargeable.
So I really like therechargeable part of it.
jme (27:56):
Yeah, that's good.
Pate (27:56):
But I like the metal grinding tip as opposed to some
of the PET Dremels have.
jme (28:05):
Sandpaper?
Pate (28:06):
Yeah, you, it's like you, it's around.
thing.
It makes it go around, spins.
Yeah, it makes it spin.
But then you attach thatspinner.
You, you put like, it's a roundsandpaper and I don't like those
because the sandpaper moves upand down.
(28:26):
And they don't last that long.
Whereas like the metal one we'vehad for two years now.
If they would stop losing it,
jme (28:33):
we might have to put that in the transcript of this.
Show.
Yeah.
And yeah.
Pate (28:38):
Yeah, we got it off Chewy's.
Okay.
Chewy's also donates.
jme (28:43):
Yeah, Chewy's is, Chewy's is very good to us.
They invited us for a Christmasevent and they donated, their
time and some supplies Chewy'sgood to rescues and shelters.
Pate (28:54):
Right, and if your order is wrong, for whatever reason,
they'll send you the appropriateorder and then tell you to
donate the incorrect one to ashelter or a rescue.
Yeah.
Which is great.
jme (29:06):
That's a good, a good customer service policy.
Pate (29:09):
Yeah.
So anyway, this Dremel does makenoise.
So you do have to acclimate themto the noise at first.
jme (29:15):
And how do you do that?
Pate (29:16):
I just have it.
Hanging around.
Turn it on just don't evenapproach the dog's feet.
You don't, don't touch theirfeet yet.
Just get'em used to that motor.
Let them, you know, you don'twanna let them sniff it when
it's on.
jme (29:31):
No.
Pate (29:31):
You let them sniff the tool and then you give'em a
treat and then you'll turn it onand then, treat them to
desensitize'em to the noisebefore.
You apply that buzzing pressurevibration to their nails.
And the reason why I like theDremel is because you are far
(29:51):
less likely to cut the quick andmake them bleed than you are
with the clippers.
And also the Dremel you canYeah.
Because like when you clip, it'slike, it's sharp.
jme (30:06):
Yeah.
Especially like if you arewearing shorts in the summertime
or something, it's like clippingis always good, but then it's,
then there's the, until theywear them rounded and then
you're like, yeah, and most dogswon't let you sit there and file
their nails because that takestoo long and stuff.
So the Dremel can be a reallygood tool.
Pate (30:22):
Yeah.
So yeah, I actually love theDremel.
jme (30:25):
Well, and we also use those baby tiny little nail clippers
for puppies and kittens orespecially kittens, I guess
They're they're only like acouple inches.
Pate (30:35):
Oh like the cat clippers.
Yeah.
Yeah, very tiny.
We use those for the puppies
jme (30:39):
We use them for really small puppies and kittens
Pate (30:42):
and then also like for puppies and kittens If you don't
have one of those cat clippers,you can use your own clipper.
jme (30:48):
Oh, yeah, like people.
Yeah people clippers Yep, I'vedone that before.
Pate (30:51):
Yeah Those are all right.
It's just, I like the scissoreffect of the little cat
clippers for the small puppiesand stuff like that.
And then the, the Dremel, we douse the Dremel with the boarding
clients as well.
And Duchess, Duchess is like,Oh, hell no.
(31:12):
When she heard the Dremel.
So yeah, Duchess doesn't getDremel.
jme (31:16):
We should say that Duchess is a dog that we've known since
she was about a year old.
So she's, an OG for sure.
For our daycare.
For our daycare.
And so, you know, we love thisdog and, and she knows, she
knows us.
We know her.
So she still comes to stay withus at our kennels for boarding
and
Pate (31:34):
with her new baby sister.
jme (31:35):
Yes, that we adopted.
Pate (31:36):
That was my foster.
Mm hmm that I graciously allowedChad to have.
jme (31:41):
Yes, another another Frenchie as well.
So, yeah, you know, maybe babyFrenchies don't come in to
rescue that often, but when theydo.
We, we already knew who, who wewere going to ask.
All right.
Pate (31:52):
So yes.
So Duchess, Yeah, we don't use aDremel on Duchess.
Duchess is, she's royalty.
So she is treated with, glovedhands.
jme (32:03):
I will say whenever she would walk into the daycare,
she's a very round Frenchie,like a potato.
And she, she wanders into thedaycare, and I would always
hear, Here she comes, missAmerica every time.
And I like, I don't know why,but Yeah.
I was just thinking like,because here comes our princess.
Pate (32:23):
Exactly.
Because she walks down like youwould, if she had a hand, she'd
be doing this Yeah.
She'd be doing this.
Yeah.
You know, and then her faceisn't a smile, it's a, yeah.
You know, that's, um,
jme (32:34):
like a subtle smirk.
Pate (32:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm Yeah.
Like, she's like, you know, youknow you love me.
Mm-hmm You know, you do.
And, uh, yeah.
So that's Dutchy.
So when it comes to the nails,she, she gets treated with the
kid gloves for sure.
But you don't have to do thatwith every dog, especially if
you acclimate them.
But yeah, I mean, some dogs do,like jme said, they, they do
(32:58):
need a muzzle.
I mean, do it really quick.
You know, some dogs need twopeople.
Someone needs to apply thetreats while someone clips or
dremels, you know.
jme (33:08):
You do a surprising number of, of nail trims by yourself
though.
Pate (33:11):
Oh, I do.
jme (33:12):
I've always been surprised.
Honestly, I don't like doingnail trims.
When we offered them at the, atthe daycare, I was like, I don't
want to do it.
Like, and I don't know what itis.
I just don't like doing it.
I'll do it if I have to, and Ido it for my own dogs, but.
It's just not my favorite thingto do.
But some people really lovedoing it.
Yeah.
And I, I don't know.
Pate (33:31):
Yeah.
And I don't, I don't mind it, Ido say that my tool of
preference is the Dremel, butnot all dogs, if you don't train
them to it, are accepting ofthat motor and the vibration.
I do really like the Dremelbecause of the the quick.
With the black nails and that itrounds out the, you know, and
(33:54):
then some people will do acombination, they'll do a quick
clip with the clippers and thendo a quick little buzz with the
Dremel just to get the edgesoff, that's good because
sometimes if you've got time,the Dremel is great, but if you
have a dog who doesn't acceptbeing in the a certain position
for very long and you want to doit quick and you need to do it
(34:17):
quick, clip in real quick andthen, smoothing out the edges
with the Dremel is timeeffective.
And if you're confident that youwon't hit the quick, yeah, you
know.
Well, I think, I think that'swhy People are afraid, not
afraid, they're just a littlebit, they would have other
people do the nails, justbecause they don't want to clip
(34:38):
their dog.
And I do understand that, mostdogs will forgive you, they just
won't like it, of course, butthey'll forgive you, And there
was one of Meatball's claws thatwas always, I always, No matter
what I did, how little Iclipped, it got the quick and so
I think every nail trim involvedgetting the quick because his
(35:00):
nails grew so fast, but maybethat's part of why I don't like
doing it because I know thateven as careful as I can be that
sometimes those quicks arelonger, some are longer than
others and even if I'm taking alittle bit, it's that guilt,
jme (35:15):
Yeah, I guess so.
I don't know.
I just
Pate (35:17):
you feel bad when they
jme (35:19):
I don't like taking showers.
I don't like eating I don't likea lot of things that take my
time So I guess it probablyisn't surprising that I don't
want to trim nails.
Yeah I've had a nail go in mymouth
Pate (35:31):
I've had a nail hit me in the face.
jme (35:35):
No, it went right in my mouth Yeah, which reminds me of
a really funny story.
It's not a nail trimming story,but I was, you know, fostering
and babysitting some dogs andprobably I had 10 little dogs
and they were all on the couchwith me on my lap and one of
them was kind of like sitting onmy lap but decided to kind of
back up my, or somehow was nearmy face and it was a pug I
(36:02):
think.
And it backed its butthole rightinto my teeth while I was
smiling.
Pate (36:07):
Oh my god!
jme (36:09):
And, and I, like, so I'm smiling, and then the dog backs
up, and its butthole Yeah, itmade contact with my teeth.
Pate (36:19):
Oh, nasty.
jme (36:20):
And so then the next picture's like Yeah, that's a
good story.
Don't put buttholes on yourteeth.
Pate (36:29):
So gross.
All right.
Well, yeah.
And then another thing whenyou're doing nails, you should
always, always before you evenclip your dog's nails, you have
to have something to stop theblood flow because if you don't,
and you clip clip that quick,it's like Dexter, like, yeah,
(36:52):
it's a Dexter.
Murder scene, you know, there'sblood splattered everywhere.
jme (36:57):
Yeah, and if your dog doesn't like you holding their
paws either, you're gonna have ahard time trying to dab it with
a paper towel or something.
Pate (37:04):
Well, and a paper towel won't make it stop.
jme (37:06):
No, it won't make it stop.
Pate (37:07):
It won't, it won't, It doesn't clot quick enough, so
you have to have something thatwill,
jme (37:12):
it's called styptic powder.
Pate (37:14):
Yeah, you can get styptic powder.
Some people use, what is it,corn starch?
Yeah.
jme (37:19):
That gets all over your house.
Pate (37:21):
Does it?
The corn starch, uh, no, I mean,yeah.
I mean the styptic powder kindof looks like the corn starch
because it's yellow.
jme (37:29):
Yeah, it works well though.
Pate (37:30):
Yeah, and it works so quickly.
And normally what I've done, isstyptic powder in the, the,
jme (37:37):
The lid.
Pate (37:37):
Yeah, and then I'll put the dog's paw in the styptic
powder and dab it in the powder.
Some people will take a pinchand then try to put it on the
dog's, bleeding nail and no, Ialways, I always like dab it in
the lid that seems to coat itreally well
jme (37:53):
well, plus you don't waste so much and you don't
contaminate the container.
Pate (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So before you do nails, youdefinitely should have, styptic
powder that.
You can get from pet stores, andit's on Amazon.
Like you can get everything onAmazon.
jme (38:09):
It's only a couple bucks too.
I mean, it's not a lot.
Pate (38:12):
But go to your pet stores instead of Amazon because Jeff
Bezos has enough money.
jme (38:16):
So, I made a post, I made a post the other day and this
woman told me that I, I'm goingto be sued for libel for saying
that, um, Jeff Bezos and MarkZuckerberg aren't very
charitable.
Pate (38:30):
What?
Really?
jme (38:31):
Yeah, and I was like Oh, that's so funny.
I would die to go into it.
Pate (38:35):
Really?
jme (38:36):
Yeah.
She's like, you want to reviseyour posts because you are
making assumptions.
And I'm like, I'm not makingassumptions.
I run a charity.
And both of those companiesstopped supporting charities.
And it's hurt us by tens ofthousands of dollars.
I'm not sure how that's nottrue.
But I was like, Can you imagineif they really did sue me?
(38:58):
Like going to court and likelittle old me running an animal
rescue.
Pate (39:03):
Here's my five dollars.
jme (39:04):
Yeah, like some big whatever powerhouse trying to
trying to shut me down.
Like I was just like, oh my god,I would welcome that.
Pate (39:12):
Right.
Yeah.
jme (39:12):
So we're wrapping up nail trims.
I'm jme.
Pate (39:15):
I'm Pate.
Hopefully
jme (39:17):
you've learned something and if you haven't or you have
questions, email us at rescueshit at motleyzoo.
org
Pate (39:26):
or if you would like to have any tips on anything else,
email us at
jme (39:32):
rescue shit at motleyzoo.
org
Pate (39:35):
again.
We're signing off.
This is Pate.
jme (39:38):
I'm jme.
Pate (39:39):
Rock on.
jme (39:40):
Rescue on.
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