February 5, 2025 • 39 mins
Learn about the adjustment period for dogs when you transition them into a new home!
Original music by Matt Setter and friend Sean!
Original content by Matt Setter and friend, Sean!
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Episode Transcript
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jme (00:00):
Hi, I'm Jamie
Pate (00:00):
and I'm Pate.
This is Motley Zoo Animal Rescuewith our podcast
jme (00:04):
Rescue Shit.
Woo!
Pate (00:07):
We still need that squeaker.
jme (00:08):
Okay.
Today we are going to talk aboutthe rule of three and if you
haven't heard Pate, why don'tyou tell everybody a little bit
about what that is?
Pate (00:17):
So basically it's, you know, when you adopt a dog or
even when you get a dog, buteveryone kind of associates it
with adoption, right?
And it's the three, three, threerule, three days, three weeks,
three months.
And basically, it's aboutacclimation and what you can
expect during certain,generalized time frames of any
(00:43):
dog that you bring in your home,whether it's from a rescue,
whether it's from a shelter,whether it's, you know, from, A
breeder.
jme (00:51):
Heaven forbid a breeder.
If you're listening to thispodcast, we hope you're not
buying dogs.
Pate (00:57):
A backyard breeder, please don't.
jme (00:58):
No, you know.
Yeah.
That's really what I mean bybackyard breeders.
Pate (01:02):
Yeah, yeah.
jme (01:03):
Puppy mills and stuff.
Pate (01:04):
Right.
Or, you know, purchasing a dogat the pet store, which,
jme (01:07):
no, that's just as bad.
Pate (01:08):
Those should, oh, you know what, we need to talk about
that.
Yeah.
Bailing out Benji, right?
jme (01:12):
Yeah.
Pate (01:13):
So, anyway.
jme (01:14):
That'll be next time.
Pate (01:15):
Yeah, but no, just don't.
So it's the rule of three,three, three, three days, three
weeks, three months.
jme (01:23):
So in the first three days, that's when they're typically
getting used to theirenvironment, right?
They're, they're in a new placeand they're kind of shell
shocked.
And it's, I guess, maybe it'skind of like going on vacation
and it takes you a few days tillyou know your way around the
hotel or around, you know, howto get to the beach.
And, I mean, for us, obviously,it's a little bit more
(01:43):
directional, I suppose.
For a dog, you know, they'rekind of just trying to figure
out where things are, who arethese people, you know, what's
going on.
So, what are some things thatyou should not do in those three
days?
Pate (01:58):
Well, the first three days, you, you want to get them,
To know you and they don't knowyou and a lot of people just get
so excited about having a dogWe're gonna go on adventures
right away.
I'm gonna go hiking.
I'm gonna go to the pet storeMeanwhile, this dog is like who
who are you?
What's what's your name?
jme (02:17):
Why am I following you?
I don't know
Pate (02:18):
exactly and and you know What sometimes it's fine.
You've got a very Friendlyoutgoing dog who is just like
I'm gonna go with the flow Andwe're great, but that's not the
general rule.
The general rule is like, if we,like Jamie brought up vacation,
right?
(02:39):
If we got just dumped in themiddle of China, true story.
And, and you don't speak Chineseand there's no English anywhere
around and they don't speakEnglish, you are overwhelmed.
You don't even know.
I mean, you know, here's doors,but which door goes to the
(03:00):
bathroom, you know, like youdon't want to walk in into the
wrong room or anything likethat.
jme (03:06):
Are you going to actually find a toilet or a hole in the
ground?
That's what I found.
What's behind this door.
Pate (03:13):
It's a hole in the ground.
But, and then that's the thingwith dogs, right?
Because everyone asks, like, arethey housebroken?
I'm like, well, to that housethey are.
But a door is a door is a doorlike how we know oh this door
might go to a bedroom.
It might go into a bathroom, butthen we Instinctually, you know
as people because these arehouses that we built we know
(03:36):
where the back that where thelike the door would be To the
backyard, which is where a dog'sbathroom is a dog is just gonna
see a door They're not gonnaknow.
Hey, I gotta go to the bathroom.
I'm gonna go to that doorspecifically so just little
things that you may not eventhink of that is going to be
(03:56):
totally new and overwhelming forthe dog, which can cause stress
because a lot of dogs do notwant to go to the bathroom where
they live.
They want to go outside and notmake a mess.
So that can be like a form ofstress.
So your first three days, youwant to alleviate that stress by
(04:17):
creating a very tight schedule.
When do we get up?
When do we go to the bathroom?
When do we eat?
Those kind of things.
Well, okay, my question was whatnot to do, but Oh, was that?
Did I totally digress?
jme (04:33):
Yeah, I see you did.
Pate (04:33):
This is what happens.
jme (04:34):
But that's okay, because, yeah, it, so a lot of people,
when they want to adopt a dog,they want to do it on a Friday
so that they have the wholeweekend to be with their dog.
Or take vacation.
They want to take a whole weekoff this.
Really that concept.
I, we know that they're tryingto do a good thing, but the dog,
(04:56):
most dogs are completelyoverwhelmed and do not want you
in their face for the next 72hours.
And if you establish a routinewhere you are home all the time
for those 72 hours.
Or that whole week, and thenyou're going to leave for work,
you are creating a pattern forthem that you are then going to
break.
Pate (05:14):
And then restart.
jme (05:16):
You're going to have to restart.
And you're going to have torestart it.
So, honestly, for us, we're justlike, you know, that isn't
really how it works for dogs.
So, you know, you get the dog ona Tuesday evening, and you go
home, and you, you know, letthem be in their crate, you give
them some food.
You know, if they're, if they'rewilling, then, you know, take
(05:37):
them out and, and pet them andlet them sit on your lap for a
little while and then put themback to bed and then go about
your business and then start thenext day with the routine.
And that way they understandfrom the beginning, you're going
to get up and you're going to goto work.
And more days out of the week,you know, five days out of the
week, it's going to be, you'regetting up at seven on the
(06:00):
weekends.
You're going to get up at nine.
That's fine.
You know, they, they can startto understand that, but when
they've come to depend on youbeing there 24 seven, it is very
hard for them to, to break thathabit.
So we really suggest when youget home, letting them be more
than you're playing with them orbeing in their face.
(06:20):
And that's true for the firsttime.
Yeah, well, I mean, and youestablish your routine because
even if you do get a dog on theweekend, you want to get them up
like you would on a work daybecause you want to establish
that routine.
This is the routine that we'regoing to have moving forward,
but yeah, people don't want todo that because they want to
(06:41):
sleep in.
Pate (06:42):
So you better get up
jme (06:43):
what's beneficial for you and what's beneficial for the
dog.
And Pate's right.
It would make sense that youshould get up at seven o'clock
on Sunday.
After you've got your dog onSaturday and try and get them
used to the routine already,
Pate (06:55):
right?
And then another thing is thatwe do a lot of crate training
with our dogs Because that isthe one thing that is going to
be kind of like a stable or anorm for them they're used to
being in a foster home in acrate and and then they may See
(07:19):
a crate in their new home andthey already know they they're
already trained to the crate.
So they're like, oh, this is myroom, you know They don't where
I eat.
This is yeah,
jme (07:30):
they they don't have to look at the doors and be like,
which one's mine Hey, right,they look at the crate and
they're like, oh I go in hereand it makes them feel safe It
makes them feel happy.
So again being transported tosome some if you just got
dropped off at someone's familyhouse in a country you didn't
You know, speak the language andyou're just sitting there and
(07:50):
the whole family is runningaround and, you know, talking
and doing all those things thatyou don't know where you fit in.
A crate helps a dog know wherethey fit in.
Pate (07:58):
Right.
And also it helps establish thatnumber one question.
Is this dog housebroken?
You don't want a, you don't wantto give a dog too much freedom
at the beginning because youdon't want to take stuff away
from them.
So what you want to do when Isay it's like bootcamp, I mean,
you are very strict at thebeginning.
You're very not militant, butyou know, like we wake up this
(08:22):
time, we eat at this time, we goto the bathroom at this time and
you keep the dog with you.
You don't let the dog run aroundthe house.
Make Mary because they don'tknow They're gonna wreak havoc.
Yo, they don't know where thatbackdoor bathroom is
jme (08:38):
Well, and you don't want to like start them on a thing, you
know pattern where if they'rescared And they, they don't know
what's going on and they arefearful that they start peeing
in the house because they'rescared.
So this is, this tends to avoidthat because most dogs won't pee
in their crate unless they're apuppy and they're just learning.
That's a different story.
But most adult dogs don't wantto pee where they are.
(09:00):
So why get started giving themso much freedom when you're.
Like chances are that's not whatthey want or need and you're
just gonna have to take it backand start over again So just
start with the rules don't easeinto anything.
There is no easing into itThey're very black and white
start with the rules enforce therules and they will learn them,
Pate (09:22):
right?
And then once you once you starttrusting them, you know that
they're not going to you know,eat your walls Pee and we gotten
there yet?
We're only three days.
No, no, no.
Right.
But we're still talking aboutthe three days.
Is that you want to be so strictthat you don't give them, like,
this freedom.
Because if you give themfreedom, then they may sneak off
(09:44):
and have an accident in thehouse.
And then you have created a badhabit for them.
Unknowingly.
Right?
So, yeah.
So, that's why, you know, yourfirst three days, you're going
to be very strict with them.
And then your, this strictnesscontinues for the next three
weeks, because the three weeksis when you estab, when the dogs
in their head establish and knowthat schedule.
jme (10:09):
Can we call it structure instead?
I think people will, um,
Pate (10:13):
Boundaries.
jme (10:14):
Structure and boundaries.
Very structured.
Yeah.
Pate (10:16):
What did I say?
jme (10:17):
Strictness.
Pate (10:18):
Oh, well, yeah.
Because I was thinking about,you know, I was thinking
military, because you know howthe military, you get up at this
time and you, you know.
jme (10:26):
Yeah, which, I mean, I understand it, like, we want you
to be strict with yourstructure, but what we're
talking about is.
Pate (10:31):
You can have some leniency.
jme (10:32):
Is.
Yeah.
They can't free flow like wecan, so you need to construct
how their day is going to lookand, and they, all they want is
to know what's going to happennext.
It's just like kids.
It's,
Pate (10:45):
I mean, they are kids.
They say that their intellect islike, what, a two to three year
old.
jme (10:49):
Yeah.
Pate (10:50):
Unless it's a border collie, like an actual working
line.
jme (10:53):
Yeah.
So they just want to know what,what's expected of them.
And, and when you are very blackand white about that.
And very consistent about thatand you create that structure
from the beginning, then youwill be better off and your dog
will be better off.
So, so then we're at, threeweeks.
So three weeks they're startingto understand like what the
(11:17):
routine is, how things aregoing.
They might be trying different,strategies, I guess, to see
where they can, what they canget away with, what they can't.
This is why it's important tohave that structure.
So, why don't you tell them,what the three week mark is
about?
Pate (11:34):
Well, the three week mark is for them to feel a little bit
more settled because of thestructure, right?
They know what to expect.
They're not, they, if they hadanxiety at the beginning, they,
you should start seeing theanxiety lessen as they know what
to expect from you.
They've kind of accepted you as,you know, Hey, I'm a part of
(11:56):
this pack.
I know you, there's like sometrust involved, you know,
jme (12:00):
they belong.
Pate (12:00):
The bonding has started.
It's not a hundred percentthere.
So don't think that you're goingto go and, you know, have a
hundred percent recall in thebackyard.
Have, you know, like.
Oh, let's go to dog parks andyeah, just don't,'cause the
recall's not there.
The bond's not there at threeweeks.
jme (12:17):
So actually, when I asked what not to do at three days,
don't go to the dog dog park.
Go to the dog park, don't takethem to shopping.
Don't do all these things thatare really fun for people to do,
but it's just too overwhelmingfor most dogs.
And this is true.
Again, no matter what kind ofdog you get, no matter where you
get them it, this is the.
(12:38):
The general rule and the way tohelp them adjust in a healthy
and confident way.
Pate (12:43):
Right.
Yeah.
Like I said, I mean, you mayhave that unicorn dog who is Mr.
Adventure seeker, easy flow.
Well, you know, I loveeverybody.
Everyone loves me, but that'snot the majority.
jme (12:58):
They're still going through the same process.
They're just doing it with alittle more grace.
Yeah, they're just, they have amore flexible personality,
Pate (13:05):
right?
jme (13:06):
So they're still going through this process.
They just care less about itbecause they're not, you know,
maybe not as anxious as anotherdog, but they are still doing
this process.
And that's the thing that youcan't, you know, you can't
forget is that the process isthe same for all the dogs,
Pate (13:21):
right?
jme (13:21):
It's just how extreme is this.
Anxiety or, you know, transitiongoing to be for, for the dog
that you just brought home.
Pate (13:29):
Right.
Yeah.
Three days is just to getacclimated to the space and the
people.
Three weeks is to get acclimatedto the schedule and when you'll
start seeing some behaviors asthey get a little bit more
comfortable, like jme wassaying, they might try to push
some boundaries.
(13:50):
You know, um, but
jme (13:52):
I call it letting their hair down.
It's like, you know, they wereon their best behavior and then
it's right around three weeksthat you'll start to see they're
like, Oh, well, I guess I'mgoing to really, you know, be
myself now because I'mcomfortable and that's when
you'll start, you possibly willstart seeing things like
resource guarding or.
Reactivity or something, becausethey were not comfortable before
(14:14):
that.
And now they're like, this is myplace, like, I can do this.
And they are going to try, justlike a child, to see what they
can get away with.
And it's not, it's notunnatural.
People do the same thing.
You do what gets results.
So if they, misbehave and youdon't have, structure.
They got away with it andthey're going to keep getting
(14:34):
away with it.
So, you know, that's why it'sreally important to keep this
structure up.
And it's not like you have totake all this time to do it.
It's just the order in which youdo things and remembering, you
know, ask them to sit beforeeating or, you know, just little
things like that where you arehelping them exercise some
control.
(14:55):
So that they aren't runningaround, you know, being insane
little hooligans, you know, kindof like my daughter when she was
trying to learn the ways of thegrocery store and you sometimes
get a treat and sometimes youdon't and when she would want to
treat and she wouldn't beallowed to have a treat at that
(15:17):
time and she threw herself onthe ground, throw a little
temper tantrum You know, um,dogs will do that too.
Yeah, and you have to leave thegrocery store.
If you don't know, you need toleave the grocery store.
All your, all your groceries,you just go.
And they realize, oh crap, thatwon't work.
If you keep, if you buy them atreat to shut them up, they will
continue to do it.
Pate (15:37):
Yep, exactly.
jme (15:38):
And so, yeah.
The right answer is no, yeah,just don't let them do this.
Pate (15:44):
Yeah, or yeah, or you walk away while they throw a temper
tantrum and then they come backlike, I didn't mean it.
jme (15:52):
Yeah, my mom did that to me.
She did it to me once and I waswhining about something and she
just walked right out of thestore and I was like, oh shit,
like, and, and I quickly ran outand she just, she was like, She
wouldn't even say anything tome.
And I was like, okay, lessonlearned.
I will never do that again.
Pate (16:12):
Right.
And then, and then that's whathappens sometimes with dogs.
That you have this little angel,and then at three weeks, you're
like, hmm, do I see a littlesass?
Is there a little bit of a devilin you?
Because they may, like jme said,they may start resource
guarding.
Like, this is my bed.
Or this is my toy.
(16:33):
They're going to see what theycan get away with because
they're not yet established inyour home, right?
jme (16:39):
It's like, it, it is exactly kind of testing the
boundaries of their limitations.
So
Pate (16:44):
And testing you,
jme (16:45):
yeah.
And if you correct them and, youknow, give them a consequence,
like, you know, if they'rebarking and you pick them up,
then.
They'll bark again.
And if you pick them up, they'llbark again.
And, and all of a sudden now thethird time, for sure, you have a
pattern.
So, that, that's another rule ofthree is that it takes dogs
(17:06):
about three times of doing thesame thing before it becomes,
something they've learned.
Pate (17:10):
Three is a magic number.
jme (17:11):
A pattern.
It really is.
Pate (17:13):
And then, and then after our three weeks are established,
then you've got three months,right?
jme (17:20):
Oh, am I taking on three months?
So by the time it's threemonths, they, they do feel like
this is their home.
They think that's pretty muchwhere they're going to be.
This doesn't mean, you know,like if they're three months in
a foster home, that they can'tgo to a new home or that they
can't adjust.
That's not what that means, butthey've accepted.
This is their fate, I guess.
(17:41):
And you know, they're probablypretty happy about it, but
they've accepted this as theirhome and they feel like they
belong.
More permanently, and this iswhere by this time you really
want to have established thoserules and structures and, and at
this time, this is when theyreally will be more bonded to
you.
But this also still doesn't meanyou can just let them off leash.
(18:02):
So yeah, don't think that.
Pate (18:04):
No, because then at three months we've, they have
established in their head, I'mhome.
And that can be a good thing orthat can be a bad thing, you
know, and hopefully during thistime after the three weeks where
they've adjusted to your house,you've started going to training
classes because at three monthswhen this is their home, we
(18:30):
talked about resource guardingtheir bed.
Sometimes they can resourceguard.
quote unquote protect theirpeople now because this is their
home.
This is their people, you know?
So it's not just, this is mybed.
This is my people.
This is my house.
And so you'll start seeing thatthey have totally let their hair
(18:53):
down.
And, your sweet angel baby may.
Now
jme (18:58):
yeah, that's that's the last of the layers that you
really peel back and that'spretty much who they're who they
are And and how they're gonnabehave and and so you're gonna
hope that you've you knowestablished a good pattern
Obviously with puppies, they arestill developing, so there's
another layer of complexity tothat that is, you know, how
they're going to develop,they're going to develop and
(19:20):
have fear stages, and they'regoing to start being afraid of
things that they weren't afraidof before, and this always
throws people for a loop, butit's, it doesn't have to do with
this 3 3 3 adjustment periodthat we're talking about.
Pate (19:31):
Yeah, and, and then not every dog is going to decide
that.
You know, these are my people.
I'm going to protect my peoplebecause if you are, you know,
the leader of the pack, so tospeak, they're happy with you
being their leader.
They want you to be theirleader.
They want someone to protectthem.
And
jme (19:48):
that's the irony, right?
Is that a lot of people, youknow, want to get a dog because
they're like, Oh, they'llprotect me.
But that dog is actually usuallymost comfortable when, when you
are protecting them.
Pate (19:57):
Exactly.
And.
It's not to say that at threemonths all of a sudden you're
going to have a demon dog atall.
No, not at all.
That's when you're going to seethat they've really come to the
conclusion that this is my placeand this is my people and you're
going to have, you know, thatbond.
(20:19):
And one thing like withfostering, cause you mentioned
the fostering at three months,they're, they're pretty, like
they're subtle.
This is great.
You know, some fosters have tokind of pull back on their
bonding and that's anotherreason why we, when like us in
particular, our rescue, we wantthe dogs to be crate trained and
(20:40):
not be in bed with the peoplebecause that's an extra bonding
that's, when you adjust to a newhome, it's like, that's yet
another adjustment that's notokay because it's not my people.
It's not.
jme (20:53):
Yeah, that's a really permanent choice that if you're
going to keep that dog forever,then you can make that choice,
but otherwise you're doing thedog a disservice,
Pate (21:02):
right?
jme (21:03):
It may be great for you, but you are doing the dog a
disservice,
Pate (21:07):
right?
And cause you want to, you wantto bond with them.
You want to bond with yourfoster dog, but not a hundred
percent.
jme (21:13):
Yeah.
You know, that's going to be forthe new family to do.
And if you've had a foster dogfor three months.
This is when people start to getpretty attached and they may
think about adopting If that'san option for them for their
family, that's when they startto think about it and But
sometimes they ask us if youknow, are they gonna be able to
(21:34):
love another person again?
Pate (21:35):
Oh, yeah,
jme (21:36):
you know, what if they can't get along without me and
we're like don't flatteryourself too much.
Like,
Pate (21:41):
you did not just say that you ain't all that,
jme (21:45):
right?
Because no, what you've taughtthem is how to trust people.
What you've taught them is thatthey can be loved and they will
be more open to it the next timethey have this opportunity.
So even though they may have togo through this transition
again, it will actually beeasier because they know what to
expect.
Pate (22:03):
Right.
Yeah.
It's not hard to move a fosterto another, a forever home and
they'll have to adjust for threemonths and they've already
adjusted for three months.
We've seen how successful thatis.
So adjusting to a new home forthree months with people who are
focused on them a hundredpercent is not that hard for the
(22:26):
dogs.
I mean, dogs are very adaptable.
Um, that's, that's, I mean,that's one of the saving graces
of, of dogs in general is thatthey are very adaptable.
jme (22:35):
Yeah, and resilient.
Pate (22:36):
So resilient.
I mean, I don't want to say Ihold a grudge.
I don't even know if I rememberlong enough to hold a grudge,
but Eva does.
Anyway, that's one of our fosterdogs.
But, the dogs can come fromhorrible situations and you're
like, Oh man, you got so brokenby someone, someone's failed you
(22:59):
like so hard.
How can you even get, how canyou even look at another person
without wanting to, you know,like punch them in the throat
for lack of a better, you know,but, but dogs are just like, Oh.
majority of dogs, like no matterwhat happens to them, they still
have that forgiveness.
And then that openness toreceive and want.
(23:24):
And give affection,
jme (23:26):
especially if they've been in a home, like even, honestly,
even in an abusive home, theymay be afraid of people, but
they're still going to, most ofthe time, they're going to try
and trust you.
They're going to try and findwho, who can they trust?
I would say it's, you know, dogsthat have grown up on the
streets that haven't grown upwith people that are going to be
less trustworthy and much harderto, get them to trust you in
(23:47):
general.
Pate (23:47):
Right.
Cause they speak more dog thanpeople.
jme (23:49):
Well, and, and.
Chances are they've survivedthat long either because they
avoided the right kind of peoplewhereas the dogs that maybe get
saved, they find the right kindof people, but you know, just
like people, dogs are going totrust in different ways, but I
will say it, even a dog that'sbeen severely abused,
Pate (24:09):
which we've seen,
jme (24:10):
yeah, they live more in the moment.
So, while we have seen PTSD,it's pretty rare, really, that
you can't overcome it.
Pate (24:18):
Right.
jme (24:19):
And so, you know, it's really important for you to know
that, you know, even if your dogdid have a rough past, there's a
better chance that they aregoing to turn it around and
recover, than they're not,
Pate (24:31):
right.
jme (24:32):
And it doesn't mean that they're going to have, you know,
lasting symptoms of that.
Especially if you create a newsafe environment for them, if
you run into a situation where,they're experiencing abuse
again, but you know, hopefullythat's that's not the case But
yeah, Dogs are pretty resilientand they really they want to
(24:55):
they want to move forward It'speople that have such a hard
time moving forward,
Pate (24:58):
right?
Yeah, like we we kind of getstuck in our past a lot But
dogs, they take it day by day,one step forward.
Stormy, I don't know if youremember Stormy.
She was a Catahoula Shepard mix,like an Aussie Shepard mix that
we had from California.
A friend of mine from collegewas doing her own kind of
(25:20):
rescuing, and pulled her fromLancaster, and her face was
buried in the wall.
She wouldn't look at anything, Imean, she was the most shut down
dog.
And then, when I first got her,seriously, like, three days, she
was not moving, she was so sick,she almost died.
I had to like really, reallyforce feed her.
(25:44):
It was just a lot, in therecuperation process for her.
And she was an older girl.
Puppies and younger dogs are,are able to kind of get over
like that kind of traumabonding, I guess.
But she got very, very bonded tome and she was an old girl.
So I was just like, you knowwhat, you're not, you're not
(26:06):
leaving.
But she, I mean, she was happy,like after all the trauma that
she's, she'd been through, shewas a happy old lady.
When she was with us and, andthat just tells you that dogs
can just overcome so much in theright environment with the right
people.
(26:27):
Could I have like adopted herout?
I don't know.
I didn't choose to.
So, but we have had like seniorsthat have been brought to the
shelters, that the people havejust discarded.
And I'm sure there's a littlebit of sadness, but then they
bond with their new people.
I mean, these are seniors who'velived an entire life possibly
(26:51):
with another family, but theyare still able to love another
family just as deeply.
I can't think of any dog fosterdog that I've had that hasn't
bonded with me.
I was going to say we should addthe three minute rule too,
because, when you go to theshelter and you get a dog and
you know, you put them in yourcar and like, maybe you've not
(27:12):
even touched them yet, but thenyou go to the vet.
And they act like you're theirbest friend and yeah, and that's
a trauma bonding right there.
jme (27:21):
And they're like, they're like, I love you Protect me.
Pate (27:24):
You're the lesser of two evils.
jme (27:26):
I was like, I don't even know you yet I'm like, we've
known each other for like 10minutes.
No, no, you're my person.
Pate (27:31):
You're my best friend forever
jme (27:33):
So yeah, so it's funny because that you know, the one
person that they Had familiarfor the car ride.
That's the person that they'relike, okay, I know you,
Pate (27:44):
right.
jme (27:44):
I know you.
Pate (27:45):
And that's what we talk about.
Like when we train is, sharingthe trust.
jme (27:49):
I experienced that really hardcore.
It was truck, truck stop.
Um, he,
Pate (27:55):
Oh, blue blues.
jme (27:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we were creating a pattern,trying to get him to trust new
people and the foster mom wouldhand the leash to the person.
The person would do a littleroutine and then they'd hand the
leash back to the foster.
Then the foster would hand it toa different person.
And I broke the rule I tried totake the leash from the other
(28:16):
person and the dog would not gowith me.
The dog would only go with meonce the leash was transferred
back to the foster and then hesaw me take the leash from her.
Then he went with me.
Pate (28:29):
Instead of her giving you the leash.
jme (28:30):
Yeah, because I just took it and I skipped it going back
to the foster mom.
He was just like, my mom did nothand you that leash.
I don't know who you are.
I'm not going with a stranger.
Pate (28:40):
Right.
jme (28:40):
And then also I was just being, I wasn't doing it on
purpose, but I was dumb and Ibroke the pattern and he just
stopped and he was like, you'redoing it wrong.
And he didn't want to go with mebecause I did the routine wrong.
Pate (28:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and another thing is likewith the three, three, three
rule, the reason why that isspoken about more is that it's
not necessarily that dogs havetrauma or whatever, but some
dogs may be under socialized.
There's a lot of reasons whydogs are shy or scared.
That's not the point to go intohere, but the fact is, That the
(29:13):
3 3 3 rule kind of helps thoseshy dogs center and you don't
overwhelm them by doing toomuch.
And then just to be realistic inyour expectations.
You know, like too much, toosoon, that's not a good thing.
jme (29:29):
And no, it's not for cats either, like opening up your
giant house to them.
They prefer, you know, verysmall world, small introductions
to the home.
And it's really the same withdogs, you know.
We've had people who take, alittle five pound chihuahua and
they have literally a 5, 000square foot house.
And the dog is terrified becauseit's so big.
It just doesn't even know whatto do with it.
(29:49):
So, we'll say it again and we'vesaid it before.
You know, the, the last thingthey need is more freedom,
Pate (29:56):
right?
Yeah.
jme (29:57):
They need more structure,
Pate (29:58):
right?
jme (29:59):
And that will make them happier,
Pate (30:01):
right?
Yeah.
jme (30:02):
When they're happier and better behaved, then you'll be
happier.
Pate (30:05):
Exactly.
The three, three, three ismostly adult dogs because
puppies, that's a wholedifferent, that's a whole
different topic to discusspuppies because their brains.
They're clay.
They're being molded.
So you're molding them all thetime.
But when you have an adult dog,they have a personality already.
(30:26):
They have experience in theworld.
You know, they, they have, theyhave their own expectations,
their own fears, things likethat.
It still applies, but not sostrictly.
I mean, well, I mean, yeah,because you're growing with them
the entire time becauseeverything you do with them
should be structured.
Yeah.
Yeah.
jme (30:45):
Like you're creating the routine.
You're creating the routine fortheir life for the
Pate (30:50):
yeah.
jme (30:50):
Whereas an adult dog has had some experience and they
have a perspective and theyhave, you know, you know,
somebody did it this way.
Somebody did it this way.
They can adapt.
They can adapt just fine to howyou do it.
But you just have to show themhow you do it.
But, you know, a lot of timestoo, we're separating them from
their siblings.
And, you know, those first threenights are probably going to be
(31:12):
pretty hard.
The three, the three rule reallydoes apply for that.
And it does apply.
It just is probably a littleless obvious.
Pate (31:20):
It's different.
And the thing is with the three,three, three rule with them is
that your first three nights maybe a little hard, but they are
going to glom onto you a lotfaster, then adult dog, right?
And then sometimes I find thatadult dogs, a lot of times, not
just sometimes.
A lot of times a fearful adultdog will glom on to one person
(31:43):
and then that's when that oneperson has to share the trust
with everyone else in thefamily.
But like with a puppy, they, youknow, they're going to glom on
to the person who is payingattention, is paying attention
to them, to them the most.
But if there's other people inthe family and you're paying
attention to that puppy, thatpuppy is going to be just as
affectionate with you, you know?
(32:03):
But when you get to like older.
under socialized dogs or a puppythat's going through a fear
stage at like six months orwhatever then you know it'll be
a little bit different thangetting a young puppy in your
home but not that whole glommingand learning process and
(32:24):
everything and then the trainingwith the puppy is just different
than if you have like an adultdog who is like fearful and Shut
down.
It's a totally different,scenario with them.
It's raining.
Very hard.
jme (32:42):
Mm hmm.
I think we've coveredeverything.
So, in general, our, our kind offood for thought is You know,
you want to give the dogeverything, but hold your horses
and slow down and like do it ontheir terms and, and do it with
(33:03):
consciousness and, andforethought and take the time to
let them be alone, take the timeto let them decompress, take the
time to, create a routine thatthey can rely on, structure that
they can rely on.
Okay.
If you don't want them on thecouch, start that the minute
they get home.
That kind of thing.
And the more consistent you are,honestly, the better your
(33:26):
relationship will be with yourdog and the stronger bond you'll
have.
Pate (33:30):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Some shelter dogs and rescuedogs are shy and fearful.
And for whatever reason in theirpast, and they need that time
from you and that patience fromyou to show their true selves.
That's why we say three daysjust to get used to the house,
(33:53):
three weeks to get used to theschedule that you've set and
three months for them to thinkthat you are their family, that
this is their home.
So if a dog that you get is notlike your best friend in a week,
be a little realistic,basically.
(34:14):
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I'm not goingto be your friend in a week.
jme (34:17):
I would like to say too that, it doesn't matter where
the dog comes from.
Pate (34:21):
Yeah.
jme (34:22):
Because a dog could come from a breeder and.
And be completely unsocialized,we've seen that before and
people try and tell us in onebreath that that's a good
breeder.
And then we see this completelyunsocialized dog and I'm like,
no, they are completelyunsocialized so it's like you
locked a kid in a closet untilthey were five and now you're
letting them into the real worldand expecting that they're going
(34:43):
to understand things.
So, yes.
When they're in rescue,sometimes they've had
experiences.
They're not always negativeexperiences, though, either.
So, you know, there are plentyof happy go lucky dogs that are,
adults that are ready to moveinto your home.
And maybe that you won't seeextreme signs of this.
But, but the problem is, is thatpeople think that they need to
(35:04):
buy a puppy, of a certain breedto get the dog they want.
But then they are the ones thatscrew up.
They're good loving families,but they've screwed up on
socialization, they've screwedup on training, and then when
they're a year old, you know,now they're in the shelter, I
mean this is what's happeningright now especially, but now
they're in the shelter, and theydid not come from an abusive
(35:25):
home, they came from a lovingfamily that didn't do enough
with the dog.
And so, you're just basicallytaking a one year old dog and
starting from scratch in termsof training.
A lot of these dogs come fromloving homes where people just
did not understand theexpectations of having that kind
of dog, or having the dog ingeneral.
Right.
(35:45):
Training and socializing.
Pate (35:47):
How much time and effort, you know.
What I always tell people whenthey get a puppy from us we're
giving you a solid puppy and youare the one who's going to take
Make or break him as an adultfor him to be a good adult or
her That's going to be on you.
So there's you know, yourgenetic component But there's
(36:12):
also that, you know that natureversus nurture
jme (36:15):
well, but there's very few dogs that come out of you know,
the womb with a screw loose ifyour dog is messed up as an
adult, chances are more oftenthan not that you are the one
that created that.
And it is not something theywere born with.
Pate (36:28):
Right.
jme (36:28):
There are cases where, you know, maybe they were born with
it.
I, even then I would say ittends to be more a breed trait
or something that they didn'tlike or weren't expecting I do
really think though that you cannever underestimate the amount
of impact you can make on yourdog and you can make more of an
impact than any experience thatthat dog has had in the past.
Pate (36:51):
Right.
And like I said, it's.
It's small.
It's actually not that muchgenetics because they found like
with these clone dogs orwhatever nature versus nurture,
right?
The, the clone dogs, the exactsame DNA of the previous dog,
but not the same personalitybecause you cannot replicate
(37:11):
every step of that puppyhood toget that same personality.
jme (37:17):
That's a good, bolster for the whole.
idea of you, you are responsiblefor the development of your
puppy.
That is really interestingbecause, yeah, I never really
thought about that.
Pate (37:30):
Yeah.
Because you can clone your dog,but you're not going to clone
your dog.
jme (37:34):
That's a whole thing that I don't really understand
Pate (37:35):
like it's son or it's daughter, you know?
Well, like when you clone,
jme (37:40):
I don't know, but I guess I don't understand why people
actually think.
Even if the physical componentswere the same, I would never
actually believe it was the samedog, or the same, it would have
the same personality.
Pate (37:51):
Okay, then, then we're just gonna go down a whole,
like, rabbit hole of, like,soul, right?
Because that's not the soul ofyour previous dog.
And it's an interesting the factthat we can even do it is like
cray cray.
jme (38:04):
Yeah, that is weird
Pate (38:05):
That's all like weird sci fi shit.
Maybe that's something we talkabout.
We're rescue shit, not sci fishit, okay?
jme (38:13):
All right.
Well, I guess we've wrapped itup for the day.
I'm jme.
Pate (38:17):
I'm Pate.
jme (38:18):
Rock on.
Pate (38:18):
Rescue on.
Hi, I'm Jamie
Pate (00:00):
and I'm Pate.
This is Motley Zoo Animal Rescuewith our podcast
jme (00:04):
Rescue Shit.
Woo!
Pate (00:07):
We still need that squeaker.
jme (00:08):
Okay.
Today we are going to talk aboutthe rule of three and if you
haven't heard Pate, why don'tyou tell everybody a little bit
about what that is?
Pate (00:17):
So basically it's, you know, when you adopt a dog or
even when you get a dog, buteveryone kind of associates it
with adoption, right?
And it's the three, three, threerule, three days, three weeks,
three months.
And basically, it's aboutacclimation and what you can
expect during certain,generalized time frames of any
(00:43):
dog that you bring in your home,whether it's from a rescue,
whether it's from a shelter,whether it's, you know, from, A
breeder.
jme (00:51):
Heaven forbid a breeder.
If you're listening to thispodcast, we hope you're not
buying dogs.
Pate (00:57):
A backyard breeder, please don't.
jme (00:58):
No, you know.
Yeah.
That's really what I mean bybackyard breeders.
Pate (01:02):
Yeah, yeah.
jme (01:03):
Puppy mills and stuff.
Pate (01:04):
Right.
Or, you know, purchasing a dogat the pet store, which,
jme (01:07):
no, that's just as bad.
Pate (01:08):
Those should, oh, you know what, we need to talk about
that.
Yeah.
Bailing out Benji, right?
jme (01:12):
Yeah.
Pate (01:13):
So, anyway.
jme (01:14):
That'll be next time.
Pate (01:15):
Yeah, but no, just don't.
So it's the rule of three,three, three, three days, three
weeks, three months.
jme (01:23):
So in the first three days, that's when they're typically
getting used to theirenvironment, right?
They're, they're in a new placeand they're kind of shell
shocked.
And it's, I guess, maybe it'skind of like going on vacation
and it takes you a few days tillyou know your way around the
hotel or around, you know, howto get to the beach.
And, I mean, for us, obviously,it's a little bit more
(01:43):
directional, I suppose.
For a dog, you know, they'rekind of just trying to figure
out where things are, who arethese people, you know, what's
going on.
So, what are some things thatyou should not do in those three
days?
Pate (01:58):
Well, the first three days, you, you want to get them,
To know you and they don't knowyou and a lot of people just get
so excited about having a dogWe're gonna go on adventures
right away.
I'm gonna go hiking.
I'm gonna go to the pet storeMeanwhile, this dog is like who
who are you?
What's what's your name?
jme (02:17):
Why am I following you?
I don't know
Pate (02:18):
exactly and and you know What sometimes it's fine.
You've got a very Friendlyoutgoing dog who is just like
I'm gonna go with the flow Andwe're great, but that's not the
general rule.
The general rule is like, if we,like Jamie brought up vacation,
right?
(02:39):
If we got just dumped in themiddle of China, true story.
And, and you don't speak Chineseand there's no English anywhere
around and they don't speakEnglish, you are overwhelmed.
You don't even know.
I mean, you know, here's doors,but which door goes to the
(03:00):
bathroom, you know, like youdon't want to walk in into the
wrong room or anything likethat.
jme (03:06):
Are you going to actually find a toilet or a hole in the
ground?
That's what I found.
What's behind this door.
Pate (03:13):
It's a hole in the ground.
But, and then that's the thingwith dogs, right?
Because everyone asks, like, arethey housebroken?
I'm like, well, to that housethey are.
But a door is a door is a doorlike how we know oh this door
might go to a bedroom.
It might go into a bathroom, butthen we Instinctually, you know
as people because these arehouses that we built we know
(03:36):
where the back that where thelike the door would be To the
backyard, which is where a dog'sbathroom is a dog is just gonna
see a door They're not gonnaknow.
Hey, I gotta go to the bathroom.
I'm gonna go to that doorspecifically so just little
things that you may not eventhink of that is going to be
(03:56):
totally new and overwhelming forthe dog, which can cause stress
because a lot of dogs do notwant to go to the bathroom where
they live.
They want to go outside and notmake a mess.
So that can be like a form ofstress.
So your first three days, youwant to alleviate that stress by
(04:17):
creating a very tight schedule.
When do we get up?
When do we go to the bathroom?
When do we eat?
Those kind of things.
Well, okay, my question was whatnot to do, but Oh, was that?
Did I totally digress?
jme (04:33):
Yeah, I see you did.
Pate (04:33):
This is what happens.
jme (04:34):
But that's okay, because, yeah, it, so a lot of people,
when they want to adopt a dog,they want to do it on a Friday
so that they have the wholeweekend to be with their dog.
Or take vacation.
They want to take a whole weekoff this.
Really that concept.
I, we know that they're tryingto do a good thing, but the dog,
(04:56):
most dogs are completelyoverwhelmed and do not want you
in their face for the next 72hours.
And if you establish a routinewhere you are home all the time
for those 72 hours.
Or that whole week, and thenyou're going to leave for work,
you are creating a pattern forthem that you are then going to
break.
Pate (05:14):
And then restart.
jme (05:16):
You're going to have to restart.
And you're going to have torestart it.
So, honestly, for us, we're justlike, you know, that isn't
really how it works for dogs.
So, you know, you get the dog ona Tuesday evening, and you go
home, and you, you know, letthem be in their crate, you give
them some food.
You know, if they're, if they'rewilling, then, you know, take
(05:37):
them out and, and pet them andlet them sit on your lap for a
little while and then put themback to bed and then go about
your business and then start thenext day with the routine.
And that way they understandfrom the beginning, you're going
to get up and you're going to goto work.
And more days out of the week,you know, five days out of the
week, it's going to be, you'regetting up at seven on the
(06:00):
weekends.
You're going to get up at nine.
That's fine.
You know, they, they can startto understand that, but when
they've come to depend on youbeing there 24 seven, it is very
hard for them to, to break thathabit.
So we really suggest when youget home, letting them be more
than you're playing with them orbeing in their face.
(06:20):
And that's true for the firsttime.
Yeah, well, I mean, and youestablish your routine because
even if you do get a dog on theweekend, you want to get them up
like you would on a work daybecause you want to establish
that routine.
This is the routine that we'regoing to have moving forward,
but yeah, people don't want todo that because they want to
(06:41):
sleep in.
Pate (06:42):
So you better get up
jme (06:43):
what's beneficial for you and what's beneficial for the
dog.
And Pate's right.
It would make sense that youshould get up at seven o'clock
on Sunday.
After you've got your dog onSaturday and try and get them
used to the routine already,
Pate (06:55):
right?
And then another thing is thatwe do a lot of crate training
with our dogs Because that isthe one thing that is going to
be kind of like a stable or anorm for them they're used to
being in a foster home in acrate and and then they may See
(07:19):
a crate in their new home andthey already know they they're
already trained to the crate.
So they're like, oh, this is myroom, you know They don't where
I eat.
This is yeah,
jme (07:30):
they they don't have to look at the doors and be like,
which one's mine Hey, right,they look at the crate and
they're like, oh I go in hereand it makes them feel safe It
makes them feel happy.
So again being transported tosome some if you just got
dropped off at someone's familyhouse in a country you didn't
You know, speak the language andyou're just sitting there and
(07:50):
the whole family is runningaround and, you know, talking
and doing all those things thatyou don't know where you fit in.
A crate helps a dog know wherethey fit in.
Pate (07:58):
Right.
And also it helps establish thatnumber one question.
Is this dog housebroken?
You don't want a, you don't wantto give a dog too much freedom
at the beginning because youdon't want to take stuff away
from them.
So what you want to do when Isay it's like bootcamp, I mean,
you are very strict at thebeginning.
You're very not militant, butyou know, like we wake up this
(08:22):
time, we eat at this time, we goto the bathroom at this time and
you keep the dog with you.
You don't let the dog run aroundthe house.
Make Mary because they don'tknow They're gonna wreak havoc.
Yo, they don't know where thatbackdoor bathroom is
jme (08:38):
Well, and you don't want to like start them on a thing, you
know pattern where if they'rescared And they, they don't know
what's going on and they arefearful that they start peeing
in the house because they'rescared.
So this is, this tends to avoidthat because most dogs won't pee
in their crate unless they're apuppy and they're just learning.
That's a different story.
But most adult dogs don't wantto pee where they are.
(09:00):
So why get started giving themso much freedom when you're.
Like chances are that's not whatthey want or need and you're
just gonna have to take it backand start over again So just
start with the rules don't easeinto anything.
There is no easing into itThey're very black and white
start with the rules enforce therules and they will learn them,
Pate (09:22):
right?
And then once you once you starttrusting them, you know that
they're not going to you know,eat your walls Pee and we gotten
there yet?
We're only three days.
No, no, no.
Right.
But we're still talking aboutthe three days.
Is that you want to be so strictthat you don't give them, like,
this freedom.
Because if you give themfreedom, then they may sneak off
(09:44):
and have an accident in thehouse.
And then you have created a badhabit for them.
Unknowingly.
Right?
So, yeah.
So, that's why, you know, yourfirst three days, you're going
to be very strict with them.
And then your, this strictnesscontinues for the next three
weeks, because the three weeksis when you estab, when the dogs
in their head establish and knowthat schedule.
jme (10:09):
Can we call it structure instead?
I think people will, um,
Pate (10:13):
Boundaries.
jme (10:14):
Structure and boundaries.
Very structured.
Yeah.
Pate (10:16):
What did I say?
jme (10:17):
Strictness.
Pate (10:18):
Oh, well, yeah.
Because I was thinking about,you know, I was thinking
military, because you know howthe military, you get up at this
time and you, you know.
jme (10:26):
Yeah, which, I mean, I understand it, like, we want you
to be strict with yourstructure, but what we're
talking about is.
Pate (10:31):
You can have some leniency.
jme (10:32):
Is.
Yeah.
They can't free flow like wecan, so you need to construct
how their day is going to lookand, and they, all they want is
to know what's going to happennext.
It's just like kids.
It's,
Pate (10:45):
I mean, they are kids.
They say that their intellect islike, what, a two to three year
old.
jme (10:49):
Yeah.
Pate (10:50):
Unless it's a border collie, like an actual working
line.
jme (10:53):
Yeah.
So they just want to know what,what's expected of them.
And, and when you are very blackand white about that.
And very consistent about thatand you create that structure
from the beginning, then youwill be better off and your dog
will be better off.
So, so then we're at, threeweeks.
So three weeks they're startingto understand like what the
(11:17):
routine is, how things aregoing.
They might be trying different,strategies, I guess, to see
where they can, what they canget away with, what they can't.
This is why it's important tohave that structure.
So, why don't you tell them,what the three week mark is
about?
Pate (11:34):
Well, the three week mark is for them to feel a little bit
more settled because of thestructure, right?
They know what to expect.
They're not, they, if they hadanxiety at the beginning, they,
you should start seeing theanxiety lessen as they know what
to expect from you.
They've kind of accepted you as,you know, Hey, I'm a part of
(11:56):
this pack.
I know you, there's like sometrust involved, you know,
jme (12:00):
they belong.
Pate (12:00):
The bonding has started.
It's not a hundred percentthere.
So don't think that you're goingto go and, you know, have a
hundred percent recall in thebackyard.
Have, you know, like.
Oh, let's go to dog parks andyeah, just don't,'cause the
recall's not there.
The bond's not there at threeweeks.
jme (12:17):
So actually, when I asked what not to do at three days,
don't go to the dog dog park.
Go to the dog park, don't takethem to shopping.
Don't do all these things thatare really fun for people to do,
but it's just too overwhelmingfor most dogs.
And this is true.
Again, no matter what kind ofdog you get, no matter where you
get them it, this is the.
(12:38):
The general rule and the way tohelp them adjust in a healthy
and confident way.
Pate (12:43):
Right.
Yeah.
Like I said, I mean, you mayhave that unicorn dog who is Mr.
Adventure seeker, easy flow.
Well, you know, I loveeverybody.
Everyone loves me, but that'snot the majority.
jme (12:58):
They're still going through the same process.
They're just doing it with alittle more grace.
Yeah, they're just, they have amore flexible personality,
Pate (13:05):
right?
jme (13:06):
So they're still going through this process.
They just care less about itbecause they're not, you know,
maybe not as anxious as anotherdog, but they are still doing
this process.
And that's the thing that youcan't, you know, you can't
forget is that the process isthe same for all the dogs,
Pate (13:21):
right?
jme (13:21):
It's just how extreme is this.
Anxiety or, you know, transitiongoing to be for, for the dog
that you just brought home.
Pate (13:29):
Right.
Yeah.
Three days is just to getacclimated to the space and the
people.
Three weeks is to get acclimatedto the schedule and when you'll
start seeing some behaviors asthey get a little bit more
comfortable, like jme wassaying, they might try to push
some boundaries.
(13:50):
You know, um, but
jme (13:52):
I call it letting their hair down.
It's like, you know, they wereon their best behavior and then
it's right around three weeksthat you'll start to see they're
like, Oh, well, I guess I'mgoing to really, you know, be
myself now because I'mcomfortable and that's when
you'll start, you possibly willstart seeing things like
resource guarding or.
Reactivity or something, becausethey were not comfortable before
(14:14):
that.
And now they're like, this is myplace, like, I can do this.
And they are going to try, justlike a child, to see what they
can get away with.
And it's not, it's notunnatural.
People do the same thing.
You do what gets results.
So if they, misbehave and youdon't have, structure.
They got away with it andthey're going to keep getting
(14:34):
away with it.
So, you know, that's why it'sreally important to keep this
structure up.
And it's not like you have totake all this time to do it.
It's just the order in which youdo things and remembering, you
know, ask them to sit beforeeating or, you know, just little
things like that where you arehelping them exercise some
control.
(14:55):
So that they aren't runningaround, you know, being insane
little hooligans, you know, kindof like my daughter when she was
trying to learn the ways of thegrocery store and you sometimes
get a treat and sometimes youdon't and when she would want to
treat and she wouldn't beallowed to have a treat at that
(15:17):
time and she threw herself onthe ground, throw a little
temper tantrum You know, um,dogs will do that too.
Yeah, and you have to leave thegrocery store.
If you don't know, you need toleave the grocery store.
All your, all your groceries,you just go.
And they realize, oh crap, thatwon't work.
If you keep, if you buy them atreat to shut them up, they will
continue to do it.
Pate (15:37):
Yep, exactly.
jme (15:38):
And so, yeah.
The right answer is no, yeah,just don't let them do this.
Pate (15:44):
Yeah, or yeah, or you walk away while they throw a temper
tantrum and then they come backlike, I didn't mean it.
jme (15:52):
Yeah, my mom did that to me.
She did it to me once and I waswhining about something and she
just walked right out of thestore and I was like, oh shit,
like, and, and I quickly ran outand she just, she was like, She
wouldn't even say anything tome.
And I was like, okay, lessonlearned.
I will never do that again.
Pate (16:12):
Right.
And then, and then that's whathappens sometimes with dogs.
That you have this little angel,and then at three weeks, you're
like, hmm, do I see a littlesass?
Is there a little bit of a devilin you?
Because they may, like jme said,they may start resource
guarding.
Like, this is my bed.
Or this is my toy.
(16:33):
They're going to see what theycan get away with because
they're not yet established inyour home, right?
jme (16:39):
It's like, it, it is exactly kind of testing the
boundaries of their limitations.
So
Pate (16:44):
And testing you,
jme (16:45):
yeah.
And if you correct them and, youknow, give them a consequence,
like, you know, if they'rebarking and you pick them up,
then.
They'll bark again.
And if you pick them up, they'llbark again.
And, and all of a sudden now thethird time, for sure, you have a
pattern.
So, that, that's another rule ofthree is that it takes dogs
(17:06):
about three times of doing thesame thing before it becomes,
something they've learned.
Pate (17:10):
Three is a magic number.
jme (17:11):
A pattern.
It really is.
Pate (17:13):
And then, and then after our three weeks are established,
then you've got three months,right?
jme (17:20):
Oh, am I taking on three months?
So by the time it's threemonths, they, they do feel like
this is their home.
They think that's pretty muchwhere they're going to be.
This doesn't mean, you know,like if they're three months in
a foster home, that they can'tgo to a new home or that they
can't adjust.
That's not what that means, butthey've accepted.
This is their fate, I guess.
(17:41):
And you know, they're probablypretty happy about it, but
they've accepted this as theirhome and they feel like they
belong.
More permanently, and this iswhere by this time you really
want to have established thoserules and structures and, and at
this time, this is when theyreally will be more bonded to
you.
But this also still doesn't meanyou can just let them off leash.
(18:02):
So yeah, don't think that.
Pate (18:04):
No, because then at three months we've, they have
established in their head, I'mhome.
And that can be a good thing orthat can be a bad thing, you
know, and hopefully during thistime after the three weeks where
they've adjusted to your house,you've started going to training
classes because at three monthswhen this is their home, we
(18:30):
talked about resource guardingtheir bed.
Sometimes they can resourceguard.
quote unquote protect theirpeople now because this is their
home.
This is their people, you know?
So it's not just, this is mybed.
This is my people.
This is my house.
And so you'll start seeing thatthey have totally let their hair
(18:53):
down.
And, your sweet angel baby may.
Now
jme (18:58):
yeah, that's that's the last of the layers that you
really peel back and that'spretty much who they're who they
are And and how they're gonnabehave and and so you're gonna
hope that you've you knowestablished a good pattern
Obviously with puppies, they arestill developing, so there's
another layer of complexity tothat that is, you know, how
they're going to develop,they're going to develop and
(19:20):
have fear stages, and they'regoing to start being afraid of
things that they weren't afraidof before, and this always
throws people for a loop, butit's, it doesn't have to do with
this 3 3 3 adjustment periodthat we're talking about.
Pate (19:31):
Yeah, and, and then not every dog is going to decide
that.
You know, these are my people.
I'm going to protect my peoplebecause if you are, you know,
the leader of the pack, so tospeak, they're happy with you
being their leader.
They want you to be theirleader.
They want someone to protectthem.
And
jme (19:48):
that's the irony, right?
Is that a lot of people, youknow, want to get a dog because
they're like, Oh, they'llprotect me.
But that dog is actually usuallymost comfortable when, when you
are protecting them.
Pate (19:57):
Exactly.
And.
It's not to say that at threemonths all of a sudden you're
going to have a demon dog atall.
No, not at all.
That's when you're going to seethat they've really come to the
conclusion that this is my placeand this is my people and you're
going to have, you know, thatbond.
(20:19):
And one thing like withfostering, cause you mentioned
the fostering at three months,they're, they're pretty, like
they're subtle.
This is great.
You know, some fosters have tokind of pull back on their
bonding and that's anotherreason why we, when like us in
particular, our rescue, we wantthe dogs to be crate trained and
(20:40):
not be in bed with the peoplebecause that's an extra bonding
that's, when you adjust to a newhome, it's like, that's yet
another adjustment that's notokay because it's not my people.
It's not.
jme (20:53):
Yeah, that's a really permanent choice that if you're
going to keep that dog forever,then you can make that choice,
but otherwise you're doing thedog a disservice,
Pate (21:02):
right?
jme (21:03):
It may be great for you, but you are doing the dog a
disservice,
Pate (21:07):
right?
And cause you want to, you wantto bond with them.
You want to bond with yourfoster dog, but not a hundred
percent.
jme (21:13):
Yeah.
You know, that's going to be forthe new family to do.
And if you've had a foster dogfor three months.
This is when people start to getpretty attached and they may
think about adopting If that'san option for them for their
family, that's when they startto think about it and But
sometimes they ask us if youknow, are they gonna be able to
(21:34):
love another person again?
Pate (21:35):
Oh, yeah,
jme (21:36):
you know, what if they can't get along without me and
we're like don't flatteryourself too much.
Like,
Pate (21:41):
you did not just say that you ain't all that,
jme (21:45):
right?
Because no, what you've taughtthem is how to trust people.
What you've taught them is thatthey can be loved and they will
be more open to it the next timethey have this opportunity.
So even though they may have togo through this transition
again, it will actually beeasier because they know what to
expect.
Pate (22:03):
Right.
Yeah.
It's not hard to move a fosterto another, a forever home and
they'll have to adjust for threemonths and they've already
adjusted for three months.
We've seen how successful thatis.
So adjusting to a new home forthree months with people who are
focused on them a hundredpercent is not that hard for the
(22:26):
dogs.
I mean, dogs are very adaptable.
Um, that's, that's, I mean,that's one of the saving graces
of, of dogs in general is thatthey are very adaptable.
jme (22:35):
Yeah, and resilient.
Pate (22:36):
So resilient.
I mean, I don't want to say Ihold a grudge.
I don't even know if I rememberlong enough to hold a grudge,
but Eva does.
Anyway, that's one of our fosterdogs.
But, the dogs can come fromhorrible situations and you're
like, Oh man, you got so brokenby someone, someone's failed you
(22:59):
like so hard.
How can you even get, how canyou even look at another person
without wanting to, you know,like punch them in the throat
for lack of a better, you know,but, but dogs are just like, Oh.
majority of dogs, like no matterwhat happens to them, they still
have that forgiveness.
And then that openness toreceive and want.
(23:24):
And give affection,
jme (23:26):
especially if they've been in a home, like even, honestly,
even in an abusive home, theymay be afraid of people, but
they're still going to, most ofthe time, they're going to try
and trust you.
They're going to try and findwho, who can they trust?
I would say it's, you know, dogsthat have grown up on the
streets that haven't grown upwith people that are going to be
less trustworthy and much harderto, get them to trust you in
(23:47):
general.
Pate (23:47):
Right.
Cause they speak more dog thanpeople.
jme (23:49):
Well, and, and.
Chances are they've survivedthat long either because they
avoided the right kind of peoplewhereas the dogs that maybe get
saved, they find the right kindof people, but you know, just
like people, dogs are going totrust in different ways, but I
will say it, even a dog that'sbeen severely abused,
Pate (24:09):
which we've seen,
jme (24:10):
yeah, they live more in the moment.
So, while we have seen PTSD,it's pretty rare, really, that
you can't overcome it.
Pate (24:18):
Right.
jme (24:19):
And so, you know, it's really important for you to know
that, you know, even if your dogdid have a rough past, there's a
better chance that they aregoing to turn it around and
recover, than they're not,
Pate (24:31):
right.
jme (24:32):
And it doesn't mean that they're going to have, you know,
lasting symptoms of that.
Especially if you create a newsafe environment for them, if
you run into a situation where,they're experiencing abuse
again, but you know, hopefullythat's that's not the case But
yeah, Dogs are pretty resilientand they really they want to
(24:55):
they want to move forward It'speople that have such a hard
time moving forward,
Pate (24:58):
right?
Yeah, like we we kind of getstuck in our past a lot But
dogs, they take it day by day,one step forward.
Stormy, I don't know if youremember Stormy.
She was a Catahoula Shepard mix,like an Aussie Shepard mix that
we had from California.
A friend of mine from collegewas doing her own kind of
(25:20):
rescuing, and pulled her fromLancaster, and her face was
buried in the wall.
She wouldn't look at anything, Imean, she was the most shut down
dog.
And then, when I first got her,seriously, like, three days, she
was not moving, she was so sick,she almost died.
I had to like really, reallyforce feed her.
(25:44):
It was just a lot, in therecuperation process for her.
And she was an older girl.
Puppies and younger dogs are,are able to kind of get over
like that kind of traumabonding, I guess.
But she got very, very bonded tome and she was an old girl.
So I was just like, you knowwhat, you're not, you're not
(26:06):
leaving.
But she, I mean, she was happy,like after all the trauma that
she's, she'd been through, shewas a happy old lady.
When she was with us and, andthat just tells you that dogs
can just overcome so much in theright environment with the right
people.
(26:27):
Could I have like adopted herout?
I don't know.
I didn't choose to.
So, but we have had like seniorsthat have been brought to the
shelters, that the people havejust discarded.
And I'm sure there's a littlebit of sadness, but then they
bond with their new people.
I mean, these are seniors who'velived an entire life possibly
(26:51):
with another family, but theyare still able to love another
family just as deeply.
I can't think of any dog fosterdog that I've had that hasn't
bonded with me.
I was going to say we should addthe three minute rule too,
because, when you go to theshelter and you get a dog and
you know, you put them in yourcar and like, maybe you've not
(27:12):
even touched them yet, but thenyou go to the vet.
And they act like you're theirbest friend and yeah, and that's
a trauma bonding right there.
jme (27:21):
And they're like, they're like, I love you Protect me.
Pate (27:24):
You're the lesser of two evils.
jme (27:26):
I was like, I don't even know you yet I'm like, we've
known each other for like 10minutes.
No, no, you're my person.
Pate (27:31):
You're my best friend forever
jme (27:33):
So yeah, so it's funny because that you know, the one
person that they Had familiarfor the car ride.
That's the person that they'relike, okay, I know you,
Pate (27:44):
right.
jme (27:44):
I know you.
Pate (27:45):
And that's what we talk about.
Like when we train is, sharingthe trust.
jme (27:49):
I experienced that really hardcore.
It was truck, truck stop.
Um, he,
Pate (27:55):
Oh, blue blues.
jme (27:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we were creating a pattern,trying to get him to trust new
people and the foster mom wouldhand the leash to the person.
The person would do a littleroutine and then they'd hand the
leash back to the foster.
Then the foster would hand it toa different person.
And I broke the rule I tried totake the leash from the other
(28:16):
person and the dog would not gowith me.
The dog would only go with meonce the leash was transferred
back to the foster and then hesaw me take the leash from her.
Then he went with me.
Pate (28:29):
Instead of her giving you the leash.
jme (28:30):
Yeah, because I just took it and I skipped it going back
to the foster mom.
He was just like, my mom did nothand you that leash.
I don't know who you are.
I'm not going with a stranger.
Pate (28:40):
Right.
jme (28:40):
And then also I was just being, I wasn't doing it on
purpose, but I was dumb and Ibroke the pattern and he just
stopped and he was like, you'redoing it wrong.
And he didn't want to go with mebecause I did the routine wrong.
Pate (28:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and another thing is likewith the three, three, three
rule, the reason why that isspoken about more is that it's
not necessarily that dogs havetrauma or whatever, but some
dogs may be under socialized.
There's a lot of reasons whydogs are shy or scared.
That's not the point to go intohere, but the fact is, That the
(29:13):
3 3 3 rule kind of helps thoseshy dogs center and you don't
overwhelm them by doing toomuch.
And then just to be realistic inyour expectations.
You know, like too much, toosoon, that's not a good thing.
jme (29:29):
And no, it's not for cats either, like opening up your
giant house to them.
They prefer, you know, verysmall world, small introductions
to the home.
And it's really the same withdogs, you know.
We've had people who take, alittle five pound chihuahua and
they have literally a 5, 000square foot house.
And the dog is terrified becauseit's so big.
It just doesn't even know whatto do with it.
(29:49):
So, we'll say it again and we'vesaid it before.
You know, the, the last thingthey need is more freedom,
Pate (29:56):
right?
Yeah.
jme (29:57):
They need more structure,
Pate (29:58):
right?
jme (29:59):
And that will make them happier,
Pate (30:01):
right?
Yeah.
jme (30:02):
When they're happier and better behaved, then you'll be
happier.
Pate (30:05):
Exactly.
The three, three, three ismostly adult dogs because
puppies, that's a wholedifferent, that's a whole
different topic to discusspuppies because their brains.
They're clay.
They're being molded.
So you're molding them all thetime.
But when you have an adult dog,they have a personality already.
(30:26):
They have experience in theworld.
You know, they, they have, theyhave their own expectations,
their own fears, things likethat.
It still applies, but not sostrictly.
I mean, well, I mean, yeah,because you're growing with them
the entire time becauseeverything you do with them
should be structured.
Yeah.
Yeah.
jme (30:45):
Like you're creating the routine.
You're creating the routine fortheir life for the
Pate (30:50):
yeah.
jme (30:50):
Whereas an adult dog has had some experience and they
have a perspective and theyhave, you know, you know,
somebody did it this way.
Somebody did it this way.
They can adapt.
They can adapt just fine to howyou do it.
But you just have to show themhow you do it.
But, you know, a lot of timestoo, we're separating them from
their siblings.
And, you know, those first threenights are probably going to be
(31:12):
pretty hard.
The three, the three rule reallydoes apply for that.
And it does apply.
It just is probably a littleless obvious.
Pate (31:20):
It's different.
And the thing is with the three,three, three rule with them is
that your first three nights maybe a little hard, but they are
going to glom onto you a lotfaster, then adult dog, right?
And then sometimes I find thatadult dogs, a lot of times, not
just sometimes.
A lot of times a fearful adultdog will glom on to one person
(31:43):
and then that's when that oneperson has to share the trust
with everyone else in thefamily.
But like with a puppy, they, youknow, they're going to glom on
to the person who is payingattention, is paying attention
to them, to them the most.
But if there's other people inthe family and you're paying
attention to that puppy, thatpuppy is going to be just as
affectionate with you, you know?
(32:03):
But when you get to like older.
under socialized dogs or a puppythat's going through a fear
stage at like six months orwhatever then you know it'll be
a little bit different thangetting a young puppy in your
home but not that whole glommingand learning process and
(32:24):
everything and then the trainingwith the puppy is just different
than if you have like an adultdog who is like fearful and Shut
down.
It's a totally different,scenario with them.
It's raining.
Very hard.
jme (32:42):
Mm hmm.
I think we've coveredeverything.
So, in general, our, our kind offood for thought is You know,
you want to give the dogeverything, but hold your horses
and slow down and like do it ontheir terms and, and do it with
(33:03):
consciousness and, andforethought and take the time to
let them be alone, take the timeto let them decompress, take the
time to, create a routine thatthey can rely on, structure that
they can rely on.
Okay.
If you don't want them on thecouch, start that the minute
they get home.
That kind of thing.
And the more consistent you are,honestly, the better your
(33:26):
relationship will be with yourdog and the stronger bond you'll
have.
Pate (33:30):
Yeah.
Exactly.
Some shelter dogs and rescuedogs are shy and fearful.
And for whatever reason in theirpast, and they need that time
from you and that patience fromyou to show their true selves.
That's why we say three daysjust to get used to the house,
(33:53):
three weeks to get used to theschedule that you've set and
three months for them to thinkthat you are their family, that
this is their home.
So if a dog that you get is notlike your best friend in a week,
be a little realistic,basically.
(34:14):
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I'm not goingto be your friend in a week.
jme (34:17):
I would like to say too that, it doesn't matter where
the dog comes from.
Pate (34:21):
Yeah.
jme (34:22):
Because a dog could come from a breeder and.
And be completely unsocialized,we've seen that before and
people try and tell us in onebreath that that's a good
breeder.
And then we see this completelyunsocialized dog and I'm like,
no, they are completelyunsocialized so it's like you
locked a kid in a closet untilthey were five and now you're
letting them into the real worldand expecting that they're going
(34:43):
to understand things.
So, yes.
When they're in rescue,sometimes they've had
experiences.
They're not always negativeexperiences, though, either.
So, you know, there are plentyof happy go lucky dogs that are,
adults that are ready to moveinto your home.
And maybe that you won't seeextreme signs of this.
But, but the problem is, is thatpeople think that they need to
(35:04):
buy a puppy, of a certain breedto get the dog they want.
But then they are the ones thatscrew up.
They're good loving families,but they've screwed up on
socialization, they've screwedup on training, and then when
they're a year old, you know,now they're in the shelter, I
mean this is what's happeningright now especially, but now
they're in the shelter, and theydid not come from an abusive
(35:25):
home, they came from a lovingfamily that didn't do enough
with the dog.
And so, you're just basicallytaking a one year old dog and
starting from scratch in termsof training.
A lot of these dogs come fromloving homes where people just
did not understand theexpectations of having that kind
of dog, or having the dog ingeneral.
Right.
(35:45):
Training and socializing.
Pate (35:47):
How much time and effort, you know.
What I always tell people whenthey get a puppy from us we're
giving you a solid puppy and youare the one who's going to take
Make or break him as an adultfor him to be a good adult or
her That's going to be on you.
So there's you know, yourgenetic component But there's
(36:12):
also that, you know that natureversus nurture
jme (36:15):
well, but there's very few dogs that come out of you know,
the womb with a screw loose ifyour dog is messed up as an
adult, chances are more oftenthan not that you are the one
that created that.
And it is not something theywere born with.
Pate (36:28):
Right.
jme (36:28):
There are cases where, you know, maybe they were born with
it.
I, even then I would say ittends to be more a breed trait
or something that they didn'tlike or weren't expecting I do
really think though that you cannever underestimate the amount
of impact you can make on yourdog and you can make more of an
impact than any experience thatthat dog has had in the past.
Pate (36:51):
Right.
And like I said, it's.
It's small.
It's actually not that muchgenetics because they found like
with these clone dogs orwhatever nature versus nurture,
right?
The, the clone dogs, the exactsame DNA of the previous dog,
but not the same personalitybecause you cannot replicate
(37:11):
every step of that puppyhood toget that same personality.
jme (37:17):
That's a good, bolster for the whole.
idea of you, you are responsiblefor the development of your
puppy.
That is really interestingbecause, yeah, I never really
thought about that.
Pate (37:30):
Yeah.
Because you can clone your dog,but you're not going to clone
your dog.
jme (37:34):
That's a whole thing that I don't really understand
Pate (37:35):
like it's son or it's daughter, you know?
Well, like when you clone,
jme (37:40):
I don't know, but I guess I don't understand why people
actually think.
Even if the physical componentswere the same, I would never
actually believe it was the samedog, or the same, it would have
the same personality.
Pate (37:51):
Okay, then, then we're just gonna go down a whole,
like, rabbit hole of, like,soul, right?
Because that's not the soul ofyour previous dog.
And it's an interesting the factthat we can even do it is like
cray cray.
jme (38:04):
Yeah, that is weird
Pate (38:05):
That's all like weird sci fi shit.
Maybe that's something we talkabout.
We're rescue shit, not sci fishit, okay?
jme (38:13):
All right.
Well, I guess we've wrapped itup for the day.
I'm jme.
Pate (38:17):
I'm Pate.
jme (38:18):
Rock on.
Pate (38:18):
Rescue on.
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