8 | Tacos or Pickles? ... Finding Your True North - RESET with Tonya

Episode Transcript
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Tonya J. Long (00:07):
Welcome home, friends.
I'm Tonya Long, and this isRESET, where purpose meets
possibility.
Each week, we shareconversations with thought
leaders, innovators and thedreamers and doers who are
reshaping the future of work,technology, longevity and
purpose.
Whether you're navigating AI'simpact, reimagining your career

(00:32):
or searching for deeper meaning,you're in the right place.
So settle in, open your mindand let's explore what happens
when purpose meets possibility.
Hello everyone, and welcome toRESET where purpose meets
possibility.
So what happens when acorporate project manager trade

(00:57):
billion-dollar implementationsfor a mission to help small
businesses thrive?
Well, let's talk about it.
Today.
On this episode of RESET, weexplore the power of small,
intentional changes with LisaTalbot, my new friend and the
founder of True North PMSolutions.
From managing corporatetransformations to helping

(01:20):
entrepreneurs streamline theiroperations, Lisa's journey shows
how technical expertise can bere-imagined to serve a deeper
purpose.
So join us for an inspiring andI think it will be fun
conversation about finding yourtrue north, about the impact of
small changes and how corporateexperience can be transformed

(01:45):
into meaningful entrepreneurship.
So, whether you're feelingstuck in a corporate role or
seeking ways to grow your smallbusiness, I think Lisa's story
offers practical wisdom fornavigating change while staying
true to your values.
Lisa, welcome.
I am so excited to have youhere.
The founder of True North, whata great name.

(02:08):
You have like 15 plus years ofcorporate project management
expertise, and what I love isit's across all verticals.
You've worked at agriculture,insurance, nonprofits, major
conglomerates like Walmart.
You bring technical acumen andhuman understanding to process

(02:30):
improvement.
Tell me what it's like workingwith smaller businesses after
you've spent so much timeworking on large projects.

Lisa Talbot (02:41):
Yeah, thanks, tanya , thanks for having me here
today.
I'm really excited about ourconversation and there's a lot
to be learned from bigcorporations to small businesses
and there's there's been a lotof carryover that I didn't
anticipate from from kind ofthat corporate life to my own

(03:03):
fur, life to my own fur, and I'ma lifelong learner and it's
been really bringing me joy tocontinue to learn about and
navigate these small businesseswhile still having the tools
that I gained in corporateAmerica and helping small

(03:23):
businesses that wouldn't havehad this viewpoint or have
acumen that I've been able tobring to them to really have
them focused on what broughtthem to their business to begin
with.
You know a lot of people gointo business not thinking they
need to know IT, which intoday's world probably you can't

(03:44):
get away from systems andcomputers, and so they get
really boggled and frustratedand burnt out having to navigate
that space.
And so it feels good when I cancome in and kind of take that
burden off of their shouldersand have them really focus on

(04:04):
why they got into business inthe first place.

I love it.
I appreciate that what you doallows them to operate inside
their zones of genius, right?
Someone who started a businessyou know most often is
passionate about what they'redoing, but there are so many
things beyond our passions thatit takes to make a business run
that it back oh yeah is, is andand you know, I remember I mean

(04:31):
I'm pretty good with tech andI'm pretty good with visuals.
But I remember breaking me intotears when I was trying to do
like one of my first websitesbecause I was just trying to
move an image a quarter of aninch, you know, to get it off
the edge of the screen and Ispent an hour doing it and I've
scrapbooked and I've launchedhundreds of products and I

(04:54):
couldn't move the image and Ithought I will never get this
hour back and all the research Ihave done to figure that out
will never be knowledge I willapply again.
That's.
One of my challenges is I'm ado-it-yourself farm girl, so I
feel challenged in paying forother people's time when it's

(05:15):
taken out of my grocery or shoemoney.
So hats off to you for helpingfind those smaller businesses
without the expertise.
You've talked about how there'sso much.
You use the word carryover andI like that because there really
is.
The largest businesses havelearned so much.
You were doing, I think, likemulti-million dollar

(05:39):
implementations.
So, given that you've workedwith by several small companies,
I'm curious what first helpedyou recognize the need for
change with yourself after 15years of working in corporate?
What?
What led to the change?

yeah, I think it's um.
You know, I, I think it was.
It was happening behind thescenes and I didn't know it.
If I was to, like you know, 20hindsight is 2020.
And so I think it was really,you know, dropping my daughter
off at daycare and crying allthe way into the office and then

(06:24):
spending 15 minutes in thebathroom trying to get myself
presentable to get to work.
That really was the change, thatthis, and I really felt like
there was only two pathwaysthere was a corporate pathway
and there was a stay at home mompathway, and I didn't feel like
I'd sit in either one of thosepathways pathway, and I didn't

(06:48):
feel like I'd sit in either oneof those pathways.
And but it took me, you know,five years to understand that I
could create my own pathway, andor I could, you know, it's not
even my own pathway.
Millions of people have donethis, you know, before me have
created, you know, their ownbusinesses or their own way of,
you know, making money andsupporting their family, and but
I think it just took me sometime.

(07:10):
You know, have risk managementright.
As a project manager, Ievaluate all the risks and I
look at it from a different, adifferent lens.
And so I think it was, you know,probably just in the last year
or two, that I said like I hadbeen thinking about all the
risks of doing it, and I thoughtwhat is the risk of not doing
it?
You know?

(07:30):
which really was like the, thechange.
That was like, if I don't dothis, if I go in one of these
two paths, I wouldn't be reallytrue to myself and I wouldn't be
showing up as the person andthe mom and the wife that I
really wanted to be.
And so that was kind of themoment that I thought, ok, how

(07:51):
can I, how can I carve this ownpathway to for myself?
And and that brings me joy andI think that's probably been the
surprise piece in my riskmanagement it wasn't ever about
joy, right, it was about whatcould I do, what could I make
money at, and so I ended upadding what do I enjoy doing,

(08:15):
what am I good at and what can Imake money?
And that was where kind of theVenn diagram came together and
what I've been moving forwardwith since.

I don't want to minimize what you've done, but
you're right that I think yousaid millions of people have
made this transition, but Ithink there are tens of millions
more who want to make thetransition and will be in the
coming years.
You know, you and I spoke in aseparate conversation about the
impact of AI on the workforce,and that's actually why I have

(08:54):
this podcast, because I thinkthere are changes in the
workforce paradigm coming forall of us and I want people to
get comfortable with it, to getcomfortable with change, to know
they can do it.
So you're actually the perfectguest because you already made
that transition and you can helpother people understand that it
is.
While scary and you knowuncertainty is harder than tough

(09:19):
times, lots of times but youcan help people understand that
it's doable in a very relatableway.
You've been in this five yearsnow, I think.
So what?
What do you know now that youwish you had understood sooner,
before you made the transition?

Yeah, I think.
Um, so my firm's been open forjust a year.
So it took me about five yearsto figure out what I needed to
do.
Since my daughter, since thatcrying moment in the car yes,
yes, a letter to my younger selfwould be that there's really no

(09:59):
right or wrong way to do it.
Like I felt like I was doingall the right things, you know,
like I was going up thecorporate ladder, I was, you
know, able to get on board.
You know, I felt like I wasdoing all the right things, but
I didn't feel right.
And I feel like, if I wouldhave known that previously, that
I should do more what feelsgood versus what I think should

(10:19):
be done, I probably would havelanded in a different spot.
You know, now, but, and then,maybe, having the confidence, I
still, you know, have thatimposter syndrome that is, like
you know, am I going to getanother client?
Am I gonna, you know, am Igonna transform their work and
they're going to be proud of thework that I did?

(10:40):
You know a lot of impostersyndrome that I still battle
today, but it's just those, likeyou know, small iterative steps
that I can take myself, likethrough.
You know, it's kind of what myfirm is about is just making
small changes and I try to dothat personally as well.
As you know, what is one stepthat I can do today?

(11:03):
Maybe find a client, you know,maybe to have that, you know,
imposter syndrome kind of goaway.
So it's, it's iterative.
So I, I think other peoplecould definitely start small and
you know, if they're feelingstuck is to.
You know, mindset is a lot ofwhat I think I just talked about

(11:29):
with my confidence and myimposter syndrome.
And then, you know, tryexperiments.
You know, do you like doing adifferent project?
Can you get a nice, do a classin it?
Can you?
You know, while you're in yourcurrent job, you know, so you
don't have to do, do this hugelike burn, burn what you're
doing right now.
Down to the ground, you cankind of experiment and be

(11:51):
iterative on it and say I'mgonna learn a new, I'm gonna
learn a new skill or get acertificate, or maybe I'm gonna
do a side hustle, maybe I'mgonna you see if my passion
really is marketable.

So I think it's doable, I think it's just having
the confidence and maybe justlike baby steps, to see if you
can.
You know if that income can nowtake over, for you know your
main income.

There's a, there's an old adage about change is the
only constant.

Yeah, and I think that we all academically
understand that's true, yet weresist it and I think so many
people.
They know better but they seechange as permanent.
You know if I do.
X then I'm going to be stuckwith X.
So I can't, I just can't, youknow, I just can't take that

(12:48):
leap when it's not a leap toyour point, it's an experiment,
it's a tiny step, it'sevaluating whether something
else works, and so I think yourwords are wise, not to like wrap
so much around um the change,just try new things.
Um, I know, in our corporatework, um, that's not something

(13:14):
that's taught.
Often we, we talk about failingfast, but that's garbage.
Or just succeed fast, or else,you know, nobody believes that
you get to fail fast, and I've,and I've worked for wonderful
leaders who still weren't verypatient with the failing.
They weren't very like oh, youknow, we figured out that

(13:35):
doesn't work.
Uh, I've never, you know, andI've always kept that in mind
when I'm leading program levelwork, because you know you do
need to lean into things thatare difficult or unusual in
order to make headway on thingsthat are remarkable, and
sometimes those aren't meant towork, but you learn from them

(13:57):
and bring that into playelsewhere.
Um, are there any lessons fromcorporate that you've had to
push back and battle?
Because working with smallerbusinesses is is is a different,
it's a different mindset, it'sa different approach.

It is different, it's a different mindset, it's a
different approach, but there'sum, it's almost like it's just
smaller, really right.
It's almost like it's justsmaller, really right, like
there's a lot of things thatsmall businesses and corporates
have in common, it's just thescale is much smaller.
You know, small businesses havedone awesome work to get

(14:39):
themselves here.
You know like they understandtheir business inside and out
and and so, but they alsounderstand there's a pain point,
but it is so narrow focusedthat they don't understand
what's like upstream anddownstream from that pain point
and I think from corporate, thatwas very similar, right, you
change one thing, one divisionchanges one thing and they don't

(15:03):
realize that it actuallyimpacts.
You know all these otherdivisions that they don't even
speak to, right?
So that's my life.
So there's a lot of thosepieces that you could relate
right back into small businessesor nonprofits and it's just on
a smaller scale of what we'redealing with.

(15:25):
And so I definitely continue tolearn and grow and also I'm
like, oh yeah, I remember doingthat in corporate that one time,
like that was hard but weworked through it, and so that
can kind of give me theconfidence that I need in the
small business to say hey, Iknow this is hard, and I think

(15:51):
the other thing you werementioning too is just like
change is inevitable.
But I think it's hard whenyou're making decisions too, of
like if I make this decision, Ihave to stick with it, right.
It's like no, you don't juststick with it.
Actually, you can change it atany point, and I've had to learn
that even now, every time Imake a decision, I have it's
like the weight of the world ison that decision, and then I
think, oh, I mean, if it goeswrong or if it goes sideways, I

(16:15):
can always come back and make adifferent decision and see if
that works.
Or maybe the timing isdifferent and that same decision
works better now.

That is so wise.
In my work leading leaders andin my work in corporate, what I
saw was that indecision was thegreatest failure inside company
leadership.
It wasn't executing poorly.
I know, because I've sat in thechair, that those decisions all

(16:47):
have consequences and impacts.
There's going to be real peopleimpacted and real people not
happy.
On both sides of the decisionjust sat on things because of
the fear of the impact of whatthose decisions meant to the

(17:11):
business.
And I think it's a much biggerflaw to not make a decision,
because when the entirecompany's kind of being held
hostage trying to decide howwe're going to restructuring is
a lot of what I've been involvedwith.
So so those decisions areconsequential and difficult, but
having having thousands ofpeople kind of waiting for a

(17:34):
shoe to drop paralyzes yourentire company and so I want to
go back to that impostersyndrome thing that you
mentioned.
You know people have startedsaying for two years now they've
been saying that's not theright words.
Fine People have been saying Idon't.
I've seen very fierce women sayI don't understand imposter

(17:56):
syndrome.
I've never had impostersyndrome.
That's well and fine.
Good for them.
I think that a lot of peopleimposter syndrome is as simple
as I've not been here before,I've not done this in quite this
situation before and I careabout the impact of what I
create, and so I hesitate and Iquestion you know, should I be

(18:20):
doing this?
Should I be doing this?
I think we have to as leaders.
I can imagine you coming from acorporate mindset into a
smaller business mindset and wewant to be careful to help our
clients avoid imposter syndrome.
You know, when I work withsmaller clients, having been in,

(18:52):
you know five, six, five, six,seven billion dollar companies I
don't want to lead with.
I know it all because I've beenin multi-billion dollar
companies and you know your arris a fraction um.
So I feel like I spend a lot ofmy time building people up in
order for them to be the bestselves they can be for their
business.
Have you experienced that withyour transition and with helping
leaders understand your valueand know that you're looking at

(19:16):
them and not at just yourhistory?

Yeah, that's really powerful.
And the way that you you'resaying it, I don't think I would
have looked back and said yes,right away.
I think, when you're saying, Iwas like I don't think that's
what I'm doing, but the morethat I've been thinking about it
, just from you asking that itis.
Yeah, I definitely go in as,like, I am not the expert here.

(19:47):
I might have seen some thingsand I think that's the beauty of
you know, of going into newindustries.
You know, small businesses canrain.
My client list has ranged fromauthors to doggy daycares to
franchise owners, you know.
So it's never the same piece.

(20:08):
And when I was in corporate, itwas like, okay, we want to
implement this new system.
And it was like, okay, let mejust let me talk to this person
and this person.
And it was very, it wasn'tcookie cutter, but it was very,
it was very similar from oneproject to the next, whereas
this is, um, could be, uh, youknow, a big overhaul of

(20:28):
implementing, you know, a SaaSsolution for a business owner or
it's, you know, streamliningsome apps that they already have
that are talking together.
So, yes, I think, I think, withjust knowing that it's new every
time I'm, I'm almostorganically showing that I'm
here to learn and I do.
You know, part of my process isactually learning the business

(20:51):
too, because some of my failureinitially on was that they would
say this is the problem, thisis what I need help with, and
I'd say, okay, and we tacklethat one problem.
And even though in my head Iwas like, oh, I bet it's a huger
problem, but I'm going to makethem happy first and you know,
really focus on this.
And it's kind of bit me becauseit's like, oh no, it's actually

(21:16):
.
We got to take a step back andkind of look at the whole
process and look at how thebusiness is operating and and so
, if it is like a physical, likein the dog daycare, uh, I did,
you know, kind of work as aattendant, you know, and asked a
bunch of questions and, yeah,to learn, and saw their sticky
notes and, you know, tried tounderstand what their business

(21:39):
was, and so, um, and even whenwe were doing you know, a
current state analysis, I, youknow, I was just kind of a note
taker.
They were telling me everything,you know, yeah, and just saying
, um, and you know, when theydid things, it was like, oh,
that's so awesome, you know,like, so I guess I was building
them up because I was like, gee,you know, like, know, like I'm

(21:59):
learning too, and I'm like, oh,it's genius, how did you think
of that, you know?
So I do think it is that it'sthat relationship building, it's
that you know, building them upthat, yes, they might have a
problem, but they have all theseother things that are working
for them, or that that theymight even not even notice

(22:19):
either, right, like they'reheads down trying to, uh, keep
their business afloat, theydon't realize, like, some of the
good things that they'rebringing.
And so when I step in and I'mable to even like pinpoint all
the great things that they'redoing.
I think that is a feather intheir cap and is building them
up, um, so I hope that I, thatI'm helping them with their

(22:41):
imposter syndrome.
I know that you are.

There was an article I think it was a
McKinsey article about a yearand a half ago and it made me
cringe when I saw the title,because the title was something
to the effect of why everycompany moving forward should
operate like a, like a softwarecompany, and I was like, oh you
know, because I already.
I mean, I'm from Tennessee, Ilive in the valley, but I see

(23:06):
posts from friends from highschool that say, why does
California think it's so special?
And so I.
I have that imposter syndromewhere I grew up on a tobacco
farm and now I do muchdifferently scaled things here.
But helping other peoplerealize their zones of genius.

(23:28):
I think we did learn things inour corporate careers that are
helpful and I see a lot of smallbusiness owners kind of
shrugging their shoulders andsaying what lisa knows won't fit
what I do, because lisa's workson really big things and I have
and I and I think that'simposter syndrome saying no, no,

(23:49):
no.
You know you don't understandmy doggy daycare.
You probably had no experiencewith the doggy daycare prior to
doing that program.
Uh, but it's the criticalthinking that we have about how
to look at the customer, how to,how to make sure processes and
systems talk with each other, tomake sure that things that can

(24:10):
be automated and repeatable areum, but there's a way to do it.
I believe believe that there's abig shift coming.
I've made that clear as AIautomates more and more.
But I believe there's suchvalue for people like you and me
to go out into the rest of theworld.
I just I just coached anextremely senior person from one

(24:34):
of the FANG companies last weekand I told her from one of the
FANG companies last week and Itold her.
I said go be a CEO of a CPGcompany or a clothing retail
company, get out of tech andapply your skills there, because
of everything you do will beremarkable.
It will be a differentframework of helping them
elevate and scale them.

(25:00):
Elevate and scale um and and Ibelieve there is so much value
with what we can do.
But all change comes back tothe the people challenge, to
working with people and keepingpeople whole in the process so
that they are involved,communicated with and um
satisfied that they have thestrengths to move it forward
when you step away from theproject.

So that's why I think that's where the.
That's where, like, the truemagic works right is when it
sticks.
You know, it's when the changesactually stick and the habits
change.
When the changes actually stickand the habits change and yeah,

(25:43):
so, yeah, it's.
It's when they get some ahamoments and I can do this or I
can't, you know, even when weget the habit to stick and they
kind of think back of, like whywere we doing it that way for so
long?
You know the those are kind ofthe fun moments that you know,
bring me joy too, of like, okay,we're making progress here.
We've made a few changes.

(26:06):
I think that, like the technicalpiece, the AI, I mean and I
think you've said this is thatit can be really scary and how
do we make AI and technology notscary and usable.
So it's not about completelytaking the place, it's about how

(26:27):
do we use it so that we can useAI appropriately and where it
makes sense.
But AI can't, you know, connectthe dots physically in the
doggy daycare, right, like thatstill needs a human person to
say, you know, when you walkover here to check someone in

(26:48):
and then walk over there toprint something out, like there
are two disconnected, you know,processes that we need to figure
out how they work together.
Right, right.

For what it's worth.
My brain is racing with thingsyou can do in a doggy daycare
around location sensors.

Yeah.

And you know and we realize we we can't go full
on with every single project,right, we have to tailor to the
culture and the readiness forscale.
What level is is?
Is the customer um, ready to goto um?
Yeah, you talked about um.
You have a philosophy aroundsmall changes and I think of you

(27:30):
as small changes, big impact.
How did that small changesphilosophy develop for you?

I think it, you know, it's really just been.
I wish I could say, like youknow, august 17th is when I
decided to start thinking thisway, but I think it's just been.

(27:59):
You know I'm I'm an avid runnerand so I've ran a few half
marathons and I've done some,you know, long distance swims,
and it's that you know I printout the training and you start
out with just three miles a day,or three miles, you know, and
then two miles.
You know you have this wholeschedule and, uh, you know you
cross them off and all of asudden you're doing 12 miles and

(28:20):
you're doing the race, and soit's just, it almost doesn't
feel like it's hard work.
You're just kind of, you know,making one mile, adding one mile
every so often, and so I thinkthat's it's really been organic
from kind of those pieces of mylife that uh, have trickled down
into.
You know also my you knowchange resistance of like okay,

(28:43):
I can't change it all, like Ican't overhaul everything, but I
bet, if I did this one thingand make it stick, then I can do
the next.
And so you know and I I've justbrought that to small businesses
and I think it came fromcorporate I probably could, you
know, dive deep into my brainand find some times where I made

(29:05):
a small but impactful piece.
But when you're dealing withthe clients that I have, you
know they don't have the bankaccount to do overhauls and to
stop you know kind of the workthat's going on, and so you do
have to find kind of creativeways to make changes that don't

(29:28):
necessarily, you know, likeuproot their whole business
pieces and so and again, justgoing back to like making it
stick, and so and and again,just going back to like making
it stick.
So if it is going to, you know,changing one thing is a lot
easier than changing everything.
And and you can eventually, youknow, you kind of, when we do

(29:48):
the analysis, we kind of, youknow we take all the pain points
, we're looking at it from likethe 10,000 view and we're saying
where are we going to get themost out of our efforts?
Right, like, is this one thebiggest problem or is this the
biggest problem or is this thebiggest impact problem?
Because it might be a reallybig problem but like the impact

(30:09):
is really low and so why tacklethat one?
So it is just.
You know, those are things.
Again, I'll go back like AIcan't figure that out right,
like AI can't figure it out yetanyway.
So you need that relationshipbetween the client and myself to

(30:30):
really make those decisions andfind out where we should, you
know, put the work where weshould, you know, put the work
Agreed.

I love the way you drew the comparison to your
personal.
You know personaltransformation and the parallel
to business transformation.
You're a runner amazing and aswimmer, and so you talked about
developing those plans that hadyou do incremental shifts in
your routines to get to thelevel of a marathon.

(31:01):
How do you get businesses tosee the value and similar
approaches, to crawl, walk, run,to starting small?
Do you have a story you'd liketo share about, about how you
helped a client understand thevalue of something that seemed

(31:22):
small but led to much longerhorizon um impact?

Yeah, gosh, there's like a few yeah.
Um, and I think that there'slike you could go from you know
one stream to the other, theother.
I I had a client that was justfed up, ready to pull you know
they're pulling all their hairand you know they were ready
just to like they were gonna puta pause on it.
So they, you know, dide-commerce and they were like

(31:52):
we're just I'm gonna stop allorders, I'm gonna stop
everything, because I need tolike redo this whole thing, okay
.
And then I could give you anexample where someone said like
I think we're good, it's painful, but like it's okay, like I'll
just deal with it.
You know, it makes me think ofthe Holy Grail.

Just a flesh wound, you know, and his arm's
like flailing off.
So Don't operate like flailingoff so um, it's just a flesh
wound.

I can't beat that left yeah, well, just live
without it, it's fine.
Yeah, um, and so I think if yougo to I think in both cases
that you know it it plays on alot of my uh, you know soft
skills, because I think how do?
You change someone that doesn'treally want to change you know

(32:40):
and show them hey yeah, how dowe do that?
to where it's like the otherside is like whoa, hold down,
like we can, you know, we cankeep the orders going like let's
really think about this um anduh.
So I think it is like um, likeit really depends on the person.

(33:03):
It is playing, it's buildingthat relationship of trust.
It is, you know, sometimesleaning in to say, you know,
I've seen this before and thisis how we got through it, like
kind of giving them that expertadvice or saying like we're in
it together so, like you know,if it doesn't work, we'll, we'll
continue to work on it.

(33:26):
I think that you know there'snever that ideal client where
you're like, oh, I'm going to goin and it's going to be, you
know, super easy and they'lljust follow my methodologies and
I'll be super quick and away wego.
But I think when you're, whenbusinesses are, can see that
small shift.
So whether you're ready to pullyour hair out and you know,

(33:49):
stop your business, versus likeyou're going to continue on, you
know, even though you're reallyclunking along, it's really
figuring out what their businessis and a lot of times it's.
You know, I have a data mindset.
I think about data differently.
You know for one individualthey were doing all their
communications by hand, so theywould sit on their couch and

(34:12):
text every night.
You know their clients the nextday, you know their clients the
next day and then you know andtext, you know the clients that
they already had and say hey,can you fill out this?
You know survey and scheduleyour next appointment and all
this.
And so I just said, like youknow, how long do you think that
takes you?
A week?
And it was, like you know, fiveplus hours.

(34:32):
It depends if the client textedback right away and they had to
like converse back and forthand her appointments were only
like an hour and a half to twohours and I was like okay, so if
you're spending eight hours,that's four clients.
Like you can't scale if you'respending that time with
communications.
And I think that was like theaha moment where she's like oh,

(34:54):
whatever, I'm just watching tv,you know, I'm sitting on my
couch.
It's not not really, you know,taken away from anything, but
it's taking away your energy,it's taking away time that you
could be with your family or,you know, like those things that
really bring you joy, um, andso I think it's just like it can
be that small of, like this ishow many clients you're unable

(35:17):
to have, or this is what theincome is coming in, um, that
can really make a profounddifference.
And we ended up putting youknow some you know it's a fairly
easy, some, you know automation, in that you know that
basically went from her calendarto her clients and back again
and have a calendar that herclients could schedule

(35:39):
themselves, so she wasn'tscheduling it anymore.
Yeah, so it can be.
Uh, I think maybe that's.
It is like it's the easy way togo.
If you can show them one easything, then they're more.
You know.

Adapt to keep coming with me on the journey
yeah, and in the example youjust gave, what immediately
flashed in my mind was thatwasn't just an advantage for her
to get out of her couchscheduling at night, but it was.
It was an improvement for hercustomers to see, for them to
have some agency in the process,because she could care less if

(36:14):
John moves from Tuesday toThursday.
Yeah, but for.
John to be able to do that onhis own and it be done and not
require the back and forth.
Those are changes with bigimpact on both sides.

And I probably wouldn't have rescheduled.
If I was John, I wouldn't haverescheduled because I would have
been like oh gosh, I'll justkeep it as Tuesday.

Yeah, or I'll just cancel and do this another
time, right, rather than say, oh, that's true.
Friction in the process causesloss, loss of interest, loss of
engagement, and those things areso easy for people like us to

(36:55):
see and automate, but otherpeople, like you said earlier,
that are in their flow, in theirprocess, and especially when
they've convinced themselves.
You know, I'm just sitting onthe couch with the kids watching
TV before we go to bed.
It's only a couple hours anight, but you know, it's not
just that couple of hours, it'sthe energy, so I love it.
I was also thinking we had aninteresting conversation when we

(37:18):
talked earlier about I don'tknow, you use chat GPT as a
thought partner, and you know Ido too.
Chat GPT is the first thing Isay hello to when I wake up Chat
GPT or CLUD, depending on whatI'm doing, but I'd love that you

(37:38):
use an LLM as a thought partner.
For me, the biggest transitionin going from corporate leader
to entrepreneur was the lack ofa team to brainstorm with, not
having people immediately athand to collaborate on
approaches with.
To collaborate on approacheswith.

(38:01):
So how are you helping withregard to ChatGPT, claude?
Whatever LLM suits you best foryour needs.
How are you helping smallbusinesses think about AI and
using things as simple asChatGPT without it being a
threat?

That's a really good question.
It is done tiptoeing, I think,because there is this scare, as
people have, is that it's goingto eliminate people or
businesses, or yeah, and I thinkthat showing them examples

(38:49):
within their industry is reallyhelpful to say, like you know, I
use chad gpt for a wide rangeof things, right?
So I think when you startshowing some ideas of that in
their sector or that's, you knowthose pain points, I think I

(39:12):
think I I've only had one clientthat's really been receptive to
AI as a thought partner, aassistant, and it they're they
were, you know.
Again, it's like that perfectclient, right, they're on the
edge, they know it, they knowwhat's happening.

(39:33):
How can I kind of be with itversus be against it?
And it is being aboutintentional, right.
So, again, they're a creativeperson.
They see themselves as, likeyou know, they don't want
ChatGPT to take away thecreative and I was like, well,
it's not, it doesn't have to,you don't have to ask it to take
away your creative part.

(39:54):
It's like let's take away someof these admin parts that are
not, you know, using your.
They're draining you.
You know, like let's use chatGPT on things that drain you,
versus like what you brings youjoy.
And so, I think, as as itevolved, as I evolved, as you

(40:14):
know, the solutions evolve.
I think AI will definitely be apart of those, definitely be a
part of those, but I think thatthey'll, I think they'll, you
know, be different in how it,how it evolves, and so it's just
being intentional, I think, onhow you use it and how you, how
your clients use it.

Yeah, it's one thing to use an LLM as a thought
partner and you and I areprobably wired from the get-go
to do that because it's becauseyou know we like tools.
That's just how we're wired, um.
It's another thing to get youknow people who aren't wired
that way to use it as an ongoingthought partner.

(40:56):
But I feel certain that youhave, you know, you've got a
technical and automationbackground, so I just can't
imagine that you haven'timplemented baby AI frameworks
within the small businesses thatyou've had with limited
resources right.

After I leave, how could they continue the
evolution of their business?
Cause, that's one thing.
You know that I've I've triedto say like, and this, this is
ongoing.
This isn't just like a one anddone.
Otherwise you're going to like,call me back in five to seven
years and say, okay, the systemsare, you know, legacy, now we
need new ones.

(41:38):
And so maybe by just using it,as that thought partner is like,
how do I integrate this?
Or how do I automate?
You know there's so many cooltoys.
I say toys, they're reallytools.
You know I'm I'm working inGoogle.

(42:05):
How do I make an automation formy uh, for my calendar invite?
Right, how do I?
Um, and it will give youstep-by-step pieces.
Uh, it will give you probablytwo suggestions, right, here's
how you can know code it, andhere's how you can code it.
And so, if you're uh, so thatif you don't even know what code
is, you can still implement itjust as easy.

(42:25):
So I think that's where.
I think that's where ChatGPT or,you know, an assistant, would
be helpful, and there's so manynow.
I feel like anything you open upnow there's an assistant for
that, right, so I do thinkthere's benefit in it, um, it's.
So I do think there's benefitin it.
I think that, um, I think it'sjust creating that relationship

(42:49):
with that client to say like um,you know, here's how you could
use it.
And then I'm always thinking,tanya, as we're talking, like
there's almost this if we go wayback in our conversation about
imposter syndrome, like I thinkthat there is a like if I use AI
, I'm cheating, almost thoughtyou know, like and I think

(43:12):
that's the narrative we have tokind of get over is like you're
not cheating everyone, you knowit's like everyone else is doing
it.
Like you might as well be onthe curve or trying to get you
know it's like everyone else isdoing it.
Like you might as well be onthe curve or trying to get you
know beyond the curve, um, andso there might be some way I can
incorporate that with myclients too.

I think that's important.
Um, humans are arrogant.
Um, we want to think that wecan and should do everything,
and it is a mindset shift torecognize the value of power

(43:53):
tools.
I grew up on a farm.
I can make a hole in a piece ofwood with an awl, an AWL with
an awl, and it will take mehours.
Or I can get my power drill outand I can make a precision hole
inside of five seconds.
So why would I grind and toilwith an awl to make the same

(44:19):
hole that I can do in fiveseconds with a power tool?
Nobody thinks that's cheating,they think that's being smart.
I grew up with a set of WorldBook Encyclopedias Read.
There must have been 20, 25volumes because they were by
alphabet and I was a nerd.
I read through those and thatwas my research.

(44:39):
It didn't matter that they were10 or 15 years old.
It was what I had at home toresearch with through those and
that was my research.
It didn't matter that they were10 or 15 years old, it was what
I had at home to research with.
I don't think anybody todaylooks at using the internet to
find out things they don't know,to do research.
So 100% identify with whatyou're saying about it.

(45:00):
It feels like it's not my workif I'm enlisting the help of an
AI tool.
But we got to get past thatBecause to me it's just like
from all to power drill and fromworld book encyclopedias to you
know, for years it's just beensearch and regular, more regular
search, more regular search.

(45:25):
You and I know there are AIcomponents embedded in the
search process, but still ithasn't been consumer grade LLMs
in use until just recently.
But still this is just, I think, our next evolution of how do
we work.
As a sidebar, I taught a courseat a university in San Francisco
to the graduate school facultyand it was all about them
changing their methodology forassessing student learning.

(45:47):
Now, I'm not a student learningexpert, that's not my
background, it's not what I dobut it was more about opening
dialogue with the faculty overthe course of a day about how we
are shifting as a population,and you can imagine how faculty
looks at students using AI tools, as it's not their work, but it

(46:10):
is.
It's just like using acalculator.
It's just like using, you know,the internet instead of the
world with encyclopedias, andthe faculty senate wanted me to
teach this course with an angleon.
We have to change ourcurriculums and the way we
measure students, becausestudent output, the value and

(46:31):
contribution of student learning, will be using AI tools, and so
we have to shift the paradigmfrom rote learning to
experiential learning, which AIvery much supports.
So fascinating discussions, butthis is all a mindset shift,
because I feel the same way.

(46:51):
I sometimes engage a couple ofdifferent LLMs on my LinkedIn
pieces.
I could take four hours towrite something brilliant, or I
can work with an ALM and knockit out in 20 minutes, and it's
more important that I get andeverything is mine.
You know I could go on and onabout how you get from an LLM

(47:15):
what you put into it.
You ask it what color the skyis, it will tell you blue.
But if you embellish, you knowthe conversation will tell you
blue.
But if you embellish, you knowthe conversation.
The creativity you deploy iswhat helps you get to an 80%
response with an AI.
But it very much is, I think, ashift for us to not think of it
as it's not my work and itfeels inauthentic.

(47:37):
But it's not, it's wholly you.
What were you about to say?

Yeah, I was just thinking it's just like.
We still have to be criticalthinkers, right, we still have
to take the content.
I mean that's anywhere, right.
So if I read your LinkedIn post, I still am thinking critically
about, like, what you'reposting.
But I'm not thinking I wonderif she created this or not.
Not thinking I wonder if shecreated this or not.

(48:06):
You know it's not like, and so Ithink that that same.
That's with any you know socialmedia or any text.
I mean, even when we were doingresearch projects, you know we
always had to have a.
You know it couldn't just befrom any dot com, it had to be
from, you know, a specificgovernment or universities or
whatever.
So I still think we have someboundaries around it.

(48:29):
Right, we still are criticalthinkers of what you know, these
machine learners like spit out,and so I think that's still
where it's gonna be right, like,as we still have to balance
that and have boundaries aroundit of like, and I'm not going to
put anything out there, right,like I'm not going to just like
ask chat GPT to make me a postand post it and it has nothing

(48:53):
to do with me, right, like, Istill it's still representing of
me right.
Like yeah, so yeah, I just thinkif we continue to be critical
thinkers, yeah, so yeah, I justthink if we continue to be
critical thinkers, you know, aican really, can really be a
benefit, and I do, on occasion,will look at pictures with my
kids and be like do you thinkthis is real or do you think

(49:14):
this is?

not real.

You know, and just trying to show them and I've
done my own, you know,photocopying or photoshopping
myself, you know in differentplaces, and so I show them like,
hey, this is, this is mom andthis is mom, even though it's
the same mom and there'sdifferent backgrounds Right Like
, just so that they're thinkinglike, not everything I see is

(49:37):
real.
Right Like, it can bephotoshopped and AI generated,
and so I think there is somelearning around it too, about
how to be critical thinkers.
Agreed, agreed.
So I mean, time will tell right.

If what we're saying today is last one year,
five years, I heard someoneinterview really early on in
this generative AI journey andhe spoke about how most humans
will think they are smarter thanthe technology and look no
further than when a mappingapplication tells us how to get

(50:18):
somewhere that we've alreadybeen, we're like no, no, no,
that's not the fastest route.
Oh, no, no, I never take 3rd.

Street.

I always go down Sacramento Avenue and how often
when we second-guess technology,we're absolutely wrong.
And I had this experience aweek ago.
I was going to see a friend forlunch and it had me taking this
weird route and I was likemaybe there's a wreck on the

(50:45):
interstate.
And I looked ahead and the linewasn't red.
I was like this is just beingflaky.
This is no, no, no, this isbecause it had me going this way
out of the way.
You know, smaller streets loopinstead of just heading down the
highway.
Sure enough, there was treetrimming and I and I I was 30
minutes late to lunch and I waslike, and it was just another

(51:08):
one of those where I was like Ithought I was smarter than the
technology and and and I justdismissed the technology as,
yeah, they don't know, and had Ijust taken side street, I would
have been to lunch on timeinstead.
Right, that I was quite lateand I was thankful it was a
friend, but still, I think we dotry to second guess things,

(51:32):
that we need to let do the workfor us, right?
So anyway, all interesting, Iwant to move back to some
personal reflection.
You are a private business owner, you're a mom, you're a runner,

(51:53):
you travel, so how do youbalance all those things?
Because they're all importantto you?
None are a sidebar.
So you know your company namehas True North in it and I love
that and you seem to really haveline of sight on your True
North.
So what's your wisdom for ouraudience about balancing all

(52:19):
those things that are importantto you, about?

balancing all those things that are important to
you.
Gosh, I wish I had the magicsauce.
Yeah, true North is really, youknow, we spend a lot of time on

(52:45):
the water and it just reallyresonated with me and I think,
when I think about my true Northis um, you know, is all those
things, but I'm I'm really picky, you know.
I do not say yes to everything.
I say no a lot If it doesn'talign with, uh, what I'm working
towards or who I am.
You know my personal values, orum, and it changes.
So you know what I say no to.
You know personal values or um,and it changes.
So you know what I say no to.
You know, this season might bedifferent than next season, and

(53:10):
so the advice I give is you knowit's is always like looking
inside yourself, right, likereflecting on yourself.
I, my sister, who has alwaystold me to journal a lot and
I've always ignored her, yeah,and I have the same.

I have so many journals I've bought to.
Like you know, I love paper andpens, but then I just don't
stick with.
So so keep going, because Ireally want to hear about this
journal.
Yeah, because I've ignored itas well.

So I wouldn't say I've been journaling, but I have
been reflecting, which I thinkis very much the, you know, the
basis of journaling and and soI've been really just reflective
on my interactions and thethings that I've done.
And I'll kind of go off on alittle tangent.

(54:02):
Here is I, you know, I gorunning in the mornings with my
neighbor, mom, friends, and wehave this kind of saying of
tacos or pickles, you know, likethey.
I love tacos, I love, you know,thinking about what kind of
tacos I'm going to make fordinner.
Or even, after the fact, Ithink, gosh, those were such

(54:24):
good tacos we made, you know.
And so that's the feeling thatI want.
And so whenever we're makingdecisions or whenever I'm, like,
at a crossroads, I think, ok,is this going towards the tacos
or is it going towards the friedpickles that I hate and make me
cringe, and I, you know, can'teven think about it.

(54:45):
But because I, you know, it'skind of just this little silly
thing.
But so when I'm reflecting onthings though it's that feels
tangible, right, like I tangiblycan eat some tacos does that
make me feel the same way?
And if it doesn doesn't, then Isay no to it or I try to limit
it, or, um, because I do haveyou know the priorities and

(55:10):
there's only so much time in theday, uh, and I'm just really
focused on making sure that thethings that I want to get done I
do that the things that I wantto get done, I do.

Wow, I mean I.
I love that you use discernmentand being very intentional to
make choices, to make everychoice, because it's those
little things that we get stuckin, that that take us that, that
that that cost us our energy,that we lose time on.
Um, I think that making thetransition from corporate to to

(55:51):
private business owner is atremendous transition that
requires that kind ofintentional thinking, because
things will dramatically changeand there's so many gaps when
you leave behind a business thatis set up to serve you doing
your best work.
So, when you think about howyou have gone about being

(56:18):
intentional, reflecting, whatadvice would you give along
those lines to people who arebecause there's many of them out
there that listen to this whatadvice would you give them about
how to contemplate and makedecisions about their corporate
transition or exit?
To be frank, that's coming fora lot of us.

(56:39):
I don't know.

It might sound cliche, but I do think it is
that reflection of who you are.
You know a mood board or aPinterest board Like those are.
You know even just a simplescrap of paper.
You know what are your tacos.
You know what.

(57:11):
How are you going to get there?

Um you know, and I think it's just starting, I
think that's the hardest part,is just like, do one.

Yeah, yep, just get started.
Try one small thing, one smallexperiment.
Did it lead you to tacos?
Tacos, you know.
If it didn't, then trysomething else.
You know, if I think we'relucky with the technology that
we have today and that you cando a lot of things that don't

(57:35):
take a big investment of time orenergy, that you could more
energy, that you could, you know, but you could do a lot of
things.
But if you just kind of reflectin yourself and say what is
your true north and stick withit, and I think the other things
start to fall in place.
As soon as you're kind of going, going north, the other pieces

(57:59):
kind of fall in place.
Going north, the other pieceskind of fall in place, and the
things that weren't causing youjoy, you know, you soon kind of
get rid of those.
At least that's what I hope foreveryone that's listening is.
I feel like the more I've beentrue to myself, the more true
things come.

Yes, agreed, and and it feels cliche because it's
been said before, but thatdoesn't make it wrong it is
being ready to apply the wisdomthat everyone around us shares.

(58:40):
I think you've probably hadthis experience, but some of my
biggest aha moments wereembarrassing because it's like
the universe has been telling methis for years and I've just
not been ready to apply whatI've heard.
And so there's nothing wrongwith with comments that feel

(59:01):
cliche because they're not.
They are gathered wisdom fromothers who have succeeded, and
then from your own success, andI think that they they
eventually reach people to tohelp them have that same aha
moment of I've been hearing thisfor two years, and, and, and,
and I too, can benefit from thisand do this.

(59:22):
So thank you.

So it's not just like done, right Like it's like
in six months, do it again.

Do it again, you know, Get used to the constant
it's iterative, yeah, constantchange and even things.

Try again.
You know, something worked,didn't work two years ago, when
you said I'm going to try it.
I'm going to leave my corporatejob but you know things have
changed in two years.
With people that we work with,that it's okay to resubmit an
idea forward in your mind?

Yeah, if it feels like now might be the time.

Lisa Talbot (01:00:14):
So and it aligns to your true north.

Tonya J. Long (01:00:18):
Which leads me to what's your vision for true
North.
Where, where do you think youwant to take it?

Yeah, um, you know I probably should have this
answer like down pat, because Ido ask my clients this, you know
.
But I think that, uh, I want tocontinue to bring joy to myself
, you know, to have that alwayslearning mentality and then

(01:00:51):
bringing you know, allowing forothers just to be able to do
what they want.
And, you know, it's kind oflike a win-win right, like I get

(01:01:14):
to do what I want and they getto do what they want, and so I
hope that continues for manyyears to come and and if not,
that's okay.
Right, that's what we've beentalking about is it's okay to
pivot and change and, um, trysomething new, and um, so I'm,

(01:01:38):
I'm really open as long as I'mgoing to be happy, and and I
found a way to, you know, work,but that aligns with my values
and my, you know, travelcommitments.
Yeah, and, and so I hope thatcontinues as well.

I love the tacos and pickles.
I will.

I will borrow that.

It's a great way.
Where can listeners?

find out more about you or get in touch with True
North if they'd like to workwith you.
Yeah, truenorthpmsolutionscomis my website.
I'm also on LinkedIn, bothmyself and True North PM
Solutions, and my email is alsoon all those social media.
So please reach out and we cantalk about tacos or you know

(01:02:40):
other places that bring joy.

to get you back to your true north, I love it
and I so appreciate the timetoday and the.
There's been a lot of wisdom,but I think there's also been a
lot of assurance assurance forpeople that this isn't
necessarily magic and it's notum, you don't have to make it

(01:03:04):
bigger than it is, just makesmall steps and make progress
toward what you want.
And that may it feels clichewhen I say it, but, my goodness,
we all struggle with it.
So I think it's relevant totalk about it and show people
examples like yours, where ithas really turned out
beautifully.
So, everyone, this is RESET,where purpose meets possibility.

(01:03:28):
And this has been a wonderfulconversation with Lisa Talbot, a
project management expert whotraded in her corporate playbook
for a mission to help smallbusinesses breathe.
Thanks everyone, have awonderful day.
Thanks for joining us on RESET.
Remember, transformation is ajourney, not a destination.

(01:03:52):
So until next time, keepexploring what's possible.
I'm Tonya Long and this is home.
This is RESET.

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8 | Tacos or Pickles? ... Finding Your True North

Episode Transcript

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Tonya J. Long

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