August 19, 2025 • 44 mins
When you've spent four decades as a punk rock frontman, you've seen it all – the rise and fall of trends, the shifting landscape of music consumption, and the evolution of what it means to be rebellious. In this fascinating conversation, Blag Dahlia of The Dwarves takes us behind the persona that's been shocking audiences since the early 1980s.
Starting as college students playing Chicago punk clubs, The Dwarves built their reputation through chaos, controversy, and unapologetic extremity. "We got thrown out of a lot of clubs, we got in a lot of fights," Blag recalls with a hint of nostalgia. "After a while it kind of became a joke and people would say, you know, we're the Dwarves, we're rock legends." This self-proclaimed legendary status wasn't about commercial success but about cultivating an authentic underground presence that has outlasted many of their more commercially successful peers.
What makes Blag truly fascinating is his creative range beyond The Dwarves. Under the persona Ralph Champagne, he creates country and lounge music with "more room to kind of sing and more room to have an arrangement." He's also an author, writing fiction that extends his artistic expression beyond music. These contradictions reveal a multidimensional artist who defies easy categorization – someone who loves musical theater and Steely Dan as much as hardcore punk.
Through changing audiences and music industry upheavals, Blag has maintained relevance by understanding his niche: "My stuff is more like I'm making a cool underground album for the couple thousand people that are going to understand it... For those 5,000 people, it means everything. For the other 8 billion people it means nothing." This clarity about his artistic purpose has allowed him to navigate decades in music without losing his creative compass.
Ready to discover the surprising dimensions of a punk rock legend? Listen now and catch The Dwarves on tour this fall – proving that true rebellion isn't about fleeting youth but about sustaining authentic creative expression against all odds.
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- Check out my bestselling book, "AI and the New Oz: Leadership’s Journey to the Future of Work" available on Amazon [https://a.co/d/aTBJmEr]. Go to the "AI and the New Oz" website at https://www.ai-and-the-new-oz.com/ to learn more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to NorCal Narratives,
where today we're going to talkwith someone who has echoed
loudly across decades of punkstages and underground clubs and
I am.
I am personally just reallyexcited to be in this
conversation, because our guest,blog Dahlia, is the
(00:20):
unapologetic front man of a bandcalled the Dwarves, and you can
see, if you're looking at Blog,that he's not a young kid
anymore and yet he is stillmaking a living on the road.
Took us about a month to getthis lined up and because he's
been on the road and I justthink that's amazing I don't
have the strength to be on theroad anymore.
So we're so happy and if you'venot heard of Blog, if you've
(00:43):
not heard of the Dwarves, thenthis is going to be your
introduction and I think that weare going to have fun.
So, blog, welcome to NorCalNarratives.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hey, it's my pleasure to be here.
You can call me Blag.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Blag.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's kind of the more Illinois way of saying it.
Yeah, is it I?
Okay, so blag.
Well, let's start there, justfor a little grounding.
It's, it's a silly name I'm.
Yeah, I've had it for manyyears and yeah, it's you know.
I think it started outsomewhere in the midst of time
we were.
We were staying at a, at a kindof a crash pad, and it said,
yeah, black jesus was spraypainted on the wall and I said,
ok, I'll, you know, I'll beBlack Jesus, that'll be my, my,
(01:29):
my punk rock name, you know.
But nobody called me BlackJesus.
So eventually, black Jesus.
So eventually I just changed itto Blag.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It converted to Blag because and your name is Paul,
yeah.
Blag is far more interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
That's right, yeah, so I've been stuck with it for a
long time.
But, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And it's a presence, but what we're going to see as
we talk is it's just one of afew different personas you have.
You really are a fascinatinglydiverse human.
So I can't wait to talk aboutit.
So how do you, how do youdescribe the dwarves?
Are those guys likeunderachievers on the height
column or what?
(02:11):
What's going on with that?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
so yeah, the dwarves you know it was kind of a
tribute to the 60s bands that welove.
They had little names, like youknow, the troggs and the seeds
and this kind of stuff.
Yep, we were the dwarves, youknow and you know, started off
in Illinois going to punk showsin Chicago in the early 1980s,
(02:36):
and then we eventually made ourown band.
We did a lot of kind of 60sgarage covers and rock and
roll-illy kind of stuff when wewere starting out, and then we
started writing our own stuffand pretty soon the legendary
dwarves came into being.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Oh funny, you call them legendary because they
actually kind of are.
I mean not being, as wediscussed just before, we
started recording.
I'm not a punk follower and sothis is fascinating for me to
learn about, but you guys are.
You are larger than life.
So what crafted that narrativeLike?
(03:18):
Did you start this 30 years agosaying I'm going to be like a
household name, or did it juststart and take on a life of its
own.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean, you know, basically, it was like the
time period we came up duringwas when, you know, the big
thing was clubs.
You know a?
Band would come up through theclubs.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I hear they're still in existence.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, you know sort of.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
You know it was kind of rock bands, punk bands, metal
bands, pop bands, whatever itwas.
You kind of came up throughthat gauntlet, you know.
So we came up and you know sortof got in a lot of trouble.
You know, we got thrown out ofa lot of clubs, we got in a lot
of fights, we got in a lot ofissues with with, you know,
(04:02):
bands and other clubs, and sothis kind of legendary thing
came around us, because we werealways getting thrown out of
things and getting tossed outand after a while it kind of
became a joke and people wouldsay, you know, and we, we would
say, well, we're the dwarves,we're rock legends, you know,
like rock stars have a lot ofmoney and big record deals and
(04:22):
get played on the radio, butwe're rock legends.
We just get thrown out ofeverything and everybody's
scared of us, you know.
So that was sort of the way,the way that it went.
But we wound up, you know,touring through the through, you
know from the mid-80s and youknow and uh I was in college
then see so, so you were comingaround about the time the
(04:46):
Violent Femmes were having theirheyday.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's the only punk band I have on my Apple Music.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, I love the Violent Femmes.
I come from Illinois, they camefrom Milwaukee.
So I got to see them beforethey were a household name and
they made some great, greatrecords.
I was a big fan, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, Okay, I never saw them perform.
They're still out there as well.
So there must be somethingabout the punk genre, the punk
audiences, that just keepspeople like on that stage,
similar to the Rolling Stones.
I mean, I don't think thoseguys are going to ever stop
performing, so maybe it'sgenerational.
Maybe it's generational thatthese to the Rolling Stones.
I mean I don't think those guysare going to ever stop
performing.
So maybe it's generational.
(05:27):
Maybe it's generational thatthese guys you know this group,
this generation just keeps doingtheir music.
So you built this larger thanlife character and you started
it, I'm guessing, in your 20s.
Yeah, is your life yours or isyour life Blagg's, did I mean?
Because at some point, when youbecome such a persona and
(05:48):
you're known for bar fights, andat some point are you making
your own choices, or or do youfeel like your character made
your?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
choices.
I mean choices, boy do.
Does anybody make their ownchoices?
I mean, oh, let's go,existential, your choices are so
kind of circumscribed in life,you know, like you can't choose
to be taller or choose to besmarter or choose to be better
looking, you know.
So we make the choices we can,you know.
I mean, I just kind ofeverything.
(06:19):
But making a great record orplaying a great show always kind
of felt like folly to me.
It didn't seem very important,you know, and I think there were
other things I could havestressed more had I seen, but I
was very tunnel vision in termsof my vision of the band and
what I wanted to do.
(06:39):
So you turn around one day andit's yeah, you know, it's 40
plus years after you started thething and it's like whoa, this
is crazy, you know, but peoplewill still, they'll still pay to
see us, they still enjoy it andyou know we try and stay
interesting, you know.
I think a lot of bands kind ofstagnate where they started.
(07:00):
You know we always tried to,you know, introduce new things,
whether it was a new, you knowwe were sequencing drums or
making samples real early, whicha lot of other punk bands
weren't doing.
You know, then when a lot ofpunk bands kind of got cleaner
and more popped out, you know,we we tried to kind of evolve in
(07:21):
different ways.
You know we'd make an even morehardcore, nasty record, that we
make an even more pop one withsome kind of evolve in different
ways.
You know we'd make an even morehardcore, nasty record, then
we'd make an even more pop onewith some kind of pop producer,
just trying to see how manydifferent places we could go.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, and I love that you differentiated.
I love that you didn't follow,because violent films they're a
great dance band.
You know they're happy and youknow they're a great dance band.
But your point is so right thatyou were not going to be what
was popular, you were going tobe what was differentiated.
So that was a conscious choice,even when you were younger.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I think so, and you know, pop music was in kind
of a bad place when I was inhigh school.
It was a lot of kind of Britishpop that was trying to be
Motown and failing miserably.
It just didn't hold anything forme and my friends you know,
whereas the punk scene it waskind of that last gasp of being
left alone.
You know the mainstream didn'twant it.
(08:22):
People weren't trying to get inthere and really make them.
They didn't really see wherethe profit could be made.
I think now people see thatthere was money to be made there
and there's merchandise andthis and that, but at the time
it was nobody was really payingtoo much attention to it so you
could kind of sneak in under theradar.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
But you saw the world .
I mean you guys are big.
I mean I feel like I'm having afangirl moment, you know.
But you, in looking at theresearch, you know you guys
toured all through the US, allthrough Europe.
You did these big punkfestivals in the UK.
I didn't find that you everplayed Wembley but but you know
(09:04):
it wouldn't surprise me if yougot real close.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
No Wembley, I think the biggest we did was Donington
when they were doing the OzFest and that stuff.
So yeah, we've gotten to playsome big metal festivals and
punk festivals there in EuropeLeeds and Reading, and you know
Puckle Pop and Hellfest andthese various places.
So yeah, I've gotten to playsome huge spots, you know.
(09:29):
In America.
You know we do the Punk in thePark tour a lot or we do you
know punk rock bowling you know.
So it's been nice to watch thescene kind of coagulate in a big
, big festival and you can goplay that and more people become
hip to you well, you saidearlier, 40 years on the road.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So I'm thinking people may have changed a lot.
I know I look at my friendskids who are in college.
They don't look a actor behaveat all like I think I did when I
was in college.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So you're very young looking now and young acting now
.
For sure, yeah.
But yeah, we were a little moreanxious to be emancipated, I
think.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Generation X.
You know, we were a little more.
We, our parents, weren't quiteas helicopter-y with our no.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I grew up on a farm in Tennessee so they'd turn me
out of the house like cattle.
They'd turn me out of the houseat like 8 am and I'd be on my
bike and visiting neighbors anddoing all kinds of whatnot until
dinner time.
Supper, supper time.
So, it was a different lifethan it is now.
How does that show up in youraudiences?
Because you have to.
(10:44):
You probably don't sit aroundand think about this, but you
have to look back and see thattoday's audiences receive you
differently, Not because yourmusic's that different, but
because people are different.
So what's the big differencesyou see from?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
30, 40 years ago.
You know, there's a few things.
I mean, there's a certainamount of just nostalgia right
which you never, you're notready for.
When you're a kid, it's likethere's no nostalgia, you're the
new thing, whatever's happening.
So to have all these yearslater, people are like, oh, I'm
nostalgic for this, I rememberthis.
(11:20):
You know that that's one sideof it, and even like parents
teaching their kids about it andstuff like that, which is
interesting.
But the dwarves, you know, sinceit's such a childish kind of
band in a lot of ways andthere's a lot of, you know, just
sexual imagery, violent imageryand nihilistic imagery that
(11:41):
it's.
I think it's for young peopleand they sort of go through a
phase with it and then it's over, you know.
So, whereas my brain hasremained in it for all this time
, you know, for a lot of peopleit's like it's the kind of thing
that really turns you on whenyou're 15, 16, you get in your
early twenties and you're kindof like I don't know if I really
like this anymore.
(12:02):
I'm thinking about other thingsnow.
I want to get a real date, or Iwant to go to a dance club, or
I want to do something, you know.
So it's kind of it interfaceswith people's mentality.
It's like I don't give a f***phase of their life, you know.
And then some people stay inthat and most people kind of
graduate, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I feel like people are moredelicate and sensitive now than
they were in the 80s and 90s.
Not that we were like crazymean, but we were.
I think we were tougher, sohave had that impact we were
mean in person you know they'velearned a different way of being
mean.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They're like cool to each other through the internet.
So, yes, it's a little moreantiseptic, you don't actually
have to get your hands dirty.
You know, I think it's harderfor people to be cruel to each
other in person, you know, atthe club, at the.
You know, when you're shakingsomebody's hand it's hard to be
mean.
But then on the internet it'svery easy to sort of you're
(13:04):
right, paint an evil picture ofother people when you don't have
to touch them and yeah, and bepart of it.
So I think that that isdefinitely something that's
that's happened.
You know audiences have changedin that way.
I think, you know, the sex anddrugs elements were much
stronger when I was a kid, butthat's also because I was a kid
and there's also because I was akid and there was a lot more
(13:26):
sex and drugs around.
You get older and it dries upin different ways.
So there's these different.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We find our brains, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, you know I mean .
So you know, I've watched theaudience profile kind of change
and again.
I always tried to keep itinteresting as an artist and
make music that turned me on insome way, you know.
But you're not always turningon the audience with that, you
(13:56):
know.
So you got to kind of watch.
You know what people like.
What do they not like what?
What?
What gets people rolling?
What's modern, not like whatgets people rolling?
What's modern, what's notmodern, you know.
And sometimes you can kind oflean into the older stuff and
it's like cool, this is retro,this is what we used to do, and
sometimes you just look old andtired doing that.
(14:16):
So you got to kind of keep youreyes open.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, because you have to be credible, right, you
can't.
And if you're a high energy,high volume, you know, amped up
persona, I think part of thecredibility is being able to
kind of carry that persona.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
But you guys still have, after 40 years on the road
, which is amazing so oh, yeah,yeah, I mean, you know, and the
road is navigable in differentways.
You know, I see a lot of bandsour age that kind of navigate it
by, you know, turning veryinward.
(14:52):
They never get off the tour bus.
They never shake anybody's hand.
My girlfriend, we're going todo our thing, Okay, then we're
going to go out on stage justfor that hour and I'm going to
smile and then, when it's over,I'm going to go and retreat
again.
That was never really why I gotinto it.
I still like to laugh and enjoymyself and shake some hands and
(15:16):
see some people and get thatfeedback from people that they
had a good time.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Talking about what stokes you and you are.
You are such an artist so youknow clearly this.
This, this punk band 40 yearthing, has taken up some time.
But you've also journeyed intoother mediums.
You you had a country musicalbum.
You had a country music album.
You had a separately abluegrass album.
I'm from Tennessee, so I knowmy bluegrass and you're an
(15:51):
author.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And yeah, I write books.
Again, they're pretty dirtybooks, they're not really for
the whole family, but but aren'tthey prose yeah?
Yeah, I mean that's amazing.
Yeah, I mean that's amazing.
Yeah, I mean, I love to write.
I think there's different waysthat you can communicate with
people.
You know, doing it in a punkband is sort of one way.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And it's a very the way we did.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It was a very kind of id-driven attack.
Yes, yes, you know it's notsort of music with a lot of air
and pleasantry around it.
But you know, I've tried toproduce other records that were
like that.
So I have this persona, ralphChampagne, and with Ralph
Champagne I do more country andlounge kind of things.
(16:36):
There's more room to kind ofsing and more room to kind of,
you know, have an arrangementand there's just more air in
that.
You know, in the Dwarf stuffit's very dense, heavy guitar,
heavy drum, fast tempos.
It's very common and it's sortof pounding that beats at your
head.
You know.
So, the older you get, the moredifficult it is to like listen
(16:57):
to that and enjoy it.
You know.
So I try and do other kinds ofmusic.
I do a lot of stuff with femalevocalists and stuff, because
that's sort of the polaropposite of dwarf stuff.
And then, yeah, you know, tryand write fiction and keep it
funny, and you know, to me it'sjust all different ways of
(17:20):
communicating, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I agree, I agree, communicating, you know, I agree
, I agree.
So, because you do this workwith, as you've mentioned, with
female voices and you writeprose, for God's sake, even if
it's quote dirty, it's prose Doyou think that maybe there's a
quieter, more introspective sideof Paul?
Or or champagne, that that thatis your like reprieve from what
(17:49):
you typically do on the stage,which is pounding, yeah, yeah, I
mean, and it also depends.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I mean, I think there's a lot of kind of
Catholic guilt with this stuff.
So people will play punk for awhile and then it's like I don't
want to do this anymore, I wantto be a different person.
You know, or I'm, I'm going towrite a book now.
I'm going to be a wholedifferent person.
But you know, after a while itall just kind of became media to
me.
So it's like the people, theperson who you are, you can't
(18:18):
get rid of.
That's just, that's just you.
You're stuck with that.
But then you've got these othermodes of expression and you can
express yourself in a way thata 14-year-old would applaud and
scream at or a way that a50-year-old would applaud and
enjoy.
And I think you have to, inyour mind, as an artist, as
(18:41):
you're making these things, youhave to keep your path clear and
understand what it is you'retrying to do.
You know I'm not trying to getthe same things out of a ralph
champagne record as I'm tryingto get out of a dwarves record.
So if something will occur to meto do.
That would be really funny inthe dwarves context I have to
remember.
Oh, I can't really do that withthis because people won't take
(19:01):
the joke the same way.
You know you can make veryoffensive jokes in the dwarves
that have a certain scenarioEveryone's dying, everyone's
being murdered, everyone's ondrugs, you know.
And then when you're writing abook, you know you more have to
take on different characters'personas and to tell the story
(19:22):
right.
You can't just have thisone-dimensional pounding over
the head with it.
So right, that's what's beeninteresting about kind of having
different scenarios?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
different personas, yeah, of how you show up and
still communicate with people.
So it is clear you've mentionedit a couple of times, but the
research was clear that some ofwhat the dwarves do is
controversial, sensational,angry.
Even so, in today's climate wementioned, things have, like you
(19:56):
know, settled down.
They're a little more careful.
But do you see that work thatyou guys do from from the dwarf
side?
Do you think that's acommentary on extremism and bad
behavior, or is it?
Or is it just who you were atthe time and you carried forward
?
that that kind of persona,people expected.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's all of the above .
I mean to me, it was always afunny thing and you either got
the joke or you didn't.
At the same time yes, a lot oftimes when people thought we
were just joking, it was like,nope, we weren't joking about
that you know you can't with us,we're gonna get you, you know
so it was like you know, I thinkit.
(20:40):
you know, my concern was alwaysmaking great art that I enjoyed
and trying to just pay my billsso that I could make that art
Fair.
And so, you know, we got leftout of a lot of things.
We got left out of a lot ofrecord deals, a lot of radio
play, a lot of media coverage, alot of the.
(21:02):
You know, the Dwarves sort ofalready paid our dues by being
so extreme that we was just like, yeah, okay, you guys, you know
, ha ha, we get the joke, butyou're not invited, you're not
included.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
We're not putting you on this plane yet.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know, you just got that left off.
And so what's funny is that,you know, know we, I became very
hardened to all of that.
Okay, and so you know, as theyears went on, funny things
happen, right, because you watchsomebody.
You got a great record deal inthe 90s trying to play it safe
or be somewhere between PearlJam and Candlebox and whatever
(21:39):
they were trying to be, and nowyou know that that's the biggest
moment of their life, you knowand they'll never get that back
and they're just like you knowhow come nobody cares about what
I was doing in 1995.
It's like, whereas we had tostay strong, you know, because
nobody did care.
So it was like, okay, you know,we're gonna make records we
(22:01):
think are, we don't care howmany copies we sell, we don't
care whether the radio thinksthis is acceptable, we're just,
we're going to be happy withdoing what we do.
And the paradox is peoplerecognize the, the, you know
that integrity, yeah, and sowhen the whole kind of
cancellation movement happened,we were kind of immune to it.
(22:25):
It's like, what are you goingto do?
Like I had nudity on the coverof 10 records, you know, I said
in every other song title like,what exactly are you going to do
that's going to expose me asthis horrible person who was,
you know, insincere, you know,whereas you look at these other
(22:45):
bands who've kind of fallen, youknow anti flag or whatever,
yeah.
Invariably, it was these bandsthat had this moral thing.
They were always moralizing atyou and pointing at you and
telling you why you were asexist or a racist or a bad
person, or a racist or a badperson.
And lo and behold, it turnedout.
Oh, you know, those were thepeople who weren't very morally
(23:10):
upright, you know what I mean.
And all of a sudden they haveto run away screaming They've
been canceled, right, they werecoming on so moralistic, but oh,
it turned out they were shittypeople.
I think with the dwarves it wasjust the opposite.
You know, we came on like wehave no morals, we don't get it.
Yeah, we're not trying to beyour friend, we're not trying to
(23:33):
be your moral exemplar.
And then, oh, it turned out wewere actually pretty cool and we
were a legitimate undergroundrock band and we weren't some
corporate thing.
We actually did treat peoplepretty well and everything was
actually pretty good.
So you know, it's like that,that sort of sweet revenge.
You know a lot of people who Ihad to watch vault past me in
the eighties and the ninetiesare still struggling because
(23:56):
they never quite figured out youknow how to make a t-shirt
without their manager doing itfor them, and and how to get a
record out of people withouttheir PR team doing it for them.
But all those things go away.
You know you lose the PR team,you lose the management, you
lose that stuff.
And so you know we're proud tostill be here.
(24:19):
I still go out and play musicwith my friends.
I still have a good timeplaying music with my friends,
and people listen to it and Imake a living at it, so I
consider myself very fortunate.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
A very fortunate human.
Yeah, I talk with a lot ofpeople that are our age about
relevance, because I think whenyou hit your 50s, most of us not
you, maybe, but most of us arestarting life's changing.
How people look at us changes.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So how do you girls, just look right through me now
you know instead of clawingtheir way to the stage right.
So you know, you go to the gymand there's a bunch of college
chicks are just looking.
They're just looking rightthrough you and you go to the
supermarket.
You don't even register anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So how do you look at relevance, other than those chicks that
don't know any better?
They will grow up one day.
But what do you think relevanceis about?
Is it about staying consistentor is it about, like, finding
new ways to shift or grow?
Grow more than shift?
You are so authentic and trueto yourself.
(25:26):
I don't think you shift, but Ithink you do.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I you know, I think there's two ways of
looking at it.
You know, one is the sort ofuniversal way.
You know, does any of thismatter in the context of?
You know, love and family andyou know oral virtue?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
you know and I think the answer is no, it doesn't
matter.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
And then there's the level on which it's like well,
what about just making peoplewant to wake up and face the day
?
What about making a song thatjust makes you happy that day?
What about painting a picturethat just made somebody smile?
You know, and I think in thatway it's the most important
things that people do, you know.
So I think in that way it'sjust eternally relevant, whereas
(26:13):
commercially it has norelevance or importance at all
yeah, I love it.
You have to kind of beschizophrenic in that way and
understand both sides of it.
You know I.
You know the time when I wasgoing to sell out madison square
garden or have the number onesong on on terrestrial radio.
(26:37):
You know those, those thingsare over and so the people who
were struggling with that whenthey were 20 and really that was
important to them, I think theyhave a problem with their
relevance.
You know, my, my stuff is morelike I'm making a cool
underground album for the couplethousand people that are going
to understand it.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, yeah, you know, identify with it.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That's what I'm doing , you know.
So, you, if that's what you'redoing, then you can be
infinitely relevant within thatcontext.
You know what I mean.
For those 5,000 people, itmeans everything.
For the other 8 billion peopleit means nothing.
You know, and that's just sortof where it's at.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah.
So who are you offstage?
What would surprise peopleabout music or moments that your
closest fans would go?
Oh God, no, barry Manilow,really.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, my guilty pleasures in music.
Well, for a start, I was raisedin musical theater.
I never got a part or anything.
But you know, for me, yeah, Iwas raised in musical theater.
I never got a part or anything,but you know for me.
Yeah, I mean my favorite stuffis.
Guys and Dolls and the Musicman.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh, that is surprising.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I, like, you know, the cornier the musical the
better.
And when it comes to you know,old music, I like old pop, music
from the 20s and 30s of jazzand blues and country, like just
old records that people wouldnot associate with me at all
because they're easy on my brain, they don't pound at me like
(28:16):
the music that I make, you know,yep, so that would probably
sort of surprise people.
And then just, you know theboring things that I find
interesting.
You know, I find it interestingLike my band has no political
(28:36):
side to it whereas a lot ofother bands do.
But I actually find politicsinteresting and read about it
and think about it.
I just don't, I just don'tassociate that with what I do.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And and so again, you know there's a lot of kind of
schizophrenia involved with it.
There's a lot ofcompartmentalizing and putting
stuff here.
You know the kind of stuff Iwant.
You know I was never veryinterested in family stuff.
I was never very interested infamily stuff, you know.
But now I'm old and puttingtogether my family and so it's
(29:09):
different.
You know, now it's now thatstuff is really interesting to
me, whereas for most of theyears that other people were
doing that stuff was like, yeah,I have no interest in that, I'm
not going to do any of that,you know.
So it's.
You know, I think you can't.
I think also with a lot ofpeople in music or the arts,
they take their image seriously,whereas to me the image is
(29:32):
humorous and that's the fun, andthen the actual person is there
.
If you want to get to know thatperson, you can, you know, but
it's not as fun, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
You know, I admitted that I wasn't a big music person
at the beginning of this, andso I don't know, do you guys
like change your identities onstage?
I was a.
I was a big Kiss fan when I wasa kid Right, and I mean, you
remember those guys were in fullmakeup and it was like like
this national phenomenon aboutoh who are they really, you know
?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, real names or no, they had kind of stage names
, I guess I think they hadstagey names because, one was
somebody's star, you know, yeah,so anyway, Right, yeah, that's
right.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Gene Simmons has done very well as a business person.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, Gene Simmons was the name of an old movie
star from the 40s, a femaleactually I didn't know that.
And he, yeah, he appropriated.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
So they ripped off her name.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I think he has a very sort of.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Jewish.
He may be a Paul as well.
There's a Paul in the Kisslineup.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, Paul Stanley Again.
I think his name is, like PaulStanley, something Jewish yeah
yeah, yeah Him and.
Gene were kind of these.
You know, they had this vision.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
So do you guys change your identity on stage, or do I
mean, or are you?
Are you because you're verytheatrical in what your album
covers and the words that youuse in your music are meant to
elicit responses?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Just in T-shirts and board shorts.
I saw Kenny Chesney in Vegasabout a month ago because I was
at a conference, not because Iwanted to see, and I was like
that man is in is in like cargopants and a T-shirt and he
rolled out of bed and wore hisball cap.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
To him that feels very legit, Like this is real me
, you know whereas a lot oftimes with artists like that,
right, the people who are doingall the stuff are their
management, so that they canthen sit around and be like, hey
, this is just me, you know it'slike yeah right?
Well, you tell your managementwhat to do to make you appear
(31:53):
larger than life and then it'slike but this is just me, I'm
just a regular guy.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, get me on my tractor.
Yeah, exactly.
So let's do what I like to.
My final segment is usually alightning round, and these are
so much fun because I get tojust rapid fire questions at
people and they get to give me,you know, shorter answers that
aren't maybe as compelling aboutthe world and society, so
(32:20):
they're more pointed maybe.
So for a lightning round, let'sask so what's a band you
secretly love that your fanswould not expect?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Band that I secretly love.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I'm voting on Barry Manilow.
I had Paige Brodby on the showThings like that.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
It would be like Steely Dan right, oh, thank you.
Steely Dan, they've got these,you know, corny or very, you
know, like jazzy session guystuff, which is sort of the
polar opposite of a lot of whatI've done, you know.
But I find it interesting tolisten to them and hear their
kind of clean 70s cocainetechnique, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Cocaine.
So who's a band?
Because because you know peopleare going to listen to this and
go listen to that band becauseit surprises them.
Let's listen to that band yeah,who, you got one that comes to
mind it's what steely dan.
That's not a band steely dan,that wasn't a real answer, was
it?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
yeah, oh, geez okay steely Go.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Steely Dan, I was expecting something less
commercial from you.
No, that's the point.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
That's my guilty pleasure.
I'm fine with the commercials.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Good good, I love it.
Fine.
So punk has been around.
How long has punk been around?
50 years, if you've been doingit 40?
.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It depends where you trace the beginning of it.
I trace the beginning of it tothe mid sixties, where the bands
like Deeds and the 13th floorelevators and these obscure like
sixties garage bands.
To me that's where punk starts,with the Sonics and that kind
of stuff.
Then of course you get to likelate sixts where you get like
the Stooges and then early 70swith bands like the New York
(34:11):
Dolls and stuff like that.
I think modern punk kind ofstarts with the Ramones in the
mid 70s.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I've heard of some of these.
I'm excited.
Yeah, Okay, good.
Well, so you know, clearlypeople who started with the
genre are aging out in some way.
So if punk had a retirementvillage, what would you name it?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Broken Dreams.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Broken Dreams.
Okay, I love it, that works.
So we've talked about albumcovers.
We've talked about art andalbum covers and how your music
is somewhat controversial andyou said you had 10 albums with
nudity on the cover.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, there's probably maybe 20 records total,
and at least half of them havenudity on the cover.
I like looking at attractivefemales.
That was always my thing.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I figured.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Why would you want to look at a picture of me when
you could look at a picture ofan attractive female?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Or that, that famous Nirvana cover with the little
boy swimming in the pool like atoddler.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Well, that that says more about them, that it's a
little boy, you know.
But I won't get into Nirvana'shabits.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I was in grad school when Kurt passed away.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So, yeah, that was the big ending we played with
Nirvana 1991.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Wow, and that would have been by the time I was
headed to grad school, soamazing.
So if you could redo just oneof those album covers, which one
would you redo and why?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh boy, okay, do just one of those album covers.
Which one would you redo andwhy?
Oh boy, I had a chance to redoone called sugar fix.
Um, and we made it better.
You know, we went to a girl'ssweet 16, okay, we took pictures
there and it was kind of a dopethemed sweet 16.
Yep, so we had, like you know,like spoons but with a pixie
(36:13):
stick going into it and stufflike that over a candle.
You know, it was kind ofmocking the everybody was dying
on drugs.
But the guy who shot it, it wassort of a news photographer guy
.
He wasn't like a portraitphotographer he didn't really
know what he was doing yeah sowe had to go back and, you know,
(36:33):
lighten it up and bring outsmiles and do all this stuff,
like you can do theseinteresting things now, you know
.
Yeah, so so we went back andkind of remade that one and that
was interesting, you know, orlike there was one that a guy
had taken with this tiny littlemodel, but he did it with a tiny
little dog, so she didn't looktiny enough, things like that,
(36:54):
you know.
So I'll go, I'll go back andredo them.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I never redo them to make them cleaner yeah, okay,
and that's a statement to melook better, you know yeah yeah,
because you had anothercreative interpretation of it,
so that's good.
So a lot of people are primadonnas.
I've I I work less with bandsand more with speakers, so I've
known people who absolutely haveto have diet mountain dew
(37:18):
backstage, you know they have.
They have some little thingthat's there like must have so
what's your must have backstagea toilet.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
We're so easy.
Can I come?
Support you yeah, okay itdoesn't even have to be clean.
I mean, it is rock and roll, soit's probably going to be
filthy, but just please get atoilet bag there yeah, yeah give
you that one favor no, allgreen m&ms or diet mountain
deuce for you just just aheadthat's all you need.
Well, that's, that's it.
(37:50):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
So what's the worst gig you've ever done?
What's what stands out inmemory is one of the worst gigs
ever wow, worst gigs everbecause of course it has to have
a funny story with it right, I,I play acoustically.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Sometimes I'm a really piss poor acoustic guitar
player, so anytime I have topull the guitar out it makes me
sad.
And I've done some very funnyshows.
I have funny songs, you know,and so you know I've gotten a
lot of laughs doing those shows.
But they just torture me.
I just hate playing guitar.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So do you play any instrument on stage, or is it
just you being the front man?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's just me being the front man.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
And I shouldn't say just because that's a full-time
job.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yes, well, I mean most of what I do is writing
songs and that you know I needan instrument for sometimes,
sometimes, I just do it in myhead.
Yeah, but I hate having toperform on it.
I don't enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Okay, love it.
So 10, 15 years from now,you're curating your Black black
dahlia museum yes what's thefirst item that you pull into
one of those lit glass cases toshow?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
who you are probably my rock guy gloves.
You know I have my.
My gloves I've been wearingsince the 80s okay, so that's
your sometimes I forget them,but usually I have them on.
You know, this sort ofshop-worn retro piece of
clothing.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It's part of your stage presence, so I love it.
Good, that's right.
So, in retrospect, blagg, at 25years old, walks into the room.
What do you?
Sit him down and tell him.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
You know, be a little bit nicer, don't be so mean.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Don't be so impatient .
Things will happen in time.
Those would probably be twothings I would tell him Be a
little bit nicer and don't be soimpatient.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, any quotes that stand out for you or models
that stand out.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
If you can't be good, then be forceful.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Is that actually a quote?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Or is that just your quote?
That's your quote, excellent.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Excellent, excellent.
Or is that just your quote?
That's your quote Excellent,excellent.
So if people want to follow you, to come see you guys, I mean,
we had to wait until you wereoff the road for a couple of
weeks.
But I think you're going backon the road in September, if I'm
not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Oh yeah, lots of time on the road and we're doing a
very long one.
Well, in September we're goingto go to Canada and we're going
to go to the East Coast doingone of those punk in the park
festivals out there, nice, inOctober, november, we're playing
with some old bands GWAR andHelmet.
So we're going to be going allover the country with GWAR and
(41:00):
Helmet and that will Will you beback on the West Coast, like
within an hour's drive of theBay Area?
Yes, absolutely, we'll be inberkeley there and excellent, I
think it's late october, we'rewe're in berkeley, so definitely
come out and see us I plan to,I plan to, I will.
How would I find you online sothat our the dwarvescom has all
(41:23):
our tour dates, ticket links,you know press, know press
clippings, all that good stuff,if you just go to the dwarvescom
.
And of course we're on Facebook, instagram, all those places
where commercialized people sellthemselves.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, excellent .
So the dwarvescom.
I'll put it in the show notes.
Maybe, I'll get a gaggle offriends of my age who might
remember our Violent Femmesfraternity party dancing and
bring you a group of women forthe front row that have a little
more maturity on us take yourtop off never.
(41:59):
Oh, that's wonderful, excellent.
So we look forward, then, toseeing you at the end of October
.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I would love it.
Wonderful, it would bewonderful.
Thank you for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, so it has been great to have you on NorCal
Narratives.
There's a difference in beingloud and being listened to,
that's right, that's right,that's right.
And you have presented so manyopportunities for people to
listen to you and to see you inso many different dimensions, so
(42:34):
it's really wonderful to havemet you.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Well, thanks very much.
Thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Wonderful so NorCal Narratives closing off the day,
from KPCR 92.9 in Los Gatos.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Pirate Cat Radio.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Pirate Cat Radio.
Pirate Cat Radio.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Shout out to Daniel, my station director and shout
out to Pixie, DJ Pixie and hermature content show.
There's a lot of great stuffgoing on at Pirate Cat Tune in
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
We appreciate that, Thank you.
I've been with the stationsince early spring and it has
been a fun experience, yeah it'sgreat down there.
And we just added a station andI have to look at KVBE 91.1 in
Portland, so this will bebroadcast in Portland and then
also in Santa Cruz.
Yeah, and in Santa Cruz we haveKMRT.
(43:32):
That's 101.9 LP out of Santa.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Cruz.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
So you are hitting the Bay Area, santa Cruz and
Portland.
I think people are going to bevery interested.
We might have a heck of a showfor you when you come to
Berkeley Right on.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Thanks.
We might have a heck of a showfor you when you come to
Berkeley Right on.
Well, thanks, we'll see yousoon.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Okay.
So whether or not you love punkor if you even know anything
about it, conversations likethis they remind us that
longevity often requirescontradiction, because this
whole call has been about reallyinteresting contradictions and
dimensions of Blagg, also knownas Paul, maybe by only his mama
(44:12):
at this point.
But Blag and Paul have giveninto the world, and maybe that's
the most rebellious thing ofall is that you have shown
people so many different thingsto think about and the different
ways that you show up.
So it's been a pleasure to meetyou.
And everyone in the audiencefrom NorCal Narratives.
(44:35):
We will see you next time.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Take it easy Bye-bye, awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Thank you, Blagg.
Hello everyone and welcome to NorCal Narratives,
where today we're going to talkwith someone who has echoed
loudly across decades of punkstages and underground clubs and
I am.
I am personally just reallyexcited to be in this
conversation, because our guest,blog Dahlia, is the
(00:20):
unapologetic front man of a bandcalled the Dwarves, and you can
see, if you're looking at Blog,that he's not a young kid
anymore and yet he is stillmaking a living on the road.
Took us about a month to getthis lined up and because he's
been on the road and I justthink that's amazing I don't
have the strength to be on theroad anymore.
So we're so happy and if you'venot heard of Blog, if you've
(00:43):
not heard of the Dwarves, thenthis is going to be your
introduction and I think that weare going to have fun.
So, blog, welcome to NorCalNarratives.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hey, it's my pleasure to be here.
You can call me Blag.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Blag.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It's kind of the more Illinois way of saying it.
Yeah, is it I?
Okay, so blag.
Well, let's start there, justfor a little grounding.
It's, it's a silly name I'm.
Yeah, I've had it for manyyears and yeah, it's you know.
I think it started outsomewhere in the midst of time
we were.
We were staying at a, at a kindof a crash pad, and it said,
yeah, black jesus was spraypainted on the wall and I said,
ok, I'll, you know, I'll beBlack Jesus, that'll be my, my,
(01:29):
my punk rock name, you know.
But nobody called me BlackJesus.
So eventually, black Jesus.
So eventually I just changed itto Blag.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It converted to Blag because and your name is Paul,
yeah.
Blag is far more interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
That's right, yeah, so I've been stuck with it for a
long time.
But, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
And it's a presence, but what we're going to see as
we talk is it's just one of afew different personas you have.
You really are a fascinatinglydiverse human.
So I can't wait to talk aboutit.
So how do you, how do youdescribe the dwarves?
Are those guys likeunderachievers on the height
column or what?
(02:11):
What's going on with that?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
so yeah, the dwarves you know it was kind of a
tribute to the 60s bands that welove.
They had little names, like youknow, the troggs and the seeds
and this kind of stuff.
Yep, we were the dwarves, youknow and you know, started off
in Illinois going to punk showsin Chicago in the early 1980s,
(02:36):
and then we eventually made ourown band.
We did a lot of kind of 60sgarage covers and rock and
roll-illy kind of stuff when wewere starting out, and then we
started writing our own stuffand pretty soon the legendary
dwarves came into being.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Oh funny, you call them legendary because they
actually kind of are.
I mean not being, as wediscussed just before, we
started recording.
I'm not a punk follower and sothis is fascinating for me to
learn about, but you guys are.
You are larger than life.
So what crafted that narrativeLike?
(03:18):
Did you start this 30 years agosaying I'm going to be like a
household name, or did it juststart and take on a life of its
own.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, I mean, you know, basically, it was like the
time period we came up duringwas when, you know, the big
thing was clubs.
You know a?
Band would come up through theclubs.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I hear they're still in existence.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, you know sort of.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
You know it was kind of rock bands, punk bands, metal
bands, pop bands, whatever itwas.
You kind of came up throughthat gauntlet, you know.
So we came up and you know sortof got in a lot of trouble.
You know, we got thrown out ofa lot of clubs, we got in a lot
of fights, we got in a lot ofissues with with, you know,
(04:02):
bands and other clubs, and sothis kind of legendary thing
came around us, because we werealways getting thrown out of
things and getting tossed outand after a while it kind of
became a joke and people wouldsay, you know, and we, we would
say, well, we're the dwarves,we're rock legends, you know,
like rock stars have a lot ofmoney and big record deals and
(04:22):
get played on the radio, butwe're rock legends.
We just get thrown out ofeverything and everybody's
scared of us, you know.
So that was sort of the way,the way that it went.
But we wound up, you know,touring through the through, you
know from the mid-80s and youknow and uh I was in college
then see so, so you were comingaround about the time the
(04:46):
Violent Femmes were having theirheyday.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
That's the only punk band I have on my Apple Music.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, I love the Violent Femmes.
I come from Illinois, they camefrom Milwaukee.
So I got to see them beforethey were a household name and
they made some great, greatrecords.
I was a big fan, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, Okay, I never saw them perform.
They're still out there as well.
So there must be somethingabout the punk genre, the punk
audiences, that just keepspeople like on that stage,
similar to the Rolling Stones.
I mean, I don't think thoseguys are going to ever stop
performing, so maybe it'sgenerational.
Maybe it's generational thatthese to the Rolling Stones.
I mean I don't think those guysare going to ever stop
performing.
So maybe it's generational.
(05:27):
Maybe it's generational thatthese guys you know this group,
this generation just keeps doingtheir music.
So you built this larger thanlife character and you started
it, I'm guessing, in your 20s.
Yeah, is your life yours or isyour life Blagg's, did I mean?
Because at some point, when youbecome such a persona and
(05:48):
you're known for bar fights, andat some point are you making
your own choices, or or do youfeel like your character made
your?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
choices.
I mean choices, boy do.
Does anybody make their ownchoices?
I mean, oh, let's go,existential, your choices are so
kind of circumscribed in life,you know, like you can't choose
to be taller or choose to besmarter or choose to be better
looking, you know.
So we make the choices we can,you know.
I mean, I just kind ofeverything.
(06:19):
But making a great record orplaying a great show always kind
of felt like folly to me.
It didn't seem very important,you know, and I think there were
other things I could havestressed more had I seen, but I
was very tunnel vision in termsof my vision of the band and
what I wanted to do.
(06:39):
So you turn around one day andit's yeah, you know, it's 40
plus years after you started thething and it's like whoa, this
is crazy, you know, but peoplewill still, they'll still pay to
see us, they still enjoy it andyou know we try and stay
interesting, you know.
I think a lot of bands kind ofstagnate where they started.
(07:00):
You know we always tried to,you know, introduce new things,
whether it was a new, you knowwe were sequencing drums or
making samples real early, whicha lot of other punk bands
weren't doing.
You know, then when a lot ofpunk bands kind of got cleaner
and more popped out, you know,we we tried to kind of evolve in
(07:21):
different ways.
You know we'd make an even morehardcore, nasty record, that we
make an even more pop one withsome kind of evolve in different
ways.
You know we'd make an even morehardcore, nasty record, then
we'd make an even more pop onewith some kind of pop producer,
just trying to see how manydifferent places we could go.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, and I love that you differentiated.
I love that you didn't follow,because violent films they're a
great dance band.
You know they're happy and youknow they're a great dance band.
But your point is so right thatyou were not going to be what
was popular, you were going tobe what was differentiated.
So that was a conscious choice,even when you were younger.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, I think so, and you know, pop music was in kind
of a bad place when I was inhigh school.
It was a lot of kind of Britishpop that was trying to be
Motown and failing miserably.
It just didn't hold anything forme and my friends you know,
whereas the punk scene it waskind of that last gasp of being
left alone.
You know the mainstream didn'twant it.
(08:22):
People weren't trying to get inthere and really make them.
They didn't really see wherethe profit could be made.
I think now people see thatthere was money to be made there
and there's merchandise andthis and that, but at the time
it was nobody was really payingtoo much attention to it so you
could kind of sneak in under theradar.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
But you saw the world .
I mean you guys are big.
I mean I feel like I'm having afangirl moment, you know.
But you, in looking at theresearch, you know you guys
toured all through the US, allthrough Europe.
You did these big punkfestivals in the UK.
I didn't find that you everplayed Wembley but but you know
(09:04):
it wouldn't surprise me if yougot real close.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
No Wembley, I think the biggest we did was Donington
when they were doing the OzFest and that stuff.
So yeah, we've gotten to playsome big metal festivals and
punk festivals there in EuropeLeeds and Reading, and you know
Puckle Pop and Hellfest andthese various places.
So yeah, I've gotten to playsome huge spots, you know.
(09:29):
In America.
You know we do the Punk in thePark tour a lot or we do you
know punk rock bowling you know.
So it's been nice to watch thescene kind of coagulate in a big
, big festival and you can goplay that and more people become
hip to you well, you saidearlier, 40 years on the road.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So I'm thinking people may have changed a lot.
I know I look at my friendskids who are in college.
They don't look a actor behaveat all like I think I did when I
was in college.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So you're very young looking now and young acting now
.
For sure, yeah.
But yeah, we were a little moreanxious to be emancipated, I
think.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Generation X.
You know, we were a little more.
We, our parents, weren't quiteas helicopter-y with our no.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I grew up on a farm in Tennessee so they'd turn me
out of the house like cattle.
They'd turn me out of the houseat like 8 am and I'd be on my
bike and visiting neighbors anddoing all kinds of whatnot until
dinner time.
Supper, supper time.
So, it was a different lifethan it is now.
How does that show up in youraudiences?
Because you have to.
(10:44):
You probably don't sit aroundand think about this, but you
have to look back and see thattoday's audiences receive you
differently, Not because yourmusic's that different, but
because people are different.
So what's the big differencesyou see from?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
30, 40 years ago.
You know, there's a few things.
I mean, there's a certainamount of just nostalgia right
which you never, you're notready for.
When you're a kid, it's likethere's no nostalgia, you're the
new thing, whatever's happening.
So to have all these yearslater, people are like, oh, I'm
nostalgic for this, I rememberthis.
(11:20):
You know that that's one sideof it, and even like parents
teaching their kids about it andstuff like that, which is
interesting.
But the dwarves, you know, sinceit's such a childish kind of
band in a lot of ways andthere's a lot of, you know, just
sexual imagery, violent imageryand nihilistic imagery that
(11:41):
it's.
I think it's for young peopleand they sort of go through a
phase with it and then it's over, you know.
So, whereas my brain hasremained in it for all this time
, you know, for a lot of peopleit's like it's the kind of thing
that really turns you on whenyou're 15, 16, you get in your
early twenties and you're kindof like I don't know if I really
like this anymore.
(12:02):
I'm thinking about other thingsnow.
I want to get a real date, or Iwant to go to a dance club, or
I want to do something, you know.
So it's kind of it interfaceswith people's mentality.
It's like I don't give a f***phase of their life, you know.
And then some people stay inthat and most people kind of
graduate, you know.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah, yeah.
I feel like people are moredelicate and sensitive now than
they were in the 80s and 90s.
Not that we were like crazymean, but we were.
I think we were tougher, sohave had that impact we were
mean in person you know they'velearned a different way of being
mean.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
They're like cool to each other through the internet.
So, yes, it's a little moreantiseptic, you don't actually
have to get your hands dirty.
You know, I think it's harderfor people to be cruel to each
other in person, you know, atthe club, at the.
You know, when you're shakingsomebody's hand it's hard to be
mean.
But then on the internet it'svery easy to sort of you're
(13:04):
right, paint an evil picture ofother people when you don't have
to touch them and yeah, and bepart of it.
So I think that that isdefinitely something that's
that's happened.
You know audiences have changedin that way.
I think, you know, the sex anddrugs elements were much
stronger when I was a kid, butthat's also because I was a kid
and there's also because I was akid and there was a lot more
(13:26):
sex and drugs around.
You get older and it dries upin different ways.
So there's these different.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We find our brains, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Yeah, you know I mean .
So you know, I've watched theaudience profile kind of change
and again.
I always tried to keep itinteresting as an artist and
make music that turned me on insome way, you know.
But you're not always turningon the audience with that, you
(13:56):
know.
So you got to kind of watch.
You know what people like.
What do they not like what?
What?
What gets people rolling?
What's modern, not like whatgets people rolling?
What's modern, what's notmodern, you know.
And sometimes you can kind oflean into the older stuff and
it's like cool, this is retro,this is what we used to do, and
sometimes you just look old andtired doing that.
(14:16):
So you got to kind of keep youreyes open.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, because you have to be credible, right, you
can't.
And if you're a high energy,high volume, you know, amped up
persona, I think part of thecredibility is being able to
kind of carry that persona.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
But you guys still have, after 40 years on the road
, which is amazing so oh, yeah,yeah, I mean, you know, and the
road is navigable in differentways.
You know, I see a lot of bandsour age that kind of navigate it
by, you know, turning veryinward.
(14:52):
They never get off the tour bus.
They never shake anybody's hand.
My girlfriend, we're going todo our thing, Okay, then we're
going to go out on stage justfor that hour and I'm going to
smile and then, when it's over,I'm going to go and retreat
again.
That was never really why I gotinto it.
I still like to laugh and enjoymyself and shake some hands and
(15:16):
see some people and get thatfeedback from people that they
had a good time.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Talking about what stokes you and you are.
You are such an artist so youknow clearly this.
This, this punk band 40 yearthing, has taken up some time.
But you've also journeyed intoother mediums.
You you had a country musicalbum.
You had a country music album.
You had a separately abluegrass album.
I'm from Tennessee, so I knowmy bluegrass and you're an
(15:51):
author.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
And yeah, I write books.
Again, they're pretty dirtybooks, they're not really for
the whole family, but but aren'tthey prose yeah?
Yeah, I mean that's amazing.
Yeah, I mean that's amazing.
Yeah, I mean, I love to write.
I think there's different waysthat you can communicate with
people.
You know, doing it in a punkband is sort of one way.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And it's a very the way we did.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
It was a very kind of id-driven attack.
Yes, yes, you know it's notsort of music with a lot of air
and pleasantry around it.
But you know, I've tried toproduce other records that were
like that.
So I have this persona, ralphChampagne, and with Ralph
Champagne I do more country andlounge kind of things.
(16:36):
There's more room to kind ofsing and more room to kind of,
you know, have an arrangementand there's just more air in
that.
You know, in the Dwarf stuffit's very dense, heavy guitar,
heavy drum, fast tempos.
It's very common and it's sortof pounding that beats at your
head.
You know.
So, the older you get, the moredifficult it is to like listen
(16:57):
to that and enjoy it.
You know.
So I try and do other kinds ofmusic.
I do a lot of stuff with femalevocalists and stuff, because
that's sort of the polaropposite of dwarf stuff.
And then, yeah, you know, tryand write fiction and keep it
funny, and you know, to me it'sjust all different ways of
(17:20):
communicating, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
I agree, I agree, communicating, you know, I agree
, I agree.
So, because you do this workwith, as you've mentioned, with
female voices and you writeprose, for God's sake, even if
it's quote dirty, it's prose Doyou think that maybe there's a
quieter, more introspective sideof Paul?
Or or champagne, that that thatis your like reprieve from what
(17:49):
you typically do on the stage,which is pounding, yeah, yeah, I
mean, and it also depends.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I mean, I think there's a lot of kind of
Catholic guilt with this stuff.
So people will play punk for awhile and then it's like I don't
want to do this anymore, I wantto be a different person.
You know, or I'm, I'm going towrite a book now.
I'm going to be a wholedifferent person.
But you know, after a while itall just kind of became media to
me.
So it's like the people, theperson who you are, you can't
(18:18):
get rid of.
That's just, that's just you.
You're stuck with that.
But then you've got these othermodes of expression and you can
express yourself in a way thata 14-year-old would applaud and
scream at or a way that a50-year-old would applaud and
enjoy.
And I think you have to, inyour mind, as an artist, as
(18:41):
you're making these things, youhave to keep your path clear and
understand what it is you'retrying to do.
You know I'm not trying to getthe same things out of a ralph
champagne record as I'm tryingto get out of a dwarves record.
So if something will occur to meto do.
That would be really funny inthe dwarves context I have to
remember.
Oh, I can't really do that withthis because people won't take
(19:01):
the joke the same way.
You know you can make veryoffensive jokes in the dwarves
that have a certain scenarioEveryone's dying, everyone's
being murdered, everyone's ondrugs, you know.
And then when you're writing abook, you know you more have to
take on different characters'personas and to tell the story
(19:22):
right.
You can't just have thisone-dimensional pounding over
the head with it.
So right, that's what's beeninteresting about kind of having
different scenarios?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
different personas, yeah, of how you show up and
still communicate with people.
So it is clear you've mentionedit a couple of times, but the
research was clear that some ofwhat the dwarves do is
controversial, sensational,angry.
Even so, in today's climate wementioned, things have, like you
(19:56):
know, settled down.
They're a little more careful.
But do you see that work thatyou guys do from from the dwarf
side?
Do you think that's acommentary on extremism and bad
behavior, or is it?
Or is it just who you were atthe time and you carried forward
?
that that kind of persona,people expected.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's all of the above .
I mean to me, it was always afunny thing and you either got
the joke or you didn't.
At the same time yes, a lot oftimes when people thought we
were just joking, it was like,nope, we weren't joking about
that you know you can't with us,we're gonna get you, you know
so it was like you know, I thinkit.
(20:40):
you know, my concern was alwaysmaking great art that I enjoyed
and trying to just pay my billsso that I could make that art
Fair.
And so, you know, we got leftout of a lot of things.
We got left out of a lot ofrecord deals, a lot of radio
play, a lot of media coverage, alot of the.
(21:02):
You know, the Dwarves sort ofalready paid our dues by being
so extreme that we was just like, yeah, okay, you guys, you know
, ha ha, we get the joke, butyou're not invited, you're not
included.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
We're not putting you on this plane yet.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know, you just got that left off.
And so what's funny is that,you know, know we, I became very
hardened to all of that.
Okay, and so you know, as theyears went on, funny things
happen, right, because you watchsomebody.
You got a great record deal inthe 90s trying to play it safe
or be somewhere between PearlJam and Candlebox and whatever
(21:39):
they were trying to be, and nowyou know that that's the biggest
moment of their life, you knowand they'll never get that back
and they're just like you knowhow come nobody cares about what
I was doing in 1995.
It's like, whereas we had tostay strong, you know, because
nobody did care.
So it was like, okay, you know,we're gonna make records we
(22:01):
think are, we don't care howmany copies we sell, we don't
care whether the radio thinksthis is acceptable, we're just,
we're going to be happy withdoing what we do.
And the paradox is peoplerecognize the, the, you know
that integrity, yeah, and sowhen the whole kind of
cancellation movement happened,we were kind of immune to it.
(22:25):
It's like, what are you goingto do?
Like I had nudity on the coverof 10 records, you know, I said
in every other song title like,what exactly are you going to do
that's going to expose me asthis horrible person who was,
you know, insincere, you know,whereas you look at these other
(22:45):
bands who've kind of fallen, youknow anti flag or whatever,
yeah.
Invariably, it was these bandsthat had this moral thing.
They were always moralizing atyou and pointing at you and
telling you why you were asexist or a racist or a bad
person, or a racist or a badperson.
And lo and behold, it turnedout.
Oh, you know, those were thepeople who weren't very morally
(23:10):
upright, you know what I mean.
And all of a sudden they haveto run away screaming They've
been canceled, right, they werecoming on so moralistic, but oh,
it turned out they were shittypeople.
I think with the dwarves it wasjust the opposite.
You know, we came on like wehave no morals, we don't get it.
Yeah, we're not trying to beyour friend, we're not trying to
(23:33):
be your moral exemplar.
And then, oh, it turned out wewere actually pretty cool and we
were a legitimate undergroundrock band and we weren't some
corporate thing.
We actually did treat peoplepretty well and everything was
actually pretty good.
So you know, it's like that,that sort of sweet revenge.
You know a lot of people who Ihad to watch vault past me in
the eighties and the ninetiesare still struggling because
(23:56):
they never quite figured out youknow how to make a t-shirt
without their manager doing itfor them, and and how to get a
record out of people withouttheir PR team doing it for them.
But all those things go away.
You know you lose the PR team,you lose the management, you
lose that stuff.
And so you know we're proud tostill be here.
(24:19):
I still go out and play musicwith my friends.
I still have a good timeplaying music with my friends,
and people listen to it and Imake a living at it, so I
consider myself very fortunate.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
A very fortunate human.
Yeah, I talk with a lot ofpeople that are our age about
relevance, because I think whenyou hit your 50s, most of us not
you, maybe, but most of us arestarting life's changing.
How people look at us changes.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
So how do you girls, just look right through me now
you know instead of clawingtheir way to the stage right.
So you know, you go to the gymand there's a bunch of college
chicks are just looking.
They're just looking rightthrough you and you go to the
supermarket.
You don't even register anymore.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So how do you look at relevance, other than those chicks that
don't know any better?
They will grow up one day.
But what do you think relevanceis about?
Is it about staying consistentor is it about, like, finding
new ways to shift or grow?
Grow more than shift?
You are so authentic and trueto yourself.
(25:26):
I don't think you shift, but Ithink you do.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, I you know, I think there's two ways of
looking at it.
You know, one is the sort ofuniversal way.
You know, does any of thismatter in the context of?
You know, love and family andyou know oral virtue?
Speaker 1 (25:42):
you know and I think the answer is no, it doesn't
matter.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
And then there's the level on which it's like well,
what about just making peoplewant to wake up and face the day
?
What about making a song thatjust makes you happy that day?
What about painting a picturethat just made somebody smile?
You know, and I think in thatway it's the most important
things that people do, you know.
So I think in that way it'sjust eternally relevant, whereas
(26:13):
commercially it has norelevance or importance at all
yeah, I love it.
You have to kind of beschizophrenic in that way and
understand both sides of it.
You know I.
You know the time when I wasgoing to sell out madison square
garden or have the number onesong on on terrestrial radio.
(26:37):
You know those, those thingsare over and so the people who
were struggling with that whenthey were 20 and really that was
important to them, I think theyhave a problem with their
relevance.
You know, my, my stuff is morelike I'm making a cool
underground album for the couplethousand people that are going
to understand it.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, yeah, you know, identify with it.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That's what I'm doing , you know.
So, you, if that's what you'redoing, then you can be
infinitely relevant within thatcontext.
You know what I mean.
For those 5,000 people, itmeans everything.
For the other 8 billion peopleit means nothing.
You know, and that's just sortof where it's at.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah.
So who are you offstage?
What would surprise peopleabout music or moments that your
closest fans would go?
Oh God, no, barry Manilow,really.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, my guilty pleasures in music.
Well, for a start, I was raisedin musical theater.
I never got a part or anything.
But you know, for me, yeah, Iwas raised in musical theater.
I never got a part or anything,but you know for me.
Yeah, I mean my favorite stuffis.
Guys and Dolls and the Musicman.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh, that is surprising.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
I, like, you know, the cornier the musical the
better.
And when it comes to you know,old music, I like old pop, music
from the 20s and 30s of jazzand blues and country, like just
old records that people wouldnot associate with me at all
because they're easy on my brain, they don't pound at me like
(28:16):
the music that I make, you know,yep, so that would probably
sort of surprise people.
And then just, you know theboring things that I find
interesting.
You know, I find it interestingLike my band has no political
(28:36):
side to it whereas a lot ofother bands do.
But I actually find politicsinteresting and read about it
and think about it.
I just don't, I just don'tassociate that with what I do.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And and so again, you know there's a lot of kind of
schizophrenia involved with it.
There's a lot ofcompartmentalizing and putting
stuff here.
You know the kind of stuff Iwant.
You know I was never veryinterested in family stuff.
I was never very interested infamily stuff, you know.
But now I'm old and puttingtogether my family and so it's
(29:09):
different.
You know, now it's now thatstuff is really interesting to
me, whereas for most of theyears that other people were
doing that stuff was like, yeah,I have no interest in that, I'm
not going to do any of that,you know.
So it's.
You know, I think you can't.
I think also with a lot ofpeople in music or the arts,
they take their image seriously,whereas to me the image is
(29:32):
humorous and that's the fun, andthen the actual person is there
.
If you want to get to know thatperson, you can, you know, but
it's not as fun, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
You know, I admitted that I wasn't a big music person
at the beginning of this, andso I don't know, do you guys
like change your identities onstage?
I was a.
I was a big Kiss fan when I wasa kid Right, and I mean, you
remember those guys were in fullmakeup and it was like like
this national phenomenon aboutoh who are they really, you know
?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Yeah, real names or no, they had kind of stage names
, I guess I think they hadstagey names because, one was
somebody's star, you know, yeah,so anyway, Right, yeah, that's
right.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Gene Simmons has done very well as a business person.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, Gene Simmons was the name of an old movie
star from the 40s, a femaleactually I didn't know that.
And he, yeah, he appropriated.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
So they ripped off her name.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I think he has a very sort of.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Jewish.
He may be a Paul as well.
There's a Paul in the Kisslineup.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, Paul Stanley Again.
I think his name is, like PaulStanley, something Jewish yeah
yeah, yeah Him and.
Gene were kind of these.
You know, they had this vision.
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
So do you guys change your identity on stage, or do I
mean, or are you?
Are you because you're verytheatrical in what your album
covers and the words that youuse in your music are meant to
elicit responses?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Just in T-shirts and board shorts.
I saw Kenny Chesney in Vegasabout a month ago because I was
at a conference, not because Iwanted to see, and I was like
that man is in is in like cargopants and a T-shirt and he
rolled out of bed and wore hisball cap.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
To him that feels very legit, Like this is real me
, you know whereas a lot oftimes with artists like that,
right, the people who are doingall the stuff are their
management, so that they canthen sit around and be like, hey
, this is just me, you know it'slike yeah right?
Well, you tell your managementwhat to do to make you appear
(31:53):
larger than life and then it'slike but this is just me, I'm
just a regular guy.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Yeah, get me on my tractor.
Yeah, exactly.
So let's do what I like to.
My final segment is usually alightning round, and these are
so much fun because I get tojust rapid fire questions at
people and they get to give me,you know, shorter answers that
aren't maybe as compelling aboutthe world and society, so
(32:20):
they're more pointed maybe.
So for a lightning round, let'sask so what's a band you
secretly love that your fanswould not expect?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Band that I secretly love.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I'm voting on Barry Manilow.
I had Paige Brodby on the showThings like that.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
It would be like Steely Dan right, oh, thank you.
Steely Dan, they've got these,you know, corny or very, you
know, like jazzy session guystuff, which is sort of the
polar opposite of a lot of whatI've done, you know.
But I find it interesting tolisten to them and hear their
kind of clean 70s cocainetechnique, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Cocaine.
So who's a band?
Because because you know peopleare going to listen to this and
go listen to that band becauseit surprises them.
Let's listen to that band yeah,who, you got one that comes to
mind it's what steely dan.
That's not a band steely dan,that wasn't a real answer, was
it?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
yeah, oh, geez okay steely Go.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Steely Dan, I was expecting something less
commercial from you.
No, that's the point.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
That's my guilty pleasure.
I'm fine with the commercials.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Good good, I love it.
Fine.
So punk has been around.
How long has punk been around?
50 years, if you've been doingit 40?
.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
It depends where you trace the beginning of it.
I trace the beginning of it tothe mid sixties, where the bands
like Deeds and the 13th floorelevators and these obscure like
sixties garage bands.
To me that's where punk starts,with the Sonics and that kind
of stuff.
Then of course you get to likelate sixts where you get like
the Stooges and then early 70swith bands like the New York
(34:11):
Dolls and stuff like that.
I think modern punk kind ofstarts with the Ramones in the
mid 70s.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I've heard of some of these.
I'm excited.
Yeah, Okay, good.
Well, so you know, clearlypeople who started with the
genre are aging out in some way.
So if punk had a retirementvillage, what would you name it?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Broken Dreams.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Broken Dreams.
Okay, I love it, that works.
So we've talked about albumcovers.
We've talked about art andalbum covers and how your music
is somewhat controversial andyou said you had 10 albums with
nudity on the cover.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, there's probably maybe 20 records total,
and at least half of them havenudity on the cover.
I like looking at attractivefemales.
That was always my thing.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I figured.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Why would you want to look at a picture of me when
you could look at a picture ofan attractive female?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Or that, that famous Nirvana cover with the little
boy swimming in the pool like atoddler.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Well, that that says more about them, that it's a
little boy, you know.
But I won't get into Nirvana'shabits.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
I was in grad school when Kurt passed away.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
So, yeah, that was the big ending we played with
Nirvana 1991.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Wow, and that would have been by the time I was
headed to grad school, soamazing.
So if you could redo just oneof those album covers, which one
would you redo and why?
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Oh boy, okay, do just one of those album covers.
Which one would you redo andwhy?
Oh boy, I had a chance to redoone called sugar fix.
Um, and we made it better.
You know, we went to a girl'ssweet 16, okay, we took pictures
there and it was kind of a dopethemed sweet 16.
Yep, so we had, like you know,like spoons but with a pixie
(36:13):
stick going into it and stufflike that over a candle.
You know, it was kind ofmocking the everybody was dying
on drugs.
But the guy who shot it, it wassort of a news photographer guy
.
He wasn't like a portraitphotographer he didn't really
know what he was doing yeah sowe had to go back and, you know,
(36:33):
lighten it up and bring outsmiles and do all this stuff,
like you can do theseinteresting things now, you know
.
Yeah, so so we went back andkind of remade that one and that
was interesting, you know, orlike there was one that a guy
had taken with this tiny littlemodel, but he did it with a tiny
little dog, so she didn't looktiny enough, things like that,
(36:54):
you know.
So I'll go, I'll go back andredo them.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I never redo them to make them cleaner yeah, okay,
and that's a statement to melook better, you know yeah yeah,
because you had anothercreative interpretation of it,
so that's good.
So a lot of people are primadonnas.
I've I I work less with bandsand more with speakers, so I've
known people who absolutely haveto have diet mountain dew
(37:18):
backstage, you know they have.
They have some little thingthat's there like must have so
what's your must have backstagea toilet.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
We're so easy.
Can I come?
Support you yeah, okay itdoesn't even have to be clean.
I mean, it is rock and roll, soit's probably going to be
filthy, but just please get atoilet bag there yeah, yeah give
you that one favor no, allgreen m&ms or diet mountain
deuce for you just just aheadthat's all you need.
Well, that's, that's it.
(37:50):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
So what's the worst gig you've ever done?
What's what stands out inmemory is one of the worst gigs
ever wow, worst gigs everbecause of course it has to have
a funny story with it right, I,I play acoustically.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Sometimes I'm a really piss poor acoustic guitar
player, so anytime I have topull the guitar out it makes me
sad.
And I've done some very funnyshows.
I have funny songs, you know,and so you know I've gotten a
lot of laughs doing those shows.
But they just torture me.
I just hate playing guitar.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So do you play any instrument on stage, or is it
just you being the front man?
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's just me being the front man.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
And I shouldn't say just because that's a full-time
job.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yes, well, I mean most of what I do is writing
songs and that you know I needan instrument for sometimes,
sometimes, I just do it in myhead.
Yeah, but I hate having toperform on it.
I don't enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Okay, love it.
So 10, 15 years from now,you're curating your Black black
dahlia museum yes what's thefirst item that you pull into
one of those lit glass cases toshow?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
who you are probably my rock guy gloves.
You know I have my.
My gloves I've been wearingsince the 80s okay, so that's
your sometimes I forget them,but usually I have them on.
You know, this sort ofshop-worn retro piece of
clothing.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
It's part of your stage presence, so I love it.
Good, that's right.
So, in retrospect, blagg, at 25years old, walks into the room.
What do you?
Sit him down and tell him.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
You know, be a little bit nicer, don't be so mean.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Don't be so impatient .
Things will happen in time.
Those would probably be twothings I would tell him Be a
little bit nicer and don't be soimpatient.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, any quotes that stand out for you or models
that stand out.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
If you can't be good, then be forceful.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Is that actually a quote?
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Or is that just your quote?
That's your quote, excellent.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Excellent, excellent.
Or is that just your quote?
That's your quote Excellent,excellent.
So if people want to follow you, to come see you guys, I mean,
we had to wait until you wereoff the road for a couple of
weeks.
But I think you're going backon the road in September, if I'm
not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Oh yeah, lots of time on the road and we're doing a
very long one.
Well, in September we're goingto go to Canada and we're going
to go to the East Coast doingone of those punk in the park
festivals out there, nice, inOctober, november, we're playing
with some old bands GWAR andHelmet.
So we're going to be going allover the country with GWAR and
(41:00):
Helmet and that will Will you beback on the West Coast, like
within an hour's drive of theBay Area?
Yes, absolutely, we'll be inberkeley there and excellent, I
think it's late october, we'rewe're in berkeley, so definitely
come out and see us I plan to,I plan to, I will.
How would I find you online sothat our the dwarvescom has all
(41:23):
our tour dates, ticket links,you know press, know press
clippings, all that good stuff,if you just go to the dwarvescom
.
And of course we're on Facebook, instagram, all those places
where commercialized people sellthemselves.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, yeah, excellent .
So the dwarvescom.
I'll put it in the show notes.
Maybe, I'll get a gaggle offriends of my age who might
remember our Violent Femmesfraternity party dancing and
bring you a group of women forthe front row that have a little
more maturity on us take yourtop off never.
(41:59):
Oh, that's wonderful, excellent.
So we look forward, then, toseeing you at the end of October
.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
I would love it.
Wonderful, it would bewonderful.
Thank you for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, so it has been great to have you on NorCal
Narratives.
There's a difference in beingloud and being listened to,
that's right, that's right,that's right.
And you have presented so manyopportunities for people to
listen to you and to see you inso many different dimensions, so
(42:34):
it's really wonderful to havemet you.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Well, thanks very much.
Thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Wonderful so NorCal Narratives closing off the day,
from KPCR 92.9 in Los Gatos.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Pirate Cat Radio.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Pirate Cat Radio.
Pirate Cat Radio.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Shout out to Daniel, my station director and shout
out to Pixie, DJ Pixie and hermature content show.
There's a lot of great stuffgoing on at Pirate Cat Tune in
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
We appreciate that, Thank you.
I've been with the stationsince early spring and it has
been a fun experience, yeah it'sgreat down there.
And we just added a station andI have to look at KVBE 91.1 in
Portland, so this will bebroadcast in Portland and then
also in Santa Cruz.
Yeah, and in Santa Cruz we haveKMRT.
(43:32):
That's 101.9 LP out of Santa.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Cruz.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
So you are hitting the Bay Area, santa Cruz and
Portland.
I think people are going to bevery interested.
We might have a heck of a showfor you when you come to
Berkeley Right on.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Thanks.
We might have a heck of a showfor you when you come to
Berkeley Right on.
Well, thanks, we'll see yousoon.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Okay.
So whether or not you love punkor if you even know anything
about it, conversations likethis they remind us that
longevity often requirescontradiction, because this
whole call has been about reallyinteresting contradictions and
dimensions of Blagg, also knownas Paul, maybe by only his mama
(44:12):
at this point.
But Blag and Paul have giveninto the world, and maybe that's
the most rebellious thing ofall is that you have shown
people so many different thingsto think about and the different
ways that you show up.
So it's been a pleasure to meetyou.
And everyone in the audiencefrom NorCal Narratives.
(44:35):
We will see you next time.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Take it easy Bye-bye, awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Thank you, Blagg.
Host
Tonya J. Long
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