Rock Tours, Rejection, and Reinvention: A Journey to AI Entrepreneurship

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya J. Long (00:03):
Welcome, friends.
I'm Tonya Long and this isRESET.
Each week, we shareconversations with thought
leaders, innovators and thedreamers and doers who are
reshaping the future of work,technology, longevity and
purpose.
So settle in and let's explorewhat happens when purpose meets

(00:25):
possibility.
Welcome to RESET where purposemeets possibility.
We are here, live in the studio,in gorgeous, sunny, beautiful
blue sky, los Gatos, and this isnot a recording, although I say
that every show because it isjust so beautiful.
Here I am here today with afriend, Jim Recker, who is part
of my Change the Worldtechnology network that I think

(00:48):
you're all familiar with.
Jim has a couple of decades ofsales experience and that's why
I'm so fascinated with Jim,because I've always been an
operator and Jim is a classicsales leader.
But if you can see Jim, if youwatch the, the podcast later,
you'll see Jim's not a youngfounder.
Jim is like I said.

(01:08):
He had a couple of decades atleast with companies like WebEx,
blue jeans.
You were one of my competitorsat one point when I was at Avaya
, as the video craze was comingthrough, and but now Jim is.
I think it's interesting.
He's at a place in his lifewhere most people are running
toward retirement and insteadJim's founded a new company.

(01:31):
He's a CEO for the first time,I believe and is building some
of the newest technology withagentic agents handling product
go-to-market.
So I think it's fascinatingthat here, when a lot of people
are thinking about rockingchairs and more camping, Jim
looking at how to build a wholenew ecosystem in the world of

(01:53):
how we go to market digitallyand autonomously using AI agents
.
So, Jim, welcome, it is so goodto have you here.

Jim Recker (02:01):
It's so great to be here.
I'm so excited to be here.
It's been something that I'vebeen thinking about for the last
couple of weeks, especiallysince we got postponed last week
, but the one thing that Iactually find most exciting is
that we are together.
And yes, to put things inperspective, and for those who
can see me, I'm old enough tosay that I saw Led Zeppelin live
on stage.

That's a great way to categorize your age.
At least it wasn't the GratefulDead, though I suspect you
might have seen a couple ofthose shows as well.

Jim Recker (02:26):
I used to tour actually with the Grateful Dead,
so it's a whole other story.

We could talk about that and I think the
audience would be much moreinterested in the Grateful Dead
stories than the AI agenticstories.
Do you want to start with oneGrateful Dead story?

Jim Recker (02:39):
I got I'll call it suckered into it because I put
together a video reel for afriend of mine who was directing
the video for the Grateful Deadand they saw the video.
They hired my friend.
They said, well, who edited thevideo?
And Jim did so.
Okay, well, Jim should come ontour with us.
So I went on tour with them fora couple of years and I was

(02:59):
supposed to do a show inSeptember of 95.
And I got to work.
I was working for a smallstartup and the front desk said
oh, I'm so sorry about Jerry,I'm going.
What do you mean?
Well, you heard he passed rightLike no.
And I just got called up lastnight to work, shoreline.
Unfortunately, Jerry had passedand that was the end of my tour
with the Grateful Dead.

Yeah, wow, but that's a good story.
So I have a lightning roundthat I've started doing.
It's a lot of fun at the end.
But I think I have a reallygood lightning-style question
right now.
If you could do that again andtour with anyone who's a
current-living performing artistnow, who would you want to go
out on the road with?

Jim Recker (03:39):
Nobody that actually pops to mind, and I don't think
I would want to go on the road.
It's a hard job.

Well, yeah, we've been traveling executives with
companies, so everyone thinkstravel is so sexy and really
travel is a slog.

Jim Recker (03:53):
It's hard on your body your family.
A lot of work and no sleep, soit's something I wouldn't do.

I'll think about one, maybe by the end of the
show you might have somebody popinto your mind.
I don't see a lot of shows, butI tend to see the really big
ones, and I live right acrossfrom SAP and that's a major
concert venue in the Bay Area,and so I pick up StubHub tickets
like 45 minutes before theshow's supposed to start.
And the last show I deeplyenjoyed was the Queen touring

(04:27):
act with Adam Lambert and wewere sitting at the pool, it was
somebody's birthday and what anamazing performance by Adam
Lambert and by most of theoriginal members of the Queen
band and it was magical to watchthem perform.
And so that's some music backfrom the time periods that
you're talking about.

Jim Recker (04:43):
I'll go to a show, but I'm not going to work them
anymore.
But you're not going to workthem anymore.

You're just going to enjoy.

Jim Recker (04:48):
Exactly, I love it.

Well, speaking of work this whole, I'm not in a
public conversation these dayswithout a genetic AI coming up.
I was at an industry panel lastnight about M&A and AI and what
struck me is how, even thoughwe're in the Bay Area and we're

(05:12):
in a bubble we're in a bubblewhere everybody seems to talk
tech at some level becausethey're either in tech or
adjacent there is still a bigdifference in what people know
and what they think they knowand where they operate in
conversations.
So what has been?
you're moving into agentic AIwhich is the super fast F1 race
car right now on the AI front,but I'm still surprised at how

(05:34):
many people don't understandagentic AI and don't know quite
how to frame it in ourtechnological journey.

Jim Recker (05:41):
Yep.
So it's quite simple.
I tell people I'd love for youto share.
No, it's very simple, quitefrankly.
Gender of AI, which has beenaround for a good number of
years so far, is reactive, soyou have to create a prompt.
That's the concept behindgender of AI, yep, and where the
challenge is with most peopleis they don't know how to put
together a prompt.
I've actually been hired toteach people how to do prompts.

(06:06):
I've actually been hired bylarge corporations to help them
adopt AI, chatgpt, claude,whatever it doesn't matter,
they're all the same.
Well, they're not all the same,that's another story.
But the prompting is thechallenge for most people and
there are some companies thatare still just starting up.
I went to I won't say whichvendor it was, but it's one of
the largest companies here inthe Bay Area and they had an

(06:28):
accelerator event and peopleflew in from Los Angeles and I
was shocked, just because theywanted to learn how to prompt.

But that's generative AI.

Jim Recker (06:37):
Now agentic AI.
On the other hand, that'sproactive and it's autonomous,
and the best way to describe itis imagine creating what I'll
call robots and you set them offon tasks and they know how to
do their tasks and they don'trequire any rest Perfect for
setting up concerts, by the way.
But that is the primarydifference proactive versus

(07:00):
reactive and the proactive stuffhas me fascinated because it's
still at its infancy and, yes,not many people know about it
Certainly people outside theSilicon Valley, but it will be
taking over our lives and, in myopinion, I think this will be a
revolution larger than the.
I'll call it the industrialrevolution in the 1800s.

So and this is a lot of this is I think it's
influenced by the discussions Iwas in last night.
I do think it's revolutionary.
I agree, help people understand.
We we technologists andfuturists are still talking too
conceptually and I think that'swhy people are having trouble
grasping what it really meansfor them.

(07:45):
So what are a couple of waysagentic AI works that people can
go oh, I get that flow, that'sagentic.
What are just a couple of easyfor the audience, because we
have a really broad list.

Jim Recker (07:58):
I'll do a simple one , because I actually built a
couple of agents a couple ofmonths ago, so I had to learn
myself what agents were allabout, and I wanted to
understand what made an agent.
So the agent I built out endedup on a webpage is the best way
of putting it.
It was just online and itdidn't do very much, but you
could say what time is it andwhat's the weather, and so its

(08:20):
task was to tell you the timeand tell you the weather.
That's all it was doing.
Now, that's just a chatbot.
It's not a chatbot in the sensethat I could add more features
to it, to create tone, to createpersonality, to create a number

(08:43):
of different things that wouldbe uniquely task related, and so
, if you think about it, a lotof the things that we do on our
daily basis are task orientated.
Oh, 100%.
And so if you have an agent thatcan do those tasks for you,
your productivity will skyrocket.
And this is why the talk aroundthe Silicon Valley and around

(09:04):
the world already is that theseagents, how would they impact
the workforce?
Because it's just a task Now.
Bots are reactive because you'reessentially asking them
something that they've beentrained to respond to.
But agents can go out and gobeyond that because they can do

(09:26):
research on their own.
And so, for instance, if it'snot programmed to do that, you
can program an agent to actuallyresearch for you.
And the way I'm using it thego-to-market cycles that I'm
building is that you will go out, for instance, if you needed to
do some market intelligence,you'll go out and do that for
you.
That's not reactive, it'sproactive and it's doing it

(09:49):
autonomously as well.

There's a founder here in the Bay Area and she
has a company that she'sfamously here turned over her
responsibilities as CEO to theagents that they've built.

Jim Recker (10:02):
Yes, are you familiar with her?
I'm not, but I'm not surprised.

She does a brilliant job.
It's clear to me that it is not100% autonomously being this.
We still require certain thingslike the human showing up at a
bank to sign a signature card.
Things like that are theconstructs of our society, where
the human still has to be inthe loop.
I think what she has done isshe has marvelously identified

(10:27):
all those task level things.
She repeatedly does, and often,as executives, we recall we can
have things that are in ourmental model of the things we
need to do weekly, daily, weeklymonthly but other priorities
come in and scoot those to theside.
And we're getting them done onplanes or at six in the morning

(10:48):
before the meeting.
So to take these repeatabletasks that a CEO does the
analysis, the check-ins and toautomate those things because
they are repeated, they dohappen day in weekend, on a
regular basis I think it wasbrilliant for her to do that and
then publicly declare I haveturned the company's, the

(11:12):
running of the company, the CEOrole, over to our agent and I
think it's just, it's messagingwhat's coming.

Jim Recker (11:19):
Correct.
There will be humans involvedwhen there's human interaction.
That's required.
You mentioned SAP, and at SAPis the San Jose Sharks, and I
don't think it's publicknowledge yet, but there will be
fewer and fewer account execsworking for the San Jose Sharks
because they're not reallynecessary.
I'm not going to saynecessarily the San Jose Sharks,

(11:40):
but a whole bunch of areas thatdo sales, for I'll call it the
standard exchange, the standardpurchase.
Even now, fewer and feweraccount executives out there.
Now, if you need to be somebodywho's doing group sales, for
instance, that's a differentmatter, because then you're
working on a personalrelationship, working with a
group of people, and in thosescenarios you'll still see

(12:02):
humans.
However, 10 years down the road, I can easily see agents taking
over.

Yeah, how far did you say?

Jim Recker (12:10):
Well, I'll see, even five years down the road.

You do or don't, I do Good, I do absolutely Last
night's panel was talking inframeworks of 10 to 20 years and
I was just trying to be politeand respectful but I was like,
oh no, 10 to 20 years.
I think we won't recognize ourbusiness processes because so
much will be under the hood.

Jim Recker (12:29):
I agree, and I will also add to that.
Already I was reading anarticle last night about
somebody, about a group ofpeople actually, that were
programming agents to make theirprompts better, and so they
were getting prompts.
They were 10x more effectivethan the prompts they had
started out with and I'mthinking to myself well, wait a

(12:52):
second.
Then they essentially were ableto accelerate whatever they
were working on indeed that'swhat they're doing.
So the acceleration of what wedo is going to be unrecognizable
, I think within four or fiveyears.
I think part within four orfive years.

And I think part of the credit for that goes to
humans, not just building thetechnology but sharing how to
use it.
I'm in a few WhatsApp channelsand many LinkedIn channels where
people are openly sharing theirsuper prompt level ideas.
And there was one yesterdaythat was like oh, this is a

(13:26):
McKenzie Bain killer because itwas this fairly lengthy prompt
but it was to create an entireportfolio analysis requiring
agents right that go out and theagents.
This is not anything specialper se.
This is like deep researchfunctionality already built into
your major LLMs.
That's correct, but just I did acopy paste of the prompt, just

(13:50):
tucked in an industry verticalcouple of I think I filled in
like five fill in the blanks forwhat I wanted and then watched
it work for 10, 15 minutes andit spit out a report.
That was analysis that McKinseyand Bain would typically charge
large dollars and quite a bit oftime and energy from the

(14:12):
company they're working for andthen expending that energy with
their analysts to go dig upthings, and I was like, wow,
this is beautiful and it wasinstant.
It also means that things that,as an executive, I wouldn't
have paid for because theyweren't in budget for me to get
Bain to go do an analysis.
Now I, as a leader, can say Iwant to look at this, and I can

(14:35):
go make some coffee and comeback to my desk and say, huh,
yep, that is the right pivot orthat's not.
So I think it really is goingto speed decision making for the
people who learn to rely onthese tools.

Jim Recker (14:48):
And then the question is are they still going
to be needed to make thosedecisions, because an agent can
make those decisions for them?

I think they'll be making different decisions.

Jim Recker (14:57):
Like the.

CEO that I mentioned that had turned over
her duties.
What I hope is that it turnsCEOs into better leaders,
because they're not secondguessing we know what it is.
They're not second guessingtheir teams and running all
these shadow IT ops analysis.
They are leading humans andmachines.

(15:19):
That's a different conversation, but they are spending and
investing more time in the humanconnection.
That is uniquely the capabilitythey have to further the brand,
to keep their employees thatare human employees engaged and
to be strategic about direction.

Jim Recker (15:36):
But you've nailed down something that I feel is
terribly important.
Being a CEO is that you have tohave those emotional qualities
as well, and emotions issomething that I don't think
agents will be able to take overfor a good time to come.
We'll see it in the sciencefiction movies.
Emotion is something that isnot at all part of an agent
right now.
They're cold and calculated, asI put it.

They're doing the work.
Yes, that's right, but here'ssome work, if you will, in the
industry, that we're findingHumans are responding better to
digital inputs.
Because it is unprovoked Idon't have the word, but it's
unprovoked.
It's an assessment.

(16:21):
It's simply these numbers weremissed.
It is clinical and people don'tfeel judged.
So on the medical side, I'm atype 1 diabetic.
I've talked about this before.
I'm working with some companieswhere they're testing
applications to give peoplealmost real-time feedback.
So you don't wait for yourquarterly visit with your
endocrinologist and people arereally receiving the feedback
well when it comes in throughtheir phone, because it's not

(16:44):
the human doctor judging themfor eating the wrong thing for
breakfast and not bolusingcorrectly.
It's just a readout and it'slike, yeah, I probably shouldn't
have had that extra cantaloupe.

Jim Recker (16:56):
The two areas that I've seen that have had a huge
impact chat-chippy tea beingused by teenagers for therapy
hugely popular, popular, yes,yes.
And the other thing I wastalking to a friend of mine the
other day who does professionalcoaching.
His business has gone down tonothing.

I think that's.
I sought coaching on ChatGPTthis week and it was terrible oh
.

Jim Recker (17:21):
I imagine it was.

And I am a certified executive coach, so I
might operate with a differentset of expectations.
But it jumped in and itconsulted.
It gave me the answers withoutasking me what I was trying to
accomplish and I was preparingfor a coaching session in an
industry I had no familiaritywith.
So I was like, let me get alittle help.
And when I did, and then itcame back and I was like, oh,

(17:43):
this is terrible.

Jim Recker (17:44):
Then of course I was like let me get a little help.
And when I did, and then itcame back and I was like, oh,
this is terrible.

Then, of course, I was immediately like looking
for custom GPTs I could poachfrom.
There weren't any good ones andI said well, maybe this is an
agent base I need to createBecause it's some of the you are
still.
You're the technology.
You are still serving humans.

Jim Recker (18:02):
Correct.

And those human needs that we've figured out
over the last hundred years arestill real in terms of how to
address people and finding andprobing for what the problem is
before you start solving it.
Those are common sense forhumans and we can program that
common sense into machines.
I think machines will handle alot more of the emotional tasks,

(18:26):
if you will.
A good friend of mine, my bestfriend here, is a therapist.
She was anti-AI two years agobut now she is understanding the
value of those college-age kidsdoing some of the pre-work, of
really fine-tuning and swimmingthrough all the issues to get to
what is the real problem, sothat when they show up on her

(18:47):
couch then they are moreprepared, more aware of
themselves.

Jim Recker (18:53):
Correct.

They've been through a lot of the thinking
exercises so she can hit theground running at a higher level
instead of so much intake,which makes her job more fun too
, because she's solving the realchallenges.

Jim Recker (19:05):
But nevertheless the impact is already there.

Yes, nevertheless , I agree, and she reports the
same thing.
So, coaching versus counselingtwo related sets of needs just
delivered differently.

Jim Recker (19:21):
Correct.

Yeah, it'll be interesting.
Humans are at the base of allthis and experience.
I think what I've seen in AI isdeep technical knowledge
amongst some generationalelements, but deep experiential
knowledge for people like youand me.
So you had a few decades incompanies like WebEx and

(19:44):
BlueJeans.
I think that's absolutelycritical to how you think about
building for the future.
Have you found that your pastexperience is deeply informing
how you design technology forwhat's coming forward?

Jim Recker (20:02):
Well, I thought about this over the last couple
of days, having a little idea ofwhat we were going to talk
about, and then last night itall just dawned on me.
I said, oh, that's right, Iforgot.

My father had his own company.
Oh, forgot you justconveniently forgot?

Jim Recker (20:18):
Well, no, it's not been on my mind.
He passed like five years ago.
But he ran his own managementtraining company in Brussels,
belgium, and we had there wasfive kids yeah, went on
beautiful vacations.
So it wasn't like he wasn'tsuccessful, worked out really
well.
But he didn't teach me anythingof what he did in his business
and I and ironically, hisbusiness was his big claim to

(20:41):
fame is.
He developed a class calledfinancial management for the
non-financial manager and it wasvery successful with large
enterprises and he did very well.
But did I know how he ran hisbusiness and the challenges of
running the business andstarting a business and all that
?
He never even talked about it.
So did that influence me?
It may have influenced me wayin the back of my head to think

(21:03):
about starting a company again.
But I, quite frankly, I hadforgotten.
But to answer your question, Ithink the sum of all of my
experiences throughout my careerhas enabled me to be a leader,
to be a CEO, to launch into thiscrazy idea of building a

(21:24):
company with AI agents, and Idon't think I would be where I
am right now if I hadn't had allthat experience.
That experience came fromworking with large enterprises.
I worked with Ford MotorCompany, I worked with HP, I
worked with WebEx, with Cisco.
I did work and then Itransitioned over to startups.
Why, I'm not sure.

(21:44):
I guess because I got boredwith the enterprise.
I think I got bored with it andbecause the challenge of
climbing the ladder just wasexhausting.
You've heard of people who areenterprise survivors.
I was a great enterprisesurvivor, but sometimes you get
angry and sometimes you have toleave and sometimes things you
shake your head, going, going,why am I here?
This doesn't make any sense andyou can't control it.

(22:06):
So then I went to startupsthinking I could control things
better.
And I could.
And not only that, I had theexperience of going into all the
different areas.
I was in sales, I was inmarketing, I was in either in
product management, and so I hada variety of different
experiences that enabled me todo what I'm doing today.
I also realized at the sametime, too, that it's been really

(22:31):
helpful that I did these thingsand because if I'm trying to
create what I'm creating, whichis providing the tools to
accelerate the go-to-marketcycle, I wouldn't have been able
to do it if I hadn'texperienced in all these
different areas.
So I've had experience inproduct management.
I've had experience invisualizing well, actually

(22:54):
developing and acting as aproduct manager.
I haven't coded, although I amstarting to code a little bit
and I can tell what coders areup to because of my background
as a sales engineer, so I'mdangerous when it comes to that,
but I can't tell what codersare up to because of my
background as a sales engineer,so I'm dangerous when it comes
to that, but I can see whatpeople are doing.
I then got in the experience ofdoing some marketing and I've
done sales, and I was thinkingabout this last night.

(23:16):
I've done sales in a variety ofdifferent ways.
I was in a small littlebusiness selling equipments high
technology actually to put inpeople's home theater, and I
worked with a bunch of richpeople up in Tiburon and things
like that.
That was an interestingexperience and in Woodside did a
lot of fancy homes.
That way I was selling trainingtechnology internationally and

(23:39):
that boy, that can be differentdepending which country you're
in.
People learn different ways.
I was involved, learn differentways I was involved in
essentially in distribution.
I was involved in and mostrecently I did some fun things
such as product partnering andstrategic partnering with
companies like Cisco andMicrosoft and that all helped me
tremendously to where I amtoday.

So I think your experience does play in to how
you choose to build because ofyour understanding of how humans
think and make decisionscorrect.
Right, there are some youngerfounders that I work with.
That gap is evident, that theyjust haven't yet had an
opportunity to have the exposureto what triggers people to buy,

(24:23):
what triggers people to shutthe door in your face.
They are learning those thingsas CEOs because they've not had
that long corporate run like youand I did, and I think it's a
differentiator for our agebracket coming in doing this.
You're at a time in your lifewhen you should be, like we said
earlier, focused on retirementby old standards.

(24:44):
But now, for the ones of us whoare learners, who are really
actively engaged in stayingyoung, by how we think and what
we get to do, we're creatingthis new shift for ourselves.

Jim Recker (24:58):
Well, I would also say, too is I've never been so
excited to be involved intechnology as I am now.

Do you know how many times a week I hear that
it's just, but say more.

Jim Recker (25:09):
I thought SAS was fun.
Goodness SAS is now boring.
I'm so glad I'm out of SAS.
The possibility, the potentialis just so unlimited.
One of the things that Irecognize is that things will
change more rapidly than I canimagine.
The question will be is howwill different generations

(25:30):
handle it?
Younger generations are moreflexible and they're more
open-minded.
Older generations will I'll usethe word find it terrifying,
but will also just they'll tryto ignore that it's even
happening.
But it's going to happen,despite what anybody tries to do
.

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to take a quick second to
you.
I'm trying to find a segue inwhat you said.
Terrifying and bluegrass don'tgo together.
But I'm going to pull it andmake a quick public announcement
.
You guys who listen frequentlyhave heard about the Signal
Society and some of the thingsthat we're doing in the
community and, for those of youwho are local, we have Bluegrass

(26:11):
Magic coming to Felton on themountain on July 22nd and if
you're part of the SignalSociety, if you're not, you
should be, and when you are, youcan join the Signal Society at
kpcrorg slash join for a chanceto win tickets to the Bluegrass
Magic Mountain Grass Unitperforming in Felton on July
22nd.

(26:31):
We will announce the winners acouple of days before, on the
20th.
So back to KPCR LP 92.9 FM andKMRT 101.9 FM out of Santa Cruz.
We have Jim Recker in the househere at the station talking

(26:52):
about experience being used tobring I'll use wisdom into the
design of what you're doing andof your build of an agentic AI
system.
Tell me what your product isfocused on.
We're not making a pitch You'restill very early stages but I'm
curious what problem are yousolving for the world?

Jim Recker (27:14):
When I was at WebEx.
I was very fortunate to haverun into the head of engineering
those days, a guy named EricWong.
Oh, I know, Eric A lot ofpeople know Eric yeah tell the
world who Eric is.
So Eric was the Senior VicePresident of Engineering at
Cisco Webex.
When Cisco acquired Webex,there was some disagreements,

(27:36):
and so he picked up himself anda number of people from the
engineering team and created acompany called Zoom and yeah-,
so your headquarters is 200 feetout my front door of my home.
I know where you live then yes,that Zoom building is very
prominent.
Yes, and I actually from timeto time used to have coffee with
Eric in the early days he waslooking for open ears and open

(27:58):
hearts and just to get someideas on where he needed to go.
I lost touch with Eric beforehe became super wealthy.
It was before the pandemic.
The pandemic changed everythingfor everybody.

It certainly did.

Jim Recker (28:10):
But he was on stage last October at Zoomtopia, the
annual trade show that Zoom runs, and yes, eric, and I blame you
he got on stage and he wastouting the 3,000 new features
he came up with last year and Isaid to myself how did the
blankety blank?
I was just like what'smarketing, sales and customer
care going to do?
There's no way they can keep upwith that.

(28:32):
That's right.
And if you should go to zoomusright now and look at some of
the user interfaces on theirwebpages, gee, you will notice
that they're probably two orthree revs behind.
Why?
Because they are coming up withnew features, new releases.
I would say, sometimes two orthree releases on the same day,
but for sure they're coming upwith new features and new

(28:54):
releases.
The other week and I said, hey,that's a problem I can solve.
The technology is here.
I don't know anything aboutagentic AI, but I know that's
what it's there for and I knowit's there for me to
autonomously accelerate thewhole go-to-market process, and
that's what got me started.
Now, did I start off by sayingthat right away?

(29:14):
No, I said AI is the solution,and so I tried to figure out how
generative AI could figurethings out.
Oh, it could make a socialmedia post in seconds.
And I realized oh, chatgpt cando that, why would BandBetty buy
my solution?
People are still creatingsolutions to do these things
Well yes, I know, but it's justlike it doesn't make any sense.
And then, when I understood thepower of agents, I realized oh,

(29:40):
this is a whole another gamealtogether, because now I can
personalize the whole I'll callit the whole journey that
customers will go through usingcode with our go-to-market
products and that wholeexperience will be personalized
for them the sentiments, thetone, the feel, the branding and
all that.
And I can do that with agents.

(30:01):
And that's how I got launchedinto what I'm doing right now.

And the problem you're solving in industry is
specific to.

Jim Recker (30:09):
So it's really for those who were involved at any
part of the go-to-market cycleyou know how long it takes, you
know how much the effort is, youknow that you're missing key
personnel to do certain keythings, the the money you're
going to spend, and with agentsnow doing all of these
activities autonomously, we'regoing to be able to cut back the

(30:32):
time it takes to come out witha release, at least initially,
by 60%.
The cost in go-to-market isgoing to dramatically come down
and the results that you'regoing to get are so much better,
so much predictable and soeasier to control.
And then autonomous things Iwas talking to someone about the
other day, about how do peoplein the customer care department

(30:54):
keep their bots up to speed.
A lot of the customer caredepartments now use bots to
answer the typical questions.
Well, how are those updated?
No problem, you'll use an agentthat will actually easily be
triggered to update to thelatest and greatest, so the
customer calling in will alwaysget the right support
information.

Your mindset.
I had to think of the word thatwas my pause.
But your mindset is soentrepreneurial and yet you had
a great run in large-scaleenterprise corporate.
And it dawns on me that youwore multiple hats.
You were a sales engineer, youwere a sales leader.

(31:37):
You did several things inseveral different pieces of
industry.
How do you attribute thatexperience to supporting your
entrepreneur?
Because right now you are in100% entrepreneurial mode.

Jim Recker (31:50):
Correct.

With the development and the technology
that you're thinking about howto deploy to solve problems.
So how did that variety ofroles that you played contribute
to you being an entrepreneur?

Jim Recker (32:04):
I know I've learned it's not.
I know I've learned how toadapt to rejection.

Oh, now that's not the answer I expected, but
it's so true.
Yes, okay.

Jim Recker (32:18):
So when you talk about when I started to work
with WebEx and helping companiesunderstand the value of WebEx,
I had to first of all help themlook at what they were doing in
a different way.
Why are you getting on thatplane?
In fact, I used to do a lot ofsales.
I used to find myself sellingWebEx in the airports.
This is the best place to sell.

(32:38):
Like, why are you getting on aplane?
You could do this all online.
It's online.
Let me explain to you whatonline is.
And I wasn't even in sales.
I was the guy actuallyresponsible for helping
companies adopt WebEx TrainingCenter to enable their employees
and their customers globallyand do it much more effectively
by doing it online.
But I would I tell you, Tonya,the number of times I would run

(33:01):
into executives that just flatrefused to try to understand my
way of looking at things andtrying to change their
viewpoints required me tounderstand their fears, their
trepidations and to addressthose first to get them to
accept a new way of doingsomething.
And this is what actually I'mgoing to be facing with an

(33:24):
agentic eye platform, such aswith my company, Inveneer.
It's going to be a lot ofpushback and actually I'm
excited about it because Ialready figured out that I know
one customer and that's me.
My company is going to go tomarket pretty soon and we're
going to have to drink our ownchampagne In talking with people
around me who are allentrepreneurs and I know they

(33:46):
don't have any money but they'regoing to be great test cases so
I know they're going to beadopting.
So I'm purposely actually notgoing to be going after SMB or
mid-market.
I'm purposely going to go afterthat because I'm not going to
go after the large enterprises.
They're going to act too slowly.
Plus, the sales cycle is waytoo long.
But small to medium-sizedbusinesses they all have these
problems.
A lot of them don't have theright resources, they don't have

(34:08):
the right budget, they don'thave the time.
So I know there's a market outthere and as soon as we get our
build finished in the nextseveral weeks, I can't wait to
get it out there so people cansee how they can do things much
more logically, much more sanely.
But that, I think, is the bestway to answer your question is
to handle a rejection I want totake a look at your product when

(34:29):
it's further along.

I put 400 products into market leading
program operations for companieslike Avaya and Akamai, and when
you talk about what it can do,I think about the very large
teams I had that were just inthe mode of tracking all those
pieces across the entireworkflow, of not just developing

(34:51):
a product but releasing it intomarket, marketing, customer
service, tech pods, all thosecomponents that have to be part
of the build, and I see howthose can be automated.
So I'm pretty excited aboutwhat you're doing because I see
it and I think it's going to bea major shift in how we deliver

(35:11):
product.
You talked about a 60% fasterdeployment time.
I think that's very real.
I think, it's going to be amassive change management effort
with these large enterprisesthat have their waterfall.
They say they're agile, butthey're waterfall.

Jim Recker (35:27):
Exactly.

And we know this is an old debate, but I think
the change is going to be hard.

Jim Recker (35:33):
It's going to be hard, but it occurred to me that
you and I have an advantagethat most I'll call them younger
founders don't have, and thatis that we have built up an
ability to see, to perceivewhere things are going to go and
where.

Kind of seeing around corners.

Jim Recker (35:50):
Yes, yes, we can see around the corners and I have
been with some projects where Icould say to myself, oh, this is
not going to work down the roadand so I would drift away from
them.
And then I've seen some greatideas that just couldn't get any
traction, and a lot of it hadto do with it wasn't a product
that people could see helpingthemselves.

(36:12):
It also requires education toeducating your buyer.
I was thinking the other dayabout the way that I was working
at Oracle and, long storyincredibly short, I, my company,
got acquired by Oracle and I,just the day before acquisition,
signed a new contract withWebEx training center.
And gosh, I got chewed up by myboss.

(36:32):
And then I got chewed up by aVP and he says, well, we're
gonna just cancel that contract.
I said, no, you can't.
He says, why is not?
I said, well, this contract isfor Oracle training and they do
all their training online andthis is the best tool for
training.
They said, no, we're gonna useour own internal meeting
solution.
I said, no, let me tell yousomething, you have to have the
right tool for the job.

(36:53):
So I actually played andexplained this to him in a very
simple manner.
If you sit down and you have anice steak in front of you and I
give you a spoon, that's notgoing to be very helpful, is it?
And if I gave you a beautifulsundae, would you want to eat
that with a knife?
No, you want to have the righttool for the job, and so you
want a training tool to dointeractive online training, as

(37:17):
opposed to doing a meeting tool,which is designed for meetings.
Right, right?

I see that.

Jim Recker (37:23):
This is what I'm going to be doing with the
product I'm building.
I'm going to position it andshare where it fits best and how
it will facilitate and make youmore productive and save money,
etc.
All the different reasons youwant to buy my product.

I love it.
I love it.
Time for a quick station ID.
We are listening to KPCR 92.9FM out of sunny, bright,
beautiful blue Los Gatos, aswell as K215GA 90.9 FM and KMRT
101.9 FM out of sunny Santa Cruz.
We are here with Jim Recker inthe station and we've been

(38:04):
talking about Jim's progressioninto entrepreneurship, his
multiple hats that he's wornthrough a deeply effective
personal career in corporateenterprise work.
So I'm curious what was thepoint of your pivot?
What made you realize that youneeded to build your own thing

(38:28):
instead of just selling someoneelse's vision?

Jim Recker (38:35):
I would say first well, it all comes back to that
problem that Zoom has and a lotof companies.
I said I need to solve thatproblem.
And do I need to solve thatproblem?
Heck, yes, because it will getme involved in some new
technology.
I always loved new technology.
Again, I'm the guy who saw LedZeppelin on stage, so I remember

(38:57):
analog tools.

Yes.

Jim Recker (38:58):
And then we migrated over to digital tools, and then
we I remember some of thestorage devices we had that were
about the size of a washingmachine and didn't barely store
anything Right, right.
And of course, now you put iton something that you can easily
lose in your pocket, and it hasfour terabytes on it.
So the evolution of technology,to me, has always captured my

(39:19):
attention and I just couldn'tsee that opportunity slip away
without me getting involved intoit.

Yeah, very early in this conversation we talked
about people at some pointoutgrow enterprise work and I
think that has a lot to do withagency.
The nature of the structure ofbig corporations has to be very
rigid and you might question thehas to, but I think when you've

(39:49):
got thousands of people working, it behooves thousands of
people to be very clear on whodoes what and how and for there
to be consistency, becauseyou're moving people all over
the world to serve customers inremarkably similar ways.
But that removes agency and Ithink that the push and the
growth that we're seeing in ourgeneration coming into

(40:12):
entrepreneurship is because wehave the tools meaning the
experience, is because we havethe tools meaning the experience
and we desperately crave theagency to make our own choices
about where the future goes.

Jim Recker (40:24):
I would agree.
But I'm also going to say atthe same time is that I always
have this passion for learning.
People tell this about me.
They said you always like tolearn and you're always learning
the next new thing.
And I said yes.
And they said what are yougoing to learn about when you
create in veneer?
And I thought about.
I said well, okay, I have myown consultancy.
I've had some small teams workfor me.

(40:45):
I know I can manage people well, so the leadership I think I
have under my belt I'm gonnalose.
Learn some new technology.
One of the things that has hasme fascinated, believe it or not
, and it's probably the thingsthat has me fascinated, believe
it or not, and it's probably thearea that I'm looking forward
to in the next several months isI've never raised money before.

Oh, and you're looking forward to that.

Jim Recker (41:05):
Oh yes.

Oh my God, I think it's the hardest thing
I've ever done.

Jim Recker (41:09):
It is and.

I've done like I've opened countries.
I opened China 20 years ago.
But yeah, fundraising is sointimidating to me and I'm put
in that position so I shouldn'tact like I can't do it, but oh
my goodness, I'm intimidated.

Jim Recker (41:21):
Tonya.
The last six months have beenso eye-opening.
I've had so much fun.
I can see exactly the path.

I know you're having fun, love this and it's
creating that relationship.

Jim Recker (41:30):
I know I'm going to find those advisors, but I'm
having so much fun and where Iwas three months ago and where I
am now, oh my goodness.
And now I know I'm gettingclose because now on LinkedIn, I
have people who invest, who areapproaching me.
I no longer have to say how amI going to talk to that guy?
I actually ran into an investorthe other day who actually gave

(41:51):
me a.
Anyway, let's put it this way,I'm beginning to figure out what
the game is.
It's because this is a gamewhat the game is all about, and
I know that I can succeed inthis and I can't wait to get to
the next stage.

You're still early.

Jim Recker (42:07):
Yep.

And that's a compliment.
But you had an interesting posta few weeks ago on LinkedIn
that essentially said that youshould create a manifesto before
you even began.
It was almost like we used toIn the past we talked about
business plans.

Jim Recker (42:25):
Yes.

But you were suggesting, as I recall, that we
should, and I think you hadsomeone else's work that you
were sharing out and saying Iagree with this.
So have you created a manifestofor Inveneer?

Jim Recker (42:39):
I am You're in the process.

Good, I have Okay .

Jim Recker (42:42):
I have put together a manifesto and it actually is
so long that I'm going to needto narrow it down.
I've made my co-founders readit.
They don't like.
They didn't like reading it,that's okay.
And then I had to redo it againfor the engineering team to
help them understand the linkagebetween all the different
agents and what the flow was,and so I spent all day yesterday

(43:05):
putting together a huge,monstrous flow and, by the way,
there's tools out nowadays whereyou can actually write
something down and then it willturn it into a flow for you.

Oh Scribe yeah.

Jim Recker (43:16):
Well, there's Scribe and there's a couple other
tools out there and it makes mylife so much more easier, but it
doesn't.

It does serve us and make our lives easier,
because I think you and I bothappreciate I was meeting with a
founder yesterday from Oaklandand I don't want to be all about
the pitch decks, but I said,creating that pitch deck,
committing your thoughts towords on paper that other people
need to see and consume, issuch an exercise for you, not

(43:44):
just for investors, but for youand I'm going to say the same
for you, Jim, with a manifesto.
Committing your thoughts intothe world via print of some form
makes you get sharper andclearer on what you're committed
to.

Jim Recker (44:01):
I'm giggling here because I went one step further.
I created a video.

Oh, my goodness Okay.

Jim Recker (44:09):
Because AI tools are out there.
Yes, so I have my pitch deck.
Well, gosh, who wants to watcha boring pitch deck?
I'm just going to do the video.

so yeah, I have different versions of videos
already prepared we'll talkafter, because I, because I am
wanting to go down the rabbithole on that and I think that's
wonderful, but that for ouraudience, that shows you where
we're going.
Correct, because you're not thefirst one to do that oh no but
you're a rare one to do that.
People are just coming aroundto the idea.

Jim Recker (44:41):
Is there a standard pitch deck out there?
We won't mention the name, butyes, it's a cool eight-pager.

It's perfect.
That's the template model.

Jim Recker (44:48):
I did everything possible to get away from that.

Yeah.

Jim Recker (44:52):
And I'm able to do that now because the way let's
put it this way investment haschanged dramatically over the
last several years.

Oh, and it's going to change much more
dramatically in the next two tothree.

Jim Recker (45:03):
And I'm part.
I feel like I'm on that bunkingbronco and I'm just enjoying
every moment of it.

Yeah, I love your attitude and I want to make
note of it, because you'reseeing this all as growth and
opportunity and fun, and itneeds to be fun oh, I wouldn't
do this was it wasn't fun, rightyeah?
Right and learning and growthcan be fun.
I will go back to you.

(45:28):
Learn to manage failurethroughout your career.
Correct and so you're notdaunted by the nose, you're not
daunted by the no's, you're notdaunted by the.
It's not time yet.
Statements from investors, frompotential betas.

Jim Recker (45:43):
Well, and that was an important skill for you to
have.
The great anthropologist TaylorSwift actually says this.

What does she say ?

Jim Recker (45:50):
She says kids should learn to fail.
Failure is good.
There's a professor over atStanford that has a post about
this.
I just thought it was sobrilliant that all the success
that Taylor Swift was seeing,there was a lot of failure
before that and yes you shouldaccept failure.
It's part of the learningprocess.

Yes, you should.
A lot of people would say shehas no business saying that
because she's so beyond wildlysuccessful.
But I remember her when she waslike eight years old, yodeling
for a Yahoo commercial on TV.
That was one of her firstpublic global big things.

Jim Recker (46:29):
She learned from her mistakes.

And she's learned from her mistakes in her
personal life, her relationships, her legend.
In her personal life, herrelationships, her legend, and
then how she's run her businessand been a multi-billion dollar,
billion dollar contributor toeconomies.
She's amazing.
I'm gonna admit here live onthe intrawebs.
I am a big fan of Taylor Swift.

(46:52):
Couldn't name five songs ofhers, but I'm a big fan of what
she does and what she stands for.
And she grew up about 40minutes north of where I lived,
in tennessee she's so I thinkshe's pretty remarkable.
But speaking of remarkable, aswe come into the last 10 minutes

(47:12):
or so of the show, one of thethings that I have fun doing in
this show lately is running aseries of lightning round
questions.

Jim Recker (47:21):
Okay.

So I think we know enough about you and what
you're doing that your wit andwisdoms in a few of these
questions would be fun to talkabout.
So one of the things that wedidn't really touch on but I
think is our shared common sense.
Wisdom is that you need toexperiment when you're going to

(47:46):
be building something new,correct and for lots of people
they're already in jobs.
So the lightning round questionis what's the best way to test
your entrepreneurial ideas whileyou're still embedded in the
workplace?

Jim Recker (48:03):
great question.
Historically, I always try tothink out of the box.
Number one yeah, I would neverask for permission yeah, that's
good advice.
I'll Be careful what you decideto do so you don't get fired.
My biggest weakness is I havetrouble saying no.

Yeah, oh, I hear you.

Jim Recker (48:27):
But if you don't, if you are one of those people,
you can experiment and gathertriad entrepreneurial type
approaches to problems that youencounter.

Okay, so be of an entrepreneurial mindset from
within your structured roles.

Jim Recker (48:46):
Correct.
What really helps is to have agood manager.
Yeah, yeah.
And I've had some good ones,and I've had some bad ones, yeah
, and you've been the good one,right I?

feel certain you've been the good one for a
while.

Jim Recker (48:57):
Oh yes, oh yes, yeah , oh yes.

Good, okay.
So what are the signals thatit's time to move on versus
staying put?

Jim Recker (49:06):
Ah, for me that's simple.
I'm not having fun anymore.
Yeah, that's really all itcomes down to.
If I'm not having fun, why am Idoing this?
I did leave one job becausethey moved I can talk about it,
because Blue Jeans is no longeraround as a company, but they
were on 2nd Street in SanFrancisco and then they moved to

(49:26):
the financial district.
I'm going, I'm not going to goanother half hour one way, and
so I left because of thatinconvenience.
But when you're not having fun,it's time to move on.

Yeah, fair.
So what's one thing that youwould highlight that's been a
surprise for you about startuplife, the life of an
entrepreneur.
What has surprised you?

Jim Recker (49:49):
I was thinking about that the last couple of days.
I think that my biggestsurprise is that I've been able
to convince my co-founders tojoin me on this adventure and
I'm not paying them.
Words can be magical and youcan use words to convey your
dreams and aspirations, yourvision and your expectations and

(50:16):
, if you do it right, you canget people to do that.
Now I've had a founder drop offand that's okay.

That's alignment.
That's figuring out alignmentno he just didn't have.

Jim Recker (50:27):
he was risk averse and he had some challenges with
another startup he was with.
That put him into a veryprecarious financial situation.
So I said, great, we figuredthis out ahead of time, let's
move on.
And in fact he's still a greatfriend of mine.
I'm going to go visit him overthe summer, but that has been
the biggest surprise that myco-founders have stuck with me
this far and it's just been.

(50:48):
It just fills me withinspiration every time I wake up
.
One of them actually has sixkids, and so I'm not sure how he
does it.

Six children.
I don't know how he functionswith six children.
That's just my baggage.

Jim Recker (51:02):
And he's in a different time zone like 10
hours away.
But yet there he is every day.
So that's what has surprised methe most.
I think the next surprise willcome when I actually see an
investor give me some money.
That'll be my next surprise.

And it will be what triggered them to choose
you Correct.
That will be, I think,eye-opening Precisely what's the
biggest mistake that you seeentrepreneurs making as it
relates to AI.

Jim Recker (51:34):
I see some entrepreneurs how best to put
this?
They refuse to do the thingsthat are below them.

Oh interesting, I didn't expect that.

Jim Recker (51:47):
And so I have seen a lot of entrepreneurs that say,
no, I'm not going to be the SDRfor the day, that's beneath me,
okay, and that is actually thebest opportunity for them to
understand what customers aresaying and what rejection looks
like.
I see some entrepreneurs oh,and then the other mistake I see
entrepreneurs do procrastinatebecause they have been funded

(52:09):
yes and they stay in stealth waytoo long yes and they
procrastinate.
Yeah, it's like get to market.
What are you waiting around for?
This whole idea in the SiliconValley, by the way of NDAs also
amuses me.
I know some people have been inthe valley for a really long
time and they just scoff at NDAs.
It's like they're gonna stealyour idea.

(52:29):
They're gonna steal it.
Just get on with it.
Getting to market as fast asyou can is the most important
thing you can do.

I don't think we captured this in our
conversation as well as we couldhave, but we have to prioritize
what we can do inside of this59 minutes.
But you're a marketer at heart.
You're a sales guy, but you'realso very much a marketer.
What do you see happening thatyou declare dead in traditional
marketing, that people are justnot letting go of?

Jim Recker (52:58):
Newspaper ads, anything prints.
They should have let go a longtime ago.
There's also some interestingthings that there are people
that market that don't realizethat they're capturing as many
people as they could becausethey're assuming people are
there.
And I'm an older generation.
Am I watching TikTok?
Am I watching Instagram?
Am I watching the new ways ofmarketing?

(53:19):
No, I'm not.
And then there's some thingsthat I still laugh at because it
still works.
That little airplane with thelong banner flying by the beach.
That still works.

Okay, I'm operationally going through the
efficiency challenges of thatmodel.
It's not very costly, it's notvery costly to fly a little.

Jim Recker (53:41):
I actually have a pilot's license and flying a 172
is probably $150 an hour andyou can make money off that.
And it's a summer day andyou're flying over the ocean
what?

could be wrong with that.
There's all kinds of scores andwins in that, exactly.
Okay, I'm going to think aboutthat.
I can't tell if you're anintrovert or an extrovert.

Jim Recker (54:02):
I'm both.
It depends on the social setting.
I'm both.
It depends on the socialsetting.
I sometimes feel that I'mcertainly not a very loud
extrovert.
When I am an extrovert I don'tgo running around, but I do have
people who tell me from time totime.
I had one investor actuallysays I want to invest in you
down the road.
I said why is that?
He says because you're likethat samurai wielding your

(54:24):
samurai sword and you're goingthrough the jungle and you're
not letting anybody stop you.
I say yeah, that's me, but atother times I'll hesitate to go
up to people.

So what's your best networking advice for
introverts in tech?

Jim Recker (54:42):
Don't hesitate to speak up.
You're not going to hurtanybody's feelings, and I think
that's what I've realized aboutmyself is that it's better to
speak up and get shut down thanto not have spoken up at all.

Yeah, yeah.
If you don't ask, you don't getCorrect.

Jim Recker (54:57):
But sometimes I still hesitate.
Yeah, I do sometimes getstarstruck.
It doesn't happen very often,yeah.

I remember when you met me.
I do sometimes get starstruck.

Jim Recker (55:03):
It doesn't happen very often.
I remember when you met me.
I'm kidding.

I'm completely kidding.
We have a mutual friend that Irecall was part of our initial
introductions.

Jim Recker (55:13):
Yes.

At a pretty large event, I'm thinking about a
mile from here.
So last question what's thebest career advice you wish
someone had given you at 30?

Jim Recker (55:30):
At 30?
How much time do I have here?
I would say the best advice Igot when I was 30.

That you wish someone had given you.

Jim Recker (55:36):
Oh, you wish someone had given me at 30 is get out
of Enterprise, because I stillwas with Enterprises.
Actually, no, yes, I was stillwith enterprises.
Actually, no, yes, I was stillwith enterprises and I did on my
own accord.
I also wish that somebody hadtold me to invest better being
here in the Silicon Valley.
And that's something I regret.
I fortunately bought a house 30years ago.

Yeah, that's a good investment and it's all
paid off.

Jim Recker (56:01):
I wish I had continued to invest, yeah,
because opportunity is allaround you and investing is a
lot of fun, and hopefullysomeone will find that out when
they invest with me.

Excellent, excellent segue into how can
people be aware of you, how canthey watch what you build and
grow and be in touch with you ifthey're interested.

Jim Recker (56:23):
So, to start with, linkedin is going to be a place
to find me Beautiful, and I'mgoing to be posting more
regularly now because I'mgetting out there, so to speak,
and making sure people know whatwe're up to.

For people who are listening.
Your LinkedIn handle is it's JCRecker.
Okay, so it's JC Yep Good, andI will put that in the show
notes for everyone who'slistening, who wants to reflect
back on something written.
So we'll put that connectionpoint so they can follow you,
track your ideas and yourdevelopment successes and then

(56:53):
invest.

Jim Recker (56:53):
And I should also say that the website is
invenirai.
And what does invenir mean?
It means to find, to discover.
In old Spanish, oh, that'sbeautiful.
And that's what I'm doing, andthat's a memorable story.

I love it, so Inveneerai JC Wrecker on
LinkedIn.
Please keep up with this man.
He's going to do some important, wise, wonderful things, as he
RESET not just himself butentire industries with how they
approach solving complexproblems more simply, more

(57:29):
effectively, so we can put morein the market faster, with
happier employees doing it.
So I think it's going to bebrilliant to watch you.
Thank you for being part of theshow today.

Jim Recker (57:38):
Thanks for having me Tonya.

We do this so give me some love here on our
screen as we thank our audiencefor being with us and being part
of this journey.
So many people are goingthrough transitions and RESET
now, and what I really took awayfrom today was to not fear it,
to jump into it, to embrace it.
Look for the fun.
If you're not having fun,you're in the wrong place.

(58:00):
That's correct, and you cantransition and pivot as much as
you want to find that sweet spot.
That is where you should be and, Jim, I think you're doing that
.

Jim Recker (58:08):
And I had fun today.
Thank you for having me.

It was such a pleasure.
Thank you so much.

Jim Recker (58:12):
Pleasure's all mine Everyone.

This has been RESET with Tonya on KPCR 92.9 FM
, k215ga 90.9 FM, both in LosGatos, and KMRT 101.9 FM in
Santa Cruz.
Let's go to the beach.
Everyone.
Have a great day.
Thanks for joining us on RESET.

(58:38):
Remember, transformation is ajourney, not a destination.
So until next time, keepexploring what's possible.
I'm Tonya Long and this is home.
This is RESET.

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Tonya J. Long

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