Self-Taught, AI-Tuned: How Jesse Anglen Enabled 500 Startups and One AI Future

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tonya J. Long (00:04):
Welcome, Jesse and everyone else.
Welcome to RESET with Tonyahere on a remote edition from
San Jose, California, all theway out to the yonder far in
Idaho.
I am here to introduce you guysto someone that I think is just
absolutely remarkable.
Those of you who know me or whohave become part of this

(00:24):
audience know that I have abackground in tech and a deep
affinity for tech.
The podcast is abouttransitions, RESET and us
changing how our lives work, inwork in technology and in
purpose and in longevity.
Jesse represents all of these,so I'm just enamored with him.
He's definitely a tech bro.

(00:45):
Well, it's not fair to call hima tech bro because that means a
lot of things in differentplaces.
But he's deeply technical buthe's also deeply human.
He's broadcasting from a farmY'all know I'm from Tennessee,
y'all and he's talked to meabout his piglets in the
wintertime and his kidsdeveloping a bread-baking
business, and he's talked to meabout his piglets in the
wintertime and his kidsdeveloping a bread baking

(01:05):
business.
So he is so real and not justabout the technology, and I
can't wait to highlight him andwhat he's doing.
That also has ties to mybeloved India, so at least in
namesake and in development.
So, Anglin, welcome.
I'm so happy to have you heretoday.

Jesse Anglen (01:23):
Thank you very much for having me on.
I've been looking forward tothis.
You're very fun to talk to.

Yeah, and that's a huge compliment.
If that's what I bring theworld, then I'm happy, so
wonderful, to be here.
Well, tell us about you, tellus about what your priorities
are, apparently, because we'regoing to go back and dig up some
things, including what we justtalked about before the episode
started.
So what are you working on?

Yeah, so I'll give you the.
Let me give you the 45 secondsimple version of Jesse.
And I'm not a super complexperson.
I have simple motivations,maybe big aspirations, but they
are, but they're simple even ifthey're big.
But I've been an entrepreneurforever.
I graduated high school veryyoung.
I was 14 and I got my first job, realized I didn't like working

(02:13):
for people pretty quicklyMostly out of arrogance, I think
Probably all the parts andpieces of what makes an
entrepreneur.
I thought I was better thaneveryone else, especially when I
was 14, of what makes anentrepreneur.
I thought I was better thaneveryone else especially when I
was 14, 18 years old, yeah, andso I started my first business
when I was 17 in theconstruction industry, because
that was what my dad did, andthen really just worked at

(02:40):
starting different businesses,eventually got out of
construction because it was toobottleneck.
The thought of creating like aglobal construction company
sounded miserable, and so I gotinto real estate because I
thought you know what I thinkI'll?
I think I'll use my brain and Ithink I'll be a salesperson.
And so I did that.
For I did that for a while andactually met a guy who got me

(03:01):
into the tech industry veryheavily.
Like I had experimented andeven in real estate, built a
couple of technical platformsand worked with a few technical
teams, but this guy actuallyencouraged me to learn to write
code.
Because what?
So?
The whole this is going to belonger than 45 seconds, I'm
realizing that's all right, wegot all the time in the world.
Right, we can take whatever timeyou want Is this like Joe Rogan

(03:23):
, where we can go for six hours.

Oh well, maybe get some more tea if we do that.

Well, I won't bore people with six hours, that
would be.
I don't know that I've got sixhours of things to talk about.
But this kid and he was a kid,he was 17 when I met him.
He started buying real estateat 18, when he could legally buy
real estate and had boughtabout $2.5 million worth of cash
flowing real estate and reallysmart guy, probably the smartest

(03:52):
human being I've ever known inreal life and 2010,.
He called me up and said hey,jesse, I want to sell all my
real estate because I found ascam on a forum online called
Bitcoin.

He said he found a scam.
I thought it was a scam.
He said I found this scam on aforum online called Bitcoin.

I thought it was a scam.
He said I found this amazingtechnology that's going to
fundamentally change the worldand I want to sell all of my
real estate.
Which realize he's 19.
Now he's got $2.5 million worthof cash-flowing real estate,
right.
Someone else is buying him realestate Amazing and he tells me
he wants to sell it all for the$250,000 worth of equity he's

(04:28):
going to have when he's done.
And he wants to buy this scamthat he found online called
Bitcoin.

And.

I thought, man, this is the dumbest thing I've
ever heard anyone say.
So I sat down with him at acoffee shop, tried to talk him
out of it.
He was really convinced thatBitcoin was going to turn into
something big.
I was really convinced that hewas an idiot.
But I couldn't convince him,and so he sold all of his real
estate.
He sold his personal house thathe was living in, he sold his
car and just started ridingaround on a bike.

(04:57):
He sold everything he owned.
He bought a shed at a hardwarestore, stuck it on its parents'
property, hooked it up with anextension cord, went to the
bathroom in a five-gallon bucketand ate ramen noodles so that
he could buy more Bitcoin.
And I thought, man, this guy'sgone nuts, he's lost his mind.
Over the course of the nextcouple of years, as Bitcoin went
from a couple bucks to 10 bucks, I was like, oh my gosh, he has

(05:21):
made bank because he bought alot of it.
Yeah, and he kept telling me,no, it's going to go higher.
I think it's going to go.
It'll go to $100,000.
I'm like, dude, you have noidea what you're talking about.
So I continued to tell him tosell it.

Yeah, yeah, so it was 2010.

So I think he bought his first Bitcoin.
He was buying his first Bitcoinunder a dollar and that big
purchase he made towards the endof 2010, 2011,.
He was buying stuff around acouple of Bitcoin, around a
couple of bucks, and what'sBitcoin trading at now?
Oh, it's over $100,000.

(05:59):
$109,000 as of yesterday, I'mlooking at Yahoo Finance A
dollar for $109,000.
No-transcript.

(06:25):
And then I want you to workwith my team and we're going to
work on this new platform thatis coming out called Ethereum,
and we're going to startbuilding smart contracts for
people.
And I said, dude, you have torealize like I have very little
programming experience.
He's like oh no, jesse,programming is easy.
You can go on YouTube, you'lllearn in three months.
And I didn't do enough researchto realize that's not generally

(06:48):
how people learn how to becomeprogrammers.
And so I thought he was tellingme the truth.
So I went on YouTube and Ilearned how to program in three
months.

What occurs to me is you didn't have limits
because you didn't do theresearch.
And you didn't know that youcouldn't do it, and you just
thought about figuring it out.

Yeah, I remember yeah, I can even remember the
first like 11 video series thatI went through.
I'm like man, this seems likeit's actually more complex than
he's making it out to be, but Iwent and I sold my company that
I had at the time and joined him, learned to program enough to
manage and hire developers.
The advantage that I did haveis that there was no school at

(07:30):
that point.
Solidity as a language hadn'teven been invented yet, because
Gavin was still working oncreating the syntax and you
could learn JavaScript and thenyou could do it because it was
all JavaScript based.
So, yeah, learned to programenough to be able to see what
people were doing and then hired30 developers, taught them
Solidity and we deployed ourfirst application to the

(07:57):
Ethereum mainnet when itlaunched in 2015, which was a
real estate application thatwent viral because we actually
took his house, which he hadbought because he had sold off
some of his Bitcoin, bought thisreally nice house on the lake
in Northern Idaho and we tookthat house and we basically
stuck the ownership of that homeon the blockchain and then

(08:19):
posted about it on Reddit and itwent viral, and so I played
around in that world for a longtime with him.
Eventually, in oh, maybe 2018,we'll call it Zach and I decided
to part ways.
He had some stuff that hewanted to focus on and I had
stuff that I wanted to focus on.
It was a natural, a naturalparting.

(08:39):
And so I created a companycalled Rapid Innovation, which
is a company that I own today,and there was a massive gap in
the marketplace for emergingtech.
If you wanted to go andoutsource the creation of any
sort of blockchain development,it was very difficult, because
there was a lot of developmentcompanies that would tell you

(09:03):
that they knew what they weredoing, but they had no idea what
they were doing, and so, unlessyou went out and hired your own
personal team of people, it wasvery hard to do.
So we became the largestblockchain development company
that you could outsource work toreally globally in, I would say
, 2019.
And did that for a long time andthen eventually started adding

(09:23):
in all of the other emergingtech, and blockchain was a part
of it, ai was a part of it, iotwas a part of it, ar and VR was
a part of it, and we wanted tobe the development company that
could help people with, insteadof with, their legacy tech needs
, which there are 10,000development companies that did

(09:44):
that.
We wanted to help people withall the tech that you couldn't
hire someone to help you with,and you could hire us.
We'd build you your startup oryour MVP, and then you could go
launch it to the world and seewhat happened.
And so because of that, andbecause I had done a lot of that
working with Zach, I juststarted working with tons and
tons of startups and foundersthat were building out
technology.

(10:04):
Zach, I just started workingwith tons and tons of startups
and founders that were buildingout technology.
I think I recently crossed the500 startups launched Milestone.

Love it.

This year actually , and not my own, of course,
just working with other people.
Yeah, had tons and tons of fun,and then at some point we'll
call it in probably 2020, Istarted having an affair with AI
.

My love up to that point had been blockchain.
It is a compulsion when you getstarted.

Yeah, and very specifically around one niche in
AI.
I had a guy that was workingfor me, that was part of my
onboarding team, and so he wouldtake a client that had a
requirement and figure out whatthat requirement was and bring
them on board, put together thetechnical requirement documents,
the user stories.
A lot of work goes into pullingan idea out of someone's head

(10:54):
and making it tangible enoughthat a developer can actually
sit down and build it like itwas in their head.
And that was my discovery teamand he was a part of it, and it
took us somewhere between fourand six weeks to do a discovery
for a new client, depending onthe project.
Sometimes longer, sometimesshorter.
I noticed with this one guythat he was working a lot less

(11:16):
than everyone else.
He was doing a better job thaneveryone else and you
appreciated that.
Yeah, it was funny when I calledhim up and said, dude, what's
going on?
He thought he was getting firedRight, which I think is
interesting because, that wasthe mentality back then was that
if you used AI and yououtsourced your labor to a
machine, then you'd be fired.

Right Now, in this case he was using.

Yeah, he was using a version, a large.
He was using ChatGPT 3 which Ibelieve it had a 7000 token
context window.
I mean it was a terrible model.
If you want to know, like, justgo play around with it and talk
to it.
You'd be surprised at howstupid it is right.

But he had architected this.

Yes.

Right, he's doing more with a bad model compared
to what we have today.

Oh man.

And still outworking his peers like 5X.

Oh, he had taken a process and what I found out
later was that he actuallywasn't even.
He was barely working at all.
If he worked eight hours a day,he could do a discovery in four
days, right.
So he took a six-week processand he turned it into a four-day
process.
But he didn't want to do thatbecause he was afraid he'd get
noticed and then he would getfired, which is funny right,

(12:30):
like someone will notice thatyou're not working and you'll
get fired.
So, instead of doing that, himand I started working together
on building these systems to dowork.
Now, the term agentic systemdidn't exist.
The term digital labor didn'texist.
There wasn't even really a wayto think about what these
systems were or how they work.
What I knew was that you couldaugment somebody's skills,

(12:54):
whatever they were, with AI andmake them significantly more
effective and efficient and evenimprove the quality of the work
that they were doing.
Improve the quality of the workthat they were doing.
And that was the moment for methat the light turned on and I
went this is what the future oflabor is going to be.
It will not be people doingthings.
People are going to beproviding input and they're
going to be providing thecuration of creation, and so I

(13:19):
fell in love with it.
Now, I had lots of really bigideas and cool things I wanted
to do, and the technology justwas not there.
For years and years, I would goto my CTO and say, hey, I want
to build this thing, and he'sJesse, you can't build that.
And we tried a few times tobuild things that you couldn't
build and then, eventually, thetech would catch up with it, and
then we would build thesedifferent agentic systems and we
would add them into our companyand we started doing that for

(13:42):
clients as well, and then rapidinnovation really morphed from
just because of my interests, Ithink from a blockchain
development company and a smartcontract development company
into a digital labor developmentcompany which is
what we do today is help peoplebuild out digital labor systems,
build out digital labor systemswhich, even if there were no

(14:06):
clients or customers, I wouldfigure out a way to just do it
on my own, because I'm toofascinated by this future where
human beings are no longer thecreators of value, we're just
the curators of value, and we'reno longer the input output
processors, we're just the inputoutput provider.
Right, so we provide inputs,the machine provides the output
that is valuable, and then wecan then provide that to the

(14:28):
world, which should, in theory,bring down the cost of all value
creation, which means that theidea of scarcity when it comes
to how humans live lives, thingsshould become less and less
scarce.
Right, abundance should be abigger and more impactful, more
important part of everyone'slives, and so I'm very

(14:48):
passionate about digital laborand about agentic systems and
how to make the world a betterplace through all those things.
So that's my 45-second intro.

Jeez, where do we start?
We could unpack that for sixhours.

Yeah, there might be something there.

There might be something there we should.
Yeah, we'll develop a series ofJesse, all the different
transitions and RESET and thehorizons that you see, because
you are, you're a witness to thefuture, right, right, where I,
where I get stuck here in my,here in my Bay Area bubble, is

(15:27):
we're so we're too busy talkingconcepts, and when I talk with
you, you're building it, you'redoing it.
You're not caught up in thewhirl of how to speak about it,
you're caught up in the bubbleof how to make it work.
Right, so you pretty much saidsayonara to the traditional
schooling methods.

(15:48):
I don't think you went tocollege because you said,
because I'm assuming, becauseyou said sayonara you never
needed it.

I'm busy making money to go to college and they
wanted me to pay them to dostuff I could figure out online
it was so weird.

What's remarkable to me is that you are a
tremendous technical mind butyou are self-taught, and of
course, I relate that to all thepeople out there who are so
intimidated about AI.
I interviewed a bright, smartwoman my age last week.
She'd never used ChatGPT and Ijust my mind was, and she lives

(16:23):
here in the Bay Area.
My mind was blown.
She's in the music industry andreally really smart, but just
had not been interested.
And I think people are reallyintimidated, including CEOs of
companies that are, you know,large-scale companies, and
they're just intimidated by whatthey don't know.
And I know it's different at 14.

(16:43):
You don't have an ego toovercome on not knowing how to
do things, but what's yourguidance?

It was nice to live my whole life that way,
though, because I never had oneof the things that's really
interesting with all of myfriends that, if you think about
it, I'm a high school dropout.
I did go through and get all mytesting done and I could have
gone to college.
Like I said, I was too busymaking money and starting
businesses to go do it, and Ithought maybe I'll go to college
once I retire from my firststartup.

Just so that I can get it through my system.

But I have since discovered that you can get a
PhD the equivalent to a PhD inalmost any subject you're
interested in, and this waspre-LLM, pre-ChatGPT.
You could get it just going onYouTube and watching people talk
about things, because experts,for some stupid reason, decide
to hop on YouTube and dedicatetheir life to teaching people

(17:37):
what they know, and so if youwant to know those things, you
can hop on YouTube and learnthem.
And I never really knewanything else, right, because I
was self-taught all through highschool and I just continued.
I figured that's how lifeworked.
If you want to know something,you go learn it, cause that's
what my mom told me.

So I did.

I even get intimidated by some stuff, Like
the other day I was going anddoing something completely new,
right, I'd never.
I had never done it before andit was stupid.
It was going and doing someadministrative stuff in my
Google console for for mycompany.
And and I just never done it,and I got that feeling right.
Oh man, this is veryoverwhelming and it's very

(18:16):
intimidating.
But here's the thing is onceyou realize that you have a
tutor at your hands, like justyou've got a tutor that is right
there and can help you, withanything.
It takes the pressure off right,Because anytime you go and
learn something new, it's easierto learn it with someone who's
done it right, Like.
One of the things that humansdo very intuitively is, if they

(18:39):
I don't know if your car breaksdown, you don't generally go out
there and tear the car apartand try to figure out what it is
that's broken, right, you callsomebody whether it be a friend
or a mechanic or someone who canhelp you understand what's
wrong, even if you want to fixit yourself right and then
someone will come over andthey'll be like oh, it's the
starter's out and that's thestarter, and this is where I buy

(19:01):
my stuff online and you learnright on what it looks like to
do this thing.
That might seem reallyintimidating or difficult.
Chat GPT, like any of theselarge language models, provide
that for you on any subject,anywhere, about anything that
you want to learn.

Yeah.

And so one of the things that I tell people is the
first mental block you have toget over is you don't like Chat.
Gpt will teach you how to useitself If you just hop on and
say hey, this is what I do for aliving, this is what my key
responsibilities are, these aremy daily tasks, and I'm

(19:38):
wondering how I could use an LLMto be more efficient.
Can you help explore that withme?
It will teach you.
You don't have to come call mebecause of an expert or anybody
else.
It's the expert and it'll justbring you through that process
of doing it.
The first thing you just allyou have to do is be good at
asking questions.

And I think it's a mindset shift to learn to
treat AI as a collaborator, tohave those conversations.
It doesn't require code anymoreto get our technology to do
things for us, now that it'sconversational with generative
AI.
I will tell, I'll tell a story.

(20:19):
You made me think of it.
It's been a long time Earlychat, gpt days.
You know, I have an Airstreamand I couldn't get the umbilical
to work.
The umbilical is the plug thatconnects the Airstream to the
car for towing so that itcontrols, like the braking
system on the Airstream, brakelights, those things.
And it was and it wasn'tconnecting.

(20:39):
You know, I was inserting itinto the car but it wasn't
connecting and everybody I knewwas on their way to this
Airstream rally and I was likewhat do I do?
What do I do?
And I'm laying up under the backof my SUV and I pull my phone
out and I ask ChatGPT what to doabout my power, basically my
power cable between my SUV andmy car Sorry, my SUV and my RV

(21:06):
and ChatGPT gave me four optionsand the second one worked and I
was just smitten because youknow, I think a lot of people
box these tools in, they box itinto whatever their mindset is
and it tends to be moretransactional, technical, and
mine was, you know, very likeearthy, mechanical, and it gave

(21:26):
me the answer and I that wasearly days and I was like, oh my
god, I do have this tutor in mypocket and for me, better than
YouTube.
I couldn't watch eight YouTubevideos laying up under the back
of my car trying to plug this in.
I needed, I needed like atext-based answer.
You know, give me the responseand I just think it's changing

(21:47):
the relationship.

Knowing that that tutor, collaborator is in your
pocket is an amazing thing.
Yeah, no, like 100%, yeah 100%.

So I want to ask you something kind of off the
beaten path though, because youand we're going to get into it.
You are very human-oriented.
You very much value.
You're not just about replacingpeople with AI, you're about
augmenting their lives.

Here's the thing about that subject that I think
is interesting.
Okay, as someone who's managedlots and lots of employees in my
life, they are the bane of myexistence to some extent.

I understand.

People cause all the problems right.
Very rarely do you find aproblem and there isn't some
person smacked out in the middleof that problem that you're
dealing with.
But at the same time that istrue, it is also true that
people provide almost all of themotivation for others.
Provide almost all of themotivation for others.
There are very few people whoare so self-motivated that they

(22:48):
can just plug away at somethingfor a decade without any input
right.
They provide accountability,they provide encouragement, they
provide a shoulder to cry onwhen things suck, generally
because of other people, and Iwouldn't want to do any of the
things that I've done in my lifewithout a team of really
awesome people around me to helpme do it, even if those people
only provided encouragement,accountability, criticism,

(23:12):
critique those kinds of things.
Right Collaboration, new ideas,different perspectives those
are the parts of humanity thatactually I find LLMs lack.
They can't really encourage youNot really, because you always
wonder is it just telling mewhat it thinks?
I want to hear there was thatmoment a while back with.

(23:32):
ChatGPT, where everyone realizedit has become sycophantic.
Right, you could say, hey, Iwant to create this awesome, I
want to create this sandwichshop and we're going to go and
collect dog poop from the dogparks and then we're going to
put it on sandwiches and it's ohman, that's a great idea, jesse
, and you're like yeah, you nolonger are actually intelligent
enough to know whether or notsomething is an idea or not a

(23:54):
good idea, right.
But I can call you up and tellyou that and you'll be like
Jesse, I love your ambition but,it's a terrible idea.

Like don't do it.

Terrible content, yeah, yes, but on the humanity
side, go ahead, and so I want tohave a team of people around me
.
Like I want to have peopleinvolved in this value creation
process that we all callenterprise or business or
whatever it is we call it.
In fact, I would say that Ineed to have people around me,
so I don't want a world in whichwe get rid of all the people
that are creating value.

(24:26):
What I want to do is I want toget rid of all the barriers to
value creation, and so right now, there's so many problems when
it comes from.
If you look at someone's idearight which, I've heard
thousands of ideas now probably.

Yeah, 500 startups.
You've heard more thanthousands probably, yeah, 500
startups.

You've heard more than thousands.
Yeah, yeah, it's thousands ofideas, right?
Lots of those ideas are reallygood.
The reason that most startupsfail aren't because they have
good ideas or bad ideas.
Generally, it's all the problemsthat come up in the execution,
right?
Almost everyone has somethingthat is valuable to somebody,
even if it's a very small nicheof people that it's valuable to.
What I want to do is I want toget rid of the friction in the

(25:10):
value creation process frombeginning to end, so that
somebody can have a good ideathat actually adds value to the
world in some way, and then,digitally, you augment all of
the, all the steps that normallywould shut that business down
and you allow those people toactually create it, whether that
be like a financial roadblockbecause they can't raise, they

(25:31):
can't raise funds, or like it'shard to find developers, or even
just the administrative,organizational side of things,
the business planning side ofthings, the financial planning
side of things, like all ofthese can be agentic systems
that you build inside yourcompany that then remove that
friction and allow you to focuson the value creation, and to me

(25:52):
, that's.
I love that vision of thefuture.

Yeah, and You're building it.
You are building and I can onlyimagine the growth we've seen
in the last three years.
Like you were talking about,Chat GPT3 versus now is just not
even.
It's like an infant versus a50-year-old PhD.
But I want to go back tosomething, though, about

(26:18):
humanity and our behavioraltraits.
For some people we may not stayhere long, but I saw a video,
probably a week ago, that reallymade me pause our behavioral
traits.
For some people we may not stayhere long, but I saw a video,
probably a week ago, that reallymade me pause.
There was a technical man andit was like a six-minute
interview and he had becomepretty addicted I'm holding my
cell phone, it's over here tothe ChatGPT voice system and he

(26:42):
was tearing apart a desktop andtalking, collaborating back and
forth about what to do becausethe fan wasn't kicking on when
it needed to and he was reallyaddicted to talking with the
ChatGPT voice interface.
And then it cut to him and hispartner and he talked about how

(27:02):
much he needed ChatGPT.
And she says to him but don'tyou need me?
And there was this huge painfulpause and they had a two or
three-year-old and so theinterviewer that asks both of
them and says to him if you hadto choose between your voice

(27:27):
interface and the mother of yourchild, your partner, what would
you do?

Oh gosh.

And he said I don't know, and you could just
see the woman trying to maintaincomposure, because but I feel
like that.
You know it might sound absurdto us, you know, but I feel like
more and more people areleaning into digital
communication.
You know, I speak to groups ofolder women and I'm like you

(27:56):
know, your child's going to datean AI, your teenager will date
an AI companion and they're likeno, and you can just see them
panicking.
But you know, ais always tellyou you're pretty.
They never get upset when yougo do things because you've
reprioritized something elseahead of them.
We are all more and morecontroversial.

They're very safe.
Relationally, they'reincredibly safe.
I do think that is If you wantto talk about the dangers of AI.
That's a whole anotherconversation that you probably
have.
I think it's not the dangers of.

AI.
It's the dangers of the humancondition we have to.
Ai didn't do that to anybody,and I think that you're this is
not what you work on, but youare surrounded by the risk and I
think that people like us haveto be talking about.
It's an intentional thing todecide.

(28:48):
You cut your company from 300people to 100 people.
I dare say you could have cutit to a tenth of the hundred and
been tactically able to execute.
You chose.
You chose to keep 100 becauseyou wanted people around you.
You had some great quote thatsaid something like to have a
big company with no people wouldbe an awfully lonely place.

Yeah, that's like the big dream right now is a
unicorn built with a singleperson right, I want to go and
build a unicorn.

It'll happen.

I'm 100% sure it'll happen.
I think that person is going tobe significantly less satisfied
with his end result because hedid it so on his own.
I think that AI, on therelational side of things when
it comes to humanity like AI andhumanity, the question isn't
that different from what?
As far as the effects of it,it's not that different from

(29:40):
what social media did tohumanity.
So I am like you're in thegeneration way before social
media, right?
So you remember calling peopleon the phone and having a
relationship with humans right,like that was your that was the
life that you lived.

I was the hybrid.

The first half of my life was spent in that world.
Second half of my life wasspent in the social media
texting era, and I rememberhanging out with my friends
until dark, when I had to gohome or my mom would be mad and
ride my bike around on thestreets and not having a phone
where anyone could call me.
And if you wanted to have asocial interaction, you went and
made friends and you hung outwith them and all of those

(30:18):
conversations that are happeningdigitally today were happening
in person.
And I think that, as the humanrace is concerned, social media
took something incrediblyvaluable away from us and
actually I'm encouraged.
I've been watching the youngestgeneration, so my kids'
generation.
They're starting to go back toreal human relationships.

(30:39):
They want to hang out with theirfriends, like yeah, analog um,
because I think they see thedamage that the really it's fake
relationships, what?

is what's boiled down to.
Is you've?

removed yourself far enough away from the
relationship that you can youhave.
This just, it's just fake.
When I think what ai does andthere's a specific example that
I use because I think itillustrates the danger for
humanity but before I even getinto that, what AI does is it

(31:14):
allows synthetic relationship.
Right Add it, there was a galwho had been on OnlyFans for a
long time and she made herself adigital twin.

Yep.

And basically you could have a conversation with
it.
It would send you pictures, dothe normal thing.
She made that available andwithin a month and she charged,
I think, $2 a minute orsomething like that, if you want
to use it.
In her first month she madesomething like $30 million.
Yeah, I remember this In herfirst month she made something
like $30 million.
Yeah, I remember this, Becausethere are that many people that

(31:48):
wanted to go and have arelationship with something
completely fake and, the thingis, the majority of the
interactions were relational.

Tell me that I validate my feelings and all the
things that human beings reallyneed.

I think that's like terrifying.
Yeah, I think that's liketerrifying, yeah, because in
that mode where people no longerinteract with each other, I
really don't want to live in aworld that looks like that.

Like I'm not going to.

Even if the world goes that way like it won't be
the world I'm living in and Ithink it will I think for a
generation or two we're going tosee, let's say, three decades.
We're going to watch this ruina lot of people's lives, really
harm people relationally, andthen at some point their kids
will be like this is stupid,just like my kids are saying

(32:33):
that the social media, the last20 years of social media, is
stupid and they'll exit andwe'll find that equilibrium
where it's helpful, but notdomineering and intrusive.

Yeah, we're going to pause for a very quick
station break.
You are listening to KMRT-LP101.9 out of Santa Cruz and KPCR
92.9 LP out of Los Gatos, andthen we've been talking about
the human side, but on thetechnology side, you know, we

(33:06):
still control AI.
We are.
I picked up this book on mydesk because I spent some time
last week with DKai.
This is a really hot book rightnow and he's he's brilliant.
He built a lot of thefoundational language models for
all the bigs I could list themall but all the bigs and he's
amazing.
But he said we still own AI,we're still training AI, we're

(33:31):
the last generation.
He refers to it as parenting,parenting AI and he says AI will
be training AI in the nearfuture, and so I think about the
human dependency and I thinkabout we own, like the interface

(33:59):
to that.

But pretty soon we won't, and I think it proves,
at least to some extent, thatthe biggest blocker right now in
making AI smarter is the humanreinforcement portion of it.
And if you can outsource thatto the AI model itself, you can
remove that bottleneck and AIbecomes faster, smarter.
Yep, yep.
Or smarter, faster if peoplearen't involved in the training,

(34:21):
and so it's already happening.
Mm-hmm in the training, and soit's already happening and once
it fully happens, we're going tosee some really crazy
exponential stuff.

Exponential growth, and we already can't
keep up with the growth that'shappening now.
Hence people being intimidated,hence people avoiding and
ignoring the obvious.
And I can't imagine it when itreally hits its inflection point
, because it hasn't yet.

Yeah, when I forget that people are ignoring
it because I'm up to my eyeballs.
We're involved, we're immersed,every single day, right yeah,
and every once in a while Isurface and I go somewhere to a
party or wherever and I talk topeople and they're like what do
you do for a living?
I tell them what I do andthey're like oh yeah, chat, GPT,

(35:10):
I've heard of that, oh yeah, orI I use that once and I'm like,
oh yeah, that's right.

Oh yeah, there's still a lot of people in the
world who have no idea what'scoming.
Yeah, now you remember, I'mfrom Tennessee, so my life was
not always in the bubble.
Help me and help them, becauseyou know my family at the beauty
shop in Gainesboro.
They listen to this sometimes.
Help them understand what'spossible, because what I love
about you is you're not justtalking about concepts, you're

(35:35):
not talking about what we coulddo.
You are doing it.
So an agentic AI for a lot ofpeople who aren't in our bubble
is probably like huh, yeah.
So Help us understand in likereal world terms what you're,
what you're doing for people sothat they can live better lives

(35:56):
because they're working less orthey're working less on the
mundane things.

So I'm just going to show you my, I'm going to
show you my screen, because thisis OK, running right now.

Oh, this looks interesting.
Now for radio audience.
Talk, talk to what, what you'resharing a little differently.
No, I'm going to make, I'mgoing to.

I'm going to explain this very vividly, if I
can, and so what this is.
So when I start, I've gotanother company that I just
started called Ruh.
ai.

So, r-u-hai, I do want to talk about that, yes.

Yeah, and yeah, we'll get into that at some
point.
But the idea behind that thatthat we'll talk about the idea
behind it later.
I wanted to raise money for it,Right, and so I hate raising
money.
It's probably one of my leastfavorite activities in the world
Same myself.

(36:54):
This big list of activeinvestors in the US with 20,000
people on it, and I startedlooking at it and I wrote a
couple of emails and I called acouple of people, maybe made it
through like maybe two 200people on the list and I went oh
gosh, there's 20,000 peoplehere.
This is going to take forever.
This is going to be miserableand of the calls I made, I'm
doing very right because I'mmore of a plow through it kind
of guy and so if there's a phonenumber, I'll call it and then

(37:16):
they tell me oh no, we don'tinvest in stuff like you.

Oh, we don't do this.
Oh, we don't do that.

And I thought I'm wasting so much time research on
all of the angels and VCs.
Basically, we'll just call itventure capital research to find
out what these people actually,what they actually believe in.
And so I built a system with abunch of different agents, so

(37:43):
one agent, so all of the agentsidentify the person right, so
they go in there's actually anidentity identification
verification agent that goes inand says, okay, here's the
information I have, here's thisperson, and it builds a dossier
of who that person is, so youknow who it is.
Then it passes it to fourdifferent agents.
One is a social media agentresearch agent that looks for
every single thing.

(38:03):
In the last year and a half,that person has ever posted on
social media, commented onsocial media, said everything
right and it grabs all thatinformation Time out for the
people at the beauty shop inGainesboro.

How do you get access to their Instagram and
their Facebook and their MySpaceposts?
In a very simple way and I'masking you to go deep, but some
people don't understand how youcan scrape a year's worth of
social media content.

So here's the thing If a human being can do it
meaning if I can, if I as aperson can help on the internet
and do the research then an AIcan do the research.
You just have to tell it how todo it Right.
And so, in the workflow that we, that I gave her, the process,
that I gave that social mediaresearch agent, I said you know,
if you don't, if you can't getaccess to their LinkedIn and see

(38:52):
all the stuff, just grab whatyou can do, the best you can.
That's what a human would do,right, they're not going to,
they're not going to spend fivedays trying to figure it out.
So that's basically what itdoes is it finds as much
publicly available data as itcan and it has access to
different accounts so it can goand use the computer itself to
go and look up other things thatmaybe a scraping tool wouldn't

(39:15):
have access to.

Okay, Thank you.

Yeah, and oftentimes I'll give them tools
like these particular agents.
They'll use things likeOctoparse would be one, which is
like a scraping tool, orthey'll use Crawl for AI, or
they'll use Perplexity I meansomething as simple as
Perplexity deep research and soits job is to go gather

(39:39):
everything it can on the socialmedia side.
Then there's another one thatlooks for every public
appearance, like every blog.
They've ever posted every pieceof PR, they've ever done every
podcast, they've ever been ingrabs all that information.
And then there's another onethat says, okay, they work for
this company or work for this VCfirm.
So I want to now knoweverything that VC firm has ever

(40:01):
done.
And so it looks at its socialmedia, it does all that stuff.
And once all the research isdone, it's compiled.

You call it a dossier.
I think that's great.
Compiled.
You called it a dossier.
I think that's great yeah.

Yes, and then it's given to a board.
It's a round table of agentsthat look at two things.
So in one pile they have thecompany that they're required to
raise money for, and it sitsover here, and in the other pile
it's all this information aboutthat investor and they argue
with each other from differentperspectives.

(40:32):
So each agent is built to haveits own perspective.
So one from are they going to beinterested in the founding team
.
One of them is going to bearguing are they going to be
interested in the idea?
The other one is are they theright fit for the stage that
we're at?
And so they look at all thedifferent things that VCs are
going to look at and theybasically have this conversation
with each other about whetheror not that particular investor,

(40:54):
based on everything that weresearched, is going to be
interested in this particularidea.
They fight it out for a fewminutes, and then they assign it
a score from one to 10.

And I'm going to stop you for half a second, for
those who aren't tracking withthis.
This isn't a board of people.
This is a board of digitalagents.
This is think about multiplechat GPT instances.
I'm really simplifying it.
It can be any of them, butbasically talking to each other
from their different vantagepoints.

(41:27):
This is all happening in thecloud.

Their different vantage points this is all
happening in the cloud With thememory of what it is that
they're trying to do.

That's an important piece.

And actually I'll talk about this in a little bit
more, because there's afascinating thing about memory
and the intelligence side of it,if I don't forget.
So they have this wholeconversation, and when I say
they, I'm anthropomorphizinglike these LLMs, the group, the
collective, yes.
I make them sound like people,but the truth is they're not and
right now you can actually see.
You can see this happeningright now, like what it's.

(41:59):
It's it that agentic system isworking at the moment on a
particular investor, trying tofigure out whether or not they
are going to be interestedinvesting in.
Ruh.
And so the board finishes, thisboard of agents.
They finish, they score them.
If they get a high enough score, so above an eight, then it
goes to a team of copywritingagents.

(42:21):
And so those copywriting agents, their whole job is to write a
really good email and they worktogether.
So one of them is a subjectline expert and his entire job
is to write a subject line basedon all of the research that
you've done and everything theyknow.
Write a subject line thatperson will click on.
I when it shows up on theirinbox.
I want that person, based onthe psychology of who they are,

(42:43):
the kind of interest they have.
I want you to write a subjectline unique for that one person
that they're going to click onand open.
The next one is going to writea hook, right, I want you to
write, I want you to write threesentences, or two sentences,
that if this person reads it,they will continue to read it.
The next one writes the body,the next one writes the call to
action, right, and so then thatall those different pieces are

(43:05):
written, it's given to.
They then pass that on to acopywriter that takes all of
that.
I mean, there's, they actuallywrite multiples.
So two subject lines, two hookstwo bodies, two, and it's given
to the like a copywriter and thecopywriter takes that
information, the research, allthe discussion that's been had

(43:26):
up to that point and they writethe perfect email and then send
it, and so, like this system.
I built it because I was lazy,right Like I didn't want to have
to do all that stuff.
I understand, it seems so muchwork, like if I did the research
.
It's four hours of research.
Then I have to figure outwhether or not they're going to
be interested after I do all theresearch.

So let's and I still have to read through it
all yeah.

Then I've got to write an email.
I'm going to be sending oneemail a day, you know.
Maybe, maybe two, but I doubt.

It's probably one email a day maybe even one
email every two days if I didthis.
So, by contrast, just forpeople to understand how
remarkable what you justdescribed is, I spent two
thousand dollars a couple ofyears ago running LinkedIn ads.
Linkedin ads are basically astatic canned email letter that

(44:15):
you queue up the LinkedInalgorithm to outreach to.
You know how many ever peopleyou target and they charge you
per hit, but it's static.
You know you write an emailthat goes to the guy in Alaska
and the teenager down inHonduras.
If they hit the filter, theyget the same letter that inserts

(44:37):
their name and their companyname and that's about as far as
it goes.
And if you're on LinkedIn, youreceive those all the time.
You get those canned lettersand I'll tell you from my
perspective of like sending them.
It is really hard to write theletter that's going to be going
to everybody, because you wantit to have enough content for
them to know what you do and beinterested in calling you back.

(44:59):
And the last thing I'll say isI spent a couple of thousand
dollars.
I didn't get a single sale offof that two thousand dollar
investment.
It was poo, that's a very I knewit was poo and I was mad the
whole time I was doing it, but Iwas looking to drive more
business and now look whatyou've done.
People are getting customized,highly customized for them, what

(45:23):
they do, what they care about,Because you said it goes in and
looks at sentiment of the thingsthat they've done, posted for
both the company and theindividual.

I in and looks at sentiment of the things that
they've done posted for both thecompany and the individual.
Well, I was talking to a VC outof New York that raises funds
right to go out and do differentthings, and he said that,
generally speaking, they go hiretwo or three interns from top
colleges.
They pay them $120,000 a yearand on a list of 20,000
investors, when they're buildinga fund, that's gonna take three
to four months, with fourpeople making a hundred thousand

(45:57):
dollars a year just to do theresearch, just the research.
So we're not talking aboutwritten.
Then they have a team of BDRs 10or 15 of them and then call
through all of the researchpeople and try to get them on a
call with a.
Through all of the researchpeople and try to get them on a
call with a.
And so he said, like thisprocess that I'm running it, so
to run the whole thing cost mefive grand to run through my

(46:17):
list of 20,000 investors and dothis process.
He said, yeah, like that wouldhave been easily half a million
dollars for us.
And the quality like when Ishowed him the quality of the
research and the quality of theemails he's your research is
research is better and theemails you're writing are better
than what we can get for$500,000.
Like that, I think, is thepower of these digital labor

(46:39):
systems right.
And then, as you alluded to,this is for VC outreach.
But it's not a stretch of theimagination to think that maybe
I have one of these running forthe service side of my business.
Maybe I have one of thesesystems running for the other
for a lot of different thingsBecause at some point it just
makes sense and leads.

(47:01):
For me today not really anissue Because I can.
You know if I pay 40 cents ininference, right?
to these LLMs and I've investedin the system to build it, and
that wasn't, that was work.
It was three weeks worth ofwork for a couple of developers
to really put it together andhave it work well, yeah, um,

(47:21):
once I'm done building a systemlike that, I can just improve it
forever, and there's noregression.
If you hire an employee to doit, at some point they're going
to have a fight with theirgirlfriend they're're going to
get drunk.
They're going to show up.
You're going to have to putthem on a pit, take action, yep.
Yep, yeah, all the things thathappen with people and it's a
drudge.

As you were telling the story.
I'm thinking about these21-year-olds who just came out
of a $200,000 education, out ofa $200,000 education, and
they're stuck at a computerterminal all day looking for the
same pieces of data for thesame types of companies.
I can't imagine how bored theyare and no wonder they become

(48:01):
disenchanted with what they callcorporate work, because there's
almost no creativity in whatthey're doing and you don't want
to like graduate from Harvardand then like from Harvard and
then like like be digginglooking for okay, when was the
last valuation?
Okay, where'd the CEO go toschool?

(48:21):
Okay, you know, cause it.
I mean, it's mindless.

Yeah.

So I didn't want to do it.

It looked like a giant waste of my time.
I thought, man, this is goingto take me six months to get
through.
It's going to take me sixmonths to get through this list
of stuff.

Did you blow through the whole list?

Are you plodding?

it.

Yeah, I am.
I can't deal with that muchvolume because there is a human
bottleneck right, because atsome point they want to have a
conversation with me.
Yeah, that's right, because atsome point, they want to have a
conversation with me.
I only have X amount of hoursduring the day that I can
dedicate towards doing this.
But the other thing that Irealized too is that part of the
reason I had to slow it downwas because in the first, I

(49:02):
would say in the first hundredcontacts that I made, there were
so many interested parties inwhat it was that we were doing.
Because I started at thehighest, like the highest score
probability right that it would,it just became a lot of work to
do the due diligence and toanswer the questions and all
that stuff.
Yeah, and so I was overwhelmedwith the work of fundraising

(49:22):
rather than the lead generationof fundraising which is fine,
that means it's gonna I'm.
We're gonna get over it sooneryeah, and that's good news for
me because, like I said, neverhave been a huge fan of
fundraising.

Does this segue nicely into Ruh?
Yes, here's the thing, and Ifeel I need to say this I'm not
bringing you on here toadvertise your business.
You wouldn't come on here toadvertise your business, but I
think what you are doing is sofundamental to people starting
to understand what thecapabilities are going to look
like.
That's what we're, that's thisconversation.

(49:55):
I'm not guiding you, I'mguiding my audience.

Yeah, I can even help with that, in the sense
that I will.
I'll be the first to admit thatRuh is one of many, and there
are a lot of platforms out therethat I use even today myself
that do similar things to whatRuh does.
The reason that I'm buildingRuh isn't.
It's because I wanted somethingthat took into account that

(50:21):
people are trying to operate abusiness, like, for instance, if
you go look at an agenticsystem.
That is super helpful.
I use it on a regular basis.
Maybe every day would be Manus.
Yeah, oh, yeah, give a reallyquick blurb about Manus, because
a lot of people might not haveheard of Manus.
Yes, so Manus is an agenticsystem.

(50:42):
They have a bit of a differentapproach.
They're using a single agentinfrastructure, which means that
it's one agent that does manythings, so you can use multiple
agents that have specific tasks.
Or you can use one agent thatdoes many things, so you can use
multiple agents that havespecific tasks, or you can use
one agent that has many thingsthat it does, and it's the
one-to-many architecture andreally you can do anything on it
.
If you go on and say I want youto build me a list of investors

(51:03):
that would be interested in thispresentation, and then you go
to sleep, you'll wake up in themorning with a list of investors
that would be interested inyour presentation.
If you want to build a mobileapp, you can ask it build me
this mobile app.
It'll build you the mobile app.
It can do a lot of differentstuff, so that's like an example
of a platform that I use.
That's an agentic system or adigital labor platform.

And it's fairly new.
It's been commercialized.
What?
Three or five months, somethinglike that.

That's possible.
I don't know the timeline.

It's newer.

Sometimes I'm like man, this is really old and I
look, and it was 19 days ago.

It's true, it's true.
I remember looking at my firstManus demo, probably five or six
months ago but we couldn't getin yet.
It was just the CEO giving theoverview of what it was going to
do.
It was remarkable, and I was onthe wait list forever.
Overview of what it was goingto do.
It was remarkable.

And I and I was on the wait list forever, and so
here's the thing.
Here's the thing about Ruh.

Tell us what Ruh spell it and tell us what the
word Ruh means, cause this is myheart, yeah.

Yeah, so Ruh Ruh is a the word.
It's from a very ancientlanguage, so it might have roots
in like Sanskrit or Arabic orkind of those languages, but it
means like the essence of thehuman soul, so like the part of
us that makes us human.
And it's spelled R-U-H, atleast in English, and so it's
R-U-H.
Dot A-I is what it is thatwe're building.

(52:23):
And here's the thing If youtold me, like for this VC
outreach tool, for instance, ifyou said you know, I want to, I
want to do that level ofresearch, I could turn you into
an orchestrator and I could showyou all the different tools,
like first go to perplexity andthen do this prompt, and then,
after you're done with that, Iwant you to go to deep research

(52:45):
and I want you to do this prompt, or maybe use.
Google Gemini, because it'llfind links, and then after that
I want you to use crawl for AI.
Pass it those links and thenpull that information in, then
take all of that information andgive it to Gemini 2.5 Pro,
because it's got a big contextwindow and it'll shrink it down
into a summary and then takethat and pass it to another, to

(53:05):
Claude Sonnet I think you're upto five tools.
And with this prompt and itwill do this could I could walk
you through the process.
Five different applicationsinvolved and, in the case of the
, like that VC outreach tool,that.
I was that I was talking about.
I think it's 38 differentagents that are doing work, and
when.
I say agent like one agent andeven more tools, right, and.

(53:29):
But I could teach you toorchestrate all of those agents
and get the work done as a humanorchestrator.
And what I realized and thiswas a while ago is I was
teaching all of my people to beorchestrators.
Right, because it makes youmore efficient.

(53:50):
Like, even if I had to gothrough and do that, you
probably get one email sentevery hour, let's say, which is
a huge reduction from one emailsent every eight hours right so.
I'm saving myself eight hours,but it's still wildly
inefficient, because if I buildan agent orchestrator that
orchestrates all of those,agents together tells them what

(54:11):
to do, how to do it and does theorchestration side of it.
I can take a one-hour task thatused to be an eight-hour task
and I can turn it into aneight-minute task, and so what
Ruh is Ruh is an operatingsystem.
Basically is the best way tothink about it.
Just like you have an operatingsystem on your computer that
allows you to run programs andyou can actually start hooking

(54:33):
the different functionality ofyour computer together to do
more and more impressive things.
It is a platform that allowspeople to do that, to build out
that orchestration for realbusiness work that they actually
have to do.
So, like in this case, it wasbuild out a system to reach out
to investors, because I don'twant to have to do it, I just
want to talk to people, becausethat's what I'm good at.

(54:53):
And so I built an agentic systemthat does that.
But I've got agentic systemsthat do all of the project
management for the softwaredevelopment check all the JIRA
tasks, like make sure thatpeople have put descriptions in
and timelines in and the levelof effort in, and is the

(55:16):
description that they put inactually descriptive of anything
, or do I need to give themfeedback?
And like those agents, yeah, arejust constantly looking at all
of the tasks that exist inside asoftware project and making
sure that it's holding peopleaccountable to following the
process that we use and actingas a project manager.
I've got we've got agents thatdo tons and tons of different
things that make us efficient,and that's where Ruh comes in.
Is that, I think the thing ithas that is unique is that it
acts as that operating system orthat orchestration system that

(55:37):
then allows you to createagentic systems that have it as
a platform so people can see it,but I don't have to use this,
as on the platform on theInternet, I can go to Slack and

(55:58):
I can say hey, rue, here'sanother list of 500 VCs, can you
please process this?
and set up email and set upappointments for me and I can
speak to it in real language.
Toss it a list of VCs on aspreadsheet and it'll run
through all of them, and I cando that on Slack.
I can send it an email.
I can actually call it up on myphone and just say hey.

(56:20):
In my Google Drive I have thislist of VCs that I just added.
Can you run through that listof VCs?
and try to set appointments withme for Ruh, and so we wanted to
build something that allowedpeople to work with AI in the
same way that they work withhumans and so that it feels very
natural.
Right, because we've been doingthis for a long time and I

(56:40):
don't think people want a newuser experience.
They just want to be able toutilize AI with the same user
experience they've always had.

I'm having fun lately because people around me
are discovering vibe coding andthey're losing their minds and I
just smile Because they've beenreally busy and they've been
heads down and these aretechnical people but they've
been trying to get their productto MVP right.
And one of my foundersabsolutely called me like just
screaming, because he had beento a meetup and discovered

(57:13):
lovable of all things, that's sooh, and he said lovable is
lovable was fun.

I remember when I discovered lovable, that was six
, eight months ago or somethinglike that.

I've moved way past lovable at this point.

But I still use lovable on a regular in, in fact
, my salespeople, when they'reon a conversation with someone.
They build lovable prototypesfor clients while they're on the
call with the client yeah, as away to show them like is this
what you're saying?
It's a good experience, rightyeah.

So let me ask then does Rue operate like
lovable and cursor and theseother vibe coding?
Does Ruh operate like lovableand cursor and these other vibe
coding Like?
Does it simplify it so thatsomeone with clear mindset, but
not someone who writes Pythonevery day, can use Ruh?
Who's your intended audience?

level.
So I would say it depends onwhat level people want to do
stuff.
So, like for the solopreneur,let's say, it can be as simple
as you hop on Ruh and say hey,Ruh, my email inbox is a mess
and I just I'm sick of dealingwith all the garbage and not
knowing what's important andwhat's not important.
And so what I want you to do isI want you to take all of my

(58:25):
email, I want you to divide itinto the four quadrants that
come from that sweet book urgentand important, not urgent and
important, et cetera, et cetera.
And I want you to organize itby folders.
I want you to create drafts forall of the emails that you
think.
You can create a draft emailback for me to look at.
And then every single day, infact twice a day, in Slack, I

(58:49):
want you to send me a messagewith a triage report on my email
.
So you just talk to it, justlike that.
And then you hit submit and Ruegoes and builds the workflow and
the agent in order to do that,and then you have an employee
that is an email triage employee.
And on a daily basis.
That email will go in or thatemployee will go in and do that

(59:11):
to your email and if you everneed to modify it, you can.
And so now you have a newemployee that's working for you.
Yep, so that would be on thesimplest side of it.
Simpler side of it.
Or you can build, you canactually sit down with a real
development team, that is vibecoding preferably, and build out
a system that can do like thisVC outreach thing.

(59:31):
You probably couldn't, itprobably isn't sophisticated
enough to build this whole like38 agent system, right, but you
can sit down with a team ofpeople and work with Ruh and
build the whole thing out andthen you have this employee that
would be your VC outreach emailemployee and it would just work
for you and your company.
Anytime you want to go raisemoney, you say sweet, here's,

(59:53):
and then you go build your listbuilding agent that you say, hey
, I need to build a list ofinvestors who are interested in
AI products in the UK, and itgoes out and does the research
and builds a list.
It passes it to this employee,emails them, it passes that to
the follow-up employee who thenfollows up with them and it sets
an appointment and then thatpasses it to the follow-up
employee who then follows upwith them and it sets an
appointment and then that passesit to the scheduling employee.

(01:00:14):
That tells me that I've gotcalls with VCs that I have to go
and hop on, and so you startstringing these employees
together and these workflowstogether, really with models
that have enough memory andintelligence to do the tasks and
the tools to do them access toemail, access to calendars,
access to Zoom info, whatever itis they then start working as

(01:00:35):
employees in your company?
They just do it for almost nomoney 24 hours a day.

Tonya J. Long (01:00:39):
We're going to pause for a very quick station
break.
You are listening to KPCR 92.9LP out of Los Gatos, so help me
with this.
I see all this.
I live in this bubble, I havethese conversations, but then I

(01:01:02):
feed a list of 100 first andlast names to ChatGPT and say
alphabetize this for me by lastname, and I get back a list of
68 people and they're looselyalphabetized but not even close
to accurate and I lose my mind.
So people talk abouthallucinations.
I think that that's a lot lessthan it was two years ago.

Jesse Anglen (01:01:26):
Yes.
Although it's a big deal, itstill happens.

The systems are still highly imperfect on what I
consider just an infantile task.
Take these hundred names andalphabetize them.
So what can you say to peopleto give them trust in the
quality of the work and theaccuracy of the work?
I've had systems, of course,because I'm a super user totally
make up a list of names.

(01:01:49):
I don't want to be emailingnon-existent VCs using your VC
outreach example.
I don't want, and it does.
It will still give you what itthinks you want to hear.
Depending on the tool you'reusing, it's a higher risk.
What's your answer?
to help people get past thathurdle.

Some of it just comes with.
If, let's say, you're manuallyorchestrating and using these
tools, yeah, what you willdiscover is that, like, for
instance, chat, GPT tends to besycophantic, in the sense that
it wants to give you what youwant, even if it can't.

Yes, yes, you're so smart so anytime you go.
Right.

Anytime that you go to chat and it depends on the
model Right.
So, if you go to chat ChatGPT4.1, for instance, and you ask
it to do a task, it will alwayssuccessfully complete the task,
but it will not alwaystruthfully complete the task,
but it will always be successful.
And so if, for instance, if youtell it, find me, I want you to
find me a thousand VCs, it's abad example.

(01:02:43):
Or let's say, I want you tofind me a hundred VCs that would
be interested in investing inRuh, that all live in Bayview,
idaho.

Okay.

Right interested in investing in Ruh that all
live in Bayview Idaho.
It'll say here's a list of1,000 VCs interested in Ruh that
all live in Bayview Idaho, andit's going to be wrong because
there are zero VCs that live inBayview Idaho.
I know this for a fact becauseI live in Bayview, Idaho, and
there just aren't any.
But if you go and give that sametask to Claude Sonnet, for
instance it will come back andsay there are no VCs that live

(01:03:15):
in Bayview, idaho.
You're crazy.
You need to go down to SiliconValley somewhere Like what are
you doing, trying to raise moneyin Bayview, idaho.
And that is because Claude isnot sycophantic.
But let's say I want to write ablog article and I want it to
sound really good.

Right, An opinion piece or something along those
lines.

If I give it to Claude, it's going to sound
factual and professional and allthat.
The writing's not going to bevery good If I go give it to
ChatGBT 4.1, it's going to beamazing.
That's one small example ofjust trying.
Knowing yeah, knowing right, andso Ruh does not.
Ruh has one proprietary modelthat we trained.

(01:03:55):
It's about to have two becausewe've got another model that
builds out workflows.
Okay, but one of the things asan orchestration engine that
allows you to orchestrate theseagentic systems, instead of
giving you access to chatChatGPT we give you access to
400 different large languagemodels.
Now, for most people it's goingto be very overwhelming, so it

(01:04:15):
defaults to the ones that aregoing to generalize and do well
on most tasks.
But if you're somebody whounderstands these systems and
how to build them, you basicallycan just build for
hallucination resistance,hallucination resistance.

(01:04:35):
I build factual agents out ofLLMs that don't hallucinate to
double check that other LLMsaren't hallucinating inside my
system and I'm correcting them.
So that's other things, I guessthe other one, like in your
specific example, I would neverask ChatGPT to do anything with
a CSV.
Instead, what I would do is Iwould tell it to write some
Python code that ingested my CSVand then did the operation and

(01:04:57):
then give it back to me.
Right, because code alwaysworks the way that code is
supposed to work.
It will do a good writing codeand so even just understanding
that process of how to engage isa part of it, and we're trying

(01:05:21):
to build as much of that as wecan into Ruh, the back end, how
to engage systems.
In fact, if you go do researchon agent routers and how to pick
like what LLM for whatconversation?
there's a lot of really smartpeople that were actually
borrowing their work.
In that case, I think we standon the shoulders of giants on

(01:05:42):
how to actually choose largelanguage models based on the
tasks that you're doing.
Because and this is just thisis me being silly on some levels
, but I don't have asubscription to chat ChatGPT and
that's it right.
I subscribe to every singlemajor model, plus, I have ways
to run all of the private models, because they all do things

(01:06:07):
differently and sometimes I needthings that some of them don't
and I think that's where it getsoverwhelming to people, because
they'll come to me like I triedchat ChatGPT and so it didn't
work.
Gosh, of course it didn't workfor that task you should have
been using gemini 2.5 pro the6.5 edition, not the 5.6 edition
, because it does the best jobat that task, because how's a
normal person supposed to knowthat?

and I don't want the normal people living in this
bubble.
They shouldn't have to, theyshouldn't have to know the
difference and the fact that thetool can is where we're headed.
You said overwhelmed and itmade me think.
So many people are stilloverwhelmed by this conversation
, by how we're describing theopportunity.

(01:06:47):
Ceos, where would you encouragethem to start?
Because I think the ones who'velistened know this is where
we're going.
I can't use the word accept.
They understand where we'regoing, but they're really
reluctant to start because ofall the implications.
What is your simplest advicefor how to consider starting on

(01:07:12):
this agentic path?

Although I did it a long time ago with models that
weren't as good.
I always just suggest thatpeople start where I started.
Pick one small thing that willnot have a huge impact on your
company if it doesn't go well.
Implement it and start using itand see what kind of an impact
it makes.
I think it really does justboil down to taking that one.

(01:07:36):
There was a guy I was talkingto the other day.
He's I don't know where tostart and I said, dude, just
start, add an assistant intoyour email that writes drafts
for you.

and organizes your email.

Start there.
Don't do something crazy.
Just start there and what'llhappen is in about two and a
half three weeks.
it's going to be impossible foryou to imagine life without it
because, it's going to save youso much work and then, if you
really want to see the impact,turn it off and go back to doing
it the way you used to do itand you'll be like, huh, that

(01:08:09):
sucks, and so usually that's whyI tell people just start
somewhere simple.
Generally speaking, when wework with clients from on the
service side of things, where webuild out agentic systems, like
very few people come to us andwant to add a hundred AI agents
into their company, right, likeusually they'll say things like
I want to add a research agentfor my salespeople so that,

(01:08:32):
prior to them going on a call,we can research the prospect,
understand their pain points andbuild a specific PowerPoint
presentation for them.

Yeah, for instance.
Yeah, something super clean,super easy and super valuable
for them to go into that callwith the right mindset.

Yeah, and then you build that and you watch and
see what happens.
You watch your KPIs and you gooh, look like our close rate
jumped by 3%.
Like overall, that's a 3% extraprofit for this year all
because we implemented this onesystem that costs us one tenth
as much as one of oursalespeople.

Yeah.

Like that was worth it, and so then you start
looking at other ways to augmentother people on your team.
Ultimately, it boils down tothis Human, like human, value
creation.
I'm going to use a dumb example, but I think it's a really
visual, good example.
If you if on a constructionsite, you need to move dirt from

(01:09:30):
one place to another, right, oryou need to dig a hole which is
a common thing, right.
You build a house, you have todig it out for the basement.
People aren't just moving thedirt for no reason, right, like,
generally speaking, the reasonthat you are moving the dirt is
so that you can pour the wallsfor a foundation, or because you
need to put in drainage, orbecause of something.
Right, the act of moving dirtis in itself, worthless,

(01:09:52):
completely 100% worthless,non-valuable work.
Right, it is the end result.
Currently, across millions andmillions of companies worldwide,
there are a bunch of peoplemoving dirt, and the reason that
they're moving dirt is becausethere is hope that at the end of

(01:10:13):
that dirt moving task, theywill do something valuable put
in a foundation, which, onceagain, worthless, like, no one
needs a foundation, it doesn'tmatter.
The reason they do that is sothey can put in the floor right,
which is also worthless,because no one needs a floor,
which the reason they do that is, so you can put in walls, which
are worthless because you don'tneed walls, you need siding and
insulation, because, at the endof the day, the thing that has

(01:10:35):
value is a house, right?
And when you start thinkingabout how much your people do,
that is worthless.
Like ie, they are moving dirt,and that's the reason I use that
portion of the example to tryto make it as vivid as possible.
You are literally moving dirt.

(01:10:56):
Nothing could be more worthlessthan moving dirt.
You're doing that because youhave this plan that once you're
done with this, all of thisprocessing that you do, the end
result is going to be somethingthat is much more valuable than
one of its individual pieces.
And, like for me, the placethat I started was what people
do I have in my company that aremoving dirt.

(01:11:17):
And can I build something thatmoves the dirt for them?
Right, because it's even if youtake the analogy further, it's
even worse than that that a lotof companies have people moving
dirt with a shovel and a bucketRight, and they're not even
using an excavator.
They're not even using awheelbarrow.

Sometimes they're not even using shuffles right,
like they're just using theirhands.

And because we have these very antiquated
systems, imagine that you don'teven have to move dirt.
I mean like if building a housewas as simple as walking up on
a piece of property and goingman you know what, right there
it looks amazing.
This design is going to begreat.
I want this view.
I want these kinds of counters.
I want all this stuff.

(01:11:58):
You go to sleep the next day.
You wake up there's a housethere, it's there, poof.
Right, that is what AI does forbusinesses, because I can say I
want to have a bunch of meetingswith VCs interested in the
company I'm raising money for,here's all the information you
need to know about it.
And then I can go to sleep andwhen I wake up the next morning
I can have six appointments onmy calendar for that week,

(01:12:22):
that's.

I mean, that's how far this goes.
It doesn't just do the research, but it has agency to take the
actions, take the autonomousaction to go ahead and set those
up on the calendar for you.

Yeah, and then the value creation that happens is
the processing for that valuecreation.
It just no longer has to happen.
Now there are some steps ofbuilding a house you probably
don't want to outsource.
Maybe the electrical is reallyimportant and you want people to
look at that.
There's a reason.
People do inspections, Even inthe digging of the dirt.

(01:12:58):
Sometimes it's important tohave people there to make sure
things are going right.
But the point that I try tomake to people is that inside
your company right now, probably80% of what you do is a waste
of time.
It actually is just a means toan end.
It is moving dirt.

That's why employees are so dissatisfied.

Yeah, and some employees aren't.
Some people are happy movingdirt.
I used to move dirt for aliving.
When I was younger I went andworked on construction crews.
I've moved a lot of dirt in mylife.
The truth is, I doubt you canfind somebody, even in the
construction world, where, ifyou said, hey, listen, if from
now on all the dirt was alwaysmoved when you showed up, would
you be okay with it?
They'd be like man, that soundsamazing, because they want to go

(01:13:45):
and build the forms and theywant to do all the other stuff
right, and that's what Iencourage people to do is find
the dirt Like where's the dirtthat needs to be moved and
outsource that to an AI.
No one wants to do it anyways.
It's a miserable job.
It's like insulation.
No one wants to do insulation.
It's terrible.
Outsource that to an AI.
Outsource as much as you can toan AI and then take your very

(01:14:07):
best people your best architects, your best finished carpenters,
your best roofers, your bestsiters, your best landscapers,
your best dirt movers and givethem access to these tools and
you will make them so muchbetter than they are today.
The quality of the work thatthey do will increase
exponentially.
Their enjoyment of their joband their happiness will

(01:14:29):
increase exponentially.
The end product and the valuethat you deliver will be
exponentially less expensive andtherefore fostering this
abundance, this abundance worldthat we could potentially have
with AI, and you can be a partof something amazing that's
usually what I tell people.

So you've been really good about seeing the
future.
You were 14 and said thisschool thing is not my jam.
And then you jumped intoBitcoin, when we still have a
lot of people, myself included,that are not on the Bitcoin
train, even though I know.

But you know it's a whole other conversation.
You're just like watching theprice and wishing that you could
have gotten it in 2010?

I just like my friends calling me up and saying
hey, Tonya, I bought XRP and itdoubled, thanks, and I'm like,
because I needed to have itdouble for me.
But they take action.
I don't so, but you've beenlike, you've had a crystal ball
into the future.
So, as we start to wrap, upwhat is a year from now for you?

(01:15:37):
What do you think things looklike?
Don't let adoption gate youranswer, because adoption is a
huge issue.

I won't talk about adoption.
I never think about adoption.
It's a waste of time to thinkabout it.
Things will get adopted or theywon't, I don't care.
I just I want to know what'spossible.

I love it.

I will say I've been really wrong on the AI
stuff, more wrong than I've beenabout anything in my life.

Because it moved faster than you anticipated Just
yes.

Yeah.
I get that and when I say thattwo years ago I anticipated that
we would be where we are todayin five years.
And so it was less than half.
It took less than half the timeto get to where we are today.
So I would take everything Isay with a grain of salt, and I
will also say people thought Iwas insane when I said Timing is

(01:16:25):
different from accuracy yes.

Right, yes, yeah.

So I think what's going to happen is this is going
to be the decade ofintelligence and agency.
We'll call it.

You're talking about a decade.
I am shocked.

Digital labor.
I think it will take a decadeto get to the end of where all
value creation and when I sayall, I mean all value creation,
whether that be a diagnosis fora disease, a new medication, the
creation of a book or a movie,the creation of an application,
I think all value creation couldbe given to AI, and it will be

(01:17:04):
able to do it at the same levelas the majority of human beings
Not all, but the majority ofhuman beings.
I think that we'll live in aworld where there is no such
thing as a web app or like anapp on your phone.

Yeah.

I think that in the future, you're going to just
tell your phone what it is thatyou want out of your life.
I want to wake up in themorning at 5 am.
I want to build these habits.
I need to manage my calendar inthis way.
I want to see my emails likethis.
I want to be able to sendmessages to my friends.
In this way, I think you'll beable to tell your phone what it
is, how you want to live yourlife and what you want to do.

(01:17:41):
Your phone what it is that you,how you want to live your life
and what you want to do, and itwill build you an operating
system and applications for youto live your life that way.
And when you don't like it, youjust tell it to make
adjustments and it will do it.
I mean, you're just saying allprograms and applications are
going to look like that, whereas, man, I don't like.
I don't like how you have thebutton over there.
That's oh, where would you likeit?
Well, I'd like it over here.
It makes more sense to me.
Okay, and then there you go.
Everyone will have their ownpersonalized applications that

(01:18:04):
are running on their ownmachines, like I.
I think that in.
I think that people will workif they want to.
I think that a lot of peoplewill work.

I will be working you know, in a decade.
Even if I don't have to, I loveto work.

Yeah, I love to be a part of value creation and I
think that the tools that we'llhave access to to do that are
going to be insane.
You're not going to be hiringdevelopers.
You're not going to be hiringaccountants.
You're not going to be hiringgraphics designers.
What you're going to do is, Ithink, that human beings are
going to be vision casterssaying this is the thing that I

(01:18:40):
want, this is the thing thatneeds to happen.

This is the work that needs to get done.

And then they're going to be curators, right?
Not creators, because right now, human beings are the creators
of value, it's true.

But there's a lot of effort in that.

Yep, and I think that there will come a time,
like in the house analogy, where, instead of creating, you
curate the house.
After it's built, you walkthrough it and you say I don't
like this color of trim, I don'tpaint.

I don't do counters.

I think we need more outlets over here.
I don't like the carpet.
I want an extra bathroom overhere.
The roof line's too steep.
Whatever, you curate it and thenthe AI goes back in Revision,
cast To your point, yes, andwe'll be the creators of
whatever it is that we want tobe creators of, which I think is
going to probably sit in thearts and entertainment, like

(01:19:26):
people are going to write books,people are going to paint
pictures, people are going tocreate movies and movie scripts,
like those really human things,but everything else that is
just noise, that just gets inthe way.
I think all that's going to getdelegated to AI in the next
decade and agentic systems thatare doing things for us get
delegated to AI in the nextdecade and agentic systems that
are doing things for us.
I don't think we're going touse computers the same way like,

(01:19:47):
in the sense that I think themouse and keyboard are going to
disappear entirely.
We're going to have anassistant in our computer that
understands our goals, knowswhat it is that we're trying to
do, and our work becomes morelike the collaboration with an
external intelligence thatyou're delegating your vision to
and it's doing the things thatneeds to happen.
So that's the world that I seebeing created and I think it'll

(01:20:10):
happen in 10 years.
Here's I heard something crazyGlobally, human beings pay other
human beings $52 trillion ayear to do work of, and
specifically to do, knowledgework.
Not all work, just knowledgework.
So that's not building housesand this other stuff, just
knowledge work.
I read a paper recently thatsaid that if ai doesn't improve

(01:20:38):
at all from this day forward, ofthat $52 trillion worth of
knowledge work, between $18 and$22 trillion worth of it could
be delegated to AI today andhave the result be better than
the humans that are currentlydoing it 40% Wow.

(01:20:59):
Yeah, that's today.
That's no improvements, no,nothing.
And so, with that being thecase, it will happen, it just
will, and that paper was writtenlike a month ago.
The truth is, that numberprobably increases by a trillion
or two trillion dollars everymonth, and so very soon it will
be 100% as possible, and thenthe only thing that's going to

(01:21:22):
be stopping it will just be usslowing down the process because
we're uncomfortable with what'shappening.
Right, we don't feel good aboutthe people losing their jobs.
Maybe we're even in a crisis.
I don't know what happens if youlay off every single knowledge
worker on planet Earth today,but you'd have a global crisis
that would be far worse thananything humanity's ever
experienced.
From a jobs perspective andpoverty perspective, it would be

(01:21:50):
a nightmare, and so maybe weslow it down just because of
that.
But if you don't think aboutthose things, and you think
about what is possible, likevalue creation becomes free,
which means that we live in aworld of abundance, far more
than anything that humanity hasever experienced, and scarcity
becomes something that is just.
You don't even you don't buyprograms anymore, you don't.
I think in theory, you couldlive in a world where you don't
pay for anything, whereeverything that the cost to

(01:22:14):
create value is so inexpensivethat you can do it for free,
especially on the intellectualside of things.
Maybe not on the physical sideRobotics, that's a whole nother
thing.
I think that'll take longer.

I think that'll take longer.
I think we're 20 years away onthat, but I can be wrong.
Maybe we're 10 years away.
I'm surprised you're not morebullish on robotics.
I'm pretty bullish on robotics.

I might just be stupid on robotics, or ignorant,
which is possible.
I would not put it past me thatI'm ignorant and stupid on the
robotics side of things.
There's a lot of things I'mignorant and stupid on.
On the robotic side of thingsthere's a lot of things ignorant
and stupid on actually, justsimply because I have not ever
looked into it.
I paid this much attention to itbecause I'm so focused on the
agentic side of things, yeah Ithink that when robotic, when

(01:22:52):
robotics and agent and theagentic world cross paths, I
will have to become an expertand I have been told by some
people that will happen thisyear or possibly next and and so
I will, if we do this podcastlet's say 18 months from now.
I might know more.

Yeah, oh, I suspect I loved what you shared
about what you see in the nextyear, but I suspect you are
wildly wrong.
In an unimaginable I could nothave forecasted this level of
growth and development way andall of us for making things

(01:23:31):
happen.

I was told when I first wanted to build Ruh it was
two years ago I said, hey,let's build this.
And I was told by my CTO.
He said number one the level ofexpertise.
And because of the technologythat would need to be created,
the level of expertise that we'dhave to hire in order to do
this is makes it unfeasible.

Like I don't think we can do it.

And even if we had that team, it would take us 10
years to build what it is thatyou're talking about.
And I went, huh, okay, so we'reprobably not going to build
this now.
So we built some other stuff.
When him and I talked fivemonths ago, I said, hey, now I
want to build it.
And he said, okay, I'll have itfor you in four months.
So the estimate from two yearsago was nine years and a bunch

(01:24:15):
of people we'd have to hire anda bunch of technology we'd have
to create.
So two years later, we were ableto build the entire system in
five months.
That shows the level of growththat the world is currently
experiencing, and people talkabout it slowing down.
It's not slowing down.
It just isn't Like it's.
If anything, it's speeding up,but it certainly isn't slowing

(01:24:37):
down and it's definitely goingthe same speed, and so the
world's changing.
I'm very excited for it.
I hope that humanity does goodthings with this technology.

Yeah, and just to plant a seed, because I said
this at a panel I did the othernight.
We think like this, we lovethis, this drives us, this
really is our passion andpurpose.
There are 130 million people inthe US who still don't read
beyond a sixth grade level andthat terrifies me.

(01:25:10):
When people ask me what keepsme up at night, it's, you know,
it's the people I grew up with,that you know that might fall
into that bucket, but I don'tthink that we're going to
magically teach 50-year-olds whodon't have beyond a sixth grade
level operating capacity.
I don't think we a sixth gradelevel operating capacity.
I don't think we're just goingto teach them to read, but I
think we're going to bring lifeto them in a simplified way that

(01:25:31):
lets them engage.
So that's my encouragement toall the super builders like you
that we have to build technologythat enables all of us, not
just the ones of us who love thetechnology.
Yeah.

It'll start more complicated and it'll get
simpler and simpler.

Already has, it already has.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good.

And that trend will continue.
I think it's like computers, Ifyou remember computers in the
80s, right In the early 80s,before I was born.

I carried a sewing.
It was like a sewing machine,right it was like an 18 pound.
I hauled it up and down thehill.
Capitol Hill in Tennessee.
I was an auditor.
It was yeah, and there was abook.

There was a book that came with it.
It was like an inch and a half,maybe two inches thick of like
all the things you had to knowfor how to use it, cause it
didn't even have a mouse.
That's right, there was no UIthere.
I bet you could have taken atwo-year college class on how to
use a computer.
Yeah, oh yeah.
And if you look today, I cangive my phone, which is a

(01:26:34):
computer, to a three-year-old.
That's right and they canoperate it just fine.

As you roll their eyes.
Just fine, they can do a lotmore than we want them to.

Yeah maybe even better than people.

Ai will do the same thing over the course of
the next decade or two, whereit'll become so easy to use her
way to a new place.
You know, in a town nearbythere were all kinds, and so my
mama grew into it.
Lots of grandparents aregetting on FaceTime with their
grandkids across the country.
I think people that aren'tinclined to reach for technology

(01:27:17):
are being presented withtechnology.
That's why I'm very excited tosee what Johnny Ives brings to
OpenAI.

Right, it's going to be very interesting.
It will be very interesting asone of the most visionary
technical I would say nottechnical he's like a user
experience guru of some sort.
He was very brilliant.
I do wonder, though, with him,how much of his skill set was
implementing the visions ofsomebody like Steve.

Jobs.

We will know Because if you look at what
Apple has come out with sinceSteve Jobs died, they have done
very little innovation.
I mean they've done some coolsoftware stuff and things like
that, but he was always likeonce every year, two years, not
an innovation.
And he was yeah.
I mean, steve would come outand be like hey, look at this

(01:28:06):
thing that we did.
That doesn't even seem possible.
It was always like magic and Idon't think that we have someone
really like that on planetEarth at the moment that I you
know and I don't know that Ivesis that guy, johnny Ives you
know, and his partnership withSam.

you know people from different ways.

I think he could make it, though I think if
somebody said here's the visionfor a future that looks way
different, where you put acomputer in your pocket.
I think he is the guy to go andsay, okay, I can get behind
that and make that work.
I hope that is what ishappening with their partnership
, because I think it could bereally cool.
What is happening with theirpartnership because I think it
could be really cool.

And that kind of development will then trigger
all the things that come to usto then build with, build on,
build for Right.

Yeah.

It will be a sea change of activity, oh 100% I'm
not waiting 18 months to bringyou back.

Yeah, Okay, I'll come talk to you back.
Yeah, okay, I'll come talk toyou whenever.
We'll have fun conversations.

I do have to go today, though.

I'm about out of time.
I really appreciate you lettingme come and jibber-jabber for
however long it's been.
This has been more fun than Ican imagine Two hours.

No, it's all good .
You know, the hard part now isediting this.
Yes, you know the the hard partnow is editing this too.
Yes, I don't want to throwanything away, it's all going to
be good.
So how can people not get intouch with you?
But how can people see whatyou're doing?
And and can people experimentwith rue?
If not, how?
How long before they could?
Um?

yeah, so there's an internal beta he wants.
If someone wanted to experimentin a serious way, like they're
a business and they say hey likeI really want to implement this
, then I make it available.
I'm working with severalbusinesses right now.
We're implementing workflows.
We're basically doing what Iwould call a closed beta.

Yeah, yeah.

The platform itself.
People are going to be able tosign up and start paying for
stuff.
It should be really in the nextfew days.
Even there are people that havebeen testing it like an
internal beta just individualusers, solopreneurs, friends of
mine, people.
But if they go to Ruh.
ai they can schedule anappointment.
I'll show up on that call for ademo and kind of show them what

(01:30:16):
it can do, figure out what theywant.
Or people can find me If you goGoogle me.
There's my phone number'sonline.

I think even oh jeez, no, do not call Jesse
Anglin.
No one.
Can you believe that?
No, do not call him.
Do not text him and say youhave a great idea to add to his
portfolio.
Do not, do not.

Or do it's fine, but they can, they can.
He speaks a lot.
You, they can find you on.

LinkedIn yes.

Yes, linkedin yes, yeah.
Yeah, honestly, if you go andGoogle my name and like Jesse
Anglin, rapid Innovation, you'llfind 65 different ways to get
ahold of me.

Yeah, yeah so.
But, jesse Anglin, a-n-g-l-e-nand I'll put some of those in
the show notes and I lookforward to seeing you again,
maybe eight or nine months,maybe.
End of year, first of next year, would be a good time to circle
back, and next time I want youto play that Ovation guitar
behind you, something small forour group.

(01:31:13):
I grew up in Nashville, soOvation was the upgrade when you
really cared about bright sound.

Yeah, I love what and specifically that ovation.
I've never been a huge fan ofovation sounds compared to some
of the other guitars I've had,like Taylor's and Martin's and
things like that, but thatparticular ovation I just I it
was at a pawn shop and I wentand played it.
And it sounds like a it justit's the nicest sounding ovation

(01:31:44):
I've ever heard for a thin body, right.

It doesn't.
It's not the big body ovation,it's the thin body.

It just sounds really nice, and so I picked it
up and it's now my day-to-day.
It's now my day-to-day player.
I love it.
Whenever I'm stressed out, Ikeep it there so I can sit back
and mess around with it.
I love it back and mess aroundwith it.

I love it.
Excellent times, thank you.
Thank you so much for this time.
It's so valuable.
What you've shared, I think, isgoing to impact or help a lot
of people see their way throughto the vision that you have.
So thank you for being here.
Any last statement before I goThanks for having me.

Okay, I got nothing else.

It was fun chatting with you and I'm glad
that we could do this.

We've had a lot of conversations not on the air
that were very fun, and it wasfun to have one that we can
share with other people.
I hope it's beneficial andpeople get something out of it,
which I think they will.
I have every confidence.
I appreciate you having me on.

Yeah, we'll do this again, Jesse.
Thanks so much Everyone.
This has been Jesse, englandand Tonya Long.
On RESET with Tonya and weappreciate your time and we hope
that we're part of your journeyas we all look to our
transitions, as we do more, lovemore and learn more.
Everyone, have a wonderful day,take care Goodbye.

(01:32:56):
This is Tonya Long.
Thanks for joining us today onPirate Cat Radio 92.9 LP, kpcr
out of Los Gatos and KMRT LP101.9 out of Santa Cruz.

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Tonya J. Long

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