March 12, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when the therapist needs therapy? In this vulnerable and illuminating conversation, clinical counselor Jennifer Schrappe opens up about her personal wake-up call that forced her to confront years of self-neglect while caring for others. With over 20 years of experience in mental health and standing at the intersection of therapeutic practice and pastoral ministry, Jennifer shares the moment she realized that constantly putting herself last wasn't serving anyone – especially when her own health hung in the balance.
The discussion takes us through Jennifer's courageous journey with food addiction, how her oldest child leaving for college triggered an emotional reckoning, and the pivotal moment when her husband expressed fear of losing her to an early grave. "Life is right now," she reflects, not someday after all the responsibilities are handled. This recognition transformed her approach to both personal wellness and professional practice.
We dive deep into therapy approaches for trauma, with Jennifer explaining her use of Internal Family Systems and Rapid Resolution Therapy. She artfully describes how these modalities help clients recognize emotional patterns, trace them back to their origins, and develop new neural pathways. Particularly fascinating is her explanation of how therapists navigate working with clients whose struggles mirror their own fears – and the delicate dance of maintaining professional boundaries while acknowledging personal reactions.
The conversation also explores religious trauma, revenue diversification for mental health professionals, and Jennifer's upcoming course on healing emotional patterns around money. Her blend of clinical expertise and spiritual insight offers a refreshing perspective for anyone interested in authentic healing – whether you're a therapy professional or someone navigating your own mental health journey.
Want to connect with Jennifer? Visit www.JenniferSchrappe.com or find her on Instagram at Jennifer_Schrappe_LPCC to learn more about her work and upcoming projects.
Freed AI converts conversations into SOAP note.Use code Steve50 for $50 off the 1st month!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and
(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Bienvenue aux épisodes de transition.
Welcome to the transitionalepisodes of Finding your Way
Resilience, development andAction.
My name is Steve Bisson.
We're going to be doing thisfor a few weeks until we get to
the full rebranding, which isobviously going to be Resilience
, development and Action.
I just want to make sure thatpeople follow me throughout
these changes, so that's why I'mdoing it that way.
(01:00):
I hope you listen to episode 194.
My co-hosts Courtney Romanowskiand Lisa Monka.
It was a great episode.
We talked about dance movement,so please go back and listen to
it.
But episode 195 will be withsomeone again.
I choose all the people withdifferent last names, so I hope
I get it right.
Jennifer Schrappi I think that'show we pronounce it.
(01:21):
I'll probably mess it up.
Jennifer is a clinicalcounselor, supervisor and
director of ChrysalisEnterprises Counseling Practice
in Columbus Ohio.
She's been in the field forover 20 years, specializing in
trauma.
She has a special place in ourheart for the hurting, having
been struck by her own stuff formany years.
She loves to help people live,work and love without being
(01:41):
ruled by their emotions.
So I really enjoyed meeting hervia email and I'm hoping that
the interview goes well.
And here's the interviewGetfreeai.
Yes, you've heard me talk aboutit previously in other episodes
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(02:04):
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note, and things like that.
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what the client is saying,because it is keeping track of
(02:25):
what you're saying and willcreate, after the end of every
session, a progress note.
But it goes above and beyondthat.
Not only does it create aprogress note, it also gives you
suggestions for goals, givesyou even a mental status if
you've asked questions aroundthat, as well as being able to
write a letter for your clientto know what you talked about.
So that's the great, greatthing.
(02:47):
It saves me time, it saves me alot of aggravation and it just
speeds up the progress noteprocess so well.
And for $99 a month.
I know that that's nothing.
That's worth my time, that'sworth my money.
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(03:07):
and put in the code steve50 whenyou get the service at the
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(03:29):
get 10 off, get free fromwriting notes, get freed from
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So they win out, you win out,everybody wins, and I think that
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So, getfreeai code, steve50 tosave $50 on your first month.
(03:58):
Well, hi everyone and welcome tothe premiere episode of Finding
your Way Resilience,development and Action.
Yes, this is the transition.
It's the premiere episode ofFinding your Way Resilience,
development and Action.
Yes, this is the transition.
It's the premiere episode andI'm happy to have a guest who
has a lot of experience withtrauma.
We got in touch online throughemail and, very happy I read her
bio.
I was very excited to have heron, but Jennifer Schrappi, did I
(04:19):
get it right?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes, just about Schrappi.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Schrappi, fine, all right.
Well, welcome to Finding yourWay to Resilience Development in
Action.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yes, thank you for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So you get to be the first one to be on the
transitional podcast until itgets to the new name.
So congratulations on that.
That's exciting and obviously Iread your bio, went to your
website and everything.
Very excited that you're here,but my audience doesn't know who
you are, so maybe you canintroduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Absolutely so.
Yes, I am Jennifer Schrappe andI am a clinical counselor in
Columbus, ohio.
(05:09):
I've been in the field for alittle over 20 years.
I run a practice calledChrysalis Enterprises of Ohio.
We have a team of 11 cliniciansand I also do speaking and some
other mental health relatedservices around the community
crisis response and so on and soforth.
I'm also a pastor about to beordained in the Church of the
Nazarene, and so a lot of peoplecome see me because they want
to be seen by a Christiantherapist.
(05:31):
But obviously I'm not in thisfield to impose my beliefs on
anyone, so I delight in walkingalongside the hurting and
helping them find hope andhealing Well, do you have time
for yourself once in a while?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I mean everything you just said.
I'm like do you do anything forfun?
I mean Jesus.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
You know that has been a big, needed wake up call.
To be honest, I like to be asauthentic as I can with you know
healthy boundaries around thatauthenticity and lately I've had
to learn to walk alongside thewisdom of you know therapists.
(06:16):
Heal thyself.
Because I was my own wellnesswas so much on the back burner
for a long, long time and guesswhat?
That wasn't working.
I really thought it would.
I tried it over and over andover and it was not working, and
so finally I had to really givesome attention.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So what caused you to get to that point you talked
about.
You know, authenticity is whatI believe in too, and if you
want to know, if you want toknow my definition of being
authentic and being truthful, Igo back to Alanis Morissette.
She said this on a iTunesspecial that she did it's like
there's a difference betweenauthenticity and secrecy.
(06:58):
Being authentic is beingyourself and you're allowed to
have some privacy behind that.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But if you start having secretsnow that's where it goes wrong,
and when it becomes secret, itbecomes taboo.
It becomes something you wantto hide from people.
So hiding is more important.
So I don't know, that's my viewand I really liked her
explanation.
I know she practices Buddhism,like I do, and I certainly
(07:20):
respect all religions because ofa Buddhist approach, and so
that's kind of what I wanted,because I try to be as authentic
as I can.
But if I'm really having a hardday, I'm not necessarily
sharing it on my podcast or withmy clients, but if there's a
little minor annoyances, sureI'm okay with that.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
So what led to this wake up call is what you're
asking.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I know I was long winded, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
That's all good, that's all good.
You know, what led to thewake-up call was our oldest
going off to college last fall.
We have three kids we have our18-year-old, who is now off at
school.
We have a 16-year-old son andwe have a nine-year-old daughter
who would very much like to bea teenager with all the
(08:08):
responsibilities and freedomsand joys that she thinks that
her older siblings have.
And so our oldest goes off tocollege and I thought that I was
ready for it, like oh my gosh,like this, this never ending
(08:31):
grind of raising three childrenhas ended, with her Like we, she
she's gone.
I mean, yeah, she still willneed us, obviously.
But there there was this endpoint and I just didn't
understand a lot of things youdon't understand until you
actually go through them, evenwhen you try to prepare yourself
right.
So there was this end point andshe was out the door and it was
this huge grief thing for herand for us and it just shook me
(08:57):
to the core and I thought, wow,there were so many things that I
wanted to do and wanted toteach her and that may not be
exactly fair or accurate,because she's one of those where
(09:18):
she's basically been raisingherself since age 13.
And, yeah, she's a highlyindependent young woman age 13.
And, yeah, she's a highlyindependent young woman.
And there was this reactionthat I thought, okay, yeah, all
right, she's off at college,she's figuring that out and she
knows that we are her safety net, but we've got these other two
(09:39):
kids and perhaps I could pay abit more attention to what needs
to happen in the here and now,instead of okay, just get
through the day, just getthrough the day, just keep up
with the grind, try to keep itall together.
It's like near catastrophic typethinking that I have often,
often, often struggled with, andso that was a huge part of it.
(10:00):
And then I'm very open aboutthis I have struggled with food
addiction, actual food addiction, binge eating disorder, dsm
level binge eating disordersince, well, for decades now,
and that had gotten to the pointwhere my husband let me know
that he was, he was scared, hewas going to lose me to an early
grave, and that was legit, thatwas a legit concern with as bad
(10:26):
as my binges could get.
And I realized, okay, wow, lifeis right now.
It's not okay, get this kidgraduated and get this kid out
of elementary school and blah,blah, blah.
Get to the next thing, and thenit'll feel okay, life is right
now and my health is right now.
(10:46):
And, yeah, I might put myself onthe back burner because I need
to take care of this for thepractice.
I need to take care of myclinicians, I need to, you know,
make sure that the bills aregetting paid and see after my
mom, and you know blah, blah,blah.
But if I fall apart in theprocess, how does that serve
anyone?
What good does that do?
(11:08):
And that is what will happen ifI don't make this a priority.
So that is my long answer toyour question.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, I like your answer in the sense that it was
so truthful and I appreciate thetransparency personally.
It brings me to a question Iask on every podcast so did you
end up going to therapy for it,or did you use your spirituality
or something else?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, both.
Yeah, I've come at it from amulti-pronged approach.
So I am in therapy and I amaddressing it spiritually and I
am asking people in my familyfor help.
You know, hey, this time of dayis my worst time of day.
I could really use somebodybeing around here at the house
(11:55):
so that I don't get into thefood, because if somebody else
is there then I can't binge insecret because somebody else is
there.
And just that motivation, justthat kind of structure and
support will be all I need tomake it through the critical
hours, and then I can go on withthe day.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well, I know that.
You know, being able to findthose strengths and finding
people that can help you isreally important.
And the spiritual aspect.
You know, I know in our fieldit's not always kosher to talk
about spirituality.
I'm very much open tospirituality.
I joke around and I'm arecovering Catholic going to
Catholic school the whole nineyards, but I do respect the
(12:37):
Catholic belief system and Icertainly see the validity of
all the spirituality that goeswith that.
What part of the spiritualitythat really helped you go
through this?
Because you talked about havingchecks and balances, so to
speak, having someone there.
But there's a lot ofdifficulties that go with that,
including how do you deal withit spiritually?
How did you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well, I grew up Catholic as well, and growing
up-.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
My deepest sympathies .
Speaker 3 (13:06):
The biggest struggle, I would say, in growing up
Catholic, and I don't even knowif this is as much the case
anymore, because I've hadCatholic clients who have just
presented the most beautifulpicture of faith to me beautiful
(13:26):
picture of faith to me and somany people.
When I was growing up in thechurch in the 80s and the 90s,
it often wasn't that way andwhat I perceived was that God
was this distant, judgmental,can't get close, can't please
there for it.
So since then, learning thatGod first of all is love, that
(13:53):
God doesn't hate me because Idon't eat perfectly, that God
has compassion for those whosuffer, even those who suffer in
addiction, even those whosuffer with an addiction that
can then lead to beingoverweight, and all of the I
mean it's gotten better but allof the societal judgment that
can go against those who areoverweight.
(14:15):
Like God is so loving andcompassionate, always, always,
always, always.
And so understanding that andreally holding on to this God
who will always be there and canwork through a variety of
different interventions andsupports and signs and beautiful
(14:43):
things, and that has helped meimmensely.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well, when you talked about, you know, god being this
all powerful, looking at us,looking for our mistakes and
punishing us, I think religioustrauma comes to mind when I hear
that, because I think that, formy perspective, once I started
developing my own spiritualityagain, being a Buddhist, you
know if there is a God, andthat's just because buddhism is
not based on godlike behavior.
(15:08):
Um, but I'm not opposed to god,probably existing he or her,
but, um, you know, I I thinkabout all the stuff that we used
to have don't do this, don't dothat.
And to me, that's when youstart bastardizing religion,
when you start saying this Godis not loving, he's going to
come down on you, he's going tobe wrathful.
I don't believe that, and Ithink that that's what the
(15:32):
trauma came from.
Is that I can't do anythingwrong or I'll go to hell, and
you're like, well, that's kindof like harsh, yeah, yeah,
absolutely so.
You know, when we started, wegot into a little bit of the
spiritual belief system.
I appreciate you talking aboutit, because I believe in that
firmly too.
Maybe we can talk about thethings that you know you've been
in.
You said you've been doing thisfor about 20 years.
(15:53):
I've been in this business for,as a therapist, over 20 years
and work in the nonprofit worldfor 25 plus years at this point
work in the nonprofit world for25 plus years at this point.
Is there things you wish youknew when you started that you
now know that, geez.
I want to tell people aboutthis.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yes, I would say first to that highly anxious
young woman, I would tell her, Iwould grab her by the shoulders
and I would say chill out.
Chill out, you're.
You're making things too big ofa deal, and I get it, because
(16:36):
there are a lot of unknowns andyou know you're starting out.
So you got to feel like you'regoing to have to prove yourself.
But I would say chill out,honey, you are enough, and the
people who need you will findyou.
And when bad things happen, itwon't be the end of the world.
And I would encourage her toget her own therapy to make sure
(17:01):
that she is in the best shapeas she goes along.
Secondly, I would say be open tobe, be open to and even looking
out for, multiple revenuestreams, because, yeah, you can,
you can make a decent buckdoing therapy, doing individual
(17:22):
therapy.
But if you're going to go thatthe typical route of taking
insurance, which means that your, your salary is set according
to what they pay, and or, youknow, having some self paid
clients, but it's mostlyinsurance then there's not a
whole lot of wiggle room there,and so what you'll want to do is
(17:46):
think about what else you'dlike to do.
Maybe it's in the mental healthfield, maybe it's coaching,
maybe it's speaking, maybe it'sgiving workshops or retreats or
whatever.
Maybe it's doing CEUs.
Maybe it's outside of themental health field, but be open
to that, because it may besomething that you need to do.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So what are you doing for those revenues?
That's passive income, as somepeople call it.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Well, stuff like this , because you're paying me for
this right.
Oh yeah, a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Checks in the mail but don't cash it till 2029.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
The checks in the mail.
That takes me back, okay, butdon't cash it till 20, 20 checks
in the mail, oh, that takes meback.
So people will use it.
So what?
What I am doing, I am puttingmyself out there more as a
speaker, as a speaker, as aworkshop giver.
That's.
That's really the main thing.
And in addition to, I'll tellyou, what I'm already doing is,
(18:44):
in addition to providingindividual therapy, I am also
fairly regularly doing crisisresponse work.
So a local company hassomething catastrophic that
happens and they, they bring insomebody like me to provide
support to their employees, andthat has been some fascinating,
fascinating work.
And so it's another, it'sanother revenue stream and it
(19:10):
definitely, you know, shakesthings up a bit and in a really
interesting way.
But yeah, mainly, mainly thespeaking.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And when you say crisis work, I mean I did.
I don't know if maybe you don'tknow, I've done crisis work for
15 years before this and Ienjoyed every second of it.
Honestly, there were some hardmoments here and there,
obviously, but ultimatelythere's days where I miss it.
Then I realized what I'd haveto do and I'm not so sure I want
(19:39):
to do crisis work.
What makes you fall in lovewith crisis work later on, Like
you didn't start off with that,obviously, so that's why.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And I didn't even know it was a thing.
I didn't know it was a thinguntil the company that hired
well, not technically hired me,that contracted with me.
They found me on PsychologyToday and I was like who are you
, what do you do?
What is this?
And it started around.
It started in the time of COVIDand so that was I had to be
(20:11):
independently licensed.
In Ohio we have the initialtier of licensure where you have
to be supervised and that lastsfor about two years if you're
working full time, and then youcan attain your independent
licensure and then that opensyou up to more things that you
can do.
So, yeah, this company finds meand what I enjoy the most is
going out there and being asupport to people who normally
(20:33):
would never set foot in atherapy office.
So people who you know theysolve their own problems, they
keep stuff to themselves,they're not comfortable reaching
out to a stranger.
A stranger, you know I don'tknow you.
Why would I talk to you?
Why would I share my stuff withyou?
I get that.
I get that that's that can bevery threatening and you know,
(20:57):
culturally that can be justsomething that is not done.
So when I'm out there andletting people know, you know,
normalizing stuff for them.
I'm like, hey, whatever you'refeeling, whatever you're going
through, whatever responseyou're noticing to this thing
that has happened, just becompassionate and just know that
(21:20):
it doesn't mean that you'reweak or that you're crazy or
that you're the worst.
It's your body showing you thatsomething's not okay and that's
okay, and I'm here to help, andI'm here to point you toward
further resources that you cantake advantage of.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
That's beautiful and I certainly work with first
responders, which has the samemotivation as you, basically
because they're not, they don'tneed the help.
I know that that's me beingfacetious here, but they tend to
be resistant to it and I'mhappy I'm able to reach out to
them.
And obviously you talked aboutyou know, enjoying that work.
(21:58):
There's something aboutshort-term therapy, so to speak
very short-term obviously, inthe crisis work that if someone
feels better within an hour ortwo, that's very, very
satisfying.
Yes, I think that withlong-term, like one of the
things I had to learn and shoutout to Bill if Bill is listening
, bill is also someone whoworked in a crisis team.
(22:21):
We were both like doing therapylike it was we solved your
problem, what's next?
And instead of letting peopleprocess, where the outpatient
therapy is a lot different,where there's a lot more process
, it may take time, it may takemore patience because you're not
just in the here and now,you're also looking at the past.
But anyway, that's that's why,like, I love that stuff.
(22:42):
Personally, I missed crisis work.
But no, please don't call mefor crisis work.
I miss it in principle only.
But one of the things thatbrings me up with the crisis
work is uncomfortableness,because sometimes it's hard to
do those things.
You can talk about crisis work,obviously, but do you have
(23:03):
anything that made youuncomfortable at times during
your career?
Oh, gosh.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I would say that the things that make me most
uncomfortable are situationswhere a client is struggling
with something that I'mstruggling with or a client is
going through something that islike something that I fear I
(23:31):
deal.
Not deal with that's not theright word.
I'm curious why I said that,but I work with a number of
injured workers from our Bureauof Workers' Compensation and
they are generally people whowere going about the job and
then one day, you know, fell orone day had something happen out
(23:55):
of the blue.
And now they have theselong-term disabilities, these
long-term injuries, painlimitations, and most of the
time I'm able to maintain thetherapeutic separation so that I
can be present with them andattend them well, but sometimes
I think, wow, what if thishappened?
(24:17):
And, as an added thing, ifthere's a part of me?
As an added thing, if there's apart of me, I'm an IFS-informed
therapist, so I think about myemotional system and the parts
of that system.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And for those who don't know what IFS stands for,
what does it say?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Internal Family System sorry.
So if there's a part of me thatcan't find fault with the
client for the injury that he orshe suffered, that's all the
more uncomfortable Because thisperson was just, you know,
working an office job and felldown some stairs, or was just
just something happened out ofthe blue, and now again has
these ongoing injuries.
(24:58):
Oh, my gosh, what if thathappened to me?
How would I deal with that?
Oh, that would just wreckeverything, if I had pain all
the time, or I couldn't sleep,or I couldn't move my body in
the way that my life needs it tomove, and oh, that's really
uncomfortable.
And so sometimes I'll noticethat and I likely need to give
(25:19):
some attention to those fears sothat again I can stay present
with my clients and serve themwell.
So those are the kinds ofthings that can from time to
time not often, but from time totime can can cause a little,
can cause a little reaction.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, I think that we you know, you know talk about
things I wish I knew.
One of the things I wish I knewwas those things happen in
therapy, especially if I couldtalk to the younger Steve.
It's part of like you know.
You will have some transference, you will have some projections
on your clients, you will havethose issues and you'll have
counter transference about otherstuff.
(25:57):
Being able to acknowledge thosethings is really hard and for
me, that's one of the thingsthat I wish I knew, because I
remember I think the shamekicked in pretty quickly because
we had someone come in for atraining and talked and had been
doing this for several years,and he talked about okay, how
many of you have found a clientattractive?
(26:17):
And I put my hand up and ofcourse I'm in a room a bunch of
women.
So they're like, oh my, the guydoes that, but no, you got to
be truthful about those.
And that's what he said.
He's like, oh, steve's the onlyone willing to be truthful.
But then I had the shame kick in.
I'm like, oh my god, why did I,you know, admit that?
And so it caused me to spiraldown, to never admit that, never
(26:38):
say anything.
You know that changed.
Obviously I'm 10 years.
10 took me about 10 years butwhat do I care if people are
upset with me anymore andeverything else.
But we tend to do that, I think, when we're working in a group
practice, we work in a nonprofitworld we start looking at other
people for our reaction andwhat's a good therapist and
(27:00):
what's not a good therapist, andwe tend to internalize that and
I wish I never internalizeeverything that people are doing
, because I had to be Steve andthat's the most important part.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yeah Well, I love how you responded in that meeting
and I hate how that plagued youfor, like the next decade.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I think it's like you said.
It's like you know, like for me, like when I talk about
spirituality and when I say Imay not believe in a God, most
people are like oh my God, youadmit that?
I'm like I didn't say he didn'texist or she didn't exist.
I just am a Buddhist andaccording to Buddhist beliefs,
you're dirt and that doesn'tmean that someone who believes
in God is bad or good.
(27:38):
Just means that they'redifferent and that's okay if
that works for theirspirituality.
I think that I started off withsuch a basis of catholicism
that, if you believe like us,you're one of us and if you're
not, you're against us.
And you know, changing thatmentality and we look at a
political realm and we look atother things, learning not to
(27:59):
think that way, is very, verybeneficial oh yes yeah, I think
that that's very, verybeneficial.
Oh, yes, yeah, I think thatthat's where, like the
difficulties you talked about,you know I'm sure that with the
crisis work too, sometimes youwant to just take them home.
You know I that's why I can'twork with the elderly, because
people say, well, why do youlike?
What's wrong with the elderly?
I want to take them all home, Iwant to take care of them, and
(28:19):
that's not fair to them.
That's a big transference issueand that's a big, so I don't
work with the elderly because ofthat.
Yeah, I hear you.
So you know, when you talkabout the crisis work too, I'm
assuming there's a lot of trauma.
I wonder if you can talk alittle bit about that experience
and you know you can address itnot only as a clinical
standpoint, but I love to hearthe spiritual standpoint too,
(28:41):
because I treat trauma with allof that, and so I wanted to hear
your opinion on how to treatthe trauma of individuals.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
So, with trauma, there's this wounding thing that
has happened right, and if it'son one of these crisis response
calls that I do, then it's thisrecently occurring accident
death of an employee justsomething catastrophic that has
(29:13):
happened, and there are multipleways to treat that.
Honestly, the way that I liketo treat specific instances is a
process where I have the havethe person establish a safe
place and then put themselves inthat safe place, and then I'll
(29:40):
get details about what happenedand then, with them in the safe
place, feeling calm, feelingokay, you know, enjoying the
ocean waves If they're at thebeach enjoying the birds.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
There's an ocean in Ohio.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Just learned something Just kidding.
Sorry, I had to say that, yeah,we're a little bit landlocked
here.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You got the Great Lakes, though they're pretty
cool.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
We do have a Great Lake, and so, with them in that
(30:29):
state, I will then and this iscalled rapid resolution therapy
I will then retell the memoryback to theming that incident,
while feeling calm and safe,basically rewires the brain and
neutralizes that traumaticresponse.
They can then think about itwith calmness and they can see
(30:50):
okay, yes, that happened, it washorrible, it was really
frightening, but it ended and Iam okay.
I am physically okay right now.
So that that is a specificintervention, but generally,
what I do is with internalfamily systems.
(31:10):
I will have the person first ofall get to know what their
emotional system is doing.
What are the parts that areactive?
Is it anxiety that keeps comingup?
Is it the inner critic that hasa lot to say about you and who
it thinks you are?
Is it depression that justwants to cancel everything and
(31:34):
just keep you down under a rock,because that feels a lot safer
and a lot more manageable?
Is it anger that has a lot ofraging to do?
Whatever it is, let's get toknow these parts and then the
ones that are the strongest, theones that are the loudest, the
most intense, let's see whatthey're reacting to and then we
(31:58):
get to the trauma because, let'ssay, anxiety is just off the
hook, consistently off the hook.
I'll say, okay, anxiety, whatkeeps you so stirred up, what
keeps you so protective of thisclient?
And the anxiety will show us awound and the wound will show up
as a version of the client,most likely from the past, maybe
(32:21):
from the present, but the woundwill represent something that
was traumatic for that client.
Maybe it's traumatic in the DSMsense, maybe it wasn't at that
level, but it was still verywounding and it still really
kept the person stuck in someway connected to that experience
(32:44):
.
So then we go through a processto bring healing, compassion,
love, restoration to that wound.
And then the anxiety sees oh,this client is not this
six-year-old little boy orsix-year-old little girl,
defenseless that this clientmade it through that and is
(33:04):
doing much better than I thought.
I don't have to be standingguard 24-7, freaking out about
every little thing.
So, according to internalfamily systems, that's how we do
it.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I love it.
And rapid resolution.
I've heard a lot about it.
I'm interested in it.
Can you just talk about it alittle more, because I really
like the concept, but I don'tthink I have a grasp enough to
actually say it.
And yes, this is another thingI wish little Steve should have
known when he started therapyAdmit when you don't know
(33:38):
something.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, so the rapid resolution therapy, I want to
give credit.
I learned it out of a bookcalled the therapeutic aha by
Courtney Armstrong, and thatbook had a number of different
interventions that were just sorefreshing and this one I found
(33:59):
the most fascinating.
And it all has to do withneuroplasticity, because the
brain can be rewired.
We may think and feel,certainly feel that whatever
we're struggling with accordingto a mindset issue, you know
something that is having to dowith the way that we think.
We may think and feel thatwe're always going to struggle
(34:21):
with that, that that's justgoing to be hardwired and we
can't do anything about it.
And yeah, when we have repeatedbehaviors, when we have
repeated thoughts, when we haverepeated coping mechanisms,
those grooves are like the GrandCanyon, those neural pathways
are quite deep and quiteextensive, but we can make new
(34:42):
ones.
We can teach an old dog newtricks.
So the way that we do that iswe bring some peace to whatever
is driving those old and at onetime effective in a way, but
then in the grand scheme ofthings ineffective coping
(35:04):
mechanisms and we can insteadforge a new path.
And it might be like thetiniest little baby stream
compared to the Grand Canyon,but it can be done if we address
what was driving those oldbehaviors and thought patterns
and coping mechanisms in thefirst place.
(35:25):
So it's, you know, you got todeal with that.
But then also add the new, havesomething new, have new coping
mechanisms to deal with thedifficulties that come, so that
we don't fall back into thatvast chasm of the not so healthy
(35:47):
ways of dealing.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Well, you know, what's funny is I've had that
book the Therapeutic Ha Ha on myshelf for over 10 years now.
I probably should read it now.
So yeah, I do know the book, soI will definitely look at it.
The other part, too, is youknow you talked about a lot of
the stuff that you kind of do.
You know you're going to beordained soon, right, as a
(36:09):
pastor.
Is there other stuff thatyou're doing right now where
people can like hear you, reachyou or anything else like that?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I would say the main thing would be to check out my
website, jennifer Schrappe dotcom.
I do have Instagram that I'mslowly getting re going.
Part of my own stuckness wasnot doing a whole lot on
(36:40):
Instagram and so that is slowlychanging and, yeah, those would
be the best places to see what'sup.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You know I'm going to sound like a young man, but
what's your handle on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Jennifer Schrappe, lpcc.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So, in case people want to go and I know that you
do a lot of different things Isthere a particular thing that
you want to promote here?
Because I want people to go andget to know you and really work
with you, because I reallyenjoyed my conversation with you
Definitely like what you putout in the world, so wanted to
ask you if there was anything inparticular other than the
website.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
You know, the website and or Instagram would be the
best places to be looking forthis, but I'm also about to
launch an online course andcohort called Heal your Money,
(37:33):
stuff and Calm your Life, and ithas to do with the intersection
of the emotional and thefinancial.
I've teamed up with a moneycoach and I bring the emotional
component again, ifs informed,and he brings the financial
component and we help people who, despite every effort, they
keep repeating the same moneypatterns.
(37:55):
And again, it's a zero shame,it's a zero condemnation place.
It's hey, let's just get toknow what's going on inside.
Do you have an impulsive spenderpart?
Do you have this rebelliouspart that will not be put on a
budget because that feels likesomebody else is trying to
control you and it's reacting tosomething something big or
(38:20):
maybe not something big, butit's reacting to something.
Do we have this super criticalpart that just rips you a new
one when you spend off budgetand so on and so forth?
So, again, let's get to knowyour system and let's come up
with some healthier financialmanagement patterns that will
really calm your life.
(38:40):
So many people struggle in thisarea, so this is something that
I'm very excited about and it'sabout to be launched.
I don't have a date, butinformation on that will be on
my website as well as onInstagram.
Heal your money stuff.
Calm your life.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And definitely as this goes on in March, please
keep on checking our website,please keep on looking at
different things and I reallyappreciate you, jennifer, really
enjoyed our conversation and Ihope people go check out
everything that you do.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah, this has been great.
Thanks for having me.
I've enjoyed our time check outeverything that you do.
Yeah, this has been great.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I've enjoyed our time .
Thank you so much.
Well, this concludes episode195.
Jennifer Schrappe, I hope I gotit right.
Thank you again, reallyappreciate that.
And for episode 196, we'regoing to go talk about the first
responder treatment.
It's going to be a co-hosted,but it's not co-hosted, actually
hosted by Lisa Mustard.
If you listen to it and go toLisa's website, you can actually
get one CU for doing that class.
(39:38):
So I can't wait for you tolisten to that and I hope you
join me then.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(40:05):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and
(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Bienvenue aux épisodes de transition.
Welcome to the transitionalepisodes of Finding your Way
Resilience, development andAction.
My name is Steve Bisson.
We're going to be doing thisfor a few weeks until we get to
the full rebranding, which isobviously going to be Resilience
, development and Action.
I just want to make sure thatpeople follow me throughout
these changes, so that's why I'mdoing it that way.
(01:00):
I hope you listen to episode 194.
My co-hosts Courtney Romanowskiand Lisa Monka.
It was a great episode.
We talked about dance movement,so please go back and listen to
it.
But episode 195 will be withsomeone again.
I choose all the people withdifferent last names, so I hope
I get it right.
Jennifer Schrappi I think that'show we pronounce it.
(01:21):
I'll probably mess it up.
Jennifer is a clinicalcounselor, supervisor and
director of ChrysalisEnterprises Counseling Practice
in Columbus Ohio.
She's been in the field forover 20 years, specializing in
trauma.
She has a special place in ourheart for the hurting, having
been struck by her own stuff formany years.
She loves to help people live,work and love without being
(01:41):
ruled by their emotions.
So I really enjoyed meeting hervia email and I'm hoping that
the interview goes well.
And here's the interviewGetfreeai.
Yes, you've heard me talk aboutit previously in other episodes
, but I'm going to talk about itagain because GetFreeai is
(02:04):
justa great service.
Imagine being able to payattention to your clients all
the time, instead of writingnotes and making sure that the
note's going to sound good andhow are you going to write that
note, and things like that.
Getfreeai liberates you frommaking sure that you're writing
what the client is saying,because it is keeping track of
(02:25):
what you're saying and willcreate, after the end of every
session, a progress note.
But it goes above and beyondthat.
Not only does it create aprogress note, it also gives you
suggestions for goals, givesyou even a mental status if
you've asked questions aroundthat, as well as being able to
write a letter for your clientto know what you talked about.
So that's the great, greatthing.
(02:47):
It saves me time, it saves me alot of aggravation and it just
speeds up the progress noteprocess so well.
And for $99 a month.
I know that that's nothing.
That's worth my time, that'sworth my money.
You know, the best part of ittoo is that if you want to go
(03:07):
and put in the code steve50 whenyou get the service at the
checkout code is steve50, youget 50 off your first month and
if you get a whole year, yousave a whole 10 for the whole
year.
So, again, steve50, at checkoutfor getfreeai, we'll give you
50 off for the first month and,like I said, get a full year,
(03:29):
get 10 off, get free fromwriting notes, get freed from
always scribbling while you'retalking to a client and just
paying attention to your client.
So they win out, you win out,everybody wins, and I think that
this is the greatest thing.
And if you're up to a pointwhere you got to change a
treatment plan, well, the goalsare generated for you.
So, getfreeai code, steve50 tosave $50 on your first month.
(03:58):
Well, hi everyone and welcome tothe premiere episode of Finding
your Way Resilience,development and Action.
Yes, this is the transition.
It's the premiere episode ofFinding your Way Resilience,
development and Action.
Yes, this is the transition.
It's the premiere episode andI'm happy to have a guest who
has a lot of experience withtrauma.
We got in touch online throughemail and, very happy I read her
bio.
I was very excited to have heron, but Jennifer Schrappi, did I
(04:19):
get it right?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yes, just about Schrappi.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Schrappi, fine, all right.
Well, welcome to Finding yourWay to Resilience Development in
Action.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yes, thank you for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So you get to be the first one to be on the
transitional podcast until itgets to the new name.
So congratulations on that.
That's exciting and obviously Iread your bio, went to your
website and everything.
Very excited that you're here,but my audience doesn't know who
you are, so maybe you canintroduce yourself.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Absolutely so.
Yes, I am Jennifer Schrappe andI am a clinical counselor in
Columbus, ohio.
(05:09):
I've been in the field for alittle over 20 years.
I run a practice calledChrysalis Enterprises of Ohio.
We have a team of 11 cliniciansand I also do speaking and some
other mental health relatedservices around the community
crisis response and so on and soforth.
I'm also a pastor about to beordained in the Church of the
Nazarene, and so a lot of peoplecome see me because they want
to be seen by a Christiantherapist.
(05:31):
But obviously I'm not in thisfield to impose my beliefs on
anyone, so I delight in walkingalongside the hurting and
helping them find hope andhealing Well, do you have time
for yourself once in a while?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I mean everything you just said.
I'm like do you do anything forfun?
I mean Jesus.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
You know that has been a big, needed wake up call.
To be honest, I like to be asauthentic as I can with you know
healthy boundaries around thatauthenticity and lately I've had
to learn to walk alongside thewisdom of you know therapists.
(06:16):
Heal thyself.
Because I was my own wellnesswas so much on the back burner
for a long, long time and guesswhat?
That wasn't working.
I really thought it would.
I tried it over and over andover and it was not working, and
so finally I had to really givesome attention.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
So what caused you to get to that point you talked
about.
You know, authenticity is whatI believe in too, and if you
want to know, if you want toknow my definition of being
authentic and being truthful, Igo back to Alanis Morissette.
She said this on a iTunesspecial that she did it's like
there's a difference betweenauthenticity and secrecy.
(06:58):
Being authentic is beingyourself and you're allowed to
have some privacy behind that.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But if you start having secretsnow that's where it goes wrong,
and when it becomes secret, itbecomes taboo.
It becomes something you wantto hide from people.
So hiding is more important.
So I don't know, that's my viewand I really liked her
explanation.
I know she practices Buddhism,like I do, and I certainly
(07:20):
respect all religions because ofa Buddhist approach, and so
that's kind of what I wanted,because I try to be as authentic
as I can.
But if I'm really having a hardday, I'm not necessarily
sharing it on my podcast or withmy clients, but if there's a
little minor annoyances, sureI'm okay with that.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
So what led to this wake up call is what you're
asking.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I know I was long winded, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
That's all good, that's all good.
You know, what led to thewake-up call was our oldest
going off to college last fall.
We have three kids we have our18-year-old, who is now off at
school.
We have a 16-year-old son andwe have a nine-year-old daughter
who would very much like to bea teenager with all the
(08:08):
responsibilities and freedomsand joys that she thinks that
her older siblings have.
And so our oldest goes off tocollege and I thought that I was
ready for it, like oh my gosh,like this, this never ending
(08:31):
grind of raising three childrenhas ended, with her Like we, she
she's gone.
I mean, yeah, she still willneed us, obviously.
But there there was this endpoint and I just didn't
understand a lot of things youdon't understand until you
actually go through them, evenwhen you try to prepare yourself
right.
So there was this end point andshe was out the door and it was
this huge grief thing for herand for us and it just shook me
(08:57):
to the core and I thought, wow,there were so many things that I
wanted to do and wanted toteach her and that may not be
exactly fair or accurate,because she's one of those where
(09:18):
she's basically been raisingherself since age 13.
And, yeah, she's a highlyindependent young woman age 13.
And, yeah, she's a highlyindependent young woman.
And there was this reactionthat I thought, okay, yeah, all
right, she's off at college,she's figuring that out and she
knows that we are her safety net, but we've got these other two
(09:39):
kids and perhaps I could pay abit more attention to what needs
to happen in the here and now,instead of okay, just get
through the day, just getthrough the day, just keep up
with the grind, try to keep itall together.
It's like near catastrophic typethinking that I have often,
often, often struggled with, andso that was a huge part of it.
(10:00):
And then I'm very open aboutthis I have struggled with food
addiction, actual food addiction, binge eating disorder, dsm
level binge eating disordersince, well, for decades now,
and that had gotten to the pointwhere my husband let me know
that he was, he was scared, hewas going to lose me to an early
grave, and that was legit, thatwas a legit concern with as bad
(10:26):
as my binges could get.
And I realized, okay, wow, lifeis right now.
It's not okay, get this kidgraduated and get this kid out
of elementary school and blah,blah, blah.
Get to the next thing, and thenit'll feel okay, life is right
now and my health is right now.
(10:46):
And, yeah, I might put myself onthe back burner because I need
to take care of this for thepractice.
I need to take care of myclinicians, I need to, you know,
make sure that the bills aregetting paid and see after my
mom, and you know blah, blah,blah.
But if I fall apart in theprocess, how does that serve
anyone?
What good does that do?
(11:08):
And that is what will happen ifI don't make this a priority.
So that is my long answer toyour question.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, I like your answer in the sense that it was
so truthful and I appreciate thetransparency personally.
It brings me to a question Iask on every podcast so did you
end up going to therapy for it,or did you use your spirituality
or something else?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Yeah, both.
Yeah, I've come at it from amulti-pronged approach.
So I am in therapy and I amaddressing it spiritually and I
am asking people in my familyfor help.
You know, hey, this time of dayis my worst time of day.
I could really use somebodybeing around here at the house
(11:55):
so that I don't get into thefood, because if somebody else
is there then I can't binge insecret because somebody else is
there.
And just that motivation, justthat kind of structure and
support will be all I need tomake it through the critical
hours, and then I can go on withthe day.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Well, I know that.
You know, being able to findthose strengths and finding
people that can help you isreally important.
And the spiritual aspect.
You know, I know in our fieldit's not always kosher to talk
about spirituality.
I'm very much open tospirituality.
I joke around and I'm arecovering Catholic going to
Catholic school the whole nineyards, but I do respect the
(12:37):
Catholic belief system and Icertainly see the validity of
all the spirituality that goeswith that.
What part of the spiritualitythat really helped you go
through this?
Because you talked about havingchecks and balances, so to
speak, having someone there.
But there's a lot ofdifficulties that go with that,
including how do you deal withit spiritually?
How did you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Well, I grew up Catholic as well, and growing
up-.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
My deepest sympathies .
Speaker 3 (13:06):
The biggest struggle, I would say, in growing up
Catholic, and I don't even knowif this is as much the case
anymore, because I've hadCatholic clients who have just
presented the most beautifulpicture of faith to me beautiful
(13:26):
picture of faith to me and somany people.
When I was growing up in thechurch in the 80s and the 90s,
it often wasn't that way andwhat I perceived was that God
was this distant, judgmental,can't get close, can't please
there for it.
So since then, learning thatGod first of all is love, that
(13:53):
God doesn't hate me because Idon't eat perfectly, that God
has compassion for those whosuffer, even those who suffer in
addiction, even those whosuffer with an addiction that
can then lead to beingoverweight, and all of the I
mean it's gotten better but allof the societal judgment that
can go against those who areoverweight.
(14:15):
Like God is so loving andcompassionate, always, always,
always, always.
And so understanding that andreally holding on to this God
who will always be there and canwork through a variety of
different interventions andsupports and signs and beautiful
(14:43):
things, and that has helped meimmensely.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Well, when you talked about, you know, god being this
all powerful, looking at us,looking for our mistakes and
punishing us, I think religioustrauma comes to mind when I hear
that, because I think that, formy perspective, once I started
developing my own spiritualityagain, being a Buddhist, you
know if there is a God, andthat's just because buddhism is
not based on godlike behavior.
(15:08):
Um, but I'm not opposed to god,probably existing he or her,
but, um, you know, I I thinkabout all the stuff that we used
to have don't do this, don't dothat.
And to me, that's when youstart bastardizing religion,
when you start saying this Godis not loving, he's going to
come down on you, he's going tobe wrathful.
I don't believe that, and Ithink that that's what the
(15:32):
trauma came from.
Is that I can't do anythingwrong or I'll go to hell, and
you're like, well, that's kindof like harsh, yeah, yeah,
absolutely so.
You know, when we started, wegot into a little bit of the
spiritual belief system.
I appreciate you talking aboutit, because I believe in that
firmly too.
Maybe we can talk about thethings that you know you've been
in.
You said you've been doing thisfor about 20 years.
(15:53):
I've been in this business for,as a therapist, over 20 years
and work in the nonprofit worldfor 25 plus years at this point
work in the nonprofit world for25 plus years at this point.
Is there things you wish youknew when you started that you
now know that, geez.
I want to tell people aboutthis.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yes, I would say first to that highly anxious
young woman, I would tell her, Iwould grab her by the shoulders
and I would say chill out.
Chill out, you're.
You're making things too big ofa deal, and I get it, because
(16:36):
there are a lot of unknowns andyou know you're starting out.
So you got to feel like you'regoing to have to prove yourself.
But I would say chill out,honey, you are enough, and the
people who need you will findyou.
And when bad things happen, itwon't be the end of the world.
And I would encourage her toget her own therapy to make sure
(17:01):
that she is in the best shapeas she goes along.
Secondly, I would say be open tobe, be open to and even looking
out for, multiple revenuestreams, because, yeah, you can,
you can make a decent buckdoing therapy, doing individual
(17:22):
therapy.
But if you're going to go thatthe typical route of taking
insurance, which means that your, your salary is set according
to what they pay, and or, youknow, having some self paid
clients, but it's mostlyinsurance then there's not a
whole lot of wiggle room there,and so what you'll want to do is
(17:46):
think about what else you'dlike to do.
Maybe it's in the mental healthfield, maybe it's coaching,
maybe it's speaking, maybe it'sgiving workshops or retreats or
whatever.
Maybe it's doing CEUs.
Maybe it's outside of themental health field, but be open
to that, because it may besomething that you need to do.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
So what are you doing for those revenues?
That's passive income, as somepeople call it.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Well, stuff like this , because you're paying me for
this right.
Oh yeah, a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Checks in the mail but don't cash it till 2029.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
The checks in the mail.
That takes me back, okay, butdon't cash it till 20, 20 checks
in the mail, oh, that takes meback.
So people will use it.
So what?
What I am doing, I am puttingmyself out there more as a
speaker, as a speaker, as aworkshop giver.
That's.
That's really the main thing.
And in addition to, I'll tellyou, what I'm already doing is,
(18:44):
in addition to providingindividual therapy, I am also
fairly regularly doing crisisresponse work.
So a local company hassomething catastrophic that
happens and they, they bring insomebody like me to provide
support to their employees, andthat has been some fascinating,
fascinating work.
And so it's another, it'sanother revenue stream and it
(19:10):
definitely, you know, shakesthings up a bit and in a really
interesting way.
But yeah, mainly, mainly thespeaking.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
And when you say crisis work, I mean I did.
I don't know if maybe you don'tknow, I've done crisis work for
15 years before this and Ienjoyed every second of it.
Honestly, there were some hardmoments here and there,
obviously, but ultimatelythere's days where I miss it.
Then I realized what I'd haveto do and I'm not so sure I want
(19:39):
to do crisis work.
What makes you fall in lovewith crisis work later on, Like
you didn't start off with that,obviously, so that's why.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
And I didn't even know it was a thing.
I didn't know it was a thinguntil the company that hired
well, not technically hired me,that contracted with me.
They found me on PsychologyToday and I was like who are you
, what do you do?
What is this?
And it started around.
It started in the time of COVIDand so that was I had to be
(20:11):
independently licensed.
In Ohio we have the initialtier of licensure where you have
to be supervised and that lastsfor about two years if you're
working full time, and then youcan attain your independent
licensure and then that opensyou up to more things that you
can do.
So, yeah, this company finds meand what I enjoy the most is
going out there and being asupport to people who normally
(20:33):
would never set foot in atherapy office.
So people who you know theysolve their own problems, they
keep stuff to themselves,they're not comfortable reaching
out to a stranger.
A stranger, you know I don'tknow you.
Why would I talk to you?
Why would I share my stuff withyou?
I get that.
I get that that's that can bevery threatening and you know,
(20:57):
culturally that can be justsomething that is not done.
So when I'm out there andletting people know, you know,
normalizing stuff for them.
I'm like, hey, whatever you'refeeling, whatever you're going
through, whatever responseyou're noticing to this thing
that has happened, just becompassionate and just know that
(21:20):
it doesn't mean that you'reweak or that you're crazy or
that you're the worst.
It's your body showing you thatsomething's not okay and that's
okay, and I'm here to help, andI'm here to point you toward
further resources that you cantake advantage of.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
That's beautiful and I certainly work with first
responders, which has the samemotivation as you, basically
because they're not, they don'tneed the help.
I know that that's me beingfacetious here, but they tend to
be resistant to it and I'mhappy I'm able to reach out to
them.
And obviously you talked aboutyou know, enjoying that work.
(21:58):
There's something aboutshort-term therapy, so to speak
very short-term obviously, inthe crisis work that if someone
feels better within an hour ortwo, that's very, very
satisfying.
Yes, I think that withlong-term, like one of the
things I had to learn and shoutout to Bill if Bill is listening
, bill is also someone whoworked in a crisis team.
(22:21):
We were both like doing therapylike it was we solved your
problem, what's next?
And instead of letting peopleprocess, where the outpatient
therapy is a lot different,where there's a lot more process
, it may take time, it may takemore patience because you're not
just in the here and now,you're also looking at the past.
But anyway, that's that's why,like, I love that stuff.
(22:42):
Personally, I missed crisis work.
But no, please don't call mefor crisis work.
I miss it in principle only.
But one of the things thatbrings me up with the crisis
work is uncomfortableness,because sometimes it's hard to
do those things.
You can talk about crisis work,obviously, but do you have
(23:03):
anything that made youuncomfortable at times during
your career?
Oh, gosh.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
I would say that the things that make me most
uncomfortable are situationswhere a client is struggling
with something that I'mstruggling with or a client is
going through something that islike something that I fear I
(23:31):
deal.
Not deal with that's not theright word.
I'm curious why I said that,but I work with a number of
injured workers from our Bureauof Workers' Compensation and
they are generally people whowere going about the job and
then one day, you know, fell orone day had something happen out
(23:55):
of the blue.
And now they have theselong-term disabilities, these
long-term injuries, painlimitations, and most of the
time I'm able to maintain thetherapeutic separation so that I
can be present with them andattend them well, but sometimes
I think, wow, what if thishappened?
(24:17):
And, as an added thing, ifthere's a part of me?
As an added thing, if there's apart of me, I'm an IFS-informed
therapist, so I think about myemotional system and the parts
of that system.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And for those who don't know what IFS stands for,
what does it say?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Internal Family System sorry.
So if there's a part of me thatcan't find fault with the
client for the injury that he orshe suffered, that's all the
more uncomfortable Because thisperson was just, you know,
working an office job and felldown some stairs, or was just
just something happened out ofthe blue, and now again has
these ongoing injuries.
(24:58):
Oh, my gosh, what if thathappened to me?
How would I deal with that?
Oh, that would just wreckeverything, if I had pain all
the time, or I couldn't sleep,or I couldn't move my body in
the way that my life needs it tomove, and oh, that's really
uncomfortable.
And so sometimes I'll noticethat and I likely need to give
(25:19):
some attention to those fears sothat again I can stay present
with my clients and serve themwell.
So those are the kinds ofthings that can from time to
time not often, but from time totime can can cause a little,
can cause a little reaction.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, I think that we you know, you know talk about
things I wish I knew.
One of the things I wish I knewwas those things happen in
therapy, especially if I couldtalk to the younger Steve.
It's part of like you know.
You will have some transference, you will have some projections
on your clients, you will havethose issues and you'll have
counter transference about otherstuff.
(25:57):
Being able to acknowledge thosethings is really hard and for
me, that's one of the thingsthat I wish I knew, because I
remember I think the shamekicked in pretty quickly because
we had someone come in for atraining and talked and had been
doing this for several years,and he talked about okay, how
many of you have found a clientattractive?
(26:17):
And I put my hand up and ofcourse I'm in a room a bunch of
women.
So they're like, oh my, the guydoes that, but no, you got to
be truthful about those.
And that's what he said.
He's like, oh, steve's the onlyone willing to be truthful.
But then I had the shame kick in.
I'm like, oh my god, why did I,you know, admit that?
And so it caused me to spiraldown, to never admit that, never
(26:38):
say anything.
You know that changed.
Obviously I'm 10 years.
10 took me about 10 years butwhat do I care if people are
upset with me anymore andeverything else.
But we tend to do that, I think, when we're working in a group
practice, we work in a nonprofitworld we start looking at other
people for our reaction andwhat's a good therapist and
(27:00):
what's not a good therapist, andwe tend to internalize that and
I wish I never internalizeeverything that people are doing
, because I had to be Steve andthat's the most important part.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
Yeah Well, I love how you responded in that meeting
and I hate how that plagued youfor, like the next decade.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I think it's like you said.
It's like you know, like for me, like when I talk about
spirituality and when I say Imay not believe in a God, most
people are like oh my God, youadmit that?
I'm like I didn't say he didn'texist or she didn't exist.
I just am a Buddhist andaccording to Buddhist beliefs,
you're dirt and that doesn'tmean that someone who believes
in God is bad or good.
(27:38):
Just means that they'redifferent and that's okay if
that works for theirspirituality.
I think that I started off withsuch a basis of catholicism
that, if you believe like us,you're one of us and if you're
not, you're against us.
And you know, changing thatmentality and we look at a
political realm and we look atother things, learning not to
(27:59):
think that way, is very, verybeneficial oh yes yeah, I think
that that's very, verybeneficial.
Oh, yes, yeah, I think thatthat's where, like the
difficulties you talked about,you know I'm sure that with the
crisis work too, sometimes youwant to just take them home.
You know I that's why I can'twork with the elderly, because
people say, well, why do youlike?
What's wrong with the elderly?
I want to take them all home, Iwant to take care of them, and
(28:19):
that's not fair to them.
That's a big transference issueand that's a big, so I don't
work with the elderly because ofthat.
Yeah, I hear you.
So you know, when you talkabout the crisis work too, I'm
assuming there's a lot of trauma.
I wonder if you can talk alittle bit about that experience
and you know you can address itnot only as a clinical
standpoint, but I love to hearthe spiritual standpoint too,
(28:41):
because I treat trauma with allof that, and so I wanted to hear
your opinion on how to treatthe trauma of individuals.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
So, with trauma, there's this wounding thing that
has happened right, and if it'son one of these crisis response
calls that I do, then it's thisrecently occurring accident
death of an employee justsomething catastrophic that has
(29:13):
happened, and there are multipleways to treat that.
Honestly, the way that I liketo treat specific instances is a
process where I have the havethe person establish a safe
place and then put themselves inthat safe place, and then I'll
(29:40):
get details about what happenedand then, with them in the safe
place, feeling calm, feelingokay, you know, enjoying the
ocean waves If they're at thebeach enjoying the birds.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
There's an ocean in Ohio.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Just learned something Just kidding.
Sorry, I had to say that, yeah,we're a little bit landlocked
here.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You got the Great Lakes, though they're pretty
cool.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
We do have a Great Lake, and so, with them in that
(30:29):
state, I will then and this iscalled rapid resolution therapy
I will then retell the memoryback to theming that incident,
while feeling calm and safe,basically rewires the brain and
neutralizes that traumaticresponse.
They can then think about itwith calmness and they can see
(30:50):
okay, yes, that happened, it washorrible, it was really
frightening, but it ended and Iam okay.
I am physically okay right now.
So that that is a specificintervention, but generally,
what I do is with internalfamily systems.
(31:10):
I will have the person first ofall get to know what their
emotional system is doing.
What are the parts that areactive?
Is it anxiety that keeps comingup?
Is it the inner critic that hasa lot to say about you and who
it thinks you are?
Is it depression that justwants to cancel everything and
(31:34):
just keep you down under a rock,because that feels a lot safer
and a lot more manageable?
Is it anger that has a lot ofraging to do?
Whatever it is, let's get toknow these parts and then the
ones that are the strongest, theones that are the loudest, the
most intense, let's see whatthey're reacting to and then we
(31:58):
get to the trauma because, let'ssay, anxiety is just off the
hook, consistently off the hook.
I'll say, okay, anxiety, whatkeeps you so stirred up, what
keeps you so protective of thisclient?
And the anxiety will show us awound and the wound will show up
as a version of the client,most likely from the past, maybe
(32:21):
from the present, but the woundwill represent something that
was traumatic for that client.
Maybe it's traumatic in the DSMsense, maybe it wasn't at that
level, but it was still verywounding and it still really
kept the person stuck in someway connected to that experience
(32:44):
.
So then we go through a processto bring healing, compassion,
love, restoration to that wound.
And then the anxiety sees oh,this client is not this
six-year-old little boy orsix-year-old little girl,
defenseless that this clientmade it through that and is
(33:04):
doing much better than I thought.
I don't have to be standingguard 24-7, freaking out about
every little thing.
So, according to internalfamily systems, that's how we do
it.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I love it.
And rapid resolution.
I've heard a lot about it.
I'm interested in it.
Can you just talk about it alittle more, because I really
like the concept, but I don'tthink I have a grasp enough to
actually say it.
And yes, this is another thingI wish little Steve should have
known when he started therapyAdmit when you don't know
(33:38):
something.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, so the rapid resolution therapy, I want to
give credit.
I learned it out of a bookcalled the therapeutic aha by
Courtney Armstrong, and thatbook had a number of different
interventions that were just sorefreshing and this one I found
(33:59):
the most fascinating.
And it all has to do withneuroplasticity, because the
brain can be rewired.
We may think and feel,certainly feel that whatever
we're struggling with accordingto a mindset issue, you know
something that is having to dowith the way that we think.
We may think and feel thatwe're always going to struggle
(34:21):
with that, that that's justgoing to be hardwired and we
can't do anything about it.
And yeah, when we have repeatedbehaviors, when we have
repeated thoughts, when we haverepeated coping mechanisms,
those grooves are like the GrandCanyon, those neural pathways
are quite deep and quiteextensive, but we can make new
(34:42):
ones.
We can teach an old dog newtricks.
So the way that we do that iswe bring some peace to whatever
is driving those old and at onetime effective in a way, but
then in the grand scheme ofthings ineffective coping
(35:04):
mechanisms and we can insteadforge a new path.
And it might be like thetiniest little baby stream
compared to the Grand Canyon,but it can be done if we address
what was driving those oldbehaviors and thought patterns
and coping mechanisms in thefirst place.
(35:25):
So it's, you know, you got todeal with that.
But then also add the new, havesomething new, have new coping
mechanisms to deal with thedifficulties that come, so that
we don't fall back into thatvast chasm of the not so healthy
(35:47):
ways of dealing.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Well, you know, what's funny is I've had that
book the Therapeutic Ha Ha on myshelf for over 10 years now.
I probably should read it now.
So yeah, I do know the book, soI will definitely look at it.
The other part, too, is youknow you talked about a lot of
the stuff that you kind of do.
You know you're going to beordained soon, right, as a
(36:09):
pastor.
Is there other stuff thatyou're doing right now where
people can like hear you, reachyou or anything else like that?
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I would say the main thing would be to check out my
website, jennifer Schrappe dotcom.
I do have Instagram that I'mslowly getting re going.
Part of my own stuckness wasnot doing a whole lot on
(36:40):
Instagram and so that is slowlychanging and, yeah, those would
be the best places to see what'sup.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
You know I'm going to sound like a young man, but
what's your handle on Instagram?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Jennifer Schrappe, lpcc.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
So, in case people want to go and I know that you
do a lot of different things Isthere a particular thing that
you want to promote here?
Because I want people to go andget to know you and really work
with you, because I reallyenjoyed my conversation with you
Definitely like what you putout in the world, so wanted to
ask you if there was anything inparticular other than the
website.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
You know, the website and or Instagram would be the
best places to be looking forthis, but I'm also about to
launch an online course andcohort called Heal your Money,
(37:33):
stuff and Calm your Life, and ithas to do with the intersection
of the emotional and thefinancial.
I've teamed up with a moneycoach and I bring the emotional
component again, ifs informed,and he brings the financial
component and we help people who, despite every effort, they
keep repeating the same moneypatterns.
(37:55):
And again, it's a zero shame,it's a zero condemnation place.
It's hey, let's just get toknow what's going on inside.
Do you have an impulsive spenderpart?
Do you have this rebelliouspart that will not be put on a
budget because that feels likesomebody else is trying to
control you and it's reacting tosomething something big or
(38:20):
maybe not something big, butit's reacting to something.
Do we have this super criticalpart that just rips you a new
one when you spend off budgetand so on and so forth?
So, again, let's get to knowyour system and let's come up
with some healthier financialmanagement patterns that will
really calm your life.
(38:40):
So many people struggle in thisarea, so this is something that
I'm very excited about and it'sabout to be launched.
I don't have a date, butinformation on that will be on
my website as well as onInstagram.
Heal your money stuff.
Calm your life.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And definitely as this goes on in March, please
keep on checking our website,please keep on looking at
different things and I reallyappreciate you, jennifer, really
enjoyed our conversation and Ihope people go check out
everything that you do.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah, this has been great.
Thanks for having me.
I've enjoyed our time check outeverything that you do.
Yeah, this has been great.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I've enjoyed our time .
Thank you so much.
Well, this concludes episode195.
Jennifer Schrappe, I hope I gotit right.
Thank you again, reallyappreciate that.
And for episode 196, we'regoing to go talk about the first
responder treatment.
It's going to be a co-hosted,but it's not co-hosted, actually
hosted by Lisa Mustard.
If you listen to it and go toLisa's website, you can actually
get one CU for doing that class.
(39:38):
So I can't wait for you tolisten to that and I hope you
join me then.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(40:05):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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