April 2, 2025 • 19 mins
Therapy has long been shrouded in mystery, leaving many to wonder what actually happens once that office door closes. Steve Bisson pulls back the curtain on these therapeutic misconceptions with refreshing candor and humor. Gone are the days of viewing therapists as perfect, emotionless professionals who maintain rigid boundaries and never reveal their humanity.
Swearing in therapy? Absolutely appropriate. As Steve explains, nothing says authenticity like a well-placed expletive that truly captures the emotion behind an experience. When clients and therapists can express themselves genuinely without filtering, real therapeutic work begins. The goal isn't pristine language but creating a space where raw emotions and experiences can be safely explored.
Perhaps most revealing is Steve's assertion that therapists are fundamentally human. They think about clients between sessions, sometimes struggle with their own life challenges, and yes – many see therapists themselves. This humanity doesn't compromise their effectiveness but enhances it. When a therapist acknowledges their imperfections, it gives clients permission to embrace their own. There's something profoundly healing about knowing your therapist understands struggle not just academically but personally.
Making mistakes is another area where therapy myths need debunking. Good therapists make mistakes, acknowledge them, and learn from them. Whether it's forgetting a name or misunderstanding a situation, these moments become opportunities to model healthy responses to imperfection. As Steve shares from his own practice, these transparent moments often strengthen the therapeutic alliance rather than damage it. The therapeutic journey becomes truly collaborative when both participants can learn from each other and grow together.
What therapy misconceptions have you encountered? Share your experiences in the comments or reach out directly. Join us next time for the final episode of Finding Our Way. Your authentic self is welcome here – expletives and all.
Freed AI converts conversations into SOAP note.Use code Steve50 for $50 off the 1st month!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and
(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
GetFreeai.
Yes, you've heard me talk aboutit previously in other episodes
, but I'm going to talk about itagain because GetFreeai is just
a great service.
Imagine being able to payattention to your clients all
the time, instead of writingnotes and making sure that the
note's going to sound good, andhow are you going to write that
note and things like that.
Notes, and making sure that thenote's going to sound good, and
(01:05):
how are you going to write thatnote and things like that?
Getfreeai liberates you frommaking sure that you're writing
what the client is saying,because it is keeping track of
what you're saying and willcreate, after the end of every
session, a progress note.
But it goes above and beyondthat.
Not only does it create aprogress note, it also gives you
suggestions for goals, givesyou even a mental status if
(01:26):
you've asked questions aroundthat, as well as being able to
write a letter for your clientto know what you talked about.
So that's the great, greatthing.
It saves me time, it saves me alot of aggravation and it just
speeds up the progress noteprocess so well, and for $99 a
month.
I know that that's nothing.
(01:48):
That's worth my time.
That's worth my money.
You know the best part of it,too, is that if you want to go
and put in the code Steve50 whenyou get the service at the
checkout, code is Steve50, youget $50 off your first month and
if you get a whole year, yousave a whole 10% for the whole
year.
So again, steve50 at checkoutfor getfreeai will give you $50
(02:13):
off for the first month and,like I said, get a full year,
get 10% off, get free fromwriting notes, get free from
always scribbling while you'retalking to a client and just
paying attention to your client.
So they win out, you win out,everybody wins, and I think that
this is the greatest thing.
And if you're up to a pointwhere you got to change a
treatment plan, well, the goalsare generated for you.
(02:34):
So, getfreeai Code Steve50 tosave $50 on your first month.
(02:59):
Andy, chris and Pat came in andI hope you go back and listen
to it because it was a reallygood episode.
But with episode 198, I reallywant to talk about the myths
about therapy.
You know, maybe you don't knowthis, but if you're listening to
my show, I like to write andright now I'm trying to write a
book based on some of theconcerns that some first
responders had in regards togoing to therapy.
(03:22):
So I'm like, hey, besidespromoting my future book, which
you know it's getting about aquarter way done at this point,
I wanted to promote a little bitof that but, more importantly,
talk about some of the myths oftherapy.
And yes, I can't pronounce myTHs right.
So, hey, make fun of me all youwant, but what I'd like you to
do is to really think about someof the stuff that people think
(03:42):
about therapy and then go fromthere.
So the first thing I would liketo talk about is you know what
happens when you close the door.
So you will know this isunfiltered therapy.
We learn things from TV that arenot true.
Number one, number two intherapy.
You know like I remember mytraining and yes, I do remember
(04:05):
that far back for those who aregoing to make fun of my age, but
yes, when I trained in the likeI started I did in the late
nineties or late two thousandsfor my masters.
We learned a lot of differentthings, and I give shout out to
Peter Toscano, among others.
Len Dorfler had a greatinfluence on me too, from
assumption now university.
At the time as a college, theytaught me a whole lot and Peter
was good at breaking down someof these myths and I really want
to make sure I bring it up toyou guys.
So here's a few of them thatyou can discuss and I wanted to
(04:29):
discuss with you and you cantell me what you think about.
The first thing is swearing intherapy.
Well, if you listen to thispodcast, I swear.
I feel I should swear right nowbut it's not appropriate.
But I do swear and in therapy,clients will swear as well as I
will, and we don't swear at eachother.
We swear about situations.
We swear about other things,but you can swear at therapy and
I've heard people before sayingthat's not appropriate.
That's not right.
I'll tell you one thingNothing's more authentic than a
(04:51):
good fuck, really well placed orshit, or think about any
expletive that you can thinkabout.
The reason why is that it'sauthentic?
It comes from the heart, andonce you start filtering what
you feel in your heart, what istherapy about?
Being authentic, being yourself.
So I wouldn't encourage anyoneto change that.
I would really encourage peopleto kind of do that.
(05:12):
I remember the first timesomeone said to me something
that I thought was reallyscrewed up.
They said wow, it's reallyfucked up.
And they were like I appreciateit, you told me the truth.
I'm the only one I thought feltthat way.
So sometimes being real is soimportant and that's part of it
too is like I think that theother part that people tend to
(05:32):
forget is that real, authenticreaction is very, very important
.
Sometimes I'll go like this andI try not to do too much when
we're going into deep trauma andsomeone's already having
emotions, but ultimately I canhave my expressions because it
makes me authentic.
You know, the humanizing oftherapists is quite a movement
(05:55):
that's going on now, but at theend of the day, we need to be
able to authenticate,authenticize ourselves as
therapists so clients can beauthentic with us.
So for me, it's okay to havereactions to what's being said
and I said, of course, ifsomeone's talking about trauma
or something like that, I reallygo and let them talk.
I don't really match at thatpoint, I just listen.
I remember someone telling meabout a really, really difficult
(06:15):
traumatizing experience and I'mgoing to really not talk about
it because I don't want anyidentifiers and yes that I
believe in the ethics of notputting any identifiers on
people.
But I remember going.
Geez, I can only imagine I wasreally screwed up and really
fucked up as a situation and itburst into tears.
(06:36):
And, like I never said this toanyone, I was afraid people
would make fun of me.
People would not think it'sthat bad and you really had a
great reaction.
So I think that for me, givingthose examples is really
important because that's whathelped that individual heal.
So I don't want to go into toomuch details because I don't
(06:56):
want to identify anyone.
So I hope that makes sense.
And the other truth is is thatwe're human.
I said that earlier, but youknow, one of the things that
happens is clients wonder if wethink about them outside of
session.
Of course we do.
Do we think about it in anycreepy way?
Of course not.
I'm not creep, but I certainlythink about people
professionally.
I was in New York City lastweek and I have a few clients
(07:19):
who are from that area and Iremember walking a couple of
areas where I think they grew up.
So I was wondering if Jane Doe,john Doe, oh, I wonder if they
went there, if they went nearhere, what have you?
So I think that sometimes it'simportant to realize that we
think about our clients outsidethe session.
When a client has had a prettyrough session, I'll text them
the day after.
Is that something that everyonedoes?
(07:41):
Of course not, but I do itbecause, hey, you know what, you
were having a tough time, letme know about it.
Most of my clients reallyappreciate that because they
feel like they're being listenedto and they know how difficult
and they think that I understandhow difficult it is for them.
So I really like to do that.
The other part, too, that Ireally want to remind people is
my life isn't perfect.
(08:02):
In fact, I don't know of anytherapist whose life is perfect,
and that's okay.
You know, one of the thingsthat I like to remind people is
I'm in therapy too.
I have stuff I got to work on,and hopefully I'll be working on
my stuff for the rest of mylife.
I know that therapies, you know.
People say we only use it whenwe need it, and that's fine.
I'm okay with that.
My view is we can all usetherapy.
Do we need it all weekly, daily?
(08:28):
No, do we even need it everyother week?
No, I mean, I go to mytherapist right now every five
weeks, six weeks.
I'm doing pretty good right now, which is great.
But I do have my own problems,you know, and yeah, I do my best
for my kids, but you know,sometimes that's hard.
I have relationships.
Sometimes they're hard and it'sokay to be able to talk about
that.
When, when clients ask me ifI'm perfect far from being
perfect and it's okay for you tostart thinking about your
(08:50):
therapist not being perfect,authenticity being yourself is
very important and that when atherapist is not perfect, I
think that helps theauthenticity of the individual.
We handle our own struggles.
If I'm having a good hard time,even on podcasts right now, you
have no clue.
If I'm having a hard time rightnow, I don't believe I'm having
a hard time right now.
I'm knocking on wood.
(09:11):
I guarantee you my desk is madeof wood.
But sometimes I do have my ownstuff.
I don't bring it to session.
I really handle my ownstruggles, but sometimes I got
to really think about my ownstuff and not let it bleed out
in the session.
But we all have it right.
We all have health issues, weall have family members, we all
(09:32):
have things.
That goes on.
So just remember for those ofyou who I don't think I
mentioned on the podcast yet Ihad surgery a few weeks ago a
gallbladder removal tucked in ahernia, and I took a few days
off, but ultimately I probablyshould have taken a little more
(09:55):
time off.
When I came back I did okay,but I think it was a Tuesday.
Tuesdays I work late here.
One of my clients my laterclients looked at me.
She said don't take this thewrong way, but you look like
shit.
And I said, well, if it makesyou feel any better, I feel like
shit.
And she's like, oh, I'm sorrywe can cut the session short.
I'm like, no, I can handle it,but if I can't, I'll let you
know, and people think aboutthat as well.
You'd share too much.
No, I think it's good to tellpeople I have limits, I have
(10:17):
issues, and there's sometimes Idon't know where to set a limit.
She helped me set that limit.
And sometimes we learn from ourclients, which is another thing
that we'll get to.
But we learn from our clientsas much as you learn from us.
And any therapists that saythey don't, I don't, I wouldn't
trust them, frankly, but that'sone of them.
And then the other thing too isyou know, I've been through
(10:40):
divorce, very amicable with myex-wife.
She's pretty good actually.
But sometimes you know, knowbringing that journey of my own
struggles with divorce because,as amicable as it was, it was
tough.
It's hard to go through adivorce for anyone and sometimes
I bring that experience to thesession, not to tell people this
is how you're going to feel,but they sometimes ask me
(11:01):
questions and I've also heardsomeone say well, you're, if you
do couples counseling andyou've been divorced, how can
you tell them you've been in arelationship and you don't know
how to make an LA last, which is, truthfully, something once
said to me and I say well, Ialso knew that sometimes things
don't work out and that's OK,there's nothing wrong with that.
So being able to talk aboutthat is so important, so that
(11:24):
you're authentic and people cansay, oh, he's been there, done
that, has a few T-shirts.
You're authentic and people cansay, oh, he's been there, done
that, has a few t-shirts.
And yeah, my personal struggles.
I don't bring them like, oh myGod, my blank has been difficult
with me, whatever that is, butI certainly have my own growth,
my own struggles, and I bringthem to the session and most
people feel that authenticityand that truthfulness really
helps.
The other part, too, is I trynot to talk out of my ass, so I
don't say things I don't know.
(11:44):
I try not to talk out of my assso I don't say things I don't
know.
But sometimes I make mistakes.
Every therapist I know makesmistakes.
The true, good therapist willpoint out you know, I made a
mistake last time.
This is what I said, I meantthis.
Or when I said that that wasabsolutely wrong.
This is why you should thinkabout it this way.
(12:04):
We make mistakes.
Why?
Because we're human, and ifsomeone says, well, you're in
the medical field, you cannotmake mistakes, well, I would
argue that every medical doctor,every nurse and everyone I've
ever met in the medical fieldhas admitted to a mistake or two
Makes us human, and also it'sokay to learn from these
mistakes.
(12:25):
One of the things I'm reallyterrible with this is going to
be oops moments for me.
I'm so bad with names.
Anyone who knows me knows that.
I think I mentioned it herebefore, but sometimes I'll go
like how's your husband, frankie?
And they're like well, myhusband's name is Johnny, oh
crap.
And most people laugh because Itell them right off the top I'm
no good with names.
(12:45):
So that's how I learned fromthem and then I say you know,
the other part too is becauseI've always been bad with names,
and yes, if you want to send metricks about how to remember
names, please do so.
However, I've tried pretty muchanything under the sun, but I
do remember a story really welland what I tell people is when I
make a mistake like that, Isaid well, your husband, he
works in the computer sciencefield, he works with blah blah,
(13:08):
blah, blah, blah, like, oh, youremember his story.
I'm really good at rememberingstories, I'm just not good with
names.
So remembering the stories,remembering what's going on,
that's more important to me thanremembering Johnny, jane or
Frank.
So you know, kind ofremembering that and being
imperfect shows clients howbeing imperfect is okay for them
(13:29):
too.
I think that sometimes westruggle with realizing that we
can make mistakes and it'sdifficult to admit, but I make
mistakes, you know.
I think I've been known in mysoccer training.
When I used to coach soccer,I'd tell the girls if I don't
make 10 mistakes in the day,I've had a pretty good day, it's
okay and it makes me a bettertherapist.
Because I learned it actuallycame up today.
(13:49):
They asked me do you thinkyou're the best therapist.
I'm like by far.
No, I'm not the worst therapist, but I'm up there and people
are like, well, that may bearrogant, I'm like no, but I
know I have to learn andlearning is key.
A few years ago I didn't knowwhat IFS stood for internal
family systems.
So you know, I'd say like Idon't know what it is, and being
imperfect and not knowingeverything made them realize oh,
(14:12):
I can educate them.
And we had a conversation.
I studied it afterwards.
So when they came back home tothe session not home I was able
to have that conversation.
And so it's important to havethose moments where you don't
know, make a mistake, share itand then better yourself.
I like to learn every day.
I like to learn Anyone whoknows me, I read a lot of
(14:35):
nonfiction.
Yeah, sometimes I probablyshould go into fiction, but I
like to take these learningexperiences, whether it's from
books or TV shows.
Yes, tv shows taught me a lotNumbers, among others.
It's not very old.
Well, I guess for youngerpeople it would be old, you know
, 10, 15 years old but I learneda lot from those TV shows and
(14:56):
sometimes that's what makes mebetter to always learn from any
situation and I share mypersonal stories.
We talked about the divorce, butI also think that I share other
stories, like when I had theissue.
You know I have clients whohave fears of planes and I know
right now a lot of people do.
But, as you probably saw, Ican't remember the episode
number.
It was about two years ago, sowhat would be the low 90s?
(15:21):
I was on a plane where someonetried to take over the plane.
I was as raw as I could on thispodcast, so go back and listen
to that if you want to, if youwant me to link it to the show
notes.
But I think that what happenedis again, I was able to show
that I also have moments ofdoubt, moments I feel difficult,
and it's okay to share thatexperience, because being
(15:41):
perfect to me is irrational andwe talk about perfectionism and
all that in my sessions,particularly with the cognitive
behavioral stuff.
But I'm able to share that.
Did I share those experienceswhen I was still struggling?
No, I didn't.
I chose to share them when it'sappropriate.
And when is it appropriate?
Wow, that's called clinicaljudgment.
People who tell me well, what'sclinical judgment?
(16:05):
It's years and years ofexperience.
It goes back to a little bit ofwhat I tell people is that my
fees.
Sometimes people are like, well, aren't your fees a little more
expensive than most?
I'm like, well, you're probablynot paying for the session I'm
doing today.
You're paying for the 20 plusyears of experience I have
personal as well as professionalin order to learn.
So that happens.
But you really need to havethat balance and sometimes I do
(16:36):
share personal stuff.
Sorry, toronto, but I'm a fan.
I'm a Montrealer, not a big fanof Toronto at all, and so my
clients sometimes know aboutthat and I share about my love
hate relationship with Toronto,being a Montrealer.
Talk about hockey, and, yeah,I'm a, I'm a big fake.
For some people I'm a Canadiansfan first, bruins second, and
people are like, oh, you can'tpull for both.
Well, if you're a hockey fan,you can do whatever you want,
and sometimes I share that,sometimes I don't.
(16:56):
But ultimately it's being ableto be yourself.
People want to know that you'rea person.
I've never met one of myclients saying, oh, my God,
you're too much of a person.
Do I talk about myself for 40of the 50 minutes?
No, do I spend sometimesopening up a little bit at the
beginning or when it'sappropriate, yes, but it's
clinical judgment.
Sometimes I have a few clientsif I don't open up at the
(17:19):
beginning of a session about.
You know it didn't happen yetthis week but someone said how
are y'all?
I went to New York, had a greattime or whatever.
How are you?
What's been going on?
It opens the conversation forthem and it opens the
conversation for me and we cango into really good places with
all that.
So a few key points to remember.
(17:39):
We're human.
We make mistakes.
It's a collaborative journey,as in clients and therapists
learn from each other as muchand I really kind of like grow
from all that.
So those are my little pointshere.
I hope this was helpful as apodcast.
If you have any stories youknow, I would love to hear your
stories, your collaborativejourneys and in regards with
(18:00):
your therapist and what you'velearned or what you didn't learn
or what was wrong, what wasright.
Please put it in.
You can write.
You can press a comment in myshow notes on your favorite
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
You can also write to medirectly if you wish.
My email is available on mostplatforms also, so please share
me your own therapymisconceptions, what your
(18:23):
journey is and how it went.
So I do appreciate you sharingthat and, of course, share like,
share it with friends, even ifit's just a couple of minutes of
this one or whatever.
Just share it with people.
That's always important.
So that is my conversationabout therapy, but that's it for
episode 198.
Thank you for listening.
Write to me as much as you want, but for episode 199, which is
the final episode of Finding OurWay, resilience, development
(18:45):
and Action, we'll be talking toKaren Paschal and I hope you
join me, then Please like,subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
A glowing review is always helpful and, as a
reminder, this podcast is forinformational, educational and
entertainment purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(19:18):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Hi and welcome to Finding your Way Through Therapy
.
A proud member of thePsychCraft Network, the goal of
this podcast is to demystifytherapy, what can happen in
therapy and the wide array ofconversations you can have in
and about therapy Throughpersonal experiences.
Guests will talk about therapy,their experiences with it and
(00:24):
how psychology and therapy arepresent in many places in their
lives, with lots of authenticityand a touch of humor.
Here is your host, steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
GetFreeai.
Yes, you've heard me talk aboutit previously in other episodes
, but I'm going to talk about itagain because GetFreeai is just
a great service.
Imagine being able to payattention to your clients all
the time, instead of writingnotes and making sure that the
note's going to sound good, andhow are you going to write that
note and things like that.
Notes, and making sure that thenote's going to sound good, and
(01:05):
how are you going to write thatnote and things like that?
Getfreeai liberates you frommaking sure that you're writing
what the client is saying,because it is keeping track of
what you're saying and willcreate, after the end of every
session, a progress note.
But it goes above and beyondthat.
Not only does it create aprogress note, it also gives you
suggestions for goals, givesyou even a mental status if
(01:26):
you've asked questions aroundthat, as well as being able to
write a letter for your clientto know what you talked about.
So that's the great, greatthing.
It saves me time, it saves me alot of aggravation and it just
speeds up the progress noteprocess so well, and for $99 a
month.
I know that that's nothing.
(01:48):
That's worth my time.
That's worth my money.
You know the best part of it,too, is that if you want to go
and put in the code Steve50 whenyou get the service at the
checkout, code is Steve50, youget $50 off your first month and
if you get a whole year, yousave a whole 10% for the whole
year.
So again, steve50 at checkoutfor getfreeai will give you $50
(02:13):
off for the first month and,like I said, get a full year,
get 10% off, get free fromwriting notes, get free from
always scribbling while you'retalking to a client and just
paying attention to your client.
So they win out, you win out,everybody wins, and I think that
this is the greatest thing.
And if you're up to a pointwhere you got to change a
treatment plan, well, the goalsare generated for you.
(02:34):
So, getfreeai Code Steve50 tosave $50 on your first month.
(02:59):
Andy, chris and Pat came in andI hope you go back and listen
to it because it was a reallygood episode.
But with episode 198, I reallywant to talk about the myths
about therapy.
You know, maybe you don't knowthis, but if you're listening to
my show, I like to write andright now I'm trying to write a
book based on some of theconcerns that some first
responders had in regards togoing to therapy.
(03:22):
So I'm like, hey, besidespromoting my future book, which
you know it's getting about aquarter way done at this point,
I wanted to promote a little bitof that but, more importantly,
talk about some of the myths oftherapy.
And yes, I can't pronounce myTHs right.
So, hey, make fun of me all youwant, but what I'd like you to
do is to really think about someof the stuff that people think
(03:42):
about therapy and then go fromthere.
So the first thing I would liketo talk about is you know what
happens when you close the door.
So you will know this isunfiltered therapy.
We learn things from TV that arenot true.
Number one, number two intherapy.
You know like I remember mytraining and yes, I do remember
(04:05):
that far back for those who aregoing to make fun of my age, but
yes, when I trained in the likeI started I did in the late
nineties or late two thousandsfor my masters.
We learned a lot of differentthings, and I give shout out to
Peter Toscano, among others.
Len Dorfler had a greatinfluence on me too, from
assumption now university.
At the time as a college, theytaught me a whole lot and Peter
was good at breaking down someof these myths and I really want
to make sure I bring it up toyou guys.
So here's a few of them thatyou can discuss and I wanted to
(04:29):
discuss with you and you cantell me what you think about.
The first thing is swearing intherapy.
Well, if you listen to thispodcast, I swear.
I feel I should swear right nowbut it's not appropriate.
But I do swear and in therapy,clients will swear as well as I
will, and we don't swear at eachother.
We swear about situations.
We swear about other things,but you can swear at therapy and
I've heard people before sayingthat's not appropriate.
That's not right.
I'll tell you one thingNothing's more authentic than a
(04:51):
good fuck, really well placed orshit, or think about any
expletive that you can thinkabout.
The reason why is that it'sauthentic?
It comes from the heart, andonce you start filtering what
you feel in your heart, what istherapy about?
Being authentic, being yourself.
So I wouldn't encourage anyoneto change that.
I would really encourage peopleto kind of do that.
(05:12):
I remember the first timesomeone said to me something
that I thought was reallyscrewed up.
They said wow, it's reallyfucked up.
And they were like I appreciateit, you told me the truth.
I'm the only one I thought feltthat way.
So sometimes being real is soimportant and that's part of it
too is like I think that theother part that people tend to
(05:32):
forget is that real, authenticreaction is very, very important
.
Sometimes I'll go like this andI try not to do too much when
we're going into deep trauma andsomeone's already having
emotions, but ultimately I canhave my expressions because it
makes me authentic.
You know, the humanizing oftherapists is quite a movement
(05:55):
that's going on now, but at theend of the day, we need to be
able to authenticate,authenticize ourselves as
therapists so clients can beauthentic with us.
So for me, it's okay to havereactions to what's being said
and I said, of course, ifsomeone's talking about trauma
or something like that, I reallygo and let them talk.
I don't really match at thatpoint, I just listen.
I remember someone telling meabout a really, really difficult
(06:15):
traumatizing experience and I'mgoing to really not talk about
it because I don't want anyidentifiers and yes that I
believe in the ethics of notputting any identifiers on
people.
But I remember going.
Geez, I can only imagine I wasreally screwed up and really
fucked up as a situation and itburst into tears.
(06:36):
And, like I never said this toanyone, I was afraid people
would make fun of me.
People would not think it'sthat bad and you really had a
great reaction.
So I think that for me, givingthose examples is really
important because that's whathelped that individual heal.
So I don't want to go into toomuch details because I don't
(06:56):
want to identify anyone.
So I hope that makes sense.
And the other truth is is thatwe're human.
I said that earlier, but youknow, one of the things that
happens is clients wonder if wethink about them outside of
session.
Of course we do.
Do we think about it in anycreepy way?
Of course not.
I'm not creep, but I certainlythink about people
professionally.
I was in New York City lastweek and I have a few clients
(07:19):
who are from that area and Iremember walking a couple of
areas where I think they grew up.
So I was wondering if Jane Doe,john Doe, oh, I wonder if they
went there, if they went nearhere, what have you?
So I think that sometimes it'simportant to realize that we
think about our clients outsidethe session.
When a client has had a prettyrough session, I'll text them
the day after.
Is that something that everyonedoes?
(07:41):
Of course not, but I do itbecause, hey, you know what, you
were having a tough time, letme know about it.
Most of my clients reallyappreciate that because they
feel like they're being listenedto and they know how difficult
and they think that I understandhow difficult it is for them.
So I really like to do that.
The other part, too, that Ireally want to remind people is
my life isn't perfect.
(08:02):
In fact, I don't know of anytherapist whose life is perfect,
and that's okay.
You know, one of the thingsthat I like to remind people is
I'm in therapy too.
I have stuff I got to work on,and hopefully I'll be working on
my stuff for the rest of mylife.
I know that therapies, you know.
People say we only use it whenwe need it, and that's fine.
I'm okay with that.
My view is we can all usetherapy.
Do we need it all weekly, daily?
(08:28):
No, do we even need it everyother week?
No, I mean, I go to mytherapist right now every five
weeks, six weeks.
I'm doing pretty good right now, which is great.
But I do have my own problems,you know, and yeah, I do my best
for my kids, but you know,sometimes that's hard.
I have relationships.
Sometimes they're hard and it'sokay to be able to talk about
that.
When, when clients ask me ifI'm perfect far from being
perfect and it's okay for you tostart thinking about your
(08:50):
therapist not being perfect,authenticity being yourself is
very important and that when atherapist is not perfect, I
think that helps theauthenticity of the individual.
We handle our own struggles.
If I'm having a good hard time,even on podcasts right now, you
have no clue.
If I'm having a hard time rightnow, I don't believe I'm having
a hard time right now.
I'm knocking on wood.
(09:11):
I guarantee you my desk is madeof wood.
But sometimes I do have my ownstuff.
I don't bring it to session.
I really handle my ownstruggles, but sometimes I got
to really think about my ownstuff and not let it bleed out
in the session.
But we all have it right.
We all have health issues, weall have family members, we all
(09:32):
have things.
That goes on.
So just remember for those ofyou who I don't think I
mentioned on the podcast yet Ihad surgery a few weeks ago a
gallbladder removal tucked in ahernia, and I took a few days
off, but ultimately I probablyshould have taken a little more
(09:55):
time off.
When I came back I did okay,but I think it was a Tuesday.
Tuesdays I work late here.
One of my clients my laterclients looked at me.
She said don't take this thewrong way, but you look like
shit.
And I said, well, if it makesyou feel any better, I feel like
shit.
And she's like, oh, I'm sorrywe can cut the session short.
I'm like, no, I can handle it,but if I can't, I'll let you
know, and people think aboutthat as well.
You'd share too much.
No, I think it's good to tellpeople I have limits, I have
(10:17):
issues, and there's sometimes Idon't know where to set a limit.
She helped me set that limit.
And sometimes we learn from ourclients, which is another thing
that we'll get to.
But we learn from our clientsas much as you learn from us.
And any therapists that saythey don't, I don't, I wouldn't
trust them, frankly, but that'sone of them.
And then the other thing too isyou know, I've been through
(10:40):
divorce, very amicable with myex-wife.
She's pretty good actually.
But sometimes you know, knowbringing that journey of my own
struggles with divorce because,as amicable as it was, it was
tough.
It's hard to go through adivorce for anyone and sometimes
I bring that experience to thesession, not to tell people this
is how you're going to feel,but they sometimes ask me
(11:01):
questions and I've also heardsomeone say well, you're, if you
do couples counseling andyou've been divorced, how can
you tell them you've been in arelationship and you don't know
how to make an LA last, which is, truthfully, something once
said to me and I say well, Ialso knew that sometimes things
don't work out and that's OK,there's nothing wrong with that.
So being able to talk aboutthat is so important, so that
(11:24):
you're authentic and people cansay, oh, he's been there, done
that, has a few T-shirts.
You're authentic and people cansay, oh, he's been there, done
that, has a few t-shirts.
And yeah, my personal struggles.
I don't bring them like, oh myGod, my blank has been difficult
with me, whatever that is, butI certainly have my own growth,
my own struggles, and I bringthem to the session and most
people feel that authenticityand that truthfulness really
helps.
The other part, too, is I trynot to talk out of my ass, so I
don't say things I don't know.
(11:44):
I try not to talk out of my assso I don't say things I don't
know.
But sometimes I make mistakes.
Every therapist I know makesmistakes.
The true, good therapist willpoint out you know, I made a
mistake last time.
This is what I said, I meantthis.
Or when I said that that wasabsolutely wrong.
This is why you should thinkabout it this way.
(12:04):
We make mistakes.
Why?
Because we're human, and ifsomeone says, well, you're in
the medical field, you cannotmake mistakes, well, I would
argue that every medical doctor,every nurse and everyone I've
ever met in the medical fieldhas admitted to a mistake or two
Makes us human, and also it'sokay to learn from these
mistakes.
(12:25):
One of the things I'm reallyterrible with this is going to
be oops moments for me.
I'm so bad with names.
Anyone who knows me knows that.
I think I mentioned it herebefore, but sometimes I'll go
like how's your husband, frankie?
And they're like well, myhusband's name is Johnny, oh
crap.
And most people laugh because Itell them right off the top I'm
no good with names.
(12:45):
So that's how I learned fromthem and then I say you know,
the other part too is becauseI've always been bad with names,
and yes, if you want to send metricks about how to remember
names, please do so.
However, I've tried pretty muchanything under the sun, but I
do remember a story really welland what I tell people is when I
make a mistake like that, Isaid well, your husband, he
works in the computer sciencefield, he works with blah blah,
(13:08):
blah, blah, blah, like, oh, youremember his story.
I'm really good at rememberingstories, I'm just not good with
names.
So remembering the stories,remembering what's going on,
that's more important to me thanremembering Johnny, jane or
Frank.
So you know, kind ofremembering that and being
imperfect shows clients howbeing imperfect is okay for them
(13:29):
too.
I think that sometimes westruggle with realizing that we
can make mistakes and it'sdifficult to admit, but I make
mistakes, you know.
I think I've been known in mysoccer training.
When I used to coach soccer,I'd tell the girls if I don't
make 10 mistakes in the day,I've had a pretty good day, it's
okay and it makes me a bettertherapist.
Because I learned it actuallycame up today.
(13:49):
They asked me do you thinkyou're the best therapist.
I'm like by far.
No, I'm not the worst therapist, but I'm up there and people
are like, well, that may bearrogant, I'm like no, but I
know I have to learn andlearning is key.
A few years ago I didn't knowwhat IFS stood for internal
family systems.
So you know, I'd say like Idon't know what it is, and being
imperfect and not knowingeverything made them realize oh,
(14:12):
I can educate them.
And we had a conversation.
I studied it afterwards.
So when they came back home tothe session not home I was able
to have that conversation.
And so it's important to havethose moments where you don't
know, make a mistake, share itand then better yourself.
I like to learn every day.
I like to learn Anyone whoknows me, I read a lot of
(14:35):
nonfiction.
Yeah, sometimes I probablyshould go into fiction, but I
like to take these learningexperiences, whether it's from
books or TV shows.
Yes, tv shows taught me a lotNumbers, among others.
It's not very old.
Well, I guess for youngerpeople it would be old, you know
, 10, 15 years old but I learneda lot from those TV shows and
(14:56):
sometimes that's what makes mebetter to always learn from any
situation and I share mypersonal stories.
We talked about the divorce, butI also think that I share other
stories, like when I had theissue.
You know I have clients whohave fears of planes and I know
right now a lot of people do.
But, as you probably saw, Ican't remember the episode
number.
It was about two years ago, sowhat would be the low 90s?
(15:21):
I was on a plane where someonetried to take over the plane.
I was as raw as I could on thispodcast, so go back and listen
to that if you want to, if youwant me to link it to the show
notes.
But I think that what happenedis again, I was able to show
that I also have moments ofdoubt, moments I feel difficult,
and it's okay to share thatexperience, because being
(15:41):
perfect to me is irrational andwe talk about perfectionism and
all that in my sessions,particularly with the cognitive
behavioral stuff.
But I'm able to share that.
Did I share those experienceswhen I was still struggling?
No, I didn't.
I chose to share them when it'sappropriate.
And when is it appropriate?
Wow, that's called clinicaljudgment.
People who tell me well, what'sclinical judgment?
(16:05):
It's years and years ofexperience.
It goes back to a little bit ofwhat I tell people is that my
fees.
Sometimes people are like, well, aren't your fees a little more
expensive than most?
I'm like, well, you're probablynot paying for the session I'm
doing today.
You're paying for the 20 plusyears of experience I have
personal as well as professionalin order to learn.
So that happens.
But you really need to havethat balance and sometimes I do
(16:36):
share personal stuff.
Sorry, toronto, but I'm a fan.
I'm a Montrealer, not a big fanof Toronto at all, and so my
clients sometimes know aboutthat and I share about my love
hate relationship with Toronto,being a Montrealer.
Talk about hockey, and, yeah,I'm a, I'm a big fake.
For some people I'm a Canadiansfan first, bruins second, and
people are like, oh, you can'tpull for both.
Well, if you're a hockey fan,you can do whatever you want,
and sometimes I share that,sometimes I don't.
(16:56):
But ultimately it's being ableto be yourself.
People want to know that you'rea person.
I've never met one of myclients saying, oh, my God,
you're too much of a person.
Do I talk about myself for 40of the 50 minutes?
No, do I spend sometimesopening up a little bit at the
beginning or when it'sappropriate, yes, but it's
clinical judgment.
Sometimes I have a few clientsif I don't open up at the
(17:19):
beginning of a session about.
You know it didn't happen yetthis week but someone said how
are y'all?
I went to New York, had a greattime or whatever.
How are you?
What's been going on?
It opens the conversation forthem and it opens the
conversation for me and we cango into really good places with
all that.
So a few key points to remember.
(17:39):
We're human.
We make mistakes.
It's a collaborative journey,as in clients and therapists
learn from each other as muchand I really kind of like grow
from all that.
So those are my little pointshere.
I hope this was helpful as apodcast.
If you have any stories youknow, I would love to hear your
stories, your collaborativejourneys and in regards with
(18:00):
your therapist and what you'velearned or what you didn't learn
or what was wrong, what wasright.
Please put it in.
You can write.
You can press a comment in myshow notes on your favorite
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
You can also write to medirectly if you wish.
My email is available on mostplatforms also, so please share
me your own therapymisconceptions, what your
(18:23):
journey is and how it went.
So I do appreciate you sharingthat and, of course, share like,
share it with friends, even ifit's just a couple of minutes of
this one or whatever.
Just share it with people.
That's always important.
So that is my conversationabout therapy, but that's it for
episode 198.
Thank you for listening.
Write to me as much as you want, but for episode 199, which is
the final episode of Finding OurWay, resilience, development
(18:45):
and Action, we'll be talking toKaren Paschal and I hope you
join me, then Please like,subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
A glowing review is always helpful and, as a
reminder, this podcast is forinformational, educational and
entertainment purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(19:18):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com