May 21, 2025 • 54 mins
The walls we build to protect ourselves from trauma can become our prisons. This powerful truth emerges as Dr. Charlie Powell returns to share groundbreaking developments with his "Healing Heroes: No Mind Left Behind" documentary, now evolving from a television series into a theatrical release scheduled for November 11th.
Charlie takes us deep into the intricate relationship between PTSD and addiction, revealing how these conditions often share the same root causes. "Most cases of PTSD don't start in adulthood," he explains, sharing his personal revelation that despite decades in military service and trauma medicine, some of his most significant healing came from addressing a childhood near-drowning experience. This perspective shatters conventional understanding of trauma, suggesting that many of our adult struggles trace back to moments where life came at us "too fast, too much, and too soon."
The conversation ventures into uncomfortable but vital territory as Charlie and Steve discuss how trauma survivors' silence impacts relationships. "The silence that you put your partner through," Steve notes, "may not seem like verbal abuse or trauma, but it is." Charlie takes this further with a provocative comparison: this withdrawal can be as damaging as infidelity, representing a loss of faith in the partner's ability to handle the truth of your experience.
Most powerfully, Charlie shares his initial reluctance and eventual decision to make his personal story central to the documentary. "People think vulnerability is a weakness. It's not. It's a strength," he explains, challenging the stigma that keeps many first responders and veterans from seeking help. This vulnerability has already resonated deeply—the documentary's first trailer garnered an astounding 4 million views in just three and a half days.
For anyone struggling with trauma's grip, this conversation offers not just insight but tangible hope. Charlie describes how interventions combining multiple healing modalities helped six veterans and first responders achieve transformative recovery in just ten days—freedom from both PTSD symptoms and associated addictions many had developed to cope. As Charlie puts it: "Challenge anybody out there—imagine the biggest accomplishments you've ever had in life and tell me which one was easy." Perhaps our greatest traumas, properly processed, can lead to our greatest growth.
Ready to see trauma recovery differently? Listen now, and watch for the new Healing Heroes trailer dropping this Memorial Day.
Here is the trailer for "Healing Heroes: No Mind Left Behind" Season 1: https://youtu.be/16bnQ7eVKKI?si=46VOPpo1fLq_WB9o
Freed.ai: We’ll Do Your SOAP Notes!Freed AI converts conversations into SOAP note.Use code Steve50 for $50 off the 1st month!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where
strength meets strategy andcourage to help you move forward
.
Each week, your host, steveBisson, a therapist with over
two decades of experience in thefirst responder community,
brings you powerfulconversations about resilience,
growth and healing throughtrauma and grief.
Whether you're navigating thecomplex journey of grief,
(00:22):
processing trauma or seeking tobuild resilience in high-stress
environments, this podcast isyour trusted companion.
From first responders facingdaily challenges to emergency
personnel managing criticalsituations, to leaders carrying
the weight of difficultdecisions, we're here to support
your journey.
Through authentic interviews,expert discussions and
(00:43):
real-world experiences, we divedeep into the heart of human
resilience.
We explore crucial topics liketrauma recovery, grief
processing, stress managementand emotional well-being.
Our conversations bridge thegap between professional insight
and practical application,offering you tools and
strategies that work in the realworld.
(01:03):
Join us as we create a spacewhere healing is possible, where
grief finds understanding andwhere resilience becomes your
foundation for growth.
This is Resilience Developmentin Action with Steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'll always change up those intros because I think
it's important.
Welcome to episode 205.
If you haven't listened toepisode 204, Beth Saldo was on.
She had great stories.
I hope you go back and listento it.
I really enjoyed talking to her.
But yeah, we had my next gueston for episode 200.
But because he has a veryimportant project coming out and
(01:38):
I'll let him talk about itduring the interview.
Charlie Powell is back andwe're going to talk about
Healing Heroes.
We're going to talk about howit has evolved and where it's
going to be, and I hope youenjoy the interview.
And here it is.
(02:01):
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Well, hi everyone and welcome toepisode 205.
Look, returning guests alreadybeen on the show.
About a month ago was on thepremiere show, Love Charlie.
(04:11):
So much having Charlie back onCharlie Powell, Dr Charlie
Powell, but I call him Charlieand I think everyone else does.
But welcome back to ResilienceDevelopment in Action.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Absolutely.
You know, and I will be yourMatt Damon to Jimmy Kimmel any
day.
I'm glad to come on your showand you know we'll just have a
good time with it.
I really enjoyed that time wespent together.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, but we got to be a little more hostile towards
each other.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
if we're going to do that, Please let's talk about
the bikinis and capes again.
We're good, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Look, we destroyed some fantasies this morning
already.
Uh, this is not good, um, butthe one good thing is, you know,
I know you're going to talkabout it during the course of
this episode, but I hear thatwe're getting closer to a
release date and we're lookingfor, um, healing heroes, and I
know we talked about it the lasttime, but one of the things
that charlie brought up while wewere chatting besides the
french maid outfit, and forthose, those in my group, you
(05:08):
will find this even morehilarious, and if you want the
story, write to me or Charlie,we'll let you know.
But we were talking also aboutsomething very serious how PTSD
and addiction is really relatedto one another.
And I know that when you'rehealing heroes, ptsd and
addiction really comes hand inhand.
And I know that you know whenyou're healing heroes, ptsd and
addiction really comes hand inhand.
And you know, I know that'sgoing to be released very, you
(05:30):
know, in the next year.
So I wanted to talk about that alittle more, because most
people don't understand therelationship between PTSD and
addiction.
They think that you know peoplewho can't handle their shit are
actually drinking or doingdrugs.
But it's not exactly that easy.
Can you want to talk about it alittle more?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
No, no, I'd be glad to you know it's interesting.
So the show Healing Heroes noMind Left Behind again, just to
remind everybody is is us takingsix veterans and well, six
heroes, right, veterans andfirst responders we had fire
department New York, policedepartment New Jersey in there
and bringing them down forhealing.
They couldn't find here in theStates because it's not legal
(06:09):
here.
It just hasn't even studiedhere and after 26 years of being
in medicine I'm like WTF guys,why is this not here?
Why did I suffer for twodecades myself with PTSD and
partial treatment and thenstumble across this and go down
and find immense healing?
(06:30):
So, long story short, we takethese people down there to go
through very innovative programsthat bring in multiple
philosophies, not just fromWestern medicine and look, I'm
not knocking Western medicineright.
It's got some of the besttechnology out there, but we're
lacking in certain areas and inmy humble opinion to all my
great friends out there inpsychiatry and psychology, I
think we're just scraping thesurface on some things and so
many times we're just trying totreat it with another damn pill
(06:51):
when we're not getting to thesource of what we're doing.
So the show is about goingthrough the steps of healing.
Now, in these six individualsthat we brought down, we also
had to kind of knock thebarriers down aggressively.
They had such thick cementwalls around their radioactivity
that we had to use two words Inever thought would be used
together psychedelic andmedicine to do that Right.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So you, talk about those walls for a second.
I want to interrupt you becausepeople don't understand the
walls that you create,especially for veterans and
first responders.
You need to have those walls tosurvive sometimes, and then
sometimes those walls become sobig you're not surviving.
You're starving yourself fromthat tension from outside of the
world.
But please tell me more aboutthat.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Let me tell you the analogy I like to use.
So I worked trauma ER for anumber of years.
It was I was adrenaline junkie.
It was just kind of my thing.
I was so good at it because youturn off the emotion.
I had a tactic of just goingquick, and it was probably from
the first Gulf War, learningjust to do personalized and
separate yourself out fromthings.
But it got so easy to turn itoff and I worked so much I just
(07:56):
turned it off.
So I like this analogy.
So it's like you're sitting inyour car and you're listening to
the radio and you think, man,this car's got a crappy radio,
it's got static in it.
Right, Just a little bit.
You're trying to listen to yourfavorite music, but every time
you turn it up you got morestatic.
So eventually, when you work inthis and you're constantly
daily, weekly, monthly, whateverexperiencing things in life
(08:17):
that most people don't havethrown at them nor are we
prepared for, have the tools tohandle.
It's easy to turn the radiodown.
Or, in the case of the walls,you build walls around it and
then you do that so you can comeback and deal with it later.
Problem is we just don't takethe time to do that.
Instead, stuff starts leakingout.
(08:38):
You start having symptoms ofanxiety.
Well, what is anxiety?
It's fear without a focus.
Well, where's it coming from?
Probably one of those leakywalls you're not dealing with in
the past.
Let's go find it and sometimes,like in my situation when I
went through my healing inAugust of 23, the traumas aren't
(08:59):
even things we recognize astraumas.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So let's talk about the relationship real quick, you
know when I had this.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Every once in a while I squeezeout a good one, right drug or
alcohol use.
And then when we got down there,we found out that over half of
(09:28):
them were exactly honest.
I'm not going to say which half.
I love them.
They are my family, y'all aremy soul.
Love you guys.
But they were struggling butthey left that 10 days
addiction-free, sober and healed.
It was amazing.
Now tell me what program in theStates does that right?
So that was the whole premisebehind what was going to be the
TV series, because I just put mymoney where my mouth was.
(09:50):
I'm like we're going to do thewhole series, but we had an
opportunity since I saw you last, and that is to change this
from a series into a theatricalrelease.
And so November 11th we'regoing to do a theatrical release
.
Through right now, amc Theatersshouldn't say anything.
Okay, I'll let that one leak alittle bit.
But no, I think you guys areabout to see a new trailer come
(10:13):
out around Memorial Day, a bigtrailer for this this is being
released a weekend before yourtrailer, so I can't wait for the
trailer to be out man.
That'd be awesome.
That'd be awesome.
I got some time to get in shape.
Maybe look really good for thetrailer.
Give you a David Hasselhoff orsomething, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I hear I'm going to Cancun in October, so please
let's keep on subject here.
But we'll keep on going.
But hey, listen, you're goingto see me in my bikini on the
because, so that's going to be agreat podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'm buying you a cape , sir, because you do good in
this world, all right, so as weyank the wheel back on track
which both of us are dangerousfor that, but no.
So look at that.
So it really teaches you tocross ties between addiction and
PTSD, and you're right.
A lot of people think and it istrue to some cases, there's no
absolutes here that peoplebecome addicts because they're
(11:07):
self-medicating, and that's truein some cases that they've
dealt with so much the alcohol,the street drugs, the
prescription drugs, whateverthey start becoming a modality
of self-medication.
But it goes back further thanthat.
You can find plenty of addictsthat don't identify as having
(11:30):
PTSD.
But their addiction may havestarted earlier in life.
But the same commonality tracesback usually to trauma in
childhood.
In fact, most cases of PTSDdon't start in adulthood.
Yeah, it may have be when I was19 in the first Gulf War, or it
may have been when I was 28 anda trauma surgeon at a big
hospital that I saw a lot ofshit you just should not have to
(11:51):
see in this world.
But it really traced back forme to a near drowning experience
I had when I was about threeand a half years old and so and
I didn't even see that as thattraumatic so easily easily, my
path could have been different.
My path could have been no war,no, no ER trauma, stuff, none
(12:12):
of that.
But I could still wound up withan addiction because there was
something there undealt with.
You know, levine, I think,defines trauma as what is it?
Something that comes at you toofast, too much and too soon,
meaning you don't have the toolsto deal with it, right, right,
I mean amazing thought.
Now I've got a slightlydifferent addendum to that
(12:33):
definition, because I can neverreplace the awesomeness of that
definition.
But it's something from thepast that is taking up bandwidth
of your present, robbing you ofyour future, right, wow?
And so you look at yeah, no,maybe the Levine Powell thing, I
don't know, maybe someday.
And so there's so much to that,though that kind of gives the
(12:56):
other side explanation.
But trauma and addiction someof it is self-medication, but a
lot of it is just thecommonality of things we're not
dealing with, that are walledoff, and it's been so long ago
we don't even realize it orremember it.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Right and I feel like I should just permanently
attach the ACEs adverse childevents onto every podcast that I
do, because most people willsee what their score is.
The threshold is four out of 10, to be quote diagnosed with
PTSD.
I don't believe in diagnosis, Ijust believe in tendencies.
But most people who work inemergency rooms, people who are
(13:34):
first responders, people in themilitary, usually score in the
seven to eight range and, by theway, same as people in
corrections, people who are boththe correction staff and the
people in the cells.
So I think that what I you know, one of my favorites quotes
this is from a good friend ofmine.
He's on the mental men, patRice.
(13:54):
If you ever watch, listen tothese episodes, he says that
everything comes down to griefor trauma and if you really
really think about it, anydiagnosis that you can create
comes from grief and or traumaand I believe that firmly and
that's what you're kind of likenear drowning experience.
I mean, that's, you know, likefor me, what people want to know
(14:14):
.
I've said this numerous timeson this podcast.
My best friend died when I was12 and I was basically told well
, you better play better infootball because he's on my
football team because he won'tbe there.
And that was my you know mygrief process.
And again, I don't hold thatagainst anyone for the record.
I always keep on reminding thatsome people say, oh, you sound
better, I'm not better.
(14:35):
It's just what happened and Ithink that that's not what made
me bitter.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Lots of other stuff made me bitter, but that that
right Exactly.
There's a lot of stuff thatmakes me better.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
But anyway, we talked about it previously to this
interview, but we can't repeatit on air because it's going to
be on air, but at the end of theday, I think that's what
happens is that we don't treatthat trauma and how we treat it,
and we do treat it in otherways.
But please go ahead.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
No, no, I mean, you made an important point, though
we don't.
We didn't treat as a trauma andI didn't see that as a trauma.
And I'll give you examples.
A lot of people are surprisedto find out that my major
traumas that I had to relivewhen I went through my healing
weren't for more time.
I mean, I started in 89 in thefirst Gulf war.
I ended in Afghan crisis.
That was the bookends of mymilitary career.
(15:22):
But it was really my time at amajor hospital in trauma surgery
and ER that most of my unknowntraumas came from.
And you think about it In waryou get side A versus side B.
We're here.
One of the two of us is notgoing to make it out.
I hope it's you that doesn'tmake it out.
And we're no hard feelings guys, we both signed off on this.
The stuff from war that did getto me were civilian casualties
(15:47):
a lot of times, but that's whythe majority of my traumas came
from being in trauma ER was thatwhen you have a family of five
that's hit by a drunk driver whowalks away with a large hole in
his scalp because that's whatthe concrete gave him and that's
it, and the only survivor ofthe family of five is a
six-year-old little girl who'snow a paraplegic and has no
family to take care of her.
(16:07):
That messes you up.
After a period of time, I'lltell you a story.
It's a funny antidote.
Real quick I had to fix thehole in the guy's head and my
attending was like, what are yougoing to do?
I said he needs a skin graft.
He goes, this guy's going tojail tonight.
And I said, yes, sir, this guywas an old salty dog in the Navy
, right, like yes, sir.
And so I went in there and youhave to do a lot of what's
(16:28):
called tissue undermining.
You have to go through it.
But I closed this thing of thesize of a half dollar, to the
size of a pinhead, andeverybody's standing around
watching.
Wow, and that's great skills.
Look at this man.
Now I've removed the drape andthe guy's walking out like this,
right here.
Right, he can't close his righteye, but he went to jail good,
good, he wasn't the prettiestguy.
(16:48):
But yeah, you know, and again, Idon't I have to.
You know sense of humor thatcomes along with medicine.
Some days you got to have thosethings to kind of pad it.
But you know, back, know, backback to the stuff, though.
Is that before we?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
go on.
If that's, you just made a verygood point too.
I believe that you know what dothey call it?
I call it sometimes dark humor,I sometimes call it gallows
humor.
But to survive these jobs andeven first responder listening
to this will nodenthusiastically.
People who work in the yardswill will say, damn, right,
right.
And people who've been in themilitary will do so.
(17:20):
So I don't want to minimizethat, because a lot of people
who are civilians and I'mconsidered a civilian, I'm fine
with that.
Uh, don't get it, but I workedin an er.
I had to have a weird sense ofhumor in order to survive it.
Uh, right, so let's, let's notplay that down, because I hate
when people it's not, oh, youdon't care, it's not that I
don't care, but I need somethingto survive.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And you know, and being in community with others
that have been through thingswith you, I heard I think it was
an admiral that said once PTSDwould not be the problem in the
middle from from in veterans, ifyou just didn't leave the
military Right.
So what I would tell you outthere for first responders are
heroes that are on the frontlines every freaking day, both
there in the emergency rooms andevery place else.
Don't lose your community.
(18:01):
And, yeah, those six hits ofhumors.
People don't need to overhearthat stuff, right, but it's how
we cope with it.
And you know, look, I know yourlisteners that have been
through this are probably goingto tell this, and I just had to
do a shoot in Phoenix for themovie and I told a story I
didn't think I'd ever tell onfilm.
the story was about a time whereI was learning forgiveness and
(18:23):
I won't go into great detailother than um yeah, it was a it
was I'll keep it for the movie,but I will say for your
listeners it was a murder,suicide of a father that had
been raping his daughter sinceshe was seven.
And you know, for each ofeverybody out there is listening
to this, the father did notmake it.
I pronounced him immediately.
Way too much gray matter goneand I was working on the
(18:43):
daughter, who's not 35.
And she was telling me howgreat this guy was.
You know, and I'm just lookingover there and I want to tell
you there's guilt that comessometimes with me in my head,
thinking I am so glad that MF isdead, right, and you walk out
of that with a little bit ofguilt.
I shouldn't feel that way aboutanother human being, but guess
what?
(19:03):
It's okay, that was a bad humanbeing, but it's not something
you need to talk about to otherpeople that don't understand it.
But you've got to havecommunity in what you're doing.
Community and purpose Loss ofthose two things are big
malfunctions for a lot of people, and you can have that sense of
humor in your small community,but don't ever, ever, get away
(19:23):
from the power of community, andhaving people in there it can
help guide you through thisstuff, right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I agree.
And first of all, the onlything that came to mind
listening to this is for forpeople who are older.
There's an old arrow Smith songcalled Janie's Got a Gun.
That's all I could think ofwhen you were saying that story.
And if you don't know that song, go listen to it, you'll
understand.
But no, and I think that that'sit is that you know we have our
(19:50):
thoughts and then everyone insociety tells us wow, that
thought's wrong.
You can't feel that way,charlie.
Well, within our smallcommunity, most people go.
I get it, I absolutely get it,and I think that sometimes in
the community like, oh, that'snot appropriate.
Listen, I don't deal withappropriate shit.
Anyway, I don't deal with youknow whose Rolls Royce we're
(20:13):
going to take to go to thisdinner.
I don't deal with that shit.
I deal with very, very hardstuff and I can't really have a
sense.
I can't have always the senseof humor that's appropriate, but
I try to keep it to the rightpeople.
That's why me and charlie callregularly so we can get it out
of our system right and trust me, we're gonna have so much fun
down.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I can't go.
When you come down for thatshow buddy um, so much fun,
we're gonna spray tan you for it.
Uh, we're gonna have.
Yeah, get it going um, but nogo on youtube and see that one.
Guys, this could be a match anda stick of dynamite mixed
together when we do this, butwe're gonna do it, brother, um
no, so you know what I tellpeople is I'm sober now, I don't
(20:54):
drink anymore.
I'm more dangerous than when Iwas drinking yeah, right,
because now I have no excuse Ican have to.
I can do it all the time.
Now, right, I can be me all thetime.
So you know, it's interesting no, no, we'd have a great time.
We're gonna have a great time.
You know it's uh, community andpurpose are two big things.
You know, I've got, uh, I'vegot a concept.
I've been working on a bit umfor for getting some information
(21:18):
out too, and we've been tryingto think of what I want to call
this show and finally we figuredout the name of the show is
going to be Dr CharlieA-B-N-Normal Because abnormal,
right, and you don't get muchmore abnormal than me, buddy,
and I'll include you in myfamily circle of abnormal.
But it's really celebrating thefact that the uh, the fact that
(21:39):
we're all abnormal, they'reabnormal is the normal, and it's
okay not to be okay.
And you know what?
Celebrate your abnormality.
Talk about it, because I thinkmaybe, if we did, maybe mental
health wouldn't have the suchthe damn stigma that it does.
You know that that's reallywhere I hope this movie goes and
I'm really pushing for healingheroes.
(21:59):
No mind left behind to go isthat people watch the story of
these six amazing heroes, which,for you, those heroes out there
that are listening, that arebattling this every day, or
might tell you the story aboutthe police officer I pulled over
the other night, but, um,anyway, they're battling this
every day.
It's okay, and it's okay totalk about it because you're not
.
There's nothing wrong with you,right?
(22:20):
This is, this is stuff that youput any system under the right
amount of stress, it's goingcrack.
What will be the be?
The problem is if you don't dosomething about it, right, if
you don't address it and talk tosomebody here that bottled up
for decades, it's just nothealthy, man, you wake up one
day and you're covered in inkand you're crazy, you know, um,
but uh, no, that's just me, nothat that's.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's okay.
I think most people need that Iwant to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I want to tell you about a story about a police
officer.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I pulled over right, I listen I listen, I was I'm
waiting for that story becausewhen you said about I just want
to add one thing when people usethis is a long time ago, no one
comes and does this with meanymore.
When you got a business calledstraight to the point therapy,
don't people don't come in likethat.
But when I worked in acommunity mental health, someone
would come in and say I justwant to be normal.
(23:08):
I said you're not aiming high,are you?
And that got me in troublesometimes.
But I'm like who wants to benormal and who the hell is
normal?
Yeah, why?
Like who wants to?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
be normal.
And who the hell is normal?
Yeah, why settle?
Because the definition ofnormal, I guess most people
would say, is well whateverybody else is.
Well, I got an old thing when Iwas a practicing physician all
patients lie, that's just therule of thumb.
And not faulting anybodydoctors and providers we're the
worst patients of all.
So don't think I'm knocking youat all.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
But I've been coughing many days, only a
couple of days, only a couple.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Um, how long has that testicle been a size of a
softball?
Oh, just a couple of weeks.
There is no way it's been acouple of weeks, right, and
don't even get me on some warstories.
Um, so what's the?
What is it with drinking?
The rule of three multiplytimes three.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Oh yeah, that was mine too.
Like oh, you say, you only hadthree drinks, that means nine.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
And if they're, and if they're, like me, from
Louisiana, you multiply timessix, so that's just how it goes.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
My regulars.
I always knew.
But some of the regulars got toknow me and they would be
actually like, oh, I'll be, Iknow I can be honest with you.
So they tell me like 15 and I'mlike I appreciate the honesty
we're all scared of judgmentright judgment by who?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
somebody else?
That's abnormal.
Don't be scared about that.
If they're judging you becausethey're abnormal, it's because
they're more insecure than youare.
Deal with it, all right.
I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
it's the same thing with drugs.
When people would say I mean,you know, oh, five bags of
heroin, I'm like, yeah, ok,whatever, that means what?
At least a gram a day, twograms a day.
And then people would be like,how do you know?
I'm like lucky guess.
And then the other part, too,that I always found interesting
is that oh, it's my favorite oneis I had a guy leave jail and
(24:53):
tell me that he only usedopioids two to three times a
week.
I'm like I've never met someonewho does that ever.
So please do not lie to me.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Well, yeah, there's no sense in it.
You know, I had one guy it wasactually a young lady, not that
one, she was in her mid thirtiesand she, you could tell she was
beautiful.
At one point, and I asked herhow long she'd been on crystal
meth, she goes, how'd you know?
I said, because you're wearinga shirt, that says my birthstone
is crystal meth.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You can't make this shit up.
You cannot make this shit makeit up.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You can't make it up.
Yeah, I thought the shirt washilarious, but it it was.
It was a great.
It was a great uh.
It was a great opportunity tobuild a relationship with it.
But no, I was uh.
But no, I was going down theroad the other day.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I want to hear this police officer story.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you remember my back storyis that back in 22, I sold
everything.
I sold very big.
I mean I did really well.
That was the most unhappy I'dever been in my life.
I mean, you think everybodythat's got the American dream
the money, the cars, everything,blah, blah, blah.
Got the American dream, themoney, the cars, everything,
blah, blah, blah.
No, I was miserable man.
(26:04):
I couldn't get out of bed onthe weekends but anyway.
So, um, I had some leftoversfrom that life because I walked
away from most of it all.
One of them was this reallybeautiful McLaren that um was in
the shop the majority of thetime.
Right, sorry, british cars havenot been good to me, but, um,
but it was in the shop most ofthe time McLarens too.
And well you know, the Britishcars just all seem to have
messed up grills.
(26:25):
Will you get it?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Okay, look at my teeth, but anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
All right, all right, so I digress.
But no, with the McLaren I wasin the shop a lot.
So when I would drive it, Iwould enjoy it.
So when I would drive it, Iwould enjoy it.
And I was out on the highwayand I was talking to one of the
participants actually from theshow who was having a rough time
after her father passed.
And I look in my mirror and redand blues and I am looked down,
I'm doing 91 like oopsie.
You don't even realize it.
(26:51):
In this vehicle Right now Iwill say oh God, please don't
judge me.
This is my license plate framesaid may I Retired porn star.
My license plate frame said mayI Retired porn star?
And it was just there for ajoke, right, it was just there
for a joke.
My license plate frame saysretired porn star.
And you know business that, hey, it's not far off.
But I remember it took me awhile to get pulled over because
(27:13):
it was a tollway.
And once we got off he came up.
He was very nice, I had myhands on the steering wheel
because I can look, I can looksketchy as all get out Right.
And he comes up and we'retalking for a little bit and
said I don't have my license, Ididn't bring my wallet.
I'm sorry, but I have my.
I have my number memorized andhere's my.
I haven't had my passport, mybackpack, but anyway.
(27:34):
So he's very, very nice guy andso, in it all, he stops before
he goes back.
He goes by the way, what do youdo for a living?
I'm like not what my licenseplate says, I swear to God.
He starts laughing a little bit.
He goes.
No, what do you do?
And I told him about the show.
He goes.
Wow, I said, you know, I'm notsaying this to get off.
(27:56):
A guys are out there becauseyou have to treat everybody like
a friendly.
We're at war, you know who theenemy is mostly not all the time
and you know somebody's a badguy.
Now you're always on guard.
I said but you guys have to beon guard and treat everybody
like a friendly until youidentify they're not and then
act quickly and save your buttand everybody else is around you
(28:16):
.
And he goes.
He starts to tear up a bitRight and um, I can see it.
He goes back to his car.
He comes back and he hands me awarning.
He goes.
Hey, I would have given you thewarning.
In a way, I just appreciate youbeing honest about everything.
Um, he goes um, I, I, I.
I suffer from it too.
I said let's talk, brother, hegoes um.
(28:38):
I said but look, here's, here'smy number.
And I said you give me a call.
He called me two days later andwe talked about it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And he talked about.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Usually it's a 24 hour window right, I know I was
so surprised it was at 48,.
Right, I was very surprised itwas at 48, which tells me it
took some courage buildup or hewas on shift or you know he lost
my number.
But anyway, he told me about anincident where he was pulling
over, looked like a friendly andthen the shotgun went off from
(29:06):
the back seat, through the door,hit him, and he relives that
every time he walks up to a damnvehicle.
Now he goes.
He won my respect when I sawboth your hands on your steering
wheel and you were so open tome.
I said and plus, I didn't havea back seat.
So there you go.
And he chuckled and I said man,look, I've got some good people
I want to hook you up with.
I don't think I don't know ifyou need the power and the level
(29:27):
of what I do and where I guidethese people.
I said but you've got thebiggest respect for me.
I mean, you guys are heroes andevery single day I think
underappreciated and what youhave to put up with.
But can I make a recommendationto you?
He goes, yeah sure.
I said are you married?
He goes 14 years.
(29:52):
And I said would you also lookat therapy with your wife.
He goes yeah, yeah, sure, why Isaid you wouldn't believe how
much it affects them to watch usgo through it and give her the
love she deserves to, and he didso.
My story is I pulled him overthat night right Because the
serendipity and how it allworked out I got a warning.
It was a great opportunity toheal.
So, yeah, that's my story.
(30:13):
I pulled over a police officer,a hero.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Very great story and absolutely something that is.
I know that healing heroestalks about it too, but never
neglect the family members andwhat they go through and the
resentment sometimes and thenumber of times they bite their
tongue not to comment on shit.
Um, because they don't want tomake you feel bad right they
(30:38):
don't want to make you feel bad,right.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
They don't want to make you feel worse than you
already feel, because you don'twant to make them feel like
they're doing a bad job becausethey've already been through so
much.
But at the same time, theconversations aren't happening
the other direction because theydon't want you to know how
screwed up they are.
Big breakdown there.
Big breakdown.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
They are big breakdown there, big breakdown.
I think that what what I?
I wish there was a betterservice about treating the
family members as much astreating the actual officers
firefighters, emts, paramedicsyou know I'm not trying to
neglect anyone military, erstaff, correction staff because
the family members go throughtheir own stuff.
(31:23):
You know, like what's that oldWorld War II saying, the
thousand mile stare?
Oh yeah, and I've certainlyagain not comparing myself to
any one of those people, butwhen you work in the emergency
room and you hear some fucked upshit, there's days where I
walked into my, my home, and itwas like my then wife said to me
(31:44):
bad day, huh, I'm like you haveno clue, but she knew to leave
me alone because she didn't, andthen of course she was
suffering, and then fordifferent reasons and I'm not
putting my putting her stuff outthere, that's her own shit and
I respect her, so I don't wantto do that, but ultimately I
also made her go through stuffbecause of that.
Um yeah, no doubt, no doubt,you can't forget about the
(32:07):
family.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Well, and I'll I'll share my personal story.
I mean, 30 years with anindividual.
It's like why not just get itto the end, where it is far
Right.
But, um, you know, when I wentthrough my healing and I have
the same good things to sayabout my ex um is that, um, you
know she had to put up with somuch over that time.
And, look, I wasn't abusive, Iwasn't violent, but I was
(32:31):
isolated.
And that isolation, ladies andgentlemen out there listening,
brothers and sisters, it'spainful when they're isolated
from you, but they don't feelcomfortable talking to you about
it.
But they see it.
Look, I was getting up everytwo hours with night terrors and
I would, literally, I wouldhave sleep paralysis.
(32:51):
I would wake up and I wouldfeel hands grabbing my ankles to
yank me out of the bed intohell.
Who the hell am I going to tellthat to?
Right, I was a practicingphysician with a medical license
that gets out.
Oh, suddenly I can't pay thebills anymore.
I know some of you feel thesame way, but if you don't
address it, you're hurting thosethat you're out there doing it
(33:12):
for.
You're out there working andbusting your asses out there,
putting your ass on the line,the people you love, but they're
also the ones that aresuffering because what comes
home to them is a lesser versionthan what they deserve.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Right, and I'm going to go even further than what you
said and I'm going to dig alittle deeper.
The silence that you put yourpartner through when you're
going through your own stuff inthe silence.
You may not consider thatverbal abuse or trauma in that
way, but it is absolutely verbalabuse and trauma.
(33:46):
And if you don't believe me, gowithout talking to your partner
for eight hours straight,purposefully, and know how much
it affects them and see how longyou can really resist not
talking.
And sometimes that silence canbe also as bad.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
It can be.
I mean, there's effectivesilence, right to bring the
truth out in some cases, thepregnant pause and everything,
but the prolonged silence.
I'm going to say this and it'sgoing to sound really strong,
but I'm going to step on a ledgeand say this it's as bad as
being unfaithful.
And let me say why.
Let me put it together.
I agree, by the way.
What is infidel?
What is in unfaithfulness?
(34:23):
Unfaithful means you have lostfaith in somebody and you, when
you've been unfaithful, you'velost faith in them.
That's what it means unfaithful.
And that's exactly what you'redoing with the silence.
You're being unfaithful to themthat they can handle it and
that they're your partner andthey can help you get through it
.
And it may be appropriateunfaithfulness because they
(34:46):
don't have the tools to dealwith either, right, but I'm just
saying, put it on that If youwant to level set, how great,
how office is, people put a lotof times infidelity is the worst
thing you possibly do.
Unfaithfulness and that silence.
I put it pretty much on a closelevel, my opinion well, I, you
know.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
You know unfaithfulness is not the number
one cause of divorce.
Most people think it is, butit's not.
Number one is financialstressors, and then lack of
communication is number three,or something like that.
Um, so, you know, when youthink about the people, and I
think fourth or fifth is beingunfaithful, physically or
(35:26):
psychologically, whatever peoplelike to call it, I don't care.
But the point is, is that tryagain, if you ever try?
If someone doesn't talk to youfor a day, eight hours a week,
and they just look pissed orthey act pissed or they say
things that are pissy when theydo do talk, that's more torture
to me than going on a call wheresomeone wants to jump to me.
(35:50):
That's more like that's moretorture, because the jump, I
hate to say it.
And if I'm again too colloquialhere, you go after me.
Guys, I go to the call.
It never lasts more than anhour.
We succeed or we don't, and I'mnot trying to say that that's
good, I'm just saying we succeedor we don't.
And then you go to the nextcall Eight hours of.
(36:13):
I don't know what I did wrongor what's wrong with him.
Is he mad at me?
All those questions that yougot to ponder for your own.
60,000, 80,000 thoughts in aday and sitting with that,
that's more tortured than anhour.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Call Just for the record, that's, that's powerful,
it really is and very well said, communication.
You know it's.
It's essential in relationshipand you know they.
This was not really describedwhen I went through school
nearly three decades ago, butthe avoidant, dismissive
relationship type, right wherethey're the carpet sweepers and
(36:49):
then they just dismiss it, it'slike folks imagine having the
dirty house.
It's the person that justthrows everything in the closet
and that closet door is justbulging at times.
Right.
By the way, I'm going to add acontraindication to psychedelic
medicine.
Use that one, because you'regoing to let everything out at
one time and if they still don'thave the tools to process it,
(37:12):
whoa, you're going to have adangerous situation.
But no avoidant dismissives arevery common and basically they
just don I'm a bulldozer.
I am a bulldozer, I like to gointo the problem, fix the
problem, move on.
At least that's who I am now.
I wasn't.
I wasn't avoiding to a certainextent on my own problems, but I
(37:33):
was a bulldozer and everybodyelse's just.
Uh, I guess, pay attention toyourself and how you deal with
it.
If you find that you're one ofthe avoidant people and you're
not talking, not letting it out.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
It's not going going away.
It's still in the closet rightand I think that what you just
counter indicated, I will um addto it.
I do, I movement reprocess.
Uh, why am I?
Okay, I just came back fromvacation.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Truthfully, emdr, get the car you bring, bring, bring
I, I movement, desensitizationand reprocessing.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Thank, thank you very much Boom.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
yes.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And when people ask me when do I do it With people,
I said not until I know them forsix months.
And people are like that'scrazy and I'm like no, because
you're going to be opening up acan of worms that's going to
open other channels.
That might be things that youhaven't talked about to anyone
in years, if ever haven't talkedabout to anyone in years, if
ever.
And if you don't have theinherent trust of the person in
(38:29):
front of you, I think that thatplays a huge factor of how
you're going to be in EMDR againin the future.
So my two rules are six monthsor you're seeing a therapist I
know and trust, and then, yeah,you can come in, because maybe
they don't do EMDR and I do it.
So you can come in, I'll doyour EMDR, knowing that you can
go process that with them andthey trust in me.
(38:50):
So you trust me because of that.
But ultimately, when we go intoa lot of trauma work, you have
no clue what's going to come out, because what you've opened up
will open up shit underneaththere that you haven't seen in
years the wall over the wallover the wall that we talked
about earlier.
So you got to make sure you dothat properly.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
You know, steve, I'll say this is.
This has been one of the bestWestern sizzling buffets we
could ever have.
On topics right, becausethere's been some great ones out
there, or golden corral, let'sgo.
That's golden corral level ofbuffet.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
They're coming back.
Baby, they're coming back.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
But corral level of buffet coming back.
Baby, they're coming back, butum, you know it's um.
But.
All great topics and and greattidbits on this, but I I will
tell you about emdr.
I am the biggest fan of whatI've seen it do.
In fact, we did not incorporateemdr into the first set of
series of people coming throughthis because of that fact that,
a well, it's just still learningabout its efficacy and I mean I
(39:49):
see great things from it.
And and for anybody out therethat's listening to this that
has sat there and says I've donetalk therapy, I've done group
therapy, I've done ssris, snri,blah blah, right, give emdr a
chance with somebody that knowswhat they're doing.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Right now I'm like, look, if I, if I didn't believe
in EMDR, I wouldn't do it myself.
But I definitely do EMDR and toomany people and I'm going to
save names, obviously becauseclinical information but there's
some people who come to me andsay I did EMDR, that was great,
but then they didn't give me anytools in the back or in the
(40:27):
front in order to deal withother traumas that might've come
up.
And now I feel as fucked up asI was previous to my EMDR.
And this is years and years ago.
Someone mentioned that to meand since then that's been my
process, my practice of doingEMDR only with people who are in
therapy, with someone theytrust or me, for at least six
months so that they can trust mewhen the harder shit comes up.
(40:48):
And I think that that's why theEMDR process of eight to 12
weeks sounds really, really goodfor most people, but for me,
after eight weeks and you'refeeling better, you still need
to process stuff because you'vegot to develop the skills and if
you trauma right, you got togive skills as well as process
it.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Right Before you start, you've got to have the
tools right, and if you didn'thave the tools when the traumas
happened, if you didn't havethem when you were younger,
because you've been an avoidant,dismissive type person your
whole life, that just pushes itaway.
You need to get the tools.
You know another topic and wecan hold this for another show
if you want to, but why don't weteach emotional intelligence in
schools?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
You can hold this for another show if you want to,
but why don't we teach emotionalintelligence in schools?
You know, you mentioned that inthe last one and we didn't even
talk about it today.
What I want to do is, when I godown to cancun, we can start
about emotional intelligence,because let's do it to do that
and, you know, get ready foryour release, as we.
You know, I'm looking at thetime.
I really want to keep it toabout this amount of time.
So, you know, let's talk aboutsomething to me that's again
getting very clear, that it'sgetting dear to my heart is I
(41:54):
want to hear about HealingHeroes.
I know that you're talkingabout a second trailer coming
out for Memorial Day.
And I can't wait to hear moreabout it, like how is it going
to be from?
I thought you were saying sixto nine weeks of a series to a
movie.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
That's a lot of cutting.
That's a lot of cutting, butit's got a lot of impact.
Just imagine it this way.
I chose this strategicallybecause, yes, it's a lot of
cutting, it's a lot ofcompacting and, yeah, there's
going to be a lot of things thatcan come out and supplemental,
or people can go to the YouTubeand watch or to our website and
watch right To get thebackground and some of the
better stories definitely thegag reels.
You got to see the gag reelsbut it's um, but it's beautiful
(42:33):
stories that you know.
Attention span these days hasgotten so short because of
social media and the way it'sstructured, that we want to be
very impactful.
But then once the streamerpicks up the movie, they get to
pick up the series and ourspinoff, squared Away Nation,
the TV show, which is a secondshow that's coming out Really
cool show on that and it'sactually showing the solidarity
(42:53):
of veterans and first respondersand how they can solve
community problems.
But anyway, so you know when itcomes out.
So let me tell you this Firstof all, we launched our first
trailer on Veterans Day of lastyear and I was honestly looking
for maybe a million views in acouple of months.
We have something to approachthe streamers with.
We had 4 million views in threeand a half days.
(43:15):
It was that powerful, wow.
And ain't seen nothing yet.
Baby right, when this comes outon Memorial Day, I think it's
going to be the biggest splash.
It's going to be great cuts wedecided to take.
I decided to take a direction Iwasn't really willing to at
first, and that's to tell my ownstory, which you know we tend
(43:35):
to hold those things dear toheart.
But one of the directors on theshows is just like Charlie,
it's your story that startedthis.
It's got to be the story thatstarts telling the story.
And boy, it's a lot ofone-sided counseling, maybe
right into the camera, right?
Yeah, it's scary to do that,but I kept thinking to myself
(43:57):
this is going to help otherpeople this vulnerability people
think vulnerability is aweakness.
It's not.
It's a strength, and so I hopeyou see that in this and
understand that PTSD is not adiagnosis of special forces, of
combat, of war, of even firstresponders and those that are on
the front line that called mecrazy for what I did when I left
(44:24):
and walked away from everything.
What are you doing.
You've killed your brain.
You just ruined yourself.
Right, I was already ruined,guys.
I just made it better and Icame out the best version of
myself.
But I tell them what systembreaks down in the body
enzymatically or from a viralinfection, or something breaks
in the body to cause depression,insomnia, anxiety, right, it is
(44:46):
stress, it is trauma, it islife.
It's the challenging things inlife that we just didn't learn
the lesson from.
So why are we treating it theway that we are just putting a
pill on it to mask the symptoms,to control the symptoms, and
not getting back to the reasonwhy it happened to us?
Because chances are the worstit was, the better the learnings
you can come from it.
(45:07):
Because I challenge anybody outthere imagine the biggest
accomplishments you've ever hadin life and tell me which one
was it hard or difficult to getthrough.
So now look back on this andsay then let me carry something
home from this, and the onlything that does that is working
with guys like Steve that areout there to help guide you
through it, to untie thenegative emotion to the past,
(45:28):
learn a lesson from it and jumpinto your body and move forward.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
I can't say anything other than there's nothing more
fascinating to me than any TVshow, movie, reality, whatever
you want to call it of a persontalking about their own problems
and like a monologue, as somepeople have mentioned it.
But to me that's the mostpowerful thing.
(45:53):
And when you put yourself outthere, there's always that risk.
And I will tell you, Charlie,the little that I know.
I can't wait to hear it.
But, more importantly, puttingyourself out there takes a lot
of guts, takes a lot of courage,but you'll be shocked how many
people will be supportive of you, and I will be one of them.
Whether we get along or not inCancun, I'll still support you
(46:17):
and I really I give a highlikelihood of good time.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Right, we're going to have a great time.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
I mean, I'm looking forward to it.
I mentioned it already twice ona podcast ask how many people I
do that.
But on this note, charlie, Igotta wrap it up.
I will see you in cancunsometime at in the beginning of
the fall, and we're gonna getready for that release on
veterans day.
But first and foremost, in acouple of days Day, we'll be
(46:44):
releasing the second trailer.
I will attach it as soon asit's out, and I will put the
trailer of the first trailerfrom a couple of months ago on
there too.
Charlie, thank you so much forcoming on again.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Hey, if you ever need me, I'm here for you too.
Steve, Just let me know.
I'm glad to do anything withyou.
You're fun to work with.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Thank you, charlie, you do great work, and you do
deserve a cape.
Well, thank you, charlie, Iwill wear it and I'll see you
guys on episode 206.
Thank you very much.
Well, that completes episode205.
Again, charlie Powell, thankyou so much for coming.
Come back for episode 206,where we're going to talk to
Cindy Doyle, and I hope you joinus.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(47:47):
No-transcript.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where
strength meets strategy andcourage to help you move forward
.
Each week, your host, steveBisson, a therapist with over
two decades of experience in thefirst responder community,
brings you powerfulconversations about resilience,
growth and healing throughtrauma and grief.
Whether you're navigating thecomplex journey of grief,
(00:22):
processing trauma or seeking tobuild resilience in high-stress
environments, this podcast isyour trusted companion.
From first responders facingdaily challenges to emergency
personnel managing criticalsituations, to leaders carrying
the weight of difficultdecisions, we're here to support
your journey.
Through authentic interviews,expert discussions and
(00:43):
real-world experiences, we divedeep into the heart of human
resilience.
We explore crucial topics liketrauma recovery, grief
processing, stress managementand emotional well-being.
Our conversations bridge thegap between professional insight
and practical application,offering you tools and
strategies that work in the realworld.
(01:03):
Join us as we create a spacewhere healing is possible, where
grief finds understanding andwhere resilience becomes your
foundation for growth.
This is Resilience Developmentin Action with Steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'll always change up those intros because I think
it's important.
Welcome to episode 205.
If you haven't listened toepisode 204, Beth Saldo was on.
She had great stories.
I hope you go back and listento it.
I really enjoyed talking to her.
But yeah, we had my next gueston for episode 200.
But because he has a veryimportant project coming out and
(01:38):
I'll let him talk about itduring the interview.
Charlie Powell is back andwe're going to talk about
Healing Heroes.
We're going to talk about howit has evolved and where it's
going to be, and I hope youenjoy the interview.
And here it is.
(02:01):
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Yes, you've heard me talk aboutit previously in other episodes
, but I've heard me talk aboutit previously in other episodes,
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(02:21):
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But it goes above and beyondthat.
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(02:43):
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(03:49):
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Well, hi everyone and welcome toepisode 205.
Look, returning guests alreadybeen on the show.
About a month ago was on thepremiere show, Love Charlie.
(04:11):
So much having Charlie back onCharlie Powell, Dr Charlie
Powell, but I call him Charlieand I think everyone else does.
But welcome back to ResilienceDevelopment in Action.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Absolutely.
You know, and I will be yourMatt Damon to Jimmy Kimmel any
day.
I'm glad to come on your showand you know we'll just have a
good time with it.
I really enjoyed that time wespent together.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, but we got to be a little more hostile towards
each other.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
if we're going to do that, Please let's talk about
the bikinis and capes again.
We're good, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Look, we destroyed some fantasies this morning
already.
Uh, this is not good, um, butthe one good thing is, you know,
I know you're going to talkabout it during the course of
this episode, but I hear thatwe're getting closer to a
release date and we're lookingfor, um, healing heroes, and I
know we talked about it the lasttime, but one of the things
that charlie brought up while wewere chatting besides the
french maid outfit, and forthose, those in my group, you
(05:08):
will find this even morehilarious, and if you want the
story, write to me or Charlie,we'll let you know.
But we were talking also aboutsomething very serious how PTSD
and addiction is really relatedto one another.
And I know that when you'rehealing heroes, ptsd and
addiction really comes hand inhand.
And I know that you know whenyou're healing heroes, ptsd and
addiction really comes hand inhand.
And you know, I know that'sgoing to be released very, you
(05:30):
know, in the next year.
So I wanted to talk about that alittle more, because most
people don't understand therelationship between PTSD and
addiction.
They think that you know peoplewho can't handle their shit are
actually drinking or doingdrugs.
But it's not exactly that easy.
Can you want to talk about it alittle more?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
No, no, I'd be glad to you know it's interesting.
So the show Healing Heroes noMind Left Behind again, just to
remind everybody is is us takingsix veterans and well, six
heroes, right, veterans andfirst responders we had fire
department New York, policedepartment New Jersey in there
and bringing them down forhealing.
They couldn't find here in theStates because it's not legal
(06:09):
here.
It just hasn't even studiedhere and after 26 years of being
in medicine I'm like WTF guys,why is this not here?
Why did I suffer for twodecades myself with PTSD and
partial treatment and thenstumble across this and go down
and find immense healing?
(06:30):
So, long story short, we takethese people down there to go
through very innovative programsthat bring in multiple
philosophies, not just fromWestern medicine and look, I'm
not knocking Western medicineright.
It's got some of the besttechnology out there, but we're
lacking in certain areas and inmy humble opinion to all my
great friends out there inpsychiatry and psychology, I
think we're just scraping thesurface on some things and so
many times we're just trying totreat it with another damn pill
(06:51):
when we're not getting to thesource of what we're doing.
So the show is about goingthrough the steps of healing.
Now, in these six individualsthat we brought down, we also
had to kind of knock thebarriers down aggressively.
They had such thick cementwalls around their radioactivity
that we had to use two words Inever thought would be used
together psychedelic andmedicine to do that Right.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So you, talk about those walls for a second.
I want to interrupt you becausepeople don't understand the
walls that you create,especially for veterans and
first responders.
You need to have those walls tosurvive sometimes, and then
sometimes those walls become sobig you're not surviving.
You're starving yourself fromthat tension from outside of the
world.
But please tell me more aboutthat.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Let me tell you the analogy I like to use.
So I worked trauma ER for anumber of years.
It was I was adrenaline junkie.
It was just kind of my thing.
I was so good at it because youturn off the emotion.
I had a tactic of just goingquick, and it was probably from
the first Gulf War, learningjust to do personalized and
separate yourself out fromthings.
But it got so easy to turn itoff and I worked so much I just
(07:56):
turned it off.
So I like this analogy.
So it's like you're sitting inyour car and you're listening to
the radio and you think, man,this car's got a crappy radio,
it's got static in it.
Right, Just a little bit.
You're trying to listen to yourfavorite music, but every time
you turn it up you got morestatic.
So eventually, when you work inthis and you're constantly
daily, weekly, monthly, whateverexperiencing things in life
(08:17):
that most people don't havethrown at them nor are we
prepared for, have the tools tohandle.
It's easy to turn the radiodown.
Or, in the case of the walls,you build walls around it and
then you do that so you can comeback and deal with it later.
Problem is we just don't takethe time to do that.
Instead, stuff starts leakingout.
(08:38):
You start having symptoms ofanxiety.
Well, what is anxiety?
It's fear without a focus.
Well, where's it coming from?
Probably one of those leakywalls you're not dealing with in
the past.
Let's go find it and sometimes,like in my situation when I
went through my healing inAugust of 23, the traumas aren't
(08:59):
even things we recognize astraumas.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So let's talk about the relationship real quick, you
know when I had this.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Every once in a while I squeezeout a good one, right drug or
alcohol use.
And then when we got down there,we found out that over half of
(09:28):
them were exactly honest.
I'm not going to say which half.
I love them.
They are my family, y'all aremy soul.
Love you guys.
But they were struggling butthey left that 10 days
addiction-free, sober and healed.
It was amazing.
Now tell me what program in theStates does that right?
So that was the whole premisebehind what was going to be the
TV series, because I just put mymoney where my mouth was.
(09:50):
I'm like we're going to do thewhole series, but we had an
opportunity since I saw you last, and that is to change this
from a series into a theatricalrelease.
And so November 11th we'regoing to do a theatrical release
.
Through right now, amc Theatersshouldn't say anything.
Okay, I'll let that one leak alittle bit.
But no, I think you guys areabout to see a new trailer come
(10:13):
out around Memorial Day, a bigtrailer for this this is being
released a weekend before yourtrailer, so I can't wait for the
trailer to be out man.
That'd be awesome.
That'd be awesome.
I got some time to get in shape.
Maybe look really good for thetrailer.
Give you a David Hasselhoff orsomething, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
I hear I'm going to Cancun in October, so please
let's keep on subject here.
But we'll keep on going.
But hey, listen, you're goingto see me in my bikini on the
because, so that's going to be agreat podcast.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
I'm buying you a cape , sir, because you do good in
this world, all right, so as weyank the wheel back on track
which both of us are dangerousfor that, but no.
So look at that.
So it really teaches you tocross ties between addiction and
PTSD, and you're right.
A lot of people think and it istrue to some cases, there's no
absolutes here that peoplebecome addicts because they're
(11:07):
self-medicating, and that's truein some cases that they've
dealt with so much the alcohol,the street drugs, the
prescription drugs, whateverthey start becoming a modality
of self-medication.
But it goes back further thanthat.
You can find plenty of addictsthat don't identify as having
(11:30):
PTSD.
But their addiction may havestarted earlier in life.
But the same commonality tracesback usually to trauma in
childhood.
In fact, most cases of PTSDdon't start in adulthood.
Yeah, it may have be when I was19 in the first Gulf War, or it
may have been when I was 28 anda trauma surgeon at a big
hospital that I saw a lot ofshit you just should not have to
(11:51):
see in this world.
But it really traced back forme to a near drowning experience
I had when I was about threeand a half years old and so and
I didn't even see that as thattraumatic so easily easily, my
path could have been different.
My path could have been no war,no, no ER trauma, stuff, none
(12:12):
of that.
But I could still wound up withan addiction because there was
something there undealt with.
You know, levine, I think,defines trauma as what is it?
Something that comes at you toofast, too much and too soon,
meaning you don't have the toolsto deal with it, right, right,
I mean amazing thought.
Now I've got a slightlydifferent addendum to that
(12:33):
definition, because I can neverreplace the awesomeness of that
definition.
But it's something from thepast that is taking up bandwidth
of your present, robbing you ofyour future, right, wow?
And so you look at yeah, no,maybe the Levine Powell thing, I
don't know, maybe someday.
And so there's so much to that,though that kind of gives the
(12:56):
other side explanation.
But trauma and addiction someof it is self-medication, but a
lot of it is just thecommonality of things we're not
dealing with, that are walledoff, and it's been so long ago
we don't even realize it orremember it.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Right and I feel like I should just permanently
attach the ACEs adverse childevents onto every podcast that I
do, because most people willsee what their score is.
The threshold is four out of 10, to be quote diagnosed with
PTSD.
I don't believe in diagnosis, Ijust believe in tendencies.
But most people who work inemergency rooms, people who are
(13:34):
first responders, people in themilitary, usually score in the
seven to eight range and, by theway, same as people in
corrections, people who are boththe correction staff and the
people in the cells.
So I think that what I you know, one of my favorites quotes
this is from a good friend ofmine.
He's on the mental men, patRice.
(13:54):
If you ever watch, listen tothese episodes, he says that
everything comes down to griefor trauma and if you really
really think about it, anydiagnosis that you can create
comes from grief and or traumaand I believe that firmly and
that's what you're kind of likenear drowning experience.
I mean, that's, you know, likefor me, what people want to know
(14:14):
.
I've said this numerous timeson this podcast.
My best friend died when I was12 and I was basically told well
, you better play better infootball because he's on my
football team because he won'tbe there.
And that was my you know mygrief process.
And again, I don't hold thatagainst anyone for the record.
I always keep on reminding thatsome people say, oh, you sound
better, I'm not better.
(14:35):
It's just what happened and Ithink that that's not what made
me bitter.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Lots of other stuff made me bitter, but that that
right Exactly.
There's a lot of stuff thatmakes me better.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
But anyway, we talked about it previously to this
interview, but we can't repeatit on air because it's going to
be on air, but at the end of theday, I think that's what
happens is that we don't treatthat trauma and how we treat it,
and we do treat it in otherways.
But please go ahead.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
No, no, I mean, you made an important point, though
we don't.
We didn't treat as a trauma andI didn't see that as a trauma.
And I'll give you examples.
A lot of people are surprisedto find out that my major
traumas that I had to relivewhen I went through my healing
weren't for more time.
I mean, I started in 89 in thefirst Gulf war.
I ended in Afghan crisis.
That was the bookends of mymilitary career.
(15:22):
But it was really my time at amajor hospital in trauma surgery
and ER that most of my unknowntraumas came from.
And you think about it In waryou get side A versus side B.
We're here.
One of the two of us is notgoing to make it out.
I hope it's you that doesn'tmake it out.
And we're no hard feelings guys, we both signed off on this.
The stuff from war that did getto me were civilian casualties
(15:47):
a lot of times, but that's whythe majority of my traumas came
from being in trauma ER was thatwhen you have a family of five
that's hit by a drunk driver whowalks away with a large hole in
his scalp because that's whatthe concrete gave him and that's
it, and the only survivor ofthe family of five is a
six-year-old little girl who'snow a paraplegic and has no
family to take care of her.
(16:07):
That messes you up.
After a period of time, I'lltell you a story.
It's a funny antidote.
Real quick I had to fix thehole in the guy's head and my
attending was like, what are yougoing to do?
I said he needs a skin graft.
He goes, this guy's going tojail tonight.
And I said, yes, sir, this guywas an old salty dog in the Navy
, right, like yes, sir.
And so I went in there and youhave to do a lot of what's
(16:28):
called tissue undermining.
You have to go through it.
But I closed this thing of thesize of a half dollar, to the
size of a pinhead, andeverybody's standing around
watching.
Wow, and that's great skills.
Look at this man.
Now I've removed the drape andthe guy's walking out like this,
right here.
Right, he can't close his righteye, but he went to jail good,
good, he wasn't the prettiestguy.
(16:48):
But yeah, you know, and again, Idon't I have to.
You know sense of humor thatcomes along with medicine.
Some days you got to have thosethings to kind of pad it.
But you know, back, know, backback to the stuff, though.
Is that before we?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
go on.
If that's, you just made a verygood point too.
I believe that you know what dothey call it?
I call it sometimes dark humor,I sometimes call it gallows
humor.
But to survive these jobs andeven first responder listening
to this will nodenthusiastically.
People who work in the yardswill will say, damn, right,
right.
And people who've been in themilitary will do so.
(17:20):
So I don't want to minimizethat, because a lot of people
who are civilians and I'mconsidered a civilian, I'm fine
with that.
Uh, don't get it, but I workedin an er.
I had to have a weird sense ofhumor in order to survive it.
Uh, right, so let's, let's notplay that down, because I hate
when people it's not, oh, youdon't care, it's not that I
don't care, but I need somethingto survive.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
And you know, and being in community with others
that have been through thingswith you, I heard I think it was
an admiral that said once PTSDwould not be the problem in the
middle from from in veterans, ifyou just didn't leave the
military Right.
So what I would tell you outthere for first responders are
heroes that are on the frontlines every freaking day, both
there in the emergency rooms andevery place else.
Don't lose your community.
(18:01):
And, yeah, those six hits ofhumors.
People don't need to overhearthat stuff, right, but it's how
we cope with it.
And you know, look, I know yourlisteners that have been
through this are probably goingto tell this, and I just had to
do a shoot in Phoenix for themovie and I told a story I
didn't think I'd ever tell onfilm.
the story was about a time whereI was learning forgiveness and
(18:23):
I won't go into great detailother than um yeah, it was a it
was I'll keep it for the movie,but I will say for your
listeners it was a murder,suicide of a father that had
been raping his daughter sinceshe was seven.
And you know, for each ofeverybody out there is listening
to this, the father did notmake it.
I pronounced him immediately.
Way too much gray matter goneand I was working on the
(18:43):
daughter, who's not 35.
And she was telling me howgreat this guy was.
You know, and I'm just lookingover there and I want to tell
you there's guilt that comessometimes with me in my head,
thinking I am so glad that MF isdead, right, and you walk out
of that with a little bit ofguilt.
I shouldn't feel that way aboutanother human being, but guess
what?
(19:03):
It's okay, that was a bad humanbeing, but it's not something
you need to talk about to otherpeople that don't understand it.
But you've got to havecommunity in what you're doing.
Community and purpose Loss ofthose two things are big
malfunctions for a lot of people, and you can have that sense of
humor in your small community,but don't ever, ever, get away
(19:23):
from the power of community, andhaving people in there it can
help guide you through thisstuff, right.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I agree.
And first of all, the onlything that came to mind
listening to this is for forpeople who are older.
There's an old arrow Smith songcalled Janie's Got a Gun.
That's all I could think ofwhen you were saying that story.
And if you don't know that song, go listen to it, you'll
understand.
But no, and I think that that'sit is that you know we have our
(19:50):
thoughts and then everyone insociety tells us wow, that
thought's wrong.
You can't feel that way,charlie.
Well, within our smallcommunity, most people go.
I get it, I absolutely get it,and I think that sometimes in
the community like, oh, that'snot appropriate.
Listen, I don't deal withappropriate shit.
Anyway, I don't deal with youknow whose Rolls Royce we're
(20:13):
going to take to go to thisdinner.
I don't deal with that shit.
I deal with very, very hardstuff and I can't really have a
sense.
I can't have always the senseof humor that's appropriate, but
I try to keep it to the rightpeople.
That's why me and charlie callregularly so we can get it out
of our system right and trust me, we're gonna have so much fun
down.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
I can't go.
When you come down for thatshow buddy um, so much fun,
we're gonna spray tan you for it.
Uh, we're gonna have.
Yeah, get it going um, but nogo on youtube and see that one.
Guys, this could be a match anda stick of dynamite mixed
together when we do this, butwe're gonna do it, brother, um
no, so you know what I tellpeople is I'm sober now, I don't
(20:54):
drink anymore.
I'm more dangerous than when Iwas drinking yeah, right,
because now I have no excuse Ican have to.
I can do it all the time.
Now, right, I can be me all thetime.
So you know, it's interesting no, no, we'd have a great time.
We're gonna have a great time.
You know it's uh, community andpurpose are two big things.
You know, I've got, uh, I'vegot a concept.
I've been working on a bit umfor for getting some information
(21:18):
out too, and we've been tryingto think of what I want to call
this show and finally we figuredout the name of the show is
going to be Dr CharlieA-B-N-Normal Because abnormal,
right, and you don't get muchmore abnormal than me, buddy,
and I'll include you in myfamily circle of abnormal.
But it's really celebrating thefact that the uh, the fact that
(21:39):
we're all abnormal, they'reabnormal is the normal, and it's
okay not to be okay.
And you know what?
Celebrate your abnormality.
Talk about it, because I thinkmaybe, if we did, maybe mental
health wouldn't have the suchthe damn stigma that it does.
You know that that's reallywhere I hope this movie goes and
I'm really pushing for healingheroes.
(21:59):
No mind left behind to go isthat people watch the story of
these six amazing heroes, which,for you, those heroes out there
that are listening, that arebattling this every day, or
might tell you the story aboutthe police officer I pulled over
the other night, but, um,anyway, they're battling this
every day.
It's okay, and it's okay totalk about it because you're not
.
There's nothing wrong with you,right?
(22:20):
This is, this is stuff that youput any system under the right
amount of stress, it's goingcrack.
What will be the be?
The problem is if you don't dosomething about it, right, if
you don't address it and talk tosomebody here that bottled up
for decades, it's just nothealthy, man, you wake up one
day and you're covered in inkand you're crazy, you know, um,
but uh, no, that's just me, nothat that's.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
That's okay.
I think most people need that Iwant to tell you.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
I want to tell you about a story about a police
officer.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I pulled over right, I listen I listen, I was I'm
waiting for that story becausewhen you said about I just want
to add one thing when people usethis is a long time ago, no one
comes and does this with meanymore.
When you got a business calledstraight to the point therapy,
don't people don't come in likethat.
But when I worked in acommunity mental health, someone
would come in and say I justwant to be normal.
(23:08):
I said you're not aiming high,are you?
And that got me in troublesometimes.
But I'm like who wants to benormal and who the hell is
normal?
Yeah, why?
Like who wants to?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
be normal.
And who the hell is normal?
Yeah, why settle?
Because the definition ofnormal, I guess most people
would say, is well whateverybody else is.
Well, I got an old thing when Iwas a practicing physician all
patients lie, that's just therule of thumb.
And not faulting anybodydoctors and providers we're the
worst patients of all.
So don't think I'm knocking youat all.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
But I've been coughing many days, only a
couple of days, only a couple.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Um, how long has that testicle been a size of a
softball?
Oh, just a couple of weeks.
There is no way it's been acouple of weeks, right, and
don't even get me on some warstories.
Um, so what's the?
What is it with drinking?
The rule of three multiplytimes three.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Oh yeah, that was mine too.
Like oh, you say, you only hadthree drinks, that means nine.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
And if they're, and if they're, like me, from
Louisiana, you multiply timessix, so that's just how it goes.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
My regulars.
I always knew.
But some of the regulars got toknow me and they would be
actually like, oh, I'll be, Iknow I can be honest with you.
So they tell me like 15 and I'mlike I appreciate the honesty
we're all scared of judgmentright judgment by who?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
somebody else?
That's abnormal.
Don't be scared about that.
If they're judging you becausethey're abnormal, it's because
they're more insecure than youare.
Deal with it, all right.
I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
it's the same thing with drugs.
When people would say I mean,you know, oh, five bags of
heroin, I'm like, yeah, ok,whatever, that means what?
At least a gram a day, twograms a day.
And then people would be like,how do you know?
I'm like lucky guess.
And then the other part, too,that I always found interesting
is that oh, it's my favorite oneis I had a guy leave jail and
(24:53):
tell me that he only usedopioids two to three times a
week.
I'm like I've never met someonewho does that ever.
So please do not lie to me.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Well, yeah, there's no sense in it.
You know, I had one guy it wasactually a young lady, not that
one, she was in her mid thirtiesand she, you could tell she was
beautiful.
At one point, and I asked herhow long she'd been on crystal
meth, she goes, how'd you know?
I said, because you're wearinga shirt, that says my birthstone
is crystal meth.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You can't make this shit up.
You cannot make this shit makeit up.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
You can't make it up.
Yeah, I thought the shirt washilarious, but it it was.
It was a great.
It was a great uh.
It was a great opportunity tobuild a relationship with it.
But no, I was uh.
But no, I was going down theroad the other day.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I want to hear this police officer story.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you remember my back storyis that back in 22, I sold
everything.
I sold very big.
I mean I did really well.
That was the most unhappy I'dever been in my life.
I mean, you think everybodythat's got the American dream
the money, the cars, everything,blah, blah, blah.
Got the American dream, themoney, the cars, everything,
blah, blah, blah.
No, I was miserable man.
(26:04):
I couldn't get out of bed onthe weekends but anyway.
So, um, I had some leftoversfrom that life because I walked
away from most of it all.
One of them was this reallybeautiful McLaren that um was in
the shop the majority of thetime.
Right, sorry, british cars havenot been good to me, but, um,
but it was in the shop most ofthe time McLarens too.
And well you know, the Britishcars just all seem to have
messed up grills.
(26:25):
Will you get it?
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Okay, look at my teeth, but anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
All right, all right, so I digress.
But no, with the McLaren I wasin the shop a lot.
So when I would drive it, Iwould enjoy it.
So when I would drive it, Iwould enjoy it.
And I was out on the highwayand I was talking to one of the
participants actually from theshow who was having a rough time
after her father passed.
And I look in my mirror and redand blues and I am looked down,
I'm doing 91 like oopsie.
You don't even realize it.
(26:51):
In this vehicle Right now Iwill say oh God, please don't
judge me.
This is my license plate framesaid may I Retired porn star.
My license plate frame said mayI Retired porn star?
And it was just there for ajoke, right, it was just there
for a joke.
My license plate frame saysretired porn star.
And you know business that, hey, it's not far off.
But I remember it took me awhile to get pulled over because
(27:13):
it was a tollway.
And once we got off he came up.
He was very nice, I had myhands on the steering wheel
because I can look, I can looksketchy as all get out Right.
And he comes up and we'retalking for a little bit and
said I don't have my license, Ididn't bring my wallet.
I'm sorry, but I have my.
I have my number memorized andhere's my.
I haven't had my passport, mybackpack, but anyway.
(27:34):
So he's very, very nice guy andso, in it all, he stops before
he goes back.
He goes by the way, what do youdo for a living?
I'm like not what my licenseplate says, I swear to God.
He starts laughing a little bit.
He goes.
No, what do you do?
And I told him about the show.
He goes.
Wow, I said, you know, I'm notsaying this to get off.
(27:56):
A guys are out there becauseyou have to treat everybody like
a friendly.
We're at war, you know who theenemy is mostly not all the time
and you know somebody's a badguy.
Now you're always on guard.
I said but you guys have to beon guard and treat everybody
like a friendly until youidentify they're not and then
act quickly and save your buttand everybody else is around you
(28:16):
.
And he goes.
He starts to tear up a bitRight and um, I can see it.
He goes back to his car.
He comes back and he hands me awarning.
He goes.
Hey, I would have given you thewarning.
In a way, I just appreciate youbeing honest about everything.
Um, he goes um, I, I, I.
I suffer from it too.
I said let's talk, brother, hegoes um.
(28:38):
I said but look, here's, here'smy number.
And I said you give me a call.
He called me two days later andwe talked about it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And he talked about.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Usually it's a 24 hour window right, I know I was
so surprised it was at 48,.
Right, I was very surprised itwas at 48, which tells me it
took some courage buildup or hewas on shift or you know he lost
my number.
But anyway, he told me about anincident where he was pulling
over, looked like a friendly andthen the shotgun went off from
(29:06):
the back seat, through the door,hit him, and he relives that
every time he walks up to a damnvehicle.
Now he goes.
He won my respect when I sawboth your hands on your steering
wheel and you were so open tome.
I said and plus, I didn't havea back seat.
So there you go.
And he chuckled and I said man,look, I've got some good people
I want to hook you up with.
I don't think I don't know ifyou need the power and the level
(29:27):
of what I do and where I guidethese people.
I said but you've got thebiggest respect for me.
I mean, you guys are heroes andevery single day I think
underappreciated and what youhave to put up with.
But can I make a recommendationto you?
He goes, yeah sure.
I said are you married?
He goes 14 years.
(29:52):
And I said would you also lookat therapy with your wife.
He goes yeah, yeah, sure, why Isaid you wouldn't believe how
much it affects them to watch usgo through it and give her the
love she deserves to, and he didso.
My story is I pulled him overthat night right Because the
serendipity and how it allworked out I got a warning.
It was a great opportunity toheal.
So, yeah, that's my story.
(30:13):
I pulled over a police officer,a hero.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Very great story and absolutely something that is.
I know that healing heroestalks about it too, but never
neglect the family members andwhat they go through and the
resentment sometimes and thenumber of times they bite their
tongue not to comment on shit.
Um, because they don't want tomake you feel bad right they
(30:38):
don't want to make you feel bad,right.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
They don't want to make you feel worse than you
already feel, because you don'twant to make them feel like
they're doing a bad job becausethey've already been through so
much.
But at the same time, theconversations aren't happening
the other direction because theydon't want you to know how
screwed up they are.
Big breakdown there.
Big breakdown.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
They are big breakdown there, big breakdown.
I think that what what I?
I wish there was a betterservice about treating the
family members as much astreating the actual officers
firefighters, emts, paramedicsyou know I'm not trying to
neglect anyone military, erstaff, correction staff because
the family members go throughtheir own stuff.
(31:23):
You know, like what's that oldWorld War II saying, the
thousand mile stare?
Oh yeah, and I've certainlyagain not comparing myself to
any one of those people, butwhen you work in the emergency
room and you hear some fucked upshit, there's days where I
walked into my, my home, and itwas like my then wife said to me
(31:44):
bad day, huh, I'm like you haveno clue, but she knew to leave
me alone because she didn't, andthen of course she was
suffering, and then fordifferent reasons and I'm not
putting my putting her stuff outthere, that's her own shit and
I respect her, so I don't wantto do that, but ultimately I
also made her go through stuffbecause of that.
Um yeah, no doubt, no doubt,you can't forget about the
(32:07):
family.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Well, and I'll I'll share my personal story.
I mean, 30 years with anindividual.
It's like why not just get itto the end, where it is far
Right.
But, um, you know, when I wentthrough my healing and I have
the same good things to sayabout my ex um is that, um, you
know she had to put up with somuch over that time.
And, look, I wasn't abusive, Iwasn't violent, but I was
(32:31):
isolated.
And that isolation, ladies andgentlemen out there listening,
brothers and sisters, it'spainful when they're isolated
from you, but they don't feelcomfortable talking to you about
it.
But they see it.
Look, I was getting up everytwo hours with night terrors and
I would, literally, I wouldhave sleep paralysis.
(32:51):
I would wake up and I wouldfeel hands grabbing my ankles to
yank me out of the bed intohell.
Who the hell am I going to tellthat to?
Right, I was a practicingphysician with a medical license
that gets out.
Oh, suddenly I can't pay thebills anymore.
I know some of you feel thesame way, but if you don't
address it, you're hurting thosethat you're out there doing it
(33:12):
for.
You're out there working andbusting your asses out there,
putting your ass on the line,the people you love, but they're
also the ones that aresuffering because what comes
home to them is a lesser versionthan what they deserve.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Right, and I'm going to go even further than what you
said and I'm going to dig alittle deeper.
The silence that you put yourpartner through when you're
going through your own stuff inthe silence.
You may not consider thatverbal abuse or trauma in that
way, but it is absolutely verbalabuse and trauma.
(33:46):
And if you don't believe me, gowithout talking to your partner
for eight hours straight,purposefully, and know how much
it affects them and see how longyou can really resist not
talking.
And sometimes that silence canbe also as bad.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
It can be.
I mean, there's effectivesilence, right to bring the
truth out in some cases, thepregnant pause and everything,
but the prolonged silence.
I'm going to say this and it'sgoing to sound really strong,
but I'm going to step on a ledgeand say this it's as bad as
being unfaithful.
And let me say why.
Let me put it together.
I agree, by the way.
What is infidel?
What is in unfaithfulness?
(34:23):
Unfaithful means you have lostfaith in somebody and you, when
you've been unfaithful, you'velost faith in them.
That's what it means unfaithful.
And that's exactly what you'redoing with the silence.
You're being unfaithful to themthat they can handle it and
that they're your partner andthey can help you get through it
.
And it may be appropriateunfaithfulness because they
(34:46):
don't have the tools to dealwith either, right, but I'm just
saying, put it on that If youwant to level set, how great,
how office is, people put a lotof times infidelity is the worst
thing you possibly do.
Unfaithfulness and that silence.
I put it pretty much on a closelevel, my opinion well, I, you
know.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
You know unfaithfulness is not the number
one cause of divorce.
Most people think it is, butit's not.
Number one is financialstressors, and then lack of
communication is number three,or something like that.
Um, so, you know, when youthink about the people, and I
think fourth or fifth is beingunfaithful, physically or
(35:26):
psychologically, whatever peoplelike to call it, I don't care.
But the point is, is that tryagain, if you ever try?
If someone doesn't talk to youfor a day, eight hours a week,
and they just look pissed orthey act pissed or they say
things that are pissy when theydo do talk, that's more torture
to me than going on a call wheresomeone wants to jump to me.
(35:50):
That's more like that's moretorture, because the jump, I
hate to say it.
And if I'm again too colloquialhere, you go after me.
Guys, I go to the call.
It never lasts more than anhour.
We succeed or we don't, and I'mnot trying to say that that's
good, I'm just saying we succeedor we don't.
And then you go to the nextcall Eight hours of.
(36:13):
I don't know what I did wrongor what's wrong with him.
Is he mad at me?
All those questions that yougot to ponder for your own.
60,000, 80,000 thoughts in aday and sitting with that,
that's more tortured than anhour.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Call Just for the record, that's, that's powerful,
it really is and very well said, communication.
You know it's.
It's essential in relationshipand you know they.
This was not really describedwhen I went through school
nearly three decades ago, butthe avoidant, dismissive
relationship type, right wherethey're the carpet sweepers and
(36:49):
then they just dismiss it, it'slike folks imagine having the
dirty house.
It's the person that justthrows everything in the closet
and that closet door is justbulging at times.
Right.
By the way, I'm going to add acontraindication to psychedelic
medicine.
Use that one, because you'regoing to let everything out at
one time and if they still don'thave the tools to process it,
(37:12):
whoa, you're going to have adangerous situation.
But no avoidant dismissives arevery common and basically they
just don I'm a bulldozer.
I am a bulldozer, I like to gointo the problem, fix the
problem, move on.
At least that's who I am now.
I wasn't.
I wasn't avoiding to a certainextent on my own problems, but I
(37:33):
was a bulldozer and everybodyelse's just.
Uh, I guess, pay attention toyourself and how you deal with
it.
If you find that you're one ofthe avoidant people and you're
not talking, not letting it out.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
It's not going going away.
It's still in the closet rightand I think that what you just
counter indicated, I will um addto it.
I do, I movement reprocess.
Uh, why am I?
Okay, I just came back fromvacation.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Truthfully, emdr, get the car you bring, bring, bring
I, I movement, desensitizationand reprocessing.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Thank, thank you very much Boom.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
yes.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And when people ask me when do I do it With people,
I said not until I know them forsix months.
And people are like that'scrazy and I'm like no, because
you're going to be opening up acan of worms that's going to
open other channels.
That might be things that youhaven't talked about to anyone
in years, if ever haven't talkedabout to anyone in years, if
ever.
And if you don't have theinherent trust of the person in
(38:29):
front of you, I think that thatplays a huge factor of how
you're going to be in EMDR againin the future.
So my two rules are six monthsor you're seeing a therapist I
know and trust, and then, yeah,you can come in, because maybe
they don't do EMDR and I do it.
So you can come in, I'll doyour EMDR, knowing that you can
go process that with them andthey trust in me.
(38:50):
So you trust me because of that.
But ultimately, when we go intoa lot of trauma work, you have
no clue what's going to come out, because what you've opened up
will open up shit underneaththere that you haven't seen in
years the wall over the wallover the wall that we talked
about earlier.
So you got to make sure you dothat properly.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
You know, steve, I'll say this is.
This has been one of the bestWestern sizzling buffets we
could ever have.
On topics right, becausethere's been some great ones out
there, or golden corral, let'sgo.
That's golden corral level ofbuffet.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
They're coming back.
Baby, they're coming back.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
But corral level of buffet coming back.
Baby, they're coming back, butum, you know it's um.
But.
All great topics and and greattidbits on this, but I I will
tell you about emdr.
I am the biggest fan of whatI've seen it do.
In fact, we did not incorporateemdr into the first set of
series of people coming throughthis because of that fact that,
a well, it's just still learningabout its efficacy and I mean I
(39:49):
see great things from it.
And and for anybody out therethat's listening to this that
has sat there and says I've donetalk therapy, I've done group
therapy, I've done ssris, snri,blah blah, right, give emdr a
chance with somebody that knowswhat they're doing.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Right now I'm like, look, if I, if I didn't believe
in EMDR, I wouldn't do it myself.
But I definitely do EMDR and toomany people and I'm going to
save names, obviously becauseclinical information but there's
some people who come to me andsay I did EMDR, that was great,
but then they didn't give me anytools in the back or in the
(40:27):
front in order to deal withother traumas that might've come
up.
And now I feel as fucked up asI was previous to my EMDR.
And this is years and years ago.
Someone mentioned that to meand since then that's been my
process, my practice of doingEMDR only with people who are in
therapy, with someone theytrust or me, for at least six
months so that they can trust mewhen the harder shit comes up.
(40:48):
And I think that that's why theEMDR process of eight to 12
weeks sounds really, really goodfor most people, but for me,
after eight weeks and you'refeeling better, you still need
to process stuff because you'vegot to develop the skills and if
you trauma right, you got togive skills as well as process
it.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Right Before you start, you've got to have the
tools right, and if you didn'thave the tools when the traumas
happened, if you didn't havethem when you were younger,
because you've been an avoidant,dismissive type person your
whole life, that just pushes itaway.
You need to get the tools.
You know another topic and wecan hold this for another show
if you want to, but why don't weteach emotional intelligence in
schools?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
You can hold this for another show if you want to,
but why don't we teach emotionalintelligence in schools?
You know, you mentioned that inthe last one and we didn't even
talk about it today.
What I want to do is, when I godown to cancun, we can start
about emotional intelligence,because let's do it to do that
and, you know, get ready foryour release, as we.
You know, I'm looking at thetime.
I really want to keep it toabout this amount of time.
So, you know, let's talk aboutsomething to me that's again
getting very clear, that it'sgetting dear to my heart is I
(41:54):
want to hear about HealingHeroes.
I know that you're talkingabout a second trailer coming
out for Memorial Day.
And I can't wait to hear moreabout it, like how is it going
to be from?
I thought you were saying sixto nine weeks of a series to a
movie.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
That's a lot of cutting.
That's a lot of cutting, butit's got a lot of impact.
Just imagine it this way.
I chose this strategicallybecause, yes, it's a lot of
cutting, it's a lot ofcompacting and, yeah, there's
going to be a lot of things thatcan come out and supplemental,
or people can go to the YouTubeand watch or to our website and
watch right To get thebackground and some of the
better stories definitely thegag reels.
You got to see the gag reelsbut it's um, but it's beautiful
(42:33):
stories that you know.
Attention span these days hasgotten so short because of
social media and the way it'sstructured, that we want to be
very impactful.
But then once the streamerpicks up the movie, they get to
pick up the series and ourspinoff, squared Away Nation,
the TV show, which is a secondshow that's coming out Really
cool show on that and it'sactually showing the solidarity
(42:53):
of veterans and first respondersand how they can solve
community problems.
But anyway, so you know when itcomes out.
So let me tell you this Firstof all, we launched our first
trailer on Veterans Day of lastyear and I was honestly looking
for maybe a million views in acouple of months.
We have something to approachthe streamers with.
We had 4 million views in threeand a half days.
(43:15):
It was that powerful, wow.
And ain't seen nothing yet.
Baby right, when this comes outon Memorial Day, I think it's
going to be the biggest splash.
It's going to be great cuts wedecided to take.
I decided to take a direction Iwasn't really willing to at
first, and that's to tell my ownstory, which you know we tend
(43:35):
to hold those things dear toheart.
But one of the directors on theshows is just like Charlie,
it's your story that startedthis.
It's got to be the story thatstarts telling the story.
And boy, it's a lot ofone-sided counseling, maybe
right into the camera, right?
Yeah, it's scary to do that,but I kept thinking to myself
(43:57):
this is going to help otherpeople this vulnerability people
think vulnerability is aweakness.
It's not.
It's a strength, and so I hopeyou see that in this and
understand that PTSD is not adiagnosis of special forces, of
combat, of war, of even firstresponders and those that are on
the front line that called mecrazy for what I did when I left
(44:24):
and walked away from everything.
What are you doing.
You've killed your brain.
You just ruined yourself.
Right, I was already ruined,guys.
I just made it better and Icame out the best version of
myself.
But I tell them what systembreaks down in the body
enzymatically or from a viralinfection, or something breaks
in the body to cause depression,insomnia, anxiety, right, it is
(44:46):
stress, it is trauma, it islife.
It's the challenging things inlife that we just didn't learn
the lesson from.
So why are we treating it theway that we are just putting a
pill on it to mask the symptoms,to control the symptoms, and
not getting back to the reasonwhy it happened to us?
Because chances are the worstit was, the better the learnings
you can come from it.
(45:07):
Because I challenge anybody outthere imagine the biggest
accomplishments you've ever hadin life and tell me which one
was it hard or difficult to getthrough.
So now look back on this andsay then let me carry something
home from this, and the onlything that does that is working
with guys like Steve that areout there to help guide you
through it, to untie thenegative emotion to the past,
(45:28):
learn a lesson from it and jumpinto your body and move forward.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
I can't say anything other than there's nothing more
fascinating to me than any TVshow, movie, reality, whatever
you want to call it of a persontalking about their own problems
and like a monologue, as somepeople have mentioned it.
But to me that's the mostpowerful thing.
(45:53):
And when you put yourself outthere, there's always that risk.
And I will tell you, Charlie,the little that I know.
I can't wait to hear it.
But, more importantly, puttingyourself out there takes a lot
of guts, takes a lot of courage,but you'll be shocked how many
people will be supportive of you, and I will be one of them.
Whether we get along or not inCancun, I'll still support you
(46:17):
and I really I give a highlikelihood of good time.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Right, we're going to have a great time.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
I mean, I'm looking forward to it.
I mentioned it already twice ona podcast ask how many people I
do that.
But on this note, charlie, Igotta wrap it up.
I will see you in cancunsometime at in the beginning of
the fall, and we're gonna getready for that release on
veterans day.
But first and foremost, in acouple of days Day, we'll be
(46:44):
releasing the second trailer.
I will attach it as soon asit's out, and I will put the
trailer of the first trailerfrom a couple of months ago on
there too.
Charlie, thank you so much forcoming on again.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Hey, if you ever need me, I'm here for you too.
Steve, Just let me know.
I'm glad to do anything withyou.
You're fun to work with.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Thank you, charlie, you do great work, and you do
deserve a cape.
Well, thank you, charlie, Iwill wear it and I'll see you
guys on episode 206.
Thank you very much.
Well, that completes episode205.
Again, charlie Powell, thankyou so much for coming.
Come back for episode 206,where we're going to talk to
Cindy Doyle, and I hope you joinus.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(47:47):
No-transcript.
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