August 13, 2025 • 28 mins
What happens when a police officer and a counselor not only share their professional expertise but also their marriage journey? In this candid, powerful conversation, Ashley and Dustin Wright bring a unique dual perspective to the challenges facing first responder marriages.
Marriage requires resilience for everyone, but for those in law enforcement, the stakes are particularly high. "Resiliency in law enforcement is super important," explains Dustin, "because we're going to have troubles, struggles, and we need to bounce back pretty quickly." With divorce rates among first responders reaching a staggering 60-75%, the Wrights share practical strategies that have helped them navigate both professional pressures and relationship challenges.
The conversation delves into several crucial aspects of relationship health: the importance of preparing emotionally before crises hit, distinguishing between having a safe partner and using them as an emotional dumping ground, and extending grace to partners who witness society's darkest moments. Ashley offers particularly valuable insights for first responder spouses: "We do not realize the amount of images, sounds, smells, things that they're taking in on a regular basis," she explains, highlighting why intentional communication and decompression time are essential.
Perhaps most compelling is their discussion about supporting each other's growth journeys. When one partner embraces therapy or spiritual development, the other can misinterpret this as abandonment rather than opportunity. "How do we partner in that," Ashley asks, "rather than feeling insecure or putting the other person down?" Their answers provide a roadmap for couples facing similar challenges.
Ready to strengthen your relationship while navigating the unique demands of first responder life? Listen now for insights that could transform your connection and build resilience that lasts through even the most challenging circumstances.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where
strength meets strategy andcourage to help you move forward
.
Each week, your host, steveBisson, a therapist with over
two decades of experience in thefirst responder community,
brings you powerfulconversations about resilience,
growth and healing throughtrauma and grief.
Through authentic interviews,expert discussions and
(00:21):
real-world experiences, we divedeep into the heart of human
resilience.
We explore crucial topics liketrauma recovery, grief
processing, stress managementand emotional well-being.
This is Resilience Developmentin Action with Steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi and welcome to episode 217.
This is the conclusion ofepisode 216 with Ashley and
Dustin Wright.
You heard the bio in the lastone Quick Lido.
He's a police officer, she's acounselor.
Both have strong ties to churchand their faith in Christ.
And let's continue theinterview.
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Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, resiliency and I'll speak from law enforcement
is super important because we'regoing to have troubles, we're
going to have struggles and weneed to bounce back pretty
quickly in what we do.
If me and Ashley are having aserious, like terrible,
disagreement and I take thatinto work well, that now affects
my decision making on theselife and death calls and if I
don't have the resiliency to beable to overcome that, that can
(02:52):
be life-changing and I thinkthat's important.
When we talk about whatresiliency is, it's that ability
to handle that and bounce back,and so that's what I would talk
.
Same with our marriage.
Right, we're going to havedifficulties, we're going to
have tough times.
What does it look like when wehave that?
How quickly do we bounce backand everything?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, and sometimes it's easy to bounce back.
Sometimes it's, you know, asmall hurt, but I think the
reality is we see it in therapyall the time.
You know things can build andso that goes back to you know
you need to get in the habit inyour marriage of talking about
things and being vulnerable andyou know prioritizing, you know
(03:32):
kind of some foundational thingsto your relationship and being
intentional about that, so thatyou can show up and when the
harder things hit or if there'ssomething that you know you
can't resolve right away, youjust feel a little bit more
resilient and prepared.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, I want to add and we talked about it from the
beginning is the preparationpart.
You cannot expect to havesomething bad happen and not do
any preparation beforehand andbe okay.
It's the same thing with, like,law enforcement training.
I can't expect to go out thereand hit a, you know, shoot a
hundred percent if I'm not evendoing that in training.
(04:09):
So what?
What are we?
What are we doing now, beforethat happens?
You know, if you have nothingprepared, you should be meeting
with a therapist, meeting with agroup.
Hey guys, I want to put somethings in place in case this
does happen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, I think the other part, that you didn't say
those exact word, but I thinkthat sometimes what I find when
my law enforcement couples yousaid something to the effect of
and this is me paraphrasinggrowing is together.
And what I mean, what I thinkis so important, is I see too
many people like, oh, my wife ormy husband or my partner or
(04:44):
whatever politically correct,where are we going to use this
week?
I'm not much of a politicallycorrect guy, but oh, they're
doing this.
I'm like that's their growth,get into the growth with them.
They're not running away fromyou, they're just growing.
And I think that sometimes I seethat, particularly in first
responders I'm not trying toshit on anyone, but that's true.
They see that as a threat.
(05:06):
It's not a threat, it's a goodthing.
But too many people see it as athreat and I don't know if
that's your you've seen that,but I've certainly.
You know someone turns to XYZtherapy or a God or whatever,
and then they're like well,they're leaving me behind.
No, no one's leaving you behind, you're choosing that.
But I don't know if you've seenthat, but that's just wanted to
throw that out too.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, definitely seen some of that, and something
Dustin and I were just talkingabout the other day is you know,
what does it look like to youknow, speak highly about your
partner.
What does it look like Like whenthey're not in the room?
You know how are you servingthem in that way.
You know how are you servingthem in that way.
You know how are you talkingabout them, how are you praying
(05:53):
for them, how are you kind ofbeing their biggest cheerleader
in a way.
And you know that can be reallyhard sometimes in your marriage
, but it really tears apart theresiliency, the strength of your
marriage when you're notinvesting in studying and and
cheering each other on in thatway.
So if one partner is growing alittle bit more than the other,
that should, like you said, thatshouldn't be a bad thing.
It's a it's a great thing.
(06:13):
And everybody grows atdifferent levels and at
different times and in differentways.
But how do we partner in thatrather than feeling insecure or
putting the other person down?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I think that's tough in the law enforcement
world because we go to thesecalls sometimes and you know you
go to three domestics in anight and you know one party's
cheated on the other in each oneand you're like, oh my gosh,
it's, you know if it's happeninghere it's happening at home,
and you know we tend to like godown these rabbit holes
sometimes too, and I've been inthe.
(06:45):
you know we tend to like go downthese rabbit holes sometimes
too, and I've been in the.
You know the rooms where you'relike, sit there and you're like
, are you really talking aboutyour spouse that way?
You know like, right, you know.
So.
It's just what can we be doingbetter to, like we talked about
earlier, serve our spouse to getcloser, you know, to partner
with them, while they do want togrow right, like hey, I want to
(07:05):
come along on your journey.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, that's something.
We've been talking a lot thisweek about these topics, and
something that also came up wasjust grace.
You know, dustin brought up agreat example just now.
Responders are coming home andwhile they're used to the job,
they know what they're doing andthey're you know, this is their
line of work, so it's notrocking the boat per se every
night for them when they're onthese calls or you know days or
(07:27):
whatnot, but the reality isthey're taking in a lot and, as
a spouse, something that I'malways encouraging spouses is
extend grace, because there area lot of people in this world
that could not do what these menand women are doing.
Do what these men and women aredoing and we do not realize the
amount of images, sounds, smells, things that they're taking in
(07:56):
on a regular basis all the time,and so, while they are so
gifted at it and it's a callingand they're doing what they need
to do, as a spouse it isimportant for us to extend grace
sometimes and realize thatthey're bringing home a lot, and
so that decompression time andall these other tools that we're
talking about is reallyimportant for them and it
doesn't mean it doesn't go theother way.
Obviously, spouses need it too.
(08:18):
Kids need grace, wives,husbands, need grace.
But it does kind of help uszoom out, if you will, and think
about the bigger picture ofwhat the responder is actually
doing on a day-to-day basis, andit's pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You know, that's the other part too that I think
people don't understand and theyneed to share with their spouse
that they're seeing the 5% thatthe 95% of the population
doesn't know about.
You know, that's how I describeit is.
At five you get the point rightand when you see that you start
looking at your own life andyou get a little paranoid, you
get a little whatever, andthat's not abnormal, it's
(08:54):
acknowledging it, but alsorecognizing it as paranoia,
recognizing as working on thecouple, working on yourself,
working on whatever.
Because, again, if I'm breakinga wall here, you can kick my
butt later on, dustin.
But I also see in lawenforcement who are not faithful
to their partners and thatsometimes happens too and that
also messes with your head.
(09:14):
So if I'm breaking a wall here,you can kick my butt.
But believe me, I think it'sfairly well known.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
You're a hundred percent accurate.
I think we looked up data theother day.
You're 100% accurate.
I think we looked up data theother day.
Law enforcement divorces arelike 60 to 70% 75%.
It was astronomical and wellabove the national average.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And firefighters are up there too.
Yeah, vulnerability, being ableto say something.
That's hard, you know.
I think that what people tendto do is they don't you know.
And again, you're the therapist.
So I'm going to turn to you,although I am one too, but I
think that sometimes I feel likeit's easier to say gee, ashley,
(09:54):
you did this wrong, versus youknow what?
I'm having a hard time, and Ithink that that's what I tell
people is that you just got tochange the language, because
your wife, your husband, partner, not pissing you off on purpose
, they're trying to besupportive.
They just don't know how.
And for me, like I had toexplain that to so many people,
(10:15):
because even in my own life, youreally want to annoy me ask me
20 questions about anything,then I'm out of there.
I'm out.
I don't want to hear it, Idon't want to listen to you.
I'm going to answer yes, no,yes, no and okay, you're done.
All right, and sometimes it'sreally being able to have those
conversations and they're nottrying to be annoying recognize
what you're doing and whatyou're going through, but I
(10:36):
don't know.
I look to both of you for thatquestion, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I think it's, you know, trying to remember during
that emotional time where theirheart's at Like.
Are they trying to better me orare they just trying to break
me down?
And I think most spouses aretrying to better me Now.
It's how I receive it right.
That radical candor, you know.
But yeah, I think that'simportant is where their heart's
at when they're saying it.
You know I'm probably I'm beingdisrespectful or maybe that's
(11:05):
not the right word, but bluntsometimes when it's not needed
and just because I struggledwith it at work and it came home
with me that day, or whatever.
So I'll let you chime in moreon that.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
It makes me laugh because this is a part of our
marriage that is ongoing andit's something we constantly
talk about and work on.
Again, we don't have it alltogether, but Dustin is more
blunt and I am more sensitive.
I mean, we could not be moreopposite, and you've probably
heard the saying beforeopposites attract and then they
attack.
(11:36):
And we are that kind of couplewhere we have learned like when
things get hard, it's easy forus to attack each other.
We can both get pretty vocal orwhatnot so we've had to learn
how to slow that down.
And I love what you said, steve, about just the language you
know and something we learned ina marriage class that we did
through our church.
Actually it was calledre-engage and they taught us how
(11:59):
to stay in your circle.
And so when you'recommunicating or you know
sharing things with your partner, you know what does it look
like?
Almost like you have aninvisible hula hoop around you.
How do you communicate in a waythat's not, you know, pointing
a finger, or you did this or youdid that, or you're the reason
this happened, or da, da, da, da.
But more of a mature, I wouldsay, response of, hey, I'm
(12:20):
feeling hurt, or I'm feelingdisconnected, or I'm feeling
lonely, I think I need time withyou, or I think I need some
space.
You know, I feel I need andlearning to paraphrase that and
practice that often, because inthe moment, like Dustin said,
emotions can be high and we'revery quick to hurt each other,
(12:44):
and why would we want to do that?
This is the most importantrelationship on earth that we
have and it's it's worth theinvestment and it's worth not
giving up, and I think part ofthis, too, is just recognizing
forgiveness that we are going tomess up and that it's really
healthy and helpful sometimes topause and say, hey, I'm sorry
that came out wrong, will youforgive me?
(13:06):
You know, something as simpleas that goes a really long way.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
There's three things that you said that made perfect
sense to me.
Look at the intention.
You know there's days where,like again, you know, I'm trying
to be very respectful ofspiritual life, but I'm more of
a.
I'm fucked up today and it'snot to mean anyone did that to
me.
That's just how I speak.
But some people are like whoa,and I'm like no, it's just how I
(13:37):
feel.
I didn't attack anyone, um, andyou know I've had those
conversation.
I'm more of a blunt guy, as youprobably figured out too.
So, and you're in the same boat, but you talk about your boat,
your boat, the one thing that II really like maybe it's the
bald head that does that, Idon't know, um, but, um, you can
go to youtube, for those whoare on are just just on the
podcast.
Go YouTube, you'll see what Imean.
But the one thing I also thisis always the hardest
conversation in couplescounseling Make sure that your
(13:59):
safe partner does not becomeyour dumping ground.
You know I think that that's theother part too is like oh,
she's safe, she's not goinganywhere.
Let me be blunt, and I'm notsaying you purposely do this.
I'm just saying, for example,or he's my safe place, let me
throw shit at him, and that's,that's not.
That's not healthy.
They might be the safe person,that doesn't mean they deserve
(14:21):
to be the dumping ground foreverything else.
And I think that when you talkabout effective strategies for
couples, particularly in thefirst responder world, that's
important to realize.
Save doesn't mean dumping.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, there's a difference between sharing your
feelings and then, just like yousaid, dumping on them Like I
can share.
Hey, ashley, this happened tome today.
Here's how I felt, where I getit out still, and then there's,
I come home with just the angerand I portray that on her.
There's a big difference thereand I think that's important
with them.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I think that that's why the strategy that I discuss
is if someone's delivered themessage the same way you said it
, how would you receive it?
And sometimes, if someonereacts strongly, I'm like why do
you think they responded thatway?
Well, you call them nameswithout knowing what the hell
went wrong or what have you.
And I mean, I don't have aparticular example here, but the
(15:14):
point is is saying safe is notdumping, and that's so important
to me.
When I talk about couplescounseling and I don't do a
whole lot of that anymore I findthat very difficult.
Usually people don't reach out.
I find it interesting I tellpeople like the people who are
faith-based are actually theones who have actually healthier
couples counseling than thosewho come when everything has hit
(15:36):
the fan and they're like I needhelp and be fixed.
I'm sorry, my wand's upstairsagain.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
I forgot to tell you, yeah, yeah, that is such a good
point and I think there's a lotof statistics around that faith
piece that you know.
Community, you know there arecertain things that are so
foundational to your success.
I'm always a proponent ofpremarital counseling.
I tell couples that arethinking about marriage all the
time, hey, your chances of, orthe risk of conflict reduces
(16:05):
drastically when you dopremarital work.
You know, because you'retalking, you're opening up,
you're kind of working throughthings, and so I think it's,
yeah, definitely important andit goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And I always encourage that for people who
are, you know, divorced, I saythat you know, did you go to
counseling before you know youwent and got married?
Maybe it's time to go tocounseling.
Just get all that stuff out, sothat's on the table.
And then, worst case scenario,in six months, if you need a
refresher, hey, they'reavailable.
They know who you are, theyknow what's presenting, and with
(16:39):
first responders in particular,because I think that the other
part too and again, Dustin, youcorrect me if I'm wrong I feel
that there's been so much changein the law enforcement field in
the last, specifically in thelast five years, but I would
argue like 10 to 15 years,especially body cams and stuff
like that, that really, thatchanges so fast.
(16:59):
Sometimes you don't even knowwhere your head's at.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Oh yeah, a hundred percent agree.
Just like you said, the lastfive years there's been
traumatic changes with how we dothings, how we're portrayed
Like I'd imagine there's a lotof officers that are having
depression or anxiety justbecause of social media and
watching these videos, like themost recent one, I look at it
and I'm like there's still a lotthat we don't know here.
(17:23):
But I can already tell you thisscene didn't just start with
three or four officers alreadyon scene and you know, know.
But we don't get to say thatside right and I take and I'll.
I know I shouldn't do it, butI'll glance at some of the
comments and it upsets me.
So yeah, policing in the lastfive years with social media,
body cam, some of the majorincidents that have happened
(17:44):
have really changed policing.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
But draft, yeah yeah, I would say from like a spousal
place too.
There there's a lot of sadnessaround that you know and I know
a lot of spouses can, or peoplein the field can acknowledge
this too you know, when Dustinfirst started out in law
enforcement, there was so muchenergy, excitement.
You know that there was so muchnewness and we were just so
(18:07):
naive to you know what was tocome.
You know, nobody sat us downand said, hey, this is what you
can expect, this is what he'sgoing to go through, this is
what you're going to go throughas a spouse.
And so that's what prompts usto do these podcasts and open
our practice and have theseconversations, because we know
firsthand how hard it is andwe've watched a lot of our
(18:29):
friends get a divorce or gothrough things and not recover.
And there's been severalincidents at our own PD and in
our community where it totallywrecked some families and that's
devastating and they just nottheir fault, it's just being in
this line of work and lifehappens and it's hard to recover
(18:52):
.
So that's what prompts us totalk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I think that the other example I use regularly on
this podcast and in general iseveryone I know but I've worked
in different departments, 95% ofthe guys I've worked with in
different departments they wantto go work, try to do the
community safe, do everythingright and then go home.
That's all they want.
To go work, try to do thecommunity safe, do everything
right and then go home.
That's all they want to do.
There's nothing else they wantto do.
There's a 5% that are assholesand the same thing for
(19:19):
therapists.
There's 95% of therapists thatyou just want to help do their
best and they want to go home.
Then there's 5% that areassholes.
I said the difference is I knowa lot of asshole therapists and
it didn't even make the bottompage of any website.
But as soon as a cop in Ohiojust picking on Ohio sorry Ohio
(19:42):
does something wrong, then thecops in North Carolina,
massachusetts and Washington areall scumbags.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And that's a pressure that no one could possibly
comprehend.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You know, I comprehend it somewhat from
working on a regular basis, butI don't know what it is, because
that's what I think happens.
And then if you don't have thatresiliency, you don't have that
vulnerability, you don't havethose conversations, everything
we talked about, then that'swhat destroys couples.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yes, absolutely yeah.
It's a lot against you when youare in the first responder
world, unfortunately, andespecially in law enforcement.
I would say it's a, it's alittle bit harder, or a lot bit
harder, so yeah yeah, I mean,I've seen it too many times.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
We you talked about what you just saw in social
media.
Something happened inmassachusetts, where I'm based
out of, and, and you know peoplelike, how is that?
That's terrible.
I'm like what's the backstory?
Everyone who said to me it'sterrible.
So what's the backstory?
Well, I don't know that.
Oh, so you're just taking whatyou're seeing and making the
police the bad guy.
How about you get the wholestory and then tell me what you
(20:48):
think?
And then most people don't comeback and ever talk to me again.
Either they're embarrassed orthey think I'm crazy or whatever
.
I don't really care.
But there's a backstory andnever, ever forget that.
Yes, you know there's aparticular guy that I don't want
to mention in Minnesota who didsomething absolutely terrible,
and every law enforcement personI know is absolutely behind
that.
It was terrible what he did forfive minutes the rest of them
(21:12):
like.
Sometimes you got to know thebackstory in order to comprehend
what occurred, and that's theother part.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true we're.
We're so quick to label and soquick to judge and we don't, at
the end of the day, we don'tknow the whole story most of the
time.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So and so you know I I know that we're coming on a
time now.
We've already almost done anhour already.
Great conversation, reallyappreciate both of you.
Is there a way for people tolike either reach out to you or
get to you or anything else?
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Yeah, so my practice is called Valor Counseling
Center.
We're in Holly Springs, northCarolina, and little town
outside of Raleigh, but we servemost of North Carolina and we
have a lot of partners justthroughout the country.
It's kind of the cool thingabout the responder world you
have brothers and sisters allover, and so it's a really great
(22:06):
community and opportunity.
But they can go to our websiteand it's just
wwwvalorcounselingcentercom.
All one word um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
So I uh, obviously I'm a police officer primarily
but I also own a business on theside called right training
consulting.
You can reach out to me there.
I primarily do like churchsafety, active shooter kind of
drills, training and stuff likethat.
But I do that on the side.
You can reach me there.
And then something we're notgoing to reveal too much, but we
do have a nonprofit we'restarting specifically for first
(22:39):
responders and things that we'veseen.
So quick little backstory A fewyears ago we had an officer in
our area that was shot andkilled in the line of duty.
One of my good friends wasinvolved with that situation.
He was at the scene.
He had to go find the bad guysthat had done it and then
finally, the day of the funeralyou know, they arrested the bad
(23:00):
guys.
I think a day or two before thefuneral, had to go through all
that.
And then I talked to him thatnight or the next night and I
was like, hey man, how are youdoing?
He's like, well, everyone elsehas kind of put this behind them
because they've already hadtime to process it and I haven't
.
And me and my wife separatelythought, well, what could we do
to take that person them andtheir spouse away for a couple
(23:24):
of days and work through that ina safe environment, with mental
health, with all this downtime,and provide it for them free of
charge.
So it's not a barrier toanybody.
So that's what we're workingtowards and in the next few
months hopefully we'll have thatup and running and be able to
share a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, I hope you keep me posted on that, because I
think that's so important, Oneof the things I don't I'm going
to.
I guess I'm going to say it now.
There's some people who, youknow, for some reason can't work
for a while or whatever, and Idon't charge.
I just treat them because Ithink it's much more important
to get treatment than say, well,where's my payment?
(23:57):
I'm not saying I'm poor by anystretch and I'm not saying I'm
rich, but I'm just saying thatsometimes you got to do what's
best, and having a firstresponder be in a position where
they're feeling alone, theycan't get treatment, is
absolutely terrible.
So I'm very appreciative ofwhat you're going to do.
So I put all this in the shownotes, both your websites.
You know we went for about anhour.
I think it's more than I'm morethan happy to say that we're
(24:20):
probably going to do twoepisodes out of this and um, at
one point I'd love to have youback on if you want to come back
, Um, especially when you know.
Good luck on the 10 and thetrip to Ecuador.
Thank you for doing that too.
Appreciate that.
And next, and maybe you cantalk about your nonprofit next
time and feel free to reach outto me whenever that happens, but
(24:41):
I wanted to thank you for yourtime and your openness, because
this was a great interview.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Hey, thanks, steve.
I appreciate it and you're veryeasy to talk to, so that was
nice.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
And thank you for what you do.
This is really important, so weappreciate you.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
We're glad that there's more people like you
that are sharing it from thefirst responder side, because up
until recently it's felt likewe just kept getting beat on and
beat on.
You mentioned the situation inMinnesota, milwaukee, and I
remember being down here andpeople calling me names and I'm
like I don't even.
I have nothing to do with thisand one day I actually broke
(25:19):
down.
It was obviously this was rightmiddle of COVID or beginning of
COVID really and I was at thegrocery store.
I was at our Harris Teeter, Iwas just getting a sub for lunch
, right, I'm in uniform, I'm nottalking to anybody and this
lady there's lines everywhere,you know there's six feet back
and she grabs me she's anemployee there, walks me to the
front and checks out and saysthank you, and I literally
started crying at the timebecause nobody had been nice.
(25:41):
You know, outside we're alreadybeing.
You know we're being calledNazis for the whole COVID thing
and not letting people doanything.
We're being called, you know,racist cops for this scene that
I had nothing to do with.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And it was.
That was terrible.
So just that one little act ofkindness.
So thank you, steve, for whatyou do.
To share that a little bit,thank you, and I'll never stop
until well, hopefully you know,for several years.
But thank you for what you doand thank you for, like I said,
being an officer is quite athankless job right now and I
truly appreciate you.
Being a therapist who workedwith first responders, finding
competence, culturally competent, first responder therapist is
(26:21):
extremely hard.
I'm working on a group here inMassachusetts, but that is one
of the hardest things to do.
And if just to plug something,the Second Alarm Project out of
Florida.
They do work a lot with theCarolinas too, too, so that's
another thing I would say yousaid is that um spelled out?
second, yeah, it's.
I said I think it's the numbertwo, second, okay, but yeah, I
(26:43):
don't get any.
By the way, in case anybodywonders, on this podcast I get
zero dollars and zero zero centsfrom that.
Uh, it's the second alarmproject.
It's a great little uh app andthey do if you want to do your
self-assessments which is what Ilove the most about that app
and so that way you can know ifyou may need some help.
Just like when I do my CITtrainings, I always do the
(27:06):
trauma one and I do the ACEs,the adverse child events, and I
say, oh, look at the questionsand then I pause purposefully
for five minutes and then I looklike, hey guys, how many of you
scored over four here?
And no one wants to reallyanswer.
I said so, you didn't answer.
That's highly likely, you'reall.
The average is seven for police.
So just for the record, justwanted to mention, and I think
(27:30):
that that's the stuff you got todo to get them thinking.
But I feel like I plugged toomany things.
I think I didn't want to takeany spotlight away.
So thank you again and, forthose who are listening right
now, looking forward to seeingyou for episode 218.
So thank you.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yeah, thanks, steve.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Thanks, Steve.
Well, that completes episode217.
Hope you join me for episode218 on the next episode.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(28:19):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where
strength meets strategy andcourage to help you move forward
.
Each week, your host, steveBisson, a therapist with over
two decades of experience in thefirst responder community,
brings you powerfulconversations about resilience,
growth and healing throughtrauma and grief.
Through authentic interviews,expert discussions and
(00:21):
real-world experiences, we divedeep into the heart of human
resilience.
We explore crucial topics liketrauma recovery, grief
processing, stress managementand emotional well-being.
This is Resilience Developmentin Action with Steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi and welcome to episode 217.
This is the conclusion ofepisode 216 with Ashley and
Dustin Wright.
You heard the bio in the lastone Quick Lido.
He's a police officer, she's acounselor.
Both have strong ties to churchand their faith in Christ.
And let's continue theinterview.
(01:12):
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Speaker 3 (02:30):
Yeah, resiliency and I'll speak from law enforcement
is super important because we'regoing to have troubles, we're
going to have struggles and weneed to bounce back pretty
quickly in what we do.
If me and Ashley are having aserious, like terrible,
disagreement and I take thatinto work well, that now affects
my decision making on theselife and death calls and if I
don't have the resiliency to beable to overcome that, that can
(02:52):
be life-changing and I thinkthat's important.
When we talk about whatresiliency is, it's that ability
to handle that and bounce back,and so that's what I would talk
.
Same with our marriage.
Right, we're going to havedifficulties, we're going to
have tough times.
What does it look like when wehave that?
How quickly do we bounce backand everything?
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, and sometimes it's easy to bounce back.
Sometimes it's, you know, asmall hurt, but I think the
reality is we see it in therapyall the time.
You know things can build andso that goes back to you know
you need to get in the habit inyour marriage of talking about
things and being vulnerable andyou know prioritizing, you know
(03:32):
kind of some foundational thingsto your relationship and being
intentional about that, so thatyou can show up and when the
harder things hit or if there'ssomething that you know you
can't resolve right away, youjust feel a little bit more
resilient and prepared.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, I want to add and we talked about it from the
beginning is the preparationpart.
You cannot expect to havesomething bad happen and not do
any preparation beforehand andbe okay.
It's the same thing with, like,law enforcement training.
I can't expect to go out thereand hit a, you know, shoot a
hundred percent if I'm not evendoing that in training.
(04:09):
So what?
What are we?
What are we doing now, beforethat happens?
You know, if you have nothingprepared, you should be meeting
with a therapist, meeting with agroup.
Hey guys, I want to put somethings in place in case this
does happen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Yeah, I think the other part, that you didn't say
those exact word, but I thinkthat sometimes what I find when
my law enforcement couples yousaid something to the effect of
and this is me paraphrasinggrowing is together.
And what I mean, what I thinkis so important, is I see too
many people like, oh, my wife ormy husband or my partner or
(04:44):
whatever politically correct,where are we going to use this
week?
I'm not much of a politicallycorrect guy, but oh, they're
doing this.
I'm like that's their growth,get into the growth with them.
They're not running away fromyou, they're just growing.
And I think that sometimes I seethat, particularly in first
responders I'm not trying toshit on anyone, but that's true.
They see that as a threat.
(05:06):
It's not a threat, it's a goodthing.
But too many people see it as athreat and I don't know if
that's your you've seen that,but I've certainly.
You know someone turns to XYZtherapy or a God or whatever,
and then they're like well,they're leaving me behind.
No, no one's leaving you behind, you're choosing that.
But I don't know if you've seenthat, but that's just wanted to
throw that out too.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, definitely seen some of that, and something
Dustin and I were just talkingabout the other day is you know,
what does it look like to youknow, speak highly about your
partner.
What does it look like Like whenthey're not in the room?
You know how are you servingthem in that way.
You know how are you servingthem in that way.
You know how are you talkingabout them, how are you praying
(05:53):
for them, how are you kind ofbeing their biggest cheerleader
in a way.
And you know that can be reallyhard sometimes in your marriage
, but it really tears apart theresiliency, the strength of your
marriage when you're notinvesting in studying and and
cheering each other on in thatway.
So if one partner is growing alittle bit more than the other,
that should, like you said, thatshouldn't be a bad thing.
It's a it's a great thing.
(06:13):
And everybody grows atdifferent levels and at
different times and in differentways.
But how do we partner in thatrather than feeling insecure or
putting the other person down?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I think that's tough in the law enforcement
world because we go to thesecalls sometimes and you know you
go to three domestics in anight and you know one party's
cheated on the other in each oneand you're like, oh my gosh,
it's, you know if it's happeninghere it's happening at home,
and you know we tend to like godown these rabbit holes
sometimes too, and I've been inthe.
(06:45):
you know we tend to like go downthese rabbit holes sometimes
too, and I've been in the.
You know the rooms where you'relike, sit there and you're like
, are you really talking aboutyour spouse that way?
You know like, right, you know.
So.
It's just what can we be doingbetter to, like we talked about
earlier, serve our spouse to getcloser, you know, to partner
with them, while they do want togrow right, like hey, I want to
(07:05):
come along on your journey.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, that's something.
We've been talking a lot thisweek about these topics, and
something that also came up wasjust grace.
You know, dustin brought up agreat example just now.
Responders are coming home andwhile they're used to the job,
they know what they're doing andthey're you know, this is their
line of work, so it's notrocking the boat per se every
night for them when they're onthese calls or you know days or
(07:27):
whatnot, but the reality isthey're taking in a lot and, as
a spouse, something that I'malways encouraging spouses is
extend grace, because there area lot of people in this world
that could not do what these menand women are doing.
Do what these men and women aredoing and we do not realize the
amount of images, sounds, smells, things that they're taking in
(07:56):
on a regular basis all the time,and so, while they are so
gifted at it and it's a callingand they're doing what they need
to do, as a spouse it isimportant for us to extend grace
sometimes and realize thatthey're bringing home a lot, and
so that decompression time andall these other tools that we're
talking about is reallyimportant for them and it
doesn't mean it doesn't go theother way.
Obviously, spouses need it too.
(08:18):
Kids need grace, wives,husbands, need grace.
But it does kind of help uszoom out, if you will, and think
about the bigger picture ofwhat the responder is actually
doing on a day-to-day basis, andit's pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You know, that's the other part too that I think
people don't understand and theyneed to share with their spouse
that they're seeing the 5% thatthe 95% of the population
doesn't know about.
You know, that's how I describeit is.
At five you get the point rightand when you see that you start
looking at your own life andyou get a little paranoid, you
get a little whatever, andthat's not abnormal, it's
(08:54):
acknowledging it, but alsorecognizing it as paranoia,
recognizing as working on thecouple, working on yourself,
working on whatever.
Because, again, if I'm breakinga wall here, you can kick my
butt later on, dustin.
But I also see in lawenforcement who are not faithful
to their partners and thatsometimes happens too and that
also messes with your head.
(09:14):
So if I'm breaking a wall here,you can kick my butt.
But believe me, I think it'sfairly well known.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
You're a hundred percent accurate.
I think we looked up data theother day.
You're 100% accurate.
I think we looked up data theother day.
Law enforcement divorces arelike 60 to 70% 75%.
It was astronomical and wellabove the national average.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And firefighters are up there too.
Yeah, vulnerability, being ableto say something.
That's hard, you know.
I think that what people tendto do is they don't you know.
And again, you're the therapist.
So I'm going to turn to you,although I am one too, but I
think that sometimes I feel likeit's easier to say gee, ashley,
(09:54):
you did this wrong, versus youknow what?
I'm having a hard time, and Ithink that that's what I tell
people is that you just got tochange the language, because
your wife, your husband, partner, not pissing you off on purpose
, they're trying to besupportive.
They just don't know how.
And for me, like I had toexplain that to so many people,
(10:15):
because even in my own life, youreally want to annoy me ask me
20 questions about anything,then I'm out of there.
I'm out.
I don't want to hear it, Idon't want to listen to you.
I'm going to answer yes, no,yes, no and okay, you're done.
All right, and sometimes it'sreally being able to have those
conversations and they're nottrying to be annoying recognize
what you're doing and whatyou're going through, but I
(10:36):
don't know.
I look to both of you for thatquestion, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I think it's, you know, trying to remember during
that emotional time where theirheart's at Like.
Are they trying to better me orare they just trying to break
me down?
And I think most spouses aretrying to better me Now.
It's how I receive it right.
That radical candor, you know.
But yeah, I think that'simportant is where their heart's
at when they're saying it.
You know I'm probably I'm beingdisrespectful or maybe that's
(11:05):
not the right word, but bluntsometimes when it's not needed
and just because I struggledwith it at work and it came home
with me that day, or whatever.
So I'll let you chime in moreon that.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
It makes me laugh because this is a part of our
marriage that is ongoing andit's something we constantly
talk about and work on.
Again, we don't have it alltogether, but Dustin is more
blunt and I am more sensitive.
I mean, we could not be moreopposite, and you've probably
heard the saying beforeopposites attract and then they
attack.
(11:36):
And we are that kind of couplewhere we have learned like when
things get hard, it's easy forus to attack each other.
We can both get pretty vocal orwhatnot so we've had to learn
how to slow that down.
And I love what you said, steve, about just the language you
know and something we learned ina marriage class that we did
through our church.
Actually it was calledre-engage and they taught us how
(11:59):
to stay in your circle.
And so when you'recommunicating or you know
sharing things with your partner, you know what does it look
like?
Almost like you have aninvisible hula hoop around you.
How do you communicate in a waythat's not, you know, pointing
a finger, or you did this or youdid that, or you're the reason
this happened, or da, da, da, da.
But more of a mature, I wouldsay, response of, hey, I'm
(12:20):
feeling hurt, or I'm feelingdisconnected, or I'm feeling
lonely, I think I need time withyou, or I think I need some
space.
You know, I feel I need andlearning to paraphrase that and
practice that often, because inthe moment, like Dustin said,
emotions can be high and we'revery quick to hurt each other,
(12:44):
and why would we want to do that?
This is the most importantrelationship on earth that we
have and it's it's worth theinvestment and it's worth not
giving up, and I think part ofthis, too, is just recognizing
forgiveness that we are going tomess up and that it's really
healthy and helpful sometimes topause and say, hey, I'm sorry
that came out wrong, will youforgive me?
(13:06):
You know, something as simpleas that goes a really long way.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
There's three things that you said that made perfect
sense to me.
Look at the intention.
You know there's days where,like again, you know, I'm trying
to be very respectful ofspiritual life, but I'm more of
a.
I'm fucked up today and it'snot to mean anyone did that to
me.
That's just how I speak.
But some people are like whoa,and I'm like no, it's just how I
(13:37):
feel.
I didn't attack anyone, um, andyou know I've had those
conversation.
I'm more of a blunt guy, as youprobably figured out too.
So, and you're in the same boat, but you talk about your boat,
your boat, the one thing that II really like maybe it's the
bald head that does that, Idon't know, um, but, um, you can
go to youtube, for those whoare on are just just on the
podcast.
Go YouTube, you'll see what Imean.
But the one thing I also thisis always the hardest
conversation in couplescounseling Make sure that your
(13:59):
safe partner does not becomeyour dumping ground.
You know I think that that's theother part too is like oh,
she's safe, she's not goinganywhere.
Let me be blunt, and I'm notsaying you purposely do this.
I'm just saying, for example,or he's my safe place, let me
throw shit at him, and that's,that's not.
That's not healthy.
They might be the safe person,that doesn't mean they deserve
(14:21):
to be the dumping ground foreverything else.
And I think that when you talkabout effective strategies for
couples, particularly in thefirst responder world, that's
important to realize.
Save doesn't mean dumping.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah, there's a difference between sharing your
feelings and then, just like yousaid, dumping on them Like I
can share.
Hey, ashley, this happened tome today.
Here's how I felt, where I getit out still, and then there's,
I come home with just the angerand I portray that on her.
There's a big difference thereand I think that's important
with them.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I think that that's why the strategy that I discuss
is if someone's delivered themessage the same way you said it
, how would you receive it?
And sometimes, if someonereacts strongly, I'm like why do
you think they responded thatway?
Well, you call them nameswithout knowing what the hell
went wrong or what have you.
And I mean, I don't have aparticular example here, but the
(15:14):
point is is saying safe is notdumping, and that's so important
to me.
When I talk about couplescounseling and I don't do a
whole lot of that anymore I findthat very difficult.
Usually people don't reach out.
I find it interesting I tellpeople like the people who are
faith-based are actually theones who have actually healthier
couples counseling than thosewho come when everything has hit
(15:36):
the fan and they're like I needhelp and be fixed.
I'm sorry, my wand's upstairsagain.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
I forgot to tell you, yeah, yeah, that is such a good
point and I think there's a lotof statistics around that faith
piece that you know.
Community, you know there arecertain things that are so
foundational to your success.
I'm always a proponent ofpremarital counseling.
I tell couples that arethinking about marriage all the
time, hey, your chances of, orthe risk of conflict reduces
(16:05):
drastically when you dopremarital work.
You know, because you'retalking, you're opening up,
you're kind of working throughthings, and so I think it's,
yeah, definitely important andit goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And I always encourage that for people who
are, you know, divorced, I saythat you know, did you go to
counseling before you know youwent and got married?
Maybe it's time to go tocounseling.
Just get all that stuff out, sothat's on the table.
And then, worst case scenario,in six months, if you need a
refresher, hey, they'reavailable.
They know who you are, theyknow what's presenting, and with
(16:39):
first responders in particular,because I think that the other
part too and again, Dustin, youcorrect me if I'm wrong I feel
that there's been so much changein the law enforcement field in
the last, specifically in thelast five years, but I would
argue like 10 to 15 years,especially body cams and stuff
like that, that really, thatchanges so fast.
(16:59):
Sometimes you don't even knowwhere your head's at.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Oh yeah, a hundred percent agree.
Just like you said, the lastfive years there's been
traumatic changes with how we dothings, how we're portrayed
Like I'd imagine there's a lotof officers that are having
depression or anxiety justbecause of social media and
watching these videos, like themost recent one, I look at it
and I'm like there's still a lotthat we don't know here.
(17:23):
But I can already tell you thisscene didn't just start with
three or four officers alreadyon scene and you know, know.
But we don't get to say thatside right and I take and I'll.
I know I shouldn't do it, butI'll glance at some of the
comments and it upsets me.
So yeah, policing in the lastfive years with social media,
body cam, some of the majorincidents that have happened
(17:44):
have really changed policing.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
But draft, yeah yeah, I would say from like a spousal
place too.
There there's a lot of sadnessaround that you know and I know
a lot of spouses can, or peoplein the field can acknowledge
this too you know, when Dustinfirst started out in law
enforcement, there was so muchenergy, excitement.
You know that there was so muchnewness and we were just so
(18:07):
naive to you know what was tocome.
You know, nobody sat us downand said, hey, this is what you
can expect, this is what he'sgoing to go through, this is
what you're going to go throughas a spouse.
And so that's what prompts usto do these podcasts and open
our practice and have theseconversations, because we know
firsthand how hard it is andwe've watched a lot of our
(18:29):
friends get a divorce or gothrough things and not recover.
And there's been severalincidents at our own PD and in
our community where it totallywrecked some families and that's
devastating and they just nottheir fault, it's just being in
this line of work and lifehappens and it's hard to recover
(18:52):
.
So that's what prompts us totalk about it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I think that the other example I use regularly on
this podcast and in general iseveryone I know but I've worked
in different departments, 95% ofthe guys I've worked with in
different departments they wantto go work, try to do the
community safe, do everythingright and then go home.
That's all they want.
To go work, try to do thecommunity safe, do everything
right and then go home.
That's all they want to do.
There's nothing else they wantto do.
There's a 5% that are assholesand the same thing for
(19:19):
therapists.
There's 95% of therapists thatyou just want to help do their
best and they want to go home.
Then there's 5% that areassholes.
I said the difference is I knowa lot of asshole therapists and
it didn't even make the bottompage of any website.
But as soon as a cop in Ohiojust picking on Ohio sorry Ohio
(19:42):
does something wrong, then thecops in North Carolina,
massachusetts and Washington areall scumbags.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And that's a pressure that no one could possibly
comprehend.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
You know, I comprehend it somewhat from
working on a regular basis, butI don't know what it is, because
that's what I think happens.
And then if you don't have thatresiliency, you don't have that
vulnerability, you don't havethose conversations, everything
we talked about, then that'swhat destroys couples.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yes, absolutely yeah.
It's a lot against you when youare in the first responder
world, unfortunately, andespecially in law enforcement.
I would say it's a, it's alittle bit harder, or a lot bit
harder, so yeah yeah, I mean,I've seen it too many times.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
We you talked about what you just saw in social
media.
Something happened inmassachusetts, where I'm based
out of, and, and you know peoplelike, how is that?
That's terrible.
I'm like what's the backstory?
Everyone who said to me it'sterrible.
So what's the backstory?
Well, I don't know that.
Oh, so you're just taking whatyou're seeing and making the
police the bad guy.
How about you get the wholestory and then tell me what you
(20:48):
think?
And then most people don't comeback and ever talk to me again.
Either they're embarrassed orthey think I'm crazy or whatever
.
I don't really care.
But there's a backstory andnever, ever forget that.
Yes, you know there's aparticular guy that I don't want
to mention in Minnesota who didsomething absolutely terrible,
and every law enforcement personI know is absolutely behind
that.
It was terrible what he did forfive minutes the rest of them
(21:12):
like.
Sometimes you got to know thebackstory in order to comprehend
what occurred, and that's theother part.
Speaker 4 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, it's so true we're.
We're so quick to label and soquick to judge and we don't, at
the end of the day, we don'tknow the whole story most of the
time.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So and so you know I I know that we're coming on a
time now.
We've already almost done anhour already.
Great conversation, reallyappreciate both of you.
Is there a way for people tolike either reach out to you or
get to you or anything else?
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Yeah, so my practice is called Valor Counseling
Center.
We're in Holly Springs, northCarolina, and little town
outside of Raleigh, but we servemost of North Carolina and we
have a lot of partners justthroughout the country.
It's kind of the cool thingabout the responder world you
have brothers and sisters allover, and so it's a really great
(22:06):
community and opportunity.
But they can go to our websiteand it's just
wwwvalorcounselingcentercom.
All one word um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
So I uh, obviously I'm a police officer primarily
but I also own a business on theside called right training
consulting.
You can reach out to me there.
I primarily do like churchsafety, active shooter kind of
drills, training and stuff likethat.
But I do that on the side.
You can reach me there.
And then something we're notgoing to reveal too much, but we
do have a nonprofit we'restarting specifically for first
(22:39):
responders and things that we'veseen.
So quick little backstory A fewyears ago we had an officer in
our area that was shot andkilled in the line of duty.
One of my good friends wasinvolved with that situation.
He was at the scene.
He had to go find the bad guysthat had done it and then
finally, the day of the funeralyou know, they arrested the bad
(23:00):
guys.
I think a day or two before thefuneral, had to go through all
that.
And then I talked to him thatnight or the next night and I
was like, hey man, how are youdoing?
He's like, well, everyone elsehas kind of put this behind them
because they've already hadtime to process it and I haven't
.
And me and my wife separatelythought, well, what could we do
to take that person them andtheir spouse away for a couple
(23:24):
of days and work through that ina safe environment, with mental
health, with all this downtime,and provide it for them free of
charge.
So it's not a barrier toanybody.
So that's what we're workingtowards and in the next few
months hopefully we'll have thatup and running and be able to
share a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, I hope you keep me posted on that, because I
think that's so important, Oneof the things I don't I'm going
to.
I guess I'm going to say it now.
There's some people who, youknow, for some reason can't work
for a while or whatever, and Idon't charge.
I just treat them because Ithink it's much more important
to get treatment than say, well,where's my payment?
(23:57):
I'm not saying I'm poor by anystretch and I'm not saying I'm
rich, but I'm just saying thatsometimes you got to do what's
best, and having a firstresponder be in a position where
they're feeling alone, theycan't get treatment, is
absolutely terrible.
So I'm very appreciative ofwhat you're going to do.
So I put all this in the shownotes, both your websites.
You know we went for about anhour.
I think it's more than I'm morethan happy to say that we're
(24:20):
probably going to do twoepisodes out of this and um, at
one point I'd love to have youback on if you want to come back
, Um, especially when you know.
Good luck on the 10 and thetrip to Ecuador.
Thank you for doing that too.
Appreciate that.
And next, and maybe you cantalk about your nonprofit next
time and feel free to reach outto me whenever that happens, but
(24:41):
I wanted to thank you for yourtime and your openness, because
this was a great interview.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Hey, thanks, steve.
I appreciate it and you're veryeasy to talk to, so that was
nice.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
And thank you for what you do.
This is really important, so weappreciate you.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
We're glad that there's more people like you
that are sharing it from thefirst responder side, because up
until recently it's felt likewe just kept getting beat on and
beat on.
You mentioned the situation inMinnesota, milwaukee, and I
remember being down here andpeople calling me names and I'm
like I don't even.
I have nothing to do with thisand one day I actually broke
(25:19):
down.
It was obviously this was rightmiddle of COVID or beginning of
COVID really and I was at thegrocery store.
I was at our Harris Teeter, Iwas just getting a sub for lunch
, right, I'm in uniform, I'm nottalking to anybody and this
lady there's lines everywhere,you know there's six feet back
and she grabs me she's anemployee there, walks me to the
front and checks out and saysthank you, and I literally
started crying at the timebecause nobody had been nice.
(25:41):
You know, outside we're alreadybeing.
You know we're being calledNazis for the whole COVID thing
and not letting people doanything.
We're being called, you know,racist cops for this scene that
I had nothing to do with.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
And it was.
That was terrible.
So just that one little act ofkindness.
So thank you, steve, for whatyou do.
To share that a little bit,thank you, and I'll never stop
until well, hopefully you know,for several years.
But thank you for what you doand thank you for, like I said,
being an officer is quite athankless job right now and I
truly appreciate you.
Being a therapist who workedwith first responders, finding
competence, culturally competent, first responder therapist is
(26:21):
extremely hard.
I'm working on a group here inMassachusetts, but that is one
of the hardest things to do.
And if just to plug something,the Second Alarm Project out of
Florida.
They do work a lot with theCarolinas too, too, so that's
another thing I would say yousaid is that um spelled out?
second, yeah, it's.
I said I think it's the numbertwo, second, okay, but yeah, I
(26:43):
don't get any.
By the way, in case anybodywonders, on this podcast I get
zero dollars and zero zero centsfrom that.
Uh, it's the second alarmproject.
It's a great little uh app andthey do if you want to do your
self-assessments which is what Ilove the most about that app
and so that way you can know ifyou may need some help.
Just like when I do my CITtrainings, I always do the
(27:06):
trauma one and I do the ACEs,the adverse child events, and I
say, oh, look at the questionsand then I pause purposefully
for five minutes and then I looklike, hey guys, how many of you
scored over four here?
And no one wants to reallyanswer.
I said so, you didn't answer.
That's highly likely, you'reall.
The average is seven for police.
So just for the record, justwanted to mention, and I think
(27:30):
that that's the stuff you got todo to get them thinking.
But I feel like I plugged toomany things.
I think I didn't want to takeany spotlight away.
So thank you again and, forthose who are listening right
now, looking forward to seeingyou for episode 218.
So thank you.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Yeah, thanks, steve.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Thanks, Steve.
Well, that completes episode217.
Hope you join me for episode218 on the next episode.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(28:19):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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