E.54 Shamanistic, Energy, Reiki Discussion With Pat Rice

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On Episode 54 of Finding Your Way Through Therapy and Episode 4 on You Tube, we talk to Pat Rice, a returning guest from the previous 3 seasons. Pat discusses shamanistic rituals and how they all relate to our lives and how it can embody our mind-body-spirit connection. Pat also discusses his friend Kerry who had three near-death experiences and how guides can show up in your life and the fact that we have to be open to these ideas in order to be able to look for that sign and information. Pat also discusses Reiki again and how it has relieved many of the stressors in his life.

Pat can be found on Instagram here

Kerry Keagan's book can be found at this link

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YouTube Channel For The Podcast

Episode Transcript

Steve Bisson (00:01):
Hi and welcome to finding your way through
therapy. I am your host, SteveBisson. I'm an author and mental
health counselor. Are youcurious about therapy? Do you
feel there is a lot of mysteryabout there? Do you wonder what
your therapist is doing and why?
The goal of this podcast is tomake therapy and psychology
accessible to all by using reallanguage and straight to the

(00:22):
point discussions. This podcastwants to remind you to take care
of your mental health, just likeyou would your physical health.
therapy should not beintimidating. It should be a
great way to better help. I willdemystify what happens in
counseling, discuss topicsrelated to mental health and
discussions you can have whatyour thoughts, I also want to

(00:43):
introduce psychology in everydaylife. As I feel most of our
lives are enmeshed inpsychology. I want to introduce
the subtle and not so subtleways psychology plays a factor
in our lives. It will be my ownmix of thoughts as well as
special guests. So join me onthis discovery of therapy and
psychology. Hi, and welcome toepisode 54 of finding your way

(01:05):
through therapy. If you haven'tlistened to Episode 53 yet,
please do so. Jay ball andCaitlin de he again, very great
guests. Third time in threeseasons that I've had both of
them Jay has been since seasonone. I do hope that you take
time to listen to ourconversation about mental health
first responders, the change andCO response model, maybe even

(01:26):
differences with CIT, but I dohope that you enjoy that
conversation. But episode 54will be with another returning
guest Mr. Pat rice. Pat rice hasthe top two most popular
episodes of my podcast. Andthere's good reasons for that.
Because Pat is a veryinteresting guy. Pat has been a
friend of mine for severalyears, and we're really two peas

(01:47):
in a pod sometimes. And wecertainly have enjoyed talking
about different things. Buthopefully this time we're going
to talk a little bit aboutshamanistic stuff, we're going
to talk about maybe some psychopharmaceutical use in regards to
that. As well as someone who ishealed, reconnected, he was
saying, oh, I want to bring thatup. And I'm like, alright, well,

(02:09):
we'll talk about it. And Iobviously told him that he's
again, a popular guy, and, andI'm sure we're gonna joke about
that. So here is episode 54.
Well, Hi, and welcome to episode54. Finding your way through
therapy. I am Steve de sel. Andwe're also recording for
YouTube, I've told you about myYouTube channel, if you don't

(02:31):
know yet, just go to it. AndI'll give a link. This will be
the fourth episode on YouTube.
And Pat was generous enough todo so. But Pat rice is someone
we've had here for episode32-43-54. Sounds like there's a
good symmetry going there. So Ithink we're going to keep up
that symmetry but wanted towelcome back Pat Rice, who has
the number one and number twoall time downloads on my

(02:52):
podcasts. And so there's nopressure Pat, but you just got
to keep on going forward.

Patrick Rice (03:02):
I'm sitting merely an instrument of greater beings
and, and so I know they feel nopressure. So I can't either so
but it's it's an honor to beback and the first one video I
put the ladder with a cleanshirt on.

Steve Bisson (03:19):
I've got my clean shirt on because I knew it. So
you know I kind of had you beaton that one.

Patrick Rice (03:24):
I'll give credit for one thing for the background
because I get sick of looking atthe pictures behind me in the
office is that that's a picturetaken, I believe by my friend
Annie Galvin, who retired who'sa wonderful clinician that
retired to me. And she and herdaughter, Allie, Renee, I've
still a lot of her great shotstoo, is that they're climbing

(03:44):
mountains, and maybe doing the4000 peak 4000 foot summit group
of mountains that they people doamazing pictures that they take
when you get to the top. So thisis one of those shots. I think
it's a dawn where they climb amountain in pre Dawn and then
they get to the top to enjoy thesunrise. So

Steve Bisson (04:05):
if anyone wants to see more pictures like that, I
know you always put them on yourInstagram accounts,

Patrick Rice (04:09):
right? Yeah, I use them for the background. So a
lot of the memes that I do andwhich come from when I when I
meditate in the morning,sometimes it just I just get a
thought or whatever. And asalways, Buddha always has had
the thought first. So there'sgenerally some Buddhist quote
that kind of fits that thought.
So you meditate every morning?

(04:32):
Yep. Wow. That's,

Steve Bisson (04:34):
uh, do you do it at night? Also, just Good
morning.

Patrick Rice (04:37):
No, I fall asleep at night. I'm old. I wake up at
430 in the morning, ready to go.
But at 830 at night, you know,I'm done. You know, I say the
people that would like to talkto me about something important
and that evening I said I'm notresponsible for what I'd say. So
it's just that if that happenedto me, actually in my practice

(04:58):
Someone I saw for many, manyyears at 630. At night after
their work. Her schedule changedthis one, I changed everything.
Because these work nights wereall working. It's the beginning.
And she said, Is there any wayyou can see me at like 730 in
the morning before I go to workbecause they get a new job and
you can you know, that is true.
Let's give it a shot. And fiveminutes into the session, she

(05:21):
stopped me and she said, Oh, myGod, you're awake. She said in
the evening, and she'll hearthis too, is bizarre, send this
to her. She'll hear this. And sono, she is. But she said to me,
she said, Oh, my goodness,you've always been empathic and
everything. But this more you'rewith me now you're with me.
You're right. And that's whenthey changed to a daytime

(05:43):
practice. Now, it's almostexclusively morning practice,
which is why you're up in themiddle of the night to do this
podcast with me.

Steve Bisson (05:53):
Yeah, for me, this is we're really, really early,
but in the envelope. I'm a nightowl. I was watching hockey last
night, so 1130 midnight, and I'mlike, Oh, I gotta go to bed. I
got to talk to Pat tomorrowmorning. So. So we are different
animals, just like anythingelse. But in some ways

(06:13):
complimentary. And I think thatthat's why actually

Patrick Rice (06:15):
and I was a night owl for many, many years too.
And things just shifted, a lotof it is neurological, you go
back into from more of anadolescent, early adult
melatonin cycle until one morelike little ones. And we all go
back to everything, hopefullyyou leave, but we have to go
back into diapers. So it's partof the cycle of life. But

(06:40):
meditation is actually easy whenyou use so if anything, if
you're going to the gym six daysa week, you just go to the gym.
If you take books out of thelibrary, don't don't even know
about Amazon, just go to thelibrary and get books, whatever
we do, we were good atrepetition, which is a wonderful
thing, or an awful thing. That'skind of the yin and yang of it

(07:00):
all. So I recommend it toanybody meditate early in the
morning, get a cup of coffee,sit down with a coffee and just
breathe. It's actually so easy.
It's so simple. And everyoneeveryone makes such a big deal
of oh my god, you got to get thething and the puja and thing in
the lotus position and the chinwould draw. No, you just need to

(07:21):
sit in a comfortable placecomfortable clothing and let the
universe base down on you.
That's all just be.

Steve Bisson (07:32):
And it doesn't even have to be in the morning.
Because I'm a night meditator

Patrick Rice (07:36):
you can absolutely use and yeah, I

Steve Bisson (07:39):
get my bedtime routine that is part of my
bedtime routine. It's almostlike my body getting ready to go
to sleep. You know, you say youfall asleep. For me, it's kind
of like a way to just calm mybody down and actually start
like almost a sleep cycle beforeI get to my sleep cycle.

Patrick Rice (07:55):
But it's also I use an awful lot just the block
thing, you know, external noiseI'll use tapes of the different
solfeggio frequencies to havebasically respond to different
chakras in the body. And he'll,you know, it's all frequency
behind me. Maybe you can see itnow is a

Steve Bisson (08:17):
so you got your bowl, your singing bowl.

Patrick Rice (08:21):
Yeah, it's a it's a quartz bowl, that's a perfect
F which is the heart chakra,which one of my teachers had
this in her office and insistedthat I get one as well, because
that's where most of the damagewas done in my emotional being
and my histories and all ofthat. And these are powerful

(08:41):
things, their energy. Everythingwe talked about here reverts
back to energy, whether it'sshamanism, or spirit or
whatever. It's all about energy.
Everything that is around us iscoming from energy and we
exchange energy. Not this whythe brain is a mystery to us as
to how it works. We barely know15 20% of how the brain works.

(09:03):
But what is consciousness? Thatis something that is more of the
Spirit field, if you willquantum field then it is of this
four dimensional existence thatwe see in front of us. And it's
funny, we talk about Yin andYang and absolutes and infinity
and all of these things ineternity and how big is the

(09:26):
universe all of theseimponderables. But when you
think about it, it could verywell be that we have one
absolute, and it's an energeticabsolute in our physical
universe. And that's the speedof light. That seems to be one
of those limits to everything.
But everything comes from light.
If light is a source of allenergy, we start to thence see

(09:48):
that this is just the beginningof a journey. And we're curious
beings and we spend so much timein what's at least in our
civilization. What's thecivilizations studying things,
looking at things and otherthings, physical things and more
of the Aboriginal spiritualbeings. They saw more of what

(10:09):
was in where we came from whatwe're so that's how the
Aboriginal, just when we thinkof aborigines off in this
country, we think of Australianaborigines. So the original
natives to that continent, know,and they'll sit out there in a
loincloth and with very little,you know, probably in a desert
setting, looking very primitive.

(10:33):
And yet, they are probably farmore evolved than our way. I'll
speak a little bit later to afriend, I reconnected with
extraordinary healer and humanbeing in Maine. And what her
sense of this place we're in andwho our greatest teachers are
here, it will surprise you, itprobably won't, it probably

(10:54):
won't surprise you, it's thebutt. Then she wrote a wonderful
book about it as well. So we'lltalk about Carrie a little bit
later. So we think about it isall about energy.

Steve Bisson (11:04):
Right? And I think that we can go in right away
about Carrie. The one thing Iwant to mention is Reiki is
something that I practicemyself, I am a Reiki
practitioner, I am not ateacher. And yesterday, we had a
get together in my office. And alot of people asked me questions
about Reiki and how it works andall that. I think that that's

(11:26):
what I think I can't rememberJoe's name. There's a book I'm
reading right now. And it talksabout how energy is something
that people can't see. So theycan't they struggle with it. But
when all reality, you don't seeoxygen, you don't see the sun,
you don't see a lot of theenergy that's out there. So why
would we be connected throughenergy?

Patrick Rice (11:45):
Well, it's also in what do we have faith. And I
don't understand electricity.
Even though I was studying atone time to be a physicist. I
don't really understand it,okay, electrons bouncing along a
wire and saying, I don't know.
However, I have the faith, theyhave this device plugged in. I
have my cell phone being chargedright now by this mysterious
force. So if you're looking iswe do in the recovery movement

(12:09):
for higher power very often itcan be electricity, actually,
there's the arcane literature ofAlcoholics Anonymous talks about
that is a concept of if you canbelieve in electricity, you can
believe in a higher power. Itdoesn't have to be something
that we consider more of as aJudeo Christian or other type of
deity. deities were created byhuman beings for to try to get a

(12:33):
sense of what they couldn'tunderstand. Whether it's a
pantheistic view, or I know afellow from Nepal, which says I
have hundreds of gods andgoddesses when you're stuck with
just one. But there's a I'mgoing to show because we have a
camera. Now, if people are outthere, and they're interested in
either Reiki and they don't knowmuch about it. Or shamanism.

(12:55):
Here's one stop shopping righthere.

Steve Bisson (12:58):
Oh, wow. So it says For those on podcast,
Reiki, shamanism, a guide to outof body healing, and it's by Jim
Pathfinder,

Patrick Rice (13:09):
I believe, you know, Jim Pathfinder, Ewing.

Steve Bisson (13:12):
So for those of you on YouTube, you can see it
otherwise, I wanted to say itout loud racing Shaman.

Patrick Rice (13:17):
And that's it.
It's a book. It's a fairly newbook, it's, let's see, what is
it? That was just this is one ofthe things that every now and
again, just pick up, it was2008. So it's, it's still in
print. But it's kind of one stopshopping for anyone who's
curious about it. ExplainingReiki in a very, very secular
way. There's no real, Ishouldn't say a cult language

(13:40):
here, she just really practicalstuff and explaining how the use
of Reiki energy, that source ofenergy is done is done
symbolically and other thingsthat kind of generate this or
attract this energy through thepractitioner through us. Many of
my patients, so there's a scenewhere you give it to your

(14:02):
children. It's called call itReiki, mommy love, okay, you
hold them, you love them, youyou give them your being, give
them everything that isimportant to you, as you hold
them and sue them and all ofthat. It's the same stuff. It's
just that you haven't had aformal attunement and you do it
intuitively with your parentsand your children. In the worst

(14:26):
form of it, that's a form ofcodependency problem. But we
won't go there, because you careso much that it can hurt that
you can take that hurt andtranslate it into a loving
presence and a loving energy.
Right? It's a funny thing I'vesaid many times when people say
well, you're a Reiki Master,what do you do I so I don't

(14:46):
really do hands on Reiki veryoften. I work with so much
trauma that it wasn'tappropriate in my practice,
right? When you really need veryrigid boundaries, especially
being a white male. And it's Afemale nurses over the years I
worked with many, many, many ofthem extraordinary people, they
could touch and hold and hugchildren and things like that,

(15:08):
which I couldn't do because ofthe natural boundary, especially
with her children. It's a funnything. When I reconnected with
my friend Carrie Keegan, I knewher many years ago. I knew we
were all family, but she wasspecial to me. We were pals. And
she was a bit younger than I butwe work together. And we go
every noontime and swim. And itwas like riding in my big gold

(15:31):
Cadillac down in Portland fromYarmouth, Maine, and, and would
swim laps every day, the YWCA,whatever, we're just chat, and
we work together in differentshifts and things like that. But
we're always pals. It was one ofthose special relationships and
has life would have it Idisappeared when I get sober and
just disappeared. I literallyran for my life. From that

(15:52):
place. I live for two decades.
And and we reconnected aroundthis podcast, actually, really?
Yeah, it

Steve Bisson (16:00):
was three interview, but it might be nice
for you. It was,

Patrick Rice (16:03):
Well, I kind of reconnected with her because of
she is a healer, a remarkablehealer. And I ran into something
on Oh, there's a group in Maine,sold connection, or forgive me
for not knowing exactly what itis. But it's a consortium. It's
kind of like an onlineconsortium real of energy

(16:25):
healers and whatever. And I sawthat she was a part of that. And
then I said to get curious. Sobefore I contacted her, I
basically just started vettingher and chasing and seeing what
she was doing. And then we weresupposed to have a meeting the
other day, I was going to go toMaine and I couldn't. So we did
the Zoom call, as we do as shesays a zoom all over the world

(16:49):
of my clients. So she's told mesomething that I've said many a
time, just to my ownunderstanding of my, my use of
Reiki, I always saw it to attachto words and metaphor, and my
practice so that my words, thetrying to help somebody would
have more power, or moreauthentic healing ability.

(17:12):
That's all just please make meuseful. Right? That's basically
the prayer if you will, just letme be helpful and useful for
somebody. And in doing that,over the years, I'd hear myself
someone asked me a question, andI just give it a shot. Like, do
I have an answer or an opinion?
Well, it's hard to tell which iswhich. But I would just say what
I felt I knew. And many times,I'd be like standing beside

(17:34):
myself going cheese that soundsgood with that come from, you
know, literally. And now I knowwhere it comes from. It comes
from the from where we all camefrom, and the guides that are
helping me and, and sending meIntel, as Carrie says, but she
told me something 40 years ago,she said you were already
helping people, you helped meyou how many people and she said

(17:56):
what I remembered when I heardyour podcast, because she was
privy when we connected on oneof the social media sites, they
would probably Instagram orFacebook, she's on Facebook, to
the podcast that she said, Waita minute, I heard your voice.
And I've heard this my studentsto my former students, when they
hear the voice, it's coming backto them the literally the voice

(18:19):
carries as a form of energy,it's vibration. It's all the
same stuff, just differentfrequencies. And so that's one,
call it the gift of gab thatIrish people get but there's
something about that. And I knewthat intuitively. And she just
basically reinforced that orvalidated that. So there are

(18:40):
many ways to use the energy, thehealing energy that the universe
makes available for us. And ittakes some practice and skill
but there's a lot of it that isalready intuitive. We all know
people that are not clinicianscertainly are healers by trade
or by design or by selfadmission. But you just feel

(19:02):
better when you're around them.
They're enthusiastic. Now, as weknow that word means in its
origins from God and Theo's fromGod, it's divine energy when you
see enthusiastic people. Cananyone in a room not laugh when
a little kid is giggling wildly?
The belly laugh of a child,right? You know, the especially

(19:25):
in church or someplace where no,there's a smile on everybody's
face because it's infectious butin a joyful way. And that is
just part of this healing energythat's available to all of us.
And one of the great sources ofchanneling that are connecting
to it and connecting to yourguides are shamanistic practices
and there are many shamanisticpractices, Aboriginal shamanism

(19:49):
modern shamanism, Reikishamanism, this light, I was
shocked. I found this book insome bookstore someplace and I
go Oh my God, I didn't know. Inever know about this. But it's
a great guide to a curiousbeginner or just someone who's
curious. I hear about this Reikishoemaking stuff. What is this?

Steve Bisson (20:12):
Back on my law enforcement? Yep,

Patrick Rice (20:14):
what would you said? But yeah, we're you know,
the woowoo stuff. Well, it'sabout the wool field and look
that one up the warfield it'sit's a field of energy. And so
we have great capacity to helpeach other, heal each other. The
time is right, with the chaosthat is running rampant in
society today. And everyoneclashing and shaking their

(20:36):
heads, you know that there are alot of beings that are coming in
and are evolving here that arehere to help the lightworkers
that are here to shed light ondark areas and illuminate. So we
have all these metaphors forenlightenment and illumination
and all of that. And if you wantone, one metaphoric description

(20:59):
of what it's like on the otherside is, it's all like that, but
the closer you get to the sourceof this site, which call it God,
call it whatever, right, youhave to be attuned and evolved
to be able to tolerate theintensity of that light. It's
like anything, you come out of acave, like we are on the earth,

(21:19):
we live in a spiritual chain,and all of a sudden, you come
out into the light, and you wereall blinded by it. Well, that's
similar on the other side, soyou have to evolve and attune
yourself and learn. So whateverwe are our sense of our, our
spiritual entity, that ball ofenergy, or whatever it is, it's
eternal. It's as curious as theuniverse is, the universe is a

(21:43):
curious place. We're here tolearn school.

Steve Bisson (21:46):
Just gotta remind people, we're listening to
finding your way throughtherapy. I'm sitting here with
Pat rice. And I'm Stevie. Sothere's so many things that came
up while you were talking. I'mwriting notes as I go here. Now
that I have video, I gottaexplain what I'm doing. I was
thinking about by had a happyhour non alcoholic, of course,
with a bunch of colleagues inthe MetroWest. area. And it was

(22:09):
interesting when you think aboutthe vibe and the energy, the
energy in that room was soelectrifying because it was the
first time I think in two and ahalf years for some that they
actually went face to face andmet up with individuals. And you
talk about how we connect, Ithink that part of connection

(22:29):
with individuals, when I look atour relationship, and I look at
other relationships in my life,someone said, what's the thing
about Pat rice that you connectwith, and I connect with him,
there's an energy that goes withthat. And having a room full of
people who are just connectingon not feeling so alone,
counselors like psychiatrists,coaching, there's plenty of

(22:51):
people that were there, it'sjust being able to connect
sometimes is not explaining whythe connection is there. But
rather like, that's just theconnection, you were talking
about Carrie, and you said, youhave a good connection with her.
To me, that's what when we askedabout Reiki and how that works.
I don't know why I connect withXYZ, I just connect. And

(23:11):
sometimes it's just not, you canbe very spiritual and be very
curious about it. I've learnedthat instead of trying to find a
reason why, and that's a shoutout to my therapist.

Patrick Rice (23:22):
Why ask why? Why does it matter? As much as how,
how does it work? It works, itworks very well just access it.
We're used to this is an oldtrite saying, but you know, the
goal is to become a human beinginstead of a human doing. Right,
and we're a very busy society.
Now. America is essentially aworkaholic environment. You

(23:43):
know, everybody's working harderand harder to get more stuff.
And panic. And everybody panicswhen certain stuff becomes not
available, which is by marketeconomies make money. Well, we
go, we don't need to go there.
But I think you're this kindredspirit that we hear about, which

(24:06):
is why there are so many spinoffs and post op mutual self
help groups because there'ssomething about the energy in
the room. That's why people liketo meditate often in groups and
or do yoga in groups andwhatever because there's an
energy, the spirit energy buildsup in these rooms, you feel
better there. It's like oldgrowth forests have the have

(24:28):
very spiritual energy to them.
And they also have the highestoxygen content of any
environment on Earth. It isn'tan oxygen tank. So there's a
reason you feel better whenyou're in the old growth. A
spiritual place is some of theold growth in Northern
California. The old growthredwood, Sequoia, unbelievable
places. It's the most spiritualJurassic experience you'll have.

(24:51):
Everything is big there cloversof the size of your fist. Your
hand and it's amazing Right, itmakes you think that Gulliver
must have walked through one ofthose. I mean, when he did the
thing about Rob naggy and orwhatever it is running was huge.
Yeah, but it's these places aresacred places, and a place where
everybody does yoga and thenmeditates afterwards like to

(25:15):
Paulo methods, and is reallytheir special places in the land
of zoom now in COVID, andeverything, I've been very
conservative because I need toget a PCR to get onto a plane to
go to Bermuda next week. Andwhat a first world problem that
so I missed the live meetings, Imissed the room, I missed that

(25:37):
energy, I miss seeing the lightcoming in people's eyes when
they start to feel better, andcome back to Earth. And to see
that you can see it a little biton Zoom. But it's something
about the emanation, you feel itin your heart, when you're in a
room with it. It's a heartcentered thing in the head
center thing. The heart has itsown consciousness. It's a

(26:00):
remarkable Oregon, they can takeone out of someone on the West
Coast and stick in a bucket ofice, fly it to Boston, throw it
into someone's someone's chestcavity, and hook it all up. And
then jumpstarted like analternator in a car. It's just
amazing. But it has thisconsciousness. And so I spoke to
the up to that before butsomeone I knew that that donated

(26:22):
their heart. So it's justremarkable stuff. And I say what
my early mentors taught me andwhat the guides taught me. And I
can get into that a little bitdeeper is that don't question?
Just experience. Don't wonderwhere Reiki energy comes from
learn how to use it. Becausewhen you give it you get it?

(26:45):
It's like a hug.

Steve Bisson (26:49):
Right. And, and Reiki energy as I explained to
many people, it's not my energy.
It's the universe's No, no, it's

Patrick Rice (26:56):
part of everything. Everything has
energy. Everything is made up ofenergy. A rock is made up of
energy. There's, you know, andas I think I said the last time,
so how powerful is this energy,take one little atom that takes
the electron microscope to evensee and a hint of it. You split
that one atom and citiesdisappear. I mean, so you know,

(27:18):
the Big Bang is not a mystery,they got a few atoms together
and whatever was touched it off.
And then all of this ishappening. And, and I'm not
smart enough to know whathappens, what the end game is
here. But some say it allcollapses again and starts over.
It's that cycle of life, theultimate day, just last 27
billion years or something

Steve Bisson (27:40):
not smart enough or didn't study it enough.
Studying enough, I would go

Patrick Rice (27:44):
actually, I know now that someday if that is
important to me, I'll know thatagain. But it right now in this
plane of existence is not reallysomething my thing. But I trust
this energy implicitly, it's apart of who we are. It's a part
of me, it allows me to overridepain and difficulty and most of
the healers I know have had alot of pain. This is one of the

(28:07):
things that you know thehelpers, the healers, have
become aware of this, I'velistened to as you 1000s and
1000s, of stories of unspeakablethings that people have been
experienced in their lives atthe hands of often other people,
or just bad luck. My friendCarrie, who carry chigan I'm
gonna just say her name wasCarrie Keegan. And before I

(28:29):
forget it, I don't have a copyof it. She wrote a children's
book that is taking off nowabout her spirit guides, which
are essentially whales and youget the need to and learn more
about this woman and her work.
Because whales are the mostextraordinary beings on the
planet. They make us lookinsignificant at times. And of
course, we human beings areeliminating them. But they are

(28:52):
all about sound and the soundwaves and communications and and
she wrote a children's bookabout a whale named Herman and I
believe the title is Hardingwith Herman yes and that's

Steve Bisson (29:08):
that you are not alone is the rest of the title
actually I'm looking it up as wespeak ah magic of the internet.

Patrick Rice (29:17):
So what is the title actually? Because you

Steve Bisson (29:19):
Harding with Herman you are never alone. And
it is by Carrie Keagan. I'mgoing to actually link it in my
Oh, wonderful.

Patrick Rice (29:27):
Thank you so much.

Steve Bisson (29:27):
I'll link it for Carrie and

Patrick Rice (29:30):
she has a she has a website she has a she's a
remarkable energy healer,remarkable human being. And, you
know, I knew that way back whenI just didn't realize how much
of it I had to evolve. And thenwhen we both Connect Now
basically, we're getting excitedabout maybe some reconnection

(29:50):
and some real, some reallypowerful, sacred stuff probably
in Ireland.

Steve Bisson (29:57):
And I won't get too far I will stop you for a
second because As I know yourwife is listening, and she's
gonna say, you start talkingabout near death experience, you
change the subject, then keep iton subject, Steve. I don't know
her. I know she's a nice woman,but I want to keep you on
subject like she always told youto do.

Patrick Rice (30:14):
Alright, so where are we going back,

Steve Bisson (30:17):
you're going back to you're talking about carrying
the near death experience.

Patrick Rice (30:21):
Yes, she said three, at least, she said, She's
a remarkable woman withouttelling too much of her story.
It's probably common knowledge.
But she's she said, three, threechildren, the victim of three
accidents, at least MotorVehicle Type accidents in which
your back was broken. And shehealed herself through her own
energy work and everything. Onetook about 10 years and one took

(30:44):
a year. So she basically healedherself to this energy mental
and energetic meditation patharound shamanism, and basically
got out of a wheelchair. Wow.
And I saw her on a swing a videoof her and a swing not so long
ago, like a, like a four yearold and joyful on a swing. And

(31:05):
so this is how it evolved, shehas become and when you choose
to come back from these, theseplaces, it's best because you
have a sense of mission,sometimes is to raise children,
she's raised three extraordinaryyoung men. And she's visiting a
couple of them. One is a, an wasa professional athlete, soccer

(31:28):
player, I think one is aprofessional mountain climber,
sort of picture him on the topof the Mattawan. And one is in a
business plan and verysuccessful. And they're all
extraordinary people. And sheraised them essentially single
handedly. So she's one of theseincredible beings that it's it's

(31:49):
one of the joys and privilegesin my life to have survived long
enough from your wife toreconnect with her. And we both
know that it's not by chance,when you have these free
connections that this willenhance both of our abilities to
help each other and to helpothers. And that's part of the
synergy. When people are likeminded, we talked about that

(32:10):
kindred spirit when people arelike minded, the blend of their
energies magnifies everything,and attracts other people as
part of the law of attractionthat attracts other people of
like mine, which is why you goback to basic sociology people
live in groups, and the groupsare self selecting good and bad,
you know, healthy and unhealthy,violent and peaceful, whatever

(32:34):
they they are self selecting.
And it is energy. And I won't goto Yoda here. But the dark side
of the this force of energy ispart of everything. And that
makes people more primitive. Youalways do fall. When you if you
look at some of these hategroups, they're going right back
to caveman stuff. You pick aclub up and go out and said,
frankly, I'll editorialize someof that stuff. I saw the horror

(32:58):
of January 6 look like cavepeople look like have originals
or have been in the wrongsbasically warring, warring
primitive tribes. Well, itwasn't an evolved presence. In a
building that was supposed toexhibit some of our evolution,

(33:19):
hopefully, well, I'm

Steve Bisson (33:23):
going to quote Yoda, and one of my favorite
quotes. And for those of you whomay not know, I'm a huge Star
Wars fan. But when he says fearleads to anger, anger leads to
hate, hate leads to the darkside. And I always remind people
that that's tough. If we don'trecognize our fears, love,

(33:44):
whatever, doesn't matter whatyou're fearful of a way it can
lead you down this dark path.
And it's learning that the lightis available somewhere. And
you're able to go get it as longas you're open to it and you're
willing to go get. And it's notabout caving into your fears and
to hate but finding that light,you know, and I think that
that's one of the things whenpeople say to me in therapy, I'm

(34:06):
just not feeling it today. Aboutyou just let in and I don't say
light because my, my crowd maynot like light. But what about
just thinking about somethingpositive or something that's
good in your life, whether it'sa family member, whether it's
enjoying XYZ in your life, andthen people smile, and I'm like,
How do you feel now? And they'relike, Oh, a little better. Like

(34:26):
that's how you lead into lightso to speak. That's when I can
put in the light. analogy. Well,

Patrick Rice (34:32):
you're sharing, you're sharing some of your
enthusiasm. I was thinking thismorning, I woke up with people
around me talking so much. I donot read the news. I do not
know, we're very little ofcommon current events, because
there's not much I can do aboutthem. And they can be
distracting. Not that I don'tcare if people are getting hurt,
whatever. But all of the stuffthat's been happening recently

(34:55):
the violence is that it remindsme of Voltaire quote by Altair
where he said, If you can getpeople to believe absurdities
you can get them to commitatrocities. You also, if you can
get them to believe absurditiesyou can get them to accept and
become inured to atrocitieswhere a million people die in

(35:17):
two years from COVID and we hada lot of people trying to block
treatment and things like thatever. To me we lose a million
Americans in two years and it'slike oh hon well oh well and or
now you know, Americans I thinkwe kill each other with guns at
the rate of about 50,000 a yearyou know, if there was a disease

(35:39):
that have a fundraising youknow, saying every year an
annual thing, but the fact thatwe can accept that as a society
is because we become inured toit and so much of our society
can believe absurdities well,well we talked about we what we
were talking about last night atthe event you know, the
networking thing is how do wehelp and the theme is, is that

(36:01):
so many of us are in our busy tothe power we never expected we
this busy because people aresearching for something. If
people can open themselves up aseither wanting to be helpers or
to be users of this energy,which is limitless, and the
ability of your spirit guidesand your guides to help you in

(36:25):
this lifetime are limitless, butyou must learn how to ask for so
it may be a good time now tokind of shift how about this pet
rice is actually shifting on topand I'm gonna let you host now.
Okay, write the write the datedown, this actually happened.
But about the spirit guides andthat aspect of shamanism.
Shamanism can be many things.
It's essentially in its its mostbasic definition, as I

(36:49):
understand it. It's seekingconnection guidance from your
spirit guides and throughmeditation or trance. A lot of
the Aboriginal guides includingnative North Americans and First
Nation people, their rituals toseek their their guides or their
ancestors or whatever werethrough peyote and mescaline and

(37:12):
IO, Aashka, Amazon and otherhallucinogenic substances, or
dancing, drumming, exhaustion,sweating, and these types of
sweat lodge rituals and can doit through meditation. You can
do it through self hypnosis,that's been my path. Mostly,
it's how I heal from most of thetrauma in my early life

(37:35):
experience is through what wouldbe called dissociative type of
self hypnosis is part of why thepeople dissociate and repress is
to keep you alive, havingendured and witnessed and things
that are, that would scrambleyour sensibility, but that's
available to everybody. Psychic,being psychic is available to

(37:57):
everybody. Kids are remarkablypsychic because it's surrounded
by the guy, there are noimaginary friends. Those aren't
imaginary to the children thatwe just can't see them. So this
imaginary friends metaphorevolved. No, those are their
guides. Those are their spiritsin their their ascended beings
and their experience guides andtheir angels. There's many words

(38:18):
for it. Archangels I'm kind ofpartial to the archangels I'm in
the worst pain of my life. I'mpetitioning Archangel Raphael to
come. rafaelle didn't comedirectly sent my wife was a
Reiki Master in three hours.
This is a ruptured disc, youknow, worst pain I've ever had.

(38:41):
I thought I knew 10 out of 10pain. Woohoo. And I just one of
the things Carrie and I weretalking about that broken backs
and stuff. Then my wife gothome. Finally, all she had to do
was touch me and a half my painwent away. She touched me and I
could move. And that isso emotional. That is because

(39:02):
she is attuned to this. She camehome from work in Boston,
because I was she knew my stateof being. And she has that
ability. She practices for Reikimostly on animals. She's an
animal Reiki master. And I coulddo a whole podcast talking about
her and what I've watched her dowith deer and other things. You

(39:23):
know, Cynthia whisperer, but shetouched me and half the pain
went away. So I could actuallyget to the prednisone thing that
my doctor had prescribed. Icouldn't even couldn't even
reach it. And so these are thethings that experientially I
have endured and experience butI had a curiosity and because I
was able to do what you're doingis asking someone this had a

(39:46):
different experience in me.
What's it all about? I wasputting in the path of a Reiki
Master who was in my practice 30years ago and I was just
curious. So I went to a couple Ithink I spoke to this earlier on
earlier part caspo just gettingcurious with choline. And, and I
haven't looked back, becauseit's just the neatest stuff. We

(40:07):
say a lot in all professions.
Isn't it incredible? When youfind out that this stuff really
works, the stuff that peopletalk about in the books, and you
try it, and it actually works.
And there's no more powerfulsatisfaction when you're trying
to help somebody. And they insome way indicate to you that
you have helped them through adifficult time. If you're a get

(40:29):
hooked on that you're in thewrong profession. That's the
juice that keeps us going.
That's why everybody was in thatroom last night, is looking for
resources and connections. Andbecause we can easily if we
don't stay connected, which iswhy we've had this supervision
group peer group for so long,we'll lose our way because it's
it. The Dark Forces from whichwe're trying to help people heal

(40:51):
can affect us as well. It'scalled vicarious, traumatization
and other other things, but wehave got to keep ourselves in
the good energy and charged up.
Or we're no better than a cellphone with a dead battery. It's
just an $800 paperweight. Right.
And so,

Steve Bisson (41:10):
I think that, you know, just what, again, remind
people finding your way throughtherapy Pat, right, Stevie. So
he's now the host of the show,but I have to put in a little
plug. One of the things that Iwanted to throw out is that when
they talk about spiritualenergy, shamanistic spirit
guides, or what we do, I tellpeople all the time that what I
do is there is some training,but ultimately, it's the

(41:34):
therapeutic alliance. It's not atraining of XYZ that helped me
get there. It's how I connectwith the person in front of me.
So when people say what's thebest therapy like therapeutic
alliance and that therapeutictherapeutic alliance, you can
find that at your hairdresser?
Well, for most people, not me,but for most people are a barber
because you connect with them.

(41:54):
They hear your life and you justhave that commonality. You talk
about shamanistic stuff, youtalk about spiritual spiritual
guides you talk about I think,then when you have that
connection, that therapeuticalliance and it doesn't have to
be mental how train masterslevel, blah, blah, blah.
Therapeutic connection istherapeutic connection. And I
think that alliance is reallywhat I think that even if we

(42:18):
have a therapeutic alliance,meaning you pat, and so I
perceive it anyway. And it's notbecause you're training XYZ or
and I'm training ABC, it's abouthow we connected. And that's the
energy that I keep on comingback to all the

Patrick Rice (42:33):
time. I know some of the greatest therapists that
I know actually cut people'shair. I'm serious, I believe it.
I have a friend Karen and she'sbeen doing it a long time. And
she's unbelievably good at it.
And she's sure to refer to me.
Because she'll listen, I said,you know, you do what I do,
Karen every day, I just wantedto cut anybody's hair. Because

(42:55):
if someone will let someone nearyour face with sharp objects and
everything, to do your cloth,and to which means a lot to some
people, they trust you. And whenthey're trusting like that,
they'll tell you almostanything. Right? You know,
because they trust you andyou'll let you're a good
listener, as you're a snippingand cutting and doing whatever
you're doing. So the heel hascome in so many different

(43:18):
packages, it's but they all haveone thing in common that you've
alluded to, is that they canchannel this loving, healing,
unconditional acceptance, andthe ability to bear your to help
you share your pain. I tellpeople this all the time,
sometimes a good friend willshare something with you. That

(43:39):
is a very powerful thing. Andyou sit there going I don't know
how they've endured this. Youknow, how can anybody survived
that because you haven'tsurvived that yourself. I say,
I'll tell people that all thetime is that you don't. You
don't have to figure out howthey endure it or how someone
else could have done that tothem. You figure out how you can
help them and listen and takecare of yourself and process,

(44:02):
your confusion or your outrage,or whatever. Early in my
experience as a detox counselor,a woman you know, I'm a white
guy with a pink tie on.
Honestly, I can't write this. A40 year old white guy, you know,
brand new minted counselor in apublic detox. And a woman

(44:23):
slightly younger than me is inthere, strung out on cocaine.
She's a 38 year old woman ofcolor from Banda pan or
something. And I'm trying to doa bio psychosocial on her and
part of it was to basically askher, is your addiction cost you
anything or something? Someone'sstupid? Yeah. I rewrote that
thing. The next week, that wholebio psych social. And she looked

(44:47):
at me with this tired look,tolerant look of my idiocy, and
said Well, other than the factthat I traded my daughter for
cocaine. No, not much. And I satthere and I said, I'm so sorry.
And I said, I think we need toend this now. And she said,
thank you. And she went backoutside and I put my head on my

(45:09):
desk and wept. And the nextthing I felt, the next thing I
did is I went out and found mysupervisor, and we sat and
talked for an hour and a half,about what were the mistakes and
he gave me the permission atthat point in time to rewrite
that bio psychosocial, becauseit was written, well intended,

(45:31):
but like an idiot, you know, Iwas I was set up, and I didn't
realize it, but that poor womanand then I had time to before
she left to process for abjectpain.

Steve Bisson (45:45):
And can you explain that for those who might
not know what that means?

Patrick Rice (45:49):
abject pain, yeah, excruciating pain. And she did
admit one thing is she's she shetold me exactly what that
metaphor it's so my child forcocaine men, it wasn't what I
thought it meant. It was adifferent experience of it. But
in her mind, she had sold outher child in a way. But it was

(46:11):
this a guy on the West Coast,Paul ah, who has a Buddhist site
called Zen bitch slap. Andforgive me that can be a very
pejorative term to some Forgiveme if that offensive, but it's
that two by four upside thehead, as we used to say, and
that was mine is the fact that Ineeded to learn a lot more about

(46:32):
how to ask the for theinformation I needed then to
just follow the instructions ofthese bio psychosocial as in
anyone that has ever been ajunior clinician, at masters or
bachelors level, you fill theseforms out, it's just
information. They take a historyon some of the and some of them
are crafted very intuitively,and very smartly and others are

(46:53):
just crafted in a very mindlessway. And I, I was able to change
that. But it awakened me to thefact that I knew a lot about me,
and my own experience at thatpoint. But it also set me off on
knowing what turned out to beanother 13 years after four

(47:13):
years of intensive psychotherapyanother 13 years to learn about,
about everything that I neededto know about me, so I knew
where my stuff ended and thepatient's stuff began. And
that's a tough line. It's andyou make all your mistakes in
the therapeutic alliance youmake by crossing that line.

(47:34):
Right for as is this this mentorof mine said that the smart
therapist knows what to say andthe wise therapist knows when
not to say it especially withinyou know in advance the perfect
stuff and sharing hunches andright. So it's everything I one
thing I think I've been true towe had Nick there, one of my

(47:55):
students last night is that I'vetried to share every one of my
worst therapeutic blunders withevery student I've ever had.
Because we all have toeverybody, you know, a carpenter
will say don't do this, becauseI saw someone cut his leg off
when you did. Well, most of usdo that as well. And we can do
as much damage without words assomeone can do with a chainsaw.

(48:20):
We have to be we owe it toourselves and everyone else to
be very careful with words. Ithink the Buddha said if you
can't improve upon silence,don't.

Steve Bisson (48:31):
Right. So give us a Buddha quote.

Patrick Rice (48:35):
There was about a year most of my stuff I stole
from Buddha I just forgot that Iread it.

Steve Bisson (48:40):
But I think that what you just said is so
powerful because one of thethings that I kind of remind my
clients to once in a while sitback and I have an observation
in my head not the time not theplace, right time my place and
all that. But my clients knowwhen I say sorry, you just
thought you just asked me asoftball. We're going to hit out
at a park Do you want a home runor you want to single here

Patrick Rice (49:03):
well I said again I will you accept unsolicited
feedback often isn't helpful andbut solicited feedback can be I
think as I'm getting myself backon topic, I want to say one last
thing about shamanism and ingeneral the traditional
shamanism is about connectingwith your animal spirit guide
that everybody who supposedlyhas an animal guide that helps

(49:25):
us in this pedestrian Earthschool. I frankly have tried
those traditional methods to getback into the earth if you will
and find my spirit guides andI'm confused by it. I never
really found a animal spirit.
You know other than a wrapped orprobably wrapped or is
absolutely fascinated me. I findthem I've come face to face on
the ground on a beach in Oregon.

(49:49):
There's only two people on thatbeach. An eagle and me and for
that moment in time when yourealize how big they are. An
eagle took that a look at me atsix o'clock in the morning. He
and I sat right down on the sandbecause for that moment, I said,
I'm too big right to myself,because they have a look. Whoa,
that apex predator look, we sawa once in a while the black

(50:12):
Jaguar to charge the edge of thecage once in the sanctuary where
they were rehabbing them. Youhad that luck. And you knew that
if that thing came at you,unimportant, you're done. Right?
This is an unequivocal, notknowledge. And I'm lunch. But so
I've never really found thatconnection to an animal spirit
guide. But I have found myguides in many different

(50:35):
meditative paths and byconnection to some really
extraordinary teachers andpeople that are very gifted and
have taught me how to use mypsychic abilities in the right
ways as well. So I find myconnection to my guides in a
much more direct way. Some ofthem are probably what people
would call traditional angelicbeings. Others are just

(50:58):
ancestors. I've had people I'veknown that are now back in the
homeland, if we will, as a homeoffice, it's using them. I said
this every time probably I'vetalked with you that the thing I
would like to communicate is,whether it's an archangel,
whether it is the spirit guide,whether it is your grandmother,
your mother, your brother,Whoever is not with us, now,

(51:19):
they have the capacity to helpyou but you must ask daily,
right, it's a daily thing isthat they will never interfere
in your day, even though theycan they will never interfere in
a way that would intrude orinsinuate them into they will
never interfere, they will notcheat you out of your own karma.

(51:41):
However, if we ask they willhelp us in any way they can.
Archangels are not overburdened,they are at a higher level,
because they have almostinfinite capacity to help. They
can just do what they can do.
And there's plenty of them,investigate them. It's really
kind of interesting. A few haveactually walked on earth before
and that way some haven't. They,they've never found it necessary

(52:04):
to come to the euro school totake your course. guides are
available, everyone has them.
They're all available tool to usand to reconnect to these guides
that brought us in and protectedus when we were little and
taught us what they needed toteach us. It's available to
everybody and finding a path andif you're curious again the

(52:26):
Reiki shamanism I'm not Hakkathe book, it's I don't even know
where I got it. Probably anOregon, it's a way just to, it's
an overview of all of it. Ifyou're curious, I'll say this to
anybody out there. If any ofthis piques your curiosity, then
that's a that's an informationto you. I want to go we were
saying earlier that when whenlearners are ready teaches

(52:47):
appear. That's good. You know,and so sometimes it's in the
form of a book falls off a shelfmetaphorically into your lap.
Right? When someone gives youit, you run into somebody or I
reconnect with someone andthere's a they hear a podcast
and they remember what we hadwhen we were much, much younger
and less evolved. And wereconnected at a time when we

(53:10):
both have the winter plumage.
But get curious about HermanHerman the whale. Yeah, Romans
Herman's appearance, heart, andit is it's it's a very, very
powerful thing from a very, verypowerfully powerful healer. Mr.
Carey, Keegan,

Steve Bisson (53:27):
I just want to get back to the spirit animal one
because some people will saydoes do those things exists. For
me, I've always been attractedto wolves. Why? I don't know
probably some ancestry pastlives or what have you. And I've
always found that's my spiritanimal in many, many ways. And

(53:49):
so how people sometimes ask meabout that spiritual animal, I
said, What animal fascinates,you're like you have more of a
curiosity about that might beyour spiritual animal. It
doesn't have to be in thetraditional 1214 animals that
sometimes people talk about.
There's 1000s upon 1000s ofdifferent species of animals.

Patrick Rice (54:11):
We're hoping it wouldn't be a beetle or
something, you know, but you'realways looking for that
romantic. I love raptors, but Iactually it just came to me. I
once did a traditional deep diveinto the shamanistic meditative
path to find my hand and youknow what it was just came back
to me an otter. Oh, okay. Andwhen you think about it, you

(54:33):
know, I'm my wife lives with atrach tune character most of the
time. You have no idea. He looksso professional and everything
like that. I live with goofy,you know, and whatever. But so
it could very well be that thatis that. Otters are playful and
kind and amazing, and they areenergetic beings. And so I just

(54:53):
remembered that an otter,

Steve Bisson (54:55):
right, and I think that any type of animal that you
can name they have have theirplace in the whole system. Yeah.
And that's what I tell people isthat even though you said a
beetle, maybe it's not a beetle,but it could be, be it could be.
Firefly could be so many otherthings. And we all need those
animals in in the world. Ibelieve in interconnectedness.

(55:19):
And that's how I perceive

Patrick Rice (55:21):
maybe really annoying people their guide as a
mosquito, or something just justbeing goofy against forgive me.

Steve Bisson (55:29):
Well, I love that that bad as we approach the hour
yet again,

Patrick Rice (55:34):
oh, my goodness.
Really? Yeah.

Steve Bisson (55:38):
I'm going to wrap it up here by saying that I
think we have another episode inus.

Patrick Rice (55:43):
I bet we do. But I never really got to you were
curious once about pharmacologyand pharmaceutical stuff, and,
and Nate natural pharmaceuticalstuff and all that.

Steve Bisson (55:55):
And I thought we'd get to it but the shamanistic
stuff, but as usual, me and youjust go right, we

Patrick Rice (55:59):
scratched the surface of the shamanistic
stuff. So that'd be a good placeto buy chapter two, or at some
point in the future near future.

Steve Bisson (56:07):
Well, that means episode, I don't know which one,
which hopefully, six, wouldthere be?

Patrick Rice (56:13):
Such right here get the sequencing thing going
here?

Steve Bisson (56:17):
Yeah, it would be 65, I believe would be the next
episode. You gotta be on anorder? No,

Patrick Rice (56:21):
but I want to, I want to put it in a plug. Yes.
I'm going to ask her, but youshould get carry on to do one of
these? Well,

Steve Bisson (56:29):
I have a slight idea about this. And we'll talk
about it often. But I justwanted to say thank you, Pat.
And from the bottom of my heart.
Not only are you know, I jokedaround in regards to, you know,
the being the most popularepisodes. And that's why I have
to have you back constantly. Ican't think of a better way for
us to continue to connect. And Ithink that this connection also

(56:49):
feeds other people, includingCarrie, I've had a lot of
feedback about how good energywe have together. And so for me,
it's not only a podcast episode,but it's a great way to connect
with your pet. Because to me,it's just an intimate
conversation that people areprivy to.

Patrick Rice (57:06):
Well, thank you, my dear friend. It's a privilege
for me as well. And it's really,it's just fun. Steve, you make
it fun. But I'll tell you whatKerry said last night, she said
thank you. She's a very, veryhumble person. And it would be
interesting, I'd love to hearthat. So it's I'm shamelessly
selfish in that regard. Butwell, thank you, Pat. Thank you

(57:31):
so much.

Steve Bisson (57:32):
I'll talk you off here, obviously, but okay.

Patrick Rice (57:36):
Okay, thanks again, Steve.

Steve Bisson (57:38):
Well, this concludes episode 54. Finding
your way through therapy again,Pat rice, thank you so much as
usual, we didn't stay onsubject, but we did talk about a
few important things. And afterthe interview, I talked to him
off air about an idea for ournext podcast, which obviously,
he's going to come back forseason six. So looking forward
to that. And if you want anylinks to Pat Rice's Instagram

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and stuff, please go to theshownotes. Episode 55 will be
again with returning guests.
This time it will be character Land build when else we're going
to talk about crisis work, we'reactually going to take a little
bit of a different approach toit. And I'm sure that it's going
to be entertaining, so I hopethat you can join us for
episode. Please like, subscribeor follow this podcast on your

(58:22):
favorite platform. A glowingreview is always helpful. And as
a reminder, this podcast is forinformation, educational, and
entertainment purposes. Ifyou're struggling with a mental
health or substance abuse issue,please reach out to a
professional counselor ortherapist for consultation.