November 14, 2023 • 30 mins
In this episode of our Housing for Prevention series, Rebekah Moses with GBV Consulting talks with Mel Pasignajen about prevention lessons learned from working in the domestic violence, sexual violence, and HIV fields. This episode is part of a series on housing for prevention that we co-created with the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence.
For more information and transcripts visit www.nsvrc.org/podcasts
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(00:00):
Welcome to Resource on the Go, a podcast from the National Sexual Violence
Resource Center, an understanding, responding to, and preventing sexual
abuse and assault. I'm Louie Marven, and I'm a project coordinator at the
NSVRC. Today's episode is part of a series on housing for prevention that
we co created with the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence.
(00:20):
Our organizations collaborate on an initiative that supports advocates in
meeting the housing needs of survivors. And in reflecting on that work together,
we became eager to talk about the ways that housing is also a
tool for preventing violence. Today you're going to hear Rebekah Moses with
GBV Consulting interview clinician activist, queer survivor, Mel Pasignajen.
(01:01):
Hello everyone, and welcome to a podcast in NSVRC series on housing and
sexual violence prevention. My name is Rebekah Moses, pronouns she and eir.
I'm with GBV Consulting and I have the distinct honor and pleasure to
be joined by Mel, whose pronouns are she/they. Mel is a brown,
(01:26):
Latinx, Filipinx queer activist, survivor and clinician who has aspired
to be in the trenches of serving in uplifting communities in need since
they were a young person in school. Being first generation US born,
Mel's passion for social justice equity and recreating systems that are
affirming and inclusive of intersecting identities stems from their own
(01:52):
family's narrative of navigating various systems as immigrants and as a
person reclaiming space and promoting healing. They're currently pursuing
a PhD in gender and sexual fluidity while working as a clinical director
of a co occurring mental health and substance use community clinic.
Welcome, Mel. Thank you so much. It's truly an honor and a privilege
(02:16):
to be here. So let's chat about housing and sexual violence prevention.
Mel, for you, what is the connection between violence prevention and housing?
Such a valuable question. The question, right? So the very presence of housing
(02:39):
provides both an intrinsic and external level of safety, stability,
and subsequently a potential for an individual or persons to set out on
a positive trajectory. Right? If we were to consider
Maslow's hierarchy of needs for a moment, we know that the primary tier
(03:01):
requires that shelter be in place in order to experience just physiological
fullness first, the domino effect thereafter is that we have the potential
to feel satisfaction and security if the following needs on that hierarchy
are met. So when it comes to the
(03:25):
issue of violence prevention, violence prevention are all the intentional
steps and actions that can be taken proactively
to contribute to our intrinsic and external needs being met.
Just to spotlight for a moment the honor I had
(03:48):
of being part of a team that founded
and created the practice and execution of a very small idea,
which happened to be quite large, of creating a safe house and transitional
(04:10):
living program for female identified survivors of domestic violence and/or
sexual assault. They also happen to be living with HIV or Aids.
And so you see all these complexities, all these intersecting identities,
these various factors that directly and profoundly impact the trajectory
(04:35):
of their lives. And so when I think about my experience as a
director of that program, and truly being in
the trenches with my survivors, just kind of
fumbling through their everyday lives, being empowered already,
(04:56):
and recognizing their power all over again, I think about
how all the different factors that were a part of them getting there,
arriving there, how those things need to be
looked at very carefully, how they need to be considered with curiosity.
(05:21):
And so violence prevention promotes exactly that. It recognizes that should
housing security and stability be threatened, the very option to feel different
types of safety, we know there's not just one,
to feel secure in order to make deliberate and purposeful decisions,
(05:46):
to not feel the sting of threat, that our whole world as we
know it can be taken away. And that our global beliefs,
the way we perceive the world, others, our connection to folks,
our sense of safety, these things can all drastically change in any one
(06:07):
given moment. Violence prevention recognizes that. Violence itself
threatens our intrinsic experience of security and safety, and can also
have a profound impact on the lenses through which we see the world
and navigate it. Violence prevention and housing then, it just goes hand
(06:29):
in hand. Totally agree. Can you share more about what wisdom exists inside
your community to keep people safe and housed? I think at a very
basic level, safe housing is the foundation to positive medical, behavioral,
(06:53):
financial, overall social determinants of health, consider the effect of
systems on our lives, on our trajectories. Social determinants of health
are the conditions in the environments where we all are born,
live, learn, work, play, worship, and age. That affect the wide range of
(07:19):
health, our overall functioning, our quality of life,
the risks we take, the outcomes we experience.
So when considering social determinants of health, we have to recognize
safe housing is a part of that. Transportation, the composition of our neighborhoods,
(07:44):
the experience of racism, discrimination, violence, education, access to
job opportunities, income, access to nutritious foods, physical activity
opportunities. All of these things have a direct effect
(08:04):
on the outcomes in our everyday lives. Through my work in the HIV,
domestic violence, sexual assault field, we know that one study found
that young African American women from economically disadvantaged neighborhoods
who reported a lack of food at home, homelessness,
(08:26):
and low perceived education and employment prospects had
anywhere from 2.2 4.7 times higher odds of contracting a chronic illness
like HIV than those without these risk factors.
So right there in that snapshot alone, we see how any given combination
(08:49):
of factors can affect the likelihood of something occurring in our lives.
Violence increases the statistic exponentially for homeless and unstably
housed people living with HIV, we found that
(09:09):
the receipt of stable housing reduced higher risk behaviors,
it improved access to care, it increased adherence to medication regimens
among people who received intervention compared with those who did not.
So that's just a snapshot through the lens that I've had the privilege
(09:31):
of looking through and working with these populations who are extremely
marginalized and how housing and violence can directly impact those folks.
Thank you so much, Mel. As you're sharing
your experience and you're talking about these factors, it brings up for
(09:52):
me the fact that there's this dominant story about housing, right?
One that says housing is earned and blames individuals for experiencing
homelessness. And I think we're all trying to have bigger imaginations and
think expansively about housing and sexual violence, in our story. And I
think you and I met in a work group looking at creating access
(10:15):
for survivors of sexual violence to transitional housing. And we talked
about in our work group, where you helped co write a document we
put together, and one of the things that we said in the document
was, housing is a basic human right. Right? And so,
in our story, housing is a basic human right.
What is the story about housing that you tell through your work?
(10:42):
This question has so much bandwidth... To just
really consider. And I'm excited to just kind of wrestle
with it, with you here, so... And I have to say,
we've been told by the folks who are recording this that
(11:04):
we should pause and let one another speak. And Mel and I were saying
that might be difficult. So, this is our first foray into,
how do we talk about this? So what is the story about housing
that we tell through our work? What is this, I mean, like, 'cause
I feel like there's a story we want to tell. There's the story
we're forced to tell by limitations around funding and eligibility for things.
(11:27):
There's the story that survivors want us to tell, that survivors tell us.
Does any of that kind of spark anything for you?
Their everyday life, is not simply allocated to every human being equitably.
And so I have to say that again,
access to, and the privilege of secure and affordable housing is not simply
(11:53):
allocated to every human being equitably. Let's consider this very fact.
We see red tape and zoning practices in neighborhoods that were once considered
undesirable or promoted as unsafe. So folks would not consider creating
domicile there to now all of a sudden making these neighborhoods entirely
(12:17):
inaccessible due to exorbitant costs of rent, to
making it nothing but inaccessible, to essentially sever
the room for folks to hope and reach
and plan. This begs attention to the reality that not all persons have
(12:44):
access to the same resources, and consequently, all of the ways they navigate
everyday life and their access to knowledge that could catapult them into
positive health outcomes, into a sense of autonomy and self efficacy
is stinted. Housing is an undeniable human right.
(13:10):
And, it is absolute that we are cognizant of how oppressions are perpetuated
and promoted systemically, that a lack of safe and stable housing
is essentially an act of violence itself. Exactly. I mean, it
reminds me of kind of like, I remember as an advocate,
(13:33):
my boss, and then the first thing she handed me was,
one of the first things she handed me was Paulo Freire's book
on, Pedagogy of the Oppressed. And one of the lines that I took
from that was like, any act that denies a human being the right
to ask questions about their life, to answer those questions, this is not
the exact quote, right? The quote is much shorter, but the meaning of
(13:55):
the quote for me was like, anything that says a person can't kind of imagine
the world and recreate the world to meet their needs in community is
an act of violence. And I hear you saying that through the kind
of dominant narrative about what housing should be and who should have access
to it. But I think what the narrative should actually be,
(14:19):
which is it's a basic human right. And allowing people to define what
that looks like for themselves and community, is I think one of the
first steps in healing from violence. 100%. 100%.
And, it even begs us to think about healing,
(14:43):
in a multifaceted way. Working with survivors, we know that healing is very
much self led. Right? It stems from a place of
ebbs and flows and readiness. It is rooted in
(15:07):
just the practice of being gentle and giving room,
reminding someone that they have the right to make decisions.
And so to your point about the ability to imagine,
to your point about housing, however that's conceptualized and it's relationship
(15:31):
to healing, there's a direct relationship there. Well, and I appreciate
you bringing up that point, because I think so often when,
I've seen this happen where people make the case that if we can
get, if people have housing, we can prevent maybe further violence in their
life, right? Or further bad things happening in their life.
(15:53):
And then when people have housing and violence occurs again
or they're not healing in the ways that the dominant narrative says people
should heal, which is like, you get housing, you're safe, nothing bad ever
happens again, I think funders sometimes and policy makers wanna back away
(16:13):
from supporting healing as defined by survivors themselves once they get
housing. And that can look, and you were just talking about that,
that can look totally different for different survivors.
So I just appreciate you mentioning that. Yeah. It's, well,
when policymakers and folks in power are asked to take a closer look
(16:38):
at this, suggesting healing would also suggest that a system is broken.
And we know how difficult it can be. When a mirror is held
up to us at any given time, we as humans,
it can be challenging to really look at what we're confronted with.
(17:03):
What issues and movements do you see as being interconnected to housing
and violence prevention work? So many, so many, this is not at all
exhaustive, but I think the movement that promotes domestic violence
and sexual assault equals homelessness. That idea draws
(17:31):
a bridge to the very fact that these things threaten
stability and safety. Right? The Me Too Movement, Tarana Burke began
her work just really spotlighting sexual assault, sexual violence,
(17:55):
from a policy standpoint, the Violence Against Women Act,
options like victims of crime compensation, the Fair and Equal Housing Act,
and its protections of LGBTQ identified persons. We know that
queer identified folks, or LGBTQ folks are impacted by violence every single
(18:18):
day, whether on a small scale like a microaggression or
policies and systems that flat out say you don't belong.
All of these and more are interconnected to housing and violence prevention
work. So, there's another piece of this that I'd like to discuss with
(18:38):
you, Mel, which is kind of in the mainstream anti violence field,
shelter has been seen as a key component of kind of core services
and involves connecting with the survivor around their needs after the violence
has happened. However, we know that accessible, affordable, and safe housing
(18:59):
is an important part of building communities free from violence.
Despite what we know about risks and protective factors and social determinants
of health, the mainstream field has prioritized other services.
In your opinion, what will it take to build the political will to
incorporate housing work as prevention work? This is such a weighted question,
(19:28):
and I think it's completely possible to tackle.
Even if things can appear to us like
the tallest mountain to climb, it is possible. And so
my response to this is just intentional and deliberate leaning
(19:52):
into discomfort and having challenging and necessary conversations about
how systems perpetuate violence and oppression. You and I are virtually
holding space and sharing space for one another right now.
(20:16):
And I think that if folks come from a place of curiosity,
much like you and I are doing in this moment,
things are very possible. To consider social determinants of health in every
policy, in various environments like corporate America, the education system,
(20:43):
the legal system, every system that affects human life, both directly and
indirectly, it's an absolute must. A whole cultural shift, right? Easier
said than done, but it does begin with that intentional leaning
(21:06):
in, it's required and it must be demanded
through uplifting the voices of survivors of violence,
really understanding their stories, their intersecting identities that comprise
and write their narratives. We have to come from a place of humility.
(21:34):
A humble witnessing of just the human condition through dialogue, connection,
and consideration with curiosity is what it will take.
These things we do in our everyday lives, they're accessible.
The things that I'm mentioning, and through this I think we can accept
(22:00):
and normalize that education is prevention as well. We can normalize that
these types of conversations can be a part
of everyday connection. It can be a part
of educating our young people, those generations to come
(22:24):
behind us about their responsibility to consider the plight, the challenges
of others, what other folks are going through.
And of course, this is the clinician in me and the survivor in
me talking, empathy, humility, creating and carving out room
(22:53):
for folks to have very valuable conversations and to hear
from those that violence touches has to be a part of that leaning
in. And a follow up on this issue,
do you feel like, 'cause the question I posed was kind of like,
(23:16):
how do we support people around their housing and healing, their housing
needs and healing needs before violence happens, that assumes that violence
isn't always kind of happening, that we're not born into kind of a
violent world. But a corollary to that question is this issue of that
it can oftentimes be really hard to get support around your housing
(23:39):
unless you are actually literally homeless on the street, right? So like,
so, could you talk a little bit about that, like your experience around
that? Like, what does that mean for people, that like, someone is not
literally like... Living on the streets are a place not meant for human
habitation. Maybe they're doubled up. And... Or they're living in a place
(24:02):
where it's very triggering for them. Maybe they're not experiencing violence
in that place, but something about the place is triggering of past violence.
Just talk a little bit about what you think about that.
What you think needs to be changed around that.
Absolutely. The cultural shift that I'm promoting, it can begin
(24:27):
with the acceptance that trauma is a part of everyday life.
And there has to be a normalization of that.
And when folks think about trauma, they think about these
really devastating, you know, using ableist language, debilitating
(24:58):
occurrence in someone's life, thinking about trauma. Let's talk about 9/11
and how that directly impacted housing. That's a very observable, traumatic
experience. But we also have to consider that trauma can be the passing
(25:22):
of a loved one. What if that loved one is your primary provider
and caregiver? Who holds down the house, who directly contributes to
food being present in the home, the bills being paid so that you
can continue domicile there, right? Trauma is a part of everyday life.
(25:48):
And I think the more that we recognize this as an everyday human
being rather than just talking about trauma in clinical spaces,
in population health spaces, the more we normalize these things, the more
our eyes can really open to witness the fact that folks are dealing
(26:16):
with violence and potentially trauma all the time.
And that they may need support around housing.
They may need financial assistance around housing before they're literally
homeless. And they may need that for a long time, or they may
need that for a short amount of time, but that's going to depend
on the person. That's right. That's right. And now we're talking about
(26:43):
persons having the the wherewithal, the know how, the access to
asking for support. These are really complicated ways of being, right?
And it just goes back again to those social determinants of health that
we were both talking about earlier. People doing what they know.
(27:07):
You don't know what you know, all those phrases that we just kind
of in passing exchange with one another. There is value
to those though. And your spotlight on services being provided after violence
(27:31):
has already happened, it goes back to why violence prevention
has to be looked upon with very careful considerations about how folks are
experiencing trauma, how violence is actually defined, right? And so it's
(27:54):
going to take a lot of folks at the proverbial table,
folks from differing, similar intersecting identities to just come and speak
to what they've experienced around housing. What does that mean
(28:16):
for folks, right? Yeah. Anything else you want to share? I thank you
so much for talking today about housing and sexual violence prevention.
You know, this work is not intended to be easy, right? It's intended
(28:42):
to really demand quite a bit from all of us.
And it is gonna take just fervent approach.
It's going to take constant and ongoing conversations.
(29:08):
It's going to take connection, and folks have to feel safe enough to
do that, right? So when we think about violence prevention,
right away the word safety is tied to that.
And so I think it's just time, it's time that we really consider
(29:35):
what safety means as well, and not just consider it
from one particular lens or avenue. Thank you for having me,
Rebekah. Again, I'm just so humbled and privileged to be here.
Thank you so much, Mel. It was great to
(29:56):
hear from you, and connect on this super important issue.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Resource on the Go.
For more resources and information about preventing sexual assault, visit
our website at nsvrc.org. You can also get in touch with us by
emailing resources@nsvrc respecttogether.org.
Welcome to Resource on the Go, a podcast from the National Sexual Violence
Resource Center, an understanding, responding to, and preventing sexual
abuse and assault. I'm Louie Marven, and I'm a project coordinator at the
NSVRC. Today's episode is part of a series on housing for prevention that
we co created with the National Resource Center on Domestic Violence.
(00:20):
Our organizations collaborate on an initiative that supports advocates in
meeting the housing needs of survivors. And in reflecting on that work together,
we became eager to talk about the ways that housing is also a
tool for preventing violence. Today you're going to hear Rebekah Moses with
GBV Consulting interview clinician activist, queer survivor, Mel Pasignajen.
(01:01):
Hello everyone, and welcome to a podcast in NSVRC series on housing and
sexual violence prevention. My name is Rebekah Moses, pronouns she and eir.
I'm with GBV Consulting and I have the distinct honor and pleasure to
be joined by Mel, whose pronouns are she/they. Mel is a brown,
(01:26):
Latinx, Filipinx queer activist, survivor and clinician who has aspired
to be in the trenches of serving in uplifting communities in need since
they were a young person in school. Being first generation US born,
Mel's passion for social justice equity and recreating systems that are
affirming and inclusive of intersecting identities stems from their own
(01:52):
family's narrative of navigating various systems as immigrants and as a
person reclaiming space and promoting healing. They're currently pursuing
a PhD in gender and sexual fluidity while working as a clinical director
of a co occurring mental health and substance use community clinic.
Welcome, Mel. Thank you so much. It's truly an honor and a privilege
(02:16):
to be here. So let's chat about housing and sexual violence prevention.
Mel, for you, what is the connection between violence prevention and housing?
Such a valuable question. The question, right? So the very presence of housing
(02:39):
provides both an intrinsic and external level of safety, stability,
and subsequently a potential for an individual or persons to set out on
a positive trajectory. Right? If we were to consider
Maslow's hierarchy of needs for a moment, we know that the primary tier
(03:01):
requires that shelter be in place in order to experience just physiological
fullness first, the domino effect thereafter is that we have the potential
to feel satisfaction and security if the following needs on that hierarchy
are met. So when it comes to the
(03:25):
issue of violence prevention, violence prevention are all the intentional
steps and actions that can be taken proactively
to contribute to our intrinsic and external needs being met.
Just to spotlight for a moment the honor I had
(03:48):
of being part of a team that founded
and created the practice and execution of a very small idea,
which happened to be quite large, of creating a safe house and transitional
(04:10):
living program for female identified survivors of domestic violence and/or
sexual assault. They also happen to be living with HIV or Aids.
And so you see all these complexities, all these intersecting identities,
these various factors that directly and profoundly impact the trajectory
(04:35):
of their lives. And so when I think about my experience as a
director of that program, and truly being in
the trenches with my survivors, just kind of
fumbling through their everyday lives, being empowered already,
(04:56):
and recognizing their power all over again, I think about
how all the different factors that were a part of them getting there,
arriving there, how those things need to be
looked at very carefully, how they need to be considered with curiosity.
(05:21):
And so violence prevention promotes exactly that. It recognizes that should
housing security and stability be threatened, the very option to feel different
types of safety, we know there's not just one,
to feel secure in order to make deliberate and purposeful decisions,
(05:46):
to not feel the sting of threat, that our whole world as we
know it can be taken away. And that our global beliefs,
the way we perceive the world, others, our connection to folks,
our sense of safety, these things can all drastically change in any one
(06:07):
given moment. Violence prevention recognizes that. Violence itself
threatens our intrinsic experience of security and safety, and can also
have a profound impact on the lenses through which we see the world
and navigate it. Violence prevention and housing then, it just goes hand
(06:29):
in hand. Totally agree. Can you share more about what wisdom exists inside
your community to keep people safe and housed? I think at a very
basic level, safe housing is the foundation to positive medical, behavioral,
(06:53):
financial, overall social determinants of health, consider the effect of
systems on our lives, on our trajectories. Social determinants of health
are the conditions in the environments where we all are born,
live, learn, work, play, worship, and age. That affect the wide range of
(07:19):
health, our overall functioning, our quality of life,
the risks we take, the outcomes we experience.
So when considering social determinants of health, we have to recognize
safe housing is a part of that. Transportation, the composition of our neighborhoods,
(07:44):
the experience of racism, discrimination, violence, education, access to
job opportunities, income, access to nutritious foods, physical activity
opportunities. All of these things have a direct effect
(08:04):
on the outcomes in our everyday lives. Through my work in the HIV,
domestic violence, sexual assault field, we know that one study found
that young African American women from economically disadvantaged neighborhoods
who reported a lack of food at home, homelessness,
(08:26):
and low perceived education and employment prospects had
anywhere from 2.2 4.7 times higher odds of contracting a chronic illness
like HIV than those without these risk factors.
So right there in that snapshot alone, we see how any given combination
(08:49):
of factors can affect the likelihood of something occurring in our lives.
Violence increases the statistic exponentially for homeless and unstably
housed people living with HIV, we found that
(09:09):
the receipt of stable housing reduced higher risk behaviors,
it improved access to care, it increased adherence to medication regimens
among people who received intervention compared with those who did not.
So that's just a snapshot through the lens that I've had the privilege
(09:31):
of looking through and working with these populations who are extremely
marginalized and how housing and violence can directly impact those folks.
Thank you so much, Mel. As you're sharing
your experience and you're talking about these factors, it brings up for
(09:52):
me the fact that there's this dominant story about housing, right?
One that says housing is earned and blames individuals for experiencing
homelessness. And I think we're all trying to have bigger imaginations and
think expansively about housing and sexual violence, in our story. And I
think you and I met in a work group looking at creating access
(10:15):
for survivors of sexual violence to transitional housing. And we talked
about in our work group, where you helped co write a document we
put together, and one of the things that we said in the document
was, housing is a basic human right. Right? And so,
in our story, housing is a basic human right.
What is the story about housing that you tell through your work?
(10:42):
This question has so much bandwidth... To just
really consider. And I'm excited to just kind of wrestle
with it, with you here, so... And I have to say,
we've been told by the folks who are recording this that
(11:04):
we should pause and let one another speak. And Mel and I were saying
that might be difficult. So, this is our first foray into,
how do we talk about this? So what is the story about housing
that we tell through our work? What is this, I mean, like, 'cause
I feel like there's a story we want to tell. There's the story
we're forced to tell by limitations around funding and eligibility for things.
(11:27):
There's the story that survivors want us to tell, that survivors tell us.
Does any of that kind of spark anything for you?
Their everyday life, is not simply allocated to every human being equitably.
And so I have to say that again,
access to, and the privilege of secure and affordable housing is not simply
(11:53):
allocated to every human being equitably. Let's consider this very fact.
We see red tape and zoning practices in neighborhoods that were once considered
undesirable or promoted as unsafe. So folks would not consider creating
domicile there to now all of a sudden making these neighborhoods entirely
(12:17):
inaccessible due to exorbitant costs of rent, to
making it nothing but inaccessible, to essentially sever
the room for folks to hope and reach
and plan. This begs attention to the reality that not all persons have
(12:44):
access to the same resources, and consequently, all of the ways they navigate
everyday life and their access to knowledge that could catapult them into
positive health outcomes, into a sense of autonomy and self efficacy
is stinted. Housing is an undeniable human right.
(13:10):
And, it is absolute that we are cognizant of how oppressions are perpetuated
and promoted systemically, that a lack of safe and stable housing
is essentially an act of violence itself. Exactly. I mean, it
reminds me of kind of like, I remember as an advocate,
(13:33):
my boss, and then the first thing she handed me was,
one of the first things she handed me was Paulo Freire's book
on, Pedagogy of the Oppressed. And one of the lines that I took
from that was like, any act that denies a human being the right
to ask questions about their life, to answer those questions, this is not
the exact quote, right? The quote is much shorter, but the meaning of
(13:55):
the quote for me was like, anything that says a person can't kind of imagine
the world and recreate the world to meet their needs in community is
an act of violence. And I hear you saying that through the kind
of dominant narrative about what housing should be and who should have access
to it. But I think what the narrative should actually be,
(14:19):
which is it's a basic human right. And allowing people to define what
that looks like for themselves and community, is I think one of the
first steps in healing from violence. 100%. 100%.
And, it even begs us to think about healing,
(14:43):
in a multifaceted way. Working with survivors, we know that healing is very
much self led. Right? It stems from a place of
ebbs and flows and readiness. It is rooted in
(15:07):
just the practice of being gentle and giving room,
reminding someone that they have the right to make decisions.
And so to your point about the ability to imagine,
to your point about housing, however that's conceptualized and it's relationship
(15:31):
to healing, there's a direct relationship there. Well, and I appreciate
you bringing up that point, because I think so often when,
I've seen this happen where people make the case that if we can
get, if people have housing, we can prevent maybe further violence in their
life, right? Or further bad things happening in their life.
(15:53):
And then when people have housing and violence occurs again
or they're not healing in the ways that the dominant narrative says people
should heal, which is like, you get housing, you're safe, nothing bad ever
happens again, I think funders sometimes and policy makers wanna back away
(16:13):
from supporting healing as defined by survivors themselves once they get
housing. And that can look, and you were just talking about that,
that can look totally different for different survivors.
So I just appreciate you mentioning that. Yeah. It's, well,
when policymakers and folks in power are asked to take a closer look
(16:38):
at this, suggesting healing would also suggest that a system is broken.
And we know how difficult it can be. When a mirror is held
up to us at any given time, we as humans,
it can be challenging to really look at what we're confronted with.
(17:03):
What issues and movements do you see as being interconnected to housing
and violence prevention work? So many, so many, this is not at all
exhaustive, but I think the movement that promotes domestic violence
and sexual assault equals homelessness. That idea draws
(17:31):
a bridge to the very fact that these things threaten
stability and safety. Right? The Me Too Movement, Tarana Burke began
her work just really spotlighting sexual assault, sexual violence,
(17:55):
from a policy standpoint, the Violence Against Women Act,
options like victims of crime compensation, the Fair and Equal Housing Act,
and its protections of LGBTQ identified persons. We know that
queer identified folks, or LGBTQ folks are impacted by violence every single
(18:18):
day, whether on a small scale like a microaggression or
policies and systems that flat out say you don't belong.
All of these and more are interconnected to housing and violence prevention
work. So, there's another piece of this that I'd like to discuss with
(18:38):
you, Mel, which is kind of in the mainstream anti violence field,
shelter has been seen as a key component of kind of core services
and involves connecting with the survivor around their needs after the violence
has happened. However, we know that accessible, affordable, and safe housing
(18:59):
is an important part of building communities free from violence.
Despite what we know about risks and protective factors and social determinants
of health, the mainstream field has prioritized other services.
In your opinion, what will it take to build the political will to
incorporate housing work as prevention work? This is such a weighted question,
(19:28):
and I think it's completely possible to tackle.
Even if things can appear to us like
the tallest mountain to climb, it is possible. And so
my response to this is just intentional and deliberate leaning
(19:52):
into discomfort and having challenging and necessary conversations about
how systems perpetuate violence and oppression. You and I are virtually
holding space and sharing space for one another right now.
(20:16):
And I think that if folks come from a place of curiosity,
much like you and I are doing in this moment,
things are very possible. To consider social determinants of health in every
policy, in various environments like corporate America, the education system,
(20:43):
the legal system, every system that affects human life, both directly and
indirectly, it's an absolute must. A whole cultural shift, right? Easier
said than done, but it does begin with that intentional leaning
(21:06):
in, it's required and it must be demanded
through uplifting the voices of survivors of violence,
really understanding their stories, their intersecting identities that comprise
and write their narratives. We have to come from a place of humility.
(21:34):
A humble witnessing of just the human condition through dialogue, connection,
and consideration with curiosity is what it will take.
These things we do in our everyday lives, they're accessible.
The things that I'm mentioning, and through this I think we can accept
(22:00):
and normalize that education is prevention as well. We can normalize that
these types of conversations can be a part
of everyday connection. It can be a part
of educating our young people, those generations to come
(22:24):
behind us about their responsibility to consider the plight, the challenges
of others, what other folks are going through.
And of course, this is the clinician in me and the survivor in
me talking, empathy, humility, creating and carving out room
(22:53):
for folks to have very valuable conversations and to hear
from those that violence touches has to be a part of that leaning
in. And a follow up on this issue,
do you feel like, 'cause the question I posed was kind of like,
(23:16):
how do we support people around their housing and healing, their housing
needs and healing needs before violence happens, that assumes that violence
isn't always kind of happening, that we're not born into kind of a
violent world. But a corollary to that question is this issue of that
it can oftentimes be really hard to get support around your housing
(23:39):
unless you are actually literally homeless on the street, right? So like,
so, could you talk a little bit about that, like your experience around
that? Like, what does that mean for people, that like, someone is not
literally like... Living on the streets are a place not meant for human
habitation. Maybe they're doubled up. And... Or they're living in a place
(24:02):
where it's very triggering for them. Maybe they're not experiencing violence
in that place, but something about the place is triggering of past violence.
Just talk a little bit about what you think about that.
What you think needs to be changed around that.
Absolutely. The cultural shift that I'm promoting, it can begin
(24:27):
with the acceptance that trauma is a part of everyday life.
And there has to be a normalization of that.
And when folks think about trauma, they think about these
really devastating, you know, using ableist language, debilitating
(24:58):
occurrence in someone's life, thinking about trauma. Let's talk about 9/11
and how that directly impacted housing. That's a very observable, traumatic
experience. But we also have to consider that trauma can be the passing
(25:22):
of a loved one. What if that loved one is your primary provider
and caregiver? Who holds down the house, who directly contributes to
food being present in the home, the bills being paid so that you
can continue domicile there, right? Trauma is a part of everyday life.
(25:48):
And I think the more that we recognize this as an everyday human
being rather than just talking about trauma in clinical spaces,
in population health spaces, the more we normalize these things, the more
our eyes can really open to witness the fact that folks are dealing
(26:16):
with violence and potentially trauma all the time.
And that they may need support around housing.
They may need financial assistance around housing before they're literally
homeless. And they may need that for a long time, or they may
need that for a short amount of time, but that's going to depend
on the person. That's right. That's right. And now we're talking about
(26:43):
persons having the the wherewithal, the know how, the access to
asking for support. These are really complicated ways of being, right?
And it just goes back again to those social determinants of health that
we were both talking about earlier. People doing what they know.
(27:07):
You don't know what you know, all those phrases that we just kind
of in passing exchange with one another. There is value
to those though. And your spotlight on services being provided after violence
(27:31):
has already happened, it goes back to why violence prevention
has to be looked upon with very careful considerations about how folks are
experiencing trauma, how violence is actually defined, right? And so it's
(27:54):
going to take a lot of folks at the proverbial table,
folks from differing, similar intersecting identities to just come and speak
to what they've experienced around housing. What does that mean
(28:16):
for folks, right? Yeah. Anything else you want to share? I thank you
so much for talking today about housing and sexual violence prevention.
You know, this work is not intended to be easy, right? It's intended
(28:42):
to really demand quite a bit from all of us.
And it is gonna take just fervent approach.
It's going to take constant and ongoing conversations.
(29:08):
It's going to take connection, and folks have to feel safe enough to
do that, right? So when we think about violence prevention,
right away the word safety is tied to that.
And so I think it's just time, it's time that we really consider
(29:35):
what safety means as well, and not just consider it
from one particular lens or avenue. Thank you for having me,
Rebekah. Again, I'm just so humbled and privileged to be here.
Thank you so much, Mel. It was great to
(29:56):
hear from you, and connect on this super important issue.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Resource on the Go.
For more resources and information about preventing sexual assault, visit
our website at nsvrc.org. You can also get in touch with us by
emailing resources@nsvrc respecttogether.org.
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