Drumming, Travel, and Deep Thoughts - Brian Pott's Perspective - Respecting Perspectives

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
all right.
Hey, you are here with therespecting perspectives podcast
and, uh, thank you for joiningus.
I have Brian Potts here, who isthe owner of HCD Studios.
He is a musician, aphotographer, a world traveler

(00:36):
Gosh man, you know.
Tell me a little bit aboutyourself.
Give me a little bit about howyou ended up in the seat here
give me a little bit about howyou ended up in the seat here.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Oh well, I guess it's been quite a journey.
I'm a native Marylander.
I grew up in betweenCatonsville and then mostly out
in Howard County, and I've justbeen a passionate creative.
You know, my entire life I'vealways been an artist in some
form or another.
You know, I can remember beinga little kid and learn how to
draw and paint and always lovecameras and.

(01:14):
But drums was, you know, drumswas always my, my, main thing
once you know, I had anexperience when I was four years
old, played drums at my aunt'swedding.
So that was.
I guess you know my first gig,so to speak, right, but yeah,
just like getting up on stageand I remember not being able to

(01:35):
reach the kick drum pedal andjust kind of like hitting
everything with the sticks andjust really feeling it.
And then a couple otherexperiences, you know and.
And then, you know, when I was10 years old I started playing
drums and just never looked back.
So you know, I mean, we metthrough music and a lot of

(01:58):
things in my life have happenedthrough music.
So, you know, I would say, Iwould say music is really why
I'm here in this seat.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I love that man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So wait you.
So you, the first time you'veever played, played a drum.
The drums was when you werefour years old man.
Tell me what that.
Tell me what that was like.
What type of like feelings didyou get when, when you, you know
, when, you were in that seat?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Well, I can tell you, I have a picture of that, of me
on the drum set and it's nextto my bed, something I look at
every day, nice, and I justremember, um, I just remember it
being just this incrediblefeeling, you know, uh, that like
an.
I didn't understand it at thetime, obviously, I was four
years old, I barely knew what Iwas doing, but I just remember

(02:51):
it being like the coolest thingthat you know.
I would hit, you know, thisthing here and it sounded one
way and this other thing overhere sounded, you know, like
crash, you know boom, you knowand like, and I just remember
just feeling like thisconnection that I couldn't
describe.
Yeah, you know, later, yearslater, I heard somebody tell me

(03:15):
a story, you know a paraphrase,but like there were two African
drummers a couple of miles apartand one guy started playing a
rhythm and the other guy heardhim, and then, when he stopped,
the other guy started playing,and so they kind of like, you
know, kind of like what we calltrading for is almost right.
They're playing back and forth,and so they decided that they

(03:39):
would seek each other out.
And um, the one guy said hesaid, he said what were you
saying?
And he said I hear you, brother, but I can't understand what
you're saying.
You know, and it's.
It's just like I badlyparaphrased that story, but it's
just a story about, um, likethe language of music and how it
connects people you know, man,I love that dude.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I feel like music is universal and really there's
times where I don't understandthe actual lyrics themselves,
but there is a lot ofappreciation for language itself
, you know, and being able tolearn it and music has really

(04:31):
helped shape my life and soundslike yours as well, and a lot of
the people around us, you know,to be able to help us
communicate with each other.
You know it's a beautiful thingcommunicate with each other.
You know it's it's it's abeautiful thing.
Tell me a little bit about yourmusical background.
You know a little bit post the,the four-year-old and

(04:52):
10-year-old stories there.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Well, an interesting story that I often tell younger
drummers is so my mom wasnoticeably displeased when I
came home and told her, when Iwas in middle school, that I
joined the band.
And she said well, whatinstrument are you gonna play?
And I said the drums.
And I don't think my parentsreally knew what to expect at

(05:17):
that point.
Right, and I said I'm gonnaplay the drums and I want you to
buy me a drum set.
And my parents, you know likethis is one thing I'm really
grateful for is that my parentsnever really gave me things like
of course, I mean of coursethey did, but but like the
things that they made me earnstuff is what I'm trying to say.

(05:40):
Yeah, you know, they made mework for things.
So this story goes me little.
Me, I want a drum set.
My mom and dad are like how oldwere you?
10 years old, okay, right.
My mom and dad are like no,we're not buying you a drum set,
but we'll make you a deal.
If you keep playing all throughmiddle school until you get to
high school, then we'll buy youa drum set.

(06:00):
Oh nice, I was like okay, sothat gave me like the
determination, right?
So my dad was a carpenter, soyou know, uh, he's retired now
but he still builds things allthe time.
I'm also a carpenter is one ofthe things that I do and enjoy
and I have loved to build stuffever since I was a little kid.

(06:22):
You know mostly hammered mythumbs for a long time, but
eventually I figured it out.
You know lots of splinters andwhatnot.
So, undeterred, stubborn megoes to my dad's wood shop and I
built my own drum pad set at 10years old and I glued pieces of

(06:42):
rubber onto MDF and I builtstands out of two by fours and I
put supports on the bottom andI built a bass drum pedal with a
little spring in it so it wouldactually go up and down like a
pedal.
And I mean, this thing wasserious.
I wish I still had it Right.
Um, and then I took old signs,my dad's old advertising signs

(07:06):
that were pieces of sheet metaland I cut circles out of them
and I drilled a hole in themiddle and I put pop rivets in
them and I made symbols.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
How did you know to build things in this way?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I don't think I really did know.
I don't think I really did know.
I mean, I had the basic skills,but I was totally designing it
as I went along, of course, youknow.
I'm very much an autodidact ohwhat is that?
So an autodidact is someone,basically someone who can teach
themselves or can easily learnthings on their own.

(07:49):
Okay, so I had had plenty ofexperience of like using tools
and things like that not powertools at that point, at least,
not without my dad's help, ofcourse but I was a very, and
always have been like a veryhands-on, creative kind of
person.
So I just thought, hey look, Igotta build something to hold it

(08:12):
up and I gotta build somethingto hit on the top.
And I knew that rubber cementwould, would hold the rubber or
the, the rubber to the to thewood.
So, you know, and like I don'teven honestly, I don't even
remember if I even gotpermission you probably did I

(08:34):
just went, you know, I mean we,you know it was like a big, huge
wood shop with all the toolsand lots of material, and so I
just grabbed some things and putit all together and put it in
the.
You know, we had a like anupstairs family room in between
my sister and i's room and, um,the rest, as they say, is

(08:57):
history, right?
Oh man, that's, that's so coolyeah, uh, were you able to?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
um, how long did you have that set?
Um, you know before what?
You were then able to get yourown drum set.
You were able to fulfill themission there yep, yep, it was.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
It was motivating enough for me to to stick with
it.
Um, I joined.
Well, I played in all the bands, like all the bands that that
they offered Okay At school andwhatnot, yeah at school and took
a few private lessons.
A lot of what I learned Ilearned by listening and playing

(09:35):
, along with things which lateron led me to you know, it
contributed to my abilities as asession drummer, where I could
listen to a piece of music,maybe a couple times, two or
three times, and then basicallygo in and play it off the top of
my head.

(09:55):
Wow, that's impressive and yeah,I mean it was something that
took a long time to develop.
But it's something that I'mproud to be able to do.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I think that takes a specialability to be able to just um
hear something and, uh, you know, turn it into something.
I guess that's that's what allmusic is and that's where that
kind of creativity aspect, uh,of an artist, you know um comes
into play.

(10:23):
Um a little bit more, though,about the music, where, would
you say, you kind of went withthat kind of leading up to what
you're doing now with that?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, I started playing in bands, like my own
bands, pretty soon after I got adrum set a few years later.
Um, I remember being in middleschool and just like wanting to
play like this one syncopatedbeat and just and just like

(10:58):
working at it so hard on amission.
And and now I I mean like now,like for me, now, like playing
drums is like walking, like Idon't think about it, it just
comes out right, like they say,you know, 10,000 hours or
whatever.
You know, I probably spend a lotmore than 10,000 hours, for
sure, right, but yeah, I just,you know, like those experiences

(11:25):
of playing in bands led towanting to record our music and
back then we had, you know, likeeverybody says, oh, back then
we had four track tape machinesand we recorded on cassettes,
you know, and it's like, and forreal, I mean, that's what we
did, and we didn't even havefour microphones and I think we

(11:48):
might have had one mic stand andtwo microphones were just taped
on to something to get them offthe ground and hang them in the
air.
Somehow it was like guerrillarecording for sure.
Like guerrilla recording forsure, um, you know, but I mean,

(12:08):
eventually that led to me, youknow, recording in like real
studios with like real, you know, legit stuff and and a lot of
analog recording recording totape and ADATs and stuff like
that.
And then, um, at a certainpoint I had a partnership with
two people that I played musicwith and we all had a studio
together so we could likepre-produce and record.

(12:30):
And then I kind of went out onmy own after a while of that um
and started my own studio andstarted making different kinds
of records for people and tellthem about your studio drums.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
What's the name of it ?

Speaker 2 (12:50):
And it's still, it's still HCD studios.
I mean, I don't really rightnow I don't really do the same
kind of commercial work that Iused to do.
I do like live event productionOkay, but I um like live event
production okay.
Um, but I I still write musicand I have a killer recording

(13:10):
studio and like not to brag, butlike a really nice collection
of actual real, like vintageanalog gear and you know all the
fancy microphones and all thosethings and I build electronics,
um, so I've been able to builda lot of like the, a lot of the
things that you see in the majorlabel studios.
I'm able to build those samecircuits now.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, and I think something that to touch on with
that is right.
Being able to kind of put allthose things together, I think,
makes you a lot moreappreciative of the, the systems
that you have at yourfingertips, right?
Um, what are the advantages of,you know, being able to build

(13:55):
something yourself, rather thanjust like going to like guitar
center or sweet water to to buyit?

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Um, well it's.
It's led me for one to have areally cool job working at you
know a university and doing allthe repairs for the entire
university, for that department,um, but I would say I mean like
there's no two ways about it.

(14:21):
Having a recording studio isnot easy and it's not
inexpensive.
And now if you want to get a,you know, a two channel
interface and plug it into yourlaptop and and you get a set of
headphones and a couple ofmicrophones then, you could say,
okay, it's not that expensive.
But when you want to record aband, when you want to record

(14:41):
live drums, live instruments,and you know you got to have
enough microphones and enoughpreamps and enough compressors
and some equalizers, you know mybecause my recording philosophy
is like part of it wasinfluenced by by Dave Nachotsky,
who's a who's a very well-knownlocal engineer, um, but I
worked with him a lot and and soit's it's about really getting

(15:04):
the sound that you want going in.
It's about really getting theinstrument the way you know,
choosing the right instrument,like the right drums, or the
right guitar amp, or the rightbass guitar, you know, whatever,
getting it to sound the waythat you want you know, putting
the microphones, choosing theright kinds of microphones,
putting them in the right place.
I mean, it's all of these littledetails that add up and so,

(15:29):
anyway, so it's very expensiveto go out and buy that stuff
from like a guitar center orSweetwater or whatever, and
we're very fortunate nowadays,as anyone who's really involved
in audio knows nowadays asanyone who's really involved in
audio knows to be able to buykits and parts of these circuits

(15:50):
, these famous circuits.
I mean I've built Neve, api, ssl, millennia, neumann, akg.
I mean other things like that.
If you know audio, you knowwhat those names are.
You know, I just built mysecond yuri 1176 clone.
I built, uh, an ssl g buscompressor, you know, which is

(16:11):
like one of the really famoushow much would things like that
cost if you were to buy them?
uh, I think in a, I think, in1176.
A yuri right now is probably, Idon't know, twenty five hundred
dollars or something and howmuch can you, would you be able
to make it for?
I mean the kit, like parts wise,would be like less than you

(16:35):
know a little under like 700bucks, wow you know.
But then it's a probably a 14hour build, maybe plus
calibration.
So you got to have that's good.
You gotta have a tone generator.
You gotta have a certain kindof um multimeter.
You gotta have a really goodsoldering iron.
You gotta have a reasonabletool collection, not a lot of

(16:56):
stuff, but you know um you gottahave a place you can work, you
know, with some ventilations.
You don't, you know, driveyourself crazy inhaling solder
fumes.
Um, but but so for me, the thereal benefit was being able to
build things, also being able tofix things when they break um,
being able to make all my owncables, being able to wire all

(17:17):
my own patch bays, being able tooffer my services to other
studio owners.
That's a good point.
Um, you, um, you know I meanthis, this place that we're in
right now, the watermelon room,um, you know, you know a little
bit about the.
I know a little bit about thewatermelon room.
Why?

Speaker 1 (17:34):
don't you give us a little?
Give us a little uh history to.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, that was on, that was like I and I want to.
I want to say like thank youfor all the conversations
leading up to this.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Dude, yes, man.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
I'm super appreciative and I don't want to
be remiss if I don't thank MattGruby for being along
production-wise with you.
Thank you.
Matt and for everything he'sdoing.
I've known him for years,fellow drummer, fellow drummer
yeah, he's a really talenteddrummer, he's.
He's a.
I mean he's always been supernice to me and kind and like

(18:09):
we've always gotten along.
Um, and you know, and and shoutout to garrett long, I mean
garrett's um.
You know, garrett's the ownerhere of the watermelon room and
um, he was my my longest servingand best assistant and first

(18:30):
intern and then assistantengineer.
We worked together on I don'teven know how many records.
How long ago was this?
Like I don't know, 20 years orsomething I don't even know.
Man, like time, you know, it'slike I'd have to think about it.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Several of my studio iterations ago and he's been
with me through and he's done agreat job here and it makes me

(19:12):
proud to know that I was able tomentor him for a while and work
with him, and we learned somuch from each other.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
From each other, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Um, I think one of the best things that I learned
from having interns andassistants is is from the
questions that they asked methat I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
You know, forced you to learn more for yourself.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like you got to rise to the
occasion.
You know and and and like, andit reminds me to remain humble.
You know, there's like.
That's one thing I I've alwaysloved about drumming is like
you're never going to learn itall.
Right, you could.
I mean you could study jazzyour entire life.
You could study progressivemetal, you could.

(20:01):
You could.
You could drill down to likeone particular style of music
and study that your entire lifeand you're never going to learn
at all.
How cool is that?
it's, it's amazing I mean I willnever forget, um, when I, when
I was living in india, studyingclassical indian music, um, I

(20:21):
lived with my teacher and hisfamily oh, cool and um.
I will never forget the firsttime that I sat down that wasn't
, it was a lesson, but it itwasn't like any of our other
lessons had been.
And so we were sitting thereand we were playing music
together and I mean, I've beenplaying drums for, let's see, it

(20:46):
would have been 26 years, Iguess at that point, long time,
yeah, a long time and I feltlike nothing in my entire
musical career had prepared mefor this moment.
And why do you say that?
Because I felt like a completebeginner.
Oh, wow, I made just mistakeafter mistake after mistake, and

(21:06):
I'm not used to that.
I mean, of course I makemistakes, everybody makes
mistakes.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
yeah, um, but it was just like it was like wow
exactly yeah, yeah, tell me alittle bit more um with your,
your travels themselves, um, youknow how music has maybe led
you into that, or not even musicitself, but, um, I know, um,
with some of the conversationsthat we've had, that you have

(21:33):
been around the world.
You know, tell me some, and thelisteners some places that
you've been and, uh, some of thethings that you've learned in
those places.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Wow, it's really hard to put it into words.
I mean I've been very fortunate.
I've been to 29 countries onfive continents.
Yeah, I mean and I say thatlike, I say that with some

(22:09):
humility Like I realize howfortunate I am to have had these
experiences, you know Right,and I've done my best to share
those experiences with others.
That's one thing that sort oflike reignited my love of
photography.
Was all like doing travelphotography.
I was like let me share theseexperiences with people and then

(22:31):
I was like if I'm going toshare these experiences with
people, I better like go back tomy art fundamentals, my color
theory, my um, uh, you know,framing and and my composition
techniques, you know, and thestorytelling of how do you tell
a story with a photo, and but Imean, yeah, like so many, so

(22:55):
many experiences I've hadtraveling.
I think it's one of the thingsthat I recommend most, like when
I teach young people and when Imentor young people at the
university that I work at, it'ssomething that I recommend to
pretty much everybody, and Irecommend traveling alone.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, we just talked about that in the past episode
with Grayson and you know, yeah,it really depends on who you're
traveling with to be able tobring out that particular side
of you.
But why would you say travelalone?
What do you think the benefitsof that are?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Well, so to be clear, I'm not recommending always
traveling alone, mmm right, I'mnot recommending only traveling
alone, gotcha, but I'mrecommending traveling alone
with, with like intention, okay.
So to me there's, you know,there's like traveling, that's

(24:05):
like, there's like tourism andtraveling, okay.
Or like there's like going onvacation and then there's
traveling, oh, I like that.
So I mean, to me, a vacation is, you know, we, you know like we
go to the beach, right, or wego, you know, we like to go to
national parks.
Steph and I like to go tonational parks.

(24:25):
Steph and I like to go tonational parks and so that's a
vacation for me.
You know it's more relaxing,you're kind of just having fun
and things like that, whereaswhen I think of traveling, I
think of immersing yourself inanother culture, I think of

(24:46):
learning a little bit of thelanguage, if you can, at least
how to you know?
How do you count from one tofive?
You know ecto, ecto, teen char,pach, right, um, I can count to
five and I don't have anylanguages.
But quite quite a few, um, butjust, I mean those basic things.
You know, like how to say thankyou, you know in Hindi, you

(25:06):
know, so you say danyabad, youknow like saying like you say
danyabad to somebody and theirface lights up Right, because
they're like this person istrying, right, yeah.
But I think the reason that Irecommend traveling by yourself
is there's it's, it's just you,it's.
You walk out the door and oneof my favorite things to do is

(25:30):
just turn left or right, right,right, I don't have a plan.
You know, maybe I have a plan,Okay, maybe I want to go see
this thing today at whatevertime, you know.
But just walk out the door andyou turn left or right and the
adventure happens Right, andyou're not, you're reliant on

(25:51):
yourself, you're dependent onyourself.
It builds confidence.
It builds a sense of being ableto handle sort of like whatever
life is throwing at you, oflike whatever life is throwing
at you.
Um, my, you know my universityjob, we do, you know, I do

(26:12):
large-scale events and likebroadcast sports and things like
that.
So it can be very stressful andit can go from like a walk in
the park to like a total stressfest in a matter of like seconds
.
Sometimes you know when, whenwe're broadcasting out, you know
and and things like that.
So it's just being able to knowthat you know, as I like to say

(26:36):
, like the universe makes spacefor us, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
So what does that mean if dig, dig in a little?

Speaker 2 (26:43):
bit.
Um.
Well, let me let me come backto that, but let let me let me
just talk.
Just say a couple more thingsabout traveling.
Of course it's.
You know you, there there's aself-confidence that you gain.
There's, there's a it's.
It's like people have problemswith anxiety.
A lot of times, you know, andyour mind is sort of in the

(27:03):
future when it should be morepresent, of times, you know, and
your mind is sort of in thefuture when it should be more
present, and, and I think, a lotof times those thoughts can be
like thoughts of like I'm notgoing to be okay, right, but
when you're traveling and andyou're going through those
things and you're in places thatyou've never been and you meet
people and you deal withlanguage barriers and strange

(27:25):
foods and all of theseexperiences, Like it just builds
a level of self-confidence andlike centeredness that I haven't
found another thing that doesthat.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Man, that's crazy that you said that I never
really put that piece of thepuzzle together of the fact that
as you're traveling you're kindof coming across many different
challenges that maybe youhaven't been able to put
yourself in, and those hurdlesthemselves can really build

(28:04):
character.
So yeah, I love the way thatyou put that and I think it
takes a special type of personto be able to kind of open the
door.
And when I was a kid I wasalways, you know, up until a
certain age obviously, I wasalways scared to sleep over

(28:24):
friends' houses or this or that,but then, once I started to get
to see some things around theworld, it really did.
I.
Then it ignited some sort offire inside me to really want to
gosh.
It really allowed me to be inthe in the present time.

(28:49):
And not just that, but it thatlike sense of, of curiosity, you
know.
Um, I then got this it was, itwas almost like a drug.
It was like that feeling towhere, like, I can thrive, like
anywhere in in the world, youknow, and to be able to to

(29:10):
experience.
That is um, that's a gift man,so so thanks for for allowing me
to think about that.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, I mean that's.
That's what I mean when I saythe universe is going to make
space for you, right.
So I'll give you an example.
I used to be pretty scaredabout not having a place to stay
Right.
So what I mean is, like, if I'mleaving like, let's say, today

(29:43):
I'm leaving on a road trip,right.
If I'm leaving like, let's say,today I'm leaving on a road
trip, right.
And if I don't have a place tostay tonight, like I get a
little anxiety right Used to be.
Now I just know that theuniverse is going to make space
for me, right, right, becauseI've had enough of those
experiences where, like, I knowin the back of my mind that I'm

(30:07):
going to be okay.
You know, maybe today's my lastday but, other than that I'm
going to be okay.
Right If that, if that freighttrain doesn't come my way, you
know what I mean, or whatever itis Right, cause we never know.
But I mean that's what I mean,but like the universe is going
to make space for you.
Yeah, but I mean that's what Imean, but like the universe is
going to make space for you.

(30:28):
Yeah, you know, I've, I wastraveling out west actually
during the pandemic and and likethere were several times when I
left in the morning and ofcourse I had, I had my camping
gear with me.
I did a lot of camping.
I only maybe hotel, like youknow, a handful of nights.

(30:54):
I mostly camp because I likecamping and it's also really
cheap usually, of course.
But I like camping because Ilike that connectedness to the,
to the wilderness and and justto have my own campsite and be
able to have a fire and get mystove out and cook dinner and
things like that.
But yeah, there were severaltimes when I left out in the

(31:19):
morning and I went on myadventure and I remember one
time in particular particular, Iwas going towards the grand
canyon and I didn't have a placeto stay and it was.
I don't remember what time itwas.
I know it was dark, it wasprobably.
You know, it was probably nineo'clock at night and I'm just
I'm just still you hear thewolves howling in the background

(31:41):
right and I'm, and, yeah, andI'm just driving down the road
and and and a hotel presentsitself and I'm like, damn man,
like the universe is providing aspace again.
Yeah, um, you know, and andlike I mean we talked about a
lot of things in ourconversation and I'm a fairly

(32:02):
private person normally.
I don't.
Really I used to kind of squawka lot on social media.
I went through a reallyterrible experience with someone
and that kind of changed myperspective on social media, but

(32:22):
I've always been sort of afairly private person, you know.
But this is, I see this as agreat opportunity you know, to
share.
You know to share some of these.
You know, I want to go trekkingin the Himalayas.
I want to go volunteer to teachmusic to kids in Nepal for a
month and live with a family.

(32:51):
Or, you know, I want to go onsafari in Nepal and see a tiger,
like like it's wild I mean,yeah, I mean, but yeah, like I
just you know when, when I, whenI work with young people, I
tell them like look, you know,money's going to come and go,

(33:12):
Things are going to happen inyour life, Um, but you're never
going to replace thoseexperiences.
Yeah, you know, and I almostyeah, and, and I almost sort of
see myself sometimes as like acollector of experiences- oh, I
like that.

Speaker 1 (33:30):
I'm taking a mental note of that one for sure.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, I mean not for the sake of collecting
experiences, but because thoseexperiences have meaning.
You know what I mean.
Yeah for sure.
So like what's like?
You've told me some experiencesyou had.
I mean, like what would be anexperience that you've had
traveling or being sort of,let's just say, outside of your

(33:55):
comfort zone.
That's stuck with you.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Gosh, do you remember when no, I don't when the world
was supposed to end with theMayan calendar?

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Well, yeah, All these freak out moments never seem to
come true.
It's, like you know, weird.
Well, dude.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
I was in Amsterdam when the world was supposed to
end.
Uh, the world was supposed toend and you know, there was like
, you know, in the newspapers,like even in the newspapers,
it's like is this the last day?
You know, there were, like Iremember yeah so many, so many
things that were like remindingme of this last day and I'm like

(34:40):
shit, I'm like if, if, it'sgonna be the last day, I mean
like I'm in amsterdam, like Imean how bad, it's a crazy place
yeah, I'm like how bad could,uh, my last day be?
so, um, man, that was one of theexperiences that really helped
um shape my life.

(35:01):
Actually, because, like youknow that I don't get me wrong
like I did have just a littlebit of anxiety about um you know
what was um going to happen,although it then like brought me
, um, let's see here, uh, amoment of clarity where I was

(35:21):
like like look at the frickinearth and like how long it's
been here, like there's nothingor no one that can predict an
end to all of this crazinessthat has already occurred.
And I'm like, in my mind, I'mlike okay, like everything is

(35:45):
going to be fine, like there'snothing like the billions of
years that have created all ofthis Right.
And then like one day it's justgoing to end because, you know,
because somebody said so, so,gosh man, that was one time that
I really, and then, you know,woke up the next day and I had

(36:06):
like dude, I had like a freshslate.
I was like I felt like I couldtake you know, I felt like.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I could take on the whole world after that it was
like it was like Y2K, you know,and, and everybody's like, oh,
you know, all the computers aregoing to die and everything's
going to stop working, andliterally it was the most
anticlimactic, uneventful youknow whatever day of the week

(36:33):
morning it was when we all wokeup and realized like wow, you
just like freaked us out.
Yeah.
For completely nothing Likeit's like it couldn't have been
any more normal.
It was just like oh, it justwent from zero to one, okay,
cool.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
It's wild, isn't it?
You know, something that wehave been conversing about that
I really want to touch on issomething called that you
actually introduced to me,called levels of analysis.
Yeah, I think we should dive.
Yeah, that's a deep dive.
Yeah, I think we should diveinto that.

(37:13):
For the listeners who don'tknow, is that a term that you
created yourself or is thissomething that you learned on
your travels?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
I mean sure I'll take credit for it.
I mean I don't, it's yeah.
I I mean I think I guess thatterm like I've never heard
anybody say it that way.
I I mean I'm sure somebody has,like you know just how many
billion people in the world,right?
Um, but yeah, I mean levels ofanalysis.

(37:43):
I mean it's simple and it'salso extremely complicated at
the same time.
Okay, the way I look at it isit's a framework that I apply to
difficult questions or to youknow whether it's, you know,

(38:04):
they say like don't talk aboutreligion and politics.
So they say like don't talkabout religion and politics.
So I think we should probablytalk we should do politics,
that's why we're here you know,because, um, I've never been one
to like let people tell me whatto do.
Very well, nice, generally aleader and a mentor and not
someone who's like good at Imean.
Mean, I'm an okay employee, Iguess, but I'm a much better

(38:27):
leader and and I always tend tobe the one that like steps up
and kind of takes the reins whenshit goes sideways, especially
especially doing events.
But anyway, um, yeah, so levelsof analysis, I mean it's
basically, you know, the idea isthat everything has different
levels of complexity.
So one of the things that forme, we have, like I have I'm

(38:52):
sure other people have theseexperiences too but we have
these formative moments in ourlife, like I was sharing with
you when I went over, I hikedthe Annapurna circuit in Nepal
and went over Thirung La Pass,which is over 17,000 feet, which
is a huge deal.
Yeah, it's a famous thing and itwas a dream fulfilled for me.

(39:15):
It was something I had wantedto do since I was seeing these
things in National Geographic asa kid.
But the levels of analysis is aframework that you can apply to
situations and it's like thinkabout it like an onion, right,
okay, if you have an onion inyour hand and you want to

(39:35):
understand this onion, like thesurface level, things are easily
peeled away, like those firstcouple, like really papery brown
layers, right, and so.
So the formative thing that Istarted to talk about, the
formative thing for me was whenmy mom said to me as a kid she

(39:56):
said she said some people aresurface swimmers and some people
want to be deep sea divers.
Oh yeah, I love that, right,and so that's a metaphor like,
my mom's a brilliant woman andum, yeah, like I can't bring it
in here.
I can't do enough.
Shout outs to my she's yeah, Imean, she's like one.

(40:18):
She's one of my favorite peoplein the whole world, for sure,
and we have a great relationship, which I'm very, very, very
grateful for, and I doeverything I can, as she's
getting older, to help her andbe there for her and stuff.
But she said that to me and itstuck with me.
So it's like if you want tounderstand an onion, and if you

(40:40):
peel away those first couplebrown papery layers, you know
like those come off reallyeasily, right.
And then you get to that, thatfirst kind of like real oniony
layer that you'd actually wantto eat, right.
And then you got to kind oflike get your if you're doing it
with your hands, right, you'dhave to like get your
fingernails in there and reallypull at it and and eventually

(41:01):
you know you're pulling away allthese layers of this onion and
and you're you know you'repulling away all these layers of
this onion and you're cryingand your hands are going to
smell for maybe a day or two,and you got onion under your
fingernails.
Your breath.
Right, yeah, exactly.
So all that is to say that thelevels of analysis framework is
like how do you peel away thelayers of things like asking

(41:24):
questions, asking questions thatlead to other questions, for
the sake of having a full, deepunderstanding of something?
Oh yeah, you know, um, I meanone of the things you know, like
um, and I, I guess I kind ofwant to have a little disclaimer

(41:46):
because we're probably going toget into some stuff that's
controversial and it might evenbe upsetting for sometimes for
people to hear and I don'tintend any upset, um, but one
thing that I've learned,especially studying history and
the history of politics and thehistory of ideas, is like a lot

(42:09):
of the ideas and the things thatwe think we know, if you really
dig into them, they're not true.
Like what?
And they're not real what yougot.
So, like take slavery, forexample um, you know this is,

(42:31):
it's a.
It's a very difficult topic,right, um?
And and I've heard people havevery good understandings and
I've also heard, you know,politicians talk about how, you
know, black people were the onlypeople that were enslaved.
You know, and yes, to a degreethat's true about our history in

(42:56):
this country, but these thingsexist within a much greater
context.
You know, context, yeah, youknow, and so in, and this is not
and I don't mean this in a wayto like belittle any group's

(43:16):
experience or anything like that.
Again, it's like the levels ofanalysis, like how do I have
like the most completeunderstanding of this thing?
Right, you know, and so youknow.
It's like you look at historyof different places and slavery
is the norm of you know.
You look at whether it's NativeAmerican cultures enslaved one
another.
You know the Vikings enslavedthe Irish.

(43:40):
The Barbary pirates, you knowthe Corsairs, the Barbary
pirates, the Corsairs, they wereNorth African pirates who
enslaved Europeans for severalhundred years.
Oh, wow, I always ask people,where does the word slave come
from?

Speaker 1 (43:59):
Do you know, I don't actually Let me think Slave,
slavs, I think we might havetalked about this.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, yeah, the Slavic people.
Slavs, I think we might havetalked about this.
Yeah yeah, the Slavic people ofEastern Europe.
Okay, right, and again, it'simportant to understand these
things on a deeper level Becausea lot of things are used.
It's like these things are usedpolitically and otherwise, and

(44:30):
they're used to divide people.
Talking about, you know, talkingabout these ahistorical
versions of history for theirown political gain.
That ends up polarizing people.

(44:51):
You know, it's like I want tolike, jump up and down and
scream and be like you.
Either you're either ignorantof the history of the world or
you know the history of theworld and you're lying about it.
Right, right, and I'm notreally sure which one is worse.
Maybe the lying about it, ifyou know the truth is worse.

(45:12):
Um, but, yeah, I mean it.
You know, it's like.
You know, look into all thosethings.
If, if you want to learn aboutslavery, like, look into it.
Right, you know, I mean and,and, and.
Those answers are probablygoing to be uncomfortable to
people.
You know, like, like the factthat, um, you know, I, I didn't

(45:35):
know for a long time, I didn'tknow that north africans
enslaved europeans.
You know, it's part of thereason that that the united
states Navy was created ohreally, yeah Was to stop,
because they were pirates onships and they were attacking
and taking the cargo andenslaving the people.
And there was a point where theUnited States was paying the

(45:57):
Barbary pirates a large amountof money every year to basically
not attack our ships, yeah, wow, and so it's just.
we have to understand thatlooking back like that was the
norm for everyone.
You know, study Japanesehistory, study Chinese history,

(46:19):
study the African history.
I mean study the history of thepeoples of the Americas.
You know North America, centralAmerica, south America, slavery
is all throughout all of theirhistories.
You know slavery wasn'tofficially outlawed in Africa
until 1981.

(46:40):
Yeah, I remember you said that,and so, like these are really
uncomfortable truths that I meanI take no pleasure in any of
this.
You know, I'm part of myheritage is Irish.
You know, the Barbary piratesenslaved the Irish.
The Vikings, well, enslaved theIrish.
The British certainly tookadvantage of the Irish quite a

(47:05):
bit.
The British certainly tookadvantage of the Irish quite a
bit.
You know and it's like peopledon't know that you know, I mean
, the United States is the onlycountry that fought a war to end
slavery.
That's a good point.
They don't know that.
You know we worked with theBritish, at great cost of lives
and treasure, to end the slavetrade.

(47:25):
Um, you know, and it's all ofthis information is available,
right, and so it's what?

Speaker 1 (47:34):
let me ask you something, um, as far as,
because you really do seem verywell versed in history,
different histories, you know,where did your love for that
come come from, and and what?
What made you?
What made you want to want tolearn those things yourself?

Speaker 2 (47:54):
um, I've always loved history.
Um, my mom is is a is abrilliant woman.
She's studied history quite abit, which is interesting
because we agree about a lot andwe also disagree about things.
So my mom and I have very spicyconversations at times, and we,
we, I think we learn a lot fromeach other, yeah.

(48:16):
Yeah, because, because you knowwe have different interests and
you know she's obviously livedthrough a lot more than I have.
Um, but I, you know, studyingnative american cultures when I
was a kid, that was a big thingfor me.
Um, uh, I was a big fan of davycrockett, like I just thought.

(48:37):
Like the idea of this personbeing able to, you know, survive
in the wilderness and make aname for himself, which is like
something that very few peoplecould probably actually do now,
is to like survive in thewilderness with, like a knife
and a hatchet and a Flint andsteel.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
And it's not anything like the naked and afraid shows
, right, right.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Right.
But yeah, I mean from you knowI used to go to.
I would.
I always loved reenactments.
Would love going to to to tourlike old battlefields.
Uh, would love going to to totour like old battlefields.
Um, uh, we used to go towilliamsburg for a number of

(49:18):
years for christmas, oh, wow,and yeah.
And then when I was a littlelittle kid, I went to a place a
few times with a friend of mine.
We I went with them on theirfamily trips two or three times
and it was a reenactment placewhere all of the reenactors
would act as if they lived inthat time and did not know of.

(49:42):
Like today, oh, wow, right.
So they're like, how did youget here?
and I'm like, oh, we drove, it'slike they took a time machine
yeah, yeah, they, they likeacted as if they didn't know
what a plane was what a car was.
They acted as if they reallywere living in that time frame
and did not have knowledge ofour time.
So, I remember that beingreally interesting.

(50:05):
I think that there's so much tobe learned from history um that,
like you, could study oneculture for your entire life and
and not learn at all right, youknow and um, I'm a person who's
, like, I really like learning,and I guess that comes with

(50:31):
being an autodidact, but I'vealways just really enjoyed
learning and I've always enjoyed, like, knowing what the actual
truth of things are.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Oh yeah, you know, and not just like the face value
, not just like what you hear oryou know, read in, maybe like a
textbook itself, but findingout like the true history of
things and not just what's, likeyou know, spewed out there.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
It's, yeah, it's that levels of analysis thing again.
Um, you know, and I mean a lotof the, a lot of the truths of
our history.
In I mean a lot of the truthsof our history, I mean as humans
, but in our country too, a lotof the things that people talk

(51:20):
about politically now it'salmost like people are just
willfully ignorant of ourhistory, right, ignorant of of
our history, right, um, you know, like I mean, this is probably
going to sound somewhatcontroversial, but like the idea
, like the fact of our historyof of discrimination, of like

(51:45):
anti-black discrimination, likethe truth of our history is that
it was political, you know, inin large sense, right now I'm
not.
I mean, I'm not saying thatthere weren't racist people in
all, because of course therewere, but the but that was
largely driven by politics.
You know, every single jim crowlaw, uh, slavery itself, the

(52:12):
kkk, um, discrimination laws,these were all a part of the
democrat party.
They were all a part of thedemocrat party platform.
The confederacy was thedemocrat party.
They were the party of slavery.
Um lincoln was the firstrepublican president and and the

(52:36):
part of that platform was theabolition of slavery.
Right, and people don't realizethat before, you know, after we
broke away from great britain,before the united states was the
united, before it became theunited states, when it was just
all the colony states, that someof those states tried to end

(52:57):
slavery.
Back then, oh, wow, you know so.
So, and I say this because Idon't like tribalism, okay,
studying history has taught methat when you put people into
groups, you dehumanize them,right, wow, like we're, like
white men, right?

(53:17):
So what the fuck does that mean?
I know, right, I mean, I cancuss on your podcast yeah, yeah,
because I get a little fired upsometimes right get it, but
like what the fuck does thatmean?
yeah that doesn't define me inany way, right?
Um, and?
And so there's this narrativeand it's highly politicized that
it was white people againstblack people.

(53:38):
And there is truth to that, ofcourse, but it was the democrat
party that was driving thatnarrative.
You know it was a politicalnarrative and it's something
that you know.
Today.
There's like this narrativethat Republicans are racist and
all of these other differentthings, and it's like there's

(54:11):
very apply the levels ofanalysis to these politicized
discussions and you pull awaythe layers of the onion and you
look at the actual history.
Like, please, if you'rewatching this and you're
questioning what I'm saying,like please go and look all this
stuff up.
Yeah, like the democratsencouraged, filibustered the
civil rights laws.

(54:34):
What does filibuster mean again?
Um, basically delaying actionby, um, having just endless
debate.
Okay, so I think they debatedfor like 70 days or something.
I don't know if it's still therecord, but I'm pretty sure it
was the record for the longestfilibuster.
It may still be.
I don't know if it's still therecord, but I'm pretty sure it
was the record for the longestfilibuster.
It may still be, I don't I can'tI can't know all of the facts

(54:57):
and figures, but who debated who?

Speaker 1 (54:59):
did the debating.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Well, they didn't.
They didn't want the vote tohappen, so they're basically
stalled.
I mean, if you, if you look atthe voting, you can look at the
voting records and theRepublicans supported the civil
rights legislation to a muchlarger degree than the Democrats
did.
When Teddy Roosevelt startedthe progressive party, he didn't

(55:31):
invite the the black democrat Imean, I'm sorry, the the black
delegates, because he wanted topander to the racist southern
democrats what is theprogressive party?

Speaker 1 (55:44):
again, what?
How would you define that?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
um, well, he, I mean it's.
He started that, that partylike he.
He was a republican and he wassnubbed by the republican party
for the presidential nominationagainst um taft.
I think it was okay don't factcheck me too hard on that, um,

(56:11):
but yeah, but I'm pretty sure.
But anyway.
So he knew he wasn't going toget the nomination.
He started the ProgressiveParty, which is supposed to be
more about workers' rights and alot of things that we consider
as progressive today.
But even like the progressiveshave a dark history as
progressive today, but but evenlike the progressives have a

(56:32):
dark history.
Um, people, I think today, likethere's we're just so highly
propagandized that, like, please, like, ask these questions and
go and look at these things.
You know, please, like, go anddo your research and don't
outsource your thinking.
Don't let these people on thesesquawk boxes you know whether

(56:54):
it's on your phone or a tv like,don't let these people hijack
your mind, you know?
Um, I mean, yes, of course,there ended between 1865 and
1900.
Do you know how many blackpoliticians were elected to

(57:20):
office, and I'm talking evensenators and congress people?
Do you, do you?

Speaker 1 (57:25):
know, I mean I, I would maybe possibly venture to
guess, maybe like 20?
.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Multiply 1,500.
Oh wow, oh my gosh.
So the real truth of this is thereal truth of this time in our
history, was that black peoplewere standing together.
Okay, black people were werestanding together.

(57:56):
Okay, and and I say this as aperson like I've I've worked
with so many black artists andlike love their stories and just
I've made art with these peoplelike I don't, you know, I have
nothing but love in my heart foreveryone and I don't I don't
see like, of course I seepeople's skin.
Of course I see people's skincolor.
Of course I see people'sdifferences.
Of course I respect differentcultures, but I don't think that
any of your outwardcharacteristics is what defines

(58:18):
you.
You know what I'm saying.
So the real truth of, as I seeit, the real truth of this time
period was that these blackpoliticians were gaining power.
We have to remember there's likefour million freed people now
in the south and and that'swhere we get the kkk from the
kkk was started by formerconfederate soldiers I believe

(58:41):
six, I think um who weredemocrats, and it was they
started the kKK and theyterrorized black people.
They terrorized, and in themovie that I that I told you
about that, that you watched,it's called the free state of
Jones.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Yeah, and it's a Matthew.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
McConaughey film it's , it's.
You know I'm not a huge moviebuff, but that's one of the ones
that they have a brilliantdepiction of this whole thing
right.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, it really does help you understand um the
history and and how umunfortunate some of these
circumstances in the uh theunited states uh were.
But I I do feel like it reallythe movie itself really did kind

(59:33):
of show the perseverance ofsome of those characters and,
gosh man, it really made methink of just some of the things
that I consider a problem or astruggle you know, is nothing.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
The incredible strength of the black community
at that time was seen as a hugethreat.
Yeah, you know, and like I justdon't know how well people
understand that time.
You know, reconstruction andpost reconstruction.
Reconstruction was,reconstruction was uh, until

(01:00:12):
1877, I believe.
Okay, um, so it didn't, itdidn't last that long and like,
and grant didn't really want tosend troops down south very much
.
That became fairly unpopular,um, as I mean, of course, like I
was like, why would martial lawbe popular?
Like nobody's going to be a fanof that for too long, right, but

(01:00:35):
even the northerners were, youknow, tiring of that.
So so that's, you know that'slike where we get a lot of this
from.
You know, and, and you know, Imean it's to me like I have
mixed feelings about, you know,confederate statues.
I mean that's another thing.
I mean I'm sure people aregoing to be upset to hear that
at some point.

(01:00:55):
But you know, like this isrespecting perspectives.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Got to man.
That's why we're here.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
And some of these things like, yes, a lot of our
history is uncomfortable, but Ihave, you know, I have mixed
feelings about it and I, I, youknow, but it is democrats taking
down statues of past democratsand you know, and and I don't
mean like I don't likepoliticians in general, I don't

(01:01:21):
really like either of thepolitical parties.
So I feel like I'm fair tocriticize all politicians.
I think we all are you know andI and I think that even if you
do have party loyalty, if youare the type of person who feels
a loyalty to one party oranother, or maybe as an
independent or something elselike, I still think that one of

(01:01:41):
the best things you can do iscriticize your political party
and the other people.
And look at both sides of thesearguments.
You know, again, with like,respecting perspectives.
I mean, like we know what itlooks like when the left goes
too far.
You know, um, again withhistory.

(01:02:03):
I mean people don't realize,like the idea that the idea that
nazis are on the right wing,like it, doesn't it?
That to me doesn't it's a newidea.
Like the nazis were socialists.
Right, nazi literally meansnational socialist german
workers party.
Okay, like they were socialists.

(01:02:25):
Um, to get back to theprogressive thing, yeah, the,
the progressives, earlyprogressives, believed in things
like eugenics.
What is that again?
Um, eugenics, essentially likethe, the.
The basic view is isessentially the idea that

(01:02:46):
certain people or types ofpeople are basically like, bad
for the gene pool.
Right, it's, it's a very um,these, it's a very like it's,
it's this.
It ties into this politicalideology that that people have
that like we know better thaneverybody else, and so you just

(01:03:07):
have to let us do all of thethinking and all of the planning
and everything's going to getbetter, which, again, like there
is no historical evidence thatthat's true.
Right, this is, this is just anideology.
It's like a thought that peoplegrab a hold of and they think,
yeah, this is the way.
But it's basically the ideathat, you know, we should

(01:03:30):
essentially kill off people thatare going to be bad for the
gene pool.
So I mean, go and look thisstuff up, like, go and look up
the history of these ideas, like, if you're interested, study
the history of ideas Like whatis eugenics, what is Marxism,
like what is critical theory andwhat are these things, and like

(01:03:53):
, go back to the lineage, youknow, go back to Das Kapital and
go back to, you know, thebeginning of Marxist thought.
Like, essentially Marxistthought is the idea that the
world is divided into oppressorsand oppressed Right.
World is divided intooppressors and oppressed right,

(01:04:18):
and and it plays out in historyin things like the holodomor,
like everyone knows, of the naziholocaust right, and I realize
I'm talking a lot and no, it'sokay, man, I'm very, I'm a very
passionate person and I, when Iwas growing up, I always felt
like this is going to get alittle personal.
I always try to explain thingsto my dad and I felt like he

(01:04:40):
didn't understand, so my way ofcompensating for that was to try
to be a really good explainer.
Yeah, you are, and it'sbenefited me immensely as like a
teacher and a mentor, butanyway.
So this idea of you know itplayed out in what was called
the Holodomor, which was theUkrainian genocide.

(01:05:01):
So the idea was that the peoplethat were successful farmers
right, they had a house, theyhad a piece of land, they had
maybe a few, you know, somelivestock, you know these were
seen as like the successfulpeople.
The idea was that they'resuccessful not because you know,

(01:05:23):
because they learned how tofarm or they worked hard or they
sacrificed or you know any ofthe other number of reasons why
we know that people would besuccessful.
The idea was that they weresuccessful because they were
oppressing others, right?
And so this Marxist idea comesalong and they say, well, we're

(01:05:44):
going to call these peoplekulaks, right?
And so what we're going to dois we're going to get rid of all
the kulaks and we're going totake the farms for ourselves
because we're the oppressedpeople.
So what happened is, of course,they killed the farmers who
were.
You know, ukraine was and isstill a breadbasket.

(01:06:05):
Essentially, I mean, it's afarming, it's a flat piece of
farmland.
Basically, you know obviouslynot entirely, but you get what
I'm saying and so they killedall the farmers and they
expropriated all their farms andthe next thing, you know, you
know however, many millions ofpeople died of starvation.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Wow man.
Let me let me, let's dig alittle bit.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Sorry, it's really uplifting conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
No man, it's actually .

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
It's something that we need to kind of talk about
and it helps people, I think,drives them into finding answers
for themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
But let's go to the topic of like how to think and
what to think you know you werekind of getting, we were kind of

(01:07:08):
going down that for a secondbut kind of dig a little bit as
to you know what that means andyou know how people can take
that I think about.
It is like what we're told youknow.
Like we're told I'm sorry, whatto think is what we're told.
Like we're told something aboutpolitics and we're told that

(01:07:30):
you know this person is, youknow whatever, whatever
pejorative term that they'regoing to use you know, and and
we're told what to think.
You know they have these, youknow it's.
It's kind of like thedifference between if you have a
tv, you know you have a TV newsand somebody's telling you the

(01:07:52):
events, versus a roundtable ofpeople all giving their opinion
about something.
So that's like being told whatto think.
It's like if you find that theideas that are in your head are
just things that you've heardpeople say over and over and

(01:08:14):
over again.
Like you really, really if, ifyou want to do this levels of
analysis thing, you really haveto dig in and realize that some
things that you think you know,you're going to realize you're
wrong.
You're wrong like be humbleabout it like own the fact that
you know what and own it andmove on and move right and try
and teach people and I mean, andthat's why, if you can, you

(01:08:37):
know that's why I'm here.
I mean I'm here to have you know, like when we first talked
about this, I said like some ofthese conversations might get
really uncomfortable anduncomfortable to listen to and
and I understand like I used tobe a lot different than I am now
.
I've learned how wrong I wasabout a lot of things by
studying a lot of history, um,but yeah, so how to think versus

(01:09:01):
what to think?
I mean how to think is like thelevels of analysis thing.
You know it's like who, what,where, when, why, how.
You know like you can startwith that, like that's a good
levels of analysis piece.
You know you asked me the otherday like how do you, how would
you apply that to your work andwhat every?

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
day.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
So.
So when you were at work thatday, how did it show up for you,
like the levels of analysis?
Let's see here.
So when you were at work thatday, how did it show?

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
up for you, like the levels of analysis?
How did it show up for you?
Let's see here.
Well, as I entered the people'shouses, I kind of asked them
lots of questions and tried tounderstand, like, had we ever
been there before?
You know what were some of theproblems that they were?
It was really asking questions,it was.

(01:09:54):
You know, why are we here?
And the question sort of led tothe next yeah, led to the next
question, and then kind of alsoled to the customer even like
delving some information thatthey didn't think was applicable
to the situation in helping mediagnose the problem, when it

(01:10:17):
actually ended up beingsomething very important to me
diagnosing the problem itself.
So, yeah, I kind of navigated mywhole day with those questions
and, yeah, man, it really helpedme to figure out some of the

(01:10:38):
problems that some of theheaters and the air conditioners
that I was fixing, helped mefigure out how to get to the
bottom of the actual problem.
Get to the bottom of the actual, you know, the problem.
And it also allowed me to do itin a way that, like, was

(01:10:59):
educational and it helped mekind of learn throughout the
process and then, at the sametime, what it did was.
It helped me learn about thecustomer, you know, and like
some of the things that theywere going through and like, say
, it was like an out, now thechallenges were coming up
against, like going to, like, anelderly woman's house who, like
, weren't able to answer some ofthose questions.

(01:11:20):
So I had to kind of like levelsof analysis like myself, like
okay, am I asking the rightquestions?

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
You know, it made me really think about um, am I,
yeah, am I digging in the rightdirection to be able to find,
you know, the answer to aproblem that we, you know, we
can probably solve together?
But I mean, think, man, there'sso many questions, there's so
many problems out there thatmaybe we're just not, you know,

(01:11:50):
asking you know the rightquestions to.
So it takes a little bit tothink about that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
So, yeah, let me ask you, brian, you know, what is,
or are, some of the hardestthings about the levels of
analysis for you to either like,grasp or, you know of explain,
to kind of, to kind of give tothe people I think the most

(01:12:18):
challenging thing for me has hasbeen learning when I'm wrong
and recognizing, like the thingsthat you know, that where the
evidence does not line up withmy position and you know, it's
almost like there's too manyexamples to list, but one that's

(01:12:44):
probably relatable and also Iknow, is going to be
controversial for a lot ofpeople, obviously I don't shy
away from controversy.
Shout out to Zippo, by the way,because his hand warmer is
amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
In case anybody's wondering like yeah, like this
is like it's a little cold.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
It's been keeping my hands warm.
I don't mind the cold, I justdon't like being cold.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
Right, you said that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
But yeah, like I mean the idea of like being immune
to evidence, you know, like theBible says, by their fruits you
shall know them Right.
So it's like.
What that means to me is thatyou have to look at the evidence
of things you know it's like.
You know, okay, we have X, y, zpolitical policy, right, you
know?
I mean maybe you want to say,well, you know, Baltimore's been

(01:13:36):
run by the, the Democrat Party,since 1967.
Like, and and what's the?
Is there evidence that thatit's really gotten better?
And I don't mean to be bashingon the Democrats, like I, I
don't.
I don't like politicians.
I just am using this as anexample, of course, um, but you
know, my mom told me a story.

(01:13:57):
We were talking about thehistory of baltimore and kind of
doing a deep dive, and she saidthat when she was a kid her and
her family used to get dressedup and go shopping on howard
street and howard street waslike the she-she shopping
district, like with the fancydepartment stores.
You been to Howard Streetlately?

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Right.
Who knew Right Gosh?
You know there are pockets of,you know certain places that
maybe aren't what they once were.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
That's a nice way of saying it.
It's not what it once was, yeah, for sure, um, but it's
interesting because if you gothere, you can actually see some
of the remnants of the past oflike the old like hosier cone
and like some of the olddepartment stores, um, but you
know, by by their fruits youshall know them like, like, are
these politicians really makinganything better?

(01:14:51):
You know, and to the extent thatpeople want to hate other
people for what they think theirpolitical beliefs are, I mean,
people might think they knowwhat my political beliefs are by
some of the comments I've made.
I guarantee you that you don't.
You know, because it's a lotmore complex than just picking a

(01:15:11):
side to me, right?
You know, I very much considermyself an independent and, like
I said, I don't like eitherpolitical party.
I like some ideas on both sides.
But, um, you know, like, don'tbe immune to evidence.
Like, if there's evidence thatyou're wrong, you're're probably
wrong.
You know it's like.
Occam's razor right.
The simplest explanation isprobably the right one, right?

(01:15:37):
You know, it's like people usedto go and sleep in Druid Hill
Park when my mom was a kid inthe summertime, because not
everybody had air conditioning.
Wow, I mean, that's how farwe've fallen, in a way.
And don't get me wrong, like Ilove this city.
This city has given me so much.
I've given a lot of myself tothe city and the people of this

(01:16:00):
city, so I don't mean to soundlike really negative, but again
it's.
It's that levels of analysiswhere, like the facts, you know,
like, as, as conservativecommentator Ben Shapiro says,
facts don't care about yourfeelings, you know, and a lot of
people are like bristle at thethought of that, right, but and
I get it, but it's still trueLike, whether you like it or not

(01:16:25):
, it's still true.
And so we have to, you know, wehave to confront real things
and real problems with realsolutions.
You know, and I hate to see allof this political division, you
know, and I hate to see peoplethat, especially like people
that say that they're tolerant,be so intolerant of anyone that

(01:16:46):
disagrees with them.
Have a conversation Likerespect perspectives with them.
Right, have a conversation likerespect, perspectives.
I mean, like you know, like myfamily is goes from one side of
the political spectrum to theother and we still we all talk
and we all love each other andwe disagree and we learn from
one another.
And I mean one of my cousin'shusbands.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
I've had like brilliant conversations with him
and we disagree royallydisagree about stuff, right, but
I think the fact that you'retaking the time to talk about it
is extremely important and, uh,I hope this conversation and
lots of the other conversationsthat, um, I've had with some

(01:17:28):
other guests have helped uh, youknow some, some, some listeners
out there to be able to posecertain questions.
Let me ask you this, though youmentioned a Bible verse there.
Let's see, let's touch just alittle bit on religion itself.
Do you feel like religion issomething that is critical in

(01:17:53):
our navigating life itself?
I think that was the way Iwanted to ask it.
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
I think, religion and spirituality.
What's always interested me isthat religion and science dead
end at the same place.
Some people call it Genesis inthe Christian tradition.
Oh, some people call it genesisin the in the christian
tradition.
Some people call it the bigbang theory.
But they dead end at the sameplace.
Yeah, so, um, I do, I, you knowreligion.

(01:18:21):
Um, I consider myself to bemore spiritual than religious,
like, like, personally, yeah, Ihave studied Christianity.
I mean, I was raised as aChristian.
I sort of found my way intoBuddhism, which I don't really
consider Buddhism so much areligion as like more of a way

(01:18:44):
of being.
Yeah, I love that.
But yeah, I mean, in my travelsI've been to synagogues and
temples and Buddhist temples,hindu temples.
I've seen ancient rituals inNepal.
They say that there's 365 daysa year and 366 festivals a year

(01:19:07):
in Nepal.
Oh, wow, yeah, it's really cool.
They have a festival foreverything.
It's wild.
It's on my bucket list, dude.
Go it's and let me know it's,I'll give you some pointers.
It's, it's an amazing place.
It's like india light, oh likeindia is like the most intense
place in the world that I'veever been to and why do you say
that?

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
what do you mean by intense?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
It is an all-out assault on your senses.
It is sight, sound, smells, thetaste.
I mean you go from the mostamazing smells to stale urine in
like five steps.
The people are amazing, butit's also like they have no
personal space so somebody mightsit on your lap on like a

(01:19:49):
tuk-tuk.
I mean, it's also like theyhave no personal space.
So you're, you know somebodymight sit on your lap on like a
tuk-tuk.
I mean it's wild, but I dothink that religion binds us
together.
I think that we would do wellto remember that.
You know, everyone wants totalk about rights.
You know the right to this andthe right to that and and I'm a

(01:20:14):
big um, I'm sort of like aclassical liberal.
I guess you would say which is?
You can go and look that up, um, to have a full explanation,
but it's it's.
It's different than what a lotof people would consider like
liberal now, um, but I do thinkthat you know I'm a big believer
in the first amendment, likethere's a lot of places in the
world where I've lived, placesin the world where you can't say

(01:20:34):
what's on your mind.
And there's nothing worse.
Trust me, that's unfortunate.
The idea of misinformation.
Let's not even get into that.
But, anyway.
misinformation is just somethingthat they don't want you to
talk about pretty much.
But yeah, the idea that we havehuman rights comes from

(01:20:55):
religion.
It comes from the idea thatwe're all created in the image
of God.
In other words, each humanbeing has value.
Like you don't have to doanything.
You don't have to be anything.
Like everybody matters have tobe anything.
Like everybody matters.
Everybody has value.
That's why I've always been ahumanist.
That's why I try to treateveryone equally.

(01:21:18):
I try to treat people withrespect.
I always try to make peoplelaugh, like I purposely didn't.
I think I cracked one jokeearlier, but I purposely didn't
try to like make you know, makea lot of jokes, although if you
ask my coworkers.
I'm always making my coworkerslaugh.
I'm always trying to lighten themood a little bit.
I think humor is a verypowerful gift and I've always

(01:21:41):
liked comedians and stuff Me too.
Yeah, I mean, I do think that,maybe not being like a religious
fundamentalist necessarily, butunderstanding that we're all
connected and in whatever waythat shows up for you and you're

(01:22:03):
on that journey and you'relearning if you want to learn
about these differentperspectives, yeah, I do think
it matters.
You know the idea that we havehuman rights.
I mean, you know we were like afirst, a first country to have

(01:22:24):
the idea that our rights comefrom God essentially, not from
other men, Like that's why ourBill of Rights says that the
government can't do things to us, because they're not the ones
that give us our rights.
Oh yeah, that's a good pointRight, like we have rights
because, however you wish to seeit, we are created in the image

(01:22:47):
of God, right, and I thinkthat's really powerful, and I've
lived in places, like I said,where you don't have those
rights, and I guess what I wantto leave people with, what I
really want to leave people with, is gratitude.
Yeah, you know it's so easy tocomplain about things and and

(01:23:13):
I'm not saying that there'snothing to complain about,
because of course certain thingscould be better but if you're
complaining on the internet, onyour thousand dollar cell phone
sitting on the couch, you knowyou buy your food from the
grocery store like everybodyelse.
You know, like study somehistory, like realize that a

(01:23:36):
hundred years ago most, mostpeople lived on less than a
dollar a day.
You know realize that in in fora long time, people lived with
livestock in their house becauseit was so cold, yeah, that the
livestock was part of whathelped to warm the house.
I mean, can you imagine livingI mean, this is true like the

(01:23:58):
dark ages and things like that.
I mean they call it the darkages for a reason.
Like I said to you, I wouldlove to do a podcast for people
about the horrors of history,yeah, I feel like you could
educate a lot of people withthis information, but just be
grateful, like and I don't meanto say like, don't work for
change or don't you know, don'tput your all into what you're

(01:24:23):
passionate about.
Like, of course, do those things, you know, of course.
Like, try to make the worldaround you better.
Of course.
Like, see the things that arewrong.
Like, yes, like, yes.
But be grateful for all ofthese things because we live in
the most prosperous, information, rich, wealthy time in human
history, you know.

(01:24:44):
Be grateful that you have freespeech.
Be grateful that you live in aplace where, in a time where,
you're not constantly farmingall day, every day, and be

(01:25:07):
grateful that you're not a serf.
Be grateful Like go study aperiod in history.

Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
Like, pick a period, pick the Middle Ages, pick a
hundred years ago, a thousandyears ago, right and just you
know and and like don't look ateveryone in history as if you
know better than them.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
Right, like understand, like yes, they
screwed things up, of course,but understand that they were
operating in the time, that theywere operating with the things
that they knew.
And a hundred years from now,people are going to look back
and they're going to be likewhat the fuck were they doing in
2026?
I mean, we just lived through apandemic, right.

(01:25:52):
And talk about the levels ofanalysis, to kind of tie all of
these things together the levelsof analysis, the not
outsourcing your thinking, thewhat to think versus how to
think.
We were told all of us,constantly, every day, that the
jab, as some people call it, wassafe and effective.

(01:26:17):
Right, and this is a thingthat's, I understand, highly
controversial, right, polarizingfor a lot of people.
People were saying, oh, if youdon't get the jab, you shouldn't
be treated in a hospital.
I'm like whoa, really Likelet's be human about this, right
, but we were told that it'ssafe and effective.

(01:26:38):
There's no evidence that it.
Like.
What evidence are you going on?
Show me the long-term testing?
Oh, we didn't do long-termtesting.
So, again, it's like don't beimmune to the evidence, don't
let people outsource yourthinking.
Think for yourself.
And if you think for yourselfand you come back to the same
conclusion, okay, yeah.

(01:27:01):
Or maybe you're still wrong,yeah, yeah, you know, like my
sister asked me what I was goingto do on this podcast and I
said that I hope to help peopleconnect the dots.
Okay, right, but you can'tconnect dots that you don't know
exist, right.
So learn about history, thinkfor yourself, like, really

(01:27:28):
question things, like you saidwhen you were at work that day,
like one question led to thenext, led to the next led to the
next, and it led to you being abetter tech that day.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Yeah, definitely, you know, it did so led to the next
, led to the next and it led toyou being a better tech that day
.
Yeah, definitely, you know so,um, I love, I love all those
lessons that, uh, that we canlearn.
You know, um, and you mentioned, uh about you were talking
about thousand dollar cellphones um wait, who is this?
I hear something in the distancehere.

(01:27:56):
Yeah, yes, uh, can I help you?
Oh, this is.
This is brian.
Oh wait, brian potts, what yearis this?
19, 1990.
Oh goodness, okay, wait asecond.
I got somebody here who really,um, just wants to uh, speak
with you and I'm going to handthe phone over here.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
Hey.
So look, I know that you'restubborn and that you're
probably not going to want totake my advice, but what I will
tell you is that you're going tolive a great life.
You're going to follow yourpassions, you're going to make
people around you laugh, you'regoing to make music that's going

(01:28:43):
to change people's lives, andsome of the things that you do
will lead to growth incommunities that you won't
realize until years later.
On a personal note, stay awayfrom the tall blonde from high
school.
She's no good.

(01:29:04):
Other than that, you madepretty good choices, but
definitely that one.
Just keep walking.
When you get there.
You'll know what I mean whenyou get there.
But yeah, you know, um, takegood care of yourself.
Uh, start saving money a littlebit earlier probably a good

(01:29:24):
idea.
Um, don't pass up anyadventures.
I know you won't.
I know you're an adventurousperson and, for god's sake, keep
playing and practicing yourdrums.
Love you, man, I love you allright, you heard him.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Love you dog peace nice, nice, that's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
I like that I like that.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
All right, all right, and this is even funner.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
But I guarantee you, if I got a call back then I'd be
like you'd be like I'm nottaking it, I'm not it.
So I tried to give myself goodadvice.
That advice I think I wouldhave taken.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Yeah, I'm stubborn.
So I mean, I know myself wellAll right, so I have some right.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
I got some rapid fire questions here.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
All right, and this the dome as quick as possible.
Okay, all right.
Who is the funniest person inyour family me, oh darn.
Who is your favorite characterfrom dc or marvel comics?

Speaker 2 (01:30:24):
uh, you know, I don't really know.
I never got into comics.
Okay, love the art, I justnever followed any okay, which
fast food restaurant could youdo without?
Uh, I haven't eaten mcdonald'ssince 2010.
I will never eat it again.
There you go or taco bell.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
I don't like taco bell either.
Okay, what does love mean toyou?

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
um, love is a is a journey, um, it's a home, it's
something I try to reserve apart for myself and a part for
everyone around me who matters,you know, and all my friends and
family and stuff, and you knowI love you all and my Jackson
family and and my Potts familyand all my extended families and

(01:31:10):
, yeah, yeah, everybody love mymusic family too, love it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
Who's the most famous person you've ever met?

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
that's a good one uh off the top of my head, maybe,
maybe dennis chambers, oh okaythat's him, that's it, that's
your answer famous baltimoredrummer.
Look him up, go listen to him.
He's amazing.
Love the guy to death.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
He's, he's awesome does money buy happiness?

Speaker 2 (01:31:38):
um, yes and no.
Uh, the cost of everything isthe time that you give up for
that thing love that perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
What do you remember about preschool?

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
hmm, um, I remember rapid fire.
Yeah, I remember it was a.
It was a little catholic school, I think, or maybe a lutheran.
It was a lutheran schoolactually all right, it was a
cool place, okay, I wasn't likeone of the really cool kids, but
that was okay yeah, preschoolman, I'm a cool kid.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
Now, right name.
One rule in your house you'dlike to establish?

Speaker 2 (01:32:21):
Leave no mess.
Lean up after yourself.
Love that have you ever brokensomething and let another person
take the blame.
No, I'm a pretty honest person.
I own up to my mistakes, to thebest of my abilities.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
Have you ever waved at someone you thought you knew?
But?
Realized you didn't um, I havea photographic memory so if I
wave at someone now I know Idon't forget people's faces, and
I don't forget songs okay, comeup with a really good excuse
for missing work they're on theline right now um, I don't need
an excuse.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
If I'm well, I don't miss work, so good good answer.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
If you could add anything to your backyard, what
would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
uh billion dollars in cash oh, you're on point.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Two billion dollars, why not?
Why not?
Do you think you'll ever befamous?
What do you think you'll befamous for?

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
I've had chances.
I've never wanted to be famous.
I've just wanted to follow mypassions and make the world a
better place and make peoplelaugh when I can.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Love it.
What game have you spent themost hours playing, whether it's
a video game?

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
I've never owned a video game system, um, but I
play disc golf and so that'sprobably nice.
I love games, though like likeactual games, for sure, games
you play with other people ifyou could be invisible for one
um jeez uh I would.

(01:33:58):
I would go somewhere that Iwould never.
I would go see, like, maybe,the inside of a nuclear power
plant, or or I would gosomewhere, um, maybe in like a
highly restricted kind of areaand photograph you you know,
like document it Love that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
If you could repaint the house any color, which color
would you use?

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
I don't know, probably like a modern kind of
gray.

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):
Modern gray.
There it is.
Do you own a piggy bank?
I don't think so.
Okay, all right.
Which car cartoon do you wishyou were a character on?

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
I never got that into cartoons, but I loved this show
about drawing.
I think it was like commandermark learns to draw or something
, and he drew these really coolspace creatures and like, yeah,
nice.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
I was never much into cartoons.
One last one, coconut orpineapple.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
Pineapple but coconut water, there we go.
Yeah, fresh pineapple though,for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
For the record.
Yeah, all right, bri.
Hey man, listen, I reallyappreciate you being here and
thanks for diving into sometopics that maybe we haven't
gotten to talk about on thepodcast in the past and really
getting to hear about yourmusical history, and I look
forward to us.
We're going to be working onsome music in the near future.

(01:35:36):
That's the plan.
Yeah, and I'm really excitedfor that.
And, hey, man, thank you forbeing here.
Yeah, thank you.
And hey, thanks for joining ustonight on the Respecting
Perspectives podcast and we'llsee you for the next one.
Peace out, Peace out.

(01:35:58):
So.

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Drumming, Travel, and Deep Thoughts - Brian Pott's Perspective

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Drumming, Travel, and Deep Thoughts - Brian Pott's Perspective