December 22, 2025 • 50 mins
Guests don’t come to a full‑service restaurant for a transaction; they come hoping to feel something. We dig into how to deliver that feeling on purpose through connected hospitality, turning routine steps into genuine moments of care that guests remember long after the check drops.
We start by grounding everything in food, then layer in the human element that differentiates you in a crowded market.
You’ll hear how:
- We reframed performance reviews into get‑to‑know‑you conversations.
- Why curiosity is a trained skill not a personality trait,
- “Ping pong” questions replace scripts to create real dialogue.
- Growth requires humility, we unpack a one‑star review
If you’re ready to coach curiosity, hire for heart, and transform checklists into connections, press play. If the conversation sparks ideas, subscribe, share the episode with your team, and leave a quick review so more operators can find it. What’s the one question you’ll ask at your next table touch?
P.S. Ready to take your restaurant to the next level?
- Get the Independent Restaurant Framework that's helped countless owners build thriving multi-location brands. Grab your copy at https://www.IRFbook.com
Podcast Production: https://www.lconnorvoice.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Concept or something that's that maybe feels
familiar, that's been completelyreimagined, or I try a new menu
item that it has flavors oringredients that I've never ever
tasted before.
And then that I get to sit downand have conversations with
people like you who introducewho introduced me to a new
concept called connectedhospitality.
(00:21):
And so this came up a lot whenwe were having coffee.
And I'm super excited to diveinto this with you today.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
SPEAKER_04 (00:30):
Love it.
Pumped to be here, enjoyed ourprior conversations as well.
Um, yeah, connected hospitalityis kind of um redundant, right?
I mean, hospitality isconnection by its very
definition, but um connectedhospitality for Big Red F, it's
it's one of our key values, andand you're creating memories
(00:52):
with that type of interactionwhere you are truly connecting
with someone, where you arehaving them feel seen,
recognized, heard, whetherthat's in a corrective situation
or more hopefully and likely apositive situation, um, but that
they're uh recognized aspresent, right?
And that is really what peoplego out to eat for.
(01:15):
Um, you can get great food in alot of places that don't require
any sort of interaction, andsometimes you're craving that.
So you're gonna roll to a quickservice restaurant and get some
pretty quality food and eat itin your car and hopefully not
get it on your shirt on the wayhome.
You know, so that's oneexperience, but the other that
people come out to full servicerestaurants for, which is
becoming more and more, Ibelieve, differentiator in the
(01:35):
market, is whether or not theyfeel like they made a meaningful
connection with the food becauseof the story that's told by the
plate, um, or the person whothey had an interaction with
that they have come to expect tobe dismal or perfunctory or just
service and not hospitality.
So that connection is somethingthat we try to attack from like
(01:58):
17 different angles.
Um, and it's it's crucial andit's not automatic, and it has
to be coached and it has to bevalued, and and it's something
that once you get a certainamount of momentum, it does kind
of steamroll because you startto feel the vibes and the
excitement and and you get highon the connection yourself.
Um so it it's that's when themagic really starts to happen.
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
I love it.
As you're talking about it moreand more and more, your energy's
starting to speed up.
Like you can tell that you'reyou are very connected to this
topic.
I love that.
Was that you mentioned that thisis in your core values?
Has it been a I'm curious aboutyour core values?
Were they created at the verybeginning of Big Red F?
Have they changed over time?
SPEAKER_04 (02:39):
They've changed over time, they have to change over
time.
You know, it's something that umI've been there for a lot of
years, and it it uh is somethingthat has to evolve because the
business evolves.
Um, and it is something thatwe've always been focused
specifically on food.
Food is, you know, with achef-driven owned um restaurant
(03:00):
group.
Uh Dave was talking about ityesterday at our director's
meeting, you know, just flatout.
It's like the food is the mostimportant thing because it
really is.
People come out for great foodexperiences and then it gets all
of the bells and whistlessurrounding that.
Um, but food has always been oneof the underpinning pieces.
But yeah, this connected serviceprobably in the last two to
three years has really becomesomething that we want to
(03:21):
manifest in a different way andbe intentional about because
we've had some spectacularemployees over the decades that
we've been open where it's justhow they're wired, right?
And it's exciting to see um, youknow, their natural gifts be
displayed in that way, whichthey they could choose to
showcase any place else in anyother capacity.
(03:42):
It's how it would um they wouldthey would be rewarded in the
same way.
Um, but to choose to do it inthe hospitality realm and to do
it in relation to food andcreating food memories and
hospitality experiences, it'sreally cool.
So, yeah, that but I would sayit's always been a part of the
core values, but um, it reallyis connection to our
communities, connection to ourstaff, connection to our guests,
(04:05):
connection to the plate, um, youknow, are the things that we
really focused on.
If we wanted to say there werefour sort of impromptu pillars,
um, because the community piecehas always been huge.
We've always been, you know, abig uh and deeply involved in
charitable organizations and andfunctions.
And we've basically got aboutevery month or two um some big
event that we're doing to try toraise money for something.
(04:26):
We had Towny Fest last weekendat Post Lafayette, and we've got
High West Oyster Fest um comingup this fall, and there's just
several others that that werealways a huge feed that we do at
Post Boulder now.
It used to be a solo for theImagine Foundation, where we're
feeding, I don't know, 600, 700people for Thanksgiving dinner.
So there's there's a lot um thatwe get involved in.
(04:48):
So that's connected to.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
How does connection, I'm I'm curious about how
connected hospitality kind offlows through the organization.
Yeah, and you're talking alittle bit about it in terms of
community guest, um, but I'm I'mcurious about the leadership.
How does connected hospitalityshow up within your leadership
team kind of from that top-downorganization?
SPEAKER_04 (05:06):
Well, I think it's something that we are really
focusing on in the comingmonths, because we have this is
one way it's manifesting.
So we've got biannual reviews,right?
It's something that you just youknow do.
And um they we've had greatreview seasons and we've had
relatively rewarding reviewseasons.
And the way that we havemigrated it now is as opposed to
(05:28):
it being a performance review,it's basically a uh a get to
know you review.
It's an opportunity for thestaff to see their employees in
a different way, where we're notworried about whether or not
you're marking your tablescorrectly or whether or not
you're on time.
Like those are disciplinaryissues, those are things that
should happen every day in themoment, in the constant gentle
pressure that is leadership andmanagement and all the non-fun
(05:49):
stuff.
And so the reviews this timearound are trying to create
depth in the appreciation of whoyou are, having you be seen.
I mean, hospit hospitality is isuniversal.
We we treat our guests, we wetreat our guests rather as we
treat our staff.
You know, that's a line item inthe handbook.
And it's something that we haveto take to heart.
(06:10):
It's hospitality to everydelivery driver, it's
hospitality to every uhmaintenance worker, you know,
it's grabbing a coke for theperson that's dropping off the
linen.
Like there's all kinds of greatthings that can happen because
it's a spirit of hospitality.
And so in those reviews thatstarts at the top and rolls
down, it's more of anopportunity to say, hey, we've
got 20 minutes, 30 minutestogether.
(06:31):
I want to come out of thisknowing you better.
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
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(06:57):
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(07:19):
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(07:40):
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Now let's get back to ourconversation.
SPEAKER_04 (07:56):
I want to come out of this understanding what
burgers you up.
That will allow me as a leaderto motivate you in a different
way because everybody'sdifferent.
Um, and in the heat of thebattle, we generally don't take
that time.
So we we try to intentionally umat this time of year really
invest in that relationshipbecause that's the type of
(08:19):
curiosity, which has become ahuge buzzword for us now.
Um, the curiosity that is uhnecessary to really caretake
someone.
If you don't know them, you youyou can't help them grow and and
help them be a better version ofthemselves, which really is
leadership, is what we're allabout.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
Yeah.
Is this a shift that you guyshave been making in your
performance reviews, or have youalways done it this way?
SPEAKER_04 (08:40):
It is a shift.
It is a shift.
So it's sort of the biannualreviews, the uh spring reviews
are more a little bit more tiedto performance, but they're
still, you know, 360.
Um, but in the fall, it's morelike, hey, we're coming out of
the busiest season, we'reinvesting in the people that are
not seasonal employees, thepeople that are sticking around
and going to be with us for awhile, and and um heading into a
(09:00):
time where you know, well, let'ssay the holidays are still
really busy, but um we caninvest a little bit more time in
the get-to-know you phase.
And you know, that that umcuriosity topic is something
that we're really diving intodeeply because you know, cure
curiosity creates connection.
If you don't ask the question,you can't get the answer.
(09:21):
You won't even know what theconcerns are.
And so, all too often,especially in some of our
workforces, which are you knowrelatively young, maybe it's
their first hospitality job, youknow, maybe they're a student
and they only need this two daysa week.
Maybe they don't necessarilyneed the money, but you know,
mom or dad said that theyabsolutely have to do this at
least a couple days, whatever,like their level of investment
might be different.
Um, but that curiosity ishumanity, you know.
(09:45):
That is, I want to know you alittle bit better, I want to
know what you need out of me, Iwant to know what you expected
about this evening, I want toknow what your preconceived
notions are, what thisexperience is supposed to be,
yeah.
Um, so that I can morph myselfjust a little bit to accommodate
you.
Um, and all too often,especially when you get into the
steps of service and things, youknow, I'm checking boxes.
(10:06):
I'm just trying to get throughthe things that I was told by my
boss, I gotta get through.
Um if we do that, we are like athird of the way there.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:16):
Maybe that connection piece puts so much
more meat on the bone as to whatpeople are gonna walk out the
door and go, wow, man, that wasdifferent.
The food in those twoexperiences could be identical.
Um and they would say, Man, thefood was great.
I'd go back there.
Or man, the food was great.
And that was an absolute poormemory.
(10:38):
I'm never gonna forget thatbecause of this happened or that
happened, and there's all kindsof stories that that um equate
to that connection and the waypeople utilize restaurants as
the fabric in their lives thatwe maybe never know, and we
certainly won't ever know if wedon't ask the questions.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah.
Where is this um where's thisfocus of curiosity coming up in
the business?
Like why is this a focus for younow?
SPEAKER_04 (11:04):
So one of the things it it partially comes out of
honestly, it's born in the stepsof service.
So um uh we have something thatwe integrate into separate steps
of service we call ping pong,right?
So you're going to ask aquestion and then your response
is going to be adjusted basedupon what their answer is.
(11:26):
And and it can be as simple aswhat do you like to drink?
It's not sitting down andsaying, Would you like anything
to drink besides water?
That's just like it's anabsolute red flag.
I know that your hair probablystood up on the back of your
neck when I said that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
Yeah, I think I threw up a little bit in my
mouth.
Yeah.
Exactly, exactly.
unknown (11:41):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
So it that that's not asking a question.
That's a statement of my effortlevel is low and don't ask me to
do anything.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (11:49):
Right.
Uh, and so asking the genuinequestion what do you like to
drink?
What is your favorite type ofbeverage?
Have you ever had X, Y, or Zbefore?
I know you're probably thinkingmargarita.
Have everybody had a ever hadmezcal before?
Like just the simple pointedquestion, oh yeah, I've had me
scaling it's absolutelyterrible.
I wouldn't dream of it.
Okay, well, now we know, right?
We have a starting point forthis conversation.
(12:10):
And so it is not a litany ofingredients that we're trying to
get to with people, which Ithink is what a lot of um
restaurants default to.
Um, you know, it's got thisbeautiful coolie and it's got
this amazing sauce, and it's gotthese potatoes, and it's got
this protein, and it's cooked inthis way, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And it's it's a cooking show,you know, that we've all learned
that presentation.
(12:31):
Ours is the why behind it.
You know, why is it somethingyou're gonna love?
What is the literally the vibeof the dish?
What is this story that's beingtold?
Oh, it's a super homey stewthat's gonna make you feel like
grandma's house, like a littlebit more embellishment and
eliciting that memory vibe asopposed to the, oh, well, I
don't know what a shoshitopepper is.
(12:51):
You know, it's like, oh, okay,well, if you ever had a roasted
green chili or, or if you'veever had, you know, just you
know, a Mexican green chili,it's not gonna be quite that,
but there's a little bit ofsweetness.
There's, you know, it's it's nota list of ingredients because
that is mechanical and that isunconnected and depends on,
which is better than it's everbeen, but depends on a certain
level of food knowledge of theguest.
Um, and if they don't have it,now they're feeling like they
(13:14):
should know it, and that's not aposition we want to put them in.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:17):
Um so it it is born out of portions of the steps of
service, but it also is born outof um something I'm focused on
um sort of as a uh a module ofmany of the work workings that I
do with our leaders, because Isort of am in uh consultation
(13:39):
role with a lot of our umleaders in the restaurants,
specific to hospitality, thingsthat we call hospitities.
So, what is the opportunity forhospitality that you can create
that connection?
Um, and many of them, you know,it's a table touch, right?
Which is again that ping pong.
Um table touches can be supermundane and uninteresting and
(14:05):
unspirited, and um really justchecking a box again.
And you get the person who comesby and puts their two fingers on
the table and says, Thanks foreverything.
Sweet hope yet.
And then they walk away and theydidn't ask the question and you
didn't give an answer and belike, Does that guy even work
here?
Yeah, I don't know who that was.
Um so you know, us trying tofind what is that in where we
(14:27):
can build that connection andhave that question asked.
And you know, one of my favoritestories of recent was a manager
who shared this with um all ofus that they went to the table
and there was a gentleman whowas wearing a t-shirt, and the
t-shirt was two stick figures,and one half of the t-shirt was
a stick figure that was all sortof jumbled, like you'd taken a
bunch of dice of stick figurebody parts and then just throw
(14:48):
it out on the table.
And then another one that was astick figure that looked proper.
And they asked, What well, whatis that all about?
And it was a t-shirt for CraigRehabilitation Hospital in
Denver, which was close to oneof the restaurants.
Um, and so you know, just thecuriosity of the question about
the t-shirt led to this story.
And he shared that his daughterhad had a brain injury and that
(15:08):
she had been in a coma for along time, and that she was in
rehabilitation at CraigHospital, but that her daughter
loved one of the dishes at therestaurants, and it had become a
big part of their family, and hewas dining by himself.
So, again, it's another hugehospitality, as we would say,
single diner often overlooked asan opportunity to make a friend,
(15:30):
make a memory, make a connectionbecause they're not there for
anything but food and food,yeah, and food.
They're not selling anything,they're not buying anything,
they're not trying to impressanybody.
So that connection is ripe.
Um, but one of her daughter'sfavorite dishes was at the
restaurant, so he shared apicture of the family gathered
around to go food from therestaurant, from the post, it
was one of the post restaurantsfrom the post.
(15:52):
Um, and just this huge smile.
And the point that he made,which really struck me, was when
you can't talk, because she wasnon-verbal at that point, when
you can't talk, you can'tcommunicate, delicious food is a
tremendous source of community,connection, and enjoyment.
It was something that theytogether could all share in.
unknown (16:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
And all of that reveal and the deepening of that
connection with that singleguest, which is how we win
person by person, was created byan innocent question about a
cool teacher.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:25):
That's connection.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:26):
That's that's where it gets born.
And that's where we have theopportunity to say this is
someone who has a story to tell.
And if I don't invite the story,they're probably never gonna
hear it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Yeah, I mean, I love what you're saying here about
inviting the story.
Um it's we know that more andmore people are entering the
industry with less and lessexperience.
And that moment of just slowingdown and taking a second to look
at somebody's t-shirt andrecognize that the again, this
curiosity, this moment ofcuriosity that sparks for them
(17:01):
to say, Hey, what's that allabout?
I like your t-shirt.
What is that?
How are you how are you teachingand training that among your
hourly employees today?
SPEAKER_04 (17:12):
Some of it, frankly, comes out of an allegory like
what I just shared.
You know, that's an impactfulstory that if you aren't jazzed
about the opportunity that thatcreates from a humanity
standpoint, this might not bethe gig for you.
Like that, that is the most umme, that that is a charge unlike
(17:32):
any other charge.
Um so what we're in in specificto to table touches, we're
coaching, you know, what whatare the ins?
What are the bullet points ofwhere your areas of opportunity
are?
Because some people need to belearning from a book.
Some people hear that story andthey think, well, I'm gonna ask
every person about theirt-shirt.
Yeah, that's not exactly whatwe're coaching here.
(17:52):
It's sure that's a start.
Yeah, that's one of them.
And if that works for you,that's cool, you know, but at
least you're asking thequestion, you know, at least
you're opening the the umdialogue.
And sometimes, you know, you youget shut down.
Sometimes people don't want totalk to you at all and they
don't have any interest in it.
And that's fine.
And we're gonna read that, we'regonna move on for it from it.
(18:14):
But um, you know, as we'recoaching it in regards to
specifically table touches, it'syou know, what are those ins?
You know, it can be somethingthey're wearing, it can be
something you overheard.
It's perfectly okay to revealthe fact that you're an
eavesdropper by uh profession.
You know, there's there's a lotof comedy that can be shared
with that.
Um, and I think that so often umwe get the the comment from our
(18:38):
teams, and I know this isuniversally a challenge of um,
well, yeah, no, I touched everytable because I delivered food
to that one and I cleared aspoon from that one, and I
brought the IST to that one.
And be like, no, no, no, no, no.
This is like physically touchingthe table.
That that's the guy with the twofingers who stops by and doesn't
stay.
You know, we want uh thatconnection to be deeper and
(19:01):
there has to be a meaningfulinteraction.
And I think, like I said before,it's one of those things that
does require some hip pockettraining, um, so that we're sort
of modeling that behaviorthrough our directors or in my
role.
Um, and then we're alsoaffirming the great works that
are done.
So when we hear a story likethis, that that is essentially
that Craig Hotspital story iskind of like brand lore now,
(19:24):
shared with everybody else, andthey know that story and we'll
revisit it from time to time.
Um, because it illustratesexactly the power of what a tiny
little step will be.
You know, we you talk about Ithink curiosity invitations are
two really important pieces.
And um, you know, the importantto accept an invitation when you
(19:45):
receive it.
Um there's nobody that's invitedto something that doesn't feel
better about themselves becausethey were invited.
Thank you so much for theinvitation.
I mean, any of the parties orsocial gatherings or or
invitations to a podcast, liketo to have the invite it.
Makes the person who's beinginvited feel great.
And so we try to inject that toointo something as simple as a
(20:09):
phone call when a guest callsthe restaurant.
If that person gets off thephone and we haven't invited
them to make a reservation, thatmight not be their purpose.
But if we haven't extended thatinvitation, we are missing huge.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:21):
Hey, I'm checking to see if you have any specials.
Hey, I'm wondering if you guyshave a burger on the menu.
You know, nobody calls therestaurant with those kinds of
questions anymore, but ifthey're calling the restaurant,
they probably don't have opentable on their phone.
unknown (20:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:33):
And so as soon as we get them on the horn, can I make
a reservation for you tomorrownight?
I would love to make yourreservation for you tomorrow
night.
Can I invite you to join ustomorrow night?
Or are you thinking abouttonight?
What night are you thinking?
So if we get off the phonewithout offering that invitation
of a reservation, um, we'remissing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
I I agree 110%.
I don't call a lot ofrestaurants anymore, but I kind
of want to now, just for fun tosee who is willing to extend
that invitation.
I I call, I well, I won't tellthe story, but I the last
restaurant I called it wasawful.
Um I had to pull every piece ofinformation out of the person I
was on the phone with, um, whichwas just really torturous.
unknown (21:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:10):
Which speaks to that attitude of curiosity.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
100%.
Yeah, this person wasn't curiousabout anything.
unknown (21:16):
Nothing.
SPEAKER_04 (21:16):
I'm curious about getting off the phone.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Getting off the phone.
Yeah.
Didn't that person did not seeme as a guest?
unknown (21:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
They saw me as somebody who was interrupting
what they were doing during theshift.
SPEAKER_04 (21:26):
Which was probably rolling silverware or something
that something really was notthat important.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Yeah.
How are you identifying thatcuriosity, that willingness to
to give an invitation, thatconnected hospitality?
How are you identifying that incandidates during the interview
process?
SPEAKER_04 (21:42):
That's a great question.
Um so one of our key tools thereis uh interview guide.
Um, and we've honed that alittle bit over the years, but
the the initial um question iswhy hospitality?
Why are you in hospitality?
Why is this your drive?
Why is this your choice?
And we refuse to let the res uh,I'm sorry, the interview go
(22:05):
beyond that question if wearen't satisfied with the answer
to that question.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
Because the, you know, the three most common
responses that you get are themoney is good.
I like the flexible schedule,and it's what I've always done.
Those are three non-starters forus.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Okay.
And tell me, tell me whathappens if somebody gives that
one of those answers.
SPEAKER_04 (22:23):
So the ideal is if somebody said, well, the
response should be uh the moneyis flexible.
I'm sorry, the money's good,schedule flexible, it's what
I've always done.
Well, um, you deserve to be wellcompensated in whatever you
choose to do.
And so I'm gonna assume whateverjob you work in, the money's
gonna be good.
Your schedule has to fit yourlife, and it has to fit your
life inside and outside ofwhatever your employment choice
(22:44):
is.
And having done something for along time doesn't necessarily
mean you're really good at it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:49):
So we reflect it back and say, okay, what
hospitality.
Well, I really like people.
That's the other one that youhear a lot.
I really like working withpeople.
So, okay, well, you can workwith people at Barnes and Noble,
you can work with people athospital, you can work with
people um at Costco, you know,wherever you want to work,
there's there's peopleeverywhere.
Why hospitality?
And if they can't get there, ourneeds and your focuses aren't
(23:11):
necessarily aligned.
Thanks so much for joining us.
If there isn't some sort ofpassion in there, yeah, of I
love creating memories throughfood, I love whiskey, and I love
tequila, and I love sharing myloves with other people.
If there isn't this idea of Ihave a passion for the subject
matter, which you would requirein any role, right?
(23:33):
Like if you're a lawyer, youlove to read a lot, right?
Like it's just seeing thoselibraries, right?
Um, if you don't love to read,you're not gonna be a lawyer,
amongst other things.
But if you don't love food, ifyou don't love drink, if you
don't love the idea of creatinga hospitality-based memory, then
you're not for us.
And so we try to weed that outat the start.
(23:54):
And there's not a lot of peoplethat are able to fake that.
Um, you know, and so that's thethe first sort of steps, you
know.
We're and we're looking for uhsocial cues that would indicate
that you love it.
Level of smile, level of eyecontact, um, you know, what are
some of those physical bodylanguages?
(24:15):
Um, and then we will do inselect situations sort of uh uh
impromptu exercise.
If we get through the theinterview, we get to the end of
it, and it's like, you know, itmight be last night's special on
a little sheet of paper.
And I'm gonna give this to you,and I want you to take two or
three minutes um to study that.
And I want you to come and greetthe table and greet the table as
(24:36):
if you're my server.
And generally we see tworesponses to that excitement or
trepidation.
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:43):
The excitement is, oh, sweet, yes, because they've
done that, they know that.
This is not a speed bump.
I'm not requiring you to dosomething that's uncomfortable
at all if you've done it somuch.
Um, or it's like, I don't knowwhat these ingredients are, and
I don't know what your steps ofservice are, and I don't know
any of this, that, or the other.
And like, okay, this is youmight make it, but that's not
what I'm hunting for.
SPEAKER_00 (25:02):
You're not curious.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (25:03):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (25:04):
You you aren't willing to dive because this is
a especially in this is I'mspeaking almost specifically of
um like front of house roleshere, but in in this last
example.
Um, but if if you havetrepidation about greeting a
table, what are we talkingabout?
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
Right.
Like you you're you're you'remaybe support staff a bowl, but
you've got to be curious aboutpeople.
SPEAKER_04 (25:27):
You've got to be fascinated about asking, you
know, you're the person at thegrocery store.
I can think of a guy at my localgrocery store, Will, you know,
friendliest guy on the planet.
How's your day today?
How things going?
Yeah, I thought this.
I mean, and he does it every 16minutes, right?
Or three and a half minutes.
And it's the same thing.
It's awesome because he'sinterested in people.
(25:48):
He's not bored with it becausehe's excited about the response.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (25:52):
The response drives his energy.
SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
Yeah, I just had this funny visual of somebody
buying a car just to go sit init, but they're never gonna
drive it.
Like, okay, I'm all excitedabout this car.
Okay, and I'm never, you know,then I'm not gonna take it
anywhere.
I'm not gonna go enjoy theexperience.
Um, how do you I'm fascinated bylove that you're using the
interview guide.
Sounds like your interviewpractices are very aligned with
(26:13):
your core values.
Um, I am fascinated by howquickly you're identifying if
somebody is a fit or not.
And then, and then so I'massuming what in the matter of
five minutes or 10 minutes, youcan say, nope, thank you so much
for coming in.
We're you know this isn't thisisn't a fit.
(26:34):
We, you know, we wish you allthe best.
So that that and that candidateknows when they walk out the
door that that's it, they're notgonna get hired.
They're not waiting for a callback.
SPEAKER_04 (26:42):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (26:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:43):
I mean, we're we're trying to, I mean, some of this
was born out of um it reallyexisted before COVID because the
hiring situation before COVIDwas so intense.
Totally.
It was like, look, I gotta hireon the spot.
Like, yeah, you well, for us, itwas more like the competition
was so high because there wereso many restaurants opening,
especially in Denver market.
SPEAKER_03 (27:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (27:05):
That we were realizing like if we do a first
interview and try to callsomebody back for a second
interview, they're gonna behired by somebody else who
hasn't vetted them.
SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (27:13):
But they're gonna hire them just because they have
a beat heartbeat.
So if they have a heartbeat,great.
If they aren't our fit, thenlet's send them on their way
with a release so that they knowit's not gonna be us.
And we're excited about the factthat it's not us because we know
it's not right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (27:26):
But we had seen so often, especially our younger
and less experienced managers,you know, of which we have fewer
now, we're proud to say, um,that they would spend 30 minutes
sitting with somebody and thenhiring them simply because they
kind of talked themselves intoit over those 30 minutes, be
like, well, I spent 30 minuteswith this person, I should
(27:47):
probably hire them.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
Totally.
SPEAKER_04 (27:48):
Um, as opposed to taking the objective assessment
of the data that they got, whichis the other thing that the
interview guides help us with.
Now we're now we have apples andapples.
Now I have a set of three orfour people, or I've done this
enough times with the same setof questions that I have a data
set that is comparable.
SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
As opposed to I'm speaking to you and I'm thinking
more about what's my nextquestion than I am listening to
your responses and logging overmy history of interviews where
those responses live related tosuccess that I've seen.
Um, and so hopefully, you know,if they uh leave the restaurant
(28:27):
and are told the why, um theyleave actually better.
That six or eight minutes thatthey invested with us, if it's
truly that short, like I canthink of one that we did, and it
ended up being a great trainingscenario because I was
conducting the interview with acouple of new managers.
Um, and the gentleman had comein and he had a decent looking
resume from Mountain Towns.
(28:49):
Um, but then the resume hebrought to the interview wasn't
the resume that was online.
It had a bunch of uh real estateand financial services.
Um, and we asked those questionsand we got the three bad
responses about hospitality.
And then I specifically said Iwas like, I see your resume
here.
This isn't the one that we hadon the online application.
(29:11):
Is there a reason you broughtthis one?
And he said, Well, yeah, I justdidn't have a printer and I
didn't have the time.
And I said, You recognize thatyou're you know you're applying
for a hospitality position.
SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
This really doesn't feel like the level of
investment that we're lookingfor, and we would expect you to
be invested in hospitality ifthat's where you want to be.
If you want to be in banking,that's where you should bring
this resume.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (29:30):
Um, thanks so much.
Wish you the best of luck.
Feedback grew out of that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Totally.
Hey there, podcast friends.
I hope you're enjoying theseimpactful conversations and
leadership insights I'm bringingyou each week.
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and reach out and ask a smallfavor that would go a long way
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take a moment to leave a ratingand review wherever you listen
(29:58):
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(30:20):
Thanks a million for beingawesome listeners.
Are you what is the uh I'mcurious I'm I'm so curious about
so many things, but um I wasgonna ask you how you get your
managers comfortable with withbeing able to cut it short and
not spend the 30 minutes becausethey feel bad for somebody or
they feel bad that they took allthis time to get dressed up and
(30:42):
bring in their resume, and theyprobably know that they're
nervous and they're trying toconnect, but it sounds like the
interview guide is the tool thatjust helps them get there.
SPEAKER_04 (30:50):
The tool helps them get there.
Some of the um satellitematerials that go with the
interview guide as well speak tothis is the preservation of your
own time, right?
Yeah.
You you don't want to waste,we're looking at time management
here.
Totally.
So a lot of times in theinterview training, um, in one
of the key modules that I workwith with our managers, it's
(31:11):
about time management.
And you need to schedulespecific times during the week
where you are going to be doinginterviews, and the whole team
knows you're going to be doinginterviews, and they can relate
that to people that are walkingthrough the door with a resume,
they're like, Yeah, come back atthree o'clock on Thursday, and
just make that a prioritybecause if we're always hearing,
we're never behind, nevermissing out on super high
quality people.
(31:32):
Um and and if you are in theregular habit of it, then you're
able to hone those practices.
But the the real it's kind oflike the table touch, you have
to have that aha moment whereyou're able to say, because you
you have a self-belief and youhave a conviction in what you
will and won't accept, and youknow that this person's
behaviors are something youwon't accept.
(31:54):
And so you let them know, youknow.
I mean, shoot, it might even bewe've had interviews where it
just goes to a really dark placeand they use a word or a phrase
that's unacceptable, and we say,Hey, I gotta stop you right
there.
Like the phrase that you justused, that's not aligned with
our company culture.
And and if that's the way youfeel about hospitality, then uh
we're just gonna uh respectfullysay no, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (32:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:14):
And know that the managers know that they have the
right to do that and that it isthe correct thing to do in that
instant moment.
So so really it's an emboldeningof the managers to say,
sometimes it shouldn't come as asurprise, but you're the boss.
Yeah, you get to decide who getsentrance to your team, who you
(32:36):
allow through the gate.
Yeah, because once you hirethem, they're yours.
SPEAKER_02 (32:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:41):
You know, and now we gotta work on developing and
training.
And so who do you want to investthat time in?
Who do you want to spend thetime getting to know well?
And you it will be more excitingto do it when somebody in that
interview, you're walking out ofit being like, oh heck yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:54):
I just met this woman, Sarah, and she is a rock
star.
And when we hear that and seethat, it generally pans out to
be true.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
I wish I would have had that verbiage that you just
used of like, I'm gonna stop youright there.
This just does not align withus.
I had is just totally took meback to when I was, oh gosh, I
don't know, fift 15 years ago orso.
I had a um an interview with abarista friend of all the staff.
She should have been, shouldhave been a shoe-in, right?
(33:22):
Coming in.
I was a new manager coming in,and this person came to the
interview, was had a greatexperience, you know, high
volume, a lot of hospitality,and dropped an F-bomb during the
interview.
And I and I I went my went onwith the interview.
Again, I wanted to give thatperson the time because they
were a staff, you know, friend.
And the staff was so pissed offat me when uh when I told them
(33:45):
that we weren't gonna bring thatperson on because they dropped
an F bomb during the interview.
And I and but I didn't, I didit.
They looked at me like I was thevillain.
Um instead of me holding it tothis is just not acceptable as a
company.
We are a breakfast restaurant,we don't need people dropping
F-bombs at our tables.
SPEAKER_04 (34:05):
So especially when you don't know anything as the
employee or the the candidate,right?
What is the company culture?
What is the expectation?
Like that's taking tremendousrisk, and with risk, you know,
there's a chance that it's notgoing to be a reward.
And yeah, you know, that's agreat opportunity for that
manager, you know, when thestaff is like, I can't believe
(34:25):
you didn't hire him because heused an F-bomb.
I'd be like, Well, I wouldn'thave hired you if you use an F
bomb.
Yeah, I won't hire anybody thatthey just lash out an F bomb in
the midst of it because if thatperson is already that
comfortable in that role becauseof their relationship with you,
they will only see worsebehaviors.
SPEAKER_00 (34:41):
Totally.
And I I liked that they werecomfortable, but not that
comfortable.
Yeah, not that comfortable.
Yeah, they they thought it was ashoe.
Oh, I love it.
What do you see um from the whenyou turn away the candidates
that that are not a fit?
Yeah, I loved your perspectiveof like, hey, we're doing
something to help them grow.
I don't know if a lot of themsee it that way or not when
(35:02):
they're rejected.
SPEAKER_01 (35:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
But do you find that they they come back as guests or
do they ever reapply?
Or are they what's the reaction?
SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Uh I would say more often than not, they're if we
phrase it right, they'reappreciative.
Um, you know, some get up fromthe table mad and walk away.
And in that case, we really knowwe're right.
SPEAKER_00 (35:27):
Yeah, totally right.
SPEAKER_04 (35:28):
Like that's just if if they blow up and be like,
this is blah, blah, blah.
You know, this is like, well,you have just affirmed exactly
all the attitudes that I didn'twant to add to my team.
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (35:35):
Um, but we have had people that have reapplied, um,
especially in the manager rankswhen we're able to give them
feedback, you know, this issomething that we're not looking
for for this position, and thenthey'll see another position
available, like, hey, I appliedfor this and you told me that.
So I thought maybe this would bea better fit.
Like, hey, I agree, and let'stalk.
So, yeah, it's you you can'tcontrol how people are going to
react, but you got to stick toyour guns and decide what you're
(36:01):
willing to put up with and whatgets you excited.
And um, you know, it it's it'sreally um we're there is a
hiring for a specificattitudinal fit that's really
hard to measure, right?
It's it's kind of like art, youknow, it's different for
everybody, and you look at it onthe wall, and for some people
(36:22):
like that's just a gobbled mess.
And then other people be like,it gives them chills, yeah.
Right.
And so there's aspects of thatwith the fit that you can just
feel in hospitality.
And yes, some of it is bodylanguage and its posture and its
confidence, and it's you know,their their speed of of response
and whether or not they'resmiling, whether or not they're
easy in their own skin, and youknow, it's a lot of those
things.
(36:43):
Um, and and some of it has toplay out over time, um, and you
can't assess that in theinterview.
Um, but I think that that whenyou're able to give feedback, it
helps you hone your ownparameters as to what excellence
(37:05):
is continually, right?
Because it's like um the tediousrepetition of the simplest
movements is what make yougreat, right?
Yeah, and so all of these tinylittle things or constant gentle
pressure, however you want tosay it, uh, you know, that's why
I'm I'm not personally abeliever in um I think we talked
about this.
This is one of my littlemantras.
(37:26):
Um, I don't believe inmicromanagement, I don't think
it exists.
Yeah, I think it is a phraseused by those who don't like to
be managed because the littlethings matter, they're
important.
Yeah, all the little things.
And if you're doing all thelittle things right, then we're
not gonna manage those anymore.
If I'm telling you to do thingsthat are unimportant, untimely,
or you know, not relevant,that's bad management.
(37:48):
That's not micromanagement,that's not that's me having
improper focus, or that's me notunderstanding my um uh the
player on the team or the seatin the bus that they're on.
Um, but the little things allmatter.
And so if we're managing thoseand being communicative about
those and giving the feedback onthose, we're honing for
(38:10):
ourselves what our ownexpectation is and then honing
for the team what excellencelooks like.
SPEAKER_00 (38:13):
I love it.
I love that you're you'reoffering that little sample of
connected hospitality in theinterview process.
You know, I've always believedthat um the candidates that are
coming in, your doors areguests, right?
You you have you have anopportunity to to, or when we
let somebody go, you know,promote him to a guest, right?
SPEAKER_04 (38:31):
Sure, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and I mean, uh, this isthe the dark side of things, but
in a disciplinary process, ifsomebody is exiting our ranks by
our own choice and they don'thave great intel as to why, it's
not us.
Yeah, it's awful.
Yeah, that's that's sounacceptable.
That's just at wheel state,whatever you'll say, like it's
(38:53):
not quote unquote illegal, it'sjust bad business.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:57):
And it's bad leadership, and it's bad
coaching because everybodydeserves the opportunity to be
their best self.
That's our job as leaders, youknow, and with the assumption of
positive intent, you know, thatgets called a lot of different
things.
But you know, our my myassumption is that you're doing
your best possible job that youcan do on this podcast.
And I think you're doing anawesome job.
And and this is as good, this iswill get better, you know, over
(39:21):
time in any one thing.
But you, as my teammate, if I'ma server and you're a server and
you're having an off day, butI'm gonna assume that you're
doing the best that you possiblycan, I'm gonna do whatever I can
to lift you up, and then I'mgonna do better myself.
Like living in that space, we'vegot to own that as leaders in
any coaching scenario.
And if we've given a billionreminders or three sets of of
(39:41):
written warnings or just onestern reminder that this is not
okay, and then they still can'tshape it up, then yeah, we're
we're gonna make a change, butthey're gonna know why and
they're gonna leave.
And they're honestly um not togo all radical candor on you,
but they're they're they'regonna know we care.
SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
They're going to know that we're feeling uh that
we are wanting to feel connectedto them.
We are wanting them tounderstand the why behind
everything that we do.
Yeah.
And sometimes that why is whyyou don't work here anymore.
Other times, more often thannot, that why is um because it
makes a spectacular lifelongmemory for a guest.
And because the people that whohave decided to pull on our door
(40:22):
deserve to have a memorableexperience.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, I think so much of whatwe do on a day-to-day basis with
running businesses is aboutmanaging risk.
And I think, right, whether it'sa server making the choice to
touch a table or not touch atable, right?
There's risk to both things.
And I think the risk is, youknow, they're they're unhappy
and then I've got to move intoaction or or spend more time
with them or whatever.
And the risk of not touching thetable is that you miss an
(40:46):
opportunity.
Right.
And I think with a lot of ownersand operators, I think that
people don't necessarilyunderstand the importance of
managing their reputation andthe risk that they take when
they choose to let somebody goprematurely.
And and in in this market, it'sit's never been harder to find
(41:08):
great people.
And so love that you're offeringthat hospitality on the way out
the door.
That's great.
SPEAKER_04 (41:13):
Well, and that comment you made really struck
me, you know, the the risk ofnot asking the question.
That's curiosity, right?
The risk of not checking withthe guests.
And yes, as a server, is thefear of unknown worse than
whatever their complaint mightbe?
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
I I would say yes.
Like I don't think they had avery good time, and I feel like
that so I can relate a personalpoint on that.
Uh, and some of my team wouldlove this.
I got a one-star review on Yelp.
Personally, I crushed it.
There was a table during a superbusy night at one of our
restaurants.
They came in super late for thereservation.
They were a party of 12, butthey booked as three parties of
(41:56):
four.
And then once they got there,they all wanted to sit together.
And so it was already embattledat the start.
SPEAKER_01 (42:01):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (42:01):
And I feel like I'm relatively graceful at the
table, and we needed to turn thetable, and we made all kinds of
offers, and they were kind ofwaning in the time.
And I had great rapport with thetable, but there was one couple
at the table, group of family,and people were in from all over
town.
I want to say it was it mighthave been graduation last year.
Um, and I could tell when theyleft the table, I was like, Oh,
(42:24):
I might be in trouble with them.
And I spoke to them and Iapologized to them, and we and
then 16 hours later, boom, onestar review on Yelp.
Manager forced us to leave thetable, like just all of this mud
slinging, which was theirperception and was their truth,
yeah, and 100% bought into it.
(42:44):
And as soon as I read it, I waslike, that's this guy.
Um, and so I sent a message tothe team, and I was like, what a
great learning experience.
You're not gonna nail all ofthem.
Yeah, you we we don't ever wantto try to relocate a table that
is always fraught with issue,and it's a high-risk scenario.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
Totally.
SPEAKER_04 (43:02):
Um, and you're measuring, you know, future
guests versus you know departingguests, so there's no good
answers there.
And and you can obviously, in somany instances, do nothing
wrong, but not do everythingright.
unknown (43:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (43:18):
And that was one of those great lessons.
Like I had to do 16 times over,I might behave exactly the same
way, and the outcome might bedifferent.
But because I'm listening tothat feedback, because I have
the realization of how that oneended, I will never do that same
thing again.
I will grow from it, I will bebetter.
And so it was a great kind oflike reflective moment.
(43:40):
And then honestly, two weeks agoat one of these manager
meetings, the GM brought it upagain.
It was a sweet sting.
And she was like, Well, at leastwe don't have to worry about
many more one stars from Adam.
And I was like, Oh, I completelyrepressed it and forgotten all
about it.
But being able to have thathumility and receive that
feedback and and and showcaselike nobody's perfect.
It's not the mistakes you make,it's how you react, it's how you
(44:01):
grow, it's how you remedy, youknow, it's true in sports.
You know, you get beat on aplay, what's your next play
gonna look like?
It's it's true in business, it'strue in relationships, you know.
How are you gonna make it up?
And how are you gonna grow andimprove?
SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
I love it.
How last question for you, andthen I'll let you enjoy your
day.
Um I'm already enjoying it.
How are you how are you keepingconnected hospitality top of
mind for you so that it cancontinue to thrive through the
organization?
SPEAKER_01 (44:26):
Um I think the the same that one's easy.
SPEAKER_04 (44:32):
The same energy that uh a manager can get from the
connection they build with ateammate or the connection they
can build with a guest is thesame energy that I get from a
manager realizing the energythey get, right?
I don't know if I said thatwell, but basically their their
(44:54):
growth and their development andthem coming back and being like,
so for instance, we had a uhsecret shop in one of our
restaurants three, four weeksago, and a manager that I've
been working with, nottremendously, but we've plugged
in some of these um table touchmodalities, and we've talked
about the connected service, andshe's we've
Concept or something that's that maybe feels
familiar, that's been completelyreimagined, or I try a new menu
item that it has flavors oringredients that I've never ever
tasted before.
And then that I get to sit downand have conversations with
people like you who introducewho introduced me to a new
concept called connectedhospitality.
(00:21):
And so this came up a lot whenwe were having coffee.
And I'm super excited to diveinto this with you today.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
SPEAKER_04 (00:30):
Love it.
Pumped to be here, enjoyed ourprior conversations as well.
Um, yeah, connected hospitalityis kind of um redundant, right?
I mean, hospitality isconnection by its very
definition, but um connectedhospitality for Big Red F, it's
it's one of our key values, andand you're creating memories
(00:52):
with that type of interactionwhere you are truly connecting
with someone, where you arehaving them feel seen,
recognized, heard, whetherthat's in a corrective situation
or more hopefully and likely apositive situation, um, but that
they're uh recognized aspresent, right?
And that is really what peoplego out to eat for.
(01:15):
Um, you can get great food in alot of places that don't require
any sort of interaction, andsometimes you're craving that.
So you're gonna roll to a quickservice restaurant and get some
pretty quality food and eat itin your car and hopefully not
get it on your shirt on the wayhome.
You know, so that's oneexperience, but the other that
people come out to full servicerestaurants for, which is
becoming more and more, Ibelieve, differentiator in the
(01:35):
market, is whether or not theyfeel like they made a meaningful
connection with the food becauseof the story that's told by the
plate, um, or the person whothey had an interaction with
that they have come to expect tobe dismal or perfunctory or just
service and not hospitality.
So that connection is somethingthat we try to attack from like
(01:58):
17 different angles.
Um, and it's it's crucial andit's not automatic, and it has
to be coached and it has to bevalued, and and it's something
that once you get a certainamount of momentum, it does kind
of steamroll because you startto feel the vibes and the
excitement and and you get highon the connection yourself.
Um so it it's that's when themagic really starts to happen.
SPEAKER_00 (02:20):
I love it.
As you're talking about it moreand more and more, your energy's
starting to speed up.
Like you can tell that you'reyou are very connected to this
topic.
I love that.
Was that you mentioned that thisis in your core values?
Has it been a I'm curious aboutyour core values?
Were they created at the verybeginning of Big Red F?
Have they changed over time?
SPEAKER_04 (02:39):
They've changed over time, they have to change over
time.
You know, it's something that umI've been there for a lot of
years, and it it uh is somethingthat has to evolve because the
business evolves.
Um, and it is something thatwe've always been focused
specifically on food.
Food is, you know, with achef-driven owned um restaurant
(03:00):
group.
Uh Dave was talking about ityesterday at our director's
meeting, you know, just flatout.
It's like the food is the mostimportant thing because it
really is.
People come out for great foodexperiences and then it gets all
of the bells and whistlessurrounding that.
Um, but food has always been oneof the underpinning pieces.
But yeah, this connected serviceprobably in the last two to
three years has really becomesomething that we want to
(03:21):
manifest in a different way andbe intentional about because
we've had some spectacularemployees over the decades that
we've been open where it's justhow they're wired, right?
And it's exciting to see um, youknow, their natural gifts be
displayed in that way, whichthey they could choose to
showcase any place else in anyother capacity.
(03:42):
It's how it would um they wouldthey would be rewarded in the
same way.
Um, but to choose to do it inthe hospitality realm and to do
it in relation to food andcreating food memories and
hospitality experiences, it'sreally cool.
So, yeah, that but I would sayit's always been a part of the
core values, but um, it reallyis connection to our
communities, connection to ourstaff, connection to our guests,
(04:05):
connection to the plate, um, youknow, are the things that we
really focused on.
If we wanted to say there werefour sort of impromptu pillars,
um, because the community piecehas always been huge.
We've always been, you know, abig uh and deeply involved in
charitable organizations and andfunctions.
And we've basically got aboutevery month or two um some big
event that we're doing to try toraise money for something.
(04:26):
We had Towny Fest last weekendat Post Lafayette, and we've got
High West Oyster Fest um comingup this fall, and there's just
several others that that werealways a huge feed that we do at
Post Boulder now.
It used to be a solo for theImagine Foundation, where we're
feeding, I don't know, 600, 700people for Thanksgiving dinner.
So there's there's a lot um thatwe get involved in.
(04:48):
So that's connected to.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
How does connection, I'm I'm curious about how
connected hospitality kind offlows through the organization.
Yeah, and you're talking alittle bit about it in terms of
community guest, um, but I'm I'mcurious about the leadership.
How does connected hospitalityshow up within your leadership
team kind of from that top-downorganization?
SPEAKER_04 (05:06):
Well, I think it's something that we are really
focusing on in the comingmonths, because we have this is
one way it's manifesting.
So we've got biannual reviews,right?
It's something that you just youknow do.
And um they we've had greatreview seasons and we've had
relatively rewarding reviewseasons.
And the way that we havemigrated it now is as opposed to
(05:28):
it being a performance review,it's basically a uh a get to
know you review.
It's an opportunity for thestaff to see their employees in
a different way, where we're notworried about whether or not
you're marking your tablescorrectly or whether or not
you're on time.
Like those are disciplinaryissues, those are things that
should happen every day in themoment, in the constant gentle
pressure that is leadership andmanagement and all the non-fun
(05:49):
stuff.
And so the reviews this timearound are trying to create
depth in the appreciation of whoyou are, having you be seen.
I mean, hospit hospitality is isuniversal.
We we treat our guests, we wetreat our guests rather as we
treat our staff.
You know, that's a line item inthe handbook.
And it's something that we haveto take to heart.
(06:10):
It's hospitality to everydelivery driver, it's
hospitality to every uhmaintenance worker, you know,
it's grabbing a coke for theperson that's dropping off the
linen.
Like there's all kinds of greatthings that can happen because
it's a spirit of hospitality.
And so in those reviews thatstarts at the top and rolls
down, it's more of anopportunity to say, hey, we've
got 20 minutes, 30 minutestogether.
(06:31):
I want to come out of thisknowing you better.
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Before we dive deeper into today's topic, I
want to share something that'sbeen a game changer for the
restaurant owners I work with.
You know how we've been talkingabout building stronger
foundations for your restaurant?
Well, I've taken everything Iteach my coaching clients about
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vision, and I've turned it intothree hands-on online courses.
(06:57):
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(07:19):
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It'll give you the clarity tomake better decisions for years
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You can check them out atkristinmarvin.com slash courses.
(07:40):
You can also text me directly inthe show notes.
There's a link at the top of theshow if you want a special promo
code to save an additionalamount of money on any of the
courses, including the bundle.
Now let's get back to ourconversation.
SPEAKER_04 (07:56):
I want to come out of this understanding what
burgers you up.
That will allow me as a leaderto motivate you in a different
way because everybody'sdifferent.
Um, and in the heat of thebattle, we generally don't take
that time.
So we we try to intentionally umat this time of year really
invest in that relationshipbecause that's the type of
(08:19):
curiosity, which has become ahuge buzzword for us now.
Um, the curiosity that is uhnecessary to really caretake
someone.
If you don't know them, you youyou can't help them grow and and
help them be a better version ofthemselves, which really is
leadership, is what we're allabout.
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
Yeah.
Is this a shift that you guyshave been making in your
performance reviews, or have youalways done it this way?
SPEAKER_04 (08:40):
It is a shift.
It is a shift.
So it's sort of the biannualreviews, the uh spring reviews
are more a little bit more tiedto performance, but they're
still, you know, 360.
Um, but in the fall, it's morelike, hey, we're coming out of
the busiest season, we'reinvesting in the people that are
not seasonal employees, thepeople that are sticking around
and going to be with us for awhile, and and um heading into a
(09:00):
time where you know, well, let'ssay the holidays are still
really busy, but um we caninvest a little bit more time in
the get-to-know you phase.
And you know, that that umcuriosity topic is something
that we're really diving intodeeply because you know, cure
curiosity creates connection.
If you don't ask the question,you can't get the answer.
(09:21):
You won't even know what theconcerns are.
And so, all too often,especially in some of our
workforces, which are you knowrelatively young, maybe it's
their first hospitality job, youknow, maybe they're a student
and they only need this two daysa week.
Maybe they don't necessarilyneed the money, but you know,
mom or dad said that theyabsolutely have to do this at
least a couple days, whatever,like their level of investment
might be different.
Um, but that curiosity ishumanity, you know.
(09:45):
That is, I want to know you alittle bit better, I want to
know what you need out of me, Iwant to know what you expected
about this evening, I want toknow what your preconceived
notions are, what thisexperience is supposed to be,
yeah.
Um, so that I can morph myselfjust a little bit to accommodate
you.
Um, and all too often,especially when you get into the
steps of service and things, youknow, I'm checking boxes.
(10:06):
I'm just trying to get throughthe things that I was told by my
boss, I gotta get through.
Um if we do that, we are like athird of the way there.
SPEAKER_02 (10:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (10:16):
Maybe that connection piece puts so much
more meat on the bone as to whatpeople are gonna walk out the
door and go, wow, man, that wasdifferent.
The food in those twoexperiences could be identical.
Um and they would say, Man, thefood was great.
I'd go back there.
Or man, the food was great.
And that was an absolute poormemory.
(10:38):
I'm never gonna forget thatbecause of this happened or that
happened, and there's all kindsof stories that that um equate
to that connection and the waypeople utilize restaurants as
the fabric in their lives thatwe maybe never know, and we
certainly won't ever know if wedon't ask the questions.
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
Yeah.
Where is this um where's thisfocus of curiosity coming up in
the business?
Like why is this a focus for younow?
SPEAKER_04 (11:04):
So one of the things it it partially comes out of
honestly, it's born in the stepsof service.
So um uh we have something thatwe integrate into separate steps
of service we call ping pong,right?
So you're going to ask aquestion and then your response
is going to be adjusted basedupon what their answer is.
(11:26):
And and it can be as simple aswhat do you like to drink?
It's not sitting down andsaying, Would you like anything
to drink besides water?
That's just like it's anabsolute red flag.
I know that your hair probablystood up on the back of your
neck when I said that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
Yeah, I think I threw up a little bit in my
mouth.
Yeah.
Exactly, exactly.
unknown (11:41):
Sorry.
SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
So it that that's not asking a question.
That's a statement of my effortlevel is low and don't ask me to
do anything.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (11:49):
Right.
Uh, and so asking the genuinequestion what do you like to
drink?
What is your favorite type ofbeverage?
Have you ever had X, Y, or Zbefore?
I know you're probably thinkingmargarita.
Have everybody had a ever hadmezcal before?
Like just the simple pointedquestion, oh yeah, I've had me
scaling it's absolutelyterrible.
I wouldn't dream of it.
Okay, well, now we know, right?
We have a starting point forthis conversation.
(12:10):
And so it is not a litany ofingredients that we're trying to
get to with people, which Ithink is what a lot of um
restaurants default to.
Um, you know, it's got thisbeautiful coolie and it's got
this amazing sauce, and it's gotthese potatoes, and it's got
this protein, and it's cooked inthis way, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And it's it's a cooking show,you know, that we've all learned
that presentation.
(12:31):
Ours is the why behind it.
You know, why is it somethingyou're gonna love?
What is the literally the vibeof the dish?
What is this story that's beingtold?
Oh, it's a super homey stewthat's gonna make you feel like
grandma's house, like a littlebit more embellishment and
eliciting that memory vibe asopposed to the, oh, well, I
don't know what a shoshitopepper is.
(12:51):
You know, it's like, oh, okay,well, if you ever had a roasted
green chili or, or if you'veever had, you know, just you
know, a Mexican green chili,it's not gonna be quite that,
but there's a little bit ofsweetness.
There's, you know, it's it's nota list of ingredients because
that is mechanical and that isunconnected and depends on,
which is better than it's everbeen, but depends on a certain
level of food knowledge of theguest.
Um, and if they don't have it,now they're feeling like they
(13:14):
should know it, and that's not aposition we want to put them in.
SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (13:17):
Um so it it is born out of portions of the steps of
service, but it also is born outof um something I'm focused on
um sort of as a uh a module ofmany of the work workings that I
do with our leaders, because Isort of am in uh consultation
(13:39):
role with a lot of our umleaders in the restaurants,
specific to hospitality, thingsthat we call hospitities.
So, what is the opportunity forhospitality that you can create
that connection?
Um, and many of them, you know,it's a table touch, right?
Which is again that ping pong.
Um table touches can be supermundane and uninteresting and
(14:05):
unspirited, and um really justchecking a box again.
And you get the person who comesby and puts their two fingers on
the table and says, Thanks foreverything.
Sweet hope yet.
And then they walk away and theydidn't ask the question and you
didn't give an answer and belike, Does that guy even work
here?
Yeah, I don't know who that was.
Um so you know, us trying tofind what is that in where we
(14:27):
can build that connection andhave that question asked.
And you know, one of my favoritestories of recent was a manager
who shared this with um all ofus that they went to the table
and there was a gentleman whowas wearing a t-shirt, and the
t-shirt was two stick figures,and one half of the t-shirt was
a stick figure that was all sortof jumbled, like you'd taken a
bunch of dice of stick figurebody parts and then just throw
(14:48):
it out on the table.
And then another one that was astick figure that looked proper.
And they asked, What well, whatis that all about?
And it was a t-shirt for CraigRehabilitation Hospital in
Denver, which was close to oneof the restaurants.
Um, and so you know, just thecuriosity of the question about
the t-shirt led to this story.
And he shared that his daughterhad had a brain injury and that
(15:08):
she had been in a coma for along time, and that she was in
rehabilitation at CraigHospital, but that her daughter
loved one of the dishes at therestaurants, and it had become a
big part of their family, and hewas dining by himself.
So, again, it's another hugehospitality, as we would say,
single diner often overlooked asan opportunity to make a friend,
(15:30):
make a memory, make a connectionbecause they're not there for
anything but food and food,yeah, and food.
They're not selling anything,they're not buying anything,
they're not trying to impressanybody.
So that connection is ripe.
Um, but one of her daughter'sfavorite dishes was at the
restaurant, so he shared apicture of the family gathered
around to go food from therestaurant, from the post, it
was one of the post restaurantsfrom the post.
(15:52):
Um, and just this huge smile.
And the point that he made,which really struck me, was when
you can't talk, because she wasnon-verbal at that point, when
you can't talk, you can'tcommunicate, delicious food is a
tremendous source of community,connection, and enjoyment.
It was something that theytogether could all share in.
unknown (16:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
And all of that reveal and the deepening of that
connection with that singleguest, which is how we win
person by person, was created byan innocent question about a
cool teacher.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (16:25):
That's connection.
SPEAKER_02 (16:26):
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (16:26):
That's that's where it gets born.
And that's where we have theopportunity to say this is
someone who has a story to tell.
And if I don't invite the story,they're probably never gonna
hear it.
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Yeah, I mean, I love what you're saying here about
inviting the story.
Um it's we know that more andmore people are entering the
industry with less and lessexperience.
And that moment of just slowingdown and taking a second to look
at somebody's t-shirt andrecognize that the again, this
curiosity, this moment ofcuriosity that sparks for them
(17:01):
to say, Hey, what's that allabout?
I like your t-shirt.
What is that?
How are you how are you teachingand training that among your
hourly employees today?
SPEAKER_04 (17:12):
Some of it, frankly, comes out of an allegory like
what I just shared.
You know, that's an impactfulstory that if you aren't jazzed
about the opportunity that thatcreates from a humanity
standpoint, this might not bethe gig for you.
Like that, that is the most umme, that that is a charge unlike
(17:32):
any other charge.
Um so what we're in in specificto to table touches, we're
coaching, you know, what whatare the ins?
What are the bullet points ofwhere your areas of opportunity
are?
Because some people need to belearning from a book.
Some people hear that story andthey think, well, I'm gonna ask
every person about theirt-shirt.
Yeah, that's not exactly whatwe're coaching here.
(17:52):
It's sure that's a start.
Yeah, that's one of them.
And if that works for you,that's cool, you know, but at
least you're asking thequestion, you know, at least
you're opening the the umdialogue.
And sometimes, you know, you youget shut down.
Sometimes people don't want totalk to you at all and they
don't have any interest in it.
And that's fine.
And we're gonna read that, we'regonna move on for it from it.
(18:14):
But um, you know, as we'recoaching it in regards to
specifically table touches, it'syou know, what are those ins?
You know, it can be somethingthey're wearing, it can be
something you overheard.
It's perfectly okay to revealthe fact that you're an
eavesdropper by uh profession.
You know, there's there's a lotof comedy that can be shared
with that.
Um, and I think that so often umwe get the the comment from our
(18:38):
teams, and I know this isuniversally a challenge of um,
well, yeah, no, I touched everytable because I delivered food
to that one and I cleared aspoon from that one, and I
brought the IST to that one.
And be like, no, no, no, no, no.
This is like physically touchingthe table.
That that's the guy with the twofingers who stops by and doesn't
stay.
You know, we want uh thatconnection to be deeper and
(19:01):
there has to be a meaningfulinteraction.
And I think, like I said before,it's one of those things that
does require some hip pockettraining, um, so that we're sort
of modeling that behaviorthrough our directors or in my
role.
Um, and then we're alsoaffirming the great works that
are done.
So when we hear a story likethis, that that is essentially
that Craig Hotspital story iskind of like brand lore now,
(19:24):
shared with everybody else, andthey know that story and we'll
revisit it from time to time.
Um, because it illustratesexactly the power of what a tiny
little step will be.
You know, we you talk about Ithink curiosity invitations are
two really important pieces.
And um, you know, the importantto accept an invitation when you
(19:45):
receive it.
Um there's nobody that's invitedto something that doesn't feel
better about themselves becausethey were invited.
Thank you so much for theinvitation.
I mean, any of the parties orsocial gatherings or or
invitations to a podcast, liketo to have the invite it.
Makes the person who's beinginvited feel great.
And so we try to inject that toointo something as simple as a
(20:09):
phone call when a guest callsthe restaurant.
If that person gets off thephone and we haven't invited
them to make a reservation, thatmight not be their purpose.
But if we haven't extended thatinvitation, we are missing huge.
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:21):
Hey, I'm checking to see if you have any specials.
Hey, I'm wondering if you guyshave a burger on the menu.
You know, nobody calls therestaurant with those kinds of
questions anymore, but ifthey're calling the restaurant,
they probably don't have opentable on their phone.
unknown (20:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (20:33):
And so as soon as we get them on the horn, can I make
a reservation for you tomorrownight?
I would love to make yourreservation for you tomorrow
night.
Can I invite you to join ustomorrow night?
Or are you thinking abouttonight?
What night are you thinking?
So if we get off the phonewithout offering that invitation
of a reservation, um, we'remissing.
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
I I agree 110%.
I don't call a lot ofrestaurants anymore, but I kind
of want to now, just for fun tosee who is willing to extend
that invitation.
I I call, I well, I won't tellthe story, but I the last
restaurant I called it wasawful.
Um I had to pull every piece ofinformation out of the person I
was on the phone with, um, whichwas just really torturous.
unknown (21:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (21:10):
Which speaks to that attitude of curiosity.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
100%.
Yeah, this person wasn't curiousabout anything.
unknown (21:16):
Nothing.
SPEAKER_04 (21:16):
I'm curious about getting off the phone.
SPEAKER_00 (21:18):
Getting off the phone.
Yeah.
Didn't that person did not seeme as a guest?
unknown (21:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
They saw me as somebody who was interrupting
what they were doing during theshift.
SPEAKER_04 (21:26):
Which was probably rolling silverware or something
that something really was notthat important.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
Yeah.
How are you identifying thatcuriosity, that willingness to
to give an invitation, thatconnected hospitality?
How are you identifying that incandidates during the interview
process?
SPEAKER_04 (21:42):
That's a great question.
Um so one of our key tools thereis uh interview guide.
Um, and we've honed that alittle bit over the years, but
the the initial um question iswhy hospitality?
Why are you in hospitality?
Why is this your drive?
Why is this your choice?
And we refuse to let the res uh,I'm sorry, the interview go
(22:05):
beyond that question if wearen't satisfied with the answer
to that question.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_04 (22:09):
Because the, you know, the three most common
responses that you get are themoney is good.
I like the flexible schedule,and it's what I've always done.
Those are three non-starters forus.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
Okay.
And tell me, tell me whathappens if somebody gives that
one of those answers.
SPEAKER_04 (22:23):
So the ideal is if somebody said, well, the
response should be uh the moneyis flexible.
I'm sorry, the money's good,schedule flexible, it's what
I've always done.
Well, um, you deserve to be wellcompensated in whatever you
choose to do.
And so I'm gonna assume whateverjob you work in, the money's
gonna be good.
Your schedule has to fit yourlife, and it has to fit your
life inside and outside ofwhatever your employment choice
(22:44):
is.
And having done something for along time doesn't necessarily
mean you're really good at it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (22:49):
So we reflect it back and say, okay, what
hospitality.
Well, I really like people.
That's the other one that youhear a lot.
I really like working withpeople.
So, okay, well, you can workwith people at Barnes and Noble,
you can work with people athospital, you can work with
people um at Costco, you know,wherever you want to work,
there's there's peopleeverywhere.
Why hospitality?
And if they can't get there, ourneeds and your focuses aren't
(23:11):
necessarily aligned.
Thanks so much for joining us.
If there isn't some sort ofpassion in there, yeah, of I
love creating memories throughfood, I love whiskey, and I love
tequila, and I love sharing myloves with other people.
If there isn't this idea of Ihave a passion for the subject
matter, which you would requirein any role, right?
(23:33):
Like if you're a lawyer, youlove to read a lot, right?
Like it's just seeing thoselibraries, right?
Um, if you don't love to read,you're not gonna be a lawyer,
amongst other things.
But if you don't love food, ifyou don't love drink, if you
don't love the idea of creatinga hospitality-based memory, then
you're not for us.
And so we try to weed that outat the start.
(23:54):
And there's not a lot of peoplethat are able to fake that.
Um, you know, and so that's thethe first sort of steps, you
know.
We're and we're looking for uhsocial cues that would indicate
that you love it.
Level of smile, level of eyecontact, um, you know, what are
some of those physical bodylanguages?
(24:15):
Um, and then we will do inselect situations sort of uh uh
impromptu exercise.
If we get through the theinterview, we get to the end of
it, and it's like, you know, itmight be last night's special on
a little sheet of paper.
And I'm gonna give this to you,and I want you to take two or
three minutes um to study that.
And I want you to come and greetthe table and greet the table as
(24:36):
if you're my server.
And generally we see tworesponses to that excitement or
trepidation.
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:43):
The excitement is, oh, sweet, yes, because they've
done that, they know that.
This is not a speed bump.
I'm not requiring you to dosomething that's uncomfortable
at all if you've done it somuch.
Um, or it's like, I don't knowwhat these ingredients are, and
I don't know what your steps ofservice are, and I don't know
any of this, that, or the other.
And like, okay, this is youmight make it, but that's not
what I'm hunting for.
SPEAKER_00 (25:02):
You're not curious.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (25:03):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (25:04):
You you aren't willing to dive because this is
a especially in this is I'mspeaking almost specifically of
um like front of house roleshere, but in in this last
example.
Um, but if if you havetrepidation about greeting a
table, what are we talkingabout?
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
Right.
Like you you're you're you'remaybe support staff a bowl, but
you've got to be curious aboutpeople.
SPEAKER_04 (25:27):
You've got to be fascinated about asking, you
know, you're the person at thegrocery store.
I can think of a guy at my localgrocery store, Will, you know,
friendliest guy on the planet.
How's your day today?
How things going?
Yeah, I thought this.
I mean, and he does it every 16minutes, right?
Or three and a half minutes.
And it's the same thing.
It's awesome because he'sinterested in people.
(25:48):
He's not bored with it becausehe's excited about the response.
SPEAKER_00 (25:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (25:52):
The response drives his energy.
SPEAKER_00 (25:53):
Yeah, I just had this funny visual of somebody
buying a car just to go sit init, but they're never gonna
drive it.
Like, okay, I'm all excitedabout this car.
Okay, and I'm never, you know,then I'm not gonna take it
anywhere.
I'm not gonna go enjoy theexperience.
Um, how do you I'm fascinated bylove that you're using the
interview guide.
Sounds like your interviewpractices are very aligned with
(26:13):
your core values.
Um, I am fascinated by howquickly you're identifying if
somebody is a fit or not.
And then, and then so I'massuming what in the matter of
five minutes or 10 minutes, youcan say, nope, thank you so much
for coming in.
We're you know this isn't thisisn't a fit.
(26:34):
We, you know, we wish you allthe best.
So that that and that candidateknows when they walk out the
door that that's it, they're notgonna get hired.
They're not waiting for a callback.
SPEAKER_04 (26:42):
Correct.
SPEAKER_00 (26:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:43):
I mean, we're we're trying to, I mean, some of this
was born out of um it reallyexisted before COVID because the
hiring situation before COVIDwas so intense.
Totally.
It was like, look, I gotta hireon the spot.
Like, yeah, you well, for us, itwas more like the competition
was so high because there wereso many restaurants opening,
especially in Denver market.
SPEAKER_03 (27:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (27:05):
That we were realizing like if we do a first
interview and try to callsomebody back for a second
interview, they're gonna behired by somebody else who
hasn't vetted them.
SPEAKER_02 (27:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (27:13):
But they're gonna hire them just because they have
a beat heartbeat.
So if they have a heartbeat,great.
If they aren't our fit, thenlet's send them on their way
with a release so that they knowit's not gonna be us.
And we're excited about the factthat it's not us because we know
it's not right.
SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (27:26):
But we had seen so often, especially our younger
and less experienced managers,you know, of which we have fewer
now, we're proud to say, um,that they would spend 30 minutes
sitting with somebody and thenhiring them simply because they
kind of talked themselves intoit over those 30 minutes, be
like, well, I spent 30 minuteswith this person, I should
(27:47):
probably hire them.
SPEAKER_00 (27:47):
Totally.
SPEAKER_04 (27:48):
Um, as opposed to taking the objective assessment
of the data that they got, whichis the other thing that the
interview guides help us with.
Now we're now we have apples andapples.
Now I have a set of three orfour people, or I've done this
enough times with the same setof questions that I have a data
set that is comparable.
SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
As opposed to I'm speaking to you and I'm thinking
more about what's my nextquestion than I am listening to
your responses and logging overmy history of interviews where
those responses live related tosuccess that I've seen.
Um, and so hopefully, you know,if they uh leave the restaurant
(28:27):
and are told the why, um theyleave actually better.
That six or eight minutes thatthey invested with us, if it's
truly that short, like I canthink of one that we did, and it
ended up being a great trainingscenario because I was
conducting the interview with acouple of new managers.
Um, and the gentleman had comein and he had a decent looking
resume from Mountain Towns.
(28:49):
Um, but then the resume hebrought to the interview wasn't
the resume that was online.
It had a bunch of uh real estateand financial services.
Um, and we asked those questionsand we got the three bad
responses about hospitality.
And then I specifically said Iwas like, I see your resume
here.
This isn't the one that we hadon the online application.
(29:11):
Is there a reason you broughtthis one?
And he said, Well, yeah, I justdidn't have a printer and I
didn't have the time.
And I said, You recognize thatyou're you know you're applying
for a hospitality position.
SPEAKER_01 (29:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
This really doesn't feel like the level of
investment that we're lookingfor, and we would expect you to
be invested in hospitality ifthat's where you want to be.
If you want to be in banking,that's where you should bring
this resume.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (29:30):
Um, thanks so much.
Wish you the best of luck.
Feedback grew out of that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
Totally.
Hey there, podcast friends.
I hope you're enjoying theseimpactful conversations and
leadership insights I'm bringingyou each week.
Before we dive back into today'sepisode, I want to take a moment
and reach out and ask a smallfavor that would go a long way
in supporting the show.
If you've been loving thecontent I'm providing, please
take a moment to leave a ratingand review wherever you listen
(29:58):
to your podcast.
Not only does it make my day,but it also plays a pivotal role
in helping the show grow.
Your reviews boost myvisibility, attract new
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the mic.
So if you want to be part of myshow's growth journey, hit that
review button and let me knowwhat you think.
(30:20):
Thanks a million for beingawesome listeners.
Are you what is the uh I'mcurious I'm I'm so curious about
so many things, but um I wasgonna ask you how you get your
managers comfortable with withbeing able to cut it short and
not spend the 30 minutes becausethey feel bad for somebody or
they feel bad that they took allthis time to get dressed up and
(30:42):
bring in their resume, and theyprobably know that they're
nervous and they're trying toconnect, but it sounds like the
interview guide is the tool thatjust helps them get there.
SPEAKER_04 (30:50):
The tool helps them get there.
Some of the um satellitematerials that go with the
interview guide as well speak tothis is the preservation of your
own time, right?
Yeah.
You you don't want to waste,we're looking at time management
here.
Totally.
So a lot of times in theinterview training, um, in one
of the key modules that I workwith with our managers, it's
(31:11):
about time management.
And you need to schedulespecific times during the week
where you are going to be doinginterviews, and the whole team
knows you're going to be doinginterviews, and they can relate
that to people that are walkingthrough the door with a resume,
they're like, Yeah, come back atthree o'clock on Thursday, and
just make that a prioritybecause if we're always hearing,
we're never behind, nevermissing out on super high
quality people.
(31:32):
Um and and if you are in theregular habit of it, then you're
able to hone those practices.
But the the real it's kind oflike the table touch, you have
to have that aha moment whereyou're able to say, because you
you have a self-belief and youhave a conviction in what you
will and won't accept, and youknow that this person's
behaviors are something youwon't accept.
(31:54):
And so you let them know, youknow.
I mean, shoot, it might even bewe've had interviews where it
just goes to a really dark placeand they use a word or a phrase
that's unacceptable, and we say,Hey, I gotta stop you right
there.
Like the phrase that you justused, that's not aligned with
our company culture.
And and if that's the way youfeel about hospitality, then uh
we're just gonna uh respectfullysay no, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (32:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:14):
And know that the managers know that they have the
right to do that and that it isthe correct thing to do in that
instant moment.
So so really it's an emboldeningof the managers to say,
sometimes it shouldn't come as asurprise, but you're the boss.
Yeah, you get to decide who getsentrance to your team, who you
(32:36):
allow through the gate.
Yeah, because once you hirethem, they're yours.
SPEAKER_02 (32:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:41):
You know, and now we gotta work on developing and
training.
And so who do you want to investthat time in?
Who do you want to spend thetime getting to know well?
And you it will be more excitingto do it when somebody in that
interview, you're walking out ofit being like, oh heck yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:54):
I just met this woman, Sarah, and she is a rock
star.
And when we hear that and seethat, it generally pans out to
be true.
SPEAKER_00 (33:01):
I wish I would have had that verbiage that you just
used of like, I'm gonna stop youright there.
This just does not align withus.
I had is just totally took meback to when I was, oh gosh, I
don't know, fift 15 years ago orso.
I had a um an interview with abarista friend of all the staff.
She should have been, shouldhave been a shoe-in, right?
(33:22):
Coming in.
I was a new manager coming in,and this person came to the
interview, was had a greatexperience, you know, high
volume, a lot of hospitality,and dropped an F-bomb during the
interview.
And I and I I went my went onwith the interview.
Again, I wanted to give thatperson the time because they
were a staff, you know, friend.
And the staff was so pissed offat me when uh when I told them
(33:45):
that we weren't gonna bring thatperson on because they dropped
an F bomb during the interview.
And I and but I didn't, I didit.
They looked at me like I was thevillain.
Um instead of me holding it tothis is just not acceptable as a
company.
We are a breakfast restaurant,we don't need people dropping
F-bombs at our tables.
SPEAKER_04 (34:05):
So especially when you don't know anything as the
employee or the the candidate,right?
What is the company culture?
What is the expectation?
Like that's taking tremendousrisk, and with risk, you know,
there's a chance that it's notgoing to be a reward.
And yeah, you know, that's agreat opportunity for that
manager, you know, when thestaff is like, I can't believe
(34:25):
you didn't hire him because heused an F-bomb.
I'd be like, Well, I wouldn'thave hired you if you use an F
bomb.
Yeah, I won't hire anybody thatthey just lash out an F bomb in
the midst of it because if thatperson is already that
comfortable in that role becauseof their relationship with you,
they will only see worsebehaviors.
SPEAKER_00 (34:41):
Totally.
And I I liked that they werecomfortable, but not that
comfortable.
Yeah, not that comfortable.
Yeah, they they thought it was ashoe.
Oh, I love it.
What do you see um from the whenyou turn away the candidates
that that are not a fit?
Yeah, I loved your perspectiveof like, hey, we're doing
something to help them grow.
I don't know if a lot of themsee it that way or not when
(35:02):
they're rejected.
SPEAKER_01 (35:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:04):
But do you find that they they come back as guests or
do they ever reapply?
Or are they what's the reaction?
SPEAKER_04 (35:12):
Uh I would say more often than not, they're if we
phrase it right, they'reappreciative.
Um, you know, some get up fromthe table mad and walk away.
And in that case, we really knowwe're right.
SPEAKER_00 (35:27):
Yeah, totally right.
SPEAKER_04 (35:28):
Like that's just if if they blow up and be like,
this is blah, blah, blah.
You know, this is like, well,you have just affirmed exactly
all the attitudes that I didn'twant to add to my team.
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (35:35):
Um, but we have had people that have reapplied, um,
especially in the manager rankswhen we're able to give them
feedback, you know, this issomething that we're not looking
for for this position, and thenthey'll see another position
available, like, hey, I appliedfor this and you told me that.
So I thought maybe this would bea better fit.
Like, hey, I agree, and let'stalk.
So, yeah, it's you you can'tcontrol how people are going to
react, but you got to stick toyour guns and decide what you're
(36:01):
willing to put up with and whatgets you excited.
And um, you know, it it's it'sreally um we're there is a
hiring for a specificattitudinal fit that's really
hard to measure, right?
It's it's kind of like art, youknow, it's different for
everybody, and you look at it onthe wall, and for some people
(36:22):
like that's just a gobbled mess.
And then other people be like,it gives them chills, yeah.
Right.
And so there's aspects of thatwith the fit that you can just
feel in hospitality.
And yes, some of it is bodylanguage and its posture and its
confidence, and it's you know,their their speed of of response
and whether or not they'resmiling, whether or not they're
easy in their own skin, and youknow, it's a lot of those
things.
(36:43):
Um, and and some of it has toplay out over time, um, and you
can't assess that in theinterview.
Um, but I think that that whenyou're able to give feedback, it
helps you hone your ownparameters as to what excellence
(37:05):
is continually, right?
Because it's like um the tediousrepetition of the simplest
movements is what make yougreat, right?
Yeah, and so all of these tinylittle things or constant gentle
pressure, however you want tosay it, uh, you know, that's why
I'm I'm not personally abeliever in um I think we talked
about this.
This is one of my littlemantras.
(37:26):
Um, I don't believe inmicromanagement, I don't think
it exists.
Yeah, I think it is a phraseused by those who don't like to
be managed because the littlethings matter, they're
important.
Yeah, all the little things.
And if you're doing all thelittle things right, then we're
not gonna manage those anymore.
If I'm telling you to do thingsthat are unimportant, untimely,
or you know, not relevant,that's bad management.
(37:48):
That's not micromanagement,that's not that's me having
improper focus, or that's me notunderstanding my um uh the
player on the team or the seatin the bus that they're on.
Um, but the little things allmatter.
And so if we're managing thoseand being communicative about
those and giving the feedback onthose, we're honing for
(38:10):
ourselves what our ownexpectation is and then honing
for the team what excellencelooks like.
SPEAKER_00 (38:13):
I love it.
I love that you're you'reoffering that little sample of
connected hospitality in theinterview process.
You know, I've always believedthat um the candidates that are
coming in, your doors areguests, right?
You you have you have anopportunity to to, or when we
let somebody go, you know,promote him to a guest, right?
SPEAKER_04 (38:31):
Sure, exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and I mean, uh, this isthe the dark side of things, but
in a disciplinary process, ifsomebody is exiting our ranks by
our own choice and they don'thave great intel as to why, it's
not us.
Yeah, it's awful.
Yeah, that's that's sounacceptable.
That's just at wheel state,whatever you'll say, like it's
(38:53):
not quote unquote illegal, it'sjust bad business.
SPEAKER_02 (38:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (38:57):
And it's bad leadership, and it's bad
coaching because everybodydeserves the opportunity to be
their best self.
That's our job as leaders, youknow, and with the assumption of
positive intent, you know, thatgets called a lot of different
things.
But you know, our my myassumption is that you're doing
your best possible job that youcan do on this podcast.
And I think you're doing anawesome job.
And and this is as good, this iswill get better, you know, over
(39:21):
time in any one thing.
But you, as my teammate, if I'ma server and you're a server and
you're having an off day, butI'm gonna assume that you're
doing the best that you possiblycan, I'm gonna do whatever I can
to lift you up, and then I'mgonna do better myself.
Like living in that space, we'vegot to own that as leaders in
any coaching scenario.
And if we've given a billionreminders or three sets of of
(39:41):
written warnings or just onestern reminder that this is not
okay, and then they still can'tshape it up, then yeah, we're
we're gonna make a change, butthey're gonna know why and
they're gonna leave.
And they're honestly um not togo all radical candor on you,
but they're they're they'regonna know we care.
SPEAKER_02 (39:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (40:00):
They're going to know that we're feeling uh that
we are wanting to feel connectedto them.
We are wanting them tounderstand the why behind
everything that we do.
Yeah.
And sometimes that why is whyyou don't work here anymore.
Other times, more often thannot, that why is um because it
makes a spectacular lifelongmemory for a guest.
And because the people that whohave decided to pull on our door
(40:22):
deserve to have a memorableexperience.
SPEAKER_00 (40:25):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, I think so much of whatwe do on a day-to-day basis with
running businesses is aboutmanaging risk.
And I think, right, whether it'sa server making the choice to
touch a table or not touch atable, right?
There's risk to both things.
And I think the risk is, youknow, they're they're unhappy
and then I've got to move intoaction or or spend more time
with them or whatever.
And the risk of not touching thetable is that you miss an
(40:46):
opportunity.
Right.
And I think with a lot of ownersand operators, I think that
people don't necessarilyunderstand the importance of
managing their reputation andthe risk that they take when
they choose to let somebody goprematurely.
And and in in this market, it'sit's never been harder to find
(41:08):
great people.
And so love that you're offeringthat hospitality on the way out
the door.
That's great.
SPEAKER_04 (41:13):
Well, and that comment you made really struck
me, you know, the the risk ofnot asking the question.
That's curiosity, right?
The risk of not checking withthe guests.
And yes, as a server, is thefear of unknown worse than
whatever their complaint mightbe?
SPEAKER_02 (41:32):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (41:33):
I I would say yes.
Like I don't think they had avery good time, and I feel like
that so I can relate a personalpoint on that.
Uh, and some of my team wouldlove this.
I got a one-star review on Yelp.
Personally, I crushed it.
There was a table during a superbusy night at one of our
restaurants.
They came in super late for thereservation.
They were a party of 12, butthey booked as three parties of
(41:56):
four.
And then once they got there,they all wanted to sit together.
And so it was already embattledat the start.
SPEAKER_01 (42:01):
Sure.
SPEAKER_04 (42:01):
And I feel like I'm relatively graceful at the
table, and we needed to turn thetable, and we made all kinds of
offers, and they were kind ofwaning in the time.
And I had great rapport with thetable, but there was one couple
at the table, group of family,and people were in from all over
town.
I want to say it was it mighthave been graduation last year.
Um, and I could tell when theyleft the table, I was like, Oh,
(42:24):
I might be in trouble with them.
And I spoke to them and Iapologized to them, and we and
then 16 hours later, boom, onestar review on Yelp.
Manager forced us to leave thetable, like just all of this mud
slinging, which was theirperception and was their truth,
yeah, and 100% bought into it.
(42:44):
And as soon as I read it, I waslike, that's this guy.
Um, and so I sent a message tothe team, and I was like, what a
great learning experience.
You're not gonna nail all ofthem.
Yeah, you we we don't ever wantto try to relocate a table that
is always fraught with issue,and it's a high-risk scenario.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
Totally.
SPEAKER_04 (43:02):
Um, and you're measuring, you know, future
guests versus you know departingguests, so there's no good
answers there.
And and you can obviously, in somany instances, do nothing
wrong, but not do everythingright.
unknown (43:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (43:18):
And that was one of those great lessons.
Like I had to do 16 times over,I might behave exactly the same
way, and the outcome might bedifferent.
But because I'm listening tothat feedback, because I have
the realization of how that oneended, I will never do that same
thing again.
I will grow from it, I will bebetter.
And so it was a great kind oflike reflective moment.
(43:40):
And then honestly, two weeks agoat one of these manager
meetings, the GM brought it upagain.
It was a sweet sting.
And she was like, Well, at leastwe don't have to worry about
many more one stars from Adam.
And I was like, Oh, I completelyrepressed it and forgotten all
about it.
But being able to have thathumility and receive that
feedback and and and showcaselike nobody's perfect.
It's not the mistakes you make,it's how you react, it's how you
(44:01):
grow, it's how you remedy, youknow, it's true in sports.
You know, you get beat on aplay, what's your next play
gonna look like?
It's it's true in business, it'strue in relationships, you know.
How are you gonna make it up?
And how are you gonna grow andimprove?
SPEAKER_00 (44:12):
I love it.
How last question for you, andthen I'll let you enjoy your
day.
Um I'm already enjoying it.
How are you how are you keepingconnected hospitality top of
mind for you so that it cancontinue to thrive through the
organization?
SPEAKER_01 (44:26):
Um I think the the same that one's easy.
SPEAKER_04 (44:32):
The same energy that uh a manager can get from the
connection they build with ateammate or the connection they
can build with a guest is thesame energy that I get from a
manager realizing the energythey get, right?
I don't know if I said thatwell, but basically their their
(44:54):
growth and their development andthem coming back and being like,
so for instance, we had a uhsecret shop in one of our
restaurants three, four weeksago, and a manager that I've
been working with, nottremendously, but we've plugged
in some of these um table touchmodalities, and we've talked
about the connected service, andshe's we've
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