January 5, 2026 • 47 mins
We coach Brandon Sharp, owner of three restaurants in Chapel Hill, through the tension between being everywhere at once and showing up with presence that develops his leaders. He realizes he must let go of covering shifts, codify decision rights, and model vulnerability to retain and grow his managers.
• using presence as respect and a path to flow
• inverted pyramid leadership and decision rights
• outsourcing low-leverage tasks to regain focus
• vulnerability that invites ownership and honesty
• raising standards for long-tenured managers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Have you ever found yourself in a position as a
restaurant owner where you'rebeing pulled in so many
different directions that youfeel like you don't have control
and choice over where you spendyour time and your energy and
how to get in your flow state?
Today I'm doing a coachingsession with Brandon Sharp,
who's the owner of threerestaurants in Chapel Hill:
Hawthorne and Wood, Bluebird,and Proximo.
(00:30):
And we spend a significantamount of time diving into
Brandon's concern about how tostay present in the moment with
his team, with his ownleadership, and at home when
things are so chaotic and he'sbeing pulled in so many
different directions.
We talk about his need anddesire and pressure to know
(00:53):
exactly what questions to askhis staff and to make sure that
he has the right answers to thebig important questions that are
moving the business forward.
We also take a deep look intowhat his current structure looks
like and what's potentiallymissing in that structure in
order to move the organizationforward.
And in the end, he comes to areally powerful realization of
(01:13):
something that he needs to letgo of in order to move himself
forward and stay in his happyplace and continue to develop
his team and retain hislong-tenured managers.
Hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to the RestaurantLeadership Podcast, where we
coach independent, multi-unitrestaurant operators to build
(01:36):
systems that drive profitabilityand reclaim time so they can
scale with confidence and spendtheir time and energy where they
want to, not where they have to.
I'm your host, Kristen Marvin,restaurant coach and author of
Multi-unit Mastery.
If you are an independentrestaurant owner managing
multiple locations, you know thechaos that comes with growth.
(02:01):
Inconsistent execution acrossyour restaurants.
Managers who won't takeownership.
Constantly answering questionsyour team should already know
the answers to.
You're stuck in your currentrole when you want to be playing
a bigger strategic role as youscale.
You don't have the right leadersin place or you keep losing
(02:21):
them.
And you're not sure how to findgreat people and actually keep
them around.
We work with passionateindependent restaurant owners
who found success with theirfirst few locations and are
ready to scale strategically.
Our clients aren't looking tojust survive expansion.
They want to thrive through it.
They're committed to developingstrong leaders and creating
(02:44):
exceptional guest experiences.
Through the independentrestaurant framework that we
teach in multi-unit mastery, wecoach independent restaurant
groups to move from chaos toconfidence by focusing on three
pillars (02:56):
people, process, and profit.
You can grab a gifted copy ofthe book at irfbook.com.
On this show, we bring you realcoaching conversations,
leadership strategies, and theframeworks that you need to lead
like a CEO instead of operatinglike a worn-out manager.
And here's the thing (03:16):
coaching has changed our clients'
businesses and can change yourstoo.
If you've never experienced whatit's like to have someone in
your corner who actually getsthe restaurant world, we'd love
to connect.
We offer one-on-one and groupcoaching.
Head to kristenmarvin.com slashcontact for a complimentary
(03:38):
coaching session and let's talkabout what's possible for your
restaurant group.
Brandon, how can I make this anextraordinary conversation for
you today?
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
If I can leave it with both good questions to ask
myself and also some answers,like I don't expect to come away
with it with answers because Ithink that this is going to be a
month-long and years-long andhopefully career-long project
for me of figuring things out,my career, my opportunities,
(04:15):
this company evolving.
Um, but I I I want to know whatare the right questions to be
asking myself along the waybecause the things that swirl
inside my head day to day,should I have a routine?
Should I not have a routine?
How available should I makemyself?
Like all the all these littlethings um really, I think, slow
(04:36):
me down and keep me from beingpresent with the person that's
in front of me, with the guestor the cooks or or whatever
that's in front of me at themoment.
SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
So it sounds like you're asking yourself a lot of
questions, but you're not quitesure if they're the right ones
or not.
SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
Yes.
I don't know if I'm asking theright questions.
I don't know if I'm asking umthe, yes, yeah.
That's yeah, that I have I havea lot of questions.
And I and I'm aware of the factthat if I stop making decisions,
then I hold up everyone else'sjob.
Like they depend on me for quickdecisions.
And most of the time they'renot, you know, life-changing,
(05:11):
earth-shattering, you know, hugedecisions, but they're little
ones that need to be made.
You know, should we cut offreservations at 159 or should or
should we keep going?
And um, you know, they're askingme for different reasons.
Sometimes, you know, usually asthe owner, you or I only get the
the questions that and theissues that are really hard and
(05:34):
no one else wants to deal with.
Um, everyone in the organizationis pretty well aware of what
their category of decisions are,you know, what they're what what
they're allowed, whether they'reallowed to hire and fire people
or create specials or change themenu or you know, whatever it is
on those on those levels.
So um it's a it's a it's aconstantly ongoing process.
(05:55):
And as our company has really,you know, thankfully, uh
continued to evolve, continue toexpand, and yeah, I'm I'm always
uh what's the I always feel likeI'm learning to fly while
falling.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Sorry, my dog chef is barking to close the door.
What's important to you aboutbeing really present in the
moment?
SPEAKER_03 (06:27):
For me, looking inward, that's when things slow
down and there's at least thechance for a flow state.
And that I used to feel thatrelatively often when I was
working on the line, you know,and I'm really focused on just
the equipment, the ingredients,using all five senses, which I
which is my favorite thing aboutworking in kitchens, and being
(06:51):
part of a team.
And you can just get into a flowstate.
That is, and so now selfishly,that's almost impossible.
Um, you know, skipping from onerestaurant to another, one
meeting to another.
Um, but that but that's allthat's all personal.
Externally, what's importantabout being present is that it
shows the other person therespect that they have my um
(07:14):
undivided attention and thatthat I'm only like and I know
that we will both get the bestout of whatever situation,
whether it's an interview or ameeting about a new project, or
just a one-on-one, if they havemy full attention.
So, you know, ringer turned off,hopefully, phone is out of the
(07:35):
room.
I'm just there with my notebookand a pen, listening to them,
asking them questions.
And um, um, and yeah, and and Ireally try, you know, I start
with the coaching technique inthese one-on-ones of what's on
your mind.
And then I just, what else, whatelse, what else, what else?
Until, you know, they don'trealize that it is eventually
(07:56):
making them a littleuncomfortable, but not
uncomfortable in in the thatthey're squirming um or that
they're really being put on thespot, but they're just really
telling me things that that theymay not have come into the
conversation wanting to tell me,but that that we need to talk
about because, you know, theyare my general manager or they
are my executive chef at thisrestaurant.
So that's what that's that's whyI think it's important to be
(08:17):
present those two on those twothose two phases.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
What's the impact of that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
You're doing something to me right now, and
I'm not sure what it is, but Iknow something's being done to
me.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Um I'm just asking the question.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Um So where things so the positive impact is a man,
it's it's this is kind of anegative way to put it.
The positive impact is reallyjust the tip of the iceberg that
we that we continue to havegood, open, honest communication
so that when there is an issue,it's not a me yelling, it
(08:58):
doesn't it's not me yelling andscreaming WTF, and it doesn't
feel like me yelling andscreaming WTF.
We both have a solid frame ofreference with how to
communicate with one another.
So that's the positive part ofit.
The negative part of not um nothaving those interactions and
not is that you know uh lack ofcommunication leads to um you
know fear and distrust anddislike and and then um you know
(09:23):
um well I mean hatredeventually, but um, but yeah,
and and resentment.
So resentment builds when to mewhen when when when
communication with my managersbreaks down.
And it's all and it's always Iit is always my fault.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
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(10:31):
business.
The clock is ticking.
Do you feel like when you arereally present with your
managers, you are in a positionwhere you are able to know
exactly what questions to askand you're asking the right
questions and you're getting theanswers that you want or that
you need to move the businessforward.
SPEAKER_03 (10:56):
Yes, but I don't necessarily think it's from
asking the right questionsbecause a lot of the tactical
questions, procedural orpersonnel questions will usually
be asked via email after readinga shift recap or something like
(11:21):
that.
The ones that that I get themost out of are the the
open-ended ones of what's onyour mind, what else and what
else.
And and because that's whenthat's when things get uncovered
that they may not even know thatare bothering them, um, but that
we can tease out.
And that's when it really comes,I think that's when the
(11:42):
coachable moments really comebecause a lot of times they 99%
of the time, the managers andchefs will do the right thing.
They know the right thing to do,and they would do it if I was
there or not, asking me maybe asecurity blanket, a safety net,
a formality, something likethat.
But, you know, I I heard heardthis the other day, and and um,
(12:03):
you know, it sounds kind ofnegative, but it's you know, uh
if I were to ask them, okay,pretend I'm not here, what would
you do then?
And they would do the samething.
They would do the right thingthat I would you know end up
recommending to them anyway.
So um I'm trying to get betterabout not needing to seem smart
or look smart or sound smart tothem by proving that I know the
(12:23):
answer or affirming that that Iknow the answer, but trying a
gentler way than that of youknow turning it around to them
and really giving them the umthe initiative and the
opportunity to um to do itthemselves.
It's it's very hard.
When the so, for instance, lastweekend we had a we Clemson was
(12:44):
coming to town to play UNC.
Restaurants were were packed,um, days were booked out days in
advance, and the the reservationline here at Bluebird was
hovering around 150, and we knowwe're gonna get another 50
walk-ins, and and 200 is when wereally start to get the speed
wobble here, and things start tobreak down.
And so general manager asked mevia email and copied the chef
(13:04):
and the director of operationsshould we shut off reservations?
I said, well, one, why don't youtwo decide what you're capable
of?
Look at your schedule, look atyour personnel, you know, look
at the pattern that thereservations are gonna come in
on, and you guys decide.
I trust you to do what is bestfor your crew and for the
business.
(13:25):
Or two, set the line at 150.
When it goes above that, togglereservations off on Resi.
When it goes below that, togglethem back on, let the
reservationists know.
You know, so and it was kind offelt bad about sending it
because I I gave them theopportunity to do it yourself,
but then I also kind of gavethem the answer and I didn't
(13:47):
know which was the right one todo, so I did both.
So I kind of kind of copped outon that one, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
Yeah.
What are you noticing whenyou're saying that?
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Um still stuck.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
I'm still stuck between being able to drift
above the business and just workon the business and being in the
business and still you know,wanting and needing to pull some
strings.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
What's that perspective look like for you
right now, being in the businessand being stuck?
What's that feel like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
Makes me a little resentful at times, um, but it's
a very short leap for me torealize that it's all my own.
Nobody made me do this.
Nobody's not not only is no oneholding a gun to my head, like
people help me get thisopportunity, you know.
And I read the other day thatyou should be grateful for the
(15:02):
ability to work hard at thethings that you've always
dreamed of doing, which isexactly what I get to do, you
know, every day.
But this morning, like I washere early working on um
everything pretzel roll that Iwant to do for a smoked salmon
um special here at Bluebird forbrunch this weekend.
And so that gave me immensesatisfaction.
And not only is baking the mostsatisfying type of cooking to do
(15:24):
um in a lot of ways, um, I justbeing in an empty kitchen,
getting to touch and feel andand and taste the food is
something that I that I missdearly.
But that's what I am pretty sureI need to get myself out of
doing so that others can dothat.
(15:46):
And so again, so that I can workon the business instead of in
the business.
So the question was, how does itfeel to how do it feel to be in
the business?
Yeah, so a little, so uh yeah, alittle resentment, but um but
that resentment doesn't have aface, you know.
I it just made and I just wantto like stupid, stupid, stupid.
(16:06):
Like that's how it makes mefeel.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Yeah, I mean it your energy completely shifted when
you were talking about beingback in the kitchen and being in
that that flow state of and andI saw you and your energy be
able to slow down and justreally be present then of
getting back to what you trulylove and why you started in this
industry of being able to createand and yes, do a little bit on
(16:28):
your own, but just but justcreate that space for yourself
to be able to grow and innovateand create and do something
different.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
Yeah.
I wonder there's freedom ofchoice in that moment, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
You're not being pulled into something that you
have to do, or you're not, youknow, you're not being
distracted by questions orhaving to seek the right answer.
You're just in your happy place,you're in your flow state,
you're being able to do what youwant to do in that space that
you've created.
What's the impact of that?
SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Well, I when when I when I talk to my kids, so I've
got I've got three kids, 17, 15,and 12.
And so when I you know, they'reold enough to to understand
pretty um intricate and and andum involved concepts.
And so when I you know, mostpeople, not not it's I won't
(17:34):
even start there.
I want my to say that I want mykids to be happy when they grow
up is you know, that that onedoesn't compete.
Of course I want them to behappy when they grow up.
I think for um a lot of peoplewho are in our circumstances of
you know Western culture in theUSA in the 21st century, like
for a lot of us, we're we'relucky enough that happiness can
(17:55):
be a choice, at least a certainswitch that you can turn on and
off.
But I what what I tell them is,you know, I don't want you to
work hard in high school so thatyou can get into a good college,
so that you can have X job.
I want you to work hard in highschool because you will get the
most out of it, you will learnthe most, and you will end up
with the most choices.
(18:15):
And like that is to me, is whenI'm unhappy, is when I have no
choice.
You know, I'm left with nochoices, or I, you know, there's
an there's an obligation tosomething that I don't want to
do.
And so that's what I don't wantfor them.
And so as we as you and I talkright now, I'm thinking or
realizing that maybe my maybewhat maybe the tipping point for
(18:42):
me is whether something is achoice or an obligation.
And that's is a minute tominute, day-to-day, meeting to
meeting.
Maybe that is what's going on umwith me in a lot of ways.
And maybe I'm projecting, youknow, that onto what I want for
them.
Maybe they could care lesswhether they have any choices or
not going forward.
Um, but uh, you know, maybe theyall three want to go into the
(19:02):
military where choice is takenaway from them and they just
have to do what they're told,and and and you know, some
people prefer that.
But um, but yeah, maybe that'swhat it is for me, is that that
when choice is um when choice isabsent is when I revolt,
especially when it comes tobeing in the midst of a business
(19:25):
architecture that I have set up.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
Is freedom an important value to you?
SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
It's hard to find a place for the word freedom
within the business world orwithin the company or within the
restaurant itself.
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Like I think that most creative people who are in
the restaurant industry do bestif they have some structure.
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
I know that I will write a better menu if you say,
okay, I would you're gonna comeover and cook for 10 people at
my house.
I would like seven courses inthe style of Southwest France,
rather than, hey, I want you tocome over and cook for a dinner
party.
Here's a blank piece of paper,do whatever you want.
And so, and maybe, maybe there'sa, you know, maybe there's an
(20:51):
analog there to the way that I,so the way that we think of the
organizational pyramid at ourrestaurants is inverted.
So I see myself at the bottom,and then if I can keep the
lights on, pay the bills, makesure paychecks don't bounce,
hire the right managers, signgood leases, you know, put
together strong companies, findgood investors, then I have done
(21:12):
my part to support the generalmanagers and executive chefs.
And then if I can hold themaccountable, and it and it goes
up like that.
And so therefore, if someone hasthe right, all the right
resource to be held accountablefor their position, um, and
there is an opportunity for newideas, creative input, um, and
(21:34):
those sorts of things withintheir job framework, that's
where I think freedom is um is agreat thing.
And I also think that thatfreedom in a lot of a lot of
these positions is earnedthrough, you know, showing that
you can showing that you knowthe rules and can live by them
and teach them to others, modelthem for others, um, you know,
before before you are going toimprove on them or bend them or
(21:57):
you know, go above and beyondthem.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
What's missing in the structure that you've built
today?
SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
I wish I knew.
SPEAKER_03 (22:28):
And I've tried um tried an executive assistant and
that became um you know more ofa uh that just became more of a
they just like added a task tomy day because all of a sudden
there was an 805 call that I hadto take every day, you know,
whether I needed to or wanted toor not.
SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
Um tried um man, what is what is missing in the
structure that we built?
There have been some good valueads, fractional bookkeeping,
fractional AP.
SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
Those things have been very helpful, and those
have helped me to outsource thereally just rote administrative
tasks that had to be done andhave to be done, and now um now
they're done by somebody whodoes them better than me and
more thoroughly and you knowdovetails easily with our
(23:29):
accountants during tax season.
SPEAKER_01 (23:30):
Um what is missing?
What is missing?
SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
Um I you know, I think sometimes I feel like a
big fish in a small pond, andthen I think that what is
missing is you know my lack ofum yeah, what's missing is that
(23:58):
I don't know what I don't know,and I'm constantly finding out,
right?
Um and so that's a there'sthere's there are corners I wish
that I could see around.
No one in the operation has youknow anywhere near the amount of
experience that I do, um whichallows me to lead them, allows
(24:18):
them to trust me.
Um, but it also means that Imake mistakes and sometimes
glaring ones, and you know, itit happens in in front of
everybody.
And um, you know, it it doesn'thappen often.
It doesn't happen in a in a in away that threatens anyone's
career or the business or oranything like that.
(24:39):
But um yeah, I think sometimes Iwish I was a little bit more
complete, but I don't know how Iwould have I think that that's
what I'm in the process of ofdoing now.
And so now I'm much morecomplete as a leader, owner,
manager, chef than I was sixyears ago when we started
Hawthorne and Wood.
I mean, I can't believe all thestuff that I didn't know then.
Um, you know, but as we, youknow, as we try to expand the
(25:00):
business, and I, you know, thisweek I'm gonna be taking a crash
course and um you know settingup a restaurant real estate deal
because I've never done thatbefore, and hopefully that's on
the horizon for us.
So, you know, as it's those sortof things.
You know, I'm I'm transparentwith our staff, I'm transparent
with our managers, I'mtransparent with our investors.
Um, you know, but this will beme talking to investors, you
(25:24):
know, whose fortunes I some ofmy are kind of incredible, and
and me trying to talk to them ina knowledgeable manner about
real estate deals that I'm suresome of them have done hundreds
of times.
So, you know, there are thingslike that that are um, you know,
still a struggle for me tofigure out um along the way.
(25:44):
So so maybe that's what'smissing.
Um, you know, is just more moreexperience for me.
But I don't think that we'remissing, I never want to be top
heavy with salaries.
You know, I I want to surroundmyself with experts, but I don't
want this heavy safety net of,you know, there's no reason for
(26:06):
us to have a freaking CFO and anHR manager and uh, you know,
there's just like like that.
I don't know.
I I well, first of all, it'srestaurants with thin margins.
We need to run lean.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:18):
Um and second of all, I feel like some of that
would hinder me rather than thanhelp.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
What would your business look like if you
infused a little bit morevulnerability into your
leadership?
Ooh, more vulnerability?
SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
I uh Yeah, I try to be I try to be good, and I think
I am good about you knowadmitting when I'm wrong and
admitting it, you know, in frontof in front of everyone.
Um a little bit morevulnerability would probably
help others be more forth,becoming frank and honest, and
(27:07):
admitting of their own mistakes.
You know, when it's when we'rein the moment when we're in
service, when you're we're goinga full-tail boogie in the
kitchen, I can still be prettydirect with people.
Um, but when the moment haspassed when I'm reading shift
(27:30):
reports and recaps and guestfeedbacks early in the morning,
I'm much better now.
And I think I still continue toimprove at giving our team the
benefit of the doubt becausethey are an elite group,
especially there, they're youknow, elite groups of restaurant
workers, asking them for theirside of the story, asking them
(27:54):
if this is the way that theyremember this interaction with
the guests going, um, ask askingthem what they think that that
we should do.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:02):
Um, so that is a that's an ongoing evolution for
my pro for me.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
But I'm I'm I'm wary.
SPEAKER_03 (28:17):
I'm much less I was much more wary of always needing
to seem like the authority andthe expert, you know, whether it
was guest relations or cookingor HR or marketing or whatever
it was.
Now I'm much more comfortable.
Hey, you know, so I asked our Iasked our manager at Proximo,
(28:41):
you know, this is not a decisionthat gets made at his level, but
I asked him his input before Iasked the other the other two
directors, do you think weshould do a pre-theater dinner
every night at Proximo asopposed to only nights when
there are plays at the Carolinayou know theater for the
performing arts?
You all want to get his input onit from the ground level.
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
Um, you know, and and so yeah, it's uh I think
that there's a great deal of mewhen I think back on it in my
days as sous-chef, chef decuisine.
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
And in those roles, when things were handed down to
me by someone who was no longerboots on the ground but but was
an expert, um, and and whereas Iknew a slightly better way.
And then when I went to work atSolage, the the general manager
there, Richard Hill, you know,was a very strong leader, but he
(29:45):
also treated each directoraround the table of those
executive meetings as if theywere running their own business.
Director of HR, director of spa,maintenance, FMB rooms, and
everything.
And um and so it waschallenging, but he knew that he
(30:05):
was a he was an expert in spa.
He was an expert in guestservices, but he was not an
expert in engineering or in FMB.
And so he would, you know, askreally, really good questions so
that he could pull pull theexpertise and the and the um
opinions out of us and try toget us to come to these
(30:27):
conclusions on our own.
And you know, what I've what hefound that that did, and now
what I find that does is thatencourages the manager who has
contributed those thoughts andhelped make that decision to
have more ownership of it, andtherefore they're much more
likely to put it into practiceand hold that as a new standard.
(30:48):
Just like you know, when a souschef puts his own dish on the
menu as opposed to one of mine,he is locked down, making sure
that dish is perfect every timeit goes out.
unknown (30:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
Hey there, podcast friends.
I hope you're enjoying theseimpactful conversations and
leadership insights I'm bringingyou each week.
Before we dive back into today'sepisode, I want to take a moment
and reach out and ask a smallfavor that would go a long way
in supporting the show.
If you've been loving thecontent I'm providing, please
take a moment to leave a ratingand review wherever you listen
(31:19):
to your podcast.
Not only does it make my day,but it also plays a pivotal role
in helping the show grow.
Your reviews boost myvisibility, attract new
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So if you want to be part of myshow's growth journey, hit that
review button and let me knowwhat you think.
(31:41):
Thanks a million for beingawesome listeners.
When we started thisconversation, you were putting a
lot of pressure on yourself tomake sure you could find the
great questions.
You always knew the greatquestions to ask in certain
scenarios and find the answers.
And I wonder how that pressurethat you're putting on yourself
(32:02):
is also showing up with yourleadership team.
SPEAKER_03 (32:07):
Yeah, I'm I don't have much of a uh much of a
poker face.
And like last night, at lastnight at Proximo, I was I was
working service, but I had justgotten a couple of phone calls
during the afternoon.
One was a very positiveopportunity, one was very
negative equipment situationthat was going to be expensive
and um pressing for time andjust dealing with those.
(32:30):
And then at Proximo, I mean Ihave six guests sitting three
feet from me, literally, youknow, wanting you know, a couple
glasses of wine, a couple have acouple glasses of Rioja, they
want to talk to the chef.
Like, I don't, I just want toshut down and cook and and and
be done and go deal with thisother stuff.
And so um, yeah, being beingpresent um is is not always the
(32:53):
easiest thing for me.
And so then, you know, when Idon't have much of a poker face
and the workers see meexasperated, I'm aware of it,
and it lets them and it's not anaffectation.
Like I can't control it.
(33:14):
I just don't like I get upset, Iget frustrated, you know, I
don't take it out on them, Idon't call them names, I don't,
I don't, I don't do any of thatstuff, but uh, but uh, you know,
it um might have my head in myhands or um or something like
that, and uh you know I I I Ithink that is probably a little
(33:43):
demoralizing for them.
SPEAKER_01 (33:46):
At least they know that I'm human.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Um you know, one time at Solaj, I walked by one
of the uh sales managers, and umI was laughing about something.
Um, and she said, Don't smile,you'll you'll ruin your
reputation.
So um I think that I look reallyserious a lot of time at work,
(34:10):
and um that's not be me be angryor even being stern, that's just
me focusing and sometimes on youknow something that's that's far
away because I struggle to bepresent.
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
But yeah, um, you know, I I I'm a pretty I was
gonna say I'm a pretty openbook.
SPEAKER_03 (34:30):
I'm not sure that's the case, but um but I don't
think I'm difficult for thestaff to read.
unknown (34:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
One thing that I learned very early on when I was
taking my coaching courses wassomething that was really
empowering.
My I I when I was in my program,I I wanted to know what question
I needed to ask during everycoaching session.
Wanted to make sure it was theright question, wanted to make
sure it landed 100% of the time,and then I knew exactly where
(35:01):
the coaching session was gonnago.
And I quickly realized, justlike service, every single
night, you know when the door'sopen, you know when the door is
closed, but you have no idea howthat shift is gonna go.
100%, right?
You can put all the structuresand the systems in place and the
great team and all that, butyou've still got all these
guests coming in every singlenight and a different team every
single night.
But what I learned in mycoaching courses is that if 50%
(35:26):
of the questions that I askclients land, that's great.
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
And it's okay for me to say in moments, I don't know
what question to ask right now.
SPEAKER_03 (36:11):
I think that the key for me of these open
communications with my managersis having the scheduled meeting
because even when it's somethinggood or just a question, even
when it's good feedback that Iwant to give them or an earnest
question that I want to ask themin person, you know, and and not
(36:34):
via email, and I ask them for ameeting, like immediately like
the you know, the defenses goup.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
And so that is you know, because sometimes I mean
it it sucked.
Like I've had to I've had torelease four general managers in
the past four years.
Um and those are ones where youjust have to go, hey, um, let's
(37:06):
go sit down.
I need to speak to you.
But I but I am not a talkativeperson, and so I'm not the one
(37:29):
initiating a lot ofconversations.
SPEAKER_03 (37:32):
It takes effort for me to do the things that I think
really, or not really, do thethings that I think really help
said it anyway, grease the skidsof relationships with especially
my managers, you know, and thisis usually sous chefs that I see
in the morning, of an instead ofcoming in, you know, and going
(37:55):
standing up at the bar, openingup my laptop, and starting right
in on the day's work, ofstopping, talking to the sous
chef, put away some produce withhim, have a cup of coffee, and
just catch up.
SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
And I guess I wish I knew like there was some sort of
like video game display.
SPEAKER_03 (38:20):
But it was like, how many points is that worth?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:24):
Because I think that that I'm because no, but I'm
thinking back and I'm like, whenI worked at French Laundry,
nobody ever, you know, the ownerdidn't come and do that.
When I worked at a restaurantGary Danko, the owner didn't
come and do that.
When I worked at a restaurantAugust, sometimes, you know, the
executive chef there, an owner,would come in and bullshit with
me and do that.
And that was, you know, somebodyI had a great relationship with
(38:46):
and still do to this day.
And so, you know, there'ssomething, even though I it's my
natural mentality to not do thatand discount that, um, that's
something that it's notunpleasant, but I see it as
inconvenient, where I should seeit as probably an essential job
(39:08):
function, you know, and itprobably has as much or more, or
maybe less, but it probably has,you know, a similar effect as
the one-on-ones do of keepingthe lines of communication open.
And it and even more than that,detracting from any sort of
(39:29):
fear, resentment, disaffection,anything like that that the
person may have.
Because you know, he if I if Iblaze right by with a curt good
morning, and I'm hearing myself,I'm describing myself doing
something that I unfortunatelydo pretty often with a curt good
morning, go straight to the bartop, open up my laptop, and go
(39:51):
straight to work.
He may just feel like afactotum, you know, and just
another um work.
unknown (40:00):
be.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
Yeah.
But it's tough for me to it'stough for me to slow down and do
that.
SPEAKER_03 (40:07):
You know, among other things, on the drive on
the eight minute drive to work,I've already got a list going in
my head of stuff that I'm behindon that I need to get in there
and freaking bang out.
So so yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:21):
Yeah.
I wonder what kind of delegationwould come out of those
one-on-ones and what kind ofempowerment would come out of
those one-on-ones.
SPEAKER_03 (40:31):
Yeah, I I I do too.
Most of them are with prettylongstanding employees, you
know, and the person I'mthinking of right now, you know,
has an has an expert at theposition above his who probably
isn't going anywhere.
So there's no real chance forupward upward mobility.
(40:51):
You know, just got a big raise,has a has a you know 55 hour
work week and a and a full fullload of work.
So I think probablystrengthening that
relationships, emotional ties isprobably the best thing.
And then from that wouldprobably evolve of his own
(41:17):
ideation and volition some ideasfor delegation.
Because that's that's what I atthe level of a lot of my
managers who have, you know, soI can think of several who have
been here been with us three,four and five years.
I'm at the point now of needingthem to realize that they can do
(41:39):
that they've gotten moreefficient, you know, doing the
same job, doing the same dutiesrelatively for three, four, or
five years.
I need them to step forward, youknow, start to hold themselves
to a higher standard and say,hey, I can take on more what can
I take off your plate?
And I I heard this, man, who didI hear this from the other day?
Oh, Scott Galloway, you know,he's doing one of one of his
advice podcasts and somebodycalled in and said, you know,
(42:00):
I'm just starting my entry levelposition out of college or
whatever.
And he said, if you want to moveahead, go to your boss, find out
his least favorite task and askhow you can do that for him.
You know, make yourselfindispensable to him in that
way.
And I thought that was such afantastic take.
I would freaking love it ifsomebody did that for me.
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
Love it.
What are you taking away fromthis conversation today?
I need to figure out how to makesome of these self-realizations
(42:42):
stick.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
You know, and not just be gonna get up and
meditate in the morning 10minutes and you know once every
three weeks it's a fantasticsession where I'm fully present
not thinking about the day notthinking about what I'm gonna
make the kids for breakfast andtruly present right and and
(43:05):
reach another state.
And then it ends wake up thekids, feed the dogs, feed the
kids, let's get out the door forfor school so what can I take
from this conversation that isgoing to last it's gonna it's
(43:29):
gonna stick with me.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
I think I I think it's twofold because I what I
realized last night was that Icannot commit myself to this I
mean it was only you know itwasn't even a full kitchen
workday.
SPEAKER_03 (43:50):
It was eight hours in the kitchen you know my day
had started five hours before myworkday started five hours
before that but it was eighthours in the kitchen of that I
could not walk away from thatstation I was fully responsible
for that kitchen from prep tostaff meal to service to to shut
down and you know orders andeverything and I just don't have
I can do that I can do that or Ican run the businesses and
(44:15):
maintain relationships with theother professionals in this
organization and treat them asthey deserve to be treated.
I cannot do both and that's whatwas had me pulling out my hair
um last night there's I meanright before service I almost
turned to the manager I was likelook I cannot make any more
decisions today you have to andthat is and you have to stop
asking me questions.
(44:35):
I don't want to talk to anyguests I don't want to hear
anything which is the absoluteworst thing for me to do you
know as the owner and the leaderbut that's the point that I was
at um having been spread sothin.
SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
So I think what I would like to do and I thought
about this late last night afterI got home and was decompressing
was probably have a summit withall of my executives explain to
them what I'm planning to dogoing forward for the business
(45:12):
the reasons that I cannot coverthese shifts anymore and now
after this conversation I canreasonably and comprehensively
and comprehensively explain tothem why it is in their best
interest that I not do thoseshifts anymore and that you know
(45:35):
on a personal on a personallevel I can slow down and stop
and have a coffee and put awaysome produce talk to them about
this and come work on a specialyeah is it uncomfortable okay
(45:59):
good good you talked aboutearlier keeping your long
tenured managers engaged andmanaging their workload, their
productivity but helping themunderstand what they can start
to delegate and letting go ofsome things and what you're
talking about is modeling thatbehavior for them.
And there's a lot ofvulnerability in that and saying
(46:20):
I got to let go of this andhere's what here's what this
looks like going forward andhere's what I need from you all
because this is what I need forme.
Yeah that's great.
Great job Brandon thank you foryour time I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03 (46:34):
Yeah I enjoy that immensely thanks good never I
never talk that much I nevertalk about myself that much so
that was uh that was delightful.
SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Good I'm so glad thank you for your time really
thank you for diving into thisso deeply and and coming on the
show really um appreciate youhelping me introduce this
concept of coaching to to thehospitality industry.
So um your restaurant looksabsolute absolutely gorgeous and
stunning and I can't wait to getout there to North Carolina and
check it out.
(47:01):
So um that is going to do it forus this week everybody please
share this episode with anyonein the industry that you know
who could benefit and we'll talkto you next week.
Have you ever found yourself in a position as a
restaurant owner where you'rebeing pulled in so many
different directions that youfeel like you don't have control
and choice over where you spendyour time and your energy and
how to get in your flow state?
Today I'm doing a coachingsession with Brandon Sharp,
who's the owner of threerestaurants in Chapel Hill:
Hawthorne and Wood, Bluebird,and Proximo.
(00:30):
And we spend a significantamount of time diving into
Brandon's concern about how tostay present in the moment with
his team, with his ownleadership, and at home when
things are so chaotic and he'sbeing pulled in so many
different directions.
We talk about his need anddesire and pressure to know
(00:53):
exactly what questions to askhis staff and to make sure that
he has the right answers to thebig important questions that are
moving the business forward.
We also take a deep look intowhat his current structure looks
like and what's potentiallymissing in that structure in
order to move the organizationforward.
And in the end, he comes to areally powerful realization of
(01:13):
something that he needs to letgo of in order to move himself
forward and stay in his happyplace and continue to develop
his team and retain hislong-tenured managers.
Hope you enjoy this episode.
Welcome to the RestaurantLeadership Podcast, where we
coach independent, multi-unitrestaurant operators to build
(01:36):
systems that drive profitabilityand reclaim time so they can
scale with confidence and spendtheir time and energy where they
want to, not where they have to.
I'm your host, Kristen Marvin,restaurant coach and author of
Multi-unit Mastery.
If you are an independentrestaurant owner managing
multiple locations, you know thechaos that comes with growth.
(02:01):
Inconsistent execution acrossyour restaurants.
Managers who won't takeownership.
Constantly answering questionsyour team should already know
the answers to.
You're stuck in your currentrole when you want to be playing
a bigger strategic role as youscale.
You don't have the right leadersin place or you keep losing
(02:21):
them.
And you're not sure how to findgreat people and actually keep
them around.
We work with passionateindependent restaurant owners
who found success with theirfirst few locations and are
ready to scale strategically.
Our clients aren't looking tojust survive expansion.
They want to thrive through it.
They're committed to developingstrong leaders and creating
(02:44):
exceptional guest experiences.
Through the independentrestaurant framework that we
teach in multi-unit mastery, wecoach independent restaurant
groups to move from chaos toconfidence by focusing on three
pillars (02:56):
people, process, and profit.
You can grab a gifted copy ofthe book at irfbook.com.
On this show, we bring you realcoaching conversations,
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And here's the thing (03:16):
coaching has changed our clients'
businesses and can change yourstoo.
If you've never experienced whatit's like to have someone in
your corner who actually getsthe restaurant world, we'd love
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We offer one-on-one and groupcoaching.
Head to kristenmarvin.com slashcontact for a complimentary
(03:38):
coaching session and let's talkabout what's possible for your
restaurant group.
Brandon, how can I make this anextraordinary conversation for
you today?
SPEAKER_03 (03:53):
If I can leave it with both good questions to ask
myself and also some answers,like I don't expect to come away
with it with answers because Ithink that this is going to be a
month-long and years-long andhopefully career-long project
for me of figuring things out,my career, my opportunities,
(04:15):
this company evolving.
Um, but I I I want to know whatare the right questions to be
asking myself along the waybecause the things that swirl
inside my head day to day,should I have a routine?
Should I not have a routine?
How available should I makemyself?
Like all the all these littlethings um really, I think, slow
(04:36):
me down and keep me from beingpresent with the person that's
in front of me, with the guestor the cooks or or whatever
that's in front of me at themoment.
SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
So it sounds like you're asking yourself a lot of
questions, but you're not quitesure if they're the right ones
or not.
SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
Yes.
I don't know if I'm asking theright questions.
I don't know if I'm asking umthe, yes, yeah.
That's yeah, that I have I havea lot of questions.
And I and I'm aware of the factthat if I stop making decisions,
then I hold up everyone else'sjob.
Like they depend on me for quickdecisions.
And most of the time they'renot, you know, life-changing,
(05:11):
earth-shattering, you know, hugedecisions, but they're little
ones that need to be made.
You know, should we cut offreservations at 159 or should or
should we keep going?
And um, you know, they're askingme for different reasons.
Sometimes, you know, usually asthe owner, you or I only get the
the questions that and theissues that are really hard and
(05:34):
no one else wants to deal with.
Um, everyone in the organizationis pretty well aware of what
their category of decisions are,you know, what they're what what
they're allowed, whether they'reallowed to hire and fire people
or create specials or change themenu or you know, whatever it is
on those on those levels.
So um it's a it's a it's aconstantly ongoing process.
(05:55):
And as our company has really,you know, thankfully, uh
continued to evolve, continue toexpand, and yeah, I'm I'm always
uh what's the I always feel likeI'm learning to fly while
falling.
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Sorry, my dog chef is barking to close the door.
What's important to you aboutbeing really present in the
moment?
SPEAKER_03 (06:27):
For me, looking inward, that's when things slow
down and there's at least thechance for a flow state.
And that I used to feel thatrelatively often when I was
working on the line, you know,and I'm really focused on just
the equipment, the ingredients,using all five senses, which I
which is my favorite thing aboutworking in kitchens, and being
(06:51):
part of a team.
And you can just get into a flowstate.
That is, and so now selfishly,that's almost impossible.
Um, you know, skipping from onerestaurant to another, one
meeting to another.
Um, but that but that's allthat's all personal.
Externally, what's importantabout being present is that it
shows the other person therespect that they have my um
(07:14):
undivided attention and thatthat I'm only like and I know
that we will both get the bestout of whatever situation,
whether it's an interview or ameeting about a new project, or
just a one-on-one, if they havemy full attention.
So, you know, ringer turned off,hopefully, phone is out of the
(07:35):
room.
I'm just there with my notebookand a pen, listening to them,
asking them questions.
And um, um, and yeah, and and Ireally try, you know, I start
with the coaching technique inthese one-on-ones of what's on
your mind.
And then I just, what else, whatelse, what else, what else?
Until, you know, they don'trealize that it is eventually
(07:56):
making them a littleuncomfortable, but not
uncomfortable in in the thatthey're squirming um or that
they're really being put on thespot, but they're just really
telling me things that that theymay not have come into the
conversation wanting to tell me,but that that we need to talk
about because, you know, theyare my general manager or they
are my executive chef at thisrestaurant.
So that's what that's that's whyI think it's important to be
(08:17):
present those two on those twothose two phases.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
What's the impact of that?
SPEAKER_03 (08:27):
You're doing something to me right now, and
I'm not sure what it is, but Iknow something's being done to
me.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Um I'm just asking the question.
SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Um So where things so the positive impact is a man,
it's it's this is kind of anegative way to put it.
The positive impact is reallyjust the tip of the iceberg that
we that we continue to havegood, open, honest communication
so that when there is an issue,it's not a me yelling, it
(08:58):
doesn't it's not me yelling andscreaming WTF, and it doesn't
feel like me yelling andscreaming WTF.
We both have a solid frame ofreference with how to
communicate with one another.
So that's the positive part ofit.
The negative part of not um nothaving those interactions and
not is that you know uh lack ofcommunication leads to um you
know fear and distrust anddislike and and then um you know
(09:23):
um well I mean hatredeventually, but um, but yeah,
and and resentment.
So resentment builds when to mewhen when when when
communication with my managersbreaks down.
And it's all and it's always Iit is always my fault.
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
All right, everybody.
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(10:31):
business.
The clock is ticking.
Do you feel like when you arereally present with your
managers, you are in a positionwhere you are able to know
exactly what questions to askand you're asking the right
questions and you're getting theanswers that you want or that
you need to move the businessforward.
SPEAKER_03 (10:56):
Yes, but I don't necessarily think it's from
asking the right questionsbecause a lot of the tactical
questions, procedural orpersonnel questions will usually
be asked via email after readinga shift recap or something like
(11:21):
that.
The ones that that I get themost out of are the the
open-ended ones of what's onyour mind, what else and what
else.
And and because that's whenthat's when things get uncovered
that they may not even know thatare bothering them, um, but that
we can tease out.
And that's when it really comes,I think that's when the
(11:42):
coachable moments really comebecause a lot of times they 99%
of the time, the managers andchefs will do the right thing.
They know the right thing to do,and they would do it if I was
there or not, asking me maybe asecurity blanket, a safety net,
a formality, something likethat.
But, you know, I I heard heardthis the other day, and and um,
(12:03):
you know, it sounds kind ofnegative, but it's you know, uh
if I were to ask them, okay,pretend I'm not here, what would
you do then?
And they would do the samething.
They would do the right thingthat I would you know end up
recommending to them anyway.
So um I'm trying to get betterabout not needing to seem smart
or look smart or sound smart tothem by proving that I know the
(12:23):
answer or affirming that that Iknow the answer, but trying a
gentler way than that of youknow turning it around to them
and really giving them the umthe initiative and the
opportunity to um to do itthemselves.
It's it's very hard.
When the so, for instance, lastweekend we had a we Clemson was
(12:44):
coming to town to play UNC.
Restaurants were were packed,um, days were booked out days in
advance, and the the reservationline here at Bluebird was
hovering around 150, and we knowwe're gonna get another 50
walk-ins, and and 200 is when wereally start to get the speed
wobble here, and things start tobreak down.
And so general manager asked mevia email and copied the chef
(13:04):
and the director of operationsshould we shut off reservations?
I said, well, one, why don't youtwo decide what you're capable
of?
Look at your schedule, look atyour personnel, you know, look
at the pattern that thereservations are gonna come in
on, and you guys decide.
I trust you to do what is bestfor your crew and for the
business.
(13:25):
Or two, set the line at 150.
When it goes above that, togglereservations off on Resi.
When it goes below that, togglethem back on, let the
reservationists know.
You know, so and it was kind offelt bad about sending it
because I I gave them theopportunity to do it yourself,
but then I also kind of gavethem the answer and I didn't
(13:47):
know which was the right one todo, so I did both.
So I kind of kind of copped outon that one, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
Yeah.
What are you noticing whenyou're saying that?
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Um still stuck.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
I'm still stuck between being able to drift
above the business and just workon the business and being in the
business and still you know,wanting and needing to pull some
strings.
SPEAKER_00 (14:29):
What's that perspective look like for you
right now, being in the businessand being stuck?
What's that feel like for you?
SPEAKER_03 (14:41):
Makes me a little resentful at times, um, but it's
a very short leap for me torealize that it's all my own.
Nobody made me do this.
Nobody's not not only is no oneholding a gun to my head, like
people help me get thisopportunity, you know.
And I read the other day thatyou should be grateful for the
(15:02):
ability to work hard at thethings that you've always
dreamed of doing, which isexactly what I get to do, you
know, every day.
But this morning, like I washere early working on um
everything pretzel roll that Iwant to do for a smoked salmon
um special here at Bluebird forbrunch this weekend.
And so that gave me immensesatisfaction.
And not only is baking the mostsatisfying type of cooking to do
(15:24):
um in a lot of ways, um, I justbeing in an empty kitchen,
getting to touch and feel andand and taste the food is
something that I that I missdearly.
But that's what I am pretty sureI need to get myself out of
doing so that others can dothat.
(15:46):
And so again, so that I can workon the business instead of in
the business.
So the question was, how does itfeel to how do it feel to be in
the business?
Yeah, so a little, so uh yeah, alittle resentment, but um but
that resentment doesn't have aface, you know.
I it just made and I just wantto like stupid, stupid, stupid.
(16:06):
Like that's how it makes mefeel.
SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Yeah, I mean it your energy completely shifted when
you were talking about beingback in the kitchen and being in
that that flow state of and andI saw you and your energy be
able to slow down and justreally be present then of
getting back to what you trulylove and why you started in this
industry of being able to createand and yes, do a little bit on
(16:28):
your own, but just but justcreate that space for yourself
to be able to grow and innovateand create and do something
different.
SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
Yeah.
I wonder there's freedom ofchoice in that moment, right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
You're not being pulled into something that you
have to do, or you're not, youknow, you're not being
distracted by questions orhaving to seek the right answer.
You're just in your happy place,you're in your flow state,
you're being able to do what youwant to do in that space that
you've created.
What's the impact of that?
SPEAKER_03 (17:09):
Well, I when when I when I talk to my kids, so I've
got I've got three kids, 17, 15,and 12.
And so when I you know, they'reold enough to to understand
pretty um intricate and and andum involved concepts.
And so when I you know, mostpeople, not not it's I won't
(17:34):
even start there.
I want my to say that I want mykids to be happy when they grow
up is you know, that that onedoesn't compete.
Of course I want them to behappy when they grow up.
I think for um a lot of peoplewho are in our circumstances of
you know Western culture in theUSA in the 21st century, like
for a lot of us, we're we'relucky enough that happiness can
(17:55):
be a choice, at least a certainswitch that you can turn on and
off.
But I what what I tell them is,you know, I don't want you to
work hard in high school so thatyou can get into a good college,
so that you can have X job.
I want you to work hard in highschool because you will get the
most out of it, you will learnthe most, and you will end up
with the most choices.
(18:15):
And like that is to me, is whenI'm unhappy, is when I have no
choice.
You know, I'm left with nochoices, or I, you know, there's
an there's an obligation tosomething that I don't want to
do.
And so that's what I don't wantfor them.
And so as we as you and I talkright now, I'm thinking or
realizing that maybe my maybewhat maybe the tipping point for
(18:42):
me is whether something is achoice or an obligation.
And that's is a minute tominute, day-to-day, meeting to
meeting.
Maybe that is what's going on umwith me in a lot of ways.
And maybe I'm projecting, youknow, that onto what I want for
them.
Maybe they could care lesswhether they have any choices or
not going forward.
Um, but uh, you know, maybe theyall three want to go into the
(19:02):
military where choice is takenaway from them and they just
have to do what they're told,and and and you know, some
people prefer that.
But um, but yeah, maybe that'swhat it is for me, is that that
when choice is um when choice isabsent is when I revolt,
especially when it comes tobeing in the midst of a business
(19:25):
architecture that I have set up.
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
Is freedom an important value to you?
SPEAKER_03 (20:00):
It's hard to find a place for the word freedom
within the business world orwithin the company or within the
restaurant itself.
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Like I think that most creative people who are in
the restaurant industry do bestif they have some structure.
SPEAKER_03 (20:25):
I know that I will write a better menu if you say,
okay, I would you're gonna comeover and cook for 10 people at
my house.
I would like seven courses inthe style of Southwest France,
rather than, hey, I want you tocome over and cook for a dinner
party.
Here's a blank piece of paper,do whatever you want.
And so, and maybe, maybe there'sa, you know, maybe there's an
(20:51):
analog there to the way that I,so the way that we think of the
organizational pyramid at ourrestaurants is inverted.
So I see myself at the bottom,and then if I can keep the
lights on, pay the bills, makesure paychecks don't bounce,
hire the right managers, signgood leases, you know, put
together strong companies, findgood investors, then I have done
(21:12):
my part to support the generalmanagers and executive chefs.
And then if I can hold themaccountable, and it and it goes
up like that.
And so therefore, if someone hasthe right, all the right
resource to be held accountablefor their position, um, and
there is an opportunity for newideas, creative input, um, and
(21:34):
those sorts of things withintheir job framework, that's
where I think freedom is um is agreat thing.
And I also think that thatfreedom in a lot of a lot of
these positions is earnedthrough, you know, showing that
you can showing that you knowthe rules and can live by them
and teach them to others, modelthem for others, um, you know,
before before you are going toimprove on them or bend them or
(21:57):
you know, go above and beyondthem.
SPEAKER_00 (21:59):
What's missing in the structure that you've built
today?
SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
I wish I knew.
SPEAKER_03 (22:28):
And I've tried um tried an executive assistant and
that became um you know more ofa uh that just became more of a
they just like added a task tomy day because all of a sudden
there was an 805 call that I hadto take every day, you know,
whether I needed to or wanted toor not.
SPEAKER_01 (22:45):
Um tried um man, what is what is missing in the
structure that we built?
There have been some good valueads, fractional bookkeeping,
fractional AP.
SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
Those things have been very helpful, and those
have helped me to outsource thereally just rote administrative
tasks that had to be done andhave to be done, and now um now
they're done by somebody whodoes them better than me and
more thoroughly and you knowdovetails easily with our
(23:29):
accountants during tax season.
SPEAKER_01 (23:30):
Um what is missing?
What is missing?
SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
Um I you know, I think sometimes I feel like a
big fish in a small pond, andthen I think that what is
missing is you know my lack ofum yeah, what's missing is that
(23:58):
I don't know what I don't know,and I'm constantly finding out,
right?
Um and so that's a there'sthere's there are corners I wish
that I could see around.
No one in the operation has youknow anywhere near the amount of
experience that I do, um whichallows me to lead them, allows
(24:18):
them to trust me.
Um, but it also means that Imake mistakes and sometimes
glaring ones, and you know, itit happens in in front of
everybody.
And um, you know, it it doesn'thappen often.
It doesn't happen in a in a in away that threatens anyone's
career or the business or oranything like that.
(24:39):
But um yeah, I think sometimes Iwish I was a little bit more
complete, but I don't know how Iwould have I think that that's
what I'm in the process of ofdoing now.
And so now I'm much morecomplete as a leader, owner,
manager, chef than I was sixyears ago when we started
Hawthorne and Wood.
I mean, I can't believe all thestuff that I didn't know then.
Um, you know, but as we, youknow, as we try to expand the
(25:00):
business, and I, you know, thisweek I'm gonna be taking a crash
course and um you know settingup a restaurant real estate deal
because I've never done thatbefore, and hopefully that's on
the horizon for us.
So, you know, as it's those sortof things.
You know, I'm I'm transparentwith our staff, I'm transparent
with our managers, I'mtransparent with our investors.
Um, you know, but this will beme talking to investors, you
(25:24):
know, whose fortunes I some ofmy are kind of incredible, and
and me trying to talk to them ina knowledgeable manner about
real estate deals that I'm suresome of them have done hundreds
of times.
So, you know, there are thingslike that that are um, you know,
still a struggle for me tofigure out um along the way.
(25:44):
So so maybe that's what'smissing.
Um, you know, is just more moreexperience for me.
But I don't think that we'remissing, I never want to be top
heavy with salaries.
You know, I I want to surroundmyself with experts, but I don't
want this heavy safety net of,you know, there's no reason for
(26:06):
us to have a freaking CFO and anHR manager and uh, you know,
there's just like like that.
I don't know.
I I well, first of all, it'srestaurants with thin margins.
We need to run lean.
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (26:18):
Um and second of all, I feel like some of that
would hinder me rather than thanhelp.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:25):
What would your business look like if you
infused a little bit morevulnerability into your
leadership?
Ooh, more vulnerability?
SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
I uh Yeah, I try to be I try to be good, and I think
I am good about you knowadmitting when I'm wrong and
admitting it, you know, in frontof in front of everyone.
Um a little bit morevulnerability would probably
help others be more forth,becoming frank and honest, and
(27:07):
admitting of their own mistakes.
You know, when it's when we'rein the moment when we're in
service, when you're we're goinga full-tail boogie in the
kitchen, I can still be prettydirect with people.
Um, but when the moment haspassed when I'm reading shift
(27:30):
reports and recaps and guestfeedbacks early in the morning,
I'm much better now.
And I think I still continue toimprove at giving our team the
benefit of the doubt becausethey are an elite group,
especially there, they're youknow, elite groups of restaurant
workers, asking them for theirside of the story, asking them
(27:54):
if this is the way that theyremember this interaction with
the guests going, um, ask askingthem what they think that that
we should do.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (28:02):
Um, so that is a that's an ongoing evolution for
my pro for me.
SPEAKER_01 (28:09):
But I'm I'm I'm wary.
SPEAKER_03 (28:17):
I'm much less I was much more wary of always needing
to seem like the authority andthe expert, you know, whether it
was guest relations or cookingor HR or marketing or whatever
it was.
Now I'm much more comfortable.
Hey, you know, so I asked our Iasked our manager at Proximo,
(28:41):
you know, this is not a decisionthat gets made at his level, but
I asked him his input before Iasked the other the other two
directors, do you think weshould do a pre-theater dinner
every night at Proximo asopposed to only nights when
there are plays at the Carolinayou know theater for the
performing arts?
You all want to get his input onit from the ground level.
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
Um, you know, and and so yeah, it's uh I think
that there's a great deal of mewhen I think back on it in my
days as sous-chef, chef decuisine.
SPEAKER_03 (29:23):
And in those roles, when things were handed down to
me by someone who was no longerboots on the ground but but was
an expert, um, and and whereas Iknew a slightly better way.
And then when I went to work atSolage, the the general manager
there, Richard Hill, you know,was a very strong leader, but he
(29:45):
also treated each directoraround the table of those
executive meetings as if theywere running their own business.
Director of HR, director of spa,maintenance, FMB rooms, and
everything.
And um and so it waschallenging, but he knew that he
(30:05):
was a he was an expert in spa.
He was an expert in guestservices, but he was not an
expert in engineering or in FMB.
And so he would, you know, askreally, really good questions so
that he could pull pull theexpertise and the and the um
opinions out of us and try toget us to come to these
(30:27):
conclusions on our own.
And you know, what I've what hefound that that did, and now
what I find that does is thatencourages the manager who has
contributed those thoughts andhelped make that decision to
have more ownership of it, andtherefore they're much more
likely to put it into practiceand hold that as a new standard.
(30:48):
Just like you know, when a souschef puts his own dish on the
menu as opposed to one of mine,he is locked down, making sure
that dish is perfect every timeit goes out.
unknown (30:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
Hey there, podcast friends.
I hope you're enjoying theseimpactful conversations and
leadership insights I'm bringingyou each week.
Before we dive back into today'sepisode, I want to take a moment
and reach out and ask a smallfavor that would go a long way
in supporting the show.
If you've been loving thecontent I'm providing, please
take a moment to leave a ratingand review wherever you listen
(31:19):
to your podcast.
Not only does it make my day,but it also plays a pivotal role
in helping the show grow.
Your reviews boost myvisibility, attract new
listeners, and encourageexciting guests to join me on
the mic.
So if you want to be part of myshow's growth journey, hit that
review button and let me knowwhat you think.
(31:41):
Thanks a million for beingawesome listeners.
When we started thisconversation, you were putting a
lot of pressure on yourself tomake sure you could find the
great questions.
You always knew the greatquestions to ask in certain
scenarios and find the answers.
And I wonder how that pressurethat you're putting on yourself
(32:02):
is also showing up with yourleadership team.
SPEAKER_03 (32:07):
Yeah, I'm I don't have much of a uh much of a
poker face.
And like last night, at lastnight at Proximo, I was I was
working service, but I had justgotten a couple of phone calls
during the afternoon.
One was a very positiveopportunity, one was very
negative equipment situationthat was going to be expensive
and um pressing for time andjust dealing with those.
(32:30):
And then at Proximo, I mean Ihave six guests sitting three
feet from me, literally, youknow, wanting you know, a couple
glasses of wine, a couple have acouple glasses of Rioja, they
want to talk to the chef.
Like, I don't, I just want toshut down and cook and and and
be done and go deal with thisother stuff.
And so um, yeah, being beingpresent um is is not always the
(32:53):
easiest thing for me.
And so then, you know, when Idon't have much of a poker face
and the workers see meexasperated, I'm aware of it,
and it lets them and it's not anaffectation.
Like I can't control it.
(33:14):
I just don't like I get upset, Iget frustrated, you know, I
don't take it out on them, Idon't call them names, I don't,
I don't, I don't do any of thatstuff, but uh, but uh, you know,
it um might have my head in myhands or um or something like
that, and uh you know I I I Ithink that is probably a little
(33:43):
demoralizing for them.
SPEAKER_01 (33:46):
At least they know that I'm human.
SPEAKER_03 (33:49):
Um you know, one time at Solaj, I walked by one
of the uh sales managers, and umI was laughing about something.
Um, and she said, Don't smile,you'll you'll ruin your
reputation.
So um I think that I look reallyserious a lot of time at work,
(34:10):
and um that's not be me be angryor even being stern, that's just
me focusing and sometimes on youknow something that's that's far
away because I struggle to bepresent.
SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
But yeah, um, you know, I I I'm a pretty I was
gonna say I'm a pretty openbook.
SPEAKER_03 (34:30):
I'm not sure that's the case, but um but I don't
think I'm difficult for thestaff to read.
unknown (34:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (34:39):
One thing that I learned very early on when I was
taking my coaching courses wassomething that was really
empowering.
My I I when I was in my program,I I wanted to know what question
I needed to ask during everycoaching session.
Wanted to make sure it was theright question, wanted to make
sure it landed 100% of the time,and then I knew exactly where
(35:01):
the coaching session was gonnago.
And I quickly realized, justlike service, every single
night, you know when the door'sopen, you know when the door is
closed, but you have no idea howthat shift is gonna go.
100%, right?
You can put all the structuresand the systems in place and the
great team and all that, butyou've still got all these
guests coming in every singlenight and a different team every
single night.
But what I learned in mycoaching courses is that if 50%
(35:26):
of the questions that I askclients land, that's great.
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
And it's okay for me to say in moments, I don't know
what question to ask right now.
SPEAKER_03 (36:11):
I think that the key for me of these open
communications with my managersis having the scheduled meeting
because even when it's somethinggood or just a question, even
when it's good feedback that Iwant to give them or an earnest
question that I want to ask themin person, you know, and and not
(36:34):
via email, and I ask them for ameeting, like immediately like
the you know, the defenses goup.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
And so that is you know, because sometimes I mean
it it sucked.
Like I've had to I've had torelease four general managers in
the past four years.
Um and those are ones where youjust have to go, hey, um, let's
(37:06):
go sit down.
I need to speak to you.
But I but I am not a talkativeperson, and so I'm not the one
(37:29):
initiating a lot ofconversations.
SPEAKER_03 (37:32):
It takes effort for me to do the things that I think
really, or not really, do thethings that I think really help
said it anyway, grease the skidsof relationships with especially
my managers, you know, and thisis usually sous chefs that I see
in the morning, of an instead ofcoming in, you know, and going
(37:55):
standing up at the bar, openingup my laptop, and starting right
in on the day's work, ofstopping, talking to the sous
chef, put away some produce withhim, have a cup of coffee, and
just catch up.
SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
And I guess I wish I knew like there was some sort of
like video game display.
SPEAKER_03 (38:20):
But it was like, how many points is that worth?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (38:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (38:24):
Because I think that that I'm because no, but I'm
thinking back and I'm like, whenI worked at French Laundry,
nobody ever, you know, the ownerdidn't come and do that.
When I worked at a restaurantGary Danko, the owner didn't
come and do that.
When I worked at a restaurantAugust, sometimes, you know, the
executive chef there, an owner,would come in and bullshit with
me and do that.
And that was, you know, somebodyI had a great relationship with
(38:46):
and still do to this day.
And so, you know, there'ssomething, even though I it's my
natural mentality to not do thatand discount that, um, that's
something that it's notunpleasant, but I see it as
inconvenient, where I should seeit as probably an essential job
(39:08):
function, you know, and itprobably has as much or more, or
maybe less, but it probably has,you know, a similar effect as
the one-on-ones do of keepingthe lines of communication open.
And it and even more than that,detracting from any sort of
(39:29):
fear, resentment, disaffection,anything like that that the
person may have.
Because you know, he if I if Iblaze right by with a curt good
morning, and I'm hearing myself,I'm describing myself doing
something that I unfortunatelydo pretty often with a curt good
morning, go straight to the bartop, open up my laptop, and go
(39:51):
straight to work.
He may just feel like afactotum, you know, and just
another um work.
unknown (40:00):
be.
SPEAKER_01 (40:00):
Yeah.
But it's tough for me to it'stough for me to slow down and do
that.
SPEAKER_03 (40:07):
You know, among other things, on the drive on
the eight minute drive to work,I've already got a list going in
my head of stuff that I'm behindon that I need to get in there
and freaking bang out.
So so yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:21):
Yeah.
I wonder what kind of delegationwould come out of those
one-on-ones and what kind ofempowerment would come out of
those one-on-ones.
SPEAKER_03 (40:31):
Yeah, I I I do too.
Most of them are with prettylongstanding employees, you
know, and the person I'mthinking of right now, you know,
has an has an expert at theposition above his who probably
isn't going anywhere.
So there's no real chance forupward upward mobility.
(40:51):
You know, just got a big raise,has a has a you know 55 hour
work week and a and a full fullload of work.
So I think probablystrengthening that
relationships, emotional ties isprobably the best thing.
And then from that wouldprobably evolve of his own
(41:17):
ideation and volition some ideasfor delegation.
Because that's that's what I atthe level of a lot of my
managers who have, you know, soI can think of several who have
been here been with us three,four and five years.
I'm at the point now of needingthem to realize that they can do
(41:39):
that they've gotten moreefficient, you know, doing the
same job, doing the same dutiesrelatively for three, four, or
five years.
I need them to step forward, youknow, start to hold themselves
to a higher standard and say,hey, I can take on more what can
I take off your plate?
And I I heard this, man, who didI hear this from the other day?
Oh, Scott Galloway, you know,he's doing one of one of his
advice podcasts and somebodycalled in and said, you know,
(42:00):
I'm just starting my entry levelposition out of college or
whatever.
And he said, if you want to moveahead, go to your boss, find out
his least favorite task and askhow you can do that for him.
You know, make yourselfindispensable to him in that
way.
And I thought that was such afantastic take.
I would freaking love it ifsomebody did that for me.
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
Love it.
What are you taking away fromthis conversation today?
I need to figure out how to makesome of these self-realizations
(42:42):
stick.
SPEAKER_03 (42:43):
You know, and not just be gonna get up and
meditate in the morning 10minutes and you know once every
three weeks it's a fantasticsession where I'm fully present
not thinking about the day notthinking about what I'm gonna
make the kids for breakfast andtruly present right and and
(43:05):
reach another state.
And then it ends wake up thekids, feed the dogs, feed the
kids, let's get out the door forfor school so what can I take
from this conversation that isgoing to last it's gonna it's
(43:29):
gonna stick with me.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
I think I I think it's twofold because I what I
realized last night was that Icannot commit myself to this I
mean it was only you know itwasn't even a full kitchen
workday.
SPEAKER_03 (43:50):
It was eight hours in the kitchen you know my day
had started five hours before myworkday started five hours
before that but it was eighthours in the kitchen of that I
could not walk away from thatstation I was fully responsible
for that kitchen from prep tostaff meal to service to to shut
down and you know orders andeverything and I just don't have
I can do that I can do that or Ican run the businesses and
(44:15):
maintain relationships with theother professionals in this
organization and treat them asthey deserve to be treated.
I cannot do both and that's whatwas had me pulling out my hair
um last night there's I meanright before service I almost
turned to the manager I was likelook I cannot make any more
decisions today you have to andthat is and you have to stop
asking me questions.
(44:35):
I don't want to talk to anyguests I don't want to hear
anything which is the absoluteworst thing for me to do you
know as the owner and the leaderbut that's the point that I was
at um having been spread sothin.
SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
So I think what I would like to do and I thought
about this late last night afterI got home and was decompressing
was probably have a summit withall of my executives explain to
them what I'm planning to dogoing forward for the business
(45:12):
the reasons that I cannot coverthese shifts anymore and now
after this conversation I canreasonably and comprehensively
and comprehensively explain tothem why it is in their best
interest that I not do thoseshifts anymore and that you know
(45:35):
on a personal on a personallevel I can slow down and stop
and have a coffee and put awaysome produce talk to them about
this and come work on a specialyeah is it uncomfortable okay
(45:59):
good good you talked aboutearlier keeping your long
tenured managers engaged andmanaging their workload, their
productivity but helping themunderstand what they can start
to delegate and letting go ofsome things and what you're
talking about is modeling thatbehavior for them.
And there's a lot ofvulnerability in that and saying
(46:20):
I got to let go of this andhere's what here's what this
looks like going forward andhere's what I need from you all
because this is what I need forme.
Yeah that's great.
Great job Brandon thank you foryour time I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03 (46:34):
Yeah I enjoy that immensely thanks good never I
never talk that much I nevertalk about myself that much so
that was uh that was delightful.
SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
Good I'm so glad thank you for your time really
thank you for diving into thisso deeply and and coming on the
show really um appreciate youhelping me introduce this
concept of coaching to to thehospitality industry.
So um your restaurant looksabsolute absolutely gorgeous and
stunning and I can't wait to getout there to North Carolina and
check it out.
(47:01):
So um that is going to do it forus this week everybody please
share this episode with anyonein the industry that you know
who could benefit and we'll talkto you next week.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!