January 13, 2025 • 47 mins
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What’s the secret to running a restaurant that not only survives but thrives for decades?
Join us as Casey Wills, president of Argo Land and Cattle Company, reveals how curiosity, service, and a commitment to problem-solving have propelled his leadership and kept his restaurants thriving despite industry challenges. With a career spanning over two decades, Casey's journey from understanding discipline in college to becoming a leader in the restaurant world is inspiring. Listeners will gain insights into his mindset of leadership, which focuses on problem-solving and supporting others, and how it has been pivotal in running thriving restaurant businesses despite the challenges of the industry.
Efficiency and sustainability are critical for modern restaurants to thrive. Tools like those offered by Restaurant Technologies can transform back-of-house operations through innovations like automated oil management, which saves time, reduces waste, and ensures consistency in food quality. These kinds of solutions empower restaurants to focus more on delivering exceptional guest experiences and less on time-consuming operational tasks. Learn more at RTI-Inc.com.
Pinnacle Peak, a beloved Tucson restaurant since the 1960s, embodies the evolution of adapting to consumer tastes while maintaining a robust guest experience. Learn how this iconic spot, famous for its tie-cutting tradition and mesquite-cooked steaks, has diversified its menu and employed unique strategies, like Trellis Town, to remain competitive. We delve into the impact of seasonal fluctuations and national competition, emphasizing the resilience required to keep a restaurant vibrant and successful.
Chapters:
00:00:08 - Adapting Restaurants While Staying True
00:13:18 - Evolving Business Trends for Restaurants
00:21:52 - Reviving Charlestown and Jell-O'S Tables
00:27:18 - Leadership Development and Networking Perspectives
00:36:48 - Building Camaraderie in Leadership Challenges
Leadership development and networking are at the heart of Casey's approach to fostering growth within his team. By leveraging the power of peer advisory groups a
P.S. Ready to take your restaurant to the next level? Here are 3 ways I can support you:
- One-on-One Coaching - Work directly with me to tackle your biggest leadership challenges and scale your operations with confidence. Learn more at christinmarvin.com
- Multi-Unit Mastery Book - Get the complete Independent Restaurant Framework that's helped countless owners build thriving multi-location brands. Grab your copy at https://www.IRFbook.com
- Group Coaching & Leadership Workshops - Join other passionate restaurant leaders in transformative group sessions designed to elevate your entire team. Details at christinmarvin.com
Podcast Production: https://www.lconno
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
today's episode is all about how to adapt your
restaurant while still stayingtrue to your core concept.
Today I'm talking to caseywills, president of argo land
and cattle company in tucson,arizona, which is better known
as pinnacle, peak Steakhouse, elCorral, prime Rib House, savoy
Opera House and Trail Dust Town.
(00:28):
Casey has been in therestaurant industry for more
than 25 years and is jack of alltrades master of none.
Today, casey and I are going totake a deep dive into how his
curiosity as a leader has helpedhim be successful in the
restaurant business, how heinvests in himself as a leader
and how he's been able to shiftthe company's mindset and his
(00:49):
mindset to help them thriveafter being open since 1962.
This is a discussion about abusiness model that I have never
seen before and that isabsolutely fascinating.
There's a ton of value in thisepisode.
Hope you enjoy.
Welcome to the RestaurantLeadership Podcast, the show
where restaurant leaders learntools, tactics and habits from
(01:12):
the world's greatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,with Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
(01:37):
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
like to hear about, leadershiplessons you want to learn and
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
(02:01):
.
Casey, you are a wealth ofknowledge when it comes to the
hospitality industry and I havelearned so much from you already
.
You are such a curious person,though.
Have you always been curious,or how did that come to be?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yes.
Short version is yes, I need toknow how things work, why they
work.
That's, you know, maybe that'sthe feels like, that's some you
know, some sort of family oforigin kind of stuff that I'm
already mentioning.
But basically is that I likethe way that I process the world
(02:39):
is understanding how it works.
So it ends up meaning that Iget really curious about things.
How it works.
So it ends up meaning that Iget really curious about things
and, um, if it's learning how toyou know to do something
restaurant based, great.
If it's just knowing howsomething else works in the
world, I don't like not knowingand I don't like being confused.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah.
Where did that come from?
How did you develop that skill?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It feels like it's um , you know, it probably feels
like learning in school worldalways kind of came.
It was generally fairly easy.
For me that sounds bad.
I'm not trying to beegotistical or something.
I was one of those kids thatdidn't have to study and then
got to the point where you kindof need to study, no matter how
(03:23):
smart you think you are, but Ihaven't developed all those
skills yet.
So the you know for the firstyear of college was interesting
because it was like, oh wait, Ineed to actually have honed a
bunch of study skills that I donot have.
So when learning and how to dostuff, and being a know-it-all.
that was generally that's how Ilearned how to do it and you
(03:47):
know, saying I didn't know, Ididn't know, I didn't know was
not comfortable for me.
I'm now fine with it.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Do you feel like you lack some discipline when you
transition to college?
And then you were like, oh mygosh, now I have to start
actually studying.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh for sure, 100% actually studying.
Oh for sure, A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It is also is that, at the time of my life.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It was the lack of discipline, for sure, at least
in terms of things that were, um, things that came easy to me,
it was fine, you know.
Or things I was interested inwas fine, you know.
I don't think I missed work,you know what I mean.
I was working full-time andgoing to school full-time and it
wasn't a big deal to um to tobalance that part of it.
It was more about, yeah, youreally need to sit down and like
(04:29):
study before this test, or it'sgoing to go poorly and it's
like or it could just not.
So the the discipline kind ofcame um later in life when I
realized that, um,procrastinating was not helping
and as much as I thought I wasclever for like, well, I was
(04:49):
doing my best work in the 11thhour, so why would I bother
working and doing anything?
I'll just jump in, I'll befresh, I'll knock it out, like
why bother with all this stuffbefore I get there?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Did you teach yourself that lesson or did you
have some help?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
No, I had to.
I mean life, but I taughtmyself that lesson.
It was basically that, well,this is not, I'm not getting the
results I want, so something'sgot to give.
And then it became like, yes,studying is lame, but ultimately
I have to do it.
So, yeah, you go writing checks.
(05:26):
But I couldn to do it.
So, yeah, you go writing checks.
By the couldn't cash situation,I think, if you want to move
your reference.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Totally.
How has that curiosity helpedyou be successful in the
restaurant business?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Sure, it's the restaurant industry.
I find I've been in it foralmost 26 years and there's
always something new to learn orfire put out or something.
So, being a person that likeshelping others and likes being
(05:58):
of service to other people,either that I care about, either
that I care of or I'mresponsible for, or what have
you is people asking me how tofix a problem and if I don't
know the answer, that doesn'twork well in my worldview of
wanting to help people andtrying to help them.
(06:19):
So when it relates to thecompany is we're in.
Primarily most of our revenuecomes from steakhouse kind of
sales.
But both steakhouses do notoperate like a normal restaurant
.
They don't have a normalbrigade style kitchen that
everything comes out of with afull culinary team.
It's not.
They don't work like that andthat's a bunch of the revenue of
(06:44):
the company a little some of.
The other one is basicallycatering and then the rest of it
is an amusement park and acommercial landlord kind of
situation.
So kind of by means of survival.
I had to learn more about howto do it so we didn't have to
outsource it.
It's a small family company.
We didn't have the resources tojust say, oh, call the guy,
(07:07):
call somebody to take care ofthat.
It's like no, we got to figurethis out right now.
So ended up being curiosity tohow do I learn how to fix this
problem so if it ever comes upagain, I can address it, or how
do I make sure that I don't havethat problem again?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
basically, so a little bit of survival curiosity
will you talk a little bit moreabout your steakhouse model,
sure, and how it works?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
yeah.
So we've got, um, we have two,uh two main brands that we do.
One's called pinnacle peaksteakhouse, the other one's
called El Corral Primary House.
Most people just know it as ElCorral.
(07:54):
So Pinnacle Peak has an unusualmodel for a few different
reasons.
First and foremost, it's afamily-friendly, casual
steakhouse and it's the onlysteakhouse I'm aware of that is
dedicated to fun.
So one of the things is tryingto figure out, you know, to get
clarity around what it is thatyou do or that you sell.
And Pinnacle Peak sells fun.
(08:16):
They do that through steaks andcutting your tie off and all
that stuff.
But really what they offer topeople is brain chemicals
through the version of fun.
So the restaurant has fivedining rooms and it actually has
five grills and the grills allkind of work as almost an
(08:36):
independent kitchen from eachother.
So each one is a team.
So a griller will have what'scalled a pitter that they work
with.
There's not a great equivalent.
Sort of like an assistant, sortof like a pantry, sort of like
a sous, it's all these things,but it's not really any of them.
(08:57):
So the griller is going to betheir own expediter, they're
going to be their own main cookand everything comes off of
there and they work with that.
They're then partnered with, orteamed with, a certain number
of servers to have a certainnumber of tables on a on a big
(09:20):
night that might be it's usuallyup to about eight, maybe 10
servers, each having four tofive tables.
So one griller is in charge of,say, 50 tables or, you know, 25
tables or something like that.
So each of them workindependently and the there's a
(09:40):
central kitchen where you canget your salads and that kind of
stuff from.
But all all the specialty itemsyou know, your steaks, main
center plate, all of that allcome off the grill.
So one of the things that getsinteresting about that is and we
have a workaround for a pointof sale system the server when
they bring in their food theyneed to direct it to the
(10:02):
appropriate grill in therestaurant, so they don't just
fire an order and it figures itout.
If they've been partnered with,say, grill three we're very
creative what we call thesethings then they know that all
night long they need to fire theorders to grow three
specifically.
And then let's say you have aguest come in that knows the
(10:26):
griller on grill two.
Then they say well, we really.
His name's Brian.
He's almost always there.
He's been with us 30 some oddyears.
They'd say, well, I want Brianto cook for me tonight.
I'd say no problem, they'dbring in the order as normal and
fire it to Brian instead of therest of the restaurant and then
(10:48):
they can have Brian cook forthem tonight.
So as a model that makes thatkind of everything else funnels
out from there, there's one prepcook that preps in the morning,
starts up the beans, getseverything else, so it's ready
basically to hit the grill andgo out to the guests.
This particular model is itworks for up to about 3000
(11:13):
people in a shift, an eight hourshift.
So the restaurant seats about500.
So you can turn the restaurantmultiple, multiple times with
this model and the ticket timesmultiple times with this model
and the ticket times, turn times, everything is still normal, so
to speak.
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You guys took over.
(13:19):
Remind me, took over or openedPinnacle Peak in 1965?
.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The restaurant opened in 1962.
Our company took over theoperation and ownership in the
mid-60s, somewhere right inthere, somewhere 64, 65.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And has the model always stayed the same?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Pretty close.
The thing that's changedthrough the times in terms of
the model is it kind of had toevolve a bit with the times in
terms of the model is it kind ofhad to change.
It had to evolve a bit with thetimes to reflect people's, you
know, changing tastes.
But the core models is prettymuch unchanged.
If you wear a tie-in, they'regoing to cut it off because it's
part of the fun.
If you are going to havesomebody cooking on real
(14:01):
mesquite wood, the main cutsthat we offer of beef are
largely unchanged.
Still.
T-bones and porterhouses iskind of the main thing that we
offer.
The rest of it is of courseevolved in terms of we have to
offer chicken, we have to offerfish and salmon, we have to
(14:26):
offer vegetables aside from justbeans.
Those things have added onthrough times.
But by and large, if you hadcome in in 1963 and you came in
today, the experience is notthat different.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
How have you guys, I mean, talk a little bit about
business trends since 1965 andwe can focus more on?
You know, I know you're so wellversed on the entire company
but, like, maybe it makes moresense to focus on the last.
You know 20, 20 plus years thatyou've been in the business,
like, has business always beengreat?
I mean, there's there's thiswild seasonality of tucson.
(15:03):
You know, like how talk alittle bit about how, how
business has been up, how whenbusiness has been down, and how
you've you've adjusted, you guyshave adjusted for that.
And and speak a little bit toum what you do in summertime and
how you survive, cause it is,it is absolutely brutal here.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yes, it is, so the restaurant is part of it.
So, in terms of the popularityof the restaurant, we of course
have to monitor things likerevenue, just to keep an eye on
bank accounts and cash.
But really the company isfocused on guest counts.
That's really.
We have a volume model with lowmargin.
(15:44):
So that means we need Peoplecoming in and having fun every
day, having a great time.
So the restaurant has been herefor 62 years and it means that
it has seen Tucson grow up andchange around it.
(16:05):
So when it first opened the mainroad that we're on, it was a
dirt road, opened the road, themain road that we're on, it was
a dirt road and now it's asix-lane road that's a major
thoroughfare to get across thecity.
So in comparison to where weare today, we don't have as much
(16:27):
of the market share as we didbecause there are so many more
competitors in the market.
So we can kind of draw lines toa few kind of points in time
when things shifted and that wesaw, like we can point to a
couple of those.
So not unlike a lot of places,is that like 9-11 was not
(16:52):
specific because of the eventbut because of all the things
that came along afterwards withrecessions and whatnot.
That marked the June of 2001.
The restaurant served 3,000people at Father's Day and that
was the highest guest count tothat point and it's the highest
guest count to that point, andis the highest, gets counted in
(17:13):
one day to get the company everhad.
so from that point then there'sa few few kind of moments in
time through the through afterthat that we could kind of point
to go up.
We lost a little market sharethere, and the moments that
happened like that tended to be.
(17:33):
You know, competitors movedinto the market I can't remember
what year it was, but Tucsonwas reportedly hit a million
people, and when it hits thesecertain magical thresholds
national accounts go well it hitthe metrics that we use to move
into a market.
(17:53):
They move into the market, andso now there were only locally
owned cowboy steakhouses inTucson prior to I can't remember
what year, it was about 2010 orso.
And then all the national steakhouses all showed up and of
course we're going to lose somemarket share for them, for
(18:15):
whatever.
So, uh, where is evolved?
And how we're staying relevanttoday is by focusing in on the
experience that we offer andtrying to make it as fun as we
can.
Um, people, you know, uh, asteak that is not cooked the way
you want it is not fun, andhaving to talk about that is not
(18:39):
fun.
So if it comes out the way youwant, it tastes great.
You're having a good time.
So we try to focus on that.
Look for the same thing thatall restaurants do.
Yes, we try to look at costs,but you can't save your way out
of trouble.
You can only work on bringingmore guests in.
That's the top line.
It's the fastest way to growanything.
And then also is PedicoPete islocated within something called
(19:04):
Trellis Town and it's not anamusement park, it's a
destination.
It's not an amusement park,it's a destination.
One of the ways that we havebeen able to pivot through all
these changes is by usingChildless Town to help drive
attention and business into therestaurant.
It used to be the other wayaround.
Childless Town used to be aplace to occupy here to make it
(19:28):
a wait not seem as bad.
Now we actually use it as athing to drive business into the
restaurant.
So interesting yeah.
So the summertime is is rough.
Tucson restaurants, I think, Ithink, if I the number I believe
I've heard is that they tend tolose 30% of their guests.
(19:49):
In comparison, like it's thatbig of a swing.
So we basically, you know, wetry to batten down the hatches a
little bit.
Our model is such that you knowI mentioned we have five dining
rooms, five grills.
We can actually make therestaurant essentially smaller
(20:10):
whenever we need to actuallymake the restaurant essentially
smaller whenever we need to.
So because of the way it'sdesigned, we don't have to
operate five dining rooms allsummer long with all the added
overhead, associated payrollcosts.
We go oh, we're looking quiettonight and we know we're going
to be quiet, so we're only goingto open one of our dining rooms
.
So that means we only have, youknow, the team shrinks down to
(20:35):
be appropriate for that level ofbusiness.
That methodology generally worksfor us.
You know people have a tendencyto take vacation in summer.
We look for special eventopportunities to do the same
thing, to try to drive businessin, event opportunities to do
the same thing to try to drivebusiness in.
We do all those things andreally, as far as the way that
(20:59):
we do.
It is we try to have such astrong season that we, you know,
put a lot of air in the tires,so to speak, so that by the time
we get to the end of Septemberthat we're ready, we're okay,
we're safe, and that we comeback around to gas up the tires.
I don't know where I was goingwith that metaphor.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I think it's going to mix those pretty well.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, you're going to lose some air in the summertime
, right, yeah.
So what made you guys make thatmindset shift and what you were
talking about earlier as far asPinnacle Peak really being the
draw for Trail Dust Town, butnow Trail Dust Town being the
draw for the steakhouse?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It came down to wait times.
So one of the things we raninto is that.
So the restaurant has been herefor 60 years.
Trail Dust Town has been herefor 60 years and it used to be
back in the 80s for especiallyfolks on the east side of Tucson
.
This is what you did Fridaynight.
(21:54):
Saturday, one of those twonights you went to the Tinkeroo
Swap Meet that used to be onTinkerbirdie and is now on Palo
Verde, and then you went toPinnacle Peak for dinner.
That was your Friday night wasplanned every week, and so the
wait times on Fridays andSaturdays especially were two to
three hours.
Weekdays they were two to threehours.
(22:16):
They were doing six to 800guests.
On a Monday night by clockwork,um, they would, uh, the the
(22:38):
managers who were ordering andreceiving steaks daily were
getting would get static fromthe administrative office If
they had more than about threesteaks on the shelf.
When they closed they weregetting a talking to about why
are their steaks on the shelf.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And, generally speaking, they had nights where
they would nail it, the lastguest would not, would order the
last steak and not be directedto it because we're out of
everything.
Just they were getting thatgood about it.
So when the wait times wentfrom being, you know, two hours
every single night to being, youcould walk in anytime you
wanted.
You know, maybe Saturday nightsix o'clock you'd have to wait a
(23:10):
little bit.
I came into my position and itwas like, okay, what do we do
now?
Charlestown has always been aloss leader because it was in
service to the restaurant and itwas part of your restaurant
experience.
So now, what do we do when wedon't have the wait times that
helped to bring the loss laterto not be quite as much of a
(23:33):
loss.
And the other thing is, withboth places I haven't been here
for so long Everyone knew aboutPinnacle Peak but no one knew
about Jell-O's Tables.
So we said let's work onbringing the branding up for
Jell-O's Tables, get that brandawareness up so that we can we
kind of had two engines on thatplane, right and bring people to
(23:55):
us.
And then it's funny because weactually did.
Apparently we did a great jobwith Charlestown, at least
amongst certain folks, where nowthey know all about Charlestown
, don't know anything about therestaurant, which was has been
weird, I'll just say that.
So when, when we saw that thewait times were down and we were
having to look at guest countsdropping, you know, in
(24:18):
comparison year to year, we hadto do something.
So we said what assets do wehave?
We've got this gigantic asset,let's go for it.
So we started using that todrive, to try to, as a marketing
agent, to try to drive business.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Nice.
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Now let's get back to the show.
Are you seeing that people arestill willing to wait?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yes, yep, still willing to um if we uh, you know
a good Saturday night andwhatnot two hour waits.
We're stressed out in our mindsabout it because it's just a
really long time to ask somebodyto wait for a table.
But we don't usually get toomuch pushback about it, which is
sort of surprising, becauseasking anyone to wait for two
(25:40):
hours at any restaurant inTucson at any time, that people,
it's crazy around here.
Yeah, people don't makereservations, they just walk in
and expect to be seen.
I don't know if you've noticedthat.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I have.
But that's the beauty of beinga destination spot right and
having the history that you guyshave and you know we can
celebrate you for you know,single handedly saving Trail,
dust Town, it's true.
Wildest town, it's true.
So let's talk a little bitabout the tenure of your
(26:13):
leadership team.
You said Brian's been there onthe grill for 30 years.
How about your management team?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, so our food and beverage director.
She just moved to that positionin May of this year.
She has been with the companyoff and on for about 20 years
and she was the general managerof Pinnacle Peak for 12 years
and she had been a manager forup to maybe 14, 15 years.
(26:42):
So she came to the company as aserver, actually left the
company for a brief period oftime.
She was interested in going tomanagement.
There wasn't a positionavailable.
She went outside the company,which worked out for us, because
she went to a national companythat had a very strong training
(27:03):
program, got a ton of trainingand then came back to us because
she couldn't quite get the restof her blood and the couldn't
quite get the restaurant out ofher blood and the position
became available.
So after they.
So she's been with us that long.
Her counterpart, her assistantat that restaurant, who's now
the manager, has been with usabout probably eight to ten
(27:25):
years.
She came up through bartendingand then came into it.
That way, the supervisor thereit's a three-person management
team, two salary, one hourly.
It's kind of the same as it.
He's been a server there for 18years and he does managing,
supervising and serving theother restaurant we just kind of
(27:50):
went through.
Our previous general managerhad been with the company for 42
years and she retired inFebruary of this year.
So we had to kind of backfillthat because somebody taking
with them 42 years of kind ofinstitutional knowledge is a
(28:12):
huge, huge loss.
So we backfilled from there.
We just had some folks comeinto play.
The average tenure at thatrestaurant is about seven years,
from disher all the way up tothe manager.
So a lot of the people.
We didn't lose anybody in thattransition in terms of you know
(28:35):
cause that happens.
You have a big managementchange, you're going to usually
have some nutrition.
Just, you know, I don't likethis person or it makes people
pick their head up and think,ooh, is this the right fit for
me.
We didn't actually lose anybodyin transition.
Now the new people new managerthere has been there since
October.
Supervisor he actually isworking, is learning,
(28:58):
supervising and is nowsupervising at one restaurant
but grills at the other one andthe assistant manager has been
was actually came out of thekitchen and he's been there
probably 15 years or so, so kindof brought that along.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
That's incredible.
What?
What is your guys's approach todevelopment of your leaders?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Sure, it's nothing formal, something that's been on
my radar to make a formalprocess for a while, but then
the Ferris wheel breaks and Ihave to go fix it.
That's a literal example.
So, from from a developmentstandpoint, it's basically is
(29:43):
that historically it's been, youknow, kind of for like a better
term school with hard knocks.
There.
We've tried getting a lot ofsupport in terms of you know,
okay, what do you guys need?
How can we help?
Then, as I've, you know, kindof learned more and more, I'll
share what I know with themanytime we have a meeting.
So it's kind of ongoing, be itone-on-one or small group, that
(30:05):
just doing training, pretty muchongoing.
More recently we had our foodbeverage director.
A new program managementtraining program became
available in tucson becausethere's just not a ton of them
to begin with.
So we enrolled her in thatprogram and so she's been in it.
Now it just launched inseptember so she's been to two,
(30:29):
three meetings and and the goalof that, of having her go
through that program, is to getall the sort of business
training that goes far beyondwhat you do it's just running a
restaurant from shift to shiftor even month to month is
getting all that real baselinetraining.
(30:49):
So we're kind of having herpilot it.
If that goes well, which seemsto be fine so far, then we'll
extend that out to the one leveldown, so to speak, and then
we're looking for somethingslightly more formal or regular
to provide to the rest of thetraining, the rest of the team,
(31:12):
and to try to build outsomething more formal To
hopefully have folks that are onthe team that are interested in
management but they haven'ttold anybody that they kind of
identify themselves beyond justbeing a leader on the floor or
what have you.
So I'm hoping to createsomething more formal, but
(31:32):
currently it's just, you know,chatting with them and trying to
work through situations as theyarise.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, I love it.
The organic approach isincredible.
It's all about connection andcustomizing it to exactly what
they need, which is great, rightand what they want.
Can I ask who the managementtraining program is through?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, it's a group called Three Pillars Performance
.
Okay, there's a peer advisorygroup out there.
It's called Vistage and I gotinvolved with that a few years
ago and that has been mostly myprofessional development.
Stuff is kind of what thatprogram is.
(32:12):
That's why I'm a member of itand the group that we have the
chairpersons with the title ofit and the cult is that they
created a management trainingprogram.
It's like a monthly kind ofthing that they created to go
through that and that's kind oflike a general training program.
It's like a monthly kind ofthing that they created to go
(32:32):
through that and that's kind oflike a general business training
.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Is it hospitality specific or just general
business?
Overall Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
And one of the things that could be helpful about it
is that, like hospitality isweird I'm sure you've run into
that that the challenges that weface.
It's just kind of moreinteresting, I guess you'd say,
than some of the people, butit's always fascinating how the
(33:05):
the flavorings of might bedifferent, but the core issue is
the same across all this isthat you know, maybe the
immediacy when we have toaddress problems or customer
service or whatnot is isdifferent, or that we're opening
a restaurant every night onspeculation.
You know we're going doing allthis work.
People have been working fordays and weeks to open and hope
(33:27):
that people come out to dinnerand there's only so much you can
do if they decide not to dothat night.
So what I kind of like aboutthat program, especially for
somebody that's at a directorylevel, is that they're not just
spending time really immersed inrestaurant world and kind of
having their horizons broadenedWith.
(33:50):
You know if there might be, Ithink, in her group.
I remember hearing that therewas some folks from the
construction industry.
So problems are the same, butthen they can have a completely
different perspective of it ortheir you know new connections
into our local community andlearning how construction works,
not by on purpose, but sort ofalmost by osmosis.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Got it.
How are you investing in yourown leadership development in
your position?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It's primarily in time and, in this, this
particular group.
One of the things that'shelpful with it is that there's
speakers every month and thetopics tend to get.
They're not really hospitalityspecific, they're just more like
general business.
So I have a tendency to read alot and then or try to anyway,
whenever I find time where Ididn't fall asleep before I had
(34:43):
a chance to read something.
I am reading a very good bookright now.
You might know the author.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Don't do it, shameless plug.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well, I, you know, I read I read 30 pages last night
cause I hit a section that I wasnot anticipating.
To see that level ofvulnerability, I was like I'm
not putting this down right nowanyway.
So, but I tend to do that kindof thing, and then the group,
that particular group I'm in,has a lot of opportunities.
Um, you know, be it to uh donetworking and connection, but
(35:19):
not networking to try to getmore sales or something.
Um networking to um try tolearn more.
So, um, like this afternoonwe're uh, there's a small group
that we're going to be chattingabout.
Uh, one guy is in the financialworld and the other person is
does insurance and like multi,multi-unit housing construction.
(35:43):
So I'll do nothing hospitalityrelated, but I get the
opportunity to learn how youknow what these other industries
go through and find out whatapplies.
You know what applies and whatdoesn't.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, I mean, how has being a part of a group like
that really?
I mean it's, it's sounds likeit's offering you a lot of
different perspectives that youcan apply to business.
But if you could narrow down,um like in single out one or two
great impacts that that's hadon the business, what, what
would you, what would you callout?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, yeah, um, the ones that I would say are that
is it ends up being thebroadening perspective and that,
um, like one of the things thatthey talk about, I guess the
the single biggest thing is that?
Um which?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I kind of had a sense of.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
But I didn't.
I didn't really as long as Ikind of like we've all
businesses it really is, andit's even beyond that is that
like kind of the human conditionis fairly universal and it's a.
It's been an interestingexperience of you know what.
If you're talking to anattorney, for example, right,
(36:51):
and they're a very successfulattorney and they have a famous
firm, they're doing great right,and you're talking to them and
they'll be sharing some sort ofstress they've got and the
stress, whatever the stressor is, is the same.
And it's not like you shouldn'tcompare yourself to others, but
(37:14):
it was sort of interesting andI'm like I've actually been
through that problem.
Here's what, here's how itlanded for me, here's what
worked, here's what didn't.
So to have it where more sothat those challenges are all
the same, and then to be likeit's really easy to build up
whatever problem you're dealingwith into being the biggest
problem in the world, and thenyou chat with somebody and then
(37:36):
again you shouldn't compare itbecause that's not a good way to
live, but you go, wow, yeah,this person's problem is way
bigger deal right now and it cankind of help to put things in
perspective.
So, from that aspect doingleadership stuff it can be
really challenging to see that.
(38:01):
So oftentimes you have to lookbeyond your own perspective to
see what's actually going on.
And so, from that kind ofconcept, is that's been really
having a group of people thatare the only thing we have in
common really?
Is this group, and that we'rein a similar position of our
respective companies, is reallyhelpful for that?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, I love that perspective and that aspect
because I've been a part ofsimilar community organizations
and just to know that somebodyelse is going through something
is really, it's just veryimpactful, it's very comforting,
it makes leadership feel lesslonely and it's incredible that.
You know, we're in thisindustry where we're serving
(38:42):
people every day and we'reconstantly in contact and
connection with people, butleadership can be very, very
lonely and groups like that arejust incredible, incredible
resources.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, and it also can get interesting too where, even
within, if it's say, thehospitality industry, right Like
so our company, we have about160 staff members and of that
you know, about 100 to 110 are,you know, part-time, and so in
my position we have a smalladministrative team, but I'm not
(39:16):
necessarily coming into contactwith 160 people every day Well,
at least staff members.
But when, in specific to ourown industry, if I'm in a group
of folks that are otherrestaurant people, they might
only have a single operation orthey might have a really small
(39:39):
business where you know they'vegot six people that run the
whole thing.
So it's not that the challengesare indifferent, but it's
sometimes the feeling ofcamaraderie isn't quite the same
when you're like well, yeahbut you know, the challenge I'm
facing is not.
It's not bigger or smaller,it's just different because it
involves 160 people, whereas theone they're dealing with is
(40:00):
like six.
So the challenge is the same,but the camaraderie feels a
little different when you know,like you know, you've worked on
the line before, so working onthe line is different to working
on the floor.
Yeah, they're not.
What you can depends on who youask which one's harder.
(40:21):
Yeah, you know, I maybe have myown opinions about that.
Yeah, I'd say the line butthat's also because I, you know,
I like cooking, I'm more of aback of house kind of person,
but I had to do front of housefor most of the career.
But the it ends up being isthat the feeling of camaraderie
(40:43):
you get is different.
So it's the same kind of thingwhen you go to all these groups
is, if you're chatting withsomeone that is a single unit
operator, that's got like, youknow, 10 people on the team and
they all hang out together andit's like a might be a literal
family, that feels differentthan if it's like, you know, I'm
not a big chain person, butchatting with someone that runs
a chain restaurant is alsodifferent.
(41:04):
So that's, the camaraderie isstill there, but it just feels
differently.
So that's where some of thesepeer advisory groups, that you
can get the same feelings, notnecessarily being in the same
industry.
Yeah, what's your biggestchallenge right now?
It's kind of the uncertaintyand instability that comes any
(41:27):
time there's, you know, kind ofchange.
That's been kind of where we'vebeen for the last five years or
so.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Like external change, you mean.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, internally it's all kind of the same.
We don't have a lot of changewithin the company in terms of
the brass tacks of what we do.
The biggest challenges are, atleast as a company is, basically
just figuring out how we adaptto this ever-changing landscape
while keeping what we do thesame the the restaurant, the
(42:03):
guests of the restaurant, tendto be wildly, wildly resistant
to any changes from what theyview as being their experience,
which is quite the compliment,but it's also really frustrating
sometimes because you know,perception is reality.
So we got read the riot act foran entire week, so a few years
(42:25):
ago, because the color of thebeans bowl changed.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
So not like people swore up and down, it's changed.
And the you know the serversare talking to them and going I
promise you, it's only the bowl.
It didn't change material, itchanged color.
And they swore up and down.
They didn't believe us and theywere like how dare you change
my experience?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Did you have to change the bowls back?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Uh-huh, wow, they literally changed the bulls back
and then a few of them justgoes by, and then we at the time
they were like a plastic kindof bull thing and they changed
from red to brown, I think itwas, and that was reasoned
because we were running low onone of them and we couldn't get
them.
They weren't available.
(43:12):
Yeah, eventually we found,found them, brought them back in
and they were all set.
Oh, the beans are back.
Same guy making them, samespice, same spices, same jar,
because when you make as manybeans as they do, you're not
buying spices, you know what Imean.
You're buying like 55 gallonthings of spices.
(43:34):
I mean everything is the same.
The only thing that changes isthe meat.
So that's kind of.
One of the challenges is how dowe adapt to ever changing times
while keeping this core conceptbasically as unchanging as we
can for our guests?
The kind of my own job or myperspective.
(43:55):
It's mainly getting trying toset up systems for myself, so
that I'm not that I have allowedtime for big scale projects,
things that are.
Basically, how do I make it sothat I have built in time to
allow for distractions and timeto not allow for distractions?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, what are one of those systems that you've been
able to implement?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
I mean one of those business the funny business term
they've got for it right nowdeep work, I think that's what
they call it.
So I've tried to do it whereI'll schedule into my day, just
like, okay, for an hour and ahalf I'm going to close my door
to my office and just plug awayat whatever this longer-term
(44:46):
schedule If it's writing aprocess or trying to dream up
what strategy is going to looklike, or okay, what is the goal
for next year I find it'sbecause that doesn't tend to be
my normal everyday kind ofstrength, like the way that I
feel about it, then I'msusceptible to, I'm more
(45:09):
susceptible to distraction.
So I have to like it takesdiscipline for me to sit for an
hour and a half and try to plugaway at like, okay, how are we
going to what?
It takes discipline for me tosit for an hour and a half and
try to plug away at like, okay,how are we going to?
What are we going to do nextyear to meet goals, or what are
the goals?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
What is?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
realistic what is not realistic.
So so far it's helped a littlebit, but because it's not
something that I would taketowards.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Puppies are present.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, and then they left my door open.
So that's cool, but they uh, um, uh, one of the uh is by you
know how to adhering to that,having the discipline to adhere
to that schedule.
So, yeah, all right, it's 83030 in the morning.
Restaurant's still open until 5.
(45:55):
It's just admin people.
I just tell them like hey, I'mgoing to work on a project until
10.
So only bother me if somethingreally can't wait until after 10
.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, I love it.
You're setting some boundaries,that's great.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Theoretically, the hardest part about boundaries is
adhering to them yourself.
Yeah, absolutely Theoreticallythe hardest part about
boundaries is adhering to themyourself.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Well, casey, I can't thank youenough for being here and
sharing all this knowledge withus.
Just super, super valuable info.
We'll put all the links to ElCorral and Pinnacle Peak and
Trail Dust Town in the shownotes, for sure, and Pinnacle
Peak and Trail Dust Town in theshow notes, for sure.
(46:37):
So if anybody if you'relistening get over there Friday
night, monday night, tuesdaynight, you've got a big event.
You want to ride the Ferriswheel?
You want to have your tie cutoff?
They're there for you, for sure.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
We will be there.
We're only closed Christmas dayand Thanksgiving day.
Otherwise, bring a tie if youdare.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I'd love it.
I'd love it.
All wise.
Bring a tie if you dare.
I'd love it.
I'd love it.
All right, everybody that'sgoing to do it for us this week,
Please share this episode withany leaders in the industry that
you think could benefit, andwe'll talk to you next week.
today's episode is all about how to adapt your
restaurant while still stayingtrue to your core concept.
Today I'm talking to caseywills, president of argo land
and cattle company in tucson,arizona, which is better known
as pinnacle, peak Steakhouse, elCorral, prime Rib House, savoy
Opera House and Trail Dust Town.
(00:28):
Casey has been in therestaurant industry for more
than 25 years and is jack of alltrades master of none.
Today, casey and I are going totake a deep dive into how his
curiosity as a leader has helpedhim be successful in the
restaurant business, how heinvests in himself as a leader
and how he's been able to shiftthe company's mindset and his
(00:49):
mindset to help them thriveafter being open since 1962.
This is a discussion about abusiness model that I have never
seen before and that isabsolutely fascinating.
There's a ton of value in thisepisode.
Hope you enjoy.
Welcome to the RestaurantLeadership Podcast, the show
where restaurant leaders learntools, tactics and habits from
(01:12):
the world's greatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,with Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
(01:37):
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
like to hear about, leadershiplessons you want to learn and
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
(02:01):
.
Casey, you are a wealth ofknowledge when it comes to the
hospitality industry and I havelearned so much from you already
.
You are such a curious person,though.
Have you always been curious,or how did that come to be?
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yes.
Short version is yes, I need toknow how things work, why they
work.
That's, you know, maybe that'sthe feels like, that's some you
know, some sort of family oforigin kind of stuff that I'm
already mentioning.
But basically is that I likethe way that I process the world
(02:39):
is understanding how it works.
So it ends up meaning that Iget really curious about things.
How it works.
So it ends up meaning that Iget really curious about things
and, um, if it's learning how toyou know to do something
restaurant based, great.
If it's just knowing howsomething else works in the
world, I don't like not knowingand I don't like being confused.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah.
Where did that come from?
How did you develop that skill?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It feels like it's um , you know, it probably feels
like learning in school worldalways kind of came.
It was generally fairly easy.
For me that sounds bad.
I'm not trying to beegotistical or something.
I was one of those kids thatdidn't have to study and then
got to the point where you kindof need to study, no matter how
(03:23):
smart you think you are, but Ihaven't developed all those
skills yet.
So the you know for the firstyear of college was interesting
because it was like, oh wait, Ineed to actually have honed a
bunch of study skills that I donot have.
So when learning and how to dostuff, and being a know-it-all.
that was generally that's how Ilearned how to do it and you
(03:47):
know, saying I didn't know, Ididn't know, I didn't know was
not comfortable for me.
I'm now fine with it.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Do you feel like you lack some discipline when you
transition to college?
And then you were like, oh mygosh, now I have to start
actually studying.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Oh for sure, 100% actually studying.
Oh for sure, A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It is also is that, at the time of my life.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
It was the lack of discipline, for sure, at least
in terms of things that were, um, things that came easy to me,
it was fine, you know.
Or things I was interested inwas fine, you know.
I don't think I missed work,you know what I mean.
I was working full-time andgoing to school full-time and it
wasn't a big deal to um to tobalance that part of it.
It was more about, yeah, youreally need to sit down and like
(04:29):
study before this test, or it'sgoing to go poorly and it's
like or it could just not.
So the the discipline kind ofcame um later in life when I
realized that, um,procrastinating was not helping
and as much as I thought I wasclever for like, well, I was
(04:49):
doing my best work in the 11thhour, so why would I bother
working and doing anything?
I'll just jump in, I'll befresh, I'll knock it out, like
why bother with all this stuffbefore I get there?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Did you teach yourself that lesson or did you
have some help?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
No, I had to.
I mean life, but I taughtmyself that lesson.
It was basically that, well,this is not, I'm not getting the
results I want, so something'sgot to give.
And then it became like, yes,studying is lame, but ultimately
I have to do it.
So, yeah, you go writing checks.
(05:26):
But I couldn to do it.
So, yeah, you go writing checks.
By the couldn't cash situation,I think, if you want to move
your reference.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Totally.
How has that curiosity helpedyou be successful in the
restaurant business?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Sure, it's the restaurant industry.
I find I've been in it foralmost 26 years and there's
always something new to learn orfire put out or something.
So, being a person that likeshelping others and likes being
(05:58):
of service to other people,either that I care about, either
that I care of or I'mresponsible for, or what have
you is people asking me how tofix a problem and if I don't
know the answer, that doesn'twork well in my worldview of
wanting to help people andtrying to help them.
(06:19):
So when it relates to thecompany is we're in.
Primarily most of our revenuecomes from steakhouse kind of
sales.
But both steakhouses do notoperate like a normal restaurant
.
They don't have a normalbrigade style kitchen that
everything comes out of with afull culinary team.
It's not.
They don't work like that andthat's a bunch of the revenue of
(06:44):
the company a little some of.
The other one is basicallycatering and then the rest of it
is an amusement park and acommercial landlord kind of
situation.
So kind of by means of survival.
I had to learn more about howto do it so we didn't have to
outsource it.
It's a small family company.
We didn't have the resources tojust say, oh, call the guy,
(07:07):
call somebody to take care ofthat.
It's like no, we got to figurethis out right now.
So ended up being curiosity tohow do I learn how to fix this
problem so if it ever comes upagain, I can address it, or how
do I make sure that I don't havethat problem again?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
basically, so a little bit of survival curiosity
will you talk a little bit moreabout your steakhouse model,
sure, and how it works?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
yeah.
So we've got, um, we have two,uh two main brands that we do.
One's called pinnacle peaksteakhouse, the other one's
called El Corral Primary House.
Most people just know it as ElCorral.
(07:54):
So Pinnacle Peak has an unusualmodel for a few different
reasons.
First and foremost, it's afamily-friendly, casual
steakhouse and it's the onlysteakhouse I'm aware of that is
dedicated to fun.
So one of the things is tryingto figure out, you know, to get
clarity around what it is thatyou do or that you sell.
And Pinnacle Peak sells fun.
(08:16):
They do that through steaks andcutting your tie off and all
that stuff.
But really what they offer topeople is brain chemicals
through the version of fun.
So the restaurant has fivedining rooms and it actually has
five grills and the grills allkind of work as almost an
(08:36):
independent kitchen from eachother.
So each one is a team.
So a griller will have what'scalled a pitter that they work
with.
There's not a great equivalent.
Sort of like an assistant, sortof like a pantry, sort of like
a sous, it's all these things,but it's not really any of them.
(08:57):
So the griller is going to betheir own expediter, they're
going to be their own main cookand everything comes off of
there and they work with that.
They're then partnered with, orteamed with, a certain number
of servers to have a certainnumber of tables on a on a big
(09:20):
night that might be it's usuallyup to about eight, maybe 10
servers, each having four tofive tables.
So one griller is in charge of,say, 50 tables or, you know, 25
tables or something like that.
So each of them workindependently and the there's a
(09:40):
central kitchen where you canget your salads and that kind of
stuff from.
But all all the specialty itemsyou know, your steaks, main
center plate, all of that allcome off the grill.
So one of the things that getsinteresting about that is and we
have a workaround for a pointof sale system the server when
they bring in their food theyneed to direct it to the
(10:02):
appropriate grill in therestaurant, so they don't just
fire an order and it figures itout.
If they've been partnered with,say, grill three we're very
creative what we call thesethings then they know that all
night long they need to fire theorders to grow three
specifically.
And then let's say you have aguest come in that knows the
(10:26):
griller on grill two.
Then they say well, we really.
His name's Brian.
He's almost always there.
He's been with us 30 some oddyears.
They'd say, well, I want Brianto cook for me tonight.
I'd say no problem, they'dbring in the order as normal and
fire it to Brian instead of therest of the restaurant and then
(10:48):
they can have Brian cook forthem tonight.
So as a model that makes thatkind of everything else funnels
out from there, there's one prepcook that preps in the morning,
starts up the beans, getseverything else, so it's ready
basically to hit the grill andgo out to the guests.
This particular model is itworks for up to about 3000
(11:13):
people in a shift, an eight hourshift.
So the restaurant seats about500.
So you can turn the restaurantmultiple, multiple times with
this model and the ticket timesmultiple times with this model
and the ticket times, turn times, everything is still normal, so
to speak.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
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You guys took over.
(13:19):
Remind me, took over or openedPinnacle Peak in 1965?
.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The restaurant opened in 1962.
Our company took over theoperation and ownership in the
mid-60s, somewhere right inthere, somewhere 64, 65.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
And has the model always stayed the same?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Pretty close.
The thing that's changedthrough the times in terms of
the model is it kind of had toevolve a bit with the times in
terms of the model is it kind ofhad to change.
It had to evolve a bit with thetimes to reflect people's, you
know, changing tastes.
But the core models is prettymuch unchanged.
If you wear a tie-in, they'regoing to cut it off because it's
part of the fun.
If you are going to havesomebody cooking on real
(14:01):
mesquite wood, the main cutsthat we offer of beef are
largely unchanged.
Still.
T-bones and porterhouses iskind of the main thing that we
offer.
The rest of it is of courseevolved in terms of we have to
offer chicken, we have to offerfish and salmon, we have to
(14:26):
offer vegetables aside from justbeans.
Those things have added onthrough times.
But by and large, if you hadcome in in 1963 and you came in
today, the experience is notthat different.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
How have you guys, I mean, talk a little bit about
business trends since 1965 andwe can focus more on?
You know, I know you're so wellversed on the entire company
but, like, maybe it makes moresense to focus on the last.
You know 20, 20 plus years thatyou've been in the business,
like, has business always beengreat?
I mean, there's there's thiswild seasonality of tucson.
(15:03):
You know, like how talk alittle bit about how, how
business has been up, how whenbusiness has been down, and how
you've you've adjusted, you guyshave adjusted for that.
And and speak a little bit toum what you do in summertime and
how you survive, cause it is,it is absolutely brutal here.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yes, it is, so the restaurant is part of it.
So, in terms of the popularityof the restaurant, we of course
have to monitor things likerevenue, just to keep an eye on
bank accounts and cash.
But really the company isfocused on guest counts.
That's really.
We have a volume model with lowmargin.
(15:44):
So that means we need Peoplecoming in and having fun every
day, having a great time.
So the restaurant has been herefor 62 years and it means that
it has seen Tucson grow up andchange around it.
(16:05):
So when it first opened the mainroad that we're on, it was a
dirt road, opened the road, themain road that we're on, it was
a dirt road and now it's asix-lane road that's a major
thoroughfare to get across thecity.
So in comparison to where weare today, we don't have as much
(16:27):
of the market share as we didbecause there are so many more
competitors in the market.
So we can kind of draw lines toa few kind of points in time
when things shifted and that wesaw, like we can point to a
couple of those.
So not unlike a lot of places,is that like 9-11 was not
(16:52):
specific because of the eventbut because of all the things
that came along afterwards withrecessions and whatnot.
That marked the June of 2001.
The restaurant served 3,000people at Father's Day and that
was the highest guest count tothat point and it's the highest
guest count to that point, andis the highest, gets counted in
(17:13):
one day to get the company everhad.
so from that point then there'sa few few kind of moments in
time through the through afterthat that we could kind of point
to go up.
We lost a little market sharethere, and the moments that
happened like that tended to be.
(17:33):
You know, competitors movedinto the market I can't remember
what year it was, but Tucsonwas reportedly hit a million
people, and when it hits thesecertain magical thresholds
national accounts go well it hitthe metrics that we use to move
into a market.
(17:53):
They move into the market, andso now there were only locally
owned cowboy steakhouses inTucson prior to I can't remember
what year, it was about 2010 orso.
And then all the national steakhouses all showed up and of
course we're going to lose somemarket share for them, for
(18:15):
whatever.
So, uh, where is evolved?
And how we're staying relevanttoday is by focusing in on the
experience that we offer andtrying to make it as fun as we
can.
Um, people, you know, uh, asteak that is not cooked the way
you want it is not fun, andhaving to talk about that is not
(18:39):
fun.
So if it comes out the way youwant, it tastes great.
You're having a good time.
So we try to focus on that.
Look for the same thing thatall restaurants do.
Yes, we try to look at costs,but you can't save your way out
of trouble.
You can only work on bringingmore guests in.
That's the top line.
It's the fastest way to growanything.
And then also is PedicoPete islocated within something called
(19:04):
Trellis Town and it's not anamusement park, it's a
destination.
It's not an amusement park,it's a destination.
One of the ways that we havebeen able to pivot through all
these changes is by usingChildless Town to help drive
attention and business into therestaurant.
It used to be the other wayaround.
Childless Town used to be aplace to occupy here to make it
(19:28):
a wait not seem as bad.
Now we actually use it as athing to drive business into the
restaurant.
So interesting yeah.
So the summertime is is rough.
Tucson restaurants, I think, Ithink, if I the number I believe
I've heard is that they tend tolose 30% of their guests.
(19:49):
In comparison, like it's thatbig of a swing.
So we basically, you know, wetry to batten down the hatches a
little bit.
Our model is such that you knowI mentioned we have five dining
rooms, five grills.
We can actually make therestaurant essentially smaller
(20:10):
whenever we need to actuallymake the restaurant essentially
smaller whenever we need to.
So because of the way it'sdesigned, we don't have to
operate five dining rooms allsummer long with all the added
overhead, associated payrollcosts.
We go oh, we're looking quiettonight and we know we're going
to be quiet, so we're only goingto open one of our dining rooms
.
So that means we only have, youknow, the team shrinks down to
(20:35):
be appropriate for that level ofbusiness.
That methodology generally worksfor us.
You know people have a tendencyto take vacation in summer.
We look for special eventopportunities to do the same
thing, to try to drive businessin, event opportunities to do
the same thing to try to drivebusiness in.
We do all those things andreally, as far as the way that
(20:59):
we do.
It is we try to have such astrong season that we, you know,
put a lot of air in the tires,so to speak, so that by the time
we get to the end of Septemberthat we're ready, we're okay,
we're safe, and that we comeback around to gas up the tires.
I don't know where I was goingwith that metaphor.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
I got you.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I think it's going to mix those pretty well.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, you're going to lose some air in the summertime
, right, yeah.
So what made you guys make thatmindset shift and what you were
talking about earlier as far asPinnacle Peak really being the
draw for Trail Dust Town, butnow Trail Dust Town being the
draw for the steakhouse?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
It came down to wait times.
So one of the things we raninto is that.
So the restaurant has been herefor 60 years.
Trail Dust Town has been herefor 60 years and it used to be
back in the 80s for especiallyfolks on the east side of Tucson
.
This is what you did Fridaynight.
(21:54):
Saturday, one of those twonights you went to the Tinkeroo
Swap Meet that used to be onTinkerbirdie and is now on Palo
Verde, and then you went toPinnacle Peak for dinner.
That was your Friday night wasplanned every week, and so the
wait times on Fridays andSaturdays especially were two to
three hours.
Weekdays they were two to threehours.
(22:16):
They were doing six to 800guests.
On a Monday night by clockwork,um, they would, uh, the the
(22:38):
managers who were ordering andreceiving steaks daily were
getting would get static fromthe administrative office If
they had more than about threesteaks on the shelf.
When they closed they weregetting a talking to about why
are their steaks on the shelf.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
And, generally speaking, they had nights where
they would nail it, the lastguest would not, would order the
last steak and not be directedto it because we're out of
everything.
Just they were getting thatgood about it.
So when the wait times wentfrom being, you know, two hours
every single night to being, youcould walk in anytime you
wanted.
You know, maybe Saturday nightsix o'clock you'd have to wait a
(23:10):
little bit.
I came into my position and itwas like, okay, what do we do
now?
Charlestown has always been aloss leader because it was in
service to the restaurant and itwas part of your restaurant
experience.
So now, what do we do when wedon't have the wait times that
helped to bring the loss laterto not be quite as much of a
(23:33):
loss.
And the other thing is, withboth places I haven't been here
for so long Everyone knew aboutPinnacle Peak but no one knew
about Jell-O's Tables.
So we said let's work onbringing the branding up for
Jell-O's Tables, get that brandawareness up so that we can we
kind of had two engines on thatplane, right and bring people to
(23:55):
us.
And then it's funny because weactually did.
Apparently we did a great jobwith Charlestown, at least
amongst certain folks, where nowthey know all about Charlestown
, don't know anything about therestaurant, which was has been
weird, I'll just say that.
So when, when we saw that thewait times were down and we were
having to look at guest countsdropping, you know, in
(24:18):
comparison year to year, we hadto do something.
So we said what assets do wehave?
We've got this gigantic asset,let's go for it.
So we started using that todrive, to try to, as a marketing
agent, to try to drive business.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
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Now let's get back to the show.
Are you seeing that people arestill willing to wait?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yes, yep, still willing to um if we uh, you know
a good Saturday night andwhatnot two hour waits.
We're stressed out in our mindsabout it because it's just a
really long time to ask somebodyto wait for a table.
But we don't usually get toomuch pushback about it, which is
sort of surprising, becauseasking anyone to wait for two
(25:40):
hours at any restaurant inTucson at any time, that people,
it's crazy around here.
Yeah, people don't makereservations, they just walk in
and expect to be seen.
I don't know if you've noticedthat.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I have.
But that's the beauty of beinga destination spot right and
having the history that you guyshave and you know we can
celebrate you for you know,single handedly saving Trail,
dust Town, it's true.
Wildest town, it's true.
So let's talk a little bitabout the tenure of your
(26:13):
leadership team.
You said Brian's been there onthe grill for 30 years.
How about your management team?
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, so our food and beverage director.
She just moved to that positionin May of this year.
She has been with the companyoff and on for about 20 years
and she was the general managerof Pinnacle Peak for 12 years
and she had been a manager forup to maybe 14, 15 years.
(26:42):
So she came to the company as aserver, actually left the
company for a brief period oftime.
She was interested in going tomanagement.
There wasn't a positionavailable.
She went outside the company,which worked out for us, because
she went to a national companythat had a very strong training
(27:03):
program, got a ton of trainingand then came back to us because
she couldn't quite get the restof her blood and the couldn't
quite get the restaurant out ofher blood and the position
became available.
So after they.
So she's been with us that long.
Her counterpart, her assistantat that restaurant, who's now
the manager, has been with usabout probably eight to ten
(27:25):
years.
She came up through bartendingand then came into it.
That way, the supervisor thereit's a three-person management
team, two salary, one hourly.
It's kind of the same as it.
He's been a server there for 18years and he does managing,
supervising and serving theother restaurant we just kind of
(27:50):
went through.
Our previous general managerhad been with the company for 42
years and she retired inFebruary of this year.
So we had to kind of backfillthat because somebody taking
with them 42 years of kind ofinstitutional knowledge is a
(28:12):
huge, huge loss.
So we backfilled from there.
We just had some folks comeinto play.
The average tenure at thatrestaurant is about seven years,
from disher all the way up tothe manager.
So a lot of the people.
We didn't lose anybody in thattransition in terms of you know
(28:35):
cause that happens.
You have a big managementchange, you're going to usually
have some nutrition.
Just, you know, I don't likethis person or it makes people
pick their head up and think,ooh, is this the right fit for
me.
We didn't actually lose anybodyin transition.
Now the new people new managerthere has been there since
October.
Supervisor he actually isworking, is learning,
(28:58):
supervising and is nowsupervising at one restaurant
but grills at the other one andthe assistant manager has been
was actually came out of thekitchen and he's been there
probably 15 years or so, so kindof brought that along.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
That's incredible.
What?
What is your guys's approach todevelopment of your leaders?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Sure, it's nothing formal, something that's been on
my radar to make a formalprocess for a while, but then
the Ferris wheel breaks and Ihave to go fix it.
That's a literal example.
So, from from a developmentstandpoint, it's basically is
(29:43):
that historically it's been, youknow, kind of for like a better
term school with hard knocks.
There.
We've tried getting a lot ofsupport in terms of you know,
okay, what do you guys need?
How can we help?
Then, as I've, you know, kindof learned more and more, I'll
share what I know with themanytime we have a meeting.
So it's kind of ongoing, be itone-on-one or small group, that
(30:05):
just doing training, pretty muchongoing.
More recently we had our foodbeverage director.
A new program managementtraining program became
available in tucson becausethere's just not a ton of them
to begin with.
So we enrolled her in thatprogram and so she's been in it.
Now it just launched inseptember so she's been to two,
(30:29):
three meetings and and the goalof that, of having her go
through that program, is to getall the sort of business
training that goes far beyondwhat you do it's just running a
restaurant from shift to shiftor even month to month is
getting all that real baselinetraining.
(30:49):
So we're kind of having herpilot it.
If that goes well, which seemsto be fine so far, then we'll
extend that out to the one leveldown, so to speak, and then
we're looking for somethingslightly more formal or regular
to provide to the rest of thetraining, the rest of the team,
(31:12):
and to try to build outsomething more formal To
hopefully have folks that are onthe team that are interested in
management but they haven'ttold anybody that they kind of
identify themselves beyond justbeing a leader on the floor or
what have you.
So I'm hoping to createsomething more formal, but
(31:32):
currently it's just, you know,chatting with them and trying to
work through situations as theyarise.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Yeah, I love it.
The organic approach isincredible.
It's all about connection andcustomizing it to exactly what
they need, which is great, rightand what they want.
Can I ask who the managementtraining program is through?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yeah, it's a group called Three Pillars Performance
.
Okay, there's a peer advisorygroup out there.
It's called Vistage and I gotinvolved with that a few years
ago and that has been mostly myprofessional development.
Stuff is kind of what thatprogram is.
(32:12):
That's why I'm a member of itand the group that we have the
chairpersons with the title ofit and the cult is that they
created a management trainingprogram.
It's like a monthly kind ofthing that they created to go
through that and that's kind oflike a general training program.
It's like a monthly kind ofthing that they created to go
(32:32):
through that and that's kind oflike a general business training
.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Is it hospitality specific or just general
business?
Overall Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
And one of the things that could be helpful about it
is that, like hospitality isweird I'm sure you've run into
that that the challenges that weface.
It's just kind of moreinteresting, I guess you'd say,
than some of the people, butit's always fascinating how the
(33:05):
the flavorings of might bedifferent, but the core issue is
the same across all this isthat you know, maybe the
immediacy when we have toaddress problems or customer
service or whatnot is isdifferent, or that we're opening
a restaurant every night onspeculation.
You know we're going doing allthis work.
People have been working fordays and weeks to open and hope
(33:27):
that people come out to dinnerand there's only so much you can
do if they decide not to dothat night.
So what I kind of like aboutthat program, especially for
somebody that's at a directorylevel, is that they're not just
spending time really immersed inrestaurant world and kind of
having their horizons broadenedWith.
(33:50):
You know if there might be, Ithink, in her group.
I remember hearing that therewas some folks from the
construction industry.
So problems are the same, butthen they can have a completely
different perspective of it ortheir you know new connections
into our local community andlearning how construction works,
not by on purpose, but sort ofalmost by osmosis.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Got it.
How are you investing in yourown leadership development in
your position?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
It's primarily in time and, in this, this
particular group.
One of the things that'shelpful with it is that there's
speakers every month and thetopics tend to get.
They're not really hospitalityspecific, they're just more like
general business.
So I have a tendency to read alot and then or try to anyway,
whenever I find time where Ididn't fall asleep before I had
(34:43):
a chance to read something.
I am reading a very good bookright now.
You might know the author.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Don't do it, shameless plug.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Well, I, you know, I read I read 30 pages last night
cause I hit a section that I wasnot anticipating.
To see that level ofvulnerability, I was like I'm
not putting this down right nowanyway.
So, but I tend to do that kindof thing, and then the group,
that particular group I'm in,has a lot of opportunities.
Um, you know, be it to uh donetworking and connection, but
(35:19):
not networking to try to getmore sales or something.
Um networking to um try tolearn more.
So, um, like this afternoonwe're uh, there's a small group
that we're going to be chattingabout.
Uh, one guy is in the financialworld and the other person is
does insurance and like multi,multi-unit housing construction.
(35:43):
So I'll do nothing hospitalityrelated, but I get the
opportunity to learn how youknow what these other industries
go through and find out whatapplies.
You know what applies and whatdoesn't.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, I mean, how has being a part of a group like
that really?
I mean it's, it's sounds likeit's offering you a lot of
different perspectives that youcan apply to business.
But if you could narrow down,um like in single out one or two
great impacts that that's hadon the business, what, what
would you, what would you callout?
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Yeah, yeah, um, the ones that I would say are that
is it ends up being thebroadening perspective and that,
um, like one of the things thatthey talk about, I guess the
the single biggest thing is that?
Um which?
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I kind of had a sense of.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
But I didn't.
I didn't really as long as Ikind of like we've all
businesses it really is, andit's even beyond that is that
like kind of the human conditionis fairly universal and it's a.
It's been an interestingexperience of you know what.
If you're talking to anattorney, for example, right,
(36:51):
and they're a very successfulattorney and they have a famous
firm, they're doing great right,and you're talking to them and
they'll be sharing some sort ofstress they've got and the
stress, whatever the stressor is, is the same.
And it's not like you shouldn'tcompare yourself to others, but
(37:14):
it was sort of interesting andI'm like I've actually been
through that problem.
Here's what, here's how itlanded for me, here's what
worked, here's what didn't.
So to have it where more sothat those challenges are all
the same, and then to be likeit's really easy to build up
whatever problem you're dealingwith into being the biggest
problem in the world, and thenyou chat with somebody and then
(37:36):
again you shouldn't compare itbecause that's not a good way to
live, but you go, wow, yeah,this person's problem is way
bigger deal right now and it cankind of help to put things in
perspective.
So, from that aspect doingleadership stuff it can be
really challenging to see that.
(38:01):
So oftentimes you have to lookbeyond your own perspective to
see what's actually going on.
And so, from that kind ofconcept, is that's been really
having a group of people thatare the only thing we have in
common really?
Is this group, and that we'rein a similar position of our
respective companies, is reallyhelpful for that?
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yeah, I love that perspective and that aspect
because I've been a part ofsimilar community organizations
and just to know that somebodyelse is going through something
is really, it's just veryimpactful, it's very comforting,
it makes leadership feel lesslonely and it's incredible that.
You know, we're in thisindustry where we're serving
(38:42):
people every day and we'reconstantly in contact and
connection with people, butleadership can be very, very
lonely and groups like that arejust incredible, incredible
resources.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, and it also can get interesting too where, even
within, if it's say, thehospitality industry, right Like
so our company, we have about160 staff members and of that
you know, about 100 to 110 are,you know, part-time, and so in
my position we have a smalladministrative team, but I'm not
(39:16):
necessarily coming into contactwith 160 people every day Well,
at least staff members.
But when, in specific to ourown industry, if I'm in a group
of folks that are otherrestaurant people, they might
only have a single operation orthey might have a really small
(39:39):
business where you know they'vegot six people that run the
whole thing.
So it's not that the challengesare indifferent, but it's
sometimes the feeling ofcamaraderie isn't quite the same
when you're like well, yeahbut you know, the challenge I'm
facing is not.
It's not bigger or smaller,it's just different because it
involves 160 people, whereas theone they're dealing with is
(40:00):
like six.
So the challenge is the same,but the camaraderie feels a
little different when you know,like you know, you've worked on
the line before, so working onthe line is different to working
on the floor.
Yeah, they're not.
What you can depends on who youask which one's harder.
(40:21):
Yeah, you know, I maybe have myown opinions about that.
Yeah, I'd say the line butthat's also because I, you know,
I like cooking, I'm more of aback of house kind of person,
but I had to do front of housefor most of the career.
But the it ends up being isthat the feeling of camaraderie
(40:43):
you get is different.
So it's the same kind of thingwhen you go to all these groups
is, if you're chatting withsomeone that is a single unit
operator, that's got like, youknow, 10 people on the team and
they all hang out together andit's like a might be a literal
family, that feels differentthan if it's like, you know, I'm
not a big chain person, butchatting with someone that runs
a chain restaurant is alsodifferent.
(41:04):
So that's, the camaraderie isstill there, but it just feels
differently.
So that's where some of thesepeer advisory groups, that you
can get the same feelings, notnecessarily being in the same
industry.
Yeah, what's your biggestchallenge right now?
It's kind of the uncertaintyand instability that comes any
(41:27):
time there's, you know, kind ofchange.
That's been kind of where we'vebeen for the last five years or
so.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Like external change, you mean.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, internally it's all kind of the same.
We don't have a lot of changewithin the company in terms of
the brass tacks of what we do.
The biggest challenges are, atleast as a company is, basically
just figuring out how we adaptto this ever-changing landscape
while keeping what we do thesame the the restaurant, the
(42:03):
guests of the restaurant, tendto be wildly, wildly resistant
to any changes from what theyview as being their experience,
which is quite the compliment,but it's also really frustrating
sometimes because you know,perception is reality.
So we got read the riot act foran entire week, so a few years
(42:25):
ago, because the color of thebeans bowl changed.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
So not like people swore up and down, it's changed.
And the you know the serversare talking to them and going I
promise you, it's only the bowl.
It didn't change material, itchanged color.
And they swore up and down.
They didn't believe us and theywere like how dare you change
my experience?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Did you have to change the bowls back?
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Uh-huh, wow, they literally changed the bulls back
and then a few of them justgoes by, and then we at the time
they were like a plastic kindof bull thing and they changed
from red to brown, I think itwas, and that was reasoned
because we were running low onone of them and we couldn't get
them.
They weren't available.
(43:12):
Yeah, eventually we found,found them, brought them back in
and they were all set.
Oh, the beans are back.
Same guy making them, samespice, same spices, same jar,
because when you make as manybeans as they do, you're not
buying spices, you know what Imean.
You're buying like 55 gallonthings of spices.
(43:34):
I mean everything is the same.
The only thing that changes isthe meat.
So that's kind of.
One of the challenges is how dowe adapt to ever changing times
while keeping this core conceptbasically as unchanging as we
can for our guests?
The kind of my own job or myperspective.
(43:55):
It's mainly getting trying toset up systems for myself, so
that I'm not that I have allowedtime for big scale projects,
things that are.
Basically, how do I make it sothat I have built in time to
allow for distractions and timeto not allow for distractions?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, what are one of those systems that you've been
able to implement?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
I mean one of those business the funny business term
they've got for it right nowdeep work, I think that's what
they call it.
So I've tried to do it whereI'll schedule into my day, just
like, okay, for an hour and ahalf I'm going to close my door
to my office and just plug awayat whatever this longer-term
(44:46):
schedule If it's writing aprocess or trying to dream up
what strategy is going to looklike, or okay, what is the goal
for next year I find it'sbecause that doesn't tend to be
my normal everyday kind ofstrength, like the way that I
feel about it, then I'msusceptible to, I'm more
(45:09):
susceptible to distraction.
So I have to like it takesdiscipline for me to sit for an
hour and a half and try to plugaway at like, okay, how are we
going to what?
It takes discipline for me tosit for an hour and a half and
try to plug away at like, okay,how are we going to?
What are we going to do nextyear to meet goals, or what are
the goals?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
What is?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
realistic what is not realistic.
So so far it's helped a littlebit, but because it's not
something that I would taketowards.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Puppies are present.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, and then they left my door open.
So that's cool, but they uh, um, uh, one of the uh is by you
know how to adhering to that,having the discipline to adhere
to that schedule.
So, yeah, all right, it's 83030 in the morning.
Restaurant's still open until 5.
(45:55):
It's just admin people.
I just tell them like hey, I'mgoing to work on a project until
10.
So only bother me if somethingreally can't wait until after 10
.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, I love it.
You're setting some boundaries,that's great.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Theoretically, the hardest part about boundaries is
adhering to them yourself.
Yeah, absolutely Theoreticallythe hardest part about
boundaries is adhering to themyourself.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Well, casey, I can't thank youenough for being here and
sharing all this knowledge withus.
Just super, super valuable info.
We'll put all the links to ElCorral and Pinnacle Peak and
Trail Dust Town in the shownotes, for sure, and Pinnacle
Peak and Trail Dust Town in theshow notes, for sure.
(46:37):
So if anybody if you'relistening get over there Friday
night, monday night, tuesdaynight, you've got a big event.
You want to ride the Ferriswheel?
You want to have your tie cutoff?
They're there for you, for sure.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
We will be there.
We're only closed Christmas dayand Thanksgiving day.
Otherwise, bring a tie if youdare.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I'd love it.
I'd love it.
All wise.
Bring a tie if you dare.
I'd love it.
I'd love it.
All right, everybody that'sgoing to do it for us this week,
Please share this episode withany leaders in the industry that
you think could benefit, andwe'll talk to you next week.
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