Send me a Text Message. I'd love to hear from you.
Ever wonder what happens when you shift from thinking like a chef to thinking like an investor? Kevin Morrison, owner of Fish N Beer and Tacos Tequila Whiskey in Denver, Colorado, shares his remarkable journey and the mindset shift that transformed his restaurant operations.
Kevin takes us through his evolution from restaurant worker to owner, including a cautionary tale about franchising (which he calls "the F-word") and the serendipitous timing of launching his taco truck just as both food trucks and tacos were trending. Through both calculated decisions and what he humbly calls "dumb luck," Kevin built concepts that have withstood Denver's notoriously challenging restaurant landscape.
Speaking of operational challenges, I've found that successful restaurant leaders like Kevin focus on eliminating unnecessary tasks so they can concentrate on growth and profitability. That's why I appreciate partners like Restaurant Technologies, whose automated oil management systems free up valuable staff time. Learn more about their solutions at https://go.rti-inc.com/RestaurantLeadershipPodcast.
The heart of our conversation explores how Kevin trains his staff to think like investors rather than traditional restaurant workers. By removing emotion from business decisions and focusing purely on data, his team has developed creative approaches to controlling prime costs. They meticulously track every dish's preparation time, popularity, and profitability, making tough but necessary menu adjustments when the numbers don't add up.
Denver restaurateurs face unique challenges – from addressing homelessness affecting guest experiences to navigating the country's highest tipped minimum wage and intense market saturation. Kevin shares practical strategies for tackling these issues while maintaining quality and service standards. Most impressive is his team's proactive approach to economic uncertainty, including developing contingency plans like "tariff-free menus" and building strong vendor relationships to anticipate supply chain disruptions.
What truly sets Kevin apart is his ability to evolve his leadership style – recognizing his strengths and weaknesses while empowering his team to innovate. His story demonstrates that restaurant success today requires both creative passion and financial discipline, a balance he's mastered through decades of experience.
Whether you're battling rising costs, preparing for economic uncertainty, or simply looking to sharpen your business acumen, this episode offers invaluable insights from someone who's weathered it all. Listen now and discover how thinking like an investor might be the game-changer your restaurant needs.
Resources:
P.S. Ready to take your restaurant to the next level? Here are 3 ways I can support you:
- One-on-One Coaching - Work directly with me to tackle your biggest leadership challenges and scale your operations with confidence. Learn more at christinmarvin.com
- Multi-Unit Mastery Book - Get the complete Independent Restaurant Framework that's helped countless owners build thriving multi-location brands. Grab your copy at https://www.IRFbook.com
- Group Coaching & Leadership Workshops - Join other passionate restaurant leaders in transformative group sessions designed to elevate your entire team. Details at christinmarvin.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
welcome back everybody.
This week, I am joined by kevinmorrison, who is the owner of
fish and beer and tacos, tequilaand whiskey in denver, colorado
.
Kevin and I take a deep diveinto how he's managing prime
costs and all the little thingsthat he's doing in his business.
And how he's managing primecosts and all the little things
that he's doing in his businessand how he's empowering his
(00:28):
staff to think like an investor,which is just a really awesome
approach to running business andproven to be really, really
successful.
We also take a little bit of adeep dive into how Kevin and his
team are preparing for all theuncertainty in the economy
around tariffs and some of theways that they are getting
(00:48):
really, really creative andputting some backup plans in
place to be really proactive andalso reactive whenever they
need to.
So ton of value in thisconversation.
Kevin's just a total, badass,total stud and there's a lot of
great tips out of thisconversation.
Kevin's just a total, badass,total stud and there's a lot of
great tips out of thisconversation.
Welcome to the RestaurantLeadership Podcast, the show
(01:11):
where restaurant leaders learntools, tactics and habits from
the world's greatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin.
With Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
(01:32):
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
like to hear about leadership,lessons you want to learn and
(01:54):
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
.
Running an independentrestaurant is no joke.
You're doing it all Managingyour team, maintaining quality,
(02:17):
keeping things safe and the backof the house can sometimes feel
like organized chaos.
That's where restauranttechnology steps in.
They've created a system calledtotal oil management that helps
take one big job off your platemanaging cooking oil.
No more lugging jugs of oil ordealing with dangerous spills.
(02:37):
Their system does four thingsfor you Delivers fresh oil
automatically, removes used oilsafely no mess, no stress.
Helps your team stay safe andyour food consistent, and even
turns your used oil into biofuel, which is pretty cool.
Thousands of independentsacross the country are already
(02:59):
using it to cut costs, save timeand make their kitchens run
smoother.
If you're curious about thisand want to learn more about how
it could work in your space,visit gorti-inccom slash
restaurant leadership podcast.
Again, that's gorti-inccomslash restaurant leadership
(03:25):
podcast.
Kevin, thank you so much forbeing here, Super excited to
give the listeners today alittle bit of insight into your
world and your amazing conceptsthat I've been a huge fan of.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
For many, many years.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
But also excited to share some of the challenges
that you're facing in the Denvermarket.
That we all know is verychallenging, incredibly
expensive and some incrediblelearnings.
Give us a little bit of insightabout how long you've been in
the business, A little bit ofbackstory here.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, my God, the whole , my whole, my, give us the
abbreviated version, and thenwe'll jump in how long you've
been in the business.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
A little bit of backstory here.
Oh my God, the whole my wholemy.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Give us the abbreviated version and then
we'll jump in, go back to the80s yeah Well, I'll give you my
Colorado.
So I moved out here fromChicago 94, spent a year in
Aspen, loved it.
I'm like I'm going to go buy aplace and settle down, and then
I saw the real estate prices.
I, and then I saw the realestate prices, I'm like, yeah,
that's not going to happen.
(04:27):
So I ended up in Boulder for ayear and then been in Denver
ever since Started.
Where was I?
I was sous chef at a BaroloGrill, which is still there,
high-end Italian.
Got to do the Italy trip withthose guys one year, which was
amazing.
And then from there I went onto open a sandwich shop called
Spicy Pickle sub shop.
There I went on to open asandwich shop called Spicy
(04:49):
Pickle Sub Shop A buddy of mine.
We ran it for five years fiveyears and we were spoiled with
the hours we were working and wehad three locations and making
good money and got a wild ideato franchise.
I usually don't use the F word.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
It is the F word.
It is the F word man.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Oh my God, was it an eye-opening experience.
And I talked to my brotherabout it and he was in finance.
He was a CFO of a large companyhere in Colorado and he's like
do you really want to do that?
And I'm like they're talkingabout stock, like three, four
bucks a share.
I'm going to own 12 millionshares.
Life's going to be good.
I ended up selling like 10million shares for like a half a
(05:34):
penny when I got fired from acompany that I started.
Oh, no.
Yeah, so that was quite theexperience.
I don't regret it.
It was fun because, like Imentioned, I have a high school
diploma.
These diplomas are fake.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Don't give it away, kevin.
Don't give it away, just fakeit.
How long did it take you to gopublic?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think the process from start to finish was maybe a
little bit over a year, withall the paperwork and everything
from start to finish was maybea little bit over a year, with
all the paperwork and everything.
We had brought on a guy.
It was my partner and I runningit and we were your typical
restaurant guys.
I mean, he was in his 20s, Iwas in my 30s, life was good,
and then had this opportunity tofranchise.
(06:20):
So we brought on a CEO, webrought on a CFO, we raised
funds, raised a bunch load ofmoney yeah you can cuss, it's OK
.
OK, yeah, raised.
It's just a shitload of moneyand it was just unreal how the
burn like had a register inevery state we were in and it
was a great learning experience.
(06:40):
I wouldn't bootstrap it.
You know it's back in the daywhen we opened you could
bootstrap a restaurant and getby.
It's very hard to do now, andthen franchising is a whole
nother world.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
We should do another episode about that alone.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, that's great I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
If you are feeling the pressure of rising costs and
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(07:18):
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(07:42):
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(08:03):
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Don't miss it, and I hope tosee you there.
Ok, so what happened afterSpicy Pickle?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What did happen?
Oh, after.
So I pitched the idea.
I'm like, hey, I went to ourCEO.
I'm like, hey, man, we shouldget a food truck and we won't do
sandwiches, we'll come up withanother concept.
And he's like a coach roach.
I'm like no man, they're,they're getting real popular now
.
So, um, we had kind of buttedheads and I got somehow.
I got terminated on Christmas,like December 23rd.
(08:41):
I got I was in Canada with myin-laws and I get.
He asked me to fly back.
So I flew back in December 23rd, got term in Canada with my
in-laws and he asked me to flyback.
So I flew back on December 23rd, got terminated.
I'm like, thanks, man.
So then I opened the taco truck,the first one.
It was called Pinché Tacos,just slang.
You know for the effort, itjust it was.
I like to call it dumb luck,because it was perfect timing
(09:03):
for food trucks in Denver andtacos around the country.
So we hit at the right time.
They were just very simpleauthentic ingredients, authentic
cooking styles, but with agringo twist, and it just took
off.
Honestly, it was nothing I hadplanned.
There was a very small businessplan.
There was a very small businessplan, but I rented the first
(09:27):
location off Colfax in New Yorkbecause I could afford the rent
if it went under.
And that's how we did the firstspicy pickle we rented the
cheapest place we could findbecause if it went under we both
could afford the rent.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Did you know you wanted to go from fruit truck to
?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
brick and mortar?
That's a good question.
I don't think I ever thoughtabout it, it just happened.
I think I'm a really lucky guybecause a lot of things just
happen and I noticed things thatjust happen I do better at than
when I plan things out.
We planned the Phoenix locationfor years and it didn't work.
(10:06):
Yeah, and the money we put intothat place, but when we just
opened it it just kind of like Iwent more with my gut.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So how did you find the Highlands location?
Did you plan for that one?
The second PJ, the second one.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So the Highlands location?
No, the landlord called me upand he's like hey, man, I just
read an article about you.
I think it was in the Westwardor something and we were at my
niece's high school graduationdinner at Sullivan Steakhouse
downtown, which used to be there, my favorite steakhouse.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
And he's like I got a spot for you.
He's like Quiznos just backedout and I'm like I don't know if
I want to go in a spot whereQuiznos was going in.
Not that there's anything wrongwith Quiznos, but they tend to
be more of the corporate area.
So I went and looked at it andI just fell in love with it and
I had the A team at the originallocation.
I mean, every shift was the Ateam and I'm like I'm smart
(11:01):
enough to realize I'm like Ibetter utilize these folks or
they're going to leave so openthe second one and it you know
it was.
It was a great learningexperience because you can't
it's so hard to duplicate thingsand I'm a big fan of Pink's
Tacos or Pink's Hot Dogs in LAand they've had so many
(11:22):
opportunities to expand and theyjust they didn't want to
because they're like you can'tduplicate this and it's true.
Um, so I enjoyed it.
Looking back, I'm not sure Iwould have done it again.
Why not?
I love mom and pop places.
Uh, to me they lose kind of themystique when you start to
become a small chain.
I mean we had four of them atone time and to me they just
(11:46):
lose something, but that's justme.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, how did fish and beer come to be?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Fish and beer.
Uh, I was getting bored and Ineeded a new project and I'm
like I want to do a seafoodjoint, like I grew up.
I grew up in the Midwest, so itwas fish fries every Friday,
especially during Lent, like nomeat fish fries.
We my parents, when theyretired they would go down the
Gulf Coast of Florida everywinter and go to those seafood
(12:14):
shacks down there and everythingwas fried and I just loved it
and that's how that came about.
And our first menu, from wherewe are with the first menu to
where we are today, I mean it's180 degrees, it's totally
different.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, what have been the main changes.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We have more than four entrees on the menu.
Now the food is way moreapproachable.
I had a great chef partner atthe time and her food was a
little bit more high end than mycomfort zone, but I just let
her go with it.
Yeah, and it just it really Idon't think fit the neighborhood
.
Um, she left and then I jumpedback in the kitchen and just
(12:56):
started making some changes anddoing what felt right to me and,
uh, it's evolved into where weare today.
I got an amazing chef there now.
Um, and they just they do anawesome job so you've got the
location in rhino right locationrhino.
And then the other tacos,tequila, whiskey, 30 second
(13:17):
nerving in denver and then anairport deal how was what made
you decide to go into theairport?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Did you get a call?
You got another call.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
It was like my fifth call and honestly, I said no
because we had just got rejectedthe month before and I was
literally heartbroken over that.
I was like God, it's like itwasn't meant to be.
And the local company Skyport,who are my partners now their
COO, called me and she's like wewant to pitch you and I said I
(13:48):
just can't do it.
And I said I just lost this bid.
I really wanted this bid.
I loved it, loved the peoplethat we would have been partners
with, loved the concourse.
She goes can I call you in twoweeks?
I said, yeah, sure.
So in two weeks she called me.
I.
She goes can I call you in twoweeks?
I said, yeah, sure, so in twoweeks she called me.
I'm like, all right, let's doit.
So it was during COVID.
We had to do the pitch.
(14:08):
Um, we had a video or film it,videotape, whatever the kids do
now we had to do that.
So it was us Elway's and Pete'sCoffee, okay, and um, god, from
start to finish, probablythree-year process it's a long
process, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I went through it back in 07.
We lost.
Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, it's a long process it was a long process,
um, and then she called me andshe's like congratulations.
And I'm like on what.
She's like we got chosen.
I'm like for what?
And then it dawned on me.
I'm like are you kidding me'regoing to have a restaurant at
the airport?
Yeah, and it was just, it wasso cool.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, how's it been performing?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's good we started out.
It was doing okay, you know,but super happy with the team
out there.
The food is amazing, they do agreat job.
And then probably about we'vebeen open.
Oh my God, what's the dateWe've been open.
Oh my God, what's the date.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's almost a year.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, I think the 24th, nice Congrats.
I'm horrible with dates, butit's almost a year.
In the last five months, mansales have been very good,
everybody's happy, incredible.
And it's great because it's alicensed deal.
You know they call me once in awhile.
I mean, they are such a skyport.
(15:27):
I can't speak highly enoughabout those guys.
They're like hey, man, we wantto change the kosher salt, we
can't get this from our vendor,but we want to get your approval
.
I'm like yeah, sure, thanks bythe way.
Amazing yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I mean, they really respect the brand and what's
going on and what we do.
Are you?
Are you done openingrestaurants For now?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, I want to say something.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
If anybody's listening.
Give Kevin a call, Cause hemight be.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
No, I mean I, I would would.
I love restaurant business.
I my I love everything thatleads up to opening day and then
I like to pop in for openingday and shake some hands and and
have a couple drinks and thenleave and then, if I'm never
seen again, I'm cool with that.
The stress of day-to-day it,it's, I just don't it's, I don't
get that rush anymore what isit about the opening process
(16:33):
that draws you in so much?
oh, I love it.
I love the creative aspect ofit.
I love like sitting down and Iwish, I wish, hopefully,
someone's listening and they'relike hey, hey man, and I don't,
I don't need a lot of money.
It's like like I like hey,we'll give you whatever and you
design this concept and you getit open.
I would love that.
(16:54):
I love the creative process.
I love like all right, whatever.
It is like, hey man, you wantto do a Indian?
You know Indian, Indian,Mexican taqueria?
Like I love doing the research,I love doing the R and D, I
love doing the design, the flowof the restaurant, the
construction process, pickingout plateware, everything, the
(17:19):
equipment.
I love all that.
And then it's like afteropening day, it's like all right
, we got to do openingprocedures.
Hey, why didn't this?
Why didn't this cooler getchecked?
Why didn't this get wrapped?
Why didn't this get condensed?
That stuff drives me crazy.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I love it.
But I still love the industryand that's why I'm trying to
move into coaching.
So it's like, all right, I have40 years experience.
When I write everything down onpaper, I'm like, oh, I sound
like I should know what I'mdoing.
It looks good in black andwhite.
So that's what I'm doing now.
(17:56):
I still have the tworestaurants, I have an amazing
director of operations and justspending more time in Canada
with the kids.
But will I ever open arestaurant?
I would like to, becausethere's a couple of concepts I
have to get out of my system.
Okay, but I don't want to be thefinancial guy.
I'd rather be like, only like1%, and I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Okay, love it.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Love the industry.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Let's talk about Denver and the challenges and
what's going on in the market.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
What has been?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
the biggest challenge for you.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Denver's tough.
Homeless is tough.
Minimum wage is tough.
Saturation the market'ssaturated.
Yeah, a lot of younger peopleare moving out of Denver because
they can't afford to buy.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, that's why we left.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, it's a tough market.
The city's going through some Idon't want to call it growing
pains because we've been thissize for a while.
Yeah, the new administration'shaving some struggles and I
think they're going to workthrough it.
It is frustrating to be on thisend because it's really hurting
(19:08):
retail.
It's hurting small businessowners not just restaurants but
any kind of small businessowners.
But I think hopefully theadministration will come around
and be like OK, we got todefinitely make some changes
administration will come aroundand be like okay, we got to
definitely make some changes.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Hey there, podcast friends, I hope you're enjoying
these impactful conversationsand leadership insights I'm
bringing you each week.
Before we dive back intotoday's episode, I want to take
a moment and reach out and ask asmall favor.
That would go a long way insupporting the show.
If you've been loving thecontent I'm providing, please
take a moment to leave a ratingand review.
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, Not only does it make
my day, but it also plays apivotal role in helping the show
(19:51):
grow.
Your reviews boost my visibility, attract new listeners and
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So if you want to be part of myshow's growth journey, hit that
review button and let me knowwhat you think.
Thanks a million for beingawesome listeners.
So let's talk about thesepoints individually.
(20:14):
The homeless aspect, orunhoused I'm not sure what the
verbiage is these daysSaturation you know, I was part
of the scene in 07 wheneverything just started to
explode and every localrestaurateur started popping up
with multiple concepts and theneighborhoods around the city
started exploding, and it justhasn't stopped.
Every time I come back, everyfew months, I just I have a new
(20:34):
laundry list of places.
It's insane.
Um, but let's, let's talk aboutthese individually.
Minimum wage um, saturation ofconcepts and competition, and
then homeless how do you handlethe homeless situation?
How does that impact yourbusiness?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You really can't handle them.
I've called the police numeroustimes.
The police are in a tough spot.
They get a bad rap.
In my opinion, they're in atough spot.
The person that should begetting calls is the DA, because
the DA doesn't want toprosecute and as long as they're
(21:11):
not doing anything illegal,they they can't, the police
can't do anything.
I mean, we've seen them smoking, crack right right on our patio
with guests three tables awayand it's like, unless the police
see it, um, they can't do any.
They can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Are you and I know there's this as a restaurateur
this desire to protect theexperience and the environment.
But from a guest perspective,are guests empathetic to, to
homeless people?
Are they complaining and dothey look at you and the team
and say what are?
Why aren't you doing somethingabout this?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You get both.
Most of the homeless people youknow, like when we were at
Colfax in New York.
You know, people know Colfax.
If you don't know Colfax, it'sa very funky strip.
It's been funky forever.
A lot of homeless.
We try to.
First of all, we try to treatthem with empathy.
(22:08):
You know I feel bad.
Whatever you know, I've wentout a few times, had
conversations.
The majority of the homelessthat I've come in contact with
and approach are kind, they'repolite.
They have some issues, theyhave some drug problems, they
have some mental problems.
They don't have the resources.
So that sucks right there.
(22:29):
That sucks in my heart, becauseI've been through several
mental breakdowns and depressionand anxiety where I couldn't
function.
So I'm very empathetic.
However, when it starts toaffect my business and my
livelihood and people I workwith and our money, it's a tough
spot.
So most guests are empatheticbut they sometimes they stay
(22:58):
away.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
We dealt with that, a lot being in Five Points, five
Points is right on that cornerof Park Ave and Larimer and we
would have you know we had apatio and we would have the same
people come up and eat offguest plates, take their
sandwich right off their plate,take the cash, tips or cash
right off the table, and we,just we had to train the staff
(23:21):
to just be uber aware.
And we same thing, we caredabout the community.
We were trying to do better,trying to make an impact, and we
would.
You know, everybody just had tobe on watch and have
conversations of like I'm sorry,you know you can't be here
today.
You got to move along, you knowit was challenging, for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It changes your training program.
For sure you have to add thatfactor in it.
It changes your trainingprogram.
For sure you have to add thatfactor in it.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It does, so how are you combating?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
saturation.
What are you doing about that?
Not opening more joints?
Okay, you know, I just tell thecrew, when I had Spicy Pickle,
we at the time the first, Idon't know how many years five,
six years we used only Boar'sHead and I'll never forget.
(24:18):
But the local distributor camein and I was all stressed out
because there was a new sandwichshop opening like across town.
And he's like, just focus ondoing what you do and let
everything else play out.
And man, that just stuck withme.
So I told my management team andI talked to the crew.
It's like, listen, guys, justdo what you do best.
We can't.
We have no say in who's goingto open across street.
I mean we've had Taquerias openincredibly close to us and I
(24:42):
was like it's kind of a bad move, you know, like it's just
there's gotta be some ethics andmorals in there.
But it is what it is, you know,and I mean we just do what we
do and a lot of it.
I just look as like, hey, man,we can only do so much.
We can only give great if wegive great service.
We can only give so much greatservice.
We make great tacos.
(25:03):
We can only make so great tacos.
We have to give the guests thereason to come back and
hopefully they'll bring someone.
If we do everything we can,we'll be okay.
Yeah, that's all you can do.
I mean there's nothing you can.
How do you deal with saturation?
I mean, you just have to stepup your game and make sure
you're dialing in every shift.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, keep your market share and keep it growing
.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, let's talk about minimum wage, do we?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
have to.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I know it's it's such a tired conversation, but what
are you doing to combat minimumwage?
I mean, how is that impactingyour P&L?
I don't see that Minimum wage.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
We've always paid well above it with the kitchen
guys Always Like.
I had a conversation a coupleof weeks ago.
I was the first pinche tacosback in the day.
I remember I was working likedoubles every day and I needed
someone to close.
So I was stressing out overpaying our shift supervisor 14
(26:06):
bucks an hour.
And she had the keys, she hadthe combination to the safe, she
handled all the cash, she didtip outs, she did all the
paperwork and I'm like man, Idon't know if we can afford it
and you got to sleep at nightand I got to get off a little
bit earlier and I just look, I'mlike 14 bucks an hour um the.
(26:28):
The minimum wage that reallyhurts is are the front of the
house, the tip minimum wage.
You know.
We're at 18, god, what is it?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
1882, I think and going up a dollar right what's
that?
Is it going to go up a dollarevery year?
I think next year it's going tostay the same.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I thought I looked at that.
But their tip minimum wage is302 less.
So you know, when they'remaking 1569, 1579, and they used
to be making $7, that's wherethe crunch, that's where the
pain comes in.
So and we do, we use the tipmodel for a TTW.
(27:05):
At fish and beer.
Everybody makes a minimum ofregular minimum wage because how
we do our tips and our kitchenguys, we make more than that.
But it has definitely hit the Pand L.
I think what you're going tosee is a lot of places are going
to entertain, going to fastcasual.
We actually we did a um, webuilt out a program or I forget
(27:31):
what you call it, but we built amodel.
We modeled what our taqueriawould look like.
Look like if it was just fastcasual, and we decided at that
time not to do it.
Um, I'm not saying it's goingto be, it's off the table
forever, but at that time wejust didn't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
What was the deciding factor there?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Was it experience, or did the numbers not make sense,
or the savings weren't largeenough to excite me and I'm a
big fan of service and I knowjust from when we opened the hot
second rolling pin pizza wasopen.
We had a fast, casual modelthere and we still nailed the
(28:09):
service.
But we've been in business Idon't know 14 years now is the
taqueria there?
It's.
I'm a little nervous, to behonest, about taking that away,
cause I think we'll lose someguests and it's one of those
things like how much do you losein sales?
Like how much do you lose insales versus how much do you
gain in less labor.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, especially I feel like when you're in a
neighborhood like you're, aneighborhood joint, like you are
, there's such a communitypresence and people gather and
drink and eat yeah.
And just gather there.
So let's talk about costs.
I mean, how, what do you do?
What are you controllingdifferently in your P&L in order
(28:49):
to to offset labor?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
We.
I made everybody get tattoosthat say prime cost on their arm
.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
You did not on their arm.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
You did not, okay, no , but I just thought about that.
I'm like, you know, a lot ofour staff has have tats and I'm
like, all right, I'll pay for it.
It is, I wear a few differenthats.
You know, I'm a small businessguy, I wear a few different hats
.
Yeah, but when I I look ateverything now and that is part
of my philosophy when I'mcoaching is like look at
everything as an investor.
(29:27):
Take out the emotions, take out, oh, I love this person.
Take out, oh, but guests lovethis.
Oh, but the chef loves thisdish.
Take all that out and look atit as numbers.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Kevin.
How do you do that?
It's so in my experience beingin the independent space.
It's so difficult.
It's so much easier said thandone.
How do you make that shift tomore data-driven decisions and
take that emotion out?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
of it recently in my whole philosophy is I just don't
give a.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
A light bulb went off .
To be honest with you, it'slike holy shit, like and now
that I'm, you know I'm still inthe industry and heavily deep in
the industry, but now that Iput on this coaching hat, it's
like, once opening day comes,the only thing that matters are
profits Like I love your farm totable, man, I love your culture
(30:29):
, I love this, but you can't doany of that unless you make
money.
Can't do any of that unless youmake money.
And if you're willing to godown with the ship over your
ethos or whatever you want tocall it, it's like man, that's.
That is not a good businessdecision.
So it sounds very cold and verybusiness-like, but we are in a
(30:55):
business and my job is to makemoney.
You know I had investors Istill have investors that
they're early on.
They got paid off, but I have aresponsibility to them to pay
them back.
You know they got paid back.
They're they're happy, they'refine.
But now to go out and raisehowever much it costs to open a
restaurant and the build-outcost, raise however much it
(31:19):
costs to open a restaurant andthe build-out cost.
Like the investors don't careabout your farm to table and all
this stuff unless they'remaking money.
Yeah, or at least not losingmoney yeah so I just yeah
flip the switch and it's likehey guys, I'm sorry.
When we started small, it waslike all right, we looked at the
schedule everybody's coming in15 minutes later and that moved
(31:42):
the needle a little bit.
Yeah.
And then, once you get buy-infrom the staff, then they start
getting creative with ideas andyou know, hey, we can use these
leftovers.
Or why are we?
Why are we ordering so much?
And you know we have a lot ofsystems.
I'm very pleased with thesystems we have in place and I'm
(32:03):
always looking for new systems.
But we really try to pinchpennies and squeeze all that
lemon out of that juice or allthe juice out of the lemon, and
then it's like, all right, nowwhat can we do with the lemon
waste?
How can we use that to makemoney?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
So it's just looking at.
I look at things now as aninvestor, yeah, and it's helped
dramatically before I looked atit as a chef owner.
For years I looked at it as achef and then you could back in
the day and then it went to chefowner and it's like all right,
and then now it's strictlyinvestor.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
How are you passing that on to your staff, that
mindset?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Through my director of operations.
He's the people person.
He and I talk a lot and he's afellow Midwest he.
I love his work ethic and hegets it.
He's a smart dude, he.
He went to school out there, hewent to, he went to ASU.
No U of A.
He went to U of A, okay, nice,yeah, business guy and he gets
(33:12):
it.
And our staff is amazing, likeI'm sure everybody says that.
But man, they're just, they'rewilling to look at things
differently, they're open,they're, they don't have egos,
they're not cocky when they,when the wheels fall off, they
admit it and they learn from itand it's, it's fun yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Unlock the skills to transform your leadership with
the Hospitality Leaders RoadmapMove from ordinary to
extraordinary, packed withpractical strategies to lead
with confidence and createlasting impact in your
restaurant.
Visit kristinmarvincom slashaudio to download your free
(33:52):
audio book today.
So what's made the biggestimpact in terms of prime cost?
Is it all these little bittythings that you've been doing
and the staff's been doing?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
We always did pretty well with our food.
I was always pleased with ourfood cost and our liquor cost.
We tightened up some of ourordering procedures for food.
We tightened up the waste.
We tightened up prep.
I mean, we broke it down.
Staff kitchen staff wasn'thappy about this, but they came
(34:27):
around.
We literally timed every dishthat it took the prep and then
we took that and we looked atour product mix and say, okay,
this dish is it takes ourlongest to prep.
Um, and it's not a big mover.
So we considered it a dog,which I don't know why they call
it dogs.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I love dogs.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
You know, dogs are my favorite animal, so all right,
it's a dog.
We either have to tweak it orget it off the menu.
We started looking at dollarprofit on every single dish and
some dishes, you know, I'll behonest, we had to raise the
price on not much, but we didn'thave a price change in what was
it over two years at eitherrestaurant.
(35:09):
Wow, we should have been doingprice increases more often.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, how often would you do them?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Oh my gosh, I don't.
Some people say every quarter.
I've heard people say everymonth probably.
I'd probably do once a yearlike moving forward.
We'll probably adjust thingsonce a year.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Did you do all of that menu costing by hand?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
No, we use R365, which is a beast.
A lot of people that I'mspeaking with lately they use
Margin Edge and I just heardgreat things about it.
We looked at it and my directorof ops, brian, said if you do
it, I'm leaving because you'd bethe one doing everything.
(35:57):
I just signed the contract andbe the one doing everything.
I just signed the contract andsend the check.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
He does it all.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And he's like it is so much input up front.
So but once you get that in,man it's.
It's a sweet system.
R365 is massive.
There is so much there.
Brian literally spends one daya week learning more, and we've
had it for eight, nine, tenyears.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Wow, are you using everything that it offers?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
No, my God, no, not even no.
We're using a hell of a lotmore now than we were two years
ago, though I mean we, brian andI think the same so we can only
take in so much data, you know.
So we pick and choose, but itis a beast.
It's a great system for justhaving two restaurants.
(36:46):
Honestly, I don't think the tworestaurateur needs it.
Yeah, but at this time we weregrowing, we had five restaurants
we were looking to do.
I wanted to double in size inthe next few years, and so it
was a great system.
But from what I hear, marginedge is really easy to work with
(37:08):
and you know you got someupfront admin time to enter
everything.
But once it's done it's areally good system.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Well, we were talking about that last week, right,
that's.
That is the hurdle when, whenrestaurants switch is who's
going to do all this data entry?
and yeah, it's correct and andyeah, the demo I just did with
margin edge looks looks killer I.
I love their recipe.
Costing ask.
I don't know if r365 has thisbecause I'm not super familiar
with it, but I love that you cancost the menu out per item and
(37:37):
look and go okay, this menu iscosting us, it's at 22% and then
every time you enter an invoicein, it will automatically
update that cost.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
That's what's cool, is you get real time Like I'm
old school.
So I still, to this day, I doeverything by hand.
And then our our chef at fishand beer wine.
He, he's a computer guy, so hehas his own Excel sheet and then
he's learning our 365.
So he likes the computerversion.
(38:05):
And even when I do it by handwe're off just by a couple
pennies.
So we teach two ways, we teachold school, we teach my way, and
we even say you'll learnKevin's way first, and then
(38:25):
you'll learn learn brian's wayand brian is.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know, he's the it guy, he's our marketing guy,
he's everything.
Yeah, how much time is that areyou and the team dedicating to
that?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
to to costing to the continuous learning now is
everything on the menu food andbeverage, everything is 100%
costed out and it's it lives inour 365.
So obviously, when we have anew dish on the menu, our chef
or kitchen manager whateverplace it's at they're
responsible for doing that.
(38:51):
But then we're all.
We're always revisiting.
You know, we have our kitchenmanager.
She wants to move up, so she'sstarting.
(39:16):
She monitors the invoices, opsand she'll do the new costing
out by hand so she can see ohman, this went up a dollar and
this is how it's going to affectour menu.
So we're constantly teachingthat.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
OK, what other big challenges are you facing right
now?
What other big challenges areyou facing?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
right now.
You know we're good with labor,we're fully staffed.
It takes, we're interviewingfor a new management position
now.
And it's still amazing that theno-shows you get.
Yeah, so that's a challenge.
Yeah, still amazing that the noshows you get yeah, so that's a
(39:59):
challenge.
Yeah, um, but the biggestchallenge is the uncertainty of
the economy.
How are the tariffs going tohit us?
What, you know, do we do?
We buy in bulk.
You know we reach out to ourour main liquor distributor here
is rndc.
We're big with them and they'resitting on a lot.
They they brought in a lot ofproduct, but it's like, okay, if
(40:20):
we could hit with these tariffs, what is that going to look
like?
And it was like when COVIDfirst hit and we were all in.
You know, we had a huge layoffon like day three of COVID and
then myself, our admin person,our director of ops, our HR
person we had an accountant atthat time.
Every day at one o'clock we goton a call.
(40:42):
What's the update?
What's the update?
And it was the same when thetariffs were being threatened.
What are we going to do?
What are we going to do andwe're doing all these models
about?
Okay, if this, this and we'relooking at, okay, can we come
out with a tariff-free menu Like, what items can we get that are
being by tariff?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And it's like well, avocados no, tequila, no.
Pesto, no, no, yeah, whiskey,all right, we're tacos, tequila,
whiskey, push the whiskey manyeah.
Yeah, whiskey man, yeah, yeah,hopefully they won't know that
they're four dollar tacos, noweight bucks, yeah.
But and then we just like youknow what, we're just going to
(41:23):
ride it out, we're?
We can't sit here andconstantly do different models.
Yeah we'll, we'll react veryfast.
That's one advantage we have ofbeing small is we can react.
We print menus in-house forfish and beer so we can
literally change the menu beforeevery shift if we have to.
So that's, the uncertainty ofthe economy is nerve wracking.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like you've got a good
game plan, though You've gotbackup plans in place.
You're getting everybodythinking strategically.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, and you know our chefs, our managers, our bar
managers, our GMs they'rereally good, they have a great
relationship with our vendorsand it's like, listen, we know
you guys don't control it, butwhen you get word let us know.
And if we have to takesomething off the menu.
I mean, a couple of years agobeef prices were so high and at
that time our number one tacowas a Sada and and we took it
(42:17):
off the menu for the summer justbecause it's like guests
complain, but it's like you wantto pay $8 for a taco.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Like you don't.
You say you do, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And then, if you do, then you'll go on one of these
Instagrams or whatever and ripus because we're charging $8 for
a taco, yeah, or whatever, andrip us because we're charging
eight bucks for a taco.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, what are you going to do if guest spend?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
declines or guest traffic declines.
You know we'll adapt.
We're seeing the per personaverage, the spend that's down
from last year.
Luckily at Fish and Beer ourfoot traffic is up, which is
good.
Our numbers are up there.
Ttw it's about even Ifeverything declines, we just
(43:08):
have to go with it.
We have to change our model, sothat might be.
You know we're shrinking ourmenu at TTW a little bit.
It's a big menu so we did amenu engineering and looked at
everything so that'll be shrunkdown.
We'll probably.
If we have to cut staff, we'llcut staff and then that's when
(43:29):
that model of fast casual forTTW might come in, if we're
really forced to do it mightcome in if we're really forced
to do it.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Kevin, how do you preserve your energy and passion
for being, as it just soundslike, you're constantly evolving
and your team is too?
How do you protect that energy?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Well, I have ADHD, so that helps.
Um, my lavazza coffee helps.
Okay, and honestly, I just loveit.
I love business, and Ispecifically the restaurant
business.
I love it.
I just I've always loved it.
I graduated high school 83.
I wanted to go to chef school.
(44:11):
My parents like chef school.
No, I'll never forget if youhave a.
This is a short story, Ipromise.
In 1983 I'm a senior in highschool.
I want to go to chef school.
My brother and sister went toIndiana University.
I was expected to go there.
I wanted to be a chef.
My dad, somehow he knew thischef at this restaurant and he's
(44:33):
like, all right, I'm going togo talk to him.
So I go talk to him.
I came home I'm like, yep, I'mgoing to chef school.
He's like didn't you, didn't hetell you how many hours he
worked?
I'm like, yeah, he works 60hours a week.
I'm like, dad, he's making 25000 a year and he goes, but he's
working 60 hours a week.
I go you did you?
Don't get it.
(44:53):
He making 25 grand.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Dad's plan backfired.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
And I loved it.
I just you know I tried to getout a few times.
I'll be honest.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I was at the point.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
It's like F this, I'm going to go do something else,
and then it's like I got to goback.
I love it too much and you knowthere's different.
I used to love being on theline in the rush and blah, blah,
blah.
Um, I can't keep up with thecrew anymore yeah I just can't
and I get in their way and so Ikind of back off and there's
(45:28):
some time, days, I'll go in andI'll prep or play around with a
new dish and man the kitchen.
It's like I get home that nightmy knees hurt, my feet hurt, my
toenails hurt, my fingernailshurt.
So I'm like, all right, I'll,I'll do more of an office job.
I like the creative aspect ofit and that's what keeps me
going.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, well, good for you for recognizing that you,
you're getting in the team's way.
I think there's a lot of,there's a lot of owners that
don't think that way.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Well it's funny because the crew, the kitchen
crew at Fish and Beer, they callme Tornado.
And I'm like hey, that's a nicecompliment Cause I go real fast
and stuff.
And they're like no, becauseyou're a disaster.
I went to my station one nightand it's the messiest station
because you know you're dipping,you're dipping the fish in in
the flour and then the batter,and my station was trashed and
(46:20):
they're just laughing at me andat the end of the night they're
like you're okay, jefe?
And I'm like thank you.
And then someone said tornado.
I'm like why tornado?
And he told me I'm like oh,dude, that's not nice.
But yeah, I realize what I'mgood at and I realize what I'm
not good at anymore, and whatI'm good at is very little.
(46:42):
So I just try to focus on thatand have a big impact.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
I love it.
I love it.
It's do as I say, not as I do,right.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Pretty much.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, kevin, thank you so much.
This has just been awesome.
It's so great.
I'm so glad that we've beenable to connect and be a part of
this next step of your journeytogether in the coaching world,
and just love hearing more aboutyour insights and your passages
comes through every time we'reon a phone call or texting or
whatever I feel it.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
So I'll be cussing in a few hours, I'm sure, and me
like what the F am I doing here?
But at the end of the night Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, yeah, and when you're soconnected to your purpose and
your passion, it makes thosethose tough days seem not as
tough, right?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah, and it's really cool to see like this.
I call it the next generationof 30 year olds.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
You know, it's cool to see them like put their spin
on things.
Yeah, and take what I say.
And it's like, all right, can Ido this, try to try this?
And it's like, hey, man, aswell, as long as we come up with
the end results, same, howeveryou get there, is that that's on
you?
Yeah, so it's cool, I like it.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Good for you.
Good for you for empoweringyour team that's, that's
absolutely incredible and andbeing able to to take a step
back the way that you have andjust let your team shine and
lead um, especially havingmultiple concepts.
I know that's that's easiersaid than done.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
It took a while, yeah .
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, thank you again for yourtime.
Thanks for all the value and uh, I know we're going to chat
tomorrow about uh on ourcoaching about some fears around
recession and some things to do.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
So, looking forward to that conversation, looking
forward to it Awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
All right, my friend, I'll talk to you very soon.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
All right, thank you, dear.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Bye-bye.
welcome back everybody.
This week, I am joined by kevinmorrison, who is the owner of
fish and beer and tacos, tequilaand whiskey in denver, colorado
.
Kevin and I take a deep diveinto how he's managing prime
costs and all the little thingsthat he's doing in his business.
And how he's managing primecosts and all the little things
that he's doing in his businessand how he's empowering his
(00:28):
staff to think like an investor,which is just a really awesome
approach to running business andproven to be really, really
successful.
We also take a little bit of adeep dive into how Kevin and his
team are preparing for all theuncertainty in the economy
around tariffs and some of theways that they are getting
(00:48):
really, really creative andputting some backup plans in
place to be really proactive andalso reactive whenever they
need to.
So ton of value in thisconversation.
Kevin's just a total, badass,total stud and there's a lot of
great tips out of thisconversation.
Kevin's just a total, badass,total stud and there's a lot of
great tips out of thisconversation.
Welcome to the RestaurantLeadership Podcast, the show
(01:11):
where restaurant leaders learntools, tactics and habits from
the world's greatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin.
With Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
(01:32):
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
like to hear about leadership,lessons you want to learn and
(01:54):
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
.
Running an independentrestaurant is no joke.
You're doing it all Managingyour team, maintaining quality,
(02:17):
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using it to cut costs, save timeand make their kitchens run
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If you're curious about thisand want to learn more about how
it could work in your space,visit gorti-inccom slash
restaurant leadership podcast.
Again, that's gorti-inccomslash restaurant leadership
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podcast.
Kevin, thank you so much forbeing here, Super excited to
give the listeners today alittle bit of insight into your
world and your amazing conceptsthat I've been a huge fan of.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
For many, many years.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
But also excited to share some of the challenges
that you're facing in the Denvermarket.
That we all know is verychallenging, incredibly
expensive and some incrediblelearnings.
Give us a little bit of insightabout how long you've been in
the business, A little bit ofbackstory here.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Oh, my God, the whole , my whole, my, give us the
abbreviated version, and thenwe'll jump in how long you've
been in the business.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
A little bit of backstory here.
Oh my God, the whole my wholemy.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Give us the abbreviated version and then
we'll jump in, go back to the80s yeah Well, I'll give you my
Colorado.
So I moved out here fromChicago 94, spent a year in
Aspen, loved it.
I'm like I'm going to go buy aplace and settle down, and then
I saw the real estate prices.
I, and then I saw the realestate prices, I'm like, yeah,
that's not going to happen.
(04:27):
So I ended up in Boulder for ayear and then been in Denver
ever since Started.
Where was I?
I was sous chef at a BaroloGrill, which is still there,
high-end Italian.
Got to do the Italy trip withthose guys one year, which was
amazing.
And then from there I went onto open a sandwich shop called
Spicy Pickle sub shop.
There I went on to open asandwich shop called Spicy
(04:49):
Pickle Sub Shop A buddy of mine.
We ran it for five years fiveyears and we were spoiled with
the hours we were working and wehad three locations and making
good money and got a wild ideato franchise.
I usually don't use the F word.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
It is the F word.
It is the F word man.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Oh my God, was it an eye-opening experience.
And I talked to my brotherabout it and he was in finance.
He was a CFO of a large companyhere in Colorado and he's like
do you really want to do that?
And I'm like they're talkingabout stock, like three, four
bucks a share.
I'm going to own 12 millionshares.
Life's going to be good.
I ended up selling like 10million shares for like a half a
(05:34):
penny when I got fired from acompany that I started.
Oh, no.
Yeah, so that was quite theexperience.
I don't regret it.
It was fun because, like Imentioned, I have a high school
diploma.
These diplomas are fake.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Don't give it away, kevin.
Don't give it away, just fakeit.
How long did it take you to gopublic?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think the process from start to finish was maybe a
little bit over a year, withall the paperwork and everything
from start to finish was maybea little bit over a year, with
all the paperwork and everything.
We had brought on a guy.
It was my partner and I runningit and we were your typical
restaurant guys.
I mean, he was in his 20s, Iwas in my 30s, life was good,
and then had this opportunity tofranchise.
(06:20):
So we brought on a CEO, webrought on a CFO, we raised
funds, raised a bunch load ofmoney yeah you can cuss, it's OK
.
OK, yeah, raised.
It's just a shitload of moneyand it was just unreal how the
burn like had a register inevery state we were in and it
was a great learning experience.
(06:40):
I wouldn't bootstrap it.
You know it's back in the daywhen we opened you could
bootstrap a restaurant and getby.
It's very hard to do now, andthen franchising is a whole
nother world.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
We should do another episode about that alone.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, that's great I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
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Ok, so what happened afterSpicy Pickle?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What did happen?
Oh, after.
So I pitched the idea.
I'm like, hey, I went to ourCEO.
I'm like, hey, man, we shouldget a food truck and we won't do
sandwiches, we'll come up withanother concept.
And he's like a coach roach.
I'm like no man, they're,they're getting real popular now
.
So, um, we had kind of buttedheads and I got somehow.
I got terminated on Christmas,like December 23rd.
(08:41):
I got I was in Canada with myin-laws and I get.
He asked me to fly back.
So I flew back in December 23rd, got term in Canada with my
in-laws and he asked me to flyback.
So I flew back on December 23rd, got terminated.
I'm like, thanks, man.
So then I opened the taco truck,the first one.
It was called Pinché Tacos,just slang.
You know for the effort, itjust it was.
I like to call it dumb luck,because it was perfect timing
(09:03):
for food trucks in Denver andtacos around the country.
So we hit at the right time.
They were just very simpleauthentic ingredients, authentic
cooking styles, but with agringo twist, and it just took
off.
Honestly, it was nothing I hadplanned.
There was a very small businessplan.
There was a very small businessplan, but I rented the first
(09:27):
location off Colfax in New Yorkbecause I could afford the rent
if it went under.
And that's how we did the firstspicy pickle we rented the
cheapest place we could findbecause if it went under we both
could afford the rent.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Did you know you wanted to go from fruit truck to
?
Speaker 2 (09:43):
brick and mortar?
That's a good question.
I don't think I ever thoughtabout it, it just happened.
I think I'm a really lucky guybecause a lot of things just
happen and I noticed things thatjust happen I do better at than
when I plan things out.
We planned the Phoenix locationfor years and it didn't work.
(10:06):
Yeah, and the money we put intothat place, but when we just
opened it it just kind of like Iwent more with my gut.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So how did you find the Highlands location?
Did you plan for that one?
The second PJ, the second one.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
So the Highlands location?
No, the landlord called me upand he's like hey, man, I just
read an article about you.
I think it was in the Westwardor something and we were at my
niece's high school graduationdinner at Sullivan Steakhouse
downtown, which used to be there, my favorite steakhouse.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
And he's like I got a spot for you.
He's like Quiznos just backedout and I'm like I don't know if
I want to go in a spot whereQuiznos was going in.
Not that there's anything wrongwith Quiznos, but they tend to
be more of the corporate area.
So I went and looked at it andI just fell in love with it and
I had the A team at the originallocation.
I mean, every shift was the Ateam and I'm like I'm smart
(11:01):
enough to realize I'm like Ibetter utilize these folks or
they're going to leave so openthe second one and it you know
it was.
It was a great learningexperience because you can't
it's so hard to duplicate thingsand I'm a big fan of Pink's
Tacos or Pink's Hot Dogs in LAand they've had so many
(11:22):
opportunities to expand and theyjust they didn't want to
because they're like you can'tduplicate this and it's true.
Um, so I enjoyed it.
Looking back, I'm not sure Iwould have done it again.
Why not?
I love mom and pop places.
Uh, to me they lose kind of themystique when you start to
become a small chain.
I mean we had four of them atone time and to me they just
(11:46):
lose something, but that's justme.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, how did fish and beer come to be?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Fish and beer.
Uh, I was getting bored and Ineeded a new project and I'm
like I want to do a seafoodjoint, like I grew up.
I grew up in the Midwest, so itwas fish fries every Friday,
especially during Lent, like nomeat fish fries.
We my parents, when theyretired they would go down the
Gulf Coast of Florida everywinter and go to those seafood
(12:14):
shacks down there and everythingwas fried and I just loved it
and that's how that came about.
And our first menu, from wherewe are with the first menu to
where we are today, I mean it's180 degrees, it's totally
different.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, what have been the main changes.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We have more than four entrees on the menu.
Now the food is way moreapproachable.
I had a great chef partner atthe time and her food was a
little bit more high end than mycomfort zone, but I just let
her go with it.
Yeah, and it just it really Idon't think fit the neighborhood
.
Um, she left and then I jumpedback in the kitchen and just
(12:56):
started making some changes anddoing what felt right to me and,
uh, it's evolved into where weare today.
I got an amazing chef there now.
Um, and they just they do anawesome job so you've got the
location in rhino right locationrhino.
And then the other tacos,tequila, whiskey, 30 second
(13:17):
nerving in denver and then anairport deal how was what made
you decide to go into theairport?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Did you get a call?
You got another call.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
It was like my fifth call and honestly, I said no
because we had just got rejectedthe month before and I was
literally heartbroken over that.
I was like God, it's like itwasn't meant to be.
And the local company Skyport,who are my partners now their
COO, called me and she's like wewant to pitch you and I said I
(13:48):
just can't do it.
And I said I just lost this bid.
I really wanted this bid.
I loved it, loved the peoplethat we would have been partners
with, loved the concourse.
She goes can I call you in twoweeks?
I said, yeah, sure.
So in two weeks she called me.
I.
She goes can I call you in twoweeks?
I said, yeah, sure, so in twoweeks she called me.
I'm like, all right, let's doit.
So it was during COVID.
We had to do the pitch.
(14:08):
Um, we had a video or film it,videotape, whatever the kids do
now we had to do that.
So it was us Elway's and Pete'sCoffee, okay, and um, god, from
start to finish, probablythree-year process it's a long
process, for sure.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I went through it back in 07.
We lost.
Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, it's a long process it was a long process,
um, and then she called me andshe's like congratulations.
And I'm like on what.
She's like we got chosen.
I'm like for what?
And then it dawned on me.
I'm like are you kidding me'regoing to have a restaurant at
the airport?
Yeah, and it was just, it wasso cool.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, how's it been performing?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
It's good we started out.
It was doing okay, you know,but super happy with the team
out there.
The food is amazing, they do agreat job.
And then probably about we'vebeen open.
Oh my God, what's the dateWe've been open.
Oh my God, what's the date.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
It's almost a year.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, I think the 24th, nice Congrats.
I'm horrible with dates, butit's almost a year.
In the last five months, mansales have been very good,
everybody's happy, incredible.
And it's great because it's alicensed deal.
You know they call me once in awhile.
I mean, they are such a skyport.
(15:27):
I can't speak highly enoughabout those guys.
They're like hey, man, we wantto change the kosher salt, we
can't get this from our vendor,but we want to get your approval
.
I'm like yeah, sure, thanks bythe way.
Amazing yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
I mean, they really respect the brand and what's
going on and what we do.
Are you?
Are you done openingrestaurants For now?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Okay, I want to say something.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
If anybody's listening.
Give Kevin a call, Cause hemight be.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
No, I mean I, I would would.
I love restaurant business.
I my I love everything thatleads up to opening day and then
I like to pop in for openingday and shake some hands and and
have a couple drinks and thenleave and then, if I'm never
seen again, I'm cool with that.
The stress of day-to-day it,it's, I just don't it's, I don't
get that rush anymore what isit about the opening process
(16:33):
that draws you in so much?
oh, I love it.
I love the creative aspect ofit.
I love like sitting down and Iwish, I wish, hopefully,
someone's listening and they'relike hey, hey man, and I don't,
I don't need a lot of money.
It's like like I like hey,we'll give you whatever and you
design this concept and you getit open.
I would love that.
(16:54):
I love the creative process.
I love like all right, whatever.
It is like, hey man, you wantto do a Indian?
You know Indian, Indian,Mexican taqueria?
Like I love doing the research,I love doing the R and D, I
love doing the design, the flowof the restaurant, the
construction process, pickingout plateware, everything, the
(17:19):
equipment.
I love all that.
And then it's like afteropening day, it's like all right
, we got to do openingprocedures.
Hey, why didn't this?
Why didn't this cooler getchecked?
Why didn't this get wrapped?
Why didn't this get condensed?
That stuff drives me crazy.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I love it.
But I still love the industryand that's why I'm trying to
move into coaching.
So it's like, all right, I have40 years experience.
When I write everything down onpaper, I'm like, oh, I sound
like I should know what I'mdoing.
It looks good in black andwhite.
So that's what I'm doing now.
(17:56):
I still have the tworestaurants, I have an amazing
director of operations and justspending more time in Canada
with the kids.
But will I ever open arestaurant?
I would like to, becausethere's a couple of concepts I
have to get out of my system.
Okay, but I don't want to be thefinancial guy.
I'd rather be like, only like1%, and I'm fine with that.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Okay, love it.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Love the industry.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Let's talk about Denver and the challenges and
what's going on in the market.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
What has been?
Speaker 1 (18:27):
the biggest challenge for you.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Denver's tough.
Homeless is tough.
Minimum wage is tough.
Saturation the market'ssaturated.
Yeah, a lot of younger peopleare moving out of Denver because
they can't afford to buy.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, that's why we left.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, it's a tough market.
The city's going through some Idon't want to call it growing
pains because we've been thissize for a while.
Yeah, the new administration'shaving some struggles and I
think they're going to workthrough it.
It is frustrating to be on thisend because it's really hurting
(19:08):
retail.
It's hurting small businessowners not just restaurants but
any kind of small businessowners.
But I think hopefully theadministration will come around
and be like OK, we got todefinitely make some changes
administration will come aroundand be like okay, we got to
definitely make some changes.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Hey there, podcast friends, I hope you're enjoying
these impactful conversationsand leadership insights I'm
bringing you each week.
Before we dive back intotoday's episode, I want to take
a moment and reach out and ask asmall favor.
That would go a long way insupporting the show.
If you've been loving thecontent I'm providing, please
take a moment to leave a ratingand review.
Wherever you listen to yourpodcasts, Not only does it make
my day, but it also plays apivotal role in helping the show
(19:51):
grow.
Your reviews boost my visibility, attract new listeners and
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So if you want to be part of myshow's growth journey, hit that
review button and let me knowwhat you think.
Thanks a million for beingawesome listeners.
So let's talk about thesepoints individually.
(20:14):
The homeless aspect, orunhoused I'm not sure what the
verbiage is these daysSaturation you know, I was part
of the scene in 07 wheneverything just started to
explode and every localrestaurateur started popping up
with multiple concepts and theneighborhoods around the city
started exploding, and it justhasn't stopped.
Every time I come back, everyfew months, I just I have a new
(20:34):
laundry list of places.
It's insane.
Um, but let's, let's talk aboutthese individually.
Minimum wage um, saturation ofconcepts and competition, and
then homeless how do you handlethe homeless situation?
How does that impact yourbusiness?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You really can't handle them.
I've called the police numeroustimes.
The police are in a tough spot.
They get a bad rap.
In my opinion, they're in atough spot.
The person that should begetting calls is the DA, because
the DA doesn't want toprosecute and as long as they're
(21:11):
not doing anything illegal,they they can't, the police
can't do anything.
I mean, we've seen them smoking, crack right right on our patio
with guests three tables awayand it's like, unless the police
see it, um, they can't do any.
They can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Are you and I know there's this as a restaurateur
this desire to protect theexperience and the environment.
But from a guest perspective,are guests empathetic to, to
homeless people?
Are they complaining and dothey look at you and the team
and say what are?
Why aren't you doing somethingabout this?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You get both.
Most of the homeless people youknow, like when we were at
Colfax in New York.
You know, people know Colfax.
If you don't know Colfax, it'sa very funky strip.
It's been funky forever.
A lot of homeless.
We try to.
First of all, we try to treatthem with empathy.
(22:08):
You know I feel bad.
Whatever you know, I've wentout a few times, had
conversations.
The majority of the homelessthat I've come in contact with
and approach are kind, they'repolite.
They have some issues, theyhave some drug problems, they
have some mental problems.
They don't have the resources.
So that sucks right there.
(22:29):
That sucks in my heart, becauseI've been through several
mental breakdowns and depressionand anxiety where I couldn't
function.
So I'm very empathetic.
However, when it starts toaffect my business and my
livelihood and people I workwith and our money, it's a tough
spot.
So most guests are empatheticbut they sometimes they stay
(22:58):
away.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
We dealt with that, a lot being in Five Points, five
Points is right on that cornerof Park Ave and Larimer and we
would have you know we had apatio and we would have the same
people come up and eat offguest plates, take their
sandwich right off their plate,take the cash, tips or cash
right off the table, and we,just we had to train the staff
(23:21):
to just be uber aware.
And we same thing, we caredabout the community.
We were trying to do better,trying to make an impact, and we
would.
You know, everybody just had tobe on watch and have
conversations of like I'm sorry,you know you can't be here
today.
You got to move along, you knowit was challenging, for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It changes your training program.
For sure you have to add thatfactor in it.
It changes your trainingprogram.
For sure you have to add thatfactor in it.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It does, so how are you combating?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
saturation.
What are you doing about that?
Not opening more joints?
Okay, you know, I just tell thecrew, when I had Spicy Pickle,
we at the time the first, Idon't know how many years five,
six years we used only Boar'sHead and I'll never forget.
(24:18):
But the local distributor camein and I was all stressed out
because there was a new sandwichshop opening like across town.
And he's like, just focus ondoing what you do and let
everything else play out.
And man, that just stuck withme.
So I told my management team andI talked to the crew.
It's like, listen, guys, justdo what you do best.
We can't.
We have no say in who's goingto open across street.
I mean we've had Taquerias openincredibly close to us and I
(24:42):
was like it's kind of a bad move, you know, like it's just
there's gotta be some ethics andmorals in there.
But it is what it is, you know,and I mean we just do what we
do and a lot of it.
I just look as like, hey, man,we can only do so much.
We can only give great if wegive great service.
We can only give so much greatservice.
We make great tacos.
(25:03):
We can only make so great tacos.
We have to give the guests thereason to come back and
hopefully they'll bring someone.
If we do everything we can,we'll be okay.
Yeah, that's all you can do.
I mean there's nothing you can.
How do you deal with saturation?
I mean, you just have to stepup your game and make sure
you're dialing in every shift.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, keep your market share and keep it growing
.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah, let's talk about minimum wage, do we?
Speaker 2 (25:32):
have to.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
I know it's it's such a tired conversation, but what
are you doing to combat minimumwage?
I mean, how is that impactingyour P&L?
I don't see that Minimum wage.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
We've always paid well above it with the kitchen
guys Always Like.
I had a conversation a coupleof weeks ago.
I was the first pinche tacosback in the day.
I remember I was working likedoubles every day and I needed
someone to close.
So I was stressing out overpaying our shift supervisor 14
(26:06):
bucks an hour.
And she had the keys, she hadthe combination to the safe, she
handled all the cash, she didtip outs, she did all the
paperwork and I'm like man, Idon't know if we can afford it
and you got to sleep at nightand I got to get off a little
bit earlier and I just look, I'mlike 14 bucks an hour um the.
(26:28):
The minimum wage that reallyhurts is are the front of the
house, the tip minimum wage.
You know.
We're at 18, god, what is it?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
1882, I think and going up a dollar right what's
that?
Is it going to go up a dollarevery year?
I think next year it's going tostay the same.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I thought I looked at that.
But their tip minimum wage is302 less.
So you know, when they'remaking 1569, 1579, and they used
to be making $7, that's wherethe crunch, that's where the
pain comes in.
So and we do, we use the tipmodel for a TTW.
(27:05):
At fish and beer.
Everybody makes a minimum ofregular minimum wage because how
we do our tips and our kitchenguys, we make more than that.
But it has definitely hit the Pand L.
I think what you're going tosee is a lot of places are going
to entertain, going to fastcasual.
We actually we did a um, webuilt out a program or I forget
(27:31):
what you call it, but we built amodel.
We modeled what our taqueriawould look like.
Look like if it was just fastcasual, and we decided at that
time not to do it.
Um, I'm not saying it's goingto be, it's off the table
forever, but at that time wejust didn't want to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
What was the deciding factor there?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Was it experience, or did the numbers not make sense,
or the savings weren't largeenough to excite me and I'm a
big fan of service and I knowjust from when we opened the hot
second rolling pin pizza wasopen.
We had a fast, casual modelthere and we still nailed the
(28:09):
service.
But we've been in business Idon't know 14 years now is the
taqueria there?
It's.
I'm a little nervous, to behonest, about taking that away,
cause I think we'll lose someguests and it's one of those
things like how much do you losein sales?
Like how much do you lose insales versus how much do you
gain in less labor.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, especially I feel like when you're in a
neighborhood like you're, aneighborhood joint, like you are
, there's such a communitypresence and people gather and
drink and eat yeah.
And just gather there.
So let's talk about costs.
I mean, how, what do you do?
What are you controllingdifferently in your P&L in order
(28:49):
to to offset labor?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
We.
I made everybody get tattoosthat say prime cost on their arm
.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
You did not on their arm.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
You did not, okay, no , but I just thought about that.
I'm like, you know, a lot ofour staff has have tats and I'm
like, all right, I'll pay for it.
It is, I wear a few differenthats.
You know, I'm a small businessguy, I wear a few different hats
.
Yeah, but when I I look ateverything now and that is part
of my philosophy when I'mcoaching is like look at
everything as an investor.
(29:27):
Take out the emotions, take out, oh, I love this person.
Take out, oh, but guests lovethis.
Oh, but the chef loves thisdish.
Take all that out and look atit as numbers.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Kevin.
How do you do that?
It's so in my experience beingin the independent space.
It's so difficult.
It's so much easier said thandone.
How do you make that shift tomore data-driven decisions and
take that emotion out?
Speaker 2 (29:53):
of it recently in my whole philosophy is I just don't
give a.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
A light bulb went off .
To be honest with you, it'slike holy shit, like and now
that I'm, you know I'm still inthe industry and heavily deep in
the industry, but now that Iput on this coaching hat, it's
like, once opening day comes,the only thing that matters are
profits Like I love your farm totable, man, I love your culture
(30:29):
, I love this, but you can't doany of that unless you make
money.
Can't do any of that unless youmake money.
And if you're willing to godown with the ship over your
ethos or whatever you want tocall it, it's like man, that's.
That is not a good businessdecision.
So it sounds very cold and verybusiness-like, but we are in a
(30:55):
business and my job is to makemoney.
You know I had investors Istill have investors that
they're early on.
They got paid off, but I have aresponsibility to them to pay
them back.
You know they got paid back.
They're they're happy, they'refine.
But now to go out and raisehowever much it costs to open a
restaurant and the build-outcost, raise however much it
(31:19):
costs to open a restaurant andthe build-out cost.
Like the investors don't careabout your farm to table and all
this stuff unless they'remaking money.
Yeah, or at least not losingmoney yeah so I just yeah
flip the switch and it's likehey guys, I'm sorry.
When we started small, it waslike all right, we looked at the
schedule everybody's coming in15 minutes later and that moved
(31:42):
the needle a little bit.
Yeah.
And then, once you get buy-infrom the staff, then they start
getting creative with ideas andyou know, hey, we can use these
leftovers.
Or why are we?
Why are we ordering so much?
And you know we have a lot ofsystems.
I'm very pleased with thesystems we have in place and I'm
(32:03):
always looking for new systems.
But we really try to pinchpennies and squeeze all that
lemon out of that juice or allthe juice out of the lemon, and
then it's like, all right, nowwhat can we do with the lemon
waste?
How can we use that to makemoney?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
So it's just looking at.
I look at things now as aninvestor, yeah, and it's helped
dramatically before I looked atit as a chef owner.
For years I looked at it as achef and then you could back in
the day and then it went to chefowner and it's like all right,
and then now it's strictlyinvestor.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
How are you passing that on to your staff, that
mindset?
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Through my director of operations.
He's the people person.
He and I talk a lot and he's afellow Midwest he.
I love his work ethic and hegets it.
He's a smart dude, he.
He went to school out there, hewent to, he went to ASU.
No U of A.
He went to U of A, okay, nice,yeah, business guy and he gets
(33:12):
it.
And our staff is amazing, likeI'm sure everybody says that.
But man, they're just, they'rewilling to look at things
differently, they're open,they're, they don't have egos,
they're not cocky when they,when the wheels fall off, they
admit it and they learn from itand it's, it's fun yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
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(33:52):
audio book today.
So what's made the biggestimpact in terms of prime cost?
Is it all these little bittythings that you've been doing
and the staff's been doing?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
We always did pretty well with our food.
I was always pleased with ourfood cost and our liquor cost.
We tightened up some of ourordering procedures for food.
We tightened up the waste.
We tightened up prep.
I mean, we broke it down.
Staff kitchen staff wasn'thappy about this, but they came
(34:27):
around.
We literally timed every dishthat it took the prep and then
we took that and we looked atour product mix and say, okay,
this dish is it takes ourlongest to prep.
Um, and it's not a big mover.
So we considered it a dog,which I don't know why they call
it dogs.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I love dogs.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
You know, dogs are my favorite animal, so all right,
it's a dog.
We either have to tweak it orget it off the menu.
We started looking at dollarprofit on every single dish and
some dishes, you know, I'll behonest, we had to raise the
price on not much, but we didn'thave a price change in what was
it over two years at eitherrestaurant.
(35:09):
Wow, we should have been doingprice increases more often.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, how often would you do them?
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Oh my gosh, I don't.
Some people say every quarter.
I've heard people say everymonth probably.
I'd probably do once a yearlike moving forward.
We'll probably adjust thingsonce a year.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Did you do all of that menu costing by hand?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
No, we use R365, which is a beast.
A lot of people that I'mspeaking with lately they use
Margin Edge and I just heardgreat things about it.
We looked at it and my directorof ops, brian, said if you do
it, I'm leaving because you'd bethe one doing everything.
(35:57):
I just signed the contract andbe the one doing everything.
I just signed the contract andsend the check.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
He does it all.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And he's like it is so much input up front.
So but once you get that in,man it's.
It's a sweet system.
R365 is massive.
There is so much there.
Brian literally spends one daya week learning more, and we've
had it for eight, nine, tenyears.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Wow, are you using everything that it offers?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
No, my God, no, not even no.
We're using a hell of a lotmore now than we were two years
ago, though I mean we, brian andI think the same so we can only
take in so much data, you know.
So we pick and choose, but itis a beast.
It's a great system for justhaving two restaurants.
(36:46):
Honestly, I don't think the tworestaurateur needs it.
Yeah, but at this time we weregrowing, we had five restaurants
we were looking to do.
I wanted to double in size inthe next few years, and so it
was a great system.
But from what I hear, marginedge is really easy to work with
(37:08):
and you know you got someupfront admin time to enter
everything.
But once it's done it's areally good system.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Well, we were talking about that last week, right,
that's.
That is the hurdle when, whenrestaurants switch is who's
going to do all this data entry?
and yeah, it's correct and andyeah, the demo I just did with
margin edge looks looks killer I.
I love their recipe.
Costing ask.
I don't know if r365 has thisbecause I'm not super familiar
with it, but I love that you cancost the menu out per item and
(37:37):
look and go okay, this menu iscosting us, it's at 22% and then
every time you enter an invoicein, it will automatically
update that cost.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
That's what's cool, is you get real time Like I'm
old school.
So I still, to this day, I doeverything by hand.
And then our our chef at fishand beer wine.
He, he's a computer guy, so hehas his own Excel sheet and then
he's learning our 365.
So he likes the computerversion.
(38:05):
And even when I do it by handwe're off just by a couple
pennies.
So we teach two ways, we teachold school, we teach my way, and
we even say you'll learnKevin's way first, and then
(38:25):
you'll learn learn brian's wayand brian is.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
You know, he's the it guy, he's our marketing guy,
he's everything.
Yeah, how much time is that areyou and the team dedicating to
that?
Speaker 2 (38:30):
to to costing to the continuous learning now is
everything on the menu food andbeverage, everything is 100%
costed out and it's it lives inour 365.
So obviously, when we have anew dish on the menu, our chef
or kitchen manager whateverplace it's at they're
responsible for doing that.
(38:51):
But then we're all.
We're always revisiting.
You know, we have our kitchenmanager.
She wants to move up, so she'sstarting.
(39:16):
She monitors the invoices, opsand she'll do the new costing
out by hand so she can see ohman, this went up a dollar and
this is how it's going to affectour menu.
So we're constantly teachingthat.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
OK, what other big challenges are you facing right
now?
What other big challenges areyou facing?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
right now.
You know we're good with labor,we're fully staffed.
It takes, we're interviewingfor a new management position
now.
And it's still amazing that theno-shows you get.
Yeah, so that's a challenge.
Yeah, still amazing that the noshows you get yeah, so that's a
(39:59):
challenge.
Yeah, um, but the biggestchallenge is the uncertainty of
the economy.
How are the tariffs going tohit us?
What, you know, do we do?
We buy in bulk.
You know we reach out to ourour main liquor distributor here
is rndc.
We're big with them and they'resitting on a lot.
They they brought in a lot ofproduct, but it's like, okay, if
(40:20):
we could hit with these tariffs, what is that going to look
like?
And it was like when COVIDfirst hit and we were all in.
You know, we had a huge layoffon like day three of COVID and
then myself, our admin person,our director of ops, our HR
person we had an accountant atthat time.
Every day at one o'clock we goton a call.
(40:42):
What's the update?
What's the update?
And it was the same when thetariffs were being threatened.
What are we going to do?
What are we going to do andwe're doing all these models
about?
Okay, if this, this and we'relooking at, okay, can we come
out with a tariff-free menu Like, what items can we get that are
being by tariff?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And it's like well, avocados no, tequila, no.
Pesto, no, no, yeah, whiskey,all right, we're tacos, tequila,
whiskey, push the whiskey manyeah.
Yeah, whiskey man, yeah, yeah,hopefully they won't know that
they're four dollar tacos, noweight bucks, yeah.
But and then we just like youknow what, we're just going to
(41:23):
ride it out, we're?
We can't sit here andconstantly do different models.
Yeah we'll, we'll react veryfast.
That's one advantage we have ofbeing small is we can react.
We print menus in-house forfish and beer so we can
literally change the menu beforeevery shift if we have to.
So that's, the uncertainty ofthe economy is nerve wracking.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like you've got a good
game plan, though You've gotbackup plans in place.
You're getting everybodythinking strategically.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, and you know our chefs, our managers, our bar
managers, our GMs they'rereally good, they have a great
relationship with our vendorsand it's like, listen, we know
you guys don't control it, butwhen you get word let us know.
And if we have to takesomething off the menu.
I mean, a couple of years agobeef prices were so high and at
that time our number one tacowas a Sada and and we took it
(42:17):
off the menu for the summer justbecause it's like guests
complain, but it's like you wantto pay $8 for a taco.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Like you don't.
You say you do, but you don't.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
And then, if you do, then you'll go on one of these
Instagrams or whatever and ripus because we're charging $8 for
a taco, yeah, or whatever, andrip us because we're charging
eight bucks for a taco.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, what are you going to do if guest spend?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
declines or guest traffic declines.
You know we'll adapt.
We're seeing the per personaverage, the spend that's down
from last year.
Luckily at Fish and Beer ourfoot traffic is up, which is
good.
Our numbers are up there.
Ttw it's about even Ifeverything declines, we just
(43:08):
have to go with it.
We have to change our model, sothat might be.
You know we're shrinking ourmenu at TTW a little bit.
It's a big menu so we did amenu engineering and looked at
everything so that'll be shrunkdown.
We'll probably.
If we have to cut staff, we'llcut staff and then that's when
(43:29):
that model of fast casual forTTW might come in, if we're
really forced to do it mightcome in if we're really forced
to do it.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Kevin, how do you preserve your energy and passion
for being, as it just soundslike, you're constantly evolving
and your team is too?
How do you protect that energy?
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Well, I have ADHD, so that helps.
Um, my lavazza coffee helps.
Okay, and honestly, I just loveit.
I love business, and Ispecifically the restaurant
business.
I love it.
I just I've always loved it.
I graduated high school 83.
I wanted to go to chef school.
(44:11):
My parents like chef school.
No, I'll never forget if youhave a.
This is a short story, Ipromise.
In 1983 I'm a senior in highschool.
I want to go to chef school.
My brother and sister went toIndiana University.
I was expected to go there.
I wanted to be a chef.
My dad, somehow he knew thischef at this restaurant and he's
(44:33):
like, all right, I'm going togo talk to him.
So I go talk to him.
I came home I'm like, yep, I'mgoing to chef school.
He's like didn't you, didn't hetell you how many hours he
worked?
I'm like, yeah, he works 60hours a week.
I'm like, dad, he's making 25000 a year and he goes, but he's
working 60 hours a week.
I go you did you?
Don't get it.
(44:53):
He making 25 grand.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Dad's plan backfired.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
And I loved it.
I just you know I tried to getout a few times.
I'll be honest.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
I was at the point.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
It's like F this, I'm going to go do something else,
and then it's like I got to goback.
I love it too much and you knowthere's different.
I used to love being on theline in the rush and blah, blah,
blah.
Um, I can't keep up with thecrew anymore yeah I just can't
and I get in their way and so Ikind of back off and there's
(45:28):
some time, days, I'll go in andI'll prep or play around with a
new dish and man the kitchen.
It's like I get home that nightmy knees hurt, my feet hurt, my
toenails hurt, my fingernailshurt.
So I'm like, all right, I'll,I'll do more of an office job.
I like the creative aspect ofit and that's what keeps me
going.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, well, good for you for recognizing that you,
you're getting in the team's way.
I think there's a lot of,there's a lot of owners that
don't think that way.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Well it's funny because the crew, the kitchen
crew at Fish and Beer, they callme Tornado.
And I'm like hey, that's a nicecompliment Cause I go real fast
and stuff.
And they're like no, becauseyou're a disaster.
I went to my station one nightand it's the messiest station
because you know you're dipping,you're dipping the fish in in
the flour and then the batter,and my station was trashed and
(46:20):
they're just laughing at me andat the end of the night they're
like you're okay, jefe?
And I'm like thank you.
And then someone said tornado.
I'm like why tornado?
And he told me I'm like oh,dude, that's not nice.
But yeah, I realize what I'mgood at and I realize what I'm
not good at anymore, and whatI'm good at is very little.
(46:42):
So I just try to focus on thatand have a big impact.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
I love it.
I love it.
It's do as I say, not as I do,right.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Pretty much.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
I love it.
I love it.
Well, kevin, thank you so much.
This has just been awesome.
It's so great.
I'm so glad that we've beenable to connect and be a part of
this next step of your journeytogether in the coaching world,
and just love hearing more aboutyour insights and your passages
comes through every time we'reon a phone call or texting or
whatever I feel it.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
So I'll be cussing in a few hours, I'm sure, and me
like what the F am I doing here?
But at the end of the night Ilove it.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, yeah, and when you're soconnected to your purpose and
your passion, it makes thosethose tough days seem not as
tough, right?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Yeah, and it's really cool to see like this.
I call it the next generationof 30 year olds.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
You know, it's cool to see them like put their spin
on things.
Yeah, and take what I say.
And it's like, all right, can Ido this, try to try this?
And it's like, hey, man, aswell, as long as we come up with
the end results, same, howeveryou get there, is that that's on
you?
Yeah, so it's cool, I like it.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Good for you.
Good for you for empoweringyour team that's, that's
absolutely incredible and andbeing able to to take a step
back the way that you have andjust let your team shine and
lead um, especially havingmultiple concepts.
I know that's that's easiersaid than done.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
It took a while, yeah .
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, that's great.
Well, thank you again for yourtime.
Thanks for all the value and uh, I know we're going to chat
tomorrow about uh on ourcoaching about some fears around
recession and some things to do.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
So, looking forward to that conversation, looking
forward to it Awesome.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
All right, my friend, I'll talk to you very soon.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
All right, thank you, dear.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Bye-bye.
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