Send me a Text Message. I'd love to hear from you.
Ever wondered what happens when a corporate executive trades the boardroom for the bakery kitchen?
Neman Popov's story of launching Roggenart European Bakery, Bistro & Cafe offers a masterclass in entrepreneurial perseverance and leadership growth.
From signing a bad lease in his first location to now operating 10 thriving stores across multiple markets, Neman's journey wasn't just about scaling a business—it was about discovering who he was as a leader.
"The trouble with trouble is that it starts as fun," he laughs, recalling how his restaurant "hobby" evolved into a full-time passion despite daily thoughts of walking away during those first challenging years.
What makes Neman's approach to leadership so compelling is his focus on continuous self-improvement. Rather than comparing himself to competitors, he embraces a Kaizen mentality: "I was always competing with myself from yesterday."
This philosophy extends to how he builds his team, seeking individuals who demonstrate accountability and a growth mindset.
His interview technique? Asking candidates about past goals and how they've handled failures—revealing insights into how they'll own responsibilities within his business.
The recent expansion to Chicago's saturated food scene represents the boldest chapter yet in the Roggenart story. While his team initially thought he was "nuts," the move exemplifies Neman's refreshing perspective on risk: "I don't know if I'm managing the risk or the risk is managing me... I view it as adventure."
He embraces the Japanese concept of wabi-sabi—finding beauty in imperfections rather than waiting for something to be perfect.
Whether you're contemplating your first location or planning market expansion, this episode delivers practical wisdom on self-financing growth, targeting "second-generation" spaces, and building commissary operations that maintain quality across multiple locations.
More importantly, it reminds us that true success balances emotional fulfillment, physical health, and professional satisfaction.
Join us to discover how freshly crafted European pastries became the foundation for powerful lessons in restaurant leadership, strategic growth, and finding joy in the entrepreneurial journey.
Resources:
Roggenart Bakery, Bistro & Cafe
More from Christin:
Grab your free copy of my audiobook, The Hospitality Leader's Roadmap: Move from Ordinary to Extraordinary at christinmarvin.com/audio
Curious about one-on-one coaching or leadership workshops? Click this link to schedule a 15 minute strategy session.
Podcast Production: https://www.lconnorvoice.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast,
the show where restaurantleaders learn tools, tactics and
habits from the world'sgreatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,with Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
(00:29):
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
(00:50):
like to hear about, leadershiplessons you want to learn and
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
.
(01:14):
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podcast.
All right, hi everybody, we aregoing to get started.
For those of you that are hereat the National Restaurant Show
standing in line at Starbucks,we're going to give you a little
(02:42):
bit of content to listen totoday while you're waiting in
line.
This is the RestaurantLeadership Podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,and I am joined today by Neiman
Popoff from Rogan Art EuropeanBakery and Cafe.
Welcome, neiman.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's great to be here .
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So happy to have you today, thank you.
We have met briefly on LinkedInand had a couple of
conversations over the phone,and now we're here in person,
which is just magical, so reallyappreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Loving it.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Tell us a little bit about Rogan Art and give people
kind of an understanding thatare here of what it's all about,
and then we'll kind of diveinto the story a little bit
about where the brand came from.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is a European bakery, beach-run cafe
headquartered in Maryland, andwe have 10 locations.
It is focusing on freshlycrafted pastries from scratch,
and everything that we do isfrom scratch, made in small
batches throughout the day, sothat we guarantee maximum
freshness and great taste.
And basically, the mission isnot only to delight the
(03:39):
customers, but also to create anexperience that comes to life
for anybody who walks in, andalso to be a part of the
community, to provide content tothe community and for the local
people to have where to meetand hang out and enjoy great
food.
So it's about actuallydiscovering life.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I love that discovering life that's
beautiful.
So you have a very interestingbackground that's not
necessarily rooted in food andbeverage.
How did this concept come to befor you?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
The trouble with trouble is that it starts as fun
.
I was a corporate guy that waslooking for a hobby.
Everybody thinks restaurantsare easy when you're not in the
industry and then you start it,but then you simultaneously fall
in love with it.
It's a strange relationship oflove and hate.
And then I ended up making itmy full-time thing I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And when was that?
What year was that?
That started in 2016, okay, anddid you when you opened your
first one?
Were there some challenges thatyou were?
Did you ever think like I'mmaybe I'm going to walk away
from this?
Or you just knew like this iswhat I want to do for the rest
of my life?
For?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
about, I think, good, three years every.
There was not even a day thatpassed by that I didn't think,
okay, I'm walking away, I reallydidn't need this.
Wow, this is, this is not forme.
Yeah, and that was unfortunate.
I learned or fortunately Ilearned through a lot of
mistakes.
So when I say I have experiencein the industry, the experience
came from me walking throughthe wall headfirst.
(05:10):
So even the first location thatwe opened, the lease that we
signed was bad.
The setup was bad, so manymistakes.
So we ended up actually walkingout of that lease after three
years Wow.
And then opened anotherlocation mistake.
So we ended up actually walkingout of that lease after three
years, wow.
And then open another location.
And then it took good, let'ssay all together, from the first
location four years until weopened the second one.
(05:33):
And opening the second one, thecomplexity of running two
versus running one was, to mysurprise, times five, not not
times two.
And this is when, actually, youknow, the true learning started
happening.
You know how do you actuallybuild a restaurant business?
(05:55):
And I was doing all of thatfrom my.
I was financing the entireexpansion myself and still am.
We do not have any equity orcapital partners in the business
.
And right now it's easier andit's more fun once you scale to
(06:16):
a point that you can puttogether a team that can
actually help you on thatjourney, and then it becomes
more about the team than aboutthe owner.
And the other day I was talkingto somebody and they asked me
so what do you actually do inyour own business?
And a lot of owners say, hey,I'm the visionary, I am Thanks.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
A round of applause for the visionaries out there.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But, you know, I think every owner is actually
the soul of the business, and myjob right now is more taking
care of the people who run thebusiness.
I'm still involved day to day.
However, most of my engagementis market-facing activities.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
When you were going through those first three years
and the challenges were just sopresent for you every single day
, what kept you going?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Perseverance, and I think it's part of the character
, that desire that you have tofind a way to make it work and
just not willing to give up, andthe constant idea there is
thousands and thousands ofpeople who made it work.
I have to make it work.
And this is also when thegrowth and learning process
(07:33):
started.
Being in the corporate worldand actually being quite high up
in the corporate world makesyou a little bit arrogant in
terms of that.
You think you know something,and then becoming an
entrepreneur is a very humblingexperience is when you actually
it makes you a little bitarrogant in terms of that.
You think you know something,and then becoming an
entrepreneur is a very humblingexperience is when you actually
realize how little do you know,and it is almost like equivalent
(07:53):
to relearning how to walk, butat the same time, a rewarding
experience, that rush of joywhen you did something well or
things started picking up.
It is just an incrediblefeeling, and it might not be for
everybody, but for people whoenjoy adventure and for people
(08:15):
who are really driven, who areeager to grow, who work on
themselves, it's the right move.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
How did you develop that perseverance?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I don't know if I did anything in particular to
develop it.
I sort of always had it in me.
I think that that mindset thatyou grow up with and the mindset
, the narrative that you createfor your own self in your head,
is the key element, and that islike the continuous growth is
what you do every day to growyourself.
(08:50):
Growth is what you do every dayto grow yourself.
That's that a little bit Kaizenmentality, because I was always
sort of competing with myselffrom yesterday.
Okay, and if I can be betterthan myself, I never lost a lot
of time comparing myself toothers or envying others or
wanting to be like others.
I just wanted to be a betterversion of myself every day.
And I'm actually still workingon that every day and I think
(09:15):
that learning and that personalgrowth never stops.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Hi everybody.
We're taking a quick break tooffer you an exciting
opportunity.
If you're a restaurant owner ormanager looking to enhance your
leadership skills, I invite youto join my 12-day leadership
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(09:44):
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Slash 12 days.
Now let's get back to the show.
Have you taken that mindset andtranslated it to the business
as well, in terms of thinking onhow we can be better every
single day, every single shift?
(10:04):
Absolutely.
How is that showing up in yourculture today?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
It is showing up with a high level of engagement, and
the idea is to create a teamand to have team members who are
really interested in growingthemselves, because this is what
I think a person that does notwork on their own growth,
they're not going to growanybody else's business.
So you try to surround yourselfwith good people who have
(10:32):
similar mentality and a similarpersonality.
The old famous, you know higherpersonality.
Train the skill and then takegood care of your people.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
How are you identifying those personalities
and that growth mindset duringthe interview process at all of
your locations?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I think this is actually the toughest part
interview process at all of yourlocations.
I think this is actually thetoughest part.
We've tried with differenttypes of testing, we've tried
with several levels ofinterviews.
It's still.
I can't say that I think that Ihave the recipe of how to get
the right candidate every time.
(11:10):
We still make a mistake almostdaily, daily in now, in the
meantime, in in 10 stores.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Uh, we truly do not have a high turnover of of
people, but still, you know,mistakes are always going to
happen did you know when youstarted robin art that you
wanted to open a certain numberof locations, or are you kind of
just waiting to see whathappens with the business?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Well, I always had a vision, and the vision is to
actually create a national brand, and the main motivation is not
in the money, it's just againbeing the best version of
yourself and growing andfocusing on being great and
awesome at what you do.
I think success, and everythingthat comes with success, is a
(11:54):
consequence and you cannot workon it.
You can work on your ownpersonal growth and growth of
the business and learning fromyour mistakes, and then you
scale as much as you want toscale.
I'm not putting a cap or abottom to ambition.
I'm a firm believer.
You cap or a bottom to a bishop.
You know, I'm a firm believer.
You either have it or you don't, and as long as you have it,
(12:17):
you just keep on going.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I love that.
I love that.
How are you developing yourselfas a leader today?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
A lot of reading, a lot of learning from other
people.
I.
I think being surrounded bygreat people, from, uh, from
from who you can learn, is veryimportant.
I try to be in interesting room, not necessarily influential
rooms, but interesting roomswhere you meet, uh, great people
who are inspired and who areambitious and who are growing
(12:55):
learning.
That's pretty much it.
And I read a lot of books.
I think I go through five, six,seven books every day because
I'm genuinely interested.
I'm trying to be the bestversion of myself, and that best
version of myself shouldactually pull the entire, all
the team members, to be the bestversion of myself, and that
best version of myself shouldactually pull the entire, all
the team members, to be the bestversions of themselves, which
(13:16):
then pull the business.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
What are you reading right now that you love?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Right now I'm actually reading several books,
so I go through books in phases.
Right now, I'm actually readingFyodor Dostoe.
Right now, I'm actually readingFyodor Dostoevsky.
I'm actually reading BrothersKaramazov, which is just wild
and insane.
That was like a mental breakfrom all the, let's say, CEO
(13:43):
books.
The most recent one that Iactually read was from Bob Iger
about the Disney.
I can't remember.
I think I don't know what it isum.
And the next book that I'mgoing to read is from the owner.
I'm horrible with names yes okay, uh, it's the container store
(14:05):
owner, okay, who wrote a book.
It's about, you know, it'sabout conscious growth of the
company, where he kept it infamily, and that container store
was voted best employer in theUS for many, many years in a row
and the guy is an inspiringleader.
Despite that, I forgot his name.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But it is, and I can't wait to read his book.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I love it.
What does success look like foryou as you grow?
Rogan art.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Success looks like happiness, you know, and I think
it's it's balancing sort ofthree aspects of your life.
You know it's it's it's beingemotionally fulfilled and and
everything that comesemotionally and spiritually.
Number two, being physicallyhappy, being healthy and making
(14:58):
sure that your body that carriesyou and your soul and whoever
you are on the inside is healthy.
And then also beingprofessionally fulfilled and
then also being professionallyfulfilled.
So balancing those three andbeing aware and mindful about
(15:19):
the equilibrium of these threeintelligences however you want
to call it, that sort of residewithin your body that are the
same you but are a little bitdifferent.
Balancing them.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Do you have a recipe to balance those three?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
no, I think that is that that is super individual.
Yeah, you know, it just dependson so many uh things.
So I define the character perperson as a loose confederation
focus on the word confederationof inclinations, habits and
circumstances.
Right, so think about whatdefines you and what defines
(15:55):
that actual balance is actuallythe circumstances that you're in
, your inclinations as mean asas in terms of your nature and,
uh, your habits.
That's why I think, likecreating and working on on great
habits is is one of themandatory things for everybody.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
What are some of the greathabits that you've been able to
build that have helped you besuccessful?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Discipline, hard work , wisdom, kindness, and that's
pretty much it.
Kindness.
When I say kindness, it'srespectfulness and that's pretty
much it.
Kindness.
When I say kindness, it'srespectfulness, it's gratitude,
it's just trying to be a goodhuman being that is benevolent
(16:42):
to the entire community andeverything that he or she
touches.
Discipline, I think you know it, is the motivation, gets you
started.
Discipline gets you to thatfinish line.
So I think that is when youhave mornings where you don't
feel like going to work oryou're going to be having tough
(17:03):
conversations, that despite that, you push yourself through it.
In the end you are going to besatisfied and happy with
yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I love it when you were growing from one to 10, and
you just opened number 10,right Are we?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
this week.
Actually, yeah, we just openedup the second store in Chicago
this Saturday.
It was a very soft opening.
Learn it the hard way whenyou're small do not do.
Do not do hard openings, youknow you're in.
It turns into a crisismanagement more than a
celebratory event.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, tell everybody that's standing in line where
the two locations in Chicago is,so they can go check it out.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The two locations in Chicago.
One is in Lincoln Park onDeversy and the other one is on
Halstead in Boys Town.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Okay, love it.
When you were planning thisexpansion from one to 10, what
was your strategy in terms ofthe leadership team that you
wanted to surround yourself with?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
When you're small, it is tougher because everybody's
looking for good people, smallercompanies.
It's more like recognizing ahidden talent or giving an
opportunity to somebody whomight just have it in them.
What was the most crucial thing?
(18:22):
I think it is trying to lookfor the right personality,
trying to look for the rightteam.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
What does that look like for you?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
For me that looks like defining what type of a
person would I like to have as ateam member and then trying to
on interviews to figure out.
Is that the person that I'mactually looking for?
And just asking from thebehaviors and experiences from
the past, because I think youknow, the behaviors from the
(18:54):
past will impact the behaviorsin the future.
So, basically, how somebody hashandled the past is a good
indicator how they will behaveand what they will do in the
future.
So, asking about things youknow, like when is the last time
when they have set a goal andthat they have achieved it and
what did they do to achieve itRight.
(19:14):
Asking things, okay, last timewhen they have set a goal and
that they have achieved it, andwhat did they do to achieve it
right.
Um, asking things, okay, give mean example when you messed up
and how you handle it.
You know, with that a littlebit of I don't want to say
hidden agenda, but with the ideathat that you want to figure
out how does somebody own theirresponsibility?
How is somebody going to ownthat accountability in the
business?
Because I think accountabilityis one of the most important
(19:38):
parts of the structure in anybusiness, because you usually
get what you tolerate.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, do you feel like you have a strong sense of
understanding and knowing andidentifying when somebody is
actually being honest and openabout those challenges, or when
they haven't, when they've, whenthey've set a goal for
themselves but they haven't metthe goal, or how they've
overcome some challenges intheir life?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
You know, I've missed it so many times that I don't
know if I can brag.
I keep on trying, but it'salways a little bit of a hit and
miss.
It's hard to read people, butit's also hard for anybody to
hide their true personality andwork ethic and everything for an
(20:18):
extended period of time.
I think within three months youwill figure out who is what
type of profile and I think youknow the moment that you realize
, the moment that one of the bigmistakes that I was making is I
was getting too upset with somepeople around me, with my
expectations, and one of thebiggest reliefs in my life came
(20:42):
when I made a simple decisionthat I will either accept that
person the way it is or I willdo something about it.
And every time I got upset andstill, if I get upset at work,
it is you know I'm either goingto do something about it or I'm
going to accept it.
If I'm going to accept it, I'mtruly am going to accept it and
work with it.
And once you have that mentalclarity, I think that that sort
(21:07):
of helps guiding you in yourdecision-making process when it
comes to team selection.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Is there something recently that you've accepted
that has made a positive impactin the business?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yes, I have accepted some of the team members for
what they actually are, and forsome of the team members I've
decided to take some actionagainst it.
And these are, let's say, someof the leadership roles in the
business.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
What were some of those key leadership positions
that you knew that you needed toget from, let's say, one to
five locations?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It is basically, I think, the organizational
structure and scaling is superimportant.
It's mapping out how the futurelooks like and how you're going
to develop all of thosepositions.
Because it's a small restaurant, you actually do not have the
resources to, you know, identifythe process, plug in and have
(22:14):
the owner of every process, butyou have to have people who wear
many hats, but then you sort ofcreate a map forward.
What do you do?
You know, once business, oractually the operation, scales
to such a point that you have toget on another person and what
the priorities are.
So, for example, for us it wasobviously the store operations
(22:36):
department.
You know, from one personrunning multiple stores for that
person to get some functionalsupport in terms of, let's say,
quality, in terms of service, interms of general services,
because, you know, last year Ihad a feeling that that there
was that we were spending somuch time and just fixing and
(22:58):
troubleshooting items likemaintenance, like roof is
leaking or, you know, like wehave to step up the pest control
.
There is always somethingphysical to be done in the, in
the store.
Yeah, right, so this was thefirst department that we started
staffing with, with, let's say,middle management.
That was the, the operations,and probably the the.
(23:21):
The next one is going to bemarketing Cause I think you know
marketing is such an importantpart of the part of the business
because it's the perceptionthat brings in the customers.
When I opened the first door,panera was almost like across
(23:41):
the street and Panera is anamazing company and everything.
But I thought we are smallartisan.
We have a similar footprint.
It was a smaller Panera.
We have a similar footprint.
We should be outperforming them.
People are going to see Paneraand they're going to see
something new and this is goingto be a nicer ambience.
It's going to be a prettysimilar portfolio to what they
(24:02):
have, but this is just going tobe a little bit better.
It didn't happen.
Panera was times three or timesfour of the sales that we had.
Then you realize what the powerof the brand actually means,
because all the restaurants andall the food places are fighting
for that share of stomach,right, and the share of stomach
(24:23):
comes from the top of mind and Ithink, once you pass a certain
point, there has to be a verystrong focus on marketing.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
So you started in Maryland and then Virginia.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yes, that's the DMV area.
That's like North Virginia, dcand Maryland, it's pretty much
all one area.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
And then, what made you decide to try out Chicago as
the next city?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
The idea was okay.
If you really want to scale,can you build a parallel concept
in a different region and makeit actually work?
Number two Chicago is a foodieplace and it's oversaturated
with competition and you have tobe really good at what you're
doing in order to make it.
(25:09):
Here in Chicago and this was agreat challenge for the
organization Are we really readyand what challenges we are
going to encounter whenexpanding?
And I think it's.
I thought it was better to do itearly on, because if you scale
enough and you make a blunderwhen you're already known, that
(25:31):
hurts much more than making ablunder when you're small and
unknown, because you're forgivenmuch easier.
You know, I think a customerwill forgive a brand that is
just new, or like mom and popshop that just opened.
They're like oh yeah, they'restill working their way up.
You see a big company.
You see a Starbucks open.
They won.
You want it to be like on topof every process.
(25:54):
They got to get it flawlessly.
But small stores they're likehey, like on top of every
process, they got to get itflawlessly, yeah, but small
stores they're like, hey, that'spart of the charm.
That's the concept.
That's a Japanese concept.
It's called wabi-sabi.
It's learning to enjoy theimperfections small
imperfections, right.
Because if you wait forsomething to be perfect, you
know, and if you're just goingto enjoy perfection, you're
never actually going to enjoylife yeah you know and I'm
(26:16):
trying to apply that concept youknow you open a story, you're
going to get it wrong sometimes,but actually the beauty becomes
that imperfection that's risky.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
To go into a market that's so far away, that's so
saturated, that's risky, myfriend extremely how have you
developed the skill of managingrisk in your career?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Cool.
I don't know if I'm managingthe risk or the risk is managing
me, but it's a weirdrelationship between me and risk
.
I view it as adventure and Iwas ready to make mistakes.
I tried to apply all theknowledge and experience to
(27:04):
minimize those mistakes and Itried to learn from all the
mistakes that I've done in thepast and I am very satisfied
with how we launched it inChicago.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, how did the first location do?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I think it's actually doing pretty well.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Was your team on board like your leadership team
on board with opening in Chicago, or did you get some pushback?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
They all thought that I was nuts yeah, opening in
Chicago.
Thought I was nuts, yeah,opening in Chicago.
But you know, after, everybodywho comes and visits Chicago
falls in love.
Oh it's.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And then it became a race.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Who is going to be the next one coming to Chicago?
Okay, Right.
So I think team members alsoenjoyed and for the first month
we had three team members fromMaryland here in Chicago making
sure to set it up right.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Awesome, awesome, that's great.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Still made a lot of mistakes, but that's the fun of
it.
Yeah, I think, if you realizethat nobody's perfect, that the
mistakes are going to be there,that you have to enjoy the
process, that it's not about thedestination, it's about about
the destination.
It's it's about you know that's.
That's an eternal question.
You know, a pursuit ofhappiness or the happiness of
(28:22):
the pursuit.
You have two different types ofpersonalities.
I enjoy the pursuit.
I enjoy, I enjoy buildingsomething that is, that is an
adventure.
It is, you know, working in afast paced, environmentpaced
environment and creatingsomething fun and memorable.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
What does the next five years look like for you?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Well, right now, since we've scaled, this year
we're going to open one morestore in Maryland and the idea
would be to complete and buildall the systems that are still
not in place, because eventhough there is 10 or 11
locations, I still considerourselves to be a small company
and there is stillorganizational things that we
(29:04):
want to structure andsignificantly improve.
And then the idea is to grow ata steady pace.
It's hard to say how manystores, because when you're
small, you basically follow morethe opportunity and a lot of
times the opportunity doesn'tcome in screaming, it comes in
whispering.
One of the things, how we wereable to open so many stores is
(29:29):
go for the second generationstores, which we coined the term
, which were, let's say,roganert compatible.
The Roganert compatible meanswe can convert it easily into
our concept and thatsignificantly makes the initial
investment less expensive.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Okay, what kind of square footage like what are you
looking for in terms of newspaces?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
We're looking between 2,000 and 2,500.
Okay, and we operate in everyregion.
We have a central commissarybecause we make our own things,
and that's a little bit of thedifference, because most of the
restaurants you buy items andthen you prepare food.
Here we have a centralcommissary that buys basic
(30:15):
things like flour and yeast andthen you craft and then you
create art out of it.
So I think that was one of thebiggest challenges in Chicago is
training the baking team andbeing able to replicate the
quality that we have.
That is one of the parts of theproject that I'm most satisfied
(30:39):
with.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Nice.
So you're going to have acommissary in every new market.
Get that set up before thefirst location opens.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
That's the idea, okay .
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
However, you know you do commissary in phases.
So the first one is within thefirst store and it can probably
cover three or four stores.
Then you have to scale and thenyou have to determine the next
size of the commissary.
Are you going to be aiming tocover 15 stores or are you going
(31:10):
to go big and ambitious andcreate a commissary that can
cover 50 or 100 stores?
Something tells me it soundslike you're going to go big and
ambitious and create acommissary that can cover 50 or
100 stores.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Something tells me it sounds like you're going to go
big and ambitious.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
There was a twinkle in your eye when you leaned into
that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, I like ambitious, but one step at a
time.
I may not forget to live,because that's an important part
.
Yeah, you do all of this.
All of this, what you do is youdo to be happy and you know to
be satisfied in life.
When you make it your purposeof life, you sort of lose
(31:47):
yourself a little bit.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I love it.
What are you most excited aboutover the next five years?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I'm excited about in business.
I'm excited about the growththat really you know when, when
I think about it.
Yeah, there's going to be, youknow, new markets, there's going
to be new stores, we're goingto be expanding the team.
I like that idea because I amalso personally very involved.
Still a small company, I'mspearheading most of that growth
(32:24):
and advance myself.
I just find enjoyment in it.
I'll probably always be a partof it.
I wouldn't like to beeventually the CEO of my company
, but I would always like to bein that business development and
expansion plans because that'sfor me, that's part of the
happiness.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Love it.
I love it.
Neiman, thank you so much forcoming on and sharing your story
.
Let's, for those new people inthe Starbucks line here, let's
again shout out where yourlocations are so they can go
visit you.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Locations are in Lincoln Park, on Diversea,
corner of Diversea and Broadway,and on Halstead in Boys Town
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So again, neiman Popoff with Rogan Art European
Bakery and Cafe, cannot wait tocome check out the location this
afternoon and take a peekbehind the curtain with you.
Really excited about that,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Awesome.
Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
All right, absolutely .
Thanks for joining us.
Again we're at the NationalRestaurant Association show in
Chicago and we've got a couplemore episodes coming up for you
today.
Thank you so much, everybody,for attending the show and for
listening to us.
For those of you listening athome, if you find this episode
valuable, please share thisepisode and the podcast with
(33:33):
anybody that you know in theindustry that can benefit, and
we'll talk to you soon.
Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast,
the show where restaurantleaders learn tools, tactics and
habits from the world'sgreatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,with Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
(00:29):
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
(00:50):
like to hear about, leadershiplessons you want to learn and
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
.
(01:14):
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All right, hi everybody, we aregoing to get started.
For those of you that are hereat the National Restaurant Show
standing in line at Starbucks,we're going to give you a little
(02:42):
bit of content to listen totoday while you're waiting in
line.
This is the RestaurantLeadership Podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,and I am joined today by Neiman
Popoff from Rogan Art EuropeanBakery and Cafe.
Welcome, neiman.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's great to be here .
Speaker 1 (02:57):
So happy to have you today, thank you.
We have met briefly on LinkedInand had a couple of
conversations over the phone,and now we're here in person,
which is just magical, so reallyappreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Loving it.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Tell us a little bit about Rogan Art and give people
kind of an understanding thatare here of what it's all about,
and then we'll kind of diveinto the story a little bit
about where the brand came from.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is a European bakery, beach-run cafe
headquartered in Maryland, andwe have 10 locations.
It is focusing on freshlycrafted pastries from scratch,
and everything that we do isfrom scratch, made in small
batches throughout the day, sothat we guarantee maximum
freshness and great taste.
And basically, the mission isnot only to delight the
(03:39):
customers, but also to create anexperience that comes to life
for anybody who walks in, andalso to be a part of the
community, to provide content tothe community and for the local
people to have where to meetand hang out and enjoy great
food.
So it's about actuallydiscovering life.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I love that discovering life that's
beautiful.
So you have a very interestingbackground that's not
necessarily rooted in food andbeverage.
How did this concept come to befor you?
Speaker 2 (04:08):
The trouble with trouble is that it starts as fun
.
I was a corporate guy that waslooking for a hobby.
Everybody thinks restaurantsare easy when you're not in the
industry and then you start it,but then you simultaneously fall
in love with it.
It's a strange relationship oflove and hate.
And then I ended up making itmy full-time thing I love it.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And when was that?
What year was that?
That started in 2016, okay, anddid you when you opened your
first one?
Were there some challenges thatyou were?
Did you ever think like I'mmaybe I'm going to walk away
from this?
Or you just knew like this iswhat I want to do for the rest
of my life?
For?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
about, I think, good, three years every.
There was not even a day thatpassed by that I didn't think,
okay, I'm walking away, I reallydidn't need this.
Wow, this is, this is not forme.
Yeah, and that was unfortunate.
I learned or fortunately Ilearned through a lot of
mistakes.
So when I say I have experiencein the industry, the experience
came from me walking throughthe wall headfirst.
(05:10):
So even the first location thatwe opened, the lease that we
signed was bad.
The setup was bad, so manymistakes.
So we ended up actually walkingout of that lease after three
years Wow.
And then opened anotherlocation mistake.
So we ended up actually walkingout of that lease after three
years, wow.
And then open another location.
And then it took good, let'ssay all together, from the first
location four years until weopened the second one.
(05:33):
And opening the second one, thecomplexity of running two
versus running one was, to mysurprise, times five, not not
times two.
And this is when, actually, youknow, the true learning started
happening.
You know how do you actuallybuild a restaurant business?
(05:55):
And I was doing all of thatfrom my.
I was financing the entireexpansion myself and still am.
We do not have any equity orcapital partners in the business
.
And right now it's easier andit's more fun once you scale to
(06:16):
a point that you can puttogether a team that can
actually help you on thatjourney, and then it becomes
more about the team than aboutthe owner.
And the other day I was talkingto somebody and they asked me
so what do you actually do inyour own business?
And a lot of owners say, hey,I'm the visionary, I am Thanks.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
A round of applause for the visionaries out there.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But, you know, I think every owner is actually
the soul of the business, and myjob right now is more taking
care of the people who run thebusiness.
I'm still involved day to day.
However, most of my engagementis market-facing activities.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
When you were going through those first three years
and the challenges were just sopresent for you every single day
, what kept you going?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Perseverance, and I think it's part of the character
, that desire that you have tofind a way to make it work and
just not willing to give up, andthe constant idea there is
thousands and thousands ofpeople who made it work.
I have to make it work.
And this is also when thegrowth and learning process
(07:33):
started.
Being in the corporate worldand actually being quite high up
in the corporate world makesyou a little bit arrogant in
terms of that.
You think you know something,and then becoming an
entrepreneur is a very humblingexperience is when you actually
it makes you a little bitarrogant in terms of that.
You think you know something,and then becoming an
entrepreneur is a very humblingexperience is when you actually
realize how little do you know,and it is almost like equivalent
(07:53):
to relearning how to walk, butat the same time, a rewarding
experience, that rush of joywhen you did something well or
things started picking up.
It is just an incrediblefeeling, and it might not be for
everybody, but for people whoenjoy adventure and for people
(08:15):
who are really driven, who areeager to grow, who work on
themselves, it's the right move.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
How did you develop that perseverance?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I don't know if I did anything in particular to
develop it.
I sort of always had it in me.
I think that that mindset thatyou grow up with and the mindset
, the narrative that you createfor your own self in your head,
is the key element, and that islike the continuous growth is
what you do every day to growyourself.
(08:50):
Growth is what you do every dayto grow yourself.
That's that a little bit Kaizenmentality, because I was always
sort of competing with myselffrom yesterday.
Okay, and if I can be betterthan myself, I never lost a lot
of time comparing myself toothers or envying others or
wanting to be like others.
I just wanted to be a betterversion of myself every day.
And I'm actually still workingon that every day and I think
(09:15):
that learning and that personalgrowth never stops.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Hi everybody.
We're taking a quick break tooffer you an exciting
opportunity.
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leadership skills, I invite youto join my 12-day leadership
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(09:44):
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Slash 12 days.
Now let's get back to the show.
Have you taken that mindset andtranslated it to the business
as well, in terms of thinking onhow we can be better every
single day, every single shift?
(10:04):
Absolutely.
How is that showing up in yourculture today?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
It is showing up with a high level of engagement, and
the idea is to create a teamand to have team members who are
really interested in growingthemselves, because this is what
I think a person that does notwork on their own growth,
they're not going to growanybody else's business.
So you try to surround yourselfwith good people who have
(10:32):
similar mentality and a similarpersonality.
The old famous, you know higherpersonality.
Train the skill and then takegood care of your people.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
How are you identifying those personalities
and that growth mindset duringthe interview process at all of
your locations?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
I think this is actually the toughest part
interview process at all of yourlocations.
I think this is actually thetoughest part.
We've tried with differenttypes of testing, we've tried
with several levels ofinterviews.
It's still.
I can't say that I think that Ihave the recipe of how to get
the right candidate every time.
(11:10):
We still make a mistake almostdaily, daily in now, in the
meantime, in in 10 stores.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Uh, we truly do not have a high turnover of of
people, but still, you know,mistakes are always going to
happen did you know when youstarted robin art that you
wanted to open a certain numberof locations, or are you kind of
just waiting to see whathappens with the business?
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Well, I always had a vision, and the vision is to
actually create a national brand, and the main motivation is not
in the money, it's just againbeing the best version of
yourself and growing andfocusing on being great and
awesome at what you do.
I think success, and everythingthat comes with success, is a
(11:54):
consequence and you cannot workon it.
You can work on your ownpersonal growth and growth of
the business and learning fromyour mistakes, and then you
scale as much as you want toscale.
I'm not putting a cap or abottom to ambition.
I'm a firm believer.
You cap or a bottom to a bishop.
You know, I'm a firm believer.
You either have it or you don't, and as long as you have it,
(12:17):
you just keep on going.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I love that.
I love that.
How are you developing yourselfas a leader today?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
A lot of reading, a lot of learning from other
people.
I.
I think being surrounded bygreat people, from, uh, from
from who you can learn, is veryimportant.
I try to be in interesting room, not necessarily influential
rooms, but interesting roomswhere you meet, uh, great people
who are inspired and who areambitious and who are growing
(12:55):
learning.
That's pretty much it.
And I read a lot of books.
I think I go through five, six,seven books every day because
I'm genuinely interested.
I'm trying to be the bestversion of myself, and that best
version of myself shouldactually pull the entire, all
the team members, to be the bestversion of myself, and that
best version of myself shouldactually pull the entire, all
the team members, to be the bestversions of themselves, which
(13:16):
then pull the business.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
What are you reading right now that you love?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Right now I'm actually reading several books,
so I go through books in phases.
Right now, I'm actually readingFyodor Dostoe.
Right now, I'm actually readingFyodor Dostoevsky.
I'm actually reading BrothersKaramazov, which is just wild
and insane.
That was like a mental breakfrom all the, let's say, CEO
(13:43):
books.
The most recent one that Iactually read was from Bob Iger
about the Disney.
I can't remember.
I think I don't know what it isum.
And the next book that I'mgoing to read is from the owner.
I'm horrible with names yes okay, uh, it's the container store
(14:05):
owner, okay, who wrote a book.
It's about, you know, it'sabout conscious growth of the
company, where he kept it infamily, and that container store
was voted best employer in theUS for many, many years in a row
and the guy is an inspiringleader.
Despite that, I forgot his name.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But it is, and I can't wait to read his book.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I love it.
What does success look like foryou as you grow?
Rogan art.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Success looks like happiness, you know, and I think
it's it's balancing sort ofthree aspects of your life.
You know it's it's it's beingemotionally fulfilled and and
everything that comesemotionally and spiritually.
Number two, being physicallyhappy, being healthy and making
(14:58):
sure that your body that carriesyou and your soul and whoever
you are on the inside is healthy.
And then also beingprofessionally fulfilled and
then also being professionallyfulfilled.
So balancing those three andbeing aware and mindful about
(15:19):
the equilibrium of these threeintelligences however you want
to call it, that sort of residewithin your body that are the
same you but are a little bitdifferent.
Balancing them.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Do you have a recipe to balance those three?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
no, I think that is that that is super individual.
Yeah, you know, it just dependson so many uh things.
So I define the character perperson as a loose confederation
focus on the word confederationof inclinations, habits and
circumstances.
Right, so think about whatdefines you and what defines
(15:55):
that actual balance is actuallythe circumstances that you're in
, your inclinations as mean asas in terms of your nature and,
uh, your habits.
That's why I think, likecreating and working on on great
habits is is one of themandatory things for everybody.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
What are some of the greathabits that you've been able to
build that have helped you besuccessful?
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Discipline, hard work , wisdom, kindness, and that's
pretty much it.
Kindness.
When I say kindness, it'srespectfulness and that's pretty
much it.
Kindness.
When I say kindness, it'srespectfulness, it's gratitude,
it's just trying to be a goodhuman being that is benevolent
(16:42):
to the entire community andeverything that he or she
touches.
Discipline, I think you know it, is the motivation, gets you
started.
Discipline gets you to thatfinish line.
So I think that is when youhave mornings where you don't
feel like going to work oryou're going to be having tough
(17:03):
conversations, that despite that, you push yourself through it.
In the end you are going to besatisfied and happy with
yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
I love it when you were growing from one to 10, and
you just opened number 10,right Are we?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
this week.
Actually, yeah, we just openedup the second store in Chicago
this Saturday.
It was a very soft opening.
Learn it the hard way whenyou're small do not do.
Do not do hard openings, youknow you're in.
It turns into a crisismanagement more than a
celebratory event.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, tell everybody that's standing in line where
the two locations in Chicago is,so they can go check it out.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
The two locations in Chicago.
One is in Lincoln Park onDeversy and the other one is on
Halstead in Boys Town.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Okay, love it.
When you were planning thisexpansion from one to 10, what
was your strategy in terms ofthe leadership team that you
wanted to surround yourself with?
Speaker 2 (17:57):
When you're small, it is tougher because everybody's
looking for good people, smallercompanies.
It's more like recognizing ahidden talent or giving an
opportunity to somebody whomight just have it in them.
What was the most crucial thing?
(18:22):
I think it is trying to lookfor the right personality,
trying to look for the rightteam.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
What does that look like for you?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
For me that looks like defining what type of a
person would I like to have as ateam member and then trying to
on interviews to figure out.
Is that the person that I'mactually looking for?
And just asking from thebehaviors and experiences from
the past, because I think youknow, the behaviors from the
(18:54):
past will impact the behaviorsin the future.
So, basically, how somebody hashandled the past is a good
indicator how they will behaveand what they will do in the
future.
So, asking about things youknow, like when is the last time
when they have set a goal andthat they have achieved it and
what did they do to achieve itRight.
(19:14):
Asking things, okay, last timewhen they have set a goal and
that they have achieved it, andwhat did they do to achieve it
right.
Um, asking things, okay, give mean example when you messed up
and how you handle it.
You know, with that a littlebit of I don't want to say
hidden agenda, but with the ideathat that you want to figure
out how does somebody own theirresponsibility?
How is somebody going to ownthat accountability in the
business?
Because I think accountabilityis one of the most important
(19:38):
parts of the structure in anybusiness, because you usually
get what you tolerate.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, do you feel like you have a strong sense of
understanding and knowing andidentifying when somebody is
actually being honest and openabout those challenges, or when
they haven't, when they've, whenthey've set a goal for
themselves but they haven't metthe goal, or how they've
overcome some challenges intheir life?
Speaker 2 (19:57):
You know, I've missed it so many times that I don't
know if I can brag.
I keep on trying, but it'salways a little bit of a hit and
miss.
It's hard to read people, butit's also hard for anybody to
hide their true personality andwork ethic and everything for an
(20:18):
extended period of time.
I think within three months youwill figure out who is what
type of profile and I think youknow the moment that you realize
, the moment that one of the bigmistakes that I was making is I
was getting too upset with somepeople around me, with my
expectations, and one of thebiggest reliefs in my life came
(20:42):
when I made a simple decisionthat I will either accept that
person the way it is or I willdo something about it.
And every time I got upset andstill, if I get upset at work,
it is you know I'm either goingto do something about it or I'm
going to accept it.
If I'm going to accept it, I'mtruly am going to accept it and
work with it.
And once you have that mentalclarity, I think that that sort
(21:07):
of helps guiding you in yourdecision-making process when it
comes to team selection.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Is there something recently that you've accepted
that has made a positive impactin the business?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yes, I have accepted some of the team members for
what they actually are, and forsome of the team members I've
decided to take some actionagainst it.
And these are, let's say, someof the leadership roles in the
business.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
What were some of those key leadership positions
that you knew that you needed toget from, let's say, one to
five locations?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
It is basically, I think, the organizational
structure and scaling is superimportant.
It's mapping out how the futurelooks like and how you're going
to develop all of thosepositions.
Because it's a small restaurant, you actually do not have the
resources to, you know, identifythe process, plug in and have
(22:14):
the owner of every process, butyou have to have people who wear
many hats, but then you sort ofcreate a map forward.
What do you do?
You know, once business, oractually the operation, scales
to such a point that you have toget on another person and what
the priorities are.
So, for example, for us it wasobviously the store operations
(22:36):
department.
You know, from one personrunning multiple stores for that
person to get some functionalsupport in terms of, let's say,
quality, in terms of service, interms of general services,
because, you know, last year Ihad a feeling that that there
was that we were spending somuch time and just fixing and
(22:58):
troubleshooting items likemaintenance, like roof is
leaking or, you know, like wehave to step up the pest control
.
There is always somethingphysical to be done in the, in
the store.
Yeah, right, so this was thefirst department that we started
staffing with, with, let's say,middle management.
That was the, the operations,and probably the the.
(23:21):
The next one is going to bemarketing Cause I think you know
marketing is such an importantpart of the part of the business
because it's the perceptionthat brings in the customers.
When I opened the first door,panera was almost like across
(23:41):
the street and Panera is anamazing company and everything.
But I thought we are smallartisan.
We have a similar footprint.
It was a smaller Panera.
We have a similar footprint.
We should be outperforming them.
People are going to see Paneraand they're going to see
something new and this is goingto be a nicer ambience.
It's going to be a prettysimilar portfolio to what they
(24:02):
have, but this is just going tobe a little bit better.
It didn't happen.
Panera was times three or timesfour of the sales that we had.
Then you realize what the powerof the brand actually means,
because all the restaurants andall the food places are fighting
for that share of stomach,right, and the share of stomach
(24:23):
comes from the top of mind and Ithink, once you pass a certain
point, there has to be a verystrong focus on marketing.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
So you started in Maryland and then Virginia.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yes, that's the DMV area.
That's like North Virginia, dcand Maryland, it's pretty much
all one area.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
And then, what made you decide to try out Chicago as
the next city?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
The idea was okay.
If you really want to scale,can you build a parallel concept
in a different region and makeit actually work?
Number two Chicago is a foodieplace and it's oversaturated
with competition and you have tobe really good at what you're
doing in order to make it.
(25:09):
Here in Chicago and this was agreat challenge for the
organization Are we really readyand what challenges we are
going to encounter whenexpanding?
And I think it's.
I thought it was better to do itearly on, because if you scale
enough and you make a blunderwhen you're already known, that
(25:31):
hurts much more than making ablunder when you're small and
unknown, because you're forgivenmuch easier.
You know, I think a customerwill forgive a brand that is
just new, or like mom and popshop that just opened.
They're like oh yeah, they'restill working their way up.
You see a big company.
You see a Starbucks open.
They won.
You want it to be like on topof every process.
(25:54):
They got to get it flawlessly.
But small stores they're likehey, like on top of every
process, they got to get itflawlessly, yeah, but small
stores they're like, hey, that'spart of the charm.
That's the concept.
That's a Japanese concept.
It's called wabi-sabi.
It's learning to enjoy theimperfections small
imperfections, right.
Because if you wait forsomething to be perfect, you
know, and if you're just goingto enjoy perfection, you're
never actually going to enjoylife yeah you know and I'm
(26:16):
trying to apply that concept youknow you open a story, you're
going to get it wrong sometimes,but actually the beauty becomes
that imperfection that's risky.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
To go into a market that's so far away, that's so
saturated, that's risky, myfriend extremely how have you
developed the skill of managingrisk in your career?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Cool.
I don't know if I'm managingthe risk or the risk is managing
me, but it's a weirdrelationship between me and risk
.
I view it as adventure and Iwas ready to make mistakes.
I tried to apply all theknowledge and experience to
(27:04):
minimize those mistakes and Itried to learn from all the
mistakes that I've done in thepast and I am very satisfied
with how we launched it inChicago.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, how did the first location do?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
I think it's actually doing pretty well.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Was your team on board like your leadership team
on board with opening in Chicago, or did you get some pushback?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
They all thought that I was nuts yeah, opening in
Chicago.
Thought I was nuts, yeah,opening in Chicago.
But you know, after, everybodywho comes and visits Chicago
falls in love.
Oh it's.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
And then it became a race.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Who is going to be the next one coming to Chicago?
Okay, Right.
So I think team members alsoenjoyed and for the first month
we had three team members fromMaryland here in Chicago making
sure to set it up right.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Awesome, awesome, that's great.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Still made a lot of mistakes, but that's the fun of
it.
Yeah, I think, if you realizethat nobody's perfect, that the
mistakes are going to be there,that you have to enjoy the
process, that it's not about thedestination, it's about about
the destination.
It's it's about you know that's.
That's an eternal question.
You know, a pursuit ofhappiness or the happiness of
(28:22):
the pursuit.
You have two different types ofpersonalities.
I enjoy the pursuit.
I enjoy, I enjoy buildingsomething that is, that is an
adventure.
It is, you know, working in afast paced, environmentpaced
environment and creatingsomething fun and memorable.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
What does the next five years look like for you?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Well, right now, since we've scaled, this year
we're going to open one morestore in Maryland and the idea
would be to complete and buildall the systems that are still
not in place, because eventhough there is 10 or 11
locations, I still considerourselves to be a small company
and there is stillorganizational things that we
(29:04):
want to structure andsignificantly improve.
And then the idea is to grow ata steady pace.
It's hard to say how manystores, because when you're
small, you basically follow morethe opportunity and a lot of
times the opportunity doesn'tcome in screaming, it comes in
whispering.
One of the things, how we wereable to open so many stores is
(29:29):
go for the second generationstores, which we coined the term
, which were, let's say,roganert compatible.
The Roganert compatible meanswe can convert it easily into
our concept and thatsignificantly makes the initial
investment less expensive.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Okay, what kind of square footage like what are you
looking for in terms of newspaces?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
We're looking between 2,000 and 2,500.
Okay, and we operate in everyregion.
We have a central commissarybecause we make our own things,
and that's a little bit of thedifference, because most of the
restaurants you buy items andthen you prepare food.
Here we have a centralcommissary that buys basic
(30:15):
things like flour and yeast andthen you craft and then you
create art out of it.
So I think that was one of thebiggest challenges in Chicago is
training the baking team andbeing able to replicate the
quality that we have.
That is one of the parts of theproject that I'm most satisfied
(30:39):
with.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Nice.
So you're going to have acommissary in every new market.
Get that set up before thefirst location opens.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
That's the idea, okay .
Speaker 1 (30:48):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
However, you know you do commissary in phases.
So the first one is within thefirst store and it can probably
cover three or four stores.
Then you have to scale and thenyou have to determine the next
size of the commissary.
Are you going to be aiming tocover 15 stores or are you going
(31:10):
to go big and ambitious andcreate a commissary that can
cover 50 or 100 stores?
Something tells me it soundslike you're going to go big and
ambitious and create acommissary that can cover 50 or
100 stores.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Something tells me it sounds like you're going to go
big and ambitious.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
There was a twinkle in your eye when you leaned into
that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Yeah, I like ambitious, but one step at a
time.
I may not forget to live,because that's an important part
.
Yeah, you do all of this.
All of this, what you do is youdo to be happy and you know to
be satisfied in life.
When you make it your purposeof life, you sort of lose
(31:47):
yourself a little bit.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
I love it.
What are you most excited aboutover the next five years?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
I'm excited about in business.
I'm excited about the growththat really you know when, when
I think about it.
Yeah, there's going to be, youknow, new markets, there's going
to be new stores, we're goingto be expanding the team.
I like that idea because I amalso personally very involved.
Still a small company, I'mspearheading most of that growth
(32:24):
and advance myself.
I just find enjoyment in it.
I'll probably always be a partof it.
I wouldn't like to beeventually the CEO of my company
, but I would always like to bein that business development and
expansion plans because that'sfor me, that's part of the
happiness.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Love it.
I love it.
Neiman, thank you so much forcoming on and sharing your story
.
Let's, for those new people inthe Starbucks line here, let's
again shout out where yourlocations are so they can go
visit you.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Locations are in Lincoln Park, on Diversea,
corner of Diversea and Broadway,and on Halstead in Boys Town
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So again, neiman Popoff with Rogan Art European
Bakery and Cafe, cannot wait tocome check out the location this
afternoon and take a peekbehind the curtain with you.
Really excited about that,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Awesome.
Thank you for having me here.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
All right, absolutely .
Thanks for joining us.
Again we're at the NationalRestaurant Association show in
Chicago and we've got a couplemore episodes coming up for you
today.
Thank you so much, everybody,for attending the show and for
listening to us.
For those of you listening athome, if you find this episode
valuable, please share thisepisode and the podcast with
(33:33):
anybody that you know in theindustry that can benefit, and
we'll talk to you soon.
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