Send me a Text Message. I'd love to hear from you.
Joe Fontana, founder of Fry the Coop, is redefining what it means to build a fast-casual chicken empire with heart. From his Chicago-based restaurants, Joe shares the unexpected journey that took him from a failed meatball concept to creating what he proudly calls "the number one chicken sandwich in Chicago" – double-fried in beef tallow for that perfect crunch.
What makes this conversation particularly fascinating is Joe's candid discussion of his viral moment. When thieves broke into one of his restaurants causing $3,000 in damage for a mere $9 in change, Joe transformed potential disaster into marketing gold.
His Home Alone-themed response to the break-in generated 27 television appearances and drove record sales – a masterclass in turning lemons into lemonade that any restaurant owner can learn from.
Beyond crisis management, Joe dives deep into the leadership principles that have allowed him to scale to nine locations with plans for 75 more. He articulates the profound loneliness of entrepreneurship and shares how he stays connected to his team's needs while navigating rapid growth.
His refreshingly honest admission about financial management missteps offers a cautionary tale about the importance of diligent invoice tracking and expense management – "expenses are like fingernails, they're always growing and they always need to be cut."
What truly sets this episode apart is Joe's people-first philosophy. Rather than focusing solely on profits, he frames his ambitious growth goals around creating opportunities for his team members.
"We're growing our company so we can grow our people," he explains, detailing how his expansion strategy aims to eventually provide meaningful financial outcomes for everyone involved. This perspective challenges the traditional profit-centric restaurant model and offers a compelling alternative vision for sustainable growth.
Whether you're running a single restaurant location or dreaming of building your own multi-unit concept, this episode delivers actionable insights on leadership, crisis management, operational excellence, and maintaining your values during expansion.
Resources:
P.S. Ready to take your restaurant to the next level? Here are 3 ways I can support you:
- One-on-One Coaching - Work directly with me to tackle your biggest leadership challenges and scale your operations with confidence. Learn more at christinmarvin.com
- Multi-Unit Mastery Book - Get the complete Independent Restaurant Framework that's helped countless owners build thriving multi-location brands. Grab your copy at https://www.IRFbook.com
- Group Coaching & Leadership Workshops - Join other passionate restaurant leaders in transformative group sessions designed to elevate your entire team. Details at christinmarvin.com
Podcast Production: https://www.lconnorvoice.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast,
the show where restaurantleaders learn tools, tactics and
habits from the world'sgreatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,with Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
(00:29):
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
(00:50):
like to hear about, leadershiplessons you want to learn and
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello everybody standing out there in the
Starbucks line and sitting infront of us.
This is the RestaurantLeadership Podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin.
I am joined today by JoeFontana.
Did I say that right?
Yeah, joe Fontana From Fry theCoop.
Very exciting.
So nine locations, correct, allin Chicago.
Yep, okay, give us a little bitof inside scoop about what Fry
(01:36):
the Coop's all about.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So Fry the Coop is a fast, casual chicken sandwich
joint.
We double fry everything at100% beef tallow, Love that, and
we just put a lot of love intowhat we do.
We make sure that we do onething right and that is just
chicken sandwiches, french frieswe have some tenders on the
menu chicken and waffles.
(01:57):
Other than that, we just reallyfocus on delivering happiness
to everyone that comes in ourdoor.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I love it.
So anybody that's listeninghere what's the closest location
to the National RestaurantAssociation?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
show Our closest door is in Westtown, which is
Chicago Avenue in Ashland.
It's about maybe a 15-minutecab ride from here.
Okay, so not far.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Awesome.
So for anybody listening, weare live at the National
Restaurant Association show.
Awesome First time to be ableto be here at the show and
record this Awesome First timeto be able to be here at the
show and record.
This is just epic.
And they've set us up in thisamazing little cube so everybody
can see us.
We're like in this littlefishbowl here recording today,
which is really, really awesome.
So very grateful for your time,joe.
Awesome to just connect withyou and get to know you.
(02:36):
We were connected throughrestaurant technologies so we're
going to head over to your spot.
Dave Chang and I, after this tolot of lunch for the first time
, so I'm super excited.
Yeah, so I'm going to exploreyour approach to leadership and
thought process and how you'vebeen able to overcome some
challenges.
But I want to have some funwith your break-in stories that
(03:00):
I saw on social media and yourhome alone approach to that.
Will you dive into that a?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
little bit for the listeners.
Yeah, this is a crazy story,but it starts with me being
woken up at 3.15 in the morningfrom the Chicago Police
Department calling me dispatch,saying your store's been broken
into.
You need to get downtown rightnow.
And you're just waking up.
I'm so confused.
What's going on?
Your store's broken into, Sir,when can you get there?
I'm like what do you mean?
(03:26):
I can't get there.
They're like the police arewaiting for you, sir, you need
to be there right now.
Like when can you be there?
I'm like, uh, 45 minutes, youknow.
So I'm quickly watching the film.
I see somebody smashes ourfront door, smashes the window.
They smash the vestibule windowto get into the restaurant.
Pop, hop the bar, grab theregister, rip it out of the wall
and run out of there in liketwo minutes.
(03:47):
I mean literally, it was sofast.
They just broke in boom, boom,boom.
What was happening was therewas a spree of break-ins and
these guys were doing that.
They stole the car and theywere just bouncing around, going
to restaurant to restaurant,breaking the window, go in,
steal the cash box.
Clearly they've never worked inthe restaurant business before
or any retail, because nobodykeeps cash in those.
(04:08):
It's like you have your tillwhich is maybe a couple hundred
bucks, but then at the end ofthe night everyone takes the
money out and puts it in thesafe or puts it like under a
drawer.
You know it never stays inthere overnight.
So these guys got away withlike $9 in change right
Meanwhile.
They created $3,000 in damagein like the two minutes that
they did it.
But thankfully I was able towatch the cameras.
(04:29):
I saw they took the cash box.
I remembered I have an extracash box at our office.
So I bolt over to our office at3 in the morning, grab the cash
box, grab a printer, head overto the store Police.
Are there Glasses everywhere?
I mean it was like so bonkers.
So I'm like okay, like you knowwhat happened, I show the cops
the footage.
They leave right away.
(04:50):
They're like great, we've beenhere for an hour and a half like
we're out, so they take off Now.
I'm sitting in our store.
It's four o'clock in themorning in the city, which is
not the best time to be, youknow, exposed.
There's no way to lock thisdoor because the glass is just
completely shattered.
But all of a sudden I see thisguy pull up across the street
and he starts boarding up therestaurant across the street
which, hilariously enough, hasbeen vacant for like a year.
(05:13):
So these knuckleheads brokeinto a vacant pizza place.
Anyways, I run across the street, I go oh my gosh, are you
boarding the store up?
And the guy's like yeah, that'swhat I do.
Amazing.
I was like yeah, that's what Ido.
Amazing, I'm like you board upour store, I'll be over in 15
minutes.
Amazing, I'm like what ishappening right now?
I guess he listens to policescanners.
This happens, unfortunately,all the time, and so he's made a
career of going around.
(05:33):
Anyways, I clean the glass up,I get the whole store ready to
go, put the cash box in.
He comes, helps me board up thestore.
I'm talking which I'm freakingout because I have a busy day
ahead of me.
I had an appointment at eighto'clock.
I had the store boarded up,everything fixed ready to go by
like seven o'clock in themorning.
It's ridiculous.
Yeah, I got in the car headedto my appointment, um and uh,
(05:57):
even he goes.
All right, well, my glass guywill be here about nine, nine,
thirty.
I go, your glass guy goes, yeah, yeah, we'll replace the glass
too.
I was like this never happensin the restaurant business, like
ever right.
Like how did everything justkind of work out.
But okay, so then now I'mdriving to my appointment.
We were doing a IT refresh atone of our stores in Southside.
I'm heading to meet the IT guys.
(06:17):
I get a call from WGN.
They go hey, joe, we heardabout the break-in.
You know, are you still at thestore?
I'm like, no, I left.
You know, I have an appointment.
He goes.
Well, can you just pull overand do like a quick like uh,
zoom on your phone with me.
Okay, sure you know.
So all of a sudden I'm beinginterviewed on wgn on like the
side of the road.
Then all of a sudden my managercalls me.
She goes cbs just called, theywant to talk to you.
(06:37):
What's going on?
Then all of a sudden fox newscalls, then abc calls, then uh,
n NBC calls.
I was like, oh my gosh.
So now my morning turns into medoing interviews on TV.
Then ABC calls back.
They're like hey, we actuallywant to do it in person.
We're going to send a cameracrew over, can you meet us back
at the store?
So I run back over.
Whatever do that.
(06:58):
So I was on TV five times, fiveinterviews that day, right,
crazy?
Well, what I found out?
Our publicist sends us a linkat the end of the week like this
was a crazy media week.
You know, here's all the clips.
There was 27 clips of me on thenews because, like the morning
show, the midday show, the nightshow, and each producer had
like a different spin on it.
(07:19):
So we got shown on the news 27times that week.
Then our social media personmeets up with me.
We start filming videos aboutit.
We show the break in, you know,which got like almost went
viral, just like showing thebreak in on social media.
And then we thought you knowwhat, let's make it like a funny
parody of this.
And she came up with an idea todo like a parent trap and she
(07:40):
keeps talking about like we gotto set up booby traps and I've
never seen Parent Trap before.
But I'm like I'm pretty sureyou're talking about Home Alone.
And she's like alright, yeah,home Alone.
Yeah, same thing, right, we'rejust setting up booby traps.
So we filmed all these hilariouslike oh, if the burglars come
back, like I'm going to set up abowl of coop sauce above the
door, that.
And then we were kind of likefighting about the Home Alone
(08:06):
music or whatever.
I'm like this has to be theHome Alone music.
We put that to the back of thevideo.
Anyways, this thing goes viraland it was bonkers and then even
WGN.
On Friday morning they pickedup on the what's Happening thing
so they started airing oursocial media video.
So this thing went totallyviral for us and we had like
almost a record week that week.
(08:27):
So whoever broke into our place, thank you.
You sold $9.
That was three grand in damagebut probably made us like 30,000
in sales.
So that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
What an extraordinary story.
Way to just grab the bull bythe horns.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I know it's a long story.
I felt like all those pieces,oh no, that's captivating.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
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Speaker 2 (09:45):
So you've got nine locations, yes, and you've got
some big ambitions to grow to 75.
Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Thanks for.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's amazing, big area,audacious goals, did you?
Did you start out saying, ok, Iwant to be multi-unit, I want
to grow to 75.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
So my first concept I came up with was called
Meatball Republic and that was areally one-off restaurant.
I grew up cooking meatballswith my grandma and so I'm
Italian.
It was very, like you know, apassion thing for me to do like
my restaurant dream.
But that concept I reallydidn't think it was scalable.
It was kind of a one location,one specific and I really
(10:24):
thought it was going to bespecial.
When a series of failures ledto us not opening up Meatball
Republic, I fell in love withchicken sandwiches and I pivoted
.
So I started writing a businessplan about chicken sandwiches
and about seven pages into whatI was going to write about maybe
15, 20 pages, seven pages inI'm like, oh, this is a hit.
(10:45):
And the one thing that haddawned on me while writing the
business plan was that it wasscalable.
Like this was like a repeatableconcept.
So the original plan and Ishould say I was living in
California at the time and thereal estate was back here in
Chicago where we grew up so Ihad to sell my wife on, selling
our first house, we had ourfirst baby.
My wife was also pregnant withour second, so we had no plans
(11:06):
on coming back to Chicago.
We were living in Californiafor five years and I had to like
sell her into the idea like,hey, we're going to sell our
first house in a great locationthat we love, and like pull our
kids out of school and basicallygo back to Chicago.
So one of the big componentswas that like I'm not just going
back to Chicago to open up ajob, like I'm going to create a
(11:27):
brand and we're going to scalethis to 15 locations.
So before we even opened, thatwas like my original audacious
goal.
It was like we need to get to15.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
When you were writing that business plan, you were
seven pages in.
What was the thing that gaveyou that moment of insight?
To know that it was a hit,Because chicken's a competitive
space, but yours is verydifferent.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Well, I think I've always noticed trends happening
either in California or New York, and then they kind of make
their way to the Midwest at somepoint.
So I kind of saw what washappening in California and kind
of like I saw this chickensandwich trend before it even
happened.
And so it turns out.
I mean I was betting on it.
But I was right because ofcourse a couple of years later
(12:08):
the chicken sandwich board thingcame out and our business just
went bonkers.
I mean I remember drivingaround Chicago and every
billboard had a chicken sandwichon it.
I was like they're advertisingfor us.
This is amazing, amazing, Ilove that.
But I just saw it coming.
So I kind of knew like okay, ifthis is a hit in California and
LA right now, the lines weredown the road.
I was like in two years fromnow this is going to happen in
(12:31):
Chicago.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So you knew.
I mean it sounds like you kindof embraced the fact that
chicken was already present andbeing kind of marketed and it
was.
It is a little bit of asaturated market, but you leaned
into that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I also was living by anIn-N-Out burger at the time and
so I saw the craze of In-N-Out,both drive-thru lines like
constantly, and I just I was inlove with these chicken
sandwiches but I'm lookingaround and there's nowhere to
get them at.
So that was like there was likea supply and demand thing where
I'm like these are so good andthere's nowhere to get this like
handmade, like beautiful, likereally big chicken sandwich at.
(13:06):
So it was kind of based on theidea of that you can't find it
and like what if we modeled likean In-N-Out burger, that's like
around chicken sandwiches?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I love it.
I was going to ask you if therewere some models out there that
you were kind of looking at andtaking some lessons from.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Oh yeah, and that was like.
The other thing that I noticedin California was the places
that did just one thing really,really well, just like crushed
it.
El Pollo Loco, which is a brandon the West Coast not very
known here, but it started outwith a guy just having chicken
and tortillas.
Like he had rotisserie chickensand just tortillas and some
(13:40):
salsa.
So it was like kind of gettingfood for your family Opened up
at 4 o'clock.
The lines would be like a milelong because once people started
to realize like oh, I couldjust stop by this little shack,
grab a chicken and sometortillas and bam, I got dinner
for the family for the night.
But he just did one thing.
It wasn't like there was thishuge menu, it was literally
(14:00):
there was one option to buy Awhole chicken, came with
tortillas and salsa and that'sit.
So I noticed that happening.
I was like if you just hone inon that one thing, you're going
to crush it.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
What was your leadership structure like in
your first few locations?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You know, I think I really leaned into leading by
example.
So I was the first one to showup, I was the last one to leave.
I was reading a lot of books atthat time and I just knew that,
like you know, I really caredfor our team.
You know, if we had to have ahard conversation like it's not
fun to have hard conversationsbut I just leaned into it and I
(14:40):
was like I'm going to have thesehard conversations regardless
if it's, if it's uncomfortable.
I mean, I've had conversationslike like this we're in a closed
room office or a janitor closet, right, I'm shaking nervous
because it's like hard to tellsomebody bad news about them if
you're firing them or whateverit is.
But I always tried to just notignore those hard conversations
(15:00):
and just accept that that's apart of it and I just got to do
it and actually, to be honest,they get easier.
As you do them, they do geteasier.
So one funny story I read SimonSinek had a book called Great
Leaders Eat Last, and so I readthis book and we've only been
open for a couple months at thistime and so I was like, oh,
(15:21):
this is like amazing.
You know, it was like based onthe military and, like all the
Marines, you know the sergeantsand the leadership, they don't,
they wait to eat.
So everyone comes in the messhall, all their teammates, and
then, you know, once they'redone, then the leaders get to
eat.
So one day we're I'm workingall day famished, haven't eaten
anything, not one bite of food.
It's 10 o'clock at night.
We had a huge busy day.
(15:41):
Like everyone's exhausted,we're working hard to clean.
I said you know what I'm buyingeverybody pizza today.
You know, secretly, I'm like,also like selfishly, like hungry
, you know.
So I want pizza too.
Anyways, I order some pizzas,we throw them in the back and no
one's touching them.
I'm like, guys, there's pizza,you know.
So I want pizza too.
Anyways, I order some pizzas,we throw them in the back and no
one's touching them.
I'm like, guys, there's pizza,you know.
They're like, oh yeah, well,we're done, we'll clean them up
or whatever.
But I'm starting to get likewoozy because like I'm um, I'm
(16:04):
famished, because I've beenworking literally since six
o'clock in the morning, it's 10at night, haven't eaten at all.
I'm like lightheaded.
We're cleaning, cleaning,cleaning, cleaning.
No one's touching the pizza.
I'm like guys, eat, eat, eat.
We'll do it later.
Okay, finally, I'm like I guessI just have to eat.
I'm going to pass out, and soI'm eating.
And as I'm eating it, I'm justlike I'm such a bad leader.
I mean, first, I'm such a badleader, Simon.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Sinek would be so disappointed in me.
That's great.
I love it.
What is it about yourleadership that has made Friday
Coupe so successful?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I would say just authentically caring for our
people, you know, and you justhave to be there for them.
And kind of going back to thenegative side of that, like I
truly believe even when you firesomebody, like you might be
doing them a favor.
They might be complacent andthey're staying at the job and
if it's not a good fit for themor for us or vice versa,
(17:01):
whatever it is like it'sprobably not great for them,
just specifically, which otherway it's not good for.
But I always think likesometimes, like pushing people
out is like you sit down withthem and you explain like hey, I
know this like sounds bad today.
People out is like you sit downwith them.
You explain like hey, I knowthis like sounds bad today, but
you never know what's around thecorner for you.
So like I know I'm pushing youout right now, but you don't
know like this might lead tosomething around the corner that
(17:23):
you can't see right now that'sgoing to be great for you.
So I always like try toencourage people, even in the
bad times or the good times, andI think that's what a true
leader will do.
Is just kind of like go throughthose authentic like moments
with people, whether they'regood or bad.
So that's been, I think, a goodpart of it.
I will say now, like we're aboutto open our 10th store.
(17:45):
I'm working on our 11th.
We start construction in likesix weeks.
On that, we're also building acommissary behind that 11th
store.
So I've been so busy in theminutia of building stores and
whatever.
I kind of feel like I've been abad leader because I'm so busy
with like the day-to-day I'm notable to like step back right at
this moment this season andlike have those like really
(18:09):
authentic moments.
I will say I'm very lucky thatwe have a director of operations
who's awesome and he's beenmaking sure everyone's birthdays
are, like you know, on thecalendar.
So when someone has a birthday,even if it's as simple as like
getting the team to all sayhappy birthday, writing a card,
everyone signs it and like justbeing like top of mind of our
(18:31):
teams, like you know moments intheir lives personally, so we're
like acknowledging them andstuff like that.
But I think it's a big part oflike any culture, or at least
our culture, to be a good leaderit's so hard to stay connected
to all aspects of operations andpeople when you grow.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
How do you have any like secret recipes or any any
recipes for success on how to dothat, or is it something that
you're still trying to kind offigure out?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I think we're still trying to figure it out To me.
As you grow and you get to hirepeople, you kind of like take a
piece of your job.
Like I used to pay all theinvoices.
Even up until about two yearsago, we had seven locations.
I was still like sitting downand not doing a good job at it,
by the way, but I would like tryto get our accounts payable,
like take care of.
Maybe it was three years agonow, but now we have an accounts
(19:18):
payable person.
I don't pay invoices anymore,which is amazing.
So like I think it's nice, asyou scale and grow, you kind of
get people to like take overthose jobs, and I hope that one
day I can get to a level, maybein the next couple of years,
where my only job as the leaderis to like really think about
our people, care for our people.
(19:38):
I sat down with the CEO and gotsome advice way before I started
the business and I was justlike what does a CEO do?
Like what do you do, you know?
And he was like well, it's notmy job to do anyone's job.
He's like it's my job to helpeveryone accomplish their job
and support them.
And so I was like huh, that'spretty interesting, and so I
think my goal is still to getthere.
(20:00):
I'm still doing like fourdifferent jobs right now, but
I'm hoping that one day we builda team I can set the tone, like
I call myself the chief cultureofficer, because I feel like if
I can set the culture, set thetone, and then like those people
just thrive, that are betterthan me at whatever one specific
job they're doing, and then Ican get to a point where I'm
like, hey, like my job now is tojust care for our people, you
(20:23):
know, keep them front of mind.
What are they going through?
How can I support them?
How can I help them?
But you're right, it's so hardwhen you're growing.
Yeah, four, four million thingson the task list.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
So yeah, and you can feel like you're losing control.
Yeah, yeah, it's difficult.
It's also the more that youwell, just being an entrepreneur
is lonely.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It definitely is lonely.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
How are you kind of investing in your own
development and combating thatloneliness?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I try to carve out some time for myself.
Like I started going to the gymthis year, which has been
really helpful.
I found an amazing gym.
But while I'm there, I like tryto pick people's brains.
I still talk to them Like I'llsee an old man in the hot tub
and I'll be like, hey, what wasyour career?
You know I owned a business.
You did really tell me about it.
You know, also, too, I in a lotof uh groups with people that
(21:16):
I've like built up relationshipsover the years so if I'm ever
feeling like really like on anisland by myself, I can call
people and talk to them about it.
I have a ton of friends thatare business owners so we kind
of chat back and forth about,you know, some of their
struggles and some of mystruggles and, um, it's good to
get stuff off your chest.
You know, when you're goingthrough stuff.
There's a couple groups andthat's another thing that I'm
(21:37):
like bummed about not havingtime right now because like
there's a group called EO thatI've been really entrepreneurs
organization, I think it'scalled but I learned like that
people say it's like a gamechanger.
They're like you need to dothis, like it helps, like you
know, kind of bring a bunch oflike business owners together
and you can, you know, help eachother.
(21:57):
Like all ships rise with thetide, kind of thing.
So, but going back to growing,it's so hard to carve out time
for my family because I don'twant to miss their childhood by
like getting bogged down withworking so much.
Yeah, so it's um, it's a thingtoo Um and uh, you know, it's
(22:20):
really kind of you can't.
There's certain things youcan't complain about or talk
about with your team, because,like owning a business is to me,
it's like having a baby.
You know, you can read a bunchof books about it, you can talk
to people about it, learn, watchYouTube videos, but there's no
reality until you have a baby inyour hand.
So it's like complaining ortalking with someone who doesn't
(22:40):
have kids.
When you have kids, about kids,they can never comprehend what
that's like unless they havetheir own children.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You're talking to somebody that doesn't have
children.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I can't relate I empathize I want to.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I totally get that.
I can't relate.
Yeah, I empathize.
I want to.
Yeah, I totally get that.
What's the biggest challengethat you've run into in this
growth phase that you're in?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
So one of the things that I was telling you I've
listened to thousands ofpodcasts, and not only just like
podcasts of like businessowners, like specific niche
restaurant podcasts.
I've never heard anyone talkabout this before.
Yeah, after like 1,500 podcasts, I was like how is this
possible?
But basically the biggest thingthat I screwed up is I never
collected all the sourcedocuments for invoices, receipts
(23:28):
.
We just trusted our vendors andset them up on autopay.
In the beginning I mean, it waslike bonkers.
I was like, oh just, we'll goon autopay, you just deduct the
money out of our bank account,no problem.
And the invoice says, oh, Idon't need the invoice.
If there's ever a problem, I'llwork it out.
And we hired a bookkeeperBecause I think the three key
(23:48):
things that you need is greatservice, great food or great
product and then great finances.
If you don't have those threethings in any business, you're
not going to make it.
So the finance part I thoughtby hiring a bookkeeper, like
well, that's taken care of.
Like we got the bookkeeper,like she's doing it.
Well, I learned that ourbookkeeper was just basically
going off the bank account andthen she was just guessing like
(24:10):
what everything was.
There wasn't like a veryspecific and if you think about
like an invoice, it might havelike disposals on it, it might
have food, it might havechemicals.
So even though, like, you'vegot this one invoice and it
comes across, as you know, maybea $5,000 payable, like you
don't know what's in there.
So I think that was a hugemistake and going from we got
(24:34):
away with it, going from one tofive restaurants, no problem.
But then going from five to ten,it has turned out to be like a
huge ball to untangle.
And going from five to ten, ithas turned out to be like a huge
ball to untangle.
And so we've had to really,like, go back to step one,
collect all invoices, allreceipts, make sure that each
(24:56):
line item is GL correctly,general ledger to our finances,
like 100%.
So now we know specifically,like, down to the minutiae, like
was that repair a buildingrepair?
Was it equipment repair?
Was it a preventive maintenance?
Was itiae like?
Was that repair a buildingrepair?
Was it equipment repair?
Was it a preventive maintenance?
Was it?
You know like, but we know veryspecific now and we're still
improving on that, but like thatwas a huge thing.
I wish I could go back and justtell myself like collect all
the invoices.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it seems like it's the way you described.
It is really, really simple,but it doesn't give you the
visibility over every singlewhere every single dollar is
going.
Oh yeah, what were some of theaha moments that you had when
you switched everything over andyou started to really have that
visibility over each line item?
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Well, I think you just kind of understand your
expenses a little bit and I'velearned I love this phrase
expenses are like fingernails,they're always growing and they
always got to be cut.
And that is so true.
Whatever business you're in,even at your house, your
expenses just always keep goingup.
You know how did it get likethis, you know?
So you have to dive into thedetails and say, oh, okay, wow,
(25:52):
we're spending this much on this, we're spending this much on
that.
So I think, knowing specificallywhere your expenses are and
like kind of like looking atthem, you're like wow, we spent
$90,000 on preventativemaintenance.
Well, now, maybe I can hire apreventative maintenance person,
maybe for 65K, give them a$10,000 bonus and they do all
preventative maintenance.
I just saved 10 grand a year.
You do that enough and youstart, you know, finding those
(26:15):
little pennies and nickels onthe ground.
You know that can add up to aprofitable business one day.
So I think that's the key.
Like aha, like, oh, like, I canreally hone in on the, you know
, and everyone should go throughtheir P&L with a fine tooth
comb Cause, like I said, thosenails are always growing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I've never heard that before.
I love that.
So what made you decide tochange your strategy, your
growth strategy, and go from 15to 75?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
That's a great question.
So I kind of realized, onerestaurant, two restaurants, 10
restaurants, you know like how,how, whatever you set, your
audacious goals are, whateverthat ceiling is like, you can
only grow into that ceiling.
So when I kind of realized like15, I'm like, well, what would
our business look like at 15stores?
And then I kind of was like, oh, like we actually need to have
(27:02):
more EBITDA than that.
And so one of the things thatreally honed it in was I was
like I found out, if you want tobring a company public, the
magic number is really around 25million EBITDA.
So I was like, okay, 25 millionEBITDA, you don't have to be
that number to go public, butthat is like a very key marker.
When you have 25 million atEBITDA, you have a line of
(27:25):
investors, private equity,people that want to take your
company public.
There's just you createopportunity at that point.
And then I looked at a verybrand I love a lot called
Potbelly.
They started in Chicago.
I was like, how many storesdoes Potbelly have?
I looked around Chicago theyhave 80 locations.
But it's not like a Starbuckseffect where you would like you
(27:46):
can stand in one place and seelike four Starbucks in one block
.
You know they're not likebumping into each other.
So I thought, okay, and then Istarted working backwards.
Like, okay, how do we get to 25million EBITDA?
We would need 75 locations todo $2 million a year.
That gives us $150 million inrevenue.
And then, if we can be 15%profitable, boom, I got to my
(28:07):
$25 million in EBITDA.
So that's when I was kind ofjust looking backwards and I was
like, oh, we can open up andour market in Chicago is so
great because it's huge, we have9 million people here, there's
300-plus neighborhoods.
So I started thinking, thinking, well, this is a very
accomplishable goal.
Like if we can have 75 storesin chicago and hit those numbers
(28:28):
, like now, we've created thisgreat opportunity for our people
.
And me too, I'm included, I'mpeople in the business right.
So we've kind of moved a littlebit of our purpose to we're
growing our company so we cangrow our people.
And if we accomplish that goal,I think we can either have an
exit for our people, we can setup retirements for our people.
There's just a lot moreopportunity to care for our team
(28:48):
.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I love that.
Love the emphasis on people.
It's, it's simple, it's you.
You think it's common sense,but there's so many people that
do that.
Just don't prioritize theirteams.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Well, you don't do it by yourself and I always
thought like no-transcript, no,we're in this together and if we
(29:29):
can rise up together like Iwant, to cash everybody out, I
love it Amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
That's great.
What is the single biggestthing that you need in order to
create sustainable growth as youget to 75?
I need cash.
To create sustainable growth asyou get to 75?
I need cash.
Besides cash, can I borrow $30million?
Any chance you got that in yourbag over here.
I love that you think that Icould come up with something
like that, but no, I can't helpyou, I think.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Well, obviously, funding it properly, you really
have to do a balance betweendebt and revenue and
profitability, and if the scaletips too much, you know you can
get yourself into trouble.
I also think standard operatingprocedures are now our best
friend.
I'm Joe SOP Fontana, nice, tomeet you.
(30:15):
It is literally so key in thepoint of making sure that
everything's written down.
The operations is lock stockand smoking barrels, cause I
could give you the Bible tofight a coup.
Right now.
I can give you everything, allthe recipes, the location,
everything like write everythingdown, and that is only like 5%
of it.
(30:36):
Operations is everything, almostlike military precision and
operations, and so I think, asyou scale, you have to take that
very seriously.
You need people in place thatare doing a very specific job.
That's very like thought out.
The SOPs are in place, thetrainings, the you know
(30:56):
everything that goes aroundrunning a very operationally
tight ship.
There is places that have awfulfood.
We're not going to name thembecause people are up there
listening but there is placesthat we all know of the food is
awful, but guess what?
They're crushing it.
And why?
Because they have greatoperations and they're reliable
(31:17):
and it's there every day and youknow when it opens, you know
what they do, you know what toexpect.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But I think, think, like, if we can do great food
and great operations like sokiller.
It makes me so happy to hearyou say that I coach independent
multi-unit owners and it's sobecause of cash flow and just
the way that the industry isstructured.
Most of them start by doingeverything on their own.
They are the bookkeeper, theyare the marketing person, they
are the HR component, they arethe chef, they are the
(31:50):
maintenance person and they'vegot everything up in their head,
it's all in their mind and it'sso difficult as you grow to A,
let go of that control and B,transfer all of that knowledge,
all that institutional knowledgethat you have, and get it done
on paper and take the time tobuild the systems and train the
systems and then continue totweak the systems.
(32:11):
But it is the most importantthing and it gives you freedom
as an owner.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's so important Consistency and also to like I
think, to me too this feelsoverwhelming to write everything
down.
We're almost getting to thepoint where we might hire an
operations person and that's allthey do is just come up with
those SOPs, write it down.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I mean we have a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, but like really just lean into that more.
And it doesn't even have to belike a full-time thing.
You can hire somebody for ninemonths who does that, and then I
don't know if it's letting themgo or like a consultant type
thing.
Maybe it's just a front.
Hey, for the next six to ninemonths.
Like I need you to come inevery day, write all this stuff
down, yeah for us, and then youknow, then you're kind of like
at least have a foundation ofthe sop.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
They're always growing and changing always um,
I'll give, I'll tell you asecret that I do so when I when
I work with clients, becauseyou're using AI a little bit in
your business, right?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, a little bit yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I use it for every aspect of my business, but when
I work with clients and theywant an SOP, we just discuss
over the meeting exactly whatthey want to see out of those
SOPs.
It can be server training Ithink I know where you're going
with this and then the AImeeting notes, just turns it
into an SOP immediately thatthey can then take to their
teams and start putting in tests.
Oh, I love that and roll it.
So it's very easy, very simpleto get those things.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I heard about something, too, where you can
actually have the meetingrecorded.
Yes, and then it'll summarizethe meeting afterwards.
Yep, that's it.
That's what you're talkingabout AI meeting notes Yep it's
a game changer Wow.
You can record phoneconversations now on your iPhone
(33:47):
if you you're traveling orwhatever, and then, same thing,
you can throw the transcript inand have it generate something
for you.
We're always talking aboutoperations.
Like our team, we're constantlygoing back about this and what
needs to be done, and that's abrilliant idea.
I love that capture it all andjust have it do the work for you
.
I just thought about hiringsomeone to do that yeah, ai is
very, very powerful.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It's a really it a.
It's a really great personalassistant for anybody in
business these days.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
So you have a software or like a one.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I use.
I've tried a few different ones.
I've used Otter a little bit,but my favorite right now is
super normal and it connectswith Google meet and zoom.
And there's so many of them outthere.
A lot of them have freeversions and they're very, very
easy to use and they're 100%.
Most of them are 100% accurate,which is really, really cool.
And you know how it is.
It's like with AI garbage in,garbage out, so it's going to
(34:30):
spit you out something a littlebit vanilla and then you just
continue to tweak and tweak,which is really fun.
But you can test it in onelocation and then get it exactly
where you want it to and whereyou want it to be, and then you
can roll it at all the otherlocations.
It's pretty awesome.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Super normal is funny because that's the opposite of
anyone in the restaurantbusiness.
So here we go with our own one.
We call it super weird.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I love it.
I love it.
That's great.
What are you most excited aboutin the next five years?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Oh, I cannot wait to hire like seven more people on
our team that can just kind oftrain and like right now, for
example, I'm the marketer, weonly have us.
I have a social media person,but they're an outside
contractor.
We have a publicist they're anoutside contractor, but the
marketing is on me.
I spend about 10 minutes a weekon marketing.
(35:17):
So to me that kind of breaks myheart because, like I know we
could be doing way better andway more if somebody was able to
focus on that 40, 50 hours aweek.
So, that being one example, Iwould love to hire a marketer.
I need a facility manager, weneed just operations people.
I need a trainer.
So in the next couple of years,as we scale the business, I'm
(35:37):
really looking forward toboosting up our team so we can
excel in these.
That, like I would love to justbe doing way better in than
we're doing right now.
Yeah, and so that to me likegets me like excited because I'm
like we could be doing so muchbetter.
We just need someone that likedoes this full time.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, I'm excited for those people to free up your
time too, to be able to spendtime with your family.
Continue developing yourselfand be that chief culture
officer.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
I am the hardest working, laziest person you've
ever met, Like I'm working sohard so I could eventually do
nothing.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I love it.
That's great, that's good.
Well, thank you so much, joe,for coming on the show, really
inspired by your story, loveyour commitment to people, know
you're working your ass off andit's paying off.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
So congratulations, and I think I benefited here
from your little tip.
Here we're going to, we'regoing to be.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I got some more after we get done here, so I love it.
I can't wait to come check outyour spot here in just a couple
hours.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Chicken sandwich number one chicken sandwich in
Chicago, double fried and beeftallow handmade.
Every bite of it is crunchy,salty, savory, handmade.
And every bite of it is crunchy, salty, savory, spicy, sweet,
all at the same time, and youare going to love it my mouth is
watering amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Thank you so much.
Thank you awesome.
All right, everybody that'sgoing to do it for us on the
restaurant leadership podcast,share this episode and show with
anybody that you know in therestaurant that could benefit
and, if you have anyavailability, vote, or you know
anybody for the positions thatjoe's looking for.
We're staring at this big groupout of people.
You let them.
Somebody's raising their handalready you got your first hire,
(37:07):
I love.
It Awesome everybody.
We'll talk to you soon.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Restaurant Leadership Podcast,
the show where restaurantleaders learn tools, tactics and
habits from the world'sgreatest operators.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin,with Solutions by Kristen.
I've spent the last two decadesin the restaurant industry and
now partner with restaurantowners to develop their leaders
(00:29):
and scale their businessesthrough powerful one-on-one
coaching, group coaching andleadership workshops.
This show is complete withepisodes around coaching,
leadership development andinterviews with powerful
industry leaders.
You can now engage with me onthe show and share topics you'd
(00:50):
like to hear about, leadershiplessons you want to learn and
any feedback you have.
Simply click the link at thetop of the show notes and I will
give you a shout out on afuture episode.
Thanks so much for listeningand I look forward to connecting
.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Hello everybody standing out there in the
Starbucks line and sitting infront of us.
This is the RestaurantLeadership Podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Marvin.
I am joined today by JoeFontana.
Did I say that right?
Yeah, joe Fontana From Fry theCoop.
Very exciting.
So nine locations, correct, allin Chicago.
Yep, okay, give us a little bitof inside scoop about what Fry
(01:36):
the Coop's all about.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
So Fry the Coop is a fast, casual chicken sandwich
joint.
We double fry everything at100% beef tallow, Love that, and
we just put a lot of love intowhat we do.
We make sure that we do onething right and that is just
chicken sandwiches, french frieswe have some tenders on the
menu chicken and waffles.
(01:57):
Other than that, we just reallyfocus on delivering happiness
to everyone that comes in ourdoor.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I love it.
So anybody that's listeninghere what's the closest location
to the National RestaurantAssociation?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
show Our closest door is in Westtown, which is
Chicago Avenue in Ashland.
It's about maybe a 15-minutecab ride from here.
Okay, so not far.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Awesome.
So for anybody listening, weare live at the National
Restaurant Association show.
Awesome First time to be ableto be here at the show and
record this Awesome First timeto be able to be here at the
show and record.
This is just epic.
And they've set us up in thisamazing little cube so everybody
can see us.
We're like in this littlefishbowl here recording today,
which is really, really awesome.
So very grateful for your time,joe.
Awesome to just connect withyou and get to know you.
(02:36):
We were connected throughrestaurant technologies so we're
going to head over to your spot.
Dave Chang and I, after this tolot of lunch for the first time
, so I'm super excited.
Yeah, so I'm going to exploreyour approach to leadership and
thought process and how you'vebeen able to overcome some
challenges.
But I want to have some funwith your break-in stories that
(03:00):
I saw on social media and yourhome alone approach to that.
Will you dive into that a?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
little bit for the listeners.
Yeah, this is a crazy story,but it starts with me being
woken up at 3.15 in the morningfrom the Chicago Police
Department calling me dispatch,saying your store's been broken
into.
You need to get downtown rightnow.
And you're just waking up.
I'm so confused.
What's going on?
Your store's broken into, Sir,when can you get there?
I'm like what do you mean?
(03:26):
I can't get there.
They're like the police arewaiting for you, sir, you need
to be there right now.
Like when can you be there?
I'm like, uh, 45 minutes, youknow.
So I'm quickly watching the film.
I see somebody smashes ourfront door, smashes the window.
They smash the vestibule windowto get into the restaurant.
Pop, hop the bar, grab theregister, rip it out of the wall
and run out of there in liketwo minutes.
(03:47):
I mean literally, it was sofast.
They just broke in boom, boom,boom.
What was happening was therewas a spree of break-ins and
these guys were doing that.
They stole the car and theywere just bouncing around, going
to restaurant to restaurant,breaking the window, go in,
steal the cash box.
Clearly they've never worked inthe restaurant business before
or any retail, because nobodykeeps cash in those.
(04:08):
It's like you have your tillwhich is maybe a couple hundred
bucks, but then at the end ofthe night everyone takes the
money out and puts it in thesafe or puts it like under a
drawer.
You know it never stays inthere overnight.
So these guys got away withlike $9 in change right
Meanwhile.
They created $3,000 in damagein like the two minutes that
they did it.
But thankfully I was able towatch the cameras.
(04:29):
I saw they took the cash box.
I remembered I have an extracash box at our office.
So I bolt over to our office at3 in the morning, grab the cash
box, grab a printer, head overto the store Police.
Are there Glasses everywhere?
I mean it was like so bonkers.
So I'm like okay, like you knowwhat happened, I show the cops
the footage.
They leave right away.
(04:50):
They're like great, we've beenhere for an hour and a half like
we're out, so they take off Now.
I'm sitting in our store.
It's four o'clock in themorning in the city, which is
not the best time to be, youknow, exposed.
There's no way to lock thisdoor because the glass is just
completely shattered.
But all of a sudden I see thisguy pull up across the street
and he starts boarding up therestaurant across the street
which, hilariously enough, hasbeen vacant for like a year.
(05:13):
So these knuckleheads brokeinto a vacant pizza place.
Anyways, I run across the street, I go oh my gosh, are you
boarding the store up?
And the guy's like yeah, that'swhat I do.
Amazing.
I was like yeah, that's what Ido.
Amazing, I'm like you board upour store, I'll be over in 15
minutes.
Amazing, I'm like what ishappening right now?
I guess he listens to policescanners.
This happens, unfortunately,all the time, and so he's made a
career of going around.
(05:33):
Anyways, I clean the glass up,I get the whole store ready to
go, put the cash box in.
He comes, helps me board up thestore.
I'm talking which I'm freakingout because I have a busy day
ahead of me.
I had an appointment at eighto'clock.
I had the store boarded up,everything fixed ready to go by
like seven o'clock in themorning.
It's ridiculous.
Yeah, I got in the car headedto my appointment, um and uh,
(05:57):
even he goes.
All right, well, my glass guywill be here about nine, nine,
thirty.
I go, your glass guy goes, yeah, yeah, we'll replace the glass
too.
I was like this never happensin the restaurant business, like
ever right.
Like how did everything justkind of work out.
But okay, so then now I'mdriving to my appointment.
We were doing a IT refresh atone of our stores in Southside.
I'm heading to meet the IT guys.
(06:17):
I get a call from WGN.
They go hey, joe, we heardabout the break-in.
You know, are you still at thestore?
I'm like, no, I left.
You know, I have an appointment.
He goes.
Well, can you just pull overand do like a quick like uh,
zoom on your phone with me.
Okay, sure you know.
So all of a sudden I'm beinginterviewed on wgn on like the
side of the road.
Then all of a sudden my managercalls me.
She goes cbs just called, theywant to talk to you.
(06:37):
What's going on?
Then all of a sudden fox newscalls, then abc calls, then uh,
n NBC calls.
I was like, oh my gosh.
So now my morning turns into medoing interviews on TV.
Then ABC calls back.
They're like hey, we actuallywant to do it in person.
We're going to send a cameracrew over, can you meet us back
at the store?
So I run back over.
Whatever do that.
(06:58):
So I was on TV five times, fiveinterviews that day, right,
crazy?
Well, what I found out?
Our publicist sends us a linkat the end of the week like this
was a crazy media week.
You know, here's all the clips.
There was 27 clips of me on thenews because, like the morning
show, the midday show, the nightshow, and each producer had
like a different spin on it.
(07:19):
So we got shown on the news 27times that week.
Then our social media personmeets up with me.
We start filming videos aboutit.
We show the break in, you know,which got like almost went
viral, just like showing thebreak in on social media.
And then we thought you knowwhat, let's make it like a funny
parody of this.
And she came up with an idea todo like a parent trap and she
(07:40):
keeps talking about like we gotto set up booby traps and I've
never seen Parent Trap before.
But I'm like I'm pretty sureyou're talking about Home Alone.
And she's like alright, yeah,home Alone.
Yeah, same thing, right, we'rejust setting up booby traps.
So we filmed all these hilariouslike oh, if the burglars come
back, like I'm going to set up abowl of coop sauce above the
door, that.
And then we were kind of likefighting about the Home Alone
(08:06):
music or whatever.
I'm like this has to be theHome Alone music.
We put that to the back of thevideo.
Anyways, this thing goes viraland it was bonkers and then even
WGN.
On Friday morning they pickedup on the what's Happening thing
so they started airing oursocial media video.
So this thing went totallyviral for us and we had like
almost a record week that week.
(08:27):
So whoever broke into our place, thank you.
You sold $9.
That was three grand in damagebut probably made us like 30,000
in sales.
So that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
What an extraordinary story.
Way to just grab the bull bythe horns.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I know it's a long story.
I felt like all those pieces,oh no, that's captivating.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
All right, everybody, listen up.
I've got big news my new book,multi-unit Mastery, officially
launched today, and I'm doingsomething I've never done before
.
If you visit IRFbookcom withinthe next 24 hours of hearing
this message, you're getting theentire book absolutely free.
Not a discount, not a trialcompletely free.
(09:09):
This book contains the exactindependent restaurant framework
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Speaker 2 (09:45):
So you've got nine locations, yes, and you've got
some big ambitions to grow to 75.
Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Thanks for.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's amazing, big area,audacious goals, did you?
Did you start out saying, ok, Iwant to be multi-unit, I want
to grow to 75.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
So my first concept I came up with was called
Meatball Republic and that was areally one-off restaurant.
I grew up cooking meatballswith my grandma and so I'm
Italian.
It was very, like you know, apassion thing for me to do like
my restaurant dream.
But that concept I reallydidn't think it was scalable.
It was kind of a one location,one specific and I really
(10:24):
thought it was going to bespecial.
When a series of failures ledto us not opening up Meatball
Republic, I fell in love withchicken sandwiches and I pivoted
.
So I started writing a businessplan about chicken sandwiches
and about seven pages into whatI was going to write about maybe
15, 20 pages, seven pages inI'm like, oh, this is a hit.
(10:45):
And the one thing that haddawned on me while writing the
business plan was that it wasscalable.
Like this was like a repeatableconcept.
So the original plan and Ishould say I was living in
California at the time and thereal estate was back here in
Chicago where we grew up so Ihad to sell my wife on, selling
our first house, we had ourfirst baby.
My wife was also pregnant withour second, so we had no plans
(11:06):
on coming back to Chicago.
We were living in Californiafor five years and I had to like
sell her into the idea like,hey, we're going to sell our
first house in a great locationthat we love, and like pull our
kids out of school and basicallygo back to Chicago.
So one of the big componentswas that like I'm not just going
back to Chicago to open up ajob, like I'm going to create a
(11:27):
brand and we're going to scalethis to 15 locations.
So before we even opened, thatwas like my original audacious
goal.
It was like we need to get to15.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
When you were writing that business plan, you were
seven pages in.
What was the thing that gaveyou that moment of insight?
To know that it was a hit,Because chicken's a competitive
space, but yours is verydifferent.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Well, I think I've always noticed trends happening
either in California or New York, and then they kind of make
their way to the Midwest at somepoint.
So I kind of saw what washappening in California and kind
of like I saw this chickensandwich trend before it even
happened.
And so it turns out.
I mean I was betting on it.
But I was right because ofcourse a couple of years later
(12:08):
the chicken sandwich board thingcame out and our business just
went bonkers.
I mean I remember drivingaround Chicago and every
billboard had a chicken sandwichon it.
I was like they're advertisingfor us.
This is amazing, amazing, Ilove that.
But I just saw it coming.
So I kind of knew like okay, ifthis is a hit in California and
LA right now, the lines weredown the road.
I was like in two years fromnow this is going to happen in
(12:31):
Chicago.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So you knew.
I mean it sounds like you kindof embraced the fact that
chicken was already present andbeing kind of marketed and it
was.
It is a little bit of asaturated market, but you leaned
into that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I also was living by anIn-N-Out burger at the time and
so I saw the craze of In-N-Out,both drive-thru lines like
constantly, and I just I was inlove with these chicken
sandwiches but I'm lookingaround and there's nowhere to
get them at.
So that was like there was likea supply and demand thing where
I'm like these are so good andthere's nowhere to get this like
handmade, like beautiful, likereally big chicken sandwich at.
(13:06):
So it was kind of based on theidea of that you can't find it
and like what if we modeled likean In-N-Out burger, that's like
around chicken sandwiches?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I love it.
I was going to ask you if therewere some models out there that
you were kind of looking at andtaking some lessons from.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Oh yeah, and that was like.
The other thing that I noticedin California was the places
that did just one thing really,really well, just like crushed
it.
El Pollo Loco, which is a brandon the West Coast not very
known here, but it started outwith a guy just having chicken
and tortillas.
Like he had rotisserie chickensand just tortillas and some
(13:40):
salsa.
So it was like kind of gettingfood for your family Opened up
at 4 o'clock.
The lines would be like a milelong because once people started
to realize like oh, I couldjust stop by this little shack,
grab a chicken and sometortillas and bam, I got dinner
for the family for the night.
But he just did one thing.
It wasn't like there was thishuge menu, it was literally
(14:00):
there was one option to buy Awhole chicken, came with
tortillas and salsa and that'sit.
So I noticed that happening.
I was like if you just hone inon that one thing, you're going
to crush it.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
What was your leadership structure like in
your first few locations?
Speaker 3 (14:18):
You know, I think I really leaned into leading by
example.
So I was the first one to showup, I was the last one to leave.
I was reading a lot of books atthat time and I just knew that,
like you know, I really caredfor our team.
You know, if we had to have ahard conversation like it's not
fun to have hard conversationsbut I just leaned into it and I
(14:40):
was like I'm going to have thesehard conversations regardless
if it's, if it's uncomfortable.
I mean, I've had conversationslike like this we're in a closed
room office or a janitor closet, right, I'm shaking nervous
because it's like hard to tellsomebody bad news about them if
you're firing them or whateverit is.
But I always tried to just notignore those hard conversations
(15:00):
and just accept that that's apart of it and I just got to do
it and actually, to be honest,they get easier.
As you do them, they do geteasier.
So one funny story I read SimonSinek had a book called Great
Leaders Eat Last, and so I readthis book and we've only been
open for a couple months at thistime and so I was like, oh,
(15:21):
this is like amazing.
You know, it was like based onthe military and, like all the
Marines, you know the sergeantsand the leadership, they don't,
they wait to eat.
So everyone comes in the messhall, all their teammates, and
then, you know, once they'redone, then the leaders get to
eat.
So one day we're I'm workingall day famished, haven't eaten
anything, not one bite of food.
It's 10 o'clock at night.
We had a huge busy day.
(15:41):
Like everyone's exhausted,we're working hard to clean.
I said you know what I'm buyingeverybody pizza today.
You know, secretly, I'm like,also like selfishly, like hungry
, you know.
So I want pizza too.
Anyways, I order some pizzas,we throw them in the back and no
one's touching them.
I'm like, guys, there's pizza,you know.
So I want pizza too.
Anyways, I order some pizzas,we throw them in the back and no
one's touching them.
I'm like, guys, there's pizza,you know.
They're like, oh yeah, well,we're done, we'll clean them up
or whatever.
But I'm starting to get likewoozy because like I'm um, I'm
(16:04):
famished, because I've beenworking literally since six
o'clock in the morning, it's 10at night, haven't eaten at all.
I'm like lightheaded.
We're cleaning, cleaning,cleaning, cleaning.
No one's touching the pizza.
I'm like guys, eat, eat, eat.
We'll do it later.
Okay, finally, I'm like I guessI just have to eat.
I'm going to pass out, and soI'm eating.
And as I'm eating it, I'm justlike I'm such a bad leader.
I mean, first, I'm such a badleader, Simon.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Sinek would be so disappointed in me.
That's great.
I love it.
What is it about yourleadership that has made Friday
Coupe so successful?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I would say just authentically caring for our
people, you know, and you justhave to be there for them.
And kind of going back to thenegative side of that, like I
truly believe even when you firesomebody, like you might be
doing them a favor.
They might be complacent andthey're staying at the job and
if it's not a good fit for themor for us or vice versa,
(17:01):
whatever it is like it'sprobably not great for them,
just specifically, which otherway it's not good for.
But I always think likesometimes, like pushing people
out is like you sit down withthem and you explain like hey, I
know this like sounds bad today.
People out is like you sit downwith them.
You explain like hey, I knowthis like sounds bad today, but
you never know what's around thecorner for you.
So like I know I'm pushing youout right now, but you don't
know like this might lead tosomething around the corner that
(17:23):
you can't see right now that'sgoing to be great for you.
So I always like try toencourage people, even in the
bad times or the good times, andI think that's what a true
leader will do.
Is just kind of like go throughthose authentic like moments
with people, whether they'regood or bad.
So that's been, I think, a goodpart of it.
I will say now, like we're aboutto open our 10th store.
(17:45):
I'm working on our 11th.
We start construction in likesix weeks.
On that, we're also building acommissary behind that 11th
store.
So I've been so busy in theminutia of building stores and
whatever.
I kind of feel like I've been abad leader because I'm so busy
with like the day-to-day I'm notable to like step back right at
this moment this season andlike have those like really
(18:09):
authentic moments.
I will say I'm very lucky thatwe have a director of operations
who's awesome and he's beenmaking sure everyone's birthdays
are, like you know, on thecalendar.
So when someone has a birthday,even if it's as simple as like
getting the team to all sayhappy birthday, writing a card,
everyone signs it and like justbeing like top of mind of our
(18:31):
teams, like you know moments intheir lives personally, so we're
like acknowledging them andstuff like that.
But I think it's a big part oflike any culture, or at least
our culture, to be a good leaderit's so hard to stay connected
to all aspects of operations andpeople when you grow.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
How do you have any like secret recipes or any any
recipes for success on how to dothat, or is it something that
you're still trying to kind offigure out?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I think we're still trying to figure it out To me.
As you grow and you get to hirepeople, you kind of like take a
piece of your job.
Like I used to pay all theinvoices.
Even up until about two yearsago, we had seven locations.
I was still like sitting downand not doing a good job at it,
by the way, but I would like tryto get our accounts payable,
like take care of.
Maybe it was three years agonow, but now we have an accounts
(19:18):
payable person.
I don't pay invoices anymore,which is amazing.
So like I think it's nice, asyou scale and grow, you kind of
get people to like take overthose jobs, and I hope that one
day I can get to a level, maybein the next couple of years,
where my only job as the leaderis to like really think about
our people, care for our people.
(19:38):
I sat down with the CEO and gotsome advice way before I started
the business and I was justlike what does a CEO do?
Like what do you do, you know?
And he was like well, it's notmy job to do anyone's job.
He's like it's my job to helpeveryone accomplish their job
and support them.
And so I was like huh, that'spretty interesting, and so I
think my goal is still to getthere.
(20:00):
I'm still doing like fourdifferent jobs right now, but
I'm hoping that one day we builda team I can set the tone, like
I call myself the chief cultureofficer, because I feel like if
I can set the culture, set thetone, and then like those people
just thrive, that are betterthan me at whatever one specific
job they're doing, and then Ican get to a point where I'm
like, hey, like my job now is tojust care for our people, you
(20:23):
know, keep them front of mind.
What are they going through?
How can I support them?
How can I help them?
But you're right, it's so hardwhen you're growing.
Yeah, four, four million thingson the task list.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
So yeah, and you can feel like you're losing control.
Yeah, yeah, it's difficult.
It's also the more that youwell, just being an entrepreneur
is lonely.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
It definitely is lonely.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
How are you kind of investing in your own
development and combating thatloneliness?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I try to carve out some time for myself.
Like I started going to the gymthis year, which has been
really helpful.
I found an amazing gym.
But while I'm there, I like tryto pick people's brains.
I still talk to them Like I'llsee an old man in the hot tub
and I'll be like, hey, what wasyour career?
You know I owned a business.
You did really tell me about it.
You know, also, too, I in a lotof uh groups with people that
(21:16):
I've like built up relationshipsover the years so if I'm ever
feeling like really like on anisland by myself, I can call
people and talk to them about it.
I have a ton of friends thatare business owners so we kind
of chat back and forth about,you know, some of their
struggles and some of mystruggles and, um, it's good to
get stuff off your chest.
You know, when you're goingthrough stuff.
There's a couple groups andthat's another thing that I'm
(21:37):
like bummed about not havingtime right now because like
there's a group called EO thatI've been really entrepreneurs
organization, I think it'scalled but I learned like that
people say it's like a gamechanger.
They're like you need to dothis, like it helps, like you
know, kind of bring a bunch oflike business owners together
and you can, you know, help eachother.
(21:57):
Like all ships rise with thetide, kind of thing.
So, but going back to growing,it's so hard to carve out time
for my family because I don'twant to miss their childhood by
like getting bogged down withworking so much.
Yeah, so it's um, it's a thingtoo Um and uh, you know, it's
(22:20):
really kind of you can't.
There's certain things youcan't complain about or talk
about with your team, because,like owning a business is to me,
it's like having a baby.
You know, you can read a bunchof books about it, you can talk
to people about it, learn, watchYouTube videos, but there's no
reality until you have a baby inyour hand.
So it's like complaining ortalking with someone who doesn't
(22:40):
have kids.
When you have kids, about kids,they can never comprehend what
that's like unless they havetheir own children.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
You're talking to somebody that doesn't have
children.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I can't relate I empathize I want to.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I totally get that.
I can't relate.
Yeah, I empathize.
I want to.
Yeah, I totally get that.
What's the biggest challengethat you've run into in this
growth phase that you're in?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
So one of the things that I was telling you I've
listened to thousands ofpodcasts, and not only just like
podcasts of like businessowners, like specific niche
restaurant podcasts.
I've never heard anyone talkabout this before.
Yeah, after like 1,500 podcasts, I was like how is this
possible?
But basically the biggest thingthat I screwed up is I never
collected all the sourcedocuments for invoices, receipts
(23:28):
.
We just trusted our vendors andset them up on autopay.
In the beginning I mean, it waslike bonkers.
I was like, oh just, we'll goon autopay, you just deduct the
money out of our bank account,no problem.
And the invoice says, oh, Idon't need the invoice.
If there's ever a problem, I'llwork it out.
And we hired a bookkeeperBecause I think the three key
(23:48):
things that you need is greatservice, great food or great
product and then great finances.
If you don't have those threethings in any business, you're
not going to make it.
So the finance part I thoughtby hiring a bookkeeper, like
well, that's taken care of.
Like we got the bookkeeper,like she's doing it.
Well, I learned that ourbookkeeper was just basically
going off the bank account andthen she was just guessing like
(24:10):
what everything was.
There wasn't like a veryspecific and if you think about
like an invoice, it might havelike disposals on it, it might
have food, it might havechemicals.
So even though, like, you'vegot this one invoice and it
comes across, as you know, maybea $5,000 payable, like you
don't know what's in there.
So I think that was a hugemistake and going from we got
(24:34):
away with it, going from one tofive restaurants, no problem.
But then going from five to ten,it has turned out to be like a
huge ball to untangle.
And going from five to ten, ithas turned out to be like a huge
ball to untangle.
And so we've had to really,like, go back to step one,
collect all invoices, allreceipts, make sure that each
(24:56):
line item is GL correctly,general ledger to our finances,
like 100%.
So now we know specifically,like, down to the minutiae, like
was that repair a buildingrepair?
Was it equipment repair?
Was it a preventive maintenance?
Was itiae like?
Was that repair a buildingrepair?
Was it equipment repair?
Was it a preventive maintenance?
Was it?
You know like, but we know veryspecific now and we're still
improving on that, but like thatwas a huge thing.
I wish I could go back and justtell myself like collect all
the invoices.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, it seems like it's the way you described.
It is really, really simple,but it doesn't give you the
visibility over every singlewhere every single dollar is
going.
Oh yeah, what were some of theaha moments that you had when
you switched everything over andyou started to really have that
visibility over each line item?
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Well, I think you just kind of understand your
expenses a little bit and I'velearned I love this phrase
expenses are like fingernails,they're always growing and they
always got to be cut.
And that is so true.
Whatever business you're in,even at your house, your
expenses just always keep goingup.
You know how did it get likethis, you know?
So you have to dive into thedetails and say, oh, okay, wow,
(25:52):
we're spending this much on this, we're spending this much on
that.
So I think, knowing specificallywhere your expenses are and
like kind of like looking atthem, you're like wow, we spent
$90,000 on preventativemaintenance.
Well, now, maybe I can hire apreventative maintenance person,
maybe for 65K, give them a$10,000 bonus and they do all
preventative maintenance.
I just saved 10 grand a year.
You do that enough and youstart, you know, finding those
(26:15):
little pennies and nickels onthe ground.
You know that can add up to aprofitable business one day.
So I think that's the key.
Like aha, like, oh, like, I canreally hone in on the, you know
, and everyone should go throughtheir P&L with a fine tooth
comb Cause, like I said, thosenails are always growing.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I've never heard that before.
I love that.
So what made you decide tochange your strategy, your
growth strategy, and go from 15to 75?
Speaker 3 (26:39):
That's a great question.
So I kind of realized, onerestaurant, two restaurants, 10
restaurants, you know like how,how, whatever you set, your
audacious goals are, whateverthat ceiling is like, you can
only grow into that ceiling.
So when I kind of realized like15, I'm like, well, what would
our business look like at 15stores?
And then I kind of was like, oh, like we actually need to have
(27:02):
more EBITDA than that.
And so one of the things thatreally honed it in was I was
like I found out, if you want tobring a company public, the
magic number is really around 25million EBITDA.
So I was like, okay, 25 millionEBITDA, you don't have to be
that number to go public, butthat is like a very key marker.
When you have 25 million atEBITDA, you have a line of
(27:25):
investors, private equity,people that want to take your
company public.
There's just you createopportunity at that point.
And then I looked at a verybrand I love a lot called
Potbelly.
They started in Chicago.
I was like, how many storesdoes Potbelly have?
I looked around Chicago theyhave 80 locations.
But it's not like a Starbuckseffect where you would like you
(27:46):
can stand in one place and seelike four Starbucks in one block
.
You know they're not likebumping into each other.
So I thought, okay, and then Istarted working backwards.
Like, okay, how do we get to 25million EBITDA?
We would need 75 locations todo $2 million a year.
That gives us $150 million inrevenue.
And then, if we can be 15%profitable, boom, I got to my
(28:07):
$25 million in EBITDA.
So that's when I was kind ofjust looking backwards and I was
like, oh, we can open up andour market in Chicago is so
great because it's huge, we have9 million people here, there's
300-plus neighborhoods.
So I started thinking, thinking, well, this is a very
accomplishable goal.
Like if we can have 75 storesin chicago and hit those numbers
(28:28):
, like now, we've created thisgreat opportunity for our people
.
And me too, I'm included, I'mpeople in the business right.
So we've kind of moved a littlebit of our purpose to we're
growing our company so we cangrow our people.
And if we accomplish that goal,I think we can either have an
exit for our people, we can setup retirements for our people.
There's just a lot moreopportunity to care for our team
(28:48):
.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
I love that.
Love the emphasis on people.
It's, it's simple, it's you.
You think it's common sense,but there's so many people that
do that.
Just don't prioritize theirteams.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Well, you don't do it by yourself and I always
thought like no-transcript, no,we're in this together and if we
(29:29):
can rise up together like Iwant, to cash everybody out, I
love it Amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
That's great.
What is the single biggestthing that you need in order to
create sustainable growth as youget to 75?
I need cash.
To create sustainable growth asyou get to 75?
I need cash.
Besides cash, can I borrow $30million?
Any chance you got that in yourbag over here.
I love that you think that Icould come up with something
like that, but no, I can't helpyou, I think.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Well, obviously, funding it properly, you really
have to do a balance betweendebt and revenue and
profitability, and if the scaletips too much, you know you can
get yourself into trouble.
I also think standard operatingprocedures are now our best
friend.
I'm Joe SOP Fontana, nice, tomeet you.
(30:15):
It is literally so key in thepoint of making sure that
everything's written down.
The operations is lock stockand smoking barrels, cause I
could give you the Bible tofight a coup.
Right now.
I can give you everything, allthe recipes, the location,
everything like write everythingdown, and that is only like 5%
of it.
(30:36):
Operations is everything, almostlike military precision and
operations, and so I think, asyou scale, you have to take that
very seriously.
You need people in place thatare doing a very specific job.
That's very like thought out.
The SOPs are in place, thetrainings, the you know
(30:56):
everything that goes aroundrunning a very operationally
tight ship.
There is places that have awfulfood.
We're not going to name thembecause people are up there
listening but there is placesthat we all know of the food is
awful, but guess what?
They're crushing it.
And why?
Because they have greatoperations and they're reliable
(31:17):
and it's there every day and youknow when it opens, you know
what they do, you know what toexpect.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
But I think, think, like, if we can do great food
and great operations like sokiller.
It makes me so happy to hearyou say that I coach independent
multi-unit owners and it's sobecause of cash flow and just
the way that the industry isstructured.
Most of them start by doingeverything on their own.
They are the bookkeeper, theyare the marketing person, they
are the HR component, they arethe chef, they are the
(31:50):
maintenance person and they'vegot everything up in their head,
it's all in their mind and it'sso difficult as you grow to A,
let go of that control and B,transfer all of that knowledge,
all that institutional knowledgethat you have, and get it done
on paper and take the time tobuild the systems and train the
systems and then continue totweak the systems.
(32:11):
But it is the most importantthing and it gives you freedom
as an owner.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
It's so important Consistency and also to like I
think, to me too this feelsoverwhelming to write everything
down.
We're almost getting to thepoint where we might hire an
operations person and that's allthey do is just come up with
those SOPs, write it down.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I mean we have a lot.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, but like really just lean into that more.
And it doesn't even have to belike a full-time thing.
You can hire somebody for ninemonths who does that, and then I
don't know if it's letting themgo or like a consultant type
thing.
Maybe it's just a front.
Hey, for the next six to ninemonths.
Like I need you to come inevery day, write all this stuff
down, yeah for us, and then youknow, then you're kind of like
at least have a foundation ofthe sop.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
They're always growing and changing always um,
I'll give, I'll tell you asecret that I do so when I when
I work with clients, becauseyou're using AI a little bit in
your business, right?
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, a little bit yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I use it for every aspect of my business, but when
I work with clients and theywant an SOP, we just discuss
over the meeting exactly whatthey want to see out of those
SOPs.
It can be server training Ithink I know where you're going
with this and then the AImeeting notes, just turns it
into an SOP immediately thatthey can then take to their
teams and start putting in tests.
Oh, I love that and roll it.
So it's very easy, very simpleto get those things.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I heard about something, too, where you can
actually have the meetingrecorded.
Yes, and then it'll summarizethe meeting afterwards.
Yep, that's it.
That's what you're talkingabout AI meeting notes Yep it's
a game changer Wow.
You can record phoneconversations now on your iPhone
(33:47):
if you you're traveling orwhatever, and then, same thing,
you can throw the transcript inand have it generate something
for you.
We're always talking aboutoperations.
Like our team, we're constantlygoing back about this and what
needs to be done, and that's abrilliant idea.
I love that capture it all andjust have it do the work for you
.
I just thought about hiringsomeone to do that yeah, ai is
very, very powerful.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It's a really it a.
It's a really great personalassistant for anybody in
business these days.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
So you have a software or like a one.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I use.
I've tried a few different ones.
I've used Otter a little bit,but my favorite right now is
super normal and it connectswith Google meet and zoom.
And there's so many of them outthere.
A lot of them have freeversions and they're very, very
easy to use and they're 100%.
Most of them are 100% accurate,which is really, really cool.
And you know how it is.
It's like with AI garbage in,garbage out, so it's going to
(34:30):
spit you out something a littlebit vanilla and then you just
continue to tweak and tweak,which is really fun.
But you can test it in onelocation and then get it exactly
where you want it to and whereyou want it to be, and then you
can roll it at all the otherlocations.
It's pretty awesome.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Super normal is funny because that's the opposite of
anyone in the restaurantbusiness.
So here we go with our own one.
We call it super weird.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I love it.
I love it.
That's great.
What are you most excited aboutin the next five years?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Oh, I cannot wait to hire like seven more people on
our team that can just kind oftrain and like right now, for
example, I'm the marketer, weonly have us.
I have a social media person,but they're an outside
contractor.
We have a publicist they're anoutside contractor, but the
marketing is on me.
I spend about 10 minutes a weekon marketing.
(35:17):
So to me that kind of breaks myheart because, like I know we
could be doing way better andway more if somebody was able to
focus on that 40, 50 hours aweek.
So, that being one example, Iwould love to hire a marketer.
I need a facility manager, weneed just operations people.
I need a trainer.
So in the next couple of years,as we scale the business, I'm
(35:37):
really looking forward toboosting up our team so we can
excel in these.
That, like I would love to justbe doing way better in than
we're doing right now.
Yeah, and so that to me likegets me like excited because I'm
like we could be doing so muchbetter.
We just need someone that likedoes this full time.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, I'm excited for those people to free up your
time too, to be able to spendtime with your family.
Continue developing yourselfand be that chief culture
officer.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
I am the hardest working, laziest person you've
ever met, Like I'm working sohard so I could eventually do
nothing.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
I love it.
That's great, that's good.
Well, thank you so much, joe,for coming on the show, really
inspired by your story, loveyour commitment to people, know
you're working your ass off andit's paying off.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
So congratulations, and I think I benefited here
from your little tip.
Here we're going to, we'regoing to be.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I got some more after we get done here, so I love it.
I can't wait to come check outyour spot here in just a couple
hours.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Chicken sandwich number one chicken sandwich in
Chicago, double fried and beeftallow handmade.
Every bite of it is crunchy,salty, savory, handmade.
And every bite of it is crunchy, salty, savory, spicy, sweet,
all at the same time, and youare going to love it my mouth is
watering amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Thank you so much.
Thank you awesome.
All right, everybody that'sgoing to do it for us on the
restaurant leadership podcast,share this episode and show with
anybody that you know in therestaurant that could benefit
and, if you have anyavailability, vote, or you know
anybody for the positions thatjoe's looking for.
We're staring at this big groupout of people.
You let them.
Somebody's raising their handalready you got your first hire,
(37:07):
I love.
It Awesome everybody.
We'll talk to you soon.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
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