May 11, 2022 • 27 mins
Passionate, creative, and undeniably driven, Kyla Tuori’s culinary career began at the highly acclaimed professional chef school George Brown College. Starting her career in fine dining coupled with a marketing background from University of Guelph, made Unilever Food Solutions an ideal fit.
What began as an internship evolved into a career with the prestigious company, and the opportunity to work amongst Unilever’s talented and experienced chefs throughout North America and the Globe.
Through Chef Tuori’s, almost decade long career with Unilever, she has been the recipient of the OHI’s Top 30 Under 30 Award, affiliated with a variety of Culinary associations, and on the advisory board of charitable organizations, such as Community Outreach/Second Chance, which changes the lives of people in need by creating reliable connections and opportunities.
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Episode Transcript
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Nan Wilkinson (00:03):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to restaurantradio. My guest today is Kyla
Tuori, she is the chef atUnilever and heads up the fair
kitchen movement. Welcome to ourpodcast today.
Kyla Tuori (00:15):
Nan, thank you so much for having me. I'm very
excited about this. And also younailed the pronunciation of my
last name. Yes, I always worryabout that. It's so important.
So yeah, I'm glad I got it.
That's fantastic. Well, again,thank you for being being with
us today. So I had a fewquestions and wanted to talk to
you. So tell me why Unileverstarted fair kitchens. Yeah,
(00:36):
it's, it seems really odd,right? I think one of the
questions we would get likewhat's in it for Unilever,
because, you know, you think bigmanufacturing company. And we're
associating ourselves with thismovement called fair kitchens,
which, of course, I'm the north,I'm very lucky to be one of the
North American ambassadors for.
But really, it is just that, youknow, being a huge manufacturer
(01:00):
in the industry, and seeing whatthe industry has been like. And
so many of us that I mean,that's my role is a chef with
them. But we do have a lot ofchefs and non chef roles on our
team. And they, we've alwaysunderstood that there is a
harmful side to kitchen culture,there can be a negative side to
it, and it's a little bitbroken.
(01:21):
And so knowing all of that weactually on a global scale in
2017, ended up doing a study.
And the study, of course, wastowards, you know, cooks and
chefs in different roles aroundthe world, finding out where
there was some core issues andcore problems. And it was
astounding, the numbers and thepercentages, we got back around
(01:45):
chefs that we're feelingfatigued to the point of
breaking depression, addiction.
I mean, the things that we knew,we know, but to actually see
those numbers. Right. Very,yeah. Very rattling, as you can
imagine. Well, oh, that was 2017to I mean, take put the pandemic
(02:08):
through, you know, put everybodythrough the pandemic, and I'm
sure it would be even worse, ifyou did that. Yeah, absolutely.
And, I mean, it was it wasinteresting, too, because, you
know, okay, so this is happeningin 2017. We're like, what can we
do? You know, what, like, let'suse what we do have as resources
as this big company to try tomake a change for good. And,
(02:31):
and then in 2018, our industrywas shook up again. I mean, not
that it's not constantly, butthere was a lot of very, like,
media facing public cheffigures,
where we saw, you know, storiesof addiction, and definitely
suicide, and it was know what,like, this needs to be
(02:52):
addressed. This is now morepublic than ever. And we need to
kind of take that and do what wecan. So essentially, that's why
Unilever was involved. It is theface it is my favorite part of
my job, as well is working withtheir kitchens. Well good for
Unilever. And for y'all for fordoing that. Because, as you
(03:15):
said, it is a problem. To me.
It's, it's why
Nan Wilkinson (03:21):
the whole culture and I you know, I call it toxic,
I don't know if that's the bestword to use. But to me, it's the
number one reason that we'reshort on people in this
industry. And this has beengoing on for a long time, as you
said, You guys looked at it at2017. And I think the
hospitality the restaurantindustry, is, if you were to
look at, like you said substanceabuse it is of all the different
(03:43):
industries. I think it's got thehighest I believe, I know it has
at some point and I don't knowif it's all addiction or what
but anyway, yeah, I mean, it's,there's so many different
things. And you know, thepressure sometimes can be fun,
and sometimes it's justpressure, you know, working in a
kitchen, especially in the backof the house. So good on y'all
(04:04):
for doing this. That's, that'sgreat. So tell me a little bit
so you you guys see the need? Sowhat is fair kitchens movement
about like, what is thegrassroots of what y'all are
trying to do?
Kyla Tuori (04:15):
Yeah, um, so I mean, it's, it's also in the name is,
of course to make every kitchena fair kitchen. But it is about
making a change on that globalscale. So it's like 17 million
restaurants around the world.
I'm sure that number wasprobably different now post, but
a lot of making healthier andhappier workplaces and the
(04:37):
industry as a whole. And ofcourse, that encapsulates a huge
variety of different areasbecause health and happiness are
impacted by every single thingthat we do.
And doing that by creatingawareness. Having open dialogue,
(04:59):
connecting People and alsosupplying resources and tools is
what fair kitchens is reallyabout. So it's how can we make
that change? But it's it's verysimilar to what you're doing.
You know, and, you know, I'm soglad that we've connected
because this is a big thing,right? Trying to change a
(05:19):
culture that is so embedded.
Yeah. And it's like turning aship, but you need so many
people to be a part of it. Andit's going to be ongoing. I
don't see this as somethingthat's going to stop. That's a
constant work and change, Ithink. Yeah,
Nan Wilkinson (05:35):
no, I absolutely agree. I like that as
interesting analogy about, youknow, changing direction of a
ship. I mean, yeah, it's, it'snot going to happen, it's not
going to turn on a dime. Andit's gonna take a lot of people
to do that. So with that, Imean, I know some of the things
that y'all have done, I seeposts on social media, I see
that you guys worked with theCulinary Institute of America to
(05:55):
do this training class formanagers, which is phenomenal.
What, what other things arey'all doing to try to get the
word out and to try to make thethe differences that y'all are
providing the resources for? Howdo you mean social media,
connecting with chefs, we whatare the ways you're trying to
(06:16):
be?
Kyla Tuori (06:16):
I mean, those are, those are definitely two of the
ways. I, again, I just kind of,like I said, took over this role
as leading the movement forNorth America. So it's kind of
like I'm trying to make allthese new connections and figure
out different ways to get outthere. So of course, we have our
social medias, right, we gotcontact with think we were just
(06:39):
talking about like Facebook, andLinkedIn, and Instagram. And of
course, we have our landing pageand all that good stuff. But
it's a it's also about gettingout to where the operators are.
And, you know, partnering, ofcourse, with other organizations
and groups that have that reachand have the network is a big
(07:03):
part of it. Right. And, youknow, I think right now, too,
we're seeing a lot of kind of, Ithink post pandemic communing
within the industry, if youwill, I think a lot of people,
you know, everybody'sstruggling, we're looking for
resources, how do we get backinto things, even though things
(07:23):
are opened up now, we'reobviously been so scarred by
what has happened. But I thinkpeople are taking advantage more
of, you know, nationalconferences, and, you know,
affiliations that they can be apart of where they can network.
And I think that's how we can beinvolved more, to make people at
least aware that we're there,that we exist, and that we have
(07:45):
resources that can help them.
But then on the flip side, a bigthing for me is finding out what
cooks chefs, anybody in thehospitality industry, what do
you need that will help supportyou? How can other people learn
from what you aren't doing?
Well, you know, it's not alldoom and gloom side of things of
like, oh, you're not doing this,right. And, you know, you need
(08:07):
to be better. It's also, hey,you're doing this really well?
How do we share with otherpeople, best practices that are
out there that have healthykitchen cultures that do have a
thriving business? Because theyhave very little turnover? You
know, staff loves what they do.
So yeah, I think I touched on awhole bunch of different Yeah,
Nan Wilkinson (08:26):
no, you did. You did. And one of the questions I
was going to ask you, I thinkyou've kind of already sort of
hit a little bit on that. It'slike, do you think, like, now is
a prime time for some of thesecultural changes in the
industry? And I think you'vekind of addressed that. And I
wholeheartedly agree with you. Ithink that, as an industry,
we're coming together a littlebit more and, and, you know,
we're a hospitality industry, Ithink, you know, we're trying to
(08:48):
be more hospitable again, and,like you said, sharing what's
working for people and what'snot. And hopefully, that rising
tide will lift all the boatsbecause, you know, people love
to eat. And so there's certainlyroom for plenty of businesses
out there. And, you know, it'sinteresting, kind of a side
note, one of the things I wasthinking, helping the industry
(09:09):
and with, with help connects andtrying to help is that, you
know, sometimes there's peoplethat want other jobs, and this
is gonna sound crazy, but whatabout like work sharing? Where,
if, if you if you had a group ofrestaurants that maybe, maybe
I'm, I don't know, line cook atnight, but I would like to pick
up some extra hours and I'mwilling, you know, and you've
(09:29):
got a restaurant and you say,hey, you know, yeah, take Nan
for a couple of afternoon shiftsover here. And, you know, kind
of networking like that as welland having it so that you can
see who's willing to do youknow, kind of work sharing, if
you will, I mean, because,again, just trying to fill
everybody's needs because maybeyou don't need a full time
person but you and then thatperson knows they're going to
work with your schedule. I don'tknow. Just
Kyla Tuori (09:51):
I know. I love that idea. Because I think the other
thing that you're hitting on thehead there is the fact that
okay, One, we get to mostly getinto this industry same mostly
because we love to cook, we loveto feed people, we love to bring
people joy, we want to becreative when we can all of that
good stuff. And I think givingpeople variety, which can also
(10:14):
sometimes be lacking, as we knowfrom some jobs in the kitchen.
So that aspect, in addition tothe networking, in addition to
treating it almost like careerdevelopment, right, because
percent, yes, it Yeah. So veryrare that people move into. And
this is something actually thatwe're trying to address with
(10:37):
some surveys, which I know thatyou you and I had talked about
earlier, some some surveys thatwe put out there, and I can go
into more detail with those thatare listening on what exactly
those are, but we're trying toreally identify for potential
employees. What's missing? Whatdo they what do they look for
(10:57):
when they are looking for a job?
What is not currently out in theindustry, and I think part of
that is career pathing is not100% 100%.
Nan Wilkinson (11:07):
And even even if you step back from career
pathing because I'm sure you andI both know plenty of people
that have started out asdishwashers who ended up running
a kitchen or owning their ownplace. But, but even stepping
back from that, and you know,not everybody's maybe wants to
be the head of a kitchen or owntheir own restaurant or, but
just, I think just looking atthe employees as a whole and
(11:31):
seeing how you can show that youwant to give them value to what
they're doing. And anothernetworking thing that I thought
would be so cool. And I gotsomething set up on my website
that shows us, but is again,let's say you and I have a
restaurant in town, and you areItalian, and I'm whatever
Mexican. And what if I said hey,man, I'm gonna have each each
(11:55):
month on a Tuesday, a slow dayfrom two to three, anyone the
restaurant can come in, andwe're gonna have a guest chef
come in and show you some newdishes that we can prepare, and
that can be the waitstaff orwhatever, and just have ways to
invest again in people to showthem new things and to do a
training. I mean, it doesn'teven have to be it doesn't it
(12:16):
can it would be great if it wasa career path or training that
was grandiose, but it could justbe something simple, like, what
would you guys like to see, I'mgonna have Kyla, come in. And
she's going to show us how tomake this Italian dish or this
mother sauce or whatever theheck it is. Yeah. And you do you
get to meet other people. Andit's, it's fun, and it's
interactive, and it makes us acommunity and you're showing
(12:39):
that, again, you're trying toinvest in their future and
training them and teaching themsomething. And people can do
that across the board, any sizerestaurant, wherever for free. I
mean, you can you can provideresources that don't have to be
expensive or fancy, to showpeople that you care about them
(13:00):
and that they your your paypaying time and attention to
what might matter to them.
Kyla Tuori (13:05):
It's it's it's interesting, because I know that
you and I are both also familiarwith corporate, corporate
business, corporate side ofthings. And it's almost like we
need to take some of our bestpractices that have been really
hold on in that industry andapply them to a certain extent,
to the hospitality industry.
Yeah, as opposed to sometimesfeeling like it's the wild west
(13:28):
out there. And we're justgetting by and, you know, it's
planning and engaging with thestaff and having people feel
like they're involved in thattheir opinions matter, and that
what they do matters. And, youknow, we've been seeing some
great examples from some of thechefs that have shared with us,
you know, what they do in theirkitchens around, you know, team
(13:49):
building, and it doesn't alwayshave to be, you know, going out
for drinks when your shift isdone, right. But it can be, you
know, like going bowling withyour team, or, you know, just
doing regular check ins which weactually at Pier kitchens, we do
have some, some tools andresources around and around
checking in with your team. So,you know, to make that a little
(14:15):
bit easier and kind ofguardrails if you haven't had
those types of conversationsbefore. Again, I think it's,
it's that closeness and, ofcourse, that is going to make
for a happier team and thereforea more successful team and
hopefully less turnover.
Nan Wilkinson (14:34):
Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head to
just the professionalism of theway we're looking at our
employees. And for I mean,everything from a dishwasher.
Again, somebody can be hired asa dishwasher, maybe that's all
they want to do. Or you'd say,Look, this is where you'll
start. And this is again, thecareer path so that they can see
(14:56):
that there's more to it thanthat and we can keep people in
the end St instead of theturnover and the losing people,
and we can attract people backinto the industry, because I
mean, so many people who aren'teven in the industry know about
the toxicity in this industry.
And if we don't start changingthat, we're going to stay where
we are, or it's going to getworse. Like he said, It's gonna
(15:17):
take a while. But thatprofessionalism, I think, is, is
definitely a big key to it aswell. And just looking at it,
like a like a profession. Yeah.
So yeah, this is these are greatconversations. So as you engaged
people, how has it beenreceived? I mean, there are
people like, oh, yeah, this isgreat. And we need this or like,
(15:40):
Yeah, I mean, what's thereception been? I think
Kyla Tuori (15:45):
I do the site, because, you know, everybody
neatly knows, you know, yes, weshould make the industry a
better place and good place. Noteverything's great. You know,
where I actually tend to seesome of the divide. This is a
(16:05):
two parter is that it's, it'sthe older generation, okay, of
chefs, that they really grew upin the old school brigade
system, where it was, you justhad to put up with stuff. That's
(16:26):
the sweet you had to do to getby. So I'm not even talking
about, you know, areas like fairwages, or scheduling or parental
leave, I'm talking about justhow people are treated, how
mental health and abuse andaddiction are within the
kitchen, there's definitely anold school mentality. And I,
(16:49):
that has been a little bittricky. Knock, again, that they
don't realize that there's, youknow, good things that need to
happen. I think that's partthough, that resistance is
partially I think, what'sholding up some of the change. I
think that the youngergeneration, expect something
much different, which is alsowhy we're seeing huge exodus
from the industry. Right. And Ithink the best way that we're
(17:15):
going to do this, and you knowwhat, maybe we didn't always
approach it the right way. Ormaybe it didn't come across
always the right way. But Ithink again, it's about
celebrating what people aredoing well, and not making
people feel as though they'rewrong, or that they're doing
something bad. I think, youknow, kind of being more on the
positive side of it, and thenshowing the benefit to the
(17:37):
business. Right. Yeah. Becausewe know, there's some restaurant
owners, but I guess I mean, it'swe're in the business to make
money. Right? You, right?
Everybody is? Yeah, exactly. Andsometimes that's the priority
for some people at all costs.
And I think it's just showingthe benefit of that human cost.
(18:00):
And how a change for the betterwill also help their business.
Does that? Yeah, yeah. No,
Nan Wilkinson (18:11):
absolutely. And I, you know, I think that, you
know, it feels like to me, withthe whole wage peace of things
people like, oh, you know,they're just throwing, you know,
a bandaid on something. And tobe sure, I know, it's hard on
the businesses, but the wageshave been pretty awful. And,
(18:31):
again, at the very bottom of thetotem pole are restaurant and
hospitality workers, as far asindustry is, at least in the
United States. And so itdefinitely needed to be
addressed. But that's, to me,that's a band aid, not even a
band aid, like that should justbe like a given like, yeah, pay
(18:51):
people a fair wage, right. Andso after that is really the hard
work of looking at the industry,or at your specific business and
say, what more can I do? What isit that people, like you were
saying, what do they need? Whatare they looking for, to want to
stay here more long term? I wastalking to somebody who's in HR
for Hotel Group, and she wastalking about the people that
(19:15):
she was hiring and what she waspaying, and she said to me, she
said, I wouldn't work for that.
I thought, Well, I mean, notonly would you not work for
that, but probably that wage isnot even don't worry about
living wage, like actually, it'sprobably not even a wage that
somebody can really afford tolive on. And so you just kind of
shake your head and go, well,good luck. You know, like, do
(19:38):
you want to know why you don'thave people? Well, there you go.
And you take that and then youyou know, you try to fix that
piece and then you go okay, butthen your managers like you
said, are our crap you don'ttreat people well or you know, I
think in the industry, we'vekind of wanted to think of
ourselves as badass as and youknow, That's great, right?
(19:59):
That's that's one thing. Butbeing a being that is doesn't
mean you have to be a jerk.
Kyla Tuori (20:06):
Yeah, you can be bad ass and lead a team with
compassion and respect andinclusivity I don't think that
yeah. It's, um, I was justthinking too about, you know,
you look at other industries,like, think about the tech
industry, and they're trying toattract, you know, younger
(20:27):
generation, etc, etc. And lookat all the perks. Yeah. Right.
And it's like, why does that notexist in our industry? Yeah. And
it doesn't even need to besomething grandiose. No, you
know,
Nan Wilkinson (20:41):
right. Yeah.
Yeah, I know, I agree. Andagain, sometimes you just have
to think outside the box. Again,if you've got this community of
restaurants, I say, hey, Kyla,I'd love to share five $20 gift
certificates to your place. AndI'll give you five of mine. And
let's give them out as whateverlike you. I mean, whatever you
want to do, but, you know, youcan say, job well done. Here's,
you know, $20 gift certificateto kylus place or, I mean, we
(21:05):
have ways that we can do thingsthat really don't have to cost
much or any money, but you dohave to think outside the box a
little bit. And I think thatit's just high time we do that.
Kyla Tuori (21:19):
Absolutely. And I it's a what you brought up the
leadership training earlier. AndI just kind of want to briefly
briefly explain it. Because Idon't know if whoever whoever's
listening to this will have willknow exactly what it is. Great.
Yeah, please do. So it is ourleadership training. And it's
(21:41):
not actually it's not just forpeople that are currently in a
leadership position. It reallycould be for anybody. And it
could be front of house back ofhouse. I mean, that's what
Nan Wilkinson (21:48):
I tell everybody.
By the way. I said as a don'tjust have your leaders have it
till everybody take it. Soeverybody's on the same page.
And it was with the leaderstrying to facilitate so yes, go
ahead. Sorry.
Kyla Tuori (22:01):
No, no, please. I mean, because you've also looked
at the training, right. So like,your insights into it, I think
are phenomenal. And I mean, italso shows, you know, we go back
to career pathing, if somebodythat's not currently in a
leadership position, then doesthis and it's something they can
put on their resume. I mean,that is a great way to help
identify people that you do wantto promote, like, hey, they are
(22:24):
interested, they are takingsteps. So the leadership
training courses, of course,because everything's online, is
virtual online, available toanybody in the world for free.
And it is, well 830 minutemodules. One of the modules is
(22:44):
an intro. So you know, I don'twant to be too misleading here.
But they are short modules. Soyou know, you can do one at a
time, like one a week orwhatever fits your schedule,
which is the lovely thing. Yeah.
And each of the modules reallyhones in and has, you know,
expert advice, best practiceswith regards to different areas
(23:05):
that are key for managing a teamin a really good way. And so
we're talking about diversityand inclusion and mental health,
conflict resolution, best hiringpractices. So having that and
doing the assessment at the end,then you get a certification
(23:28):
from the Culinary Institute ofAmerica. So
Nan Wilkinson (23:33):
it's so cool.
That's so cool. Yes. So I almostwent to the CIA. And I thought,
Okay, this is my way to getsomething from the CIA with my
resume, look, I've got know thatit's really cool. Except for the
guys went to Johnson and Walesare a little bit like what but
anyway, I digress. And Waleswill do something with you, too,
right. Come on, bring it on. Oh,no, it's fantastic. I like so I
(23:55):
think it's great. It's a I needto I need to push it more for
people. So thank you all fordoing that.
Kyla Tuori (24:07):
I, you know what, and it's an ongoing process, of
course, because there's alwayslike, you know, I said earlier,
there's always going to besomething for us to address,
right? Because that's just life.
And you know, there's going tobe more modules to add, there's
more learnings to be had. Butthat's the beautiful thing about
it right, is we're kind of justcontinue to grow, continue to
(24:30):
evolve. And we'll see where wego. Right.
Nan Wilkinson (24:36):
Well, I certainly appreciate Unilever and y'all
and the fair kitchens movement,because again, we were primed.
This is the time to I thinkreally see some major changes. I
think it's it's sort of outthere for the taking, if you
will, and we just need to getthe word out and bring more
people together because there'spower in numbers and yeah, I'm
(24:58):
excited about the future. thinkit's gonna take a while, like
you said, but I'm really excitedabout trying to excite the
industry and get some new peopleback in and see if we can get
this. Get us going again and getsome fire and joy and fun going
again in this industry.
Kyla Tuori (25:14):
I'm with you. I feel very optimistic. Because we just
can't We can't be without arestaurant industry. Yeah, I saw
a comment. I love readingcomments and things. And this
guy had said, like, oh, whateverrestaurants are closing, you
don't need that many. And I'mlike, Oh, we live under a rock.
(25:35):
Like, it's part of our culture.
It is thriving industry. So Ifeel good because we need it.
It's the
Nan Wilkinson (25:43):
it's the most primitive thing. Food and
sharing. And yeah, absolutely.
We're in the best industry. Andthat person was just wrong.
Kyla Tuori (25:54):
Yeah, like I said, he, you know, he probably had
access to the internet for oneday, and just like lives in a
cave somewhere. So yeah,exactly. No, and,
Nan Wilkinson (26:02):
you know, and I, I am really proud of our
industry, it's, you know, asalways, has been a very
resilient industry. And I haveseen some amazing restaurants
come through this pandemic. Andjust with flying colors, really,
and, you know, they kind of theypivoted, and they're like, Okay,
what are we going to do? I mean,you know, they are, they are an
industry where people kind of,you know, you have to react
(26:24):
quickly to things. It's not aslow paced i Let's talk about I
mean, you know, they're anaction group. And so I'm really
proud of everybody, and allthey've done to get through
this. It's, it has been, it'sbeen tough. And I'm excited to
see what I can do and what fairkitchens and others can do to
help elevate them, keep themgoing and excite new people to
(26:46):
come into our industry.
Kyla Tuori (26:48):
Absolutely. And I just want to say to Nan, like,
thank you for what you're doing.
I know, it's another full timejob, but because it's you love
it. And I think that what you'reputting out there is can be a
huge help. I know that because Iknow what your future plans are,
too, which will be an amazinghelp to the industry. So I
Nan Wilkinson (27:08):
hope so. Yeah. I appreciate it. I hope so will
kind of like thank you so much.
I know that I'm I'm hoping youat some point will be back with
me again on the podcast, and Ilook forward to doing some great
things to help the industry with
Kyla Tuori (27:20):
you. Absolutely.
Well book it right now.
Nan Wilkinson (27:23):
Sounds good.
Sounds good. Thank you so muchagain for being with us.
Kyla Tuori (27:27):
Thank you so much.
Hi, everyone.
Welcome back to restaurantradio. My guest today is Kyla
Tuori, she is the chef atUnilever and heads up the fair
kitchen movement. Welcome to ourpodcast today.
Kyla Tuori (00:15):
Nan, thank you so much for having me. I'm very
excited about this. And also younailed the pronunciation of my
last name. Yes, I always worryabout that. It's so important.
So yeah, I'm glad I got it.
That's fantastic. Well, again,thank you for being being with
us today. So I had a fewquestions and wanted to talk to
you. So tell me why Unileverstarted fair kitchens. Yeah,
(00:36):
it's, it seems really odd,right? I think one of the
questions we would get likewhat's in it for Unilever,
because, you know, you think bigmanufacturing company. And we're
associating ourselves with thismovement called fair kitchens,
which, of course, I'm the north,I'm very lucky to be one of the
North American ambassadors for.
But really, it is just that, youknow, being a huge manufacturer
(01:00):
in the industry, and seeing whatthe industry has been like. And
so many of us that I mean,that's my role is a chef with
them. But we do have a lot ofchefs and non chef roles on our
team. And they, we've alwaysunderstood that there is a
harmful side to kitchen culture,there can be a negative side to
it, and it's a little bitbroken.
(01:21):
And so knowing all of that weactually on a global scale in
2017, ended up doing a study.
And the study, of course, wastowards, you know, cooks and
chefs in different roles aroundthe world, finding out where
there was some core issues andcore problems. And it was
astounding, the numbers and thepercentages, we got back around
(01:45):
chefs that we're feelingfatigued to the point of
breaking depression, addiction.
I mean, the things that we knew,we know, but to actually see
those numbers. Right. Very,yeah. Very rattling, as you can
imagine. Well, oh, that was 2017to I mean, take put the pandemic
(02:08):
through, you know, put everybodythrough the pandemic, and I'm
sure it would be even worse, ifyou did that. Yeah, absolutely.
And, I mean, it was it wasinteresting, too, because, you
know, okay, so this is happeningin 2017. We're like, what can we
do? You know, what, like, let'suse what we do have as resources
as this big company to try tomake a change for good. And,
(02:31):
and then in 2018, our industrywas shook up again. I mean, not
that it's not constantly, butthere was a lot of very, like,
media facing public cheffigures,
where we saw, you know, storiesof addiction, and definitely
suicide, and it was know what,like, this needs to be
(02:52):
addressed. This is now morepublic than ever. And we need to
kind of take that and do what wecan. So essentially, that's why
Unilever was involved. It is theface it is my favorite part of
my job, as well is working withtheir kitchens. Well good for
Unilever. And for y'all for fordoing that. Because, as you
(03:15):
said, it is a problem. To me.
It's, it's why
Nan Wilkinson (03:21):
the whole culture and I you know, I call it toxic,
I don't know if that's the bestword to use. But to me, it's the
number one reason that we'reshort on people in this
industry. And this has beengoing on for a long time, as you
said, You guys looked at it at2017. And I think the
hospitality the restaurantindustry, is, if you were to
look at, like you said substanceabuse it is of all the different
(03:43):
industries. I think it's got thehighest I believe, I know it has
at some point and I don't knowif it's all addiction or what
but anyway, yeah, I mean, it's,there's so many different
things. And you know, thepressure sometimes can be fun,
and sometimes it's justpressure, you know, working in a
kitchen, especially in the backof the house. So good on y'all
(04:04):
for doing this. That's, that'sgreat. So tell me a little bit
so you you guys see the need? Sowhat is fair kitchens movement
about like, what is thegrassroots of what y'all are
trying to do?
Kyla Tuori (04:15):
Yeah, um, so I mean, it's, it's also in the name is,
of course to make every kitchena fair kitchen. But it is about
making a change on that globalscale. So it's like 17 million
restaurants around the world.
I'm sure that number wasprobably different now post, but
a lot of making healthier andhappier workplaces and the
(04:37):
industry as a whole. And ofcourse, that encapsulates a huge
variety of different areasbecause health and happiness are
impacted by every single thingthat we do.
And doing that by creatingawareness. Having open dialogue,
(04:59):
connecting People and alsosupplying resources and tools is
what fair kitchens is reallyabout. So it's how can we make
that change? But it's it's verysimilar to what you're doing.
You know, and, you know, I'm soglad that we've connected
because this is a big thing,right? Trying to change a
(05:19):
culture that is so embedded.
Yeah. And it's like turning aship, but you need so many
people to be a part of it. Andit's going to be ongoing. I
don't see this as somethingthat's going to stop. That's a
constant work and change, Ithink. Yeah,
Nan Wilkinson (05:35):
no, I absolutely agree. I like that as
interesting analogy about, youknow, changing direction of a
ship. I mean, yeah, it's, it'snot going to happen, it's not
going to turn on a dime. Andit's gonna take a lot of people
to do that. So with that, Imean, I know some of the things
that y'all have done, I seeposts on social media, I see
that you guys worked with theCulinary Institute of America to
(05:55):
do this training class formanagers, which is phenomenal.
What, what other things arey'all doing to try to get the
word out and to try to make thethe differences that y'all are
providing the resources for? Howdo you mean social media,
connecting with chefs, we whatare the ways you're trying to
(06:16):
be?
Kyla Tuori (06:16):
I mean, those are, those are definitely two of the
ways. I, again, I just kind of,like I said, took over this role
as leading the movement forNorth America. So it's kind of
like I'm trying to make allthese new connections and figure
out different ways to get outthere. So of course, we have our
social medias, right, we gotcontact with think we were just
(06:39):
talking about like Facebook, andLinkedIn, and Instagram. And of
course, we have our landing pageand all that good stuff. But
it's a it's also about gettingout to where the operators are.
And, you know, partnering, ofcourse, with other organizations
and groups that have that reachand have the network is a big
(07:03):
part of it. Right. And, youknow, I think right now, too,
we're seeing a lot of kind of, Ithink post pandemic communing
within the industry, if youwill, I think a lot of people,
you know, everybody'sstruggling, we're looking for
resources, how do we get backinto things, even though things
(07:23):
are opened up now, we'reobviously been so scarred by
what has happened. But I thinkpeople are taking advantage more
of, you know, nationalconferences, and, you know,
affiliations that they can be apart of where they can network.
And I think that's how we can beinvolved more, to make people at
least aware that we're there,that we exist, and that we have
(07:45):
resources that can help them.
But then on the flip side, a bigthing for me is finding out what
cooks chefs, anybody in thehospitality industry, what do
you need that will help supportyou? How can other people learn
from what you aren't doing?
Well, you know, it's not alldoom and gloom side of things of
like, oh, you're not doing this,right. And, you know, you need
(08:07):
to be better. It's also, hey,you're doing this really well?
How do we share with otherpeople, best practices that are
out there that have healthykitchen cultures that do have a
thriving business? Because theyhave very little turnover? You
know, staff loves what they do.
So yeah, I think I touched on awhole bunch of different Yeah,
Nan Wilkinson (08:26):
no, you did. You did. And one of the questions I
was going to ask you, I thinkyou've kind of already sort of
hit a little bit on that. It'slike, do you think, like, now is
a prime time for some of thesecultural changes in the
industry? And I think you'vekind of addressed that. And I
wholeheartedly agree with you. Ithink that, as an industry,
we're coming together a littlebit more and, and, you know,
we're a hospitality industry, Ithink, you know, we're trying to
(08:48):
be more hospitable again, and,like you said, sharing what's
working for people and what'snot. And hopefully, that rising
tide will lift all the boatsbecause, you know, people love
to eat. And so there's certainlyroom for plenty of businesses
out there. And, you know, it'sinteresting, kind of a side
note, one of the things I wasthinking, helping the industry
(09:09):
and with, with help connects andtrying to help is that, you
know, sometimes there's peoplethat want other jobs, and this
is gonna sound crazy, but whatabout like work sharing? Where,
if, if you if you had a group ofrestaurants that maybe, maybe
I'm, I don't know, line cook atnight, but I would like to pick
up some extra hours and I'mwilling, you know, and you've
(09:29):
got a restaurant and you say,hey, you know, yeah, take Nan
for a couple of afternoon shiftsover here. And, you know, kind
of networking like that as welland having it so that you can
see who's willing to do youknow, kind of work sharing, if
you will, I mean, because,again, just trying to fill
everybody's needs because maybeyou don't need a full time
person but you and then thatperson knows they're going to
work with your schedule. I don'tknow. Just
Kyla Tuori (09:51):
I know. I love that idea. Because I think the other
thing that you're hitting on thehead there is the fact that
okay, One, we get to mostly getinto this industry same mostly
because we love to cook, we loveto feed people, we love to bring
people joy, we want to becreative when we can all of that
good stuff. And I think givingpeople variety, which can also
(10:14):
sometimes be lacking, as we knowfrom some jobs in the kitchen.
So that aspect, in addition tothe networking, in addition to
treating it almost like careerdevelopment, right, because
percent, yes, it Yeah. So veryrare that people move into. And
this is something actually thatwe're trying to address with
(10:37):
some surveys, which I know thatyou you and I had talked about
earlier, some some surveys thatwe put out there, and I can go
into more detail with those thatare listening on what exactly
those are, but we're trying toreally identify for potential
employees. What's missing? Whatdo they what do they look for
(10:57):
when they are looking for a job?
What is not currently out in theindustry, and I think part of
that is career pathing is not100% 100%.
Nan Wilkinson (11:07):
And even even if you step back from career
pathing because I'm sure you andI both know plenty of people
that have started out asdishwashers who ended up running
a kitchen or owning their ownplace. But, but even stepping
back from that, and you know,not everybody's maybe wants to
be the head of a kitchen or owntheir own restaurant or, but
just, I think just looking atthe employees as a whole and
(11:31):
seeing how you can show that youwant to give them value to what
they're doing. And anothernetworking thing that I thought
would be so cool. And I gotsomething set up on my website
that shows us, but is again,let's say you and I have a
restaurant in town, and you areItalian, and I'm whatever
Mexican. And what if I said hey,man, I'm gonna have each each
(11:55):
month on a Tuesday, a slow dayfrom two to three, anyone the
restaurant can come in, andwe're gonna have a guest chef
come in and show you some newdishes that we can prepare, and
that can be the waitstaff orwhatever, and just have ways to
invest again in people to showthem new things and to do a
training. I mean, it doesn'teven have to be it doesn't it
(12:16):
can it would be great if it wasa career path or training that
was grandiose, but it could justbe something simple, like, what
would you guys like to see, I'mgonna have Kyla, come in. And
she's going to show us how tomake this Italian dish or this
mother sauce or whatever theheck it is. Yeah. And you do you
get to meet other people. Andit's, it's fun, and it's
interactive, and it makes us acommunity and you're showing
(12:39):
that, again, you're trying toinvest in their future and
training them and teaching themsomething. And people can do
that across the board, any sizerestaurant, wherever for free. I
mean, you can you can provideresources that don't have to be
expensive or fancy, to showpeople that you care about them
(13:00):
and that they your your paypaying time and attention to
what might matter to them.
Kyla Tuori (13:05):
It's it's it's interesting, because I know that
you and I are both also familiarwith corporate, corporate
business, corporate side ofthings. And it's almost like we
need to take some of our bestpractices that have been really
hold on in that industry andapply them to a certain extent,
to the hospitality industry.
Yeah, as opposed to sometimesfeeling like it's the wild west
(13:28):
out there. And we're justgetting by and, you know, it's
planning and engaging with thestaff and having people feel
like they're involved in thattheir opinions matter, and that
what they do matters. And, youknow, we've been seeing some
great examples from some of thechefs that have shared with us,
you know, what they do in theirkitchens around, you know, team
(13:49):
building, and it doesn't alwayshave to be, you know, going out
for drinks when your shift isdone, right. But it can be, you
know, like going bowling withyour team, or, you know, just
doing regular check ins which weactually at Pier kitchens, we do
have some, some tools andresources around and around
checking in with your team. So,you know, to make that a little
(14:15):
bit easier and kind ofguardrails if you haven't had
those types of conversationsbefore. Again, I think it's,
it's that closeness and, ofcourse, that is going to make
for a happier team and thereforea more successful team and
hopefully less turnover.
Nan Wilkinson (14:34):
Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head to
just the professionalism of theway we're looking at our
employees. And for I mean,everything from a dishwasher.
Again, somebody can be hired asa dishwasher, maybe that's all
they want to do. Or you'd say,Look, this is where you'll
start. And this is again, thecareer path so that they can see
(14:56):
that there's more to it thanthat and we can keep people in
the end St instead of theturnover and the losing people,
and we can attract people backinto the industry, because I
mean, so many people who aren'teven in the industry know about
the toxicity in this industry.
And if we don't start changingthat, we're going to stay where
we are, or it's going to getworse. Like he said, It's gonna
(15:17):
take a while. But thatprofessionalism, I think, is, is
definitely a big key to it aswell. And just looking at it,
like a like a profession. Yeah.
So yeah, this is these are greatconversations. So as you engaged
people, how has it beenreceived? I mean, there are
people like, oh, yeah, this isgreat. And we need this or like,
(15:40):
Yeah, I mean, what's thereception been? I think
Kyla Tuori (15:45):
I do the site, because, you know, everybody
neatly knows, you know, yes, weshould make the industry a
better place and good place. Noteverything's great. You know,
where I actually tend to seesome of the divide. This is a
(16:05):
two parter is that it's, it'sthe older generation, okay, of
chefs, that they really grew upin the old school brigade
system, where it was, you justhad to put up with stuff. That's
(16:26):
the sweet you had to do to getby. So I'm not even talking
about, you know, areas like fairwages, or scheduling or parental
leave, I'm talking about justhow people are treated, how
mental health and abuse andaddiction are within the
kitchen, there's definitely anold school mentality. And I,
(16:49):
that has been a little bittricky. Knock, again, that they
don't realize that there's, youknow, good things that need to
happen. I think that's partthough, that resistance is
partially I think, what'sholding up some of the change. I
think that the youngergeneration, expect something
much different, which is alsowhy we're seeing huge exodus
from the industry. Right. And Ithink the best way that we're
(17:15):
going to do this, and you knowwhat, maybe we didn't always
approach it the right way. Ormaybe it didn't come across
always the right way. But Ithink again, it's about
celebrating what people aredoing well, and not making
people feel as though they'rewrong, or that they're doing
something bad. I think, youknow, kind of being more on the
positive side of it, and thenshowing the benefit to the
(17:37):
business. Right. Yeah. Becausewe know, there's some restaurant
owners, but I guess I mean, it'swe're in the business to make
money. Right? You, right?
Everybody is? Yeah, exactly. Andsometimes that's the priority
for some people at all costs.
And I think it's just showingthe benefit of that human cost.
(18:00):
And how a change for the betterwill also help their business.
Does that? Yeah, yeah. No,
Nan Wilkinson (18:11):
absolutely. And I, you know, I think that, you
know, it feels like to me, withthe whole wage peace of things
people like, oh, you know,they're just throwing, you know,
a bandaid on something. And tobe sure, I know, it's hard on
the businesses, but the wageshave been pretty awful. And,
(18:31):
again, at the very bottom of thetotem pole are restaurant and
hospitality workers, as far asindustry is, at least in the
United States. And so itdefinitely needed to be
addressed. But that's, to me,that's a band aid, not even a
band aid, like that should justbe like a given like, yeah, pay
(18:51):
people a fair wage, right. Andso after that is really the hard
work of looking at the industry,or at your specific business and
say, what more can I do? What isit that people, like you were
saying, what do they need? Whatare they looking for, to want to
stay here more long term? I wastalking to somebody who's in HR
for Hotel Group, and she wastalking about the people that
(19:15):
she was hiring and what she waspaying, and she said to me, she
said, I wouldn't work for that.
I thought, Well, I mean, notonly would you not work for
that, but probably that wage isnot even don't worry about
living wage, like actually, it'sprobably not even a wage that
somebody can really afford tolive on. And so you just kind of
shake your head and go, well,good luck. You know, like, do
(19:38):
you want to know why you don'thave people? Well, there you go.
And you take that and then youyou know, you try to fix that
piece and then you go okay, butthen your managers like you
said, are our crap you don'ttreat people well or you know, I
think in the industry, we'vekind of wanted to think of
ourselves as badass as and youknow, That's great, right?
(19:59):
That's that's one thing. Butbeing a being that is doesn't
mean you have to be a jerk.
Kyla Tuori (20:06):
Yeah, you can be bad ass and lead a team with
compassion and respect andinclusivity I don't think that
yeah. It's, um, I was justthinking too about, you know,
you look at other industries,like, think about the tech
industry, and they're trying toattract, you know, younger
(20:27):
generation, etc, etc. And lookat all the perks. Yeah. Right.
And it's like, why does that notexist in our industry? Yeah. And
it doesn't even need to besomething grandiose. No, you
know,
Nan Wilkinson (20:41):
right. Yeah.
Yeah, I know, I agree. Andagain, sometimes you just have
to think outside the box. Again,if you've got this community of
restaurants, I say, hey, Kyla,I'd love to share five $20 gift
certificates to your place. AndI'll give you five of mine. And
let's give them out as whateverlike you. I mean, whatever you
want to do, but, you know, youcan say, job well done. Here's,
you know, $20 gift certificateto kylus place or, I mean, we
(21:05):
have ways that we can do thingsthat really don't have to cost
much or any money, but you dohave to think outside the box a
little bit. And I think thatit's just high time we do that.
Kyla Tuori (21:19):
Absolutely. And I it's a what you brought up the
leadership training earlier. AndI just kind of want to briefly
briefly explain it. Because Idon't know if whoever whoever's
listening to this will have willknow exactly what it is. Great.
Yeah, please do. So it is ourleadership training. And it's
(21:41):
not actually it's not just forpeople that are currently in a
leadership position. It reallycould be for anybody. And it
could be front of house back ofhouse. I mean, that's what
Nan Wilkinson (21:48):
I tell everybody.
By the way. I said as a don'tjust have your leaders have it
till everybody take it. Soeverybody's on the same page.
And it was with the leaderstrying to facilitate so yes, go
ahead. Sorry.
Kyla Tuori (22:01):
No, no, please. I mean, because you've also looked
at the training, right. So like,your insights into it, I think
are phenomenal. And I mean, italso shows, you know, we go back
to career pathing, if somebodythat's not currently in a
leadership position, then doesthis and it's something they can
put on their resume. I mean,that is a great way to help
identify people that you do wantto promote, like, hey, they are
(22:24):
interested, they are takingsteps. So the leadership
training courses, of course,because everything's online, is
virtual online, available toanybody in the world for free.
And it is, well 830 minutemodules. One of the modules is
(22:44):
an intro. So you know, I don'twant to be too misleading here.
But they are short modules. Soyou know, you can do one at a
time, like one a week orwhatever fits your schedule,
which is the lovely thing. Yeah.
And each of the modules reallyhones in and has, you know,
expert advice, best practiceswith regards to different areas
(23:05):
that are key for managing a teamin a really good way. And so
we're talking about diversityand inclusion and mental health,
conflict resolution, best hiringpractices. So having that and
doing the assessment at the end,then you get a certification
(23:28):
from the Culinary Institute ofAmerica. So
Nan Wilkinson (23:33):
it's so cool.
That's so cool. Yes. So I almostwent to the CIA. And I thought,
Okay, this is my way to getsomething from the CIA with my
resume, look, I've got know thatit's really cool. Except for the
guys went to Johnson and Walesare a little bit like what but
anyway, I digress. And Waleswill do something with you, too,
right. Come on, bring it on. Oh,no, it's fantastic. I like so I
(23:55):
think it's great. It's a I needto I need to push it more for
people. So thank you all fordoing that.
Kyla Tuori (24:07):
I, you know what, and it's an ongoing process, of
course, because there's alwayslike, you know, I said earlier,
there's always going to besomething for us to address,
right? Because that's just life.
And you know, there's going tobe more modules to add, there's
more learnings to be had. Butthat's the beautiful thing about
it right, is we're kind of justcontinue to grow, continue to
(24:30):
evolve. And we'll see where wego. Right.
Nan Wilkinson (24:36):
Well, I certainly appreciate Unilever and y'all
and the fair kitchens movement,because again, we were primed.
This is the time to I thinkreally see some major changes. I
think it's it's sort of outthere for the taking, if you
will, and we just need to getthe word out and bring more
people together because there'spower in numbers and yeah, I'm
(24:58):
excited about the future. thinkit's gonna take a while, like
you said, but I'm really excitedabout trying to excite the
industry and get some new peopleback in and see if we can get
this. Get us going again and getsome fire and joy and fun going
again in this industry.
Kyla Tuori (25:14):
I'm with you. I feel very optimistic. Because we just
can't We can't be without arestaurant industry. Yeah, I saw
a comment. I love readingcomments and things. And this
guy had said, like, oh, whateverrestaurants are closing, you
don't need that many. And I'mlike, Oh, we live under a rock.
(25:35):
Like, it's part of our culture.
It is thriving industry. So Ifeel good because we need it.
It's the
Nan Wilkinson (25:43):
it's the most primitive thing. Food and
sharing. And yeah, absolutely.
We're in the best industry. Andthat person was just wrong.
Kyla Tuori (25:54):
Yeah, like I said, he, you know, he probably had
access to the internet for oneday, and just like lives in a
cave somewhere. So yeah,exactly. No, and,
Nan Wilkinson (26:02):
you know, and I, I am really proud of our
industry, it's, you know, asalways, has been a very
resilient industry. And I haveseen some amazing restaurants
come through this pandemic. Andjust with flying colors, really,
and, you know, they kind of theypivoted, and they're like, Okay,
what are we going to do? I mean,you know, they are, they are an
industry where people kind of,you know, you have to react
(26:24):
quickly to things. It's not aslow paced i Let's talk about I
mean, you know, they're anaction group. And so I'm really
proud of everybody, and allthey've done to get through
this. It's, it has been, it'sbeen tough. And I'm excited to
see what I can do and what fairkitchens and others can do to
help elevate them, keep themgoing and excite new people to
(26:46):
come into our industry.
Kyla Tuori (26:48):
Absolutely. And I just want to say to Nan, like,
thank you for what you're doing.
I know, it's another full timejob, but because it's you love
it. And I think that what you'reputting out there is can be a
huge help. I know that because Iknow what your future plans are,
too, which will be an amazinghelp to the industry. So I
Nan Wilkinson (27:08):
hope so. Yeah. I appreciate it. I hope so will
kind of like thank you so much.
I know that I'm I'm hoping youat some point will be back with
me again on the podcast, and Ilook forward to doing some great
things to help the industry with
Kyla Tuori (27:20):
you. Absolutely.
Well book it right now.
Nan Wilkinson (27:23):
Sounds good.
Sounds good. Thank you so muchagain for being with us.
Kyla Tuori (27:27):
Thank you so much.
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