April 16, 2024 • 40 mins
Have you ever stood at life’s crossroads, wondering if it's too late to reinvent yourself? Jamie Harris joins us in a heart-to-heart conversation, sharing her courageous transition after her divorce that led her to a new city, a newfound independence, and a rediscovery of self. Our conversation weaves through the challenges and triumphs of starting anew as an empty nester, unearthing the power of solitude, and the tenacity it takes to rebuild a life from the ground up.
We wind up the conversation with Jamie's decision to make a major change in her life to fulfill her dream of working as a chalk and collage artist.
Thank you for listening.
Be sure to visit the Restless to Renewed website for pictures and more information about episode guests at www.RestlesstoRenewed.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice (00:39):
Hello everyone, welcome to Restless, to Renewed Women,
redefining Midlife and Beyond.
I'm Janice Neely, your host,and today my guest is Jamie
Harris.
I had the pleasure of meetingJamie a few weeks ago when she
inquired about my coaching work.
As we talked, I became veryfascinated with the next steps
(00:59):
she plans to take in her life.
Jamie, thank you for being heretoday.
I love your story and I thinkour listeners will too.
So how are you?
Jamie (01:09):
Hey, Janice, thank you for having me.
I'm doing well.
I'm in a transition periodbetween two jobs, so I've had
off this week and I'm doing good, and I'm excited about talking
with you and sharing about whatI've got planned in the next
several months.
Janice (01:26):
I think there's going to be people that will identify
with you and they will enjoythis conversation as much as I
enjoyed the other day when wespoke.
So let's just go ahead and getstarted.
So about your story, I know youlive alone and you are
self-supporting.
Has it always been that way orhave you made changes there?
Jamie (01:46):
No, it has not.
I married my high schoolsweetheart when I was 20 years
old.
We were married for 20 yearsand we have three children
together.
But I am an empty nester, Iguess you could say now have
been for a couple of years, butI was the homemaker and he was
the breadwinner for those 20years, and so that was a huge
(02:11):
change to suddenly be on my ownand still having a couple of
kids at home and figuring outwhat it looks like to be a
single person and having tonavigate all of the pieces of
financing and support and justall the pieces.
It's a lot.
Janice (02:32):
I'm thinking your marriage ended correct.
Jamie (02:34):
It did.
We divorced about eight yearsago.
So yes, I've been single foreight years, OK.
Janice (02:40):
And you're 48 now.
Jamie (02:42):
I am.
Janice (02:44):
You're still a youngster .
Jamie (02:46):
I appreciate that I don't always feel that way.
Well, to me you are.
Janice (02:52):
But there's still plenty of time, yeah, plenty.
So right now you've been onyour own, you said, for eight
years.
And what has it been like foryou?
I know you spoke about yourjobs and your finances and what
it's like, even your personallife.
Jamie (03:19):
You know it's hard and yet it's a both and.
I kind of look at life that way, as a both and and, so I can do
what I want, go where I want.
Basically that's been reallygood, but it has been a
challenge and you know, whenyou're in a marriage, in a
partnership, you have somebodyelse there to navigate decisions
(03:42):
with.
In our case, like I said, hewas the breadwinner.
He supported us.
He handled all of those piecesthat I had no idea about.
He did our taxes, I mean all ofthose financial aspects.
I was like I'm over here takingcare of the kids.
That's my realm.
He seems content to take careof that.
I'm fine, but that's a piecethat typically tends to stress
(04:05):
me out and I'm not like anover-anxious person, but that's
one of those pieces that wasreally hard.
So, just knowing that, I didn'thave that backup, and so I have
had a few jobs in the lasteight years.
Like I said, initially I stillhad two children at home and I
was still the primary caregiver.
So what's it look like now toalso need to get a job and still
(04:30):
be the primary caregiver andget them where they need to be
and making sure they're takencare of.
And OK, where are we going tolive now?
Because we lived on family land, we built a home next to my
parents, and so it's just a lotof pieces.
I mean, I have a great supportsystem and really sweet people
in my life that I can talk to,but when it comes down to it,
(04:53):
the decisions that I make, Imake alone, and so you know,
when it was with my children athome, okay, I have got to find a
house and I have got to findwhat's going to be the best area
for us to be in and then to buya house, which that was really
cool and really scary at thesame time.
To buy a house on my own, butthat's huge.
These are just hugeresponsibilities, and so I think
(05:17):
that those kinds of things havebeen the biggest challenge.
You get accustomed to beingalone, and I have said that I
had to make friends withaloneness and that's different
than loneliness, so I'm prettygood with that now.
I like being on my own scheduleand kind of coming and going as
(05:39):
I want, but I think, justknowing that there's really not
a backup or what will be yourbackup when you face huge
challenges.
I grew up in Georgia and threeyears ago moved to Nashville and
was like, all right, that'swhere I'm supposed to go and
what I want to do, and I knowthat it's right.
And the Lord just opened thedoors wide open, but that's
(06:02):
still scary.
You're jumping and you don'treally feel like you have a
safety net.
Janice (06:07):
Right, I can't imagine yeah.
I've been married, my wholelife just about, so that would
be really hard to just go onyour own.
You told me that for years youhave dreamed of becoming an
artist, and was that always yourdream?
(06:28):
I mean, were you dreaming thatwhen you were a child or a young
woman?
Jamie (06:33):
I was.
It's always been a part of me.
I grew up just loving to draw.
My grandmother used to draw andshe was real creative and
crafty and she did a lot ofcross stitch and things like
that.
But she would just give me anotebook and a pen and just tell
me to draw, and so it's alwaysbeen a part of me and I loved it
(06:57):
.
I loved art.
It was really the only thing inschool that I enjoyed.
That's what I wanted to pursue,other than being a mom.
That was it.
I want to be a mom more thananything, but if I have to do
something to make a living andjust what would be meaningful
and fulfilling, and it was to bean artist, so it's always been
(07:20):
there.
Janice (07:21):
Is there anything that's hindered you or kept you from
following your dream?
Jamie (07:25):
Yeah, I think mostly me.
But in high school I loved artand I thought well, I can go to
art school.
I didn't really love school anddidn't really want to go to
college in a traditional sense.
I didn't really want to be ateacher or anything.
I just was like I'm going to doart and I didn't know what that
(07:47):
would look like or how wouldthat support myself.
But I had an art teacher.
I told her I think I want to goto art school and she looked me
square in the face and she saidoh, you won't fit in, you're
too normal.
And so that was kind ofcrushing.
I'm a teenager, I'm trying sohard to fit in.
(08:10):
We don't feel like we everreally fit in those years, and
the only thing that makes mefeel happy really or that's how
I felt is art.
And you're going to tell me I'mtoo normal and I shouldn't do
it.
Janice (08:26):
I hope that that art teacher said that in jest and
maybe you didn't pick up on it.
She was serious.
Well, I would think in the artindustry or as artists.
There's all kinds of people.
Jamie (08:39):
There are.
But when you're 17, 18 yearsold, and even since then in
adulthood, it it's like oh mygosh, why would you even say
that to a kid?
We're supposed to beencouraging you?
Help me figure out how to makethis happen.
If I'm gifted in it and I wasand I am, I don't mean that as a
boast, it's just I've reallyhad to work hard to settle in
and accept that part of myself.
(09:09):
So that really has been thebiggest hindrance, not feeling
like it was valuable and that itwasn't a little hobby kind of
thing.
I was a wife and a mom and Iwas raising kids and running
around, and now i in no wayimply that they were a hindrance
.
They weren't.
They are my greatest joy.
But you just get busy in lifeand I really didn't have a lot
of support in my marriage to beartistic and to go forward and
(09:35):
to pursue that.
I did bring it in in differentways and tried with my children
different things in my home.
Even there I wasn't supportedand I wasn't encouraged.
So that's where it was likewell, if I go, spend the time
out in an art room and I dideventually have an art room, but
I was like I should be in thehouse doing this.
(09:55):
I should be getting ready fordinner.
Janice (09:58):
Especially if you don't feel like you're bringing in
income, then we consider it notvaluable.
But a lot of times things arevaluable to us because it helps
our psyche.
Jamie (10:11):
Right right, and I didn't really tap into that for all
those years.
It was just let's take care ofwhat everybody needs, and maybe
one day there'll be time for it,and it was just that kind of
thing.
Like I said, it was just alittle hobby.
It's just not something youjust really spend time on.
Janice (10:30):
I know, as mothers we often think if we do things like
that, we're taking away fromour children's time, and so you
start to become the martyr.
You know, I got to doeverything for my kids and I
don't think I ever begrudged itreally, but I do think that I
could have pursued some thingsand I didn't just because I
thought, like you said, there'llbe time.
Jamie (10:52):
Probably about 15 years ago, I did start going to some
black light chalk art classes.
Every year for about eightyears I would do that and come
home and I would draw inchurches here and there, but
there again it wasn't like, oh,I've got a drawing coming up, so
(11:13):
let me go out there for threedays before I'm supposed to go
do this presentation and I'llstay up all night and I'll work
on it and then, okay, it's overand it's done and now let's go
back to life.
But all of my children arecreative in their own way and
artistic.
But if I saw anything like that, I really wanted to encourage
it in them.
So I think that's interestinghow we can have something in us
(11:35):
that we won't pursue or fightfor in ourselves.
But it's like oh, but I wantthat for you, I want you to have
that and I want you to knowthat it matters, that it's
important.
I want you to feel like you canpursue it.
Janice (11:47):
Yeah, and hopefully most parents would want their
children to have what they wantin life.
You know, that doesn't meanthere can't be bumps and things
like that as you go along.
But I want them to do what theydo well and be happy in it.
I get that.
So the children are raised, andI think you said you were
working two jobs recently tojust make your ends meet.
(12:11):
Is that accurate?
Yes, it is.
That's part of being single andbeing self-supporting and there
was a time when I didn't haveto do that.
Part of that is because there'sbeen times where I didn't
manage things as well.
But then also our economy.
(12:32):
It's just not great and it'shard.
And when rent keeps going upand groceries keep going up and
everything just keeps going up,it's just hard.
So I think that's part of meknowing that I'm going to have
to get a second job just tocover the basic things.
(12:53):
And that started in January.
I'd really been trying to putit off even from last summer.
Last summer it was like I knowI'm gonna have to do a second
job and I really tried to put itoff as long as I could.
But I bit the bullet in January.
So basically, that meant that you had less time to
(13:15):
pursue your dreams becauseyou're working so many hours,
and so I know the other day,when we talked, you came up with
an idea on how you might make ashift that would allow you to
pursue your dream of being anartist.
(13:36):
So I've been struggling withthat for several months and I
also had really been wrestlingwith purpose, like what was I
made for and what am I supposedto be doing with my life?
I had a really sweet job Iworked for a church and I have
an amazing team and staff andmade such sweet friends but
(14:02):
really struggling, being reallyfrustrated and feeling stuck.
And I finally came to thisplace of I'm not stuck unless I
choose to be and what do I want.
And about two years ago it wasin between jobs I had a back
injury and the job that I hadwhen I moved to Tennessee it was
actually an artistic job.
It was for the skate game and Iworked in the shop and in the
(14:23):
paint and scenic department.
But it was a very physicallydemanding job and it caused a
back issue.
For two months I was out ofwork and in that time I remember
just trusting that the Lord wasgoing to provide.
I didn't know what it was goingto look like, but I remember
coming to the place okay, Lord,if I could do anything, what
(14:45):
would it be and what would youmake me to do?
And it was that I would make myliving as an artist and I would
use art in a therapeutic way tohelp people, and so in these
last several months that hasreally been coming up again and
I think that had been part of myfrustration, because it was
(15:08):
like, well, I don't know how tomake that happen.
And.
Jamie (15:10):
I've got to have a job, and that's when I went on staff
at the church and that was sucha sweet blessing.
And so a few months ago, as Iwas wrestling, it was like, okay
, I'm frustrated all the time.
I'm just starting to beresentful, and that's nobody's
fault, it's me, because I'm notdoing what I need to do and I
(15:34):
don't have to be stuck unless Ichoose to be, and I need to
right my ship.
And what does that look likeand what are the things that are
holding me back?
And so, financially, there's Ihave a little bit of debt.
It's not extensive, butpersonally.
It's more than I want to have.
I don't want to have any.
Like I said that all thosethings are just continue to go
(15:54):
up and it's like what am Ipaying for?
And so you made a change inyour mind and you stated that
that you're going to dosomething that most of us would
never think of doing.
It's exciting yes, and it's not just, oh, let me just
(16:16):
decide to do this.
But looking at those aspects ofwhat's killing me and what do I
need to do, and financially,what's holding me back, that's
where the second job comes in.
I'm never going to get to whereI want to be if I'm doing the
same thing.
But you can't just keep doingthe same thing and expect a
different outcome.
So, looking at just housing andthose kind of things in this
(16:41):
economy and in this sweet citythat I love so much and so
thankful to be here, I decidedthat I am going to convert my
van Dory, as I lovingly refer toher, and I'm going to live in
her for a while, because, forone, I love my van.
(17:05):
I laugh and joke with people.
When something happens to her,I'm gonna grieve hard.
I've had that van for 10 years.
We've been through a lot,that's why I call her Dory.
She's got some dings and she'snot near as pretty as she used
to be, but she just keepsswimming and just keeps going.
I joke, and some of the bestsleep I get is taking a nap in
(17:28):
that car when I just let my seatback.
And so, yeah, I've decided thatI'm going to do that and that's
going to save a tremendousamount of money.
It's going to allow me to getmy debt paid off much quicker
than I would normally, and itfeels like that's what needs to
(17:49):
happen to get me going in thedirection that I want to go in.
And it gives me hope.
I feel hopeful and excitedabout the future because I feel
like I'm not just stuck.
I do have a plan and this iswhat needs to happen to get me
(18:10):
where I want to be, or where Ithink I want to be.
I feel like I have a vision formy life and for my future, but
I mean, it's the Lord's and he'sgoing to direct it, but it is
still in keeping with what Ifeel like he's shown me and how
he's leading me so far.
Janice (18:26):
So you're planning to move into your van.
When we talked the other day,we talked about a timeline and I
don't know if you've made anyshifts in that, but from what I
understood, the possibility ismoving into it by next fall.
Jamie (18:43):
September.
My lease is up September 10.
And so my middle daughter is incollege in Arizona and she'll
be home this summer and soreally in mid August, I need to
be be prepared because I'll takeher back.
We do a road trip to Arizona totake her back to college, so
when I get back I'm gonna needto be ready to transition into
(19:07):
minivan life, and so that's mytimeline.
Right now I'm kind of chompingat the bit.
There's things that I want todo, but I am busy.
I don't have the hands-on partyet because I've been doing a
lot of research, watching lotsof the minivan videos, and when
(19:30):
I have a question about justelectrical or storage or just
set up, I'm trying to look thosethings up and get reviews, see
what other people have done,thinking through how I want mine
to be set up.
What do I want to spend gettingmy budget set up, just kind of
(19:52):
dreaming what I want it to looklike and then going, okay, you
know what this is, what I wouldlove and how I want it to be set
up and how I want it to lookand budget wise and practically.
Can I achieve that in the timethat I have between two jobs?
Janice (20:07):
Well, hopefully you won't have that an extra job
once you get moved into Dory.
Jamie (20:12):
Yeah.
Janice (20:13):
Who knows?
Jamie (20:13):
Not for long at least.
I don't know.
We'll see.
I'm starting a new job nextweek.
I'm really super excited aboutthat, and I also work at Trader
Joe's part-time and it's reallyfun.
So I don't want to have twojobs but at the same time it's
like ooh.
But I'm really going to enjoywhat I'm doing.
That's going to be hard, but II don't know.
I'll worry about that afterSeptember.
Janice (20:35):
Well, shout out to Trader Joe's because you said
you love it there.
Jamie (20:40):
I do.
Sorry, I hope I could say thatI don't know why you can't say
you love working there.
Janice (20:44):
I can't imagine anybody being upset about that, okay.
So I'm thinking minivan notjust to survive.
Maybe you'll thrive in there,Right?
So what is your plan forshowering and cooking and doing
your laundry and things likethat?
Jamie (21:04):
I have friends that say come take a shower at my house,
or you can come park here, oryou can come over and do laundry
.
So many people that step intovan life do it because they want
to travel and so they're havingto figure out a lot of
(21:26):
logistics along the way.
I'm not really going to betraveling for a while, but just
around in this area.
I have that benefit of placeswhere I can go and take a shower
and that kind of thing.
Planet Fitness, yes, if I can,for whatever reason can't get to
(21:46):
my friend's house or mydaughter's house or whatever.
There's Planet Fitness and Iknow a lot of people who live in
their vans.
That's what they do.
They have Planet Fitnessmemberships because you can go
to any of them.
Oh my gosh, they're so clean,they're nice.
You go in, you get in a massagechair, you can exercise,
whatever.
And then there's laundromats.
I can go in an hour and washall of my clothes and dry
(22:08):
everything, and everything'sgetting washed all at once.
And then everything is driedall at once and I'm done and
I've been able to take a littlebreak.
And then, as far as cooking,there are different options with
that, depending on my powersource, there's hot plates, a
lot of vanners do.
(22:29):
The little propane stoves yeah,it's been researching that.
It's like did I want like alittle Coleman stove?
You know there's a lot.
You can do with a teapotelectric teapot, yeah, yes, and
I have one.
I have a tea kettle and so I'llhave that.
That's hot water right there.
That's going to cover a lot.
And if I do the hot plate witha little burner, you know I can
boil water there too to cook in.
(22:51):
I have little frying pan.
So there's a lot of researchand I'm trying to be really good
about that and look up thosethings.
But then too, that aspect ofnot having such financial
constraints, because I'll besaving.
Janice (23:09):
So are you having any fears about the living in the
van?
Jamie (23:16):
I don't know that.
I have fear, really Justknowing that it's going to be an
adjustment and you know,anytime you have transition,
even when it's good, there'salways that anxiety of what's
this going to be, oranticipating.
Right now I'm thinking aboutwhere am I going to park, but I
feel safe in the options that Ihave, but I think it's more just
(23:37):
the what's it actually going tolook like and I think it will
be fun and I think there's goingto be so many things that I do
enjoy about it and there's a lotof things that I'm looking
forward to, like.
I am looking forward to nothaving an apartment that I have
to come home and clean every day, that I have to come home and
clean every day.
Janice (23:57):
So when you get moved in , there's the possibility that
you might not need to work bothjobs, and so we talked the other
day about that, freeing you upsome to start dabbling into art
or into the art world again, andmaybe really not just dabble,
(24:17):
but throw yourself right into ityeah.
So how do you feel about that?
Are you exhilarated?
Do you have fears?
Is it all sounding good to you?
Jamie (24:28):
I'm excited about it, I'm hopeful and I do think about
the time management piece and,again, just really not letting
those old thoughts hold me backLike am I good enough?
I don't have the art degree orall these different pieces, but
I'm really more excited about it.
(24:50):
I'm excited to jump into mediumsthat I haven't really got to
pursue and with my new job thatI'm starting, I'll be working
for an organization startingpoint advocacy and turning point
charities and they're reallyprecious to me because they walk
with women through the divorceprocess and divorce trauma and
(25:13):
crisis, and it's the divorcecares in the midst of it, and
that was something that Idesperately needed, even though
I had people who loved me,supported me.
Just like I said, those piecesthat you don't think about
finances and taxes and all ofthese different things, logistic
pieces that you may not haveknown about and so that's what
(25:33):
this organization does.
I'm super excited about beingwith them and I'm hoping to
start adding art to the supportgroup.
That's something we want tostart getting going for women
who've come through theorganization already and ones
that are currently in it, and soI have talked to my new boss
(25:54):
about that and even had itwritten into my contract that
anything that I develop artisticand therapeutic wise like that,
that that's mine.
I have ownership of it and I canuse it outside of there and
take it with me if I ever leavethem very smart yeah, they want
to protect their stuff and I wasreading through the contract
and the things that you create,your intellectual property, that
(26:17):
you create while you're withthem or develop, is theirs, and
I was okay with that, except inart.
So I talked to my boss aboutthat even before she offered me
the job and I said I really wantto do that at some point,
create some classes, sometherapeutic art classes and she
was like that would be reallygreat.
You could probably do that withour people.
(26:37):
So to go back and be able tosay I need you to write this in
because I had already talkedabout that.
It's something that I want tobe able to use and develop going
forward, not just for there,but in general, yeah, Well, on
our Restless to Renewed website,we have a section called the
(26:58):
Enrichment Studio.
Janice (27:00):
And right now it's the podcast and it is recommended
reading, and then we have a blog, but I'm hoping to add some
Facebook live trainings andmaybe you would make a maiden
voyage launch with us and teacha short 30 minute class or
something like that, and we useour audience as your practice.
Jamie (27:23):
We'll talk about that.
I'd love to do that.
Janice (27:25):
Maybe yeah.
Jamie (27:27):
As I get it developed.
I'd love to have a conversationabout it, so we'll talk about
that, okay.
Janice (27:32):
So what medium is your specialty?
Jamie (27:36):
Well, I would say chalk and collage.
Chalk because it's kind of hardfor me to say, oh, what's my
favorite or what's my specialty.
I really want to experiencemore and because I haven't
pursued more over the years,there are other things that I
want to do, but chalk, probably,and collage are two of my two
(28:02):
favorites, because I do theblack light, chalk art and and
then collage has been verytherapeutic for me and very
healing, and so I think thatcollage is probably my favorite.
But I love chalk because youliterally have your hands all in
it and so I love that.
I love the feel of the chalkand just having my hands on my
(28:23):
board.
Janice (28:24):
So are you interested in churches contacting you to do
the black light chalk?
Oh yeah, yes, I would love thatso we can also have some
information about that, maybe animage of what you do.
Jamie (28:42):
So if churches would like you to visit and do that.
Janice (28:46):
I think that would be lovely.
I've seen it done a couple oftimes and it's just amazing how
that image appears.
Jamie (28:54):
I know, and for people that haven't seen it and they
don't know, it just really haslike wow, it is really neat to
be up there and to be doing thatand to hear that.
So when people see it appear, Ijust really do love that and I
would love to be able to do it.
See, I'm not great atself-promotion, so people are
like you need to go do the butt.
(29:14):
Well, remember, I'm a marketer.
Janice (29:17):
That's what you're for.
Jamie (29:19):
So, like you need to go do the butt.
Well, remember the marketer,that's what you're for, so
that's right.
So that's why this is good,because I didn't even ask you to
mention that and you just saidit right well, that helps.
Janice (29:26):
You know, we have the collective on our website too,
where people have the listing ofwhat they do.
We could make you up a littlesection there with some
information on that too it'll beamazing yes.
So if you were able to movetoward your dream and I don't
say if you were able to, you aredoing it, but what would you
(29:46):
like your life to look like intwo years?
Jamie (29:51):
In two years I would be debt-free.
I would have a good bit ofmoney in savings by then and I
would be creating art, even ifit's not my sole livelihood.
I want to be creating.
I have ideas for artisticpieces, series that I want to do
, that I'll be intentional aboutstarting on those.
(30:13):
I'd love to be in a bigger vanby then.
I can't even say that I wouldwant to be in an apartment,
necessarily.
A tiny house really is my goal,but if I'm in an upgraded van
by then, I think I would begreat.
Janice (30:32):
People are always going I want a bigger house, so this
is amusing.
I want a bigger van.
Jamie (30:37):
Well, you know, I love it well, and here's the thing, I
know that it can becounterintuitive, but I've had
the big houses, I had all thatand I have my children, I have
my family.
But when you walk that path ofdivorce and the loss and the
(30:59):
grief and the brokenness, youjust really come to learn what
you value.
And it's different foreverybody, but for me.
I always just tell my childrenhome is wherever I am, and they
will feel that way regardless ofwhether it's a van or it's a
house or whatever.
(31:19):
But I just really don't wantthat anymore.
I just want simpler.
There are things that I veryspecifically want and I want my
time to go to things that arereally meaningful to me, like
art and family, and it's not abig house for me anymore.
Janice (31:37):
I remember when we called them the McMansions and
everybody was trying to get intoa bigger house and that was a
big push for years and years.
And when the tiny housemovement came out, it wasn't
frowned upon to have a smallerhouse and a smaller footprint as
far as the resources you'reusing yeah, electricity and
water and everything right andI'm grateful for my homes.
Jamie (32:00):
I don't ever want to come across that I'm not grateful
for that.
I'm grateful my children had abeautiful home to grow up in and
land and those kind of things,but I also remember the amount
of time that it took just tocare for it and I just want that
time to go to something moremeaningful and special and
relaxing.
(32:20):
Yeah, we've talked about thattoo.
Janice (32:23):
I watch so many people and I always think what is it
that I want?
And I always think experiencesI want to experience things.
Jamie (32:31):
Right.
Janice (32:34):
So we've talked about the financial situations and
going through your divorce andyour job and so forth.
So what advice would you giveto other women who are striving
to achieve financialindependence and
self-sufficiency?
And I'm going to say that youare making some major decisions
(32:54):
and I think they're great.
Making some major decisions andI think they're great, but how
would you tell people that it'sokay to make decisions and to
move forward?
Jamie (33:05):
I think to start off with one I'm going to say do not
depend on me for financialadvice whatsoever.
Janice (33:12):
I'm not good at that.
Jamie (33:13):
That's something that I'm learning.
I would say you need to readand figure it out and ask
questions.
I actually found out aboutTiffany Alicia, I think, is her
last name.
I heard her on another podcastand, through a series of some
bad choices when she graduatedfrom college, wound up in
extreme debt and what it lookedlike for her to get out of that.
(33:35):
You know some things similar tothe Ramsey style, but I love
listening to her because that'scoming from a woman's
perspective.
There were just things that shesaid that makes a lot of sense
to me and she just had a reallysweet story and so I'm looking
forward to really diving moreinto her advice and I would say
(33:55):
that understand that you're notstuck and that's a really hard
place to get to.
We can feel so mired downdepending on what's going on in
your life.
Like I said, I'm single, so Ido have a little more freedom in
the kind of choices that I canmake, but I think that we can
easily feel stuck and feel likewe don't have a choice and that
(34:17):
is so defeating and discouragingand you have to step back and
go.
Okay, what do I want and am Istuck?
No, what do I need to do tomove forward?
And then you have to decide areyou willing to do that?
I mean, everybody knows,nothing in life really is free.
You do have to work hard.
(34:38):
You have to think about what doI really want?
I would not tell anybody tomake rash decisions.
This wasn't a rash decision.
I feel like that's the biggestthing is thinking about what do
you want.
I am going to say if you're abeliever, if you're a Christian,
you pray about it and figureout what it is you want for your
(34:58):
life.
And if you could have anything,if you could do anything, what
would that be?
If you could make your livingdoing anything, how would you
spend your time?
And then to step back and gookay, so what do I need to do in
order to move towards that andfor me it was finances is the
biggest thing.
So how can I combat that?
(35:19):
I can do this.
Am I willing to do it?
Yep, I'm willing to do it.
I know I've got to have the twojobs.
I'm going to have to have twojobs anyway.
I want to make that work for me.
I don't want to just keepworking just to fill somebody
else's pockets and I want what Ido to be meaningful.
It needs to be meaningful to meand I feel like I'm purposeful
(35:41):
in my days and serving others.
Janice (35:43):
You've talked me into it , so I'm going to get a van.
That might not be your thingI'm thinking about.
There'll be this whole massiveamount of minivans with women
running around Nashville.
Jamie (35:56):
Hey, then we might be able to find land that we can
all like go in together and justhave a little village.
I don't know.
Janice (36:04):
Oh, you don't know how many times I've thought about
that.
Not necessarily the van, buthaving a small, tiny house,
village, and they're popping upall over, but they're more
commercialized and so yeah, I dowant that.
Jamie (36:17):
That's kind of part of my long term.
I would love to have that forespecially women to come and go
you need a break just come for aweekend, just come for a week.
You just come for respite and becared for, because I think we
all need that.
And I'm not saying men don't,but you know, as women we take
care of everybody and we tend tonot take care of ourselves.
(36:37):
So I think that's another piece.
It's OK for you to want thingsin your life and to want to be
fulfilled.
And I think about as aChristian.
We can think about life beingso hard and sometimes we can
lose the joy.
I think about the Lord saying Icame that you might have life
and have it in abundance, and itis both joy and sorrow, and
you're going to experience allkind of things.
Saying I came that you mighthave life and have it in
abundance, and it is both joyand sorrow, and you're going to
(36:58):
experience all kind of things.
But I just keep thinking I'msupposed to have joy too and I
think it's okay for me to wantto enjoy my life too.
Janice (37:08):
I wrote a blog post this last week about half glass full
and half glass empty and how Ispent most of my life half glass
empty and I'm starting to makethat switch, and so I think that
part of that half glass emptyI'm starting to make that switch
, and so I think that part ofthat was always guilt, like I'm
not supposed to be happy.
Right Because other people aresuffering, so why do?
I think I should be happy, butI'm switching my mindset.
(37:30):
So your words are inspiring andI think probably a lot of other
people will need to hear thosewords also.
Jamie (37:37):
Well, thank you well you're welcome.
I do want people to just feelencouraged and, again, like I
said, we don't have to be stuck.
You just have to figure outwhat direction are you moving in
and what steps do you need totake to get there.
You gotta be able be willing todo it.
You can't just sit back.
You gotta move forward, makesacrifices and yep, that's be
(37:57):
willing to do what needs to bedone.
Janice (37:59):
Yeah, and I firmly believe in that.
So this has been a really funconversation and for years I've
been watching people in vans andI was telling you earlier that
my mom is excited because shewatches van life and all the
women that are retiring in themand so forth.
So she's looking forward to thisand for those of you who would
(38:22):
like more information aboutJamie, we'll have pictures of
her van Dory and also I'm hoping, jamie, you'll be able to get
some inside and outside and wecan see the progress and this
summer I have another visit withyou and get the updates.
Jamie (38:38):
Yeah, I would love that.
That's additional motivation.
When you start telling people,then you become accountable for
it, so it's helpful for me.
I want to get busy because I'vegot to send pictures and people
are going to want to know aboutthis and, like I said, the
people that I've told have beenso sweet and open and pretty
much all of them have said, yeah, I can see that.
Janice (38:59):
We want the pre-pictures right now, nothing done.
Jamie (39:03):
We want it from scratch.
I can do that.
Janice (39:05):
Okay.
So anyway, like I said, you canfind out more information about
Jamie on our website,restless2renewed.
com, and I think right now I'mjust going to go ahead and
finish this up today withanother quote that I think is
appropriate for thisconversation, and then we'll
(39:25):
just be saying goodbye.
Is that okay, jamie?
That sounds good, okay.
So here is our quote this timearound Holding on is believing
that there's only a past.
Letting go is knowing thatthere's a future, and that's by
Daphne Rose Kingma.
I love that, okay.
(39:46):
Well, it made me think of youAll.
Right, everyone.
Well, we thank you and we'regoing to say goodbye.
So goodbye, jamie, goodbye.
Thank you so much for having me.
You're welcome.
You have a good rest of the day.
Jamie (40:09):
Thanks, you too.
Hello everyone, welcome to Restless, to Renewed Women,
redefining Midlife and Beyond.
I'm Janice Neely, your host,and today my guest is Jamie
Harris.
I had the pleasure of meetingJamie a few weeks ago when she
inquired about my coaching work.
As we talked, I became veryfascinated with the next steps
(00:59):
she plans to take in her life.
Jamie, thank you for being heretoday.
I love your story and I thinkour listeners will too.
So how are you?
Jamie (01:09):
Hey, Janice, thank you for having me.
I'm doing well.
I'm in a transition periodbetween two jobs, so I've had
off this week and I'm doing good, and I'm excited about talking
with you and sharing about whatI've got planned in the next
several months.
Janice (01:26):
I think there's going to be people that will identify
with you and they will enjoythis conversation as much as I
enjoyed the other day when wespoke.
So let's just go ahead and getstarted.
So about your story, I know youlive alone and you are
self-supporting.
Has it always been that way orhave you made changes there?
Jamie (01:46):
No, it has not.
I married my high schoolsweetheart when I was 20 years
old.
We were married for 20 yearsand we have three children
together.
But I am an empty nester, Iguess you could say now have
been for a couple of years, butI was the homemaker and he was
the breadwinner for those 20years, and so that was a huge
(02:11):
change to suddenly be on my ownand still having a couple of
kids at home and figuring outwhat it looks like to be a
single person and having tonavigate all of the pieces of
financing and support and justall the pieces.
It's a lot.
Janice (02:32):
I'm thinking your marriage ended correct.
Jamie (02:34):
It did.
We divorced about eight yearsago.
So yes, I've been single foreight years, OK.
Janice (02:40):
And you're 48 now.
Jamie (02:42):
I am.
Janice (02:44):
You're still a youngster .
Jamie (02:46):
I appreciate that I don't always feel that way.
Well, to me you are.
Janice (02:52):
But there's still plenty of time, yeah, plenty.
So right now you've been onyour own, you said, for eight
years.
And what has it been like foryou?
I know you spoke about yourjobs and your finances and what
it's like, even your personallife.
Jamie (03:19):
You know it's hard and yet it's a both and.
I kind of look at life that way, as a both and and, so I can do
what I want, go where I want.
Basically that's been reallygood, but it has been a
challenge and you know, whenyou're in a marriage, in a
partnership, you have somebodyelse there to navigate decisions
(03:42):
with.
In our case, like I said, hewas the breadwinner.
He supported us.
He handled all of those piecesthat I had no idea about.
He did our taxes, I mean all ofthose financial aspects.
I was like I'm over here takingcare of the kids.
That's my realm.
He seems content to take careof that.
I'm fine, but that's a piecethat typically tends to stress
(04:05):
me out and I'm not like anover-anxious person, but that's
one of those pieces that wasreally hard.
So, just knowing that, I didn'thave that backup, and so I have
had a few jobs in the lasteight years.
Like I said, initially I stillhad two children at home and I
was still the primary caregiver.
So what's it look like now toalso need to get a job and still
(04:30):
be the primary caregiver andget them where they need to be
and making sure they're takencare of.
And OK, where are we going tolive now?
Because we lived on family land, we built a home next to my
parents, and so it's just a lotof pieces.
I mean, I have a great supportsystem and really sweet people
in my life that I can talk to,but when it comes down to it,
(04:53):
the decisions that I make, Imake alone, and so you know,
when it was with my children athome, okay, I have got to find a
house and I have got to findwhat's going to be the best area
for us to be in and then to buya house, which that was really
cool and really scary at thesame time.
To buy a house on my own, butthat's huge.
These are just hugeresponsibilities, and so I think
(05:17):
that those kinds of things havebeen the biggest challenge.
You get accustomed to beingalone, and I have said that I
had to make friends withaloneness and that's different
than loneliness, so I'm prettygood with that now.
I like being on my own scheduleand kind of coming and going as
(05:39):
I want, but I think, justknowing that there's really not
a backup or what will be yourbackup when you face huge
challenges.
I grew up in Georgia and threeyears ago moved to Nashville and
was like, all right, that'swhere I'm supposed to go and
what I want to do, and I knowthat it's right.
And the Lord just opened thedoors wide open, but that's
(06:02):
still scary.
You're jumping and you don'treally feel like you have a
safety net.
Janice (06:07):
Right, I can't imagine yeah.
I've been married, my wholelife just about, so that would
be really hard to just go onyour own.
You told me that for years youhave dreamed of becoming an
artist, and was that always yourdream?
(06:28):
I mean, were you dreaming thatwhen you were a child or a young
woman?
Jamie (06:33):
I was.
It's always been a part of me.
I grew up just loving to draw.
My grandmother used to draw andshe was real creative and
crafty and she did a lot ofcross stitch and things like
that.
But she would just give me anotebook and a pen and just tell
me to draw, and so it's alwaysbeen a part of me and I loved it
(06:57):
.
I loved art.
It was really the only thing inschool that I enjoyed.
That's what I wanted to pursue,other than being a mom.
That was it.
I want to be a mom more thananything, but if I have to do
something to make a living andjust what would be meaningful
and fulfilling, and it was to bean artist, so it's always been
(07:20):
there.
Janice (07:21):
Is there anything that's hindered you or kept you from
following your dream?
Jamie (07:25):
Yeah, I think mostly me.
But in high school I loved artand I thought well, I can go to
art school.
I didn't really love school anddidn't really want to go to
college in a traditional sense.
I didn't really want to be ateacher or anything.
I just was like I'm going to doart and I didn't know what that
(07:47):
would look like or how wouldthat support myself.
But I had an art teacher.
I told her I think I want to goto art school and she looked me
square in the face and she saidoh, you won't fit in, you're
too normal.
And so that was kind ofcrushing.
I'm a teenager, I'm trying sohard to fit in.
(08:10):
We don't feel like we everreally fit in those years, and
the only thing that makes mefeel happy really or that's how
I felt is art.
And you're going to tell me I'mtoo normal and I shouldn't do
it.
Janice (08:26):
I hope that that art teacher said that in jest and
maybe you didn't pick up on it.
She was serious.
Well, I would think in the artindustry or as artists.
There's all kinds of people.
Jamie (08:39):
There are.
But when you're 17, 18 yearsold, and even since then in
adulthood, it it's like oh mygosh, why would you even say
that to a kid?
We're supposed to beencouraging you?
Help me figure out how to makethis happen.
If I'm gifted in it and I wasand I am, I don't mean that as a
boast, it's just I've reallyhad to work hard to settle in
and accept that part of myself.
(09:09):
So that really has been thebiggest hindrance, not feeling
like it was valuable and that itwasn't a little hobby kind of
thing.
I was a wife and a mom and Iwas raising kids and running
around, and now i in no wayimply that they were a hindrance
.
They weren't.
They are my greatest joy.
But you just get busy in lifeand I really didn't have a lot
of support in my marriage to beartistic and to go forward and
(09:35):
to pursue that.
I did bring it in in differentways and tried with my children
different things in my home.
Even there I wasn't supportedand I wasn't encouraged.
So that's where it was likewell, if I go, spend the time
out in an art room and I dideventually have an art room, but
I was like I should be in thehouse doing this.
(09:55):
I should be getting ready fordinner.
Janice (09:58):
Especially if you don't feel like you're bringing in
income, then we consider it notvaluable.
But a lot of times things arevaluable to us because it helps
our psyche.
Jamie (10:11):
Right right, and I didn't really tap into that for all
those years.
It was just let's take care ofwhat everybody needs, and maybe
one day there'll be time for it,and it was just that kind of
thing.
Like I said, it was just alittle hobby.
It's just not something youjust really spend time on.
Janice (10:30):
I know, as mothers we often think if we do things like
that, we're taking away fromour children's time, and so you
start to become the martyr.
You know, I got to doeverything for my kids and I
don't think I ever begrudged itreally, but I do think that I
could have pursued some thingsand I didn't just because I
thought, like you said, there'llbe time.
Jamie (10:52):
Probably about 15 years ago, I did start going to some
black light chalk art classes.
Every year for about eightyears I would do that and come
home and I would draw inchurches here and there, but
there again it wasn't like, oh,I've got a drawing coming up, so
(11:13):
let me go out there for threedays before I'm supposed to go
do this presentation and I'llstay up all night and I'll work
on it and then, okay, it's overand it's done and now let's go
back to life.
But all of my children arecreative in their own way and
artistic.
But if I saw anything like that, I really wanted to encourage
it in them.
So I think that's interestinghow we can have something in us
(11:35):
that we won't pursue or fightfor in ourselves.
But it's like oh, but I wantthat for you, I want you to have
that and I want you to knowthat it matters, that it's
important.
I want you to feel like you canpursue it.
Janice (11:47):
Yeah, and hopefully most parents would want their
children to have what they wantin life.
You know, that doesn't meanthere can't be bumps and things
like that as you go along.
But I want them to do what theydo well and be happy in it.
I get that.
So the children are raised, andI think you said you were
working two jobs recently tojust make your ends meet.
(12:11):
Is that accurate?
Yes, it is.
That's part of being single andbeing self-supporting and there
was a time when I didn't haveto do that.
Part of that is because there'sbeen times where I didn't
manage things as well.
But then also our economy.
(12:32):
It's just not great and it'shard.
And when rent keeps going upand groceries keep going up and
everything just keeps going up,it's just hard.
So I think that's part of meknowing that I'm going to have
to get a second job just tocover the basic things.
(12:53):
And that started in January.
I'd really been trying to putit off even from last summer.
Last summer it was like I knowI'm gonna have to do a second
job and I really tried to put itoff as long as I could.
But I bit the bullet in January.
So basically, that meant that you had less time to
(13:15):
pursue your dreams becauseyou're working so many hours,
and so I know the other day,when we talked, you came up with
an idea on how you might make ashift that would allow you to
pursue your dream of being anartist.
(13:36):
So I've been struggling withthat for several months and I
also had really been wrestlingwith purpose, like what was I
made for and what am I supposedto be doing with my life?
I had a really sweet job Iworked for a church and I have
an amazing team and staff andmade such sweet friends but
(14:02):
really struggling, being reallyfrustrated and feeling stuck.
And I finally came to thisplace of I'm not stuck unless I
choose to be and what do I want.
And about two years ago it wasin between jobs I had a back
injury and the job that I hadwhen I moved to Tennessee it was
actually an artistic job.
It was for the skate game and Iworked in the shop and in the
(14:23):
paint and scenic department.
But it was a very physicallydemanding job and it caused a
back issue.
For two months I was out ofwork and in that time I remember
just trusting that the Lord wasgoing to provide.
I didn't know what it was goingto look like, but I remember
coming to the place okay, Lord,if I could do anything, what
(14:45):
would it be and what would youmake me to do?
And it was that I would make myliving as an artist and I would
use art in a therapeutic way tohelp people, and so in these
last several months that hasreally been coming up again and
I think that had been part of myfrustration, because it was
(15:08):
like, well, I don't know how tomake that happen.
And.
Jamie (15:10):
I've got to have a job, and that's when I went on staff
at the church and that was sucha sweet blessing.
And so a few months ago, as Iwas wrestling, it was like, okay
, I'm frustrated all the time.
I'm just starting to beresentful, and that's nobody's
fault, it's me, because I'm notdoing what I need to do and I
(15:34):
don't have to be stuck unless Ichoose to be, and I need to
right my ship.
And what does that look likeand what are the things that are
holding me back?
And so, financially, there's Ihave a little bit of debt.
It's not extensive, butpersonally.
It's more than I want to have.
I don't want to have any.
Like I said that all thosethings are just continue to go
(15:54):
up and it's like what am Ipaying for?
And so you made a change inyour mind and you stated that
that you're going to dosomething that most of us would
never think of doing.
It's exciting yes, and it's not just, oh, let me just
(16:16):
decide to do this.
But looking at those aspects ofwhat's killing me and what do I
need to do, and financially,what's holding me back, that's
where the second job comes in.
I'm never going to get to whereI want to be if I'm doing the
same thing.
But you can't just keep doingthe same thing and expect a
different outcome.
So, looking at just housing andthose kind of things in this
(16:41):
economy and in this sweet citythat I love so much and so
thankful to be here, I decidedthat I am going to convert my
van Dory, as I lovingly refer toher, and I'm going to live in
her for a while, because, forone, I love my van.
(17:05):
I laugh and joke with people.
When something happens to her,I'm gonna grieve hard.
I've had that van for 10 years.
We've been through a lot,that's why I call her Dory.
She's got some dings and she'snot near as pretty as she used
to be, but she just keepsswimming and just keeps going.
I joke, and some of the bestsleep I get is taking a nap in
(17:28):
that car when I just let my seatback.
And so, yeah, I've decided thatI'm going to do that and that's
going to save a tremendousamount of money.
It's going to allow me to getmy debt paid off much quicker
than I would normally, and itfeels like that's what needs to
(17:49):
happen to get me going in thedirection that I want to go in.
And it gives me hope.
I feel hopeful and excitedabout the future because I feel
like I'm not just stuck.
I do have a plan and this iswhat needs to happen to get me
(18:10):
where I want to be, or where Ithink I want to be.
I feel like I have a vision formy life and for my future, but
I mean, it's the Lord's and he'sgoing to direct it, but it is
still in keeping with what Ifeel like he's shown me and how
he's leading me so far.
Janice (18:26):
So you're planning to move into your van.
When we talked the other day,we talked about a timeline and I
don't know if you've made anyshifts in that, but from what I
understood, the possibility ismoving into it by next fall.
Jamie (18:43):
September.
My lease is up September 10.
And so my middle daughter is incollege in Arizona and she'll
be home this summer and soreally in mid August, I need to
be be prepared because I'll takeher back.
We do a road trip to Arizona totake her back to college, so
when I get back I'm gonna needto be ready to transition into
(19:07):
minivan life, and so that's mytimeline.
Right now I'm kind of chompingat the bit.
There's things that I want todo, but I am busy.
I don't have the hands-on partyet because I've been doing a
lot of research, watching lotsof the minivan videos, and when
(19:30):
I have a question about justelectrical or storage or just
set up, I'm trying to look thosethings up and get reviews, see
what other people have done,thinking through how I want mine
to be set up.
What do I want to spend gettingmy budget set up, just kind of
(19:52):
dreaming what I want it to looklike and then going, okay, you
know what this is, what I wouldlove and how I want it to be set
up and how I want it to lookand budget wise and practically.
Can I achieve that in the timethat I have between two jobs?
Janice (20:07):
Well, hopefully you won't have that an extra job
once you get moved into Dory.
Jamie (20:12):
Yeah.
Janice (20:13):
Who knows?
Jamie (20:13):
Not for long at least.
I don't know.
We'll see.
I'm starting a new job nextweek.
I'm really super excited aboutthat, and I also work at Trader
Joe's part-time and it's reallyfun.
So I don't want to have twojobs but at the same time it's
like ooh.
But I'm really going to enjoywhat I'm doing.
That's going to be hard, but II don't know.
I'll worry about that afterSeptember.
Janice (20:35):
Well, shout out to Trader Joe's because you said
you love it there.
Jamie (20:40):
I do.
Sorry, I hope I could say thatI don't know why you can't say
you love working there.
Janice (20:44):
I can't imagine anybody being upset about that, okay.
So I'm thinking minivan notjust to survive.
Maybe you'll thrive in there,Right?
So what is your plan forshowering and cooking and doing
your laundry and things likethat?
Jamie (21:04):
I have friends that say come take a shower at my house,
or you can come park here, oryou can come over and do laundry
.
So many people that step intovan life do it because they want
to travel and so they're havingto figure out a lot of
(21:26):
logistics along the way.
I'm not really going to betraveling for a while, but just
around in this area.
I have that benefit of placeswhere I can go and take a shower
and that kind of thing.
Planet Fitness, yes, if I can,for whatever reason can't get to
(21:46):
my friend's house or mydaughter's house or whatever.
There's Planet Fitness and Iknow a lot of people who live in
their vans.
That's what they do.
They have Planet Fitnessmemberships because you can go
to any of them.
Oh my gosh, they're so clean,they're nice.
You go in, you get in a massagechair, you can exercise,
whatever.
And then there's laundromats.
I can go in an hour and washall of my clothes and dry
(22:08):
everything, and everything'sgetting washed all at once.
And then everything is driedall at once and I'm done and
I've been able to take a littlebreak.
And then, as far as cooking,there are different options with
that, depending on my powersource, there's hot plates, a
lot of vanners do.
(22:29):
The little propane stoves yeah,it's been researching that.
It's like did I want like alittle Coleman stove?
You know there's a lot.
You can do with a teapotelectric teapot, yeah, yes, and
I have one.
I have a tea kettle and so I'llhave that.
That's hot water right there.
That's going to cover a lot.
And if I do the hot plate witha little burner, you know I can
boil water there too to cook in.
(22:51):
I have little frying pan.
So there's a lot of researchand I'm trying to be really good
about that and look up thosethings.
But then too, that aspect ofnot having such financial
constraints, because I'll besaving.
Janice (23:09):
So are you having any fears about the living in the
van?
Jamie (23:16):
I don't know that.
I have fear, really Justknowing that it's going to be an
adjustment and you know,anytime you have transition,
even when it's good, there'salways that anxiety of what's
this going to be, oranticipating.
Right now I'm thinking aboutwhere am I going to park, but I
feel safe in the options that Ihave, but I think it's more just
(23:37):
the what's it actually going tolook like and I think it will
be fun and I think there's goingto be so many things that I do
enjoy about it and there's a lotof things that I'm looking
forward to, like.
I am looking forward to nothaving an apartment that I have
to come home and clean every day, that I have to come home and
clean every day.
Janice (23:57):
So when you get moved in , there's the possibility that
you might not need to work bothjobs, and so we talked the other
day about that, freeing you upsome to start dabbling into art
or into the art world again, andmaybe really not just dabble,
(24:17):
but throw yourself right into ityeah.
So how do you feel about that?
Are you exhilarated?
Do you have fears?
Is it all sounding good to you?
Jamie (24:28):
I'm excited about it, I'm hopeful and I do think about
the time management piece and,again, just really not letting
those old thoughts hold me backLike am I good enough?
I don't have the art degree orall these different pieces, but
I'm really more excited about it.
(24:50):
I'm excited to jump into mediumsthat I haven't really got to
pursue and with my new job thatI'm starting, I'll be working
for an organization startingpoint advocacy and turning point
charities and they're reallyprecious to me because they walk
with women through the divorceprocess and divorce trauma and
(25:13):
crisis, and it's the divorcecares in the midst of it, and
that was something that Idesperately needed, even though
I had people who loved me,supported me.
Just like I said, those piecesthat you don't think about
finances and taxes and all ofthese different things, logistic
pieces that you may not haveknown about and so that's what
(25:33):
this organization does.
I'm super excited about beingwith them and I'm hoping to
start adding art to the supportgroup.
That's something we want tostart getting going for women
who've come through theorganization already and ones
that are currently in it, and soI have talked to my new boss
(25:54):
about that and even had itwritten into my contract that
anything that I develop artisticand therapeutic wise like that,
that that's mine.
I have ownership of it and I canuse it outside of there and
take it with me if I ever leavethem very smart yeah, they want
to protect their stuff and I wasreading through the contract
and the things that you create,your intellectual property, that
(26:17):
you create while you're withthem or develop, is theirs, and
I was okay with that, except inart.
So I talked to my boss aboutthat even before she offered me
the job and I said I really wantto do that at some point,
create some classes, sometherapeutic art classes and she
was like that would be reallygreat.
You could probably do that withour people.
(26:37):
So to go back and be able tosay I need you to write this in
because I had already talkedabout that.
It's something that I want tobe able to use and develop going
forward, not just for there,but in general, yeah, Well, on
our Restless to Renewed website,we have a section called the
(26:58):
Enrichment Studio.
Janice (27:00):
And right now it's the podcast and it is recommended
reading, and then we have a blog, but I'm hoping to add some
Facebook live trainings andmaybe you would make a maiden
voyage launch with us and teacha short 30 minute class or
something like that, and we useour audience as your practice.
Jamie (27:23):
We'll talk about that.
I'd love to do that.
Janice (27:25):
Maybe yeah.
Jamie (27:27):
As I get it developed.
I'd love to have a conversationabout it, so we'll talk about
that, okay.
Janice (27:32):
So what medium is your specialty?
Jamie (27:36):
Well, I would say chalk and collage.
Chalk because it's kind of hardfor me to say, oh, what's my
favorite or what's my specialty.
I really want to experiencemore and because I haven't
pursued more over the years,there are other things that I
want to do, but chalk, probably,and collage are two of my two
(28:02):
favorites, because I do theblack light, chalk art and and
then collage has been verytherapeutic for me and very
healing, and so I think thatcollage is probably my favorite.
But I love chalk because youliterally have your hands all in
it and so I love that.
I love the feel of the chalkand just having my hands on my
(28:23):
board.
Janice (28:24):
So are you interested in churches contacting you to do
the black light chalk?
Oh yeah, yes, I would love thatso we can also have some
information about that, maybe animage of what you do.
Jamie (28:42):
So if churches would like you to visit and do that.
Janice (28:46):
I think that would be lovely.
I've seen it done a couple oftimes and it's just amazing how
that image appears.
Jamie (28:54):
I know, and for people that haven't seen it and they
don't know, it just really haslike wow, it is really neat to
be up there and to be doing thatand to hear that.
So when people see it appear, Ijust really do love that and I
would love to be able to do it.
See, I'm not great atself-promotion, so people are
like you need to go do the butt.
(29:14):
Well, remember, I'm a marketer.
Janice (29:17):
That's what you're for.
Jamie (29:19):
So, like you need to go do the butt.
Well, remember the marketer,that's what you're for, so
that's right.
So that's why this is good,because I didn't even ask you to
mention that and you just saidit right well, that helps.
Janice (29:26):
You know, we have the collective on our website too,
where people have the listing ofwhat they do.
We could make you up a littlesection there with some
information on that too it'll beamazing yes.
So if you were able to movetoward your dream and I don't
say if you were able to, you aredoing it, but what would you
(29:46):
like your life to look like intwo years?
Jamie (29:51):
In two years I would be debt-free.
I would have a good bit ofmoney in savings by then and I
would be creating art, even ifit's not my sole livelihood.
I want to be creating.
I have ideas for artisticpieces, series that I want to do
, that I'll be intentional aboutstarting on those.
(30:13):
I'd love to be in a bigger vanby then.
I can't even say that I wouldwant to be in an apartment,
necessarily.
A tiny house really is my goal,but if I'm in an upgraded van
by then, I think I would begreat.
Janice (30:32):
People are always going I want a bigger house, so this
is amusing.
I want a bigger van.
Jamie (30:37):
Well, you know, I love it well, and here's the thing, I
know that it can becounterintuitive, but I've had
the big houses, I had all thatand I have my children, I have
my family.
But when you walk that path ofdivorce and the loss and the
(30:59):
grief and the brokenness, youjust really come to learn what
you value.
And it's different foreverybody, but for me.
I always just tell my childrenhome is wherever I am, and they
will feel that way regardless ofwhether it's a van or it's a
house or whatever.
(31:19):
But I just really don't wantthat anymore.
I just want simpler.
There are things that I veryspecifically want and I want my
time to go to things that arereally meaningful to me, like
art and family, and it's not abig house for me anymore.
Janice (31:37):
I remember when we called them the McMansions and
everybody was trying to get intoa bigger house and that was a
big push for years and years.
And when the tiny housemovement came out, it wasn't
frowned upon to have a smallerhouse and a smaller footprint as
far as the resources you'reusing yeah, electricity and
water and everything right andI'm grateful for my homes.
Jamie (32:00):
I don't ever want to come across that I'm not grateful
for that.
I'm grateful my children had abeautiful home to grow up in and
land and those kind of things,but I also remember the amount
of time that it took just tocare for it and I just want that
time to go to something moremeaningful and special and
relaxing.
(32:20):
Yeah, we've talked about thattoo.
Janice (32:23):
I watch so many people and I always think what is it
that I want?
And I always think experiencesI want to experience things.
Jamie (32:31):
Right.
Janice (32:34):
So we've talked about the financial situations and
going through your divorce andyour job and so forth.
So what advice would you giveto other women who are striving
to achieve financialindependence and
self-sufficiency?
And I'm going to say that youare making some major decisions
(32:54):
and I think they're great.
Making some major decisions andI think they're great, but how
would you tell people that it'sokay to make decisions and to
move forward?
Jamie (33:05):
I think to start off with one I'm going to say do not
depend on me for financialadvice whatsoever.
Janice (33:12):
I'm not good at that.
Jamie (33:13):
That's something that I'm learning.
I would say you need to readand figure it out and ask
questions.
I actually found out aboutTiffany Alicia, I think, is her
last name.
I heard her on another podcastand, through a series of some
bad choices when she graduatedfrom college, wound up in
extreme debt and what it lookedlike for her to get out of that.
(33:35):
You know some things similar tothe Ramsey style, but I love
listening to her because that'scoming from a woman's
perspective.
There were just things that shesaid that makes a lot of sense
to me and she just had a reallysweet story and so I'm looking
forward to really diving moreinto her advice and I would say
(33:55):
that understand that you're notstuck and that's a really hard
place to get to.
We can feel so mired downdepending on what's going on in
your life.
Like I said, I'm single, so Ido have a little more freedom in
the kind of choices that I canmake, but I think that we can
easily feel stuck and feel likewe don't have a choice and that
(34:17):
is so defeating and discouragingand you have to step back and
go.
Okay, what do I want and am Istuck?
No, what do I need to do tomove forward?
And then you have to decide areyou willing to do that?
I mean, everybody knows,nothing in life really is free.
You do have to work hard.
(34:38):
You have to think about what doI really want?
I would not tell anybody tomake rash decisions.
This wasn't a rash decision.
I feel like that's the biggestthing is thinking about what do
you want.
I am going to say if you're abeliever, if you're a Christian,
you pray about it and figureout what it is you want for your
(34:58):
life.
And if you could have anything,if you could do anything, what
would that be?
If you could make your livingdoing anything, how would you
spend your time?
And then to step back and gookay, so what do I need to do in
order to move towards that andfor me it was finances is the
biggest thing.
So how can I combat that?
(35:19):
I can do this.
Am I willing to do it?
Yep, I'm willing to do it.
I know I've got to have the twojobs.
I'm going to have to have twojobs anyway.
I want to make that work for me.
I don't want to just keepworking just to fill somebody
else's pockets and I want what Ido to be meaningful.
It needs to be meaningful to meand I feel like I'm purposeful
(35:41):
in my days and serving others.
Janice (35:43):
You've talked me into it , so I'm going to get a van.
That might not be your thingI'm thinking about.
There'll be this whole massiveamount of minivans with women
running around Nashville.
Jamie (35:56):
Hey, then we might be able to find land that we can
all like go in together and justhave a little village.
I don't know.
Janice (36:04):
Oh, you don't know how many times I've thought about
that.
Not necessarily the van, buthaving a small, tiny house,
village, and they're popping upall over, but they're more
commercialized and so yeah, I dowant that.
Jamie (36:17):
That's kind of part of my long term.
I would love to have that forespecially women to come and go
you need a break just come for aweekend, just come for a week.
You just come for respite and becared for, because I think we
all need that.
And I'm not saying men don't,but you know, as women we take
care of everybody and we tend tonot take care of ourselves.
(36:37):
So I think that's another piece.
It's OK for you to want thingsin your life and to want to be
fulfilled.
And I think about as aChristian.
We can think about life beingso hard and sometimes we can
lose the joy.
I think about the Lord saying Icame that you might have life
and have it in abundance, and itis both joy and sorrow, and
you're going to experience allkind of things.
Saying I came that you mighthave life and have it in
abundance, and it is both joyand sorrow, and you're going to
(36:58):
experience all kind of things.
But I just keep thinking I'msupposed to have joy too and I
think it's okay for me to wantto enjoy my life too.
Janice (37:08):
I wrote a blog post this last week about half glass full
and half glass empty and how Ispent most of my life half glass
empty and I'm starting to makethat switch, and so I think that
part of that half glass emptyI'm starting to make that switch
, and so I think that part ofthat was always guilt, like I'm
not supposed to be happy.
Right Because other people aresuffering, so why do?
I think I should be happy, butI'm switching my mindset.
(37:30):
So your words are inspiring andI think probably a lot of other
people will need to hear thosewords also.
Jamie (37:37):
Well, thank you well you're welcome.
I do want people to just feelencouraged and, again, like I
said, we don't have to be stuck.
You just have to figure outwhat direction are you moving in
and what steps do you need totake to get there.
You gotta be able be willing todo it.
You can't just sit back.
You gotta move forward, makesacrifices and yep, that's be
(37:57):
willing to do what needs to bedone.
Janice (37:59):
Yeah, and I firmly believe in that.
So this has been a really funconversation and for years I've
been watching people in vans andI was telling you earlier that
my mom is excited because shewatches van life and all the
women that are retiring in themand so forth.
So she's looking forward to thisand for those of you who would
(38:22):
like more information aboutJamie, we'll have pictures of
her van Dory and also I'm hoping, jamie, you'll be able to get
some inside and outside and wecan see the progress and this
summer I have another visit withyou and get the updates.
Jamie (38:38):
Yeah, I would love that.
That's additional motivation.
When you start telling people,then you become accountable for
it, so it's helpful for me.
I want to get busy because I'vegot to send pictures and people
are going to want to know aboutthis and, like I said, the
people that I've told have beenso sweet and open and pretty
much all of them have said, yeah, I can see that.
Janice (38:59):
We want the pre-pictures right now, nothing done.
Jamie (39:03):
We want it from scratch.
I can do that.
Janice (39:05):
Okay.
So anyway, like I said, you canfind out more information about
Jamie on our website,restless2renewed.
com, and I think right now I'mjust going to go ahead and
finish this up today withanother quote that I think is
appropriate for thisconversation, and then we'll
(39:25):
just be saying goodbye.
Is that okay, jamie?
That sounds good, okay.
So here is our quote this timearound Holding on is believing
that there's only a past.
Letting go is knowing thatthere's a future, and that's by
Daphne Rose Kingma.
I love that, okay.
(39:46):
Well, it made me think of youAll.
Right, everyone.
Well, we thank you and we'regoing to say goodbye.
So goodbye, jamie, goodbye.
Thank you so much for having me.
You're welcome.
You have a good rest of the day.
Jamie (40:09):
Thanks, you too.
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