May 22, 2024 • 19 mins
In this episode of Retail Intel, Brian Sheehan sits down with Marisa Kochnover, a luminary in franchise development for sugaringLA and the Director of Franchise Development at REP'M Group along with Chadwick Brown, the Senior Project Manager at REP'M Group, as we explore the vibrant world of health and wellness in commercial real estate. SugaringLA is known for its organic sugaring studios and lasting hair removal service and earthly care.
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Episode Transcript
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Brian Sheehan (00:05):
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail
aisles of shopping centers andthe world of property investment
.
With me today I have MarissaKochnover and Chadwick Brown of
(00:25):
the Rep'Em Group.
Marissa is the Director ofFranchise Development at Rep'Em
Group and the Director ofDevelopment for Sugaring LA.
Chadwick is a Senior ProjectManager on the Rep'Em Group's
Build'Em team.
Marissa is a dynamicprofessional with infectious
energy, empathetic nature and atherapeutic background that sets
her apart.
(00:46):
With her distinctive insightinto franchising, marissa has
seamlessly transitioned into therealm of franchise development.
Jadwick is a results-oriented,driven professional who values
quality and achieving clientsatisfaction by delivering
projects within a timely mannerwhile maintaining costs.
He values strong relationshipswithin the industry with owners,
(01:08):
architects and engineers,subcontractors, suppliers and
co-workers.
Marissa Chadwick welcome.
Marissa Kochnover (01:16):
Thank you.
Brian Sheehan (01:17):
Thank you Brian.
Yeah, thank you both forjoining me today.
So I'd like to start withbackgrounds.
What got you interested incommercial real estate?
What were you doing prior tojoining Repum and working with
Sugaring LA?
Marissa Kochnover (01:31):
Sure, prior to jumping onto the development
side of franchising, I was afranchising myself.
I, along with some partners,had two cycle bars in New Jersey
and over the course of my timewith Cycle Bar that I was
acquired, I ended up becomingpresident of the operating group
(01:52):
that acquired me.
We ended up with 15 cycle bars,so I've got quite a unique
perspective into the franchisingworld from the other side.
So when it was time to lead updevelopment for this brand, I
got a phone call and was superinterested, loved the founder,
danielle Correa, lovedeverything about the brand and
(02:13):
was excited to jump in and getstarted from the beginning with
a brand again.
Brian Sheehan (02:18):
How about you, Chadwick?
Chadwick Brown (02:19):
Yeah, I've been in commercial construction for
20 years and had a few differentroles through healthcare and
some different retail build outs, and always enjoyed working
with the end user and client inan owner's rep role and what
better way to do constructionthan helping folks realize their
dream of opening a business andworking in this space?
(02:39):
And so been doing this forabout a year and a half now and
really enjoying it.
Brian Sheehan (02:43):
It is exciting.
I love seeing that journey thatyou know, marissa sounds like
you had as a franchisee prior tothis role and you've got a lot
of experience in fitness andwellness.
What is it you love about thiscategory of commercial real
estate?
Marissa Kochnover (03:01):
So I love the wellness space.
You know, whether it's fitness,wellness, self-care, I love
that space because I ultimatelybelieve we're helping people
find the best version ofthemselves, whatever that may
mean for them, whether it's theservice that makes them feel
good, the fitness modality theylove, or even the business
opportunity right, If you'relooking at it from another lens.
Brian Sheehan (03:24):
And I know Repum Group is really fascinating and
I think we're going to scheduletime to talk about the company
because I want to help sharethat message with our audience.
But today we really set this upto talk about Sugaring LA and
maybe we should start, I guess,by explaining what is it, what
(03:44):
was the inspiration behind itscreation.
Marissa Kochnover (03:47):
Yeah, absolutely, it's.
Hair removal Sugaring LA is allnatural, organic, but elevated
hair removal Sugaring is amethod that's been around for I
mean, they say forever thatCleopatra might have used it.
It's been around forever, butit is an old school art, with it
being delivered in a new schoolway with products not only good
(04:09):
for you but the environment aswell.
And our founder, danielleCorrea, almost 20 years ago now
discovered sugaring, was blownaway by its results and it was
almost like a light bulb momentfor her.
She knew that her path in lifenow was to bring elevated
quality sugaring to everybody,and she set out to do just that.
Brian Sheehan (04:32):
That's so fascinating.
I had no idea it had beenaround that long hundreds,
thousands of years.
Marissa Kochnover (04:37):
Yeah.
Brian Sheehan (04:38):
So it's this old technique that you've
rediscovered, reintroduced in anexciting new way.
There's so much competition forretail space these days.
How are you finding successwith Sugaring LA?
Marissa Kochnover (04:54):
Well, I think it's a combination of factors,
the fact that Danielle has thisinstitutional level of knowledge
in the art of sugaring and hasreally been able to bring that
skill and that level of trainingto the brand as we roll it out.
That sets us apart in themarket big time.
I mean she has a proprietarytechnique called smart sugaring.
(05:15):
There's a lot of benefits tothis technique.
It's customized, but ultimately, at the end of the day, what's
important to the business owneris that it's faster.
Faster meaning you get to seemore clients a day, there's more
revenue to the bottom line andyour employees have a larger
potential for income.
So that's definitely a placewhere we're seeing success and
(05:36):
differentiation.
But I also think because thisbrand is partnered with both the
RepM group and with FranWorth,it has the ability to leverage
some serious franchising power,the playbooks, the tried and
true kind of franchise, industryknowledge and the skill
(05:57):
development we have with theBeldum team.
Brian Sheehan (05:59):
So it's faster, which helps increase revenues.
What are some of the otherthings that make Sugaring LA?
For those that aren't familiarwith the brand, that make it
unique.
Marissa Kochnover (06:11):
Well, there's several things.
So if you typically think ofhair removal, you're thinking
pink, red, female, feminine, butthis is intentionally a
gender-neutral space, so it'swarm and inviting and
specifically and intentionallyset up so that everybody can
come in to feel good in theirskin.
(06:32):
So our demographic is prettywide, ages 12 to 70.
And we skew 20 to 30% male, 30%male, which is quite unique.
And sugaring in general is lesspainful than traditional hair
(06:54):
removal methods, for example,waxing right.
The smart sugaring techniquethat we offer, as I mentioned,
is customized, so we have fourdifferent types of sugar paste
that we can custom blenddepending upon who's coming in,
how old they are, skin type,hair texture, temperature in the
room.
I mean we really factor it allin to provide an elevated and
customized experience for theclient, and that is that is an
(07:19):
elevated experience that youdon't find really in any other
hair removal space out thereright now, whether it's sugaring
, waxing, lasering, you're notseeing that and that's something
that we're excited and realpumped to bring to the market.
Brian Sheehan (07:35):
It's such a great brand and use, at least from my
perspective.
But from a landlord'sperspective, what makes this a
desirable use?
Why would they want you intheir shopping center?
Marissa Kochnover (07:49):
Well, I think the foot traffic first and
foremost right, and I think thatthis is an elevated brand, so
it's drawing a lot of attention.
The volume, too, that we canput through the doors, I think,
is helpful for all of ourco-tenants.
Chadwick Brown (08:04):
Yeah, just to add on to that, I think, as
Marissa said, it's an elevatedbrand and it also it's more of a
.
It opens the doors to adifferent side of the personal
service and beauty brands, forthat foot traffic that maybe
doesn't exist elsewhere aroundlocations.
Brian Sheehan (08:18):
Can you speak to any specific numbers around foot
traffic?
Marissa Kochnover (08:24):
For me being on the development side, I'm a
little bound by the rules fromthe FTC.
However, I can tell you that in2022, her oldest location did
see over 1,800 new clients.
Brian Sheehan (08:38):
Oh, wow.
Marissa Kochnover (08:39):
And that was prior to her becoming a
franchise and becoming involvedwith Brandworth.
So that was prior to any sortof marketing effort.
So that is solely from word ofmouth and referral alone.
Brian Sheehan (08:51):
That's incredible .
Marissa Kochnover (08:53):
I know.
Brian Sheehan (08:53):
Let's talk about the square foot size, range
footprint of a typical studio.
You call it a studio, you callit a spa.
Marissa Kochnover (09:00):
A studio.
Brian Sheehan (09:01):
Studio.
Yeah, what's the typical sizerange?
What's your sweet spot?
Chadwick Brown (09:05):
We're sitting between 1,000 and 1,400, 1,500
feet and we've got a fewdifferent prototypical layouts
that can be fit within thatrange.
Brian Sheehan (09:14):
It's a good size range.
Of course there's a lot ofspaces in the world for that, a
lot of competition in that sizerange.
But what's something that woulddrive you towards the upper end
of that range, the 1500 squarefoot space?
Chadwick Brown (09:26):
I think, looking at the market and certainly
availability, if there's a largedraw there and the demographics
make sense to have a higher bedcount, if you will, to grow
those rooms out to look at thehigher end square footage, we
would take a look at that.
It's also a lot going to bestructured around the deal right
In negotiations with thedevelopers and landlords,
depending on what that tenantbuild out looks like based on
(09:48):
that square footage.
That can direct us as well.
Brian Sheehan (09:50):
Okay, marissa, do you want to add anything there?
Marissa Kochnover (09:54):
Yeah, I mean this model is tied in really
well to how many services you'redoing a day, to how many
services you're doing a day, andit's a very KPI-driven model.
It is simple, it is streamlined.
We require very few employeesto execute.
So when we're looking at that,depending upon that footprint
(10:15):
and how many rooms we can getout of that space, that really
helps.
With the different performanceindicators that obviously will
gauge success or quicker ramptime and hopefully ultimate
success.
Brian Sheehan (10:29):
How long is the average session?
Marissa Kochnover (10:32):
So that's part of the beauty of the smart
sugaring technique.
A typical Brazilian service is45 minutes long and we're doing
them in 15 to 20.
Brian Sheehan (10:41):
Oh, wow, okay, that's what helps you operate
with fewer employees and achievethat kind of turnover.
That's incredible.
Marissa Kochnover (10:51):
Exactly, and you only need one person in the
front at a time to keep the flowmoving.
Brian Sheehan (10:56):
Okay, it's a corporate model, it's a
franchise model.
Marissa Kochnover (11:00):
Well, it's a franchise model.
Brian Sheehan (11:01):
Okay, and how many?
What's the current number ofopen locations?
Marissa Kochnover (11:05):
Five.
Five corporate locations areopen right now and we have nine
in development.
Brian Sheehan (11:09):
Nine in development.
How many do you think will opennext year, 2025?
Chadwick Brown (11:15):
Yeah, I would say uh, five or six, well,
there's nine in development.
Brian Sheehan (11:19):
Is that for this year, for 2024?
Yes, sir, those will be openthis year.
Chadwick Brown (11:23):
Yes, uh most of those, yes, but about half of
those, and then the others willroll into next year so five to
ten right annually.
Brian Sheehan (11:30):
New locations open yes, and where do you want
to see it be in five years?
We had this conversation againdown the road.
Love to continue theconversation.
Marissa Kochnover (11:41):
Yeah, I mean Danielle Correa, the founder of
Sugaring LA, has quite a vision.
There is no leader in thesugaring space yet you really
have not seen a leader emerge,and that's exactly who she
intends to be.
So you know, if you think ofSugaring LA, I want you to think
of something similar to thewhole foods of hair removal,
(12:02):
right?
So she's got this idea.
500 or so units would be wouldclearly be an incredible goal.
I don't know if that'shappening in five years.
I don't know what.
You know how long it willactually take us to get there,
but the momentum is has begunand it's it's a it's a super fun
rocket ship to be, to bestrapped onto.
I'll tell you that.
Brian Sheehan (12:22):
Oh, I bet 500 locations and, as you said, the
whole foods of hair removal.
That really helps kind ofcreate a visual and that's
really exciting.
Marissa Kochnover (12:30):
Yeah.
Brian Sheehan (12:31):
What markets are your franchises currently
located in or where you'regrowing?
Marissa Kochnover (12:36):
Yeah, I mean, listen, the typical markets are
hot.
Right, you're seeing Dallas,you're seeing Florida, north
Carolina, even Atlanta.
Obviously, the next personcoming into LA is going to be
able to ride these hotels prettywell.
So we're seeing the typicalmarkets, but the beauty of this
brand is that hair removal isfor everybody.
(12:56):
This is not a want-to service,it's a need-to service.
There's nothing unattainableabout it or luxurious.
This is self-care, so it workseverywhere you put it.
Brian Sheehan (13:08):
It's a membership model or it's per session model
?
Marissa Kochnover (13:11):
The bulk of your revenue will come from
memberships.
That is our focus.
However, we do have packageofferings and single service.
There's a product lineassociated with it as well.
Brian Sheehan (13:21):
Okay, what are some of the key factors that
you're considering when youevaluate a potential property?
How do you select a site?
Who do you like to be around?
What do you want to see atthose centers?
Chadwick Brown (13:33):
I think we're always looking for good
co-tenants.
Certainly, grocery is alwayshot and there's always those big
names that folks want to belocated around, but also the
personal service space andbeauty space, massage areas and
nails as well as lashes, and soif we can get in an area that's
got those beauty services, it'sgot good foot traffic in a
(13:53):
walkable area.
It's something that we'relooking for.
Brian Sheehan (13:55):
Have you come across any challenges
negotiating lease agreements?
Any challenges negotiatinglease agreements?
Is there something unique thatmaybe our audience isn't
thinking about when it comestime to do a deal with sugaring
Something to be on the lookoutfor with this type of use, or
maybe specifically with sugaring?
Chadwick Brown (14:15):
Not necessarily.
I mean there's in thebusinesses we're around, there's
in terms of exclusivity,there's few of the beauty
services that would also providehair removal.
So we haven't encountered awhole lot of issues as it
relates to that.
More so right now is vacancy,certainly in the retail space,
and that's anywhere USA rightnow.
(14:35):
But in terms of specifics ofanything around the deal, we
haven't had many problems.
Brian Sheehan (14:41):
Are there particular things in the
shopping center that you'relooking for?
So one would be can you take aninline space or do you need to
be on an end cap?
Are there other things thatyou're looking for physically in
a shopping center when you'reevaluating sites?
Chadwick Brown (14:55):
Yeah, certainly inline, open and inviting area
with a lot of foot traffic.
I think we keep coming back tothat Some good frontage, to kind
of highlight that in amarketing sense, but as well as
the good co-tenants Parking youneed a minimum storefront width
22 feet is our minimum width.
Brian Sheehan (15:15):
Yes, okay, probably not too hard to find
those.
Generally speaking, are thereparticular demos or incomes,
population, other things thatwould check the boxes to be a
good candidate site for SugaringLA?
Marissa Kochnover (15:29):
Yeah, I mean we're.
Obviously we use the softwarejust to understand the different
demographics of each area.
We're looking for a householdincome over $75,000.
Our software has the ability tokind of really narrow down and
understand how people in thatarea prioritize self-care and
how they're spending their money.
(15:50):
So we start to really getgranular when choosing territory
, so identify ideal locations.
Brian Sheehan (15:56):
Mind if I ask is that a proprietary software or
do you guys use something offthe shelf?
Marissa Kochnover (16:00):
We use Jivis.
Brian Sheehan (16:01):
Okay, how about your franchisee profile?
Is there a particularbackground that you like to see?
Traits experiences that wouldlend themselves to having
success with Sugaring LA.
Marissa Kochnover (16:14):
Yeah, I mean this brand is simple, it is
streamlined and it is scalable.
So it really speaks to anempire builder.
It speaks to somebody who canleverage operational
efficiencies and reallyunderstand how to grow within a
space, just because of thesimplicity within the model.
(16:36):
So we've seen that Obviouslypeople who prioritize wellness
in one way or another right.
They value putting clean,organic food and products into
their body, using on their body,and they see the demand and
understand that right.
So a respect for that.
But we also we're finding weneed somebody who has a keen eye
(16:58):
for KPIs of a business right,and can really scale a business
and lead a team, mentor a team,to be able to focus on those key
performance indicators to pushthe business in the correct
direction.
So someone who's justwell-versed in being a leader is
super helpful.
But you do not need to have anyexperience in the sugaring or
(17:23):
self-care space.
I mean you hire eithercosmetologists or estheticians,
either one.
We provide the training.
You just got to be able to leada good team.
Brian Sheehan (17:32):
Sure, and the focus on KPIs.
You've talked about that morethan maybe anyone I've
interviewed and that probablyspeaks to the value that Repim
Group helps bring to theseexciting, innovative,
fast-growing brands.
So again, we'll touch on thatin a different interview, I
guess.
Last question for you todaywhat do you need to see?
What are you looking for fromlandlord partners for Sugaring
(17:54):
LA to be successful?
Chadwick Brown (17:56):
Brian.
I'll tell you what.
Right now it's responsiveness,just being at a 17-year low.
We've got a broad net out thereand so really encouraging folks
to get multiple LOIs out for usto continue negotiations as we
move forward, just because it'ssuch a tight market and so
certainly there's some ideasaround negotiations and everyone
(18:18):
getting agreeable.
But good communications, openlines of communications and
responsiveness right now, justto get a deal to the finish line
and get closed, to get thatlease executed, is what's
important, because we're, youknow, if we've got a site
dragging out, these folks areready to get open for business
and we've got to pivot and move.
So that's that'd be the numberone thing I would say in this
market.
Brian Sheehan (18:38):
Well, Marissa Chadwick, it was great speaking
with you today.
Marissa Kochnover (18:41):
Thank you, brian, it was great.
Thank you.
Chadwick Brown (18:44):
Thank you, Brian .
Brian Sheehan (18:45):
And thank you for joining me on Retail Intel.
Be on the lookout for newSugaring LA locations opening
near you and be sure to checkthem out at wwwsugaringlacom.
Give them a follow at atsugaring LA.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
(19:07):
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
work, this podcast is yourall-access pass to the world of
commercial real estate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail IntelPodcast, send a message to
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
(19:28):
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail
aisles of shopping centers andthe world of property investment
.
With me today I have MarissaKochnover and Chadwick Brown of
(00:25):
the Rep'Em Group.
Marissa is the Director ofFranchise Development at Rep'Em
Group and the Director ofDevelopment for Sugaring LA.
Chadwick is a Senior ProjectManager on the Rep'Em Group's
Build'Em team.
Marissa is a dynamicprofessional with infectious
energy, empathetic nature and atherapeutic background that sets
her apart.
(00:46):
With her distinctive insightinto franchising, marissa has
seamlessly transitioned into therealm of franchise development.
Jadwick is a results-oriented,driven professional who values
quality and achieving clientsatisfaction by delivering
projects within a timely mannerwhile maintaining costs.
He values strong relationshipswithin the industry with owners,
(01:08):
architects and engineers,subcontractors, suppliers and
co-workers.
Marissa Chadwick welcome.
Marissa Kochnover (01:16):
Thank you.
Brian Sheehan (01:17):
Thank you Brian.
Yeah, thank you both forjoining me today.
So I'd like to start withbackgrounds.
What got you interested incommercial real estate?
What were you doing prior tojoining Repum and working with
Sugaring LA?
Marissa Kochnover (01:31):
Sure, prior to jumping onto the development
side of franchising, I was afranchising myself.
I, along with some partners,had two cycle bars in New Jersey
and over the course of my timewith Cycle Bar that I was
acquired, I ended up becomingpresident of the operating group
(01:52):
that acquired me.
We ended up with 15 cycle bars,so I've got quite a unique
perspective into the franchisingworld from the other side.
So when it was time to lead updevelopment for this brand, I
got a phone call and was superinterested, loved the founder,
danielle Correa, lovedeverything about the brand and
(02:13):
was excited to jump in and getstarted from the beginning with
a brand again.
Brian Sheehan (02:18):
How about you, Chadwick?
Chadwick Brown (02:19):
Yeah, I've been in commercial construction for
20 years and had a few differentroles through healthcare and
some different retail build outs, and always enjoyed working
with the end user and client inan owner's rep role and what
better way to do constructionthan helping folks realize their
dream of opening a business andworking in this space?
(02:39):
And so been doing this forabout a year and a half now and
really enjoying it.
Brian Sheehan (02:43):
It is exciting.
I love seeing that journey thatyou know, marissa sounds like
you had as a franchisee prior tothis role and you've got a lot
of experience in fitness andwellness.
What is it you love about thiscategory of commercial real
estate?
Marissa Kochnover (03:01):
So I love the wellness space.
You know, whether it's fitness,wellness, self-care, I love
that space because I ultimatelybelieve we're helping people
find the best version ofthemselves, whatever that may
mean for them, whether it's theservice that makes them feel
good, the fitness modality theylove, or even the business
opportunity right, If you'relooking at it from another lens.
Brian Sheehan (03:24):
And I know Repum Group is really fascinating and
I think we're going to scheduletime to talk about the company
because I want to help sharethat message with our audience.
But today we really set this upto talk about Sugaring LA and
maybe we should start, I guess,by explaining what is it, what
(03:44):
was the inspiration behind itscreation.
Marissa Kochnover (03:47):
Yeah, absolutely, it's.
Hair removal Sugaring LA is allnatural, organic, but elevated
hair removal Sugaring is amethod that's been around for I
mean, they say forever thatCleopatra might have used it.
It's been around forever, butit is an old school art, with it
being delivered in a new schoolway with products not only good
(04:09):
for you but the environment aswell.
And our founder, danielleCorrea, almost 20 years ago now
discovered sugaring, was blownaway by its results and it was
almost like a light bulb momentfor her.
She knew that her path in lifenow was to bring elevated
quality sugaring to everybody,and she set out to do just that.
Brian Sheehan (04:32):
That's so fascinating.
I had no idea it had beenaround that long hundreds,
thousands of years.
Marissa Kochnover (04:37):
Yeah.
Brian Sheehan (04:38):
So it's this old technique that you've
rediscovered, reintroduced in anexciting new way.
There's so much competition forretail space these days.
How are you finding successwith Sugaring LA?
Marissa Kochnover (04:54):
Well, I think it's a combination of factors,
the fact that Danielle has thisinstitutional level of knowledge
in the art of sugaring and hasreally been able to bring that
skill and that level of trainingto the brand as we roll it out.
That sets us apart in themarket big time.
I mean she has a proprietarytechnique called smart sugaring.
(05:15):
There's a lot of benefits tothis technique.
It's customized, but ultimately, at the end of the day, what's
important to the business owneris that it's faster.
Faster meaning you get to seemore clients a day, there's more
revenue to the bottom line andyour employees have a larger
potential for income.
So that's definitely a placewhere we're seeing success and
(05:36):
differentiation.
But I also think because thisbrand is partnered with both the
RepM group and with FranWorth,it has the ability to leverage
some serious franchising power,the playbooks, the tried and
true kind of franchise, industryknowledge and the skill
(05:57):
development we have with theBeldum team.
Brian Sheehan (05:59):
So it's faster, which helps increase revenues.
What are some of the otherthings that make Sugaring LA?
For those that aren't familiarwith the brand, that make it
unique.
Marissa Kochnover (06:11):
Well, there's several things.
So if you typically think ofhair removal, you're thinking
pink, red, female, feminine, butthis is intentionally a
gender-neutral space, so it'swarm and inviting and
specifically and intentionallyset up so that everybody can
come in to feel good in theirskin.
(06:32):
So our demographic is prettywide, ages 12 to 70.
And we skew 20 to 30% male, 30%male, which is quite unique.
And sugaring in general is lesspainful than traditional hair
(06:54):
removal methods, for example,waxing right.
The smart sugaring techniquethat we offer, as I mentioned,
is customized, so we have fourdifferent types of sugar paste
that we can custom blenddepending upon who's coming in,
how old they are, skin type,hair texture, temperature in the
room.
I mean we really factor it allin to provide an elevated and
customized experience for theclient, and that is that is an
(07:19):
elevated experience that youdon't find really in any other
hair removal space out thereright now, whether it's sugaring
, waxing, lasering, you're notseeing that and that's something
that we're excited and realpumped to bring to the market.
Brian Sheehan (07:35):
It's such a great brand and use, at least from my
perspective.
But from a landlord'sperspective, what makes this a
desirable use?
Why would they want you intheir shopping center?
Marissa Kochnover (07:49):
Well, I think the foot traffic first and
foremost right, and I think thatthis is an elevated brand, so
it's drawing a lot of attention.
The volume, too, that we canput through the doors, I think,
is helpful for all of ourco-tenants.
Chadwick Brown (08:04):
Yeah, just to add on to that, I think, as
Marissa said, it's an elevatedbrand and it also it's more of a
.
It opens the doors to adifferent side of the personal
service and beauty brands, forthat foot traffic that maybe
doesn't exist elsewhere aroundlocations.
Brian Sheehan (08:18):
Can you speak to any specific numbers around foot
traffic?
Marissa Kochnover (08:24):
For me being on the development side, I'm a
little bound by the rules fromthe FTC.
However, I can tell you that in2022, her oldest location did
see over 1,800 new clients.
Brian Sheehan (08:38):
Oh, wow.
Marissa Kochnover (08:39):
And that was prior to her becoming a
franchise and becoming involvedwith Brandworth.
So that was prior to any sortof marketing effort.
So that is solely from word ofmouth and referral alone.
Brian Sheehan (08:51):
That's incredible .
Marissa Kochnover (08:53):
I know.
Brian Sheehan (08:53):
Let's talk about the square foot size, range
footprint of a typical studio.
You call it a studio, you callit a spa.
Marissa Kochnover (09:00):
A studio.
Brian Sheehan (09:01):
Studio.
Yeah, what's the typical sizerange?
What's your sweet spot?
Chadwick Brown (09:05):
We're sitting between 1,000 and 1,400, 1,500
feet and we've got a fewdifferent prototypical layouts
that can be fit within thatrange.
Brian Sheehan (09:14):
It's a good size range.
Of course there's a lot ofspaces in the world for that, a
lot of competition in that sizerange.
But what's something that woulddrive you towards the upper end
of that range, the 1500 squarefoot space?
Chadwick Brown (09:26):
I think, looking at the market and certainly
availability, if there's a largedraw there and the demographics
make sense to have a higher bedcount, if you will, to grow
those rooms out to look at thehigher end square footage, we
would take a look at that.
It's also a lot going to bestructured around the deal right
In negotiations with thedevelopers and landlords,
depending on what that tenantbuild out looks like based on
(09:48):
that square footage.
That can direct us as well.
Brian Sheehan (09:50):
Okay, marissa, do you want to add anything there?
Marissa Kochnover (09:54):
Yeah, I mean this model is tied in really
well to how many services you'redoing a day, to how many
services you're doing a day, andit's a very KPI-driven model.
It is simple, it is streamlined.
We require very few employeesto execute.
So when we're looking at that,depending upon that footprint
(10:15):
and how many rooms we can getout of that space, that really
helps.
With the different performanceindicators that obviously will
gauge success or quicker ramptime and hopefully ultimate
success.
Brian Sheehan (10:29):
How long is the average session?
Marissa Kochnover (10:32):
So that's part of the beauty of the smart
sugaring technique.
A typical Brazilian service is45 minutes long and we're doing
them in 15 to 20.
Brian Sheehan (10:41):
Oh, wow, okay, that's what helps you operate
with fewer employees and achievethat kind of turnover.
That's incredible.
Marissa Kochnover (10:51):
Exactly, and you only need one person in the
front at a time to keep the flowmoving.
Brian Sheehan (10:56):
Okay, it's a corporate model, it's a
franchise model.
Marissa Kochnover (11:00):
Well, it's a franchise model.
Brian Sheehan (11:01):
Okay, and how many?
What's the current number ofopen locations?
Marissa Kochnover (11:05):
Five.
Five corporate locations areopen right now and we have nine
in development.
Brian Sheehan (11:09):
Nine in development.
How many do you think will opennext year, 2025?
Chadwick Brown (11:15):
Yeah, I would say uh, five or six, well,
there's nine in development.
Brian Sheehan (11:19):
Is that for this year, for 2024?
Yes, sir, those will be openthis year.
Chadwick Brown (11:23):
Yes, uh most of those, yes, but about half of
those, and then the others willroll into next year so five to
ten right annually.
Brian Sheehan (11:30):
New locations open yes, and where do you want
to see it be in five years?
We had this conversation againdown the road.
Love to continue theconversation.
Marissa Kochnover (11:41):
Yeah, I mean Danielle Correa, the founder of
Sugaring LA, has quite a vision.
There is no leader in thesugaring space yet you really
have not seen a leader emerge,and that's exactly who she
intends to be.
So you know, if you think ofSugaring LA, I want you to think
of something similar to thewhole foods of hair removal,
(12:02):
right?
So she's got this idea.
500 or so units would be wouldclearly be an incredible goal.
I don't know if that'shappening in five years.
I don't know what.
You know how long it willactually take us to get there,
but the momentum is has begunand it's it's a it's a super fun
rocket ship to be, to bestrapped onto.
I'll tell you that.
Brian Sheehan (12:22):
Oh, I bet 500 locations and, as you said, the
whole foods of hair removal.
That really helps kind ofcreate a visual and that's
really exciting.
Marissa Kochnover (12:30):
Yeah.
Brian Sheehan (12:31):
What markets are your franchises currently
located in or where you'regrowing?
Marissa Kochnover (12:36):
Yeah, I mean, listen, the typical markets are
hot.
Right, you're seeing Dallas,you're seeing Florida, north
Carolina, even Atlanta.
Obviously, the next personcoming into LA is going to be
able to ride these hotels prettywell.
So we're seeing the typicalmarkets, but the beauty of this
brand is that hair removal isfor everybody.
(12:56):
This is not a want-to service,it's a need-to service.
There's nothing unattainableabout it or luxurious.
This is self-care, so it workseverywhere you put it.
Brian Sheehan (13:08):
It's a membership model or it's per session model
?
Marissa Kochnover (13:11):
The bulk of your revenue will come from
memberships.
That is our focus.
However, we do have packageofferings and single service.
There's a product lineassociated with it as well.
Brian Sheehan (13:21):
Okay, what are some of the key factors that
you're considering when youevaluate a potential property?
How do you select a site?
Who do you like to be around?
What do you want to see atthose centers?
Chadwick Brown (13:33):
I think we're always looking for good
co-tenants.
Certainly, grocery is alwayshot and there's always those big
names that folks want to belocated around, but also the
personal service space andbeauty space, massage areas and
nails as well as lashes, and soif we can get in an area that's
got those beauty services, it'sgot good foot traffic in a
(13:53):
walkable area.
It's something that we'relooking for.
Brian Sheehan (13:55):
Have you come across any challenges
negotiating lease agreements?
Any challenges negotiatinglease agreements?
Is there something unique thatmaybe our audience isn't
thinking about when it comestime to do a deal with sugaring
Something to be on the lookoutfor with this type of use, or
maybe specifically with sugaring?
Chadwick Brown (14:15):
Not necessarily.
I mean there's in thebusinesses we're around, there's
in terms of exclusivity,there's few of the beauty
services that would also providehair removal.
So we haven't encountered awhole lot of issues as it
relates to that.
More so right now is vacancy,certainly in the retail space,
and that's anywhere USA rightnow.
(14:35):
But in terms of specifics ofanything around the deal, we
haven't had many problems.
Brian Sheehan (14:41):
Are there particular things in the
shopping center that you'relooking for?
So one would be can you take aninline space or do you need to
be on an end cap?
Are there other things thatyou're looking for physically in
a shopping center when you'reevaluating sites?
Chadwick Brown (14:55):
Yeah, certainly inline, open and inviting area
with a lot of foot traffic.
I think we keep coming back tothat Some good frontage, to kind
of highlight that in amarketing sense, but as well as
the good co-tenants Parking youneed a minimum storefront width
22 feet is our minimum width.
Brian Sheehan (15:15):
Yes, okay, probably not too hard to find
those.
Generally speaking, are thereparticular demos or incomes,
population, other things thatwould check the boxes to be a
good candidate site for SugaringLA?
Marissa Kochnover (15:29):
Yeah, I mean we're.
Obviously we use the softwarejust to understand the different
demographics of each area.
We're looking for a householdincome over $75,000.
Our software has the ability tokind of really narrow down and
understand how people in thatarea prioritize self-care and
how they're spending their money.
(15:50):
So we start to really getgranular when choosing territory
, so identify ideal locations.
Brian Sheehan (15:56):
Mind if I ask is that a proprietary software or
do you guys use something offthe shelf?
Marissa Kochnover (16:00):
We use Jivis.
Brian Sheehan (16:01):
Okay, how about your franchisee profile?
Is there a particularbackground that you like to see?
Traits experiences that wouldlend themselves to having
success with Sugaring LA.
Marissa Kochnover (16:14):
Yeah, I mean this brand is simple, it is
streamlined and it is scalable.
So it really speaks to anempire builder.
It speaks to somebody who canleverage operational
efficiencies and reallyunderstand how to grow within a
space, just because of thesimplicity within the model.
(16:36):
So we've seen that Obviouslypeople who prioritize wellness
in one way or another right.
They value putting clean,organic food and products into
their body, using on their body,and they see the demand and
understand that right.
So a respect for that.
But we also we're finding weneed somebody who has a keen eye
(16:58):
for KPIs of a business right,and can really scale a business
and lead a team, mentor a team,to be able to focus on those key
performance indicators to pushthe business in the correct
direction.
So someone who's justwell-versed in being a leader is
super helpful.
But you do not need to have anyexperience in the sugaring or
(17:23):
self-care space.
I mean you hire eithercosmetologists or estheticians,
either one.
We provide the training.
You just got to be able to leada good team.
Brian Sheehan (17:32):
Sure, and the focus on KPIs.
You've talked about that morethan maybe anyone I've
interviewed and that probablyspeaks to the value that Repim
Group helps bring to theseexciting, innovative,
fast-growing brands.
So again, we'll touch on thatin a different interview, I
guess.
Last question for you todaywhat do you need to see?
What are you looking for fromlandlord partners for Sugaring
(17:54):
LA to be successful?
Chadwick Brown (17:56):
Brian.
I'll tell you what.
Right now it's responsiveness,just being at a 17-year low.
We've got a broad net out thereand so really encouraging folks
to get multiple LOIs out for usto continue negotiations as we
move forward, just because it'ssuch a tight market and so
certainly there's some ideasaround negotiations and everyone
(18:18):
getting agreeable.
But good communications, openlines of communications and
responsiveness right now, justto get a deal to the finish line
and get closed, to get thatlease executed, is what's
important, because we're, youknow, if we've got a site
dragging out, these folks areready to get open for business
and we've got to pivot and move.
So that's that'd be the numberone thing I would say in this
market.
Brian Sheehan (18:38):
Well, Marissa Chadwick, it was great speaking
with you today.
Marissa Kochnover (18:41):
Thank you, brian, it was great.
Thank you.
Chadwick Brown (18:44):
Thank you, Brian .
Brian Sheehan (18:45):
And thank you for joining me on Retail Intel.
Be on the lookout for newSugaring LA locations opening
near you and be sure to checkthem out at wwwsugaringlacom.
Give them a follow at atsugaring LA.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
(19:07):
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
work, this podcast is yourall-access pass to the world of
commercial real estate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail IntelPodcast, send a message to
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
(19:28):
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
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