July 30, 2024 • 48 mins
In our latest episode of Retail Intel, Brian Sheehan sits down with Dave Allee, founder of Almond Surfboards. Almond Surfboards isn’t just a surf shop — they're a custom board shaper, an apparel brand, a surf product collaborator, an eCommerce business, and a community hub all rolled into one. Tune in to hear about their dynamic, multi-faceted approach to serving their customers and creating a unique surf culture experience.
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Episode Transcript
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Brian Sheehan (00:04):
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, Brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail,
the aisles of shopping centersand the world of commercial
property investment.
With me today is Dave Alley,founder of Allman Surfboards and
(00:25):
lead visionary behind the brand.
If you're not familiar withAllman Surfboards and Design,
it's a collection of surfers andcraftsmen that have built a
globally recognized lifestyleapparel brand, surfboard shaper
and producer and community hub.
Located in beautiful Costa Mesa, California, it's not just a
surf shop but a one-of-a-kindexperience and retail
(00:47):
destination, curated by Dave andhis team.
I'm excited to learn more, Dave, welcome.
Thanks for having me,Absolutely so.
I'd love to start with yourbackground.
You founded Almond Surfboardsclose to what?
15 years ago now.
What were you doing prior tofounding Almond?
Dave Allee (01:05):
Yeah, we opened a retail store here in Newport
Beach 15 years ago.
We just had our 15-yearanniversary in March, so very
recently, and before that I wasa college kid.
Congratulations, thank you,thank you.
So I was 22 years old when Isigned that lease and I had
never worked retail before a dayin my life.
I had an evolving but stillfairly vague idea of the kind of
(01:27):
brand I wanted to build.
And so, yeah, as an eager22-year-old, in the latter part
of 2008, I signed a lease andthen we opened in early 2009.
And just been trying to takebetter steps and improve the
brand marginally ever since.
Brian Sheehan (01:45):
I mean what inspired you to create Almond.
Dave Allee (01:49):
Kind of like anything.
I was an eager young surfer.
I loved surfing, surfboarddesign there's this beautiful
history of surfboard building inCalifornia but then I looked at
the brands and the retail thatwas available in the marketplace
at that time and I didn'treally feel like anyone was
doing it the way I thought itshould be done, and so that's.
(02:10):
It's always that that tensionof like, okay, if I were to do
it and I think that was likeeven in college I was running
everything I was learningthrough this hypothetical.
You know, if I were to do asurf brand, how would what I'm
learning right now apply?
So that was the filter throughwhich I kind of ran everything.
So then in 2008, there's not alot of job opportunities out
there, to be honest I didn'treally even look.
(02:32):
I was just like, oh, I'm goingto give this like almond thing a
shot for a year and then I'llkind of grow up and go get a
real job after that.
So I honestly expected to do itfor a year or two, and so
you've been doing this a longtime now.
What is it that you love aboutthe surf shop retail business,
(02:54):
the surf shops?
So we're kind of weird in thesense that, like, we are a surf
shop, we are a custom boardmanufacturer, we are an apparel
brand and we're obviously nowhave an e-commerce element as
well.
So it's like within the fold of, like the Almond brand.
We kind of have these differentexpressions that are each their
own businesses with their ownlike benefits and challenges,
but the surf shop kind ofanchors all of it and so, like,
(03:17):
our global headquarters is rightbehind our flagship store and
so everything kind of runsthrough this space.
So you might be coming in tobuy a t-shirt or coffee mug or
ask about a surfboard, andthere's eight or 10 boxed up
boards leaning on the side ofthe building waiting for the
freight company to come pickthem up.
So you're like, oh cool, thisis not just a brand presentation
, you're at Allman Surfboards,which I think is maybe a bit of
(03:40):
a throwback.
Brian Sheehan (03:41):
It's really a community hub there in Costa
Mesa, california.
I'm curious how did it all cometogether?
You've got this vision in mindfor what Allman could be.
Maybe it started out as justbeing a custom board maker, or
maybe you started with theapparel and these other things
came around it.
Or did you envision it as beingall of those things when you
created it?
Dave Allee (04:02):
I wanted to do all of it.
I think, looking at thetrajectory of the surf industry
over the last call it 60 years,like in the 50s and 60s, the
first surf shops were started byboard builders, shapers, who
were building boards under theirown label, and so they opened a
store on PCH or wherever intheir hometown to be a place
(04:26):
where people could come in andorder a surfboard, buy a
surfboard.
Then you started introducingt-shirts and branded merchandise
as these shapers and labelskind of gained reputation and
then, as the surf industrystarts growing through the 70s,
80s, you know, into the 90s andearly 2000s, like it just kind
(04:47):
of hits this crazy growth curvewhere now, instead of being
these like board builders whoare opening a shop to sell their
hard goods, it's thesemultinational, publicly traded
soft goods brands and it's it'severyone's like very quick to
kind of throw stones at themright now, particularly because
(05:08):
if you follow surf industry atall, like the board riders group
, which was quicksilver, roxy,billabong, ruka, I think dc
shoes is in there, like you know, seven or nine brands or
something had all been kind ofrolled together, as the brands
that used to be competitors hadall kind of been rolled up into
one and they just got recentlysold off to a group that is now
(05:29):
going to license them out forparts, and different categories
are going to be sub-licensed out.
So we've kind of really seenand surfer magazine stopped
producing a printed magazine acouple years ago so we've really
seen our industry grow, grow,grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.
And then the bottom fell out,and so there's a lot of
lamenting the direction that thesurf industry has gone.
(05:50):
But even in 2008, 2009, theywere still powerful.
Those brands were stillindependently owned and run,
they were still spendingmillions of dollars a year on
athletes and marketing, and evenat that point I sensed this
isn't the direction that I wishthe surf industry would have
gone.
I know why it did and I don'tnecessarily blame those folks,
(06:12):
because as you start to grow,you need to continue to grow and
you need to reach new markets,and at some point I think maybe
the tail started wagging the dogand I wanted to be able to go
back to hey, what if we had kept?
I guess even if you walk into abig surf shop today, there
might be some surfboards there,and if there are, they're in the
(06:33):
back corner.
Hard goods have become very muchan afterthought to make room
for very large skew counts ofsoft goods.
And I think the commoncriticism is you're selling surf
t-shirts to non-surfers inorder to facilitate growth.
So anyway, going back to almond, I wanted to go back to like
the old, like the Hobies andthey're like some of these old
(06:56):
time shapers from this beautifulheritage of California board
builders and like what if thatmodel had stayed?
Like where would we be today ifwe had, like, stuck with the
hard goods at the center,building a shop and a brand and
a community space around it,leaving room for growth?
I'm not just trying to be aretrospective, like we're going
(07:17):
to go relive the glory days ofsurfing and we're going to take
notes from that, we're going tomodernize it, we're going to
really understand who ourcustomer is.
How are they experiencingsurfing?
How can we add as much value tothem as possible?
But it takes a lot of patienceand we've been paddling in the
same direction for now 15 plusyears and I think we've had to
(07:41):
prioritize longevity over quickwins and there's probably been
opportunities where we couldhave fast grown.
And you know, here today, gonetomorrow a little bit, and I
didn't want to get caught up inthat.
I didn't want to lose sight ofthe hard goods kind of being at
the center of what we do, hardgoods being custom surfboards,
(08:01):
and that's really informed a lotof our decision making over the
years.
That was a very long windedanswer.
I apologize.
Brian Sheehan (08:07):
There's so much there and really what I wanted
to touch on is I think there's alot of people that might
mistakenly overlook or dismiss asurf shop as this niche retail
business or simply a lifestylebrand, and I think what they're
missing is how much innovationthere is in that space and has
had to be throughout itsexistence.
(08:29):
To your point.
Going back to the 50s and 60s,these were some of the first
lifestyle products that werecreated around a brand, and now
you're taking that into thefuture.
Dave Allee (08:39):
Yeah, and, like you said, the surfing in and of
itself is aspirational becauseit's rare.
Not only do you have to be onthe coast, you have to be in,
like these little places on thecoast where the waves hit the
beach at the right angle and theright tide and the right
direction and, you know, makesurfable waves.
So the comparison would be likesnowboarding and if you were
(09:03):
just like only doing backcountry, if there was no groomed trails
with ski lifts, it's like youknow, it's like it, it is a
fleeting thing and so, anyway,we can get into more of that
later.
But challenges in the surfspace, but it is a small total,
addressable market, if you'retalking just core surf, so
creating a lifestyle aroundthese hard goods.
Brian Sheehan (09:23):
how much of that was by necessity and by design?
You know, maybe you opened inthe 50s and 60s you're having
some success shaping boards,maybe customs, a big part of
your product lineup but did theother product categories emerge
because they had to, or do youthink a lot of those brands the
(09:45):
Hobies of the World kind ofreally also started out with
that same vision in mind?
Dave Allee (09:49):
Yeah, I think finding that right product mix
of surfboards, soft goods,extensions from that, is part of
the art and it's like an evermoving target.
And I think during seasons forus we've leaned more heavily
into apparel and cut and sew andboard shorts and jackets and we
(10:11):
got more heavily into that.
And there's other seasons whenwe're like, no, we want to kind
of lean more heavily into theboards themselves.
It's an interesting thing.
Like you know, hobie got intosailboats and sunglasses and
retail stores and clothing.
They kind of took it all sortsof different directions and
that's actually kind of been acommon thing with surf.
(10:32):
It's surf and blank.
You look at some of the brandsthat are doing well now, like
Salty Crew is surf and deep seafishing, or Seeger is surf and
kind of this cowboy aesthetic orlike as you look it's.
People are kind of pairingthese different activities and
lifestyles together with surf inorder to help grow and
(10:55):
supplement.
And even those brands when theywere at the peak of their
powers the quicksilvers, thebillabongs, the volcans it
started with surf but then itvery quickly became surf and
snowboarding and skateboardingand and they were trying to get
all board sports kind of underone roof so that they could just
reach more folks.
Brian Sheehan (11:11):
I want to come back to that last example in a
second.
I'm curious what season are youin now and why?
Dave Allee (11:17):
So we I'd say from 2012 to 2015,.
It's kind of when we werereally leaning into the apparel
and soft good stuff and our SKUcount got very large.
The brands that I've alwaysliked are very like evergreen,
timeless.
You can count on them to makethe same kind of products year
after year.
(11:37):
There's not a lot of likeseasonal changeover, and the
part of that world that I likethe least personally is spring
collection, summer collection,fall collection, holiday.
You're just constantlyreinventing to fill a line sheet
.
That part to me is just liketoo fast.
You're designing to fill a linesheet rather than designing to
fill a customer need.
(11:58):
So I guess I'm kind of an oldsoul in this way, where I'm like
I want to be very like, I wantto be known for particular
products and I want to likecontinue to tweak and refine
those products.
But I want to take a long viewwith the way we develop our
stuff.
Being hard goods centric.
We spent three years behind thescenes developing a basically
(12:19):
what ends up being kind of afoam board, like a soft top
version of our custom surfboardmodels.
So it was three years ofdevelopment.
It was kind of different thanwhat how other people have
approached making a soft board.
So what that board did for uswas it allowed us to have a
(12:40):
board that was about half theprice of our custom boards.
It only comes in four sizes,it's durable, it's recyclable,
it's made in the USA.
It's like where there can be alot of maybe menu panic when you
go to order a surfboard.
People come in like I don'twant to order the wrong thing.
This is a big investment.
Making something that was alittle more entry level was like
(13:02):
hey, if you're looking to learnhow to surf, this is the board
for you.
If you've been learning how tosurf and you want to start
exploring more parts of the waveand have a little bit more
control and maneuverability,this is the one for you.
If you want to have one, you canjust bring the beach with you
and just lay it down in the sandand then all of a sudden when
you realize like, oh, now iswhen I want to paddle out, you
know, take this little five footfour one, really making an
(13:24):
entry level version, because weaim to be a premium brand and we
don't make any apologies forthat, but the R series line
allowed us to kind of have amore entry level product to
reach a broader audience, andthat is what I would say took us
substantially up in our abilityto just grow and have a viable,
(13:46):
flourishing, hard goods-centricbusiness, which traditional
wisdom in my industry would bethat you can't do that.
Everyone would tell you youcannot build a business based on
hard goods.
The margins aren't good enough,it can't be done.
So we've been paddling againstthe current in that way of
stubbornly either ignorantly orstubbornly deciding like no,
(14:09):
this is where we want to kind ofhang our hat.
Brian Sheehan (14:12):
So part of my background is in the world of
luxury brands and retail andmight not jump out at you, but I
think there's some similaritiesthere.
And you talked about being apremium brand, and yet you felt
the need to create anentry-level product, and when
you're a small format quoteunquote retailer, you've got a
(14:33):
limited product line.
It's not the world's biggestsurf shop, but you do a really
wonderful job merchandising it.
I guess I'm curious how youthink about that.
You know need to stay, you know, at a premium kind of brand
level.
That's part of your identity,but then also the desire to move
in that direction, and maybe acorollary would be how some
(14:57):
luxury brands might carrycertain soft goods that you know
allow you to gain entry to thatbrand's world.
In your case, though, it's oneof your key product categories.
Dave Allee (15:11):
Yeah, and the luxury one is an interesting
comparison because we are veryspecialty retail.
For us to be going back to theretail side of things, for us to
be in a mall with high, high,high foot traffic, it would
change the types of productsthat we would need to make.
It would change kind of thefocus of the brand to service a
(15:33):
broader customer base that'scoming in with less of a idea of
who we are.
So I would say we've justembraced the fact that we're
very destination driven.
We do get foot traffic but forthe most part people have seen
us online.
They're familiar with ourboards, they know we have a
(15:54):
store and they are seeking usout.
They are coming to Californiafor a surf trip and they're like
I've been following you guysonline for years, I'm just so
excited to finally see it inperson and so they might take
home a t-shirt or a hat or acoffee mug as part of their trip
to California.
Or they're coming in like, hey,I'm here, I'm ready to order my
(16:16):
custom surfboard.
I've been saving up for this.
This is a big deal for me.
Let's sit down and have a25-minute conversation to get
them to write up their perfectcustom surfboard and that that
custom surfboard exchange is ahuge part of what occurs in our
retail space.
And anyway, going back to theluxury thing, it's like how do
(16:37):
you be both like premium and insome ways there's a lot of
parallels with like a luxuryshopping experience where it's
not like overly merchandised butalso be approachable, because
surf shops have this manydecades long reputation for
being like?
I don't want to ask the wrongquestion, I don't want to be
dumb.
You know, there's a couple ofguys behind the sales counter
(16:58):
who were just goofing off and itseems like maybe I'm
inconveniencing them by beinghere Like we hear that a lot, or
especially in the early days weheard that a lot like whoa.
You know, I'm so used to goinginto a surf shop and feeling
like I'm intruding and there'sjust floor to ceiling product,
wall to wall product.
But when you come into Allmanit's meant to feel a little bit
more homey and inviting andwe're here to have a discussion
(17:22):
and so there's a personalizationthat happens there.
Our customer relationships aremuch longer.
We have customers who've beencoming and ordering surfboards
for most of our 15-year history,or all of our 15-year history.
I still have customers that Imet at our grand opening party
in March of 2009.
And so we're kind of growingwith them.
(17:46):
Surfboards range from 4'10 to 11feet and everything in the
middle, so during differentseasons for different conditions
, people have multiple boardsand like, when it's small,
they're going to write a bigboard, when it's bigger, they're
going to write a smaller board.
And so we're kind of growingwith them and equipping them,
(18:07):
like whether it's equipping themphysically with the gear or
equipping them with the kind ofknowledge and surf tips and
surfboard design theory wherewe're really like aiming to help
people.
If they start with that eightfoot softboard, we're going to
guide them through theirmulti-year journey of becoming a
well-rounded surfer with a, youknow, diverse quiver of boards.
(18:30):
And one of the fun things forus is like the boards that we
build are going to go see faroff beaches and places that we
will never visit with our owntwo feet and eyes.
But it's a fun part of knowinglike cool we are now part of
your journey because we'reequipping you to be able to go
and do this thing that you'vebeen dreaming of for years and
years.
Brian Sheehan (18:50):
Yeah, I was thinking about how you describe
it and it seems like yourproduct mix is just very curated
and I guess I'm hoping youcould talk a little bit about
the balance between wanting tomaximize the footprint of your
real estate you know, havingenough products to drive a
dollar per square foot in termsof sales number but also wanting
(19:12):
it, like you said, to feelapproachable, to have an
interesting mix of products andnot be overwhelmed by it when
you come into the shop.
Because you said, to feelapproachable, to have an
interesting mix of products andnot be overwhelmed by it when
you come into the shop, becauseyou guys have a really great
balance of that, yeah, and it'sfunny like I tease myself when
I'm talking about almond.
Dave Allee (19:27):
It's like we don't really measure things in dollars
per square foot like atraditional retailer should.
Part of that is because thevariance is so high when you
have high ticket items, like acustom longboard for a must
could be $2,000.
So then when you're you've got$35 t-shirts, you've got $12
coffee mugs, you've got $25 hats, then you've got $600 soft tops
(19:50):
and $2,000 custom boards, solike the variance can be pretty
high.
So I think we start looking atmaybe, so the variance can be
(20:18):
pretty high.
So I think we start looking atmaybe broader time horizons,
year-over-year sales, monthlythere is a season rhythms to
help facilitate that.
Like one of the things we do islike we are building stock
boards to fill the racks of thestore every week.
So every Friday we send out anemail saying it's new board
Friday.
Look at the new stock boardsthat came in this week and
you're just kind of I don't wantto say training your customer,
but you're just kind of likebuilding that rhythm in with
them where they know everyFriday they're going to get an
(20:38):
email showing off all the newboards that came in that week.
And so when things are goinggood, those boards are selling
that weekend and then you getnew ones again the next week and
it helps to keep things feelingfresh and new.
And fortunately, surfboards arekind of in the realm of cars
and guitars, where people justlike to look at them, so you
don't feel as though you'respamming your customers by
(21:00):
sending them an email everycouple of days with new things
that we're up to or new boardsthat we're working on, because
it's ever evolving and growing.
But in terms of the storemerchandising itself, obviously
surfboards is like 70% of ourbusiness, so it's visually going
to be the predominant thing inour store.
And then all of the classic softgoods things hats, teas, coffee
(21:24):
, mugs some of those categoriesare like the next most important
board shorts or the next mostimportant things for us.
So just making sure that we'remerchandising it well in a way
that's like pulling in the partsof the surfing experience that
maybe you don't see in there.
Like historically, we've almostalways had a projector playing
(21:44):
our like vimeo reel of our surfvideos happening in there.
There will be some shapingfootage.
My friend scott makes theseawesome flags that are kind of
mementos for your favorite surfspots and that's a really good
product category for us as well.
So it's like there's not a lotof mementos for your favorite
surf spots, and that's a reallygood product category for us as
well.
So it's like there's not a lotof mementos to take home from
your favorite surf break.
In fact, I think you have oneon the wall behind you San
(22:06):
Onofre right there.
Yeah, san Onofre.
So yeah, just pulling in thebest parts of the surfing
experience so that when you walkin you feel as though you're
somewhere where you're welcome.
But there is like a certainlike level of consideration
that's been put into the space.
It doesn't hopefully doesn'tlook haphazard and it's like we
(22:27):
take we don't take surfing tooseriously, but we, I think we
take it just seriously enough.
We love the activity, we lovethe like craftsmanship of it and
we want to walk that fine lineof craftsmanship timeless
aesthetics and yet stillapproachable so many lessons
there for retailers and brandstoday, I guess it makes me
(22:51):
curious what's the hardest partabout running when surfboards
are running your shop?
I would say staffing likestaffing.
There's a lot to know to workhere, because people are going
to come in and they want to talkboard design theory and if
they're making this bigpurchasing decision, they want
to feel comfortable andconfident.
So for us, it's asking theright questions.
(23:11):
We have to know our productreally well.
So we've, you know, needing tosurf the boards that we make and
be able to speak to that verypersonally.
So finding, like the rightpeople who can provide that
experience that we want peopleto have has been a challenge.
I mean, yeah, I'd say thatthat's one.
(23:31):
And just continuing to innovate, continuing to come out with
new products Like again thattimelessness, versus continuing
to like push the envelope andhave new things and new reasons,
and so collaborations becomes apart of that.
Surfboard design innovationbecomes a part of that.
Just trying to continue tounderstand and meet the needs of
not only our customers but ourvery best customers.
Brian Sheehan (23:56):
So that leads me to this topic, or point which
you touched on earlier.
Surfshops are so iconic, andone thing that I really love
about being in them is how manyhistorical reference points
there are in the shop.
There's old boards, there'sphotos maybe your favorite break
and many brands you mentionedFord have survived and, to my
(24:19):
view, look like they're thrivingtoday, but so many others have
closed, and you mentioned acouple of those the roll up of
these large, iconic brands, andso I guess I'm curious to hear
your thoughts about how do youremain relevant, and part of the
answer it sounded like you weregoing in the direction of.
(24:41):
You know, we have tried to stayfocused on our core mission,
which you had a vision of fromthe start.
Dave Allee (24:48):
Yeah, and as we look ahead as a brand and as a surf
shop, I think information hasmaybe been like really
commoditized and it's like wedon't want to really compete in
the.
We're going to outspend otherbrands on Instagram ads, for
example.
We're not going to keep jumpingon every new digital trend
(25:11):
because that space is moving sofast.
So we've actually kind of likeleaned more into our monthly
surf meetups and giving away asmuch free content as possible.
It might seem counterintuitive,but we have downloadable
surfboard templates on ourwebsite for free, where, if you
want to try building your ownsurfboard, here's at least a
(25:32):
like headstart Download thistemplate, take it to the little
FedEx office in your hometown,print it out and build your own,
or come surf with us once amonth.
It's not really a board demo,but it's kind of a board demo.
We'll drag a bunch of boardsdown, you bring your own, we'll
bring a hot thing of coffee andwe'll just do a monthly surf
meetup.
So leaning into the places whereI feel like the other brands
(25:56):
aren't is always something thatwe're looking at.
Obviously, recurring revenuelike subscription businesses,
rental programs, membershipthings it's always something
we're flirting with.
I think we're just maybegeographically we're five
minutes, six minutes from thebeach.
But I think if we were at thethe beach physically, we would
(26:17):
have a locker room and a rack ofdemo boards and hot showers and
a coffee shop and it would belike going to the ski mountain.
Come here and we'll equip youfor going and surfing right out
front.
I used to dream of, likethere's a spot in the blackies
parking lot which is a surf spothere in town, like what if we?
were to take over the blackies,like this spot in the blackies
parking lot and which is a surfspot here in town.
(26:37):
What if we were to take overthis spot in the Blackies
parking lot and you're, justlike, this is our spot, park out
front, we have everything youneed.
Go, have fun, come back.
But that's a very differentbusiness model and that would be
very brick and mortar being nowthe anchor of our business,
where I think building products,product innovation is kind of
(26:58):
where we've chosen to put ourfocus.
But yeah, like again thecommunity building side of
things, giving away free contentWe've got all these free eBooks
on our website of Almond'sGuide to your First Year of
Surfing.
Here's everything we can thinkto tell the novice surfer.
Almond's Guide to Nose Ridersand Longboards here's everything
we can think to share aboutdesign of nose riders and long
boards.
Here's everything we can thinkto share about design of nose
riders and long boards and howto get the most out of it.
(27:20):
Like really investing in ourcommunity in a way that builds
their trust and helps equip themfor their journey.
Brian Sheehan (27:28):
There's no real good substitute for high quality
community engagement.
Dave Allee (27:33):
Yeah, I think so, and I think it's right now, in
2024, 2024, that is more of aneed than more noise interesting
.
Brian Sheehan (27:43):
I wanted to talk a little bit, spend a little bit
of time talking about thephysical store itself and I
really love the environment,from the colors to how it's laid
out.
You maximize a fairly smallfootprint.
I wonder if you'd talk a littlebit about your goals for
(28:03):
creating the store, how that'schanged over time, the physical
design of it, those kinds ofthings.
Dave Allee (28:11):
So I should say we've moved twice in our 15-year
history.
So we were in a very small450-square-foot spot on Old
Newport Boulevard.
Then we moved to a bigger900-square-foot spot on Pacific
Coast Highway, which was highvisibility, poor parking, people
were driving by your store atlike 50.
So it's like, oh, there wentall of them.
(28:32):
So then in 2015, we moved hereto Costa Mesa standalone
building with its own front lawn, which is very rare, and a
private parking lot behind, andwe shared this center with a
barbershop and a landscapearchitect.
And then there's adrive-through convenience store
on the other side of the nextdriveway down, but it's the same
(28:52):
complex.
So this space, being astandalone building with a big
front lawn, felt very nostalgicto me, of like kind of the
iconic surf shops that I alwaysadmire in old black and white
photos.
So when you walk in big redwoodslab table rack of custom boards
, product both from it's a lotof our products.
(29:16):
It's not a lot of secondhandbrands.
We're not like bringing in aton of products by the people.
We will bring in select piecesfrom some brands that we have
personal relationships with thatare just categories that we
aren't going to developourselves, that are kind of
necessities, sunscreen, evensome of the more technical
apparel stuff board bags butalthough, like most of it's
(29:38):
almond branded steps when you'recoming in here, it's it's very
vertically integrated.
It's you're at the almond shop.
Yeah, so our space.
Now we actually I don't know ifyou when I said you were here
was, but we cut down thefootprint of the store by adding
a retaining wall in thereearlier this year in like
january, february, so that nowyou can kind of stand in the
(29:59):
entranceway and it's like thewhole brand is laid out in front
of you.
You can we pretty much fit thesame amount of product in about
60 percent amount of space.
So the merchandising is alittle more purposeful.
But it's really like you'restepping into the brand
experience.
It's a three-dimensional fivecents like okay, cool, I can
understand.
Like the brand experience it'sa three-dimensional five cents,
like okay, cool, I canunderstand.
Like the brand that I've nowstepped into more so than it is
(30:22):
like a ton of SKUs that aretrying to just service foot
traffic customer.
Brian Sheehan (30:29):
Anyone that's doing retail exceptionally well
today, I think, has accomplishedthat Totally.
There's no substitute for beingimmersed in the vision of the
brand.
How big of a store is it?
How many square feet?
Dave Allee (30:44):
now that we've cut it down, I would say it's like
we're back down to, like itbeing six or seven hundred
square feet, it's not very bigand you said you don't really
track sales per square foot.
Brian Sheehan (30:55):
Can you talk at all about kind of sales at a
high level perspective, whatkind of revenue a store does?
I don't know if you know anymetrics for the industry, if
that's something that you guystrack closely.
Dave Allee (31:08):
I don't have really insights to like industry
standards, but I can tell youfrom our perspective we kind of
fall in that like two to $3million a year range.
A good portion of that isonline, so we're probably 70%
online, 30% in store and thatjust the nature of the products
that we build being big, largesurfboards like it's something
(31:29):
that A of all customers want tocome and see in person and B
while we do ship tons of boards,it's like being able to come to
the shop pick up your board.
It's part of the kind ofromantic experience I think of
custom surfboards.
So we want to make thatexperience memorable in a good
way for people.
If you order a custom board,you might wait six to eight
(31:51):
weeks longer, depending on whoyou order it from.
So going to pick that thing upit's a big deal, and so we don't
want to have that transactionhappening in a 7-Eleven parking
lot.
Brian Sheehan (32:03):
Back to the luxury example.
A lot of those fashion housestreat and view a physical store
as a marketing expense.
I'm curious what percentage ofsales?
The hard goods are there, butdo you view it similarly?
Dave Allee (32:18):
In certain seasons I have, and I think that thinking
just kind of evolves and shifts.
The landscape of our industryis just like many industries has
just changed a lot over thelast four or five years.
So, coming out of thepost-COVID recreational boom, we
were fully just online.
(32:38):
We were just shipping boardsevery single day as fast as we
could get them out the door.
But now the dust has settled.
We're kind of in thispost-spike hangover period,
getting back to our roots,reinvesting in the community,
reinvesting in events at thestore.
We just had a pop-up event onSaturday morning this past
weekend where this gal broughtthese big ice baths and a sauna
(33:01):
on a trailer and a coffee pop-up.
She sold tickets and it wasjust like this huge event on the
front lawn of the store and itbrought I think she sold 150
tickets and that was all we hadto do was say here's a hose to
fill up your ice bath tank andwe probably did a thousand bucks
in just small merchandise salesfrom the people that this
brought in.
And I came by with my daughterand looked around the event.
(33:23):
I was like I don't recognize asoul at this event, which is
great.
It brought 150 people who Idon't think have ever been in my
store before and that was avery productive thing.
You do things like that and thesurf meetups and little coffee
pop-ups.
And we did a collaboration lastyear with a brand out of Austin
Texas called Howler Brotherswhere we made some co-branded
(33:44):
product together and you knowthey threw a great party.
They had a DJ and a food, ataco truck and bartender and
they got all these drinks.
You know contributed to thething and you know contributed
the thing and you knowreinvesting in some of those
things has been part of this,like post-ecom boom and us
finding our way.
I talked to a ton of otherbrands, either in our space or
(34:06):
similar kind of expressions butand everyone's kind of trying to
figure out like, where do we gonext?
And the in-person stuff hasbeen good and refreshing and, I
think, needed for both thecustomer and us as a brand.
Brian Sheehan (34:20):
This next seems to be working really well for
you guys.
I'm curious what you think iscoming.
What's the next next?
Dave Allee (34:27):
The next next for us , I think, or I think the next
next just in general, isdoubling down on the community
thing.
I don't want to tip my hand toomuch here, but I think there's
a lot of social media fatiguewhere every small brand or
business whether you're arestaurant or an apparel brand
(34:50):
or whoever you've had to becomea media company over the last
number of years and so you'reshouting a lot of stuff out into
the void, hoping that thealmighty algorithm is going to
like what you're putting out andyou're chasing this kind of
moving target.
And I think there's a lot offatigue around that, both from
(35:12):
the consumer side and I thinkwe're seeing a lot of the
downsides of that running theworld and from the brand side
with every new innovation.
There's like this period whereit was very efficient to get new
customers by pouring a bunch ofthe meta ads.
You could get a lot of newcustomers very inexpensively,
and now we've seen return on adspend drop and that seems like
(35:36):
that world's kind of all overthe place and organic reach has
really dropped.
So I think there's a lot offatigue there.
So we're now trying to figureout like okay, what's the next
thing, instead of us shouting atour customers, hoping to reach
them.
How do we get our customers toengage with us, with each other?
How do we create a little morelike, pocket of like hey, this
(36:00):
space is meant for these kind ofconversations Go and allow
there to be a little more crosspollination, because whether
it's surfboard design or travel,the reach of our customer base
now is global and certainlyspread all over both coasts of
the United States or theNortheast.
How do we get them to connectwith other almond customers who
live there, know the best spotfor a breakfast burrito, know
(36:33):
the best time of year to go surfthere?
How do we start to create agenuine exchange of just
community and not have to alwaysplay gatekeeper or just us
shouting from a megaphone?
So that's kind of where we'reheaded, but I think there's a
lot of untapped potential thereand there's a couple of brands
in other industries who aredoing it and it's something that
(36:57):
fascinates us a lot.
Brian Sheehan (36:59):
Who are some of the brands you're thinking of
that are doing that now?
Dave Allee (37:02):
Are you familiar with Random Golf Club in Austin,
Texas?
It's like a smaller golf brand.
I don't know.
I say smaller, I have no idea.
It's a small-ish golf brandfrom austin.
It's very like heavilyfounder-led.
It's got eric anders lang islike the founder and face of the
brand, but they've done a goodjob of cultivating.
I think their motto is like aglobal community of local
(37:25):
golfers and like they've done agood job of cultivating
community around golf in a againkind of like what we talk, the
way we talk about surfing, likethey don't take it too seriously
but they take it maybe justseriously enough and so that's
probably the best example that Ican think of of like a brand
that's doing that well and Ithink that that helps drive a
(37:45):
lot of the things that they do.
And like they're very active onyoutube and they do a lot of
meetups and like I saw some oneridiculous thing where they had
like instead of a foursome itwas like a 50 some and they had
like 50 people play a round ofgolf together.
I don't I'm not a golfer, Idon't actually know how that
worked, but there's a level oflike creativity required to do
(38:05):
that kind of stuff that I Iadmire, even as a non golfer.
Brian Sheehan (38:09):
I love it.
I am a golfer.
I'm definitely going to checkthem out.
I wanted to try a new segmentwith you, Dave.
If you're comfortable with thisjust going to throw some rapid
fire questions at you, Okay,let's do it All right.
Favorite Southern Californiasurf spot.
Dave Allee (38:24):
San Onofre.
It's not where I go the most,but if I had to pick a favorite,
san Onofre.
Brian Sheehan (38:29):
What's your favorite surf destination?
Maybe outside of SouthernCalifornia?
Dave Allee (38:33):
Anywhere that has a long left point break.
So I'd say the famous oneswould be like New Zealand or
Peru or a bunch of places Ihaven't been yet, but a long
left point would be my dreamsurf destination.
Brian Sheehan (38:47):
What's your current favorite product in the
Omen catalog?
Dave Allee (38:51):
I'm always like most excited about the new stuff
we're working on.
So we've got some new surfboardmodels that we're kind of
developing that are in thetesting phase right now.
So I'm always like lookingahead to like what's coming next
on the pipeline.
But I'd say the R-Series, thosefoamies I was talking about
earlier that's probably theproduct that I'm most proud of,
but yeah, it's still it's boards.
Brian Sheehan (39:12):
A couple of questions about favorite other
brands, one of those being, ifyou weren't shopping at Almond,
what's your favorite other surfshop you visit?
Dave Allee (39:21):
So favorite surf shop.
It's amazing how few surf shopsI go in.
There's a shop on the Oregoncoast called Moment Surf Company
and it's in Pacific few surfshops I go in.
There's a shop on the oregoncoast called moment surf company
and it's in pacific city,oregon.
It's a small shop but they'vedone a really good job of like
packing a lot of product inthere and it's kind of what I
was referring to earlier.
It's like it's like right infront of the surf break and
(39:43):
because it's on the oregon coast, it's cold and rugged and you
have to like really want to be asurfer there.
So I think there's an inherentlike oh, you too, yeah, like
just a common understandingbetween like surfers when you're
in colder water.
So I'd say moment surf companyprobably would be my favorite
surf shop.
I've been to it.
(40:03):
It feels very like a differentreality from Southern California
Crowded, very developed, andthere's a Pelican Brewing.
It's like right next door.
So that doesn't hurt either.
So it's a cool setup.
Brian Sheehan (40:18):
How about favorite other brand?
You mentioned Random Golf Club.
Dave Allee (40:23):
Favorite other brand .
I like Buck Mason, just likeelevated basics.
I think they do a beautiful jobwith their stores.
I like Seavey's shoes.
They've like again taken thisvery kind of nostalgic, timeless
California approach.
Their stores have a lot of veryeclectic things that they've
collected over the years andthen Slightly Choppy.
(40:45):
My buddy Scott, who does thesurf flags Everything he does is
like really cool and originaland authentic feeling.
I really like what he's doingwith Slightly Choppy.
Brian Sheehan (40:55):
Last question in this little rapid fire segment
inland surf and wave parks.
Are you a fan, Are yousupportive?
Dave Allee (41:02):
This is a controversial take, I guess, but
I'm very much in favor of.
I've been very fascinated bythe technology of surf parks and
wave pools over the lastseveral years.
I don't think the expansion hashappened nearly as quickly as
most would have expected andit's happening way faster in
(41:24):
Europe than it is here, but Ithink it's good.
I don't think it replacessurfing, but there's so many
days when I would just kill forany little bump or clean wave to
ride and it's just it's windyor it's flat, or it's the middle
of summer and it's crowded.
And you know, in Newport theyjust blackball it, which means
no hardboards.
So I think having a controlledwave pool that you can go surf
(41:50):
whenever you want only does goodthings for surfing, for us as
surfers, and I'm excited to seethere's a bunch of projects like
in various stages ofdevelopment in the us right now.
Brian Sheehan (42:02):
So I'm excited to see more of those like open up
and start pumping waves throughdo you see that part of the
industry changing anything forAlmond Vision, creating new
products, or do you feel likeAlmond could service that
customer equally well as it istoday?
Dave Allee (42:21):
I think.
So it kind of comes down tolike what style of waves these
parks are going after.
We didn't really touch on thisbut like the boards that we
build are kind of like we say,exceptional surfboards for
everyday waves, so like we'repretty realistic about the fact
that it's usually two feet andor you know, waist high and
decent on any given day inSouthern California.
(42:43):
So we're really building boardsfor having a really good time
in marginal conditions.
We're not building highperformance surfboards for high
performance surfing in criticalwaves.
There's a whole industry aroundthat.
That's not our reality day today, so that's not the products
that we build.
But as people are building wavepools, they're trying to build
the best wave possible.
(43:03):
So I think we would have tocontinue to push things a little
bit more progressive, to reallylike service that customer or
you know you're looking at likethe R-series line of like, hey,
this is a great board forbuilding confidence if you only
surf a couple times a year or ifyou're really just getting your
feet wet, helping that kind oflike intermediate surfer to
(43:24):
progress.
It only creates moreopportunity for us, I should say
.
Brian Sheehan (43:28):
Okay, fair enough .
And then, thinking about thefuture, are you planning to open
additional locations?
What are your growth goals?
Dave Allee (43:37):
We get asked all the time about our interest in
opening a second location.
Every time there's a newdevelopment that's getting close
to completion we usually get acall and a pitch deck and you
know to.
They're looking for likeinteresting, visually
stimulating retail to pull in.
We have not really entertainedany of those things up to this
(43:58):
point.
I think for us to do a secondlocation it would have to be
adjacent to waves and I wouldwant there to be some element of
a surf club membership, likeI've thought through like how I
would do that model quite a bitover the last several years, so
it would have to have like asurf club element to it for us
(44:20):
to really sink our teeth into asecond location.
If it was just strictly retail,I don't know that we're built
for it right now as anindependently owned surf brand
what are your growth goals overthe next five years?
great question depends on howmuch we want to.
You know, if we're talkingabout that like 70 30 hard goods
(44:41):
to soft goods split, like if wewant to start growing that soft
goods to catch up to the levelthat the hard goods is at and be
more at like a 50-50 productmix, I think that's where the
growth could come from.
But we have a couple ofcollaborations coming in the
next several months that aregoing to be really good for us
and it'll be interesting to seewhat new doors that those open.
(45:03):
But they're very.
It's a mix of both hard goodsand soft goods, but we're going
to let some of the unexpectedopportunities that have come our
way kind of drive our growthover at least the next 18 months
and then we'll kind of seewhere the dust settles and what
opportunities exist after that.
Every time I make a plan, somenew thing that's better comes
(45:26):
along.
So we have to be nimble andadaptable.
Brian Sheehan (45:29):
That's interesting.
You know, what really piqued mycuriosity is how you know your
expansion ideas and creating aclub being at the beach.
I think a lot about that kindof membership club model, being
able to store beach Like here'sa great example.
You know I'll be out thereagain at a certain point and I
could really use a short-termrental.
(45:50):
I'd love to come in, buy aboard from you, have a place I
could keep it.
I'm out there three or fourtimes a year.
You know, usually I'm likerenting or I'm demoing a board
and then have a place to stay.
That's a part of that.
You know you're starting to seethis kind of happen in that
world where hospitality and agreat coffee shop and I can get
(46:10):
a taco and I in fact, every timeI go to your place I'm thinking
like man, if there was a littleplace to grab a coffee in here,
I would totally do that too,you know.
Dave Allee (46:19):
Yeah, one of the draws for us to move here.
But sidecar donuts is directlyacross the street and I've known
the owner of that for a longtime, so I felt like opening
coffee in our space.
In addition, to like theplumbing requirements that that
would have taken was like flyingdirectly against my
relationship with Sumter.
So it is right there, but it'slike I do think some of the best
(46:42):
surf shops that people point tonowadays are have combined
coffee with surfing, and youknow, whether it saturdays in
new york city, or there's a shophere in town called daydream
that like people just like tohang out at, because it is
that's tricky too, because it'smostly a coffee shop yeah, I've
been in there.
Brian Sheehan (47:02):
they do they.
They get a big crowd, yeah,yeah, what's interesting is I
have not bought a lot of otherproducts from them, whereas in
your shop, you know, I am moreimmersed in the brand and feel
like your communications keep meengaged, and so usually I pick
up a few things when I'm there,whereas Daydream.
I am really just in there toget something to eat and kind of
(47:22):
hang out, and you know the vibe.
Dave Allee (47:25):
I think that's common.
I think most people think of itas a coffee shop with like this
surf appendage yeah, absolutelyWell, dave, it was great
speaking with you today.
Brian Sheehan (47:37):
Thank you for joining me on Retail Intel.
It's me Be sure to check themout in person in Costa Mesa and
on Instagram at almondsurfboards.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
work, this podcast is your allaccess pass to the world of
(47:58):
commercial real estate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail Intelpodcast, send a message to
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, Brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail,
the aisles of shopping centersand the world of commercial
property investment.
With me today is Dave Alley,founder of Allman Surfboards and
(00:25):
lead visionary behind the brand.
If you're not familiar withAllman Surfboards and Design,
it's a collection of surfers andcraftsmen that have built a
globally recognized lifestyleapparel brand, surfboard shaper
and producer and community hub.
Located in beautiful Costa Mesa, California, it's not just a
surf shop but a one-of-a-kindexperience and retail
(00:47):
destination, curated by Dave andhis team.
I'm excited to learn more, Dave, welcome.
Thanks for having me,Absolutely so.
I'd love to start with yourbackground.
You founded Almond Surfboardsclose to what?
15 years ago now.
What were you doing prior tofounding Almond?
Dave Allee (01:05):
Yeah, we opened a retail store here in Newport
Beach 15 years ago.
We just had our 15-yearanniversary in March, so very
recently, and before that I wasa college kid.
Congratulations, thank you,thank you.
So I was 22 years old when Isigned that lease and I had
never worked retail before a dayin my life.
I had an evolving but stillfairly vague idea of the kind of
(01:27):
brand I wanted to build.
And so, yeah, as an eager22-year-old, in the latter part
of 2008, I signed a lease andthen we opened in early 2009.
And just been trying to takebetter steps and improve the
brand marginally ever since.
Brian Sheehan (01:45):
I mean what inspired you to create Almond.
Dave Allee (01:49):
Kind of like anything.
I was an eager young surfer.
I loved surfing, surfboarddesign there's this beautiful
history of surfboard building inCalifornia but then I looked at
the brands and the retail thatwas available in the marketplace
at that time and I didn'treally feel like anyone was
doing it the way I thought itshould be done, and so that's.
(02:10):
It's always that that tensionof like, okay, if I were to do
it and I think that was likeeven in college I was running
everything I was learningthrough this hypothetical.
You know, if I were to do asurf brand, how would what I'm
learning right now apply?
So that was the filter throughwhich I kind of ran everything.
So then in 2008, there's not alot of job opportunities out
there, to be honest I didn'treally even look.
(02:32):
I was just like, oh, I'm goingto give this like almond thing a
shot for a year and then I'llkind of grow up and go get a
real job after that.
So I honestly expected to do itfor a year or two, and so
you've been doing this a longtime now.
What is it that you love aboutthe surf shop retail business,
(02:54):
the surf shops?
So we're kind of weird in thesense that, like, we are a surf
shop, we are a custom boardmanufacturer, we are an apparel
brand and we're obviously nowhave an e-commerce element as
well.
So it's like within the fold of, like the Almond brand.
We kind of have these differentexpressions that are each their
own businesses with their ownlike benefits and challenges,
but the surf shop kind ofanchors all of it and so, like,
(03:17):
our global headquarters is rightbehind our flagship store and
so everything kind of runsthrough this space.
So you might be coming in tobuy a t-shirt or coffee mug or
ask about a surfboard, andthere's eight or 10 boxed up
boards leaning on the side ofthe building waiting for the
freight company to come pickthem up.
So you're like, oh cool, thisis not just a brand presentation
, you're at Allman Surfboards,which I think is maybe a bit of
(03:40):
a throwback.
Brian Sheehan (03:41):
It's really a community hub there in Costa
Mesa, california.
I'm curious how did it all cometogether?
You've got this vision in mindfor what Allman could be.
Maybe it started out as justbeing a custom board maker, or
maybe you started with theapparel and these other things
came around it.
Or did you envision it as beingall of those things when you
created it?
Dave Allee (04:02):
I wanted to do all of it.
I think, looking at thetrajectory of the surf industry
over the last call it 60 years,like in the 50s and 60s, the
first surf shops were started byboard builders, shapers, who
were building boards under theirown label, and so they opened a
store on PCH or wherever intheir hometown to be a place
(04:26):
where people could come in andorder a surfboard, buy a
surfboard.
Then you started introducingt-shirts and branded merchandise
as these shapers and labelskind of gained reputation and
then, as the surf industrystarts growing through the 70s,
80s, you know, into the 90s andearly 2000s, like it just kind
(04:47):
of hits this crazy growth curvewhere now, instead of being
these like board builders whoare opening a shop to sell their
hard goods, it's thesemultinational, publicly traded
soft goods brands and it's it'severyone's like very quick to
kind of throw stones at themright now, particularly because
(05:08):
if you follow surf industry atall, like the board riders group
, which was quicksilver, roxy,billabong, ruka, I think dc
shoes is in there, like you know, seven or nine brands or
something had all been kind ofrolled together, as the brands
that used to be competitors hadall kind of been rolled up into
one and they just got recentlysold off to a group that is now
(05:29):
going to license them out forparts, and different categories
are going to be sub-licensed out.
So we've kind of really seenand surfer magazine stopped
producing a printed magazine acouple years ago so we've really
seen our industry grow, grow,grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.
And then the bottom fell out,and so there's a lot of
lamenting the direction that thesurf industry has gone.
(05:50):
But even in 2008, 2009, theywere still powerful.
Those brands were stillindependently owned and run,
they were still spendingmillions of dollars a year on
athletes and marketing, and evenat that point I sensed this
isn't the direction that I wishthe surf industry would have
gone.
I know why it did and I don'tnecessarily blame those folks,
(06:12):
because as you start to grow,you need to continue to grow and
you need to reach new markets,and at some point I think maybe
the tail started wagging the dogand I wanted to be able to go
back to hey, what if we had kept?
I guess even if you walk into abig surf shop today, there
might be some surfboards there,and if there are, they're in the
(06:33):
back corner.
Hard goods have become very muchan afterthought to make room
for very large skew counts ofsoft goods.
And I think the commoncriticism is you're selling surf
t-shirts to non-surfers inorder to facilitate growth.
So anyway, going back to almond, I wanted to go back to like
the old, like the Hobies andthey're like some of these old
(06:56):
time shapers from this beautifulheritage of California board
builders and like what if thatmodel had stayed?
Like where would we be today ifwe had, like, stuck with the
hard goods at the center,building a shop and a brand and
a community space around it,leaving room for growth?
I'm not just trying to be aretrospective, like we're going
(07:17):
to go relive the glory days ofsurfing and we're going to take
notes from that, we're going tomodernize it, we're going to
really understand who ourcustomer is.
How are they experiencingsurfing?
How can we add as much value tothem as possible?
But it takes a lot of patienceand we've been paddling in the
same direction for now 15 plusyears and I think we've had to
(07:41):
prioritize longevity over quickwins and there's probably been
opportunities where we couldhave fast grown.
And you know, here today, gonetomorrow a little bit, and I
didn't want to get caught up inthat.
I didn't want to lose sight ofthe hard goods kind of being at
the center of what we do, hardgoods being custom surfboards,
(08:01):
and that's really informed a lotof our decision making over the
years.
That was a very long windedanswer.
I apologize.
Brian Sheehan (08:07):
There's so much there and really what I wanted
to touch on is I think there's alot of people that might
mistakenly overlook or dismiss asurf shop as this niche retail
business or simply a lifestylebrand, and I think what they're
missing is how much innovationthere is in that space and has
had to be throughout itsexistence.
(08:29):
To your point.
Going back to the 50s and 60s,these were some of the first
lifestyle products that werecreated around a brand, and now
you're taking that into thefuture.
Dave Allee (08:39):
Yeah, and, like you said, the surfing in and of
itself is aspirational becauseit's rare.
Not only do you have to be onthe coast, you have to be in,
like these little places on thecoast where the waves hit the
beach at the right angle and theright tide and the right
direction and, you know, makesurfable waves.
So the comparison would be likesnowboarding and if you were
(09:03):
just like only doing backcountry, if there was no groomed trails
with ski lifts, it's like youknow, it's like it, it is a
fleeting thing and so, anyway,we can get into more of that
later.
But challenges in the surfspace, but it is a small total,
addressable market, if you'retalking just core surf, so
creating a lifestyle aroundthese hard goods.
Brian Sheehan (09:23):
how much of that was by necessity and by design?
You know, maybe you opened inthe 50s and 60s you're having
some success shaping boards,maybe customs, a big part of
your product lineup but did theother product categories emerge
because they had to, or do youthink a lot of those brands the
(09:45):
Hobies of the World kind ofreally also started out with
that same vision in mind?
Dave Allee (09:49):
Yeah, I think finding that right product mix
of surfboards, soft goods,extensions from that, is part of
the art and it's like an evermoving target.
And I think during seasons forus we've leaned more heavily
into apparel and cut and sew andboard shorts and jackets and we
(10:11):
got more heavily into that.
And there's other seasons whenwe're like, no, we want to kind
of lean more heavily into theboards themselves.
It's an interesting thing.
Like you know, hobie got intosailboats and sunglasses and
retail stores and clothing.
They kind of took it all sortsof different directions and
that's actually kind of been acommon thing with surf.
(10:32):
It's surf and blank.
You look at some of the brandsthat are doing well now, like
Salty Crew is surf and deep seafishing, or Seeger is surf and
kind of this cowboy aesthetic orlike as you look it's.
People are kind of pairingthese different activities and
lifestyles together with surf inorder to help grow and
(10:55):
supplement.
And even those brands when theywere at the peak of their
powers the quicksilvers, thebillabongs, the volcans it
started with surf but then itvery quickly became surf and
snowboarding and skateboardingand and they were trying to get
all board sports kind of underone roof so that they could just
reach more folks.
Brian Sheehan (11:11):
I want to come back to that last example in a
second.
I'm curious what season are youin now and why?
Dave Allee (11:17):
So we I'd say from 2012 to 2015,.
It's kind of when we werereally leaning into the apparel
and soft good stuff and our SKUcount got very large.
The brands that I've alwaysliked are very like evergreen,
timeless.
You can count on them to makethe same kind of products year
after year.
(11:37):
There's not a lot of likeseasonal changeover, and the
part of that world that I likethe least personally is spring
collection, summer collection,fall collection, holiday.
You're just constantlyreinventing to fill a line sheet
.
That part to me is just liketoo fast.
You're designing to fill a linesheet rather than designing to
fill a customer need.
(11:58):
So I guess I'm kind of an oldsoul in this way, where I'm like
I want to be very like, I wantto be known for particular
products and I want to likecontinue to tweak and refine
those products.
But I want to take a long viewwith the way we develop our
stuff.
Being hard goods centric.
We spent three years behind thescenes developing a basically
(12:19):
what ends up being kind of afoam board, like a soft top
version of our custom surfboardmodels.
So it was three years ofdevelopment.
It was kind of different thanwhat how other people have
approached making a soft board.
So what that board did for uswas it allowed us to have a
(12:40):
board that was about half theprice of our custom boards.
It only comes in four sizes,it's durable, it's recyclable,
it's made in the USA.
It's like where there can be alot of maybe menu panic when you
go to order a surfboard.
People come in like I don'twant to order the wrong thing.
This is a big investment.
Making something that was alittle more entry level was like
(13:02):
hey, if you're looking to learnhow to surf, this is the board
for you.
If you've been learning how tosurf and you want to start
exploring more parts of the waveand have a little bit more
control and maneuverability,this is the one for you.
If you want to have one, you canjust bring the beach with you
and just lay it down in the sandand then all of a sudden when
you realize like, oh, now iswhen I want to paddle out, you
know, take this little five footfour one, really making an
(13:24):
entry level version, because weaim to be a premium brand and we
don't make any apologies forthat, but the R series line
allowed us to kind of have amore entry level product to
reach a broader audience, andthat is what I would say took us
substantially up in our abilityto just grow and have a viable,
(13:46):
flourishing, hard goods-centricbusiness, which traditional
wisdom in my industry would bethat you can't do that.
Everyone would tell you youcannot build a business based on
hard goods.
The margins aren't good enough,it can't be done.
So we've been paddling againstthe current in that way of
stubbornly either ignorantly orstubbornly deciding like no,
(14:09):
this is where we want to kind ofhang our hat.
Brian Sheehan (14:12):
So part of my background is in the world of
luxury brands and retail andmight not jump out at you, but I
think there's some similaritiesthere.
And you talked about being apremium brand, and yet you felt
the need to create anentry-level product, and when
you're a small format quoteunquote retailer, you've got a
(14:33):
limited product line.
It's not the world's biggestsurf shop, but you do a really
wonderful job merchandising it.
I guess I'm curious how youthink about that.
You know need to stay, you know, at a premium kind of brand
level.
That's part of your identity,but then also the desire to move
in that direction, and maybe acorollary would be how some
(14:57):
luxury brands might carrycertain soft goods that you know
allow you to gain entry to thatbrand's world.
In your case, though, it's oneof your key product categories.
Dave Allee (15:11):
Yeah, and the luxury one is an interesting
comparison because we are veryspecialty retail.
For us to be going back to theretail side of things, for us to
be in a mall with high, high,high foot traffic, it would
change the types of productsthat we would need to make.
It would change kind of thefocus of the brand to service a
(15:33):
broader customer base that'scoming in with less of a idea of
who we are.
So I would say we've justembraced the fact that we're
very destination driven.
We do get foot traffic but forthe most part people have seen
us online.
They're familiar with ourboards, they know we have a
(15:54):
store and they are seeking usout.
They are coming to Californiafor a surf trip and they're like
I've been following you guysonline for years, I'm just so
excited to finally see it inperson and so they might take
home a t-shirt or a hat or acoffee mug as part of their trip
to California.
Or they're coming in like, hey,I'm here, I'm ready to order my
(16:16):
custom surfboard.
I've been saving up for this.
This is a big deal for me.
Let's sit down and have a25-minute conversation to get
them to write up their perfectcustom surfboard and that that
custom surfboard exchange is ahuge part of what occurs in our
retail space.
And anyway, going back to theluxury thing, it's like how do
(16:37):
you be both like premium and insome ways there's a lot of
parallels with like a luxuryshopping experience where it's
not like overly merchandised butalso be approachable, because
surf shops have this manydecades long reputation for
being like?
I don't want to ask the wrongquestion, I don't want to be
dumb.
You know, there's a couple ofguys behind the sales counter
(16:58):
who were just goofing off and itseems like maybe I'm
inconveniencing them by beinghere Like we hear that a lot, or
especially in the early days weheard that a lot like whoa.
You know, I'm so used to goinginto a surf shop and feeling
like I'm intruding and there'sjust floor to ceiling product,
wall to wall product.
But when you come into Allmanit's meant to feel a little bit
more homey and inviting andwe're here to have a discussion
(17:22):
and so there's a personalizationthat happens there.
Our customer relationships aremuch longer.
We have customers who've beencoming and ordering surfboards
for most of our 15-year history,or all of our 15-year history.
I still have customers that Imet at our grand opening party
in March of 2009.
And so we're kind of growingwith them.
(17:46):
Surfboards range from 4'10 to 11feet and everything in the
middle, so during differentseasons for different conditions
, people have multiple boardsand like, when it's small,
they're going to write a bigboard, when it's bigger, they're
going to write a smaller board.
And so we're kind of growingwith them and equipping them,
(18:07):
like whether it's equipping themphysically with the gear or
equipping them with the kind ofknowledge and surf tips and
surfboard design theory wherewe're really like aiming to help
people.
If they start with that eightfoot softboard, we're going to
guide them through theirmulti-year journey of becoming a
well-rounded surfer with a, youknow, diverse quiver of boards.
(18:30):
And one of the fun things forus is like the boards that we
build are going to go see faroff beaches and places that we
will never visit with our owntwo feet and eyes.
But it's a fun part of knowinglike cool we are now part of
your journey because we'reequipping you to be able to go
and do this thing that you'vebeen dreaming of for years and
years.
Brian Sheehan (18:50):
Yeah, I was thinking about how you describe
it and it seems like yourproduct mix is just very curated
and I guess I'm hoping youcould talk a little bit about
the balance between wanting tomaximize the footprint of your
real estate you know, havingenough products to drive a
dollar per square foot in termsof sales number but also wanting
(19:12):
it, like you said, to feelapproachable, to have an
interesting mix of products andnot be overwhelmed by it when
you come into the shop.
Because you said, to feelapproachable, to have an
interesting mix of products andnot be overwhelmed by it when
you come into the shop, becauseyou guys have a really great
balance of that, yeah, and it'sfunny like I tease myself when
I'm talking about almond.
Dave Allee (19:27):
It's like we don't really measure things in dollars
per square foot like atraditional retailer should.
Part of that is because thevariance is so high when you
have high ticket items, like acustom longboard for a must
could be $2,000.
So then when you're you've got$35 t-shirts, you've got $12
coffee mugs, you've got $25 hats, then you've got $600 soft tops
(19:50):
and $2,000 custom boards, solike the variance can be pretty
high.
So I think we start looking atmaybe, so the variance can be
(20:18):
pretty high.
So I think we start looking atmaybe broader time horizons,
year-over-year sales, monthlythere is a season rhythms to
help facilitate that.
Like one of the things we do islike we are building stock
boards to fill the racks of thestore every week.
So every Friday we send out anemail saying it's new board
Friday.
Look at the new stock boardsthat came in this week and
you're just kind of I don't wantto say training your customer,
but you're just kind of likebuilding that rhythm in with
them where they know everyFriday they're going to get an
(20:38):
email showing off all the newboards that came in that week.
And so when things are goinggood, those boards are selling
that weekend and then you getnew ones again the next week and
it helps to keep things feelingfresh and new.
And fortunately, surfboards arekind of in the realm of cars
and guitars, where people justlike to look at them, so you
don't feel as though you'respamming your customers by
(21:00):
sending them an email everycouple of days with new things
that we're up to or new boardsthat we're working on, because
it's ever evolving and growing.
But in terms of the storemerchandising itself, obviously
surfboards is like 70% of ourbusiness, so it's visually going
to be the predominant thing inour store.
And then all of the classic softgoods things hats, teas, coffee
(21:24):
, mugs some of those categoriesare like the next most important
board shorts or the next mostimportant things for us.
So just making sure that we'remerchandising it well in a way
that's like pulling in the partsof the surfing experience that
maybe you don't see in there.
Like historically, we've almostalways had a projector playing
(21:44):
our like vimeo reel of our surfvideos happening in there.
There will be some shapingfootage.
My friend scott makes theseawesome flags that are kind of
mementos for your favorite surfspots and that's a really good
product category for us as well.
So it's like there's not a lotof mementos for your favorite
surf spots, and that's a reallygood product category for us as
well.
So it's like there's not a lotof mementos to take home from
your favorite surf break.
In fact, I think you have oneon the wall behind you San
(22:06):
Onofre right there.
Yeah, san Onofre.
So yeah, just pulling in thebest parts of the surfing
experience so that when you walkin you feel as though you're
somewhere where you're welcome.
But there is like a certainlike level of consideration
that's been put into the space.
It doesn't hopefully doesn'tlook haphazard and it's like we
(22:27):
take we don't take surfing tooseriously, but we, I think we
take it just seriously enough.
We love the activity, we lovethe like craftsmanship of it and
we want to walk that fine lineof craftsmanship timeless
aesthetics and yet stillapproachable so many lessons
there for retailers and brandstoday, I guess it makes me
(22:51):
curious what's the hardest partabout running when surfboards
are running your shop?
I would say staffing likestaffing.
There's a lot to know to workhere, because people are going
to come in and they want to talkboard design theory and if
they're making this bigpurchasing decision, they want
to feel comfortable andconfident.
So for us, it's asking theright questions.
(23:11):
We have to know our productreally well.
So we've, you know, needing tosurf the boards that we make and
be able to speak to that verypersonally.
So finding, like the rightpeople who can provide that
experience that we want peopleto have has been a challenge.
I mean, yeah, I'd say thatthat's one.
(23:31):
And just continuing to innovate, continuing to come out with
new products Like again thattimelessness, versus continuing
to like push the envelope andhave new things and new reasons,
and so collaborations becomes apart of that.
Surfboard design innovationbecomes a part of that.
Just trying to continue tounderstand and meet the needs of
not only our customers but ourvery best customers.
Brian Sheehan (23:56):
So that leads me to this topic, or point which
you touched on earlier.
Surfshops are so iconic, andone thing that I really love
about being in them is how manyhistorical reference points
there are in the shop.
There's old boards, there'sphotos maybe your favorite break
and many brands you mentionedFord have survived and, to my
(24:19):
view, look like they're thrivingtoday, but so many others have
closed, and you mentioned acouple of those the roll up of
these large, iconic brands, andso I guess I'm curious to hear
your thoughts about how do youremain relevant, and part of the
answer it sounded like you weregoing in the direction of.
(24:41):
You know, we have tried to stayfocused on our core mission,
which you had a vision of fromthe start.
Dave Allee (24:48):
Yeah, and as we look ahead as a brand and as a surf
shop, I think information hasmaybe been like really
commoditized and it's like wedon't want to really compete in
the.
We're going to outspend otherbrands on Instagram ads, for
example.
We're not going to keep jumpingon every new digital trend
(25:11):
because that space is moving sofast.
So we've actually kind of likeleaned more into our monthly
surf meetups and giving away asmuch free content as possible.
It might seem counterintuitive,but we have downloadable
surfboard templates on ourwebsite for free, where, if you
want to try building your ownsurfboard, here's at least a
(25:32):
like headstart Download thistemplate, take it to the little
FedEx office in your hometown,print it out and build your own,
or come surf with us once amonth.
It's not really a board demo,but it's kind of a board demo.
We'll drag a bunch of boardsdown, you bring your own, we'll
bring a hot thing of coffee andwe'll just do a monthly surf
meetup.
So leaning into the places whereI feel like the other brands
(25:56):
aren't is always something thatwe're looking at.
Obviously, recurring revenuelike subscription businesses,
rental programs, membershipthings it's always something
we're flirting with.
I think we're just maybegeographically we're five
minutes, six minutes from thebeach.
But I think if we were at thethe beach physically, we would
(26:17):
have a locker room and a rack ofdemo boards and hot showers and
a coffee shop and it would belike going to the ski mountain.
Come here and we'll equip youfor going and surfing right out
front.
I used to dream of, likethere's a spot in the blackies
parking lot which is a surf spothere in town, like what if we?
were to take over the blackies,like this spot in the blackies
parking lot and which is a surfspot here in town.
(26:37):
What if we were to take overthis spot in the Blackies
parking lot and you're, justlike, this is our spot, park out
front, we have everything youneed.
Go, have fun, come back.
But that's a very differentbusiness model and that would be
very brick and mortar being nowthe anchor of our business,
where I think building products,product innovation is kind of
(26:58):
where we've chosen to put ourfocus.
But yeah, like again thecommunity building side of
things, giving away free contentWe've got all these free eBooks
on our website of Almond'sGuide to your First Year of
Surfing.
Here's everything we can thinkto tell the novice surfer.
Almond's Guide to Nose Ridersand Longboards here's everything
we can think to share aboutdesign of nose riders and long
boards.
Here's everything we can thinkto share about design of nose
riders and long boards and howto get the most out of it.
(27:20):
Like really investing in ourcommunity in a way that builds
their trust and helps equip themfor their journey.
Brian Sheehan (27:28):
There's no real good substitute for high quality
community engagement.
Dave Allee (27:33):
Yeah, I think so, and I think it's right now, in
2024, 2024, that is more of aneed than more noise interesting
.
Brian Sheehan (27:43):
I wanted to talk a little bit, spend a little bit
of time talking about thephysical store itself and I
really love the environment,from the colors to how it's laid
out.
You maximize a fairly smallfootprint.
I wonder if you'd talk a littlebit about your goals for
(28:03):
creating the store, how that'schanged over time, the physical
design of it, those kinds ofthings.
Dave Allee (28:11):
So I should say we've moved twice in our 15-year
history.
So we were in a very small450-square-foot spot on Old
Newport Boulevard.
Then we moved to a bigger900-square-foot spot on Pacific
Coast Highway, which was highvisibility, poor parking, people
were driving by your store atlike 50.
So it's like, oh, there wentall of them.
(28:32):
So then in 2015, we moved hereto Costa Mesa standalone
building with its own front lawn, which is very rare, and a
private parking lot behind, andwe shared this center with a
barbershop and a landscapearchitect.
And then there's adrive-through convenience store
on the other side of the nextdriveway down, but it's the same
(28:52):
complex.
So this space, being astandalone building with a big
front lawn, felt very nostalgicto me, of like kind of the
iconic surf shops that I alwaysadmire in old black and white
photos.
So when you walk in big redwoodslab table rack of custom boards
, product both from it's a lotof our products.
(29:16):
It's not a lot of secondhandbrands.
We're not like bringing in aton of products by the people.
We will bring in select piecesfrom some brands that we have
personal relationships with thatare just categories that we
aren't going to developourselves, that are kind of
necessities, sunscreen, evensome of the more technical
apparel stuff board bags butalthough, like most of it's
(29:38):
almond branded steps when you'recoming in here, it's it's very
vertically integrated.
It's you're at the almond shop.
Yeah, so our space.
Now we actually I don't know ifyou when I said you were here
was, but we cut down thefootprint of the store by adding
a retaining wall in thereearlier this year in like
january, february, so that nowyou can kind of stand in the
(29:59):
entranceway and it's like thewhole brand is laid out in front
of you.
You can we pretty much fit thesame amount of product in about
60 percent amount of space.
So the merchandising is alittle more purposeful.
But it's really like you'restepping into the brand
experience.
It's a three-dimensional fivecents like okay, cool, I can
understand.
Like the brand experience it'sa three-dimensional five cents,
like okay, cool, I canunderstand.
Like the brand that I've nowstepped into more so than it is
(30:22):
like a ton of SKUs that aretrying to just service foot
traffic customer.
Brian Sheehan (30:29):
Anyone that's doing retail exceptionally well
today, I think, has accomplishedthat Totally.
There's no substitute for beingimmersed in the vision of the
brand.
How big of a store is it?
How many square feet?
Dave Allee (30:44):
now that we've cut it down, I would say it's like
we're back down to, like itbeing six or seven hundred
square feet, it's not very bigand you said you don't really
track sales per square foot.
Brian Sheehan (30:55):
Can you talk at all about kind of sales at a
high level perspective, whatkind of revenue a store does?
I don't know if you know anymetrics for the industry, if
that's something that you guystrack closely.
Dave Allee (31:08):
I don't have really insights to like industry
standards, but I can tell youfrom our perspective we kind of
fall in that like two to $3million a year range.
A good portion of that isonline, so we're probably 70%
online, 30% in store and thatjust the nature of the products
that we build being big, largesurfboards like it's something
(31:29):
that A of all customers want tocome and see in person and B
while we do ship tons of boards,it's like being able to come to
the shop pick up your board.
It's part of the kind ofromantic experience I think of
custom surfboards.
So we want to make thatexperience memorable in a good
way for people.
If you order a custom board,you might wait six to eight
(31:51):
weeks longer, depending on whoyou order it from.
So going to pick that thing upit's a big deal, and so we don't
want to have that transactionhappening in a 7-Eleven parking
lot.
Brian Sheehan (32:03):
Back to the luxury example.
A lot of those fashion housestreat and view a physical store
as a marketing expense.
I'm curious what percentage ofsales?
The hard goods are there, butdo you view it similarly?
Dave Allee (32:18):
In certain seasons I have, and I think that thinking
just kind of evolves and shifts.
The landscape of our industryis just like many industries has
just changed a lot over thelast four or five years.
So, coming out of thepost-COVID recreational boom, we
were fully just online.
(32:38):
We were just shipping boardsevery single day as fast as we
could get them out the door.
But now the dust has settled.
We're kind of in thispost-spike hangover period,
getting back to our roots,reinvesting in the community,
reinvesting in events at thestore.
We just had a pop-up event onSaturday morning this past
weekend where this gal broughtthese big ice baths and a sauna
(33:01):
on a trailer and a coffee pop-up.
She sold tickets and it wasjust like this huge event on the
front lawn of the store and itbrought I think she sold 150
tickets and that was all we hadto do was say here's a hose to
fill up your ice bath tank andwe probably did a thousand bucks
in just small merchandise salesfrom the people that this
brought in.
And I came by with my daughterand looked around the event.
(33:23):
I was like I don't recognize asoul at this event, which is
great.
It brought 150 people who Idon't think have ever been in my
store before and that was avery productive thing.
You do things like that and thesurf meetups and little coffee
pop-ups.
And we did a collaboration lastyear with a brand out of Austin
Texas called Howler Brotherswhere we made some co-branded
(33:44):
product together and you knowthey threw a great party.
They had a DJ and a food, ataco truck and bartender and
they got all these drinks.
You know contributed to thething and you know contributed
the thing and you knowreinvesting in some of those
things has been part of this,like post-ecom boom and us
finding our way.
I talked to a ton of otherbrands, either in our space or
(34:06):
similar kind of expressions butand everyone's kind of trying to
figure out like, where do we gonext?
And the in-person stuff hasbeen good and refreshing and, I
think, needed for both thecustomer and us as a brand.
Brian Sheehan (34:20):
This next seems to be working really well for
you guys.
I'm curious what you think iscoming.
What's the next next?
Dave Allee (34:27):
The next next for us , I think, or I think the next
next just in general, isdoubling down on the community
thing.
I don't want to tip my hand toomuch here, but I think there's
a lot of social media fatiguewhere every small brand or
business whether you're arestaurant or an apparel brand
(34:50):
or whoever you've had to becomea media company over the last
number of years and so you'reshouting a lot of stuff out into
the void, hoping that thealmighty algorithm is going to
like what you're putting out andyou're chasing this kind of
moving target.
And I think there's a lot offatigue around that, both from
(35:12):
the consumer side and I thinkwe're seeing a lot of the
downsides of that running theworld and from the brand side
with every new innovation.
There's like this period whereit was very efficient to get new
customers by pouring a bunch ofthe meta ads.
You could get a lot of newcustomers very inexpensively,
and now we've seen return on adspend drop and that seems like
(35:36):
that world's kind of all overthe place and organic reach has
really dropped.
So I think there's a lot offatigue there.
So we're now trying to figureout like okay, what's the next
thing, instead of us shouting atour customers, hoping to reach
them.
How do we get our customers toengage with us, with each other?
How do we create a little morelike, pocket of like hey, this
(36:00):
space is meant for these kind ofconversations Go and allow
there to be a little more crosspollination, because whether
it's surfboard design or travel,the reach of our customer base
now is global and certainlyspread all over both coasts of
the United States or theNortheast.
How do we get them to connectwith other almond customers who
live there, know the best spotfor a breakfast burrito, know
(36:33):
the best time of year to go surfthere?
How do we start to create agenuine exchange of just
community and not have to alwaysplay gatekeeper or just us
shouting from a megaphone?
So that's kind of where we'reheaded, but I think there's a
lot of untapped potential thereand there's a couple of brands
in other industries who aredoing it and it's something that
(36:57):
fascinates us a lot.
Brian Sheehan (36:59):
Who are some of the brands you're thinking of
that are doing that now?
Dave Allee (37:02):
Are you familiar with Random Golf Club in Austin,
Texas?
It's like a smaller golf brand.
I don't know.
I say smaller, I have no idea.
It's a small-ish golf brandfrom austin.
It's very like heavilyfounder-led.
It's got eric anders lang islike the founder and face of the
brand, but they've done a goodjob of cultivating.
I think their motto is like aglobal community of local
(37:25):
golfers and like they've done agood job of cultivating
community around golf in a againkind of like what we talk, the
way we talk about surfing, likethey don't take it too seriously
but they take it maybe justseriously enough and so that's
probably the best example that Ican think of of like a brand
that's doing that well and Ithink that that helps drive a
(37:45):
lot of the things that they do.
And like they're very active onyoutube and they do a lot of
meetups and like I saw some oneridiculous thing where they had
like instead of a foursome itwas like a 50 some and they had
like 50 people play a round ofgolf together.
I don't I'm not a golfer, Idon't actually know how that
worked, but there's a level oflike creativity required to do
(38:05):
that kind of stuff that I Iadmire, even as a non golfer.
Brian Sheehan (38:09):
I love it.
I am a golfer.
I'm definitely going to checkthem out.
I wanted to try a new segmentwith you, Dave.
If you're comfortable with thisjust going to throw some rapid
fire questions at you, Okay,let's do it All right.
Favorite Southern Californiasurf spot.
Dave Allee (38:24):
San Onofre.
It's not where I go the most,but if I had to pick a favorite,
san Onofre.
Brian Sheehan (38:29):
What's your favorite surf destination?
Maybe outside of SouthernCalifornia?
Dave Allee (38:33):
Anywhere that has a long left point break.
So I'd say the famous oneswould be like New Zealand or
Peru or a bunch of places Ihaven't been yet, but a long
left point would be my dreamsurf destination.
Brian Sheehan (38:47):
What's your current favorite product in the
Omen catalog?
Dave Allee (38:51):
I'm always like most excited about the new stuff
we're working on.
So we've got some new surfboardmodels that we're kind of
developing that are in thetesting phase right now.
So I'm always like lookingahead to like what's coming next
on the pipeline.
But I'd say the R-Series, thosefoamies I was talking about
earlier that's probably theproduct that I'm most proud of,
but yeah, it's still it's boards.
Brian Sheehan (39:12):
A couple of questions about favorite other
brands, one of those being, ifyou weren't shopping at Almond,
what's your favorite other surfshop you visit?
Dave Allee (39:21):
So favorite surf shop.
It's amazing how few surf shopsI go in.
There's a shop on the Oregoncoast called Moment Surf Company
and it's in Pacific few surfshops I go in.
There's a shop on the oregoncoast called moment surf company
and it's in pacific city,oregon.
It's a small shop but they'vedone a really good job of like
packing a lot of product inthere and it's kind of what I
was referring to earlier.
It's like it's like right infront of the surf break and
(39:43):
because it's on the oregon coast, it's cold and rugged and you
have to like really want to be asurfer there.
So I think there's an inherentlike oh, you too, yeah, like
just a common understandingbetween like surfers when you're
in colder water.
So I'd say moment surf companyprobably would be my favorite
surf shop.
I've been to it.
(40:03):
It feels very like a differentreality from Southern California
Crowded, very developed, andthere's a Pelican Brewing.
It's like right next door.
So that doesn't hurt either.
So it's a cool setup.
Brian Sheehan (40:18):
How about favorite other brand?
You mentioned Random Golf Club.
Dave Allee (40:23):
Favorite other brand .
I like Buck Mason, just likeelevated basics.
I think they do a beautiful jobwith their stores.
I like Seavey's shoes.
They've like again taken thisvery kind of nostalgic, timeless
California approach.
Their stores have a lot of veryeclectic things that they've
collected over the years andthen Slightly Choppy.
(40:45):
My buddy Scott, who does thesurf flags Everything he does is
like really cool and originaland authentic feeling.
I really like what he's doingwith Slightly Choppy.
Brian Sheehan (40:55):
Last question in this little rapid fire segment
inland surf and wave parks.
Are you a fan, Are yousupportive?
Dave Allee (41:02):
This is a controversial take, I guess, but
I'm very much in favor of.
I've been very fascinated bythe technology of surf parks and
wave pools over the lastseveral years.
I don't think the expansion hashappened nearly as quickly as
most would have expected andit's happening way faster in
(41:24):
Europe than it is here, but Ithink it's good.
I don't think it replacessurfing, but there's so many
days when I would just kill forany little bump or clean wave to
ride and it's just it's windyor it's flat, or it's the middle
of summer and it's crowded.
And you know, in Newport theyjust blackball it, which means
no hardboards.
So I think having a controlledwave pool that you can go surf
(41:50):
whenever you want only does goodthings for surfing, for us as
surfers, and I'm excited to seethere's a bunch of projects like
in various stages ofdevelopment in the us right now.
Brian Sheehan (42:02):
So I'm excited to see more of those like open up
and start pumping waves throughdo you see that part of the
industry changing anything forAlmond Vision, creating new
products, or do you feel likeAlmond could service that
customer equally well as it istoday?
Dave Allee (42:21):
I think.
So it kind of comes down tolike what style of waves these
parks are going after.
We didn't really touch on thisbut like the boards that we
build are kind of like we say,exceptional surfboards for
everyday waves, so like we'repretty realistic about the fact
that it's usually two feet andor you know, waist high and
decent on any given day inSouthern California.
(42:43):
So we're really building boardsfor having a really good time
in marginal conditions.
We're not building highperformance surfboards for high
performance surfing in criticalwaves.
There's a whole industry aroundthat.
That's not our reality day today, so that's not the products
that we build.
But as people are building wavepools, they're trying to build
the best wave possible.
(43:03):
So I think we would have tocontinue to push things a little
bit more progressive, to reallylike service that customer or
you know you're looking at likethe R-series line of like, hey,
this is a great board forbuilding confidence if you only
surf a couple times a year or ifyou're really just getting your
feet wet, helping that kind oflike intermediate surfer to
(43:24):
progress.
It only creates moreopportunity for us, I should say
.
Brian Sheehan (43:28):
Okay, fair enough .
And then, thinking about thefuture, are you planning to open
additional locations?
What are your growth goals?
Dave Allee (43:37):
We get asked all the time about our interest in
opening a second location.
Every time there's a newdevelopment that's getting close
to completion we usually get acall and a pitch deck and you
know to.
They're looking for likeinteresting, visually
stimulating retail to pull in.
We have not really entertainedany of those things up to this
(43:58):
point.
I think for us to do a secondlocation it would have to be
adjacent to waves and I wouldwant there to be some element of
a surf club membership, likeI've thought through like how I
would do that model quite a bitover the last several years, so
it would have to have like asurf club element to it for us
(44:20):
to really sink our teeth into asecond location.
If it was just strictly retail,I don't know that we're built
for it right now as anindependently owned surf brand
what are your growth goals overthe next five years?
great question depends on howmuch we want to.
You know, if we're talkingabout that like 70 30 hard goods
(44:41):
to soft goods split, like if wewant to start growing that soft
goods to catch up to the levelthat the hard goods is at and be
more at like a 50-50 productmix, I think that's where the
growth could come from.
But we have a couple ofcollaborations coming in the
next several months that aregoing to be really good for us
and it'll be interesting to seewhat new doors that those open.
(45:03):
But they're very.
It's a mix of both hard goodsand soft goods, but we're going
to let some of the unexpectedopportunities that have come our
way kind of drive our growthover at least the next 18 months
and then we'll kind of seewhere the dust settles and what
opportunities exist after that.
Every time I make a plan, somenew thing that's better comes
(45:26):
along.
So we have to be nimble andadaptable.
Brian Sheehan (45:29):
That's interesting.
You know, what really piqued mycuriosity is how you know your
expansion ideas and creating aclub being at the beach.
I think a lot about that kindof membership club model, being
able to store beach Like here'sa great example.
You know I'll be out thereagain at a certain point and I
could really use a short-termrental.
(45:50):
I'd love to come in, buy aboard from you, have a place I
could keep it.
I'm out there three or fourtimes a year.
You know, usually I'm likerenting or I'm demoing a board
and then have a place to stay.
That's a part of that.
You know you're starting to seethis kind of happen in that
world where hospitality and agreat coffee shop and I can get
(46:10):
a taco and I in fact, every timeI go to your place I'm thinking
like man, if there was a littleplace to grab a coffee in here,
I would totally do that too,you know.
Dave Allee (46:19):
Yeah, one of the draws for us to move here.
But sidecar donuts is directlyacross the street and I've known
the owner of that for a longtime, so I felt like opening
coffee in our space.
In addition, to like theplumbing requirements that that
would have taken was like flyingdirectly against my
relationship with Sumter.
So it is right there, but it'slike I do think some of the best
(46:42):
surf shops that people point tonowadays are have combined
coffee with surfing, and youknow, whether it saturdays in
new york city, or there's a shophere in town called daydream
that like people just like tohang out at, because it is
that's tricky too, because it'smostly a coffee shop yeah, I've
been in there.
Brian Sheehan (47:02):
they do they.
They get a big crowd, yeah,yeah, what's interesting is I
have not bought a lot of otherproducts from them, whereas in
your shop, you know, I am moreimmersed in the brand and feel
like your communications keep meengaged, and so usually I pick
up a few things when I'm there,whereas Daydream.
I am really just in there toget something to eat and kind of
(47:22):
hang out, and you know the vibe.
Dave Allee (47:25):
I think that's common.
I think most people think of itas a coffee shop with like this
surf appendage yeah, absolutelyWell, dave, it was great
speaking with you today.
Brian Sheehan (47:37):
Thank you for joining me on Retail Intel.
It's me Be sure to check themout in person in Costa Mesa and
on Instagram at almondsurfboards.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
work, this podcast is your allaccess pass to the world of
(47:58):
commercial real estate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail Intelpodcast, send a message to
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
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