August 22, 2024 • 17 mins
We're celebrating the 50th Retail Intel Episode! Ready for some shaved snow magic? Join Brian Sheehan as he sits with the Co-Founders of Vampire Penguin, Paolo & Leo San Luis! Discover the delicious story behind one of today's most unique and trending dessert brands. Listen now to get inspired by their incredible journey and see how they're redefining the dessert game.
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Episode Transcript
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Brian Sheehan (00:05):
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I am thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail,
the aisles of shopping centersand the world of commercial
property investment.
With me today are Paolo AngeloSan Luis and Leo Alejandro San
(00:28):
Luis, co-founders of VampirePenguin.
Vampire Penguin conjures shavedsnow magic to bring family and
friends together and is one ofthe most interesting and unique
dessert brands expanding today.
If you haven't heard of ShavedSnow Magic, you're in for a real
treat and I'm excited to learnmore.
Paolo, leo, welcome.
Leo San Luis (00:50):
Hello, thanks for having us.
Paolo San Luis (00:52):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Brian Sheehan (00:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for coming on.
So I'd love to start with yourbackground.
What were you guys doing beforeyou got into the dessert
business?
Leo San Luis (01:01):
Well for me, hello , my name is Leo and before this
business I was actually workingas a dental manager, handling
all the teeth.
And it's kind of ironic becausenow I'm in the dessert business
and before I would be handlingthe cavities and submitting the
medical claims and all that.
So that's what I did before.
Paolo San Luis (01:21):
And hi, my name is Paulo and I graduated as a
biology major, was heading tofollow in our parents' footsteps
of becoming a dentist.
But after I graduated it justwasn't making me fulfilled and I
just thought maybe a businesswith my brother will be a better
way to go.
And so we started VampirePenguin.
Brian Sheehan (01:41):
Yeah, so let's talk about that One.
It's such a unique, interestingname, and then you guys have a
really innovative spin, I think,on this whole category.
But so how did the launch ofVampire Penguin come about?
Paolo San Luis (01:56):
Yeah.
So about a few months after Igraduated I spoke with my
brother and we were like, hey,let's go start a business.
And Leo asked me well, whatkind of business do you want to
start?
Well, we both grew up in thePhilippines and we always loved
shaved ice.
But when we moved here back in2000, we were so amazed by how
much interpretation of shavedice is out here, including
(02:18):
Hawaiian, taiwanese and, ofcourse, the American snow cone.
So we just kind of wanted tocombine the elements that we
like from the Hawaiian being sofluffy and light and the
Taiwanese being creamy, and, ofcourse, the American snow cone
with its flavor profile and theappeal to the mass market.
We just kind of wanted tocombine the elements that we
(02:38):
liked and created the recipethat we have now and, of course,
penguin, so naming the company.
Of course Penguin is associatedwith snow and ice, but Vampire,
because the product that wecame up with is something out of
this world, like a vampire.
Penguin shouldn't exist, justlike our product shouldn't exist
.
Brian Sheehan (02:56):
I love it.
That's great.
So you guys are sitting aroundthinking about different kinds
of businesses that you mightlike to start, different kinds
of businesses that you mightlike to start.
How did you land on a dessertbusiness?
Leo San Luis (03:12):
What is it that you love about desserts or a
retail business?
Well, one thing I did realizeis that, in a dessert business,
most people that come in arehappy to eat it and they leave
happy.
It's a sweet and enjoyabledessert.
Happy, you know, it's a sweetand enjoyable dessert.
We also did notice that thereare limited options in terms of
desserts, in terms of dairy-free, sugar-free.
So we decided, hey, we canprobably come up with something
(03:34):
different for the people toselect from, and that's where
Shave Snow came from.
Brian Sheehan (03:39):
You know, it's such a competitive space that
you guys are operating in andthere's just generally so much
competition for space in ourshopping centers and retail
generally these days.
What are some things that makefor folks that aren't familiar?
What are some things that makeVampire Penguin unique, like
what's going to jump out at youimmediately after you walk into
(04:01):
one of your cafes after you walkinto one of your cafes.
Paolo San Luis (04:08):
So of course the name has a lot to do with
just the interest and just kindof piquing curiosity of what
this business is Like.
Shakespeare itself is not amainstream dessert.
There is a lot of kind ofeducation going on.
At the same time there's a lotof barriers that gets a
first-time customer to actuallytry the product.
Of course those are thechallenges.
But once a customer tries it,enjoys it, shares it with their
family, then they becomeconverted into becoming fans of
(04:33):
shaved snow.
Leo San Luis (04:34):
Yeah, usually a lot of people would correlate
our product with shaved ice andwe just say you just have to try
it.
It's light, fluffy and it's notlike the traditional snow cone
that you're gonna be having.
It's pretty fluffy and it's notlike the traditional snow cone
that you're going to be having.
It's pretty much a combinationof all the desserts that we love
.
Brian Sheehan (04:49):
Yeah, I guess I didn't realize there's so much
differentiation in this space.
I grew up in the Midwest andI'm familiar with dairy whip
snow cone, so shaved ice withdifferent flavorings.
It ends up being kind of like aslushy, you know, but your
creation is, I don't know.
(05:10):
It's just so much more robustand more offerings to it.
I guess I wanted to just maybetalk a little bit more about
that point of differentiation.
Paolo San Luis (05:19):
Like.
What we always say is that ourSh snow magic is the final
evolution of shaved ice.
Just because there's no slushyat the end, the flavor is
already mixed in the blockbefore we shave it, so it's all
consistent throughout.
The texture is like eating acloud.
At the same time, it gives youthe satisfaction of ice cream
(05:40):
and definitely that is thebiggest differentiation from
Hawaiian Taiwanese and as wellas the snow cone or shaved ice
itself, and also when it'spresented, it looks like it
doesn't look like shaved ice, itlooks like a cake.
It looks like you're eating adessert from a fine dining
restaurant.
It does, which, of course, isbest to share with your friends
and family, and that's why webring friends and families
(06:02):
together with Shaved Snow Magic.
Brian Sheehan (06:05):
Yeah, it's a pretty massive serving.
I felt like and it is sosurprising because you think the
texture does appear to be kindof like a cold cake.
But once you dig into it yourealize, wow, this is something
completely different.
I've never had anything like itbefore.
It's so surprising andrevealing.
I wanted to talk a little moreabout the specifics.
(06:26):
So the landlords that aren'tfamiliar with you around the
country, or maybe brokers bigpart of our audience.
What is the sweet spot?
Square footage wise, what sizebase are you looking for?
Leo San Luis (06:40):
The sweet spot for a vampire penguin will be 800
to 1200 square feet.
That size perfectly fits theoperations and equipments that
we recommend, along with thesupply space that they can hold
on and turn out the product,along with ample seating of
course, how many seats do youtypically have in a typical?
Brian Sheehan (07:00):
Usually like 30 to 35 seats.
Yeah, it's very efficient.
Paolo San Luis (07:04):
But usually for a dessert business like this
the turnover is pretty fast.
What's the typical cycle time?
Usually it takes a family of,let's say, four.
They would order the dessertcomes out within five minutes
stay there for another 10minutes, so around 15 to 20.
What's the average ticket price?
The average ticket price isaround $8 for a small and around
(07:26):
11 to 12 for a large.
Brian Sheehan (07:28):
Okay, and if you guys are comfortable sharing
with it, what's typical AUV forone of your stores?
Paolo San Luis (07:34):
So an average income for a typical Vamper
Penguin is around 25,000 grossmonthly and of course it
averages out throughout the year, where we're busier in the
summer, and of course it slowsdown in the wintertime.
Brian Sheehan (07:48):
Yeah, gotcha.
And how many locations arethere open currently?
Leo San Luis (07:52):
Currently we have 35 locations open all over the
United States Florida,california, south Carolina yeah.
Brian Sheehan (07:58):
And how many do you expect will be open by the
end of the year?
Paolo San Luis (08:02):
By the end of the year, probably another five,
and in 2025, we're expecting toopen another five so far,
that's great, nice, steadygrowth.
Brian Sheehan (08:13):
I think we talked about the business model.
It's not a franchise model,it's not a corporate model, it's
a licensing model.
Is that right?
And for anybody that's notfamiliar with it, how's that
different?
Paolo San Luis (08:24):
Yeah, so it's the reason why we went through
the licensing route as opposedto a franchise.
There are a few similarities,Of course.
You license out or franchiseout the trade name and the
business know-how to yourlicensee, but the biggest
difference is that we don'tcontrol the business owner.
Our mission statement is tolicense the brand name and the
(08:44):
business somehow to licenseesthat can grow the business on
their own.
So a lot of the work and theresources come from the licensee
.
We don't control the marketing.
We don't control the businessoperation, but we do guide them
from the ground up, fromdesigning the space to the build
out support as well as supplies.
Leo San Luis (09:04):
And this strategy really maximizes them to be
creative and also reduce theircost in the build-out and
running the business.
So that's really one of thebiggest benefits of the
licensing.
Brian Sheehan (09:15):
That's so key right now.
You know every cost sensitivityis, if it's not at a peak, it's
near an all-time high.
So I think anything that you'redoing to provide resources and
also minimize their startupcosts and operational costs has
got to be a real key benefit.
Leo San Luis (09:34):
Yeah.
Paolo San Luis (09:35):
And I think that's the result of our organic
and steady growth.
We're not growing so fast whereall of a sudden we realize that
the concept is not working theway we're doing.
It is very slow and steady andquite democratic.
Brian Sheehan (09:50):
Well, let's talk more about that.
Where are you growing?
Where are you looking to grow?
There are specific targetmarkets that people should be on
lookout for in terms of futurelocations.
Paolo San Luis (10:01):
Yeah, so right now we are growing in Florida,
south Carolina, georgia,mississippi, tennessee, new
Jersey, hopefully in New York.
Soon we have some in Texas,colorado, arizona, california
and Seattle Washington.
So what we typically look foris locations that target our
(10:21):
target market, which are youngfamilies, but to be specific,
it's women ages 25 to 45.
And usually that relates toyounger mothers.
Younger families, yeah thatmakes sense.
Brian Sheehan (10:34):
What are some other, I guess, key factors that
you're looking for, that you'relooking for your licensees to
consider when they're evaluatinga potential property?
What do you like to be near?
Paolo San Luis (10:44):
So, of course, near businesses that cater to
our target market, the families,Businesses that host kids, like
a Chuck E Cheese, for example,or a Dave Buster's it's like an
arcade business Restaurantsbecause it's very symbiotic with
their like.
Usually after they have dinnerthen they can go out and have
(11:06):
dessert.
Brian Sheehan (11:06):
And what's the process look like for your
licensees when they're selectinga site?
Are you guys actively involvedin that?
Paolo San Luis (11:14):
Yes, so we typically ask for pictures and
of course, hopefully somemarketing study by the landlord
or the broker where we can justkind of go off and see all right
, well, this is the size of thepopulation, this is the, the
median income, the businessesaround it and what is the
development within the next fiveyears.
And once they sign the lease,we usually help them design a
(11:34):
draft floor plan with equipmentplacement and they can turn that
into their architect draftsmanif they have to do permits and
stuff like that.
But our biggest tip usually isespecially for first-time
business owners.
Our licensing program attractsa lot of first-time business
owners.
We usually want them to kind ofmanage their risk and usually
the biggest way to do that is,of course, location, location,
(11:57):
location.
At the same time, finding alocation that used to be a
previous food facility, justbecause it does save you a lot
of money on construction, yeah,and we've seen licensees.
Brian Sheehan (12:09):
So second generation restaurants are key.
Yeah, second generation.
Paolo San Luis (12:13):
Uh, just because we've seen licensees
open their store, a fullyoperational from 25 000 to as
high as 100 000, and that reallyjust depends on what kind of
space they find.
Brian Sheehan (12:23):
Is there anything unique in terms of the
build-out that you might nototherwise expect from call it,
like you know, a typical icecream store restaurant that
specializes in frozen desserts?
Leo San Luis (12:36):
I mean for us, whatever the location offers in
terms of electricity and watersupply, it's usually not a
problem because it goes down tothe temperature and the
equipment that we provide and,along with the proprietary snow
powder that we sell them.
So there's usually no specialequipment or special features
required for this business.
Brian Sheehan (12:58):
Okay, and I assume you don't need a
drive-through window.
Paolo San Luis (13:02):
We're open to that definitely yeah, we have a
store in Fargo, North Dakota,that does have a drive-thru and
it does help them throughout thewintertime.
It's not necessary, but if thespace has it, great.
Leo San Luis (13:14):
And the product itself looks pretty good with
the to-go concept too.
Brian Sheehan (13:18):
Oh, I bet it does .
I was just thinking that yourability to flex into different
kinds of spaces as long as it'sgot the right infrastructure,
you could go inline.
You could take an end cap space, you can be inline with a
grocery if it was one of ourshopping centers.
You just got a lot offlexibility, as long as you're
seeing some of those other typesof users that you want to be
(13:39):
around.
Paolo San Luis (13:40):
Yes, and the concept itself can be applied to
not just retail but, of course,mobile concept, as well as
smaller footprints like kiosksand takeout windows only, or
like even anchoring next to agrocery store, for example, like
having a stall at a grocerystore.
The concept will work in anyspace.
Brian Sheehan (14:00):
Interesting.
Leo San Luis (14:01):
It's very easily condensable.
Brian Sheehan (14:03):
It's very condensable.
Leo San Luis (14:04):
Yes, we actually have a few trailers and food
trucks already functioning inArizona and South Carolina, so
there's already a proof ofconcept of that.
Brian Sheehan (14:14):
What's the best way to present sites to either
you or your licensees?
Just send those direct to you.
Paolo San Luis (14:22):
So typically we have licensees that close the
deal with us saying, hey, I wanta territory.
We signed the deal and theirnext step is usually looking for
a location and they wouldusually go on LoopNetcom or
CityFeedcom.
But of course it would be greatif we can connect them with a
singular broker that can providethem.
(14:44):
Hey, I'm looking at, forexample, Allegheny County in
Pennsylvania.
This is the licensee lookingfor a location, this is their
contact.
It would be great if they canjust get a list from a singular
broker.
Brian Sheehan (14:57):
Paolo and Leo, where do you guys want to see
this brand go, or grow, over thenext five years?
Paolo San Luis (15:03):
So, yeah, so we want to dive more into the lore
and the story of the VampirePenguins.
If you ever look us up onInstagram or on the website, he
does have a short story book, wehave kids books, we have
plushies, and our goal for thatis to basically create a brand
or elevate him through mediawhere he can be in kids movies,
(15:27):
he can be his own animation show, a clothing brand and
eventually create this wholeworld where it can be in the
theme park and, of course, theShades of Noir tying it all
together, all together.
And of course, he has friends.
He has walter the walrus, hehas paula bear.
Eventually, what we do want isto have walter's burgers and
grub, where it could be a burgerspot, but it's the walter the
(15:48):
walrus and paula bear drinkeryyeah, and then paula bear can
have her own drinkery where it'slike cocktails for kids or like
boba shops and stuff like that.
So that's our overarching goalfor the brand.
After we expand Vapor Penguinand it becomes a mainstream
brand.
Brian Sheehan (16:05):
That's really interesting and I don't see a
lot of that approach whereyou're creating this immersive
environment and brand identitythat helps connect with the key
foundational character, the nameand inspiration behind the
product.
Well, Paulo and Leo, it wasgreat speaking with you today.
Thank you for joining me onRetail Intel.
Leo San Luis (16:28):
Thanks for having us.
Thanks for having us.
Brian Sheehan (16:31):
Be on the lookout for new Vampire Penguin
locations opening near you andbe sure to check them out on
Instagram at Vampire PenguinSnow.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
work, this podcast is your allaccess pass to the world of
commercial real estate and ifyou're interested in being a
(16:54):
part of the Retail Intel podcast, connect with me on LinkedIn or
send a message tonationalaccounts at
phillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I am thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail,
the aisles of shopping centersand the world of commercial
property investment.
With me today are Paolo AngeloSan Luis and Leo Alejandro San
(00:28):
Luis, co-founders of VampirePenguin.
Vampire Penguin conjures shavedsnow magic to bring family and
friends together and is one ofthe most interesting and unique
dessert brands expanding today.
If you haven't heard of ShavedSnow Magic, you're in for a real
treat and I'm excited to learnmore.
Paolo, leo, welcome.
Leo San Luis (00:50):
Hello, thanks for having us.
Paolo San Luis (00:52):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
Brian Sheehan (00:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for coming on.
So I'd love to start with yourbackground.
What were you guys doing beforeyou got into the dessert
business?
Leo San Luis (01:01):
Well for me, hello , my name is Leo and before this
business I was actually workingas a dental manager, handling
all the teeth.
And it's kind of ironic becausenow I'm in the dessert business
and before I would be handlingthe cavities and submitting the
medical claims and all that.
So that's what I did before.
Paolo San Luis (01:21):
And hi, my name is Paulo and I graduated as a
biology major, was heading tofollow in our parents' footsteps
of becoming a dentist.
But after I graduated it justwasn't making me fulfilled and I
just thought maybe a businesswith my brother will be a better
way to go.
And so we started VampirePenguin.
Brian Sheehan (01:41):
Yeah, so let's talk about that One.
It's such a unique, interestingname, and then you guys have a
really innovative spin, I think,on this whole category.
But so how did the launch ofVampire Penguin come about?
Paolo San Luis (01:56):
Yeah.
So about a few months after Igraduated I spoke with my
brother and we were like, hey,let's go start a business.
And Leo asked me well, whatkind of business do you want to
start?
Well, we both grew up in thePhilippines and we always loved
shaved ice.
But when we moved here back in2000, we were so amazed by how
much interpretation of shavedice is out here, including
(02:18):
Hawaiian, taiwanese and, ofcourse, the American snow cone.
So we just kind of wanted tocombine the elements that we
like from the Hawaiian being sofluffy and light and the
Taiwanese being creamy, and, ofcourse, the American snow cone
with its flavor profile and theappeal to the mass market.
We just kind of wanted tocombine the elements that we
(02:38):
liked and created the recipethat we have now and, of course,
penguin, so naming the company.
Of course Penguin is associatedwith snow and ice, but Vampire,
because the product that wecame up with is something out of
this world, like a vampire.
Penguin shouldn't exist, justlike our product shouldn't exist
.
Brian Sheehan (02:56):
I love it.
That's great.
So you guys are sitting aroundthinking about different kinds
of businesses that you mightlike to start, different kinds
of businesses that you mightlike to start.
How did you land on a dessertbusiness?
Leo San Luis (03:12):
What is it that you love about desserts or a
retail business?
Well, one thing I did realizeis that, in a dessert business,
most people that come in arehappy to eat it and they leave
happy.
It's a sweet and enjoyabledessert.
Happy, you know, it's a sweetand enjoyable dessert.
We also did notice that thereare limited options in terms of
desserts, in terms of dairy-free, sugar-free.
So we decided, hey, we canprobably come up with something
(03:34):
different for the people toselect from, and that's where
Shave Snow came from.
Brian Sheehan (03:39):
You know, it's such a competitive space that
you guys are operating in andthere's just generally so much
competition for space in ourshopping centers and retail
generally these days.
What are some things that makefor folks that aren't familiar?
What are some things that makeVampire Penguin unique, like
what's going to jump out at youimmediately after you walk into
(04:01):
one of your cafes after you walkinto one of your cafes.
Paolo San Luis (04:08):
So of course the name has a lot to do with
just the interest and just kindof piquing curiosity of what
this business is Like.
Shakespeare itself is not amainstream dessert.
There is a lot of kind ofeducation going on.
At the same time there's a lotof barriers that gets a
first-time customer to actuallytry the product.
Of course those are thechallenges.
But once a customer tries it,enjoys it, shares it with their
family, then they becomeconverted into becoming fans of
(04:33):
shaved snow.
Leo San Luis (04:34):
Yeah, usually a lot of people would correlate
our product with shaved ice andwe just say you just have to try
it.
It's light, fluffy and it's notlike the traditional snow cone
that you're gonna be having.
It's pretty fluffy and it's notlike the traditional snow cone
that you're going to be having.
It's pretty much a combinationof all the desserts that we love
.
Brian Sheehan (04:49):
Yeah, I guess I didn't realize there's so much
differentiation in this space.
I grew up in the Midwest andI'm familiar with dairy whip
snow cone, so shaved ice withdifferent flavorings.
It ends up being kind of like aslushy, you know, but your
creation is, I don't know.
(05:10):
It's just so much more robustand more offerings to it.
I guess I wanted to just maybetalk a little bit more about
that point of differentiation.
Paolo San Luis (05:19):
Like.
What we always say is that ourSh snow magic is the final
evolution of shaved ice.
Just because there's no slushyat the end, the flavor is
already mixed in the blockbefore we shave it, so it's all
consistent throughout.
The texture is like eating acloud.
At the same time, it gives youthe satisfaction of ice cream
(05:40):
and definitely that is thebiggest differentiation from
Hawaiian Taiwanese and as wellas the snow cone or shaved ice
itself, and also when it'spresented, it looks like it
doesn't look like shaved ice, itlooks like a cake.
It looks like you're eating adessert from a fine dining
restaurant.
It does, which, of course, isbest to share with your friends
and family, and that's why webring friends and families
(06:02):
together with Shaved Snow Magic.
Brian Sheehan (06:05):
Yeah, it's a pretty massive serving.
I felt like and it is sosurprising because you think the
texture does appear to be kindof like a cold cake.
But once you dig into it yourealize, wow, this is something
completely different.
I've never had anything like itbefore.
It's so surprising andrevealing.
I wanted to talk a little moreabout the specifics.
(06:26):
So the landlords that aren'tfamiliar with you around the
country, or maybe brokers bigpart of our audience.
What is the sweet spot?
Square footage wise, what sizebase are you looking for?
Leo San Luis (06:40):
The sweet spot for a vampire penguin will be 800
to 1200 square feet.
That size perfectly fits theoperations and equipments that
we recommend, along with thesupply space that they can hold
on and turn out the product,along with ample seating of
course, how many seats do youtypically have in a typical?
Brian Sheehan (07:00):
Usually like 30 to 35 seats.
Yeah, it's very efficient.
Paolo San Luis (07:04):
But usually for a dessert business like this
the turnover is pretty fast.
What's the typical cycle time?
Usually it takes a family of,let's say, four.
They would order the dessertcomes out within five minutes
stay there for another 10minutes, so around 15 to 20.
What's the average ticket price?
The average ticket price isaround $8 for a small and around
(07:26):
11 to 12 for a large.
Brian Sheehan (07:28):
Okay, and if you guys are comfortable sharing
with it, what's typical AUV forone of your stores?
Paolo San Luis (07:34):
So an average income for a typical Vamper
Penguin is around 25,000 grossmonthly and of course it
averages out throughout the year, where we're busier in the
summer, and of course it slowsdown in the wintertime.
Brian Sheehan (07:48):
Yeah, gotcha.
And how many locations arethere open currently?
Leo San Luis (07:52):
Currently we have 35 locations open all over the
United States Florida,california, south Carolina yeah.
Brian Sheehan (07:58):
And how many do you expect will be open by the
end of the year?
Paolo San Luis (08:02):
By the end of the year, probably another five,
and in 2025, we're expecting toopen another five so far,
that's great, nice, steadygrowth.
Brian Sheehan (08:13):
I think we talked about the business model.
It's not a franchise model,it's not a corporate model, it's
a licensing model.
Is that right?
And for anybody that's notfamiliar with it, how's that
different?
Paolo San Luis (08:24):
Yeah, so it's the reason why we went through
the licensing route as opposedto a franchise.
There are a few similarities,Of course.
You license out or franchiseout the trade name and the
business know-how to yourlicensee, but the biggest
difference is that we don'tcontrol the business owner.
Our mission statement is tolicense the brand name and the
(08:44):
business somehow to licenseesthat can grow the business on
their own.
So a lot of the work and theresources come from the licensee
.
We don't control the marketing.
We don't control the businessoperation, but we do guide them
from the ground up, fromdesigning the space to the build
out support as well as supplies.
Leo San Luis (09:04):
And this strategy really maximizes them to be
creative and also reduce theircost in the build-out and
running the business.
So that's really one of thebiggest benefits of the
licensing.
Brian Sheehan (09:15):
That's so key right now.
You know every cost sensitivityis, if it's not at a peak, it's
near an all-time high.
So I think anything that you'redoing to provide resources and
also minimize their startupcosts and operational costs has
got to be a real key benefit.
Leo San Luis (09:34):
Yeah.
Paolo San Luis (09:35):
And I think that's the result of our organic
and steady growth.
We're not growing so fast whereall of a sudden we realize that
the concept is not working theway we're doing.
It is very slow and steady andquite democratic.
Brian Sheehan (09:50):
Well, let's talk more about that.
Where are you growing?
Where are you looking to grow?
There are specific targetmarkets that people should be on
lookout for in terms of futurelocations.
Paolo San Luis (10:01):
Yeah, so right now we are growing in Florida,
south Carolina, georgia,mississippi, tennessee, new
Jersey, hopefully in New York.
Soon we have some in Texas,colorado, arizona, california
and Seattle Washington.
So what we typically look foris locations that target our
(10:21):
target market, which are youngfamilies, but to be specific,
it's women ages 25 to 45.
And usually that relates toyounger mothers.
Younger families, yeah thatmakes sense.
Brian Sheehan (10:34):
What are some other, I guess, key factors that
you're looking for, that you'relooking for your licensees to
consider when they're evaluatinga potential property?
What do you like to be near?
Paolo San Luis (10:44):
So, of course, near businesses that cater to
our target market, the families,Businesses that host kids, like
a Chuck E Cheese, for example,or a Dave Buster's it's like an
arcade business Restaurantsbecause it's very symbiotic with
their like.
Usually after they have dinnerthen they can go out and have
(11:06):
dessert.
Brian Sheehan (11:06):
And what's the process look like for your
licensees when they're selectinga site?
Are you guys actively involvedin that?
Paolo San Luis (11:14):
Yes, so we typically ask for pictures and
of course, hopefully somemarketing study by the landlord
or the broker where we can justkind of go off and see all right
, well, this is the size of thepopulation, this is the, the
median income, the businessesaround it and what is the
development within the next fiveyears.
And once they sign the lease,we usually help them design a
(11:34):
draft floor plan with equipmentplacement and they can turn that
into their architect draftsmanif they have to do permits and
stuff like that.
But our biggest tip usually isespecially for first-time
business owners.
Our licensing program attractsa lot of first-time business
owners.
We usually want them to kind ofmanage their risk and usually
the biggest way to do that is,of course, location, location,
(11:57):
location.
At the same time, finding alocation that used to be a
previous food facility, justbecause it does save you a lot
of money on construction, yeah,and we've seen licensees.
Brian Sheehan (12:09):
So second generation restaurants are key.
Yeah, second generation.
Paolo San Luis (12:13):
Uh, just because we've seen licensees
open their store, a fullyoperational from 25 000 to as
high as 100 000, and that reallyjust depends on what kind of
space they find.
Brian Sheehan (12:23):
Is there anything unique in terms of the
build-out that you might nototherwise expect from call it,
like you know, a typical icecream store restaurant that
specializes in frozen desserts?
Leo San Luis (12:36):
I mean for us, whatever the location offers in
terms of electricity and watersupply, it's usually not a
problem because it goes down tothe temperature and the
equipment that we provide and,along with the proprietary snow
powder that we sell them.
So there's usually no specialequipment or special features
required for this business.
Brian Sheehan (12:58):
Okay, and I assume you don't need a
drive-through window.
Paolo San Luis (13:02):
We're open to that definitely yeah, we have a
store in Fargo, North Dakota,that does have a drive-thru and
it does help them throughout thewintertime.
It's not necessary, but if thespace has it, great.
Leo San Luis (13:14):
And the product itself looks pretty good with
the to-go concept too.
Brian Sheehan (13:18):
Oh, I bet it does .
I was just thinking that yourability to flex into different
kinds of spaces as long as it'sgot the right infrastructure,
you could go inline.
You could take an end cap space, you can be inline with a
grocery if it was one of ourshopping centers.
You just got a lot offlexibility, as long as you're
seeing some of those other typesof users that you want to be
(13:39):
around.
Paolo San Luis (13:40):
Yes, and the concept itself can be applied to
not just retail but, of course,mobile concept, as well as
smaller footprints like kiosksand takeout windows only, or
like even anchoring next to agrocery store, for example, like
having a stall at a grocerystore.
The concept will work in anyspace.
Brian Sheehan (14:00):
Interesting.
Leo San Luis (14:01):
It's very easily condensable.
Brian Sheehan (14:03):
It's very condensable.
Leo San Luis (14:04):
Yes, we actually have a few trailers and food
trucks already functioning inArizona and South Carolina, so
there's already a proof ofconcept of that.
Brian Sheehan (14:14):
What's the best way to present sites to either
you or your licensees?
Just send those direct to you.
Paolo San Luis (14:22):
So typically we have licensees that close the
deal with us saying, hey, I wanta territory.
We signed the deal and theirnext step is usually looking for
a location and they wouldusually go on LoopNetcom or
CityFeedcom.
But of course it would be greatif we can connect them with a
singular broker that can providethem.
(14:44):
Hey, I'm looking at, forexample, Allegheny County in
Pennsylvania.
This is the licensee lookingfor a location, this is their
contact.
It would be great if they canjust get a list from a singular
broker.
Brian Sheehan (14:57):
Paolo and Leo, where do you guys want to see
this brand go, or grow, over thenext five years?
Paolo San Luis (15:03):
So, yeah, so we want to dive more into the lore
and the story of the VampirePenguins.
If you ever look us up onInstagram or on the website, he
does have a short story book, wehave kids books, we have
plushies, and our goal for thatis to basically create a brand
or elevate him through mediawhere he can be in kids movies,
(15:27):
he can be his own animation show, a clothing brand and
eventually create this wholeworld where it can be in the
theme park and, of course, theShades of Noir tying it all
together, all together.
And of course, he has friends.
He has walter the walrus, hehas paula bear.
Eventually, what we do want isto have walter's burgers and
grub, where it could be a burgerspot, but it's the walter the
(15:48):
walrus and paula bear drinkeryyeah, and then paula bear can
have her own drinkery where it'slike cocktails for kids or like
boba shops and stuff like that.
So that's our overarching goalfor the brand.
After we expand Vapor Penguinand it becomes a mainstream
brand.
Brian Sheehan (16:05):
That's really interesting and I don't see a
lot of that approach whereyou're creating this immersive
environment and brand identitythat helps connect with the key
foundational character, the nameand inspiration behind the
product.
Well, Paulo and Leo, it wasgreat speaking with you today.
Thank you for joining me onRetail Intel.
Leo San Luis (16:28):
Thanks for having us.
Thanks for having us.
Brian Sheehan (16:31):
Be on the lookout for new Vampire Penguin
locations opening near you andbe sure to check them out on
Instagram at Vampire PenguinSnow.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
work, this podcast is your allaccess pass to the world of
commercial real estate and ifyou're interested in being a
(16:54):
part of the Retail Intel podcast, connect with me on LinkedIn or
send a message tonationalaccounts at
phillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
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