March 10, 2025 • 30 mins
What makes a physical store truly worth visiting in today's digital-first world? Melissa Gonzalez, founder of MG2 Advisory, reveals the evolution of retail design that's reshaping how brands connect with consumers through physical spaces. Listen now and join the conversation about creating spaces that deliver experiences digital simply cannot replicate.
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Episode Transcript
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Brian Sheehan (00:04):
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail,
the aisles of shopping centersand the world of commercial
property investment.
With me today is MelissaGonzalez, principal and founder
(00:26):
of MG2 Advisory, a strategy andinsights practice focused on the
integration of physical, retailand e-commerce.
Drawing on her success workingside-by-side with some of the
fastest growingdirect-to-consumer companies and
well-established brands, sheadvises clients and design teams
(00:48):
on how to leverageforward-thinking insights with
innovative strategy, fromconcept through implementation,
continually pushing theboundaries of experiential
environments.
Mg2 sits at the forefront ofintegrating physical and digital
with cutting-edge concepts thatfoster foundational consumer
(01:08):
engagement and lifetime value.
I'm excited to learn more,melissa.
Welcome.
How are you?
Melissa Gonzalez (01:15):
I'm good, you know, enjoying the snow, but I'm
very good.
Brian Sheehan (01:20):
It's that time of year right.
Melissa Gonzalez (01:21):
It's that time of year.
It's that time of year.
I just you know if it's goingto happen.
I want to be able to makesnowmen and snow angels and all
of that.
It's much better than when it'slike slushy and icy, but we'll
roll with it.
Brian Sheehan (01:31):
Yeah, an inch of snow is not getting it done.
Melissa Gonzalez (01:33):
No when it comes to.
Brian Sheehan (01:37):
Well, I'd love to start with your background.
Can you tell us about yourcareer journey into the world of
retail design and what inspiredyou to start MG2?
Melissa Gonzalez (01:51):
Yeah Well, I can't take credit for starting
MG2, but I could take credit forMG2 Advisory.
But to go back, I have a kind ofnon-conventional background
which is, I think, additive tothe lens I could bring to the
work.
But prior to being acquired byMG2, I worked on Wall Street, I
was in institutional equitiesand so you know I was a
generalist and spent my days,you know, at the trading desk
and also road showing withmanagement teams that were
(02:11):
either IPO or secondary offering, et cetera, and so really spent
the start of my career sittingat the table, hearing the
stories, hearing the challenges,hearing what investors are
poking at, and then transitionthat to a more creative avenue
by starting the Lioness Group,which was known as an
(02:32):
experiential agency.
We started with pop-up retailand then evolved from pop-up to
also permanent and then wereacquired by MG2.
Right at the end of 2019,announced it beginning 2020, by
MG2.
Right at the end of 2019,announced it beginning 2020,
just in time for COVID, and thenlast year we launched MG2
Advisory, which was a vision Ihad for the organization.
(02:52):
So it's been an interestingprogression and I think the
through line in my career hasbeen that lens of being a
storyteller but alsounderstanding the business
aspects of it what are thedrivers, what are the challenges
and how we work with ourclients to navigate that as the
world continues to evolve really, and what's the elevator pitch
for MG2 Advisory?
Brian Sheehan (03:14):
How do you explain what you do to potential
clients?
Melissa Gonzalez (03:18):
Yeah, so we're constantly curious
investigative research andinsights on consumer behavior,
evolving trends, and then we arepartners to both our clients
and design teams to support howthat manifests, but creatively,
but grounded in data andinsights.
Brian Sheehan (03:37):
What are some of the most significant changes
you've seen in retail designover the past five, 10 years?
Melissa Gonzalez (03:44):
You know it's interesting, right, because
you're like what has been a gamechanger, like so much
progresses and evolves, more sothan is like this every year.
It's like what's the new trend?
I'm like, well, there's acontinuum of some trends, some
trends drop off right and then,once in a while, there's new.
But for what I'm constantlywatching right now is and it's
not a new topic, but it's aprogression is really how
(04:12):
technology is shaping behaviorand what does that mean for how
it manifests in store onmultiple levels.
There's the way in which we aspeople integrate with technology
reshapes our way of being, ourexpectations, how we interact,
how we absorb information, howwe discover, and so it changes
kind of the expectation of thecontinuum when we go into
physical spaces.
So for me, it's thecross-generational influence,
(04:35):
you know, and that yin and yangof that dynamic of the
influencer being Gen Alpha, youknow, even beyond Gen Z and
their expectations and how theyinteract and discover, and so
how is that manifesting?
And I think you see a spectrumof that, like, for example, gen
Alpha is having birthday partiesat Sephora, you know, not just
the American Girl store anymore.
(04:55):
So like what are we learningfrom that?
But then also that behavior ofalways being connected creates
this desire for disconnectionand for well-being.
And so how does that manifestin store design?
You know, evaluating materialityisn't a new thing, but what it
evokes and how we consider thatwithin the design, I think has
(05:15):
been a nice evolution.
Everything from textures andcolors to sound and lighting and
like all of those things.
It's always been like a brandconversation and I think now
it's also bridging, like brandand wellbeing, and how does that
coexist?
Or or just energy you want toevoke in general.
You know, maybe it is,sometimes it's a calming mood,
sometimes it's an energetic one.
(05:36):
And just what I find overarchingexciting is, again, not a new
conversation, but I think, onethat more and more brands are
realizing that they have to.
Again, not a new conversation,but I think one that more and
more brands are realizing thatthey have to consider is what is
the point of a store?
And it's not what it used to be, because when consumers
(05:58):
interact, it's a continuousrelationship with the brand
across all these touch points,and so as fulfillment gets more
creative and discovery evolves,then what is the point of a
physical store, instead oflooking at it in this isolated
P&L box and so slowly.
That's giving us theopportunity to get more creative
.
Brian Sheehan (06:13):
And the answer to that question what is the point
of a store?
Changes based on who you'reworking with, or do you feel
like there's a global kind ofchange that's happened, that you
know?
That answers that question.
What is the point of a storetoday?
Melissa Gonzalez (06:29):
I think it's a mix of the two.
Right, because there'soverarching changing behaviors.
But then you do need to thinkabout it from a brand point of
view, because sometimes you knowit's about different things
that you can't satisfy on thoseother channels.
It's about different thingsthat you can't satisfy on those
other channels.
So I've brought this up inother interviews, but I love the
example, like with our clientKizik.
(06:51):
You know, when we evaluate thatand we think about what's the
most important thing that has tohappen in a physical
environment, yes, we want thesale, but it's that the person
puts their foot in the shoe forthe first time because it
unlocks fandom, because, nomatter what we say online about
(07:13):
that seamless slip in, you don'tfully appreciate it until you
experience it.
And then it unlocks theirbelief for that product for
themselves.
But also, oh, this would begreat for my mom, this would be
great for my grandma, this wouldbe great for my kids and that
is super powerful.
So if they don't do anythingelse in the store, that's the
most important thing.
So that becomes an importantfactor as we approach customer
journey and store design.
(07:33):
And then another arena is maybeit's about community building
and what's the opportunity ofthat as a brand, and I think
brands like Arafa has done thatfor a long time and I always
like it as an example, because,yes, they sell equipment for
cyclers right, but if you ride abike you don't need something
new all the time.
(07:53):
But the way that they'vecreated this global network
effect of like I feel like I'mpart of something because I go
to Arafa and we watch cyclingtogether or we go biking
together, whatever it creates adifferent emotional connection
of the brand and then their topof mind for those you know, a
few times a year you might needthe equipment, but the loyalty
(08:13):
it drives like that's thespecial part of their
destination.
Brian Sheehan (08:17):
So you're talking about the things that you can't
satisfy on other channels, andthe example with Kizik is that
you really need to be in thestore to experience what it's
like to put your foot into thatshoe right.
Melissa Gonzalez (08:29):
Mm-hmm, and then with Rafa, it's the aha
moment that happens, yeah.
Brian Sheehan (08:32):
It's an aha moment, and social media isn't
going to ever fully convey tosomeone what that experience is
like.
Melissa Gonzalez (08:41):
No, I mean you might experience by watching
others through video content,but it's not the same as you
physically doing it yourself.
Brian Sheehan (08:48):
And then the Rafa example.
You hear a lot about communitybuilding.
What do you think they've donereally well in terms of building
a community of cyclists?
I mean, I get some of theircommunications.
I'm not an avid cyclist, so alittle bit washes over me, but I
guess I understand your point.
But what is it that you'd pointto them, you know, having done
(09:12):
really well?
In terms of building acommunity.
What is it that like they'reworld class at?
Melissa Gonzalez (09:16):
Yeah, I think the authenticity of it is
important.
You know, I think theauthenticity, the programming
which, again, authenticityshould sit on top of that too
the camaraderie it creates youknow people that are enthusiasts
of that.
There's a strong passion, andso I think that there's always
when you could be the nucleus oflike-minded people coming
(09:39):
together.
That's pretty powerful.
Brian Sheehan (09:42):
And what do you mean?
You said that what authenticityhas to sit on top of program.
What do you mean by that?
Melissa Gonzalez (09:48):
I think it's easy to just like you would look
at different swipe if you weredoing store design itself with
programming.
I think it's really easy forpeople to say like, oh, this
friend did this, so we should doit.
This friend did this, so weshould do it.
It doesn't mean that that isthe right thing for your brand,
or maybe it's an overarchingidea, but the way in which you
execute it needs to be aboutthat.
(10:08):
So I'll give you an exampleYears ago, when Lisa Mattress
had physical stores they're nowsold in partnership with West
Elm right but when we helpedopen the Lisa Dream Gallery,
probably a decade ago at thispoint, and we worked with them
on programming, it waseverything that we programmed
was about supporting their valueproposition, which was either a
(10:29):
great night's sleep or wasgiving back, because they had
this partnership with the Boweryand Mission and for every 10
mattresses they sold, theydonated one to homeless shelters
, and so every time there was adiscussion of programming in the
space did it support either ofthose two?
And then everything you dofurthers the message of your
(10:51):
commitment to those missions andthat's really important.
Brian Sheehan (10:55):
So you talked about store design a little bit.
I guess I want to let's go backto that where you're thinking
about how do you create a uniqueand memorable customer
experience in retail and itsounds like it goes beyond that,
which is not just to createsomething memorable, but it's
really got to be aligned withthe programming, has to be
aligned with the valueproposition.
How do you determine what arethose core things that have to
(11:20):
happen in a retail space?
Melissa Gonzalez (11:23):
Yeah, so oftentimes you know, the brand's
already been birthed when wework with them.
Once in a while we havesimultaneously opened their
first location the same daytheir website goes live.
So that's a whole differentconversation because that's a
first introduction.
But there's the style guides sowe immerse ourselves in like
what's the voice, what's thecolors, what's the meaning
(11:44):
behind those?
We assess materiality.
What do we want it to evoke andsay and message?
And so an example Sorrel was ahighly experiential pop-up we
did in Williamsburg, Brooklyn,two years ago.
They used to have stores.
They don't have stores anymore,but they were doing a pop-in
shop campaign in partnershipwith Nordstrom.
So they were going to be indozens of locations.
(12:06):
But a lot of that was going tobe their brand in somebody
else's environment, right?
So you could only take yourdesign so far.
And so we had this location inWilliamsburg.
That was more of a magnifiedexperience of the brand's voice
and all the things they wantedto pull forward.
(12:27):
So from a design standpoint,for example with the materiality
, the reason they wanted to doin Williamsburg was also the
messaging of New York as ourmuse, and New York has a lot of
textures and New York has gritand New York has a lot of
different dimensions to it, sohow were we jumping off of their
style guide and materialpalette to bring that to the
(12:49):
space?
You know concrete, thejuxtaposition of hard and soft
surfaces.
You know extreme commitments tothe saturation of orange,
bringing in augmented reality,so as she put on the boot, she
could insert herself intodifferent weather conditions
that happen throughout the year,for the messaging of this boot
(13:10):
has durability in all seasons,and so you know, again, it's
like the storytelling aspect ofit.
How can we pull that forwardwith design?
Brian Sheehan (13:18):
That's so incredible and there's so many
questions I want to ask aboutthat.
You know, how do you balancethe aesthetics and functionality
of a space?
And then within that there's aquestion of well, how do you do
that inside somebody else'sretail environment?
But just kind of generallyspeaking, how do you find a
balance between aesthetics andfunctionality when you're
(13:38):
thinking about a physical retailstore?
Melissa Gonzalez (13:41):
Yeah, so customer journey is always an
early conversation and in thebeginning we're kind of parallel
pathing, as we're looking atmateriality and what is the
scale of those materials, howthat's going to show up in space
, you know what's going to bethe primary, what's going to be
the secondary, and it's a veryhigh level mood board at that
point.
But at least we're aligning onthat.
And then simultaneously, yes,there is what is the narrative
(14:03):
of the experience?
And then how does that overlaywith the customer journey?
What is the story that startsfrom the outside in, you know,
from the street, and then whatis the first thing that happens
as they enter the space?
And then what are the littlespeed bumps or breadcrumbs along
the way?
And we'll tie that to a businessperspective, like I mentioned
(14:23):
with Kizik.
Right, because there's theultimate conversion of the
purchase, but there's microconversions that happen along
the way, points of engagement,points of education, points of
demystification, and so how arewe thinking about that along the
journey?
You know, some of it's going tobe through digital content,
some of it's going to be throughstorytelling, through visual
(14:44):
merchandising strategies, andlike, how are we helping guide
them through that experience?
So in those the early work.
We're kind of addressing bothat the same time and then, once
we find the space, then we'llmarry that all together.
Brian Sheehan (14:58):
Melissa, you talked about digital content and
I guess I'm curious.
Part of your expertise is howdo you integrate technology in
physical retail spaces?
But talk about the role oftechnology overall in today's
retail environment, if you can.
Melissa Gonzalez (15:15):
Yeah, I would say how do you integrate it?
The most important thing ispurposefully.
So it's been a buzzword for along time we're going to
integrate technology.
Technology is not easy.
It takes programming, it takesupkeep, it takes consistent
connectivity and it's mostsuccessful when it is furthering
(15:37):
intuitive behavior and it'sfrictionless.
So, while I think we're still invery early stages of the
fitting room, for example, anddisclosure, you know I sit on
the advisory board of CraveRetail, but the reason I was
excited to join that was becauseI do think that the fitting
room is this really intimateexperience that's happening.
(15:57):
There's a moment of intentionand exploration and engagement.
And how do we build off of that?
But you have to do that in away that's frictionless.
Of course, I can't feel creepy,but I think people understand.
You know there's no cameranecessarily watching the person
that's engaging with the productright, either through RFID
technology, what increaseexample?
It's RFID, but it can be, youknow, qr codes, barcodes, things
(16:20):
like that.
So it's about elevating thatexperience.
I know I'm trying on this topand in a personalized way.
Maybe you can tell me how topair it and make the outfit come
together or other sizes thatare available or what store it
is available with.
Like everything is serving me,and I think that that's
important and we have thatconversation with our clients
(16:42):
Like we really need to.
What do we consider success?
We really have to talk aboutthat before we decide what the
technology is.
How does it fit in the journey,how is it additive to that
journey, how is it going to befrictionless both to the store
teams and to the consumerengaging with it?
And then, is it operational, isit experiential?
Because those are alsodifferent things too, and
(17:07):
sometimes the most powerfultechnology the customer doesn't
even see, but it's puttinginformation and access in the
store associate's hands toelevate the experience.
So it's really like having aholistic mindset around it and
then a pragmatic one on top ofit, you know, so that you're
really thinking about all thosequestions together.
Brian Sheehan (17:26):
Well, so how do you see the future of brick and
mortar stores evolving in theage of, you know, technology,
integration and e-commerce?
Melissa Gonzalez (17:35):
You know, I'm I'm very curious about it
because I think whatever Ianswer today doesn't even it's
like the tip of the iceberg ofwhat it'll be in the next few
years as Gen Alpha continues torise and then everybody's
talking about the betas rightbehind it, who they're literally
born with AI now, and so when II constantly study my daughter
(17:56):
and her, her cousins and herfriends and what I think is
their seamless interactiononline and offline, like for us,
itlox and our creators andTikTok and all this stuff, right
(18:27):
, and so how is the store goingto create those seamless digital
, physical pathways and alsoempower that creator, that
creator?
And I'll give you an exampleLike, if I go to West Elm or
Pottery Barn or any home store,my daughter walks in with her
(18:47):
tablet and takes pictures andthen gets into Roblox and builds
out the room that she wants tocreate so that I could buy stuff
for her, and she's not eventhinking twice about it.
That's how she's engaging, andso that's what I'm studying and
curious about.
What is that going to mean?
Like you know, do they come tothe store for fulfillment?
(19:08):
Do they come to the store fordifferent layers of discovery?
Is it community first?
And it's going to be anevolution.
Brian Sheehan (19:15):
So you talked about how important it is to
seamlessly integrate theinteraction between online and
offline, so it feels seamless.
Is there any retailer that youpoint to today that's doing a
particularly good job of that,or is it a micro moment that
you've seen somewhere that is agreat example of that?
Melissa Gonzalez (19:35):
Yeah, I think that there's in varying degrees.
You know, I always bring upNike as like a best in class and
I think you know there's aspectrum of why things position
brands to be more successful atit.
I think for Nike, because theyhave such an active in app
community already, a digitallyintegrated community interacting
(19:55):
with them as a brand, itbecomes more seamless to then
bridge that into the store youknow.
With them as a brand, itbecomes more seamless to then
bridge that into the store youknow.
And so for that it's like ifyou go to the house of
innovation, you know you couldput the items you want in your
app and then go pick it up.
There's a level ofpersonalization and so in those
environments with that brand,it's intuitive behavior.
And then I think that there'sothers where you're seeing it in
(20:16):
pieces.
I've been watching you know like, for example, with a with know
like, for example, with a CraveRetail.
They've done it with brandslike a Victoria's Secret, and
then they're also pilotingsomething now with American
Eagle, and so I also think it'slike the opportunity they're
going to have with outfitting isgoing to be different with an
apparel brand right than with anintimates brand, for example,
(20:37):
and so that's like varyingdegrees of successful
integration, I think, justbecause of what the customer is
looking for in thoseenvironments.
I feel like when it comes tothings like AR and VR, we
probably have longer ways to go,but I think with endless aisle
or integrated fitting rooms andthings like that, I think we've
(20:58):
started to see more and moresuccess in that happening.
Brian Sheehan (21:01):
You work with a lot of fast growing brands and
what advice do you give to themwhen you're talking about, you
know, the creation of theirphysical environment?
How do you, how do you help,guide them to get the most out
of a physical store today?
Melissa Gonzalez (21:16):
Mm.
Hmm, yeah, we always ask whatdo we consider success?
For sure, and we also do a deepdive into what are the you know
, what is the information?
Because a lot of them that arecoming to us to go into physical
, they've been digital.
So we're benefiting from dataand we have deep dive
conversations.
How are people discovering you?
You know what are the productsthey're going to first, what is
the path that we're seeing themget to Like?
(21:37):
How are they adding those plusones into the cart we're seeing
them get to like?
How are they adding those plusones into the cart?
How do we think, whatinformation do you think or
experience that you cannotmanifest in digital platforms
that we want to pull forward inphysical retail?
And so it's really that study inthe beginning and then, from an
advisory standpoint, it'soverlaying it with our library
(21:57):
of insights or we'll commissioncustomized research to dive
deeper on overarching trends.
So, for example, there's a lotof overarching trends out there,
right, we live in a digital,connected world and people are
wanting community and wellbeingand there's a lot of themes.
But then we'll take a deeperdive of OK, well, what does that
(22:18):
mean for the opportunities ofhow it manifests in physical
environments.
When we say we want to evoke asense of community, ok, well,
what kind of community?
What does your community careabout?
How do they want to engage withthat community?
Deeper levels of insights andinformation so that we can pull
(22:40):
those overarching themes forwardin a way that feels unique and
special and, again, authentic tothe brand and speaks to the
customer in the way in which youknow they want to engage.
So it's a pretty deep dive inthe beginning and all of that
then would guide how we thinkthrough the customer journey and
(23:01):
all those breadcrumbs and thespeed bumps and those moments of
discovery and engagement.
Brian Sheehan (23:06):
I'm thinking about a brand like Supreme that
built a skate park inside theirstore.
Yeah, and that would be anexample of how they decided they
wanted to engage with theircommunity.
Melissa Gonzalez (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, I was just in Shanghai at the end
of last year because we have anoffice in Shanghai and I went to
the Supreme store in Shanghaiand so it was cool to see it
there too.
But, yeah, it's okay.
What is, when we think ofstreetwear and style and this
community, and what are thoseactivities that make sense that
will speak to the audience, youknow.
So for that one, yeah, I thinkthat's a great example.
(23:40):
I think they've been reallysuccessful over the years of
thinking about that, becauseit's like that brand, they have
an opportunity to tap into bothculture and subculture, which is
even deeper, I think, and Ithink, on average, like a lot of
the footwear brands have hadthat too.
You know, it's like this oneindustry and it's evolved as a
(24:01):
secondary market because kind ofevolved.
But you know, those are thekinds of brands where I know,
when we've done pop ups, forexample, in past years with Puma
and others, we could put thatlocation almost anywhere and
that audience will find youbecause it has such a deep
rooting in, like, not justculture but subculture around it
(24:22):
and I think that's, you know,that's an even deeper
opportunity to tap into.
Brian Sheehan (24:26):
It's kind of the definition of how you create a
destination.
Melissa Gonzalez (24:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
Brian Sheehan (24:32):
I'm curious.
So you talk about at the outsetof the conversation, with the
brand it's, you know, with thebrand it's, you know, how do we
define success?
So once you've built thephysical retail store, it's open
and it's operating.
Sure.
Can you talk about some of themetrics that you're looking for
that help you measure howsuccessful you were in achieving
(24:55):
you know those goals?
Melissa Gonzalez (24:57):
Yeah, and this is why what do we consider
success?
Conversation at the beginningis critical because it's not
always going to be the sameanswer.
There's plenty of brands wherethe store they recognize is for
marketing, and so it's about howmany new customers did we gain?
How much more is the customeralready had spending with us?
How much more often are theyvisiting us now?
(25:17):
Did we unlock a different levelof fandom?
Are we selling SKUs that wedidn't move before?
So there's that aspect of it isunderstanding what is the
purpose of it.
If it's an individual store,sometimes it's also a network
effect, like, if you look atcompanies like Dick's Sporting
Goods, they have outlet stores,they have main stores, they have
now like house of sports stores, right, and they all kind of
(25:39):
serve different purposes.
They have now like house ofsports stores, right, and they
all kind of serve differentpurposes.
But the average customer whointersects and experiences them
across those different formatsversus just one, is spending
more, is visiting the brand moreoften, is more loyal, right.
So it's really understandingagain, like either your
standalone store or yourplaybook of formats, what does
(26:01):
this format mean for the otherformats?
What does it mean holistically?
And so there's a lot of answers,but I think, as we continue to
investigate what is the point ofthe store and understanding
it's a touch point and acontinuum of touch points in the
relationship with the customerand the brand, then you're
studying it a little bitdifferently.
You're appreciating, you know,the halo effect.
(26:23):
You're studying again, like Isaid, is it a new customer?
That's number one.
If it's an existing customer,are they spending more?
Are they returning productsless frequently?
Are they coming back to yourbrand more often?
Are they adding more productsyou know to the cart than they
would have in the past?
Are they becoming advocates foryour brand?
(26:43):
So there's a lot of differentthings you could measure, but
really setting that up up front,I think, is critical.
To tie it to the question ofwhat do we consider success.
Brian Sheehan (26:54):
It kind of brings me back to the question that
you already touched on a littlebit.
So how you see the future ofbrick and mortar stores evolving
really has to be answered by abrand and within the subcategory
of the type of retail storethat they want to operate.
And you're going to havedifferent stores over time,
(27:16):
maybe, depending on the size ofyour brand.
Maybe the first, maybe aSupreme, for example, small shop
operator, maybe they don't haveas many types of stores, or do
you think to be successful today, you really need to think about
operating different kinds ofstores in order to be able to
engage customers in differentways?
(27:37):
It's not an either or.
Melissa Gonzalez (27:38):
I think it's not a one size fits all answer,
because I think for some brandstheir strategy might be we're
only going to have eight to 10stores in key cities and that's
our playbook, and then we'regoing to have different kinds of
marketing strategies and others, and that might be kind of what
their plan is today.
You need some sort ofconsistency when you want to
(28:00):
scale, because having everysingle one completely
differentiated becomes expensivebecause you don't get any
economy as a scale right andbuilding it out and how you
operate it and stuff.
So you probably need to be at acertain scale when you have a
robust playbook, like theexample I mentioned with Dick's
or the way Nordstrom has with,like, their full line stores,
(28:20):
their rack stores and theirlocal Right.
But either way, I think there'san opportunity.
So, say you, you only going tohave eight to 10 permanent
stores.
Maybe you're complementing thatwith a mobile retail strategy
or pop up strategy or shop andshop strategy, you know, and
then understanding how that allcomplements each other.
Brian Sheehan (28:41):
Well, this is.
This is really incredible.
Melissa, I noticed that yourecently joined forces with
Collier's Engineering and Design, which sounds like an exciting
development.
Can you talk about thispartnership a little bit and
what to expect?
Melissa Gonzalez (28:57):
Sure, it's very early stages, so we
announced it at the end of lastyear.
But you know, I think everytransition Linus to MG2, mg2 to
now partnering with Collier'sEngineering and Design the
spirit of it is really justcontinuing to expand our promise
to our clients and being ableto expand our geographic
(29:17):
footprint, being able to expandour network of expertise.
And you know, I think there's alot of different elements of
design where I said it's a lotof the interiors, but as an
organization we also have groundup.
We also have different sorts ofenvironments outside of just
retail.
So it's being able to partnerwith landscape designers and
(29:39):
engineering and MEP and stuffthat we didn't have in-house
before.
So it's going to be exciting tosee how we continue to bring
all of that together.
Brian Sheehan (29:48):
Well, melissa, it was great speaking with you
today.
Thank you for joining me onRetail Intel.
Yeah, be sure to check out MG2at MG2.com and on Instagram at
MG to underscore design.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
(30:08):
work, this podcast is your allaccess pass to the world of
commercial real estate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail Intelpodcast, send a message to
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutthe business of retail and what
makes a successful store, keeptuning in to Retail Intel and
(30:32):
please subscribe, follow, likeand repost.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast where we
dive deep into the dynamic worldof commercial real estate.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to be your
guide on this journey throughthe bustling streets of retail,
the aisles of shopping centersand the world of commercial
property investment.
With me today is MelissaGonzalez, principal and founder
(00:26):
of MG2 Advisory, a strategy andinsights practice focused on the
integration of physical, retailand e-commerce.
Drawing on her success workingside-by-side with some of the
fastest growingdirect-to-consumer companies and
well-established brands, sheadvises clients and design teams
(00:48):
on how to leverageforward-thinking insights with
innovative strategy, fromconcept through implementation,
continually pushing theboundaries of experiential
environments.
Mg2 sits at the forefront ofintegrating physical and digital
with cutting-edge concepts thatfoster foundational consumer
(01:08):
engagement and lifetime value.
I'm excited to learn more,melissa.
Welcome.
How are you?
Melissa Gonzalez (01:15):
I'm good, you know, enjoying the snow, but I'm
very good.
Brian Sheehan (01:20):
It's that time of year right.
Melissa Gonzalez (01:21):
It's that time of year.
It's that time of year.
I just you know if it's goingto happen.
I want to be able to makesnowmen and snow angels and all
of that.
It's much better than when it'slike slushy and icy, but we'll
roll with it.
Brian Sheehan (01:31):
Yeah, an inch of snow is not getting it done.
Melissa Gonzalez (01:33):
No when it comes to.
Brian Sheehan (01:37):
Well, I'd love to start with your background.
Can you tell us about yourcareer journey into the world of
retail design and what inspiredyou to start MG2?
Melissa Gonzalez (01:51):
Yeah Well, I can't take credit for starting
MG2, but I could take credit forMG2 Advisory.
But to go back, I have a kind ofnon-conventional background
which is, I think, additive tothe lens I could bring to the
work.
But prior to being acquired byMG2, I worked on Wall Street, I
was in institutional equitiesand so you know I was a
generalist and spent my days,you know, at the trading desk
and also road showing withmanagement teams that were
(02:11):
either IPO or secondary offering, et cetera, and so really spent
the start of my career sittingat the table, hearing the
stories, hearing the challenges,hearing what investors are
poking at, and then transitionthat to a more creative avenue
by starting the Lioness Group,which was known as an
(02:32):
experiential agency.
We started with pop-up retailand then evolved from pop-up to
also permanent and then wereacquired by MG2.
Right at the end of 2019,announced it beginning 2020, by
MG2.
Right at the end of 2019,announced it beginning 2020,
just in time for COVID, and thenlast year we launched MG2
Advisory, which was a vision Ihad for the organization.
(02:52):
So it's been an interestingprogression and I think the
through line in my career hasbeen that lens of being a
storyteller but alsounderstanding the business
aspects of it what are thedrivers, what are the challenges
and how we work with ourclients to navigate that as the
world continues to evolve really, and what's the elevator pitch
for MG2 Advisory?
Brian Sheehan (03:14):
How do you explain what you do to potential
clients?
Melissa Gonzalez (03:18):
Yeah, so we're constantly curious
investigative research andinsights on consumer behavior,
evolving trends, and then we arepartners to both our clients
and design teams to support howthat manifests, but creatively,
but grounded in data andinsights.
Brian Sheehan (03:37):
What are some of the most significant changes
you've seen in retail designover the past five, 10 years?
Melissa Gonzalez (03:44):
You know it's interesting, right, because
you're like what has been a gamechanger, like so much
progresses and evolves, more sothan is like this every year.
It's like what's the new trend?
I'm like, well, there's acontinuum of some trends, some
trends drop off right and then,once in a while, there's new.
But for what I'm constantlywatching right now is and it's
not a new topic, but it's aprogression is really how
(04:12):
technology is shaping behaviorand what does that mean for how
it manifests in store onmultiple levels.
There's the way in which we aspeople integrate with technology
reshapes our way of being, ourexpectations, how we interact,
how we absorb information, howwe discover, and so it changes
kind of the expectation of thecontinuum when we go into
physical spaces.
So for me, it's thecross-generational influence,
(04:35):
you know, and that yin and yangof that dynamic of the
influencer being Gen Alpha, youknow, even beyond Gen Z and
their expectations and how theyinteract and discover, and so
how is that manifesting?
And I think you see a spectrumof that, like, for example, gen
Alpha is having birthday partiesat Sephora, you know, not just
the American Girl store anymore.
(04:55):
So like what are we learningfrom that?
But then also that behavior ofalways being connected creates
this desire for disconnectionand for well-being.
And so how does that manifestin store design?
You know, evaluating materialityisn't a new thing, but what it
evokes and how we consider thatwithin the design, I think has
(05:15):
been a nice evolution.
Everything from textures andcolors to sound and lighting and
like all of those things.
It's always been like a brandconversation and I think now
it's also bridging, like brandand wellbeing, and how does that
coexist?
Or or just energy you want toevoke in general.
You know, maybe it is,sometimes it's a calming mood,
sometimes it's an energetic one.
(05:36):
And just what I find overarchingexciting is, again, not a new
conversation, but I think, onethat more and more brands are
realizing that they have to.
Again, not a new conversation,but I think one that more and
more brands are realizing thatthey have to consider is what is
the point of a store?
And it's not what it used to be, because when consumers
(05:58):
interact, it's a continuousrelationship with the brand
across all these touch points,and so as fulfillment gets more
creative and discovery evolves,then what is the point of a
physical store, instead oflooking at it in this isolated
P&L box and so slowly.
That's giving us theopportunity to get more creative
.
Brian Sheehan (06:13):
And the answer to that question what is the point
of a store?
Changes based on who you'reworking with, or do you feel
like there's a global kind ofchange that's happened, that you
know?
That answers that question.
What is the point of a storetoday?
Melissa Gonzalez (06:29):
I think it's a mix of the two.
Right, because there'soverarching changing behaviors.
But then you do need to thinkabout it from a brand point of
view, because sometimes you knowit's about different things
that you can't satisfy on thoseother channels.
It's about different thingsthat you can't satisfy on those
other channels.
So I've brought this up inother interviews, but I love the
example, like with our clientKizik.
(06:51):
You know, when we evaluate thatand we think about what's the
most important thing that has tohappen in a physical
environment, yes, we want thesale, but it's that the person
puts their foot in the shoe forthe first time because it
unlocks fandom, because, nomatter what we say online about
(07:13):
that seamless slip in, you don'tfully appreciate it until you
experience it.
And then it unlocks theirbelief for that product for
themselves.
But also, oh, this would begreat for my mom, this would be
great for my grandma, this wouldbe great for my kids and that
is super powerful.
So if they don't do anythingelse in the store, that's the
most important thing.
So that becomes an importantfactor as we approach customer
journey and store design.
(07:33):
And then another arena is maybeit's about community building
and what's the opportunity ofthat as a brand, and I think
brands like Arafa has done thatfor a long time and I always
like it as an example, because,yes, they sell equipment for
cyclers right, but if you ride abike you don't need something
new all the time.
(07:53):
But the way that they'vecreated this global network
effect of like I feel like I'mpart of something because I go
to Arafa and we watch cyclingtogether or we go biking
together, whatever it creates adifferent emotional connection
of the brand and then their topof mind for those you know, a
few times a year you might needthe equipment, but the loyalty
(08:13):
it drives like that's thespecial part of their
destination.
Brian Sheehan (08:17):
So you're talking about the things that you can't
satisfy on other channels, andthe example with Kizik is that
you really need to be in thestore to experience what it's
like to put your foot into thatshoe right.
Melissa Gonzalez (08:29):
Mm-hmm, and then with Rafa, it's the aha
moment that happens, yeah.
Brian Sheehan (08:32):
It's an aha moment, and social media isn't
going to ever fully convey tosomeone what that experience is
like.
Melissa Gonzalez (08:41):
No, I mean you might experience by watching
others through video content,but it's not the same as you
physically doing it yourself.
Brian Sheehan (08:48):
And then the Rafa example.
You hear a lot about communitybuilding.
What do you think they've donereally well in terms of building
a community of cyclists?
I mean, I get some of theircommunications.
I'm not an avid cyclist, so alittle bit washes over me, but I
guess I understand your point.
But what is it that you'd pointto them, you know, having done
(09:12):
really well?
In terms of building acommunity.
What is it that like they'reworld class at?
Melissa Gonzalez (09:16):
Yeah, I think the authenticity of it is
important.
You know, I think theauthenticity, the programming
which, again, authenticityshould sit on top of that too
the camaraderie it creates youknow people that are enthusiasts
of that.
There's a strong passion, andso I think that there's always
when you could be the nucleus oflike-minded people coming
(09:39):
together.
That's pretty powerful.
Brian Sheehan (09:42):
And what do you mean?
You said that what authenticityhas to sit on top of program.
What do you mean by that?
Melissa Gonzalez (09:48):
I think it's easy to just like you would look
at different swipe if you weredoing store design itself with
programming.
I think it's really easy forpeople to say like, oh, this
friend did this, so we should doit.
This friend did this, so weshould do it.
It doesn't mean that that isthe right thing for your brand,
or maybe it's an overarchingidea, but the way in which you
execute it needs to be aboutthat.
(10:08):
So I'll give you an exampleYears ago, when Lisa Mattress
had physical stores they're nowsold in partnership with West
Elm right but when we helpedopen the Lisa Dream Gallery,
probably a decade ago at thispoint, and we worked with them
on programming, it waseverything that we programmed
was about supporting their valueproposition, which was either a
(10:29):
great night's sleep or wasgiving back, because they had
this partnership with the Boweryand Mission and for every 10
mattresses they sold, theydonated one to homeless shelters
, and so every time there was adiscussion of programming in the
space did it support either ofthose two?
And then everything you dofurthers the message of your
(10:51):
commitment to those missions andthat's really important.
Brian Sheehan (10:55):
So you talked about store design a little bit.
I guess I want to let's go backto that where you're thinking
about how do you create a uniqueand memorable customer
experience in retail and itsounds like it goes beyond that,
which is not just to createsomething memorable, but it's
really got to be aligned withthe programming, has to be
aligned with the valueproposition.
How do you determine what arethose core things that have to
(11:20):
happen in a retail space?
Melissa Gonzalez (11:23):
Yeah, so oftentimes you know, the brand's
already been birthed when wework with them.
Once in a while we havesimultaneously opened their
first location the same daytheir website goes live.
So that's a whole differentconversation because that's a
first introduction.
But there's the style guides sowe immerse ourselves in like
what's the voice, what's thecolors, what's the meaning
(11:44):
behind those?
We assess materiality.
What do we want it to evoke andsay and message?
And so an example Sorrel was ahighly experiential pop-up we
did in Williamsburg, Brooklyn,two years ago.
They used to have stores.
They don't have stores anymore,but they were doing a pop-in
shop campaign in partnershipwith Nordstrom.
So they were going to be indozens of locations.
(12:06):
But a lot of that was going tobe their brand in somebody
else's environment, right?
So you could only take yourdesign so far.
And so we had this location inWilliamsburg.
That was more of a magnifiedexperience of the brand's voice
and all the things they wantedto pull forward.
(12:27):
So from a design standpoint,for example with the materiality
, the reason they wanted to doin Williamsburg was also the
messaging of New York as ourmuse, and New York has a lot of
textures and New York has gritand New York has a lot of
different dimensions to it, sohow were we jumping off of their
style guide and materialpalette to bring that to the
(12:49):
space?
You know concrete, thejuxtaposition of hard and soft
surfaces.
You know extreme commitments tothe saturation of orange,
bringing in augmented reality,so as she put on the boot, she
could insert herself intodifferent weather conditions
that happen throughout the year,for the messaging of this boot
(13:10):
has durability in all seasons,and so you know, again, it's
like the storytelling aspect ofit.
How can we pull that forwardwith design?
Brian Sheehan (13:18):
That's so incredible and there's so many
questions I want to ask aboutthat.
You know, how do you balancethe aesthetics and functionality
of a space?
And then within that there's aquestion of well, how do you do
that inside somebody else'sretail environment?
But just kind of generallyspeaking, how do you find a
balance between aesthetics andfunctionality when you're
(13:38):
thinking about a physical retailstore?
Melissa Gonzalez (13:41):
Yeah, so customer journey is always an
early conversation and in thebeginning we're kind of parallel
pathing, as we're looking atmateriality and what is the
scale of those materials, howthat's going to show up in space
, you know what's going to bethe primary, what's going to be
the secondary, and it's a veryhigh level mood board at that
point.
But at least we're aligning onthat.
And then simultaneously, yes,there is what is the narrative
(14:03):
of the experience?
And then how does that overlaywith the customer journey?
What is the story that startsfrom the outside in, you know,
from the street, and then whatis the first thing that happens
as they enter the space?
And then what are the littlespeed bumps or breadcrumbs along
the way?
And we'll tie that to a businessperspective, like I mentioned
(14:23):
with Kizik.
Right, because there's theultimate conversion of the
purchase, but there's microconversions that happen along
the way, points of engagement,points of education, points of
demystification, and so how arewe thinking about that along the
journey?
You know, some of it's going tobe through digital content,
some of it's going to be throughstorytelling, through visual
(14:44):
merchandising strategies, andlike, how are we helping guide
them through that experience?
So in those the early work.
We're kind of addressing bothat the same time and then, once
we find the space, then we'llmarry that all together.
Brian Sheehan (14:58):
Melissa, you talked about digital content and
I guess I'm curious.
Part of your expertise is howdo you integrate technology in
physical retail spaces?
But talk about the role oftechnology overall in today's
retail environment, if you can.
Melissa Gonzalez (15:15):
Yeah, I would say how do you integrate it?
The most important thing ispurposefully.
So it's been a buzzword for along time we're going to
integrate technology.
Technology is not easy.
It takes programming, it takesupkeep, it takes consistent
connectivity and it's mostsuccessful when it is furthering
(15:37):
intuitive behavior and it'sfrictionless.
So, while I think we're still invery early stages of the
fitting room, for example, anddisclosure, you know I sit on
the advisory board of CraveRetail, but the reason I was
excited to join that was becauseI do think that the fitting
room is this really intimateexperience that's happening.
(15:57):
There's a moment of intentionand exploration and engagement.
And how do we build off of that?
But you have to do that in away that's frictionless.
Of course, I can't feel creepy,but I think people understand.
You know there's no cameranecessarily watching the person
that's engaging with the productright, either through RFID
technology, what increaseexample?
It's RFID, but it can be, youknow, qr codes, barcodes, things
(16:20):
like that.
So it's about elevating thatexperience.
I know I'm trying on this topand in a personalized way.
Maybe you can tell me how topair it and make the outfit come
together or other sizes thatare available or what store it
is available with.
Like everything is serving me,and I think that that's
important and we have thatconversation with our clients
(16:42):
Like we really need to.
What do we consider success?
We really have to talk aboutthat before we decide what the
technology is.
How does it fit in the journey,how is it additive to that
journey, how is it going to befrictionless both to the store
teams and to the consumerengaging with it?
And then, is it operational, isit experiential?
Because those are alsodifferent things too, and
(17:07):
sometimes the most powerfultechnology the customer doesn't
even see, but it's puttinginformation and access in the
store associate's hands toelevate the experience.
So it's really like having aholistic mindset around it and
then a pragmatic one on top ofit, you know, so that you're
really thinking about all thosequestions together.
Brian Sheehan (17:26):
Well, so how do you see the future of brick and
mortar stores evolving in theage of, you know, technology,
integration and e-commerce?
Melissa Gonzalez (17:35):
You know, I'm I'm very curious about it
because I think whatever Ianswer today doesn't even it's
like the tip of the iceberg ofwhat it'll be in the next few
years as Gen Alpha continues torise and then everybody's
talking about the betas rightbehind it, who they're literally
born with AI now, and so when II constantly study my daughter
(17:56):
and her, her cousins and herfriends and what I think is
their seamless interactiononline and offline, like for us,
itlox and our creators andTikTok and all this stuff, right
(18:27):
, and so how is the store goingto create those seamless digital
, physical pathways and alsoempower that creator, that
creator?
And I'll give you an exampleLike, if I go to West Elm or
Pottery Barn or any home store,my daughter walks in with her
(18:47):
tablet and takes pictures andthen gets into Roblox and builds
out the room that she wants tocreate so that I could buy stuff
for her, and she's not eventhinking twice about it.
That's how she's engaging, andso that's what I'm studying and
curious about.
What is that going to mean?
Like you know, do they come tothe store for fulfillment?
(19:08):
Do they come to the store fordifferent layers of discovery?
Is it community first?
And it's going to be anevolution.
Brian Sheehan (19:15):
So you talked about how important it is to
seamlessly integrate theinteraction between online and
offline, so it feels seamless.
Is there any retailer that youpoint to today that's doing a
particularly good job of that,or is it a micro moment that
you've seen somewhere that is agreat example of that?
Melissa Gonzalez (19:35):
Yeah, I think that there's in varying degrees.
You know, I always bring upNike as like a best in class and
I think you know there's aspectrum of why things position
brands to be more successful atit.
I think for Nike, because theyhave such an active in app
community already, a digitallyintegrated community interacting
(19:55):
with them as a brand, itbecomes more seamless to then
bridge that into the store youknow.
With them as a brand, itbecomes more seamless to then
bridge that into the store youknow.
And so for that it's like ifyou go to the house of
innovation, you know you couldput the items you want in your
app and then go pick it up.
There's a level ofpersonalization and so in those
environments with that brand,it's intuitive behavior.
And then I think that there'sothers where you're seeing it in
(20:16):
pieces.
I've been watching you know like, for example, with a with know
like, for example, with a CraveRetail.
They've done it with brandslike a Victoria's Secret, and
then they're also pilotingsomething now with American
Eagle, and so I also think it'slike the opportunity they're
going to have with outfitting isgoing to be different with an
apparel brand right than with anintimates brand, for example,
(20:37):
and so that's like varyingdegrees of successful
integration, I think, justbecause of what the customer is
looking for in thoseenvironments.
I feel like when it comes tothings like AR and VR, we
probably have longer ways to go,but I think with endless aisle
or integrated fitting rooms andthings like that, I think we've
(20:58):
started to see more and moresuccess in that happening.
Brian Sheehan (21:01):
You work with a lot of fast growing brands and
what advice do you give to themwhen you're talking about, you
know, the creation of theirphysical environment?
How do you, how do you help,guide them to get the most out
of a physical store today?
Melissa Gonzalez (21:16):
Mm.
Hmm, yeah, we always ask whatdo we consider success?
For sure, and we also do a deepdive into what are the you know
, what is the information?
Because a lot of them that arecoming to us to go into physical
, they've been digital.
So we're benefiting from dataand we have deep dive
conversations.
How are people discovering you?
You know what are the productsthey're going to first, what is
the path that we're seeing themget to Like?
(21:37):
How are they adding those plusones into the cart we're seeing
them get to like?
How are they adding those plusones into the cart?
How do we think, whatinformation do you think or
experience that you cannotmanifest in digital platforms
that we want to pull forward inphysical retail?
And so it's really that study inthe beginning and then, from an
advisory standpoint, it'soverlaying it with our library
(21:57):
of insights or we'll commissioncustomized research to dive
deeper on overarching trends.
So, for example, there's a lotof overarching trends out there,
right, we live in a digital,connected world and people are
wanting community and wellbeingand there's a lot of themes.
But then we'll take a deeperdive of OK, well, what does that
(22:18):
mean for the opportunities ofhow it manifests in physical
environments.
When we say we want to evoke asense of community, ok, well,
what kind of community?
What does your community careabout?
How do they want to engage withthat community?
Deeper levels of insights andinformation so that we can pull
(22:40):
those overarching themes forwardin a way that feels unique and
special and, again, authentic tothe brand and speaks to the
customer in the way in which youknow they want to engage.
So it's a pretty deep dive inthe beginning and all of that
then would guide how we thinkthrough the customer journey and
(23:01):
all those breadcrumbs and thespeed bumps and those moments of
discovery and engagement.
Brian Sheehan (23:06):
I'm thinking about a brand like Supreme that
built a skate park inside theirstore.
Yeah, and that would be anexample of how they decided they
wanted to engage with theircommunity.
Melissa Gonzalez (23:18):
Yeah, yeah, I was just in Shanghai at the end
of last year because we have anoffice in Shanghai and I went to
the Supreme store in Shanghaiand so it was cool to see it
there too.
But, yeah, it's okay.
What is, when we think ofstreetwear and style and this
community, and what are thoseactivities that make sense that
will speak to the audience, youknow.
So for that one, yeah, I thinkthat's a great example.
(23:40):
I think they've been reallysuccessful over the years of
thinking about that, becauseit's like that brand, they have
an opportunity to tap into bothculture and subculture, which is
even deeper, I think, and Ithink, on average, like a lot of
the footwear brands have hadthat too.
You know, it's like this oneindustry and it's evolved as a
(24:01):
secondary market because kind ofevolved.
But you know, those are thekinds of brands where I know,
when we've done pop ups, forexample, in past years with Puma
and others, we could put thatlocation almost anywhere and
that audience will find youbecause it has such a deep
rooting in, like, not justculture but subculture around it
(24:22):
and I think that's, you know,that's an even deeper
opportunity to tap into.
Brian Sheehan (24:26):
It's kind of the definition of how you create a
destination.
Melissa Gonzalez (24:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
Brian Sheehan (24:32):
I'm curious.
So you talk about at the outsetof the conversation, with the
brand it's, you know, with thebrand it's, you know, how do we
define success?
So once you've built thephysical retail store, it's open
and it's operating.
Sure.
Can you talk about some of themetrics that you're looking for
that help you measure howsuccessful you were in achieving
(24:55):
you know those goals?
Melissa Gonzalez (24:57):
Yeah, and this is why what do we consider
success?
Conversation at the beginningis critical because it's not
always going to be the sameanswer.
There's plenty of brands wherethe store they recognize is for
marketing, and so it's about howmany new customers did we gain?
How much more is the customeralready had spending with us?
How much more often are theyvisiting us now?
(25:17):
Did we unlock a different levelof fandom?
Are we selling SKUs that wedidn't move before?
So there's that aspect of it isunderstanding what is the
purpose of it.
If it's an individual store,sometimes it's also a network
effect, like, if you look atcompanies like Dick's Sporting
Goods, they have outlet stores,they have main stores, they have
now like house of sports stores, right, and they all kind of
(25:39):
serve different purposes.
They have now like house ofsports stores, right, and they
all kind of serve differentpurposes.
But the average customer whointersects and experiences them
across those different formatsversus just one, is spending
more, is visiting the brand moreoften, is more loyal, right.
So it's really understandingagain, like either your
standalone store or yourplaybook of formats, what does
(26:01):
this format mean for the otherformats?
What does it mean holistically?
And so there's a lot of answers,but I think, as we continue to
investigate what is the point ofthe store and understanding
it's a touch point and acontinuum of touch points in the
relationship with the customerand the brand, then you're
studying it a little bitdifferently.
You're appreciating, you know,the halo effect.
(26:23):
You're studying again, like Isaid, is it a new customer?
That's number one.
If it's an existing customer,are they spending more?
Are they returning productsless frequently?
Are they coming back to yourbrand more often?
Are they adding more productsyou know to the cart than they
would have in the past?
Are they becoming advocates foryour brand?
(26:43):
So there's a lot of differentthings you could measure, but
really setting that up up front,I think, is critical.
To tie it to the question ofwhat do we consider success.
Brian Sheehan (26:54):
It kind of brings me back to the question that
you already touched on a littlebit.
So how you see the future ofbrick and mortar stores evolving
really has to be answered by abrand and within the subcategory
of the type of retail storethat they want to operate.
And you're going to havedifferent stores over time,
(27:16):
maybe, depending on the size ofyour brand.
Maybe the first, maybe aSupreme, for example, small shop
operator, maybe they don't haveas many types of stores, or do
you think to be successful today, you really need to think about
operating different kinds ofstores in order to be able to
engage customers in differentways?
(27:37):
It's not an either or.
Melissa Gonzalez (27:38):
I think it's not a one size fits all answer,
because I think for some brandstheir strategy might be we're
only going to have eight to 10stores in key cities and that's
our playbook, and then we'regoing to have different kinds of
marketing strategies and others, and that might be kind of what
their plan is today.
You need some sort ofconsistency when you want to
(28:00):
scale, because having everysingle one completely
differentiated becomes expensivebecause you don't get any
economy as a scale right andbuilding it out and how you
operate it and stuff.
So you probably need to be at acertain scale when you have a
robust playbook, like theexample I mentioned with Dick's
or the way Nordstrom has with,like, their full line stores,
(28:20):
their rack stores and theirlocal Right.
But either way, I think there'san opportunity.
So, say you, you only going tohave eight to 10 permanent
stores.
Maybe you're complementing thatwith a mobile retail strategy
or pop up strategy or shop andshop strategy, you know, and
then understanding how that allcomplements each other.
Brian Sheehan (28:41):
Well, this is.
This is really incredible.
Melissa, I noticed that yourecently joined forces with
Collier's Engineering and Design, which sounds like an exciting
development.
Can you talk about thispartnership a little bit and
what to expect?
Melissa Gonzalez (28:57):
Sure, it's very early stages, so we
announced it at the end of lastyear.
But you know, I think everytransition Linus to MG2, mg2 to
now partnering with Collier'sEngineering and Design the
spirit of it is really justcontinuing to expand our promise
to our clients and being ableto expand our geographic
(29:17):
footprint, being able to expandour network of expertise.
And you know, I think there's alot of different elements of
design where I said it's a lotof the interiors, but as an
organization we also have groundup.
We also have different sorts ofenvironments outside of just
retail.
So it's being able to partnerwith landscape designers and
(29:39):
engineering and MEP and stuffthat we didn't have in-house
before.
So it's going to be exciting tosee how we continue to bring
all of that together.
Brian Sheehan (29:48):
Well, melissa, it was great speaking with you
today.
Thank you for joining me onRetail Intel.
Yeah, be sure to check out MG2at MG2.com and on Instagram at
MG to underscore design.
Whether you're an aspiring realestate mogul, a seasoned pro or
simply curious about the placeswhere we shop, dine, play and
(30:08):
work, this podcast is your allaccess pass to the world of
commercial real estate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail Intelpodcast, send a message to
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutthe business of retail and what
makes a successful store, keeptuning in to Retail Intel and
(30:32):
please subscribe, follow, likeand repost.
Talk to you next time.
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