September 26, 2025 • 41 mins
Todd Gailor's journey from corporate banker to entertainment entrepreneur offers a masterclass in seizing opportunities others miss. After 20 years in commercial lending, a pandemic-induced moment of reflection led him to acquire Edder's Custom Golf Center, a rundown but beloved Cincinnati institution dating back to 1951.
What makes The Acres special goes beyond golf balls and putters. Gailor recognized that creating spaces where families disconnect from technology and reconnect with each other fills a crucial need in our digital age. "The kids and parents are playing miniature golf together," he explains. "There's this incredible family dynamic of unplugged." This philosophy guides every aspect of the business – from the four core revenue centers (driving range, miniature golf, restaurant, and bar) to seasonal innovations like their popular lighted forest walk.
Perhaps most remarkable is The Acres' relationship with Mill Creek, once North America's most endangered urban waterway. Rather than hiding this natural feature behind invasive honeysuckle, Gailor partnered with environmental organizations to showcase the creek's remarkable recovery. Today, visitors spot bald eagles, herons, and turtles along its banks – a stunning environmental success story integrated seamlessly into an entertainment business.
For entrepreneurs, Gailor's candid insights about delegation challenges, trusted business relationships, and community-building offer valuable lessons. His approach to merchandising – focusing on creating unique branded items rather than competing with big-box retailers – demonstrates strategic thinking in a competitive landscape. Whether you're a retail investor, aspiring business owner, or simply curious about innovative entertainment concepts, this conversation reveals how passion, vision, and community focus can transform a traditional business into something extraordinary.
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Episode Transcript
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Todd Gailor (00:04):
The kids and the parents are playing miniature
golf, so there's this incrediblefamily dynamic of unplugged.
I think that's a beautifulthing, that the ability to turn
your phone off, get away fromsomething and go have some
family time is what this place,I guess, is about.
It's, I think, for me and mykids, whether we do something
outside of here.
(00:24):
We're here a lot, but theability to put our phones down
and go do something fun is, Ithink, a big part of our success
.
Brian Sheehan (00:34):
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast dedicated to
shining a spotlight on the mostinnovative and rapidly growing
brands in the retail sector.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to guide you
through the dynamic world ofcommercial real estate, where we
explore the latest trends,groundbreaking concepts and the
stories behind today's mostsuccessful retail businesses.
(00:56):
Today, I'm excited to welcome ,co-founder of the Acres, a
golf-focused entertainmentconcept based in Cincinnati,
ohio.
The Acres is redefining howpeople experience golf, not just
through play but through afull-service food and beverage
program, and it makes it adestination for both golfers and
(01:18):
non-golfers alike.
Todd's vision blends sport,hospitality and community in a
way that's innovative andinviting.
I'm looking forward to learningmore about his journey and the
story behind the Acres.
Todd, thanks for joining us onthe podcast.
I'd love to start with yourbackground.
(01:39):
What led you to launch theAcres?
What was your professionalbackground kind of prior to
founding this really interestingbusiness?
Todd Gailor (01:49):
Sure, my background you know.
I grew up here in Cincinnati,finished high school, really,
here in Cincinnati, but I'm aMidwesterner at heart Went away
to college, moved back hereafter college and sort of
teetered around in the corporateworld, both for profit and not
for profit.
I kind of took teetered aroundin the corporate world, both
for-profit and not-for-profit.
I kind of took a cup of coffeein the not-for-profit world
Cincinnati Nature Center and theCincinnati Art Museum and
(02:15):
somehow, lo and behold, ended upin the equipment financing
industry for commercial banksand worked for a number of local
commercial banks, kind of inthat commercial banking industry
.
So I was Provident Bank,natcity, pnc, which was really
all kind of the same job, endedup at a Missouri-based bank that
(02:36):
had a loan production officehere in Cincinnati called
Commerce Bank, which is kind ofan old old world, family run but
publicly traded bank, did thatfor nine or 10 years.
Come 2017, I joined the truckand trailer financing business
at Wells Fargo, which ultimatelyled us into COVID and I think,
(02:59):
as with maybe a lot of people,covid certainly had people
reflecting on life, jobs, family, all sorts of things, because
you had more time to think and Ithink at that point you know I
was 15, 20 years into acommercial banking career,
(03:20):
didn't love.
It Felt like here I am, I'm 47years old.
Is this really what I'm goingto do for the next 15 or 20
years until I retire?
And it just kind of woke me upto what else can I do with my
life?
I think I'm a well-roundedindividual.
I like sales, I like people, Ilike golf.
(03:43):
How do I marry those thingsinto a career?
I took a lunch break whileworking for Wells Fargo.
I was working from home.
So it was just this.
You know, we weren't reallytraveling to go see clients, we
were.
I mean, I was going from mybedroom to my office in my house
and sort of just had all theseideas what else can I do?
(04:06):
And I was like I'm going to go,hit a bucket of balls and drove
down to the old Edders CustomGolf Center on Redding Road in
the village of Evendale, whichis really an iconic place in and
of itself.
It's been around since 1951.
But on that drive was sort ofthis epiphany moment of maybe I
(04:28):
should see if he's willing tosell this old driving range.
And I went down here and sortof I don't know why I was
nervous, but I had this likenervousness of walking into the
pro shop here at Edders and toask him.
Him like hey, would you, areyou willing to sell this place
or are you, are you willing totalk about?
And it was like just the righttime, right place, right time
(04:51):
for him.
He didn't really want to talkabout it at the moment, and so
he he said let's go getbreakfast next week.
And so we went to get breakfastand that sort of started the
ball rolling to an acquisition.
And it was, he said at thattime when we went out to
breakfast, he's like, here's thedeal.
I'm under contract with adevelopment company in
Cincinnati to sell it.
(05:13):
And that meant selling it,tearing the place down, and one
of the local developers who Idon't know exactly who it was,
but build the suit development,they were doing all sorts of
things, but he said it.
It was like it was fallingthrough.
It was during COVID.
He was on some sort of anevergreen every 90 days.
(05:33):
It's like, hey, if we don'tclose, we're going to give you a
little bit of money.
So that was September of 2020.
And in December of 2020, hecalled me.
We had had all these ongoingconversations because I was kind
of hot to trot to get a deal.
And he, in December 2020, hesaid hey, listen, I'm pulling
(05:55):
the plug on this developmentdeal because it just is taking
too long and he's 68 years old,he wants a check and he wants to
retire.
He didn't want to have to wait,keep waiting and waiting.
And so he said I'm willing tosell it to you.
Here's my price.
And so at that moment, decemberof 2020, it just sort of like
exploded my brain of like, oh mygosh, this is a potential real
(06:17):
deal and like a life changingmoment for me.
How can I get this deal done?
And so I called as many peopleas I could who either knew about
this place, knew about smallbusiness, knew about starting a
business I mean, I have a note,still have the notes app on my
phone, just my old iPhone notesapp and I wrote down every
(06:40):
person that I called, what theytalked about the advice yes,
this is a great idea.
No, I think you're crazy.
And I took all of that in.
But I really believed in theconcept and I started writing a
business plan about what thisplace could be.
And I knew kind of marryinggolf and this place had a mini
(07:03):
golf course course, so it hadtoo many golf courses that were
largely in disrepair, largelyunutilized, but it had a loyal
client base of golfers who wouldjust come down here to hit golf
balls.
And I just fully believed inkind of marrying the old school
driving range concept, the minigolf, and then really borrowing,
(07:27):
I think, from ideas that aresuccessful.
Right, a lot of ideas, a lot ofmusic is really just borrowed
rhythms and melodies of otherplaces that are successful.
And so I say the success ofTopgolf, the success of kind of
these open brewery concepts,which I admire.
I admire 50 West and Ireferenced 50 West in my
(07:50):
business plan.
I admire the Slatterys and BobSlatterys.
He's an entrepreneur, he's ahardcore entrepreneur, he works
very hard and they've created aconcept that people subscribe to
Madtree Brewing, certainlysimilar.
I'm not a Topgolf guy, I don'tthink golf purists are top golf
people, but top golf, you can'targue with the success that they
(08:10):
had.
And so I think what people foundwas that you know, hitting a
golf ball is fun and top golfkind of brought that to a much
wider audience.
Obviously, the topolf conceptis kind of built around this
reward system Every time you hita ball, you get points or you
get something.
And so I sort of took all ofthose ideas and said, okay, I
(08:35):
think we can do something likethis at this golf driving range,
mini golf facility, obviouslywith adding the restaurant and
bar.
So that's really how I kind ofbuilt the business plan.
I took ideas, I referencedthose ideas of the 50 West and
the mad trees and the top golfsand sort of amalgamated them
(08:56):
into my own little concept andtried to pitch it to people and
said hey, this is the idea thatI want to build.
What do you think of it?
And I got a lot of feedback anda lot of people said no.
But I'm a sales guy at heart.
So my goal was to find peoplethat would say yes, because I
(09:16):
really believed in it.
And I think the best advicethat I got from someone along
the way who's a localentrepreneur here in Cincinnati,
he owns restaurants and bars,he's a development guy he said
whatever you do, just love it.
If you love the thing thatyou're doing, it will show and
it will be successful.
And I think that's like supersimple advice and it could go
(09:40):
with any career, right, I think,if you really love what you do
and you love the place, peoplewill see it, people will feel it
, and so, yeah, that's kind ofthe long short story of how I
ultimately got this property.
Brian Sheehan (09:56):
That's incredible .
What a journey that you've beenon to build this or renovate,
remodel, bring to new life, youknow, this cultural kind of an
institution.
I mean, I can remember goingthere as a kid, so I love what
you've done with it.
I guess I'm curious a couple ofthings how many people said no
(10:20):
to the idea and what was sort ofthe consensus you know, maybe
behind the nose of people whodidn't think maybe this was, you
know, a concept with legs andI'm really kind of leading
towards Eatertainment, such abig trend right now.
And you, you know, talked aboutTopgolf and some of the other
(10:42):
places in Cincinnati, Ohio,where you can go have that
experience.
But I'm curious, kind of like,why Eatertainment is doing so
well.
But it's sort of a two partquestion there, I guess.
Todd Gailor (10:54):
Yeah, I think it's a great question and I think the
no's were really based, I think, on people that had been coming
here, based, I think, on peoplethat had been coming here.
Golfer friends of mine will usethose examples of, like man,
that place is so rundown thatit's going to cost a lot of
money to renovate it.
And I said, yeah, you'reprobably right, it's a pretty
(11:18):
rundown property.
But I guess real estate peopleknow location is super important
.
So I always thought, okay thenose, I'm balancing out these
nose with the like to me againspinning it into okay the nose,
they're saying it's really rundown.
(11:38):
My yes to that is greatlocation, great community.
That is great location, greatcommunity.
The village of Evendale is, youknow, a wildly successful, tiny
little place because they haveGE Aerospace as corporate
headquarters, formica ascorporate headquarters, growing
biotech companies as corporateheadquarters, and so I think,
(12:01):
you know, close to Kenwood,close to Montgomery, close to
Blue Ash, close enough to IndianHill, close enough to Madeira,
so you've got all thesecommunities.
So location's important.
It's on a main road.
So I sort of balanced out okay,the no's are like, yeah, it's
run down, but I believe that ifI put the money in I'd bring
people here.
The other really is that therewas infrastructure here that
(12:24):
existed, that was convertible,and so there were buildings on
the property.
There were two miniature golfcourses here that didn't need a
ton of work to get them up andrunning, to provide
entertainment space, and I love.
It's in a little valley.
The Mill Creek runs throughhere, so you have incredible
(12:45):
nature.
I'm a bird nerd at heart so Ilove the outdoors, I love birds
and it's got this like there'snature here, so it's like man.
How do you take all of thesethings?
It's a beautiful piece ofproperty.
Largely.
It wasn't beautiful when wetook over, but it had all the
guts for it to be beautiful.
(13:06):
And so you know the no's.
The other no's were restaurantpeople, and this is during COVID
, so we really hadn't felt.
The restaurant industrycertainly has changed, probably
for the worse, over the lastfour or five years.
It's a very difficult industryand so those are kind of the
(13:27):
other no's like ah, therestaurant business is so hard,
true, but this is not afreestanding restaurant.
My belief was that thecommunity of this place could be
built around the restaurant.
I'm not a freestandingrestaurant so I'm not fully
reliant on restaurant and barI'm reliant on, and this is a
(13:48):
big part of the business planbuilding a community around a
restaurant and bar, orentertainment as you would call
it, which I think are.
(14:14):
You know, these are businessesthat I don't have to compete
with Amazon I'm really competingwith.
You know, amazon has changedthe whole landscape of many,
many things.
So what are industries that?
You know?
There certainly is competitionfor entertainment, but I'm
marrying something that Ibelieve in.
Golf is growing in popularity,and so I think I thought the
(14:35):
concept was there, and I thinkone of the things that I'm most
proud of, and people that comehere also notice, is that when
families come here, kids largelyare not on their phones, so
people are playing games.
You can't duplicate thatanywhere and so you know they
(14:57):
come down here, they have afamily.
Dad or mom might have a beer ora seltzer or a cocktail.
The kids and the parents areplaying miniature golf.
So there's this incrediblefamily dynamic of unplugged, and
so I think that's a beautifulthing that is super important in
society today that you areunplugging from your phones.
(15:19):
I mean, here we are ontechnology, here we're
connecting in this incrediblespace, but the ability to turn
your phone off, get away fromsomething and go have some
family time is what this place,I guess, is about.
It's, I think, for me and mykids, whether we do something
outside of here.
We're here a lot, but theability to put our phones down
(15:42):
and go do something fun is, uh,I think, a big part of our
success.
Brian Sheehan (15:46):
Absolutely, and I think it answers, you know,
part of that question, which iswhy is an entertainment concept
successful?
In part, it's due to the factthat this is a place you can go
and you don't have to be pluggedin to a device.
You can disconnect Totally.
And, yeah, one thing I probablytook for granted was the, I
(16:09):
guess, the natural beauty andsplendor of the location that
you're at, something I neverfully appreciated until you, you
know, made a point to kind ofopen up and direct people to the
Mill Creek, which is, you know,a really amazing asset to have.
Todd Gailor (16:25):
Absolutely is, and it's like that kind of leads
into one of the discussionpoints that I had.
So here I talked to Steve inDecember of 2020, and he's
agreed to sell the property tome.
Really, the environmentalsteward of the Mill Creek and
(16:53):
they were a handful of peopleover the last 25 or 30 years
have been instrumental incleaning up the Mill Creek.
So they alarm businesses hey,you're dumping toxic chemicals
into the creek and they wouldalert the EPA.
And so I think a lot of thesuccess or the transformation of
the Mill Creek was handled by anumber of people who believed
(17:15):
that the Mill Creek should becleaned up.
And so I called them, had manyconversations, asked them.
I mean because if you grew upin Cincinnati, the Mill Creek
was this toxic cesspool youdon't get near it, you don't put
businesses on it Certainly afamily entertainment business
because it's dirty and it'sgross.
And so I did the research.
I called the Mill CreekAlliance.
(17:35):
They said, hey, listen, theMill Creek in certain sections
is cleaner than the little MiamiRiver, which is a national
historic river.
And I believed in kind of whatthey were doing with the cleanup
of the creek, this propertywhich you know, when I was
starting to talk to Steve inDecember of 2020 and on into
2021, you couldn't even see theMill Creek because there was a
(17:56):
30 foot section of honeysuckleso you couldn't even access it.
So I came down here one day andsort of dug my way through the
honeysuckle and looked at thecreek.
I was like, oh my gosh, this islike it's beautiful, it's a
beautiful section of creek, andI just believed, man, okay, so
(18:17):
they're cleaning it up.
There's like people that careabout it, they're taking people
on kayak trips on the Mill Creek, and so it's not the Little
Miami River.
It's not as big, so it's alittle bit harder to kayak or
canoe it.
But I just viewed it as thisincredible natural resource that
could be part of the propertyinstead of hidden from the
property.
And so we cleaned out a lot ofthe honeysuckle after we took
(18:37):
over and have created.
You know, we and I invite peopleto come down to see it.
I mean, if you're, if you're atthe restaurant and bar or the
patio or you're playing golf,you don't, you don't you may not
even walk down there to see it,and so I try to get as many
people down there.
I'm like, look at this.
This is like little waterfall.
Here there's we've seen baldeagles, there's turtles, there's
(19:00):
smallmouth bass, large mouthbass, incredible wildlife and
that didn't exist 25 years ago.
I mean, the Mill Creek was themost endangered urban stream in
North America.
It was very dirty, it did nothave a lot of life and I say
life, beavers and muskrats andbald eagles and herons and all
(19:20):
these things, and that has allstarted to come back.
And we're highlighting that andI think it's just such an
important piece to ourdevelopment and growth over the
next five years is gettingpeople connected back to the
Mill Creek, whether it's a 60minute canoe trip, I'm not
(19:47):
saying a big long, all day giantmultinational companies that do
business right here in Evendale, but you're, you're surrounded,
kind of, in this littleminiature oasis, and so
certainly a big part of what Ibelieved in and I don't even
think we've touched, scratchedthe surface of what we can make
of the Mill Creek.
Brian Sheehan (20:08):
So I don't know if I answered that question
right, but you did now and Imean I think you're absolutely
right, there's so much therethat's untapped potential.
And I think it speaks a littlebit to kind of the next question
, which is, you know, if youcould talk about some of the
challenges of operating a hybrid, some of the challenges of
(20:33):
operating a hybrid, you know,retail restaurant entertainment
concept like this.
I think one of the takeawaysfor me would be you know, really
understand and take a look atkind of what you have on site or
within the bounds of yourbusiness to make sure you're
maximizing the full potential ofkind of everything you can do,
like you've done with the MillCreek.
There you're starting to dowith the Mill Creek, but if you
(20:55):
could talk about what some ofthe other challenges are kind of
operating a hybrid businessconcept like this and how you
overcame them.
Todd Gailor (21:04):
Yeah, I think, as a , I mean I'm a, I was a business
guy, I was a sales guy, but Icertainly wasn't a an operations
guy and and so I think this isto me a hybrid is this is a
sales business to a degree orit's a customer relations
business, and I'm good at thecustomer relations side, and so
(21:29):
it's welcoming people to theproperty, thanking them for
coming, making sure that I'mvisible as a face to the whole
thing.
I mean I don't I'm the acres iscertainly much bigger than me,
but I think any small businessthat I go to, that you go to,
you know, when you see the owneror an owner there in the weeds
(21:52):
doing the things, I think itjust like gives you an
appreciation for that business.
And I think I'm good at therelation side and good at being
here and being present, and I'vecommitted a to a.
I mean this is a seven day aweek job from April until really
the end of December.
A.
I mean this is a seven day aweek job from April until really
(22:13):
the end of December.
And I think the things that arethe most challenging for me are
the restaurant and bar, andrestaurant and bar business is
is very hands-on.
It's low margin business?
Um, it is.
It is a.
It's a very tough business torun and I would say a lot of my
time is spent helping therestaurant and bar, staffing the
(22:33):
restaurant and bar, even thoughit's probably on the smaller
side of the profitability of thebusiness, but it's such a key
component to the overallcommunity we're building.
So I think a business like thisjust is hands-on.
I mean, there really isn't away to avoid the restaurant and
(22:56):
bar business, the miniature golfbusiness.
This is a customer business andso you just have to be here and
you have to feel it and youhave to see it and you have to
adapt.
I would love for it to be aproactive business and I'm
trying to get there.
I've had all of thesereflections over the past number
of months of how do we get moreproactive towards program
(23:20):
development, towards creating acalendar of events, towards me
being less involved in fixingthings and me being more
involved in planning and visionand strategy, and that's what I
want to do.
But I also know that I have toreally kind of be in the weeds
(23:42):
still until we're you know thisis we're still only three years
from the time that we opened therestaurant, which was August of
22.
And so we're getting there andI think that's my goal is.
The challenge is the restaurantand bar.
It requires a lot of people, itrequires a lot of labor.
You know, restaurant barbusiness is very tough.
(24:02):
The margins aren't very good,but how do we create programs
and program development thatreally feed and help grow this
property?
I think I'm learning and I'm notreally an operations guy, I'm a
bigger picture guy and I'mreally not a detailed guy.
So I think anyone here, both mybusiness partners, investors
(24:25):
and the people that work herewould probably say the same
thing.
I mean, I'm pretty spacey, I'mpretty ATD and I try my best to
listen, and I'm frequently on myphone and responding to someone
and someone's talking in my ear.
I'm like I'm listening, like Itold you that five minutes ago.
I'm like, ok, I heard it, canyou tell me again?
So I'm getting better?
(24:47):
I promise, tell me again, soI'm getting better, I promise.
Brian Sheehan (24:50):
Todd, what advice would you give to yourself if
you could go back three years orfive years?
You know when you were firststarting to put this together.
What lessons do you feel likeyou've learned?
That you know would translateto somebody that's interested in
opening their own entertainmentconcept.
Todd Gailor (25:09):
I don't believe.
I mean, I think it's like yougo through this iteration.
I met a couple here six monthsago who were going to try to
start some sort of almost likenot youth hostel, but like some
sort of a community space aroundhotel, like a mini hotel in
(25:29):
northern Kentucky, and they wereasking me, and I think I said
pick good business partners,have a good operating agreement.
From a legal standpoint, thatwas advice that one of my
business partners, who's nolonger here, gave me.
It was just like, hey, you havean operating agreement not to
protect yourself from failure,you have an operating agreement
(25:53):
to operate for success.
And so you know it's like youthink of it as like a defense
mechanism, but really you shouldthink of it as, hey, this is
going to be successful, weshould have an operating
agreement that is pointing ourway towards success, which is
like a positive spin on.
That is pointing our waytowards success, which is like a
positive spin on, I guess, thelegal world.
I have great business partners,all with different skill sets,
(26:16):
and I think having the abilityto pick business partners that
you like, that hopefully leaveyou alone.
You know I'm here 80 to 100hours a week, or at least
plugged into the business atthat much, and so I think
largely investors and peoplehave left me to.
(26:37):
They trust me to do the workthat I'm supposed to be doing.
I think the hardest part, for me, the most difficult thing, is
delegating, and I think I'mlearning how to delegate, but
it's not my strong suit.
I feel like I'm better doing itthan I am trying to train
someone, because it takes longerfor me to train someone to do
it than for me to just do itmyself.
(26:58):
And I've heard that from many,many business owners.
There are plenty of businessowners here who live in the
village of Evendale who havebeen loose guides for me.
They're not formal, formaladvisors, but they'll come down
and have a beer and ask me howthings are going hey, how can I
help you?
And I've largely told them likeI think the hardest part for me
(27:19):
is to delegate.
And they all said the samething.
In the first three or four orfive years of starting a
business or owning a business,they said the same thing.
They said you'll learn how todelegate, but they understand
the need to want to do ityourself, and so I think that's
the hardest part is justlearning how to find the right
(27:41):
people who you can delegate toand trusting them to do the work
and staying out of their way.
I don't want to manage people.
I listened to one of your otherpodcasts and I don't remember
who it was.
I listened to one of your otherpodcasts and I don't remember
who it was.
I think it might've been Joshfrom Mizunte, but he said the
same thing.
He's like I want somethingrelated to leading and not
(28:01):
managing, and I think I guess Ilead by example.
I clean bathrooms, I pick uptrash.
I'm constantly around theproperty doing things that I
believe I should be doing, but Icertainly don't want to manage
people.
I want to find people who see Ican probably tell and help, but
(28:21):
my goal is to find people whocan lead themselves.
I'll knock down walls to helpyou do the job that you need to
do, but I don't want to come inand have the 30 minute
management.
Hey, what did you do this week?
And you know the micromanagingstuff, because I believe you
know I've got an amazing chefright now and I'd be remiss if I
didn't mention him.
(28:42):
He's done amazing work in thepast year and he manages himself
.
He's done this for 20 years.
I don't need to get in his way.
I can help him knock thingsdown, try to prevent things that
are muddling up his world,which I try to do.
I'm sure I've stumbled alongthe way, but he's a great chef,
(29:05):
has made great food and I stayout of his way.
I don't need to manage him.
He knows what he's doing.
He's been in the restaurantbusiness for 20 years.
So back to the question is, Ithink, how do you lead and how
do you delegate?
Brian Sheehan (29:20):
The hardest certainly the hardest part for
me, and I'm learning- it soundslike we could do kind of an
entire episode on that justaspect alone of owning and
operating a business.
There's a few other things I'mhoping we can get through.
One talk about kind of thedesign of the entire experience.
(29:41):
So it sounds like from theoutset you knew you wanted to
have a bar and a restaurant onsite, but I guess talk about how
the different elements kind ofcame together there at the Acres
.
Todd Gailor (29:52):
Yeah, I think it was always designed.
I mean, I, I here.
I bought an old driving range,been here since 1951.
It had a miniature golf course.
That was an iconic place.
It was a putt putt at one point.
It was always built aroundrestaurant, bar, driving range,
miniature golf.
(30:13):
We've since added this lightedforest concept, which is
certainly not new.
The Cincinnati Zoo does theirFestival of Lights and other
companies around town ornonprofits are creating lighted
forest walks to bring people totheir facility during the
tougher months and for us Ithink adding the lighted forest
(30:35):
was an important piece toNovember and December we die.
Once the time changes, thebusiness sort of falls off the
cliff and so I think that's likethe fifth piece of the business
for us.
It's restaurant, bar, drivingrange, miniature golf.
Lighted forest is like thefifth revenue piece and last
year was the first year.
(30:55):
It was a wild success and ourgoal is to create it into really
an art and light festival.
So we commission local artiststo come down here trying to take
our spin, to do it a little bitdifferently than maybe some
other companies and ornonprofits in town.
So I think it was always builtaround the concept of those four
things.
We added a fifth.
(31:16):
Can we add a sixth or a seventh?
Those are all sort of in theworks that may get released next
year.
There are big surprises to theworld.
One of those surprises is apop-up drive-in movie theater on
the driving range, which issomething new and something that
we're going to try, and it'susing the space.
(31:36):
I mean, it's like, okay, youhave this big, giant driving
range out there, how do you useit?
It's like, okay, it's just adriving range, it's supposed to
receive golf balls, but arethere other things that we can
do on that space?
And so that's kind of where thedrive-in or music festival or
things like that came about.
So we're still a four-piecebusiness, really, four revenue
(31:58):
centers, the fifth kind of thelighted forest.
But how do you continue to addto this entertainment concept
while still being core to thisis a golf place and and I don't
want to alienate the drivingrange base, because that is a
big part of who we are but howcan we expand?
That, I think is, are thequestions that us myself and I'm
(32:21):
not the only owner, I am themajority owner, but I have
investors and so making surethat we are have a keen eye
towards profitability.
This is a for-profit businessand shareholder return largely
increasing the value of thisasset that we have.
But mindful to my belief, ifyou build a community around
(32:45):
this place that everything elsekind of falls into place.
Brian Sheehan (32:49):
One that's really fascinating about the I'm going
to call it in the sense of agolf driving range or drive-in
movie theater, and how do youmaximize the revenue that you
can generate from that?
I'm curious the differentmetrics that you might use for a
business like this, because youhave the four different revenue
centers and obviously you needto be focused on profitability.
(33:13):
But I'm curious, are therecertain metrics that you're
looking at, like how many youknow buckets of balls did we
sell?
Are you offering you know golflessons, swing analysis,
technology, integration at thedriving range, many golf rounds
played?
And then also to talk about howimportant is the retail side of
the business, because you guyshave a cool and I would say,
(33:35):
what growing merchandisingprogram there.
Todd Gailor (33:38):
Yeah, so I'm actually wearing the.
So our branding company isTommy Sheehan, who runs a
company called Tommy Inc.
He's been a kind of longtimebranding guy in town.
We really believe in the Acresbrand and building a brand
around it.
Currently we are demoing outthe old pro shop, which used to
be a club repair facility, andthat becomes kind of our hybrid
(34:03):
retail shop.
We've almost not abandoned theretail piece, but we've been
careful about making sure thatwhen we do retail we are aware
of creating a retail conceptthat is unique merchandise.
And so the golf club business,the golf retail business, is
(34:23):
hyper competitive.
The margins are pretty bad, andso I believe in the concept
more of like how do you createunique retail merchandise that
you can't buy on Amazon, thatsomeone isn't going to say, oh
yeah, well, I found that at golfgalaxy, for you know $15 and
you're selling it for $25.
And so the ability?
(34:44):
Not, you know, I don't want tocompete in that business.
I want to find, um, our ownlittle niche, and so I think we
can create a merchandising linearound the acres that is super
unique, that is small.
I don't want to be a bigretailer.
I think retail is tough.
It's got to be staffed.
But I think we can createsomething that's unique.
(35:04):
And I look at the golf industryas a whole.
There are all of these craftmicro brands.
It's sort of like the breweryindustry craft beer.
It's like I know the guy thatbrews that and they named it
after his cousin who's you know.
It's like all that stuff is allthe rage and I think the golf
industry head covers andclothing lines have exploded and
(35:29):
there's a ton of opportunity inthat space.
It was written in the businessplan that we could create a
merchandising line around thatspace.
It was written in the businessplan that we could create a
merchandising line around theacres and we've got the acres
and the A flag and a handful ofother things.
I don't know that business wellenough, but I really believe
that that can be a reallysuccessful retail side of our
business.
And so the pro shop is nowgutted.
(35:52):
We are starting to work with anarchitect to develop something
that's a usable space, not fullyretail, but enough retail
that's convertible.
So it's like a hangout space,slash retail, slash.
You know, it's like you got tolike adapt to all of these
things instead of it just beinga retail shop because a retail
(36:12):
shop.
You got to staff, and I don'tnecessarily want to staff it 12
hours a day, absolutely.
That's a big cost, right.
So but I do think I believe inthe retail side, and retail
could be grips, golf grips.
It could be merchandise, but ithas to be merchandise.
That's ours, as opposed toStrixon or Titleist or something
(36:37):
else.
Not that I would abandon those,but I just think it's too
hyper-competitive.
You can buy it if you can buyit on Amazon cheaper and easier.
That's where you're going tobuy it.
Brian Sheehan (36:48):
And it's probably not a fit for you, right.
Todd Gailor (36:50):
Not a fit.
Brian Sheehan (36:51):
Part of the reason you go there.
And let me ask you one morequestion.
This will be the last question.
I get the sense that you'vebeen very intentional about
designing and building acommunity here.
If you could talk about how youthink about that, why it's
important and how and why you'vebeen so intentional about
(37:13):
trying to create a communityaround the acres.
Todd Gailor (37:16):
Yeah, I think one of my business partners who was
really the first businesspartner and I both see eye to
eye Corey Myers.
He and I both went toWittenberg together.
We were coaching soccer.
That's how I met him, but heand I are both big believers in
this like form of community asorganically as you can make it.
And so there's two componentsto community that I see.
(37:39):
One is the consumer side of thecommunity that you're building.
It's getting to know the peoplethat are coming here, getting
to know their families, you know, appreciating them.
I mean, they're coming here tospend thousands of dollars in
golf balls a year or buying foodat the restaurant or drinking
beer here or playing mini golf,and so it's like you have to
appreciate each of those peoplewho are supporting you.
(38:02):
And then there's really thebusiness side of the community,
which are the partners that wehave the architect, the builder,
the branding company, theplumber, the guy that you can
call on a whim, who's going tocome down here and help you fix
things, and then the employeesreally and I say the employees,
(38:24):
we're trying to create acommunity of both high schoolers
and full-time people here thebartenders, and then one of my
business partners.
Bill Roberts, who's been kindof here as sort of a jack of all
trades from the very beginning,has done just incredible work
of just being here and doingthings and fixing things.
So the community is really allabout people, the consumer side,
(38:49):
but you can't forget about thebusiness side.
The architect did a great job,the branding company did a great
job, we have a great builder,and appreciating and trying to
maintain those relationships Imean, I don't I guess I don't
shop around a lot.
I try to find people I trust, asopposed to hey, can you give me
a proposal for running aplumbing line?
(39:11):
It's like you find the peoplethat trust you or that I guess
that trust me to a degree thatI'm going to pay them.
But on the flip side it's likejust do the work, don't gouge me
, and then there's like repeatedwork behind that.
I guess those are the best.
Business relationships are theones where they're going to come
(39:31):
do the work for you.
They're not gouging you,they're going to make.
You know, everyone has to makemoney.
So I want people to make money.
I don't want anything for free.
I don't like doing I'm not abig trade guy Like, oh, I'll do
this for you, and then it's justlike tell me what you need.
I would rather pay you than itdoesn't leave some like
open-ended like.
Like open-ended like.
Do I have to buy him anotherbeer because he did all this
(39:53):
work for me?
It just gets weird.
Brian Sheehan (39:55):
I think it's a great note to end on and good
advice for anybody that wants toown and operate their own
business Find people you trust.
Trust them to do good work.
Todd Gailor (40:06):
Huge, hugely important, and I don't think
we've been burned.
I mean, I think maybe one ortwo contractors along the way
that just you know weren't theright fit.
But you hear stories, right,I've heard plenty of stories of
just relationships that go sourand, knock on wood, we've had a
(40:26):
really good success and we'vebuilt a community.
We're continuing to build acommunity and I think that's
really a big, big part of who weare and what we're about.
Brian Sheehan (40:36):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, Todd, it's really been apleasure having you on Retail
Intel.
Thank you for sharing the storybehind Acres and your insights
into the entertainment space.
Be sure to check out the Acresin Cincinnati and follow them on
Instagram at Acres Cincy.
Todd Gailor (40:52):
Thanks so much.
I really appreciate you havingme on.
It was a real pleasure to talkabout.
Brian Sheehan (41:00):
Whether you're an aspiring real estate mogul, a
seasoned pro or simply curiousabout the places where we shop,
dine, play and work, thispodcast is your all access pass
to the world of commercial realestate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail Intelpodcast, send a message to
(41:20):
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
The kids and the parents are playing miniature
golf, so there's this incrediblefamily dynamic of unplugged.
I think that's a beautifulthing, that the ability to turn
your phone off, get away fromsomething and go have some
family time is what this place,I guess, is about.
It's, I think, for me and mykids, whether we do something
outside of here.
(00:24):
We're here a lot, but theability to put our phones down
and go do something fun is, Ithink, a big part of our success
.
Brian Sheehan (00:34):
Welcome to Retail Intel, the podcast dedicated to
shining a spotlight on the mostinnovative and rapidly growing
brands in the retail sector.
I'm your host, brian Sheehan,and I'm thrilled to guide you
through the dynamic world ofcommercial real estate, where we
explore the latest trends,groundbreaking concepts and the
stories behind today's mostsuccessful retail businesses.
(00:56):
Today, I'm excited to welcome ,co-founder of the Acres, a
golf-focused entertainmentconcept based in Cincinnati,
ohio.
The Acres is redefining howpeople experience golf, not just
through play but through afull-service food and beverage
program, and it makes it adestination for both golfers and
(01:18):
non-golfers alike.
Todd's vision blends sport,hospitality and community in a
way that's innovative andinviting.
I'm looking forward to learningmore about his journey and the
story behind the Acres.
Todd, thanks for joining us onthe podcast.
I'd love to start with yourbackground.
(01:39):
What led you to launch theAcres?
What was your professionalbackground kind of prior to
founding this really interestingbusiness?
Todd Gailor (01:49):
Sure, my background you know.
I grew up here in Cincinnati,finished high school, really,
here in Cincinnati, but I'm aMidwesterner at heart Went away
to college, moved back hereafter college and sort of
teetered around in the corporateworld, both for profit and not
for profit.
I kind of took teetered aroundin the corporate world, both
for-profit and not-for-profit.
I kind of took a cup of coffeein the not-for-profit world
Cincinnati Nature Center and theCincinnati Art Museum and
(02:15):
somehow, lo and behold, ended upin the equipment financing
industry for commercial banksand worked for a number of local
commercial banks, kind of inthat commercial banking industry
.
So I was Provident Bank,natcity, pnc, which was really
all kind of the same job, endedup at a Missouri-based bank that
(02:36):
had a loan production officehere in Cincinnati called
Commerce Bank, which is kind ofan old old world, family run but
publicly traded bank, did thatfor nine or 10 years.
Come 2017, I joined the truckand trailer financing business
at Wells Fargo, which ultimatelyled us into COVID and I think,
(02:59):
as with maybe a lot of people,covid certainly had people
reflecting on life, jobs, family, all sorts of things, because
you had more time to think and Ithink at that point you know I
was 15, 20 years into acommercial banking career,
(03:20):
didn't love.
It Felt like here I am, I'm 47years old.
Is this really what I'm goingto do for the next 15 or 20
years until I retire?
And it just kind of woke me upto what else can I do with my
life?
I think I'm a well-roundedindividual.
I like sales, I like people, Ilike golf.
(03:43):
How do I marry those thingsinto a career?
I took a lunch break whileworking for Wells Fargo.
I was working from home.
So it was just this.
You know, we weren't reallytraveling to go see clients, we
were.
I mean, I was going from mybedroom to my office in my house
and sort of just had all theseideas what else can I do?
(04:06):
And I was like I'm going to go,hit a bucket of balls and drove
down to the old Edders CustomGolf Center on Redding Road in
the village of Evendale, whichis really an iconic place in and
of itself.
It's been around since 1951.
But on that drive was sort ofthis epiphany moment of maybe I
(04:28):
should see if he's willing tosell this old driving range.
And I went down here and sortof I don't know why I was
nervous, but I had this likenervousness of walking into the
pro shop here at Edders and toask him.
Him like hey, would you, areyou willing to sell this place
or are you, are you willing totalk about?
And it was like just the righttime, right place, right time
(04:51):
for him.
He didn't really want to talkabout it at the moment, and so
he he said let's go getbreakfast next week.
And so we went to get breakfastand that sort of started the
ball rolling to an acquisition.
And it was, he said at thattime when we went out to
breakfast, he's like, here's thedeal.
I'm under contract with adevelopment company in
Cincinnati to sell it.
(05:13):
And that meant selling it,tearing the place down, and one
of the local developers who Idon't know exactly who it was,
but build the suit development,they were doing all sorts of
things, but he said it.
It was like it was fallingthrough.
It was during COVID.
He was on some sort of anevergreen every 90 days.
(05:33):
It's like, hey, if we don'tclose, we're going to give you a
little bit of money.
So that was September of 2020.
And in December of 2020, hecalled me.
We had had all these ongoingconversations because I was kind
of hot to trot to get a deal.
And he, in December 2020, hesaid hey, listen, I'm pulling
(05:55):
the plug on this developmentdeal because it just is taking
too long and he's 68 years old,he wants a check and he wants to
retire.
He didn't want to have to wait,keep waiting and waiting.
And so he said I'm willing tosell it to you.
Here's my price.
And so at that moment, decemberof 2020, it just sort of like
exploded my brain of like, oh mygosh, this is a potential real
(06:17):
deal and like a life changingmoment for me.
How can I get this deal done?
And so I called as many peopleas I could who either knew about
this place, knew about smallbusiness, knew about starting a
business I mean, I have a note,still have the notes app on my
phone, just my old iPhone notesapp and I wrote down every
(06:40):
person that I called, what theytalked about the advice yes,
this is a great idea.
No, I think you're crazy.
And I took all of that in.
But I really believed in theconcept and I started writing a
business plan about what thisplace could be.
And I knew kind of marryinggolf and this place had a mini
(07:03):
golf course course, so it hadtoo many golf courses that were
largely in disrepair, largelyunutilized, but it had a loyal
client base of golfers who wouldjust come down here to hit golf
balls.
And I just fully believed inkind of marrying the old school
driving range concept, the minigolf, and then really borrowing,
(07:27):
I think, from ideas that aresuccessful.
Right, a lot of ideas, a lot ofmusic is really just borrowed
rhythms and melodies of otherplaces that are successful.
And so I say the success ofTopgolf, the success of kind of
these open brewery concepts,which I admire.
I admire 50 West and Ireferenced 50 West in my
(07:50):
business plan.
I admire the Slatterys and BobSlatterys.
He's an entrepreneur, he's ahardcore entrepreneur, he works
very hard and they've created aconcept that people subscribe to
Madtree Brewing, certainlysimilar.
I'm not a Topgolf guy, I don'tthink golf purists are top golf
people, but top golf, you can'targue with the success that they
(08:10):
had.
And so I think what people foundwas that you know, hitting a
golf ball is fun and top golfkind of brought that to a much
wider audience.
Obviously, the topolf conceptis kind of built around this
reward system Every time you hita ball, you get points or you
get something.
And so I sort of took all ofthose ideas and said, okay, I
(08:35):
think we can do something likethis at this golf driving range,
mini golf facility, obviouslywith adding the restaurant and
bar.
So that's really how I kind ofbuilt the business plan.
I took ideas, I referencedthose ideas of the 50 West and
the mad trees and the top golfsand sort of amalgamated them
(08:56):
into my own little concept andtried to pitch it to people and
said hey, this is the idea thatI want to build.
What do you think of it?
And I got a lot of feedback anda lot of people said no.
But I'm a sales guy at heart.
So my goal was to find peoplethat would say yes, because I
(09:16):
really believed in it.
And I think the best advicethat I got from someone along
the way who's a localentrepreneur here in Cincinnati,
he owns restaurants and bars,he's a development guy he said
whatever you do, just love it.
If you love the thing thatyou're doing, it will show and
it will be successful.
And I think that's like supersimple advice and it could go
(09:40):
with any career, right, I think,if you really love what you do
and you love the place, peoplewill see it, people will feel it
, and so, yeah, that's kind ofthe long short story of how I
ultimately got this property.
Brian Sheehan (09:56):
That's incredible .
What a journey that you've beenon to build this or renovate,
remodel, bring to new life, youknow, this cultural kind of an
institution.
I mean, I can remember goingthere as a kid, so I love what
you've done with it.
I guess I'm curious a couple ofthings how many people said no
(10:20):
to the idea and what was sort ofthe consensus you know, maybe
behind the nose of people whodidn't think maybe this was, you
know, a concept with legs andI'm really kind of leading
towards Eatertainment, such abig trend right now.
And you, you know, talked aboutTopgolf and some of the other
(10:42):
places in Cincinnati, Ohio,where you can go have that
experience.
But I'm curious, kind of like,why Eatertainment is doing so
well.
But it's sort of a two partquestion there, I guess.
Todd Gailor (10:54):
Yeah, I think it's a great question and I think the
no's were really based, I think, on people that had been coming
here, based, I think, on peoplethat had been coming here.
Golfer friends of mine will usethose examples of, like man,
that place is so rundown thatit's going to cost a lot of
money to renovate it.
And I said, yeah, you'reprobably right, it's a pretty
(11:18):
rundown property.
But I guess real estate peopleknow location is super important
.
So I always thought, okay thenose, I'm balancing out these
nose with the like to me againspinning it into okay the nose,
they're saying it's really rundown.
(11:38):
My yes to that is greatlocation, great community.
That is great location, greatcommunity.
The village of Evendale is, youknow, a wildly successful, tiny
little place because they haveGE Aerospace as corporate
headquarters, formica ascorporate headquarters, growing
biotech companies as corporateheadquarters, and so I think,
(12:01):
you know, close to Kenwood,close to Montgomery, close to
Blue Ash, close enough to IndianHill, close enough to Madeira,
so you've got all thesecommunities.
So location's important.
It's on a main road.
So I sort of balanced out okay,the no's are like, yeah, it's
run down, but I believe that ifI put the money in I'd bring
people here.
The other really is that therewas infrastructure here that
(12:24):
existed, that was convertible,and so there were buildings on
the property.
There were two miniature golfcourses here that didn't need a
ton of work to get them up andrunning, to provide
entertainment space, and I love.
It's in a little valley.
The Mill Creek runs throughhere, so you have incredible
(12:45):
nature.
I'm a bird nerd at heart so Ilove the outdoors, I love birds
and it's got this like there'snature here, so it's like man.
How do you take all of thesethings?
It's a beautiful piece ofproperty.
Largely.
It wasn't beautiful when wetook over, but it had all the
guts for it to be beautiful.
(13:06):
And so you know the no's.
The other no's were restaurantpeople, and this is during COVID
, so we really hadn't felt.
The restaurant industrycertainly has changed, probably
for the worse, over the lastfour or five years.
It's a very difficult industryand so those are kind of the
(13:27):
other no's like ah, therestaurant business is so hard,
true, but this is not afreestanding restaurant.
My belief was that thecommunity of this place could be
built around the restaurant.
I'm not a freestandingrestaurant so I'm not fully
reliant on restaurant and barI'm reliant on, and this is a
(13:48):
big part of the business planbuilding a community around a
restaurant and bar, orentertainment as you would call
it, which I think are.
(14:14):
You know, these are businessesthat I don't have to compete
with Amazon I'm really competingwith.
You know, amazon has changedthe whole landscape of many,
many things.
So what are industries that?
You know?
There certainly is competitionfor entertainment, but I'm
marrying something that Ibelieve in.
Golf is growing in popularity,and so I think I thought the
(14:35):
concept was there, and I thinkone of the things that I'm most
proud of, and people that comehere also notice, is that when
families come here, kids largelyare not on their phones, so
people are playing games.
You can't duplicate thatanywhere and so you know they
(14:57):
come down here, they have afamily.
Dad or mom might have a beer ora seltzer or a cocktail.
The kids and the parents areplaying miniature golf.
So there's this incrediblefamily dynamic of unplugged, and
so I think that's a beautifulthing that is super important in
society today that you areunplugging from your phones.
(15:19):
I mean, here we are ontechnology, here we're
connecting in this incrediblespace, but the ability to turn
your phone off, get away fromsomething and go have some
family time is what this place,I guess, is about.
It's, I think, for me and mykids, whether we do something
outside of here.
We're here a lot, but theability to put our phones down
(15:42):
and go do something fun is, uh,I think, a big part of our
success.
Brian Sheehan (15:46):
Absolutely, and I think it answers, you know,
part of that question, which iswhy is an entertainment concept
successful?
In part, it's due to the factthat this is a place you can go
and you don't have to be pluggedin to a device.
You can disconnect Totally.
And, yeah, one thing I probablytook for granted was the, I
(16:09):
guess, the natural beauty andsplendor of the location that
you're at, something I neverfully appreciated until you, you
know, made a point to kind ofopen up and direct people to the
Mill Creek, which is, you know,a really amazing asset to have.
Todd Gailor (16:25):
Absolutely is, and it's like that kind of leads
into one of the discussionpoints that I had.
So here I talked to Steve inDecember of 2020, and he's
agreed to sell the property tome.
Really, the environmentalsteward of the Mill Creek and
(16:53):
they were a handful of peopleover the last 25 or 30 years
have been instrumental incleaning up the Mill Creek.
So they alarm businesses hey,you're dumping toxic chemicals
into the creek and they wouldalert the EPA.
And so I think a lot of thesuccess or the transformation of
the Mill Creek was handled by anumber of people who believed
(17:15):
that the Mill Creek should becleaned up.
And so I called them, had manyconversations, asked them.
I mean because if you grew upin Cincinnati, the Mill Creek
was this toxic cesspool youdon't get near it, you don't put
businesses on it Certainly afamily entertainment business
because it's dirty and it'sgross.
And so I did the research.
I called the Mill CreekAlliance.
(17:35):
They said, hey, listen, theMill Creek in certain sections
is cleaner than the little MiamiRiver, which is a national
historic river.
And I believed in kind of whatthey were doing with the cleanup
of the creek, this propertywhich you know, when I was
starting to talk to Steve inDecember of 2020 and on into
2021, you couldn't even see theMill Creek because there was a
(17:56):
30 foot section of honeysuckleso you couldn't even access it.
So I came down here one day andsort of dug my way through the
honeysuckle and looked at thecreek.
I was like, oh my gosh, this islike it's beautiful, it's a
beautiful section of creek, andI just believed, man, okay, so
(18:17):
they're cleaning it up.
There's like people that careabout it, they're taking people
on kayak trips on the Mill Creek, and so it's not the Little
Miami River.
It's not as big, so it's alittle bit harder to kayak or
canoe it.
But I just viewed it as thisincredible natural resource that
could be part of the propertyinstead of hidden from the
property.
And so we cleaned out a lot ofthe honeysuckle after we took
(18:37):
over and have created.
You know, we and I invite peopleto come down to see it.
I mean, if you're, if you're atthe restaurant and bar or the
patio or you're playing golf,you don't, you don't you may not
even walk down there to see it,and so I try to get as many
people down there.
I'm like, look at this.
This is like little waterfall.
Here there's we've seen baldeagles, there's turtles, there's
(19:00):
smallmouth bass, large mouthbass, incredible wildlife and
that didn't exist 25 years ago.
I mean, the Mill Creek was themost endangered urban stream in
North America.
It was very dirty, it did nothave a lot of life and I say
life, beavers and muskrats andbald eagles and herons and all
(19:20):
these things, and that has allstarted to come back.
And we're highlighting that andI think it's just such an
important piece to ourdevelopment and growth over the
next five years is gettingpeople connected back to the
Mill Creek, whether it's a 60minute canoe trip, I'm not
(19:47):
saying a big long, all day giantmultinational companies that do
business right here in Evendale, but you're, you're surrounded,
kind of, in this littleminiature oasis, and so
certainly a big part of what Ibelieved in and I don't even
think we've touched, scratchedthe surface of what we can make
of the Mill Creek.
Brian Sheehan (20:08):
So I don't know if I answered that question
right, but you did now and Imean I think you're absolutely
right, there's so much therethat's untapped potential.
And I think it speaks a littlebit to kind of the next question
, which is, you know, if youcould talk about some of the
challenges of operating a hybrid, some of the challenges of
(20:33):
operating a hybrid, you know,retail restaurant entertainment
concept like this.
I think one of the takeawaysfor me would be you know, really
understand and take a look atkind of what you have on site or
within the bounds of yourbusiness to make sure you're
maximizing the full potential ofkind of everything you can do,
like you've done with the MillCreek.
There you're starting to dowith the Mill Creek, but if you
(20:55):
could talk about what some ofthe other challenges are kind of
operating a hybrid businessconcept like this and how you
overcame them.
Todd Gailor (21:04):
Yeah, I think, as a , I mean I'm a, I was a business
guy, I was a sales guy, but Icertainly wasn't a an operations
guy and and so I think this isto me a hybrid is this is a
sales business to a degree orit's a customer relations
business, and I'm good at thecustomer relations side, and so
(21:29):
it's welcoming people to theproperty, thanking them for
coming, making sure that I'mvisible as a face to the whole
thing.
I mean I don't I'm the acres iscertainly much bigger than me,
but I think any small businessthat I go to, that you go to,
you know, when you see the owneror an owner there in the weeds
(21:52):
doing the things, I think itjust like gives you an
appreciation for that business.
And I think I'm good at therelation side and good at being
here and being present, and I'vecommitted a to a.
I mean this is a seven day aweek job from April until really
the end of December.
A.
I mean this is a seven day aweek job from April until really
(22:13):
the end of December.
And I think the things that arethe most challenging for me are
the restaurant and bar, andrestaurant and bar business is
is very hands-on.
It's low margin business?
Um, it is.
It is a.
It's a very tough business torun and I would say a lot of my
time is spent helping therestaurant and bar, staffing the
(22:33):
restaurant and bar, even thoughit's probably on the smaller
side of the profitability of thebusiness, but it's such a key
component to the overallcommunity we're building.
So I think a business like thisjust is hands-on.
I mean, there really isn't away to avoid the restaurant and
(22:56):
bar business, the miniature golfbusiness.
This is a customer business andso you just have to be here and
you have to feel it and youhave to see it and you have to
adapt.
I would love for it to be aproactive business and I'm
trying to get there.
I've had all of thesereflections over the past number
of months of how do we get moreproactive towards program
(23:20):
development, towards creating acalendar of events, towards me
being less involved in fixingthings and me being more
involved in planning and visionand strategy, and that's what I
want to do.
But I also know that I have toreally kind of be in the weeds
(23:42):
still until we're you know thisis we're still only three years
from the time that we opened therestaurant, which was August of
22.
And so we're getting there andI think that's my goal is.
The challenge is the restaurantand bar.
It requires a lot of people, itrequires a lot of labor.
You know, restaurant barbusiness is very tough.
(24:02):
The margins aren't very good,but how do we create programs
and program development thatreally feed and help grow this
property?
I think I'm learning and I'm notreally an operations guy, I'm a
bigger picture guy and I'mreally not a detailed guy.
So I think anyone here, both mybusiness partners, investors
(24:25):
and the people that work herewould probably say the same
thing.
I mean, I'm pretty spacey, I'mpretty ATD and I try my best to
listen, and I'm frequently on myphone and responding to someone
and someone's talking in my ear.
I'm like I'm listening, like Itold you that five minutes ago.
I'm like, ok, I heard it, canyou tell me again?
So I'm getting better?
(24:47):
I promise, tell me again, soI'm getting better, I promise.
Brian Sheehan (24:50):
Todd, what advice would you give to yourself if
you could go back three years orfive years?
You know when you were firststarting to put this together.
What lessons do you feel likeyou've learned?
That you know would translateto somebody that's interested in
opening their own entertainmentconcept.
Todd Gailor (25:09):
I don't believe.
I mean, I think it's like yougo through this iteration.
I met a couple here six monthsago who were going to try to
start some sort of almost likenot youth hostel, but like some
sort of a community space aroundhotel, like a mini hotel in
(25:29):
northern Kentucky, and they wereasking me, and I think I said
pick good business partners,have a good operating agreement.
From a legal standpoint, thatwas advice that one of my
business partners, who's nolonger here, gave me.
It was just like, hey, you havean operating agreement not to
protect yourself from failure,you have an operating agreement
(25:53):
to operate for success.
And so you know it's like youthink of it as like a defense
mechanism, but really you shouldthink of it as, hey, this is
going to be successful, weshould have an operating
agreement that is pointing ourway towards success, which is
like a positive spin on.
That is pointing our waytowards success, which is like a
positive spin on, I guess, thelegal world.
I have great business partners,all with different skill sets,
(26:16):
and I think having the abilityto pick business partners that
you like, that hopefully leaveyou alone.
You know I'm here 80 to 100hours a week, or at least
plugged into the business atthat much, and so I think
largely investors and peoplehave left me to.
(26:37):
They trust me to do the workthat I'm supposed to be doing.
I think the hardest part, for me, the most difficult thing, is
delegating, and I think I'mlearning how to delegate, but
it's not my strong suit.
I feel like I'm better doing itthan I am trying to train
someone, because it takes longerfor me to train someone to do
it than for me to just do itmyself.
(26:58):
And I've heard that from many,many business owners.
There are plenty of businessowners here who live in the
village of Evendale who havebeen loose guides for me.
They're not formal, formaladvisors, but they'll come down
and have a beer and ask me howthings are going hey, how can I
help you?
And I've largely told them likeI think the hardest part for me
(27:19):
is to delegate.
And they all said the samething.
In the first three or four orfive years of starting a
business or owning a business,they said the same thing.
They said you'll learn how todelegate, but they understand
the need to want to do ityourself, and so I think that's
the hardest part is justlearning how to find the right
(27:41):
people who you can delegate toand trusting them to do the work
and staying out of their way.
I don't want to manage people.
I listened to one of your otherpodcasts and I don't remember
who it was.
I listened to one of your otherpodcasts and I don't remember
who it was.
I think it might've been Joshfrom Mizunte, but he said the
same thing.
He's like I want somethingrelated to leading and not
(28:01):
managing, and I think I guess Ilead by example.
I clean bathrooms, I pick uptrash.
I'm constantly around theproperty doing things that I
believe I should be doing, but Icertainly don't want to manage
people.
I want to find people who see Ican probably tell and help, but
(28:21):
my goal is to find people whocan lead themselves.
I'll knock down walls to helpyou do the job that you need to
do, but I don't want to come inand have the 30 minute
management.
Hey, what did you do this week?
And you know the micromanagingstuff, because I believe you
know I've got an amazing chefright now and I'd be remiss if I
didn't mention him.
(28:42):
He's done amazing work in thepast year and he manages himself
.
He's done this for 20 years.
I don't need to get in his way.
I can help him knock thingsdown, try to prevent things that
are muddling up his world,which I try to do.
I'm sure I've stumbled alongthe way, but he's a great chef,
(29:05):
has made great food and I stayout of his way.
I don't need to manage him.
He knows what he's doing.
He's been in the restaurantbusiness for 20 years.
So back to the question is, Ithink, how do you lead and how
do you delegate?
Brian Sheehan (29:20):
The hardest certainly the hardest part for
me, and I'm learning- it soundslike we could do kind of an
entire episode on that justaspect alone of owning and
operating a business.
There's a few other things I'mhoping we can get through.
One talk about kind of thedesign of the entire experience.
(29:41):
So it sounds like from theoutset you knew you wanted to
have a bar and a restaurant onsite, but I guess talk about how
the different elements kind ofcame together there at the Acres
.
Todd Gailor (29:52):
Yeah, I think it was always designed.
I mean, I, I here.
I bought an old driving range,been here since 1951.
It had a miniature golf course.
That was an iconic place.
It was a putt putt at one point.
It was always built aroundrestaurant, bar, driving range,
miniature golf.
(30:13):
We've since added this lightedforest concept, which is
certainly not new.
The Cincinnati Zoo does theirFestival of Lights and other
companies around town ornonprofits are creating lighted
forest walks to bring people totheir facility during the
tougher months and for us Ithink adding the lighted forest
(30:35):
was an important piece toNovember and December we die.
Once the time changes, thebusiness sort of falls off the
cliff and so I think that's likethe fifth piece of the business
for us.
It's restaurant, bar, drivingrange, miniature golf.
Lighted forest is like thefifth revenue piece and last
year was the first year.
(30:55):
It was a wild success and ourgoal is to create it into really
an art and light festival.
So we commission local artiststo come down here trying to take
our spin, to do it a little bitdifferently than maybe some
other companies and ornonprofits in town.
So I think it was always builtaround the concept of those four
things.
We added a fifth.
(31:16):
Can we add a sixth or a seventh?
Those are all sort of in theworks that may get released next
year.
There are big surprises to theworld.
One of those surprises is apop-up drive-in movie theater on
the driving range, which issomething new and something that
we're going to try, and it'susing the space.
(31:36):
I mean, it's like, okay, youhave this big, giant driving
range out there, how do you useit?
It's like, okay, it's just adriving range, it's supposed to
receive golf balls, but arethere other things that we can
do on that space?
And so that's kind of where thedrive-in or music festival or
things like that came about.
So we're still a four-piecebusiness, really, four revenue
(31:58):
centers, the fifth kind of thelighted forest.
But how do you continue to addto this entertainment concept
while still being core to thisis a golf place and and I don't
want to alienate the drivingrange base, because that is a
big part of who we are but howcan we expand?
That, I think is, are thequestions that us myself and I'm
(32:21):
not the only owner, I am themajority owner, but I have
investors and so making surethat we are have a keen eye
towards profitability.
This is a for-profit businessand shareholder return largely
increasing the value of thisasset that we have.
But mindful to my belief, ifyou build a community around
(32:45):
this place that everything elsekind of falls into place.
Brian Sheehan (32:49):
One that's really fascinating about the I'm going
to call it in the sense of agolf driving range or drive-in
movie theater, and how do youmaximize the revenue that you
can generate from that?
I'm curious the differentmetrics that you might use for a
business like this, because youhave the four different revenue
centers and obviously you needto be focused on profitability.
(33:13):
But I'm curious, are therecertain metrics that you're
looking at, like how many youknow buckets of balls did we
sell?
Are you offering you know golflessons, swing analysis,
technology, integration at thedriving range, many golf rounds
played?
And then also to talk about howimportant is the retail side of
the business, because you guyshave a cool and I would say,
(33:35):
what growing merchandisingprogram there.
Todd Gailor (33:38):
Yeah, so I'm actually wearing the.
So our branding company isTommy Sheehan, who runs a
company called Tommy Inc.
He's been a kind of longtimebranding guy in town.
We really believe in the Acresbrand and building a brand
around it.
Currently we are demoing outthe old pro shop, which used to
be a club repair facility, andthat becomes kind of our hybrid
(34:03):
retail shop.
We've almost not abandoned theretail piece, but we've been
careful about making sure thatwhen we do retail we are aware
of creating a retail conceptthat is unique merchandise.
And so the golf club business,the golf retail business, is
(34:23):
hyper competitive.
The margins are pretty bad, andso I believe in the concept
more of like how do you createunique retail merchandise that
you can't buy on Amazon, thatsomeone isn't going to say, oh
yeah, well, I found that at golfgalaxy, for you know $15 and
you're selling it for $25.
And so the ability?
(34:44):
Not, you know, I don't want tocompete in that business.
I want to find, um, our ownlittle niche, and so I think we
can create a merchandising linearound the acres that is super
unique, that is small.
I don't want to be a bigretailer.
I think retail is tough.
It's got to be staffed.
But I think we can createsomething that's unique.
(35:04):
And I look at the golf industryas a whole.
There are all of these craftmicro brands.
It's sort of like the breweryindustry craft beer.
It's like I know the guy thatbrews that and they named it
after his cousin who's you know.
It's like all that stuff is allthe rage and I think the golf
industry head covers andclothing lines have exploded and
(35:29):
there's a ton of opportunity inthat space.
It was written in the businessplan that we could create a
merchandising line around thatspace.
It was written in the businessplan that we could create a
merchandising line around theacres and we've got the acres
and the A flag and a handful ofother things.
I don't know that business wellenough, but I really believe
that that can be a reallysuccessful retail side of our
business.
And so the pro shop is nowgutted.
(35:52):
We are starting to work with anarchitect to develop something
that's a usable space, not fullyretail, but enough retail
that's convertible.
So it's like a hangout space,slash retail, slash.
You know, it's like you got tolike adapt to all of these
things instead of it just beinga retail shop because a retail
(36:12):
shop.
You got to staff, and I don'tnecessarily want to staff it 12
hours a day, absolutely.
That's a big cost, right.
So but I do think I believe inthe retail side, and retail
could be grips, golf grips.
It could be merchandise, but ithas to be merchandise.
That's ours, as opposed toStrixon or Titleist or something
(36:37):
else.
Not that I would abandon those,but I just think it's too
hyper-competitive.
You can buy it if you can buyit on Amazon cheaper and easier.
That's where you're going tobuy it.
Brian Sheehan (36:48):
And it's probably not a fit for you, right.
Todd Gailor (36:50):
Not a fit.
Brian Sheehan (36:51):
Part of the reason you go there.
And let me ask you one morequestion.
This will be the last question.
I get the sense that you'vebeen very intentional about
designing and building acommunity here.
If you could talk about how youthink about that, why it's
important and how and why you'vebeen so intentional about
(37:13):
trying to create a communityaround the acres.
Todd Gailor (37:16):
Yeah, I think one of my business partners who was
really the first businesspartner and I both see eye to
eye Corey Myers.
He and I both went toWittenberg together.
We were coaching soccer.
That's how I met him, but heand I are both big believers in
this like form of community asorganically as you can make it.
And so there's two componentsto community that I see.
(37:39):
One is the consumer side of thecommunity that you're building.
It's getting to know the peoplethat are coming here, getting
to know their families, you know, appreciating them.
I mean, they're coming here tospend thousands of dollars in
golf balls a year or buying foodat the restaurant or drinking
beer here or playing mini golf,and so it's like you have to
appreciate each of those peoplewho are supporting you.
(38:02):
And then there's really thebusiness side of the community,
which are the partners that wehave the architect, the builder,
the branding company, theplumber, the guy that you can
call on a whim, who's going tocome down here and help you fix
things, and then the employeesreally and I say the employees,
(38:24):
we're trying to create acommunity of both high schoolers
and full-time people here thebartenders, and then one of my
business partners.
Bill Roberts, who's been kindof here as sort of a jack of all
trades from the very beginning,has done just incredible work
of just being here and doingthings and fixing things.
So the community is really allabout people, the consumer side,
(38:49):
but you can't forget about thebusiness side.
The architect did a great job,the branding company did a great
job, we have a great builder,and appreciating and trying to
maintain those relationships Imean, I don't I guess I don't
shop around a lot.
I try to find people I trust, asopposed to hey, can you give me
a proposal for running aplumbing line?
(39:11):
It's like you find the peoplethat trust you or that I guess
that trust me to a degree thatI'm going to pay them.
But on the flip side it's likejust do the work, don't gouge me
, and then there's like repeatedwork behind that.
I guess those are the best.
Business relationships are theones where they're going to come
(39:31):
do the work for you.
They're not gouging you,they're going to make.
You know, everyone has to makemoney.
So I want people to make money.
I don't want anything for free.
I don't like doing I'm not abig trade guy Like, oh, I'll do
this for you, and then it's justlike tell me what you need.
I would rather pay you than itdoesn't leave some like
open-ended like.
Like open-ended like.
Do I have to buy him anotherbeer because he did all this
(39:53):
work for me?
It just gets weird.
Brian Sheehan (39:55):
I think it's a great note to end on and good
advice for anybody that wants toown and operate their own
business Find people you trust.
Trust them to do good work.
Todd Gailor (40:06):
Huge, hugely important, and I don't think
we've been burned.
I mean, I think maybe one ortwo contractors along the way
that just you know weren't theright fit.
But you hear stories, right,I've heard plenty of stories of
just relationships that go sourand, knock on wood, we've had a
(40:26):
really good success and we'vebuilt a community.
We're continuing to build acommunity and I think that's
really a big, big part of who weare and what we're about.
Brian Sheehan (40:36):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, Todd, it's really been apleasure having you on Retail
Intel.
Thank you for sharing the storybehind Acres and your insights
into the entertainment space.
Be sure to check out the Acresin Cincinnati and follow them on
Instagram at Acres Cincy.
Todd Gailor (40:52):
Thanks so much.
I really appreciate you havingme on.
It was a real pleasure to talkabout.
Brian Sheehan (41:00):
Whether you're an aspiring real estate mogul, a
seasoned pro or simply curiousabout the places where we shop,
dine, play and work, thispodcast is your all access pass
to the world of commercial realestate.
Connect with me on LinkedIn and, if you're interested in being
a part of the Retail Intelpodcast, send a message to
(41:20):
nationalaccounts atphillipsedisoncom.
If you want to hear more aboutnew and expanding brands, keep
tuning in to Retail Intel andplease subscribe, follow, like
and repost.
Talk to you next time.
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