November 6, 2025 • 35 mins
What happens when you leave the corporate world behind to build something wild and unconventional? In this episode, Dale dives into conversation with Jimmy Funkhouser, founder of Feral, an outdoor retail business that’s anything but ordinary. Jimmy shares his journey from working at Toys R Us to launching an independent shop with a bold mission—helping people escape domestication and reconnect with the outdoors.
Discover how Feral evolved from a high-end technical gear shop to a community-driven hub where used gear and accessibility take center stage. Jimmy opens up about leadership, creativity, saying no to good ideas, and why retail is a never-ending challenge worth embracing. Packed with insights on entrepreneurship, adaptability, and staying true to your vision, this episode is a must-listen for retailers, outdoor enthusiasts, and anyone looking to shake up the norm.
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Episode Transcript
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Introduction (00:03):
Welcome to the Adventure Retail Podcast, your
go-to destination for all thingsoutdoor retail.
Join us as we embark on ajourney through the captivating
world of outdoor gear shops,exploring retail triumphs,
challenges and everything inbetween, from product sourcing
to customer engagementstrategies.
We're here to support andempower outdoor gear retailers
every step of the way.
Dale (00:25):
All right, jimmy, it's great to be here with you today,
great to be here with you.
Thanks for making the time, sowe're going to start with.
I'd love for you to giveeverybody maybe a 90-second
summary of how you got here intothe outdoor industry.
You're eight years in, but whathappened before that to help
(00:46):
you end up where you are.
Jimmy (00:48):
Yeah, so I was in a corporate kind of existence with
Toys R Us and Babies R Us andrest in peace, jeffrey.
But I woke up one day and Ikind of asked myself what would
I do if I wasn't afraid to do it?
And my very next thought was Iwould leave my job tomorrow.
So that was in December of 2015.
(01:10):
And we grand opened in March of2016.
And if you've ever started abusiness, you know how quick
that is.
You know we took the dive andwent to outdoor retailer that
winter to try to get my bearingsand try to learn the industry
and I realized I had absolutelyno idea what I was doing.
But we navigated to a grandopening in March of 2016 in
(01:35):
Denver.
We were in a small space therein Denver for two and a half
years.
We were lucky enough to grow inthe Denver market and move into
a bigger space that we movedinto in 2018.
And we did have a small shop upin Idaho Springs for about five
years and then we migrated thatshop out to the Midwest and
(01:55):
have recently grand opened a newspace in Grand Rapids, michigan
, actually just two weeks ago.
So that's been the, I guess,the brief evolution of my
journey with Ferrell, startingback in 2016.
Dale (02:10):
Okay, so tell me why.
Where did you get the nameFerrell?
Jimmy (02:15):
I love this question because it's precisely why I
chose the name right?
So there's this history ofoutdoor gear shops throughout
the country being named TacomaOutfitters or San Francisco
Outdoors or whatever Right?
So that's the easy thing to do,but it just didn't feel
authentic to me and it didn'treally jump off the page and we
(02:38):
dabbled with names like that.
But I wanted a name that wouldcatch you and would result in
one remembering it because it'sunique.
But also I wanted it to reallycatch people off guard and make
them think for a second Likewhat is that all about?
But the word itselfetymologically means to escape
from domestication and becomewild.
(02:59):
And just when I read that, Iwas like that's exactly what we
want to do.
We want to get people outside.
We want to get people out ofthe house on the trail, in the
mountains, escaping from theirnormal life.
And just the definition of thatword really spoke to why not
only what we wanted to do, butwhy I was choosing to take the
(03:20):
path.
And it just worked.
And and also there's pragmaticparts to everything.
Right, we wanted to own a word,and if you've ever owned a
business, you know how importantSEO is, things like that and I
wanted a word that wasn't reallyused normally in business
circles.
So when you Google it or youuse it, like you know, just
(03:40):
immediately the results comeback and send you in the right
direction.
Dale (03:46):
Yeah, escape domestication ?
I didn't.
I kind of knew like feral wildanimal, I didn't.
I didn't know the exactdefinition.
So that's so you.
You became feral as you leftyour desk job.
You were feral and likeescaping domestication of the
big box corporate to go out onyour own escaping domestication
(04:06):
of the big box corporate to goout on your own.
Jimmy (04:09):
Yeah, it was.
It was.
It truly spoke to why I wasdoing the whole thing to begin
with.
You know to include, you knowto include like my journey.
You know that was part of it,but also just what I cared about
.
I've always been passionateabout getting people outside.
I've always been passionateabout getting people outside.
I've always been the guydragging people out to the trail
.
And when I, you know, didresearch into trying to figure
(04:33):
out the name and I saw thatdefinition it was, it was
immediate, I said that's it,yeah man I love and most people
listening won't be able to goand rebrand um so easily.
Dale (04:44):
I guess they, they, you know they can um, but you're
starting this with a whole otherperspective.
Uh, you're not jumping into itwith just the sole perspective
of I'm going to open oneconsignment shop in, you know,
in Denver, and that's my lifeand I'm going to retire here.
And you know, you kind of leftthe door open for it to become
(05:06):
what it could become.
Jimmy (05:08):
Yeah, with any business I think you've experienced this
and I'm sure most small businessowners that have scaled at all
have experienced this the thingbecomes its own thing.
You know, in many ways feral Idon't have the reins the same
way I did back in 2018, right,the monster starts to eat in
(05:30):
ways you don't expect and youthink you've got control of it,
and sometimes you do andsometimes you don't, and I've
always, over the last four orfive years, I've had the
mentality of trying to stay outof the way sometimes and letting
the community drive what it isthat we should be doing.
You know, we very much tried tokeep the mindset of our job is
(05:56):
to constantly be renewing oursocial license to operate.
Right, that's the term I loveto use which is when your
customers come in every day,they're deciding whether or not
they're renewing your license tooperate.
You may not think of it in thatterms, and I think the best way
to stay in front of that isjust to constantly be thinking
about what it is they need fromyou.
(06:19):
You know what?
What is it?
Uh, how can we be serving ourcommunity today?
That's different than it wastwo years ago and, ultimately,
that's a big part of why westarted selling used gear two
years into into the adventurewas just in, like just being
maniacally connected to what wewere hearing and what people
(06:39):
wanted.
So I think, yeah, thatsometimes you have to drive and
sometimes you have to bevulnerable enough to just get
out of the way and let thebusiness and the community drive
your decisions, and I thinkthat that's been a big part of
our journey for the last fewyears.
Dale (07:00):
Let the business become feral.
I won't keep making those,these bad jokes, but I love it.
I'm really loving that.
Uh, escaping domestication,that's like a super cool um,
that's cool imagery and, and youcould have yeah, I'm I'm sure
you're already leveraging thebrand um in in some of those
(07:25):
ways, but you know, I'd wear aferal t-shirt and, yeah, it's
super cool.
It became very obvious, talkingto you for the first 20 minutes
before we started recording,that you are more strategic than
the next guy and maybe I'm justcomparing you to myself or you
know whatever, but but I wasreally.
But I was really um.
(07:50):
No, it was impressive to seehow your mind worked and even
just in choosing your name right, there's a good amount of
thought.
So if you were going to coach aretailer, you know for 10
minutes, you know I'm, I'm yourshop down the street when it
comes to you know my, mybusiness strategy, street when
it comes to.
You know my business strategyand this probably isn't a great
question, but, like, what aresome of the things you'd share
(08:11):
in?
Maybe how you'd look at anotherretail business that maybe
other people aren't getting,because you also have this
insight from not coming from theindustry.
Jimmy (08:22):
Right.
Yeah, I think the mostimportant thing, there's two
ways to think about it.
One way is is this somethingyou want to continue to do or is
it something you want to build?
You want to build the exitstrategy in right, because
there's a lot of people thatstart businesses with the intent
to exit at some point become anacquisition.
(08:43):
But I'm going to operate underthe assumption that we're
talking to people that want tobe lifers.
Right, they want to buildsomething that they continue to
be a part of.
And if that's the case, if youwant to stay along for the
entire journey, it has to bebuilt in a way to keep you
filled up, your energy, yourexcitement.
It has to be something you'reproud to do and you're excited
to do, because if it's not, youfilled up your energy, your
(09:04):
excitement, you have to.
It has to be something you'reproud to do and you're excited
to do, because, if it's not,every small business owner is a
single point of failure and ifyou wake up one morning and
you've decided that it no longerfills you up, the party's over
for everybody.
Right, and I think so manytimes we lose sight of that.
I lost sight of it, admittedly,you know, a couple of years,
(09:31):
and then I had, I had, to stepback and and reconfigure my
relationship with the businessand understand how can, how can
I continue to drive this forwardin a way that I'm excited about
, I'm proud of it, thecommunity's proud of it, and I
have the relationships I need inthis business.
So, any, any time I have thatconversation, I always.
I always ask them is thissomething that you want to
continue to be a part of and, ifso, how do you build a healthy
(09:53):
relationship with it and how doyou build it in a way that
you're proud to keep doing whatyou're doing?
That's a deal breaker, becauseif that, if you ever lose that,
then the game's over before yourealize it.
You know you're just biding,biding your time.
The game's over before yourealize it.
You know you're just bidingyour time.
I think that's core andcritical.
The other thing is and this iskind of in the same vein is do
(10:15):
it in a way that's authentic toyou and do it the way you want
to do it, because if your ideastruly are bad, the market's
undefeated, right, and you'lllearn that quickly.
But you know a lot of peoplethat work in a corporate
environment, which I did for 10years.
The big gripe they have is it'sreally difficult to be creative
(10:36):
in that kind of environment,right, there's rules and
structure and scaffolding andit's hard to break away from
that.
Try new ideas and do thosethings.
If you're going to start asmall business, lean into the
beauty of what a small businessand entrepreneurial journey
offers, which is precisely thatan opportunity to really put
(10:56):
your fingerprint on the businessand the entity that you're
running.
So do it your way, do it.
Do it in a way that truly leansinto your own creativity.
There are these rails, right Inevery industry that people tend
to fall right into and just endup several miles down the track
before they realize they'relike everybody else in the
(11:19):
market.
That's not fun, that's notunique, that's not creative,
that's not really introducinganything fun to the universe,
right?
So if I think about, you know,renewing our social license to
operate, I constantly thinkabout why are we different?
Why do we deserve to be here?
And if the if the answer isever well, I don't know then we
(11:41):
probably shouldn't be doing itanymore, right?
So I think being brave enoughto just say I think my ideas are
great and I'm going to executeon those ideas, pass or fail.
I wish more business ownerswould do that.
Dale (12:01):
I love that We've talked.
I own Grand Trunk with twoother partners.
My brother and we've workedtogether for a long time so we
pretty much work as a.
You know, we've worked prettyclosely together.
And then our other partner, whoactually he started and he
founded Campsaber, soCampsabercom Andy Stroman is his
name really sharp, it's reallysharp and we actually we get
(12:23):
along really well.
We're all.
We're a pretty strongpartnership.
But I've found the more peoplethat you have to discuss your
ideas with it might be goodbecause you might save yourself
from making doing some of thedumb things.
But sometimes the dumb stuff,the second iteration of the dumb
thing is really good, or likethe third where.
(12:46):
But if you can't do some of thefirst dumb things, then then
you don't get to number two orthree and I wish more people saw
that, that element of justaction and moving and iterating.
I'm sure you've had a lot ofthat as you've grown feral.
Jimmy (13:06):
Well, if you have a party of 12 people and you have to
buy ice cream for everybody,you're always going to end up
with vanilla, right?
Yeah, there's just no way aroundthat.
That's how we operate.
When there's a lot of peoplethat are involved in the
decision-making, we regress tothe mean.
I think that's just humannature and I think it takes a
(13:27):
lot of courage to push againstthat and show up to the party
with some weird rainbow icecream that maybe some people are
going to like and some peopleare going to love.
But the truth about running asmall business is you don't need
everyone to love you.
You don't need everyone to likeyou.
You just need a few people tolove you.
You just need a narrow part ofthe community to say you know, I
(13:50):
wouldn't consider shoppinganywhere else because I love
those guys, and I think thatthat's, that's what's worked for
us.
That's what I enjoy.
That's what keeps me fired upabout what we do, knowing that
we're painting the picture everyday in a unique way for us yeah
, are you a part of goagrassroots outdoor association
(14:10):
or have you looked at it?
Dale (14:12):
we're not.
Yeah, have you heard about itor?
and maybe yeah maybe it doesn'twork with your model or whatever
, but, um, rick spicer, he runsthe pack rat right and it's.
It's funny, some of the stuffhe was talking about like they.
He very much ran in his naturaldirection of like he would do
adventure.
He was an adventure racer andwhatever and he and his thing
(14:32):
was like look, don't be afraidto specialize.
You can't be everything toeverybody and don't be afraid to
be a little weird.
But it's very much aligningwith a lot of this mindset and
it's good.
I'm glad to have these twoconversations right in a row,
because I feel like this is freecounseling and free consulting
for me as we in our differentbusinesses, though it's easy to
(14:58):
just get boring.
It's easy to get boring and dothings the same way when, as a
20 year old, you know, as in myearly twenties doing the
business because I was soclueless, it was really easy for
me to just be unique and do myown thing.
Outro (15:14):
And.
Dale (15:15):
I think there's a lot of power and you have to
deliberately channel that energy.
Otherwise you say there's a lotof guardrails.
Jimmy (15:22):
you know, you go a few years down and you realize
you're the same as everybodyelse stuck in that gear of
(15:48):
understanding that that's beenworking well and why change and
why stay in the lab, right, butthe truth is the market runs
away from you faster than yousee it and um, I think I think
staying in that like art.
I kind of view it as like anartistic mentality of like
constantly challenging you knoweverything that you're doing.
It's hard to stay in thatmindset if things are going well
, right, if you're, if thingsare great in fourth year.
(16:10):
It's hard to shift.
That takes it takes commitment,but that's that's what I enjoy.
You know, people ask me all thetime why retail, like you know
it's tough, it's not always sexy, you know it's.
I'll tell you why it's tough,it's not always sexy, you know
it's.
Uh, I'll tell you why it'sbecause I have to confront a
unique challenge every day.
(16:31):
That requires creativity,thinking outside of the box, and
I and I love that, I love it'slike being in it.
You know, I would never, I wouldnever say that my job is this
difficult, but I use thisanalogy it's like being a
nursing, an emergency room nurse, where I have no idea what's
coming in the door.
I have no idea what problemsI'm going to have to solve today
(16:53):
and I just I thrive on that.
I love that.
I love the challenge of havingto think critically in ways that
I never would have imagined, ofhaving to think critically in
ways that I never would haveimagined.
And I never want to get stuckin.
I never want my default settingto be this is our system, this
is our process.
I think that's a big deal andthat would be my advice to
(17:17):
people is just stay creative,stay fun.
Dale (17:22):
Yeah, I love that.
I've realized that I thrivemost when I get to solve
problems and when I'm a littlestressed.
That's when I'm the happiest,when I'm a little, you know,
maybe too busy sometimes, when Ihave to like, when I have to
breathe and think okay, how am Igoing to do this, this?
(17:44):
And I've chosen to be anentrepreneur and realizing so I
have to continually give myselfthe pep talk of Dale, this is
what you signed up for and thisis how you prefer it.
So there's no, you're living inthe dream now, and once things
are figured out, it becomes lessof a dream, right?
So continue in that part.
Now.
I love your creative energy.
Creative energy, um, so let'ssee where.
(18:09):
Okay, so what's a thing?
You're eight years into this?
You had 10 years in a corporatejob, like with a legit retailer
, right?
Um, uh, big.
Well, toys are us, and you know, if you're a, toys are us kids,
like you know, it's kind of oneof the biggest retailers in the
States back in the day.
Where?
What's a thing that you maybeknow now about how to run
(18:32):
Ferrell how to run an outdoorretail business that you didn't
think was true?
That's true now, but maybewasn't true.
When you first started, like isthere a thing that surprises
you?
Like I didn't think I wouldhave been doing it this way, or
thought that this would workwhen I started, but now it's
something that that I'veembraced, can you think?
Jimmy (18:55):
is there anything like that?
Yeah, that's easy.
So when, when I first startedFerrell, I imagined Ferrell at
feral I.
I imagined feral as a high-endtechnical retailer, right, just
super technical, technical gear,technical clothing, all the
highest end brands.
That was.
That was what I thought I wouldbe excited about, right,
(19:19):
because if you're an outdoorjunkie, there's always some
level kind of geeking out ontech, right, whether it's the
technical fabric or the new, thenew tent or whatever.
I just kind of imagined myselfbeing that guy constantly
chasing the next innovation andthe highly technical.
I realized very well Ishouldn't say very quickly, I
(19:44):
realized over time that thatwasn't what the community needed
from us.
One that's a very smallcommunity, the highly technical,
you know, mountaineering,climbing, multi-pitch community.
It is a small community, but Icame to discover very quickly
that there was a much biggerneed in our community and that
(20:08):
was around the discussion ofprice.
We were two years in to ourferal journey when Joe and I
who's one of our originalemployees were sitting upstairs
in the the shop and we were justbrainstorming what does our
community need?
What can we do better?
And we were constantlywrestling with this like
(20:32):
frustration around price.
We felt like the industry.
Everything was built aroundthis premium narrative and this
technical narrative.
And you know, with anything,premium, premium goods come with
premium prices and oftenpremium egos.
But you know, we, we just wedidn't love that.
That.
We didn't feel like that wasour community.
(20:53):
And and we, just we one day Idon't remember if it was him or
me we said like, well, thebrands control price for the
most part when we sell new stuff, but they can't control price
when we sell used stuff.
So we went home that night, weemptied our closets.
We, you know, we literallybrought our own stuff into the
(21:13):
shop, put it on a rack, putprices on it that we felt were
fair, and it was all gone inlike two days and and we said,
holy crap, this is what peoplewant.
People want to have a differentconversation around price in
this industry.
And when I opened Ferrell, Ididn't see that, I didn't
(21:35):
understand that.
I didn't expect that to be apart of our model.
I didn't want that to be a partof our model.
Dale (21:41):
Yeah.
Jimmy (21:43):
But when we started to have that conversation with our
community in a real way, thatthat's the information we got in
it.
You know, when we we had onerack of just our stuff, we sold
it quickly and we came up with aquick process to figure out how
we could buy stuff from ourcommunity and and within three
years it was half of our squarefootage Driven truly by just our
(22:06):
community deciding and voting.
This is the feral we want, andso that's what we became.
Dale (22:15):
Yeah, I love it.
Uh, so is that?
Because all of us and I don'twant this to be a long tangent,
but all of us outdoor adventureexplorers, you know being
outdoor nature I think there'san element of frugality and
resourcefulness that is inherentwith what we like to do.
That maybe makes it even moreso that that's a thing in the
(22:37):
outdoor industry compared toother industries.
Is that a thing in the outdoorindustry compared to other
industries?
Jimmy (22:43):
Is that a thing?
Yeah, I'm not sure.
You know.
I always say I'm not apsychologist, but if you're in
retail, you're definitely apart-time sociologist.
You have no choice, becausethat's all retail is.
Is this giant sociologyexperiment?
I would say that part of it is.
There's an environmentalcomponent to it for sure.
I think anyone that interfaceswith the outdoors frequently and
(23:06):
intimately understands theimpact of the consumerism that
we all embrace on some level.
Um, yeah, there's this kind ofyou know anyone that's spent
some time in the outdoorsextensively there's the.
(23:26):
There is this dirt bagmentality right when, uh, we all
really love that piece of gearthat we've had for 20 years and
is patina and worn out.
And I've got a mountain.
My first ever backpacking tentwas a mountain hardware Mountain
Hardware tent that I've now hadfor 20 years and they've tried
(23:47):
to replace it and I won't letthem because I have a connection
to that tent.
So I do think that there issomething deeply seated in the
culture of the outdoor industrythat we've only recently
uncovered with this new circulareconomy and new approach to
trying to keep gear alive.
(24:08):
If the brands are making greatstuff, if they're making high
quality stuff, like they claimto be, then this stuff should
last longer than you know thecycle that a lot of brands are
trying to get us to move on tothe next thing, and I think we
should all embrace that 100%Awesome what I've.
Dale (24:33):
I've been trying to explore management practices and
you said you had like 30, 30employees.
I remember when someoneconvinced me two things.
When they convinced me to starttracking my metrics by like
ratios, like payroll as apercentage of sales, shipping as
a percentage of sales, trackthat and keep those things, it
(24:54):
kind of blew my mind and wasreally helpful because I didn't
know like where, so that wassomething for me that helped a
lot.
Or when I finally got convincedto have like a regular weekly
staff meeting, like reallyregular weekly.
There were certain things thatjust that I found beneficial for
my business, for you knowvariety of reasons.
(25:14):
But is there anything that thatyou feel is a solid helpful?
And this, I guess, goes againstthe creative you you mentioned
earlier like I don't want tohave a standard procedure for
this, that or the other, butthere's things that might be
helpful for a retailer, likemanagement practices that you
(25:35):
feel create a lot of value foryou and your team yeah, I think
for me it's the courage to sayno to good ideas.
Jimmy (25:48):
I think, as a retailer and as a business owner, we have
when you're constantly in thelab, right, you're always
looking for the next great ideathat's going to pivot your
business to the next level.
And I think oftentimes we havea tendency to just say yes to
everything and try everything,and that makes it difficult to
(26:11):
maintain a profitable business,because everything has a cost.
Every yes has a cost.
It's either a financial cost ora time cost.
So I think, having the courageto just say you know, we could
do a million different things,but we can only do a few things
well, and I think the financialway to think about that is you
(26:34):
can only make margin doing a fewthings.
The more you spread yourselfthin, the more you make it
difficult to drive margin into abusiness.
And I think that's what a lotof business owners struggle with
.
Is they chase top line, chaserevenue, chase sales, chase
things, and there's a lot oflevers you can pull to do those
(26:57):
things, but at what cost to thestructure of your business?
The people that work in yourbusiness, um, I think you know,
find two or three things thatyou can just do really well and
and do them better than everyeverybody else, and those, the
businesses that commit to that,tend to be more profitable
(27:18):
because they're not just burningthrough cash trying to chase
every little idea that may ormay not, uh, pan out.
Now, that's not to say don'tstay in the lab, because I think
you have to cut and beradically committed to
challenging all your ideas andall all your preconceived
notions about you run yourbusiness, but ultimately that
doesn't mean you land on 10things to execute, right, that
(27:40):
still should only be a few.
And I think that's what getsmost people in trouble is they
try to do too much.
And that's the best thing youcan do for your team, right?
Because if your team wakes upevery morning not knowing which
Dale they're going to get,what's Dale going to have us
chasing today, you burn them outreal fast.
So I think being radicallycommitted to just doing what you
(28:02):
can do really well the hardestthing to do it truly is the
hardest thing to do.
Dale (28:08):
I feel like you've been talking to previous employees of
mine, or something.
Jimmy (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, because it's hard.
Dale (28:16):
There's a book by Gary Keller he's the real estate guy
Keller Williams called the OneThing and he's like, look,
priorities is not even like.
It used to just be priority, itwasn't pluralized.
You have to choose one thingand it's a whole soundtrack of
reasons why you should doactually exactly what you're
saying.
But we so want to have likethis multifaceted.
(28:40):
You know, multiple prioritiesin a day, lots of different
forks to our strategy.
You know, and, and it's moreexciting and um, or you know, we
think, but I love that.
Uh, yeah, I have to listen tothat.
I'm probably due because I toooften will spread myself too
(29:01):
thin.
Jimmy (29:02):
Yeah, I love the way I think about it is the courage to
say no to good ideas.
Outro (29:09):
And.
Jimmy (29:09):
I, I, you should, you should.
Anytime you say no to a goodidea, you should can feel like
that's a victory because you'rekeeping yourself focused, you
know.
And I, if you, if you ask, askyourself, have I said no to a
good idea in the last few months?
The answer is no, and you're,you're probably spread pretty
thin and you know, multitasking,like the concept of
(29:33):
multitasking, I love becauseit's a myth, right?
Nobody multitasks.
Yeah, anybody that says they'regreat at multitasking, they're
probably just bad at doing anyof those things really well
because they're not focused, youknow.
So, yeah, it's something Ithink about a lot.
You, you say you struggle withit.
We all do, I do, you know it'suh, but I think it's so critical
(29:54):
.
Dale (29:55):
Yeah, Well, and it's good.
At least I know that I strugglewith it and then I can fight
that battle you know Right.
I took yeah, I took social offmy phone years ago.
I took email off my phone twoyears ago and a month ago I took
Safari off my phone.
I still cheat and use Chrome,cause sometimes you have to with
(30:16):
like QR codes.
But it's amazing just how manyplaces our attention can go
without us knowing, and I thinkthe same thing happens can be
put out into our business too.
It's funny.
You say like, hey, which Daleis going to show up in the
business?
Or you know which Jimmy's goingto show up in the business
today.
Man, that's the worst thingever to work for a boss who
(30:39):
isn't consistent and clear intheir approach and who might
bring you know different,different priorities or
different moods, or even worse.
Jimmy (30:48):
One of my, one of my favorite thoughts around this
very topic.
I'm sure you know who BobbyKnight was is was famous
basketball coach, tyrannicalright, had a reputation of being
really difficult, and Iremember an interview with one
of his players.
This was probably 20 years ago.
They asked the player why, why,why, why are you playing for
Bobby Knight?
That's, that's absurd.
(31:08):
Why would you?
There's so many other placesyou can go.
And he said because I walk inevery day and I know exactly who
he's going to be.
And I thought, wow, that'spowerful, that's so great he's
like.
I know who he is, I know what heexpects from me, I know what I
have to do to meet hisexpectations and I'm excited to
(31:32):
go to war with him every day,even though he's so hard on me.
I know exactly who he is, Iknow exactly what I'm going to
get every day and I'll continueto go to battle with him.
And that changed my wholeperspective on what a great
leader can be.
You know, there's a milliondifferent ways to lead, a
(31:56):
million different types ofenergy you can bring, but the
team needs to know who you areand they need to know who you're
going to be tomorrow.
Dale (32:02):
Yeah, I love that Awesome.
Yeah, I've got a good buddy whosold like seven businesses,
really successful and super hardto deal with, like really
intense.
And one of the commenters saidI worked for this guy for two
(32:22):
years, you know way back, and itwas one of the most amazing
professional experiences I'veever had.
And the way that he gets crapdone and like pushes up, you
know that just like.
I think that it's true with himtoo.
He's very consistent in hisapproach and it could be called
tyrannical or whatever, but he'svery consistent and he always
(32:46):
had really great results.
And you know, you look at Stevejobs and there's other these
other people that do amazingthings.
It's not like always thewarmest, fuzziest thing, but I
love your that.
Jimmy (32:58):
That, uh, the focus on just having a clear strategy,
being consistent, the focus onjust having a clear strategy,
being consistent, yeah, awesome,and that's that's not to excuse
bad behavior.
You know Bobby Knight andsometimes other leaders have a
tendency to say well, this isjust who I am, so deal with it.
You know, there's a way totreat people and that's
(33:18):
important.
But I think your team needs toknow every day, when they walk
in, who you are, what yourexpectations are, and I think
that goes a long way.
Dale (33:26):
Yeah, love it.
Awesome.
Any other parting advice thatyou'd like to leave to any of us
, industry, outdoor industryfolks or other retailers?
Jimmy (33:39):
Yeah, I wouldn't be.
I wouldn't be so presumptuousto think that necessarily I have
any particular wisdom that'suseful for anybody of.
If you're an entrepreneur andyou want to start a business or
(34:05):
continue a business and run abusiness, what's the point if
you're not doing it your wayright?
There are so many corporationswhere you could come in and get
nine promotions and build agreat career and have a happy
life and financial freedom.
What is the point of takingthis journey if, when you're 95
(34:27):
years old on your deathbed, youcan't look back and say I'm
proud of how I did that?
because I did it the only way Icould have done it.
No one else could have done itthat way, because that was me.
The money that either works orit doesn't it.
No one else could have done itthat way because that was me.
Um, you know the money and the.
You know that either works orit doesn't.
Um either grow or you don't.
(34:48):
Uh, there's a lot of potentialoutcomes, but I think the only
thing, when it's all said anddone, that really matters is um,
did you serve your community ina way that you're proud of?
Um, because if you didn't, Idon't think anything else is
ultimately going to matter, andthose businesses tend to wash
(35:09):
out pretty quickly regardless.
So you know whoever you are,whatever it is you care about,
just chase your perspective andyour unique talents and put your
fingerprint and you might justchange an industry right, and I
think those are the people thatultimately do.
Dale (35:30):
Love it, Jimmy.
Thanks for taking the time tomeet with me today.
Jimmy (35:35):
Oh, so grateful for the chat, thanks for the time and
thanks for the invite.
Outro (35:41):
Awesome Okay, thanks again, thank you for joining us
on the Adventure Retail Podcast.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep innovating and remember
you're not alone on this retailjourney.
See you on the trail.
Welcome to the Adventure Retail Podcast, your
go-to destination for all thingsoutdoor retail.
Join us as we embark on ajourney through the captivating
world of outdoor gear shops,exploring retail triumphs,
challenges and everything inbetween, from product sourcing
to customer engagementstrategies.
We're here to support andempower outdoor gear retailers
every step of the way.
Dale (00:25):
All right, jimmy, it's great to be here with you today,
great to be here with you.
Thanks for making the time, sowe're going to start with.
I'd love for you to giveeverybody maybe a 90-second
summary of how you got here intothe outdoor industry.
You're eight years in, but whathappened before that to help
(00:46):
you end up where you are.
Jimmy (00:48):
Yeah, so I was in a corporate kind of existence with
Toys R Us and Babies R Us andrest in peace, jeffrey.
But I woke up one day and Ikind of asked myself what would
I do if I wasn't afraid to do it?
And my very next thought was Iwould leave my job tomorrow.
So that was in December of 2015.
(01:10):
And we grand opened in March of2016.
And if you've ever started abusiness, you know how quick
that is.
You know we took the dive andwent to outdoor retailer that
winter to try to get my bearingsand try to learn the industry
and I realized I had absolutelyno idea what I was doing.
But we navigated to a grandopening in March of 2016 in
(01:35):
Denver.
We were in a small space therein Denver for two and a half
years.
We were lucky enough to grow inthe Denver market and move into
a bigger space that we movedinto in 2018.
And we did have a small shop upin Idaho Springs for about five
years and then we migrated thatshop out to the Midwest and
(01:55):
have recently grand opened a newspace in Grand Rapids, michigan
, actually just two weeks ago.
So that's been the, I guess,the brief evolution of my
journey with Ferrell, startingback in 2016.
Dale (02:10):
Okay, so tell me why.
Where did you get the nameFerrell?
Jimmy (02:15):
I love this question because it's precisely why I
chose the name right?
So there's this history ofoutdoor gear shops throughout
the country being named TacomaOutfitters or San Francisco
Outdoors or whatever Right?
So that's the easy thing to do,but it just didn't feel
authentic to me and it didn'treally jump off the page and we
(02:38):
dabbled with names like that.
But I wanted a name that wouldcatch you and would result in
one remembering it because it'sunique.
But also I wanted it to reallycatch people off guard and make
them think for a second Likewhat is that all about?
But the word itselfetymologically means to escape
from domestication and becomewild.
(02:59):
And just when I read that, Iwas like that's exactly what we
want to do.
We want to get people outside.
We want to get people out ofthe house on the trail, in the
mountains, escaping from theirnormal life.
And just the definition of thatword really spoke to why not
only what we wanted to do, butwhy I was choosing to take the
(03:20):
path.
And it just worked.
And and also there's pragmaticparts to everything.
Right, we wanted to own a word,and if you've ever owned a
business, you know how importantSEO is, things like that and I
wanted a word that wasn't reallyused normally in business
circles.
So when you Google it or youuse it, like you know, just
(03:40):
immediately the results comeback and send you in the right
direction.
Dale (03:46):
Yeah, escape domestication ?
I didn't.
I kind of knew like feral wildanimal, I didn't.
I didn't know the exactdefinition.
So that's so you.
You became feral as you leftyour desk job.
You were feral and likeescaping domestication of the
big box corporate to go out onyour own escaping domestication
(04:06):
of the big box corporate to goout on your own.
Jimmy (04:09):
Yeah, it was.
It was.
It truly spoke to why I wasdoing the whole thing to begin
with.
You know to include, you knowto include like my journey.
You know that was part of it,but also just what I cared about
.
I've always been passionateabout getting people outside.
I've always been passionateabout getting people outside.
I've always been the guydragging people out to the trail
.
And when I, you know, didresearch into trying to figure
(04:33):
out the name and I saw thatdefinition it was, it was
immediate, I said that's it,yeah man I love and most people
listening won't be able to goand rebrand um so easily.
Dale (04:44):
I guess they, they, you know they can um, but you're
starting this with a whole otherperspective.
Uh, you're not jumping into itwith just the sole perspective
of I'm going to open oneconsignment shop in, you know,
in Denver, and that's my lifeand I'm going to retire here.
And you know, you kind of leftthe door open for it to become
(05:06):
what it could become.
Jimmy (05:08):
Yeah, with any business I think you've experienced this
and I'm sure most small businessowners that have scaled at all
have experienced this the thingbecomes its own thing.
You know, in many ways feral Idon't have the reins the same
way I did back in 2018, right,the monster starts to eat in
(05:30):
ways you don't expect and youthink you've got control of it,
and sometimes you do andsometimes you don't, and I've
always, over the last four orfive years, I've had the
mentality of trying to stay outof the way sometimes and letting
the community drive what it isthat we should be doing.
You know, we very much tried tokeep the mindset of our job is
(05:56):
to constantly be renewing oursocial license to operate.
Right, that's the term I loveto use which is when your
customers come in every day,they're deciding whether or not
they're renewing your license tooperate.
You may not think of it in thatterms, and I think the best way
to stay in front of that isjust to constantly be thinking
about what it is they need fromyou.
(06:19):
You know what?
What is it?
Uh, how can we be serving ourcommunity today?
That's different than it wastwo years ago and, ultimately,
that's a big part of why westarted selling used gear two
years into into the adventurewas just in, like just being
maniacally connected to what wewere hearing and what people
(06:39):
wanted.
So I think, yeah, thatsometimes you have to drive and
sometimes you have to bevulnerable enough to just get
out of the way and let thebusiness and the community drive
your decisions, and I thinkthat that's been a big part of
our journey for the last fewyears.
Dale (07:00):
Let the business become feral.
I won't keep making those,these bad jokes, but I love it.
I'm really loving that.
Uh, escaping domestication,that's like a super cool um,
that's cool imagery and, and youcould have yeah, I'm I'm sure
you're already leveraging thebrand um in in some of those
(07:25):
ways, but you know, I'd wear aferal t-shirt and, yeah, it's
super cool.
It became very obvious, talkingto you for the first 20 minutes
before we started recording,that you are more strategic than
the next guy and maybe I'm justcomparing you to myself or you
know whatever, but but I wasreally.
But I was really um.
(07:50):
No, it was impressive to seehow your mind worked and even
just in choosing your name right, there's a good amount of
thought.
So if you were going to coach aretailer, you know for 10
minutes, you know I'm, I'm yourshop down the street when it
comes to you know my, mybusiness strategy, street when
it comes to.
You know my business strategyand this probably isn't a great
question, but, like, what aresome of the things you'd share
(08:11):
in?
Maybe how you'd look at anotherretail business that maybe
other people aren't getting,because you also have this
insight from not coming from theindustry.
Jimmy (08:22):
Right.
Yeah, I think the mostimportant thing, there's two
ways to think about it.
One way is is this somethingyou want to continue to do or is
it something you want to build?
You want to build the exitstrategy in right, because
there's a lot of people thatstart businesses with the intent
to exit at some point become anacquisition.
(08:43):
But I'm going to operate underthe assumption that we're
talking to people that want tobe lifers.
Right, they want to buildsomething that they continue to
be a part of.
And if that's the case, if youwant to stay along for the
entire journey, it has to bebuilt in a way to keep you
filled up, your energy, yourexcitement.
It has to be something you'reproud to do and you're excited
to do, because if it's not, youfilled up your energy, your
(09:04):
excitement, you have to.
It has to be something you'reproud to do and you're excited
to do, because, if it's not,every small business owner is a
single point of failure and ifyou wake up one morning and
you've decided that it no longerfills you up, the party's over
for everybody.
Right, and I think so manytimes we lose sight of that.
I lost sight of it, admittedly,you know, a couple of years,
(09:31):
and then I had, I had, to stepback and and reconfigure my
relationship with the businessand understand how can, how can
I continue to drive this forwardin a way that I'm excited about
, I'm proud of it, thecommunity's proud of it, and I
have the relationships I need inthis business.
So, any, any time I have thatconversation, I always.
I always ask them is thissomething that you want to
continue to be a part of and, ifso, how do you build a healthy
(09:53):
relationship with it and how doyou build it in a way that
you're proud to keep doing whatyou're doing?
That's a deal breaker, becauseif that, if you ever lose that,
then the game's over before yourealize it.
You know you're just biding,biding your time.
The game's over before yourealize it.
You know you're just bidingyour time.
I think that's core andcritical.
The other thing is and this iskind of in the same vein is do
(10:15):
it in a way that's authentic toyou and do it the way you want
to do it, because if your ideastruly are bad, the market's
undefeated, right, and you'lllearn that quickly.
But you know a lot of peoplethat work in a corporate
environment, which I did for 10years.
The big gripe they have is it'sreally difficult to be creative
(10:36):
in that kind of environment,right, there's rules and
structure and scaffolding andit's hard to break away from
that.
Try new ideas and do thosethings.
If you're going to start asmall business, lean into the
beauty of what a small businessand entrepreneurial journey
offers, which is precisely thatan opportunity to really put
(10:56):
your fingerprint on the businessand the entity that you're
running.
So do it your way, do it.
Do it in a way that truly leansinto your own creativity.
There are these rails, right Inevery industry that people tend
to fall right into and just endup several miles down the track
before they realize they'relike everybody else in the
(11:19):
market.
That's not fun, that's notunique, that's not creative,
that's not really introducinganything fun to the universe,
right?
So if I think about, you know,renewing our social license to
operate, I constantly thinkabout why are we different?
Why do we deserve to be here?
And if the if the answer isever well, I don't know then we
(11:41):
probably shouldn't be doing itanymore, right?
So I think being brave enoughto just say I think my ideas are
great and I'm going to executeon those ideas, pass or fail.
I wish more business ownerswould do that.
Dale (12:01):
I love that We've talked.
I own Grand Trunk with twoother partners.
My brother and we've workedtogether for a long time so we
pretty much work as a.
You know, we've worked prettyclosely together.
And then our other partner, whoactually he started and he
founded Campsaber, soCampsabercom Andy Stroman is his
name really sharp, it's reallysharp and we actually we get
(12:23):
along really well.
We're all.
We're a pretty strongpartnership.
But I've found the more peoplethat you have to discuss your
ideas with it might be goodbecause you might save yourself
from making doing some of thedumb things.
But sometimes the dumb stuff,the second iteration of the dumb
thing is really good, or likethe third where.
(12:46):
But if you can't do some of thefirst dumb things, then then
you don't get to number two orthree and I wish more people saw
that, that element of justaction and moving and iterating.
I'm sure you've had a lot ofthat as you've grown feral.
Jimmy (13:06):
Well, if you have a party of 12 people and you have to
buy ice cream for everybody,you're always going to end up
with vanilla, right?
Yeah, there's just no way aroundthat.
That's how we operate.
When there's a lot of peoplethat are involved in the
decision-making, we regress tothe mean.
I think that's just humannature and I think it takes a
(13:27):
lot of courage to push againstthat and show up to the party
with some weird rainbow icecream that maybe some people are
going to like and some peopleare going to love.
But the truth about running asmall business is you don't need
everyone to love you.
You don't need everyone to likeyou.
You just need a few people tolove you.
You just need a narrow part ofthe community to say you know, I
(13:50):
wouldn't consider shoppinganywhere else because I love
those guys, and I think thatthat's, that's what's worked for
us.
That's what I enjoy.
That's what keeps me fired upabout what we do, knowing that
we're painting the picture everyday in a unique way for us yeah
, are you a part of goagrassroots outdoor association
(14:10):
or have you looked at it?
Dale (14:12):
we're not.
Yeah, have you heard about itor?
and maybe yeah maybe it doesn'twork with your model or whatever
, but, um, rick spicer, he runsthe pack rat right and it's.
It's funny, some of the stuffhe was talking about like they.
He very much ran in his naturaldirection of like he would do
adventure.
He was an adventure racer andwhatever and he and his thing
(14:32):
was like look, don't be afraidto specialize.
You can't be everything toeverybody and don't be afraid to
be a little weird.
But it's very much aligningwith a lot of this mindset and
it's good.
I'm glad to have these twoconversations right in a row,
because I feel like this is freecounseling and free consulting
for me as we in our differentbusinesses, though it's easy to
(14:58):
just get boring.
It's easy to get boring and dothings the same way when, as a
20 year old, you know, as in myearly twenties doing the
business because I was soclueless, it was really easy for
me to just be unique and do myown thing.
Outro (15:14):
And.
Dale (15:15):
I think there's a lot of power and you have to
deliberately channel that energy.
Otherwise you say there's a lotof guardrails.
Jimmy (15:22):
you know, you go a few years down and you realize
you're the same as everybodyelse stuck in that gear of
(15:48):
understanding that that's beenworking well and why change and
why stay in the lab, right, butthe truth is the market runs
away from you faster than yousee it and um, I think I think
staying in that like art.
I kind of view it as like anartistic mentality of like
constantly challenging you knoweverything that you're doing.
It's hard to stay in thatmindset if things are going well
, right, if you're, if thingsare great in fourth year.
(16:10):
It's hard to shift.
That takes it takes commitment,but that's that's what I enjoy.
You know, people ask me all thetime why retail, like you know
it's tough, it's not always sexy, you know it's.
I'll tell you why it's tough,it's not always sexy, you know
it's.
Uh, I'll tell you why it'sbecause I have to confront a
unique challenge every day.
(16:31):
That requires creativity,thinking outside of the box, and
I and I love that, I love it'slike being in it.
You know, I would never, I wouldnever say that my job is this
difficult, but I use thisanalogy it's like being a
nursing, an emergency room nurse, where I have no idea what's
coming in the door.
I have no idea what problemsI'm going to have to solve today
(16:53):
and I just I thrive on that.
I love that.
I love the challenge of havingto think critically in ways that
I never would have imagined, ofhaving to think critically in
ways that I never would haveimagined.
And I never want to get stuckin.
I never want my default settingto be this is our system, this
is our process.
I think that's a big deal andthat would be my advice to
(17:17):
people is just stay creative,stay fun.
Dale (17:22):
Yeah, I love that.
I've realized that I thrivemost when I get to solve
problems and when I'm a littlestressed.
That's when I'm the happiest,when I'm a little, you know,
maybe too busy sometimes, when Ihave to like, when I have to
breathe and think okay, how am Igoing to do this, this?
(17:44):
And I've chosen to be anentrepreneur and realizing so I
have to continually give myselfthe pep talk of Dale, this is
what you signed up for and thisis how you prefer it.
So there's no, you're living inthe dream now, and once things
are figured out, it becomes lessof a dream, right?
So continue in that part.
Now.
I love your creative energy.
Creative energy, um, so let'ssee where.
(18:09):
Okay, so what's a thing?
You're eight years into this?
You had 10 years in a corporatejob, like with a legit retailer
, right?
Um, uh, big.
Well, toys are us, and you know, if you're a, toys are us kids,
like you know, it's kind of oneof the biggest retailers in the
States back in the day.
Where?
What's a thing that you maybeknow now about how to run
(18:32):
Ferrell how to run an outdoorretail business that you didn't
think was true?
That's true now, but maybewasn't true.
When you first started, like isthere a thing that surprises
you?
Like I didn't think I wouldhave been doing it this way, or
thought that this would workwhen I started, but now it's
something that that I'veembraced, can you think?
Jimmy (18:55):
is there anything like that?
Yeah, that's easy.
So when, when I first startedFerrell, I imagined Ferrell at
feral I.
I imagined feral as a high-endtechnical retailer, right, just
super technical, technical gear,technical clothing, all the
highest end brands.
That was.
That was what I thought I wouldbe excited about, right,
(19:19):
because if you're an outdoorjunkie, there's always some
level kind of geeking out ontech, right, whether it's the
technical fabric or the new, thenew tent or whatever.
I just kind of imagined myselfbeing that guy constantly
chasing the next innovation andthe highly technical.
I realized very well Ishouldn't say very quickly, I
(19:44):
realized over time that thatwasn't what the community needed
from us.
One that's a very smallcommunity, the highly technical,
you know, mountaineering,climbing, multi-pitch community.
It is a small community, but Icame to discover very quickly
that there was a much biggerneed in our community and that
(20:08):
was around the discussion ofprice.
We were two years in to ourferal journey when Joe and I
who's one of our originalemployees were sitting upstairs
in the the shop and we were justbrainstorming what does our
community need?
What can we do better?
And we were constantlywrestling with this like
(20:32):
frustration around price.
We felt like the industry.
Everything was built aroundthis premium narrative and this
technical narrative.
And you know, with anything,premium, premium goods come with
premium prices and oftenpremium egos.
But you know, we, we just wedidn't love that.
That.
We didn't feel like that wasour community.
(20:53):
And and we, just we one day Idon't remember if it was him or
me we said like, well, thebrands control price for the
most part when we sell new stuff, but they can't control price
when we sell used stuff.
So we went home that night, weemptied our closets.
We, you know, we literallybrought our own stuff into the
(21:13):
shop, put it on a rack, putprices on it that we felt were
fair, and it was all gone inlike two days and and we said,
holy crap, this is what peoplewant.
People want to have a differentconversation around price in
this industry.
And when I opened Ferrell, Ididn't see that, I didn't
(21:35):
understand that.
I didn't expect that to be apart of our model.
I didn't want that to be a partof our model.
Dale (21:41):
Yeah.
Jimmy (21:43):
But when we started to have that conversation with our
community in a real way, thatthat's the information we got in
it.
You know, when we we had onerack of just our stuff, we sold
it quickly and we came up with aquick process to figure out how
we could buy stuff from ourcommunity and and within three
years it was half of our squarefootage Driven truly by just our
(22:06):
community deciding and voting.
This is the feral we want, andso that's what we became.
Dale (22:15):
Yeah, I love it.
Uh, so is that?
Because all of us and I don'twant this to be a long tangent,
but all of us outdoor adventureexplorers, you know being
outdoor nature I think there'san element of frugality and
resourcefulness that is inherentwith what we like to do.
That maybe makes it even moreso that that's a thing in the
(22:37):
outdoor industry compared toother industries.
Is that a thing in the outdoorindustry compared to other
industries?
Jimmy (22:43):
Is that a thing?
Yeah, I'm not sure.
You know.
I always say I'm not apsychologist, but if you're in
retail, you're definitely apart-time sociologist.
You have no choice, becausethat's all retail is.
Is this giant sociologyexperiment?
I would say that part of it is.
There's an environmentalcomponent to it for sure.
I think anyone that interfaceswith the outdoors frequently and
(23:06):
intimately understands theimpact of the consumerism that
we all embrace on some level.
Um, yeah, there's this kind ofyou know anyone that's spent
some time in the outdoorsextensively there's the.
(23:26):
There is this dirt bagmentality right when, uh, we all
really love that piece of gearthat we've had for 20 years and
is patina and worn out.
And I've got a mountain.
My first ever backpacking tentwas a mountain hardware Mountain
Hardware tent that I've now hadfor 20 years and they've tried
(23:47):
to replace it and I won't letthem because I have a connection
to that tent.
So I do think that there issomething deeply seated in the
culture of the outdoor industrythat we've only recently
uncovered with this new circulareconomy and new approach to
trying to keep gear alive.
(24:08):
If the brands are making greatstuff, if they're making high
quality stuff, like they claimto be, then this stuff should
last longer than you know thecycle that a lot of brands are
trying to get us to move on tothe next thing, and I think we
should all embrace that 100%Awesome what I've.
Dale (24:33):
I've been trying to explore management practices and
you said you had like 30, 30employees.
I remember when someoneconvinced me two things.
When they convinced me to starttracking my metrics by like
ratios, like payroll as apercentage of sales, shipping as
a percentage of sales, trackthat and keep those things, it
(24:54):
kind of blew my mind and wasreally helpful because I didn't
know like where, so that wassomething for me that helped a
lot.
Or when I finally got convincedto have like a regular weekly
staff meeting, like reallyregular weekly.
There were certain things thatjust that I found beneficial for
my business, for you knowvariety of reasons.
(25:14):
But is there anything that thatyou feel is a solid helpful?
And this, I guess, goes againstthe creative you you mentioned
earlier like I don't want tohave a standard procedure for
this, that or the other, butthere's things that might be
helpful for a retailer, likemanagement practices that you
(25:35):
feel create a lot of value foryou and your team yeah, I think
for me it's the courage to sayno to good ideas.
Jimmy (25:48):
I think, as a retailer and as a business owner, we have
when you're constantly in thelab, right, you're always
looking for the next great ideathat's going to pivot your
business to the next level.
And I think oftentimes we havea tendency to just say yes to
everything and try everything,and that makes it difficult to
(26:11):
maintain a profitable business,because everything has a cost.
Every yes has a cost.
It's either a financial cost ora time cost.
So I think, having the courageto just say you know, we could
do a million different things,but we can only do a few things
well, and I think the financialway to think about that is you
(26:34):
can only make margin doing a fewthings.
The more you spread yourselfthin, the more you make it
difficult to drive margin into abusiness.
And I think that's what a lotof business owners struggle with
.
Is they chase top line, chaserevenue, chase sales, chase
things, and there's a lot oflevers you can pull to do those
(26:57):
things, but at what cost to thestructure of your business?
The people that work in yourbusiness, um, I think you know,
find two or three things thatyou can just do really well and
and do them better than everyeverybody else, and those, the
businesses that commit to that,tend to be more profitable
(27:18):
because they're not just burningthrough cash trying to chase
every little idea that may ormay not, uh, pan out.
Now, that's not to say don'tstay in the lab, because I think
you have to cut and beradically committed to
challenging all your ideas andall all your preconceived
notions about you run yourbusiness, but ultimately that
doesn't mean you land on 10things to execute, right, that
(27:40):
still should only be a few.
And I think that's what getsmost people in trouble is they
try to do too much.
And that's the best thing youcan do for your team, right?
Because if your team wakes upevery morning not knowing which
Dale they're going to get,what's Dale going to have us
chasing today, you burn them outreal fast.
So I think being radicallycommitted to just doing what you
(28:02):
can do really well the hardestthing to do it truly is the
hardest thing to do.
Dale (28:08):
I feel like you've been talking to previous employees of
mine, or something.
Jimmy (28:11):
Yeah, yeah, because it's hard.
Dale (28:16):
There's a book by Gary Keller he's the real estate guy
Keller Williams called the OneThing and he's like, look,
priorities is not even like.
It used to just be priority, itwasn't pluralized.
You have to choose one thingand it's a whole soundtrack of
reasons why you should doactually exactly what you're
saying.
But we so want to have likethis multifaceted.
(28:40):
You know, multiple prioritiesin a day, lots of different
forks to our strategy.
You know, and, and it's moreexciting and um, or you know, we
think, but I love that.
Uh, yeah, I have to listen tothat.
I'm probably due because I toooften will spread myself too
(29:01):
thin.
Jimmy (29:02):
Yeah, I love the way I think about it is the courage to
say no to good ideas.
Outro (29:09):
And.
Jimmy (29:09):
I, I, you should, you should.
Anytime you say no to a goodidea, you should can feel like
that's a victory because you'rekeeping yourself focused, you
know.
And I, if you, if you ask, askyourself, have I said no to a
good idea in the last few months?
The answer is no, and you're,you're probably spread pretty
thin and you know, multitasking,like the concept of
(29:33):
multitasking, I love becauseit's a myth, right?
Nobody multitasks.
Yeah, anybody that says they'regreat at multitasking, they're
probably just bad at doing anyof those things really well
because they're not focused, youknow.
So, yeah, it's something Ithink about a lot.
You, you say you struggle withit.
We all do, I do, you know it'suh, but I think it's so critical
(29:54):
.
Dale (29:55):
Yeah, Well, and it's good.
At least I know that I strugglewith it and then I can fight
that battle you know Right.
I took yeah, I took social offmy phone years ago.
I took email off my phone twoyears ago and a month ago I took
Safari off my phone.
I still cheat and use Chrome,cause sometimes you have to with
(30:16):
like QR codes.
But it's amazing just how manyplaces our attention can go
without us knowing, and I thinkthe same thing happens can be
put out into our business too.
It's funny.
You say like, hey, which Daleis going to show up in the
business?
Or you know which Jimmy's goingto show up in the business
today.
Man, that's the worst thingever to work for a boss who
(30:39):
isn't consistent and clear intheir approach and who might
bring you know different,different priorities or
different moods, or even worse.
Jimmy (30:48):
One of my, one of my favorite thoughts around this
very topic.
I'm sure you know who BobbyKnight was is was famous
basketball coach, tyrannicalright, had a reputation of being
really difficult, and Iremember an interview with one
of his players.
This was probably 20 years ago.
They asked the player why, why,why, why are you playing for
Bobby Knight?
That's, that's absurd.
(31:08):
Why would you?
There's so many other placesyou can go.
And he said because I walk inevery day and I know exactly who
he's going to be.
And I thought, wow, that'spowerful, that's so great he's
like.
I know who he is, I know what heexpects from me, I know what I
have to do to meet hisexpectations and I'm excited to
(31:32):
go to war with him every day,even though he's so hard on me.
I know exactly who he is, Iknow exactly what I'm going to
get every day and I'll continueto go to battle with him.
And that changed my wholeperspective on what a great
leader can be.
You know, there's a milliondifferent ways to lead, a
(31:56):
million different types ofenergy you can bring, but the
team needs to know who you areand they need to know who you're
going to be tomorrow.
Dale (32:02):
Yeah, I love that Awesome.
Yeah, I've got a good buddy whosold like seven businesses,
really successful and super hardto deal with, like really
intense.
And one of the commenters saidI worked for this guy for two
(32:22):
years, you know way back, and itwas one of the most amazing
professional experiences I'veever had.
And the way that he gets crapdone and like pushes up, you
know that just like.
I think that it's true with himtoo.
He's very consistent in hisapproach and it could be called
tyrannical or whatever, but he'svery consistent and he always
(32:46):
had really great results.
And you know, you look at Stevejobs and there's other these
other people that do amazingthings.
It's not like always thewarmest, fuzziest thing, but I
love your that.
Jimmy (32:58):
That, uh, the focus on just having a clear strategy,
being consistent, the focus onjust having a clear strategy,
being consistent, yeah, awesome,and that's that's not to excuse
bad behavior.
You know Bobby Knight andsometimes other leaders have a
tendency to say well, this isjust who I am, so deal with it.
You know, there's a way totreat people and that's
(33:18):
important.
But I think your team needs toknow every day, when they walk
in, who you are, what yourexpectations are, and I think
that goes a long way.
Dale (33:26):
Yeah, love it.
Awesome.
Any other parting advice thatyou'd like to leave to any of us
, industry, outdoor industryfolks or other retailers?
Jimmy (33:39):
Yeah, I wouldn't be.
I wouldn't be so presumptuousto think that necessarily I have
any particular wisdom that'suseful for anybody of.
If you're an entrepreneur andyou want to start a business or
(34:05):
continue a business and run abusiness, what's the point if
you're not doing it your wayright?
There are so many corporationswhere you could come in and get
nine promotions and build agreat career and have a happy
life and financial freedom.
What is the point of takingthis journey if, when you're 95
(34:27):
years old on your deathbed, youcan't look back and say I'm
proud of how I did that?
because I did it the only way Icould have done it.
No one else could have done itthat way, because that was me.
The money that either works orit doesn't it.
No one else could have done itthat way because that was me.
Um, you know the money and the.
You know that either works orit doesn't.
Um either grow or you don't.
(34:48):
Uh, there's a lot of potentialoutcomes, but I think the only
thing, when it's all said anddone, that really matters is um,
did you serve your community ina way that you're proud of?
Um, because if you didn't, Idon't think anything else is
ultimately going to matter, andthose businesses tend to wash
(35:09):
out pretty quickly regardless.
So you know whoever you are,whatever it is you care about,
just chase your perspective andyour unique talents and put your
fingerprint and you might justchange an industry right, and I
think those are the people thatultimately do.
Dale (35:30):
Love it, Jimmy.
Thanks for taking the time tomeet with me today.
Jimmy (35:35):
Oh, so grateful for the chat, thanks for the time and
thanks for the invite.
Outro (35:41):
Awesome Okay, thanks again, thank you for joining us
on the Adventure Retail Podcast.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep innovating and remember
you're not alone on this retailjourney.
See you on the trail.
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