October 10, 2024 • 44 mins
Discover the compelling journey of Deirdre Fitzgerald, President of International for Knitwell Group, as she takes you through her inspiring career in retail. From her initial days at Bloomingdale's through her transformative experiences at New Balance, Deirdre's path is marked by pivotal moments that shaped her into the leader she is today. Tune in to hear how a passion for retail blossomed from her background in English literature to her dynamic roles across cosmetics and men's apparel confirmed her calling in this vibrant industry.
Unearth the delicate interplay of art and science that defines retail merchandising today. Deirdre shares her expertise on balancing intuition with data-driven insights, offering a fresh take on making informed product and consumer decisions. As traditional training programs like Bloomingdale's fade, we explore new strategies for nurturing talent and the critical role of localization in global markets. Discover the unique challenges faced by merchants and the evolving role they play in shaping the future of retail.
Gain strategic insights into navigating the retail landscape with a focus on consumer behavior, inventory management, and the balance between online and brick-and-mortar experiences. Deirdre generously imparts career advice, underscoring the importance of long-term thinking, effective leadership, and embracing failure as a powerful learning tool. Highlighting the value of mentorship and team development, she emphasizes the significance of personal growth, continuous learning, and the strength of individual relationships. Join us as we wrap up with Deirdre's refreshing perspective on leadership, life inspirations, and the camaraderie that fuels success in this ever-evolving industry.
Biography: DEIRDRE FITZGERALD
Deirdre FitzGerald is the President of International for KnitWell Group a dominant portfolio of women’s specialty retail brands including Ann Taylor, Chico’s, Lane Bryant, LOFT, Soma, Talbots, and White House Black Market, that together generate more than $6 Billion in sales annually. In her role Deirdre leads the development and implementation of growth strategies designed to expand the value and reach of the brands through strategic partnerships domestically and internationally.
Previously, Deirdre served as President of the Talbots brand, an iconic American apparel retailer with more than 500 stores across the United States as well as an online business that together generate more than $1.2 billion in sales annually. As President, in partnership with her leadership team, she created stability amidst the pandemic and restored financial growth and profitability to the brand.
Prior to Talbots, Deirdre spent seven years with New Balance where she served as the Executive Vice President of Global Apparel and Licensing. In her role she led the transformation of the Global Apparel design, Innovation, Product management, Merchandising, and Licensing teams, resulting in a period of unprecedented growth and profitability.
Earlier in her career Deirdre spent nearly a decade with the Talbots brand, ultimately serving as the Executive Vice President and General Merchandise Manager for Talbots and she also served as the Head of Men's Apparel at J. Crew and in various merchandising roles at Brooks Brothers. Deirdre began her career at Bloomingdales’ where she completed their executive training program.
Deirdre is committed to supporting women and is a member of the Global Board of Directors for Dress for Success, an organization dedicated to empowering women. She is also on the Advisory Board for the Hingham Historical Society and the Board of Directors for Repurpose for a Purpose.
Deirdre holds a BA in English Literature from Hamilton College.
Profile:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdre-fitzgerald-25653b8/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rich (00:00):
So I'm excited for you guys.
I know Paul is going to be onmute for part of this, but I'm
excited to have Deirdre onRetail Relates today.
Gautham (00:09):
I'm looking forward to this conversation, which is it's
always good to see someonewho's risen up through the ranks
, always with a merchandisingfocus and with all the
conversations around productassortment and product mix,
around product assortment andproduct mix, it will be great to
hear her take on how they viewinnovation within the context of
products and merchandise.
Look forward to thisconversation.
Rich (00:32):
We are excited to welcome Deirdre Fitzgerald to the
program today.
Deirdre is the president ofInternational for Knitwell Group
, a powerhouse portfolio ofwomen's specialty retail brands
which includes Ann Taylor,chico's Lane Bryant, loft, soma,
talbot's and White House BlackMarket, together generating over
$6 billion in sales annually.
(00:53):
With a remarkable careerspanning over three decades,
deirdre has significantlyinfluenced the retail industry
through her strategic leadershipand innovative growth strategy.
She previously served as thepresident of the Talbots brand,
steering it towards financialgrowth and stability during
challenging times.
Prior to joining Talbots,deirdre held executive roles at
(01:13):
New Balance and JCrew and BrooksBrothers, showcasing her
diverse global apparelmerchandising and brand
management expertise.
She's also an active communityleader, involved in initiatives
such as Dress for Success andserving on the boards of Hingham
Historical Society andRepurpose for a Purpose.
For those interested inDeirdre's extensive journey and
(01:35):
contributions to retail, herfull biography is available on
our show link.
Paula (01:40):
Deirdre Fitzgerald, thank you so much for being on the
show.
We're so honored to have youhere, especially someone with
such incredible brands undertheir name.
Oh, I'm thrilled to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Let's start off with a littlebit about your journey.
So we're going to post your bioin the show notes.
So we don't want to hear aboutthat.
We want to hear about yourthree pivotal moments in your
(02:01):
career.
So what are the three mostpivotal moments in your career?
So what are the three mostpivotal moments in your career
that, or your life, have led youto where you are today?
Deirdre (02:07):
Yeah, that's gonna be hard to get it to three, but I
guess if I, if I were on adesert island and had to narrow
it down to three, I thinkprobably joining Bloomingdale's,
you know, out of college andgetting into that training
program and being a part of that.
I spent 12 years in New Yorkbut ultimately the decision to
(02:28):
leave New York, move to Bostonand become a part of what now is
Knitwell Group was prettypivotal.
And then joining New Balance.
So I spent time at New Balanceand that was really an
eye-opening experience as far aswhat it means to be a part of a
global brand.
If I think, practicallyspeaking, when you go through
(02:52):
your career.
I think when you first becomeresponsible for a business is
pretty pivotal, and then, muchfurther down the road, when you
shift from functional expertiseto enterprise leader, that is a
real, real pivot and Rich I knowyou have experienced that but
that is definitely that's a bigmove that requires a lot of
(03:13):
energy and it's very rewarding.
Gautham (03:15):
What does that big move entail?
Moving from a functional leaderto leading an entire
corporation?
Deirdre (03:23):
Typically, when you sit on a senior leadership team,
you really are responsible foroversight, guidance,
participation in the fullenterprise and up until that
point, you've typically been theleader of your function.
So you're advocating for thatfunction, you're pushing for
that function, and it forces youto prioritize and really think
(03:47):
about the different teams andthe different capabilities that
exist within an organization.
It's great, it's fun, but a lotof people aren't prepared for
it, so it takes quite a bit oflearning.
Paula (04:00):
So did you set out wanting to go into retail.
So is this what you initiallyenvisioned?
And if not, what was youroriginal?
Deirdre (04:07):
Yeah, yes and no, yes and no.
So I majored in Englishliterature in school, so if that
would probably suggest that Ididn't set out to pursue a
career in retail.
But, that being said, I alwaysloved it and I wanted to be a
buyer.
I had summer jobs working inboutiques and had a taste of
retail.
But it really came down toshould I should I go to law
(04:29):
school, which is what my myparents probably would have
preferred, or should I should Igo into retail?
You know, and ultimately it wasthe first job at Bloomingdale's
that kind of secured it for me,but it definitely was always
something I wanted and I don'tthink I really knew how to get
there until I was fortunateenough to be part of the
(04:49):
training program.
Paula (04:50):
So that's interesting.
So what was it aboutBloomingdale's that secured it
for you?
Was it the training program orwas it just the experience?
Deirdre (04:57):
Yeah, it was a very developed training program where
there was a rhythm and therewas training and there was a, I
guess, a pretty explicit careerpath.
So you would start and what wasreally special about it is that
you spend time working instores and working in the buying
(05:17):
office, and so the programtoggled back and forth and I
also had experiences in a ton ofdifferent categories.
So I was in cosmetics, I was inkids, I was in men's and so
also had experiences in a ton ofdifferent categories.
So I was in cosmetics, I was inkids, I was in men's, and so
your experience and yourperspective was constantly
changing.
It was fast paced, it wasdynamic, so it was great and it
was an incredible training.
Paula (05:36):
Yeah, that sounds great.
The clarity and the directionand then also the diversity of
the training.
Yeah, yeah, you couldn't askfor a better start.
So you've got a long history ofsuccesses, which we will
highlight in the show notes, butis there a particular?
I mean, you are very impressivewoman.
Deirdre (05:52):
I'm very honored to be.
Paula (05:58):
Is there a particular failure that stands out as a
lesson learned that you wouldgive to other people?
Deirdre (06:11):
I don't.
To be honest, I don't there's alot to choose from and I don't
I wouldn't say that one standsout.
You know, probably, I guessprobably, what I would say is
there will be many, there aremany, there will be many.
It's not fatal and everybodyfails and you know, probably my
best failure is yet to come.
But really I think if you lookat it and you're like what did I
learn?
What mistake did I make?
Did I step away from thecustomer?
(06:32):
Did I stop listening?
Did I go back to the well toomuch?
You know all of these thingskind of build your perspective
and build your capabilities.
So you know it's win or learn.
So you know it's win or learn.
Rich (06:43):
How challenging was it to move from kind of jumping in the
fray and brainstorming andbuilding to leading a group
doing that and do you findyourself having to kind of pull
yourself back from wanting tojump into the mix to build
something?
Deirdre (07:02):
Yeah, you know that's a good question and, rich, I
expect that you feel this way.
One of the most importantthings is to know when to step
in and when not to step in.
And you know, as a leader, youalways have to enable whatever
you can do to enable.
But you also have to meetpeople where they are and
understand when you can be at30,000 feet, when you can be at
(07:23):
15, when you need to dip down toone.
And it's that ability or notability requirement to
constantly recalibrate andchange your altitude depending
on the team that I think issuper important as you progress
throughout your career.
They probably tell me to getout of it, rich.
Rich (07:41):
I was going to say do you have what I have?
We have team huddles everythree or four weeks and we play
a game of what did Rich say,what did he mean?
And did he actually say that?
Because I find I get credit fora lot of things that I didn't
really say.
Deirdre (07:55):
Yeah.
Rich (07:55):
So we have to sift through it.
Deirdre (07:57):
Yeah, yeah.
I found out just yesterday thatyou know I was the butt of one
of the jokes where I have askedmany people on our team did we
get paid, did we get paid?
She's always going to ask didwe get paid?
So it's.
But you know, you gotta, yougotta laugh.
Rich (08:14):
So I'm going to jump into really the lesson and I actually
want to start with a questionthat's not on there, but the
Bloomingdale's ExecutiveTraining Program that has.
When that was there, whenFederated and Make Company and
Macy's were doing similarprograms, it became almost a
retail MBA.
(08:34):
It was a badge there that isn'tbeing done anymore.
Do you see that as being a missand how do retailers have to
make up that gap?
Deirdre (08:44):
being a miss and how do retailers have to make up that
gap?
Yeah, so a couple of things.
I agree with you 100% that itwas a retail MBA and I used to
kind of jokingly refer to it asa free MBA.
It does not really exist.
I have seen the evolution of theinternship and I think it's
come a long way in manydifferent businesses, but the
(09:08):
investment in training, uh, isso critical and I think when
people are, when people areyoung and they are considering a
role, considering anorganization, asking what's the?
What's the, what are thetraining opportunities?
Where the developmentalopportunities?
And then asking someone whoyou're considering working for,
what was their bestdevelopmental experience and how
(09:29):
did they, how did they developthat?
Their team members, what, howdid they invest in their team?
Every consumer or everyemployee sentiment survey that
comes back is going to saypeople want more, they want more
development, more opportunity.
So you got to as to as a personwho is charting their career
path, you have to ask thosequestions and you have to do
(09:51):
your best to work with someone,or work on a team with someone
who believes in that type oftraining and who's going to
provide it for you.
So, because I don't think itexists at a corporate level.
Gautham (10:02):
Rich Because I don't think it exists at a corporate
level.
Rich, Can I ask you about yourpast Sure?
You said you were alwaysinterested in being a buyer and
you've been in a merchant rolefor a significant amount of time
Like 15 years.
Scott.
Yes, but you know consumertrends change everything.
(10:22):
Technology changes, demandschange, market factors change.
What is the essence to being amerchant today, and how would
you define successful merchantstoday?
Deirdre (10:36):
So you know, the answer hasn't changed and I would tell
you it is art and science 100%constantly.
Someone had said to me oncewhich I thought was really
important is that the art willfail you and the science cannot.
So having that balance iscritical, and every business has
(10:56):
their science, every businesshas the metrics or the KPIs that
are really important to whatthey do.
So you got to appreciate theart, you got to enjoy the art.
I think that there's an elementof passion which is always
present and as the merchant,you're often in that central
role and people will say it'sthe center, you know, the center
(11:17):
hub.
So, connecting with all thedifferent people, you know, in
the simplest sense, you areresponsible for creating product
that consumers are going towant to purchase and engage with
.
So it's brand, it's consumer,it's art, it's science, how you
access.
That has changed over X numberof years, but fundamentally
(11:39):
those are the things you have topay attention to.
I want to ask a follow-upquestion on that.
Gautham (11:41):
Yeah, those are the things you have to pay attention
to.
I want to ask a follow-upquestion on that.
You said consumers, brands,customers.
How do you access whatcustomers?
I feel like?
Customer taste and preferencesevolved so dramatically today.
How do you stay in tune with it?
How do you figure out tominimize the risks that
(12:03):
companies take?
Deirdre (12:03):
Yeah, you know, one thing that has happened over the
years is every customer hasexcuse me, every organization
has invested in data analytics,consumer analytics, and that's
something that didn't exist.
You know, at an earlier pointin your career you didn't have a
team or a partner who you couldwork with to garner insights.
(12:28):
And now you've got.
You have that as part of yourteam, part of your cross
functional team, and you know, Ican think of an example just
last week where trying to figureout what the demand for a
specific product at a specificbrand in a specific country and
you've got access to that data.
You can see what your awarenessis, what the consumer shopping
behavior is, and then it's aboutmaking the choices.
(12:48):
So you've got the data.
You've got to figure out howyou want to use it and how you
want to interpret it.
Rich (12:54):
You oversee growth strategies for multiple brands.
You are looking at growth inother countries.
How do you manage even goingexpand on the data answer or
even going beyond the data?
How are you managing thedifferent customers, the
different expectations and thedifferent countries?
Deirdre (13:12):
Yeah.
So I mentioned earlier that mytime at New Balance was pretty
pivotal and that was really thefirst time that I was engaged in
a global business.
And I say global because I hadworked in businesses that had
international presence, but Ihad not really been involved in
a global business.
And when you are, you've gotdifferent currencies, you've got
(13:35):
different cultures, you've gotdifferent geographies and you
have to accept an element oflocalization to enable success.
And you know, if you don't dothat and you're here's my brand,
here's my way, here's how we'regoing to do it it won't be
successful.
But having a two-way dialoguewith the market, the region, the
(13:57):
partner is critical and youhave to build relationships and
that is that is.
You know, that's importanteverywhere.
But it's a little differentthan managing or leading a
business that's in one geography, in one time zone, where you're
down the hall from each otherand you can have those
conversations.
When you're in a different timezone, you have to focus on your
communication, you have tobuild trust and you have to
(14:19):
ensure that you're enablingproductivity with your partners
or your subsidiaries.
So it's a different muscle andit's a different process.
Gautham (14:30):
Let me ask a follow-up on that question.
When you have these differentorganizations, different
countries, how do you achievecoordination and, most
importantly, redundancyminimized redundancies?
That can happen and perhapscross-pollinate and get
innovation going acrossboundaries?
Deirdre (14:49):
Yeah, how do you avoid redundancy?
That is an excellent question.
That may be a podcast in and ofitself, but you know, I think
that you can't lose sight ofprofit.
So, and that is that's a globalorganization, that's any
organization You've got to haveprofit or a path to profit in in
everything that you're doingand then that's going to, that's
(15:10):
going to connect to your.
You've got to be sure that youcan support it with resources or
redirect the resources to makethat opportunity fruitful and
(15:32):
worthwhile, and it doesn't haveto be fruitful immediately, but
there has to be a path to it.
So it's pretty important.
Gautam, did that answer yourquestion?
Gautham (15:42):
I'm smiling because you said focus on profits.
You know, and oftentimes peoplefocus on top line growth.
Yeah, and I heard you sayprofits and I love that.
Deirdre (15:53):
Or path to profit.
You know, I love that you gotto be able to see it from there.
Paula (16:00):
Yeah.
Rich (16:00):
So how do you approach the , whether it's innovation from a
trend perspective, from afabric perspective?
How are you encouraging yourteams to do that?
And I'll extend the the profitequation to that as well.
Deirdre (16:16):
Yeah.
So I think that innovation is ais a frightening word for a lot
of people and I think in 95percent of the situations you
could replace it with newness.
You could just change the wordand say what are we doing to
drive newness, and that becomesso much more digestible for
teams.
You know, and in any productbusiness, it's about not staying
(16:41):
still and it's about iterating,iterating, iterating, and so
much of innovation is iteration.
And then there's then there'sthe disruptive piece, which is,
you know, it takes a long timeand doesn't always happen and
there's tons of failures gettingthere.
But Keeping your eye on freshproduct and newness is critical.
You know, if you go back to thedata piece, the data can inform
(17:03):
your choices and any strategy,as you guys all know, is about
tradeoffs and strategic choicesand what you're going to invest
in and what you're not going toinvest in.
So when you can incorporatedata into that and you keep
teams focused on what's new,what's new, what's new, and then
that goes back to the science,how much newness do you want?
So, you know, constantlychecking that.
(17:24):
To wrap it up, I think that theword innovation terrifies a lot
of people and gets overused.
Gautham (17:31):
You said how much newness do you want?
I'm a researcher who focuses oninnovation.
We talk about radical versusincremental.
How do you approach?
I mean, that's a really, reallytough question from a
leadership.
How do you approach that?
Deirdre (17:44):
You know, I think in a now I'm going to go back to like
the super nerdy we're buying aline you got to have at least
10%.
That's new.
You know, and that's whenyou're looking at it.
You've got stuff that you know.
You've got your existingbusiness drivers and that
doesn't mean that it's I'venever tested it, I just I just
came up with this idea.
You got to have some, somelogic and rationale and trend
(18:07):
and it needs to be supported.
But I think you got to have 10%.
That's new.
Gautham (18:12):
I have to update my notes.
I keep saying 20%, so I'm goingto update that to 10%.
You know I used to borrow it toa rule 80 to 80 dollars a week.
Deirdre (18:21):
You know, a lot of what we do is looking at buys and
looking at investments, and sothere's the fashion, the color,
the silhouette, what's new,what's happening, and then you
get to the numbers.
What are we buying?
What's the leg shape, what'sthe depth?
There's a lot of analytics thatgo into that.
Gautham (18:44):
And then you you got to make sure that you've got stuff
that's new, that you cansupport, and you got to market
it.
You got to put it in front ofpeople you talked about
freshness, identifying freshnessand so forth.
We see, especially in thefashion when I teach classes,
people most of the time ontiktok and instagram talking
about fashion trends andcapturing what's fashion.
How does the company stayabreast of that, like in that
10% that you just talked about?
Deirdre (19:01):
A lot of it is shopping and market research, you know,
and it is.
You know, you're out and you'revisiting different countries and
you're watching people andyou're going to shops and every
brand has a brand that they lookat or someone that they aspire
to, that they watch, they lookat, or someone that they aspire
(19:22):
to, that they watch, that theyuse to.
You know, as a bellwether ofchange and trend, and that's, I
mean, that's one of the bestparts of the job is, you know,
really being out there, being inthe streets looking at fashion.
That's a big part of it.
And then there's, but there'salso publications, and now
you've got the McKinsey's.
What's happening.
You know the state of fashion.
You've got tons of, tons ofinformation that's coming in,
(19:43):
but that's, you know, in the, inthe process, I would say, like
when you're thinking about whata product lifecycle calendar is
time for for research, productresearch, consumer research, and
you know I talked about NewBalance a little bit but being
in markets and traveling andmaking sure that you are seeing
and meeting and talking, allthat is really important.
Rich (20:05):
So I'm going to pivot to consumer behavior and I'm
tempted, at some point, to askyou, since there's no such thing
as a perfect balance are you51-49 art or science?
Depends who I'm talking to areyou 51, 49 art or science.
(20:26):
So, from a consumer behaviorperspective, what changes have
you seen throughout your careerand, as you look forward, how do
you think consumer behavior isgoing to continue to evolve?
Deirdre (20:30):
You know, I think, the immediacy of information, of
trend of style, you know justthe obviously the digital
evolution has been massive andfrom where we started to where
we are now, and what consumersexpect as far as speed of change
, what consumers know as far asproduct and countries and their
(20:50):
exposure is, is, you know, it'sreally incredible.
You know, I think, probably youknow there's there's too much
choice.
You know, in the world ofretail and product, and I think
that is probably what you'regoing to see change as you look
forward.
Rich (21:08):
So how do you think that's going to impact students that
are looking at, or those earlyin their career that are looking
at, retail?
If we are indeed going toreduce consumption as a society,
how does that change someonethinking about this as a career?
Deirdre (21:22):
Well, I would make good choices with where you go.
I would say is this branddurable?
Does it connect to consumers?
Are they thoughtful from anenvironmental perspective, from
a sustainability perspective?
And then I think in thesimplest level is the product
and investment and is it durableand will it stand the test of
(21:43):
time?
Rich (21:44):
you know, those are the businesses that people are going
to invest in looking ahead,what do you think, beyond
consumer behavior, what are thebigger trends that you're
looking at?
Deirdre (21:52):
in retail.
I think the biggest I want tochoose my word correctly I think
the biggest consideration isstores and inventory and how you
think about that.
You know you go into thepandemic and every coming out of
the pandemic, every, everyone'sonline contribution has has
increased dramatically.
You know it's gotten to a placethat people never anticipated
(22:13):
and now we're back to stores andas a brand or as a I'll take my
, I'll take the brand out of itas a shopper, there's got to be
the expectation of newness, ofbeing able to interact with
product and having choice.
And so, as retailers and brandsbalance inventory and store
energy.
And how big do I want my storesto be?
(22:34):
I think that the future of themall, the future of the store,
how much inventory people aregoing to carry and is it
exciting?
Is that the biggest unlock forbrands, and it's a big one.
If the customer comes in andyou don't have their size,
they're not able to touch theproduct, they're not going to
come back.
Paula (22:52):
Deidre, that's incredible .
Thank you for that insight,especially into the nuances of
retail and how it all worksright and from the business
perspective.
Let's take another step andtalk about what advice you would
have for people.
So this is a chance to offerstudents and aspiring retail
professionals practical adviceand insights that either in the
(23:14):
industry, career or even justoverall.
If you had to boil it down toone thing, which may be hard,
what is the best advice you'veever received in your career?
Deirdre (23:25):
Uh, I don't think I can give you one, but I'll give you
, I'll give you, I'll give you acouple, because I would put too
much pressure on myself to comeup with the most critical piece
of advice, because you get alot, you know, I think that the
cliche one is that it's amarathon, not a sprint, and that
manifests itself day after day,year after year.
And I think when you're earlyin your career and you know the
(23:46):
person to the left you got apromotion and you've been in
this job for a year and a halfand you know these kind of
moments in time it really, overa long period of time, equals
out and I think constantlythinking about the longer term
view is super important.
You know, I think that you wantto be aggressive with your
career, you want to takechallenges.
(24:07):
All those things are important.
The other piece of advice thatand I don't know if it's advice
as much as a comment, but Ireflect on it regularly is I had
a boss who talked to me a lotabout tension and the tension
that exists in developing abusiness and it really connects
to how tightly or how looselyyou hold the reins, and I think
(24:30):
that constantly being aware ofthat.
Tension is super important forteams and products and how you
think about a business growingand you don't want to hold it so
tightly that you constrainopportunity and you don't want
to hold it so loosely that youlose control but how you, how
you manage that tension is, um,is super important.
(24:51):
I remember I think about it alot actually and it was really,
I think it was a goodobservation.
Paula (24:58):
Yeah, that's that hits home, especially as a mother or
with a family, I can imagine.
As a woman and being where youare, I feel like you've had to
navigate that tension more sothan other people is my
assumption.
Rich (25:11):
So any particular mentors that that come to mind that have
guided you.
Deirdre (25:16):
Yeah, you know there are, you know you have a lot in
there their friends and mentorsand colleagues.
Probably the one that standsout for me was a leader who's
really focused on developinghigh performing teams and he was
a I wasn't gonna use pronouns,but there you go a big believer
in good to great and spent a lotof time in coaching and
(25:40):
leadership development and itwas really a fantastic
experience and I think that theytook the role of leader and the
responsibility of leadershipvery, very seriously.
I appreciated that.
I learned a ton and model a lotof that behavior.
Gautham (25:58):
Lisa, good to great.
Yeah, Let me just ask you aboutyour leadership philosophy,
right?
So when I've talked to seniorleaders, they talk their two
approaches to mentorship focuson the top group or help bring
the bottom up, or maybe acombination.
How do you see things?
Because you have limitedresources, how do you develop
(26:20):
everyone in your team to becomethat high performing team?
Deirdre (26:23):
I do think that you you really focus on where you can
make impact and you work on teamskills, but you also focus on
individual relationships andwhere there is, I'm going to say
, a, an opportunity and atwo-way interest in development
is super important.
You've got to focus on yourleaders.
You know those are the folksthat influence the organization
(26:47):
Aligned messaging.
You know leadership behaviors,leadership principles, ensuring
that you as a group are sayingthe same thing sincerely it's
not a picture on a wall but thatyou've come to these behaviors
collectively and that you modelthem as a group.
And I said to someone in themiddle of my career every leader
(27:09):
is a person and they'refallible and they're going to
make mistakes, and forgivenessis important as well, so I think
that keeping that in mind iscritical.
Rich (27:18):
When you're looking at talent, what do you think is the
?
What's the most underratedskill set, or what's the skill
set that you really are tryingto pinpoint the most?
Deirdre (27:27):
You know it depends on the role 100%.
But I think you know anindividual has to be committed.
It doesn't mean they have toidentify with, but they have to
be committed to the brand andthe consumer.
You know have an appreciationfor that.
As far as a kind of a personalcapability, I think we got to
have a sense of humor.
(27:47):
That is that is is critical, andthen you know it, really it
varies by team and by position.
You know you want to, you wantto create a team that fills
different, different skill setsand different gaps, and what you
don't want to do is you don'twant to have 10 people to do the
same thing or think the sameway or look the same way.
You're not going to, you'regoing to miss things if that's
(28:08):
the case.
From when you get later on inyour career, when you're looking
at senior people, I thinkexecutive courage is probably
one of the most important thingsthat you need to have on a team
and that is, you know you gotto be able, you got to say it,
you got to mean it, You've gotto be able to speak the
unpopular.
So having that element ofexecutive courage when you're at
(28:33):
that senior group is critical.
Rich (28:36):
So you mentioned committed to the brand.
Yeah is critical.
So you mentioned committed tothe brand yeah and I we've
probably both worked for peoplethat believe that in order to be
a great merchant, you have tolive the brand.
Deirdre (28:48):
Yeah.
Rich (28:49):
Do you think that's necessary?
How are you defining committedto the brand?
Deirdre (28:54):
Yeah, I, I, I don't think it's necessary to live the
brand.
I think having an appreciationand commitment and understanding
it and understanding theconsumer, that that's the
commitment level.
It doesn't you don't have to bethat person, they don't have to
be you, but you have to knowwho your customers, know what
your brand is and be committedto that.
And some sometimes that thebrand isn't a brand, isn't for a
(29:17):
person and that's okay, that's.
It's just probably not theright match.
Rich (29:21):
So yeah, I've encountered those situations where it's it's
it's good to have buy-in, but Ithink there are times where
executives feel that you have tobe part of it in order to
understand it and sometimesthat's actually limiting because
you might not evolve as thecustomer evolves.
Deirdre (29:39):
Yeah, One thing I would add is I do think there are
places where credibility isimportant, and you know I think
about that from a performanceperspective and you know there's
an element of credibility thatis going to be important,
particularly if you are in frontof accounts or teams.
So there is an element of that,but I think appreciation for
(30:04):
the brand is the most important.
Gautham (30:07):
You know, when you said when Paul asked the question
about how would you distill itto one or two, I was thinking
you'd go in a very differentdirection, but I love what you
said.
It's a marathon, not a sprint.
And within that you also saidsomething that struck me very
close, which is not to compareyourself with others, right?
(30:27):
I have a six-year-old daughterand one of the two things I keep
telling her is like don'tcompare yourself with others,
just compare yourself with whoyou are and see better.
It's very easy to say it, Iknow, I say it a lot, but I
can't do it myself.
How do you encourage that inyour team to actually improve
themselves daily, not to drawthese comparisons and have that
(30:49):
longer term vision?
Deirdre (30:50):
Yeah, you know, I don't know if I could say, I don't
know if I can answer that on adaily basis, but I do think,
messaging that you're alwayslearning and that there's
something that you're going tolearn from every experience good
, bad.
You know, whatever categoryyou're in, whatever role you're
in, you know, for some youngerpeople where they may feel like
(31:10):
they've been in their job andthey've mastered it, that's the
opportunity to teach someoneelse.
So start to teach and show yourexperience and capabilities is
important and you know, theother thing is raise your hand
for the extra project.
If it's out there like, take it.
Rich (31:26):
All right.
So I have one last question,and then we're going to go into
the uh, the rapid fire.
What do you personally do forinspiration?
Deirdre (31:32):
Oh, um, I like to be outside so exercise nature.
Um, that's where I, that'swhere I clear my head, do a lot
of thinking, so that's that's mything.
No, electronics.
Rich (31:43):
You can actually do that.
You can get rid of theelectronics for a period of time
.
Deirdre (31:46):
I do Yep, yep.
So, and I can tell you, thereare.
We all have things where youare struggling to write a letter
or you've got something youhave to do, and I find that
getting some exercise clearahead, it will flow, and so I
think it's probably one of thebest things you can do for
yourself.
Rich (32:03):
All right, so I'm going to kick off the rapid fire round.
Quick answer, first thing thatcomes into your head.
I am going to give you a choiceon the first one either your
go-to comfort food or, knowingthat you've traveled to various
places around the world forproduct development, for trend
shopping, your most memorablemeal.
Deirdre (32:23):
Oh God, okay.
So my favorite meal is myhusband makes bucatini
amatriciana and that is insane.
It's so good, so my daughterand I will both request it.
I'm making that a lot.
And then probably favorite mealwould be Voltaire in Paris.
(32:44):
So the avocado and grapefruitsalad, followed by steak and
then chocolate mousse.
That's why I have to exercise.
Gautham (32:52):
Good choice, yeah, so we'll stick with the around the
world theme then.
So you said you enjoy beingoutdoors.
What's the?
If you could transport yourselfto any part of the world, where
would it be?
Deirdre (33:06):
So my favorite place to travel is Tokyo or Japan.
So, and that is whenever Itravel, I try and make that my
last stop because it's myfavorite.
So, but that is, that'sprobably probably my favorite.
But I, you know, I like to godifferent places, I like to
experience different things,lots of different places.
But that's, if you forced me topick one, that would probably
(33:28):
be it.
Paula (33:29):
All right, probably the most important question you're
going to get all day andremember.
It's the first thing that popsin your mind.
Will you sing happy birthday toRich Sure?
Yeah, I'm not a great singerbut I will, so you don't have to
do it alone gotham said that hewould lead it.
Deirdre (33:46):
Okay, rich is rich is 29th.
Rich (33:47):
Rich is 29th birthday, you bet what age do you stop
considering birthdays?
Deirdre (33:52):
never really.
Yeah, I'm not always certainhow old I am.
I lose track of that sometimes,um, but the day to celebrate
and eat cake for sure, well.
Paula (34:01):
Deidre, thank you so much for joining us, Thank you
Gotham, Thank you Rich.
As always, my podcast BFFs, andwe're just really excited for
this episode to come out.
So thank you again for yourtime.
Rich (34:12):
All right.
So you have to love it whenyour podcast BFF has a little
bit of surprise in waiting foryou.
So I enjoyed the rendition ofHappy Birthday, one of the best
I've heard.
But obviously I will edit thatout because I'm not sure how
it'll show up on a podcast.
But, gautam, what did you?
What did you think afterhearing from from Deirdre?
Gautham (34:33):
So I feel like a common theme.
I'm going to talk about boththe narrative style as well as
the substantive context and thenarrative style.
I feel like it's a common theme.
Like all these, leaders arevery precise in the use of words
and very elo.
I think it's important that wedevelop those communication
(34:59):
skills and keep practicing that.
It's something that's been aneye opener for me is hearing
these people speak and theaddress, no exception.
Rich (35:08):
Yeah, I would agree and I think it's one of those that I
mentioned it at the beginning ofthe podcast that she was one of
the first true retailprofessionals and not to
disparage those that I workedwith at Joseph Bank, because
they were professional as wellbut moving to New York City and
getting to work for what was atthe time the oldest retail in
America and just seeing somebodylike Deirdre, who had gone
(35:32):
through the Bloomingdale'straining program and that was
eye opening as well to hear hertalk about that and sit in
meetings with her and just seethe way that she conducted
herself, it was really that'swhat showed me what this
industry is capable of, and justsome amazingly intelligent
people.
The loss of leadership programsin retail.
Gautham (35:53):
You and I have had this conversation.
I do think conversation thatyou talked about with the
Bloomingdale leadership groupwas an important conversation in
(36:22):
the context of who we're tryingto talk to.
Rich (36:25):
Yeah, and I wonder.
We started a training programwhich I'm very excited about.
It's been very productive, Ithink to a year-long training
program and I don't know that.
I realized that they moved asoften as they did from buying to
the selling floor to buying tothe selling floor, and I know
(36:46):
we've talked to others that havetalked about that discontent or
disconnect that happens betweenheadquarters and the field and
you wonder and I'm sure thereare retailers out there that do
this but you wonder if that'sone of the things that is
missing and that you know, as anindustry we need to entertain
and bring back.
Gautham (37:06):
I think it's a long-term plan, right, it's a
systematic plan that requires alot of partners to work together
.
I don't know what the appetiteis and perhaps those programs
didn't pay the dividends.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout the other things that she
spoke about, and I want to startwith what I had asked her,
which is the product mixquestion and the level of
(37:26):
innovation in there, and I foundit interesting that she talked
about only 10% of newness, andI'm on record saying that.
Oh, I teach my class say 80-20.
And I wonder, Rich, is thatcommon?
Do you see that mix in yourexperience amongst the retailers
that you have engaged with?
Rich (37:46):
You know, I think it depends.
It's probably a little bit andI don't want to use the word
conservative it's probably alittle bit lower than what I'm
used to.
But I think it has to do with acouple of factors.
One, you know, I would imaginethat if you go to a fast fashion
retail, if you go to Zara,their proportions are going to
be dramatically different.
So I think part of it has to dowith the lifestyle of the brand
(38:09):
and who the customer is.
But I also think it has to dowith, again, she's a very keen
merchant with an understandingof what the customer is going to
buy and what her team needs toinvest their time in.
I remember my first buying joband somebody who was mentoring
me took me to a bar to celebrateand I was excited because I was
(38:30):
going to change the world and Istarted talking about all the
fashionable things that I wasgoing to develop, and this was a
menswear, and he was justlistening.
He said all right, I want youto stand up and I want you to
see what everybody's wearing.
As I described it, he said youcan do all the fashion and all
the newness you want, but it'sthe basics that are going to
sell and it's the basics thatare going to pay the bills.
I think it's successful if youdon't expend the energy on
(38:52):
things that aren't necessarilygoing to wind up on the top four
.
Gautham (38:55):
I'm curious what I also find fascinating in the
conversation about leadershipand how it evolved, right like
how she had to evolve as aleader from being a functional
to more of the executor thatlooks over the different
functions.
How was it for you, what, whatwere the challenges that it that
it took for you to overcomethat focus on being
(39:18):
goal-oriented towards yourfunctional performance, to being
more looking across thespectrum.
Rich (39:24):
It is probably one of the most challenging things.
It's tough for me.
I love to brainstorm, I love tojump into the mix and toss
around ideas.
I hate the sound of silence,the introvert that I am Problem
is is that you do learn overtime that if you, if you have a
title and you hold a certainposition, that oftentimes you're
(39:45):
going to shut down conversationand you're going to shut down
innovation because people don'twant to necessarily sit there
and disagree with you and you're, you're doing more harm than
good.
And so I think I'm learning thehard way with Deirdre.
I, I, you know, I.
It would be great to have adiscussion on nothing but that
learning path that she's gonethrough, because I remember her
(40:06):
back in the early two thousandsand having that kind of
thoughtful persona in the waythat I saw her present more, you
know, very analytical, she saidit herself, she, she
understands the art and embracesthe art, but she's a
data-driven merchant and so it'svery methodical, but it is a
real challenge.
Gautham (40:25):
I think even raising it above that right, I think it's
a challenge for everyone to beable to look across the spectrum
and not be so focused on whatyou own.
And I think, like I'll pitchfor academia in the sense that
you know we force our studentsto take these different classes
across different functionalareas I think it does pay off in
the long run, right, you getexposed to these different
(40:46):
domain areas and how theyinterconnect, and it's an
important point of view to haveif you're going up in leadership
, which is most people'saspiration.
Rich (40:54):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I took away from
the conversation is you wouldask her about you know,
obviously you can invest thesame amount in every person, but
to recognize who those highpotentials are and to invest in
those that are going to have thepayoff and that's challenging
sometimes and I think, as aleader, what you have to do is
(41:16):
you have to make sure that youcheck your bias and make sure
that you don't lock yourselfinto a position where you're
automatically assuming who'sgoing to be the top performer.
But I never had the chance towork directly for Deidre, but I
know people that have that haveexcelled in their careers as a
result of it.
Gautham (41:35):
So let me ask you this, Rich what else stood out to you
in the conversation?
Rich (41:39):
I would say that's probably, you know, just to
close out with a takeaway that Ithink is one that is good for
students.
Her answer on the question offailure, I think was I'm not
going to say surprising, but itwas somewhat surprising and it
was refreshing where I thinkmost of us, when asked, can
probably come up with a criticalfailure.
Either we dwell on it or wekeep this running list.
(42:03):
And I thought that her take onit of I've had plenty of
failures, I'm going to haveplenty more.
I learned from them.
I don't dwell on them, but Ilearned the lessons from it.
And then later on, when shetalked about her ability to at
times kind of disconnect anddecompress and how important
(42:25):
that is, and her ability to getaway to, you know, to work out,
spend time with her family, Ithink that is something that
more and more people need tohear.
I thought her take on failureand how she reacts to it to be
refreshing.
I know that Paula had to jumpoff, so I will close for her and
(42:46):
say thank you again to DeirdreFitzgerald for joining us on
Retail Relates.
I think this one's going to bea masterclass in product
development and branddevelopment and merchandising
and Gautam always a pleasure.
So, um, gautam, always apleasure, um.
So, on behalf of Gautam andPaula, thank you very much for
joining us today and we will seeyou next time.
So I'm excited for you guys.
I know Paul is going to be onmute for part of this, but I'm
excited to have Deirdre onRetail Relates today.
Gautham (00:09):
I'm looking forward to this conversation, which is it's
always good to see someonewho's risen up through the ranks
, always with a merchandisingfocus and with all the
conversations around productassortment and product mix,
around product assortment andproduct mix, it will be great to
hear her take on how they viewinnovation within the context of
products and merchandise.
Look forward to thisconversation.
Rich (00:32):
We are excited to welcome Deirdre Fitzgerald to the
program today.
Deirdre is the president ofInternational for Knitwell Group
, a powerhouse portfolio ofwomen's specialty retail brands
which includes Ann Taylor,chico's Lane Bryant, loft, soma,
talbot's and White House BlackMarket, together generating over
$6 billion in sales annually.
(00:53):
With a remarkable careerspanning over three decades,
deirdre has significantlyinfluenced the retail industry
through her strategic leadershipand innovative growth strategy.
She previously served as thepresident of the Talbots brand,
steering it towards financialgrowth and stability during
challenging times.
Prior to joining Talbots,deirdre held executive roles at
(01:13):
New Balance and JCrew and BrooksBrothers, showcasing her
diverse global apparelmerchandising and brand
management expertise.
She's also an active communityleader, involved in initiatives
such as Dress for Success andserving on the boards of Hingham
Historical Society andRepurpose for a Purpose.
For those interested inDeirdre's extensive journey and
(01:35):
contributions to retail, herfull biography is available on
our show link.
Paula (01:40):
Deirdre Fitzgerald, thank you so much for being on the
show.
We're so honored to have youhere, especially someone with
such incredible brands undertheir name.
Oh, I'm thrilled to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Let's start off with a littlebit about your journey.
So we're going to post your bioin the show notes.
So we don't want to hear aboutthat.
We want to hear about yourthree pivotal moments in your
(02:01):
career.
So what are the three mostpivotal moments in your career?
So what are the three mostpivotal moments in your career
that, or your life, have led youto where you are today?
Deirdre (02:07):
Yeah, that's gonna be hard to get it to three, but I
guess if I, if I were on adesert island and had to narrow
it down to three, I thinkprobably joining Bloomingdale's,
you know, out of college andgetting into that training
program and being a part of that.
I spent 12 years in New Yorkbut ultimately the decision to
(02:28):
leave New York, move to Bostonand become a part of what now is
Knitwell Group was prettypivotal.
And then joining New Balance.
So I spent time at New Balanceand that was really an
eye-opening experience as far aswhat it means to be a part of a
global brand.
If I think, practicallyspeaking, when you go through
(02:52):
your career.
I think when you first becomeresponsible for a business is
pretty pivotal, and then, muchfurther down the road, when you
shift from functional expertiseto enterprise leader, that is a
real, real pivot and Rich I knowyou have experienced that but
that is definitely that's a bigmove that requires a lot of
(03:13):
energy and it's very rewarding.
Gautham (03:15):
What does that big move entail?
Moving from a functional leaderto leading an entire
corporation?
Deirdre (03:23):
Typically, when you sit on a senior leadership team,
you really are responsible foroversight, guidance,
participation in the fullenterprise and up until that
point, you've typically been theleader of your function.
So you're advocating for thatfunction, you're pushing for
that function, and it forces youto prioritize and really think
(03:47):
about the different teams andthe different capabilities that
exist within an organization.
It's great, it's fun, but a lotof people aren't prepared for
it, so it takes quite a bit oflearning.
Paula (04:00):
So did you set out wanting to go into retail.
So is this what you initiallyenvisioned?
And if not, what was youroriginal?
Deirdre (04:07):
Yeah, yes and no, yes and no.
So I majored in Englishliterature in school, so if that
would probably suggest that Ididn't set out to pursue a
career in retail.
But, that being said, I alwaysloved it and I wanted to be a
buyer.
I had summer jobs working inboutiques and had a taste of
retail.
But it really came down toshould I should I go to law
(04:29):
school, which is what my myparents probably would have
preferred, or should I should Igo into retail?
You know, and ultimately it wasthe first job at Bloomingdale's
that kind of secured it for me,but it definitely was always
something I wanted and I don'tthink I really knew how to get
there until I was fortunateenough to be part of the
(04:49):
training program.
Paula (04:50):
So that's interesting.
So what was it aboutBloomingdale's that secured it
for you?
Was it the training program orwas it just the experience?
Deirdre (04:57):
Yeah, it was a very developed training program where
there was a rhythm and therewas training and there was a, I
guess, a pretty explicit careerpath.
So you would start and what wasreally special about it is that
you spend time working instores and working in the buying
(05:17):
office, and so the programtoggled back and forth and I
also had experiences in a ton ofdifferent categories.
So I was in cosmetics, I was inkids, I was in men's and so
also had experiences in a ton ofdifferent categories.
So I was in cosmetics, I was inkids, I was in men's, and so
your experience and yourperspective was constantly
changing.
It was fast paced, it wasdynamic, so it was great and it
was an incredible training.
Paula (05:36):
Yeah, that sounds great.
The clarity and the directionand then also the diversity of
the training.
Yeah, yeah, you couldn't askfor a better start.
So you've got a long history ofsuccesses, which we will
highlight in the show notes, butis there a particular?
I mean, you are very impressivewoman.
Deirdre (05:52):
I'm very honored to be.
Paula (05:58):
Is there a particular failure that stands out as a
lesson learned that you wouldgive to other people?
Deirdre (06:11):
I don't.
To be honest, I don't there's alot to choose from and I don't
I wouldn't say that one standsout.
You know, probably, I guessprobably, what I would say is
there will be many, there aremany, there will be many.
It's not fatal and everybodyfails and you know, probably my
best failure is yet to come.
But really I think if you lookat it and you're like what did I
learn?
What mistake did I make?
Did I step away from thecustomer?
(06:32):
Did I stop listening?
Did I go back to the well toomuch?
You know all of these thingskind of build your perspective
and build your capabilities.
So you know it's win or learn.
So you know it's win or learn.
Rich (06:43):
How challenging was it to move from kind of jumping in the
fray and brainstorming andbuilding to leading a group
doing that and do you findyourself having to kind of pull
yourself back from wanting tojump into the mix to build
something?
Deirdre (07:02):
Yeah, you know that's a good question and, rich, I
expect that you feel this way.
One of the most importantthings is to know when to step
in and when not to step in.
And you know, as a leader, youalways have to enable whatever
you can do to enable.
But you also have to meetpeople where they are and
understand when you can be at30,000 feet, when you can be at
(07:23):
15, when you need to dip down toone.
And it's that ability or notability requirement to
constantly recalibrate andchange your altitude depending
on the team that I think issuper important as you progress
throughout your career.
They probably tell me to getout of it, rich.
Rich (07:41):
I was going to say do you have what I have?
We have team huddles everythree or four weeks and we play
a game of what did Rich say,what did he mean?
And did he actually say that?
Because I find I get credit fora lot of things that I didn't
really say.
Deirdre (07:55):
Yeah.
Rich (07:55):
So we have to sift through it.
Deirdre (07:57):
Yeah, yeah.
I found out just yesterday thatyou know I was the butt of one
of the jokes where I have askedmany people on our team did we
get paid, did we get paid?
She's always going to ask didwe get paid?
So it's.
But you know, you gotta, yougotta laugh.
Rich (08:14):
So I'm going to jump into really the lesson and I actually
want to start with a questionthat's not on there, but the
Bloomingdale's ExecutiveTraining Program that has.
When that was there, whenFederated and Make Company and
Macy's were doing similarprograms, it became almost a
retail MBA.
(08:34):
It was a badge there that isn'tbeing done anymore.
Do you see that as being a missand how do retailers have to
make up that gap?
Deirdre (08:44):
being a miss and how do retailers have to make up that
gap?
Yeah, so a couple of things.
I agree with you 100% that itwas a retail MBA and I used to
kind of jokingly refer to it asa free MBA.
It does not really exist.
I have seen the evolution of theinternship and I think it's
come a long way in manydifferent businesses, but the
(09:08):
investment in training, uh, isso critical and I think when
people are, when people areyoung and they are considering a
role, considering anorganization, asking what's the?
What's the, what are thetraining opportunities?
Where the developmentalopportunities?
And then asking someone whoyou're considering working for,
what was their bestdevelopmental experience and how
(09:29):
did they, how did they developthat?
Their team members, what, howdid they invest in their team?
Every consumer or everyemployee sentiment survey that
comes back is going to saypeople want more, they want more
development, more opportunity.
So you got to as to as a personwho is charting their career
path, you have to ask thosequestions and you have to do
(09:51):
your best to work with someone,or work on a team with someone
who believes in that type oftraining and who's going to
provide it for you.
So, because I don't think itexists at a corporate level.
Gautham (10:02):
Rich Because I don't think it exists at a corporate
level.
Rich, Can I ask you about yourpast Sure?
You said you were alwaysinterested in being a buyer and
you've been in a merchant rolefor a significant amount of time
Like 15 years.
Scott.
Yes, but you know consumertrends change everything.
(10:22):
Technology changes, demandschange, market factors change.
What is the essence to being amerchant today, and how would
you define successful merchantstoday?
Deirdre (10:36):
So you know, the answer hasn't changed and I would tell
you it is art and science 100%constantly.
Someone had said to me oncewhich I thought was really
important is that the art willfail you and the science cannot.
So having that balance iscritical, and every business has
(10:56):
their science, every businesshas the metrics or the KPIs that
are really important to whatthey do.
So you got to appreciate theart, you got to enjoy the art.
I think that there's an elementof passion which is always
present and as the merchant,you're often in that central
role and people will say it'sthe center, you know, the center
(11:17):
hub.
So, connecting with all thedifferent people, you know, in
the simplest sense, you areresponsible for creating product
that consumers are going towant to purchase and engage with
.
So it's brand, it's consumer,it's art, it's science, how you
access.
That has changed over X numberof years, but fundamentally
(11:39):
those are the things you have topay attention to.
I want to ask a follow-upquestion on that.
Gautham (11:41):
Yeah, those are the things you have to pay attention
to.
I want to ask a follow-upquestion on that.
You said consumers, brands,customers.
How do you access whatcustomers?
I feel like?
Customer taste and preferencesevolved so dramatically today.
How do you stay in tune with it?
How do you figure out tominimize the risks that
(12:03):
companies take?
Deirdre (12:03):
Yeah, you know, one thing that has happened over the
years is every customer hasexcuse me, every organization
has invested in data analytics,consumer analytics, and that's
something that didn't exist.
You know, at an earlier pointin your career you didn't have a
team or a partner who you couldwork with to garner insights.
(12:28):
And now you've got.
You have that as part of yourteam, part of your cross
functional team, and you know, Ican think of an example just
last week where trying to figureout what the demand for a
specific product at a specificbrand in a specific country and
you've got access to that data.
You can see what your awarenessis, what the consumer shopping
behavior is, and then it's aboutmaking the choices.
(12:48):
So you've got the data.
You've got to figure out howyou want to use it and how you
want to interpret it.
Rich (12:54):
You oversee growth strategies for multiple brands.
You are looking at growth inother countries.
How do you manage even goingexpand on the data answer or
even going beyond the data?
How are you managing thedifferent customers, the
different expectations and thedifferent countries?
Deirdre (13:12):
Yeah.
So I mentioned earlier that mytime at New Balance was pretty
pivotal and that was really thefirst time that I was engaged in
a global business.
And I say global because I hadworked in businesses that had
international presence, but Ihad not really been involved in
a global business.
And when you are, you've gotdifferent currencies, you've got
(13:35):
different cultures, you've gotdifferent geographies and you
have to accept an element oflocalization to enable success.
And you know, if you don't dothat and you're here's my brand,
here's my way, here's how we'regoing to do it it won't be
successful.
But having a two-way dialoguewith the market, the region, the
(13:57):
partner is critical and youhave to build relationships and
that is that is.
You know, that's importanteverywhere.
But it's a little differentthan managing or leading a
business that's in one geography, in one time zone, where you're
down the hall from each otherand you can have those
conversations.
When you're in a different timezone, you have to focus on your
communication, you have tobuild trust and you have to
(14:19):
ensure that you're enablingproductivity with your partners
or your subsidiaries.
So it's a different muscle andit's a different process.
Gautham (14:30):
Let me ask a follow-up on that question.
When you have these differentorganizations, different
countries, how do you achievecoordination and, most
importantly, redundancyminimized redundancies?
That can happen and perhapscross-pollinate and get
innovation going acrossboundaries?
Deirdre (14:49):
Yeah, how do you avoid redundancy?
That is an excellent question.
That may be a podcast in and ofitself, but you know, I think
that you can't lose sight ofprofit.
So, and that is that's a globalorganization, that's any
organization You've got to haveprofit or a path to profit in in
everything that you're doingand then that's going to, that's
(15:10):
going to connect to your.
You've got to be sure that youcan support it with resources or
redirect the resources to makethat opportunity fruitful and
(15:32):
worthwhile, and it doesn't haveto be fruitful immediately, but
there has to be a path to it.
So it's pretty important.
Gautam, did that answer yourquestion?
Gautham (15:42):
I'm smiling because you said focus on profits.
You know, and oftentimes peoplefocus on top line growth.
Yeah, and I heard you sayprofits and I love that.
Deirdre (15:53):
Or path to profit.
You know, I love that you gotto be able to see it from there.
Paula (16:00):
Yeah.
Rich (16:00):
So how do you approach the , whether it's innovation from a
trend perspective, from afabric perspective?
How are you encouraging yourteams to do that?
And I'll extend the the profitequation to that as well.
Deirdre (16:16):
Yeah.
So I think that innovation is ais a frightening word for a lot
of people and I think in 95percent of the situations you
could replace it with newness.
You could just change the wordand say what are we doing to
drive newness, and that becomesso much more digestible for
teams.
You know, and in any productbusiness, it's about not staying
(16:41):
still and it's about iterating,iterating, iterating, and so
much of innovation is iteration.
And then there's then there'sthe disruptive piece, which is,
you know, it takes a long timeand doesn't always happen and
there's tons of failures gettingthere.
But Keeping your eye on freshproduct and newness is critical.
You know, if you go back to thedata piece, the data can inform
(17:03):
your choices and any strategy,as you guys all know, is about
tradeoffs and strategic choicesand what you're going to invest
in and what you're not going toinvest in.
So when you can incorporatedata into that and you keep
teams focused on what's new,what's new, what's new, and then
that goes back to the science,how much newness do you want?
So, you know, constantlychecking that.
(17:24):
To wrap it up, I think that theword innovation terrifies a lot
of people and gets overused.
Gautham (17:31):
You said how much newness do you want?
I'm a researcher who focuses oninnovation.
We talk about radical versusincremental.
How do you approach?
I mean, that's a really, reallytough question from a
leadership.
How do you approach that?
Deirdre (17:44):
You know, I think in a now I'm going to go back to like
the super nerdy we're buying aline you got to have at least
10%.
That's new.
You know, and that's whenyou're looking at it.
You've got stuff that you know.
You've got your existingbusiness drivers and that
doesn't mean that it's I'venever tested it, I just I just
came up with this idea.
You got to have some, somelogic and rationale and trend
(18:07):
and it needs to be supported.
But I think you got to have 10%.
That's new.
Gautham (18:12):
I have to update my notes.
I keep saying 20%, so I'm goingto update that to 10%.
You know I used to borrow it toa rule 80 to 80 dollars a week.
Deirdre (18:21):
You know, a lot of what we do is looking at buys and
looking at investments, and sothere's the fashion, the color,
the silhouette, what's new,what's happening, and then you
get to the numbers.
What are we buying?
What's the leg shape, what'sthe depth?
There's a lot of analytics thatgo into that.
Gautham (18:44):
And then you you got to make sure that you've got stuff
that's new, that you cansupport, and you got to market
it.
You got to put it in front ofpeople you talked about
freshness, identifying freshnessand so forth.
We see, especially in thefashion when I teach classes,
people most of the time ontiktok and instagram talking
about fashion trends andcapturing what's fashion.
How does the company stayabreast of that, like in that
10% that you just talked about?
Deirdre (19:01):
A lot of it is shopping and market research, you know,
and it is.
You know, you're out and you'revisiting different countries and
you're watching people andyou're going to shops and every
brand has a brand that they lookat or someone that they aspire
to, that they watch, they lookat, or someone that they aspire
(19:22):
to, that they watch, that theyuse to.
You know, as a bellwether ofchange and trend, and that's, I
mean, that's one of the bestparts of the job is, you know,
really being out there, being inthe streets looking at fashion.
That's a big part of it.
And then there's, but there'salso publications, and now
you've got the McKinsey's.
What's happening.
You know the state of fashion.
You've got tons of, tons ofinformation that's coming in,
(19:43):
but that's, you know, in the, inthe process, I would say, like
when you're thinking about whata product lifecycle calendar is
time for for research, productresearch, consumer research, and
you know I talked about NewBalance a little bit but being
in markets and traveling andmaking sure that you are seeing
and meeting and talking, allthat is really important.
Rich (20:05):
So I'm going to pivot to consumer behavior and I'm
tempted, at some point, to askyou, since there's no such thing
as a perfect balance are you51-49 art or science?
Depends who I'm talking to areyou 51, 49 art or science.
(20:26):
So, from a consumer behaviorperspective, what changes have
you seen throughout your careerand, as you look forward, how do
you think consumer behavior isgoing to continue to evolve?
Deirdre (20:30):
You know, I think, the immediacy of information, of
trend of style, you know justthe obviously the digital
evolution has been massive andfrom where we started to where
we are now, and what consumersexpect as far as speed of change
, what consumers know as far asproduct and countries and their
(20:50):
exposure is, is, you know, it'sreally incredible.
You know, I think, probably youknow there's there's too much
choice.
You know, in the world ofretail and product, and I think
that is probably what you'regoing to see change as you look
forward.
Rich (21:08):
So how do you think that's going to impact students that
are looking at, or those earlyin their career that are looking
at, retail?
If we are indeed going toreduce consumption as a society,
how does that change someonethinking about this as a career?
Deirdre (21:22):
Well, I would make good choices with where you go.
I would say is this branddurable?
Does it connect to consumers?
Are they thoughtful from anenvironmental perspective, from
a sustainability perspective?
And then I think in thesimplest level is the product
and investment and is it durableand will it stand the test of
(21:43):
time?
Rich (21:44):
you know, those are the businesses that people are going
to invest in looking ahead,what do you think, beyond
consumer behavior, what are thebigger trends that you're
looking at?
Deirdre (21:52):
in retail.
I think the biggest I want tochoose my word correctly I think
the biggest consideration isstores and inventory and how you
think about that.
You know you go into thepandemic and every coming out of
the pandemic, every, everyone'sonline contribution has has
increased dramatically.
You know it's gotten to a placethat people never anticipated
(22:13):
and now we're back to stores andas a brand or as a I'll take my
, I'll take the brand out of itas a shopper, there's got to be
the expectation of newness, ofbeing able to interact with
product and having choice.
And so, as retailers and brandsbalance inventory and store
energy.
And how big do I want my storesto be?
(22:34):
I think that the future of themall, the future of the store,
how much inventory people aregoing to carry and is it
exciting?
Is that the biggest unlock forbrands, and it's a big one.
If the customer comes in andyou don't have their size,
they're not able to touch theproduct, they're not going to
come back.
Paula (22:52):
Deidre, that's incredible .
Thank you for that insight,especially into the nuances of
retail and how it all worksright and from the business
perspective.
Let's take another step andtalk about what advice you would
have for people.
So this is a chance to offerstudents and aspiring retail
professionals practical adviceand insights that either in the
(23:14):
industry, career or even justoverall.
If you had to boil it down toone thing, which may be hard,
what is the best advice you'veever received in your career?
Deirdre (23:25):
Uh, I don't think I can give you one, but I'll give you
, I'll give you, I'll give you acouple, because I would put too
much pressure on myself to comeup with the most critical piece
of advice, because you get alot, you know, I think that the
cliche one is that it's amarathon, not a sprint, and that
manifests itself day after day,year after year.
And I think when you're earlyin your career and you know the
(23:46):
person to the left you got apromotion and you've been in
this job for a year and a halfand you know these kind of
moments in time it really, overa long period of time, equals
out and I think constantlythinking about the longer term
view is super important.
You know, I think that you wantto be aggressive with your
career, you want to takechallenges.
(24:07):
All those things are important.
The other piece of advice thatand I don't know if it's advice
as much as a comment, but Ireflect on it regularly is I had
a boss who talked to me a lotabout tension and the tension
that exists in developing abusiness and it really connects
to how tightly or how looselyyou hold the reins, and I think
(24:30):
that constantly being aware ofthat.
Tension is super important forteams and products and how you
think about a business growingand you don't want to hold it so
tightly that you constrainopportunity and you don't want
to hold it so loosely that youlose control but how you, how
you manage that tension is, um,is super important.
(24:51):
I remember I think about it alot actually and it was really,
I think it was a goodobservation.
Paula (24:58):
Yeah, that's that hits home, especially as a mother or
with a family, I can imagine.
As a woman and being where youare, I feel like you've had to
navigate that tension more sothan other people is my
assumption.
Rich (25:11):
So any particular mentors that that come to mind that have
guided you.
Deirdre (25:16):
Yeah, you know there are, you know you have a lot in
there their friends and mentorsand colleagues.
Probably the one that standsout for me was a leader who's
really focused on developinghigh performing teams and he was
a I wasn't gonna use pronouns,but there you go a big believer
in good to great and spent a lotof time in coaching and
(25:40):
leadership development and itwas really a fantastic
experience and I think that theytook the role of leader and the
responsibility of leadershipvery, very seriously.
I appreciated that.
I learned a ton and model a lotof that behavior.
Gautham (25:58):
Lisa, good to great.
Yeah, Let me just ask you aboutyour leadership philosophy,
right?
So when I've talked to seniorleaders, they talk their two
approaches to mentorship focuson the top group or help bring
the bottom up, or maybe acombination.
How do you see things?
Because you have limitedresources, how do you develop
(26:20):
everyone in your team to becomethat high performing team?
Deirdre (26:23):
I do think that you you really focus on where you can
make impact and you work on teamskills, but you also focus on
individual relationships andwhere there is, I'm going to say
, a, an opportunity and atwo-way interest in development
is super important.
You've got to focus on yourleaders.
You know those are the folksthat influence the organization
(26:47):
Aligned messaging.
You know leadership behaviors,leadership principles, ensuring
that you as a group are sayingthe same thing sincerely it's
not a picture on a wall but thatyou've come to these behaviors
collectively and that you modelthem as a group.
And I said to someone in themiddle of my career every leader
(27:09):
is a person and they'refallible and they're going to
make mistakes, and forgivenessis important as well, so I think
that keeping that in mind iscritical.
Rich (27:18):
When you're looking at talent, what do you think is the
?
What's the most underratedskill set, or what's the skill
set that you really are tryingto pinpoint the most?
Deirdre (27:27):
You know it depends on the role 100%.
But I think you know anindividual has to be committed.
It doesn't mean they have toidentify with, but they have to
be committed to the brand andthe consumer.
You know have an appreciationfor that.
As far as a kind of a personalcapability, I think we got to
have a sense of humor.
(27:47):
That is that is is critical, andthen you know it, really it
varies by team and by position.
You know you want to, you wantto create a team that fills
different, different skill setsand different gaps, and what you
don't want to do is you don'twant to have 10 people to do the
same thing or think the sameway or look the same way.
You're not going to, you'regoing to miss things if that's
(28:08):
the case.
From when you get later on inyour career, when you're looking
at senior people, I thinkexecutive courage is probably
one of the most important thingsthat you need to have on a team
and that is, you know you gotto be able, you got to say it,
you got to mean it, You've gotto be able to speak the
unpopular.
So having that element ofexecutive courage when you're at
(28:33):
that senior group is critical.
Rich (28:36):
So you mentioned committed to the brand.
Yeah is critical.
So you mentioned committed tothe brand yeah and I we've
probably both worked for peoplethat believe that in order to be
a great merchant, you have tolive the brand.
Deirdre (28:48):
Yeah.
Rich (28:49):
Do you think that's necessary?
How are you defining committedto the brand?
Deirdre (28:54):
Yeah, I, I, I don't think it's necessary to live the
brand.
I think having an appreciationand commitment and understanding
it and understanding theconsumer, that that's the
commitment level.
It doesn't you don't have to bethat person, they don't have to
be you, but you have to knowwho your customers, know what
your brand is and be committedto that.
And some sometimes that thebrand isn't a brand, isn't for a
(29:17):
person and that's okay, that's.
It's just probably not theright match.
Rich (29:21):
So yeah, I've encountered those situations where it's it's
it's good to have buy-in, but Ithink there are times where
executives feel that you have tobe part of it in order to
understand it and sometimesthat's actually limiting because
you might not evolve as thecustomer evolves.
Deirdre (29:39):
Yeah, One thing I would add is I do think there are
places where credibility isimportant, and you know I think
about that from a performanceperspective and you know there's
an element of credibility thatis going to be important,
particularly if you are in frontof accounts or teams.
So there is an element of that,but I think appreciation for
(30:04):
the brand is the most important.
Gautham (30:07):
You know, when you said when Paul asked the question
about how would you distill itto one or two, I was thinking
you'd go in a very differentdirection, but I love what you
said.
It's a marathon, not a sprint.
And within that you also saidsomething that struck me very
close, which is not to compareyourself with others, right?
(30:27):
I have a six-year-old daughterand one of the two things I keep
telling her is like don'tcompare yourself with others,
just compare yourself with whoyou are and see better.
It's very easy to say it, Iknow, I say it a lot, but I
can't do it myself.
How do you encourage that inyour team to actually improve
themselves daily, not to drawthese comparisons and have that
(30:49):
longer term vision?
Deirdre (30:50):
Yeah, you know, I don't know if I could say, I don't
know if I can answer that on adaily basis, but I do think,
messaging that you're alwayslearning and that there's
something that you're going tolearn from every experience good
, bad.
You know, whatever categoryyou're in, whatever role you're
in, you know, for some youngerpeople where they may feel like
(31:10):
they've been in their job andthey've mastered it, that's the
opportunity to teach someoneelse.
So start to teach and show yourexperience and capabilities is
important and you know, theother thing is raise your hand
for the extra project.
If it's out there like, take it.
Rich (31:26):
All right.
So I have one last question,and then we're going to go into
the uh, the rapid fire.
What do you personally do forinspiration?
Deirdre (31:32):
Oh, um, I like to be outside so exercise nature.
Um, that's where I, that'swhere I clear my head, do a lot
of thinking, so that's that's mything.
No, electronics.
Rich (31:43):
You can actually do that.
You can get rid of theelectronics for a period of time
.
Deirdre (31:46):
I do Yep, yep.
So, and I can tell you, thereare.
We all have things where youare struggling to write a letter
or you've got something youhave to do, and I find that
getting some exercise clearahead, it will flow, and so I
think it's probably one of thebest things you can do for
yourself.
Rich (32:03):
All right, so I'm going to kick off the rapid fire round.
Quick answer, first thing thatcomes into your head.
I am going to give you a choiceon the first one either your
go-to comfort food or, knowingthat you've traveled to various
places around the world forproduct development, for trend
shopping, your most memorablemeal.
Deirdre (32:23):
Oh God, okay.
So my favorite meal is myhusband makes bucatini
amatriciana and that is insane.
It's so good, so my daughterand I will both request it.
I'm making that a lot.
And then probably favorite mealwould be Voltaire in Paris.
(32:44):
So the avocado and grapefruitsalad, followed by steak and
then chocolate mousse.
That's why I have to exercise.
Gautham (32:52):
Good choice, yeah, so we'll stick with the around the
world theme then.
So you said you enjoy beingoutdoors.
What's the?
If you could transport yourselfto any part of the world, where
would it be?
Deirdre (33:06):
So my favorite place to travel is Tokyo or Japan.
So, and that is whenever Itravel, I try and make that my
last stop because it's myfavorite.
So, but that is, that'sprobably probably my favorite.
But I, you know, I like to godifferent places, I like to
experience different things,lots of different places.
But that's, if you forced me topick one, that would probably
(33:28):
be it.
Paula (33:29):
All right, probably the most important question you're
going to get all day andremember.
It's the first thing that popsin your mind.
Will you sing happy birthday toRich Sure?
Yeah, I'm not a great singerbut I will, so you don't have to
do it alone gotham said that hewould lead it.
Deirdre (33:46):
Okay, rich is rich is 29th.
Rich (33:47):
Rich is 29th birthday, you bet what age do you stop
considering birthdays?
Deirdre (33:52):
never really.
Yeah, I'm not always certainhow old I am.
I lose track of that sometimes,um, but the day to celebrate
and eat cake for sure, well.
Paula (34:01):
Deidre, thank you so much for joining us, Thank you
Gotham, Thank you Rich.
As always, my podcast BFFs, andwe're just really excited for
this episode to come out.
So thank you again for yourtime.
Rich (34:12):
All right.
So you have to love it whenyour podcast BFF has a little
bit of surprise in waiting foryou.
So I enjoyed the rendition ofHappy Birthday, one of the best
I've heard.
But obviously I will edit thatout because I'm not sure how
it'll show up on a podcast.
But, gautam, what did you?
What did you think afterhearing from from Deirdre?
Gautham (34:33):
So I feel like a common theme.
I'm going to talk about boththe narrative style as well as
the substantive context and thenarrative style.
I feel like it's a common theme.
Like all these, leaders arevery precise in the use of words
and very elo.
I think it's important that wedevelop those communication
(34:59):
skills and keep practicing that.
It's something that's been aneye opener for me is hearing
these people speak and theaddress, no exception.
Rich (35:08):
Yeah, I would agree and I think it's one of those that I
mentioned it at the beginning ofthe podcast that she was one of
the first true retailprofessionals and not to
disparage those that I workedwith at Joseph Bank, because
they were professional as wellbut moving to New York City and
getting to work for what was atthe time the oldest retail in
America and just seeing somebodylike Deirdre, who had gone
(35:32):
through the Bloomingdale'straining program and that was
eye opening as well to hear hertalk about that and sit in
meetings with her and just seethe way that she conducted
herself, it was really that'swhat showed me what this
industry is capable of, and justsome amazingly intelligent
people.
The loss of leadership programsin retail.
Gautham (35:53):
You and I have had this conversation.
I do think conversation thatyou talked about with the
Bloomingdale leadership groupwas an important conversation in
(36:22):
the context of who we're tryingto talk to.
Rich (36:25):
Yeah, and I wonder.
We started a training programwhich I'm very excited about.
It's been very productive, Ithink to a year-long training
program and I don't know that.
I realized that they moved asoften as they did from buying to
the selling floor to buying tothe selling floor, and I know
(36:46):
we've talked to others that havetalked about that discontent or
disconnect that happens betweenheadquarters and the field and
you wonder and I'm sure thereare retailers out there that do
this but you wonder if that'sone of the things that is
missing and that you know, as anindustry we need to entertain
and bring back.
Gautham (37:06):
I think it's a long-term plan, right, it's a
systematic plan that requires alot of partners to work together
.
I don't know what the appetiteis and perhaps those programs
didn't pay the dividends.
Well, let's talk a little bitabout the other things that she
spoke about, and I want to startwith what I had asked her,
which is the product mixquestion and the level of
(37:26):
innovation in there, and I foundit interesting that she talked
about only 10% of newness, andI'm on record saying that.
Oh, I teach my class say 80-20.
And I wonder, Rich, is thatcommon?
Do you see that mix in yourexperience amongst the retailers
that you have engaged with?
Rich (37:46):
You know, I think it depends.
It's probably a little bit andI don't want to use the word
conservative it's probably alittle bit lower than what I'm
used to.
But I think it has to do with acouple of factors.
One, you know, I would imaginethat if you go to a fast fashion
retail, if you go to Zara,their proportions are going to
be dramatically different.
So I think part of it has to dowith the lifestyle of the brand
(38:09):
and who the customer is.
But I also think it has to dowith, again, she's a very keen
merchant with an understandingof what the customer is going to
buy and what her team needs toinvest their time in.
I remember my first buying joband somebody who was mentoring
me took me to a bar to celebrateand I was excited because I was
(38:30):
going to change the world and Istarted talking about all the
fashionable things that I wasgoing to develop, and this was a
menswear, and he was justlistening.
He said all right, I want youto stand up and I want you to
see what everybody's wearing.
As I described it, he said youcan do all the fashion and all
the newness you want, but it'sthe basics that are going to
sell and it's the basics thatare going to pay the bills.
I think it's successful if youdon't expend the energy on
(38:52):
things that aren't necessarilygoing to wind up on the top four
.
Gautham (38:55):
I'm curious what I also find fascinating in the
conversation about leadershipand how it evolved, right like
how she had to evolve as aleader from being a functional
to more of the executor thatlooks over the different
functions.
How was it for you, what, whatwere the challenges that it that
it took for you to overcomethat focus on being
(39:18):
goal-oriented towards yourfunctional performance, to being
more looking across thespectrum.
Rich (39:24):
It is probably one of the most challenging things.
It's tough for me.
I love to brainstorm, I love tojump into the mix and toss
around ideas.
I hate the sound of silence,the introvert that I am Problem
is is that you do learn overtime that if you, if you have a
title and you hold a certainposition, that oftentimes you're
(39:45):
going to shut down conversationand you're going to shut down
innovation because people don'twant to necessarily sit there
and disagree with you and you're, you're doing more harm than
good.
And so I think I'm learning thehard way with Deirdre.
I, I, you know, I.
It would be great to have adiscussion on nothing but that
learning path that she's gonethrough, because I remember her
(40:06):
back in the early two thousandsand having that kind of
thoughtful persona in the waythat I saw her present more, you
know, very analytical, she saidit herself, she, she
understands the art and embracesthe art, but she's a
data-driven merchant and so it'svery methodical, but it is a
real challenge.
Gautham (40:25):
I think even raising it above that right, I think it's
a challenge for everyone to beable to look across the spectrum
and not be so focused on whatyou own.
And I think, like I'll pitchfor academia in the sense that
you know we force our studentsto take these different classes
across different functionalareas I think it does pay off in
the long run, right, you getexposed to these different
(40:46):
domain areas and how theyinterconnect, and it's an
important point of view to haveif you're going up in leadership
, which is most people'saspiration.
Rich (40:54):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I took away from
the conversation is you wouldask her about you know,
obviously you can invest thesame amount in every person, but
to recognize who those highpotentials are and to invest in
those that are going to have thepayoff and that's challenging
sometimes and I think, as aleader, what you have to do is
(41:16):
you have to make sure that youcheck your bias and make sure
that you don't lock yourselfinto a position where you're
automatically assuming who'sgoing to be the top performer.
But I never had the chance towork directly for Deidre, but I
know people that have that haveexcelled in their careers as a
result of it.
Gautham (41:35):
So let me ask you this, Rich what else stood out to you
in the conversation?
Rich (41:39):
I would say that's probably, you know, just to
close out with a takeaway that Ithink is one that is good for
students.
Her answer on the question offailure, I think was I'm not
going to say surprising, but itwas somewhat surprising and it
was refreshing where I thinkmost of us, when asked, can
probably come up with a criticalfailure.
Either we dwell on it or wekeep this running list.
(42:03):
And I thought that her take onit of I've had plenty of
failures, I'm going to haveplenty more.
I learned from them.
I don't dwell on them, but Ilearned the lessons from it.
And then later on, when shetalked about her ability to at
times kind of disconnect anddecompress and how important
(42:25):
that is, and her ability to getaway to, you know, to work out,
spend time with her family, Ithink that is something that
more and more people need tohear.
I thought her take on failureand how she reacts to it to be
refreshing.
I know that Paula had to jumpoff, so I will close for her and
(42:46):
say thank you again to DeirdreFitzgerald for joining us on
Retail Relates.
I think this one's going to bea masterclass in product
development and branddevelopment and merchandising
and Gautam always a pleasure.
So, um, gautam, always apleasure, um.
So, on behalf of Gautam andPaula, thank you very much for
joining us today and we will seeyou next time.
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