November 12, 2025 • 49 mins
From NIKE to The Estée Lauder Companies — and now the football fields of Northern Ireland — Michael Smith has built a career around people, purpose, and progress.
As the former CIO of Estée Lauder, a 22-year NIKE executive, and a C-suite leader across multiple Fortune 500 companies in sports, fashion, beauty, and pharma, Michael shares how leadership principles transcend industries. He reflects on lessons from mentors, the power of feedback, and how technology can strengthen human connection rather than replace it. In 2023, he became the majority owner of Carrick Rangers FC, where he’s investing in community, inclusion, and opportunity. He also founded Tech Day of Pink and co-founded TechPACT to expand impact beyond work.
Hosted by Rich Honiball, Judy Sedjiny, and Guy Courtin, this episode explores how culture drives performance, how courage sustains change, and how true leadership reaches far beyond the boardroom.
Michael Smith Bio
Michael W. Smith is a business executive, investor, and philanthropist with more than 25 years of global leadership experience across technology, retail, and consumer brands. He has served as a C-level executive at multiple Fortune 500 companies across sports, fashion, beauty, and pharmaceutical industries, including former Chief Information Officer (CIO) of The Estée Lauder Companies and 22 years in senior leadership at NIKE, Inc., spanning technology, commercial operations, and supply-chain management.
In August 2023, Michael became the majority shareholder and chairman of Carrick Rangers Football Club in Northern Ireland — a passion investment focused on community impact, youth development, and expanding opportunity in sport.
Beyond business, he is the founder of Tech Day of Pink, a global initiative supporting breast cancer research, and co-founder of TechPACT, which advances diversity and access in technology careers. A lifelong soccer enthusiast and advocate for purpose-driven leadership, Michael continues to merge commerce, culture, and compassion to create lasting impact.
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Episode Transcript
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Rich H (00:46):
Have you ever wondered what happens when a global tech
executive takes his playbookfrom the boardroom to the
football pitch?
Well, for Michael Smith, theanswer comes down to one word.
People.
Hi, I'm Rich Honiball, and I'mjoined today by Guy Courtin and
Judy Sedjini for a conversationthat explores how leadership,
culture, and community connectacross every level of work and
(01:06):
life.
We are joined today by ourguest, Michael Smith, who is a
business executive, investor,and philanthropist with more
than 25 years of globalexperience across technology,
retail, and consumer brands.
He served as the CIO for theEstee Lauder Companies and as a
former Nike executive where hespent more than two decades
leading innovation acrosstechnology, supply chain, and
(01:29):
commercial operations.
In 2023, he added anothertitle: Majority Owner of Carrick
Rangers FC, a Northern Irishfootball club he calls his
passion project, and acommitment to legacy, local
pride, and opportunity.
Beyond business, Michael is thefounder of Tech Day of Pink, a
global initiative supportingbreast cancer research and
(01:51):
co-founder of TechPact, whichadvances diversity and access
and technology careers.
Lifelong soccer enthusiast andadvocate for purpose-driven
leadership, he continues tomerge commerce, culture, and
compassion to create a lastingimpact.
From the corporate arena to thecommunity pitch, Michael has
built his career on the samefoundation.
(02:11):
Invest in your people, empowergreat teams, and lead with
purpose.
Stay tuned for this episode ashe shares how feedback helps
shape his growth, how culturedrives performance, and how
small amounts of empathy canspark lasting change.
Welcome to another episode ofRetail Relates.
I am joined today by ourco-host, Judy Sejini.
(02:32):
How are you today?
Judy S (02:33):
I'm good.
How are you?
Rich H (02:35):
I'm doing great.
So, Guy, obviously you have tojoin us not just from a tech
perspective, but if we'retalking football.
Guy C (02:41):
Absolutely.
You know, as an as an agingsoccer player, Rich, like I'm
always looking for the next clubthat might need a 53-year-old
goalkeeper with bad knees, a badback.
Uh, but otherwise, you know,I'm ready to go.
Rich H (02:52):
There you go.
So it's our pleasure today towelcome Michael Smith to the
program.
And he fits the bill on acouple of different
perspectives.
Obviously, as a retailexecutive, having read his bio,
as the majority owner of theCarrick Rangers, and as somebody
with a strong tech background,but a leadership background
(03:13):
overall.
Michael, welcome to RetailRelates.
Michael S (03:15):
Thank you.
It's great, great to be here.
Nice to see you, Rich, Judy,and Guy.
Rich H (03:21):
So we've read your bio.
It's going to be a fascinatingjourney to go through.
We start with the same questionwith every one of our guests,
and that is narrowing down alifetime of accomplishments to
three pivot points, and they canbe professional, personal, or a
mix that have brought you towhere you are today.
Michael S (03:45):
Well, I think that in terms of things that have
really shaped my path, I'll goin chronological order actually.
One of the greatest influencesfor me in terms of my leadership
style was my father.
And, you know, I as a youknow elementary school, middle
school, high school studentoften traveled with my father uh
(04:06):
when he was on business.
He would uh, you know, thewhole family would go along in
the car.
And a lot of times the peoplethat worked with him would also
be in the car as well.
And so, you know, you'd havethis time to talk, you'd have
this time to watch that hisconversation, to see his
conversation.
Uh, and and then also just theopportunity over dinner and
(04:27):
other things to to talk.
And the one thing I learnedfrom him was his care for the
people that that were in hischarge.
You know, uh it's a term wedon't use often, but this idea
of like love your people, youknow, that's really something
that I learned from him.
And it's something that overthe years I had many, many
people tell me about uh how heuh how he uh really poured
(04:48):
himself into them and uh andalways had their back and was
always looking to createopportunities for them to
develop.
And and I will say it's the onething he was probably the most
proud of was how many peoplecontinue to grow and advance and
achieve their career ambitions.
Those moments I think reallyshaped uh my leadership style
and taught me the kind of theduty of care uh for for leaders.
(05:14):
Uh you know, I my first job outof college was at Autosone and
uh large uh retail discount uhauto parts company here in uh
North America.
I was fortunate, and this willdate me, but I I joined at a
time that uh the entire ITdepartment was really mainframe
computers, you know, COBOL,CICS, and I was the only person
(05:36):
who came in and knew anythingabout PCs.
And it gave me this incredibleopportunity to kind of be one
moment in the, you know, freshout of school, one moment
sitting down with the CEO andthe president and and talking
about uh what we would callanalytics today, but uh
reporting at the we would talkabout it at the time.
And what did they need and howcould you develop it?
(05:58):
And then the next minute, I'dbe hopping in my car and driving
11 miles down the road to thedistribution center, and I'd be
on the shipping floor trying totake apart a uh a printer or a
computer trying to figure outwhy shipping labels weren't
printing.
And so it gave me that uh thatthat experience really of kind
of you know working across uhfrom really from the boardroom
(06:20):
to the to the shop floor and andto learn that at a very uh very
young age.
And then uh and then I thinkthe the other pivotal moment was
my first major promotion atNike.
Uh one of the things that Nikedid really well is once you were
promoted, you had an executivecoach assigned to you.
And and that coach did a 360 uhas you would expect in a
(06:45):
typical coaching engagement.
I think that was the first timeI got real honest, candid
feedback uh about kind of theassumptions people made about
you, the assumptions they madeabout your intentions.
And and and I have to say itwas hard, you know, because it
wasn't all great feedback.
There was some good feedback,but there was also a lot of
things to work on.
(07:06):
And I think the thing that, youknow, the the first thing I
learned from that was to be veryclear about my intentions and
not just leave room for peopleand what's your rationale and
all of these things behinddecisions that you make to be
very transparent with thosethings, uh, so that you leave no
room for misinterpretation.
But maybe more importantly, Ilearned the value of feedback.
(07:28):
And I I learned how to workthrough it no matter how hard it
is.
And I learned over time withthese executive coaches, you
know, because every time I gotpromoted, new coach, new 360, I
also learned that it's a lotlike uh peeling an onion, right?
You address a lot of feedbackand you think, okay, now I'm now
I'm doing great.
And you get more feedback andyou realize, oh, there's more
stuff to work on.
(07:49):
And so it's a it's anever-ending, uh, never-ending
process, but uh to try to try tobe a better leader.
Rich H (07:56):
Yeah, JC Penny had that when I was first promoted into
the junior executive ranks.
They would send you to St.
Louis for the day for, I wouldmake jokes and say a series of
testing, and it ended with a a360 and a session with an
executive coach, and you wouldget that coaching card.
(08:16):
And it was, I will admit thatit was the first time I had a
360, and I've had subsequentones.
And it's hard not to tear up alittle bit and and take the
good, but you know, you end upfocusing on on the feedback.
Uh, you know, my follow-upquestion is is this the path
that you imagined, or does thisjourney surprise you in some
way?
What did you want to be whenyou were growing up?
Michael S (08:37):
Yeah, I think uh well, I wanted to be a
professional soccer player, sobut uh that didn't pan out.
Um but I um it's it's not thepath I imagined.
I I went to I went touniversity with uh uh pursuing a
humanities degree withconcentration in religion.
It was only kind of midwaythrough university due to a
(08:58):
engagement with part-time job Ihad while I was in college, uh,
that I learned I loved COVID.
And uh and so I scrambled andgot a uh got a degree in uh what
we called managementinformation systems at the time,
uh, and then leveraged thatinto my first job at Autism.
But uh I I didn't expect thispath.
And I certainly I didn't expectfrom a career standpoint to uh
(09:23):
to to do the things that I I haddone.
I mean, you know, when I when Istarted, I never envisioned
working for great companies uhlike Nike and like the Estee
Lauder companies.
Even when I got to Nike, mycareer ambition, the peak of my
career ambition was to be thehead of global distribution
systems, which is the departmentI'd started in, and I went to a
(09:43):
bunch of other things, cameback, got that job maybe 10
years in, and I thought I'dreached the pinnacle of my
career and uh I had achieved allmy ambitions.
So I so I never I never thoughtI I'd be doing the things that
I've had the opportunity to do.
Guy C (09:57):
Michael, this is great.
One one of the things that II'm hearing and I love for you
to expand upon too is you know,what did what was the one aspect
in your mind that kept you sortof flexible to understand the
next opportunity?
What you said is fantastic,right?
Take the feedback and build offof it.
I do think it's one of thoseareas where I've, you know, I
don't want to talk aboutmillennials and all this, but
it's like, is that lost in thisgeneration of being able to
(10:19):
take?
I mean, I'll freely admit, likeI, I, like all of us, like, you
know, it's hard to take some ofthat feedback, but I feel like
the next generation, will theyeven listen to it?
But what is the one sort ofthread that you saw for yourself
that allowed you to take thisfeedback, build on it, move to
the next step, and obviouslyhave a very successful career,
even though not in professionalsoccer, but in something else?
Michael S (10:37):
Yeah.
You know, people talk sometimesyou hear people say, oh, the
the work is not personal.
But for me, the work ispersonal.
You know, one of my favoritequotes is uh uh from Andrew
Carnegie, which is my heart isin the work.
And so when you get thatfeedback, for me, I I had almost
no choice but to say, How am Igoing to respond to this?
And and and in fact, my coachhad to tell me, like, some of
(10:59):
this feedback, you need todecide are are you just okay
with living with that?
Right.
And and maybe that's part ofwho you are.
Maybe you just set that asideand what really matters.
And so uh that was helpful andthat helped me deal.
And but as hard a work as itis, for me, it's always been
about, okay, well, how can I,how can I give the best of
myself and the most of myself?
(11:20):
And and to do that, you have tolisten for feedback and you
have to respond to to feedback.
I guess my advice when you isfor people is to say, you know,
we we should always be committedto kind of continuous growth,
whether that's curiosity,whether that's uh, you know,
being willing to learn more, touh to respond to feedback, this
(11:40):
idea of being committed tocontinuous growth is something
that I I've had the privilege towork with incredible CEOs over
the course of my career.
And the one thing they all havehad in common uh is this
commitment to continuous growthuh in all aspects of, and so I
feel like it is a little bit ofa let me stop.
I was gonna say it's a littlebit of a lost art, but I'm not
(12:02):
sure.
I I think it's just it's humannature to not want to hear
negative feedback.
It sometimes it's it's notnecessarily human nature to be
curious, it's not necessarilyhuman nature to to to be
committed to do the work to getbetter.
If it was, things would look alot different than they do
today.
Rich H (12:19):
I'm gonna take this down a little bit of a of a tangent
because I want to explore it alittle bit.
You talk about curiosity andhaving that recognition of where
you can improve.
Do you find that it's morebeneficial to work on your
weaknesses or to work on yourstrengths?
Michael S (12:38):
I you know, I will say I probably until I got to
the Estee Lawrence companies, Iwas focused mostly on working on
my working on my weaknesses andtrying to shore those things
up.
But one of the things that ispart of kind of our executive
learning, we talk about streetsand how do you build upon your
strengths.
And so I I would say my men'smy mindset has shifted over the
(12:59):
years and leaning intosharpening, honing, leveraging
your strengths is superimportant.
I don't think you can ignorethe areas where you need to
improve, but it's you don'tnecessarily pour all your energy
into that.
That's where you leverageteammates and you leverage peers
and colleagues.
And, you know, I I try to I'vetried over the years to build
(13:20):
teams that are, you know, madeup of individuals that are
absolutely stronger than I am inin many, many areas, uh, but
particularly the areas wherewhere I'm not as strong.
Rich H (13:30):
Yeah, I find that is a practice in retail, and G.
I don't know if you've seen itas well, where I find at times
retailers are uber focused onthe stores that are that are
red, the where the declines arehappening, those categories that
aren't declining.
And you can't ignore that, butthey're in overinvesting in that
(13:51):
at the expense of riding thewave of the green, either in
categories or stores.
And I think sometimes thatmitigates growth.
Judy S (13:59):
Yeah, 100%.
Michael S (14:01):
Find what's winning and scale.
You know, the things thataren't winning, then you know,
you do have to assess them, butyou can don't hang on to them
too long.
Rich H (14:09):
And I have a favorite buyer who coined a mantra, and
if she's listening, she willhold this against me.
But her strategy was to suckless.
And it's because she was in acategory that no matter what
effort she put into it, probablywasn't going to be green.
But she knew that if she couldmanage to less red, it would
(14:31):
make the green more green.
And and candidly now she'sproducing an increase.
But I thought that that was areal great sense of awareness.
Guy C (14:39):
Yeah, I I think it's spot on.
I think, you know, to use asoccer analogy, Michael, right?
If if you've got a center halfwho's got a great right foot,
like don't force him to playleft foot, like play on the
right foot, play on the rightside.
But I think it's the samething.
Like, I've talked to a lot ofretailers too about Amazon,
right?
And they're like, well, youknow, Amazon's fulfillment is so
fantastic and ours stinks.
I'm like, but you can't beatthem there.
So why waste the time and chasethat?
(15:02):
Because you're never gonna turnto your point, Rich, the red to
the green.
What are where are you strong?
Oh, you're strong becauseyou've got hyper-localized
experience that Amazon can'tget.
Double down on that.
You're never gonna haveairplanes and boats like Amazon
does.
So don't focus there.
And I think that's the lessonthat too often we ignore
personally and professionally.
And I think that's interesting.
I guess to follow on to that,Michael, from your perspective,
(15:23):
man, I love, love what you saidabout your father, right?
Love your people.
How would you think your fatherwould say, or what would he do
in terms of giving thatfeedback, right?
Because part of the love istough love.
Like we always hear that.
But what would you think?
How would your father handlethat?
Like, how would he, you know,for today's age, right?
How would he handle providingthat feedback?
And I love what you said tooabout, you know, if there's some
(15:46):
negatives that are just goingto be negative, if you can live
with them, live with them.
But how do you, how do you, orhow would your father sort of
express that to today's labor?
Michael S (15:53):
I believe in direct indirectness.
To your point, it's criticalthat you give that that tough
feedback.
It needs to be balanced with umacknowledgement of where
strengths are.
I mean, back to back to thisconversation we just had.
Acknowledge where the strengthsare, encourage people to build
on those things.
Uh but you but you have to getdirect feedback because if
you're not if you're not beinghonest with someone and you're
(16:16):
cutting around the edge, it'sit's it's only going to it's an
integrity issue, in my opinion,right?
And so uh it only erodes yourcredibility, if not with that
individual, with the otherpeople uh around you and that
are part of your ecosystem.
And so uh I I think even inthis day and age, uh direct
feedback is super, superimportant.
(16:37):
Now, how you decide to deliverit is very much about the
individual, right?
And understanding whatmotivates that individual, how
are they going to receive thefeedback?
But uh but it it still has tobe clear and uh in direct, not
hide it.
Guy C (16:52):
Do you think we're just not teaching some of this, these
skills in in the inundergraduate business or in the
MBA programs where, you know, Iwill freely admit, like too
often some of the classes I tookin that, it felt too flowery.
It wasn't like, hey, be directand here's how you're direct.
Do you think there's a lack ofeducation, formal education
around this?
Michael S (17:08):
I I'm gonna let Rich answer that one, to be honest.
But I I I just I haven't beenin the cla in the classrooms
enough to know, but but when Isee young talent coming out, I I
haven't seen that.
I haven't seen that be aproblem with the with some of
the the great interns that we'vehad.
Rich H (17:23):
Well, let me ask you you uh you were part of the first
class I taught at George Mason.
Was I a tough grader or did Igive you tough feedback?
Judy S (17:32):
No, I would say that most of your feedback was um
generally good feedback.
And I feel like that reallymotivated me to do the best work
that I could, honestly.
Um I've experienced both goodand bad feedback, and I would
say whenever you know mistakeson my papers or in research,
when the feedback was negative,but given in a nicer way, that's
when I wanted to improve themost, I would say.
(17:53):
Um and Michael, I wanted to goahead and ask you the next
question.
So you've held a lot of rolesum throughout your career
technology, supply chain, sales,customer service, and more.
Um, what common threads haveyou found along your journey?
Michael S (18:06):
You know, I I think the the the biggest ones, first
of all, uh regardless of the thefunction for the industry or um
that you're in or the company,uh culture, culture is the key.
You can have great strategies,you can have great uh plans, you
can even have great talent, um,great brands.
But if the if the culture isnot the right culture to support
(18:29):
a high performance team, a highperformance organization, uh
it's it's it's not gonna work.
The other thread I see in allof these kind of functions and
disciplines is you know, peopleare the difference between good
and great.
You're gonna go back to youhave good culture, you have
great strategy, great process.
The quality of people you putin that mix is gonna determine
(18:50):
whether you're you're great andexceptional and making massive
impacts, or if you're just goodor you're just solid.
And so people are people arereally the key.
And then and then the third oneis people always need purpose.
They need to understand whatthe impact is and why it's
important.
And it has to be somethingthat's bigger than themselves.
And and and to me, those threethings always hold true, um,
(19:14):
kind of regardless of where uhof where you're at, or kind of
common threads throughout.
Guy C (19:19):
Oh, when you look today, you know, if you can give us
sort of what is your sense orwhat are the challenges when you
look at retail, right?
The technology innovation, thepeople, right?
I think that's an importantpart.
Where where are all of thishappening?
And and with sort of the theumbrella of, of course, now all
we hear about is AI, AI, AI.
But what are you seeing, orwhat what was your journey in
this and where do you see ittoday?
Michael S (19:39):
You know, I I think I think AI is a a good kind of
point to anchor on to answerthis with, right?
Because it is the newest uhtechnology.
It's the it represents afundamental shift, right?
It's it's it's not uh and andthe time is now.
It's not like uh a couple ofyears ago when we were into to
metaverse and everything else,and which by the way, we'll
(20:01):
we'll see it's time at somepoint, but uh, but the idea and
the vision was way far and thehype was way far ahead of
reality.
Whereas AI is is really ishere, really is a fundamental
shift.
So it's a good thing to anchoron.
What I would say the bigchallenges that I found is one
is I'll go back, culture is key.
You have to have a culturethat's willing to accept change,
(20:22):
to embrace change, uh, and tryto try to drive change.
And the biggest challenge Ifind is risk aversion.
I think, particularly in tech,everything we learn in tech uh
tends to teach us aboutminimizing risk.
I would also argue that that Ifound retail to be largely risk,
risk averse.
(20:42):
Don't get me wrong, riskmanagement is a critical skill
that every C level executiveshould have.
They should have anappreciation of understanding
what the risks are, how tomanage those risks.
But what I learned at Nike uhwas the right balance of when do
you take a risk and be willingto take a risk and understand
what those parameters are.
(21:02):
And so for me, the biggestchallenge that I see is this
idea of risk aversion.
And so you see that going backto AI, you see that now in the
way companies are are deployingAI solutions.
You have you have one groupthat that that thinks they're
going big on AI and that they'retransformational, and you have
another another set that aresaying, well, we're we're
(21:23):
experimenting and we're gonnascale some things, we're gonna
scale some pilots.
The reality is the the the onesthat think they're going big
really most of them aren't.
And the ones that are dabblingare just never they're never
gonna scale these projects tomake a real difference.
And so this idea of just reallybeing able to do something too
(21:43):
truly transformational, uh, youhave to have the right culture,
you have to have the rightappetite for risk.
And uh I see that as thebiggest challenge for innovation
in uh in retail right now.
Rich H (21:53):
What led you to end up in the tech space based on where
you started?
Michael S (22:00):
I mean, I did start in tech the first job, but uh
then I did a whole bunch ofother things and came back to
tech.
I you know, I I think what onceI was there, I felt like I
could make an impact.
It was an area that um I feltlike had the most impact on the
broadest impact and the mostpotential for impact, not just
on companies, but on industries.
When you look at things likeNike ID, which was very, very
(22:25):
early days, uh being able tocustomize your shoe, Nike Plus,
ability to drive uh globale-commerce at Mylan, the
opportunities to to improvepatient outcomes through you
know connected, digitallyconnected uh drug delivery
devices, um, things we've doneat uh S Day with with the uh
(22:45):
voice enabled makeup assistantthat that provides confidence
and really confidence andindependence for people that are
visually impaired.
You know, the the list goes onand on.
These are things you can doattack that you're not
necessarily gonna otherdisciplines necessarily.
You open up new channels, youreach new consumers, you
potentially change the wayconsumers behave or even provide
(23:07):
something to consumers thatthey know they need it.
You truly can create somethingnew that exists.
Guy C (23:14):
Uh Michael, you mentioned so this is really interesting
because I love looking at yourCV, like you mentioned obviously
Nike, S Day and Pharma, right?
So two big massive brands, CPGwe all, and then
pharmaceuticals, where it's youknow, it's about patient wealth,
health, and well-being.
From that perspective, is therea common or or is there
something you noted, like whatare the differences between
(23:34):
these industries in terms oftheir adoption of technology,
but also in terms of you knowtheir openness to risk?
Michael S (23:40):
As you can imagine, uh pharma is the most uh I don't
want to say risk averse, Ithink the the most risk
conscious uh for obviousreasons, right?
You're you're you're talkingabout producing a product that
people put in their bodies.
And uh uh there's some veryclear, clear reasons to be uh a
little more conservative on therisk side uh with pharma.
(24:01):
I you know, I think the thecommon threads that I found uh
through the companies that I wasin is um the focus on the
consumer or the patient, in itscase may be with pharma, the
desire to innovate, uh, to reachthose consumers and provide
things that those consumers hadhad not had.
Obviously, there's big thingslike marketing, really
(24:22):
understanding brands.
I was at a genericpharmaceutical company, so uh we
were patient focused, but weweren't uh we weren't a big
marketing company, we weren't abig branding type of company,
uh, but we were focused oninnovation, we're focused on
superior products.
And uh, you know, I find thosethings uh consistent across all
three of three industries.
(24:44):
The nice thing about when Iwent to S Day Lauder Companies
is I came from a background ofNike with retail, uh really on
true true Omni retail, biginvestment in innovation and
tech, great brands, uh greatproducts, uh all those things
translated.
But Nike in the fashion worlddoesn't really do their own
(25:07):
manufacturing, right?
It's all outsourced ascontract.
Whereas if you go to pharma,the nature of the manufacturing
is very similar to themanufacturing of cosmetics
products.
And so there's not a lot ofdifference between them.
They're both uh regulated bythe FDA.
At Myland, we owned our own uhmanufacturing.
So it was really a mashup ofthose two experiences back
(25:30):
through the supply chain all theway to the consumer.
Really was a was a nice fit anduh something that uh just felt
all right.
Judy S (25:40):
Okay, so throughout all the businesses you've worked on
and various positions, was therea specific trait or
characteristic that makes itchallenging to work with
somebody?
Michael S (25:51):
Yes.
Um first of all, lack ofintegrity.
Anyone with a lack of integrityis very uh difficult to work
with.
Anyone that you find, and andthis is related to lack of
integrity, in my opinion, but uhanyone that's really just
self-serving.
And you know, I think we'veprobably all worked at some
point with those people thatjust is really about building my
(26:14):
career and building you know myreputation.
And and then those folks thatare just really narrow-minded,
that are not open to to newideas and willing, willing to
try some new things.
And that's where I go backagain to a little bit of this
risk averse.
But it's also just theinability to kind of take the
blinders off and see the worlddifferently.
Those uh folks, the ones thatare narrow-minded, those are the
(26:36):
ones that get disrupted.
You know, those are the onesthat uh uh ultimately are not
gonna evolve with the times.
Rich H (26:45):
So typically when I'm talking to my students or
interns or trainees, my advicealong the way has changed as the
as the business world hasevolved.
And for the first five years ofsomebody's career, I'm trying
to encourage them to not justpick a single discipline and to
explore as much as possible.
And then we start to findourselves specializing in tech
(27:09):
or in marketing or or logistics.
But having reached the C-suite,and I don't know that I've
asked this question before, haveyou looked at other areas like
marketing or like finance orlike HR and said, you know, I
could do that and that would befun?
And not from an egoperspective.
I won't I won't put that onyou, but have you looked at
(27:31):
another area and said, I think Icould do that?
Michael S (27:34):
Short answer is yes, but to to to your point, I I I
encourage uh whenever I speak toto interns or students, I I
always encourage them to becomethese T-shaped employees, like
you were talking about, right?
Broad experience across manyareas and and and kind of uh
deep expertise in one.
(27:54):
And I was I was fortunate inNike because as I said, I
started in tech and then I wentacross all these different
roles, and then I came back totech, and then that's when my
career really uh started togrow.
And I think I really benefitedfrom that broad experience.
But yes, I would there's tworoles, there's probably two,
well, I'll say three roles thatI would love to do at some
(28:16):
point, or would have loved tohave done at some point.
Love to head up HR.
I feel like HR is uh an areawhere you can really make an
impact on individuals.
I think marketing is fun, andyou know, I'm dabbling in that a
little bit now that withCarrick Rangers.
And then it's just a generalgeneral management role is is
always fun.
(28:37):
And again, kind of getting thatwith Carrick Rangers at this
point.
Kind of doing everything buttag at Carrick Rangers.
Rich H (28:43):
So let's transition into that because I you know I want
to have a little bit of fun withit.
And and full disclosure, I cameacross Carrick Rangers in an
indirect way, and I proudly owna share and I proudly visited
the stadium.
But I I love what you aredoing.
How did that happen?
And why did it happen?
And then Dee, I'm gonna let youexplore because you may need a
(29:05):
53-year-old uh aging goalkeeperat some point.
Like, though, I don't thinkthat'll be the case.
Michael S (29:10):
Certainly, if you're gonna play any position after
50, it would be goalie.
But uh, you know, I for me, Ijust I've always loved the game.
Uh I was the front end of thecurve of of soccer taking off in
the in the United States.
And um I just uh I've loved thegame uh in in in a way that's
hard to even put in words.
(29:32):
You know, and I I try I triedafter after college after
playing in college.
Um, and I I wasn't a very goodcollege player, by the way.
I was mostly on the bench.
It didn't stop me from tryingout for teams and trying to play
professionally, and it justnever played out.
And so I kind of turned myattention to uh would I have the
opportunity to own a team?
And even right after I startedat Nike, I I looked at a uh a
(29:54):
regional kind of semi-pro teamhere in the Portland area, and
uh and I realized pretty quicklythat I could afford to buy the
team, but I couldn't afford torun the team.
It was just losing money leftand left and right.
And so kind of put it on theside burner for a few years uh
till my career grew.
And then then I started playingaround with um at clubs include
mostly around the nationalleague.
(30:15):
This was before the wholeWrexham story.
And you know, back then youcould you could purchase a club
for a pound or two pounds, butyou were assuming millions of
dollars of debt.
Whenever I would really getserious about looking into
something, there was no path,there was no path to
profitability at the time.
That that's probably differentnow that they have big TV deals
(30:36):
and everything else, even downto the fifth division.
But um, and and there's a lotmore sharing of uh money across
UEFA and and those types ofthings.
But I'll go back to Who uh, youknow, it was shortly after my
father had passed, was onvacation, was just kind of
reflecting and realizing, youknow, pretty quickly how how
short life really is.
(30:56):
And if I was going to getserious about something, I was
it now was the time to do it.
And I picked up the phone andcalled a gentleman named Steve
Paris, who I'd uh worked with onsome other things, and he
connected me to uh to one of hisinterns who was uh did a
tremendous amount of research onclubs and leagues and
everything else.
And the first one he told meabout was Carrick Rangers.
(31:17):
Sounded great, but I said,let's just keep looking, let's
find other options.
And uh, and we kept looking,but I kept coming back to
Carrick Rangers.
And uh once I once I had a uh aZoom call with the chairman, it
just felt right.
I went over, visited uh withthe board, the coaching staff,
and uh it did it just thecommitment to the community, the
(31:39):
project that it rec that itrepresents to to potentially
make a massive impact in thatcommunity uh was something that
was just too good to pass up.
Guy C (31:48):
Michael, uh a question about that too, right?
So obviously managing a a footyteam is very different than
managing an IT department or butI find like the proofs and the
pudding in soccer, and we're insport, right?
It's the scoreboard, it's howwell you're doing, and you want
to provide players feedback.
So that that 365 view, like howdo have you taken some of those
learnings from yourprofessional life and how have
(32:09):
you infused them, you know, withyour soccer club?
Because I'm assuming Ishouldn't, but you know, you
probably have a bunch ofteenagers or early 20s played
football with lives, they'reprobably been the best player in
their little village, and nowthey're playing professionally
and they have aspirations, andyou're not gonna tell them that
you're not gonna play for theNorth Ireland national team
anytime soon.
But you also want to build thatcamaraderie, that team, and and
(32:30):
get the best out of them.
Are there some lessons you'vetaken from Estee Lauder and Nike
and other places and havedeployed them now in a sporting
venue?
Michael S (32:37):
Yes and no, but not but not so not so much with the
the the players.
And and by the way, our benchthe other night, our bench to
people on the field range from16 to 38, right?
So we we have some pretty uhexperienced players and uh the
the 38-year-old, by the way, inAugust won player of the month
for the league.
(32:58):
So he's he's one of these guysthat is uh ageless, basically.
He's just as fast now as he waswhen he was 20.
I guess one of the lessons I'veI've applied is uh you see
great talent and uh and youempower.
In that sense, I've applied itbecause we went out and we got
one of the best managers in thehistory of uh of the Iris League
(33:18):
and Steven Baxter, and he'sempowered, right?
He makes all the decisionsrelated to football.
And now that means he'saccountable for those decisions
and the results that they uhthat they produce or fail to
produce, uh fortunatelyproducing.
But I I would say I I've kindof applied that lesson of
seeking great talent andempowering them.
(33:39):
And and it's true.
We have a great board, greatboard of directors.
I uh, you know, I haven't madeany changes to that over the
over the couple of years.
Uh our chairman is also a majorshareholder that uh I actually
purchased my share from him, uh,but he remains a major
shareholder.
They they're doing a phenomenaljob, and uh you keep great
talent in place and you youempower them to do the work and
(34:02):
you you get in and you helpwhere where needed.
And and and for me, I'm I findmyself doing a little of uh a
little of everything actually,uh, but it's mostly helping
other people where they needhelp and or taking try to take a
burden off of people wherethere might be a burden.
Rich H (34:17):
Well, and I see that, and it's what led me to ask the
question, and I thought you weregoing to say marketing, because
I see that in the emails thatyou send to the the
stakeholders, the shareholdersof the team, that level of
transparency and authenticitywhen it comes to things like the
jerseys and that sense ofcommunity.
And I had shared with you thetaxi ride where the driver was
(34:38):
talking about how whoever justbought the Carrick Rangers has
been investing in the community.
And I don't think I shared thisstory, but when my wife and I
were there, obviously the thepitch was closed, there was an
older gentleman who lived therewho walked us around to the
upper part of the ramp so wecould get a better view of the
of the pitch.
And he had that investment inthe in the team, in the in the
(35:02):
community.
So it's interesting to seethat.
It does that come natural toyou?
Is it things that you'velearned by watching what's gone
on in retail?
What are you channeling forthat?
Michael S (35:15):
It feels like it comes naturally, but I I think I
I think it is all things I'vekind of learned from really
learning quite frankly from myNike days growing up in Nike
with 20, 22 something years andand and watching great leaders
there.
And you know, one thing youmentioned was authenticity and
transparency.
That that was one thing thatwas so highly valued at uh at
(35:35):
Nike.
And you know, just I it gets soingrained in your DNA, it's
hard to know what it what did Ilearn versus what what just came
uh came naturally.
But then the ability to applythat in in different companies
down the road is uh only kind ofcontinued at home home that
wanted to let you jump in.
Judy S (35:53):
What's something people think about your area of
expertise?
Uh that's completely wrong.
Michael S (35:58):
Probably that you have to be deeply, deeply
technical.
Whenever I talk about being aCIO or being in the the tech
industry, I think immediately uha lot of people think that I,
you know, that I'm gonna bedeeply, deeply technical, and
that's not the the case and uhtechnically savvy and can go
deep in certain areas.
The key is more about how youlead, you know, other other kind
(36:19):
of what I would considersofter's softer skills.
Judy S (36:22):
All right, that's good to hear, especially with
everybody knowing how to codelately.
Um I'm not I don't know how tocode at all, so I'm like, am I
behind in something?
Michael S (36:30):
Yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to diminish.
I I feel like um I was at afairly small conference
actually, and Tim Cook was uhspeaking and and he talked about
the fact that he believed thateverybody should learn coding as
a second language before theylearn you know a spoken second
language.
I don't know that I agree withthat 100%, but there's a lot, a
(36:52):
lot of truth to that.
Rich H (36:53):
Was it before or after he released the AirPods It'll
Translate Anything for You?
This was this was quite a whilebefore that.
He knew it was coming.
Yeah, probably probably so so.
If anybody is listening tothis, they won't see that Gee is
representing Pink today.
But it is a a good time to ask.
(37:14):
You're the founder of Tech Dayin Pink.
Yes.
How did that come about?
I hesitate to ask howmeaningful it is because I I've
seen the post on LinkedIn, I'veseen you you share.
Uh I wore my pink Oxford uh onthe day I just forgot to post,
but how did that come about?
Michael S (37:31):
First of all, thank you.
Thank you for supporting it.
Thank you for giving me achance to to talk about it.
But tech the peak is uh wherewe rally the tech.
I it started with rallying thetech community uh in the mission
to end breast cancer.
Now we've we've expanded beyondthe tech community.
It's not uh not just limited topeople that are in tech, but uh
(37:52):
but that's where it started.
And the way it started was whenI first joined the Estee Lauder
companies in my very firstexecutive leadership team
meeting, uh, we had members fromthe company's breast cancer
campaign uh speaking to theexecutive team about uh the
preparations for what was goingto happen in October, which is
breast cancer awareness month.
(38:13):
And the breast cancer campaignis is Estee Lauder's largest
philanthropic effort.
They they do many, manyincredible things uh with
Alzheimer's, AIDS, just many,many different things that they
um clean water, huge number ofthings, but breast cancer is the
the largest effort.
And when you see the EmpireState Building or the Eiffel
(38:34):
Tower or the pyramids lit uppink, that's our regional
organizations that are that aredoing that.
Or you see products that are inpink packaging and they sell
that and donate the proceeds toVCRF.
These are the things I washearing.
And I was sitting therethinking, well, I I run
technology as cost center.
What am I going to be able todo to support the cause?
And so I decided at leastwithin the tech team, what I
(38:56):
would do is ask people to wearpink on the second Thursday of
October and use the hashtag Techin Pink2017 at the time.
And I would donate for everypost to uh the breast cancer
research foundation.
And so we did it.
And, you know, the entireorganization was in pink around
the globe.
And uh I started scrollingthrough that evening looking at
(39:18):
the different hashtags, and Irealized it wasn't just people
at S Day Lauder Companies, it'speople I've worked with at Nike,
people at Myland, somecompanies I'd been on the board
with, uh, a couple of ourpartners.
And I thought, you know, thisis an opportunity to really
rally to use my platform andrally a much bigger uh group of
people.
And so I reached out to CIOsand CTOs in my network and said,
(39:42):
for 2018, and said, Will youwill you join me?
Will you join me in rallyingyour teams?
Will you join me in donatingfor every post?
And uh and it's become uh thispast year, this past uh Tech Day
of Pink, which was October 9th,it was the ninth annual year.
You know, we've we've raisedhundreds and hundreds of
thousands of dollars, uh, tensof thousands of research have
been funded.
(40:02):
You know, this was the fourthyear for benefit concert that we
did in New York as well.
That benefit concert hasraised, uh now the number will
be right around $750,000 justfrom the benefit concert.
It's really opened up, I think,uh, this idea uh or this
understanding of how breastcancer impacts so many people.
(40:24):
Uh, you know, it's one in eightuh women will be diagnosed with
breast cancer.
This year alone, 316 women willbe diagnosed with breast cancer
in the U.S.
Uh so it impacts virtuallyeveryone.
And you know, what what we'rereally focused on is raising
money primarily to support thebreast cancer research
foundation, BCRF.
That's because BCRF, everymajor breakthrough that's
(40:46):
happened in breast cancerresearch, uh, whether it's been
treatment or prevention over thelast decade has been through a
BCRF funded researcher.
They're also the highest ratedin terms of money directly to
research.
And so that's why I kind ofpicked uh pick them.
But but I also tell peoplelook, if you're supporting any
(41:07):
uh organization or any set of uhgroups that serve survivors,
that's great.
It doesn't have to be BCRFspecifically.
The other thing I mention is alot of this research, these
breakthroughs are not justspecific to breast cancer.
They also have benefits andapplicability to uh many, many
other types of cancer, frombrain cancer to colon cancer,
(41:30):
different liver cancers.
The breakthroughs tend tobenefit uh other areas of
research.
Rich H (41:37):
I'm tempted to ask you what is the best advice that
you've ever received, but I'mgonna pose it a little bit
differently.
If you could take everythingyou've learned to this point and
go back to being in college,what's one thing you might do
differently?
Michael S (41:52):
I'm not sure that I would do much differently.
I I feel like my humanitiesdegree has been it, even though
I pursued a technology degree, Ifeel like it has benefited me.
My first job at Autosone, eventhough it paid a ridiculously
low amount of money, uh gave meuh tremendous experience uh kind
of working at all levels of theorganization that that
benefited me through the years.
(42:14):
You know, 22 years at Nike, alot of people would say, well,
why didn't you leave?
You could have been in biggerpositions, making more money
sooner.
That's probably true.
That's not what motivated me.
My what motivated me is youknow just making an impact.
And and and I I felt like I wasmaking a real impact in lives
of people, lives of theindustry, lives of the company,
and and and so I I have noregrets uh for for staying there
(42:37):
as long as I did.
I I it it's hard for me to saythat there'd be anything that I
would do uh differently, exceptfor, you know, I guess any of
the lessons I learned along theway, whether it was ask for help
or uh seek feedback, you know,those types of lessons I wish
I'd learned them earlier, maybe.
I guess the the other thing Imight say is it's not as scary
(42:57):
as it looks when you're incollege and you're about to
start.
You know, you're not nobody'sperfect.
And it a lot of it is howyou're gonna respond, respond to
mistakes, how are you gonnapivot from those.
Rich H (43:07):
And therein lies great advice for not just every
college student out there, buteverybody in an emerging career.
As we move into the rapid fireround, and I'm gonna queue up
Judy and then Gee to askquestions one and two, and I'll
ask question three while they'redeciding which ones we're gonna
throw at you.
If you could ask students onequestion, what are you looking
(43:31):
for in a career?
Michael S (43:32):
What do you expect?
What do you want out of a greatcompany?
What do you want out of a greatuh role and a great leader?
And you know, one thing that Ilearned at the SD Lard Company
is a huge benefit to me, is uhwe had a reverse mentor program.
And so we had more juniortalent actually be the mentor
(43:53):
for the executives.
And uh I had multiple reversementors.
And the and the idea was youknow, that that's a big part of
who our consumer is.
It's certainly kind of the newuh workforce.
How do you how do you make sureyou really understand you know
the Gen Z and so part of thatwas through reverse mentorship?
(44:15):
And so I highly encourage uhany more seasoned executives,
should we say out there to uh toconsider looking for reverse
mentors and people that can givethem a different perspective?
We always tend to think about Iwant somebody with more
experience, more uh years undertheir belt.
I also need to be thinkingabout the new uh new generation,
new workforce, and and myconsumers that are definitely
(44:38):
younger.
Rich H (44:38):
Well, again, and Ghee, that marries back to kind of
that harmony between personaland professional, because oft
how many, how many times do wesee retailers or brands that go
in search of a solution whenthey haven't identified the
problem or the goal?
Gee, why don't you go ahead andkick off the rapid fire?
Guy C (44:55):
I'm gonna go way off script here, Michael, and and
Rich is used to this, but uhthis is my favorite rapid fire
question.
If you could travel in timewith no impact on the world, so
would you go back in time orwould you go to the future?
Michael S (45:09):
Good question.
Um I think I would go to thefuture.
I believe I'd go to the futurejust because back in time we
can, you know, it's more known,whereas the future is completely
unknown.
Guy C (45:20):
And how far out in the future would you go?
Ooh.
Michael S (45:24):
Uh probably enough to at least see great grandkids as
as young adults.
Great grandkids as youngadults.
Guy C (45:32):
Very cool.
Michael S (45:33):
Judy, you're up.
Judy S (45:34):
Um, if you could transport yourself to any part
of the world without having togo on an airplane, where would
you go for 24 hours?
Michael S (45:41):
Transport myself anywhere in the world for 24
hours.
Rich H (45:44):
And you don't have to, you don't have to be concerned
with travel time.
Michael S (45:47):
Okay.
You can instantly get there.
Instantly get there.
Well, I I have told peoplemany, many times, uh living in
Manhattan on the the far eastside of Manhattan, if they
invented a portal that you canjust like, you know, you can
beam anywhere like they do onStar Trek, I would not use it to
go anywhere except cross town.
If I could just get across townimmediately instead of dealing
(46:08):
with cross-town traffic, I woulddo that.
But I don't think that's thespirit of the uh of the
question.
I'd want to go somewherereally, really, really remote.
And wow, I don't know.
I'm kind of torn between likesome completely remote beach or
like in the middle of uh thesavannah in the middle of like a
safari.
(46:29):
So somewhere one of those two.
I'm not sure.
We'll take that.
Rich H (46:32):
Okay, so I'm going to ask the final question and put a
little twist on it.
P and Judy are going to laugh.
So you can have a dinner withthree people.
They can be alive or passed on,they can be real or fictional.
What three people would youhave at dinner and the twist?
What musician would you add tothe mix who would be playing a
(46:55):
soundtrack for you?
Michael S (46:57):
Oh wow.
I'm not entirely sure.
I would I would want peoplethat had like on completely
different ends of the spectrumof political or religious
belief.
I would I would want a dinnerwhere there was like this real
deep conversation about uh aboutpolitics and um and religion
(47:20):
that was a real conversation.
I I'd want to learn from them.
This is the one question to behonest, Rich.
I was hoping you wouldn't askme because I'm not entirely
sure.
I think look, if I had to if Ihad to pick something I and and
I put it in modern modern times,I would probably go with uh
some bizarre kind of mix of likeuh Trump, Putin, and she or
(47:45):
something like that.
Rich H (47:48):
So I before before we get to the musical
accompaniment, I I love thatbecause and you'll probably text
me in 15 minutes and say, Iwant to change to these three.
Yeah, but I think thatcuriosity from opposite ends of
the spectrum is the intent of ofthe answer.
And I think that is you know,that's a powerful reflection of
(48:10):
of what we've just talked about.
Now, who would who would youinvite from a musician or a band
perspective?
Wow, with that with thatparticular group?
Yeah, I'm almost wanting towithdraw the question because I
don't know that you can assign amusician to that and and it may
need to not have music to it,but yeah.
Uh probably the probably thatgroup, maybe the Beatles.
(48:30):
Wow.
You know what?
There is uh I I like the logicto that.
All right.
Well, fantastic.
Michael, uh appreciate youjoining us.
Uh good luck with the CarrickRanger season.
Thank you.
I am looking forward tocontinue along the journey.
Now, are you in New York or areyou in Portland right now?
I'm in Portland at the moment.
Ah, good.
(48:51):
Okay.
Well, perfect.
Thank you very much for joiningus on Retail Relates.
Gee, Judy, pleasure to see youas well.
Michael, we'd love to have youback.
Maybe pick a topic and have aroundtable discussion.
We just don't know whether wewant to make it around
leadership, sports, politics.
Maybe we'll leave politicsalone.
Tech.
Michael S (49:09):
Yeah, let's leave politics alone.
Anything that unifies.
So that's what I'm looking for.
So outstanding.
Have you ever wondered what happens when a global tech
executive takes his playbookfrom the boardroom to the
football pitch?
Well, for Michael Smith, theanswer comes down to one word.
People.
Hi, I'm Rich Honiball, and I'mjoined today by Guy Courtin and
Judy Sedjini for a conversationthat explores how leadership,
culture, and community connectacross every level of work and
(01:06):
life.
We are joined today by ourguest, Michael Smith, who is a
business executive, investor,and philanthropist with more
than 25 years of globalexperience across technology,
retail, and consumer brands.
He served as the CIO for theEstee Lauder Companies and as a
former Nike executive where hespent more than two decades
leading innovation acrosstechnology, supply chain, and
(01:29):
commercial operations.
In 2023, he added anothertitle: Majority Owner of Carrick
Rangers FC, a Northern Irishfootball club he calls his
passion project, and acommitment to legacy, local
pride, and opportunity.
Beyond business, Michael is thefounder of Tech Day of Pink, a
global initiative supportingbreast cancer research and
(01:51):
co-founder of TechPact, whichadvances diversity and access
and technology careers.
Lifelong soccer enthusiast andadvocate for purpose-driven
leadership, he continues tomerge commerce, culture, and
compassion to create a lastingimpact.
From the corporate arena to thecommunity pitch, Michael has
built his career on the samefoundation.
(02:11):
Invest in your people, empowergreat teams, and lead with
purpose.
Stay tuned for this episode ashe shares how feedback helps
shape his growth, how culturedrives performance, and how
small amounts of empathy canspark lasting change.
Welcome to another episode ofRetail Relates.
I am joined today by ourco-host, Judy Sejini.
(02:32):
How are you today?
Judy S (02:33):
I'm good.
How are you?
Rich H (02:35):
I'm doing great.
So, Guy, obviously you have tojoin us not just from a tech
perspective, but if we'retalking football.
Guy C (02:41):
Absolutely.
You know, as an as an agingsoccer player, Rich, like I'm
always looking for the next clubthat might need a 53-year-old
goalkeeper with bad knees, a badback.
Uh, but otherwise, you know,I'm ready to go.
Rich H (02:52):
There you go.
So it's our pleasure today towelcome Michael Smith to the
program.
And he fits the bill on acouple of different
perspectives.
Obviously, as a retailexecutive, having read his bio,
as the majority owner of theCarrick Rangers, and as somebody
with a strong tech background,but a leadership background
(03:13):
overall.
Michael, welcome to RetailRelates.
Michael S (03:15):
Thank you.
It's great, great to be here.
Nice to see you, Rich, Judy,and Guy.
Rich H (03:21):
So we've read your bio.
It's going to be a fascinatingjourney to go through.
We start with the same questionwith every one of our guests,
and that is narrowing down alifetime of accomplishments to
three pivot points, and they canbe professional, personal, or a
mix that have brought you towhere you are today.
Michael S (03:45):
Well, I think that in terms of things that have
really shaped my path, I'll goin chronological order actually.
One of the greatest influencesfor me in terms of my leadership
style was my father.
And, you know, I as a youknow elementary school, middle
school, high school studentoften traveled with my father uh
(04:06):
when he was on business.
He would uh, you know, thewhole family would go along in
the car.
And a lot of times the peoplethat worked with him would also
be in the car as well.
And so, you know, you'd havethis time to talk, you'd have
this time to watch that hisconversation, to see his
conversation.
Uh, and and then also just theopportunity over dinner and
(04:27):
other things to to talk.
And the one thing I learnedfrom him was his care for the
people that that were in hischarge.
You know, uh it's a term wedon't use often, but this idea
of like love your people, youknow, that's really something
that I learned from him.
And it's something that overthe years I had many, many
people tell me about uh how heuh how he uh really poured
(04:48):
himself into them and uh andalways had their back and was
always looking to createopportunities for them to
develop.
And and I will say it's the onething he was probably the most
proud of was how many peoplecontinue to grow and advance and
achieve their career ambitions.
Those moments I think reallyshaped uh my leadership style
and taught me the kind of theduty of care uh for for leaders.
(05:14):
Uh you know, I my first job outof college was at Autosone and
uh large uh retail discount uhauto parts company here in uh
North America.
I was fortunate, and this willdate me, but I I joined at a
time that uh the entire ITdepartment was really mainframe
computers, you know, COBOL,CICS, and I was the only person
(05:36):
who came in and knew anythingabout PCs.
And it gave me this incredibleopportunity to kind of be one
moment in the, you know, freshout of school, one moment
sitting down with the CEO andthe president and and talking
about uh what we would callanalytics today, but uh
reporting at the we would talkabout it at the time.
And what did they need and howcould you develop it?
(05:58):
And then the next minute, I'dbe hopping in my car and driving
11 miles down the road to thedistribution center, and I'd be
on the shipping floor trying totake apart a uh a printer or a
computer trying to figure outwhy shipping labels weren't
printing.
And so it gave me that uh thatthat experience really of kind
of you know working across uhfrom really from the boardroom
(06:20):
to the to the shop floor and andto learn that at a very uh very
young age.
And then uh and then I thinkthe the other pivotal moment was
my first major promotion atNike.
Uh one of the things that Nikedid really well is once you were
promoted, you had an executivecoach assigned to you.
And and that coach did a 360 uhas you would expect in a
(06:45):
typical coaching engagement.
I think that was the first timeI got real honest, candid
feedback uh about kind of theassumptions people made about
you, the assumptions they madeabout your intentions.
And and and I have to say itwas hard, you know, because it
wasn't all great feedback.
There was some good feedback,but there was also a lot of
things to work on.
(07:06):
And I think the thing that, youknow, the the first thing I
learned from that was to be veryclear about my intentions and
not just leave room for peopleand what's your rationale and
all of these things behinddecisions that you make to be
very transparent with thosethings, uh, so that you leave no
room for misinterpretation.
But maybe more importantly, Ilearned the value of feedback.
(07:28):
And I I learned how to workthrough it no matter how hard it
is.
And I learned over time withthese executive coaches, you
know, because every time I gotpromoted, new coach, new 360, I
also learned that it's a lotlike uh peeling an onion, right?
You address a lot of feedbackand you think, okay, now I'm now
I'm doing great.
And you get more feedback andyou realize, oh, there's more
stuff to work on.
(07:49):
And so it's a it's anever-ending, uh, never-ending
process, but uh to try to try tobe a better leader.
Rich H (07:56):
Yeah, JC Penny had that when I was first promoted into
the junior executive ranks.
They would send you to St.
Louis for the day for, I wouldmake jokes and say a series of
testing, and it ended with a a360 and a session with an
executive coach, and you wouldget that coaching card.
(08:16):
And it was, I will admit thatit was the first time I had a
360, and I've had subsequentones.
And it's hard not to tear up alittle bit and and take the
good, but you know, you end upfocusing on on the feedback.
Uh, you know, my follow-upquestion is is this the path
that you imagined, or does thisjourney surprise you in some
way?
What did you want to be whenyou were growing up?
Michael S (08:37):
Yeah, I think uh well, I wanted to be a
professional soccer player, sobut uh that didn't pan out.
Um but I um it's it's not thepath I imagined.
I I went to I went touniversity with uh uh pursuing a
humanities degree withconcentration in religion.
It was only kind of midwaythrough university due to a
(08:58):
engagement with part-time job Ihad while I was in college, uh,
that I learned I loved COVID.
And uh and so I scrambled andgot a uh got a degree in uh what
we called managementinformation systems at the time,
uh, and then leveraged thatinto my first job at Autism.
But uh I I didn't expect thispath.
And I certainly I didn't expectfrom a career standpoint to uh
(09:23):
to to do the things that I I haddone.
I mean, you know, when I when Istarted, I never envisioned
working for great companies uhlike Nike and like the Estee
Lauder companies.
Even when I got to Nike, mycareer ambition, the peak of my
career ambition was to be thehead of global distribution
systems, which is the departmentI'd started in, and I went to a
(09:43):
bunch of other things, cameback, got that job maybe 10
years in, and I thought I'dreached the pinnacle of my
career and uh I had achieved allmy ambitions.
So I so I never I never thoughtI I'd be doing the things that
I've had the opportunity to do.
Guy C (09:57):
Michael, this is great.
One one of the things that II'm hearing and I love for you
to expand upon too is you know,what did what was the one aspect
in your mind that kept you sortof flexible to understand the
next opportunity?
What you said is fantastic,right?
Take the feedback and build offof it.
I do think it's one of thoseareas where I've, you know, I
don't want to talk aboutmillennials and all this, but
it's like, is that lost in thisgeneration of being able to
(10:19):
take?
I mean, I'll freely admit, likeI, I, like all of us, like, you
know, it's hard to take some ofthat feedback, but I feel like
the next generation, will theyeven listen to it?
But what is the one sort ofthread that you saw for yourself
that allowed you to take thisfeedback, build on it, move to
the next step, and obviouslyhave a very successful career,
even though not in professionalsoccer, but in something else?
Michael S (10:37):
Yeah.
You know, people talk sometimesyou hear people say, oh, the
the work is not personal.
But for me, the work ispersonal.
You know, one of my favoritequotes is uh uh from Andrew
Carnegie, which is my heart isin the work.
And so when you get thatfeedback, for me, I I had almost
no choice but to say, How am Igoing to respond to this?
And and and in fact, my coachhad to tell me, like, some of
(10:59):
this feedback, you need todecide are are you just okay
with living with that?
Right.
And and maybe that's part ofwho you are.
Maybe you just set that asideand what really matters.
And so uh that was helpful andthat helped me deal.
And but as hard a work as itis, for me, it's always been
about, okay, well, how can I,how can I give the best of
myself and the most of myself?
(11:20):
And and to do that, you have tolisten for feedback and you
have to respond to to feedback.
I guess my advice when you isfor people is to say, you know,
we we should always be committedto kind of continuous growth,
whether that's curiosity,whether that's uh, you know,
being willing to learn more, touh to respond to feedback, this
(11:40):
idea of being committed tocontinuous growth is something
that I I've had the privilege towork with incredible CEOs over
the course of my career.
And the one thing they all havehad in common uh is this
commitment to continuous growthuh in all aspects of, and so I
feel like it is a little bit ofa let me stop.
I was gonna say it's a littlebit of a lost art, but I'm not
(12:02):
sure.
I I think it's just it's humannature to not want to hear
negative feedback.
It sometimes it's it's notnecessarily human nature to be
curious, it's not necessarilyhuman nature to to to be
committed to do the work to getbetter.
If it was, things would look alot different than they do
today.
Rich H (12:19):
I'm gonna take this down a little bit of a of a tangent
because I want to explore it alittle bit.
You talk about curiosity andhaving that recognition of where
you can improve.
Do you find that it's morebeneficial to work on your
weaknesses or to work on yourstrengths?
Michael S (12:38):
I you know, I will say I probably until I got to
the Estee Lawrence companies, Iwas focused mostly on working on
my working on my weaknesses andtrying to shore those things
up.
But one of the things that ispart of kind of our executive
learning, we talk about streetsand how do you build upon your
strengths.
And so I I would say my men'smy mindset has shifted over the
(12:59):
years and leaning intosharpening, honing, leveraging
your strengths is superimportant.
I don't think you can ignorethe areas where you need to
improve, but it's you don'tnecessarily pour all your energy
into that.
That's where you leverageteammates and you leverage peers
and colleagues.
And, you know, I I try to I'vetried over the years to build
(13:20):
teams that are, you know, madeup of individuals that are
absolutely stronger than I am inin many, many areas, uh, but
particularly the areas wherewhere I'm not as strong.
Rich H (13:30):
Yeah, I find that is a practice in retail, and G.
I don't know if you've seen itas well, where I find at times
retailers are uber focused onthe stores that are that are
red, the where the declines arehappening, those categories that
aren't declining.
And you can't ignore that, butthey're in overinvesting in that
(13:51):
at the expense of riding thewave of the green, either in
categories or stores.
And I think sometimes thatmitigates growth.
Judy S (13:59):
Yeah, 100%.
Michael S (14:01):
Find what's winning and scale.
You know, the things thataren't winning, then you know,
you do have to assess them, butyou can don't hang on to them
too long.
Rich H (14:09):
And I have a favorite buyer who coined a mantra, and
if she's listening, she willhold this against me.
But her strategy was to suckless.
And it's because she was in acategory that no matter what
effort she put into it, probablywasn't going to be green.
But she knew that if she couldmanage to less red, it would
(14:31):
make the green more green.
And and candidly now she'sproducing an increase.
But I thought that that was areal great sense of awareness.
Guy C (14:39):
Yeah, I I think it's spot on.
I think, you know, to use asoccer analogy, Michael, right?
If if you've got a center halfwho's got a great right foot,
like don't force him to playleft foot, like play on the
right foot, play on the rightside.
But I think it's the samething.
Like, I've talked to a lot ofretailers too about Amazon,
right?
And they're like, well, youknow, Amazon's fulfillment is so
fantastic and ours stinks.
I'm like, but you can't beatthem there.
So why waste the time and chasethat?
(15:02):
Because you're never gonna turnto your point, Rich, the red to
the green.
What are where are you strong?
Oh, you're strong becauseyou've got hyper-localized
experience that Amazon can'tget.
Double down on that.
You're never gonna haveairplanes and boats like Amazon
does.
So don't focus there.
And I think that's the lessonthat too often we ignore
personally and professionally.
And I think that's interesting.
I guess to follow on to that,Michael, from your perspective,
(15:23):
man, I love, love what you saidabout your father, right?
Love your people.
How would you think your fatherwould say, or what would he do
in terms of giving thatfeedback, right?
Because part of the love istough love.
Like we always hear that.
But what would you think?
How would your father handlethat?
Like, how would he, you know,for today's age, right?
How would he handle providingthat feedback?
And I love what you said tooabout, you know, if there's some
(15:46):
negatives that are just goingto be negative, if you can live
with them, live with them.
But how do you, how do you, orhow would your father sort of
express that to today's labor?
Michael S (15:53):
I believe in direct indirectness.
To your point, it's criticalthat you give that that tough
feedback.
It needs to be balanced with umacknowledgement of where
strengths are.
I mean, back to back to thisconversation we just had.
Acknowledge where the strengthsare, encourage people to build
on those things.
Uh but you but you have to getdirect feedback because if
you're not if you're not beinghonest with someone and you're
(16:16):
cutting around the edge, it'sit's it's only going to it's an
integrity issue, in my opinion,right?
And so uh it only erodes yourcredibility, if not with that
individual, with the otherpeople uh around you and that
are part of your ecosystem.
And so uh I I think even inthis day and age, uh direct
feedback is super, superimportant.
(16:37):
Now, how you decide to deliverit is very much about the
individual, right?
And understanding whatmotivates that individual, how
are they going to receive thefeedback?
But uh but it it still has tobe clear and uh in direct, not
hide it.
Guy C (16:52):
Do you think we're just not teaching some of this, these
skills in in the inundergraduate business or in the
MBA programs where, you know, Iwill freely admit, like too
often some of the classes I tookin that, it felt too flowery.
It wasn't like, hey, be directand here's how you're direct.
Do you think there's a lack ofeducation, formal education
around this?
Michael S (17:08):
I I'm gonna let Rich answer that one, to be honest.
But I I I just I haven't beenin the cla in the classrooms
enough to know, but but when Isee young talent coming out, I I
haven't seen that.
I haven't seen that be aproblem with the with some of
the the great interns that we'vehad.
Rich H (17:23):
Well, let me ask you you uh you were part of the first
class I taught at George Mason.
Was I a tough grader or did Igive you tough feedback?
Judy S (17:32):
No, I would say that most of your feedback was um
generally good feedback.
And I feel like that reallymotivated me to do the best work
that I could, honestly.
Um I've experienced both goodand bad feedback, and I would
say whenever you know mistakeson my papers or in research,
when the feedback was negative,but given in a nicer way, that's
when I wanted to improve themost, I would say.
(17:53):
Um and Michael, I wanted to goahead and ask you the next
question.
So you've held a lot of rolesum throughout your career
technology, supply chain, sales,customer service, and more.
Um, what common threads haveyou found along your journey?
Michael S (18:06):
You know, I I think the the the biggest ones, first
of all, uh regardless of the thefunction for the industry or um
that you're in or the company,uh culture, culture is the key.
You can have great strategies,you can have great uh plans, you
can even have great talent, um,great brands.
But if the if the culture isnot the right culture to support
(18:29):
a high performance team, a highperformance organization, uh
it's it's it's not gonna work.
The other thread I see in allof these kind of functions and
disciplines is you know, peopleare the difference between good
and great.
You're gonna go back to youhave good culture, you have
great strategy, great process.
The quality of people you putin that mix is gonna determine
(18:50):
whether you're you're great andexceptional and making massive
impacts, or if you're just goodor you're just solid.
And so people are people arereally the key.
And then and then the third oneis people always need purpose.
They need to understand whatthe impact is and why it's
important.
And it has to be somethingthat's bigger than themselves.
And and and to me, those threethings always hold true, um,
(19:14):
kind of regardless of where uhof where you're at, or kind of
common threads throughout.
Guy C (19:19):
Oh, when you look today, you know, if you can give us
sort of what is your sense orwhat are the challenges when you
look at retail, right?
The technology innovation, thepeople, right?
I think that's an importantpart.
Where where are all of thishappening?
And and with sort of the theumbrella of, of course, now all
we hear about is AI, AI, AI.
But what are you seeing, orwhat what was your journey in
this and where do you see ittoday?
Michael S (19:39):
You know, I I think I think AI is a a good kind of
point to anchor on to answerthis with, right?
Because it is the newest uhtechnology.
It's the it represents afundamental shift, right?
It's it's it's not uh and andthe time is now.
It's not like uh a couple ofyears ago when we were into to
metaverse and everything else,and which by the way, we'll
(20:01):
we'll see it's time at somepoint, but uh, but the idea and
the vision was way far and thehype was way far ahead of
reality.
Whereas AI is is really ishere, really is a fundamental
shift.
So it's a good thing to anchoron.
What I would say the bigchallenges that I found is one
is I'll go back, culture is key.
You have to have a culturethat's willing to accept change,
(20:22):
to embrace change, uh, and tryto try to drive change.
And the biggest challenge Ifind is risk aversion.
I think, particularly in tech,everything we learn in tech uh
tends to teach us aboutminimizing risk.
I would also argue that that Ifound retail to be largely risk,
risk averse.
(20:42):
Don't get me wrong, riskmanagement is a critical skill
that every C level executiveshould have.
They should have anappreciation of understanding
what the risks are, how tomanage those risks.
But what I learned at Nike uhwas the right balance of when do
you take a risk and be willingto take a risk and understand
what those parameters are.
(21:02):
And so for me, the biggestchallenge that I see is this
idea of risk aversion.
And so you see that going backto AI, you see that now in the
way companies are are deployingAI solutions.
You have you have one groupthat that that thinks they're
going big on AI and that they'retransformational, and you have
another another set that aresaying, well, we're we're
(21:23):
experimenting and we're gonnascale some things, we're gonna
scale some pilots.
The reality is the the the onesthat think they're going big
really most of them aren't.
And the ones that are dabblingare just never they're never
gonna scale these projects tomake a real difference.
And so this idea of just reallybeing able to do something too
(21:43):
truly transformational, uh, youhave to have the right culture,
you have to have the rightappetite for risk.
And uh I see that as thebiggest challenge for innovation
in uh in retail right now.
Rich H (21:53):
What led you to end up in the tech space based on where
you started?
Michael S (22:00):
I mean, I did start in tech the first job, but uh
then I did a whole bunch ofother things and came back to
tech.
I you know, I I think what onceI was there, I felt like I
could make an impact.
It was an area that um I feltlike had the most impact on the
broadest impact and the mostpotential for impact, not just
on companies, but on industries.
When you look at things likeNike ID, which was very, very
(22:25):
early days, uh being able tocustomize your shoe, Nike Plus,
ability to drive uh globale-commerce at Mylan, the
opportunities to to improvepatient outcomes through you
know connected, digitallyconnected uh drug delivery
devices, um, things we've doneat uh S Day with with the uh
(22:45):
voice enabled makeup assistantthat that provides confidence
and really confidence andindependence for people that are
visually impaired.
You know, the the list goes onand on.
These are things you can doattack that you're not
necessarily gonna otherdisciplines necessarily.
You open up new channels, youreach new consumers, you
potentially change the wayconsumers behave or even provide
(23:07):
something to consumers thatthey know they need it.
You truly can create somethingnew that exists.
Guy C (23:14):
Uh Michael, you mentioned so this is really interesting
because I love looking at yourCV, like you mentioned obviously
Nike, S Day and Pharma, right?
So two big massive brands, CPGwe all, and then
pharmaceuticals, where it's youknow, it's about patient wealth,
health, and well-being.
From that perspective, is therea common or or is there
something you noted, like whatare the differences between
(23:34):
these industries in terms oftheir adoption of technology,
but also in terms of you knowtheir openness to risk?
Michael S (23:40):
As you can imagine, uh pharma is the most uh I don't
want to say risk averse, Ithink the the most risk
conscious uh for obviousreasons, right?
You're you're you're talkingabout producing a product that
people put in their bodies.
And uh uh there's some veryclear, clear reasons to be uh a
little more conservative on therisk side uh with pharma.
(24:01):
I you know, I think the thecommon threads that I found uh
through the companies that I wasin is um the focus on the
consumer or the patient, in itscase may be with pharma, the
desire to innovate, uh, to reachthose consumers and provide
things that those consumers hadhad not had.
Obviously, there's big thingslike marketing, really
(24:22):
understanding brands.
I was at a genericpharmaceutical company, so uh we
were patient focused, but weweren't uh we weren't a big
marketing company, we weren't abig branding type of company,
uh, but we were focused oninnovation, we're focused on
superior products.
And uh, you know, I find thosethings uh consistent across all
three of three industries.
(24:44):
The nice thing about when Iwent to S Day Lauder Companies
is I came from a background ofNike with retail, uh really on
true true Omni retail, biginvestment in innovation and
tech, great brands, uh greatproducts, uh all those things
translated.
But Nike in the fashion worlddoesn't really do their own
(25:07):
manufacturing, right?
It's all outsourced ascontract.
Whereas if you go to pharma,the nature of the manufacturing
is very similar to themanufacturing of cosmetics
products.
And so there's not a lot ofdifference between them.
They're both uh regulated bythe FDA.
At Myland, we owned our own uhmanufacturing.
So it was really a mashup ofthose two experiences back
(25:30):
through the supply chain all theway to the consumer.
Really was a was a nice fit anduh something that uh just felt
all right.
Judy S (25:40):
Okay, so throughout all the businesses you've worked on
and various positions, was therea specific trait or
characteristic that makes itchallenging to work with
somebody?
Michael S (25:51):
Yes.
Um first of all, lack ofintegrity.
Anyone with a lack of integrityis very uh difficult to work
with.
Anyone that you find, and andthis is related to lack of
integrity, in my opinion, but uhanyone that's really just
self-serving.
And you know, I think we'veprobably all worked at some
point with those people thatjust is really about building my
(26:14):
career and building you know myreputation.
And and then those folks thatare just really narrow-minded,
that are not open to to newideas and willing, willing to
try some new things.
And that's where I go backagain to a little bit of this
risk averse.
But it's also just theinability to kind of take the
blinders off and see the worlddifferently.
Those uh folks, the ones thatare narrow-minded, those are the
(26:36):
ones that get disrupted.
You know, those are the onesthat uh uh ultimately are not
gonna evolve with the times.
Rich H (26:45):
So typically when I'm talking to my students or
interns or trainees, my advicealong the way has changed as the
as the business world hasevolved.
And for the first five years ofsomebody's career, I'm trying
to encourage them to not justpick a single discipline and to
explore as much as possible.
And then we start to findourselves specializing in tech
(27:09):
or in marketing or or logistics.
But having reached the C-suite,and I don't know that I've
asked this question before, haveyou looked at other areas like
marketing or like finance orlike HR and said, you know, I
could do that and that would befun?
And not from an egoperspective.
I won't I won't put that onyou, but have you looked at
(27:31):
another area and said, I think Icould do that?
Michael S (27:34):
Short answer is yes, but to to to your point, I I I
encourage uh whenever I speak toto interns or students, I I
always encourage them to becomethese T-shaped employees, like
you were talking about, right?
Broad experience across manyareas and and and kind of uh
deep expertise in one.
(27:54):
And I was I was fortunate inNike because as I said, I
started in tech and then I wentacross all these different
roles, and then I came back totech, and then that's when my
career really uh started togrow.
And I think I really benefitedfrom that broad experience.
But yes, I would there's tworoles, there's probably two,
well, I'll say three roles thatI would love to do at some
(28:16):
point, or would have loved tohave done at some point.
Love to head up HR.
I feel like HR is uh an areawhere you can really make an
impact on individuals.
I think marketing is fun, andyou know, I'm dabbling in that a
little bit now that withCarrick Rangers.
And then it's just a generalgeneral management role is is
always fun.
(28:37):
And again, kind of getting thatwith Carrick Rangers at this
point.
Kind of doing everything buttag at Carrick Rangers.
Rich H (28:43):
So let's transition into that because I you know I want
to have a little bit of fun withit.
And and full disclosure, I cameacross Carrick Rangers in an
indirect way, and I proudly owna share and I proudly visited
the stadium.
But I I love what you aredoing.
How did that happen?
And why did it happen?
And then Dee, I'm gonna let youexplore because you may need a
(29:05):
53-year-old uh aging goalkeeperat some point.
Like, though, I don't thinkthat'll be the case.
Michael S (29:10):
Certainly, if you're gonna play any position after
50, it would be goalie.
But uh, you know, I for me, Ijust I've always loved the game.
Uh I was the front end of thecurve of of soccer taking off in
the in the United States.
And um I just uh I've loved thegame uh in in in a way that's
hard to even put in words.
(29:32):
You know, and I I try I triedafter after college after
playing in college.
Um, and I I wasn't a very goodcollege player, by the way.
I was mostly on the bench.
It didn't stop me from tryingout for teams and trying to play
professionally, and it justnever played out.
And so I kind of turned myattention to uh would I have the
opportunity to own a team?
And even right after I startedat Nike, I I looked at a uh a
(29:54):
regional kind of semi-pro teamhere in the Portland area, and
uh and I realized pretty quicklythat I could afford to buy the
team, but I couldn't afford torun the team.
It was just losing money leftand left and right.
And so kind of put it on theside burner for a few years uh
till my career grew.
And then then I started playingaround with um at clubs include
mostly around the nationalleague.
(30:15):
This was before the wholeWrexham story.
And you know, back then youcould you could purchase a club
for a pound or two pounds, butyou were assuming millions of
dollars of debt.
Whenever I would really getserious about looking into
something, there was no path,there was no path to
profitability at the time.
That that's probably differentnow that they have big TV deals
(30:36):
and everything else, even downto the fifth division.
But um, and and there's a lotmore sharing of uh money across
UEFA and and those types ofthings.
But I'll go back to Who uh, youknow, it was shortly after my
father had passed, was onvacation, was just kind of
reflecting and realizing, youknow, pretty quickly how how
short life really is.
(30:56):
And if I was going to getserious about something, I was
it now was the time to do it.
And I picked up the phone andcalled a gentleman named Steve
Paris, who I'd uh worked with onsome other things, and he
connected me to uh to one of hisinterns who was uh did a
tremendous amount of research onclubs and leagues and
everything else.
And the first one he told meabout was Carrick Rangers.
(31:17):
Sounded great, but I said,let's just keep looking, let's
find other options.
And uh, and we kept looking,but I kept coming back to
Carrick Rangers.
And uh once I once I had a uh aZoom call with the chairman, it
just felt right.
I went over, visited uh withthe board, the coaching staff,
and uh it did it just thecommitment to the community, the
(31:39):
project that it rec that itrepresents to to potentially
make a massive impact in thatcommunity uh was something that
was just too good to pass up.
Guy C (31:48):
Michael, uh a question about that too, right?
So obviously managing a a footyteam is very different than
managing an IT department or butI find like the proofs and the
pudding in soccer, and we're insport, right?
It's the scoreboard, it's howwell you're doing, and you want
to provide players feedback.
So that that 365 view, like howdo have you taken some of those
learnings from yourprofessional life and how have
(32:09):
you infused them, you know, withyour soccer club?
Because I'm assuming Ishouldn't, but you know, you
probably have a bunch ofteenagers or early 20s played
football with lives, they'reprobably been the best player in
their little village, and nowthey're playing professionally
and they have aspirations, andyou're not gonna tell them that
you're not gonna play for theNorth Ireland national team
anytime soon.
But you also want to build thatcamaraderie, that team, and and
(32:30):
get the best out of them.
Are there some lessons you'vetaken from Estee Lauder and Nike
and other places and havedeployed them now in a sporting
venue?
Michael S (32:37):
Yes and no, but not but not so not so much with the
the the players.
And and by the way, our benchthe other night, our bench to
people on the field range from16 to 38, right?
So we we have some pretty uhexperienced players and uh the
the 38-year-old, by the way, inAugust won player of the month
for the league.
(32:58):
So he's he's one of these guysthat is uh ageless, basically.
He's just as fast now as he waswhen he was 20.
I guess one of the lessons I'veI've applied is uh you see
great talent and uh and youempower.
In that sense, I've applied itbecause we went out and we got
one of the best managers in thehistory of uh of the Iris League
(33:18):
and Steven Baxter, and he'sempowered, right?
He makes all the decisionsrelated to football.
And now that means he'saccountable for those decisions
and the results that they uhthat they produce or fail to
produce, uh fortunatelyproducing.
But I I would say I I've kindof applied that lesson of
seeking great talent andempowering them.
(33:39):
And and it's true.
We have a great board, greatboard of directors.
I uh, you know, I haven't madeany changes to that over the
over the couple of years.
Uh our chairman is also a majorshareholder that uh I actually
purchased my share from him, uh,but he remains a major
shareholder.
They they're doing a phenomenaljob, and uh you keep great
talent in place and you youempower them to do the work and
(34:02):
you you get in and you helpwhere where needed.
And and and for me, I'm I findmyself doing a little of uh a
little of everything actually,uh, but it's mostly helping
other people where they needhelp and or taking try to take a
burden off of people wherethere might be a burden.
Rich H (34:17):
Well, and I see that, and it's what led me to ask the
question, and I thought you weregoing to say marketing, because
I see that in the emails thatyou send to the the
stakeholders, the shareholdersof the team, that level of
transparency and authenticitywhen it comes to things like the
jerseys and that sense ofcommunity.
And I had shared with you thetaxi ride where the driver was
(34:38):
talking about how whoever justbought the Carrick Rangers has
been investing in the community.
And I don't think I shared thisstory, but when my wife and I
were there, obviously the thepitch was closed, there was an
older gentleman who lived therewho walked us around to the
upper part of the ramp so wecould get a better view of the
of the pitch.
And he had that investment inthe in the team, in the in the
(35:02):
community.
So it's interesting to seethat.
It does that come natural toyou?
Is it things that you'velearned by watching what's gone
on in retail?
What are you channeling forthat?
Michael S (35:15):
It feels like it comes naturally, but I I think I
I think it is all things I'vekind of learned from really
learning quite frankly from myNike days growing up in Nike
with 20, 22 something years andand and watching great leaders
there.
And you know, one thing youmentioned was authenticity and
transparency.
That that was one thing thatwas so highly valued at uh at
(35:35):
Nike.
And you know, just I it gets soingrained in your DNA, it's
hard to know what it what did Ilearn versus what what just came
uh came naturally.
But then the ability to applythat in in different companies
down the road is uh only kind ofcontinued at home home that
wanted to let you jump in.
Judy S (35:53):
What's something people think about your area of
expertise?
Uh that's completely wrong.
Michael S (35:58):
Probably that you have to be deeply, deeply
technical.
Whenever I talk about being aCIO or being in the the tech
industry, I think immediately uha lot of people think that I,
you know, that I'm gonna bedeeply, deeply technical, and
that's not the the case and uhtechnically savvy and can go
deep in certain areas.
The key is more about how youlead, you know, other other kind
(36:19):
of what I would considersofter's softer skills.
Judy S (36:22):
All right, that's good to hear, especially with
everybody knowing how to codelately.
Um I'm not I don't know how tocode at all, so I'm like, am I
behind in something?
Michael S (36:30):
Yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to diminish.
I I feel like um I was at afairly small conference
actually, and Tim Cook was uhspeaking and and he talked about
the fact that he believed thateverybody should learn coding as
a second language before theylearn you know a spoken second
language.
I don't know that I agree withthat 100%, but there's a lot, a
(36:52):
lot of truth to that.
Rich H (36:53):
Was it before or after he released the AirPods It'll
Translate Anything for You?
This was this was quite a whilebefore that.
He knew it was coming.
Yeah, probably probably so so.
If anybody is listening tothis, they won't see that Gee is
representing Pink today.
But it is a a good time to ask.
(37:14):
You're the founder of Tech Dayin Pink.
Yes.
How did that come about?
I hesitate to ask howmeaningful it is because I I've
seen the post on LinkedIn, I'veseen you you share.
Uh I wore my pink Oxford uh onthe day I just forgot to post,
but how did that come about?
Michael S (37:31):
First of all, thank you.
Thank you for supporting it.
Thank you for giving me achance to to talk about it.
But tech the peak is uh wherewe rally the tech.
I it started with rallying thetech community uh in the mission
to end breast cancer.
Now we've we've expanded beyondthe tech community.
It's not uh not just limited topeople that are in tech, but uh
(37:52):
but that's where it started.
And the way it started was whenI first joined the Estee Lauder
companies in my very firstexecutive leadership team
meeting, uh, we had members fromthe company's breast cancer
campaign uh speaking to theexecutive team about uh the
preparations for what was goingto happen in October, which is
breast cancer awareness month.
(38:13):
And the breast cancer campaignis is Estee Lauder's largest
philanthropic effort.
They they do many, manyincredible things uh with
Alzheimer's, AIDS, just many,many different things that they
um clean water, huge number ofthings, but breast cancer is the
the largest effort.
And when you see the EmpireState Building or the Eiffel
(38:34):
Tower or the pyramids lit uppink, that's our regional
organizations that are that aredoing that.
Or you see products that are inpink packaging and they sell
that and donate the proceeds toVCRF.
These are the things I washearing.
And I was sitting therethinking, well, I I run
technology as cost center.
What am I going to be able todo to support the cause?
And so I decided at leastwithin the tech team, what I
(38:56):
would do is ask people to wearpink on the second Thursday of
October and use the hashtag Techin Pink2017 at the time.
And I would donate for everypost to uh the breast cancer
research foundation.
And so we did it.
And, you know, the entireorganization was in pink around
the globe.
And uh I started scrollingthrough that evening looking at
(39:18):
the different hashtags, and Irealized it wasn't just people
at S Day Lauder Companies, it'speople I've worked with at Nike,
people at Myland, somecompanies I'd been on the board
with, uh, a couple of ourpartners.
And I thought, you know, thisis an opportunity to really
rally to use my platform andrally a much bigger uh group of
people.
And so I reached out to CIOsand CTOs in my network and said,
(39:42):
for 2018, and said, Will youwill you join me?
Will you join me in rallyingyour teams?
Will you join me in donatingfor every post?
And uh and it's become uh thispast year, this past uh Tech Day
of Pink, which was October 9th,it was the ninth annual year.
You know, we've we've raisedhundreds and hundreds of
thousands of dollars, uh, tensof thousands of research have
been funded.
(40:02):
You know, this was the fourthyear for benefit concert that we
did in New York as well.
That benefit concert hasraised, uh now the number will
be right around $750,000 justfrom the benefit concert.
It's really opened up, I think,uh, this idea uh or this
understanding of how breastcancer impacts so many people.
(40:24):
Uh, you know, it's one in eightuh women will be diagnosed with
breast cancer.
This year alone, 316 women willbe diagnosed with breast cancer
in the U.S.
Uh so it impacts virtuallyeveryone.
And you know, what what we'rereally focused on is raising
money primarily to support thebreast cancer research
foundation, BCRF.
That's because BCRF, everymajor breakthrough that's
(40:46):
happened in breast cancerresearch, uh, whether it's been
treatment or prevention over thelast decade has been through a
BCRF funded researcher.
They're also the highest ratedin terms of money directly to
research.
And so that's why I kind ofpicked uh pick them.
But but I also tell peoplelook, if you're supporting any
(41:07):
uh organization or any set of uhgroups that serve survivors,
that's great.
It doesn't have to be BCRFspecifically.
The other thing I mention is alot of this research, these
breakthroughs are not justspecific to breast cancer.
They also have benefits andapplicability to uh many, many
other types of cancer, frombrain cancer to colon cancer,
(41:30):
different liver cancers.
The breakthroughs tend tobenefit uh other areas of
research.
Rich H (41:37):
I'm tempted to ask you what is the best advice that
you've ever received, but I'mgonna pose it a little bit
differently.
If you could take everythingyou've learned to this point and
go back to being in college,what's one thing you might do
differently?
Michael S (41:52):
I'm not sure that I would do much differently.
I I feel like my humanitiesdegree has been it, even though
I pursued a technology degree, Ifeel like it has benefited me.
My first job at Autosone, eventhough it paid a ridiculously
low amount of money, uh gave meuh tremendous experience uh kind
of working at all levels of theorganization that that
benefited me through the years.
(42:14):
You know, 22 years at Nike, alot of people would say, well,
why didn't you leave?
You could have been in biggerpositions, making more money
sooner.
That's probably true.
That's not what motivated me.
My what motivated me is youknow just making an impact.
And and and I I felt like I wasmaking a real impact in lives
of people, lives of theindustry, lives of the company,
and and and so I I have noregrets uh for for staying there
(42:37):
as long as I did.
I I it it's hard for me to saythat there'd be anything that I
would do uh differently, exceptfor, you know, I guess any of
the lessons I learned along theway, whether it was ask for help
or uh seek feedback, you know,those types of lessons I wish
I'd learned them earlier, maybe.
I guess the the other thing Imight say is it's not as scary
(42:57):
as it looks when you're incollege and you're about to
start.
You know, you're not nobody'sperfect.
And it a lot of it is howyou're gonna respond, respond to
mistakes, how are you gonnapivot from those.
Rich H (43:07):
And therein lies great advice for not just every
college student out there, buteverybody in an emerging career.
As we move into the rapid fireround, and I'm gonna queue up
Judy and then Gee to askquestions one and two, and I'll
ask question three while they'redeciding which ones we're gonna
throw at you.
If you could ask students onequestion, what are you looking
(43:31):
for in a career?
Michael S (43:32):
What do you expect?
What do you want out of a greatcompany?
What do you want out of a greatuh role and a great leader?
And you know, one thing that Ilearned at the SD Lard Company
is a huge benefit to me, is uhwe had a reverse mentor program.
And so we had more juniortalent actually be the mentor
(43:53):
for the executives.
And uh I had multiple reversementors.
And the and the idea was youknow, that that's a big part of
who our consumer is.
It's certainly kind of the newuh workforce.
How do you how do you make sureyou really understand you know
the Gen Z and so part of thatwas through reverse mentorship?
(44:15):
And so I highly encourage uhany more seasoned executives,
should we say out there to uh toconsider looking for reverse
mentors and people that can givethem a different perspective?
We always tend to think about Iwant somebody with more
experience, more uh years undertheir belt.
I also need to be thinkingabout the new uh new generation,
new workforce, and and myconsumers that are definitely
(44:38):
younger.
Rich H (44:38):
Well, again, and Ghee, that marries back to kind of
that harmony between personaland professional, because oft
how many, how many times do wesee retailers or brands that go
in search of a solution whenthey haven't identified the
problem or the goal?
Gee, why don't you go ahead andkick off the rapid fire?
Guy C (44:55):
I'm gonna go way off script here, Michael, and and
Rich is used to this, but uhthis is my favorite rapid fire
question.
If you could travel in timewith no impact on the world, so
would you go back in time orwould you go to the future?
Michael S (45:09):
Good question.
Um I think I would go to thefuture.
I believe I'd go to the futurejust because back in time we
can, you know, it's more known,whereas the future is completely
unknown.
Guy C (45:20):
And how far out in the future would you go?
Ooh.
Michael S (45:24):
Uh probably enough to at least see great grandkids as
as young adults.
Great grandkids as youngadults.
Guy C (45:32):
Very cool.
Michael S (45:33):
Judy, you're up.
Judy S (45:34):
Um, if you could transport yourself to any part
of the world without having togo on an airplane, where would
you go for 24 hours?
Michael S (45:41):
Transport myself anywhere in the world for 24
hours.
Rich H (45:44):
And you don't have to, you don't have to be concerned
with travel time.
Michael S (45:47):
Okay.
You can instantly get there.
Instantly get there.
Well, I I have told peoplemany, many times, uh living in
Manhattan on the the far eastside of Manhattan, if they
invented a portal that you canjust like, you know, you can
beam anywhere like they do onStar Trek, I would not use it to
go anywhere except cross town.
If I could just get across townimmediately instead of dealing
(46:08):
with cross-town traffic, I woulddo that.
But I don't think that's thespirit of the uh of the
question.
I'd want to go somewherereally, really, really remote.
And wow, I don't know.
I'm kind of torn between likesome completely remote beach or
like in the middle of uh thesavannah in the middle of like a
safari.
(46:29):
So somewhere one of those two.
I'm not sure.
We'll take that.
Rich H (46:32):
Okay, so I'm going to ask the final question and put a
little twist on it.
P and Judy are going to laugh.
So you can have a dinner withthree people.
They can be alive or passed on,they can be real or fictional.
What three people would youhave at dinner and the twist?
What musician would you add tothe mix who would be playing a
(46:55):
soundtrack for you?
Michael S (46:57):
Oh wow.
I'm not entirely sure.
I would I would want peoplethat had like on completely
different ends of the spectrumof political or religious
belief.
I would I would want a dinnerwhere there was like this real
deep conversation about uh aboutpolitics and um and religion
(47:20):
that was a real conversation.
I I'd want to learn from them.
This is the one question to behonest, Rich.
I was hoping you wouldn't askme because I'm not entirely
sure.
I think look, if I had to if Ihad to pick something I and and
I put it in modern modern times,I would probably go with uh
some bizarre kind of mix of likeuh Trump, Putin, and she or
(47:45):
something like that.
Rich H (47:48):
So I before before we get to the musical
accompaniment, I I love thatbecause and you'll probably text
me in 15 minutes and say, Iwant to change to these three.
Yeah, but I think thatcuriosity from opposite ends of
the spectrum is the intent of ofthe answer.
And I think that is you know,that's a powerful reflection of
(48:10):
of what we've just talked about.
Now, who would who would youinvite from a musician or a band
perspective?
Wow, with that with thatparticular group?
Yeah, I'm almost wanting towithdraw the question because I
don't know that you can assign amusician to that and and it may
need to not have music to it,but yeah.
Uh probably the probably thatgroup, maybe the Beatles.
(48:30):
Wow.
You know what?
There is uh I I like the logicto that.
All right.
Well, fantastic.
Michael, uh appreciate youjoining us.
Uh good luck with the CarrickRanger season.
Thank you.
I am looking forward tocontinue along the journey.
Now, are you in New York or areyou in Portland right now?
I'm in Portland at the moment.
Ah, good.
(48:51):
Okay.
Well, perfect.
Thank you very much for joiningus on Retail Relates.
Gee, Judy, pleasure to see youas well.
Michael, we'd love to have youback.
Maybe pick a topic and have aroundtable discussion.
We just don't know whether wewant to make it around
leadership, sports, politics.
Maybe we'll leave politicsalone.
Tech.
Michael S (49:09):
Yeah, let's leave politics alone.
Anything that unifies.
So that's what I'm looking for.
So outstanding.
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