February 6, 2025 • 42 mins
Discover how Sheryl Adkins-Green, a seasoned business executive, turned her diverse career experiences into a leadership and brand strategy masterclass. From her early retail days to her transformative roles at Kraft Foods, Citigroup, and eventually, at Mary Kay, Sheryl shares pivotal career moments and the unique challenges she faced. This episode promises valuable insights into maintaining healthy professional relationships, lessons from various industries, and leveraging one's unique talents and instincts.
Sheryl offers an inside look into the global brand strategy and marketing efforts at Mary Kay, discussing the challenges of maintaining brand consistency while empowering women globally. Drawing inspiration from successful retailers like Anthropologie and Disney, she emphasizes culture's role over strategy and personalization's power in creating memorable customer experiences. Young professionals will find Sheryl's advice on owning one's uniqueness and honing listening skills both practical and inspiring, as she underscores the importance of relationship-building in business success. Join us for a conversation that blends personal anecdotes with professional wisdom, equipping you with strategies to thrive in your career.
About Sheryl:
Recently retired from Mary Kay Inc., Sheryl Adkins-Green served as Chief Experience Officer and Chief Marketing Officer, where she played a pivotal role in shaping the company’s global strategy and supporting the success of millions of women entrepreneurs. Her leadership was instrumental in delivering a 360-degree integrated customer experience, elevating brand engagement, and driving business growth. With a career spanning over three decades, Sheryl has consistently demonstrated a passion for innovation, leadership development, and strategic transformation.
Sheryl’s journey in business began with a Bachelor of Science in Fashion Retailing from the University of Wisconsin, followed by an MBA from Harvard Business School. She quickly ascended into executive leadership, holding key roles at some of the world’s most recognized corporations, including Kraft Foods, Citigroup, Cadbury-Schweppes, and Alberto-Culver. Throughout her career, she built sales, marketing, and strategy development expertise, helping organizations expand their market presence and strengthen consumer connections.
Her impact in the industry has been widely recognized, earning her numerous accolades. She was named a Forbes Top 50 CMO Influencer and received Brand Innovators’ 2021 Top 100 Women in Marketing Award. In 2020, she was honored with the CMO Leadership Award, and in 2019, BLACK ENTERPRISE included her in its Most Powerful Women in Corporate America List.
Beyond her corporate career, Sheryl has remained deeply committed to leadership development and community service. She served on the Board of Trustees at Texas Christian University from 2016 to 2024 and currently holds the position of Vice President on the Dallas Museum of Art Board of Trustees. She is also an active member of the International Women’s Forum and The Executive Leadership Council, organizations dedicated to advancing diversity and leadership excellence. Additionally, she is featured in Valorie Burton’s best-selling book, Successful Women Think Differently.
A lifelong advocate for creativity and entrepreneurship, Sheryl continues to inspire through her passion for art, fashion, beauty, and business. She actively shares insights on leadership, brand strategy, and empowerment, helping individuals and organizations navigate change and succeed. Her legacy of strategic excellence and transformative leadership ensures that her influence will continue to shape industries and inspire future generations of business leaders.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rich (00:00):
It is our pleasure today to welcome Sheryl Atkins-Green
to Retail Relates.
Sheryl is a distinguishedbusiness executive with over
three decades of transformativeleadership experience across the
globe.
She is known for her consistenttrack record of delivering
results, developing leaders,driving top-line and bottom-line
growth, innovating marketapproaches and leading
(00:21):
organizations throughsignificant change.
Sheryl earned her Bachelor ofScience degree in fashion
retailing at the University ofWisconsin and later an MBA from
Harvard Business School.
Her career began in leadershiproles at major corporations,
where she built expertise insales, marketing and strategic
development in a variety ofsegments.
Sheryl has held executivepositions at globally recognized
(00:43):
companies, including KraftFoods, Citigroup, Cadbury-
Schweppes and Alberto Culver.
In each role, she strengthenedher ability to drive business
growth, enhance brand presenceand develop high-impact strategy
.
That brought her to Mary Kay,first as chief marketing officer
and eventually chief experienceofficer at one of the world's
leading direct-selling beautybrands.
(01:04):
In this role, she supported thesuccess of millions of women
entrepreneurs by leading theglobal strategy that delivered a
360 degree integrated customerexperience.
Her leadership and shapingcustomer engagement and business
innovation played a criticalrole in Mary Kay's success.
Throughout her distinguishedcareer, Sheryl has received
numerous accolades, recognizingher influence in business and
(01:25):
marketing.
Just a few of those includeForbes Top 50 CMO Influencer,
brand Innovators, top 100 Womenin Marketing Award, a CMO
Leadership Award and BlackEnterprise's Most Powerful Women
in Corporate America list in2019.
She is very active in hercommunity, having served or
continuing to serve in a varietyof positions, including Board
of trustees for TCU, texasChristian University, Vice
(01:48):
President of the Dallas Museumof Art Board of trustees, as a
member of the InternationalWomen's Forum and as a member of
the Executive Leadership Forum.
Additionally, she was featuredin Valerie Burton's bestselling
book Successful Women ThinkDifferently.
Beyond business, cheryl ispassionate about art, fashion,
beauty and entrepreneurship.
She actively shares herinsights on leadership and
innovation across platforms,inspiring others to achieve
(02:11):
success in their own careers.
It is an absolute pleasure tohave her on the program today.
Paula (02:16):
Sheryl Atkins-Green, thank you so much for joining us
in this episode of RetailRelates.
We are just absolutely honoredto have you, especially because
you have recently announced yourretirement from a little
company known as Mary Kay.
If you're a Texan, like me, youknow Mary Kay very well and if
you are a makeup aficionado, youabsolutely know Mary Kay or
(02:38):
have spoken to a Mary Kayrepresentative.
So, cheryl, thank you forcoming on to the episode.
I'll kick us off and have thefirst question, cheryl, for you,
if you're ready, I am ready,excited to be with you.
So, Sheryl, you've had a greatcareer.
Tell us a little bit about thethree pivotal moments in either
your personal life or yourcareer that have led you to this
(02:59):
moment, to where you are today.
Sheryl (03:01):
Sure, my career actually began in retailing.
My first jobs in high schoolwere retail, so this is a full
circle moment, so to speak.
Starting in retail.
I'll say the first pivotalmoment was the decision, as in
my senior year I had studiedfashion retailing at the
University of Wisconsin and, asI was approaching graduation,
(03:24):
had all the retail job offers,started to think a little bit
more long-term, not about what Iwanted to do right then, but
where was that going to take me?
And as I thought about a careerpath in retailing, I questioned
is there anything else I mightenjoy as much, if not more?
And I thought about why I lovedretailing.
(03:46):
I love the creative aspects, Ilove the consumer psychology
aspects and I love the businessresults.
And as I thought about what Iloved about retailing and
fashion, I started to look atother opportunities, and that
led me to consider both work atan ad agency as well as product
and brand management, and thatled to a decision to pursue my
(04:10):
MBA.
And so I went on to go toHarvard Business School and go
into a career in consumerpackaged goods.
So that was pivotal.
Next pivotal moment was when, atKraft Foods, I was offered a
cross-functional opportunity tomove out of marketing and
actually into operations andtechnology as a director of
(04:32):
productivity and synergy A bitof a career risk, but I was
excited to have an opportunityto really stand out from my
marketing counterparts and alsolearn more about the business so
that one day, in a broaderleadership role, I could be most
effective.
And then the third decisionthat I'll highlight was to
actually move out of CPG intofinancial services with
(04:56):
Citigroup.
Most people did not see me as abanker.
I didn't see me as a banker,but what I did see myself
potentially was as a globalbusiness leader, and Citigroup
offered that opportunity to worknot only in services versus
products, but still consumeroriented and also have broader
exposure financially to thebalance sheet, p&l, broader
(05:20):
leadership, responsibility andglobal exposure.
Paula (05:23):
First I want to point out you just glossed over the fact
that you went to Harvard, so Icaught that.
Very impressive.
And also I love your variedbackground, because right now
people with significant careershave that variety and background
.
It's only an asset to companiesbecause you have that ability
to look at different businessesand understand the business in a
(05:45):
way that no one can and bringnew ideas to your business and
your industry in a way that noone can.
Had they not had thatexperience in other industries.
Thank you for sharing that.
I want to talk about, if youwill, about being a woman
through all of this, because youwere in CPG companies,
financial companies, even atHarvard.
I'd love to hear yourperspective on how you actually
(06:06):
were able to climb that ladderand keep those relationships
with your male counterpartshealthy, Plus the fact that a
lot of women drop out of theworkforce because they have kids
and decide to pursue adifferent path.
Sheryl (06:19):
I can first and foremost , share that, not only being a
woman in some of thoseenvironments and context, but
also being a woman of color andsometimes not ever being 100%
sure, never will.
Where will I receive a reactionfor one aspect of what makes me
unique or another aspect?
(06:40):
And what I learned along theway is to not so much worry
about that Certainly I'mconscious and conscientious but,
more importantly, not to letthat turn into any kind of
self-doubt and to really focuson what was going to make me
successful and it's the samething that was going to make
anyone else in the roomsuccessful and that was about
(07:01):
credibility.
It was about being able tounderstand the business need and
how I was going to contributein an impactful way.
So, again, I will never knowhow people would view me and
what their assumptions were, butthe element that I could
control and impact again was mycredibility and bring my voice
(07:25):
to my insights and also toleverage that as a woman of
color, I did bring valuable andunique insights to business
opportunities as well as issues.
Gautham (07:36):
Sheryl, let me ask you a follow-up question on insights
.
I haven't met a person who hasworked in such a diverse set of
industries, from manufacturing,food, cosmetics, banking.
What transcends what's commonin these industries?
What skills and technicalexpertise translates across
(07:58):
these domain areas?
Sheryl (08:01):
Yeah, I think one of the success factors that I learned
and aspired to hone as a leaderwas, the first and foremost,
making sure that there wasclarity around the mission,
around the vision, and that theorganization, those that I was
(08:24):
leading, whether it was asmaller group or a larger team
that there was understanding andengagement and alignment to
that mission.
In support of that.
Culture is everything in myopinion.
I think culture can trumpstrategy.
I've worked in a variety oforganizations again a city group
(08:47):
, large, very large, globaloperation, to a family-owned
private business such as MaryKay Incorporated, and throughout
that, whether it was thecorporate culture and how that
was being reinforced andsupported, or the culture that I
was able to create andinfluence within my own division
(09:10):
, my own business unit, etcetera.
Because at the end of the day,the achievement of business
goals and the company's missioncomes down to people and their
commitment and their willingnessand motivation to come and be
their best and bring their best.
Paula (09:29):
Rich, I wish this platform had like emojis,
because I'm always wanting Ifeel like this is a Zoom call
and I'm always wanting to lookfor like the clapping emoji, and
it doesn't have it.
Can we work on that, rich?
Rich (09:38):
We can actually we can put a round of applause in.
So you started in retail, youended up going through marketing
, before I get to you rejoiningretail.
What was it specifically aboutmarketing, and how would you
define what a marketer is today?
Sheryl (10:00):
You know, as I think about my interest in marketing
and how that evolved fromretailing, from my own
experience in retail sales andselling on commission, which I
enjoyed I got a lot ofgratification from that helping
others be successful.
And as I thought about mypersonal experience and
effectiveness, I thought if Ihad even more influence and
(10:23):
impact over what I was sellingand how it was being sold, I
could be personally moresuccessful but, more importantly
, help my customers be moresuccessful.
So it was that desire to moveinto roles that had greater
influence and impact aroundstrategy, again, what was being
(10:44):
sold, how it was being sold,those decision points which I
really enjoyed and learned somuch in terms of, you know, my
CPG experience and likewise infinancial services.
Rich (10:58):
So again, for me it was through the shopper experience
that I really wanted to impact,the totality of the total
shopper experience and allelements of those touch points
(11:32):
and getting beaten out by CMOfor the year by the very
talented Ms Atkins Green.
But when you went to Mary Kay,what drew you to that experience
and what fueled you throughthat?
Sheryl (11:47):
I was attracted, first and foremost, to the company's
mission and the values of MaryKay Ash herself and her powerful
story of creating a businessfor women and creating a
business that was reallygrounded in some key values,
such as the golden rule, makingpeople feel important, integrity
(12:11):
, and, as someone who alwaysfelt that, not only do I want to
have impact professionally, Ialso wanted to have impact more
broadly in the community, andMary Kay represented a unique
opportunity to bring together myprofessional experience and
(12:31):
goals, as well as my personalpassion for helping others be
successful my personal passionfor helping others be successful
and I want to dive into and Iknow Gotham will as well a
little bit more into thatdirect-to-consumer model.
Rich (12:44):
I will ask how many sales leaders were created, and I'm
not sure of the exactterminology that's used, but is
there a moment that you canremember where there was an
event or an accomplishment andit just kind of gave you
goosebumps with the impact thatyou were able to have?
Sheryl (13:06):
I want to answer that by saying that I had many of those
moments and those came in theform of treasured opportunities
when I was able to interact withour independent sales force.
The Mary Kay business operatesin more than 35 countries around
the world.
I had a chance to travel, Ithink, to almost 20 of those.
(13:27):
You know the language barrierwas not a barrier, because I
felt there were someheart-to-heart connections and
through a little sign languageand also just the emotion when I
engaged and spoke with othersand shared my commitment to
their success and they expressedhow grateful they are, and have
(13:53):
been, to have an opportunity tobalance their life's priorities
in terms of faith and familyand career.
So, you know, I feel like if wehad an extra hour, there were
so many stories I could share.
But really, how the Mary Kayopportunity changed lives and,
(14:14):
most importantly, how so manywomen discovered their potential
.
And it happened because someoneelse saw something in them
before they saw it in themselves, and I'm grateful that I had
that opportunity to be a part ofthat.
Rich (14:31):
Yes, living in Dallas, as international as Mary Kay is,
living in Dallas and getting tosee it firsthand through your
eyes.
To the corporate side, thenumber, the countless number of
women that were empowered by ityou mentioned 35 different
countries.
As a marketer with a brand,mission and purpose is defined
as Mary Kay's.
Did you find it challenging?
(14:54):
Or maybe I'll ask it this waywhat challenges did you find in
expanding into other countries?
Sheryl (15:01):
I'll say that many elements of the Mary Kay culture
resonate and are relevantglobally.
At the same time, every countryis different culturally and, as
the person responsible for theglobal brand strategy, I needed
to first of all make sure thatthere was an understanding of
(15:25):
the global strategy and how themission and vision for Mary Kay
would come into play in eachmarket and, importantly, the
value of a consistent brandimage around the world, because
it's through consistency thattrust is built and established.
Having said that, I alsorespected the importance of
(15:47):
making sure that how the brandwas communicated and conveyed
resonated at that local level,which required collaboration.
I think about my role in thecontext of an orchestra
conductor, where you have manytalented musicians, each of
which plays an important role inthat symphony, and, as the
(16:11):
conductor, you're looking tomake sure that each musician and
each piece of the music comestogether harmoniously.
So it's not about one sizefitting all, but to make sure
that the pieces, so to speak,and the individual voices come
together in a harmony.
Rich (16:30):
So, from a retail organization and being the head
of marketing and really managingthe global brand, you had a
unique challenge in having asmany independent operators as
you did, and around the globe.
How were you able to maintainconsistency?
(16:50):
How challenging was it?
Because I would imagine it'schallenging when you're talking
about one country or when you'retalking about physical
environments, you're talkingabout independent sales reps
across the world.
How were you able to managethat?
Sheryl (17:05):
Well, let me start with you.
You referred to Mary Kay as aretail organization.
I will say that Mary Kay wouldnot describe themselves as
retail in terms of the physicalexperience, but when we do think
about a selling situation, asharing situation, yes, every
(17:25):
independent beauty consultantprovides that shopping sharing
experience with her individualcustomers.
And I think some of the thingsthat inspired each independent
beauty consultant and each MaryKay market to be aligned comes
back to those fundamental valuesaround golden rule, service,
(17:48):
treating everyone the way youwould want to be treated, making
sure that everyone feelsimportant, and that can look and
feel different by individual.
And you know, if you thinkabout today, what do consumers
want in a shopping experience?
They want personalization, andthat's something that Mary Kay
Ash understood from thebeginning in 1963.
(18:11):
So, as we think about, as Ithink about shopping experiences
and personalization, thatreally is at the heart of the
Mary Kay business model.
So, as the global brandstrategy leader, my team and I
supported that by making surethat each independent beauty
(18:32):
consultant had a consistentarray of support tools so that
they could be successful withintheir individual business but
they could also customize howthey interacted and engaged and
delivered personalized serviceto their customers.
Gautham (18:50):
So let me just ask a couple of questions on the
experience factor.
Right, you talked aboutpersonalization as being
critical to experience.
What else?
Today we live in an experienceeconomy.
Companies differentiate eachother based on experience.
What is the secret to a uniqueexperience, that consistent
(19:11):
unique experience, in youropinion, outside of
personalization?
Sheryl (19:15):
Yeah, I think the secret is be attentive and empathetic
to what the customer is trulybuying, and what they're buying
is not necessarily what is inthe transaction.
So as an example, I'll go backto my experience in Kraft Foods
and something like a stovetopstuffing.
(19:36):
The mom, the head of thehousehold at the time, was not
just buying a side dish fordinner.
She was buying a pleasant mealexperience.
She was hoping and workingtoward a nice family
conversation where people felt,at the end of a day of work and
(19:58):
homework and practice whatever,that this moment, even if it was
just 20 minutes, was going tofeel special.
And if you think about stovetopstuffing, it was bringing
actually a side dish from aspecial meal occasion and
bringing it into the everydayand making it feel more elevated
than the mashed potatoes orrice or whatever.
(20:19):
So I use that as an example ofthe importance of making sure
it's investing the time tounderstand what is someone
buying.
They're not necessarily buying anew sweater or a pair of
earrings.
They're maybe buying confidence.
They're buying necessarilybuying a new sweater or a pair
of earrings.
They're maybe buying confidence.
They're buying a gift.
(20:41):
They're buying the joy thatthey made their sister or their
best friend feel importantbecause they selected the
perfect gift.
And I think you know,particularly in this day and age
where so much is automated andyou know AI has a lot of
benefits but at the same time itdoesn't some of the technology
(21:03):
can't really bring thatempathetic understanding of what
people, what the goal is of thepurchase, not the purchase, but
what's the goal of the purchase.
Gautham (21:14):
But what's the goal of the purchase?
I'm smiling because you kind ofnicely teed up the second part
of the question, which was therole of technology in enabling
those personalized movements ofexperience.
Where do you see it?
And how, for Medicaid, whereyou have all these different
service providers, how do youuse technology to help, perhaps,
deliver a consistent level ofquality?
Sheryl (21:39):
help perhaps deliver a consistent level of quality.
In my opinion, I valuetechnology most for efficiency
and less so for effectiveness,and by that I mean technology
can certainly help a lot gofaster.
It can enable marketers andtheir teams to digest so much
more data quickly, in a timeframe to make it relevant.
(22:01):
My effectiveness, though, is sowhat do you do with the data?
And again, I'll use a simpleexample, and I'll go back to
when I would buy mythree-year-old nieces I have
twin nieces and order clothesfor them.
I will say, for at least anotherfive years, they kept somebody,
kept serving up clothes forthree-year-olds, never
(22:24):
anticipating that my nieces weregetting older.
So, again, the technology wasthere.
It was not helpful to mebecause it did not factor in why
I was buying a three-year-oldaddress and so forth.
And again, a simplistic example.
So I think you know, goingforward, it's not about if
(22:46):
technology and AI can be helpful.
It's more about how is it usedand to make sure that it does
not ever supersede the humanelements that help us understand
those whys and those layers ofwhy.
Rich (23:02):
So we live, at least in this country, in a very
consumer-driven economy and wehave a generation that I won't
say is shunning consumerism, butthey're making different
choices.
How do you think consumerism ischanging overall and how do you
think the consumer will evolveover the next decade?
Sheryl (23:24):
As I think about your question, what strikes me is
that literally for centuries,people have been buying or
bartering or trading for goods,goods that they need, goods that
make a positive difference intheir lives.
In this day and age and againit varies around the world
(23:46):
consumer still want to exchangemerchandise, they want to
exchange ideas, they want totake something and make it their
own and enhance the value.
And how do we help them achievethat goal?
(24:15):
It's not always going to be inselling them more merchandise,
selling them new merchandise,but rather taking what we know
as a company.
How do we take our goods, ourservices, our technology and
help people gain moresatisfaction?
(24:35):
And if we come at it from thatstandpoint, that's how we earn
the loyalty and the endorsementof a consumer base.
Rich (24:45):
Do you think there's a retailer or a service provider
that is doing it well today?
Sheryl (24:51):
I'll tell you as you ask that question.
One of the retailers that comesto mind is Anthropologie, and
what strikes me aboutAnthropologie is how they
connected with the consumersI'll say from a lifestyle
perspective and brought togetherthe balance of trend
(25:12):
merchandise, the balance oftrend merchandise lifestyle, in
terms of whether it might behome goods, some gifting, etc.
They stand out to me in termsof their retail experience, in
terms of how they merchandise,even if you're not necessarily
looking for or needing a newoutfit.
I think they made the shoppingexperience very inviting and
(25:38):
it's very warm, and I thinkthat's one of the reasons why
they've in my opinion, they'vebeen successful.
Rich (25:47):
Moving away from the sea of sameness that everybody has
tended to replicate.
Sheryl (25:51):
Yes.
Rich (25:53):
So one of the things we've also talked about is, in this
malaise of generalized retail,that those sellers, those on the
front line, whether they'reselling, stocking, taking care
of the customer at the beginning, is that they aren't often seen
as a not often seen as aprofession.
Sheryl (26:13):
yet during the pandemic, obviously we placed a very high
value on them Within Mary Kayis that it really is a model
founded on relationships thatthe independent beauty
(26:43):
consultant truly hasrelationships with her customer
base and those customers feelknown and they feel cared about
because they are, and certainlythrough the pandemic that was
particularly important.
There were so many importantstories of how the independent
sales force reached out to theircustomers to just check in on
(27:06):
them and at a point in timewhere so many were feeling
isolated, those connections wereso important and so valued.
I think, again, not to throwshade on technology, I do think
technology often steers peopleaway from those relationship
(27:26):
building opportunities.
If you think about you know howso many companies steer you,
first and foremost, please go toyou know you call, oh, go to
our website, leave a message,try this, download the app.
And they're steering peopleaway from interaction.
Yet it's through theinteraction that you gain those
(27:48):
insights and you get thatopportunity to leverage those
magic moments, so to speak, whenyou can really make a
difference, make a memorabledifference in a customer's
experience.
So I think in this day and age,I think technology again, when
it helps for efficiency, great,but it should not be at the
(28:11):
expense of connection.
Rich (28:14):
Yeah, and I'll take that from.
I agree wholeheartedly.
And you mentioned culture andthat culture often is more
important than strategy and I'veworked for an organization or
two in my past that hasamplified that.
I find that sometimes I'veworked in places that feel that
a new system is going to solvetheir issues, when in fact the
(28:37):
issues are process driven,communication driven or culture
driven.
But there is this reliance onwell, we're going to update this
new system and it's going tocome out in two years and it's
going to solve what you or Icould be solving today through
conversation and through puttingtogether better communication
and processes.
So I agree wholeheartedly.
Sheryl (28:59):
One of the things I learned was actually from Disney
and this was when I was inbanking.
But you know, at Disney theyteach you that everything counts
and experience is everything.
And I was fascinated that youknow Disney, they make waiting
in line pleasurable.
They don't try to make the linego faster they could possibly,
(29:21):
and then again they've doneexpress, pass and so forth but
they make the wait in line, theexperience.
And then you know, on a similarvein, when the independent
sales force at Mary Kay calls,until they're connected with
some customer successrepresentative to help them,
they hear Mary Kay's words ofwisdom and sometimes sales force
(29:45):
will say oh, I answered thephone so quickly.
I wanted to hear more of therecording of Mary Kay Ash's
words of wisdom, words of wisdom.
So, again, thinking aboutexperience, not just in terms of
some of the measurable elementsof you know how fast, duration,
etc.
But are you making theexperience meaningful and
(30:07):
memorable?
Paula (30:07):
Okay, so that's actually a really good segue.
So let's move on to the nextsection.
So, words of wisdom.
So what are some of the bestwords of wisdom that you have
received throughout your career?
Sheryl (30:18):
The best advice that I received and I share it broadly
and frequently and that's to ownyour uniqueness.
I call it owning your bold.
I have come to learn that youcannot stand out when you're
trying to fit in, and when Ilook back at the times that I
was most successful and, moreimportantly, more satisfied,
(30:41):
it's when I followed myinstincts and didn't try to
quote play by someone else'splaybook, which is not to say
you don't.
Take advantage and learn fromas many people as you can.
You can learn how to do things,you can learn what not to do,
but at the end of the day, Ireally do think it's so
important that every individualhave the confidence to bring
(31:05):
their unique talent, experienceand perspective to their role.
Rich (31:09):
All right, I'll jump in with the next question the most
underrated skill.
What is, in your opinion, themost underrated skill that a
person can have today there?
Sheryl (31:17):
is, I'll say, a pressure , so to speak.
Our attention span is shorterthan a goldfish.
I don't know how they know whatgoldfish pay attention to, but
(32:02):
somehow somebody knows.
But this notion of peoplemultitasking and we have to be
quick, you have to have asoundbite, et cetera, et cetera.
I think that listening we sayit's important I don't know if
we always act like it'simportant and at the end of the
day, it is, I think, one of themost important skills and
(32:24):
resources that we have.
And when I say listen, it'slistening to our teams, it's
listening to our colleagues.
I'm a big Stephen Covey fan.
Seek first to understand, thenbe understood, and I think right
now too much might be missedbecause we don't take enough
time to listen.
(32:44):
If you could go back to thatyoung woman in college taking
fashion, merchandising or goingto Harvard, any advice that you
would give her?
I think, if I look back at thattime in my life, I would have
been even more intentional abouttraveling more, getting to know
more people.
(33:04):
It is something that I began toincorporate more along the way,
but particularly in this dayand age, knowing how important a
global sensibility is and beingable to view what is said, what
is shown through the lens of aglobal community, particularly
(33:25):
now with social media.
Everybody sees everything.
So I think if I had to go back,that would be something I
probably would have been evenmore intentional about.
Paula (33:36):
Awesome.
Well, cheryl, we have come tothe last section, which is the
rapid fire.
Are you ready?
I'm ready, all right, so it'sgoing to be a question.
It'll be rich then me, and thenrich again.
The first question that comesto our mind and the first answer
that comes to your mind, allright, so my question is what
(33:58):
three people, dead or alive,would you have at a dinner party
?
Ooh, good.
Sheryl (34:05):
One First person who comes to mind is Michelle Obama,
not only for all that we knowabout her and all that she has
shared, but I feel like at adinner conversation I might gain
even a little bit more insightin a private conversation, so
she comes to mind.
The second person I think Iwould really welcome the
(34:28):
opportunity to spend time withis actually a musician Stevie
Wonder.
I love music and as I thinkabout his career, his musical
journey over the last I want tosay five decades, all that he
has experienced, I just thinkthat would be a fascinating
(34:49):
conversation.
The third person who I think isjust so fascinating on so many
levels is actually EleanorRoosevelt, and such a
trailblazer, such an advocatefor so many, so influential and
impactful.
The more I read and learn abouther and her role and I'm sure
(35:12):
there are so many things shedeserves a lot of credit for
that maybe have not been fully,it hasn't been fully highlighted
just yet, but those are thethree who come to mind first.
Rich (35:24):
So I'm going to leverage.
I love the.
I love all three.
Eleanor Roosevelt I agree withyou.
She's one who I've been readingon a little bit more lately and
it is amazing some things thatpeople would take for granted
that she highly influenced.
All right.
So I'm going to stay with themusic theme, and normally I
would ask you what your walk onmusic is, but I'll let you
(35:44):
answer that one or I'll give youthe alternate of what would be
the most surprising artist orsong on your playlist.
Sheryl (35:54):
Oh my gosh, I have so many songs on my playlist I
don't know what would you know?
It depends who you might askand to what extent they would be
surprised.
I'm gonna say that one of myfavorite songs is Shining Star
by Earth, wind, fire.
What I love about that is sucha great affirmation, and I love
(36:17):
it for my own walk on music, butI also love it for anyone and
everyone else that you areshining bright and a shining
star and I think not enoughpeople remember that about
themselves.
And I love the fact that thatsong really celebrates the
greatness that's in each of us,that that song really celebrates
the greatness that's in each ofus.
Rich (36:36):
All right, so I'll ask the final question, and you
mentioned that with Mary Kay,you've traveled to at least 20
countries and likely beyond that.
Sheryl (36:48):
Was there a country that surprised you?
I was, first of all, all thecountries.
My experience was lovely andthe warmth of every team and so
forth.
Ukraine, and Kyiv specifically.
Just a beautiful city, muchmore colorful, more green.
(37:10):
Not what I expected.
It was certainly my first andonly time that I had a chance to
visit there many years ago, butthat really stands out to me
because I really didn't knowwhat to expect there.
Rich (37:27):
And it does have a way of pulling the world a little bit
closer together and realizingwhat people are going through
when you, it's one thing to seeit through technology, it's
another thing to see it in, youknow, with your, with your real
eyes.
Cheryl, thank you very much.
This was amazing.
I've been waiting for thissince we started the podcast.
I will personally confess thatwhen we were developing our
initial guest list, you werethere.
(37:47):
You've always been a marketerwho I've long admired, a person
that I've admired, marketer whoI've long admired, a person that
I've admired, and the customerfocus that I was able to see
firsthand in Dallas and globallythrough Mary Kay is something I
tremendously respect, and I amlooking forward to see what the
next chapter holds for you.
Sheryl (38:06):
Oh well, thank you so much.
I really do appreciate theopportunity to have this
conversation with all of you.
Rich (38:13):
So that was a great conversation with Cheryl Atkins
Green.
I will note that one of theawards she has many that she
didn't talk about was when shebeat me for CMO of the year in
DFW, but it was a fond memoryfor me because I was up against
her and the CMO at JCPenney atthe time.
(38:33):
She is impressive.
I've learned much from her overthe last many years.
Gautham (38:38):
Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation.
It was.
I mean, her breadth ofexperiences across different
industry sectors was fascinating.
And you know, bringing it allback down to we've spoken about
this many times retail is apeople business.
Irrespective of which industry,it boils down to being a people
business.
Rich (38:58):
Yeah, and I found it.
It was interesting when I askedher the question about Mary Kay
and I was talking about itbeing retail and she said you
know, it wasn't that it wasn'tretail, but it wasn't
traditional retail and it wasthat she almost seemed to
separate it from what theaverage person would think of as
retail, as bricks and mortar,that normal kind of store or web
(39:21):
transaction.
I find that interesting and Iwonder, as we've explored so
many different angles of retailand are trying to encourage
those looking for a career tocome into it, has retail been
too narrowly defined?
You know you've got a lot moredirect sellers and a lot more
you've got retail being done onsocial channels.
Is the definition thateverybody's using way too narrow
(39:44):
?
Gautham (39:44):
I'm laughing because there was a point when I was
asked to define retail and Ijust defined it as any exchange,
and when you're between an endconsumer and a business, maybe
that's a little bit too broad,but I think retail is purely a
vehicle for exchange between anend consumer and maybe not even
an end consumer, now right and abusiness.
(40:07):
And who knows, if you take thatbroader blanket, maybe we'll
have a more wide scopedefinition of retail that allows
us to position it differentlyto the upcoming generation.
Rich (40:20):
And you wonder how Mary Kay influenced what you see now
going on on social channels, orhow QVC and Home Shopping
Network influence what we seewith live stream now and how
popular it is around the world.
So great guest, I think.
Just another really cooldimension within the retail
ecosphere.
Gautham (40:37):
Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation.
That was fantastic.
Rich (40:40):
All right Well for Paula, who had to jump off a little bit
early.
Gautam and myself want to thankeverybody for joining us for
this episode of Retail Relates.
We hope you continue to staytuned, send your cards and
letters and we look forward toyou tuning in the next episode.
It is our pleasure today to welcome Sheryl Atkins-Green
to Retail Relates.
Sheryl is a distinguishedbusiness executive with over
three decades of transformativeleadership experience across the
globe.
She is known for her consistenttrack record of delivering
results, developing leaders,driving top-line and bottom-line
growth, innovating marketapproaches and leading
(00:21):
organizations throughsignificant change.
Sheryl earned her Bachelor ofScience degree in fashion
retailing at the University ofWisconsin and later an MBA from
Harvard Business School.
Her career began in leadershiproles at major corporations,
where she built expertise insales, marketing and strategic
development in a variety ofsegments.
Sheryl has held executivepositions at globally recognized
(00:43):
companies, including KraftFoods, Citigroup, Cadbury-
Schweppes and Alberto Culver.
In each role, she strengthenedher ability to drive business
growth, enhance brand presenceand develop high-impact strategy
.
That brought her to Mary Kay,first as chief marketing officer
and eventually chief experienceofficer at one of the world's
leading direct-selling beautybrands.
(01:04):
In this role, she supported thesuccess of millions of women
entrepreneurs by leading theglobal strategy that delivered a
360 degree integrated customerexperience.
Her leadership and shapingcustomer engagement and business
innovation played a criticalrole in Mary Kay's success.
Throughout her distinguishedcareer, Sheryl has received
numerous accolades, recognizingher influence in business and
(01:25):
marketing.
Just a few of those includeForbes Top 50 CMO Influencer,
brand Innovators, top 100 Womenin Marketing Award, a CMO
Leadership Award and BlackEnterprise's Most Powerful Women
in Corporate America list in2019.
She is very active in hercommunity, having served or
continuing to serve in a varietyof positions, including Board
of trustees for TCU, texasChristian University, Vice
(01:48):
President of the Dallas Museumof Art Board of trustees, as a
member of the InternationalWomen's Forum and as a member of
the Executive Leadership Forum.
Additionally, she was featuredin Valerie Burton's bestselling
book Successful Women ThinkDifferently.
Beyond business, cheryl ispassionate about art, fashion,
beauty and entrepreneurship.
She actively shares herinsights on leadership and
innovation across platforms,inspiring others to achieve
(02:11):
success in their own careers.
It is an absolute pleasure tohave her on the program today.
Paula (02:16):
Sheryl Atkins-Green, thank you so much for joining us
in this episode of RetailRelates.
We are just absolutely honoredto have you, especially because
you have recently announced yourretirement from a little
company known as Mary Kay.
If you're a Texan, like me, youknow Mary Kay very well and if
you are a makeup aficionado, youabsolutely know Mary Kay or
(02:38):
have spoken to a Mary Kayrepresentative.
So, cheryl, thank you forcoming on to the episode.
I'll kick us off and have thefirst question, cheryl, for you,
if you're ready, I am ready,excited to be with you.
So, Sheryl, you've had a greatcareer.
Tell us a little bit about thethree pivotal moments in either
your personal life or yourcareer that have led you to this
(02:59):
moment, to where you are today.
Sheryl (03:01):
Sure, my career actually began in retailing.
My first jobs in high schoolwere retail, so this is a full
circle moment, so to speak.
Starting in retail.
I'll say the first pivotalmoment was the decision, as in
my senior year I had studiedfashion retailing at the
University of Wisconsin and, asI was approaching graduation,
(03:24):
had all the retail job offers,started to think a little bit
more long-term, not about what Iwanted to do right then, but
where was that going to take me?
And as I thought about a careerpath in retailing, I questioned
is there anything else I mightenjoy as much, if not more?
And I thought about why I lovedretailing.
(03:46):
I love the creative aspects, Ilove the consumer psychology
aspects and I love the businessresults.
And as I thought about what Iloved about retailing and
fashion, I started to look atother opportunities, and that
led me to consider both work atan ad agency as well as product
and brand management, and thatled to a decision to pursue my
(04:10):
MBA.
And so I went on to go toHarvard Business School and go
into a career in consumerpackaged goods.
So that was pivotal.
Next pivotal moment was when, atKraft Foods, I was offered a
cross-functional opportunity tomove out of marketing and
actually into operations andtechnology as a director of
(04:32):
productivity and synergy A bitof a career risk, but I was
excited to have an opportunityto really stand out from my
marketing counterparts and alsolearn more about the business so
that one day, in a broaderleadership role, I could be most
effective.
And then the third decisionthat I'll highlight was to
actually move out of CPG intofinancial services with
(04:56):
Citigroup.
Most people did not see me as abanker.
I didn't see me as a banker,but what I did see myself
potentially was as a globalbusiness leader, and Citigroup
offered that opportunity to worknot only in services versus
products, but still consumeroriented and also have broader
exposure financially to thebalance sheet, p&l, broader
(05:20):
leadership, responsibility andglobal exposure.
Paula (05:23):
First I want to point out you just glossed over the fact
that you went to Harvard, so Icaught that.
Very impressive.
And also I love your variedbackground, because right now
people with significant careershave that variety and background
.
It's only an asset to companiesbecause you have that ability
to look at different businessesand understand the business in a
(05:45):
way that no one can and bringnew ideas to your business and
your industry in a way that noone can.
Had they not had thatexperience in other industries.
Thank you for sharing that.
I want to talk about, if youwill, about being a woman
through all of this, because youwere in CPG companies,
financial companies, even atHarvard.
I'd love to hear yourperspective on how you actually
(06:06):
were able to climb that ladderand keep those relationships
with your male counterpartshealthy, Plus the fact that a
lot of women drop out of theworkforce because they have kids
and decide to pursue adifferent path.
Sheryl (06:19):
I can first and foremost , share that, not only being a
woman in some of thoseenvironments and context, but
also being a woman of color andsometimes not ever being 100%
sure, never will.
Where will I receive a reactionfor one aspect of what makes me
unique or another aspect?
(06:40):
And what I learned along theway is to not so much worry
about that Certainly I'mconscious and conscientious but,
more importantly, not to letthat turn into any kind of
self-doubt and to really focuson what was going to make me
successful and it's the samething that was going to make
anyone else in the roomsuccessful and that was about
(07:01):
credibility.
It was about being able tounderstand the business need and
how I was going to contributein an impactful way.
So, again, I will never knowhow people would view me and
what their assumptions were, butthe element that I could
control and impact again was mycredibility and bring my voice
(07:25):
to my insights and also toleverage that as a woman of
color, I did bring valuable andunique insights to business
opportunities as well as issues.
Gautham (07:36):
Sheryl, let me ask you a follow-up question on insights
.
I haven't met a person who hasworked in such a diverse set of
industries, from manufacturing,food, cosmetics, banking.
What transcends what's commonin these industries?
What skills and technicalexpertise translates across
(07:58):
these domain areas?
Sheryl (08:01):
Yeah, I think one of the success factors that I learned
and aspired to hone as a leaderwas, the first and foremost,
making sure that there wasclarity around the mission,
around the vision, and that theorganization, those that I was
(08:24):
leading, whether it was asmaller group or a larger team
that there was understanding andengagement and alignment to
that mission.
In support of that.
Culture is everything in myopinion.
I think culture can trumpstrategy.
I've worked in a variety oforganizations again a city group
(08:47):
, large, very large, globaloperation, to a family-owned
private business such as MaryKay Incorporated, and throughout
that, whether it was thecorporate culture and how that
was being reinforced andsupported, or the culture that I
was able to create andinfluence within my own division
(09:10):
, my own business unit, etcetera.
Because at the end of the day,the achievement of business
goals and the company's missioncomes down to people and their
commitment and their willingnessand motivation to come and be
their best and bring their best.
Paula (09:29):
Rich, I wish this platform had like emojis,
because I'm always wanting Ifeel like this is a Zoom call
and I'm always wanting to lookfor like the clapping emoji, and
it doesn't have it.
Can we work on that, rich?
Rich (09:38):
We can actually we can put a round of applause in.
So you started in retail, youended up going through marketing
, before I get to you rejoiningretail.
What was it specifically aboutmarketing, and how would you
define what a marketer is today?
Sheryl (10:00):
You know, as I think about my interest in marketing
and how that evolved fromretailing, from my own
experience in retail sales andselling on commission, which I
enjoyed I got a lot ofgratification from that helping
others be successful.
And as I thought about mypersonal experience and
effectiveness, I thought if Ihad even more influence and
(10:23):
impact over what I was sellingand how it was being sold, I
could be personally moresuccessful but, more importantly
, help my customers be moresuccessful.
So it was that desire to moveinto roles that had greater
influence and impact aroundstrategy, again, what was being
(10:44):
sold, how it was being sold,those decision points which I
really enjoyed and learned somuch in terms of, you know, my
CPG experience and likewise infinancial services.
Rich (10:58):
So again, for me it was through the shopper experience
that I really wanted to impact,the totality of the total
shopper experience and allelements of those touch points
(11:32):
and getting beaten out by CMOfor the year by the very
talented Ms Atkins Green.
But when you went to Mary Kay,what drew you to that experience
and what fueled you throughthat?
Sheryl (11:47):
I was attracted, first and foremost, to the company's
mission and the values of MaryKay Ash herself and her powerful
story of creating a businessfor women and creating a
business that was reallygrounded in some key values,
such as the golden rule, makingpeople feel important, integrity
(12:11):
, and, as someone who alwaysfelt that, not only do I want to
have impact professionally, Ialso wanted to have impact more
broadly in the community, andMary Kay represented a unique
opportunity to bring together myprofessional experience and
(12:31):
goals, as well as my personalpassion for helping others be
successful my personal passionfor helping others be successful
and I want to dive into and Iknow Gotham will as well a
little bit more into thatdirect-to-consumer model.
Rich (12:44):
I will ask how many sales leaders were created, and I'm
not sure of the exactterminology that's used, but is
there a moment that you canremember where there was an
event or an accomplishment andit just kind of gave you
goosebumps with the impact thatyou were able to have?
Sheryl (13:06):
I want to answer that by saying that I had many of those
moments and those came in theform of treasured opportunities
when I was able to interact withour independent sales force.
The Mary Kay business operatesin more than 35 countries around
the world.
I had a chance to travel, Ithink, to almost 20 of those.
(13:27):
You know the language barrierwas not a barrier, because I
felt there were someheart-to-heart connections and
through a little sign languageand also just the emotion when I
engaged and spoke with othersand shared my commitment to
their success and they expressedhow grateful they are, and have
(13:53):
been, to have an opportunity tobalance their life's priorities
in terms of faith and familyand career.
So, you know, I feel like if wehad an extra hour, there were
so many stories I could share.
But really, how the Mary Kayopportunity changed lives and,
(14:14):
most importantly, how so manywomen discovered their potential
.
And it happened because someoneelse saw something in them
before they saw it in themselves, and I'm grateful that I had
that opportunity to be a part ofthat.
Rich (14:31):
Yes, living in Dallas, as international as Mary Kay is,
living in Dallas and getting tosee it firsthand through your
eyes.
To the corporate side, thenumber, the countless number of
women that were empowered by ityou mentioned 35 different
countries.
As a marketer with a brand,mission and purpose is defined
as Mary Kay's.
Did you find it challenging?
(14:54):
Or maybe I'll ask it this waywhat challenges did you find in
expanding into other countries?
Sheryl (15:01):
I'll say that many elements of the Mary Kay culture
resonate and are relevantglobally.
At the same time, every countryis different culturally and, as
the person responsible for theglobal brand strategy, I needed
to first of all make sure thatthere was an understanding of
(15:25):
the global strategy and how themission and vision for Mary Kay
would come into play in eachmarket and, importantly, the
value of a consistent brandimage around the world, because
it's through consistency thattrust is built and established.
Having said that, I alsorespected the importance of
(15:47):
making sure that how the brandwas communicated and conveyed
resonated at that local level,which required collaboration.
I think about my role in thecontext of an orchestra
conductor, where you have manytalented musicians, each of
which plays an important role inthat symphony, and, as the
(16:11):
conductor, you're looking tomake sure that each musician and
each piece of the music comestogether harmoniously.
So it's not about one sizefitting all, but to make sure
that the pieces, so to speak,and the individual voices come
together in a harmony.
Rich (16:30):
So, from a retail organization and being the head
of marketing and really managingthe global brand, you had a
unique challenge in having asmany independent operators as
you did, and around the globe.
How were you able to maintainconsistency?
(16:50):
How challenging was it?
Because I would imagine it'schallenging when you're talking
about one country or when you'retalking about physical
environments, you're talkingabout independent sales reps
across the world.
How were you able to managethat?
Sheryl (17:05):
Well, let me start with you.
You referred to Mary Kay as aretail organization.
I will say that Mary Kay wouldnot describe themselves as
retail in terms of the physicalexperience, but when we do think
about a selling situation, asharing situation, yes, every
(17:25):
independent beauty consultantprovides that shopping sharing
experience with her individualcustomers.
And I think some of the thingsthat inspired each independent
beauty consultant and each MaryKay market to be aligned comes
back to those fundamental valuesaround golden rule, service,
(17:48):
treating everyone the way youwould want to be treated, making
sure that everyone feelsimportant, and that can look and
feel different by individual.
And you know, if you thinkabout today, what do consumers
want in a shopping experience?
They want personalization, andthat's something that Mary Kay
Ash understood from thebeginning in 1963.
(18:11):
So, as we think about, as Ithink about shopping experiences
and personalization, thatreally is at the heart of the
Mary Kay business model.
So, as the global brandstrategy leader, my team and I
supported that by making surethat each independent beauty
(18:32):
consultant had a consistentarray of support tools so that
they could be successful withintheir individual business but
they could also customize howthey interacted and engaged and
delivered personalized serviceto their customers.
Gautham (18:50):
So let me just ask a couple of questions on the
experience factor.
Right, you talked aboutpersonalization as being
critical to experience.
What else?
Today we live in an experienceeconomy.
Companies differentiate eachother based on experience.
What is the secret to a uniqueexperience, that consistent
(19:11):
unique experience, in youropinion, outside of
personalization?
Sheryl (19:15):
Yeah, I think the secret is be attentive and empathetic
to what the customer is trulybuying, and what they're buying
is not necessarily what is inthe transaction.
So as an example, I'll go backto my experience in Kraft Foods
and something like a stovetopstuffing.
(19:36):
The mom, the head of thehousehold at the time, was not
just buying a side dish fordinner.
She was buying a pleasant mealexperience.
She was hoping and workingtoward a nice family
conversation where people felt,at the end of a day of work and
(19:58):
homework and practice whatever,that this moment, even if it was
just 20 minutes, was going tofeel special.
And if you think about stovetopstuffing, it was bringing
actually a side dish from aspecial meal occasion and
bringing it into the everydayand making it feel more elevated
than the mashed potatoes orrice or whatever.
(20:19):
So I use that as an example ofthe importance of making sure
it's investing the time tounderstand what is someone
buying.
They're not necessarily buying anew sweater or a pair of
earrings.
They're maybe buying confidence.
They're buying necessarilybuying a new sweater or a pair
of earrings.
They're maybe buying confidence.
They're buying a gift.
(20:41):
They're buying the joy thatthey made their sister or their
best friend feel importantbecause they selected the
perfect gift.
And I think you know,particularly in this day and age
where so much is automated andyou know AI has a lot of
benefits but at the same time itdoesn't some of the technology
(21:03):
can't really bring thatempathetic understanding of what
people, what the goal is of thepurchase, not the purchase, but
what's the goal of the purchase.
Gautham (21:14):
But what's the goal of the purchase?
I'm smiling because you kind ofnicely teed up the second part
of the question, which was therole of technology in enabling
those personalized movements ofexperience.
Where do you see it?
And how, for Medicaid, whereyou have all these different
service providers, how do youuse technology to help, perhaps,
deliver a consistent level ofquality?
Sheryl (21:39):
help perhaps deliver a consistent level of quality.
In my opinion, I valuetechnology most for efficiency
and less so for effectiveness,and by that I mean technology
can certainly help a lot gofaster.
It can enable marketers andtheir teams to digest so much
more data quickly, in a timeframe to make it relevant.
(22:01):
My effectiveness, though, is sowhat do you do with the data?
And again, I'll use a simpleexample, and I'll go back to
when I would buy mythree-year-old nieces I have
twin nieces and order clothesfor them.
I will say, for at least anotherfive years, they kept somebody,
kept serving up clothes forthree-year-olds, never
(22:24):
anticipating that my nieces weregetting older.
So, again, the technology wasthere.
It was not helpful to mebecause it did not factor in why
I was buying a three-year-oldaddress and so forth.
And again, a simplistic example.
So I think you know, goingforward, it's not about if
(22:46):
technology and AI can be helpful.
It's more about how is it usedand to make sure that it does
not ever supersede the humanelements that help us understand
those whys and those layers ofwhy.
Rich (23:02):
So we live, at least in this country, in a very
consumer-driven economy and wehave a generation that I won't
say is shunning consumerism, butthey're making different
choices.
How do you think consumerism ischanging overall and how do you
think the consumer will evolveover the next decade?
Sheryl (23:24):
As I think about your question, what strikes me is
that literally for centuries,people have been buying or
bartering or trading for goods,goods that they need, goods that
make a positive difference intheir lives.
In this day and age and againit varies around the world
(23:46):
consumer still want to exchangemerchandise, they want to
exchange ideas, they want totake something and make it their
own and enhance the value.
And how do we help them achievethat goal?
(24:15):
It's not always going to be inselling them more merchandise,
selling them new merchandise,but rather taking what we know
as a company.
How do we take our goods, ourservices, our technology and
help people gain moresatisfaction?
(24:35):
And if we come at it from thatstandpoint, that's how we earn
the loyalty and the endorsementof a consumer base.
Rich (24:45):
Do you think there's a retailer or a service provider
that is doing it well today?
Sheryl (24:51):
I'll tell you as you ask that question.
One of the retailers that comesto mind is Anthropologie, and
what strikes me aboutAnthropologie is how they
connected with the consumersI'll say from a lifestyle
perspective and brought togetherthe balance of trend
(25:12):
merchandise, the balance oftrend merchandise lifestyle, in
terms of whether it might behome goods, some gifting, etc.
They stand out to me in termsof their retail experience, in
terms of how they merchandise,even if you're not necessarily
looking for or needing a newoutfit.
I think they made the shoppingexperience very inviting and
(25:38):
it's very warm, and I thinkthat's one of the reasons why
they've in my opinion, they'vebeen successful.
Rich (25:47):
Moving away from the sea of sameness that everybody has
tended to replicate.
Sheryl (25:51):
Yes.
Rich (25:53):
So one of the things we've also talked about is, in this
malaise of generalized retail,that those sellers, those on the
front line, whether they'reselling, stocking, taking care
of the customer at the beginning, is that they aren't often seen
as a not often seen as aprofession.
Sheryl (26:13):
yet during the pandemic, obviously we placed a very high
value on them Within Mary Kayis that it really is a model
founded on relationships thatthe independent beauty
(26:43):
consultant truly hasrelationships with her customer
base and those customers feelknown and they feel cared about
because they are, and certainlythrough the pandemic that was
particularly important.
There were so many importantstories of how the independent
sales force reached out to theircustomers to just check in on
(27:06):
them and at a point in timewhere so many were feeling
isolated, those connections wereso important and so valued.
I think, again, not to throwshade on technology, I do think
technology often steers peopleaway from those relationship
(27:26):
building opportunities.
If you think about you know howso many companies steer you,
first and foremost, please go toyou know you call, oh, go to
our website, leave a message,try this, download the app.
And they're steering peopleaway from interaction.
Yet it's through theinteraction that you gain those
(27:48):
insights and you get thatopportunity to leverage those
magic moments, so to speak, whenyou can really make a
difference, make a memorabledifference in a customer's
experience.
So I think in this day and age,I think technology again, when
it helps for efficiency, great,but it should not be at the
(28:11):
expense of connection.
Rich (28:14):
Yeah, and I'll take that from.
I agree wholeheartedly.
And you mentioned culture andthat culture often is more
important than strategy and I'veworked for an organization or
two in my past that hasamplified that.
I find that sometimes I'veworked in places that feel that
a new system is going to solvetheir issues, when in fact the
(28:37):
issues are process driven,communication driven or culture
driven.
But there is this reliance onwell, we're going to update this
new system and it's going tocome out in two years and it's
going to solve what you or Icould be solving today through
conversation and through puttingtogether better communication
and processes.
So I agree wholeheartedly.
Sheryl (28:59):
One of the things I learned was actually from Disney
and this was when I was inbanking.
But you know, at Disney theyteach you that everything counts
and experience is everything.
And I was fascinated that youknow Disney, they make waiting
in line pleasurable.
They don't try to make the linego faster they could possibly,
(29:21):
and then again they've doneexpress, pass and so forth but
they make the wait in line, theexperience.
And then you know, on a similarvein, when the independent
sales force at Mary Kay calls,until they're connected with
some customer successrepresentative to help them,
they hear Mary Kay's words ofwisdom and sometimes sales force
(29:45):
will say oh, I answered thephone so quickly.
I wanted to hear more of therecording of Mary Kay Ash's
words of wisdom, words of wisdom.
So, again, thinking aboutexperience, not just in terms of
some of the measurable elementsof you know how fast, duration,
etc.
But are you making theexperience meaningful and
(30:07):
memorable?
Paula (30:07):
Okay, so that's actually a really good segue.
So let's move on to the nextsection.
So, words of wisdom.
So what are some of the bestwords of wisdom that you have
received throughout your career?
Sheryl (30:18):
The best advice that I received and I share it broadly
and frequently and that's to ownyour uniqueness.
I call it owning your bold.
I have come to learn that youcannot stand out when you're
trying to fit in, and when Ilook back at the times that I
was most successful and, moreimportantly, more satisfied,
(30:41):
it's when I followed myinstincts and didn't try to
quote play by someone else'splaybook, which is not to say
you don't.
Take advantage and learn fromas many people as you can.
You can learn how to do things,you can learn what not to do,
but at the end of the day, Ireally do think it's so
important that every individualhave the confidence to bring
(31:05):
their unique talent, experienceand perspective to their role.
Rich (31:09):
All right, I'll jump in with the next question the most
underrated skill.
What is, in your opinion, themost underrated skill that a
person can have today there?
Sheryl (31:17):
is, I'll say, a pressure , so to speak.
Our attention span is shorterthan a goldfish.
I don't know how they know whatgoldfish pay attention to, but
(32:02):
somehow somebody knows.
But this notion of peoplemultitasking and we have to be
quick, you have to have asoundbite, et cetera, et cetera.
I think that listening we sayit's important I don't know if
we always act like it'simportant and at the end of the
day, it is, I think, one of themost important skills and
(32:24):
resources that we have.
And when I say listen, it'slistening to our teams, it's
listening to our colleagues.
I'm a big Stephen Covey fan.
Seek first to understand, thenbe understood, and I think right
now too much might be missedbecause we don't take enough
time to listen.
(32:44):
If you could go back to thatyoung woman in college taking
fashion, merchandising or goingto Harvard, any advice that you
would give her?
I think, if I look back at thattime in my life, I would have
been even more intentional abouttraveling more, getting to know
more people.
(33:04):
It is something that I began toincorporate more along the way,
but particularly in this dayand age, knowing how important a
global sensibility is and beingable to view what is said, what
is shown through the lens of aglobal community, particularly
(33:25):
now with social media.
Everybody sees everything.
So I think if I had to go back,that would be something I
probably would have been evenmore intentional about.
Paula (33:36):
Awesome.
Well, cheryl, we have come tothe last section, which is the
rapid fire.
Are you ready?
I'm ready, all right, so it'sgoing to be a question.
It'll be rich then me, and thenrich again.
The first question that comesto our mind and the first answer
that comes to your mind, allright, so my question is what
(33:58):
three people, dead or alive,would you have at a dinner party
?
Ooh, good.
Sheryl (34:05):
One First person who comes to mind is Michelle Obama,
not only for all that we knowabout her and all that she has
shared, but I feel like at adinner conversation I might gain
even a little bit more insightin a private conversation, so
she comes to mind.
The second person I think Iwould really welcome the
(34:28):
opportunity to spend time withis actually a musician Stevie
Wonder.
I love music and as I thinkabout his career, his musical
journey over the last I want tosay five decades, all that he
has experienced, I just thinkthat would be a fascinating
(34:49):
conversation.
The third person who I think isjust so fascinating on so many
levels is actually EleanorRoosevelt, and such a
trailblazer, such an advocatefor so many, so influential and
impactful.
The more I read and learn abouther and her role and I'm sure
(35:12):
there are so many things shedeserves a lot of credit for
that maybe have not been fully,it hasn't been fully highlighted
just yet, but those are thethree who come to mind first.
Rich (35:24):
So I'm going to leverage.
I love the.
I love all three.
Eleanor Roosevelt I agree withyou.
She's one who I've been readingon a little bit more lately and
it is amazing some things thatpeople would take for granted
that she highly influenced.
All right.
So I'm going to stay with themusic theme, and normally I
would ask you what your walk onmusic is, but I'll let you
(35:44):
answer that one or I'll give youthe alternate of what would be
the most surprising artist orsong on your playlist.
Sheryl (35:54):
Oh my gosh, I have so many songs on my playlist I
don't know what would you know?
It depends who you might askand to what extent they would be
surprised.
I'm gonna say that one of myfavorite songs is Shining Star
by Earth, wind, fire.
What I love about that is sucha great affirmation, and I love
(36:17):
it for my own walk on music, butI also love it for anyone and
everyone else that you areshining bright and a shining
star and I think not enoughpeople remember that about
themselves.
And I love the fact that thatsong really celebrates the
greatness that's in each of us,that that song really celebrates
the greatness that's in each ofus.
Rich (36:36):
All right, so I'll ask the final question, and you
mentioned that with Mary Kay,you've traveled to at least 20
countries and likely beyond that.
Sheryl (36:48):
Was there a country that surprised you?
I was, first of all, all thecountries.
My experience was lovely andthe warmth of every team and so
forth.
Ukraine, and Kyiv specifically.
Just a beautiful city, muchmore colorful, more green.
(37:10):
Not what I expected.
It was certainly my first andonly time that I had a chance to
visit there many years ago, butthat really stands out to me
because I really didn't knowwhat to expect there.
Rich (37:27):
And it does have a way of pulling the world a little bit
closer together and realizingwhat people are going through
when you, it's one thing to seeit through technology, it's
another thing to see it in, youknow, with your, with your real
eyes.
Cheryl, thank you very much.
This was amazing.
I've been waiting for thissince we started the podcast.
I will personally confess thatwhen we were developing our
initial guest list, you werethere.
(37:47):
You've always been a marketerwho I've long admired, a person
that I've admired, marketer whoI've long admired, a person that
I've admired, and the customerfocus that I was able to see
firsthand in Dallas and globallythrough Mary Kay is something I
tremendously respect, and I amlooking forward to see what the
next chapter holds for you.
Sheryl (38:06):
Oh well, thank you so much.
I really do appreciate theopportunity to have this
conversation with all of you.
Rich (38:13):
So that was a great conversation with Cheryl Atkins
Green.
I will note that one of theawards she has many that she
didn't talk about was when shebeat me for CMO of the year in
DFW, but it was a fond memoryfor me because I was up against
her and the CMO at JCPenney atthe time.
(38:33):
She is impressive.
I've learned much from her overthe last many years.
Gautham (38:38):
Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation.
It was.
I mean, her breadth ofexperiences across different
industry sectors was fascinating.
And you know, bringing it allback down to we've spoken about
this many times retail is apeople business.
Irrespective of which industry,it boils down to being a people
business.
Rich (38:58):
Yeah, and I found it.
It was interesting when I askedher the question about Mary Kay
and I was talking about itbeing retail and she said you
know, it wasn't that it wasn'tretail, but it wasn't
traditional retail and it wasthat she almost seemed to
separate it from what theaverage person would think of as
retail, as bricks and mortar,that normal kind of store or web
(39:21):
transaction.
I find that interesting and Iwonder, as we've explored so
many different angles of retailand are trying to encourage
those looking for a career tocome into it, has retail been
too narrowly defined?
You know you've got a lot moredirect sellers and a lot more
you've got retail being done onsocial channels.
Is the definition thateverybody's using way too narrow
(39:44):
?
Gautham (39:44):
I'm laughing because there was a point when I was
asked to define retail and Ijust defined it as any exchange,
and when you're between an endconsumer and a business, maybe
that's a little bit too broad,but I think retail is purely a
vehicle for exchange between anend consumer and maybe not even
an end consumer, now right and abusiness.
(40:07):
And who knows, if you take thatbroader blanket, maybe we'll
have a more wide scopedefinition of retail that allows
us to position it differentlyto the upcoming generation.
Rich (40:20):
And you wonder how Mary Kay influenced what you see now
going on on social channels, orhow QVC and Home Shopping
Network influence what we seewith live stream now and how
popular it is around the world.
So great guest, I think.
Just another really cooldimension within the retail
ecosphere.
Gautham (40:37):
Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation.
That was fantastic.
Rich (40:40):
All right Well for Paula, who had to jump off a little bit
early.
Gautam and myself want to thankeverybody for joining us for
this episode of Retail Relates.
We hope you continue to staytuned, send your cards and
letters and we look forward toyou tuning in the next episode.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.