Supply Chain Networks and Personal Networking: A Conversation with Guy Courtin

What happens behind the scenes to get that package to your doorstep? Guy Courtin pulls back the curtain on the hidden world of retail logistics in this eye-opening conversation about supply chain innovation, technology adoption, and what consumers never see.

As a veteran supply chain expert with 25 years of industry experience, Guy brings refreshing clarity to complex topics. He explains how the digital revolution has completely transformed retail by shifting power from retailers to consumers. "Digital has given power to us as consumers," Guy notes, describing how his son would immediately search online when a store didn't have the Lego set he wanted. This consumer empowerment creates tremendous pressure on supply chains to deliver faster and more efficiently.

The discussion takes a fascinating turn when exploring technology adoption. Guy cautions against the blind pursuit of buzzworthy innovations without clear purpose, particularly with artificial intelligence. "We're trying to predict the future with the past. That doesn't work," he observes, sharing how Motorola once ramped up Razr production just as the iPhone was introduced. His balanced perspective emphasizes finding the right applications for technology rather than viewing it as either a universal solution or an existential threat.

Perhaps most compelling is Guy's insight into how supply chains are evolving from just-in-time models to more resilient systems in response to global disruptions. He explains how retailers are rethinking inventory strategies while simultaneously exploring personalization options that can customize products at the latest possible stage in production.

Whether you're a retail professional looking to understand supply chain dynamics or simply curious about how products move through our increasingly connected world, this conversation offers valuable perspective on the infrastructure that powers modern commerce. As Guy reminds us, "You have to be your number one champion" - advice that resonates far beyond supply chain careers.

Guy Courtin Bio:

Guy Courtin is a well-respected thought leader and speaker on the future of supply chain, automation, and technology trends. As the Vice President of Industry and Global Alliances at Tecsys, he leads their omnichannel supply chain technology go-to-market strategy and oversees the global alliance program. He brings over 25 years of experience in the supply chain industry, having held senior leadership roles at 6 Rivers, Infor, Progress Software, and i2 Technologies. In addition, he has been an industry analyst covering the supply chain space for SCM World, Constellation Research, and Forrester Research. Guy holds an MBA from the Olin School at Babson College, a Master’s degree from Loyola University Chicago, and a Bachelor’s degree from The College of the Holy Cross.

Guy is a RETHINK Retail Top Expert. He has been featured in numerous industry publications, podcasts, and panels speaking on the evolving supply chain ecosystem, the role of technology, and the interplay between physical and digital customer experiences. He proffers insight into the future of the supply chain and how evolving technologies are forging new paradigms.

Episode Transcript

Rich (00:00):
So welcome to another episode of Retail Relates.
I am very excited to introduceeveryone to Guy Courtin, and I'm
really hoping I am pronouncinghis last name right with the
last name of Honiball (HONEYBALL).
I take how people's names arepronounced very personally.
He is somebody that I've knownfor three or four years and he
is one of those people that youmeet in life that doesn't

(00:23):
introduce themselves by whatthey do for work.
I've had the chance to get toknow Guy through Rethink Retail.
We've had several conversations.
We went to have the opportunityto go to breakfast once at the
end of a conference and theconversation was on a wide range
of issues personal andprofessional, and different
topics and it's when I invitedhim to be on this podcast and I

(00:47):
find his take on many subjectsto be refreshing.
The reality is that Guy is anexpert when it comes to
end-to-end logistics, supplychain technology and its use and
sometimes misuse, and so headds that tangible value to the
episode.

(01:07):
I think the discussion of whencompanies take technology too
far and chase the shiny objectcan be an issue.
Conversely, when companies orindividuals shun technology
because they're afraid of whatit might do to their jobs or
they live in fear of it.
I think he does a very good jobframing out the risk that we

(01:28):
take and not being able toadvance, and I think you'll
especially like his take on theneed to continually develop
personal relationships.
It is one of those things thatwe take for granted in this day
and age of the risk of becominga dystopian novel where I'll
have my AI contact your AIbefore we ever meet, and

(01:50):
thankfully our AIs didn't standin the way of Guy and I meeting,
so hope you enjoy this episode.
For now I'm going to turn itover to Paula, who will
introduce our guest, and we willsee you on the other side.

Paula (02:03):
So Guy Courtin is a well-respected thought leader
and speaker on the future ofsupply chain automation and
technology trends.
As the vice president ofindustry and global alliances at
Texas, he leads theiromni-channel supply chain
technology go-to-market strategyand oversees the global
alliance program.
He brings over 25 years ofexperience in the supply chain

(02:24):
industry, having held seniorleadership roles at Six Rivers,
infor, progress Software and i2Technologies.
In addition, he has been anindustry analyst covering the
supply chain space for SCM World, constellation Research and
Forrester Research.
Guy holds an MBA from the OlinSchool at Babson College, a

(02:46):
master's degree from LoyolaUniversity, chicago and a
bachelor's degree from theCollege of the Holy Cross.
Guy is a REthink Retail topexpert.
He has been featured innumerous industry publications,
podcasts and panels speaking onthe evolving supply chain
ecosystem, the role oftechnology and the interplay
between physical and digitalcustomer experiences.

(03:07):
He proffers insight into thefuture of the supply chain and
how evolving technologies areforging new paradigms.
Guy, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
We really appreciate you andyour time.

Guy (03:18):
Thank you for having me here.

Paula (03:19):
Awesome, so we're going to get started on learning a
little bit more about you.
So, instead of asking you thetraditional tell me about
yourself, let's talk about whatwere the three most pivotal
points in your career or lifethat have led you to where you
are today.

Guy (03:33):
You know, when I think about sort of the three key
points in my life that havegotten me to where I am today,
it's interesting.
I'll take education aside.
I think education certainly hada huge driver in where I've
gotten to and where I am today.
But from a professionalperspective, I think the first
one was I worked at Forrester.
I worked at Forrester Researchin the late 90s and those of us

(03:54):
who are listening, who eitherwere around or have read this in
the history books, remember itwas a dot-com boom, and I mean I
can go on for hours about a lotof the things I saw during that
time.
I mean, the one I like to bringup is you know are this little
company out of Seattle used tocome brief us and they were so
cute, they sold books and CDsonline and you know it's Jeff

(04:15):
Bezos guy and why don't you callit bookscom or CDscom and you
call it Amazon.
And you know I look back onthat and just those interactions
and I realized just how farahead they were thinking in
terms of where retail was going,where fulfillment was going,
and then also, you know, notjust Amazon but a whole raft of
startups and other companiesthat I was privileged to talk to

(04:36):
during the time and to somedegree you know, seeing the rise
of the dot-coms and how itdrove our economy and then the
subsequent crash, you know it'sjust as big of a part of it as
anything.
So I think that's one a biginfluence in terms of where I've
gotten to.
I think the second one is comingout of business school and
really getting into supply chain, getting into fulfillment and
logistics and going to a companycalled i2, which is now Blue

(04:57):
Yonder.
That really gave me an insightinto what I thought at the time.
I remember coming out of thedot-com boom and being like big
problem here is we have allthese promises for consumers and
then we realized wait, a minute, I got to move that product
from point A to point B and Ihave to do it in a profitable
way.
So this whole area of logisticsand fulfillment and supply
chain really was important and Ireally gravitated towards, and

(05:18):
being able to work at ITU wasabsolutely massive from that
perspective.
It really gave me a lot ofinsight and a lot of experience
across the board and supplychain, but specifically in
retail.
And I would say the third one,more recently, is and this is I
don't want to say by luck, butit kind of just happened by
circumstance.
I ended up at a company calledSix River.
We did robotics for warehousing.
It really opened my eye to thiswhole automation world,

(05:41):
robotics, what it means for thefuture, not just the fulfillment
but in our industry as a wholeand really getting my hands
around that and spending a lotof time in that space has really
, at least in the recent past soin the past few years has
really pushed me in a differentdirection in terms of my career
and to some degree in terms ofmy curiosity and what I've
looked at.
So I would say those are sortof the three big points in my

(06:04):
life that I reflect back on havereally impacted where I've
ended up today.

Rich (06:08):
Is this what you wanted to do?
One of the things that I willeditorialize is that when I met
you, I really I wasn't sure whatyou did, because we would have
conversations that would run thegamut just because of your
curiosity.
So, coming out of school, isthis where you were heading or

(06:28):
did you have another path inmind?

Guy (06:30):
Yeah, you know, rich, if you asked the 10-year-old guy
and then the 18-year-old guy andthen the 22-year-olds, the term
supply chain would probably benot in the top, you know, be
number 197 on the list of 100.
So, yeah, it's education-wise,you know it's education wise,
you know.
I, I, I'll be frank, um, I, youknow, I went through my
education process kind of notreally knowing where I wanted to

(06:50):
go, what I wanted to do.
Um, I have two incredibly highachieving parents that kind of
was an issue at sometimes.
Um, both my parents have PhDs.
Uh, I will freely admit, untilI was about 20 years old, I just
assumed everybody got a PhD.
And then I realized, nope, no,no, no, not everybody gets a
bachelor's, let alone a master's, let alone a PhD.
And so, you know, in my mindset, rich, it was always I go to

(07:14):
school because that's what youdo, you get your education, you
advance and you get a master'sand maybe get a PhD.
I didn't.
But really, for me, what I lookback upon in my education in
terms of what I wanted to do, ina weird way, coming out of it,
I knew I wanted to do somethingthat was global, that was, I
want to say, a little bit morenebulous, meaning I wasn't

(07:34):
someone who went to college andsaid, oh, I'm going to be a
lawyer, so I'm going to studypolitical science and then go to
law school, or I'm going to bean accountant, so I need to
understand accounting, or wouldbe a doctor, right and go to
medical school, or I would be anartist or whatever trade you
know someone pursues.
I really I didn't have sort ofthat, that direction.
Now you could argue, it's funnybecause my mother's Chinese.

(07:55):
So, being a tiger mom, youcould think she'd be like no,
you're going to be a doctor oryou're going to do this, and.
But she wasn't like that.
But you know it, it really kindof just found its way to where
I am today.
And I will say I mentioned backto Paul your earlier question
about influence when I was atForrester.
What was great for me is Ialways knew I liked technology
Rich.
That was definitely an area Iwas curious about, not to the

(08:19):
level of becoming a programmeror building hardware, but really
how technology impactedpeople's lives and how we took
advantage of it.
And Forrester really opened myeyes even more to that and I
think it was really influentialin terms of, hey, there's a lot
of opportunity out there interms of tech, in terms of, to
some degree, of being able tounderstand or translate tech to
what most people could relate to.

(08:40):
So that's kind of what pushedme in that direction.
And then I think, again bycircumstance, I ended up being
in supply chain and been in thespace for 25 years and I love it
.
And to your question, I waslike I didn't study operations
in college.
I didn't study, I didn't do.
I mean I did some math but Iwasn't very good at it.
So I never really took what youwould consider air quotes a

(09:00):
traditional supply chain path.

Gautham (09:03):
G, let me ask a question.
You talked about multipledifferent touch points in your
career.
Can you share with the audienceyour star success and is
possibly a failure that youlearned from?

Guy (09:17):
To your question.
I always tell this to people.
You know I've been doing this,like I said, for 25 years.
I used to consider myself, oh,I'm just a young guy in the
industry.
Now I'm like, oh no, I'm kindof a grisly veteran.
I've been around the block.
One of the things I learnedearly on and I will freely admit
from a personal perspectivegetting let go from a company is
really hard, right, that's ashock to the system.
The harsh reality is anybody, Iwould say, in any industry

(09:40):
today, moving forward.
That's going to be part ofwhere we live.
You know the days of peoplestarting at a company and
retiring at that company.
It's few and far between.
Like you know, it's interesting.
My cousin, who's a couple ofmonths older than me, she
actually has been at Chevronsince she left college, so she's
been there, that's it.
And it's just it's mindboggling to me that that's still

(10:01):
available.
But for me I think that's thefirst lesson was this notion of
you know what companies aregoing to hire and fire.
I mean, that's just the realityof the world we live in.
I think this whole notion ofbeing an employee at will we
have to remember that I thinkit's harsh, it's brutal, it's
tough.
At the same point, the onelesson or the big lesson I took
out of that Gotham was that youknow what.
You're a smart kid, you can getthrough it.

(10:23):
You'll find another job.
It stinks, it's hard I'm notsaying it's easy but there's
ways to get to the next step.
And part of that, too, is thelesson I have always taken from.
That is not to say you'realways trying to leave, because
I'm not.
I'm very hyper today, but youalways have to be your number
one champion, meaning you haveto build your brand, you have to
build your skillset.

(10:43):
You have to be your number onechampion, meaning you have to
build your brand, you have tobuild your skill set, you have
to promote yourself.
You have to, as an individualout there, be prepared to toot
your own horn because no oneelse will.
And that's the one harsh lessonthat I've taken.
Now, the positive to me has beena lot of the experiences I've
had throughout my career.
The real positive is just theability to build this great

(11:03):
network that you can rely on,and I think that's been a
positive for me, and it's notone incident where that's
happened.
It's really been across theboard, starting at Forrester and
through business school and I2and other companies.
And from that perspective and Ido think what's interesting is
with today's digital tools,linkedin in particular the
ability to continue to buildthat network is invaluable and I

(11:26):
think that's a positive.
I've taken out of it and I don'tknow if that's a good or a bad
thing, but I do travel a lot andthere are times where I'll run
into people who remember me andI hate to say this and I
apologize.
Sometimes I'm like I don'tremember who the heck you are.
But that's why LinkedIn isgreat.
I think I know this person isand I look them up, but it's
just that feeling of hey, youknow you've made an impact on
people and they remember you andhopefully you do right for by

(11:46):
them and usually you do, and Ithink that's the positive I've
taken, you know, through throughmy career and I continue.
I hopefully continue to do soand and that you know it's like
meeting with podcast, so youknow something was right, but no
, I think that's.
Those are the two areas Gotham,and I think you know from a,

(12:09):
like I said at the end of theday, especially in the industry
that I work in, but industry asa whole.
You're your number one champion.
So make sure you build yourselfin that way and it's not
bragging, but because you knowwhat.
No one else is going to do itfor you.
You got to do it for yourself.

Gautham (12:24):
I love that.
I always I start every semesterwith one key point build your
own brand, which is what youtalked about and I also talk
about.
The only thing permanent ischange and if you look at Bureau
of Labor Statistics, theaverage, the median tenure has
come down to, I think, 3.5 yearsor something at a company and I
personally think we'll be anetwork of connected humans at

(12:45):
some point of time.
It's no sure corporations mightbe different.
So I love what you said.
I do have one quick follow-upquestion to you.
Right, it is a shock to thesystem, as you said, sometimes
being let go.
Any advice for people tonavigate that immediate
environment?

Guy (13:02):
Yeah, and I know this is going to sound easier said than
done, right, I think the firstand foremost is to take a step
back.
We all get that and I'll freelyadmit, I fell into the same
trap.
Right, you get let go and thefirst thing you're doing you're
on the phone, you're on email,you're on LinkedIn.
You're like, oh, I got to findthe next job and I get it.
That's a natural human reaction.

(13:23):
I think.
For me, what I've learned in thepast is hey, you take a pause,
take a breath.
Right, take some time,decompress.
I mean, it is a shock to thesystem.
You've basically been told it'snot you, it's me and I'm going
to break up with you and that'stough.
Right, that's tough any way youlook at it.
And I also don't want todiminish like, there's obviously
a financial aspect to it, right?
I mean, you know, at the end ofthe day, we're not doing this

(13:45):
for charity.
We have families to maintain,we got to pay rent.
You know we have to paymortgages, we have to buy food.
What I would tell people is giveyourself permission to just
decompress, take a step back anddon't rush into, you know,
trying to find the next job.
That doesn't mean sit aroundfor a year, but that means you

(14:09):
know being able to enjoy timewith your family, enjoy time by
yourself, enjoy time you knowwith your friends, not to sound
cheesy but go for a walk.
I think it really helps toclear the cobwebs, clear the
mind.
And then I would say you knowit's start networking.
And part of what I said earliertoo and I think this is
hopefully you're doing thisalready is you should always be
networked, whether you're at agreat job that you're going to
be for the rest of your life, oryou're out and you're
independently wealthy, whateversituation you are, you should
always be networking, becausethese are the times when you're

(14:31):
going to lean on that network,and I think that's the important
part.
So the challenge is thathopefully, or you should be
networking regularly so thatwhen this does happen, the first
thing you're doing is notreaching out to people who are
like who the heck are you?
And you're like wait, we talkedtwo years ago.
And that's the part I thinkthat people forget is I get
calls a lot and I try to help asmuch as I can.
People who got laid off arelike hey, I'm looking for a new

(14:52):
job, here's my resume.
I try to help as much as I canand I'm fine with that.
But I will freely admit theones relationship, no matter how
minimal that feels, will getmore of my attention than
someone out of the blue justlike hey, I need a job, help me.

Rich (15:06):
Yeah, and I love the comment there because, if you
think about it, one of thechallenges right now is when
people are applying for jobs andthere's a conversation about
technology and humanity.
Ai might might might be able tohelp you get your resume past a
thousand other people, but thepersonal connections that we
build are more likely to get youto the right place.

(15:27):
So I think that's a goodexclamation.
So I'm going to pivot a littlebit to learning more about your
experience with supply chaintechnology, talk a little bit
about circular commerce.
But I'm going to start with abasic question, because one of
the reasons that we started thispodcast is to expose kind of a
360 degree view of retail tothose in search of a career at

(15:50):
the early stage of their career.
Gautam would probably say thesame thing, and I've learned it
is that we're teaching a lot ofremarkable young students, but
the majority of them aren'tlooking at retail as a career.
So I will ask you the verysimple question what is retail?

Guy (16:05):
What is retail?
What is retail?
So I'm going to answer in avery esoteric way.
I've said that retail is one ofonly two industries that all of
us here on this podcast andlistening are a part of.
The other one is healthcare.
Right, because at the end ofthe day, whether we're
shopaholics and we buy way toomuch stuff I might fall in that
category or we just buy ourbasic groceries and clothing, et

(16:26):
cetera, we are part of retail.
If we go see our doctor whichwe all should and our dentist,
then we're part of healthcarethe other industries we might or
might not be part of.
So I'll start with that answer,rich.
But retail to me is really, atthe end of the day, it's the
majority of what we do, becauseit's all transactional.
And I would even say, if welook at some parts of healthcare
, there's certainly some partsof retail that creep into that.

(16:46):
If I look at a pharmacy, aretail pharmacy, that's retail.
Yeah, they're selling meprescriptions and things like
that, but it's retail, it's atransaction.
I as a consumer, going in toacquire a product, whether that
product is something fun for me,like a new suit, or something I
need, like medication, it's atransaction.

(17:07):
So to me, retail is reallyspans a very wide swath in terms
of what it is for our dailylives.
And then I would say what isretail from an industry side?
You know, we see I hate to usethis analogy but I apologize the
iceberg right.
We see, the top of the icebergis always grocery stores and
clothing stores and shoppingmalls and e-commerce sites and
mobile sites and all this.
What we don't see is everythingunderneath, and that's a lot of
stuff that I deal with Supplychain right.
Reverse logistics, fulfillment,planning, sourcing,

(17:29):
manufacturing, moving products,storing products, disposing of
products, right.
There's a whole world thatdeals with retail that we don't
see on a daily basis.
I'll give you a funny story.
So I mentioned my parents.
My mother, obviously veryeducated.
She has a PhD in art historyand an MBA and all that good
stuff and has her own businessand very smart, and for the last

(17:50):
couple of decades she's likewhat the hell do you do?
I don't understand what yourbusiness is.
Pandemic hits, she gives me aphone call.
Hey, I know what you do now.
I went to the grocery store.
There was nothing on the storeshelves.
I understand what supply chainis now.
To me, it was an example of.
You know, we see that top ofthe iceberg.
We don't see what's below it.
Something like pandemic hitsand all of a sudden we realize,

(18:11):
hey, there's a wholeinfrastructure of stuff that's
related to retail, that goes on,that gets you that roll of
toilet paper onto thesupermarket shelf at the right
time and the right place at theright price.

Rich (18:21):
That's a perfect segue into and I'm okay with the
analogy on the iceberg, as longas we're not the Titanic heading
towards it.
But it's a good segue into thelesson in your background,
because what you do and wouldlove to pick your brain a little
bit more are the things that gounnoticed to the average

(18:45):
consumer but are a very criticalpart of retail and an exciting
part of the industry.
When I ask you the question,the underlying tone is make me
excited about it as somebodywho's been more on the buying
and the marketing end.
If you can't get the product infront of the customer or to
them on time, then it doesn'treally matter.

(19:06):
Tell me how let's talk abouthow technology has impacted the
supply chain.
How has it evolved since I'vestarted, especially in the
supply chain?

Guy (19:14):
side is the digitization of supply chain, of the
relationship.
The other big driver I've seenfrom digital transformation is
the power of the consumer.
Right, I look back to you know,when I was before I got to

(19:37):
Forrester, it was always welllike.
Walmart told you what to do,almost right.
Walmart dictated and they stillhave a lot of power, don't get
me wrong, I get that, butWalmart was really the 800-pound
gorilla.
They dictate things and I as aconsumer just kind of took
whatever you offered me theprice or the product or the
availability and I took it forgranted.
I remember back when I was a kidand I'm a big soccer fan and I

(20:02):
remember my only access togetting a French national team
soccer kit was I'd have to get aFrench soccer magazine called
ONZ, which stands for 11, go tothe back page and there was like
one page of products and Iwould have to get my grandmother
to fill it out and order it andthen put it on a boat, or they
would put it on a boat to get tome and maybe it would get to me

(20:22):
within a month or two or maybethree months, but at some point
it would get to me and it wassuper exciting, but I was at the
whim of you know, this retailer.
That's the only way I could getthis.
Digital has obviously turnedthis upside down.
I think today, to some degree,we take it for granted, like, oh
well, I can buy some Persianrug from the middle of Pakistan
and have it shipped to me no rugfrom the middle of Pakistan and

(20:45):
have it shipped to me, no issue.
Or I can buy some spice fromBrazil and have it shipped to me
, no issue, right?
Or I can be a hot sauce vendorin Brooklyn and send it and sell
it to anyone in the world.
We take this digitalconnectivity, I think, at times
for granted, but when I look atthe biggest disruptor I've seen
in terms of retail, that's beenit and what that's done is that
has given the power, obviously,to us as consumers.
Because, again, I have a now17-year-old.

(21:06):
When he was a little kid hestill loves Legos.
He'd walk into a Target If hedidn't see the Lego he liked.
He'd be like dad, give me yourphone, I'm going to get on
Google or Amazon, I'm going tofind the product I want and I
can order it when I want.
Now I wouldn't always let himdo it, but in his mindset well,
why can't I get it?
I could get whatever I want.
If it's not in the store, I'llget it somewhere else.
What that's also has done from apressure perspective is now our

(21:29):
supply chains have to be evenmore responsive.
Our supply chains have to beable to meet this demand that's
been created by the digitalfront end, and then we need to
take as many tools as we canfrom that digitization to help
us drive the supply chain.
So, whether that's betterplanning, better forecasting,
better understanding of whereinventory is, better
understanding of transportationneeds, better understanding of

(21:52):
desires, if you will, ofconsumers, I think that is the
underlying tool that will helpus meet those needs.
But that digital consumer hasreally turned everything upside
down, and especially from asupply chain perspective.
Because, yeah, I can put up alot of pretty pictures and
descriptions using a website ora mobile site.
I still got to move that productand that product guess what

(22:13):
it's in the physical world, andthat's last I checked.
I can only move a ship acrossthe ocean at a certain speed.
I can only get to so many itemsthrough the Suez Canal unless
someone runs a boat aground.
I can only get stuff on theroad moving as quickly as I can.
You know, there are physicalconstraints that we absolutely
have to deal with, and that'sthe challenge, guy let me ask a
follow-up question.

Gautham (22:32):
It's interesting that we're having this conversation
today sudden depetus baby whenyesterday I was talking about
supply chain innovations andgiving a talk on how the firms
are engaging in these activities, several of them engaging in
emerging technologies such asblockchain, ai, metaverse and
IoT.
Right, you worked in a roboticcompany before, as I remember it

(22:54):
.
Talk to us about how theseemerging technologies are
changing in supply chain, and Ialso want to ask a follow-up
question which is a little bitmore directed towards my
research.
I'm finding that the financialmarkets might not be viewing it
as positively as deploying moreof the established technologies,
the digitization that you spokeabout, rfid, an age-old

(23:17):
technology being deployed again.
Can you talk about why thatmight be the case as well?

Guy (23:25):
So to answer your last question, first, I think I'm not
surprised that some of thefinancial institutions or
financial markets are not aspositive about some of these
technologies, because I agreewith them.
I think a lot of the hypearound let's take AI, for
example a lot of the hype aroundAI is, I think, misplaced.
I think it's also driven.
I'm going to pick on notanybody by name, but I'm going

(23:46):
to pick on software vendors likemyself not saying me, but some
in my space who have latched onto this notion of AI and just
think by throwing AI at anythingwill all of a sudden make it
better.
First, I find thatirresponsible because you know,
when I give a talk on AI, allthe time and I usually start my
talk by putting up the date 1956.

(24:08):
And I say, well, what happenedthat year?
And hey, guess what?
That's when AI was invented.
Right, that's when they sataround at Dartmouth and talked
about this thing calledartificial intelligence.
So it's not something that'snew.
It's been around for a whileNow.
Yeah, we have more computationpower.
We have a tremendous amount ofdata.
So, yeah, we're achievingthings we never thought we could
with AI when it started in 1956.

(24:30):
With that being said.
One of the things that I see iswe're trying to apply AI to
things like better supply chainplanning so that I can meet my
consumers' needs and producethings at the right time, the
right place to have, or thechallenge I always have for
things like that is well, wait aminute, you're trying to

(24:50):
predict the future with the past.
That doesn't work, right.
That doesn't work, because whowas going to tell me that in
2007, using historical dataaround mobile phones the Razer,
nokia and all that they'dpredict that the iPhone would be
what it's become Now, inhindsight, of course oh my
goodness, of course the iPhoneis going to be what it was.
Come on, give me a break.
I remember when iPhone came outand I was a big BlackBerry user

(25:12):
and I was like there's no wayI'm using a non-textile.
You know textile.
Forget that.
Motorola's Razr was the numberone phone.
It was selling like hotcakesand Motorola used their

(25:32):
historical data to then up theproduction of Razr.
Unfortunately, steve Jobs stoodup and showed the iPhone at the
same time, so now Motorolaoverproduced the phone and they
got clobbered with that.
The reason I bring up this,gautam, is that I think there's
a notion of well, let's throwmore of this cool technology at
the problem and it'll solve it?
Man, I don't think so.
We're still.
I heard someone say this theother day, so I can't take

(25:53):
credit for it.
It's we're trying to solve thesame problems, but just throw a
new technology at it.
The problems are the same,right, and just we have better
tools.
Yeah, we look at some of thesenew technologies.
We have to separate ourselvesfrom the coolness of the

(26:14):
technology to the tool it'sgoing to provide and then how we
as an industry are going toleverage that tool.
I think it was with arms law orsomething where, you know, we we
overestimate technology in thenear term and underestimate in
the longterm.
I certainly think there's someaspect of that.
I'm certainly not poo-pooing AIto the point of saying it's not

(26:34):
getting important.
I think there's some absoluteuse cases.
I focus a lot on what I callsort of the narrow AI, right, so
things.
And I look in supply chain likehey, better fulfillment, better
logistics, better last milerouting, better route
optimization within thewarehouse.
You know blockchain held outall this promise of, oh well,
we're going to have these securesupply chains, yada, yada, yada
.
Honestly, we were already doingthat with non-blockchain

(26:56):
technology.
If I look at some of my formeremployers, like GT, nexus and
others who had created thesenetworks and network of networks
, you know we weren't usingblockchain, but we were a
reliable network, so sure Icould do it on blockchain and be
air quotes a little bit moresecure.
But if I've already created thenetwork and it's pretty
reliable, why am I going tochange it?

(27:17):
Why am I going to try to chasethe best instead of just what's
good enough?
And I think that's where I'mseeing a lot of this.
So the challenge I have for usin the supply chain space with
tools is these new technologiesare great, but give me the use
case.
I think we just have to be verycautious with that.
I certainly I'm a technologist,so I always believe in the
importance of technology, but Ialso believe in the give me a

(27:38):
use case and don't just you knowI'm a hammer and everything's a
nail philosophy.

Gautham (27:42):
I love that you gave me an.
So what we did was we looked ata large amount of data to see
how the stock market reacted tothese innovations.
And what you're saying we seein the data in the sense that
more of the fundamentalinnovations are rewarded more
than these emerging innovations.
So it's just saying like, hey,get your host foundation right

(28:03):
before you go to these moreadvanced cases, which is exactly
the point you're making.
Can I ask one follow-upquestion, maybe a little bit
different and specific to retail?
You know, like supply chain isseeing its movement in the
spotlight.
It used to be.
It's a cost center.
Right Now we're using this todeliver value and to

(28:24):
differentiate.
We're also moving from.
Perhaps it's my perspective,but we used to think about
getting products lean right,just-in-time delivery so that
you have minimum inventory goingthrough the system.
But with these shocks that'shappening in the system now, we
have to think a little bitdifferently.
Are you sensing that in theretail context?

(28:47):
Are you seeing people changingthe way they look at the flow of
products through their valuechain?

Guy (28:54):
Yeah, gautam, the new term we're hearing all the time
supply chain resilience, I wouldfreely admit you.
Ask five people what theirdefinition of resilience is,
you'll get seven definitions.
For me, resilience is, yes,it's these shocks.
But I also have this and I getfrustrated at times because I
will fully admit this, if I hearthe term the new normal, I'm
going to scream, because when Ithink of supply chain, there is

(29:16):
no new normal, right, supplychain has always been about
disruptions.
Now, granted, pandemic, massive, global disruption, absolutely.
But if you start boiling downsupply chains, you realize that
we've been dealing with this.
I'll give you an example Workwith the Gap.
Years ago they had a fire in awarehouse outside of Chicago One
little warehouse I mean notlittle, but one warehouse out of

(29:38):
all their warehouses burned.
They basically told me thatjust ruined our Q3.
We're done.
We can't make our numbersbecause, to your point, gotham,
like they were, like this isjust in time, like our supply
chain is resilient, we can'tmeet this now.
So the reason I bring thisstory up is I think these types
of disruptions are across theboard and we as as everyday

(29:58):
citizens, probably don't seemost of them.
We, as supply chain nerds, likewe see this all the time and I
think what we're seeing more andmore is that, yes, this notion
of resilience, this notion of ofJIT right, just more, is that,
yes, this notion of resilience,this notion of of JIT right,
just in time, is kind of beingpushed out because on paper, oh
yeah, it makes perfect sense.
Rich clicks buy on the computerand or he's browsing an item on
the computer and that signal isgoing back and the factory's

(30:20):
actually building it.
So once you hit buy, it'sfinished building and it's on
the truck and it's going to yourhouse in two weeks.
Amazing, right.
And Dell kind of gave us thatexample when they did and I can
talk about Dell in a second ofwhat they really were doing but
Dell was doing that and we allthought, well, this JIT model is
perfect, we should all do that.
No inventory, no carrying costs, right, the customer gets your

(30:41):
product at the same time.
But then we realized, back tothis notion of a physical world,
there is physics involved.
I have to physically move anobject, store it.
Things like fires happen,things like theft, things like,
you know, bad planning, allthese things happen.
So what I'm seeing and what'sinteresting is outside of retail
.
I'll take another example, likein the healthcare space I am
seeing more and more, especiallyin like pharmaceuticals, where

(31:03):
for a while they played aroundthe notion of just in time
hospitals, et cetera.
Now they realize, eh, we can'tdo that.
You know, this is about reallyat times about life and death,
and we can't be like, well,paula's really sick and has
rushed to the emergency room,we'll get the products to her
just-in-time.
No, you can't do that becauseyou can't predict when she's
going to be in and oh, by theway, if you are delayed it has

(31:24):
real repercussions.
So we have to be more concernedabout the patient and the care
than in terms of the accountingand finance, and I think we're
seeing that across the board,especially in certain areas of
retail.
I think what I'm seeing inretail from a supply chain side,
which I think is veryinteresting, is because there's
another factor to this, which ispersonalization.
How can I personalize products?

(31:44):
Because I want.
I'll give you an example.
I'm, unfortunately, when wetalked earlier about all this
being part of the retail space Ido shop a little bit too much,
and one of my favorite thingsnow is you can buy these custom
shirts, and one of the things onthese shirts is you can
literally have one sleeve alittle bit shorter or longer
than the other one.
I've done this before.
So I mentioned I'm a soccerplayer, I'm an Adidas person

(32:05):
through and through and I usedto order my boots through Adidas
and you could, hey, my rightfoot's a 10 and my left foot to
10 and a half, so you could havethis real personalization.
Uh, let alone, you know,putting the French flag on the
shoes and all that stuff.
But anyways, part of that issupply chain too.
Right Is how, how long can Idelay the final product so that
I can personalize at the lastpoint?
And I think that's where supplychain has a real powerful play

(32:29):
with this.
So it's resilience.
Yes, like I want to make surelike a Home Depot hey, there's a
hurricane coming I'm resilientand I can make sure I have the
right products when people needit.
Obviously, pharmacy anotherstory.
But now also from a retailperspective.
You know, I want to order thatsport coat, but I have a special
need.
I want to, you know, want it atthe last minute.
Okay, if I'm the retailer, howcan I hold off to the last

(32:50):
minute?
Right, it's kind of like whatBenetton did back in the 80s,
which is I want to color thatshirt at the very last moment so
that I can just produce a bunchof white shirts and then
someone wants a pink one, andsomeone wants a black one, and
someone wants a blue one.
I'll color it at the lastsecond.
That's a supply supply chainplay and I think that's where,

(33:11):
to your question, we're seeingthat change in the mindset of
retailers and others with theirsupply chain, which is it's not
just a back office thing, it'snot just something to get a
product from point A to point Bor to make it.
It's really something where Ican leverage it for a strategic
opportunity to capture morerevenue from the customer, to be
more prepared to capture marketshare and to be more resilient,

(33:35):
whatever that means for myspecific supply chain.

Rich (33:39):
You mentioned technology and specifically AI.
There's this ongoing debatethat is happening globally here
in the country on this podcastabout the use of technology and
its impact on the workforce.
You talk about the reality thatwe may be overly dependent on
technology.
Organizations are falling inlove with the shiny object to
seemingly solve problems, butaren't really identifying what
those problems are.
On the other hand, we have thispotential resistance to

(34:04):
technology when it can helpsolve the problem, because
people are afraid of it and thepotential loss of jobs.
Where do we find the balancehere.

Guy (34:15):
That's a massive question, and I think we've seen it
recently, right With the threatof the port strike on the East
Coast.
A big reason for that strikewas they didn't want more
automation.
But the challenge I would sayto that is yeah, but automation?
I mean, do you want to go backto the 1920s, when your dock
workers all carry these bigclaws and were just like claw
stuff and moving into boats?
The infusion of some automationand jobs, like offloading and

(34:40):
unloading boats, is important.
Why?
Because it's about safety, it'sabout repetitiveness, it is
about protecting the human aswell.
But there is that perceptionthat it's going to take jobs and
I can't sit here and say, oh,no, no, no, automation and AI
and all this aren't going toeliminate some jobs.
But so did the telephone, sodid the steam engine, so did a
whole host of innovations theloom, the weave, loom, right,

(35:04):
all these technical innovationsthat we've seen throughout time.
These industrial innovationshave eliminated jobs.
Have they eliminated employment?
No, but they've eliminatedcertain jobs in manufacturing
and warehousing.
But why is that?
If you look at the Japanesepopulation, it's at a net

(35:33):
negative right.
There's not enough birth ratesin Japan to sustain people that
are aging out of work.
There's not a big immigrationpopulation, so you don't have a
lot of labor to sustain what youhave.
So where do you turn?
You turn to automation.
I look at the United States.
If you take away theimmigration population, we have
the same problem here we're at anet deficit in terms of

(35:53):
population.
So automation, invariably, isgoing to have to play a role
with that, because we just don'thave literally the humans to do
some of the work.
I'll give you an example.
I worked at Six Rivers.
We were an AMR right AutonomousMobile Robot in the warehouse
to help do picking.
We would go literally into somewarehouses where the warehouse

(36:13):
would say, listen, we justcannot find labor, we just can't
.
We need these robots because wedon't have enough people to
pick.
So, yes, there was some or a lotof sales opportunities where it
was hey, we're going to makeyou do more picking more
efficiently, and all thisresisting labor.
We had a whole host who said,literally we can't find labor.
So what do I need to do?
I need to look at automation,because robotics and automation

(36:35):
will complement the labor Ialready have and just maintain
what I can do, not get ahead.
That's what we're reallylooking at from that perspective
, rich, and I do think there's aperception which is, hey,
robots and all this will takejobs, and yeah, they'll take
some jobs away, but they won'ttake employment away.
And I think the savvy retailersand others who are looking at

(36:59):
robots will look at this as acomplementary technology to
maintain where they are andpotentially get a little bit
ahead.
And will there be somedisruption in their jobs?
Potentially, but the employmentlevel will stay the same.

Rich (37:09):
Yeah, and I think you've seen that in some countries
where the agreement has beenthat the automation would call
for a maintaining of theemployment strength and you
could grow output I know that'swhat took place in the textile
industry in Italy.
So I was reading this articlethe future of retail in a
post-pandemic world found itfascinating.
So I was reading this articlethe Future of Retail in a

(37:30):
Post-Pandemic World found itfascinating, and I wanted to
know if the person beinginterviewed for that a couple of
years ago is seeing come truewhat you talked about, and
specifically with the circulareconomy, and you can delve into
returns if you want.
But I'm particularly interestedin your thoughts on circular
commerce.

Guy (37:49):
Yeah, and whoever was for that interview must have been
brilliant.
But no, I think the circulareconomy has not gone to the
place I had hoped or believed itwould have at this point.
It doesn't mean that it's notgoing to, but I think the
circular economy and it'sinteresting because some of the
statistics I remember looking upback then and I looked up some

(38:11):
recent ones, but just somerecent ones like 92 million tons
of textiles waste per yearglobally, the US accounts for 17
million of that.
I mean I think somehow it camedown to like 60 pounds per
person in the United States oftextiles was thrown and it
basically all goes to landfill.
That is just not sustainable,no pun intended.
But what has been frustratingfor me is we've seen a lot of

(38:34):
efforts, whether it's consumerelectronics, whether it's
companies like Madewell whattheir interesting return policy?
Whether it's companies likeLevi's trying to reduce the
amount of water used for jeansall great efforts.
I just feel at times that we asconsumers have not shifted our
mindset yet.
All we have to do is look atlike Timu right, timu pops up

(38:54):
and all of a sudden they'reselling.
Like what are they selling?
They're selling a bunch of.
I hate to say it this way butcrap that we end up probably
throwing away.
So for every step forward wetake, it's almost like we take
two steps back because someonefinds a way to take advantage of
our, in a way,short-sightedness and acting
like a two-year-old at times,when you just dangle something
in front of us and we have tobuy it and then it sits in our

(39:15):
closet and we never use it.
So I think that's the challengeI have from that perspective,
rich.
So unfortunately, I don't thinkwe've gotten to where I
believed we were headed.
I think we still can.
I still get encouraged becauseI still see I gave an example
recently.
I was in Norway and I wasflying out of the airport and I
was pleasantly surprised thatwhen I was walking through the

(39:37):
Oslo airport there was a pop-upstore selling secondhand not
luxury, yes, but stillsecondhand products and I was
like that's pretty cool.
And then there was a lot ofpeople in there looking like
they were at least browsing, ifnot buying no-transcript for 10

(40:19):
euros.
What does that mean forsustainability?
Am I going to wear them once ortwice and then forget them and
then they end up in my closet orin the landfill?
That's not good either.

Gautham (40:28):
Let me just make a quick remark as a person who
studies sustainability for awhile.
Every effort to save the planetand the people is worth it.
Right On the flip side, whenyou said mindset, I was hoping
you would go to the directionthat, irrespective of what we do
, we need to change thisconsumption over consumption
orientation, right.

(40:48):
I personally feel, and I'mchange this consumption over
consumption orientation, right.
I personally feel and I'mworking on some of these things,
we'll see if these ever see thelight of day is that often when
you engage in these secondhandproducts or so, it's also giving
you a license to purchase andthere is a possibility that we
might be actually making havingsome unintended consequences.
Again, I'm speculating, I'mworking on some stuff to try and

(41:08):
establish that causality.
But there has to be a lot ofchanges in mindset, particularly
and it's not just mindset, it'salso financial mindset, where
it's all.

Guy (41:20):
Gautam, I can't agree with you more.
It's interesting because thesecondary market now I will say
maybe to your point what you'refinding is I found it's
interesting that most of thesecondary market stuff I see
that seems successful is usuallyfor higher end goods, right?
So things that aren'ttechnically seen as disposable
and things that are seen aspotentially having more value if

(41:42):
they are weathered.
Right, like, hey, I get a pairof red tab Levi's, those are
amazing.
Like I'll get those, but I'mnot going to buy a pair of Gap
jeans because I can just get ridof them.
So I do agree, I think themindset has to change.
I just don't know how we changethat, and I don't mean to stand
on a soapbox, but part of it iswe're fighting against this

(42:03):
behemoth of an Amazon that givesus the perception or the
mindset that I can orderwhatever I want.
They'll get to me in two hours,two days, and you know what, if
I don't need it, I just put itin my closet, or if I get, or
and I'll, I'll freely admit Ifall victim to that, like I will
.
The other day I ordered a soiltester because we were talking

(42:26):
about our soil in Vermont.
We had to test it.
So I went to Amazon and boughta soil tester.
Now I'll use it.
But I'm like, do I really needthis?
It's only five bucks andthey'll ship it to me because
I'm Amazon Prime, so it's free.
But there's that notion ofconsumerization that is hard to
break.
I do think at times when I lookat my son and children younger
than him, that generation I'msensing a little bit of a shift

(42:48):
from that perspective.
Is it sustainable?
No pun intended, I don't know,but it's a good, it's a good way
of, because you know there's, Imean, now, does he like buying
stuff and especially having hisdad buy stuff?
Absolutely, but I don't thinkit's as pronounced, maybe, as my
generation, our generation.
You know what have you?
But yeah, I think, and I thinkthe challenge to Gotham is like

(43:11):
what happens when more and moreof the world gets elevated which
it should from a socioeconomiclevel.
Right, we look at China, right?
I mentioned my mom's Chineselike when she talks to me about
when she was in China, verydifferent than where it is today
.
I mean, I remember she sent,she showed me a picture of
Shanghai when she went back in1980 and the Bund and what it

(43:32):
looks like today.
It's shocking, right, shockingWell, guess what?
That's another couple ofmillion billion consumers right
there.
That just got turned on.

Rich (43:42):
So that's a tough balance and a real struggle in retail in
how we look at value and values.
I think the goal or the hope is, to your point, that consumers
and retailers, when we buy formore hedonistic reasons, more
for want or pleasure or emotion,that we do so not with a
disposable mentality but ratherpurchasing something with

(44:05):
long-term value, and I'm surethis is a conversation that we
are going to continue to have.
This is a good opportunity forus to shift to the advice part
of the program.
Of course, we've already gottensome great advice from Guy, but
, paula, why don't you take thefirst question?

Paula (44:20):
What do you think has been the best advice you've ever
received?
Words of wisdom from a mentor,advice you've seen, or a mantra
that you've had that has gottenyou through hard times.

Guy (44:30):
The one piece of advice, that at least the one thing that
I constantly try to work onmyself and I try to tell people
like I get questions fromstudents, grads, anybody is the
art of storytelling.
I think at the end of the day,regardless of what we do and
regardless of what industrywe're in or what profession or
where we are, no-transcript, thestory you tell a partner and I

(45:23):
think that's the important partis to be able to tell the story.
And I think a lot of times theone thing I've learned is too
often, especially in thebusiness world, we try to
communicate purely in numbersand unfortunately, we've all
become written or sort ofdominated by PowerPoint.
We got to put in a PowerPoint,it's got to be these slides.
And then you see slides whereI'm like dude, you're at font
seven, I can't read anything onyour slides and I'm always like

(45:45):
why are you here talking to me?
If I could just read yourslides, just email me your
slides and I never have to seeyou, I'll read through them.
So the challenge I always tellpeople is all right, what's the
story Like?
Why are you showing like youlet the slides or whatever props
you have support it, but tell astory.
Tell me a story.
Why am I listening to you?

(46:06):
Why are we here?
What's the point?
And I think that's an importantskill to have and it might be
seen as, yeah, communication,but I really think it's more
that story, because as humans, Ithink we still remember stories
.
We don't necessarily remembernumbers and facts and figures
and graphs and all that, butwe'll remember a story and I
think that's really important Atleast it has been for me in my
career is being able to tellthat story and relate to people.

(46:26):
Because what I always learn isyou've got opportunities to talk
and meet people.
Make sure they remember you bysomething, and usually that
something is a good story andusually that good story is
something they can relate to, asopposed to me going in there
and telling them how fantasticmy cloud-based software is and
the algorithm it creates can doblah, blah, blah and they're
like okay and their eyes roll inthe back of their heads.

(46:47):
But if I can tell them a storyabout how my kid was asking for
something and because I use thistechnology, I was able to find
it really quickly and somethingrather than made the kid happy,
hey, I get that.
So I think for me, paul, it'sthat storytelling ability and I
think that's just been, you know, my mentors that have been able
to give me pieces of that.

(47:07):
I can remember through mycareer, who you know showed me
how to tell those good storiesand how to the tricks of the
trade, so to speak, to make thestory that much more memorable,
more powerful, and basically howto communicate it.

Rich (47:22):
And in true retail fashion .
I think you just gave us a BOGO, because the next question we
were going to ask is for themost underrated skill, but I
think you just gave us bothmentoring advice and an
underrated skill.

Guy (47:35):
Yeah, underrated skill and, I think, one that's easy to
think about, hard to master.

Rich (47:43):
Well, I would absolutely agree with that.
So we are going to I'm going toturn it over to Paula to kick
off the fun part.
So this has been a lot of fun,but now we have a little bit of
fun at your expense.

Paula (47:56):
Oh, it's not that bad, rich is just.
He's just trying to psych youout.
Okay, so are you ready for therapid fire, guy?

Guy (48:05):
Let's rapid fire this.

Paula (48:06):
All right.
So each one of us will ask aquestion.
Your only job is to tell us thefirst answer that pops in your
head.
First one what is your go-tocomfort food?

Guy (48:16):
All right.
So I'm gonna ask a question toqualify that.
When you define comfort food,like, are we talking about what
kind of food?
Or one memorable meal, or whatare we talking about here?

Paula (48:27):
No, like the food that when you're feeling sick, you're
like I need to have thischicken soup, because it's the
only thing that makes me feelbetter right now.

Guy (48:36):
So, all right, I'll answer it this way the two comfort
foods I have and unfortunately Ican't get access to them
anymore were both mygrandmother's.
My Chinese grandmother made thegreatest dumplings and that was
always my comfort food when Igo visit her.
And then my French grandmotherused to make French fries and
duck fat and if you've ever hadFrench fries and duck fat,
there's nothing better and soshe would sit there and make me
steak frites with fries and duckfat, and when I was a kid, that

(48:59):
was like I could just eat thatand be happy the rest of my life
.

Rich (49:04):
So you can transport with all the traveling you've done.
You can transport yourselfanywhere in the world 24 hours,
instantaneously.
Get there, instantaneously,come back.
No airports, where do you go?

Guy (49:16):
Can I go back there again later?

Rich (49:18):
Yes, absolutely.

Guy (49:19):
I mean, I'm going to say Paris and I know that's an easy
answer.
I'm Parisian, it's my hometown,but if I can get there and come
back in 24 hours, right nowdone.

Gautham (49:28):
It's my turn too.
So let's move away from foodand location and let's ask about
people.
Who are the three people youwould invite for dinner if you
had access to anyone?

Guy (49:39):
all right.
So, um, first one would be mypaternal grandfather.
Um, he unfortunately passedaway when I was fairly young, so
I never really got a chance tospend time with him.
Um, uh, the next two are goingto be awful when I say these,
but I'm going to say them anyway.
So I I'm a political science bytrade, so I love political
science and history.
So one is going to be Napoleon,because I just think, yes,

(50:02):
militarily, I think what he didwas great.
Now, I might get thrown stuffat for saying that, but I also
think, in terms of running acountry, he did some really
interesting stuff and I wouldlove to talk to him.
And then, uh, my third one is,uh, my favorite political
philosopher is Machiavelli, andI'm going to preface this by
saying to 99 people 99% ofpeople who quote Machiavelli

(50:23):
have never read Machiavelli.
I'm that 1% has read the printsmultiple times, and others
works Cause I was a politicalscience major and I did go to
grad school for it, so I didspend a lot of time and I will

(50:50):
freely admit I'm the weirdperson sometimes I'm playing who
has a copy of the prints andI'm reading it, and people are
like they asked me.

Paula (50:53):
They'll ask me like, are you taking class?
I'm like no, I'm just readingit because I like it's a great
book.
And they're like, okay, dude,like we're going to school for
it.
But yeah, I'm not as passionateas you are, so I can admire
that passion very much so.

Guy (51:03):
Yeah, I caught myself the other day flipping through Adam
Smith's Wealth of Nations andreading, and my girlfriend's
like what are you doing?
I'm like I don't.
Oh, this is really interesting.
I forgot about this.

Rich (51:14):
I was somewhere between Advise and Consent, which stoked
my interest in politics at onepoint, and Brave New World,
which I hope we're not headingtowards, but that's one that
every once in a while I'll startflipping through and I'll get
the.
Are you studying that?
No, one of my favorite books.

Guy (51:31):
Yeah, I read that and yeah, we won't have to get into that.
But what did I read the otherday too?
I was reading another dystopiantype book and I was like this
is way too close to what couldhappen and it's not.
It's interesting to read, but Idon't want to live it.

Paula (51:45):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, guy, on behalf of theteam, thank you so much for
being with us, thank you foryour time and, most of all,
thank you for sharing yourunique perspective and advice.
We're very grateful for you.

Guy (51:56):
No, I am incredibly grateful you guys invited me to
this.
Always love chatting, so thankyou so much.
Really appreciate you guysinviting me, and you guys in
order to find me, and Gautam,anytime you want to chat about
some of your research, I'malways happy to talk about it,
because it sounds like you'rereaching a lot of stuff that I
look at all the time too.

Gautham (52:13):
I'll reach out soon.
Then you said it Awesome.

Rich (52:17):
Perfect.
So I know Gautam had to stepaway to do some grading and I'm
going to have to a little bitlater.
But, paula, I will ask you whatyou, what you thought of that
and maybe talk a little bitabout some of the lessons
learned from from Guy.

Paula (52:34):
You know he's really informative and it's an aspect
of retail that we don't hearabout often, which is the back
end, right the logistics.
We as consumers always see theend product, but we don't see
the the entire ecosystem that isworking behind the end product
just to get us that product infront of us.

Rich (52:54):
Well, I love the timeliness of the conversation
because it's one where thereason that we decided to go
down this exploration is thereis going to be this shift in
consumerism and there's going tobe a shift in what jobs are
available and what jobs aren't.
And we've talked about howretail is seen by some as a

(53:15):
professional career and othersit's not really a consideration
when they're going through highschool or college or for a few
years in the military.
Our goal has been to try andshow that 360 degree view.
Interesting is that those whodo see it as a career tend to

(53:39):
look at fashion design orfashion buying, and yet in the
grander scale, that's actually avery small part of it.
And so being able to talk aboutplanning and analytics and HR
and, in Guy's case, talkingabout the underneath of the
iceberg and I like that analogyof the things that you don't
necessarily see but that arecritical.
We had to depend on the supplychain during the pandemic and,

(54:02):
much like frontline workers,people really appreciated the
impact that a supply chain canhave.
It's well-rounded and it's funto hear somebody talk about a
subject like that with the kindof passion and curiosity that he
has.

Paula (54:21):
Yeah, so I'm sure this conversation was most
interesting to you too.

Rich (54:25):
Well, yeah, and I do think and you and I have talked about
it quite a bit about the roleof technology, and this was
interesting because of Guy'sperspective of technology is not
going to solve your problems,but neither is avoiding the
technology altogether, and sothere is that middle ground that
is critical, and I do.
I think I would ask you, fromthe perspective of what you

(54:50):
think about buildingrelationships and being able to
lean on them.

Paula (54:55):
The World Economic Forum put out a study of the skills
that the next workforce, thenext generation so not even like
Gen Z that's already in theworkforce, like we're talking
about, like our kids, right, andfor some people, grandkids,
that generation the skills thatthey will need in the workforce
and I think like seven out of 10of them were soft skills.

(55:16):
So that tells us, that's anindicator, that tells us that
relationship aspect and work isgoing to be even more
instrumental in helping you getahead in your professional
career and just being a goodhuman.

Rich (55:30):
And being a good human is a great place.