November 5, 2025 • 48 mins
Strategy gets headlines; execution wins seasons.
From West Point to the helm of PetSmart, Ken Hicks has built a leadership legacy defined by discipline, empathy, and execution. Before leading billion-dollar turnarounds at Foot Locker and Academy Sports + Outdoors, his first retail job was far simpler — filling bags of dirt at a local nursery, where he learned the patience and precision that still shape his leadership philosophy today.
In this episode of Retail Relates, Rich Honiball and Tony Wells (a fellow service-academy graduate) sit down with Ken to explore what it means to lead with purpose and humility. They discuss how lessons from military service translate into modern leadership, why recognition is a strategy, and how culture is built one consistent act at a time.
Ken’s journey reminds us that leadership isn’t about control — it’s about clarity, care, and creating conditions for others to succeed. A conversation on service, strategy, and the human side of execution.
🎧 Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, GoodPods and your favorite platforms.
Ken Hicks Bio:
Ken Hicks is a seasoned retail leader with nearly 40 years of experience driving growth, profitability, and purpose across some of the world’s most recognized brands. He joined PetSmart in 2024 as President and CEO, bringing deep expertise in retail strategy, merchandising, operations, and customer experience.
Before joining PetSmart, Ken served as CEO and Executive Chairman at Academy Sports + Outdoors, where he guided the company through a successful IPO and organizational transformation. Prior to that, he was CEO of Foot Locker, leading a major turnaround that revitalized customer experience, improved profitability, and significantly grew market value. Earlier in his career, he held senior leadership roles with JCPenney, Payless ShoeSource, Home Shopping Network, May Department Stores, and McKinsey & Company.
Ken is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and a U.S. Army veteran. He also holds an MBA with highest distinction from Harvard Business School. He serves on the Boards of PetSmart and Academy Sports + Outdoors. Ken and his wife Lucy, married for over 50 years, share a Boston Terrier named Skywalker—and a belief that great leadership is measured not by authority, but by the success of those you lead.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rich H. (00:46):
Strategy gets headlines, execution wins
seasons, and Ken Hicks has builta career on both.
Before he led turnarounds, helearned formations and then
brought that precision toretail.
A West Point graduate and U.S.
Army veteran, Ken carriedforward discipline, teamwork,
and a mission-first mindset.
And his first retail job?
A nursery, filling bags of dirtwhere he learned patience and
(01:09):
the value of sweating smalldetails.
I'm Rich Honeyball, and I'mjoined today by Tony Wells, a
Service Academy graduatehimself, Marine Infantry
officer, C-suite leader, andco-host for today's episode.
We sit down with Ken Hicks,president and CEO of PetSmart,
where he's leading the company'snext chapter by doubling down
on people, pets, and executionacross a complex national
(01:31):
footprint.
Prior to joining PetSmart in2024, Ken led Academy Sports and
Outdoors through a successfulIPO as CEO and executive
chairman, and earlierrevitalized Foot Locker by
focusing on the fundamentals,the customer experience,
operational excellence, and teamempowerment.
Earlier roles at JCPenney,Payless, Home Shopping Network,
(01:53):
May Department Stores, andMcKenzie sharpened his strategy
to execution muscle.
He also earned his MBA withhighest distinction from Harvard
Business School.
He and his wife Lucy marriedfor over 50 years, share a
Boston terrier named Skywalker.
In this episode, Ken shareslessons from service and
commerce, leading with purpose,using a recognition as strategy,
(02:16):
and building cultures that winon consistency.
And woven through his story isthe reason he leads the way that
he does.
A belief shaped over a lifetimethat great leadership isn't
measured by authority, butrather by the success of the
people that you lead.
Welcome back to our latestepisode of Retail Relates.
I am joined today by UnitedStates Naval Academy graduate
(02:41):
Tony Wells.
And I say that because ourguest today is West Point
graduate Ken Hicks.
And so at some point towardsthe end, we'll probably have
that Army Navy banter where weuh we joke and I will stand on
the sidelines and appreciate thefact that at the end of any
game where Army and Navy play,it's one team, one mission.
(03:04):
But it's a pleasure to welcomeKen Hicks to Retail Relates
today.
Ken H. (03:09):
Thank you very much, Rich.
It's great to be here.
Rich H. (03:11):
In addition to being a West Point graduate, you are
also the CEO of PetSmart.
And we've just finished readingyour bio.
It is impressive.
And I have the dubious honor ofhaving worked for an
organization that you led.
And so it's it's a double honorto have you on today.
(03:31):
So appreciate you joining us.
Ken H. (03:33):
Thanks for inviting me.
I appreciate it.
Rich H. (03:35):
So since we've read your bio and we will have an
extended bio in the show notes,one of the things that we try to
do is narrow down the sum ofyou to those three pivot points
that throughout your career,personal life, however you
choose to go on the journey,have brought you to where you
(03:56):
are today.
Ken H. (03:57):
I would say the first was West Point.
It was, you know, a challengingenvironment, and you learned
what you were made of.
You learned uh the importanceof team, and you you learned how
to lead well at the same time,you're getting a good education.
And it really was influentialin in my life and my thinking.
(04:19):
You know, still stay in touchwith many of the people I went
to school with and many of thelessons I learned while at West
Point.
The second would be when I wentto McKinsey.
I tell people when I went toHarvard Business School, the
thing I could do best in theworld was shoot cannons.
When I got out of HarvardBusiness School, the thing I
could do best in the world wasshoot cannons.
(04:39):
Uh I learned a lot of stuff,but I didn't know how the
business world worked andoperated.
McKinsey taught me how toapproach a problem and think and
how to plan, analyze, and plan,and then execute those.
Execution is what uh theworld's all about, is getting it
done.
(04:59):
And then finally, I would sayat the May Company, I had the
privilege of working for a truelegend, Dave Farrell.
In fact, Sam Walton said DaveFarrell was the best merchant in
the country.
So that that's pretty highpraise.
He really taught me retail andhow retail worked and ways to
(05:19):
approach retail, but he alsotaught me how to really
understand the customer.
And that's what's one of themost critical things in any
business environment is reallyknowing the customer and being
able to serve them and and givethem what they want.
Rich H. (05:37):
So normally I ask the question, is this the path that
you imagined?
I'm gonna alter that question alittle bit because obviously if
you went to West Point, I doubtthat you went to West Point to
one day wind up as a C-suiteleader in retail.
So instead, I'm gonna ask, whatdrove you to West Point?
What drove you to joining theArmy?
Ken H. (05:58):
It wasn't the family.
I my father was like all mostof his generation.
He was uh in World War II, hewas made uh corporal by an act
of Congress.
He was a POW and all POWs wereraised one rank.
And so he was a PSC during thewar and uh PSC and a POW.
But really, I went to WestPoint the same reason that
(06:19):
Dwight Eisenhower went to WestPoint.
It was the best education Icould afford.
Uh it it was they were gonnapay me to go to school.
It was a scholarship and uhgonna let me play football.
So a great place.
It was either that or go to uhSouthwest Texas and become a
dentist.
And I thought being an armyofficer would be more fun.
Tony W. (06:40):
That was probably a you know a good choice to go to
West Point.
Ken H. (06:44):
But much better than Annapolis.
Uh oh, soon we start we startedso early.
Well, no, I couldn't get in.
I they my eyes were too bad.
I you know that uh cat uhAnnapolis is a much uh much
tougher school to get into.
Tony W. (06:59):
Okay, that's for the record.
We got that on the record thata West Point grad said that.
Ken H. (07:03):
Well, because they I went in during during Vietnam.
It was a lot easier.
I couldn't get in now.
A lot more people wanted to goto Annapolis than to West Point.
And uh they're both goodschools, just one's better than
the other.
Tony W. (07:17):
You know, I I think it's maybe you can jump in here,
Ken, on this one.
Just I've always found beingtrained as someone in the
military that kind of engagingwith customers and interacting
with them and figuring out thecompetitive landscape to me
often had a lot of militaryparallels as an infantry
officer.
You know, find the enemy, youknow, or the find the customer,
(07:38):
engage, and then figure out howto answer competitive threats
and community.
Like there's a lot ofsimilarities, I've at least I
found.
I don't know if you find thatto be true.
Ken H. (07:48):
Definitely.
In fact, yesterday we werehaving a meeting about a
marketing campaign that we werelooking at, and we said, you
know, this is war.
We we're fighting thecompetition and we want to win.
And we've got to be pretty boldin what we do.
I actually wasn't the one whofirst said used the war analogy.
Some one of my other people whowas not a military background
(08:11):
said that.
And I said, Yeah, and you youlearn how to plan, how to
execute.
The other thing that you reallylearn how to do is lead people.
And you know as well as I dothat you start off with by
being, and at West Point andAnnapolis, we call them the same
thing, a plebe.
You are a server, you learn howto take orders, you learn how
(08:34):
to do things before you learnhow to give orders.
And you understand.
One of the analogies I use iswhen you ask somebody, you're
out there on a mission, and youask somebody, go down to that
intersection and make sure it'sclear.
And the person says, if I godown there, I'm putting my life
at risk.
If I stay here and disobey theorder, you'll send me back home.
(08:56):
They do it because they believethere are three things I tell
people that they really look forin a leader.
They're competent and they madeyou competent, that they're
confident in you and what you'retelling them to do, and you
made them confident.
And three, that you care.
You wouldn't do this unless itwas important.
You care about them.
(09:17):
And people understand that ifif that's what a leader does,
they are willing to do it foryou.
And there's there's an oldexpression, you go to war for
queen and country, but you diefor the bloke to your left and
the bloke to your right.
And you do that because youhave confidence and in their
competence and and you know theycare.
(09:37):
And that's so important.
And it's not just in themilitary, it's out in the in the
field.
I spend a lot of time in storestalking to store associates and
hourlies, and they know thatyou care.
I go down in the lunchroom, Ihave lunch with with the people
every day, and I sit at sit attable, and they know, okay, that
he listens to us.
(09:57):
May not always agree with us,but listens and wants to do what
is right for the company andright for us.
Rich H. (10:05):
And I will attest, having been in a uh meeting room
with Ken on more than oneoccasion, that there were either
military or war analogies orsports.
And and they were meaningful.
When you talk, I and I'm gonnago into the lesson part, Ken,
but and I want to make sure thatmy memory isn't failing me.
It's interesting because youwent to West Point, you served
(10:27):
in the army, you'll say this iswar, but then you're you're in
the lunchroom having lunch withthose that you're serving with,
and there's that humility.
And I seem to remember pecanpies making their way through to
those that did a great job.
Can we talk about that for asecond before I jump into the
(10:48):
lesson?
Ken H. (10:49):
I I still do that, by the way.
Uh, I've given away thousandsof pecan pies and letters,
handwritten notes to people whenthey do a good job.
We just had up a town hall, andthe woman who set it up got an
excellent speaker, and I justsent her a note.
But recognizing people, youknow, and again, go back to a
(11:10):
military analogy.
In in the civilian world, youknow, business world, people do
things, well, they get a biggerbonus.
Well, they get stock options.
Well, I get in the military,they get a ribbon and they they
will put their life at risk fora ribbon.
And they do it because it'sreally that personal
recognition.
And the butt the comp pie, ifyou remember, comes in a wooden
(11:32):
box, and they didn't really careabout the pie.
It's really actually was areally good pie.
But what they cared about wasthe box because they would put
it up on their desk as theribbon that I did good.
I had the best sales for thequarter, or I that project
really went well.
And when you call the wholeteam in and you congratulate
(11:54):
them, and I tell them, I said,success has a sweet taste.
This pie is to remind you ofthat sweet taste so that you
want to have success again.
Rich H. (12:03):
I love that story.
And I remember the boxes and Iremember the consistency, and
it's actually kind ofheartwarming to know that that's
still something that has passedalong.
So you were in the army, youwent to McKinsey.
What was the first retailposition you had?
Ken H. (12:19):
When I left McKinsey, I tell people, I said, there's
four basic places you can beassociated with the football
team.
You can be a player on thefield, those are the people that
make things happen.
You can be one of the headcoaches on the sidelines,
they're the ones who set thegame plan, make sure the right
resources are out there, givethe direction, or a coach in the
(12:40):
press box who calls down to thecoach on the sideline who tells
the person on the field what toexecute.
The consultants are up in thepress box, you know, and nobody
ever said fire the coach in thepress box.
It was the people on the field.
And the thing that I knew afterbeing in the military that the
con that I wanted to be on thefield.
(13:00):
And the other thing I knew isthat I still, having consulted,
didn't really know a lot aboutbusiness.
And so I went to a companycalled May Department Stores
Company, which at the time was avery big uh successful company,
had 26 years of consecutivequarterly profit increases.
They had a history of takingthe position of senior vice
(13:23):
president of planning, usingthat as a training position to
get you out into a realmerchandise role.
And so I was the head ofplanning, which my McKenzie
background helped me with.
But I I tell people I basicallycarried the clipboard and made
sure the Dave Farrell, the headcoach, didn't trip over the his
(13:46):
headphone head headphone wires.
Um that was before radioheadphones.
I spent back then we workedfive and a half days a week.
I spent 12 hours a day, fiveand a half days a week, watching
him, going visiting stores,being in strategy meetings,
being in operating reviewmeetings, and learning about
retail.
And that was probably as closeto a PhD in retail as you could
(14:11):
get.
Tony W. (14:12):
Ken, when you think about you've led a lot of bugs,
something that you think peoplethink about you or the area of
retail that is completely wrong.
Ken H. (14:23):
They think I know a lot.
I do know some things becauseI'm I'm old, I've been around a
long time.
What I learn, I learn everyday.
And so people think, well,geez, you know how this works.
No, but I'm willing to trydifferent things and I'm
listening to people.
And uh one of the funny storieswas I had uh my head of
marketing at Penny's, MikeBoyleson, when I left after nine
(14:44):
years, he said, Ken, I'veworked for you for nine years.
I don't think you ever told meto do anything.
You said I knew what you wantedme to do, but you never said do
it.
The reason why I told him Isaid no, because if I tell you
to do it, I own it.
If you figure it out and do iton your own, you own it and
you're gonna accomplish it.
So people think that I I know alot.
I'm just trying to get peopleto think and do what they know
(15:07):
is right.
Tony W. (15:08):
Nine years and and and you gave them no explicit
orders.
That's that's interestingcoming from a West Wynagrat.
Ken H. (15:13):
I I may have and he forgot it, but yeah.
But I didn't do I didn't do ita lot.
If you ask the people now, it'sthe same way.
I leave it up to them to makedecisions.
And what I tell people, I won'tlet them fall over the cliff.
I'll grab them by the belt ifthey grab me by the belt before
I walk off the cliff too.
Tony W. (15:30):
You know, speaking of retail, how do you think it's
changing now?
I mean, there's we can talkabout lots of retail, but what
what do you see as the biggestkind of evolutionary element to
retail right now?
Ken H. (15:44):
Well, I I think there are a couple of things.
One, it's become much morecompetitive.
And the irony is there's lessretailers, but more competitive
because they're they're betterand bigger.
The second is the customer ismuch, much more informed.
They were very, very dependenton the retailer to tell them.
(16:05):
And now the retailers, in manycases, not the one who tells
them.
They either get it online orthey get it from some influencer
or what they saw on the screen.
And so probably I would say oneof the biggest changes is the
edification of the customer andwhat they know coming in, as
opposed to years ago when theywere completely dependent on a
(16:28):
sales associate to say, here'swhat's best and here's what you
should do.
Tony W. (16:32):
Can you share a recent strategy or idea that exceeded
your expectations?
Either you thought, oh man,that I'm not sure this is gonna
work.
Ken H. (16:40):
Maybe you let your team move forward with it or Yeah,
this this one i isn't quite asas recent, but it was one that
was a big strategy and turnedout to be a big winner.
Was when I was at Footlockerand took over, we were trying to
figure out how to, you know,how do we grow?
Uh we had had several uh yearsof of negative sales comps and
said, you know, what we need todo is we're a bigger opportunity
(17:03):
because we we had saturated theUnited States with Footlocker
and and champs and ladyfootlocker and kid footlocker
stores, where we had anopportunity was in Europe.
We had 400 stores in Europe andwe were not doing well in
Europe.
And the reason we weren't doingwell in Europe is we were
looking at Europe like theUnited States.
All of Europe was homogeneous.
That was not the case.
(17:24):
In Italy, they wore sneakersfor fashion.
In Germany, they wore them towork out in.
And they also you probably havenever even seen a brown
sneaker, but they wore brownsneakers.
England, they wore them foreveryday shoes.
In France, they wanted thelatest American shoe.
And so what we did is we weregoing to double our store count
(17:44):
and we were gonna market bycountry.
That became one of our biggestgrowth vehicles was in Europe.
As we expanded the number ofstores, we we made an
acquisition of uh a runningstore in Germany.
And uh really, it was notintended to be the big growth
vehicle, but it turned out to bethe big growth vehicle.
(18:05):
And that was really exciting todo.
One of the things about retail,that that was a home run.
The other thing, and the reasonmore recent looking at things
was retail's a whole bunch ofsingles.
You do little things, and sothey they exceed your
expectations.
One of the things, uh, forexample, at Academy was we were
(18:27):
very good in wood bats, but wedidn't have a lot of high-end
bats.
And we went to Mariuchi and weput in the high-end Mariuchi
aluminum bats, and we're saying,boy, you know, our highest
price bat we have is like $150.
These Mariucchi started $300and they flew out the door.
That was one that told us wehave a customer who also wants
(18:51):
best, as well as the customerwho wants good and better.
Tony W. (18:55):
One more, then I'm gonna throw it back over to
Rich, which is when you look atthe landscape right now, what
are you most excited about ormore cautious about?
Either you think you're eitherone you want up about the retail
space right now.
Anything got you super excitedor super worried right now?
Ken H. (19:13):
Well, the the cautious is the customer.
Right now, the customer ischallenged.
And that's that's a nice wordfor saying they're under a lot
of pressure, financial pressure,a lot of things going on in
their life.
And we're trying to to wintheir confidence to buy products
from at Petsmart.
We're trying to make sure thatthey they have pets and pets
(19:35):
continue to grow.
And some people say, I can'tafford that pet.
And how do we take care ofthem?
The thing that has me superexcited is that there are new
ideas and things coming out allthe time that really show the
customer is still there.
A couple of examples.
One is the fastest growing partof pet food is fresh froze.
(19:56):
People are spending $10, $12,$14 a meal for their pets.
That's a McDonald's meal, butthey're doing that every day for
their pets, and people arewilling to do that.
So I my belief and in mycurrent role is people still
really care about their pets.
Another new idea that's a crazyidea is a thing called the
kitty litter robot.
(20:17):
It's a big shell that cleansitself $700.
You know, we sell a $29.99 pinthat you can put litter in, or
you can buy this $700self-cleaning one.
We're selling that $700self-cleaning one very well.
There's a customer out therethat's not just looking how do I
get the cheapest.
(20:38):
They're looking for how do Iget what makes my life easy.
Thanks for sharing that.
Rich H. (20:43):
So the only thing I've really, and you'll claim there's
more, but the only thing I'veseen you be unsuccessful at is
retiring.
Ken H. (20:49):
My wife has has I I've failed it twice.
I'm not sure she'll let me failit a third time, so I have to
stay here for quite a while.
So we we have lessons, and oneof the lessons, best lessons
when when uh when I was screwingup, was when I took over my my
artillery battery when I was ayoung captain.
Artillery battery has about 140troops in it, and it has six
(21:12):
cannons.
I was very proud of the factthat I was the best cannoneer.
I could do better than all ofmy troops, although my job was
not to shoot the cannon, and Icould only fire one at a time.
And I had a first sergeant,first sergeant Hall.
He was probably, not probably,he was 20 years plus years older
than been to Vietnam threetimes, had a bronze star medal,
and I was his boss.
In the Army, you call the firstsergeant the top sergeant
(21:34):
because they're the top sergeantof the of the unit.
And the first couple of monthsdid not go well.
We were screwing up right andleft, and we were missing things
and and not doing things well.
One evening he sat me down, uh,or he I he sat down in my
office across from me.
He said, Sir, you're notenjoying yourself, are you?
And I said, No, top, it's thisthis is tougher than I thought
(21:57):
it was gonna be.
And he said, Tell you what,sir, you give us the direction
and and tell us what you want usto accomplish and give us the
rope.
And myself, the exo, theexecutive officer, the other
sergeants, and I, we will get itdone for you.
Give us the direction, let usdo it.
You don't have to do it.
(22:17):
I still to this day rememberthat lesson where somebody who
worked for me sat me down andcounseled me, but also gave me
some of the best advice I'd everhad about you can't do it all
as you move up the chain.
And that was one of the thingsabout being the best gunner.
I can only fire one gun at atime.
So the battery's only 17%effective.
(22:38):
My job was to make the sixgunners I had better than me.
And then the battery's 100%effective because my job was not
to shoot a cannon, it was toget people to learn and know how
to do that well.
And so that was one of thethings that the first sergeant
taught me and that I learned ismy job is not to do anything.
(22:59):
I don't show up.
I'm sitting here talking,there's talking to you.
Companies out there running,and it's doing fine.
People every day.
Nobody notices that I'm notthere.
Our store manager's not there,they notice that.
The per the buyer isn't placingan order, they notice that.
My job is to make sure that wehave the the best people with
the right direction and theyhave the right resources, and
(23:22):
they do it.
And then stand back and letthem go, not get in the way and
screw it up.
Rich H. (23:26):
I love that analogy.
And I think some of the bestbosses that I've worked for have
a similar mentality.
When you do get pulled backinto an organization or you have
invested in anotheropportunity, what is it that you
look for that draws you in andthat says this has the potential
for success?
Ken H. (23:48):
People say, Oh, you've had success at, you know, we
when I was at Pennies, we did wewere doing well.
You remember, and we were theturnaround of the decade.
And then Footlocker Academy,and and then the reason I came
here, I look and say, is it agood business?
Does it have a good customerbase?
Does the customer like it?
(24:09):
Is it growing?
Is it one that will be around?
And are they operating poorly?
Because the first part of thatI can't do anything about, but I
can work on the on theexecution part, and that's what
I focus on.
If all the other things aregood in the market, I fortunate
enough I went when sneakersstarted, you were really flying.
(24:30):
I'm a footlocker.
You know, I was at Academy whenCOVID and after COVID, when
everybody all of a sudden wantedto do sports and they were
looking for something toentertain.
And then here, the pet growth.
That's a good solid industry.
But if you aren't executingwell, you won't do well.
But that you can fix.
Tony W. (24:50):
I I had an old boss that said, then retail is
details.
Yeah.
It's all about everything aboutit's the small things that
matter.
And and you build on those, andthen you get to, you know, get
to good operation or goodexecution.
Ken H. (25:05):
So it is.
And that's when when you sitdown and you look and you
develop your strategy, you youlearn and you don't, you know,
you're not looking for the nextshiny nickel.
You're looking for how toexecute.
And, you know, it's blocking.
You know, I never did fullyunderstand the three yards in
the cloud of dust, but it's fouryards in a cloud of dust.
But you make it clear to thepeople and you give them that.
(25:26):
And one of the things I'vedone, and this I learned from
again from when I was in thearmy.
When in the army, we carriedthe code of conduct and our
daily battle mission in ourpocket every day, and you knew
what it was.
You didn't have to refer to itevery day.
When I got to to Penny's, I Iwrote that up actually at May
Company.
I wrote it up for May Companyfor Dave Farrell, and then at
(25:49):
Penny's and did it atFootlocker, did it at Academy.
We've got everybody, we telleverybody, here is open it up,
here's our vision, here's ourmission, here's our values.
This is the strategy that wehave.
Because we're a privatecompany, they didn't want me to
put, well, you put the goalshere, but at the other public
companies, I put the goalsbecause they were public.
(26:10):
And everybody in the companyknows what that is.
And I carry it around andperiodically both.
Now, does that fit our vision?
Does that meet our fit?
Or does that fit our values?
But people know what it is thatwe're working for.
And it there's no question.
Our vision is to be the bestpet retailer in the country.
How we're going to do that isbring the joy of pets to
(26:33):
everybody.
And so we think about is thatdoes that fit our vision to be
the best?
And so our values are customerfirst, our values are excellence
in execution.
And those are things that thatare important.
Team Pet Smart.
Tony W. (26:47):
Awesome.
Just on those retail detailsthings, it's very weird.
I find myself when I go into astore and the visual
merchandising or the stock, likeI go in and there's no product
on the shelves, or it's notpulled to the front, or I find
myself not enjoying the shoppingexperience because I'm just
like, there's so much wronghere.
Ken H. (27:08):
What's where's the store manager?
That's the other thing aboutretail, because it is the
detail, but it's a peoplebusiness.
You go in, you because you talkabout that, you go into one
store.
I was out in a city and theyhad two stores seven miles
apart.
And I go in one store and therewere all sorts of issues.
I go seven miles further andthey had executed to the nines.
(27:32):
And it was because the manager,now, our job is to have that
district manager take thelearnings from one to the other
and not accept why do I have twostores that are seven miles
apart that are executing sodifferently?
That's a leader who's not doingtheir job, that district
leader, and they've got to makesure that those store managers
(27:54):
do their job.
Rich H. (27:55):
So when you look at investing in people, whether
it's a seasoned leader thatyou're bringing on board or an
entry-level person, what are themain characteristics that
you're looking for?
What is that piece that youwant to make sure they have
coming in?
And you and the organizationcan help build the rest.
Ken H. (28:15):
First of all, they they've got to care.
One of that's one of the otherthings about the business I'm in
now.
Our people are all passionateabout pets.
So they they care.
The other is to takeresponsibility as a leader, not
point at somebody else or say,well, you know, this happened or
that happened, you know, bigline now that everybody talking
(28:37):
about.
Well, you know, it's thosetariffs, you know, that those
tariffs that's that's theproblem.
They hit us all the same.
Why are some doing better andsome not doing better?
So you can't use that as anexcuse.
So you have to takeresponsibility and and be
accountable.
And and the other is theability to develop people and
care about people.
And if you care about thepeople and you work to develop
(28:59):
them and have a good team, theywill execute well.
They will follow the details,they will use their initiative
to get things done.
And if you don't do that, ifthey if you don't care, if you
don't not responsible for whatyou do and you're not willing to
develop a team, you won't besuccessful.
Tony W. (29:18):
It was like time's up and kind of being a servant
leader.
Ken H. (29:22):
It it really is.
There are probably somebusinesses where you can sit up
on high and tell people, but inretail, you've got to be out
there.
People have to know that youcare about them and that you're
willing to do the things thatthey have to do.
And one of the things, and youknow this, Tony, that you learn
is you would never ask somebodyto do something that you
(29:43):
wouldn't be willing to do.
Tony W. (29:45):
Exactly.
Ken H. (29:46):
And if you're not willing to do it, then don't ask
them.
And the people know they are,it doesn't matter at what level,
they can sort out who doesn'tcare and who does care really
quickly.
And one of the things when youmake a move on a person who you
didn't think was performingwell, usually what happens, the
people go, What took you solong?
We knew it.
Rich H. (30:07):
So if you're talking to somebody who is not aware of
retailer experience in retailand they have misconceptions,
what what do you tell somebodyabout the retail industry that
doesn't have the insight and theinside that you do that might
get them to get a little bitmore excited about the industry?
Ken H. (30:25):
It's one of the most fun businesses that can be out
there because you're makingpeople happy.
Very few people walk out of astore upset.
No, they're happy.
You know, particularly thebusinesses I'm in.
I only do fun stuff, like Isaid, you know, sneakers,
sporting goods, guitars, and uhpets.
They walk out happy.
And if we don't serve themproperly, And they can't find
(30:47):
it, or we we couldn't helpexplain the product to them,
then they leave unhappy.
So one of the great thingsabout retail is you make people
happy.
You know, you fill their day.
Another thing is, unlike a lotof other businesses, when I was
consulting, I did uh electricutilities.
They make one decision every 10years, and it's got to be
(31:07):
exactly right, whether theybuild a power plant or not.
I did oil and gas.
They make a decision aboutevery three to five years
whether or not to drill a field.
And that's gotta be prettyclose to perfect.
Insurance, decision every yearwhere they come out with a new
product.
And they got to be pretty closeto right.
You know, even package goods,they make a decision every 90
days.
You know, do I put a new uhseasoning on the chips or make a
(31:31):
different size bag or whatever?
In retail, you make decisionsevery second.
And the good news, we're theonly profession other than the
NBA where if you're right abouthalf the time, you go to the
Hall of Fame.
But you can make a mistake aslong as you learn from it.
Lord knows I made a lot ofmistakes.
But if you learn from it, don'trepeat it, you get a chance to
(31:51):
try.
And the next day, people say,well, it's like a marathon.
They said, No, a marathon hasan end.
Every day you get a new chanceto to excel.
Every day.
And that that's fun.
It's not like, boy, we builtthat power plant in the wrong
place and and it's a disaster.
No, we get it.
Tomorrow, my definition of amerchant is a constant critic
(32:12):
and internal optimist.
Boy, if I would have done thistoday, it would have been
better.
But wait till tomorrow.
Tomorrow is going to be great.
That's the fun thing aboutretail is you're making people
happy and you always get toimprove.
You you can you never get tothe point where it's perfect.
You can always make it better.
Rich H. (32:31):
So you talk about the categories after JC Penny.
You've got guitars, you've gotsporting goods, you've got
sneakers, you've got pets.
Let's talk wine.
Oh, yeah.
That's a nice subject.
So, what drove you to say, I'mgonna own a vineyard?
Ken H. (32:46):
Well, it was my wife.
I moved her 16 times.
And when I retired the firsttime, I was thinking I'd find
something else.
I didn't.
So I told her, you know, youpick this time.
I will let you.
I picked the first 16, you pickthis one.
Uh and most people look for aplace and find a house.
She found a house in in theNapa Valley, and it came with a
(33:07):
vineyard.
You know, she said, Do youreally want to move out?
I said, I told you, whereveryou want to go, I'm going.
And so we moved out there, andfour months later, the
opportunity came up at Academy.
And so I left her out there,and she's now master of the
vineyard, and she loves it.
She said, I, you know, I Inever knew how much fun this
(33:27):
could be.
And they just harvest harvestedour grapes last week, and um,
we had a bumper crop, so we'reexcited.
Rich H. (33:35):
Any pictures of you, Lucy Styles, stomping on the
grapes?
Ken H. (33:38):
We no, we don't do that.
We're we're just the the wejust have the vineyard.
Although I do have a picture ofher holding up, and she has one
of me holding up our our abucket of the grapes that were
just picked uh last week.
Rich H. (33:49):
So we're gonna move into some of the advice for
those emerging professionals andthose that are are students and
thinking about retail.
Before that, though, I will cuethis up.
Is there a question that youwould want to ask those who are
studying right now or who areemerging leaders?
What would you want to ask themand get feedback on?
Ken H. (34:12):
I guess what I'd like to know is what would they, what
would you like to be rememberedfor?
You know, think about that asyou think about what you what
you plan to do and what you wantto do.
Because everybody, you know,what school do I get into?
What's my first job?
What do I, what do I do?
They're worried about that, butyou can change.
You know, Tony and I are goodexamples to your point.
(34:34):
At one point in my life, I wasshooting cannon.
And then at another point inlife, I have responsibility for
women's lingerie.
You know, that who would havethought that?
You can change.
You can find something that youreally enjoy and change.
And people are so worried thatthey I have to do this.
The other thing is you don'tknow how young you are.
I've got to be this by thisdate, or this by this date, or
(34:57):
this by I've been president ofwhat, six companies, CEO of
three.
I didn't get those jobs till Iwas in my late 40s.
I spent six years in the in themilitary and you know, which
had nothing to do with retail.
You can change and and you'vegot time.
Don't rush yourself.
Make sure you're ready.
I I think both of you wouldagree.
(35:19):
You've seen a number of peoplewho got promoted too early and
their career was over because ofthat.
It's better to take a littlelonger and be truly successful
than move too quick and not beable to achieve your goals.
So think about what it is thatyou want to be and what you want
to be remembered for, and thenwork forward towards that.
But remember, you have you havea lot of time to do that.
Tony W. (35:42):
And Dan, when you see young uh folks starting out on
their journey, I think there'soften this idea of like, how do
I break out from the pack?
How do I get noticed?
Do you have thoughts for youngfolks just on early guidance in
their career, how they getnoticed, how do they get that
tough, you know, that toughassignment that's going to
(36:03):
challenge them and how how theyshould be kind of looking at
that.
Bob's there?
Ken H. (36:07):
First is listen and learn.
You because while you're young,nobody's looking for you to
come up with the next greatestinvention.
And so take a little time andlearn.
And then when you're given anassignment, do that extra.
Okay, I want you to do thisanalysis on this particular
issue.
And when you give so manypeople, they do the analysis and
(36:28):
they hand you here it is, asopposed to I did the analysis,
and by the way, I saw this and Isaw this, and I think this is
something we should look at.
And you go, hmm, that'sinteresting.
And by the way, I did it, andhere it is.
And you do that extra.
And then they say, Oh, I'mgonna give them a tougher
assignment next time, a moreimportant assignment.
And then you do the same thing,and eventually you get
(36:50):
recognized, you know, Tony's theguy who I can count on and it's
gonna give me some goodthoughts, and do that extra.
I got to move him up so that hecan have even more impact.
That extra, and not just theytold me to do this, I did it,
here it is.
Think about what it is.
And and two things.
One, you get recognized for,but more importantly, you'll
(37:10):
learn from it.
It wasn't just I took a bunchof numbers and multiplied two
columns together and divided bythe third.
I learned it what washappening.
Or maybe I was wrong.
Maybe the person said, no, no,no, no.
This is what's going on here.
Well, now I've learnedsomething for the next time I do
that analysis.
Tony W. (37:27):
Is there something that you wish someone had told you
early in your career?
Kind of that something you walkby that you're like, wow, I
wish I would have done thatdifferently, or I wish I would
have known this earlier in mycareer when I was in my 20s?
Ken H. (37:41):
No, because my career in the 20s was very different than
my career.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, but one of the thingspeople asked me, because I have
had different jobs and and andmoved, and they said, was there
a job or was there a decisionthat you made in your career
that you would change?
Because there were a couple oftimes I left McKinsey for a
while to go to a startup sellingbulk storage silos in Buffalo,
(38:03):
New York.
I wound up selling the company.
I went back to McKinsey.
And then I went to homeshopping for a year.
And people say, Well, oh, wasthat a mistake?
And I said, No, I learned fromit.
Make whatever it is.
I tell people there's a reasonthe windshield's a lot bigger
than the rear view mirror.
Make that forward looking.
You need the rear view mirrorfor the history and the
learning, but look forward, makethat decision a good decision.
(38:27):
And it will be a good decision.
If you fret about it and worryand say, well, I woulda,
shoulda, coulda, it won't besuccessful.
But if you think about it uhas, you know, I'm gonna make
this work, it'll work.
And then if you don't like itor there's something else comes
along, then move on and dosomething else.
Don't say, you know, I'm afailure and and wallow.
(38:49):
Make it work.
One of the things is, and as Isaid, my definition of a
merchant is that, you know, halfof it's a journal optimist.
I'm a very optimistic person.
I I believe, you know, we canget things done.
And it may not be exactly how Ithought it would come out.
I can guarantee you, there isno way 20 years ago, 30 years
ago, whatever, that I wouldthink that I would be here where
(39:10):
I am and what I'm doing, oreven five years ago.
Things work out if you if youmake them work out.
I like that.
Tony W. (39:18):
Windshield's bigger than the rear view for a
purpose.
You know, in New West Pointgrads, you guys really you
continue to impress me.
Ken H. (39:24):
You gotta remember we we have to speak very plainly
because we're not that smart,you know.
If we were smart, we would saythat's an old that's a marine
infantryman.
Tony W. (39:33):
That's uh that I gotta claim that one.
Yeah, yeah.
Ken H. (39:36):
That if we we don't sit on a boat and eating a missile,
we're we're out in the field.
Tony W. (39:40):
Hey, I'm you and I are closer line than you'd think
because I was marine infantry.
You the ship was just for taxiservers from point A to point B.
That's it.
That's the only reason I wantto be on the ship.
Ken H. (39:50):
You're right.
You wished you were in thearmy.
Rich H. (39:54):
As a civilian, I'm staying out of this one.
Ken H. (39:56):
Yeah, but you're between us.
Rich H. (39:58):
I know, I know.
I'm gonna add this one and thenwe'll uh we'll pivot into the
rapid fire round.
Do you find that we are, from abusiness perspective, investing
too much in the weaknesses andthe red and the negative and not
enough and the positives andthe strengths?
Ken H. (40:14):
Definitely, but I don't think it's just business.
You watch the news, you watchDancing with the Stars.
The world loves to criticize.
I tell people all the time,because I am not opposed to
criticism.
Criticism in and of itselfisn't a bad thing, but make it
positive criticism and figureout how to make things work.
I I tell people, you know, oneof the challenges we have a lot
(40:36):
is we say, okay, we're gonna dosomething.
And the first thing, the whitecore puzzle of us kicks in and
says, Well, we've got thisproblem and this problem, and
say, okay, how much is the firstthing?
Well, it's 9% of the customers.
Okay, I'll settle for 91%.
How much is the second?
Well, it's 4%.
Okay, I'll take 87%.
You get 80% 7% right.
That's a pretty good grade,right?
(40:57):
Yeah.
Now you're gonna you want tothink of something else why we
can't do it?
Figure out how to how we getthe 87%, not why we can't do the
you know, the 13%.
But we start out that way.
You know, one of the things wetalk about here is don't tell me
why we can't.
Tell me how we can.
Rich H. (41:15):
I think that's perfect advice.
All right, rapid fire, Tony.
I'm gonna put in a bonus one.
I'm gonna warn Ken now.
So why don't you go ahead andtake the first and third?
I'll grab a second and thenclose us out.
Oh, I gotta go.
Ken H. (41:27):
What's your favorite comfort food?
Chocolate.
And as you can tell, I enjoyit.
It's one of the four basic foodgroups.
What are the other three?
Chocolate, cheese, bacon, andbutter.
Bake any of those you put anyof those on anything, it will
make it better.
And if you can put multiples,that's even better.
Rich H. (41:46):
Bacon, I didn't see that one coming.
I can't argue with that.
All right, so you are hosting adinner party.
You can invite any threepeople.
They can be alive or past, theycan be real or fictional.
Who are the three that you'reinviting over to the vineyard
for dinner?
Ken H. (42:01):
One would be Eisenhower.
He doesn't get credit for allthe things he did uh, you know,
militarily and politically.
I mean, all the way from WorldWar I to, you know, the Cold
War, just understanding all thethings he saw and did.
Just amazing.
Another would be Sam Walton,because as a retailer, what he
(42:24):
built was phenomenal.
And I fortunately did not getto meet him.
I got to meet Bill Glass andother people from Walmart, but I
never met him.
He, to me, when we talked, Tonyand I are talking about
leadership, he to me is so muchof what he accomplished.
And his ability to inspirepeople was unbelievable.
(42:45):
And that's something that Iwould love to learn from.
And the third, and this is thiskind of a weird one, but I I
was thinking about it last nightbecause I was looking for
something on the TV.
So I watched is SherlockHolmes.
Just because how his mindworked.
One of the things in retailthat you have to do is be so
observant and look and seethings.
(43:07):
And in fact, my wife accuses mesometimes.
She said, Can you know you juststate the obvious?
You see things other peopledon't see.
But that's he was able to doit.
Being able to, because so manytimes when you tell people
things, and I tell I tell peopleit's why retailers have slow
foreheads, is because we say,Oh, geez, yeah, that's right.
You know, we keep doing this.
(43:28):
And we we see when you whensomebody explains it to you, and
he had that ability to see.
So anyway, I think that wouldbe interesting.
I I don't know how they'd getalong, but three uh three people
who I I have questions that I'dwant to ask.
Tony W. (43:44):
Hey, Ken, speaking of joy, what's the best thing that
you've recently purchased thatmade you happy?
Because you were talkingearlier about making people
happy.
Ken H. (43:54):
I would say dinner with my wife.
You know, we've been married 52plus years now.
The joke is, oh, how'd you dothat?
Well, we've been together about20-something of it.
She's back in Napa, I'm inPhoenix.
Any people say, Where's thefavorite, where's your favorite
place?
Wherever she is.
She's a wonderful woman.
She has one fault, her choicein men.
But besides that, you know,whenever I'm there, we go to
(44:16):
lunch and we just we reallyenjoy each other.
And I I was thinking aboutmaterial things, and I really
haven't bought anything.
I couldn't think of something.
So, but I did enjoy lunch at uhMustards with my wife last
weekend.
Rich H. (44:31):
I love the answer.
And one of the things that Ienjoy is after editing the
podcast and we release it, mywife will listen to it on the
way to work.
We've been married, we're we'renot at 50 years, but we've hit
three decades, and so I'm sureI'm going to get the text when
she hears this part of it.
Ken H. (44:48):
And well, just remember the most the two most important
words to a successful marriage.
Rich H. (44:54):
I'm sorry.
Yes, dear.
Got it.
Ken H. (44:57):
Tony's got it.
Yes, dear.
Rich H. (45:00):
All right.
So I am going to uh uh be alittle bit agile and I'm gonna
ask the fourth question, andit's yours because I'm curious
as to what your answer would be.
What do you want to beremembered for?
Ken H. (45:11):
I was actually asked that question when I retired
from both Foot Locker andAcademy by somebody when I we
were doing the you know runningthe jersey up the you know the
top of the stadium and stuff,and they got people from the
stores out there.
And I I was in for at FootLocker, we were actually at
Disney World, and we had all ofour store managers from Foot
(45:31):
Locker, Lady Foot Locker, KidsFoot Locker, uh Champs, all of
our district managers, everybodythere, you know, probably four
or five hundred people.
And somebody asked me thatquestion, and I said, How many
of you since I've been in thecompany have been promoted or
had additional responsibility orbeen elevated since I've been
(45:52):
here?
About 80% of the people raisedtheir hand.
That's what I'm proud of.
That's what I want to beremembered for, is that I helped
you become, you know, a betterperson and grow and develop.
And I don't have children, andall of you are my children.
And that's that's what I reallyyou know makes me proud.
It was funny because the samequestion kind of came up at at
(46:15):
Academy, and that's that's thething that helping people grow.
That's that's what I love.
Rich H. (46:22):
And you are damn good at it.
Ken H. (46:26):
I still have work to do.
Rich H. (46:28):
Well, we appreciate you joining us today.
We made it through with only acouple of military standoffs.
We didn't hit the Army Navyprediction.
Tony W. (46:38):
You know what?
The reason at all, you know,all seriousness.
Uh you introduced me to Ken,and we ended up actually
grabbing lunch a couple monthsago and broke bread, and I
realized I can sit down and havea civil conversation with the
West Point grad.
So it's been I've I've actuallygrown through this whole
process with Ken.
He's he's he's brought up somenew things.
Ken H. (46:58):
Well, I will tell you, I enjoyed getting a chance to
meet you.
But I also the thing that Ithink is important, and you
asked the question earlier aboutbusiness and how we do.
After the Army Navy footballgame, and every time a West
Pointer sends some something toanother West Pointer, at the
bottom of it it says beat Navy,and Navy probably says the same
(47:21):
thing.
But after the game, we shakehands.
We are true partners, andthat's what's important for
people to understand is you canjoke and kit, but you you're
dependent on other people.
Working with them and beingsuccessful with them is so
important.
Good motivation.
Rich H. (47:38):
Well, Ken, thank you very much for joining us.
This has been a wonderfuljourney, a great journey, a lot
of takeaways from this, and justvery much appreciate you taking
the time today.
Ken H. (47:50):
Thank you, and and great to see you again. Hopefully
it's helpful to the students andproductive.
Thank you.
Strategy gets headlines, execution wins
seasons, and Ken Hicks has builta career on both.
Before he led turnarounds, helearned formations and then
brought that precision toretail.
A West Point graduate and U.S.
Army veteran, Ken carriedforward discipline, teamwork,
and a mission-first mindset.
And his first retail job?
A nursery, filling bags of dirtwhere he learned patience and
(01:09):
the value of sweating smalldetails.
I'm Rich Honeyball, and I'mjoined today by Tony Wells, a
Service Academy graduatehimself, Marine Infantry
officer, C-suite leader, andco-host for today's episode.
We sit down with Ken Hicks,president and CEO of PetSmart,
where he's leading the company'snext chapter by doubling down
on people, pets, and executionacross a complex national
(01:31):
footprint.
Prior to joining PetSmart in2024, Ken led Academy Sports and
Outdoors through a successfulIPO as CEO and executive
chairman, and earlierrevitalized Foot Locker by
focusing on the fundamentals,the customer experience,
operational excellence, and teamempowerment.
Earlier roles at JCPenney,Payless, Home Shopping Network,
(01:53):
May Department Stores, andMcKenzie sharpened his strategy
to execution muscle.
He also earned his MBA withhighest distinction from Harvard
Business School.
He and his wife Lucy marriedfor over 50 years, share a
Boston terrier named Skywalker.
In this episode, Ken shareslessons from service and
commerce, leading with purpose,using a recognition as strategy,
(02:16):
and building cultures that winon consistency.
And woven through his story isthe reason he leads the way that
he does.
A belief shaped over a lifetimethat great leadership isn't
measured by authority, butrather by the success of the
people that you lead.
Welcome back to our latestepisode of Retail Relates.
I am joined today by UnitedStates Naval Academy graduate
(02:41):
Tony Wells.
And I say that because ourguest today is West Point
graduate Ken Hicks.
And so at some point towardsthe end, we'll probably have
that Army Navy banter where weuh we joke and I will stand on
the sidelines and appreciate thefact that at the end of any
game where Army and Navy play,it's one team, one mission.
(03:04):
But it's a pleasure to welcomeKen Hicks to Retail Relates
today.
Ken H. (03:09):
Thank you very much, Rich.
It's great to be here.
Rich H. (03:11):
In addition to being a West Point graduate, you are
also the CEO of PetSmart.
And we've just finished readingyour bio.
It is impressive.
And I have the dubious honor ofhaving worked for an
organization that you led.
And so it's it's a double honorto have you on today.
(03:31):
So appreciate you joining us.
Ken H. (03:33):
Thanks for inviting me.
I appreciate it.
Rich H. (03:35):
So since we've read your bio and we will have an
extended bio in the show notes,one of the things that we try to
do is narrow down the sum ofyou to those three pivot points
that throughout your career,personal life, however you
choose to go on the journey,have brought you to where you
(03:56):
are today.
Ken H. (03:57):
I would say the first was West Point.
It was, you know, a challengingenvironment, and you learned
what you were made of.
You learned uh the importanceof team, and you you learned how
to lead well at the same time,you're getting a good education.
And it really was influentialin in my life and my thinking.
(04:19):
You know, still stay in touchwith many of the people I went
to school with and many of thelessons I learned while at West
Point.
The second would be when I wentto McKinsey.
I tell people when I went toHarvard Business School, the
thing I could do best in theworld was shoot cannons.
When I got out of HarvardBusiness School, the thing I
could do best in the world wasshoot cannons.
(04:39):
Uh I learned a lot of stuff,but I didn't know how the
business world worked andoperated.
McKinsey taught me how toapproach a problem and think and
how to plan, analyze, and plan,and then execute those.
Execution is what uh theworld's all about, is getting it
done.
(04:59):
And then finally, I would sayat the May Company, I had the
privilege of working for a truelegend, Dave Farrell.
In fact, Sam Walton said DaveFarrell was the best merchant in
the country.
So that that's pretty highpraise.
He really taught me retail andhow retail worked and ways to
(05:19):
approach retail, but he alsotaught me how to really
understand the customer.
And that's what's one of themost critical things in any
business environment is reallyknowing the customer and being
able to serve them and and givethem what they want.
Rich H. (05:37):
So normally I ask the question, is this the path that
you imagined?
I'm gonna alter that question alittle bit because obviously if
you went to West Point, I doubtthat you went to West Point to
one day wind up as a C-suiteleader in retail.
So instead, I'm gonna ask, whatdrove you to West Point?
What drove you to joining theArmy?
Ken H. (05:58):
It wasn't the family.
I my father was like all mostof his generation.
He was uh in World War II, hewas made uh corporal by an act
of Congress.
He was a POW and all POWs wereraised one rank.
And so he was a PSC during thewar and uh PSC and a POW.
But really, I went to WestPoint the same reason that
(06:19):
Dwight Eisenhower went to WestPoint.
It was the best education Icould afford.
Uh it it was they were gonnapay me to go to school.
It was a scholarship and uhgonna let me play football.
So a great place.
It was either that or go to uhSouthwest Texas and become a
dentist.
And I thought being an armyofficer would be more fun.
Tony W. (06:40):
That was probably a you know a good choice to go to
West Point.
Ken H. (06:44):
But much better than Annapolis.
Uh oh, soon we start we startedso early.
Well, no, I couldn't get in.
I they my eyes were too bad.
I you know that uh cat uhAnnapolis is a much uh much
tougher school to get into.
Tony W. (06:59):
Okay, that's for the record.
We got that on the record thata West Point grad said that.
Ken H. (07:03):
Well, because they I went in during during Vietnam.
It was a lot easier.
I couldn't get in now.
A lot more people wanted to goto Annapolis than to West Point.
And uh they're both goodschools, just one's better than
the other.
Tony W. (07:17):
You know, I I think it's maybe you can jump in here,
Ken, on this one.
Just I've always found beingtrained as someone in the
military that kind of engagingwith customers and interacting
with them and figuring out thecompetitive landscape to me
often had a lot of militaryparallels as an infantry
officer.
You know, find the enemy, youknow, or the find the customer,
(07:38):
engage, and then figure out howto answer competitive threats
and community.
Like there's a lot ofsimilarities, I've at least I
found.
I don't know if you find thatto be true.
Ken H. (07:48):
Definitely.
In fact, yesterday we werehaving a meeting about a
marketing campaign that we werelooking at, and we said, you
know, this is war.
We we're fighting thecompetition and we want to win.
And we've got to be pretty boldin what we do.
I actually wasn't the one whofirst said used the war analogy.
Some one of my other people whowas not a military background
(08:11):
said that.
And I said, Yeah, and you youlearn how to plan, how to
execute.
The other thing that you reallylearn how to do is lead people.
And you know as well as I dothat you start off with by
being, and at West Point andAnnapolis, we call them the same
thing, a plebe.
You are a server, you learn howto take orders, you learn how
(08:34):
to do things before you learnhow to give orders.
And you understand.
One of the analogies I use iswhen you ask somebody, you're
out there on a mission, and youask somebody, go down to that
intersection and make sure it'sclear.
And the person says, if I godown there, I'm putting my life
at risk.
If I stay here and disobey theorder, you'll send me back home.
(08:56):
They do it because they believethere are three things I tell
people that they really look forin a leader.
They're competent and they madeyou competent, that they're
confident in you and what you'retelling them to do, and you
made them confident.
And three, that you care.
You wouldn't do this unless itwas important.
You care about them.
(09:17):
And people understand that ifif that's what a leader does,
they are willing to do it foryou.
And there's there's an oldexpression, you go to war for
queen and country, but you diefor the bloke to your left and
the bloke to your right.
And you do that because youhave confidence and in their
competence and and you know theycare.
(09:37):
And that's so important.
And it's not just in themilitary, it's out in the in the
field.
I spend a lot of time in storestalking to store associates and
hourlies, and they know thatyou care.
I go down in the lunchroom, Ihave lunch with with the people
every day, and I sit at sit attable, and they know, okay, that
he listens to us.
(09:57):
May not always agree with us,but listens and wants to do what
is right for the company andright for us.
Rich H. (10:05):
And I will attest, having been in a uh meeting room
with Ken on more than oneoccasion, that there were either
military or war analogies orsports.
And and they were meaningful.
When you talk, I and I'm gonnago into the lesson part, Ken,
but and I want to make sure thatmy memory isn't failing me.
It's interesting because youwent to West Point, you served
(10:27):
in the army, you'll say this iswar, but then you're you're in
the lunchroom having lunch withthose that you're serving with,
and there's that humility.
And I seem to remember pecanpies making their way through to
those that did a great job.
Can we talk about that for asecond before I jump into the
(10:48):
lesson?
Ken H. (10:49):
I I still do that, by the way.
Uh, I've given away thousandsof pecan pies and letters,
handwritten notes to people whenthey do a good job.
We just had up a town hall, andthe woman who set it up got an
excellent speaker, and I justsent her a note.
But recognizing people, youknow, and again, go back to a
(11:10):
military analogy.
In in the civilian world, youknow, business world, people do
things, well, they get a biggerbonus.
Well, they get stock options.
Well, I get in the military,they get a ribbon and they they
will put their life at risk fora ribbon.
And they do it because it'sreally that personal
recognition.
And the butt the comp pie, ifyou remember, comes in a wooden
(11:32):
box, and they didn't really careabout the pie.
It's really actually was areally good pie.
But what they cared about wasthe box because they would put
it up on their desk as theribbon that I did good.
I had the best sales for thequarter, or I that project
really went well.
And when you call the wholeteam in and you congratulate
(11:54):
them, and I tell them, I said,success has a sweet taste.
This pie is to remind you ofthat sweet taste so that you
want to have success again.
Rich H. (12:03):
I love that story.
And I remember the boxes and Iremember the consistency, and
it's actually kind ofheartwarming to know that that's
still something that has passedalong.
So you were in the army, youwent to McKinsey.
What was the first retailposition you had?
Ken H. (12:19):
When I left McKinsey, I tell people, I said, there's
four basic places you can beassociated with the football
team.
You can be a player on thefield, those are the people that
make things happen.
You can be one of the headcoaches on the sidelines,
they're the ones who set thegame plan, make sure the right
resources are out there, givethe direction, or a coach in the
(12:40):
press box who calls down to thecoach on the sideline who tells
the person on the field what toexecute.
The consultants are up in thepress box, you know, and nobody
ever said fire the coach in thepress box.
It was the people on the field.
And the thing that I knew afterbeing in the military that the
con that I wanted to be on thefield.
(13:00):
And the other thing I knew isthat I still, having consulted,
didn't really know a lot aboutbusiness.
And so I went to a companycalled May Department Stores
Company, which at the time was avery big uh successful company,
had 26 years of consecutivequarterly profit increases.
They had a history of takingthe position of senior vice
(13:23):
president of planning, usingthat as a training position to
get you out into a realmerchandise role.
And so I was the head ofplanning, which my McKenzie
background helped me with.
But I I tell people I basicallycarried the clipboard and made
sure the Dave Farrell, the headcoach, didn't trip over the his
(13:46):
headphone head headphone wires.
Um that was before radioheadphones.
I spent back then we workedfive and a half days a week.
I spent 12 hours a day, fiveand a half days a week, watching
him, going visiting stores,being in strategy meetings,
being in operating reviewmeetings, and learning about
retail.
And that was probably as closeto a PhD in retail as you could
(14:11):
get.
Tony W. (14:12):
Ken, when you think about you've led a lot of bugs,
something that you think peoplethink about you or the area of
retail that is completely wrong.
Ken H. (14:23):
They think I know a lot.
I do know some things becauseI'm I'm old, I've been around a
long time.
What I learn, I learn everyday.
And so people think, well,geez, you know how this works.
No, but I'm willing to trydifferent things and I'm
listening to people.
And uh one of the funny storieswas I had uh my head of
marketing at Penny's, MikeBoyleson, when I left after nine
(14:44):
years, he said, Ken, I'veworked for you for nine years.
I don't think you ever told meto do anything.
You said I knew what you wantedme to do, but you never said do
it.
The reason why I told him Isaid no, because if I tell you
to do it, I own it.
If you figure it out and do iton your own, you own it and
you're gonna accomplish it.
So people think that I I know alot.
I'm just trying to get peopleto think and do what they know
(15:07):
is right.
Tony W. (15:08):
Nine years and and and you gave them no explicit
orders.
That's that's interestingcoming from a West Wynagrat.
Ken H. (15:13):
I I may have and he forgot it, but yeah.
But I didn't do I didn't do ita lot.
If you ask the people now, it'sthe same way.
I leave it up to them to makedecisions.
And what I tell people, I won'tlet them fall over the cliff.
I'll grab them by the belt ifthey grab me by the belt before
I walk off the cliff too.
Tony W. (15:30):
You know, speaking of retail, how do you think it's
changing now?
I mean, there's we can talkabout lots of retail, but what
what do you see as the biggestkind of evolutionary element to
retail right now?
Ken H. (15:44):
Well, I I think there are a couple of things.
One, it's become much morecompetitive.
And the irony is there's lessretailers, but more competitive
because they're they're betterand bigger.
The second is the customer ismuch, much more informed.
They were very, very dependenton the retailer to tell them.
(16:05):
And now the retailers, in manycases, not the one who tells
them.
They either get it online orthey get it from some influencer
or what they saw on the screen.
And so probably I would say oneof the biggest changes is the
edification of the customer andwhat they know coming in, as
opposed to years ago when theywere completely dependent on a
(16:28):
sales associate to say, here'swhat's best and here's what you
should do.
Tony W. (16:32):
Can you share a recent strategy or idea that exceeded
your expectations?
Either you thought, oh man,that I'm not sure this is gonna
work.
Ken H. (16:40):
Maybe you let your team move forward with it or Yeah,
this this one i isn't quite asas recent, but it was one that
was a big strategy and turnedout to be a big winner.
Was when I was at Footlockerand took over, we were trying to
figure out how to, you know,how do we grow?
Uh we had had several uh yearsof of negative sales comps and
said, you know, what we need todo is we're a bigger opportunity
(17:03):
because we we had saturated theUnited States with Footlocker
and and champs and ladyfootlocker and kid footlocker
stores, where we had anopportunity was in Europe.
We had 400 stores in Europe andwe were not doing well in
Europe.
And the reason we weren't doingwell in Europe is we were
looking at Europe like theUnited States.
All of Europe was homogeneous.
That was not the case.
(17:24):
In Italy, they wore sneakersfor fashion.
In Germany, they wore them towork out in.
And they also you probably havenever even seen a brown
sneaker, but they wore brownsneakers.
England, they wore them foreveryday shoes.
In France, they wanted thelatest American shoe.
And so what we did is we weregoing to double our store count
(17:44):
and we were gonna market bycountry.
That became one of our biggestgrowth vehicles was in Europe.
As we expanded the number ofstores, we we made an
acquisition of uh a runningstore in Germany.
And uh really, it was notintended to be the big growth
vehicle, but it turned out to bethe big growth vehicle.
(18:05):
And that was really exciting todo.
One of the things about retail,that that was a home run.
The other thing, and the reasonmore recent looking at things
was retail's a whole bunch ofsingles.
You do little things, and sothey they exceed your
expectations.
One of the things, uh, forexample, at Academy was we were
(18:27):
very good in wood bats, but wedidn't have a lot of high-end
bats.
And we went to Mariuchi and weput in the high-end Mariuchi
aluminum bats, and we're saying,boy, you know, our highest
price bat we have is like $150.
These Mariucchi started $300and they flew out the door.
That was one that told us wehave a customer who also wants
(18:51):
best, as well as the customerwho wants good and better.
Tony W. (18:55):
One more, then I'm gonna throw it back over to
Rich, which is when you look atthe landscape right now, what
are you most excited about ormore cautious about?
Either you think you're eitherone you want up about the retail
space right now.
Anything got you super excitedor super worried right now?
Ken H. (19:13):
Well, the the cautious is the customer.
Right now, the customer ischallenged.
And that's that's a nice wordfor saying they're under a lot
of pressure, financial pressure,a lot of things going on in
their life.
And we're trying to to wintheir confidence to buy products
from at Petsmart.
We're trying to make sure thatthey they have pets and pets
(19:35):
continue to grow.
And some people say, I can'tafford that pet.
And how do we take care ofthem?
The thing that has me superexcited is that there are new
ideas and things coming out allthe time that really show the
customer is still there.
A couple of examples.
One is the fastest growing partof pet food is fresh froze.
(19:56):
People are spending $10, $12,$14 a meal for their pets.
That's a McDonald's meal, butthey're doing that every day for
their pets, and people arewilling to do that.
So I my belief and in mycurrent role is people still
really care about their pets.
Another new idea that's a crazyidea is a thing called the
kitty litter robot.
(20:17):
It's a big shell that cleansitself $700.
You know, we sell a $29.99 pinthat you can put litter in, or
you can buy this $700self-cleaning one.
We're selling that $700self-cleaning one very well.
There's a customer out therethat's not just looking how do I
get the cheapest.
(20:38):
They're looking for how do Iget what makes my life easy.
Thanks for sharing that.
Rich H. (20:43):
So the only thing I've really, and you'll claim there's
more, but the only thing I'veseen you be unsuccessful at is
retiring.
Ken H. (20:49):
My wife has has I I've failed it twice.
I'm not sure she'll let me failit a third time, so I have to
stay here for quite a while.
So we we have lessons, and oneof the lessons, best lessons
when when uh when I was screwingup, was when I took over my my
artillery battery when I was ayoung captain.
Artillery battery has about 140troops in it, and it has six
(21:12):
cannons.
I was very proud of the factthat I was the best cannoneer.
I could do better than all ofmy troops, although my job was
not to shoot the cannon, and Icould only fire one at a time.
And I had a first sergeant,first sergeant Hall.
He was probably, not probably,he was 20 years plus years older
than been to Vietnam threetimes, had a bronze star medal,
and I was his boss.
In the Army, you call the firstsergeant the top sergeant
(21:34):
because they're the top sergeantof the of the unit.
And the first couple of monthsdid not go well.
We were screwing up right andleft, and we were missing things
and and not doing things well.
One evening he sat me down, uh,or he I he sat down in my
office across from me.
He said, Sir, you're notenjoying yourself, are you?
And I said, No, top, it's thisthis is tougher than I thought
(21:57):
it was gonna be.
And he said, Tell you what,sir, you give us the direction
and and tell us what you want usto accomplish and give us the
rope.
And myself, the exo, theexecutive officer, the other
sergeants, and I, we will get itdone for you.
Give us the direction, let usdo it.
You don't have to do it.
(22:17):
I still to this day rememberthat lesson where somebody who
worked for me sat me down andcounseled me, but also gave me
some of the best advice I'd everhad about you can't do it all
as you move up the chain.
And that was one of the thingsabout being the best gunner.
I can only fire one gun at atime.
So the battery's only 17%effective.
(22:38):
My job was to make the sixgunners I had better than me.
And then the battery's 100%effective because my job was not
to shoot a cannon, it was toget people to learn and know how
to do that well.
And so that was one of thethings that the first sergeant
taught me and that I learned ismy job is not to do anything.
(22:59):
I don't show up.
I'm sitting here talking,there's talking to you.
Companies out there running,and it's doing fine.
People every day.
Nobody notices that I'm notthere.
Our store manager's not there,they notice that.
The per the buyer isn't placingan order, they notice that.
My job is to make sure that wehave the the best people with
the right direction and theyhave the right resources, and
(23:22):
they do it.
And then stand back and letthem go, not get in the way and
screw it up.
Rich H. (23:26):
I love that analogy.
And I think some of the bestbosses that I've worked for have
a similar mentality.
When you do get pulled backinto an organization or you have
invested in anotheropportunity, what is it that you
look for that draws you in andthat says this has the potential
for success?
Ken H. (23:48):
People say, Oh, you've had success at, you know, we
when I was at Pennies, we did wewere doing well.
You remember, and we were theturnaround of the decade.
And then Footlocker Academy,and and then the reason I came
here, I look and say, is it agood business?
Does it have a good customerbase?
Does the customer like it?
(24:09):
Is it growing?
Is it one that will be around?
And are they operating poorly?
Because the first part of thatI can't do anything about, but I
can work on the on theexecution part, and that's what
I focus on.
If all the other things aregood in the market, I fortunate
enough I went when sneakersstarted, you were really flying.
(24:30):
I'm a footlocker.
You know, I was at Academy whenCOVID and after COVID, when
everybody all of a sudden wantedto do sports and they were
looking for something toentertain.
And then here, the pet growth.
That's a good solid industry.
But if you aren't executingwell, you won't do well.
But that you can fix.
Tony W. (24:50):
I I had an old boss that said, then retail is
details.
Yeah.
It's all about everything aboutit's the small things that
matter.
And and you build on those, andthen you get to, you know, get
to good operation or goodexecution.
Ken H. (25:05):
So it is.
And that's when when you sitdown and you look and you
develop your strategy, you youlearn and you don't, you know,
you're not looking for the nextshiny nickel.
You're looking for how toexecute.
And, you know, it's blocking.
You know, I never did fullyunderstand the three yards in
the cloud of dust, but it's fouryards in a cloud of dust.
But you make it clear to thepeople and you give them that.
(25:26):
And one of the things I'vedone, and this I learned from
again from when I was in thearmy.
When in the army, we carriedthe code of conduct and our
daily battle mission in ourpocket every day, and you knew
what it was.
You didn't have to refer to itevery day.
When I got to to Penny's, I Iwrote that up actually at May
Company.
I wrote it up for May Companyfor Dave Farrell, and then at
(25:49):
Penny's and did it atFootlocker, did it at Academy.
We've got everybody, we telleverybody, here is open it up,
here's our vision, here's ourmission, here's our values.
This is the strategy that wehave.
Because we're a privatecompany, they didn't want me to
put, well, you put the goalshere, but at the other public
companies, I put the goalsbecause they were public.
(26:10):
And everybody in the companyknows what that is.
And I carry it around andperiodically both.
Now, does that fit our vision?
Does that meet our fit?
Or does that fit our values?
But people know what it is thatwe're working for.
And it there's no question.
Our vision is to be the bestpet retailer in the country.
How we're going to do that isbring the joy of pets to
(26:33):
everybody.
And so we think about is thatdoes that fit our vision to be
the best?
And so our values are customerfirst, our values are excellence
in execution.
And those are things that thatare important.
Team Pet Smart.
Tony W. (26:47):
Awesome.
Just on those retail detailsthings, it's very weird.
I find myself when I go into astore and the visual
merchandising or the stock, likeI go in and there's no product
on the shelves, or it's notpulled to the front, or I find
myself not enjoying the shoppingexperience because I'm just
like, there's so much wronghere.
Ken H. (27:08):
What's where's the store manager?
That's the other thing aboutretail, because it is the
detail, but it's a peoplebusiness.
You go in, you because you talkabout that, you go into one
store.
I was out in a city and theyhad two stores seven miles
apart.
And I go in one store and therewere all sorts of issues.
I go seven miles further andthey had executed to the nines.
(27:32):
And it was because the manager,now, our job is to have that
district manager take thelearnings from one to the other
and not accept why do I have twostores that are seven miles
apart that are executing sodifferently?
That's a leader who's not doingtheir job, that district
leader, and they've got to makesure that those store managers
(27:54):
do their job.
Rich H. (27:55):
So when you look at investing in people, whether
it's a seasoned leader thatyou're bringing on board or an
entry-level person, what are themain characteristics that
you're looking for?
What is that piece that youwant to make sure they have
coming in?
And you and the organizationcan help build the rest.
Ken H. (28:15):
First of all, they they've got to care.
One of that's one of the otherthings about the business I'm in
now.
Our people are all passionateabout pets.
So they they care.
The other is to takeresponsibility as a leader, not
point at somebody else or say,well, you know, this happened or
that happened, you know, bigline now that everybody talking
(28:37):
about.
Well, you know, it's thosetariffs, you know, that those
tariffs that's that's theproblem.
They hit us all the same.
Why are some doing better andsome not doing better?
So you can't use that as anexcuse.
So you have to takeresponsibility and and be
accountable.
And and the other is theability to develop people and
care about people.
And if you care about thepeople and you work to develop
(28:59):
them and have a good team, theywill execute well.
They will follow the details,they will use their initiative
to get things done.
And if you don't do that, ifthey if you don't care, if you
don't not responsible for whatyou do and you're not willing to
develop a team, you won't besuccessful.
Tony W. (29:18):
It was like time's up and kind of being a servant
leader.
Ken H. (29:22):
It it really is.
There are probably somebusinesses where you can sit up
on high and tell people, but inretail, you've got to be out
there.
People have to know that youcare about them and that you're
willing to do the things thatthey have to do.
And one of the things, and youknow this, Tony, that you learn
is you would never ask somebodyto do something that you
(29:43):
wouldn't be willing to do.
Tony W. (29:45):
Exactly.
Ken H. (29:46):
And if you're not willing to do it, then don't ask
them.
And the people know they are,it doesn't matter at what level,
they can sort out who doesn'tcare and who does care really
quickly.
And one of the things when youmake a move on a person who you
didn't think was performingwell, usually what happens, the
people go, What took you solong?
We knew it.
Rich H. (30:07):
So if you're talking to somebody who is not aware of
retailer experience in retailand they have misconceptions,
what what do you tell somebodyabout the retail industry that
doesn't have the insight and theinside that you do that might
get them to get a little bitmore excited about the industry?
Ken H. (30:25):
It's one of the most fun businesses that can be out
there because you're makingpeople happy.
Very few people walk out of astore upset.
No, they're happy.
You know, particularly thebusinesses I'm in.
I only do fun stuff, like Isaid, you know, sneakers,
sporting goods, guitars, and uhpets.
They walk out happy.
And if we don't serve themproperly, And they can't find
(30:47):
it, or we we couldn't helpexplain the product to them,
then they leave unhappy.
So one of the great thingsabout retail is you make people
happy.
You know, you fill their day.
Another thing is, unlike a lotof other businesses, when I was
consulting, I did uh electricutilities.
They make one decision every 10years, and it's got to be
(31:07):
exactly right, whether theybuild a power plant or not.
I did oil and gas.
They make a decision aboutevery three to five years
whether or not to drill a field.
And that's gotta be prettyclose to perfect.
Insurance, decision every yearwhere they come out with a new
product.
And they got to be pretty closeto right.
You know, even package goods,they make a decision every 90
days.
You know, do I put a new uhseasoning on the chips or make a
(31:31):
different size bag or whatever?
In retail, you make decisionsevery second.
And the good news, we're theonly profession other than the
NBA where if you're right abouthalf the time, you go to the
Hall of Fame.
But you can make a mistake aslong as you learn from it.
Lord knows I made a lot ofmistakes.
But if you learn from it, don'trepeat it, you get a chance to
(31:51):
try.
And the next day, people say,well, it's like a marathon.
They said, No, a marathon hasan end.
Every day you get a new chanceto to excel.
Every day.
And that that's fun.
It's not like, boy, we builtthat power plant in the wrong
place and and it's a disaster.
No, we get it.
Tomorrow, my definition of amerchant is a constant critic
(32:12):
and internal optimist.
Boy, if I would have done thistoday, it would have been
better.
But wait till tomorrow.
Tomorrow is going to be great.
That's the fun thing aboutretail is you're making people
happy and you always get toimprove.
You you can you never get tothe point where it's perfect.
You can always make it better.
Rich H. (32:31):
So you talk about the categories after JC Penny.
You've got guitars, you've gotsporting goods, you've got
sneakers, you've got pets.
Let's talk wine.
Oh, yeah.
That's a nice subject.
So, what drove you to say, I'mgonna own a vineyard?
Ken H. (32:46):
Well, it was my wife.
I moved her 16 times.
And when I retired the firsttime, I was thinking I'd find
something else.
I didn't.
So I told her, you know, youpick this time.
I will let you.
I picked the first 16, you pickthis one.
Uh and most people look for aplace and find a house.
She found a house in in theNapa Valley, and it came with a
(33:07):
vineyard.
You know, she said, Do youreally want to move out?
I said, I told you, whereveryou want to go, I'm going.
And so we moved out there, andfour months later, the
opportunity came up at Academy.
And so I left her out there,and she's now master of the
vineyard, and she loves it.
She said, I, you know, I Inever knew how much fun this
(33:27):
could be.
And they just harvest harvestedour grapes last week, and um,
we had a bumper crop, so we'reexcited.
Rich H. (33:35):
Any pictures of you, Lucy Styles, stomping on the
grapes?
Ken H. (33:38):
We no, we don't do that.
We're we're just the the wejust have the vineyard.
Although I do have a picture ofher holding up, and she has one
of me holding up our our abucket of the grapes that were
just picked uh last week.
Rich H. (33:49):
So we're gonna move into some of the advice for
those emerging professionals andthose that are are students and
thinking about retail.
Before that, though, I will cuethis up.
Is there a question that youwould want to ask those who are
studying right now or who areemerging leaders?
What would you want to ask themand get feedback on?
Ken H. (34:12):
I guess what I'd like to know is what would they, what
would you like to be rememberedfor?
You know, think about that asyou think about what you what
you plan to do and what you wantto do.
Because everybody, you know,what school do I get into?
What's my first job?
What do I, what do I do?
They're worried about that, butyou can change.
You know, Tony and I are goodexamples to your point.
(34:34):
At one point in my life, I wasshooting cannon.
And then at another point inlife, I have responsibility for
women's lingerie.
You know, that who would havethought that?
You can change.
You can find something that youreally enjoy and change.
And people are so worried thatthey I have to do this.
The other thing is you don'tknow how young you are.
I've got to be this by thisdate, or this by this date, or
(34:57):
this by I've been president ofwhat, six companies, CEO of
three.
I didn't get those jobs till Iwas in my late 40s.
I spent six years in the in themilitary and you know, which
had nothing to do with retail.
You can change and and you'vegot time.
Don't rush yourself.
Make sure you're ready.
I I think both of you wouldagree.
(35:19):
You've seen a number of peoplewho got promoted too early and
their career was over because ofthat.
It's better to take a littlelonger and be truly successful
than move too quick and not beable to achieve your goals.
So think about what it is thatyou want to be and what you want
to be remembered for, and thenwork forward towards that.
But remember, you have you havea lot of time to do that.
Tony W. (35:42):
And Dan, when you see young uh folks starting out on
their journey, I think there'soften this idea of like, how do
I break out from the pack?
How do I get noticed?
Do you have thoughts for youngfolks just on early guidance in
their career, how they getnoticed, how do they get that
tough, you know, that toughassignment that's going to
(36:03):
challenge them and how how theyshould be kind of looking at
that.
Bob's there?
Ken H. (36:07):
First is listen and learn.
You because while you're young,nobody's looking for you to
come up with the next greatestinvention.
And so take a little time andlearn.
And then when you're given anassignment, do that extra.
Okay, I want you to do thisanalysis on this particular
issue.
And when you give so manypeople, they do the analysis and
(36:28):
they hand you here it is, asopposed to I did the analysis,
and by the way, I saw this and Isaw this, and I think this is
something we should look at.
And you go, hmm, that'sinteresting.
And by the way, I did it, andhere it is.
And you do that extra.
And then they say, Oh, I'mgonna give them a tougher
assignment next time, a moreimportant assignment.
And then you do the same thing,and eventually you get
(36:50):
recognized, you know, Tony's theguy who I can count on and it's
gonna give me some goodthoughts, and do that extra.
I got to move him up so that hecan have even more impact.
That extra, and not just theytold me to do this, I did it,
here it is.
Think about what it is.
And and two things.
One, you get recognized for,but more importantly, you'll
(37:10):
learn from it.
It wasn't just I took a bunchof numbers and multiplied two
columns together and divided bythe third.
I learned it what washappening.
Or maybe I was wrong.
Maybe the person said, no, no,no, no.
This is what's going on here.
Well, now I've learnedsomething for the next time I do
that analysis.
Tony W. (37:27):
Is there something that you wish someone had told you
early in your career?
Kind of that something you walkby that you're like, wow, I
wish I would have done thatdifferently, or I wish I would
have known this earlier in mycareer when I was in my 20s?
Ken H. (37:41):
No, because my career in the 20s was very different than
my career.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, but one of the thingspeople asked me, because I have
had different jobs and and andmoved, and they said, was there
a job or was there a decisionthat you made in your career
that you would change?
Because there were a couple oftimes I left McKinsey for a
while to go to a startup sellingbulk storage silos in Buffalo,
(38:03):
New York.
I wound up selling the company.
I went back to McKinsey.
And then I went to homeshopping for a year.
And people say, Well, oh, wasthat a mistake?
And I said, No, I learned fromit.
Make whatever it is.
I tell people there's a reasonthe windshield's a lot bigger
than the rear view mirror.
Make that forward looking.
You need the rear view mirrorfor the history and the
learning, but look forward, makethat decision a good decision.
(38:27):
And it will be a good decision.
If you fret about it and worryand say, well, I woulda,
shoulda, coulda, it won't besuccessful.
But if you think about it uhas, you know, I'm gonna make
this work, it'll work.
And then if you don't like itor there's something else comes
along, then move on and dosomething else.
Don't say, you know, I'm afailure and and wallow.
(38:49):
Make it work.
One of the things is, and as Isaid, my definition of a
merchant is that, you know, halfof it's a journal optimist.
I'm a very optimistic person.
I I believe, you know, we canget things done.
And it may not be exactly how Ithought it would come out.
I can guarantee you, there isno way 20 years ago, 30 years
ago, whatever, that I wouldthink that I would be here where
(39:10):
I am and what I'm doing, oreven five years ago.
Things work out if you if youmake them work out.
I like that.
Tony W. (39:18):
Windshield's bigger than the rear view for a
purpose.
You know, in New West Pointgrads, you guys really you
continue to impress me.
Ken H. (39:24):
You gotta remember we we have to speak very plainly
because we're not that smart,you know.
If we were smart, we would saythat's an old that's a marine
infantryman.
Tony W. (39:33):
That's uh that I gotta claim that one.
Yeah, yeah.
Ken H. (39:36):
That if we we don't sit on a boat and eating a missile,
we're we're out in the field.
Tony W. (39:40):
Hey, I'm you and I are closer line than you'd think
because I was marine infantry.
You the ship was just for taxiservers from point A to point B.
That's it.
That's the only reason I wantto be on the ship.
Ken H. (39:50):
You're right.
You wished you were in thearmy.
Rich H. (39:54):
As a civilian, I'm staying out of this one.
Ken H. (39:56):
Yeah, but you're between us.
Rich H. (39:58):
I know, I know.
I'm gonna add this one and thenwe'll uh we'll pivot into the
rapid fire round.
Do you find that we are, from abusiness perspective, investing
too much in the weaknesses andthe red and the negative and not
enough and the positives andthe strengths?
Ken H. (40:14):
Definitely, but I don't think it's just business.
You watch the news, you watchDancing with the Stars.
The world loves to criticize.
I tell people all the time,because I am not opposed to
criticism.
Criticism in and of itselfisn't a bad thing, but make it
positive criticism and figureout how to make things work.
I I tell people, you know, oneof the challenges we have a lot
(40:36):
is we say, okay, we're gonna dosomething.
And the first thing, the whitecore puzzle of us kicks in and
says, Well, we've got thisproblem and this problem, and
say, okay, how much is the firstthing?
Well, it's 9% of the customers.
Okay, I'll settle for 91%.
How much is the second?
Well, it's 4%.
Okay, I'll take 87%.
You get 80% 7% right.
That's a pretty good grade,right?
(40:57):
Yeah.
Now you're gonna you want tothink of something else why we
can't do it?
Figure out how to how we getthe 87%, not why we can't do the
you know, the 13%.
But we start out that way.
You know, one of the things wetalk about here is don't tell me
why we can't.
Tell me how we can.
Rich H. (41:15):
I think that's perfect advice.
All right, rapid fire, Tony.
I'm gonna put in a bonus one.
I'm gonna warn Ken now.
So why don't you go ahead andtake the first and third?
I'll grab a second and thenclose us out.
Oh, I gotta go.
Ken H. (41:27):
What's your favorite comfort food?
Chocolate.
And as you can tell, I enjoyit.
It's one of the four basic foodgroups.
What are the other three?
Chocolate, cheese, bacon, andbutter.
Bake any of those you put anyof those on anything, it will
make it better.
And if you can put multiples,that's even better.
Rich H. (41:46):
Bacon, I didn't see that one coming.
I can't argue with that.
All right, so you are hosting adinner party.
You can invite any threepeople.
They can be alive or past, theycan be real or fictional.
Who are the three that you'reinviting over to the vineyard
for dinner?
Ken H. (42:01):
One would be Eisenhower.
He doesn't get credit for allthe things he did uh, you know,
militarily and politically.
I mean, all the way from WorldWar I to, you know, the Cold
War, just understanding all thethings he saw and did.
Just amazing.
Another would be Sam Walton,because as a retailer, what he
(42:24):
built was phenomenal.
And I fortunately did not getto meet him.
I got to meet Bill Glass andother people from Walmart, but I
never met him.
He, to me, when we talked, Tonyand I are talking about
leadership, he to me is so muchof what he accomplished.
And his ability to inspirepeople was unbelievable.
(42:45):
And that's something that Iwould love to learn from.
And the third, and this is thiskind of a weird one, but I I
was thinking about it last nightbecause I was looking for
something on the TV.
So I watched is SherlockHolmes.
Just because how his mindworked.
One of the things in retailthat you have to do is be so
observant and look and seethings.
(43:07):
And in fact, my wife accuses mesometimes.
She said, Can you know you juststate the obvious?
You see things other peopledon't see.
But that's he was able to doit.
Being able to, because so manytimes when you tell people
things, and I tell I tell peopleit's why retailers have slow
foreheads, is because we say,Oh, geez, yeah, that's right.
You know, we keep doing this.
(43:28):
And we we see when you whensomebody explains it to you, and
he had that ability to see.
So anyway, I think that wouldbe interesting.
I I don't know how they'd getalong, but three uh three people
who I I have questions that I'dwant to ask.
Tony W. (43:44):
Hey, Ken, speaking of joy, what's the best thing that
you've recently purchased thatmade you happy?
Because you were talkingearlier about making people
happy.
Ken H. (43:54):
I would say dinner with my wife.
You know, we've been married 52plus years now.
The joke is, oh, how'd you dothat?
Well, we've been together about20-something of it.
She's back in Napa, I'm inPhoenix.
Any people say, Where's thefavorite, where's your favorite
place?
Wherever she is.
She's a wonderful woman.
She has one fault, her choicein men.
But besides that, you know,whenever I'm there, we go to
(44:16):
lunch and we just we reallyenjoy each other.
And I I was thinking aboutmaterial things, and I really
haven't bought anything.
I couldn't think of something.
So, but I did enjoy lunch at uhMustards with my wife last
weekend.
Rich H. (44:31):
I love the answer.
And one of the things that Ienjoy is after editing the
podcast and we release it, mywife will listen to it on the
way to work.
We've been married, we're we'renot at 50 years, but we've hit
three decades, and so I'm sureI'm going to get the text when
she hears this part of it.
Ken H. (44:48):
And well, just remember the most the two most important
words to a successful marriage.
Rich H. (44:54):
I'm sorry.
Yes, dear.
Got it.
Ken H. (44:57):
Tony's got it.
Yes, dear.
Rich H. (45:00):
All right.
So I am going to uh uh be alittle bit agile and I'm gonna
ask the fourth question, andit's yours because I'm curious
as to what your answer would be.
What do you want to beremembered for?
Ken H. (45:11):
I was actually asked that question when I retired
from both Foot Locker andAcademy by somebody when I we
were doing the you know runningthe jersey up the you know the
top of the stadium and stuff,and they got people from the
stores out there.
And I I was in for at FootLocker, we were actually at
Disney World, and we had all ofour store managers from Foot
(45:31):
Locker, Lady Foot Locker, KidsFoot Locker, uh Champs, all of
our district managers, everybodythere, you know, probably four
or five hundred people.
And somebody asked me thatquestion, and I said, How many
of you since I've been in thecompany have been promoted or
had additional responsibility orbeen elevated since I've been
(45:52):
here?
About 80% of the people raisedtheir hand.
That's what I'm proud of.
That's what I want to beremembered for, is that I helped
you become, you know, a betterperson and grow and develop.
And I don't have children, andall of you are my children.
And that's that's what I reallyyou know makes me proud.
It was funny because the samequestion kind of came up at at
(46:15):
Academy, and that's that's thething that helping people grow.
That's that's what I love.
Rich H. (46:22):
And you are damn good at it.
Ken H. (46:26):
I still have work to do.
Rich H. (46:28):
Well, we appreciate you joining us today.
We made it through with only acouple of military standoffs.
We didn't hit the Army Navyprediction.
Tony W. (46:38):
You know what?
The reason at all, you know,all seriousness.
Uh you introduced me to Ken,and we ended up actually
grabbing lunch a couple monthsago and broke bread, and I
realized I can sit down and havea civil conversation with the
West Point grad.
So it's been I've I've actuallygrown through this whole
process with Ken.
He's he's he's brought up somenew things.
Ken H. (46:58):
Well, I will tell you, I enjoyed getting a chance to
meet you.
But I also the thing that Ithink is important, and you
asked the question earlier aboutbusiness and how we do.
After the Army Navy footballgame, and every time a West
Pointer sends some something toanother West Pointer, at the
bottom of it it says beat Navy,and Navy probably says the same
(47:21):
thing.
But after the game, we shakehands.
We are true partners, andthat's what's important for
people to understand is you canjoke and kit, but you you're
dependent on other people.
Working with them and beingsuccessful with them is so
important.
Good motivation.
Rich H. (47:38):
Well, Ken, thank you very much for joining us.
This has been a wonderfuljourney, a great journey, a lot
of takeaways from this, and justvery much appreciate you taking
the time today.
Ken H. (47:50):
Thank you, and and great to see you again. Hopefully
it's helpful to the students andproductive.
Thank you.
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