November 21, 2024 • 52 mins
Discover how a childhood surrounded by intellectual conversations and the influence of a trailblazing mother in finance shaped the charismatic Deborah Weinswig, founder and CEO of Coresight Research. Her aspirations, from being a doctor to discovering accounting and then eventually analytics, coupled with a love for technology, paint a vivid picture of unexpected career pivots. Deborah's story unfolds with personal anecdotes about how playing the violin sharpened her listening skills, critical in her roles as an analyst and strategist, and how the wisdom imparted by her mother guided her through professional challenges.
Mentorship plays a starring role in overcoming obstacles and seizing opportunities. Through personal stories and experiences, we explore how guidance from mentors can illuminate paths previously unseen. From competitive tax and audit programs to navigating overwhelming work commitments, listening and seeking advice from mentors has been a constant and invaluable resource. Deborah shares her gratitude for the support received as she ventured into an adjunct role, underscoring the ongoing significance of mentorship in cultivating professional growth and resilience.
Coresight Research is at the forefront of retail transformation, utilizing technology and AI to redefine the industry. This episode highlights how the company assists C-suite executives with strategic insights and innovative solutions, supported by a global team spanning nine countries. Debra and I delve into the challenges and opportunities in retail, from legacy systems to the transformative potential of predictive AI. We also reflect on the tensions between short-term pressures and long-term strategies, inspired by leaders like Mike Ullman, whose patience and people-first approach leaves a lasting legacy in the dynamic world of retail.
Biography:
Deborah Weinswig, CEO and Founder of Coresight Research Inc., leads the Coresight Research team to provide actionable insights and solutions for retailers and brands that accelerate innovation and growth in the fast-changing retail and technology landscape.
Previously, Deborah served as Managing Director of Fung Global Retail and Technology (FGRT), the think tank of Fung Group. Previously, she was Managing Director and Head of the Global Staples & Consumer Discretionary team at Citi Research.
Deborah has been a trusted thought leader at the crossroads of technology, finance, and retail for nearly two decades. As a leading analyst and strategist, Deborah has deep expertise in AI, Metaverse, China, live streaming, retail media, supply chain, commercial real estate, and data monetization. In 2023, Deborah conceptualized and launched the first AI Council for the retail industry.
Deborah is a best-selling author and a board member of several prominent retail and technology companies and several charitable organizations. A member of the prestigious LinkedIn Top Voices program, Deborah is recognized as one of the top retail influencers in the world and has received multiple awards and honors for her industry leadership and impact.
Deborah has been invited to share her insights and Coresight Research data at over 200 events across the world including the Consumer Electronics Show, ShopTalk, World Retail Congress, NRF, ICSC, Money 20/20, Retail Innovation Conference & Expo, Future Stores Summit, NACDS, Total Retail Tech, Groceryshop, Women in Retail, NACS and more.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paula (00:00):
Today's guest on Retail Relates is Deborah Weinswig,
Founder and CEO of CoresightResearch Inc.
She leads the team to provideactionable insights and
solutions for retailers andbrands that accelerate
innovation and growth in thefast-changing retail and
technology landscape.
Previously, she served asManaging Director of Fung Global
Retail and Technology FGRT, thethink tank of Fung Group.
(00:22):
Previously, she was mandirector and head of the global
staples and consumerdiscretionary team at Citi
Research.
Deborah has been a trustedthought leader at the crossroads
of technology, finance andretail for nearly two decades.
As a leading analyst andstrategist, debra has deep
expertise in AI, metaverse,china live streaming, retail
(00:42):
media, supply chain, commercialreal estate and data
monetization.
In 2023, Deborah conceptualizedand launched the first AI
council for the retail industry.
Deborah is a bestselling authorand a board member of several
prominent retail and technologycompanies and several charitable
organizations.
A member of the prestigiousLinkedIn Top Voices program,
Deborah is recognized as one ofthe top retail influencers in
(01:04):
the world and has receivedmultiple awards and honors for
her industry leadership andimpact.
Deb's been invited to share herinsights and core site research
data at over 200 events acrossthe world, including the
Consumer Electronics Show, shopTalk, world Retail Congress, nrf
, icsc, money 2020, retailInnovation Conference and Expo
(01:25):
Future Store Summit.
Nacds.
Total Retail Tech Grocery Shop.
Women in Retail, nacs.
Deborah, we are so excited tohave you join us at Retail
Relates.
Welcome to the podcast.
We want to get to know you alittle bit, so, instead of
asking you the standardquestions of you know, tell me
about yourself.
Your bio is going to be in theshow notes, but tell me what
(01:47):
were the three pivotal momentsin either your professional or
personal career.
Deborah (01:52):
You know it's interesting because I think back
to kind of what were some ofthe things that helped define
kind of who I am and what I do.
So one growing up in our homewe had like a tiny little 13
inch black and white and thatwas it.
We had no TV, and so we hadreally deep dives at the dinner
(02:13):
table.
My mother had a financebackground and worked at PepsiCo
and my father was a real rocketscientist and worked at ITT in
aerospace and aeronautical, andso we really talked about very
academic topics and went deepand everybody at the dinner
table had an equal kind of partin the conversation and so in
some ways you almost felt likeyou had to do your homework,
(02:34):
research, before you got to thedinner table.
Why I bring that up is that asI progressed throughout my
career, I thought I wanted to bea doctor, couldn't stand the
sight of blood, but onlyrealized that after going to
school for pre-med and I waslike I love numbers right, I'll
go into accounting becausethat's numbers and so that was
probably about as much thoughtas I put into it and I did love
(02:56):
it.
The practice of it was muchdifferent than theoretical.
I probably would have enjoyedlike a PhD in accounting.
But in terms of the practicingaccounting, I ended up going to
PWC, and so you go to job sitesfor six, eight, 12 weeks.
You know you have lunch withnew people all the time, and
when people didn't know eachother, they talk about what they
watch on TV.
But I would have nothing totalk about because I didn't
(03:17):
watch TV.
And so I would work throughlunch and you know, my bosses
were always like oh, you're sucha hard worker.
So I got promoted very early,but it was interesting kind of
appearance.
I was also very early onsomebody who had a cell phone.
So if I was going to beliterally two minutes late, I
would call my manager.
And they were like you know,other people will be late,
they're not calling because theydon't have cell phones.
(03:38):
And so it was interesting kindof what really mattered.
And I thought about this a lotprofessionally right, I would
tell people if I was going to bea minute late, let's say on the
innovation edge.
I was one of the only peoplewho was doing that.
And then, secondly, thisappearance at least, and, yes,
did I work through lunch?
Because I would be sittingthere talking to myself if I
wasn't.
That is what helped mebasically get through where most
(03:59):
people got in three years and ayear and a half.
It really kind of stayed withme throughout my career and so I
would say, sometimes thefoundations of what you do at
home you don't realize, kind of,how they impact you and you
don't know where they impact you.
So that was one.
Secondly, I played the violingrowing up.
Now the reason I played theviolin is my brother played the
violin and I would see myparents pay all this attention
(04:22):
to him every day and I'm like,oh, I got to play the violin.
We learned in the Suzuki method, right, because we were very
young and you can't read or wecouldn't read music.
And the Suzuki method is aboutlistening and so because of that
, right in conversations, Iremember almost word for word
what people say, and it's alsoone of the reasons I've been so
comfortable in other geographies, because I can really
(04:47):
understand what people aresaying and learn languages
fairly quickly.
And so this idea aboutlistening is, I think, really
important, because so manypeople are thinking about what
they're going to say next, thatthey're talking over you, as
opposed to listening to whatyou're saying and, as an analyst
, remembering thoseconversations, writing things
(05:07):
down.
We all record everything likewe're recording this.
But I do think the second forme was playing the violin.
And then the third was my motherwas an early professional in
finance and a female.
I looked up to her amazinglyand she gave me pieces of advice
that I don't even know if sheknew she was passing them along.
(05:28):
But she's like never say no,you don't want to hurt people's
feelings.
And maybe at the point in timewhere they're asking you, she's
like say maybe, and if someone'stalking about something and you
really truly don't know what tosay or you're really not, it's
not something.
She's like just say that's sointeresting, but this idea that
you're positive and you'reupbeat and you're constructive,
(05:50):
you're not committing to thingsthat you're not going to do.
Then she said, right, nevertell a white lie because you
can't remember them and you wantto.
She said say like what youthink without hurting someone's
feelings, but in a way that theyunderstand that you are either
committing or not committing,and so some of those things
(06:11):
right very early in my childhood, and I don't even think she
realized she was like spittingoff these pearls of wisdom
Really from like my first job.
I actually had a paper routewhen I was 10, as we did those
days and my brother and I did ittogether, we were actually the
paper people.
We won this kind of big awardand I mean my father, like his
heart was like bursting throughhis chest with pride.
(06:31):
But going back to right, if wewere late, we apologized.
We just addressed things in away that was, I think, people
were surprised and we were veryyoung kids.
My dad would, like he's dealingwith papers super early in the
morning and my father would sitoutside.
And we didn't.
I don't think we thought aboutit, but my dad was getting up,
he had a full day of work.
I mean not that we didn't havea full day of school, but he was
(06:51):
getting up at 5am every day towatch us deliver newspapers so
that he was comfortable with usdoing it.
We learned about, you know,taking a lot of the principles
that we learned at home and thenapplying them into the real
world and so taking those earlylearnings.
Not much has changed in termsof how one engages with clients,
(07:13):
with friends, with colleagues,right, being open, honest,
committing when it makes senseand being really careful about
people's feelings.
I mean, those are things thatI've always embodied, so I'd say
a lot of what I learned veryearly on in life was really
pivotal to where I ended up andwhat I enjoyed and what I still,
today, focus on.
Paula (07:33):
That's a beautiful tapestry there that you painted
for us.
Thank you for taking us on thatjourney and through all of that
you know you've had to takerisks, you've gotten out of your
comfort zone, you've had to gofor challenges and we know that
some of your successes from yourbio.
Is there a particular failurethat stands out to you that
(07:53):
you'd like to share?
Deborah (07:55):
So my first job was at PwC.
There's actually I'm going toanswer that, but I'm going to
answer something before that.
So, going back to listening, Ihad interned there.
I really enjoyed it.
Like every day I get to show upwith like 18 other people and
we're working, but we're talkingthe whole time and we're eating
the whole time.
I'm like this is so fun, right,and they bring in food for us.
I was like this is this is thegreatest job ever and we and and
(08:16):
we were learning.
We were learning about so manydifferent companies in depth,
really in terms of research.
That was like some of thefoundation.
So I wanted to because, shootfor the moon, why not?
There was one kind of extra orspecial aspect of what we could
do where it was a tax audit.
You're spending six months intax and six months in audit and
(08:36):
you were becoming, you know,very skilled across kind of the
accounting, if you will, phenom.
And so I applied for this.
There are only two spots out oflike an opening class of 80.
And I went into the interviewand, unlike other interviews I'd
had, it was like an hour and hejust talked the whole time.
I think he asked me like one ortwo very quick questions and I
(08:58):
walked out there.
I remember calling my parentsand I'm like I didn't get it.
I said I didn't get to sayanything.
I said I just listened and myfather's like that's, he's like
maybe they've already made uptheir mind that they're going to
go one way or another, and sohe said, just wait.
And I did actually get the job.
I did get this amazingopportunity and it goes back to
right for me.
I was like it was another kindof point around listening, not
(09:21):
worrying about what you weregoing to say next.
And I bring that forwardbecause I ended up in this tax
audit rotation the first time.
I did it.
Right, I had just come off of anaudit busy season.
I mean, you're working, I'm ahard worker, but it was like 100
, 120 hours a week, right everyweek, and I was still new in the
professional world and so,right, you're taking everything
with a different level of, Ithink, concern and respect.
(09:45):
And I went right into a taxbusy season and so I didn't
realize, when people come to you, can you do this?
Of course I can do this right,no problem.
And so they give you work andthey give you work and they give
you work and soon I had theequivalent of like almost over
200 hours a week of work that Ihad said yes to going back to
being careful what you commit to.
And I didn't realize.
Because I just didn'tunderstand, because my whole
(10:07):
thing was like, oh my gosh, Iwant to get to the end, I don't
have any work.
And so I failed.
I disappointed people.
I had one of the most seniorpeople in the tax department
basically berate me and Iremember going into the bathroom
, just closing the door, justtaking a moment and closing my
eyes and just thinking aboutlike what is the right thing to
do in this circumstance.
I didn't understand, but I alsoshould have asked more
(10:30):
questions along the way.
So I came out and I that pointin time people had doors that
opened doors.
So I walked into her office,this very senior professional,
and I said I apologize.
I said I don't think Iunderstood the impact of my
actions and I was just very, youknow, there was no tears or
anything.
I said I don't think Iunderstood the impact of my
actions and I was just very, youknow, there was no tears or
(10:51):
anything.
I was just very pragmatic onhow I'd gotten here and some of
the mistakes I made along theway, and she, like she ended up
taking me under her wing andmentoring me, because she's like
every season, she's likesomebody does exactly what I did
, but nobody had ever come intoher office and apologized and
asked for guidance and kind ofexplained how they'd gotten
there.
And so I think that not beingafraid to like lean into failure
and understand what it was thatgot you there and also
(11:14):
explaining what happened, butmore explaining kind of what
your thought process was, andasking for guidance, because
there were definitely stepsalong the way where my thought
process was incorrect and Iwanted to know, going forward,
how could I correct thosemistakes so I didn't make them
again.
These days, do I getovercommitted?
I really try not to, because itgoes back to and this is what
(11:36):
she did, I mean, many moons agoput everything on the calendar,
review your calendar every day,have a to-do list.
The to-do list seems to begetting too long, right, reach
out and tell people, and so Iwould say that a lot of what.
I'm very fortunate.
I had great mentors and Isought them out right.
I've always sought out mentorsand there's somebody I have
right now.
I call him every Friday at 1230.
(11:57):
And basically he's like I can'tbelieve you did this and you
did this.
And I'm like please tell me,like how you have looked at this
.
Where did I have like a gap inmy perception or understanding?
And having that person and he'sa friend, I've paid coaches
before and whatnot, but I feellike friends guide you in
different ways.
I would say the lesson fromthat was lean into failure,
(12:18):
understand how you got there anddon't be afraid to ask for
advice on how others would havedone things differently.
And I think having a mentor,somebody in your life, I think
outside of your family, you guysare going to hear about your
work, enough anyways.
I found that that has helped mekind of throughout the years
and I continue to do that.
Rich (12:36):
I think I'll probably put that on a small clip and remind
myself of it from time to time.
I'm going to transition intothe lesson part of it and turn
it over to Gautham in a minute,but I want to give you a couple
minutes to talk about core siteresearch.
Gautam is mentoring me when itcomes to me trying to be an
adjunct and I smile every time Isee research that is attributed
(13:01):
to core site research and say Iknow where this is coming from,
but not everybody who listensis going to know what CoreSight
Research is and what you-.
Deborah (13:10):
I appreciate the opportunity.
It's really interesting we hadwhen I was part of Liam Fung, so
I'll talk about how we got here.
But we used to have, as we werespinning out and we had already
kind of announced our name, wehad one of our senior executives
.
He's like Debra could not havepicked a better name for the
company because she really sheand her team are really our core
insights and it's funny Ihadn't even really thought about
(13:33):
that just true truth about whenwe chose a name, but it really
has stuck.
So I started off going back toright, like my kind days.
I love numbers.
I loved understanding what wasaround the number right.
That's what you know kind ofvery typical audit does at a you
know one of the larger firmsand seeing all these different
challenges, I and I love to tellthe stories and that, once
(13:56):
again, that's what I did.
You, you told the storiesaround the number right.
Why did this number change thismuch year over year?
And we would look across right,the income statement, balance
sheet, cash flow, what could youtie into some of those changes
and what were some of the themesthat we were going to take out
of that audit?
I really loved that part of it.
I think that as I went tobusiness school, I had a unique
(14:18):
opportunity to audit aninsurance company and they have
very complex financialinstruments and there was one in
particular I found just like mymind loved and I became an
expert in this and it was reallydetailed.
I think this idea aroundcomplexity and numbers.
When I went to business school,I thought I wanted to be a
basically a portfolio manager inan insurance company and what I
(14:41):
found is just I love the numberaspect and I'd never even heard
of research as a career becausethere are so few research
analysts right Each firm.
I mean I went to Morgan Stanley.
We hired four people in the USthat year.
I was very fortunate to startMorgan Stanley.
I started off in globalstrategy and had this amazing
(15:02):
career working with unbelievablepeople.
I mean, my first week I'msitting down with Barton Biggs
and Byron Ween and I mean justeating up everything they're
saying and trying to understandhow they built their thesis and
what was it right and becausethey were always early and
whether they were right or wrong, they helped people make better
decisions, because you got tosee kind of both sides of it and
(15:25):
so, as I you know, kind ofspent almost a decade at
Citigroup and ended up leadingthe global consumer staples and
discretionary teams and thinkingabout making it through the
global financial crisis, whichwas probably the most difficult
part of my career.
And so making it through thatand starting to think about what
(15:46):
I loved.
I loved innovation.
I loved understanding what thenumbers like to, to improve the
numbers, what you needed to doand how to take kind of what you
understood to be true versuswhat you thought could be, and
having numbers tell that storyin between.
And so there was an Israelitech startup called Profitech
(16:07):
and I thought the CEO was great.
He always explained everythingin ways that I could really
understand it, and so I was veryopen with him one day and I
said I'm just thinking aboutwhat's next and he's like well,
we're looking for a chiefcustomer officer.
Mind you, I had no idea whatthat was at the time, because
retailers didn't have chiefchief officers back in 2012,
2013 for the most part, and Iwas like that's what I've wanted
(16:30):
to do my whole life.
And so starting there andstarting to really be in the
heart of tech and innovation andcreation you know this was
early days.
This was more predictive AIright this was before Gen AI and
seeing what we could do.
I mean, we were literallyinvesting entire data sets from
the largest retailers in theworld and then coming to them
with recommendations, which Ididn't look at as being so
(16:50):
different than what I did inaccounting right.
We were ingesting numbers, wewere trying to gather stories,
and I really loved it.
We were acquired actually by acompany that I had known very
well in the tech world.
When I started to think aboutwhat I might want to do next, I
had two opportunities One to goback to Wall Street and I still,
to this day, am veryappreciative of that opportunity
and one to lead a think tankbased in China.
(17:16):
This idea of something new,something kind of undiscovered
and unexplored, really kind ofspoke to what I was interested
in.
So that is the road that I took, and that was with Li and Feng.
They had four public companies,they had VC arms, private
equity arms and much more and tobe able to knit together all of
those data points in theorganization and different
people.
The time I joined, I think wehad about 50,000 employees
(17:36):
scattered in like 41 countries,and I tried to make it to almost
every country to sit down withpeople to understand what they
were seeing.
Sit down with people tounderstand what they were seeing
so that, at the corporate level, we could start to tie together
themes so that we could pointthe company in the right
direction.
We had somebody come to us towrite a report for them and they
(18:00):
were going to pay us what Iconsidered at the time an
unbelievable amount of money.
And so I went to you know myboss, who's the CEO?
And I said you know he's likewell, where you sit at the
corporate level, right, we don'tgenerate revenue, I'm happy for
you to do it.
He's like we just can't.
So it's basically like.
My response was I'm happy to dothe work, I can't take your
money.
And they're like this isamazing, right?
So we wrote this paper.
We then went into three citiesTokyo, shanghai and Seoul, korea
(18:28):
.
We were on stage with thiscompany talking about the
research that we had done, right?
So, going back to taking data,turning them into insights, and
I realized how much I loved itand what had been.
The challenge is, on Wall Street, you're measured every day,
right, the number of inboundcalls that you get, the kind of
you know, the ratings that youget from your clients.
You know we all focused oninstitutional investor.
I missed that, right, like Imissed this idea that I knew I
(18:48):
was doing a good job.
So I started to lean into thatand I went back to our CEO and
so we figured out a way that wecould start to do more in this
area.
He and I both ultimatelyrealized right with the cost of
the team and we were just a costcenter that maybe it made sense
for us to spin out and then wecould start to generate revenue,
cover our costs and stillprovide services to them.
So that's what we did.
(19:08):
That's what CoreSight is today.
So a long background, but, Ithink, an important one.
But ultimately, we're based ondata.
We have over a decade ofproprietary data.
In late 2019, as we werestarting to see things change,
we decided to do a weekly surveyof the US consumer and the
Chinese consumer publish thoseresults every week.
(19:29):
So you're talking five yearsnow of data and we've gone and
backtested it.
It's 98% predictive, which Ithink has blown even our minds
in terms of what the consumer isgoing to do based on what the
data says and I think our wholeteam right we get really excited
about this right.
We really geek out on this andyou know we've done a lot of
work around store openings andclosings.
Where are those stores locatedthat have closed?
(19:50):
Because a lot of these D2Ccompanies, as they've looked to
take down their customeracquisition costs and move
offline stores and locationsaren't necessarily easy to
locate, and so that's beenanother really interesting way
to take data and have an impactand so much more.
But the core of what we do issubscription research.
We have a global team.
We're nine countries on fourcontinents.
(20:11):
We try to look at things bothby verticals and what we do is
really retail only.
So that's how we differentiateourselves versus other research
firms, and I always say we'recomplementary, because we look
at things from a very specificlens.
Others have their own lens andwhen you put all of us together,
I think you get a more completepicture.
Ultimately, I want clients orpotential clients to have access
(20:34):
to the information they need,and then you know we can come in
and do a special project orsomething like that.
So we have subscriptionresearch.
That's the core, and off ofthat we've built an advisory
practice.
I'm doing anything from likemajor strategy projects, which I
find that my learning isexponential.
I typically am there at thebeginning, the middle and the
end because I do a lot of publicspeaking.
I'm very and we have a lot ofclients in financial services.
(20:54):
I'm very careful about my ownacquisition of material,
non-public information, but wehave an unbelievable advisory
team and we've done actuallyit's been interesting, just to
say it We've done a lot ofpricing work recently which I
find with like like for us.
You start to see very earlyright where these new
technologies, like Gen AI, wherethey're having an impact,
because we're starting to getinbounds from you know, the
(21:15):
C-suite on different things thatthey'd like to figure out and
almost right, single point,right, we'll come in, we'll do
these.
We call them sprints because wedo them very quickly right In
six weeks, eight weeks tops, andso we'll go and we'll tackle a
topic you know we'd love to dothat under kind of like a bigger
strategy project.
However, we kind of engage withfolks where we're excited and
(21:36):
then, off of the kind ofadvisory side, we've built this,
we call it innovatorintelligence.
But what we often find and wefound this in our advisory work
that tech companies can bechallenged explaining what they
do to the end customer right,because they're talking tech
Retailers, brands or whatnot aretruly talking a language from
(21:56):
the consumer point of view.
Usually we try to understandkind of the unique aspect
because every tech company, evenif, like on paper, it looks
like they're doing similarthings, there are nuances and
one may be a better fit for amulti-brand retailer, one may be
a better fit for luxury, forathletic footwear, for specialty
apparel, and we really try tolisten to that.
(22:17):
But we also help them telltheir stories and, once again,
we use a lot of data to do that.
So we'll do a lot of surveywork and it helps them then tell
their stories, right,no-transcript, and they're like
(22:57):
you have to own AI in retail.
You have to own thisconversation.
It's going to be really bigRight.
It's going to be really bigright, and this was, you know,
kind of let's call it early, youknow, right out of the first
quarter of 2023.
And so I'm now I feel like theweight of the world on my
shoulders because two people inmy world who are very important
have you know, I felt we'releaning into to us to do
(23:20):
something.
I was like, okay, we shouldprobably get people together,
probably in a private setting sothey're comfortable talking
about what is this Gen AI thingand how is this impacting their
business.
And then we've got to figureout a way to pay for you know
kind of our time and we ended uphiring several researchers, so
we brought in sponsors.
We started in August.
Actually, it's funny, we weregoing to have just one opening
(23:41):
meeting but we had so manypeople join us, we had two and
we've gotten together everyother week.
We had a conference.
It was truly unbelievable.
And then, as we moved forward,we hosted another, like a summit
, april 15th in Paris.
And then we just had anotherevent in June 23rd in really in
collaboration with AWS, in theiroffice, and I later got to go
(24:03):
to their builder studio, whichwas nothing short of I mean, I
think, in builder studio, goingback to listening and not
talking, I think I just tooknotes the whole time and some of
them it's like the quietestyou've been.
I'm like I said I'm justingesting so much.
All at the same time, I said Iwant to kind of have like a
coherent right you know ahamoment, because like the aha was
(24:26):
coming like every 30 seconds.
And so I go back on thatperspective in terms of core
site, really is founded inresearch.
We then moved into advisorybecause that seemed like the
next natural step, which thentook us into innovator
intelligence, which then took usinto the AI council.
But at the heart and soul of it, we really want to help
retailers, brands.
(24:47):
We've been working with morehealthcare and financial
services companies as of late.
That's kind of the journeywe've been on.
That's how we've gotten towhere we are and I can't wait to
see what's ahead.
Rich (24:56):
So, Deb, just a real quick question.
Obviously, CoreSight hasexpanded.
You've got your finger on thepulse of a lot of the rapid
transformation that is going onin retail today, especially from
a technological perspective,but on many different fronts
around the world.
I'm amazed at your travelschedule.
(25:17):
If I had half your energy Iwould feel great right now.
But as fast as you're runningand as fast as change is
happening and as much as theteam is growing, how do you stop
and make sure that they'refinding balance and that they
are not burning out with asrapidly as things are moving?
Deborah (25:38):
Unfortunately, we had somebody who's definitely like,
very obviously, had been workinga lot of hours and I just I
wasn't sure exactly what to do.
And so the person and I stillto this day, I'm very sad
they're not part of the companyanymore and I was like thinking
about.
I said, like we have to givepeople time off, right, we've.
I didn't realize, actually, howmany people have built the
company for over five years.
It's actually about a third,and so, starting this year, we
(25:59):
started to do mandatorysabbaticals, five weeks.
You Like we don't want youlogging in, we're not locking
people out of the systems, butwe've been pretty blatant in
terms of how much engagement wewant.
And what's been amazing is whenthese people take truly five
weeks off to do what they, youknow, spend time with their
families, they travel andwhatnot.
(26:20):
They read, you know, books thatthey've put off, read books
that they've put off.
When they come back to see howreinvigorated they are and the
ideas that they have in terms ofwhat we can do moving forward.
It's been such a blessing tosee that.
And as we move into 2025, we'vegot a whole other group of
people who and so I want to getthose who've gone on sabbatical
(26:41):
with those who are about to goand talk about what that's meant
for them and how it's kind ofchanged their perspective,
because I've been.
I mean, hey, I probably shouldtake some time off myself, but I
do find it hard.
And that's and one of the lastright from a researcher, one of
our team members was like he'slike I just can't go.
He's like I've got so much todo every day.
(27:03):
He's like I need to help withthis and that.
And I said, well, I said that'swhat we have to figure out is
how to do what we're doingwithout you for five weeks and
for you to also see how you'reliving without us for five weeks
.
And it was amazing.
It's like when you come back,you're like running towards each
other because you're so excitedto see each other.
But I think giving people thatgift because we all love what we
(27:27):
do.
But it's important to alsorealize you know kind of what's
around what we do, like ourfamily and friends, and how
important they are.
Without your health, you havenothing.
I always prioritize that.
Family is second and core siteis third and I'm very specific
as we help people make decisions.
That's the decision tree.
Take care of yourself first,because if you can't take care
of yourself, you can't take careof your family.
Gautham (27:47):
Well, thank you for walking us through the journey
not just of how CoreSight wasbuilt, but how retail has
evolved.
In some ways, One of my petpeeves is build technology for
technology's sake, and you kindof hit that as well.
So, given your vast experiencewith data and data-driven
decision-making, Given your vastexperience with data and
(28:08):
data-driven decision-making,talk us through to how you
advise clients on what, like you, need to have the foundations
correct right Before you canbuild a building.
What are those foundationsbefore you can get to the Gen AI
?
Can you just give us some abrief overview of what you think
are the foundations ofsuccessful retail on which these
technologies can build itself?
Deborah (28:29):
That's a great question .
And just coming back fromDreamforce, where we're talking
AI agents and whatnot andthey're very underpenetrated in
retail.
If you think about it right,with retail, right, most
companies are running on legacysystems.
Their data exists kind ofwithin function.
The challenges are whetheryou're multi-brand or vertically
(28:51):
integrated.
Multi-brand right, you areworking with different customers
and clients, and so you mayhave data sitting with each
customer and client.
If you're vertical, you thenstart to replicate different
aspects of your business, butmaybe in a different way inside
each of those brands.
Where the information is and howit is structured or
(29:11):
unstructured, I think is verychallenging.
But going back to my days atProfitech, we had the same
challenges.
Right, we were building on topof retailers' data sets and, in
some cases, right, we would goin and we would clean their data
for six, 12, 18 months so thatwe could then run our predictive
AI engine on top of that.
(29:31):
I got to see that very early inmy career and see how
challenging it was, but at thesame time, all of the
opportunity, Because if youthink about the millions of data
points these retailers aregetting every day in terms of
how the consumer is behaving,and we're starting to see.
I mean, to me I always thoughtthat they could monetize that,
these alternative revenuestreams, whether it's data or
(29:53):
retail media or other areas.
A lot of that is built on thechallenges in some way that
retailers have had in terms ofgen AI-ing, if you will, their
data, because in some ways it'snot organized in a way that's
really easy and it's going totake time.
I think that the challengesthat retailers face right now in
terms of doing more withtechnology is around either who
(30:17):
in the organization is engaging,and whether that's at the
corporate level or kind of inthe BUs and the business units,
and then thinking about how tokind of move forward with that
and when different techcompanies, especially startups,
sometimes can almost get lost inthe maelstrom because there are
so many different potentialclients within a retailer.
(30:40):
And to me, that's theopportunity on a go forward,
especially with Gen AI, right,because of the speed with which
things can be developed andlearned.
Right.
We now have AI, building AI,and that is just speeding up,
right, I think, the curve interms of what we see around
development.
There are companies we talkedto three months ago who were
talking about building, and I'mlike I was thinking two years
(31:01):
and they built for retail retailand it's purpose built right.
What we're starting to see nowis solutions, purpose built for
retail.
Pricing is such a great example,which we talked about earlier.
You know we're seeing a lotaround.
You know dynamic pricing, butalso just thinking about pricing
as a core competency for retail, which I don't think that they
had thought about before.
(31:22):
So I think retailers areunderstanding and brands how
much more opportunity they haveto drive their business to
reduce returns, to improveprofitability.
And I would say a change inwhat we're hearing is around ROI
Everything they do now, butthey're happy to spend money to
learn more about their businessso they can make better
(31:42):
decisions, and they're lookingat ROI in a very different way.
So the way that retailers areengaging with technology, I
would say, has changedexponentially in 2024.
And this is one of those thingsas you predict what it looks
like going forward.
Going back to my comment aroundSalesforce is very
underpenetrated with retailbecause first you have to get
the data organized in a way thatthese systems can utilize it
(32:03):
and then you have to go back andtrain the retailers on what to
do with all of that data.
And having that complete 360,that's a commitment on a
different level.
And I think those technologysolutions and those that have
yet to be created, those who canstart to and you have to right,
I mean, gautam, you and I haveseen you have to speak retail
and and many of the right andand understanding what their
(32:27):
challenges are, that, I think,is a challenge unto itself so
you can also talk to them intheir own words.
And some of these startups, Imean you know, you see them day
one and they've got that figuredout.
It's unbelievable to see howhigh they can fly.
I mean a great example wasPredict Spring, which was just
acquired by Salesforce.
I mean we worked with Nitinfrom almost day one.
(32:47):
He spoke retail and he askedquestions in a way that if he
didn't understand what theretailers were saying or what
they were telling, right, and hepivoted and pivoted and pivoted
to the point that right, likehe was always kind of at the
right place at the right time.
I think he's such a greatexample.
But all four of us have so manyof those great stories and I
have to say it all goes back tolistening right.
Gautham (33:09):
Yeah, and building on your purpose, right, I think you
hit the nail on the head isthat you can't take off-shelf
white-label solutions and justdeploy it in retail.
You have to know the customeras well as the other
stakeholders.
So, talking about customers,you talked about working in
Tokyo, shanghai and Seoul Koreaprobably one of the bleeding
(33:30):
edge of innovation, if you willand you have a weekly survey
that compares the US to China.
Talk to us about thosedifferences and what drives that
innovation engine in thesecountries.
Deborah (33:43):
Nobody's actually asked that question quite that way.
That's a really great, I mean.
And we'll maybe just start bygeography.
So if we look at Japan, youknow, and we've seen amazing
breakthroughs in robotics.
We're now seeing NLP around theOlympics right natural language
processing, which is right, thefoundation of these large
language models.
And we're starting to see, youknow, with longevity we had
(34:05):
actually written a bunch on gosh.
It might have been back in 2015, 2016,.
We did a lot of work in greaterChina and in Japan around aging
and for us at Coresight, youknow, with Coresight now, to
understand what that means.
I think Japan has an early, youknow, just because of their
population base, they've startedto see, right, from a cognitive
(34:29):
perspective and some of theother challenges, how to build
technology for that consumerultimately, and because they, I
think, have a, they ultimatelydo focus on the there's a real
customer focus, I find andpracticality.
So they're building things tosolve a problem that exists
(34:51):
today, there's, and they holddeadlines kind of very
sacrosanct.
So they make their deadlines.
They're building practical techand if you think about the fact
right, where they haveliterally thousands of engineers
who are being repurposed almostright, from building TVs to
(35:12):
building robotics, building NLPright, and so I think this idea
that you have a significant partof your workforce which is used
to kind of being at thebleeding edge and is also very
comfortable, kind of changingwhat they're doing, and also
we've brought a lot of retailersto Japan.
You know there's a real respectwhen someone's traveling to see
(35:33):
the customer and spending trulyas much time as needed to
explain literally everything tothe retailer brand.
So I think that's really theirsuperpower.
If we start to look at Korea, Iremember some of the tech that
we were seeing there, and on thefashion side too, right
Understanding, being able to doalmost trend analysis and
(35:56):
projecting that forward to buildwhat the customer doesn't even
know that they yet desire, buthitting the nail on the head
over and over and over thatpredictive aspect almost of AI.
And then, secondly, reallyunderstanding that the consumer
does not want friction.
And what can you build to takethe friction out of their their
(36:17):
day to day?
I was recently with someexecutives from Samsung of their
their day to day.
I was recently with someexecutives from Samsung and I it
was like one of those like Ijust felt like I could probably
have stayed another two days toask them questions.
I was asking about how theytrain people who are US based on
understanding the culture ofthe company, and they talked
about having executives evencome and live in Korea to
(36:39):
understand the foundation of thecompany and how that has really
allowed them to accelerate manydifferent technologies,
solutions and ways of working.
What we see there is kind oftaking data and looking at the
predictive nature of it to buildbetter outcomes and
(37:00):
understanding the consumer.
So I think this realunderstanding the consumer and
that this frictionless kind ofgo forward.
So that's how I look to Korea.
And then in greater China, thisidea that you're encouraged to
ask questions across all levelslike why, how, and that has
(37:20):
really kind of pushed forward alot of the tech build.
You know, I was fortunateenough to start to spend a
significant amount of time therein the very early days of
Tencent, jd, alibaba, the veryearly like Double Eleven
festivals and whatnot.
And you know, if you, if we canwrap our minds around PDD,
(37:41):
which is, you know, also Timu,right, that was found.
That was that IPO in 2018.
I remember reading the S1 andit was like Disney world meets
Costco and I'm like, how isDisney world meeting Costco?
Right, like, but, but they wereexplaining it ways that, like,
all of us could like, very muchunderstand.
And I think this open innovationecosystem, where you're asking
(38:02):
questions and they're respondingwith tech build in this very
short period of time, is trulyand I think that there, from
thinking about the consumer,it's thinking about speed.
How do we get things to theconsumer faster?
How do we make decisions faster?
Because this understanding, Ithink in China, that
(38:23):
inefficiency creates waste.
I mean, if you look at greenfinance, if you look at
everything they're doing aroundsustainability, they have the
lowest return rate of any kindof major economy through live
streaming.
And so, as you start to thinkabout some of these technologies
and yes, they're fun and it'sgreat to engage but ultimately,
about some of these technologies, and yes, they're fun and it's
great to engage, but ultimatelyyou're getting more information
(38:44):
to the consumer so they can makea better decision on what they
purchase.
As a result, they don't return.
So I've always felt that therewas this very interesting.
Whether it was they were awareor it was just kind of part of
their DNA, there was asustainability aspect to what's
been built technologically forretail.
And then there's just thisspeed and this iteration and I
(39:07):
feel that those two tenets ofthe landscape there and maybe
the third is just beingcomfortable.
You can always ask why You'renever going to.
Nobody's ever going to notanswer your question and I think
that that's allowed the speedthat we've seen there.
So very different aspects ofgrowth in all those markets, all
very unique, and I think thatit has, you know, kind of driven
(39:28):
a lot of the foundation thatwe're seeing in terms of, you
know, technology and you knowkind of purpose-built solutions.
So great question, thanks.
Gautham (39:35):
Let me ask you just a quick follow-up to follow up to
that right.
You talked about necessity,talked about the culture.
Part of the culture is alsoyour orientation short-term
versus long-term.
Do you think there is a moresteeper pressure for short-term
metrics here in the US, roibeing quicker, in contrast to
(39:57):
some of these other countrieswhere you're given a longer
runway?
Deborah (40:01):
Absolutely.
I always thought that that wasthe benefit and the curse of
Wall Street.
Right, because you're beingmeasured quarterly.
If we start to look at some ofthese larger right, these brand
management companies or whateveryou want to call them, right,
like the WHPs, the ABGs and youknow, we can even put you know,
randa and Centric and manyothers who are starting to take
(40:21):
these companies private, I thinkbeing out of the limelight of,
like, reporting quarterlyearnings and being on that like
hamster wheel.
I will say, when I left WallStreet and ultimately right,
liam Fong, right, we owned manyretail brands and I worked I
really started to understandstores.
Right at the time we had like10,000 stores in China.
I really started to understandstores.
(40:42):
Right At the time we had like10,000 stores in China, and so
what I thought could get done inthe time period that we were
expecting from a Wall Streetperspective was just not humanly
possible.
Those people who are writingthe narrative versus those who
are creating the narrative.
The gap in time is truly immense, and that's why no retailer is
ever going to measure up toanybody's yardstick.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.
That's why no retailer is evergoing to measure up to anybody's
(41:04):
yardstick.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.
This like short term naturearound publicly traded companies
.
I think private we've seen havehad a lot of success for a lot
of reasons.
But I think that what you saidis a very important aspect,
especially in retail, becauseretail transformation takes time
, because, right, retailtransformation takes time.
I think that this is such acritical aspect and probably one
of the reasons we've seen thelandscape change as much as we
(41:26):
have in the US in terms of, youknow, the balance of private and
public companies.
It's a great question.
Rich (41:31):
So, debra, before we head into the rapid fire round, we
met back when you were coveringJCPenney I was at JCPenney and
when Mike Ullman was at the helm.
I realized more and more today,especially with his passing,
how many lessons I've kind ofabsorbed from him and how much I
(41:52):
learned from him, not relyingon his ego, but explaining how
he didn't do something right andwould guide us down a path of
how we could do it better.
You had the opportunity to workwith him.
I'm curious as to what yourinteraction was.
Deborah (42:10):
I remember he had endless patience and as a Wall
Street analyst, right, you woulddo marketing.
So, you know, literally yourday would start at 8 am.
You do a meeting from 8 to 9.
You'd have a 30 minute windowto travel to the next meeting,
which would be 9.30 to 10.30,and so on and so forth.
Sometimes, you know, maybeyou'd even have an earlier
breakfast meeting.
You'd have a lunch meetingSometimes lunch was like you
know, 50 or 60 people and thenyou'd have a dinner meeting.
(42:31):
So, you know, going back to thiskind of question that got him
that ask about, right, you know,kind of short term, long term,
around how he looked at thefuture of things and why some of
(42:54):
the decisions he made he lookedat as being kind of table
stakes and never kind of digginginto a decision that may have
been the street looked at asless than stellar or whatnot,
but basically like this is why Imade this decision at this time
, with this information that Ihad available.
And I think this endlesspatience, right, I mean you saw
(43:15):
it in his personal life as well.
Right, he was one of the mostphilanthropic people I know.
Right, he had adopted a bunchof amazing children.
I mean just like he didn't justand that was the other thing he
didn't just talk the talk, hewalked it as well.
He very much cared aboutassociates, he really cared
about customers.
He cared about people, like hewas people first and I think
(43:37):
because of that right likeseeing that in a mentor, right
like going back to like I wouldask him questions about you know
, how do you make this decision,or how do you see the future of
this, and he would spend timeanswering that and was I mean,
his analysts were trained to aska lot of questions and it just
got to the point like I almostran out of questions to ask
because he had done such anamazingly thorough job of
(43:58):
answering them and helping methink differently and almost
encouraging it and probably, youknow, for somebody to really
encourage you to step outside ofyour comfort zone, especially
on Wall Street, where you mightget, you know, 30 lashes with a
wet noodle if you're wrong.
He really encouraged me, evenif he disagreed with how I
thought about things.
He's like you should go outwith that right.
(44:21):
Like you should not, don't holdback Having someone give you
almost like that cape for you tobe able to fly.
I felt like Mike did that notonly for me but for so many
people and he's very much missed.
But he really left a legacy,not only in terms of his
philanthropic endeavors but also, I think, in terms of all the
people, rich like you and me,who he helped kind of train for
(44:41):
tomorrow, and so're right.
The patience and every storywas.
Rich (45:03):
I did this.
This is where I stumbled, thisis what I learned and when he
passed, I sent a note to my bossbecause I have a tendency to
send my boss notes every Sunday,and I learned that from Mike
because he talked about how heused to send.
He used to write down his noteson Sunday and send them out to
people and he wasn't sure ifpeople were listening, but he
said those types ofcommunications matter.
Deborah (45:25):
I remember him saying you know, there were some
Fridays like we would just westarted this like Friday See,
I'm sure we had some great namefor it but it was like a Friday
call with CEOs.
And I remember one of theFridays he and I stayed on after
the call and he said, oh, hesaid I, you know, he's like I'd
love to get your feedback on afew things and he's like I want
to include those in my notesthat I'm sending out this week.
(45:46):
And he told me how he just thiswas like a discipline for
himself and how it like gave himbecause he said he could go
back and read his notes from theprior week what he was very
transparent.
So it's a good thing for all ofus probably to do internally,
and especially now in a remotehybrid world, being able to have
(46:08):
that communication with yourteams.
I mean, it's probably a greatlearning from Mike.
Rich (46:12):
All right, so I'm going to kick off the relatable rapid
fire round.
First question you've traveledworldwide.
You can transport yourselfright now, 24 hours, one place.
Get there instantly, come backinstantly.
Where do you go?
What do you do?
Deborah (46:29):
I go to Lagos.
We have a team there.
They have truly helped me thinkoutside of my boundaries of
what's possible.
We have an office and there'san energy that I want to capture
for myself that I see in thatmarket of like what's possible.
I remember we did, we do thesecall course.
(46:51):
I connect.
It's an internal call everyThursday and when people talk
about like sometimes it getsvery mushy and sometimes very
just much more about some of theresearch we've been publishing.
We had someone on our teamtalking about like how he likes
to spend his free time and Ijust like I literally was like
I'm like I love my job so muchbecause I can really feel what
he's talking about and Iunderstand why he has this
passion in his work.
(47:12):
Because he has all this passionin some of the things he's
doing and kind of his you knowlife away from work.
So I would go to Lagos, thatwould be my call.
Gautham (47:20):
All right, so it's my turn.
Since you said you love yourjob, what part of your job would
you automate away?
Deborah (47:26):
Email email.
I do that.
I find that and I have to behonest.
I mean this is one of thosewhere we should get a few folks
together.
If I could AI away my emailwhich I'm sure we probably can't
I mean, I feel we probably willbe able to in like 12 months
right, I can have my own like AIagent to answering my email and
my voice, and I'd like give ita rules around, kind of how to
(47:49):
answer these kinds of emails andthen it's like elevating the
ones that it can't answer.
I would love to AI away myemail, yeah.
Rich (47:58):
I think that's a fairly common answer.
Last one I've seen you speakseveral times in several
different settings, and I don'tknow if you have one.
But do you have a walk-on song?
Or, if not, is there aparticular song that kind of
hypes you up when you need it?
Deborah (48:15):
It's so funny.
So I love all kinds of musicand I mean, all right, I started
my life in classical.
I mean when I live in Chicago,a lot of my friends love country
music.
I mean I learned to dance, Imean it was like I literally any
kind of music I find that Iwill.
I mean I couldn't be listeningto anything from like a cello
(48:35):
concerto to like truly like likeheavy metal or heavy rap, I
mean anything that likeliterally all kinds of music,
and I am sure I listen to thingspeople would never expect that
I would be listening to.
So I truly love all music and,depending on the day of the week
, right, it's like a differentwalk-on song, and so I think
that is, you know, that's also.
(48:58):
I really want to.
If you will champion, you knowthat's also, and I, I really
want to.
If you will champion, you knowthe, the current artist who is,
you know, maybe they they'vegotten one song out I want to
champion those who are buildingtheir careers, and so that's
kind of also where I always leaninto as well.
Rich (49:15):
Thank you very much, debra .
It is an absolute uh it was anabsolute pleasure to have the
conversation.
We've been looking forward toit.
I know our students are goingto look forward to it and you
are truly one of those that Icould listen to and talk to for
hours, because I come away fromevery conversation a little
smarter, challenged, inspiredand have three more things on my
(49:38):
list.
Deborah (49:38):
I appreciate that.
I thought that, so I actuallyreally did put a lot of.
I had not thought about theissue I'd had back in tax
accounting, because I think itwas such a painful moment Taking
that off the shelf.
It was amazing All these moonslater how painful that was, and
I will say, like, leaning intothat though and thinking about
how that changed I don't I meanI don't know if I'd ever even
(50:00):
thought about it how thatchanged.
Honestly, everything I didafter that it could have gone a
different way.
Right, I could have like gonein the bathroom and like cried
my eyes out and like gone backto my office.
Those are the things I actuallyseek a lot of advice on, where
there's something that didn't gothe way I'd hoped it would, and
you know, having knowing I meanyou know both of you guys I
mean being able to.
I mean I think that's the onething you can give advice to
(50:21):
your students.
I think sometimes, picking upthe phone and really talking to
people about challenges you'rehaving and seeking advice, as
opposed to like on, you know, inlike an open forum, having that
one-to-one, I think is really ahuge opportunity and will
change their careers.
It's a skill right, like that'sa skill to be built along with
studying and whatnot.
So careers it's a skill, right,like that's a skill to be built
(50:42):
along with studying and whatnot.
So I think what you guys aredoing is amazing.
I mean, you're building, right,the superstars of tomorrow, and
you know anything I can do tohelp?
I'm here.
Today's guest on Retail Relates is Deborah Weinswig,
Founder and CEO of CoresightResearch Inc.
She leads the team to provideactionable insights and
solutions for retailers andbrands that accelerate
innovation and growth in thefast-changing retail and
technology landscape.
Previously, she served asManaging Director of Fung Global
Retail and Technology FGRT, thethink tank of Fung Group.
(00:22):
Previously, she was mandirector and head of the global
staples and consumerdiscretionary team at Citi
Research.
Deborah has been a trustedthought leader at the crossroads
of technology, finance andretail for nearly two decades.
As a leading analyst andstrategist, debra has deep
expertise in AI, metaverse,china live streaming, retail
(00:42):
media, supply chain, commercialreal estate and data
monetization.
In 2023, Deborah conceptualizedand launched the first AI
council for the retail industry.
Deborah is a bestselling authorand a board member of several
prominent retail and technologycompanies and several charitable
organizations.
A member of the prestigiousLinkedIn Top Voices program,
Deborah is recognized as one ofthe top retail influencers in
(01:04):
the world and has receivedmultiple awards and honors for
her industry leadership andimpact.
Deb's been invited to share herinsights and core site research
data at over 200 events acrossthe world, including the
Consumer Electronics Show, shopTalk, world Retail Congress, nrf
, icsc, money 2020, retailInnovation Conference and Expo
(01:25):
Future Store Summit.
Nacds.
Total Retail Tech Grocery Shop.
Women in Retail, nacs.
Deborah, we are so excited tohave you join us at Retail
Relates.
Welcome to the podcast.
We want to get to know you alittle bit, so, instead of
asking you the standardquestions of you know, tell me
about yourself.
Your bio is going to be in theshow notes, but tell me what
(01:47):
were the three pivotal momentsin either your professional or
personal career.
Deborah (01:52):
You know it's interesting because I think back
to kind of what were some ofthe things that helped define
kind of who I am and what I do.
So one growing up in our homewe had like a tiny little 13
inch black and white and thatwas it.
We had no TV, and so we hadreally deep dives at the dinner
(02:13):
table.
My mother had a financebackground and worked at PepsiCo
and my father was a real rocketscientist and worked at ITT in
aerospace and aeronautical, andso we really talked about very
academic topics and went deepand everybody at the dinner
table had an equal kind of partin the conversation and so in
some ways you almost felt likeyou had to do your homework,
(02:34):
research, before you got to thedinner table.
Why I bring that up is that asI progressed throughout my
career, I thought I wanted to bea doctor, couldn't stand the
sight of blood, but onlyrealized that after going to
school for pre-med and I waslike I love numbers right, I'll
go into accounting becausethat's numbers and so that was
probably about as much thoughtas I put into it and I did love
(02:56):
it.
The practice of it was muchdifferent than theoretical.
I probably would have enjoyedlike a PhD in accounting.
But in terms of the practicingaccounting, I ended up going to
PWC, and so you go to job sitesfor six, eight, 12 weeks.
You know you have lunch withnew people all the time, and
when people didn't know eachother, they talk about what they
watch on TV.
But I would have nothing totalk about because I didn't
(03:17):
watch TV.
And so I would work throughlunch and you know, my bosses
were always like oh, you're sucha hard worker.
So I got promoted very early,but it was interesting kind of
appearance.
I was also very early onsomebody who had a cell phone.
So if I was going to beliterally two minutes late, I
would call my manager.
And they were like you know,other people will be late,
they're not calling because theydon't have cell phones.
(03:38):
And so it was interesting kindof what really mattered.
And I thought about this a lotprofessionally right, I would
tell people if I was going to bea minute late, let's say on the
innovation edge.
I was one of the only peoplewho was doing that.
And then, secondly, thisappearance at least, and, yes,
did I work through lunch?
Because I would be sittingthere talking to myself if I
wasn't.
That is what helped mebasically get through where most
(03:59):
people got in three years and ayear and a half.
It really kind of stayed withme throughout my career and so I
would say, sometimes thefoundations of what you do at
home you don't realize, kind of,how they impact you and you
don't know where they impact you.
So that was one.
Secondly, I played the violingrowing up.
Now the reason I played theviolin is my brother played the
violin and I would see myparents pay all this attention
(04:22):
to him every day and I'm like,oh, I got to play the violin.
We learned in the Suzuki method, right, because we were very
young and you can't read or wecouldn't read music.
And the Suzuki method is aboutlistening and so because of that
, right in conversations, Iremember almost word for word
what people say, and it's alsoone of the reasons I've been so
comfortable in other geographies, because I can really
(04:47):
understand what people aresaying and learn languages
fairly quickly.
And so this idea aboutlistening is, I think, really
important, because so manypeople are thinking about what
they're going to say next, thatthey're talking over you, as
opposed to listening to whatyou're saying and, as an analyst
, remembering thoseconversations, writing things
(05:07):
down.
We all record everything likewe're recording this.
But I do think the second forme was playing the violin.
And then the third was my motherwas an early professional in
finance and a female.
I looked up to her amazinglyand she gave me pieces of advice
that I don't even know if sheknew she was passing them along.
(05:28):
But she's like never say no,you don't want to hurt people's
feelings.
And maybe at the point in timewhere they're asking you, she's
like say maybe, and if someone'stalking about something and you
really truly don't know what tosay or you're really not, it's
not something.
She's like just say that's sointeresting, but this idea that
you're positive and you'reupbeat and you're constructive,
(05:50):
you're not committing to thingsthat you're not going to do.
Then she said, right, nevertell a white lie because you
can't remember them and you wantto.
She said say like what youthink without hurting someone's
feelings, but in a way that theyunderstand that you are either
committing or not committing,and so some of those things
(06:11):
right very early in my childhood, and I don't even think she
realized she was like spittingoff these pearls of wisdom
Really from like my first job.
I actually had a paper routewhen I was 10, as we did those
days and my brother and I did ittogether, we were actually the
paper people.
We won this kind of big awardand I mean my father, like his
heart was like bursting throughhis chest with pride.
(06:31):
But going back to right, if wewere late, we apologized.
We just addressed things in away that was, I think, people
were surprised and we were veryyoung kids.
My dad would, like he's dealingwith papers super early in the
morning and my father would sitoutside.
And we didn't.
I don't think we thought aboutit, but my dad was getting up,
he had a full day of work.
I mean not that we didn't havea full day of school, but he was
(06:51):
getting up at 5am every day towatch us deliver newspapers so
that he was comfortable with usdoing it.
We learned about, you know,taking a lot of the principles
that we learned at home and thenapplying them into the real
world and so taking those earlylearnings.
Not much has changed in termsof how one engages with clients,
(07:13):
with friends, with colleagues,right, being open, honest,
committing when it makes senseand being really careful about
people's feelings.
I mean, those are things thatI've always embodied, so I'd say
a lot of what I learned veryearly on in life was really
pivotal to where I ended up andwhat I enjoyed and what I still,
today, focus on.
Paula (07:33):
That's a beautiful tapestry there that you painted
for us.
Thank you for taking us on thatjourney and through all of that
you know you've had to takerisks, you've gotten out of your
comfort zone, you've had to gofor challenges and we know that
some of your successes from yourbio.
Is there a particular failurethat stands out to you that
(07:53):
you'd like to share?
Deborah (07:55):
So my first job was at PwC.
There's actually I'm going toanswer that, but I'm going to
answer something before that.
So, going back to listening, Ihad interned there.
I really enjoyed it.
Like every day I get to show upwith like 18 other people and
we're working, but we're talkingthe whole time and we're eating
the whole time.
I'm like this is so fun, right,and they bring in food for us.
I was like this is this is thegreatest job ever and we and and
(08:16):
we were learning.
We were learning about so manydifferent companies in depth,
really in terms of research.
That was like some of thefoundation.
So I wanted to because, shootfor the moon, why not?
There was one kind of extra orspecial aspect of what we could
do where it was a tax audit.
You're spending six months intax and six months in audit and
(08:36):
you were becoming, you know,very skilled across kind of the
accounting, if you will, phenom.
And so I applied for this.
There are only two spots out oflike an opening class of 80.
And I went into the interviewand, unlike other interviews I'd
had, it was like an hour and hejust talked the whole time.
I think he asked me like one ortwo very quick questions and I
(08:58):
walked out there.
I remember calling my parentsand I'm like I didn't get it.
I said I didn't get to sayanything.
I said I just listened and myfather's like that's, he's like
maybe they've already made uptheir mind that they're going to
go one way or another, and sohe said, just wait.
And I did actually get the job.
I did get this amazingopportunity and it goes back to
right for me.
I was like it was another kindof point around listening, not
(09:21):
worrying about what you weregoing to say next.
And I bring that forwardbecause I ended up in this tax
audit rotation the first time.
I did it.
Right, I had just come off of anaudit busy season.
I mean, you're working, I'm ahard worker, but it was like 100
, 120 hours a week, right everyweek, and I was still new in the
professional world and so,right, you're taking everything
with a different level of, Ithink, concern and respect.
(09:45):
And I went right into a taxbusy season and so I didn't
realize, when people come to you, can you do this?
Of course I can do this right,no problem.
And so they give you work andthey give you work and they give
you work and soon I had theequivalent of like almost over
200 hours a week of work that Ihad said yes to going back to
being careful what you commit to.
And I didn't realize.
Because I just didn'tunderstand, because my whole
(10:07):
thing was like, oh my gosh, Iwant to get to the end, I don't
have any work.
And so I failed.
I disappointed people.
I had one of the most seniorpeople in the tax department
basically berate me and Iremember going into the bathroom
, just closing the door, justtaking a moment and closing my
eyes and just thinking aboutlike what is the right thing to
do in this circumstance.
I didn't understand, but I alsoshould have asked more
(10:30):
questions along the way.
So I came out and I that pointin time people had doors that
opened doors.
So I walked into her office,this very senior professional,
and I said I apologize.
I said I don't think Iunderstood the impact of my
actions and I was just very, youknow, there was no tears or
anything.
I said I don't think Iunderstood the impact of my
actions and I was just very, youknow, there was no tears or
(10:51):
anything.
I was just very pragmatic onhow I'd gotten here and some of
the mistakes I made along theway, and she, like she ended up
taking me under her wing andmentoring me, because she's like
every season, she's likesomebody does exactly what I did
, but nobody had ever come intoher office and apologized and
asked for guidance and kind ofexplained how they'd gotten
there.
And so I think that not beingafraid to like lean into failure
and understand what it was thatgot you there and also
(11:14):
explaining what happened, butmore explaining kind of what
your thought process was, andasking for guidance, because
there were definitely stepsalong the way where my thought
process was incorrect and Iwanted to know, going forward,
how could I correct thosemistakes so I didn't make them
again.
These days, do I getovercommitted?
I really try not to, because itgoes back to and this is what
(11:36):
she did, I mean, many moons agoput everything on the calendar,
review your calendar every day,have a to-do list.
The to-do list seems to begetting too long, right, reach
out and tell people, and so Iwould say that a lot of what.
I'm very fortunate.
I had great mentors and Isought them out right.
I've always sought out mentorsand there's somebody I have
right now.
I call him every Friday at 1230.
(11:57):
And basically he's like I can'tbelieve you did this and you
did this.
And I'm like please tell me,like how you have looked at this
.
Where did I have like a gap inmy perception or understanding?
And having that person and he'sa friend, I've paid coaches
before and whatnot, but I feellike friends guide you in
different ways.
I would say the lesson fromthat was lean into failure,
(12:18):
understand how you got there anddon't be afraid to ask for
advice on how others would havedone things differently.
And I think having a mentor,somebody in your life, I think
outside of your family, you guysare going to hear about your
work, enough anyways.
I found that that has helped mekind of throughout the years
and I continue to do that.
Rich (12:36):
I think I'll probably put that on a small clip and remind
myself of it from time to time.
I'm going to transition intothe lesson part of it and turn
it over to Gautham in a minute,but I want to give you a couple
minutes to talk about core siteresearch.
Gautam is mentoring me when itcomes to me trying to be an
adjunct and I smile every time Isee research that is attributed
(13:01):
to core site research and say Iknow where this is coming from,
but not everybody who listensis going to know what CoreSight
Research is and what you-.
Deborah (13:10):
I appreciate the opportunity.
It's really interesting we hadwhen I was part of Liam Fung, so
I'll talk about how we got here.
But we used to have, as we werespinning out and we had already
kind of announced our name, wehad one of our senior executives
.
He's like Debra could not havepicked a better name for the
company because she really sheand her team are really our core
insights and it's funny Ihadn't even really thought about
(13:33):
that just true truth about whenwe chose a name, but it really
has stuck.
So I started off going back toright, like my kind days.
I love numbers.
I loved understanding what wasaround the number right.
That's what you know kind ofvery typical audit does at a you
know one of the larger firmsand seeing all these different
challenges, I and I love to tellthe stories and that, once
(13:56):
again, that's what I did.
You, you told the storiesaround the number right.
Why did this number change thismuch year over year?
And we would look across right,the income statement, balance
sheet, cash flow, what could youtie into some of those changes
and what were some of the themesthat we were going to take out
of that audit?
I really loved that part of it.
I think that as I went tobusiness school, I had a unique
(14:18):
opportunity to audit aninsurance company and they have
very complex financialinstruments and there was one in
particular I found just like mymind loved and I became an
expert in this and it was reallydetailed.
I think this idea aroundcomplexity and numbers.
When I went to business school,I thought I wanted to be a
basically a portfolio manager inan insurance company and what I
(14:41):
found is just I love the numberaspect and I'd never even heard
of research as a career becausethere are so few research
analysts right Each firm.
I mean I went to Morgan Stanley.
We hired four people in the USthat year.
I was very fortunate to startMorgan Stanley.
I started off in globalstrategy and had this amazing
(15:02):
career working with unbelievablepeople.
I mean, my first week I'msitting down with Barton Biggs
and Byron Ween and I mean justeating up everything they're
saying and trying to understandhow they built their thesis and
what was it right and becausethey were always early and
whether they were right or wrong, they helped people make better
decisions, because you got tosee kind of both sides of it and
(15:25):
so, as I you know, kind ofspent almost a decade at
Citigroup and ended up leadingthe global consumer staples and
discretionary teams and thinkingabout making it through the
global financial crisis, whichwas probably the most difficult
part of my career.
And so making it through thatand starting to think about what
(15:46):
I loved.
I loved innovation.
I loved understanding what thenumbers like to, to improve the
numbers, what you needed to doand how to take kind of what you
understood to be true versuswhat you thought could be, and
having numbers tell that storyin between.
And so there was an Israelitech startup called Profitech
(16:07):
and I thought the CEO was great.
He always explained everythingin ways that I could really
understand it, and so I was veryopen with him one day and I
said I'm just thinking aboutwhat's next and he's like well,
we're looking for a chiefcustomer officer.
Mind you, I had no idea whatthat was at the time, because
retailers didn't have chiefchief officers back in 2012,
2013 for the most part, and Iwas like that's what I've wanted
(16:30):
to do my whole life.
And so starting there andstarting to really be in the
heart of tech and innovation andcreation you know this was
early days.
This was more predictive AIright this was before Gen AI and
seeing what we could do.
I mean, we were literallyinvesting entire data sets from
the largest retailers in theworld and then coming to them
with recommendations, which Ididn't look at as being so
(16:50):
different than what I did inaccounting right.
We were ingesting numbers, wewere trying to gather stories,
and I really loved it.
We were acquired actually by acompany that I had known very
well in the tech world.
When I started to think aboutwhat I might want to do next, I
had two opportunities One to goback to Wall Street and I still,
to this day, am veryappreciative of that opportunity
and one to lead a think tankbased in China.
(17:16):
This idea of something new,something kind of undiscovered
and unexplored, really kind ofspoke to what I was interested
in.
So that is the road that I took, and that was with Li and Feng.
They had four public companies,they had VC arms, private
equity arms and much more and tobe able to knit together all of
those data points in theorganization and different
people.
The time I joined, I think wehad about 50,000 employees
(17:36):
scattered in like 41 countries,and I tried to make it to almost
every country to sit down withpeople to understand what they
were seeing.
Sit down with people tounderstand what they were seeing
so that, at the corporate level, we could start to tie together
themes so that we could pointthe company in the right
direction.
We had somebody come to us towrite a report for them and they
(18:00):
were going to pay us what Iconsidered at the time an
unbelievable amount of money.
And so I went to you know myboss, who's the CEO?
And I said you know he's likewell, where you sit at the
corporate level, right, we don'tgenerate revenue, I'm happy for
you to do it.
He's like we just can't.
So it's basically like.
My response was I'm happy to dothe work, I can't take your
money.
And they're like this isamazing, right?
So we wrote this paper.
We then went into three citiesTokyo, shanghai and Seoul, korea
(18:28):
.
We were on stage with thiscompany talking about the
research that we had done, right?
So, going back to taking data,turning them into insights, and
I realized how much I loved itand what had been.
The challenge is, on Wall Street, you're measured every day,
right, the number of inboundcalls that you get, the kind of
you know, the ratings that youget from your clients.
You know we all focused oninstitutional investor.
I missed that, right, like Imissed this idea that I knew I
(18:48):
was doing a good job.
So I started to lean into thatand I went back to our CEO and
so we figured out a way that wecould start to do more in this
area.
He and I both ultimatelyrealized right with the cost of
the team and we were just a costcenter that maybe it made sense
for us to spin out and then wecould start to generate revenue,
cover our costs and stillprovide services to them.
So that's what we did.
(19:08):
That's what CoreSight is today.
So a long background, but, Ithink, an important one.
But ultimately, we're based ondata.
We have over a decade ofproprietary data.
In late 2019, as we werestarting to see things change,
we decided to do a weekly surveyof the US consumer and the
Chinese consumer publish thoseresults every week.
(19:29):
So you're talking five yearsnow of data and we've gone and
backtested it.
It's 98% predictive, which Ithink has blown even our minds
in terms of what the consumer isgoing to do based on what the
data says and I think our wholeteam right we get really excited
about this right.
We really geek out on this andyou know we've done a lot of
work around store openings andclosings.
Where are those stores locatedthat have closed?
(19:50):
Because a lot of these D2Ccompanies, as they've looked to
take down their customeracquisition costs and move
offline stores and locationsaren't necessarily easy to
locate, and so that's beenanother really interesting way
to take data and have an impactand so much more.
But the core of what we do issubscription research.
We have a global team.
We're nine countries on fourcontinents.
(20:11):
We try to look at things bothby verticals and what we do is
really retail only.
So that's how we differentiateourselves versus other research
firms, and I always say we'recomplementary, because we look
at things from a very specificlens.
Others have their own lens andwhen you put all of us together,
I think you get a more completepicture.
Ultimately, I want clients orpotential clients to have access
(20:34):
to the information they need,and then you know we can come in
and do a special project orsomething like that.
So we have subscriptionresearch.
That's the core, and off ofthat we've built an advisory
practice.
I'm doing anything from likemajor strategy projects, which I
find that my learning isexponential.
I typically am there at thebeginning, the middle and the
end because I do a lot of publicspeaking.
I'm very and we have a lot ofclients in financial services.
(20:54):
I'm very careful about my ownacquisition of material,
non-public information, but wehave an unbelievable advisory
team and we've done actuallyit's been interesting, just to
say it We've done a lot ofpricing work recently which I
find with like like for us.
You start to see very earlyright where these new
technologies, like Gen AI, wherethey're having an impact,
because we're starting to getinbounds from you know, the
(21:15):
C-suite on different things thatthey'd like to figure out and
almost right, single point,right, we'll come in, we'll do
these.
We call them sprints because wedo them very quickly right In
six weeks, eight weeks tops, andso we'll go and we'll tackle a
topic you know we'd love to dothat under kind of like a bigger
strategy project.
However, we kind of engage withfolks where we're excited and
(21:36):
then, off of the kind ofadvisory side, we've built this,
we call it innovatorintelligence.
But what we often find and wefound this in our advisory work
that tech companies can bechallenged explaining what they
do to the end customer right,because they're talking tech
Retailers, brands or whatnot aretruly talking a language from
(21:56):
the consumer point of view.
Usually we try to understandkind of the unique aspect
because every tech company, evenif, like on paper, it looks
like they're doing similarthings, there are nuances and
one may be a better fit for amulti-brand retailer, one may be
a better fit for luxury, forathletic footwear, for specialty
apparel, and we really try tolisten to that.
(22:17):
But we also help them telltheir stories and, once again,
we use a lot of data to do that.
So we'll do a lot of surveywork and it helps them then tell
their stories, right,no-transcript, and they're like
(22:57):
you have to own AI in retail.
You have to own thisconversation.
It's going to be really bigRight.
It's going to be really bigright, and this was, you know,
kind of let's call it early, youknow, right out of the first
quarter of 2023.
And so I'm now I feel like theweight of the world on my
shoulders because two people inmy world who are very important
have you know, I felt we'releaning into to us to do
(23:20):
something.
I was like, okay, we shouldprobably get people together,
probably in a private setting sothey're comfortable talking
about what is this Gen AI thingand how is this impacting their
business.
And then we've got to figureout a way to pay for you know
kind of our time and we ended uphiring several researchers, so
we brought in sponsors.
We started in August.
Actually, it's funny, we weregoing to have just one opening
(23:41):
meeting but we had so manypeople join us, we had two and
we've gotten together everyother week.
We had a conference.
It was truly unbelievable.
And then, as we moved forward,we hosted another, like a summit
, april 15th in Paris.
And then we just had anotherevent in June 23rd in really in
collaboration with AWS, in theiroffice, and I later got to go
(24:03):
to their builder studio, whichwas nothing short of I mean, I
think, in builder studio, goingback to listening and not
talking, I think I just tooknotes the whole time and some of
them it's like the quietestyou've been.
I'm like I said I'm justingesting so much.
All at the same time, I said Iwant to kind of have like a
coherent right you know ahamoment, because like the aha was
(24:26):
coming like every 30 seconds.
And so I go back on thatperspective in terms of core
site, really is founded inresearch.
We then moved into advisorybecause that seemed like the
next natural step, which thentook us into innovator
intelligence, which then took usinto the AI council.
But at the heart and soul of it, we really want to help
retailers, brands.
(24:47):
We've been working with morehealthcare and financial
services companies as of late.
That's kind of the journeywe've been on.
That's how we've gotten towhere we are and I can't wait to
see what's ahead.
Rich (24:56):
So, Deb, just a real quick question.
Obviously, CoreSight hasexpanded.
You've got your finger on thepulse of a lot of the rapid
transformation that is going onin retail today, especially from
a technological perspective,but on many different fronts
around the world.
I'm amazed at your travelschedule.
(25:17):
If I had half your energy Iwould feel great right now.
But as fast as you're runningand as fast as change is
happening and as much as theteam is growing, how do you stop
and make sure that they'refinding balance and that they
are not burning out with asrapidly as things are moving?
Deborah (25:38):
Unfortunately, we had somebody who's definitely like,
very obviously, had been workinga lot of hours and I just I
wasn't sure exactly what to do.
And so the person and I stillto this day, I'm very sad
they're not part of the companyanymore and I was like thinking
about.
I said, like we have to givepeople time off, right, we've.
I didn't realize, actually, howmany people have built the
company for over five years.
It's actually about a third,and so, starting this year, we
(25:59):
started to do mandatorysabbaticals, five weeks.
You Like we don't want youlogging in, we're not locking
people out of the systems, butwe've been pretty blatant in
terms of how much engagement wewant.
And what's been amazing is whenthese people take truly five
weeks off to do what they, youknow, spend time with their
families, they travel andwhatnot.
(26:20):
They read, you know, books thatthey've put off, read books
that they've put off.
When they come back to see howreinvigorated they are and the
ideas that they have in terms ofwhat we can do moving forward.
It's been such a blessing tosee that.
And as we move into 2025, we'vegot a whole other group of
people who and so I want to getthose who've gone on sabbatical
(26:41):
with those who are about to goand talk about what that's meant
for them and how it's kind ofchanged their perspective,
because I've been.
I mean, hey, I probably shouldtake some time off myself, but I
do find it hard.
And that's and one of the lastright from a researcher, one of
our team members was like he'slike I just can't go.
He's like I've got so much todo every day.
(27:03):
He's like I need to help withthis and that.
And I said, well, I said that'swhat we have to figure out is
how to do what we're doingwithout you for five weeks and
for you to also see how you'reliving without us for five weeks
.
And it was amazing.
It's like when you come back,you're like running towards each
other because you're so excitedto see each other.
But I think giving people thatgift because we all love what we
(27:27):
do.
But it's important to alsorealize you know kind of what's
around what we do, like ourfamily and friends, and how
important they are.
Without your health, you havenothing.
I always prioritize that.
Family is second and core siteis third and I'm very specific
as we help people make decisions.
That's the decision tree.
Take care of yourself first,because if you can't take care
of yourself, you can't take careof your family.
Gautham (27:47):
Well, thank you for walking us through the journey
not just of how CoreSight wasbuilt, but how retail has
evolved.
In some ways, One of my petpeeves is build technology for
technology's sake, and you kindof hit that as well.
So, given your vast experiencewith data and data-driven
decision-making, Given your vastexperience with data and
(28:08):
data-driven decision-making,talk us through to how you
advise clients on what, like you, need to have the foundations
correct right Before you canbuild a building.
What are those foundationsbefore you can get to the Gen AI
?
Can you just give us some abrief overview of what you think
are the foundations ofsuccessful retail on which these
technologies can build itself?
Deborah (28:29):
That's a great question .
And just coming back fromDreamforce, where we're talking
AI agents and whatnot andthey're very underpenetrated in
retail.
If you think about it right,with retail, right, most
companies are running on legacysystems.
Their data exists kind ofwithin function.
The challenges are whetheryou're multi-brand or vertically
(28:51):
integrated.
Multi-brand right, you areworking with different customers
and clients, and so you mayhave data sitting with each
customer and client.
If you're vertical, you thenstart to replicate different
aspects of your business, butmaybe in a different way inside
each of those brands.
Where the information is and howit is structured or
(29:11):
unstructured, I think is verychallenging.
But going back to my days atProfitech, we had the same
challenges.
Right, we were building on topof retailers' data sets and, in
some cases, right, we would goin and we would clean their data
for six, 12, 18 months so thatwe could then run our predictive
AI engine on top of that.
(29:31):
I got to see that very early inmy career and see how
challenging it was, but at thesame time, all of the
opportunity, Because if youthink about the millions of data
points these retailers aregetting every day in terms of
how the consumer is behaving,and we're starting to see.
I mean, to me I always thoughtthat they could monetize that,
these alternative revenuestreams, whether it's data or
(29:53):
retail media or other areas.
A lot of that is built on thechallenges in some way that
retailers have had in terms ofgen AI-ing, if you will, their
data, because in some ways it'snot organized in a way that's
really easy and it's going totake time.
I think that the challengesthat retailers face right now in
terms of doing more withtechnology is around either who
(30:17):
in the organization is engaging,and whether that's at the
corporate level or kind of inthe BUs and the business units,
and then thinking about how tokind of move forward with that
and when different techcompanies, especially startups,
sometimes can almost get lost inthe maelstrom because there are
so many different potentialclients within a retailer.
(30:40):
And to me, that's theopportunity on a go forward,
especially with Gen AI, right,because of the speed with which
things can be developed andlearned.
Right.
We now have AI, building AI,and that is just speeding up,
right, I think, the curve interms of what we see around
development.
There are companies we talkedto three months ago who were
talking about building, and I'mlike I was thinking two years
(31:01):
and they built for retail retailand it's purpose built right.
What we're starting to see nowis solutions, purpose built for
retail.
Pricing is such a great example,which we talked about earlier.
You know we're seeing a lotaround.
You know dynamic pricing, butalso just thinking about pricing
as a core competency for retail, which I don't think that they
had thought about before.
(31:22):
So I think retailers areunderstanding and brands how
much more opportunity they haveto drive their business to
reduce returns, to improveprofitability.
And I would say a change inwhat we're hearing is around ROI
Everything they do now, butthey're happy to spend money to
learn more about their businessso they can make better
(31:42):
decisions, and they're lookingat ROI in a very different way.
So the way that retailers areengaging with technology, I
would say, has changedexponentially in 2024.
And this is one of those thingsas you predict what it looks
like going forward.
Going back to my comment aroundSalesforce is very
underpenetrated with retailbecause first you have to get
the data organized in a way thatthese systems can utilize it
(32:03):
and then you have to go back andtrain the retailers on what to
do with all of that data.
And having that complete 360,that's a commitment on a
different level.
And I think those technologysolutions and those that have
yet to be created, those who canstart to and you have to right,
I mean, gautam, you and I haveseen you have to speak retail
and and many of the right andand understanding what their
(32:27):
challenges are, that, I think,is a challenge unto itself so
you can also talk to them intheir own words.
And some of these startups, Imean you know, you see them day
one and they've got that figuredout.
It's unbelievable to see howhigh they can fly.
I mean a great example wasPredict Spring, which was just
acquired by Salesforce.
I mean we worked with Nitinfrom almost day one.
(32:47):
He spoke retail and he askedquestions in a way that if he
didn't understand what theretailers were saying or what
they were telling, right, and hepivoted and pivoted and pivoted
to the point that right, likehe was always kind of at the
right place at the right time.
I think he's such a greatexample.
But all four of us have so manyof those great stories and I
have to say it all goes back tolistening right.
Gautham (33:09):
Yeah, and building on your purpose, right, I think you
hit the nail on the head isthat you can't take off-shelf
white-label solutions and justdeploy it in retail.
You have to know the customeras well as the other
stakeholders.
So, talking about customers,you talked about working in
Tokyo, shanghai and Seoul Koreaprobably one of the bleeding
(33:30):
edge of innovation, if you willand you have a weekly survey
that compares the US to China.
Talk to us about thosedifferences and what drives that
innovation engine in thesecountries.
Deborah (33:43):
Nobody's actually asked that question quite that way.
That's a really great, I mean.
And we'll maybe just start bygeography.
So if we look at Japan, youknow, and we've seen amazing
breakthroughs in robotics.
We're now seeing NLP around theOlympics right natural language
processing, which is right, thefoundation of these large
language models.
And we're starting to see, youknow, with longevity we had
(34:05):
actually written a bunch on gosh.
It might have been back in 2015, 2016,.
We did a lot of work in greaterChina and in Japan around aging
and for us at Coresight, youknow, with Coresight now, to
understand what that means.
I think Japan has an early, youknow, just because of their
population base, they've startedto see, right, from a cognitive
(34:29):
perspective and some of theother challenges, how to build
technology for that consumerultimately, and because they, I
think, have a, they ultimatelydo focus on the there's a real
customer focus, I find andpracticality.
So they're building things tosolve a problem that exists
(34:51):
today, there's, and they holddeadlines kind of very
sacrosanct.
So they make their deadlines.
They're building practical techand if you think about the fact
right, where they haveliterally thousands of engineers
who are being repurposed almostright, from building TVs to
(35:12):
building robotics, building NLPright, and so I think this idea
that you have a significant partof your workforce which is used
to kind of being at thebleeding edge and is also very
comfortable, kind of changingwhat they're doing, and also
we've brought a lot of retailersto Japan.
You know there's a real respectwhen someone's traveling to see
(35:33):
the customer and spending trulyas much time as needed to
explain literally everything tothe retailer brand.
So I think that's really theirsuperpower.
If we start to look at Korea, Iremember some of the tech that
we were seeing there, and on thefashion side too, right
Understanding, being able to doalmost trend analysis and
(35:56):
projecting that forward to buildwhat the customer doesn't even
know that they yet desire, buthitting the nail on the head
over and over and over thatpredictive aspect almost of AI.
And then, secondly, reallyunderstanding that the consumer
does not want friction.
And what can you build to takethe friction out of their their
(36:17):
day to day?
I was recently with someexecutives from Samsung of their
their day to day.
I was recently with someexecutives from Samsung and I it
was like one of those like Ijust felt like I could probably
have stayed another two days toask them questions.
I was asking about how theytrain people who are US based on
understanding the culture ofthe company, and they talked
about having executives evencome and live in Korea to
(36:39):
understand the foundation of thecompany and how that has really
allowed them to accelerate manydifferent technologies,
solutions and ways of working.
What we see there is kind oftaking data and looking at the
predictive nature of it to buildbetter outcomes and
(37:00):
understanding the consumer.
So I think this realunderstanding the consumer and
that this frictionless kind ofgo forward.
So that's how I look to Korea.
And then in greater China, thisidea that you're encouraged to
ask questions across all levelslike why, how, and that has
(37:20):
really kind of pushed forward alot of the tech build.
You know, I was fortunateenough to start to spend a
significant amount of time therein the very early days of
Tencent, jd, alibaba, the veryearly like Double Eleven
festivals and whatnot.
And you know, if you, if we canwrap our minds around PDD,
(37:41):
which is, you know, also Timu,right, that was found.
That was that IPO in 2018.
I remember reading the S1 andit was like Disney world meets
Costco and I'm like, how isDisney world meeting Costco?
Right, like, but, but they wereexplaining it ways that, like,
all of us could like, very muchunderstand.
And I think this open innovationecosystem, where you're asking
(38:02):
questions and they're respondingwith tech build in this very
short period of time, is trulyand I think that there, from
thinking about the consumer,it's thinking about speed.
How do we get things to theconsumer faster?
How do we make decisions faster?
Because this understanding, Ithink in China, that
(38:23):
inefficiency creates waste.
I mean, if you look at greenfinance, if you look at
everything they're doing aroundsustainability, they have the
lowest return rate of any kindof major economy through live
streaming.
And so, as you start to thinkabout some of these technologies
and yes, they're fun and it'sgreat to engage but ultimately,
about some of these technologies, and yes, they're fun and it's
great to engage, but ultimatelyyou're getting more information
(38:44):
to the consumer so they can makea better decision on what they
purchase.
As a result, they don't return.
So I've always felt that therewas this very interesting.
Whether it was they were awareor it was just kind of part of
their DNA, there was asustainability aspect to what's
been built technologically forretail.
And then there's just thisspeed and this iteration and I
(39:07):
feel that those two tenets ofthe landscape there and maybe
the third is just beingcomfortable.
You can always ask why You'renever going to.
Nobody's ever going to notanswer your question and I think
that that's allowed the speedthat we've seen there.
So very different aspects ofgrowth in all those markets, all
very unique, and I think thatit has, you know, kind of driven
(39:28):
a lot of the foundation thatwe're seeing in terms of, you
know, technology and you knowkind of purpose-built solutions.
So great question, thanks.
Gautham (39:35):
Let me ask you just a quick follow-up to follow up to
that right.
You talked about necessity,talked about the culture.
Part of the culture is alsoyour orientation short-term
versus long-term.
Do you think there is a moresteeper pressure for short-term
metrics here in the US, roibeing quicker, in contrast to
(39:57):
some of these other countrieswhere you're given a longer
runway?
Deborah (40:01):
Absolutely.
I always thought that that wasthe benefit and the curse of
Wall Street.
Right, because you're beingmeasured quarterly.
If we start to look at some ofthese larger right, these brand
management companies or whateveryou want to call them, right,
like the WHPs, the ABGs and youknow, we can even put you know,
randa and Centric and manyothers who are starting to take
(40:21):
these companies private, I thinkbeing out of the limelight of,
like, reporting quarterlyearnings and being on that like
hamster wheel.
I will say, when I left WallStreet and ultimately right,
liam Fong, right, we owned manyretail brands and I worked I
really started to understandstores.
Right at the time we had like10,000 stores in China.
I really started to understandstores.
(40:42):
Right At the time we had like10,000 stores in China, and so
what I thought could get done inthe time period that we were
expecting from a Wall Streetperspective was just not humanly
possible.
Those people who are writingthe narrative versus those who
are creating the narrative.
The gap in time is truly immense, and that's why no retailer is
ever going to measure up toanybody's yardstick.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.
That's why no retailer is evergoing to measure up to anybody's
(41:04):
yardstick.
So I couldn't agree with youmore.
This like short term naturearound publicly traded companies
.
I think private we've seen havehad a lot of success for a lot
of reasons.
But I think that what you saidis a very important aspect,
especially in retail, becauseretail transformation takes time
, because, right, retailtransformation takes time.
I think that this is such acritical aspect and probably one
of the reasons we've seen thelandscape change as much as we
(41:26):
have in the US in terms of, youknow, the balance of private and
public companies.
It's a great question.
Rich (41:31):
So, debra, before we head into the rapid fire round, we
met back when you were coveringJCPenney I was at JCPenney and
when Mike Ullman was at the helm.
I realized more and more today,especially with his passing,
how many lessons I've kind ofabsorbed from him and how much I
(41:52):
learned from him, not relyingon his ego, but explaining how
he didn't do something right andwould guide us down a path of
how we could do it better.
You had the opportunity to workwith him.
I'm curious as to what yourinteraction was.
Deborah (42:10):
I remember he had endless patience and as a Wall
Street analyst, right, you woulddo marketing.
So, you know, literally yourday would start at 8 am.
You do a meeting from 8 to 9.
You'd have a 30 minute windowto travel to the next meeting,
which would be 9.30 to 10.30,and so on and so forth.
Sometimes, you know, maybeyou'd even have an earlier
breakfast meeting.
You'd have a lunch meetingSometimes lunch was like you
know, 50 or 60 people and thenyou'd have a dinner meeting.
(42:31):
So, you know, going back to thiskind of question that got him
that ask about, right, you know,kind of short term, long term,
around how he looked at thefuture of things and why some of
(42:54):
the decisions he made he lookedat as being kind of table
stakes and never kind of digginginto a decision that may have
been the street looked at asless than stellar or whatnot,
but basically like this is why Imade this decision at this time
, with this information that Ihad available.
And I think this endlesspatience, right, I mean you saw
(43:15):
it in his personal life as well.
Right, he was one of the mostphilanthropic people I know.
Right, he had adopted a bunchof amazing children.
I mean just like he didn't justand that was the other thing he
didn't just talk the talk, hewalked it as well.
He very much cared aboutassociates, he really cared
about customers.
He cared about people, like hewas people first and I think
(43:37):
because of that right likeseeing that in a mentor, right
like going back to like I wouldask him questions about you know
, how do you make this decision,or how do you see the future of
this, and he would spend timeanswering that and was I mean,
his analysts were trained to aska lot of questions and it just
got to the point like I almostran out of questions to ask
because he had done such anamazingly thorough job of
(43:58):
answering them and helping methink differently and almost
encouraging it and probably, youknow, for somebody to really
encourage you to step outside ofyour comfort zone, especially
on Wall Street, where you mightget, you know, 30 lashes with a
wet noodle if you're wrong.
He really encouraged me, evenif he disagreed with how I
thought about things.
He's like you should go outwith that right.
(44:21):
Like you should not, don't holdback Having someone give you
almost like that cape for you tobe able to fly.
I felt like Mike did that notonly for me but for so many
people and he's very much missed.
But he really left a legacy,not only in terms of his
philanthropic endeavors but also, I think, in terms of all the
people, rich like you and me,who he helped kind of train for
(44:41):
tomorrow, and so're right.
The patience and every storywas.
Rich (45:03):
I did this.
This is where I stumbled, thisis what I learned and when he
passed, I sent a note to my bossbecause I have a tendency to
send my boss notes every Sunday,and I learned that from Mike
because he talked about how heused to send.
He used to write down his noteson Sunday and send them out to
people and he wasn't sure ifpeople were listening, but he
said those types ofcommunications matter.
Deborah (45:25):
I remember him saying you know, there were some
Fridays like we would just westarted this like Friday See,
I'm sure we had some great namefor it but it was like a Friday
call with CEOs.
And I remember one of theFridays he and I stayed on after
the call and he said, oh, hesaid I, you know, he's like I'd
love to get your feedback on afew things and he's like I want
to include those in my notesthat I'm sending out this week.
(45:46):
And he told me how he just thiswas like a discipline for
himself and how it like gave himbecause he said he could go
back and read his notes from theprior week what he was very
transparent.
So it's a good thing for all ofus probably to do internally,
and especially now in a remotehybrid world, being able to have
(46:08):
that communication with yourteams.
I mean, it's probably a greatlearning from Mike.
Rich (46:12):
All right, so I'm going to kick off the relatable rapid
fire round.
First question you've traveledworldwide.
You can transport yourselfright now, 24 hours, one place.
Get there instantly, come backinstantly.
Where do you go?
What do you do?
Deborah (46:29):
I go to Lagos.
We have a team there.
They have truly helped me thinkoutside of my boundaries of
what's possible.
We have an office and there'san energy that I want to capture
for myself that I see in thatmarket of like what's possible.
I remember we did, we do thesecall course.
(46:51):
I connect.
It's an internal call everyThursday and when people talk
about like sometimes it getsvery mushy and sometimes very
just much more about some of theresearch we've been publishing.
We had someone on our teamtalking about like how he likes
to spend his free time and Ijust like I literally was like
I'm like I love my job so muchbecause I can really feel what
he's talking about and Iunderstand why he has this
passion in his work.
(47:12):
Because he has all this passionin some of the things he's
doing and kind of his you knowlife away from work.
So I would go to Lagos, thatwould be my call.
Gautham (47:20):
All right, so it's my turn.
Since you said you love yourjob, what part of your job would
you automate away?
Deborah (47:26):
Email email.
I do that.
I find that and I have to behonest.
I mean this is one of thosewhere we should get a few folks
together.
If I could AI away my emailwhich I'm sure we probably can't
I mean, I feel we probably willbe able to in like 12 months
right, I can have my own like AIagent to answering my email and
my voice, and I'd like give ita rules around, kind of how to
(47:49):
answer these kinds of emails andthen it's like elevating the
ones that it can't answer.
I would love to AI away myemail, yeah.
Rich (47:58):
I think that's a fairly common answer.
Last one I've seen you speakseveral times in several
different settings, and I don'tknow if you have one.
But do you have a walk-on song?
Or, if not, is there aparticular song that kind of
hypes you up when you need it?
Deborah (48:15):
It's so funny.
So I love all kinds of musicand I mean, all right, I started
my life in classical.
I mean when I live in Chicago,a lot of my friends love country
music.
I mean I learned to dance, Imean it was like I literally any
kind of music I find that Iwill.
I mean I couldn't be listeningto anything from like a cello
(48:35):
concerto to like truly like likeheavy metal or heavy rap, I
mean anything that likeliterally all kinds of music,
and I am sure I listen to thingspeople would never expect that
I would be listening to.
So I truly love all music and,depending on the day of the week
, right, it's like a differentwalk-on song, and so I think
that is, you know, that's also.
(48:58):
I really want to.
If you will champion, you knowthat's also, and I, I really
want to.
If you will champion, you knowthe, the current artist who is,
you know, maybe they they'vegotten one song out I want to
champion those who are buildingtheir careers, and so that's
kind of also where I always leaninto as well.
Rich (49:15):
Thank you very much, debra .
It is an absolute uh it was anabsolute pleasure to have the
conversation.
We've been looking forward toit.
I know our students are goingto look forward to it and you
are truly one of those that Icould listen to and talk to for
hours, because I come away fromevery conversation a little
smarter, challenged, inspiredand have three more things on my
(49:38):
list.
Deborah (49:38):
I appreciate that.
I thought that, so I actuallyreally did put a lot of.
I had not thought about theissue I'd had back in tax
accounting, because I think itwas such a painful moment Taking
that off the shelf.
It was amazing All these moonslater how painful that was, and
I will say, like, leaning intothat though and thinking about
how that changed I don't I meanI don't know if I'd ever even
(50:00):
thought about it how thatchanged.
Honestly, everything I didafter that it could have gone a
different way.
Right, I could have like gonein the bathroom and like cried
my eyes out and like gone backto my office.
Those are the things I actuallyseek a lot of advice on, where
there's something that didn't gothe way I'd hoped it would, and
you know, having knowing I meanyou know both of you guys I
mean being able to.
I mean I think that's the onething you can give advice to
(50:21):
your students.
I think sometimes, picking upthe phone and really talking to
people about challenges you'rehaving and seeking advice, as
opposed to like on, you know, inlike an open forum, having that
one-to-one, I think is really ahuge opportunity and will
change their careers.
It's a skill right, like that'sa skill to be built along with
studying and whatnot.
So careers it's a skill, right,like that's a skill to be built
(50:42):
along with studying and whatnot.
So I think what you guys aredoing is amazing.
I mean, you're building, right,the superstars of tomorrow, and
you know anything I can do tohelp?
I'm here.
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