Where Culture Meets Commerce: Alan Miller on Building Brands Fans Love

What happens when sports, music, and food collide? For Alan Miller, it’s where culture transforms into connection.

As founder of COLLiDE Agency, co-owner of the Portland Pickles, and CEO of Official League, Alan has built his career at the intersection of passion and possibility. From campaigns for Converse and Dr. Martens to collaborations with bands like Fall Out Boy, Alan shows how premium, story-driven products turn casual fans into lifelong advocates.

In this episode, Alan breaks down why most merch fails—and how better design, quality, and storytelling create both revenue and memory. “Stop ignoring the one that wants to drop $90 and show off for their friends,” he advises. Beyond merch, Alan shares why community is built through genuine engagement, not shortcuts, and why curiosity and hustle remain the most underrated career tools.

From walk-up songs to time travel, Alan’s perspective is a reminder that inspiration rarely happens behind a desk. If you’re in retail, sports, or simply building community, this is a conversation you’ll want to hear.

Alan Miller Bio:

Alan Miller is a marketing innovator and entrepreneur at the intersection of culture, sports, and entertainment. He is the founder of COLLiDE Agency, an award-winning marketing firm known for creating groundbreaking campaigns for global brands including Anheuser-Busch, Converse, Dr. Martens, and Hard Rock Hotels. In the sports world, Alan is co-owner of the Portland Pickles, a top collegiate summer baseball team recognized for its fan engagement, community impact, and 2024 West Coast League Championship.

Alan is also the founder and CEO of Official League, a lifestyle brand celebrating sports culture through high-quality, artist-driven apparel and merchandise. Since launching, Official League has partnered with organizations such as MiLB, USL, and AHL, opening its first retail location in Portland in 2024. A creative force with a track record of building brands that connect deeply with audiences, Alan continues to push boundaries across marketing, sports, and fan culture.

Episode Transcript

Rich H (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Retail Relates.
We have another engagingconversation in store for you
today.
I'm Rich Honiball co-hostingtoday with two of our favorites
Guy Courtin, our supply chainand tech guru, who keeps us
honest on how ideas actuallyscale, and Jamie Lynn Curley,
our brand storyteller andexperiential creative, always
tuned in to what fans feel inthe room.

(00:21):
Today's guest lives at theintersection of culture, where
sports, music and food collide,and he's made a career out of
creating brand moments thatdrive real engagement.
We get into why passion plustenacity beats perfect plans,
how inspiration rarely happensbehind a desk and why leaning in
and asking better questionsopen doors that you didn't know

(00:42):
were there.
We'll talk merch's memory howgreat bands can lose fans with
bad merch because we all want tocapture a piece of the
experience and how to buildproducts and spaces that people
are proud to wear, share andrevisit.
We'll also touch upon AI, notas a strategy machine, but as a
challenger, something topressure, test our assumptions

(01:02):
and push what's next thinking,without outsourcing judgment If
you're building a brand, leadinga team or just getting started.
This episode is packed withpractical lessons on curiosity,
grit and showing up.
Alan Miller is a marketing andbrand innovator and entrepreneur
at the intersection of culture,sports and entertainment.
He is the founder of CollideAgency, an award-winning
marketing firm known forcreating groundbreaking

(01:23):
campaigns for global brandsincluding Anheuser-Busch.
Sports and entertainment.
He is the founder of CollideAgency, an award-winning
marketing firm known forcreating groundbreaking
campaigns for global brandsincluding Anheuser-Busch,
converse, doc Martens and HardRock Hotels.
In the sports world, alan isco-owner of several teams,
including the Portland Pickles,a top collegiate summer baseball
team recognized for its fanengagement, community impact and

(01:44):
for being the 2024 West CoastLeague champions.
Allen is also the founder andCEO of Official League, a
lifestyle brand celebratingsports culture through
high-quality, artist-drivenapparel and merchandise.
Since launching, officialLeague has partnered with
organizations such as MILB, usland AHL, opening its first

(02:05):
relocation in Portland in 2024.
A creative force with a trackrecord of building brands that
connect deeply with audience,allen continues to push
boundaries across marketing,sports and fan culture.
In this conversation we breakdown, turning curiosity into
opportunity, designing merchthat carries the memory,

(02:26):
building community through food,music, sports, touch points and
using AI to challenge notreplace human strategy For
emerging talent.
It's a playbook on showing upand asking the next question.
For leaders, it's a reminder tokeep what's next in motion by
getting out from behind the deskand into culture.
Let's welcome Alan to the shop.

(02:47):
So welcome to this episode ofRetail Relates.
I'm joined today by two of ourrookie co-hosts, Jamie Lynn
Curley and Guy Courtin.
Welcome, and we have thepleasure of having a
conversation with Alan Miller.
Alan, welcome to Retail Relates.

Alan M (03:03):
Thank you, I appreciate you having me.

Rich H (03:11):
So, instead of going through your bio and all the
twists and turns that you'vegone through in your career that
have brought you to being aguest on this illustrious
program, what we'd like to startoff with, in all seriousness,
is this question you think aboutthe span of your career, your
personal life.
What are the three pivotalmoments that have brought you to
where you are today?

Alan M (03:29):
Wow, it's a great question, Rich, not quite as
easy to answer, but I think youknow, I think it's interesting
to be a little retrospective ona lot of different industries.
I think what we, I think what,maybe what people don't tell you
, you know, when you're startingto get into a career, is that
careers in the world changesaround us.

(03:49):
And I feel like if you weretalking to the guy who built the
railroad and said, oh yeah,where are you going to be in
five years?
And they'd be like, oh, I'll bebuilding it towards California.
Or you don't realize in themoment that those are things
that just aren't going to existanymore.
So I think from you know, frommy perspective and I've been
very fortunate to work in a tonof really interesting industries

(04:12):
, from companies that I'vecreated to purchase to just the
good fortune of getting to havea marketing agency and see
inside to how so many other bigbrands work I feel like I've
really used that.
But from my perspective, Ithink you know, I think a lot of
it comes out of consciousefforts.
I think when you look at it andsay like some things are forced
, you know when, when GeffenRecords, when I worked there in

(04:32):
the nineties and Geffen Recordsclosed.
That was a big, you know, a bigelement of like, oh wow, music
business does this.
You know industries stop andyou've got to really set set the
stage to understand that.
What are the skills you'relearning and how can you then be
able to attack a differentpassion point with that?
And also, what's reallyinteresting is I've really found

(04:53):
, I think and people have talkedabout this that when you're
really able to kind of master aspecific industry or be able to
understand how it works and beable to get ahead, those
strategies, when you move theminto a different industry, are
like superpowers, because peopleare not seeing things the way
you're seeing things.
So I always thought the musicindustry couldn't have been a

(05:14):
better place to start, becauseit's the hardest thing in the
world to market.
I don't know how are youactually supposed to get someone
to buy an album, a record, aphysical piece of something that
they've never even heard before?
And I mean, that's what we weretalking about back then is baby
steps.
How to get someone to hear aband, how to get someone to hear
this in different contexts,from lifestyle to retail, to

(05:35):
everything, and so you know, Ispent a lot of time in music
retail, another industry thatjust doesn't exist anymore, I
think, as it evolves.
I think sort of being able tosee what's coming up ahead and
trying to pivot by using thesame skills has been very
meaningful to me.
You know I did that when we at acertain point, during Filter
Magazine, we were sort of on topof the world.

(05:56):
We've been publishing for 12years, we were the number one,
you know, like music magazine ina number of countries.
But I saw the writing on thewall.
I said you've got a musicindustry and you've got a print
industry about to fall off acliff.
Pivoting now is probably abetter thing than trying to drag
something out over another 10years when I can only see the
people that consume in thatnature are constantly changing.

(06:19):
And I think you know if I'mgoing to give you a third Rich,
I'm going to say COVID gaveeveryone a good chance to really
think about what they wanted todo.
I was.
You know, when all of the workthat you're doing completely
stops, you have to think aboutwhere you want to be in the
future, when this, if this wereand probably will, happen again

(06:47):
to saying I have to make aconscious effort to work in what
I want to do now, which isgoing to be using the skills
from other industries to makesports teams completely unique
and interesting and successfulin the ways that I've used in
other industries in the past.

Jaime Lynn C (06:57):
I love that, alan.
I'm so fascinated by people whoallow themselves to evolve, you
know, throughout their career,and I've taken a few left turns
with myself, so I admire that somuch in your story.
I'm curious like what hashelped you stay confident in
making this shift.
You've gone from industry toindustry.

Alan M (07:14):
Well, having great partners and friends, I think,
has always been really good.
I think, you know, I've alwaysreally kind of prided myself on
being authentic and beingcurious and always trying to
learn more.
And you know, as I've looked tofriends and partners to throw
things at them and sort of see,what do you think about this?
What do you think about this?
I think having a really diversegroup of people that you're

(07:34):
able to talk to and communicate,that are in different places, I
think really helps.
That.
I mean, confidence is great.
It does come from having successin a lot of places and I think
at a certain point it's like youknow, you do a lot of things
for a lot of number of years toprove to other people or prove
to this, and I think I get to acertain point where you're not
really proving anything.
You really kind of start tonarrow down okay, why am I

(07:57):
really doing this?
What does the success look like?
And then I think it becomes alot more clear.
How do you kind of get over thegoal line and what you want to
do.
But I'm fortunate, like I said,I'm very grateful.
I have a phenomenal staff andthey helped me be confident and
allow me to kind of really helpcreate the path and the vision
for everyone to follow.

Guy C (08:17):
Alan, I love that story.
One thing that struck me whenyou were talking about your
experience, right, is to knowwhen this is not going where
it's supposed to go.
Maybe I should get out.
I'll give you a funny sidestory.
I work at Forrester in the late90s, right, and I remember
talking to companies likeBorders and shopping malls who
were just like this internetthing, it's a fad.
We're fine, we all know wherethat happens.

(08:40):
But people, I think, especiallycoming up that are young in
their careers, right, it's, it'stough, right, it's hard to make
that leap, to have faith, andyou said, like how you have the
confidence, but what would youtell people?
How do you know when it's timeto pull the record and get out,
and how to have that courage todo it?

Alan M (08:55):
Yeah, that's a really good question and I think it's a
really.
I think it's it's going to bedifferent for for everyone and
how they assess the situationand where they see their goals.
I've actually found, you know,that quitting not quitting but
quitting at things that aren'tpaying off the way you want them
to you know it's the old sunkencost fallacy.
You know you put so much moneyand time to something, oh, I

(09:18):
can't really quit it.
Well, sure, you can Just startover and think about something
else and oftentimes there's agreat relief that comes with
like with that.
You know, and it is interestingand I've thought about this over
the time is that you know a lotof your expectations and kind
of what you want, I thinkchanges all the time and I think
if you sort of stay true toreally what your passions are, I

(09:40):
found, you know I will behonest and I get bored quickly
and I'm always looking at thenew interesting thing and I'm
researching something new and Ithink that's the fun of the fun
of all of these is starting, isgetting to learn and going
really, really deep intosomething you would never think
about before.
And you know, and I was, youknow, brainstorming on a project

(10:00):
this morning with someone whowanted us to come in and do a
retail pop up on a project thismorning with someone who wanted
us to come in and do a retailpop-up, and we were just kind of
talking back and forth about,oh, this would be interesting to
look at the history of the areaand go back and deep and deep.
And so, sure enough, I findmyself going back and looking at
baseball cards from 1909 andtrying to put together these
really fun stories.
But I think that journey isimportant because it gives you

(10:22):
the opportunity to really helpeducate and give value to a lot
of the projects that you'reworking on, so they don't feel
like they're hollow, they don'tfeel like they don't have soul.
There is a reason for it and Ithink once you've really
solidified your why, you reallycan do great things.

Rich H (10:41):
So let's transition into the lessons that you've learned
.
And I'm curious so you startedin music, now you're involved in
music and sports and we'll getto talking about official league
.
But what I find fascinating isthat the retail industry today,
seemingly, is rediscovering theneed for experience.
We're going back to the days ofHarry Selfridge and Retailist

(11:03):
Theater.
You were coming from a musicbackground.
How important was the product,the merch to the music and to
the sports experience?

Alan M (11:13):
Well, to me it's everything.
I mean, I think that there'ssomething about and I have this
conversation with artists allthe time, or their management,
and it kind of boggles the mindwhen you've worked two years on
an album.
You've worked two years writing, recording, bringing in
musicians, grinding on tour,working with publicists, going

(11:35):
back and forth, and the outputof that is so important.
You know the instruments, youchoose the lyrics, this that
everything's so important froman artistic integrity, and then
you go on tour and you put up ascreen printed t-shirt and
expect that's what your fanswant.
It's broken, it just doesn'tmake any sense.
And so I think that you knowit's and I understand why.

(11:56):
I think the why is importantbecause you know it's hard to
control everything and I thinkoftentimes it's a last minute.
You know we race the finishline, you finish it and then
everything is the afterthought.
Sports teams do it all the time.
They try to solve for whateverthe easiest thing is.
We're low on inventory slide insome other best sellers, the
cheapest things we can get, andthey don't have time to plan

(12:19):
strategically and I think that'skind of you know what.
What I hope we're able to helpwith, with teams and artists and
creatives is to say slow down,let us help you, let us
collaborate and we will buildyou something that's
considerably more meaningfulthan what you have.
And it's exactly what we foundis that?

(12:40):
You know, I was doing aninteresting case study.
Even last night, we had anevent and we had a retailer in
Toledo saying yeah, I can onlysell a crew neck that's going to
sell for $60.
I can't sell a $90.
So I can't buy your $45 crewneck.
I know it's embroidered, I knowit's beautiful, I know it's
three times quality, but my, youknow, I don't think they're

(13:02):
going to buy it.
And I was like, oh okay, let meshow you something.
And so I went back and we havea team outside of Cleveland and
I looked at both of the.
We sell two different things.
We have a cheaper screenprinted crew and we also have a
beautifully embroidered multiplehit with amazing product that
we make by hand.
And I looked at them and wemake by hand.

(13:28):
And I looked at them and well,he was right, they did sell.
We do sell more of the cheaperone, but guess what?
Selling fewer of the expensiveone actually created more
revenue for the team.
And so there is an opportunity,and there is a case study to
say there's two differentconsumers here.
Stop ignoring the one thatwants to drop $90 and show off
for their friends.
It's not just a utilitarian,you know, I just need a hoodie

(13:50):
because it's cold outside.
They want a crew, a hoodie, at-shirt that's memorable and can
tell stories and createsomething that's really, really
meaningful, and that's, I think,the big difference in this, and
I think that's what we'retrying to bring to it.
It's just, it's not easy, it'snot their first thought, but
everyone is definitely comingaround to it.

Rich H (14:10):
How did you land on that .
You're starting in the musicindustry.
You you progress throughcreative agency and print
journalism.
Was there that ah ha moment?
Or to just evolve over time,how important the merchandise
was to the overall experience?

Alan M (14:27):
Well, I have a passion and I go to a concert or I go to
a team and I go somewherearound the world and some people
do it amazing and I drop allthis money and other people are
like I don't, I just, they'releaving money on the table.
I mean, it's the same thingfrom a team perspective.
You see it a lot with you knowF&B, and how are you more
efficient and how can you makemore money?
How can you do this?
And there's a lot of differentstrategies to continue to do

(14:50):
that.
I think, from the problem thatwe wanted to solve when we
started acquiring and workingwith a lot of sports teams, we
sort of understood, we looked atwhat the landscape was, you
know, and I was pretty surprised, I would say, over the course
of, you know, having thePortland Pickles, which is the
number one collegiate wood batteam in the country, and we do a

(15:12):
lot of merch and we have aretail shop and after about the
first, I guess, six, seven years, we never we did not get
approached by one vendor,partner, collaborator who wanted
to do merch with us in ameaningful way.
Not one, and we were sellingincredibly high amounts of
things and we just weren't onthe radar, so they wouldn't work
with us.
So, you know, there were brandsI really wanted to do

(15:32):
collaborations with and it justwasn't interesting to them and
everything was too expensive.
What do you want?
You want a corduroy, you wantthis jacket, you want these
things.
How do we?
You know, we have our amazingsilhouettes, but how do we solve

(15:53):
for what you need, which is alot of really cool customization
and short, you know, creatingsmaller amounts, which sells out
faster and continues to builddemand?
So that was really what westarted with, and then we, quite
as part of, try to solve everyproblem we had how come I have
to wait 12 to 14 months for anew hat?
Well, you shouldn't.
And we found out that was just abunch of crap, and we can now
turn around hats in 30 to 45days and they're premium and

(16:15):
amazing, and so each one ofthose kind of challenges was
something we wanted to solve forus first, and then be able to
go out and solve for partnersand teams and artists all around
the world.
And so it is a little evensurprising when we talk to big
teams and we're like, oh yeah,we can get this for you in time
for the end of the season.
Or, yeah, we can get it for youin 45 days.

(16:37):
And they don't even believe ituntil they work with us for a
little bit and see how we'reable to do it, because we
understand their side of it.
We understand that, hey, byJuly 4th you better be full of
merch and you better you knowyou better be stopped up and
ready to go, because you gotFather's Day, you have July 4th,
you have tours coming for fall.
There are things that arereally important and we want to
help prepare you for it.

Guy C (16:56):
From my perspective.
You know and I think Richmentioned this, you know I'm a
supply chain guy at heart, so Ilove this story where you're
constricting the time right ofproducts to get from conception
to shelf, and so quickly.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow are you guys solving for
that problem, because that's onethat all retailers have right
Is oh, I got to source it, I gotto plan it, design it,

(17:18):
manufacture it, ship it, put ina warehouse, et cetera.
Can you shed some light on that?

Alan M (17:21):
Yeah, I think you know we're in an interesting position
because I'm not.
Our typical order isn't goingto be 20,000 units, so there's a
lot of problems that big boxand other retailers are going to
have that just simply, we'renimble enough to move things
around.
The other thing, and luckilyand this is all changing from a
tariff perspective and the worldthing is that we spent a year,
year and a half, going tofactories around the world and

(17:44):
trying to find people that weregoing to be good fits for us,
going to factories around theworld and trying to find people
that were going to be good fitsfor us, people that had
opportunities to grow, peoplethat really wanted to be in this
business, people that we knewhad incredible training and
could do those things.
And so, you know, we builtreally good partnerships, you
know, and we've become, over thecourse of the last four years,
really able to trust in ourpartners and become much closer
than that.

(18:04):
So I think a lot of it is trialand error, you know.
I still.
You know it's important to keeptrying and seeing oh where?
How are these factories inVietnam working compared to some
of the things that arehappening in Sri Lanka?
And, you know, is India worthworking in?
Or, you know, keep workingthrough our Pakistan factories,
and I think it's working withthem and always trying to find

(18:26):
the best ways to do that.
And, as you said, you know,some of these places don't have,
naturally, the supplies thatyou need.
But is that still cheaper toship them there and be able to
create somewhere somewheredifferent?
And then a lot of it comes downto where we're shipping to, but
it's, I think it's justconstant trial and error and
working with your core partnersto keep building relationships

(18:46):
that really support them.
It's not, you know, goodpartnership isn't like I need
this for $4.
It's how are we going to worktogether?
Can I, if I remove this and youdo this and we do this, can we
get it to a place that thatworks?
And and so we have that trustnow and we're really happy with
our partner.

Rich H (19:02):
Well, I think that's an interesting comment, because
you're talking about arelationship with your, with
your vendors, and you're alsotalking about a relationship
with your customers.
That becomes symbiotic.
How important is community towhat you do?
Again, something else theretailers are talking about
today moving from the notion ofsocial media to community and

(19:24):
authenticity.
How have you found that aspectof the business?

Alan M (19:29):
Well, authenticity is.
I mean, it's the core ofeverything we do.
I really wouldn't want to doanything that wasn't rooted in
an authentic, important way.
So you know, the key to that iscommunity is everything.
But it's hard to get there,especially when tactics right
now are not authentic, and Ithink you have a lot of brands

(19:52):
that are trying to solve formarketing by saying very simple
things like oh yeah, we'll justget influencers and spend money
against this or that, and that'sreach, it's not influence, it's
not community, it's notsustainable, and we've proved
that over a long period of time.
There's no quick fix, there's noquick win.

(20:13):
You really have to if youreally want to build community.
You got to do it right, you gotto do it over a period of time
and you have to be sort ofreally engaged in a back and
forth dialogue with yourcustomers.
And I think you see this a lotwhen it's like they're not
listening.
They're not listening, they'rejust doing what they want.
And I think for us it's alwaysimportant to speak and

(20:35):
understand and listen and askfor feedback.
Ask for you know, because thereare always things you're not
thinking about or directions youthink you may want to go in,
but that's not actually whereyour community wants you to go.

Jaime Lynn C (20:47):
Ellen, how do you ask and how do you listen?
Is it on social media?
Is it through surveys?

Alan M (20:57):
How are you connecting with your core client?
I think a lot of it is througha combination of a lot of things
.
I think one of the things thatpeople make a mistake about and
they overreact when you hearsomeone saying everyone's saying
that you need to do this.
There is no everybody.
It's just like when it's likeI've been hearing about no,
there is no, I've been hearingabout that's you wanting
something or one person?
So I think the number one thingis, from a feedback perspective

(21:20):
, we always we have a rule andmost are things like unless you
hear from five people, don't, Idon't want to know about it.
So from that perspective, Ithink that's important.
On the positive side, we dosurveys.
We want to know what kinds ofthings they like.
We look at upcoming trends thatare potentially relevant to
what we're doing, but I think wehave a very good idea of kind

(21:41):
of what we want to play in.
I think our aesthetic and whatwe aspire to be is very modern,
vintage.
I think we're our, ouraesthetic and what we aspire to
be is very modern, vintage.
Um, I think we want to takeinspiration from the past and
create new things.
I think that the surprise ofthe familiarity of the past and
the surprise of something new isis always where we strive to be
from a creative side.
But yeah, it's a, it's a.

(22:02):
It's a constant process of howwe listen to people and and and
and, where we think there'svalue in listening, and
oftentimes where it's like thisis just a complaint.

Guy C (22:12):
What's your measure, alan ?
Like when you think about this,right, sometimes it's, you know
, quoting Henry Ford like if Ilisten to my customers, I build
a faster horse, right.
But where do you find thatbalance?
Where you're coming up withsomething that you might say you
know what we're going to trythis embroidery on this type of
style.
I'd say you know what we'regoing to try, this embroidery on
this type of style, and we haveno sense that anybody's going
to like it.
But my gut tells me this isgoing to be cool.

(22:32):
Walk us through that, because Ithink that's the cool part,
right, where you're doing stuffwhere we're just surprised by it
.

Alan M (22:36):
Yeah, we do a lot for us .
I think we have a very smallteam and we collaborate very
well together and I think whatwe always start with I think
this is cool, I think this willbe fun, I think this will, and
we're very good about goingthrough and it's like add this
little detail.
Then I think it's really good,add this little thing, so we
don't waste time by saying thisand we all, luckily, are always

(22:58):
aligned on the aesthetic that wewant, and I think getting that
feedback and being able tocollaborate with people well, I
think, is a gift.
I think it's hard to do with alot of people, but when you've
built a culture around peoplethat are excited to be here and
share a vision, we do it for us,you know, and it usually works.

(23:19):
I would say, most of the time wecome up with things that are
really interesting and I willsay, working with a lot of teams
and artists is also reallyinteresting, because some of our
best sellers or best ideas arethings that we didn't come up
with.
There are things that an artistsaid you know, I really would
love to try this, and we don'teven know we're like.
Well, we'll try that, we'll seeif they like it we might get

(23:41):
feedback on.
You know a particular productand they want to try and go into
it.
You know some an R and D thingon some specific new thing and
we're like, yeah, I think thereis a need for that.
We've heard that from multipleteams.
Uh, and then we'll go into itand work on on building
something special.

Rich H (23:56):
Is there something that you or the team did that you
would have banked was going tobe a wild success that just
flopped that to this day day,you're still kind of scratching
your head over.

Alan M (24:09):
I don't know that anything has flopped.
I kind of think that anythingthat flops there's a reason for
to a certain degree, I thinkyou've got to look at the sort
of the things that you cancontrol and then really, I would
say I probably am guilty ofgetting too esoteric and too
niche on things, where I'm like,oh yeah, everyone's going to

(24:29):
care about this 1943 amazingteam because they have this
great logo and it's superawesome.
And then you think about it andit's like, yeah, I do care and
it is cool, but is it enoughstorytelling?
Is there any real sharedinterest that people are also
going to like it?
Or am I just making myself acool hat?
And I think we've really lookedat ourselves.
As we come into new productsand new projects, we really have

(24:52):
to look at ourselves and say,ok, how do we have time to
support this in the right way?
And if we don't, it's probablynot worth doing right now.

Rich H (25:00):
So let me I'll ask a follow up to that.
So you've obviously beeninvolved with retailers and
retail brands that have becomeinvolved in sports and music.
What kinds of strategies haveyou developed for them and what
have you seen work and not workat times?

Alan M (25:15):
I think this is a really interesting time.
We've seen a really big shiftover the last few years.
That are just.
They're not in real life.
I think the biggest trend thatwe always see is people wanting
just to push more digital.
Push, push, push.
Double your spend on digital,double your spend on social,
double your influencers.
I've seen more than one brandthat we've worked with go from

(25:37):
doing things that are veryauthentic in communities and
turn that right into influencersand I've seen that fail
dramatically very, very quick.
The best things that a brand cando with any culture and a
retailer is to very carefullyand cautiously talk to the
community and find out what thecommunity needs.
You know, if you want to do amusic strategy, well, in that

(26:00):
hometown or your multiple townswhere you're doing a lot of work
, what do they need?
Do they need a venue?
Do they need a recording studio?
Do they need support on gettingtheir visibility out there?
Do they need brand partner?
What do they need that a brandcan do in a very authentic way?
And you'll find oftentimes it'sthe easiest things, it's not

(26:20):
the hard things.
I mean years and years ago, youknow, when we had a challenge
with Denny's and Denny's wantingto bring people back into the
restaurants.
It was actually really simple.
You know, we said you knowartists are going there after
their shows, especially onesthat are younger, and there
aren't.
You know, if you have a showfrom a band that has fans in
high school, well they're notgoing to a shady show and
they're not going to a barafterwards.

(26:42):
Find a place.
You know they're going toDenny's.
That's where they're goingafter the show.
So why don't you surprise themand have the bands there and
playing after shows and servingthem and serving their fans?
And that kind of connection was, like I said, so easy.
It doesn't cost much, but itwas incredibly meaningful for
everyone involved.

Rich H (26:59):
Was it Denny's in Canton that we almost had Rich Eisen
come to.

Alan M (27:05):
No, it was not.
It was Waffle House Rich.

Rich H (27:08):
There it was.
Waffle House.
Okay, another fan favorite, andour friend will never live that
one down.

Guy C (27:15):
Oh, terrible.
I love both of them.
I love both.
I want to build out what youjust said and Jamie Lynn said
this earlier too aboutcommunication and the genuine
side of it.
Can you talk a little bit,because I have to bring this
topic up?
I hate it.
You guys don't give me the dirtylooks, but I'm getting a lot of
oh.
We're going to use not justsocial, but we're going to use
AI to do more communication,which literally makes me want to

(27:37):
throw up in my mouth.
But what I love, what you justsaid, al, is a lot of things
you're talking about is on thepersonalized level.
Right, go to the local Denny's.
How are you talking to some ofyour customers or your suppliers
or whomever Like?
How do you break away from thishype around oh, more
influencers, more social, moreAI to be like no, be locally
focused, touch your customers,understand the community.

(27:59):
To Jamie Lynn's point earlierlike, communicate the way they
want.
But how are you getting thatmessage out there so that people
are like okay, I'm going toignore the AI hype, I'm going to
focus on what you're saying.

Alan M (28:08):
Well, it's a great question and I think, as you
really talk, I mean, the AI is,without a doubt, going to take
over everything.
I mean, that's just the realityand faster than anyone expects
it to, and I think it always itcreates this are you being
responsible for how you're usingit, how you're communicating,
how you're doing things?
I'm a huge AI proponent.
I think that it is absolutelygame-changing on everything.

(28:30):
I think the problem is humans.
I think we are not asking itthe right questions.
And you talk about well, I'mgoing to go into AI and develop
a communication strategy andthere it is.
It's like well, that's thewrong way to use it.
The right way could be todevelop something and ask it to
find all the holes, find you allthe problems, find all the

(28:51):
challenges, find out how I can,what's missing, how can I
communicate better?
What are the issues with that?
I think that's the thing.
We're not.
We're just not communicatingcorrectly.
You know it takes time to adoptthe things correctly.
I think the biggest challenge Ihave and I'm surprised at it
too, because we have a lot ofyounger people on our staff and

(29:12):
it has taken time to get them toadopt their thinking, to using
it properly and using it to makethemselves smarter, more agile,
more efficient.
They're not using it that wayyet and it's maybe they don't
have the experience yet tounderstand what good ideas or
bad ideas are yet, but there'sthe potential, is lasting, and

(29:34):
communication, as an example, isthe most important thing that
we do in our company.
If we're not communicating well, somebody is going to be angry
and something's going to be donewrong, and it takes much more
time to undo and redo and makesure everyone's good with it
than another way of doing it aswell.
So it's definitely aninteresting thing and it's going
to consistently change over thecourse of the next few years.

Jaime Lynn C (29:57):
Oh, and I think by Camino, you've built
communities around everythingfrom music to sports lifestyle
brands and it's authentic, right?
You know I've said that'ssomething that really is the
thread throughout everythingthat you do.
What do you think it reallytakes to build an authentic
community today?
Because everyone's trying to dothat and, as you said, some are
failing?

Alan M (30:16):
Well, it's hard and I don't know that there's a silver
bullet to it, and in fact Iknow there's not.
I've had conversations with alot of owners of other
businesses or teams and they'relike, okay, great, how do we do
that?
How do we get 3,000 more peoplenext week?
How do we?
And all of those short-termthings are facades.
I think sometimes we're notdoing a good enough job of

(30:37):
thinking about how we ourselveswant to discover new things.
Do you want to see it on an ad10 times over?
Do you want to see it fromsomeone who you don't relate to?
Where are you getting yourmessaging from?
Are you able to relate to thosepeople?
Does those people havecredibility in the world that
you're bringing to it?

(30:57):
There are a lot of questionsyou have to ask yourself and,
more than anything, you've gotto make sure there's a need and
a desire for that community.
You know we started a soccerteam in Portland this year the
Portland Bangers community.
You know we started a soccerteam in Portland this year the
Portland bangers and it was onceagain something out of nothing.
There was no team, there hadbeen a tech, there had been
these teams, this level, in thepast.
They've all failed and this isthe first one that's been

(31:17):
successful and we did it in avery, very short period of time.
Why that was able to win is one.
There's a huge need in themarket If it's marketed to the
right way.
I think people had to understandthe value of the level,
understand the value of thecommunity, understand what we're
bringing to it and feel likethey could be a part of it.
And it's taken.
We've seen it over the courseof our season that it's gotten

(31:41):
louder every game, noisier,rowdier, more exciting.
We had a player the last twogames, our captain actually
jumps up into the stands nowwhen we score a goal and just
goes crazy with the crowd andthat to me, was like they buy it
, they get it, they understandthe players, understand what
they're trying to do.

(32:02):
The fans then appreciate thatthe players care so much, then
appreciate that the players careso much, and I think a lot of
it just comes down to creating aculture that supports each
other and we're all sort ofunited on what our goal is, and
I've always kind of felt thatsports brings that out better
than anything else, because youreally get to teach and learn
teamwork in a way that is socrucial, and then a lot of

(32:24):
brands and retail communities.
They don't have that and theydon't see it.
So it becomes very hard forthem to really visualize what a
great community looks likebecause they don't see it and
not everyone has the vision.
And I think, going back to AI,it's another great opportunity
to say you know what it's goingto look like, it's going to look
like this, and that helps ustell our tale and it helps us

(32:45):
sell in concepts, whereas beforeit might be too hard for them
to even understand what thatcould look like that admiration
that athletes had for musiciansand almost envy and the
musicians that had the same forathletes, and then bring in

(33:12):
celebrity chefs.

Rich H (33:13):
To what extent have you been able to leverage that in
building brand communities?

Alan M (33:19):
Well, rich, that's a great callback and it's funny
that you know that is a.
It's a concept that I reallyhave leaned into and talked
about for a number of years andI mean we were probably talking
about this 10 years ago indifferent ways and we'd expose
each one in different ways.
But actually until the lastcouple of years I wasn't able to
facilitate that in a meaningfulway until officially got its

(33:39):
legs under it.
But what we found in probablyone of our biggest success
stories, as officially, iscollaborating with artists and
musicians and, as you canimagine, there's a lot of voices
.
But when you have partners thatare excited about that and want
to work together on it, and youput the artists in the sport
world and vice versa, it'sabsolute magic because the

(34:03):
biggest artists in the worldbecome little kids on a baseball
field and these sports athletesthat go to a backstage at a
concert is the coolest thing inthe world to them.
And so, you know, we had acollection a couple months ago
where we brought together FallOut Boy and the Iowa Cubs and
Fall Out Boy is big Chicago, bigCubs fan all these sort of
things and you know and the teamreally wasn't even they know a

(34:26):
little bit about Fall Out Boywas, but they weren't really
fully even prepared tounderstand how big of a band
that was, how big theirfollowing was, and they
absolutely got completelyinundated with calls.
The entire collection sold outin less than 30 minutes and they
were kind of caught off guardLike, oh my, like, what do we do
with the rest of the pieces?
Like, should we hold them?
Should we like what you know?
And it became this hugemovement and it's like I said,

(34:48):
it's very hard to sort ofquantify when you take one big
thing here, a second big thing,it's not actually three, it's
like 10.
Because bringing two fan basestogether, when you do them right
, is the greatest.
And we've got a collectioncoming out next week with Coheed
and Cambria and the BrooklynCyclones, and then we've got a
really interesting one thefollowing month where we have

(35:09):
the Killers and the Las Vegasminor league team, the Las Vegas
Aviators, and I think that's areally interesting thing.
The Killers are from Vegas.
There really are not many bandsfrom Vegas.
So getting to kind of tell theVegas story through the Killers,
one of the biggest alternativerock bands in the world, and
this great team that supportstheir community, I think, going

(35:30):
to be one of the bigger thingsthat we should I have to say,
alan, you rattle off a bunch ofminor league teams, which is
near and dear to my heart, cause, like, as you can tell, I love
hats, like you, and I've been toLas Vegas stadium.

Guy C (35:41):
I've been, I've tried to go to the Cubs and all this Can
you talk?
Cause I think it's reallyfascinating all you're saying,
these collaborations, but canyou talk about would this have
been possible 10, 15, 20 yearsago, before the rise of digital
mobile, the intern, theinterwebs?
Before the rise of digitalmobile, the interwebs, as we
call them, instagram and allthis?
My kid and I just ended upgoing to a Boston Bolts game the
other day.
Uslb Sat there and watched.

(36:03):
It was fantastic.
I'm here in Vermont, there'sVermont Green, that's how it
just came up, and they'veexploded.
They've exploded everywhere,but a lot of it is generated
because they're on Instagram,they're on social.
I can access them through the.
I can watch their games on theinternet.
I don't have to go to ESPN orCBS.
Would this have been possible20 years ago, as you're?

Alan M (36:24):
seeing the success today .
It would have been harder, itwould have been possible.
You know, the social has reallycreated something where you
know everyone has a voice in itand so whoever's putting money
behind it is the ones that aregoing to be seen.
For the most part, the way tocounter money is to be ultra
creative, to be able to come upwith content that can beat the
algorithm of having to spendmoney to do that.

(36:45):
It's a really good question.
I think there's always beengreat merch and great pieces,
and I think people that have youknow 20 years ago, that were
committed to doing this, wereahead of the curve and really
understood that and did a greatjob.
But I don't think there's beena lot of mixing.
I think that's what's reallyinteresting about and I think,
once you know, as I got into thesports world like there are not
that many people that come infrom an ownership perspective,

(37:09):
with a creative background.
They're oftentimes attorneys,banking, financial services,
where they know how to makemoney and they made a lot of
money and they buy teams.
The opportunity that we had waswell, we want to come in and
inspire creatively and that's adifferent.
It's just it's a different wayof looking at it and I have
really found over my time insports is that every ownership
group comes in with a totallydifferent interest and until you

(37:32):
understand why they're in it,they're not all in it for the
same reason.
I mean, some people are ultracompetitive and they want to win
, win, win and they're just likewinners.
That's the key.
There are some owners, and alot of them, that the greatest
thing they could do is be on thefield for batting practice and
walk around and maybe coachthird base at one time.
And you have other people thatare there because it's an ego

(37:54):
play and their local market.
It makes them a big shot andthey get to play off of that.
We're the minority.
So I think you know I thinkthere's probably a lot of I know
there's a fair amount ofapprehension when we kind of
come into leagues because we'renot going to look at what the
last guy did or traditionallywhat they did.
We're going to come in withsomething that you know is
authentic to our market and thatwe think can really grow and be

(38:19):
a viable amplification of ourmarket.
And I think you know we've had alot of conversations this week
about Portland and you knowwe're launching a women's soccer
team next year and you knowsome of the things that you know
conversations we have aboutthat is, portland's an
unbelievable city and I thinkfrom a national and global
perspective it has just been somuch negativity and so so many

(38:43):
terrible things.
But it's really not the case.
In fact, it's almost theopposite.
I think people are, you know,really dunking on Portland
because they're jealous of theunbelievable amount of creative
freedom that you have and thatmost people in them who live or
move to Portland have thisability to do anything that they
want, that they feel passionateabout.
And that's why you have a lotof people that people are like

(39:05):
oh, those guys are weird.
It's not that they're weird,it's just that they don't give a
crap what you think about themand they're going to follow
their passion and their dreams.
And I think that Portland's amarket that overachieves on that
element and to me that'sfascinating.
And there's just not that manymarkets.
I mean Austin, texas, is one ofthose markets.
If you look at a lot of thecounterculture areas in this

(39:25):
country, those seem to be whereyou find a lot of creativity and
not that much creativity insports teams.
Oddly enough, that's kind ofwhere we found a really fun
niche for us.

Rich H (39:36):
So I'm going to pivot to the advice part, and I'm going
to let Jamie Lynn and Guy takethis one.
But I want to ask the firstquestion, the more personal one,
and it's about finding thatwork-life balance or work-life
harmony.
Several years ago I rememberhaving a conversation with you
where you were saying it's goingto be slow for the for the next

(39:58):
few months, not necessarilyworried about it, but my son and
I are going to go see a fewbaseball games.
Tell me about that.

Alan M (40:04):
Well, I would.
I mean, I feel like I've I'veput a lot on my plate because I
don't like to not have thingsgoing on.
I've definitely overdone that.
I think I overcompensated forbeing bored one time.
To your point, rich, I thinkwhat's really interesting about
where you find inspiration isyou're not going to find it in
front of your computer screen.

(40:24):
At least it's not the way itworks for me.
I think you find inspiration bygoing out and seeing what other
people are passionate about.
Oftentimes that's traveling,seeing how somebody else does it
.
A retail experience somewherecan be very inspiring, seeing
how sports teams do it, and Ithink that's that.
A lot of my passion comes fromvisiting sports teams in other
countries, and I think that'swhere you really can borrow

(40:48):
interesting ideas, bring themback and, kind of you know, work
them into how you're doingthings.
But that's why baseball inJapan, korea, mexico.
Work them into how you're doingthings.
But that's why baseball inJapan, korea, mexico, dominican
is unbelievable and completelydifferent from how it's
perceived here.
You need to take time.
I'm guilty of this, when I gettoo busy, of going out and
saying stop working on thethings I am, Go out and see what

(41:10):
other people are doing, just soyou start to understand and
feel like, oh, that's somethingthat could work really well,
solve another problem youmight've been having with
something else as well.
It's a process, for sure, andnow I think I'm probably looking
for what that next thing can'tjust go to a baseball game and
expect to be inspired anymore.
I've ruined that for myselfbecause I actually we're so

(41:31):
detailed and we have so muchengagement that I actually get
bored going to a lot of othergames now because we've sort of
pushed ourselves to a pointwhere it's tough.
So I'm always looking for thatnext experience.
That is super cool.

Jaime Lynn C (41:45):
Alan, I have a question for you.
What is an underrated skill ortrait that you look for in
people, whether it's a partner,an employee, you know, maybe a
new collaboration?

Alan M (41:56):
I would say it's exactly what you guys are doing today.
It's asking great questions.
I cannot I just cannotunderstand this.
This is such an easy thing, butpeople have such a hard time
with it is the better questionsyou ask.
It inspires multiple things.
You learn from it, but you alsocan sometimes think about
something differently.

(42:17):
It helps sort of what you'reworking on.
So I think probably one of themost I mean it's easy to say
work hard, grind.
I always look for people thatwork hard, grind, are kind, are
great team members, people thatwant to see their colleagues
succeed.
I always found that was mybiggest problem with the record
industry and music business wasfor you to succeed.

(42:38):
Other people had to fail.
That's a broken model in mymind.
I never wanted someone to failfor me to succeed, I want
everyone to succeed.
That's our job is to carryeveryone, bring everybody up.
So I think great questions issomething that really
differentiates people from justtalking about themselves all day
.

Guy C (42:54):
I love that.
So, Alan, to build on that, ifI'm a little guy like me or I'm
a student coming out of college,what are the things that, as
you're starting out, you'relooking for the next place to
find inspiration?
You've been to so many baseballgames, but how do you and I
know it's cliche, right Get outof your comfort zone?
But how do you do that?
What would you tell people?

Alan M (43:17):
How do you do that?
How do you take that first step?
Well, everyone's comfort zoneis different.
I mean, I think that's thefirst thing to understand is,
you know, a lot of people, andincluding myself, are very
introverted.
We spend a lot of time thinkingwe time on by our own and that
it helps us to be able tocommunicate better to other
people.
Often, other people are veryextroverted, which work great
with introverted people, becausethey can do things that other
people can't.
There are a lot of tools.
I always see this.
It's so easy to stand out and Ican't understand why more

(43:41):
people you know people that workfor us don't do this.
You know it's making yourselfvisible.
I mean, it's really simple.
I believe heavily ininternships.
I think that the moreinternships you can do at any
age are amazing, because itgives the business owners an
opportunity to see what you doand see who you are and see how

(44:03):
you perform under pressure whichare the hardest things to gauge
in an interview and if you cango in there and show people that
, oh, I get this, I'm all in,I'll grind, I'll be there at
five in the morning, I'll dothis late night, I'm all here
for the team.
I'll support people.
I'll grind.
I'll be there at five in themorning, I'll do this late night
.
I'm all here for the team.
I'll support people.
You're an instant hire.
I mean, it's not complicated.
I mean there.
Very rarely, if ever, has beenan opportunity where we see

(44:23):
someone and they're like wedon't say, hey, let's find a way
to bring them through in someway.
But it's the constant you'revisible, you're doing the right
things.
And it trickles upward Everyonelikes you, everyone's like I
want to be around them.
They've really helped me.
I don't think it's as hard aspeople look at it.
I think it's just a matter offollowing the things you love.
People reach out to me andthey're like, oh my God, I love

(44:44):
this kind of stuff.
I really need an internship, Iwant you, it's great.
And then you're in and then Inever meet them Like, well, how
come you didn't say hi?
Or how come you didn't tell mewhat you liked or knew, or this
or our time is precious.
But I think for at least for me, I'm always open to trying to
make time to help people andmake them better at what they're

(45:05):
doing, and I think they justmiss those opportunities to ask
and to continue to grow and askthese questions, and everyone
wants to, you know, isinterested in talking about what
makes things successful.
But you got to ask thequestions, you got to be visible
.

Rich H (45:18):
Love those answers and I think it is a, and I like the
fact that you've mixed theintroverts and the extroverts
because I think it is a goodcombination.
I think that one can play offof the other.
All right.
So we're going to pivot to therapid fire round.
I know this is the part thatyou've been looking forward to
the most.
I'm going to kick it off andthen to set it up.
We'll go to Guy and then AmyLynn and then I'll come back for

(45:41):
maybe a bonus.
One Depends on if I want tothrow you for a loop and we'll
close out.
But I have to ask with yourexperience in music, do you have
a walk on song?

Alan M (45:53):
You know it's funny.
You ask that and I've beenasked it before and I gave
terrible answers, and so Iwanted to think about it a
little, and now I have an answerfor you.
I'm going to go with DavidBowie Heroes as my walk-up song.
I love that choice Perfect.

Jaime Lynn C (46:08):
Okay, I'm going to ask you what is the one
superpower you wish you had?

Alan M (46:13):
Another great question.
I would very, very much like totime travel.
I get bored of some of thecurrent cities because I've had
these experiences, but I feellike if I could go to these
cities 50, 100 years ago, athousand years ago, a hundred
years in the future, I feel likeI would have new experiences.
I had this epiphany recently,and maybe everyone else realizes

(46:36):
this.
But when you go to a city,you're not going to a city,
you're going to a city and atime and a place that will never
, ever be the same again, and Idon't think you realize it until
visiting maybe again five or 10years later.
It's like, oh, this isn't theway I remember, and it's not
that you remember it poorly, itthe way I remember it.

(47:01):
This is a way.
And it's not that you rememberit poorly, it's that we are
changing so rapidly.
It's always evolving and I'vehad both experiences with that.
But yes, I would very much liketo go and see cities in lots of
different time periods.
So, thank you, and if you canhelp bring that to fruition, I
would, I'd be grateful.

Jaime Lynn C (47:10):
OK, a follow up to that what's the one city would
go to?

Alan M (47:18):
Oh, that is good.
That that is good.
I could go visit all of them.
Now I think at this point, Ilove, I've always loved,
southeast asia.
I, I have, um, I I was justmentioning I was talking to a
friend about this when we, whenwe first went to, uh, laos like
in thailand, you know, 25 yearsago the first time, and we were
going up into the hill tribethailand, there's the karen
tribes and a few other, and wewent all the way up there and we

(47:38):
were talking about what do youthink is going to happen when
they get internet?
And we were like, nah, they'reso remote, it's not going to
matter, it'll be fine, theirculture will be intact.
And, my God, I couldn't havebeen more wrong.
That is just the biggestdifference ever.
So I'd like to go back and seesome non-tech worlds.

(47:59):
Good luck with that, thank you.

Guy C (48:01):
All right, so I'll ask you this one last from my end,
my last question.
I'm going to deviate a bit,because you talked a lot about
minor league baseballs what areyour three favorite minor league
baseball parks that yourecommend people to go to?

Alan M (48:12):
Oh gosh, that's a great one.
Well, I have to say mine.
So Portland Pickles, obviouslyyou need to go to.
I would also say our other team, the Lake County Captains in
Cleveland, is fantastic.
Beyond that, I mean there are,I love all of them.
I mean I love all of themhonestly.
I love them all for the reallyunique and interesting reasons
that make them each special.

(48:32):
If you're in Dallas and youwant to go down a lazy river in
Frisco, you've got a greatopportunity.
I think Nashville, as youmentioned, is one of the most
beautiful, most engaging parksthat I've been to.
I mean, I really believe someof these new parks is what Major
League Baseball should be.
It's so intimate, theexperience is so electric that

(48:53):
I've really felt that baseballshould be enjoyed by less than
10,000 people.
I mean, I think that's thesweet spot for me is 4,000
probably.
I really like that level.
I think that creates theintimacy and the community.
You know I had someone at thePickles game recently say, oh,
this is the place to be.
There's the commissioner uphere or our state senators over
there and like, yeah, that's thepoint of a community gathering

(49:15):
is that you get to see all thesepeople.
So I would say, you know I'vebeen to a lot of stadiums.
I'd love to hear what yourfavorites are.
I think they're all reallyinteresting, for I mean, you see
there's roller coasters atBrooklyn Cyclones and there's
the Altoona Curve as a rollercoaster, and you know they're
all so interesting.
I think the opportunity is howdo you tell the story of your

(49:37):
community through thatexperience and I think the best
minor league teams.
You walk out of there sayinglike, oh yeah, that barbecue
sauce was amazing.
I'm so glad I went there.
I would never have tried thatvinegar based thing and that's
what you get in North Carolina.
I think that's when you'redoing it well, yeah.

Guy C (49:53):
So I will say, alan, if you haven't been, the Salt Lake
City Bees their new stadiumamazing, because the backdrop is
the mountains, so you couldjust sit there at home plate and
look out, and it's just.
The venue is absolutelybreathtaking too.
I agree 100% with what you said.
Those minor league teams, theballparks, they're such part of
the community, it's awesome,that's great part of the
community.

Alan M (50:13):
It's awesome, that's great.
No, I had not been to Salt Lakeyet, but, funny, I was just
looking at a report and they'relike they absolutely, from a
retail perspective, are one ofthe absolute top teams in minor
league baseball.
So they, you know, we can seethe value in building a new
experience, a new stadium.
It absolutely reinvents thewhole community.

Rich H (50:28):
All right.
So before we let you go andcreate your next business, one
curve ball, because I know youwon't say the Yankees and
Metallica.

Alan M (50:42):
Dream collaboration, an artist and a sports team and who
knows, maybe they're listeningright now and they're going to
pick up a phone.
Well, there are a couple ofinteresting ideas we're working
on and, as growing up aBaltimore Orioles fan because I
didn't know anyone else was anOrioles fan and they had a
really cool logo and I love thejerseys in the early 80s I
really wanted to bring somethingthat was special to that, and I
think working with somebodylike a Joan Jett that's a huge

(51:03):
Orioles fan would be somethingthat would be really, really
cool.
I think the best collabs aregoing to be the musicians that
are obsessed with their localteam and I think those are the
ones you know when, when we canpull off a Jack White collab, uh
, with the Detroit Tigers.
I think those are the kinds ofthings that are really going to

(51:24):
be moving and meaningful,because I think the design and
everything we would do to launchit is going to be really
elevated.
So they're coming.
There's a lot of fun onescoming back, coming coming
through over the next year, uh,that we have some, some things
we're working on.

Rich H (51:36):
Outstanding.
Well, appreciate you joining ustoday.
This has been a uh, it's amasterclass.
It's uh.
I love the passion that youbring in for sports, for music,
but for authenticity, communityand damn good merch.

Alan M (51:50):
Uh, thanks, rich.
Well, it's always a pleasure.