June 3, 2025 • 21 mins
The Plant Paradox and Lectin-Free Eating
Introduction:
This briefing document synthesizes information from excerpts featuring Dr. Steven Gundry and a WebMD article on the Plant Paradox diet (also known as the lectin-free diet). The core concept of this approach is that certain proteins in plants, called lectins, are "anti-nutrients" that can contribute to chronic health conditions such as inflammation, autoimmune diseases, and weight gain. The diet advocates for avoiding or carefully preparing foods high in lectins, while emphasizing foods considered low in these proteins and rich in beneficial nutrients like antioxidants and healthy fats.
Key Themes and Ideas:
- Lectins as "Anti-Nutrients":
- Dr. Steven Gundry, the proponent of the Plant Paradox diet, claims that lectins are a defense mechanism used by plants to deter being eaten.
- The WebMD article explains that lectins are proteins that bind carbohydrates and are not easily broken down during digestion.
- High levels of lectins, especially when raw or undercooked, can cause digestive upset (nausea, vomiting, stomach upset, diarrhea, bloating, gas).
- Dr. Gundry associates lectins with contributing to various chronic health conditions and weight gain in his patients.
- Identifying High-Lectin Foods (Foods to Avoid):
- Both sources provide lists of foods to avoid due to their high lectin content. These lists are extensive and include many commonly considered "healthy" foods.
- Grains: Wheat (including wheatgrass), corn products, brown rice, quinoa, barley, rice.
- Beans and Legumes: Chickpeas, lentils, peas, edamame, tofu, peanuts, lima beans, red kidney beans, split peas. (Note: Some beans can be made safer by pressure cooking).
- Certain Fruits and Vegetables: Bell peppers, chili peppers, cucumbers, eggplant, goji berries, melons (any kind), pumpkins, squashes (any kind), tomatillos, tomatoes, zucchini, bananas (when ripe). These are often referred to as "nightshades."
- Certain Nuts and Seeds: Sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, chia seeds, almonds with peels, cashews.
- Traditional Dairy: Products containing casein A1 protein (most cow's milk products from American cows).
- Certain Oils: Corn, cottonseed, grapeseed, peanut, safflower, soy, sunflower, "vegetable" oils, and partially hydrogenated oils.
- Processed Foods and Sugars: Bread, cereal, cookies, crackers, pasta, pastry, potato chips, refined sugar, artificial sweeteners, granola bars (often high in sugar, lectins, and glyphosate).
- Identifying Low-Lectin Foods (Foods to Emphasize):
- The diet encourages the consumption of foods low in lectins, often those high in antioxidants and omega-3s.
- Certain Nuts and Seeds: Macadamia nuts, walnuts, pistachios, pecans, sacha inchi seeds, baru nut seeds, basil seeds, flaxseeds, hempseeds, sesame seeds.
- Fruits: Pomegranates, kiwis, blackberries, blueberries. Green bananas (eaten frozen like a popsicle to utilize resistant starch).
- Vegetables: Artichoke, asparagus, avocados, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, cilantro, garlic, greens (collard, mustard), kale, olives, spinach, sweet potatoes/yams.
- Oils: Olive oil (particularly for its polyphenols), avocado oil, coconut oil, flaxseed oil, MCT oil, sesame oil.
- Dairy Alternatives: Goat milk and goat cheese, sheep milk yogurt, goat milk yogurt, A2 milk yogurt, coconut yogurt (plain). Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese.
- Meats and Seafood: Pasture-raised chicken and t
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, welcome to the Deep Dive.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Today we're diving into a stack of material all
focused on diet and health.
We've got some reallyinteresting insights, kind of
from a doctor's perspective, oncommon foods, snacks.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, and plus a look at the science, or at least the
claims, behind a pretty populardiet approach associated with
that perspective.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Exactly so.
The mission for this Deep Diveis really to unpack the key
ideas presented in these sources.
We're gonna look at conceptslike lectins in everyday snacks.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Right and pinpoint some foods that might be
surprising.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
No-nos, you know, according to this material, and
also explore a different way ofthinking about how food connects
to energy, hopefully helpingyou sort through some of the
well conflicting advice that'sout there.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Absolutely so.
Our sources they're mostlyclips from a health-focused
YouTube channel quite popular,and also a detailed article that
reviews the diet tied to it.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, it gives us a very specific lens, doesn't it?
To view what we eat, especiallylike when we're just grabbing a
quick bite.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
For sure.
Okay, let's unpack this then.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So the core idea, it seems from these sources,
revolves around these proteinscalled lectins.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And they're found in lots of foods, right Even ones
we generally think are prettyhealthy.
Right, and the theory that'sput forward is that these
lectins well, they aren't justsitting there, they can act as
anti-nutrients or even likedefense mechanisms for the
plants themselves, Sort of theplant's way of saying don't eat
me.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Ah yeah, like a little deterrent system.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Exactly.
The sources point out lectinsare supposedly found in various
parts seeds, grains, skins,rinds, even leaves.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And the concern they highlight is that in high
amounts, especially uncooked,like raw kidney beans are the
classic example.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh yeah, definitely don't eat those raw.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Right, they can cause some pretty serious acute
stomach issues.
We're talking nausea, vomiting,diarrhea, bloating gas.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And they also mentioned making red blood cells
clump together, which soundswell not good.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Not good at all.
Now, the plant paradox diet,which one of the sources reviews
, is apparently built right onthis idea.
It suggests avoiding, or reallylimiting, high lectin foods.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Claiming it can help with things like chronic
inflammation and even autoimmunediseases.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay, but the review article we looked at kind of
pumps the brakes a bit there,doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It does.
Yeah, the review articleemphasizes that the research
specifically backing up theplant paradox diet's broader
claims hasn't really been widelyreproduced or independently
confirmed, and it also notesthat you know typical Western
diets mainly because we cookthings like beans and grains.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right Boiling pressure cooking.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Exactly those methods mean we're already consuming
relatively low levels of activelectins compared to if we ate
them raw.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Okay, that's a really important piece of context.
So if cooking already dealswith a lot of the lectin issue
for many foods, why the pushfrom the YouTube source to
completely cut out things likebeans and whole grains?
I mean, those have knownbenefits, right for diabetes,
heart disease, when cookedproperly, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, the YouTube source really doubles down on
the potential harm of lectins,even in cooked foods, especially
for people they considersensitive.
They argue for completeavoidance or you know very
specific prep methods foroptimal health, particularly if
(03:26):
you've got underlyinginflammation, or even wise,
given potential nutrient gaps.
Based on the broader science.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So a definite difference in emphasis there.
Ok, fascinating contrast.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So let's take the perspective from that YouTube
source for a bit the focus onminimizing lectins and maybe
other problematic things andapply it to something really
relatable.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Snacks.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes, the eat this, not that list Always fun.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay, where do we start?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Seeds Right Seeds.
So the source advisesspecifically avoiding common
ones like sunflower seeds andpumpkin seeds, and their oils
too.
Calls them loaded with lectins.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Loaded with lectins.
Wow, strong words.
I snack on sunflower seedssometimes.
What are the alternatives then,according to this?
Instead, they recommend thingslike satcha, anti-seeds, baru,
nuts or pomegranate seeds.
They say these are lectin-freeand high in protein.
Okay, but they are clear.
It's not all seeds, justspecific ones.
They flag.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Got it?
Good clarification, okay,moving on Chips Big one Potato
chips.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Definite avoid.
Potatoes themselves are calledlectin bombs in the source.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Again with the strong language.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, and the chips are usually cooked in what they
describe as lectin-rich oromega-6 heavy oils.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Right the omega-6 versus omega-3 balance issue.
That seems to come up a lot inhealth discussions.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It does Too much.
Omega-6 relative to omega-3 isoften linked to inflammation,
pathways and corn chips.
Same deal with the oils Plus.
The source claims corncomponents can cause antibodies
or leaky gut in many of theirpatients.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Leaky gut.
Okay, just briefly.
In this context that refers tothe idea that the gut lining
becomes more permeable.
Right, letting stuff through,that shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Exactly that's the theory they're working with that
these particles get into thebloodstream, trigger the immune
system, cause inflammation.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Got it so with potatoes and corn chips out.
What about all those grain-freeor lectin-free chips popping up
everywhere?
They sound like they should beokay, based on this.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Ah, but this is where the source issues a major heads
up.
Don't just trust the front ofthe package.
Okay, they give an example Achip made from cauliflower
carrots.
Cassava sounds good,lectin-free ingredients, but
cooked in sunflower oil whichthey flag, and it had chia seeds
, another ingredient they haveissues with later.
But the bigger point they make,maybe the most important one
(05:43):
here, is that many of thesealternatives, despite the health
halo, are just simplecarbohydrates, basically sugar
bombs in disguise.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Okay, explain that sugar bomb calculation they use.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So they look right at the nutrition facts.
Let's say, eight chips have 19grams of carbs and two grams of
fiber.
You subtract the fiber.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You do net carbs.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, 17 grams of net carbs.
Now, since roughly four gramsof carbs acts like a teaspoon of
sugar in your body, well, 17grams is over four teaspoons of
sugar equivalent per serving.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Wow, just from the carbs in those healthy chips.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Exactly.
You have another example acassava chip with avocado oil
and coconut flour still came outto 17 grams net carbs.
Right, the point is, your bodyprocesses those simple carbs
very quickly, much like sugar.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And they actually saw this affect patients.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, they report.
Patients switching to thesehealthy chips saw increases in
triglycerides, insulin, insulinresistance.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
The takeaway stark.
Ignore the buzzwords.
Look at the actual carb andsugar numbers.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Fascinating and a bit scary.
Ok, next up, popcorn, oftenseen as a whole grain, maybe a
better choice.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Well, regular popcorn is on the avoid list too.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Oh, why?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Simple reason it's corn and they claim the popping
process somehow exposes thegrain, making it digest super
fast and turn straight intosugar in your body.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Ah, the rapid sugar spike concern again.
Is there any popcornalternative?
They suggest.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, sorghum popcorn.
Apparently no lectins, butthey're careful to say it's not
like a health food replacement,so got to watch it.
Yeah, half a cup still hasabout eight grams of carbs, one
gram of fiber, so seven gramsnet carbs.
That's almost two teaspoons ofsugar equivalent.
Their strategy for it is uniquethey suggest soaking the
sorghum popcorn in olive oil.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Soaking it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, basically using the popcorn as a vehicle, a
delivery device.
They call it for olive oil,which they consider a real
health food because of itsbeneficial compounds.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That is quite specific.
Okay, moving on, hummus Seemshealthy, right Chickpeas.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Store-bought hummus gets flagged why?
Chickpeas are beans legumes and, according to the source,
loaded with lectins.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Ah, okay, so chickpeas fall under the leptin
warning too.
What's the alternative?
Make your own, pretty muchDefinitely.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Either make it yourself using pressure-cooked
chickpeas.
They specifically mentionbrands like Eden or Jovial that
use pressure cooking, claimingit destroys the lectins.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
So pressure cooking is key for beans and legumes in
this view.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Seems to be, or the other option is making macadamia
nut hummus.
They apparently have a recipefor that on their channel.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Macadamia nut hummus Interesting, okay.
Almonds, super popular, almondmilk, almond flour, whole
almonds.
What's the verdict?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
This one surprised me too.
They say the almond peel has apretty nasty lectin that many
people react to.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
The peel.
So like Marcona almonds, orblanched ones without the skin,
those are good.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Safer for most people is how they put it.
But this is a big but If youhave existing gut issues or
autoimmune disease, they claim.
A large percentage of theirpatients react to all parts of
the almond flour milk, even theblanched ones.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Wow, even without the peel.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, their advice is basically buyer beware Almonds
might not be your friend ifyou're dealing with those
conditions.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's huge, considering how almonds are in
everything healthy.
What do they suggest instead?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Plenty of other nuts get the green light Macadamia
nuts, walnuts, pistachios,pecans.
They even suggest mixing thembaking with olive oil and herbs.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
More olive oil.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yep, their advice is pretty blunt Just push the
olives aside in the grocerystore.
Strong stance Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yogurt.
Greek yogurt gets a lot ofpraise for protein.
What's the issue here?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Avoid it.
They say Specifically Greekyogurt or any yogurt from
typical American cows.
The reason cited isinflammatory casein A1 protein.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Casein A1.
Okay, can you explain thatquickly?
Different types of milk protein.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, basically, different cow breeds produce
milk with different caseinvariants.
A1 is presented by the sourceas being potentially
inflammatory or harder to digestfor some people.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Compared to A2.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Right A2 casein found in certain breeds or in sheep
or goat milk is presented asbeing better tolerated, so the
alternatives are sheep milkyogurt, goat milk yogurt,
coconut yogurt or A2 milk yogurt.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And crucially, it has to be plain, right, no flavors.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Absolutely.
It must be plain.
Any flavored ones are outbecause of sugar or artificial
sweeteners, like Splendo, whichthey also don't like.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, plain only.
But what about the sugar listedon the label, the lactose?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Ah, good point.
They explain that nuance.
On plain yogurt, even iflactose is listed, the bacteria
eat most of it duringfermentation, so there's very
little actual sugar left.
Same for plain coconut yogurt.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Gotcha.
So the label might bemisleading for plain yogurt
sugar content and if you want itsweet, they suggest using
Allulose.
Allulose.
That's one of those rare sugars, isn't?
It Doesn't impact blood sugarmuch.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's the idea.
Yeah, it occurs naturally insmall amounts, provides few
calories and seems to bemetabolized differently.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Interesting.
Okay, classic kid snack Ants ona log Celery peanut butter
raisins.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Problematic.
According to this source,Peanut butter labeled a lectin
bomb.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh, boy, and the raisins.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Pure sugar, pretty straightforward.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So what's the approved alternative?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Keep the celery, but swap the peanut butter for
macadamia nut butter, pistachiobutter or walnut butter.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Following the nut recommendations from earlier.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Exactly, and instead of raisins, add pomegranate
seeds, especially for a holidaytouch, they suggest.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Cute, Okay.
Chia seed pudding it'severywhere.
Health cafes love it.
Fiber or omega-3s what's not tolike?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well, this is another surprising one from the source.
They acknowledge the fiber andthe omega-3s and that humans do
absorb some of those omega-3s,but they cite studies suggesting
chia seeds can actuallyincrease C-reactive protein.
Crp, which is a marker forInflammation yeah, a common
marker for inflammation in thebody.
So the concern is while you getsome benefits, the potential to
(11:39):
increase inflammation is amajor drawback in their view.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Wow, that runs completely counter to the usual
health message about chia.
What's the swap?
Basil seeds Basil seeds, likefrom the herb.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Kind of they're related part of the mint family.
According to the source,they're loaded with antioxidants
, omega-3s.
They make that same gel textureas chia.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But without the inflammation concern.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Exactly.
They say basil seeds don't seemto raise CRP levels.
They mentioned they're becomingeasier to find.
Zen Basil is a brand they likeand you just use them, exactly
like chia seeds.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Huh, basil seeds definitely something new to look
into.
Okay, granola bars Quick, easysnack.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
These get a really harsh assessment.
Basically called a bar of sugar, lectins and glyphosate to
round up, Yikes Glyphosate,that's the herbicide right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
They found that in griddle bars.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They cite testing by the Environmental Working Group
that's a nonprofit advocacygroup which reportedly found
high levels of glyphosate, andapparently even a banned
herbicide, in almost all thebars they tested.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Wow, so the source views them as.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
A pesticide, herbicide-laden sugar bomb their
words.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, that's pretty damning.
Are there any bars that get apass?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
They suggest looking at alternatives, maybe some from
the Gundry MD line theymentioned, or bars in the keto
category generally Key T.
Big caution here.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Let me guess.
Read the label Every singletime.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
They stress that ingredients change constantly.
Things like peanut butter, thelectin bomb or Splenda sucralose
can get snuck in.
Even with brands you think areokay.
You have to check the labelevery time you buy.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Good reminder about formulations changing.
Okay, last snack item Bananas.
A staple for so many people.
Breakfast pre-workout.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Two main issues raised here by the source.
First, they say bananasfrequently rank high on food
sensitivity tests for theirpatients Suggests they might
promote inflammation for somepeople.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Okay, potential inflammation link and the second
problem.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's about ripeness, especially ripe bananas.
The starch converts to fructosethat gets absorbed really
quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Like a sugar hit.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, and they claim this rapid fructose absorption
can raise triglycerides andpotentially, over time, increase
mitochondrial damage in theliver and kidneys.
They explicitly say a ripebanana is not good for sustained
energy and is the last thingyou want before a workout.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Whoa.
That totally contradicts thecommon advice Eat a banana for
energy before exercise.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Right, they're saying no Bad idea from their
perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So is there any way to eat bananas according to them
, or just avoid them entirely?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
There's a very specific method Buy them green,
really green.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Peel them, which they admit is hard when they're that
green.
Then freeze the peeled greenbananas.
Freeze them, yep.
Then saw one out.
When you want to eat it, kindof like a popsicle, it won't be
sweet, obviously.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It doesn't sound too appealing.
Why do this?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Because green bananas are full of resistant starch.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Ah, resistant starch, that's the stuff that feeds
your gut bacteria, right?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yep, exactly Great food for your microbiome.
The source links feeding yourgut bacteria well to producing
beneficial compounds thatultimately help maximize
mitochondrial energy production.
They even suggest doing thisgreen banana thing for like four
or five days once a month,claiming it acts a bit like
calorie restriction because ofhow that starch is processed.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Wow, okay, that is a completely different approach to
bananas.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Definitely shifts the perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
So, moving beyond these specific snack do's and
don'ts based on lectins andsugar and whatnot, the sources
also connect this to a broaderidea about energy right Not just
feeling energetic, but actualcellular energy.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, they make a really interesting distinction.
True energy, they argue, isn'tjust that buzz from sugar or
coffee.
It's fundamentally about ATPproduction.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
ATP, the energy currency our cells run on, made
by the mitochondria.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Precisely those little powerhouses in our cells.
Energy is about making themwork efficiently, not just
getting a quick jolt.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, so how do our modern diets mess that up?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
according to this view, the issue they highlight
is bombarding the mitochondriawith too much too fast all at
once.
Simple proteins, simple sugars,simple fats all hitting the
system simultaneously, fromprocessed foods or certain meal
combos.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And that causes.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Rush hour gridlock is the analogy they use.
When you overwhelm themitochondria like that, the
processes get clogged up andparadoxically, they end up
producing less ATP, less actualenergy, than if they were fed
fuel more steadily or indifferent combinations.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Gridlock in your mitochondria.
That sounds counterintuitive.
You'd think more fuel equalsmore energy.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right, but they argue it's about the type of fuel and
the timing.
Too much simple stuff all atonce jams the system.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
This seems like it would apply directly to a lot of
common energy products.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
For sure, cotein drinks and bars often flag
because they combine simpleproteins and sugars, creating
that perfect gridlock scenario.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And fruit smoothies often seen as healthy.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Also get a strong thumbs down from this
perspective.
Breaking down fruit into simplefructose, especially liquefied
in a smoothie where the fiber ispulverized.
They call that the number oneway to impair liver
mitochondrial function, reduceATP and potentially increase
fatty liver.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So definitely not a good pre-workout choice in their
book.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
They say it's the last thing you'd want before
exercising, which flips thatcommon wisdom right on its head.
What about exercising on anempty stomach, then?
Is that better from thisviewpoint?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
They mention human trials suggesting that
exercising fasted can actuallyincrease ATP production and
enhance the workout's benefits.
Use that old wise tale.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
About not swimming after eating.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, the idea being, if your blood flow is busy
digesting food, it's divertedaway from your muscles.
Eating right before exercise,they argue, reduces blood
available to the muscles.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Makes sense when you put it that way.
They also touched on theketogenic diet in athletes,
didn't they?
Some people see keto as thisultimate energy source.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
They did and they cited research showing athletic
performance often plummets.
Their word in the first fewdays or weeks of starting keto
Plummets Really.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, plummets their word in the first few days or
weeks of starting keto PlummetsReally, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They mentioned a study with racewalkers who
needed significantly more oxygenon keto versus a carb diet to
maintain the same speed.
They present this as evidencethat ketones might not be the
instant super fuel.
Some claim, at least notinitially or for all types of
performance.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Interesting counterpoint to the keto hype.
So if simple carbs plus simpleprotein plus fats equals
gridlock and even keto mightinitially tank performance, what
is the energy recommendationfrom these sources?
How do we fuel ourselves?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
A pretty memorable image.
They paint Eat like a gorillawho lives in Italy.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Okay, I need you to break that down for me.
A gorilla in Italy.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So the gorilla part refers toeating lots of leaves, think
leafy greens.
They're packed withphytonutrients, polyphenols and,
importantly, fiber.
That fiber feeds your gutbacteria Right, feeding the
microbiome Exactly.
And well-fed gut bacteriaproduce beneficial compounds,
energy substrates that yourcells can use efficiently.
Then the lives in Italy, part.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Olive oil.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Also rich in polyphenols Good for the gut,
Tastes great.
The idea is that thiscombination lots of greens and
fiber plus high quality oliveoil supports your gut bacteria,
which in turn, helps maximizeyour mitochondrial energy
production for sustained,efficient energy.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So it's less about immediate fuel and more about
cultivating the internalenvironment, the gut and the
mitochondria.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
That's exactly the shift in focus supporting the
whole system long term ratherthan just looking for quick
energy spikes.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Okay, wow, that's a lot to take in.
So bringing this all back toyou, the listener what's the
takeaway from this deep dive?
What does it all mean?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, it definitely shows that figuring out what's
healthy even for something assimple as a snack can be way
more complex than it looks onthe surface, especially when you
consider these specificperspectives.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It really hammers home the importance of looking
past the marketing right, beyondlabels like grain-free or
natural, and actually digginginto the ingredients list.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And thinking about the potential impact of things
like Leckins, or the differencebetween simple carbs and fiber,
or even specific proteins likecasein A1.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And even how food is prepared, like pressure cooking
beans or freezing green bananas.
Those details mattered a lot inthis source material.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Totally, and it certainly challenges some very
common ideas about energy, foodsand fueling workouts.
It suggests that maybe focusingon your gut health and how your
mitochondria function might bea more effective long-term
strategy.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Okay, so let's recap this journey quickly.
We started with this concept oflectins the plant paradox idea.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Then we dissected a whole bunch of common snacks,
uncovering some prettysurprising avoid recommendations
and interesting swaps, allbased on this specific framework
.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And finally, we explored this different
perspective on food and energy,moving away from just quick fuel
and focusing on mitochondrialhealth and the gut microbiome.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, the core message from these sources seems
to be pay close attention toingredients, understand how
different foods are actuallyprocessed by your body, and
consider the downstream effectson your gut and your cellular
energy production.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
So here's where it gets really interesting to think
about.
If you take that idea from thesource seriously that combining
simple protein and simple sugarcreates gridlock for your
mitochondria, does that changehow you look at maybe seemingly
innocent food combinations youeat, or those common energy
boosting snacks like thatprotein bar or fruit smoothie
(21:01):
you might grab, thinking it'shealthy?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Definitely something to ponder as you reach for your
next snack choice.
Okay, welcome to the Deep Dive.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Great to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Today we're diving into a stack of material all
focused on diet and health.
We've got some reallyinteresting insights, kind of
from a doctor's perspective, oncommon foods, snacks.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, and plus a look at the science, or at least the
claims, behind a pretty populardiet approach associated with
that perspective.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Exactly so.
The mission for this Deep Diveis really to unpack the key
ideas presented in these sources.
We're gonna look at conceptslike lectins in everyday snacks.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Right and pinpoint some foods that might be
surprising.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
No-nos, you know, according to this material, and
also explore a different way ofthinking about how food connects
to energy, hopefully helpingyou sort through some of the
well conflicting advice that'sout there.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Absolutely so.
Our sources they're mostlyclips from a health-focused
YouTube channel quite popular,and also a detailed article that
reviews the diet tied to it.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, it gives us a very specific lens, doesn't it?
To view what we eat, especiallylike when we're just grabbing a
quick bite.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
For sure.
Okay, let's unpack this then.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
So the core idea, it seems from these sources,
revolves around these proteinscalled lectins.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
And they're found in lots of foods, right Even ones
we generally think are prettyhealthy.
Right, and the theory that'sput forward is that these
lectins well, they aren't justsitting there, they can act as
anti-nutrients or even likedefense mechanisms for the
plants themselves, Sort of theplant's way of saying don't eat
me.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Ah yeah, like a little deterrent system.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Exactly.
The sources point out lectinsare supposedly found in various
parts seeds, grains, skins,rinds, even leaves.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And the concern they highlight is that in high
amounts, especially uncooked,like raw kidney beans are the
classic example.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh yeah, definitely don't eat those raw.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Right, they can cause some pretty serious acute
stomach issues.
We're talking nausea, vomiting,diarrhea, bloating gas.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And they also mentioned making red blood cells
clump together, which soundswell not good.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Not good at all.
Now, the plant paradox diet,which one of the sources reviews
, is apparently built right onthis idea.
It suggests avoiding, or reallylimiting, high lectin foods.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Claiming it can help with things like chronic
inflammation and even autoimmunediseases.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Okay, but the review article we looked at kind of
pumps the brakes a bit there,doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
It does.
Yeah, the review articleemphasizes that the research
specifically backing up theplant paradox diet's broader
claims hasn't really been widelyreproduced or independently
confirmed, and it also notesthat you know typical Western
diets mainly because we cookthings like beans and grains.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right Boiling pressure cooking.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Exactly those methods mean we're already consuming
relatively low levels of activelectins compared to if we ate
them raw.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Okay, that's a really important piece of context.
So if cooking already dealswith a lot of the lectin issue
for many foods, why the pushfrom the YouTube source to
completely cut out things likebeans and whole grains?
I mean, those have knownbenefits, right for diabetes,
heart disease, when cookedproperly, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, the YouTube source really doubles down on
the potential harm of lectins,even in cooked foods, especially
for people they considersensitive.
They argue for completeavoidance or you know very
specific prep methods foroptimal health, particularly if
(03:26):
you've got underlyinginflammation, or even wise,
given potential nutrient gaps.
Based on the broader science.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
So a definite difference in emphasis there.
Ok, fascinating contrast.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So let's take the perspective from that YouTube
source for a bit the focus onminimizing lectins and maybe
other problematic things andapply it to something really
relatable.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Snacks.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yes, the eat this, not that list Always fun.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay, where do we start?
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Seeds Right Seeds.
So the source advisesspecifically avoiding common
ones like sunflower seeds andpumpkin seeds, and their oils
too.
Calls them loaded with lectins.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Loaded with lectins.
Wow, strong words.
I snack on sunflower seedssometimes.
What are the alternatives then,according to this?
Instead, they recommend thingslike satcha, anti-seeds, baru,
nuts or pomegranate seeds.
They say these are lectin-freeand high in protein.
Okay, but they are clear.
It's not all seeds, justspecific ones.
They flag.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Got it?
Good clarification, okay,moving on Chips Big one Potato
chips.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Definite avoid.
Potatoes themselves are calledlectin bombs in the source.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Again with the strong language.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, and the chips are usually cooked in what they
describe as lectin-rich oromega-6 heavy oils.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Right the omega-6 versus omega-3 balance issue.
That seems to come up a lot inhealth discussions.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It does Too much.
Omega-6 relative to omega-3 isoften linked to inflammation,
pathways and corn chips.
Same deal with the oils Plus.
The source claims corncomponents can cause antibodies
or leaky gut in many of theirpatients.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Leaky gut.
Okay, just briefly.
In this context that refers tothe idea that the gut lining
becomes more permeable.
Right, letting stuff through,that shouldn't.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Exactly that's the theory they're working with that
these particles get into thebloodstream, trigger the immune
system, cause inflammation.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Got it so with potatoes and corn chips out.
What about all those grain-freeor lectin-free chips popping up
everywhere?
They sound like they should beokay, based on this.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Ah, but this is where the source issues a major heads
up.
Don't just trust the front ofthe package.
Okay, they give an example Achip made from cauliflower
carrots.
Cassava sounds good,lectin-free ingredients, but
cooked in sunflower oil whichthey flag, and it had chia seeds
, another ingredient they haveissues with later.
But the bigger point they make,maybe the most important one
(05:43):
here, is that many of thesealternatives, despite the health
halo, are just simplecarbohydrates, basically sugar
bombs in disguise.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Okay, explain that sugar bomb calculation they use.
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So they look right at the nutrition facts.
Let's say, eight chips have 19grams of carbs and two grams of
fiber.
You subtract the fiber.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You do net carbs.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, 17 grams of net carbs.
Now, since roughly four gramsof carbs acts like a teaspoon of
sugar in your body, well, 17grams is over four teaspoons of
sugar equivalent per serving.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Wow, just from the carbs in those healthy chips.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Exactly.
You have another example acassava chip with avocado oil
and coconut flour still came outto 17 grams net carbs.
Right, the point is, your bodyprocesses those simple carbs
very quickly, much like sugar.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And they actually saw this affect patients.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, they report.
Patients switching to thesehealthy chips saw increases in
triglycerides, insulin, insulinresistance.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
The takeaway stark.
Ignore the buzzwords.
Look at the actual carb andsugar numbers.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Fascinating and a bit scary.
Ok, next up, popcorn, oftenseen as a whole grain, maybe a
better choice.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Well, regular popcorn is on the avoid list too.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Oh, why?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Simple reason it's corn and they claim the popping
process somehow exposes thegrain, making it digest super
fast and turn straight intosugar in your body.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Ah, the rapid sugar spike concern again.
Is there any popcornalternative?
They suggest.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, sorghum popcorn.
Apparently no lectins, butthey're careful to say it's not
like a health food replacement,so got to watch it.
Yeah, half a cup still hasabout eight grams of carbs, one
gram of fiber, so seven gramsnet carbs.
That's almost two teaspoons ofsugar equivalent.
Their strategy for it is uniquethey suggest soaking the
sorghum popcorn in olive oil.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Soaking it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, basically using the popcorn as a vehicle, a
delivery device.
They call it for olive oil,which they consider a real
health food because of itsbeneficial compounds.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
That is quite specific.
Okay, moving on, hummus Seemshealthy, right Chickpeas.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Store-bought hummus gets flagged why?
Chickpeas are beans legumes and, according to the source,
loaded with lectins.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Ah, okay, so chickpeas fall under the leptin
warning too.
What's the alternative?
Make your own, pretty muchDefinitely.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Either make it yourself using pressure-cooked
chickpeas.
They specifically mentionbrands like Eden or Jovial that
use pressure cooking, claimingit destroys the lectins.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
So pressure cooking is key for beans and legumes in
this view.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Seems to be, or the other option is making macadamia
nut hummus.
They apparently have a recipefor that on their channel.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Macadamia nut hummus Interesting, okay.
Almonds, super popular, almondmilk, almond flour, whole
almonds.
What's the verdict?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
This one surprised me too.
They say the almond peel has apretty nasty lectin that many
people react to.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
The peel.
So like Marcona almonds, orblanched ones without the skin,
those are good.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Safer for most people is how they put it.
But this is a big but If youhave existing gut issues or
autoimmune disease, they claim.
A large percentage of theirpatients react to all parts of
the almond flour milk, even theblanched ones.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Wow, even without the peel.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, their advice is basically buyer beware Almonds
might not be your friend ifyou're dealing with those
conditions.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
That's huge, considering how almonds are in
everything healthy.
What do they suggest instead?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Plenty of other nuts get the green light Macadamia
nuts, walnuts, pistachios,pecans.
They even suggest mixing thembaking with olive oil and herbs.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
More olive oil.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yep, their advice is pretty blunt Just push the
olives aside in the grocerystore.
Strong stance Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yogurt.
Greek yogurt gets a lot ofpraise for protein.
What's the issue here?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Avoid it.
They say Specifically Greekyogurt or any yogurt from
typical American cows.
The reason cited isinflammatory casein A1 protein.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Casein A1.
Okay, can you explain thatquickly?
Different types of milk protein.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, basically, different cow breeds produce
milk with different caseinvariants.
A1 is presented by the sourceas being potentially
inflammatory or harder to digestfor some people.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Compared to A2.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Right A2 casein found in certain breeds or in sheep
or goat milk is presented asbeing better tolerated, so the
alternatives are sheep milkyogurt, goat milk yogurt,
coconut yogurt or A2 milk yogurt.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And crucially, it has to be plain, right, no flavors.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Absolutely.
It must be plain.
Any flavored ones are outbecause of sugar or artificial
sweeteners, like Splendo, whichthey also don't like.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Okay, plain only.
But what about the sugar listedon the label, the lactose?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Ah, good point.
They explain that nuance.
On plain yogurt, even iflactose is listed, the bacteria
eat most of it duringfermentation, so there's very
little actual sugar left.
Same for plain coconut yogurt.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Gotcha.
So the label might bemisleading for plain yogurt
sugar content and if you want itsweet, they suggest using
Allulose.
Allulose.
That's one of those rare sugars, isn't?
It Doesn't impact blood sugarmuch.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
That's the idea.
Yeah, it occurs naturally insmall amounts, provides few
calories and seems to bemetabolized differently.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Interesting.
Okay, classic kid snack Ants ona log Celery peanut butter
raisins.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Problematic.
According to this source,Peanut butter labeled a lectin
bomb.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh, boy, and the raisins.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Pure sugar, pretty straightforward.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
So what's the approved alternative?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Keep the celery, but swap the peanut butter for
macadamia nut butter, pistachiobutter or walnut butter.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Following the nut recommendations from earlier.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Exactly, and instead of raisins, add pomegranate
seeds, especially for a holidaytouch, they suggest.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Cute, Okay.
Chia seed pudding it'severywhere.
Health cafes love it.
Fiber or omega-3s what's not tolike?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well, this is another surprising one from the source.
They acknowledge the fiber andthe omega-3s and that humans do
absorb some of those omega-3s,but they cite studies suggesting
chia seeds can actuallyincrease C-reactive protein.
Crp, which is a marker forInflammation yeah, a common
marker for inflammation in thebody.
So the concern is while you getsome benefits, the potential to
(11:39):
increase inflammation is amajor drawback in their view.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Wow, that runs completely counter to the usual
health message about chia.
What's the swap?
Basil seeds Basil seeds, likefrom the herb.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Kind of they're related part of the mint family.
According to the source,they're loaded with antioxidants
, omega-3s.
They make that same gel textureas chia.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
But without the inflammation concern.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Exactly.
They say basil seeds don't seemto raise CRP levels.
They mentioned they're becomingeasier to find.
Zen Basil is a brand they likeand you just use them, exactly
like chia seeds.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Huh, basil seeds definitely something new to look
into.
Okay, granola bars Quick, easysnack.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
These get a really harsh assessment.
Basically called a bar of sugar, lectins and glyphosate to
round up, Yikes Glyphosate,that's the herbicide right.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
They found that in griddle bars.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They cite testing by the Environmental Working Group
that's a nonprofit advocacygroup which reportedly found
high levels of glyphosate, andapparently even a banned
herbicide, in almost all thebars they tested.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Wow, so the source views them as.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
A pesticide, herbicide-laden sugar bomb their
words.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, that's pretty damning.
Are there any bars that get apass?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
They suggest looking at alternatives, maybe some from
the Gundry MD line theymentioned, or bars in the keto
category generally Key T.
Big caution here.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Let me guess.
Read the label Every singletime.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
They stress that ingredients change constantly.
Things like peanut butter, thelectin bomb or Splenda sucralose
can get snuck in.
Even with brands you think areokay.
You have to check the labelevery time you buy.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Good reminder about formulations changing.
Okay, last snack item Bananas.
A staple for so many people.
Breakfast pre-workout.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Two main issues raised here by the source.
First, they say bananasfrequently rank high on food
sensitivity tests for theirpatients Suggests they might
promote inflammation for somepeople.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Okay, potential inflammation link and the second
problem.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
It's about ripeness, especially ripe bananas.
The starch converts to fructosethat gets absorbed really
quickly.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Like a sugar hit.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, and they claim this rapid fructose absorption
can raise triglycerides andpotentially, over time, increase
mitochondrial damage in theliver and kidneys.
They explicitly say a ripebanana is not good for sustained
energy and is the last thingyou want before a workout.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Whoa.
That totally contradicts thecommon advice Eat a banana for
energy before exercise.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Right, they're saying no Bad idea from their
perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
So is there any way to eat bananas according to them
, or just avoid them entirely?
Speaker 2 (14:09):
There's a very specific method Buy them green,
really green.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Peel them, which they admit is hard when they're that
green.
Then freeze the peeled greenbananas.
Freeze them, yep.
Then saw one out.
When you want to eat it, kindof like a popsicle, it won't be
sweet, obviously.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It doesn't sound too appealing.
Why do this?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Because green bananas are full of resistant starch.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Ah, resistant starch, that's the stuff that feeds
your gut bacteria, right?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yep, exactly Great food for your microbiome.
The source links feeding yourgut bacteria well to producing
beneficial compounds thatultimately help maximize
mitochondrial energy production.
They even suggest doing thisgreen banana thing for like four
or five days once a month,claiming it acts a bit like
calorie restriction because ofhow that starch is processed.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Wow, okay, that is a completely different approach to
bananas.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Definitely shifts the perspective.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
So, moving beyond these specific snack do's and
don'ts based on lectins andsugar and whatnot, the sources
also connect this to a broaderidea about energy right Not just
feeling energetic, but actualcellular energy.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, they make a really interesting distinction.
True energy, they argue, isn'tjust that buzz from sugar or
coffee.
It's fundamentally about ATPproduction.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
ATP, the energy currency our cells run on, made
by the mitochondria.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Precisely those little powerhouses in our cells.
Energy is about making themwork efficiently, not just
getting a quick jolt.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Okay, so how do our modern diets mess that up?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
according to this view, the issue they highlight
is bombarding the mitochondriawith too much too fast all at
once.
Simple proteins, simple sugars,simple fats all hitting the
system simultaneously, fromprocessed foods or certain meal
combos.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
And that causes.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Rush hour gridlock is the analogy they use.
When you overwhelm themitochondria like that, the
processes get clogged up andparadoxically, they end up
producing less ATP, less actualenergy, than if they were fed
fuel more steadily or indifferent combinations.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Gridlock in your mitochondria.
That sounds counterintuitive.
You'd think more fuel equalsmore energy.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Right, but they argue it's about the type of fuel and
the timing.
Too much simple stuff all atonce jams the system.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
This seems like it would apply directly to a lot of
common energy products.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
For sure, cotein drinks and bars often flag
because they combine simpleproteins and sugars, creating
that perfect gridlock scenario.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
And fruit smoothies often seen as healthy.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Also get a strong thumbs down from this
perspective.
Breaking down fruit into simplefructose, especially liquefied
in a smoothie where the fiber ispulverized.
They call that the number oneway to impair liver
mitochondrial function, reduceATP and potentially increase
fatty liver.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So definitely not a good pre-workout choice in their
book.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
They say it's the last thing you'd want before
exercising, which flips thatcommon wisdom right on its head.
What about exercising on anempty stomach, then?
Is that better from thisviewpoint?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
They mention human trials suggesting that
exercising fasted can actuallyincrease ATP production and
enhance the workout's benefits.
Use that old wise tale.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
About not swimming after eating.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, the idea being, if your blood flow is busy
digesting food, it's divertedaway from your muscles.
Eating right before exercise,they argue, reduces blood
available to the muscles.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Makes sense when you put it that way.
They also touched on theketogenic diet in athletes,
didn't they?
Some people see keto as thisultimate energy source.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
They did and they cited research showing athletic
performance often plummets.
Their word in the first fewdays or weeks of starting keto
Plummets Really.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, plummets their word in the first few days or
weeks of starting keto PlummetsReally, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
They mentioned a study with racewalkers who
needed significantly more oxygenon keto versus a carb diet to
maintain the same speed.
They present this as evidencethat ketones might not be the
instant super fuel.
Some claim, at least notinitially or for all types of
performance.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Interesting counterpoint to the keto hype.
So if simple carbs plus simpleprotein plus fats equals
gridlock and even keto mightinitially tank performance, what
is the energy recommendationfrom these sources?
How do we fuel ourselves?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
A pretty memorable image.
They paint Eat like a gorillawho lives in Italy.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
Okay, I need you to break that down for me.
A gorilla in Italy.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah, yeah.
So the gorilla part refers toeating lots of leaves, think
leafy greens.
They're packed withphytonutrients, polyphenols and,
importantly, fiber.
That fiber feeds your gutbacteria Right, feeding the
microbiome Exactly.
And well-fed gut bacteriaproduce beneficial compounds,
energy substrates that yourcells can use efficiently.
Then the lives in Italy, part.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Olive oil.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Also rich in polyphenols Good for the gut,
Tastes great.
The idea is that thiscombination lots of greens and
fiber plus high quality oliveoil supports your gut bacteria,
which in turn, helps maximizeyour mitochondrial energy
production for sustained,efficient energy.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
So it's less about immediate fuel and more about
cultivating the internalenvironment, the gut and the
mitochondria.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
That's exactly the shift in focus supporting the
whole system long term ratherthan just looking for quick
energy spikes.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Okay, wow, that's a lot to take in.
So bringing this all back toyou, the listener what's the
takeaway from this deep dive?
What does it all mean?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Well, it definitely shows that figuring out what's
healthy even for something assimple as a snack can be way
more complex than it looks onthe surface, especially when you
consider these specificperspectives.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It really hammers home the importance of looking
past the marketing right, beyondlabels like grain-free or
natural, and actually digginginto the ingredients list.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And thinking about the potential impact of things
like Leckins, or the differencebetween simple carbs and fiber,
or even specific proteins likecasein A1.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
And even how food is prepared, like pressure cooking
beans or freezing green bananas.
Those details mattered a lot inthis source material.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Totally, and it certainly challenges some very
common ideas about energy, foodsand fueling workouts.
It suggests that maybe focusingon your gut health and how your
mitochondria function might bea more effective long-term
strategy.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Okay, so let's recap this journey quickly.
We started with this concept oflectins the plant paradox idea.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Then we dissected a whole bunch of common snacks,
uncovering some prettysurprising avoid recommendations
and interesting swaps, allbased on this specific framework
.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And finally, we explored this different
perspective on food and energy,moving away from just quick fuel
and focusing on mitochondrialhealth and the gut microbiome.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Yeah, the core message from these sources seems
to be pay close attention toingredients, understand how
different foods are actuallyprocessed by your body, and
consider the downstream effectson your gut and your cellular
energy production.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
So here's where it gets really interesting to think
about.
If you take that idea from thesource seriously that combining
simple protein and simple sugarcreates gridlock for your
mitochondria, does that changehow you look at maybe seemingly
innocent food combinations youeat, or those common energy
boosting snacks like thatprotein bar or fruit smoothie
(21:01):
you might grab, thinking it'shealthy?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Definitely something to ponder as you reach for your
next snack choice.
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