June 12, 2025 • 24 mins
Longevity risk presents a significant challenge for retirees, with medical advancements potentially extending lifespans and creating decades-long retirements that require careful financial planning.
• Running out of money in retirement is often feared more than death itself
• Life expectancy now averages 79.5 years for men and 82 years for women
• Most retirees now believe they need about $1.5 million to retire comfortably
• Estimate your personal timeline based on health, family history, and lifestyle
• Consider delaying Social Security to age 70 for up to 77% higher payments
• Explore appropriate annuities for guaranteed lifetime income
• Consider adopting a flexible withdrawal strategy with different "buckets" for different timeframes
• Consider how market volatility impacts your withdrawal strategy
• Plan for long-term care before you may need it, with 70% of people over 65 likely needing care
• Average nursing home costs can exceed $8,669 per month nationally
• Explore hybrid long-term care and life insurance options
• Consider part-time work or phased retirement for both financial and emotional transition
Schedule a complimentary consultation at MasterPlanRetire.com or call 770-980-9262.
Have a topic or question you'd like Mark and Evan to address in a future episode? Email us at info@masterplanretire.com or call 770-980-9262.
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Evan (00:06):
Are you at risk of outliving your money?
Hi folks, welcome back andthank you for joining us.
Welcome to Master PlanRetirement's Retirement Roadmap.
My name is Evan.
With me, as always, retirementplanner Mark Fricks.
Mark, we're going to talk aboutlongevity risk today.
Mark (00:22):
Longevity risk.
That means being too tall.
Evan (00:25):
That's exactly right.
Too tall.
The doorways are too short.
Mark (00:28):
I don't have that problem.
Evan (00:29):
Yeah, so it's actually a huge.
You know, we talk about incomeall the time in retirement.
We talk about tax planning, allthis other stuff.
But longevity risk plays intoit all, because there's a
possibility you could mess upand live too long.
Mark (00:42):
It is, and we actually had clients in yesterday fairly new
clients and we were talkingabout longevity and your family,
health and things like that,and they were like we think 90,
90, whatever.
And then we just started havingthe conversation about
technology, medical technologyespecially.
And how many years ago was itwhere, if you had a heart attack
, you were in the hospital for10 days?
(01:03):
Now, if they don't get you outof the bed the next morning and
you're gone, it's like, well,you know what went wrong.
We've got hips that can bereplaced with a very small
incision now going, I think, infrom the front, if I remember
correctly, and people are outwalking the next day.
But also, I've done a lot ofresearch on this lately, but the
(01:25):
last I read, they'reresearching and hopefully
getting close to being able toclone an organ, your own organ
from your DNA, which means itwould not be rejected.
Imagine growing a new liver, anew heart, whatever in a lab and
then going in, they're, puttingit in and you walk out.
And so I've read that scientistssay that the human body is
designed to last 120 years,except for mobility.
(01:45):
Well, most of mobility has beensolved, of course.
Now we have the memory issuesand hopefully we're getting
closer to that as well, and I'msure we're going to talk a lot
about all of this as we get intotoday's show.
But I used to, in a class Itaught, I would start the class
by saying I want everyone towrite down what age you think
you'll live to, and then I wouldspend about 10 minutes going
over research, going overadvancements, and I'd say now,
(02:08):
write down your age.
And everybody would write downan age like 10, 15 years further
down the road.
So who knows what's going tohappen over the coming years?
Who knows what's going tohappen in our lives personally?
I mean, we could check outtomorrow, right, but you also
have to plan for the longevitywhich we'll talk about today.
Evan (02:24):
Yeah, and these clients we spoke to yesterday actually,
kind of informed, going thisdirection for today's episode.
We asked them their familyhistory, what their health is,
things like that, and they're ina position where they don't
really have heirs other thaneach other.
They want their money to takecare of the other one, whoever
(02:47):
is the survivor.
Mark (02:49):
And then spend it.
Evan (02:49):
And then spend it and it's like, if you, what do you say?
Rather tongue-in-cheek, butstill, if you can tell me you're
a COD, I'll make sure you spendall your dollars right to that
date.
If you know your checkout date,we'll make sure it's down to
zero at that point.
Mark (03:04):
But nobody's ever taken me up on that.
I don't know if it's something Iwant to put money on.
So if you just sign this paperthat way, I'm not liable if you
live too long right.
Evan (03:14):
But it's very real.
And then some people do havemore heirs that they want to
take care of.
It's difficult when, maybeyou're 85, 90 or whatever that
end-of-life age and if you runout of money it's a really hard
time to go back to work.
Mark (03:31):
Yeah, and that's probably the biggest fear we see when
people come in here is outlivingtheir money.
I mean, I would imagine if wetook a survey of folks listening
today it would be 9 out of 10would say running out of money.
And it doesn't really matterhow much money you have.
Evan (03:47):
Well you're absolutely right.
Many retirees fear outlivingtheir money more than death
itself.
So, like you said, longer lifeexpectancies, now averaging, I
didn't realize it was this highnow, averaging nearly 79 1⁄2
years for men and 82 for women.
Mark (04:06):
I didn't realize we'd gotten that high.
To be honest with you,financial planning has got to
account for decades inretirement.
Well, if you've got a coupleone, it's almost always
inevitable that one will liveOutlive the other.
I mean, we normally don't dieat the same time and many times
it's another 10, 15 years.
So we have to take into accountthe age of the couple.
So you're talking about twopeople and again, those numbers
you just gave, if you were toGoogle life expectancy for a
(04:29):
60-year-old, it would be anotherfive to seven years Because if
you made it that far, you'remore likely to live that much
longer because you have childmortality rates, you have just
growing up and things that canhappen.
And so now you're looking intothe 80s and again, that's just
the average.
That's not saying that's it.
(04:50):
That's saying that's theaverage person.
Do you take care of yourself?
That's taking into accountlower class that tend to not eat
as well.
That takes into account peoplethat don't exercise, people that
smoke, people that you know,all these bad habits.
That's all of us.
So you start thinking aboutyourself and how you take care
of yourself.
Hopefully you do and what youdo to you know, to maintain a
(05:11):
good lifestyle, add years.
Evan (05:14):
Yeah, and then that's step one.
You have to estimate yourpersonal timeline.
I mean, there are also placesyou know your health, you know
your family history.
You can be honest about thatstuff.
But there are also onlineresources.
Mark (05:25):
Estimators, or whatever.
Evan (05:26):
There's a social security life estimator or expectancy
calculator and the Blue Zonestrue vitality test.
Actually you know the spots,the Blue Zones where people live
longer.
That's true, but you've got tounderstand your family history,
your habits, lifestyle choices.
Obviously all of that playsinto longevity, but know your
number.
So this is a general.
(05:47):
This is a very broad, blanketgeneralization.
But most retirees now believethey'll need around 1.5 million
to retire comfortably and that'sa 15% increase from last year.
That's way past inflation.
Mark (06:02):
Wow, I wonder where that came from or why.
It may be because of the waythe economy is.
I think that's part of it, eventhough inflation was not that
high.
But still, you start thinkingabout where you're at now and we
were talking about this theother day with some clients as
well is, behaviorally speaking,the way people think is where
you're at now and we weretalking about this the other day
with some clients as well as is, behaviorally speaking, the way
people think is where you're atnow is where you're always
(06:22):
going to be, so related to themarket.
If the market's bad now, oh,it's always going to be bad.
If the market's great, oh, it'salways going to climb.
That also applies in yourpersonal life, too.
Where you're at right now.
Right now, I'm really struggling.
I'm having to clip coupons, orso I'm going to need more money,
or maybe things are reallygoing great hey, I don't need as
much.
But right now, with the way theeconomy is, I think people are
(06:44):
thinking a little more negativefrom that standpoint.
So, and and and do you know?
I appreciate you saying that'sa very general statement.
We've got folks that are notgoing to run out of money based
on everything we've done, andthey have half a million dollars
.
So how much are you spending?
Where are you living?
We've got people that are maybeliving with their kids in the
(07:04):
basement, nice little apartmentsuite.
Other people have two homes, soit's a very broad statement,
but something we deal with everyday.
It's so critical to know whatkind of money you need and how
is it going to last and whatstrategies can we take to make
sure it does last.
And that's one of the fun parts, I think, of our job.
(07:24):
It really is coming up withthese designs, these strategic
plans that take into account allthe things that can happen and
still have an assurance thatmoney is going to last a
lifetime.
Evan (07:35):
Yeah right, and you know, like everything else, we
typically start with income.
But a general rule to considerfor yourself again, another
broad, blanket statement butyou've got the 80% income rule.
That's just a starting point.
So you're aiming to replaceabout 80% of your pre-retirement
income, but you've got toadjust it based on your goals,
your health potential for a longlife, especially and this is a
(07:58):
big one if you're planning onretiring early.
Mark (08:01):
Yeah, and so personally, what I would do is I would start
with 100%, but make sure it's100% of what you bring home,
Because some of what you makeyou probably put into your 401k
or thrift savings plan orwhatever.
Part of what you make may go toother things, maybe extra life
insurance at work.
Part of what you make may go toother things, maybe extra life
insurance at work.
So look at what comes in everymonth or year or whatever and
(08:21):
say that's what I want coming inin retirement.
Evan (08:24):
I'd rather guess high than low, Especially if you're early
because you might not havehealth insurance so you're 65.
There's so many extra factorsplaying in to the equation when
you retire earlier.
Mark (08:41):
Yeah, and a lot of people say, well, my house will be paid
for when I'm 65.
But what we're finding is a lotof people are downsizing and
they're not getting enough moneyout of their current house to
downsize, so to speak.
Right, If you're listening onthe radio I'm using air quotes,
by the way so downsizing doesn'tnecessarily mean you're
spending less money, and maybeyou want to live in a place
that's a little more desirablefor seniors.
Maybe it's a mountain town ordown in Florida.
Evan (08:59):
Or even a 55 and up community.
Those aren't cheap.
Mark (09:01):
Those are not cheap.
And just the homeowner's fees.
I'm hearing like $400 a month,$600 a month, $900 a month just
for the homeowner associationfees, so you can get all these
extra things.
And so I would use 100% and sayyou say I'm always going to
have a house payment.
Hopefully you won't, but goahead and go with it.
(09:22):
Guess high, don't guess low.
Evan (09:24):
Well, another point to that.
I don't want to get off on toomany rabbit trails, but we don't
meet too many people who wantto take a pay cut in retirement.
A lot of people work reallyhard, save for years and years
and years.
They want retirement to betheir golden years.
They want to be that time tocut loose and enjoy and not
worry so much, not take a paycut.
So the next step would be tomaximize your Social Security
(09:47):
strategy.
It's a foundational incomesource in retirement.
We've just recently had aSocial Security episode.
Go check that one out if youhaven't seen it yet.
Delaying benefits from age 62 to70 can boost payments up to 77%
.
You should consider foryourself what works for you.
Obviously, if you need themoney, you got to turn it on.
But considering your lifespan,your history and family, how
(10:10):
long you think you're going tolive?
30 years is a long time to lockin a lower amount.
If you're a couple, considersplitting a strategy like 62 and
70.
One takes it earlier, one maybetakes it later, the larger of
the two.
So that's also a legacyplanning strategy.
If someone were to pass awaywith the larger amount, that
larger amount gets passed on tothe survivor.
(10:31):
There are a lot of strategiesto consider and again, like
everything else we always say,say it's very specific to your
case and where you need it tofit in.
Mark (10:39):
Yeah, because if you, if you think about working some
after retirement, doingsomething that's fun, you enjoy,
uh, you're limited on how muchyou can make if you turn on
social security social securitybefore full retirement age,
which for most of you is age 67.
So that's got to be taken intoaccount because you'll be
penalized.
Also, you have to take intoaccount from a standpoint of
(11:02):
spousal benefits.
Now, this is a Social Securityshow, okay, episode.
But spousal benefits, which isbenefits that your spouse would
get.
If they are getting less thanhalf of yours, or if they don't
qualify for Social Security,your spouse can actually get
half of yours.
Okay, a lot of people don'trealize that, but they can't get
it until you turn your zone.
(11:24):
But also, theirs does not growanymore after age 67.
So I would prefer to go aheadand get the spousal benefits
turned down at 67, no moregrowth left.
So what do you do with theother spouse?
How old are they?
It can really get complicatedand you know we do have a
certification in social securityplanning so we can answer those
questions for you.
Just don't think it's set itand forget it.
(11:45):
Hey, let's just turn it on,because I'm retiring this year
at 66 and eight months orwhatever it might be.
Have a plan and maximize that.
I mean, we have great softwarethat helps us, but mostly it's
our experience, because we knowwhat people say, what they do,
where they've been.
We've got many, many clientsthat we've walked through that
(12:05):
path of turning on socialsecurity, watching how it works.
In fact, one of the things Iwould recommend folks do is
visit the websitemasterplanretirecom.
We have a schedule, a meetingbutton Almost every page has
that and our calendar will popup.
You'll get to choose a time fora complimentary discussion
about your situation, and it caninclude social security.
(12:28):
You know we've been thinkingabout turning it on.
Should we?
Should we not?
We can have that discussionright there.
Okay, gather enough informationto be able to at least give you
some guidance and then, if sodesired, we can run a series of
reports to show all thedifferent areas that could
affect what your decision-making, your strategies and that's
complimentary too, and so thatis so invaluable.
(12:49):
People walk away whether youbecome a client or not, that's
not of the utmost importance,it's knowing where you're at,
and that way you have a betteridea of how to get where you
want to be.
So, masterplanretirecom, orgive us a call, 770-980-9262,
and schedule again a time to.
We'll start with a chat Zoomchat, face-to-face phone chat,
(13:13):
whatever and we'll see where itgoes from there.
But that is complimentary, sotake advantage of that.
Evan (13:17):
Yeah, I mean it's obviously.
We're a business, we love newclients.
It's one of our favorite things.
New clients are great, but theyare really valuable
consultations.
You get a 10,000 foot view ofyour own retirement.
You can see your strengths andweaknesses laid out for you.
And that's no commitment fromyou.
That's just showing up andspeaking to us and we'll run
(13:37):
that for you.
Take advantage of it.
It's really helpful.
Another point for longevityrisk to consider annuities for
guaranteed income.
Now, despite mixed opinions,we've actually had our last
annuity.
Specific episode was probablyabout a year ago.
Might want to do another one,but we know that I don't know.
(13:59):
What do you say about 85, 90%of the annuities out there?
You wouldn't touch with the10-foot pole, but the good
products are fantastic andthey're the most popular
financial product right now.
Period.
Mark (14:11):
Billions of dollars flowing into these, and the
reason is is because they giveyou a lifetime of income.
The right ones, Okay, and andthat's what we're looking for is
is whether I live to be 88 andthere's money left over and it
goes to my spouse or my heirs,or whether I spend all that
annuity money.
It still keeps sending paymentsjust like social security, Okay
(14:32):
, Maybe even stronger thansocial security.
Well, there's so muchflexibility and there are so
many different products that canbe payments.
Just like Social Security, okay, Maybe even stronger than
Social Security.
Evan (14:37):
Well, there's so much flexibility and there's so many
different products that can bedesigned for different uses Just
for the personal use of theperson we're working with.
Make sure you don't just walkinto an insurance agency and say
I need an annuity.
It needs to be part of a plan,just like anything else that we
recommend, anything else wediscuss, any portfolio or any
strategy.
(14:57):
It's all got to work with youroverall plan.
You can't just throw an annuityout of the wall and hope it'll
stick.
Mark (15:03):
It'd be like walking into a auto repair shop or auto parts
place or whatever and say Ineed a water pump.
What kind of car, I don't care,just give me a water pump.
I'll make it fit.
I mean that's bad, Okay, don'tdo that.
But I'm pump, I'll make it fit.
I mean that's bad, Okay, don'tdo that.
But I'm serious.
I've had people walk in.
I'll say why did you buy thisannuity?
"A friend of mine was sellingthem.
Evan (15:22):
"I heard you're supposed to for retirement.
Mark (15:24):
Yeah, or read something or whatever, and I'm like, well,
this one doesn't really fit yoursituation.
You're also locked in now.
You may not.
Maybe it's gone.
You know some are short, someare long, but don't, yeah, don't
let somebody sell it to you.
It needs to fit your situation,yeah.
Evan (15:42):
There are annuities that have beneficiaries now, so even
if it's turned on, the income isstreaming, if there's still
money left after you pass awaythat can be passed on to a
beneficiary.
There are also annuities thatthe income has the potential to
grow with inflation or greaterthan inflation, which is huge
for longevity risk.
There are just so many tools.
There are long-term carebenefit riders that you can put
Mark (16:05):
Where your income increases if you have a
long-term care need.
Evan (16:10):
But again, we talk about this all the time.
We don't push product, we pushprocess.
We've got to create a strategy,but there are so many options
that it can get overwhelming andit has to fit within your plan
and they get complicated, I mean.
Mark (16:22):
That's why we try to bring it down to the level that these
are the four benefits.
This is the one or two.
Everything has a negative,right.
I mean every investment has anegative, everything has a
negative.
So you weigh the positive withthe negative and then you take
those positives.
How does it fit your situation?
How do we negate the negativesand make it perfect for your
situation?
(16:42):
And many times it might be asolution of two or three
different annuities for a client, one's for short-term income,
you know, to bridge a gap, maybeuntil social security or
whatever.
Then maybe another one kind ofladdered, so it starts in, maybe
in eight or ten years when agreater need is there.
Whatever, I mean, everysituation is different, but most
(17:05):
of our clients have two, threeor four, each one that works a
little bit differently, to filla need.
Evan (17:10):
Yeah, and you have to.
That brings us to the nextpoint.
You need to adopt a flexiblewithdrawal strategy and really,
for us, the greater point is wecreate an income plan for our
clients.
You have to know where yourmoney is coming from.
We have to have that guaranteedincome, which is what annuities
can provide, which is whatpensions, social Security, the
guaranteed income.
But you also need to adopt aflexible withdrawal strategy
(17:32):
because you also need marketmoney.
You also need money that'sgoing to grow.
It's the old have to versushope so money.
Mark (17:40):
Yeah, have to money, which is your income.
You have to pay the light bill,you have to pay the car payment
or whatever, but then your hope.
So money is money, that is.
I hope we can take a vacationnext year.
If the market's up, I can takesome money out.
I need a new roof.
Should I do it this year ornext year?
When the market's up this year,let's take the money out this
year and so that's backup money.
(18:01):
And so that's why as I thinkwe've said this before in an
episode most people have one ortwo big buckets of money and
they're 401K, they're through asavings plan, 403b, and they
have one job all these years andthat's to grow.
You put money in.
Hopefully somebody matches it.
Market grows over time, but inretirement there are six, seven,
(18:23):
eight different jobs that needto be done.
You can't do that with one bigball of money.
Evan (18:34):
Yeah, and I'm begging you, if you hear nothing else, do
not just turn on withdrawalsfrom your market account, from
your 401k, from your IRA, unlessyou have a withdrawal strategy
.
You need to adjust yourwithdrawals based on market
performance helps preserve yourportfolio, providing stability.
Flexibility through retirementDiversity within retirement
accounts helps provide optionsin any market.
So, for instance, the firsthalf of this year it's real
rocky, taking from a moderate toaggressive 401k holding, even
(18:57):
more conservative holdings,mutual funds, I mean.
if you're locked into those andyou can't change your
investments more than quarterlyor anything else like that,
that's not a withdrawal strategy.
You're kind of locked intolocking in those losses in your
account.
Mark (19:14):
Let's take the last few months.
I call this a sideways market.
One day I'd be up 300, one dayit's down 400.
Imagine if you're getting$1,000 a month from your stock
market account for retirement.
What day is that coming out?
Is it the day the market's down400 or the day it's up 400?
I don't know.
You don't know.
And that's why you don't want asteady income flow from market
(19:36):
money.
You want it from stable money,whether it's protected growth or
an annuity or whatever.
You want that to be stable.
You want that to be guaranteed.
I don't want to wake up everymorning looking at the stock
market wondering can I do awithdrawal today, my lot bills
do, or whatever, or knowing it'sgoing to come out on the 15th
every month.
And in the middle of the monthyou're looking at the market.
(19:56):
What's it doing?
Because it's coming out inthree days.
Two days, one day.
What kind of retirement is that?
How can I just?
It would cause me so muchstress.
Evan (20:05):
Yeah, and you know, and this is, we're just speaking of
small pieces.
Of a big Of a huge strategy andplan, but you also want to
ensure that your differentbuckets of accounts have
different time horizons Because,just as Mark said, if you need
money soon, you don't want topull from a bucket that's super
volatile.
But that volatile bucket is areally great 10-year bucket.
(20:26):
I'm not going to touch that for10 years.
I know in 10 years it's goingto be up.
Maybe that's my long-term careplanning bucket, or something
like that.
Mark (20:32):
Well, also the money that we do in the market.
Of course we have activelymanaged accounts.
They're computer drivenalgorithms, and so we like
different flavors.
So our typical client mighthave three, four, five, six
different portfolios.
One does great in this kind ofmarket, another one does great
in that kind of market, sothere's always something that
(20:52):
should be up, and because if youlook at any market, there's
always something making money.
2008, 2009, when the marketlost 56%, the S&P gold was up
500%.
So most of our clients have alittle bit of a gold portfolio,
right.
So right now I'd say probablytwo thirds of our portfolios are
(21:13):
in positive territory, and theones that aren't, it's because
they're more of a heavy growthbucket.
But guess what?
Next year they'll probablyskyrocket.
So again, it's all part of thatputting together that income
and growth plan.
Evan (21:30):
So we only have a couple minutes left.
But one of the biggest risks tolongevity of your money
long-term care.
You've got to plan forlong-term care before you need
it folks.
With 70% of people over 65likely to need long-term care,
the plan is essential.
Nursing home costs an averageof $8,669 per month.
That's nationally.
(21:50):
It's over $9,000 in Georgia fora private room.
Medicare doesn't usually coverthem.
Generally over a hundred,generally, excuse me, only a
hundred days.
Relying on personal savings orfamily support can create
emotional and financial strain.
We also know that that tends todrain the bucket real fast.
There are a lot of options.
(22:11):
You know one, one reallypopular one these days,
exploring long-term care andhybrid life insurance options.
Mark (22:16):
Yeah, there are hybrid tools out there now the old,
exploring long-term care andhybrid life insurance options.
Yeah, there are hybrid toolsout there now.
The old traditional long-termcare policy was kind of like a
health insurance policy If youdon't use it you've wasted your
money.
Those have gotten verydifficult to get.
They've gotten very expensive.
They're going up every fewyears.
Only a few carriers left forthat.
But there are some hybrid toolsAgain.
We mentioned earlier an annuitythat could double or even
(22:37):
triple your income if you have along-term care need Again, a
hybrid life policy where thedeath benefit can be used for
long-term care and you don't payfor that rider unless you
utilize it.
And then it comes out of thosepayments 5% or so.
We might need another alertepisode.
That might be a whole episode,but ask us about it.
Schedule that time.
(22:58):
Masterplanretirecom.
If we've hidden, hit any button.
If you've had experience thosepeople that have had experience
with family members, loved ones,with a long-term care situation
, whether it be home health,whether it be whatever they know
the toll, they know the costand so, yeah, that's that's got
to be part of your plan.
Evan (23:17):
Yeah, and there are a lot of other options too.
If you're lucky enough to havean HSA, if you have a high
deductible health insurance plan, those can be super powerful in
retirement.
Again, you might want toconsider part-time work or
phased retirement.
Not everyone is just calling itquits all at once.
Sometimes it's easier, not onlyfinancially but emotionally and
psychologically, to phase outyour retirement, maybe work
(23:39):
part-time.
Mark (23:41):
We're seeing more and more clients that are doing that.
I'm just not quitting becausepeople are retiring earlier.
If you retire at age 60, that'spretty young, so you might want
to do something with your time.
It could be volunteer, but itcould be making some extra money
as well.
That's good, great episode, we.
It could be volunteer, but itcould be making some extra money
as well.
Yeah, that's good, greatepisode.
We've enjoyed you being with us.
Tell your friends about it, butin the meantime, until we see
each other again, plan well andprosper.
(24:02):
Take care.
This was Retirement RoadmapRadio with Mark Fricks of Master
Plan Retirement Consultants.
To schedule a complimentaryconsultation, go to
MasterPlanRetirecom or call770-980-9262.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Thanks for listening and remember.
Plan well and prosper and norepresentations can be made as
to its accuracy.
All ideas and informationshould be discussed in detail
with one of our qualifiedrepresentatives prior to
implementation.
Advisory services offered byMaster Plan Retirement
Consultants.
A registered investment advisorin the state of Georgia, Mark
Fricks, and Master PlanRetirement Consultants are not
affiliated with or endorsed bythe Social Security
Administration or any othergovernment agency.
Are you at risk of outliving your money?
Hi folks, welcome back andthank you for joining us.
Welcome to Master PlanRetirement's Retirement Roadmap.
My name is Evan.
With me, as always, retirementplanner Mark Fricks.
Mark, we're going to talk aboutlongevity risk today.
Mark (00:22):
Longevity risk.
That means being too tall.
Evan (00:25):
That's exactly right.
Too tall.
The doorways are too short.
Mark (00:28):
I don't have that problem.
Evan (00:29):
Yeah, so it's actually a huge.
You know, we talk about incomeall the time in retirement.
We talk about tax planning, allthis other stuff.
But longevity risk plays intoit all, because there's a
possibility you could mess upand live too long.
Mark (00:42):
It is, and we actually had clients in yesterday fairly new
clients and we were talkingabout longevity and your family,
health and things like that,and they were like we think 90,
90, whatever.
And then we just started havingthe conversation about
technology, medical technologyespecially.
And how many years ago was itwhere, if you had a heart attack
, you were in the hospital for10 days?
(01:03):
Now, if they don't get you outof the bed the next morning and
you're gone, it's like, well,you know what went wrong.
We've got hips that can bereplaced with a very small
incision now going, I think, infrom the front, if I remember
correctly, and people are outwalking the next day.
But also, I've done a lot ofresearch on this lately, but the
(01:25):
last I read, they'reresearching and hopefully
getting close to being able toclone an organ, your own organ
from your DNA, which means itwould not be rejected.
Imagine growing a new liver, anew heart, whatever in a lab and
then going in, they're, puttingit in and you walk out.
And so I've read that scientistssay that the human body is
designed to last 120 years,except for mobility.
(01:45):
Well, most of mobility has beensolved, of course.
Now we have the memory issuesand hopefully we're getting
closer to that as well, and I'msure we're going to talk a lot
about all of this as we get intotoday's show.
But I used to, in a class Itaught, I would start the class
by saying I want everyone towrite down what age you think
you'll live to, and then I wouldspend about 10 minutes going
over research, going overadvancements, and I'd say now,
(02:08):
write down your age.
And everybody would write downan age like 10, 15 years further
down the road.
So who knows what's going tohappen over the coming years?
Who knows what's going tohappen in our lives personally?
I mean, we could check outtomorrow, right, but you also
have to plan for the longevitywhich we'll talk about today.
Evan (02:24):
Yeah, and these clients we spoke to yesterday actually,
kind of informed, going thisdirection for today's episode.
We asked them their familyhistory, what their health is,
things like that, and they're ina position where they don't
really have heirs other thaneach other.
They want their money to takecare of the other one, whoever
(02:47):
is the survivor.
Mark (02:49):
And then spend it.
Evan (02:49):
And then spend it and it's like, if you, what do you say?
Rather tongue-in-cheek, butstill, if you can tell me you're
a COD, I'll make sure you spendall your dollars right to that
date.
If you know your checkout date,we'll make sure it's down to
zero at that point.
Mark (03:04):
But nobody's ever taken me up on that.
I don't know if it's something Iwant to put money on.
So if you just sign this paperthat way, I'm not liable if you
live too long right.
Evan (03:14):
But it's very real.
And then some people do havemore heirs that they want to
take care of.
It's difficult when, maybeyou're 85, 90 or whatever that
end-of-life age and if you runout of money it's a really hard
time to go back to work.
Mark (03:31):
Yeah, and that's probably the biggest fear we see when
people come in here is outlivingtheir money.
I mean, I would imagine if wetook a survey of folks listening
today it would be 9 out of 10would say running out of money.
And it doesn't really matterhow much money you have.
Evan (03:47):
Well you're absolutely right.
Many retirees fear outlivingtheir money more than death
itself.
So, like you said, longer lifeexpectancies, now averaging, I
didn't realize it was this highnow, averaging nearly 79 1⁄2
years for men and 82 for women.
Mark (04:06):
I didn't realize we'd gotten that high.
To be honest with you,financial planning has got to
account for decades inretirement.
Well, if you've got a coupleone, it's almost always
inevitable that one will liveOutlive the other.
I mean, we normally don't dieat the same time and many times
it's another 10, 15 years.
So we have to take into accountthe age of the couple.
So you're talking about twopeople and again, those numbers
you just gave, if you were toGoogle life expectancy for a
(04:29):
60-year-old, it would be anotherfive to seven years Because if
you made it that far, you'remore likely to live that much
longer because you have childmortality rates, you have just
growing up and things that canhappen.
And so now you're looking intothe 80s and again, that's just
the average.
That's not saying that's it.
(04:50):
That's saying that's theaverage person.
Do you take care of yourself?
That's taking into accountlower class that tend to not eat
as well.
That takes into account peoplethat don't exercise, people that
smoke, people that you know,all these bad habits.
That's all of us.
So you start thinking aboutyourself and how you take care
of yourself.
Hopefully you do and what youdo to you know, to maintain a
(05:11):
good lifestyle, add years.
Evan (05:14):
Yeah, and then that's step one.
You have to estimate yourpersonal timeline.
I mean, there are also placesyou know your health, you know
your family history.
You can be honest about thatstuff.
But there are also onlineresources.
Mark (05:25):
Estimators, or whatever.
Evan (05:26):
There's a social security life estimator or expectancy
calculator and the Blue Zonestrue vitality test.
Actually you know the spots,the Blue Zones where people live
longer.
That's true, but you've got tounderstand your family history,
your habits, lifestyle choices.
Obviously all of that playsinto longevity, but know your
number.
So this is a general.
(05:47):
This is a very broad, blanketgeneralization.
But most retirees now believethey'll need around 1.5 million
to retire comfortably and that'sa 15% increase from last year.
That's way past inflation.
Mark (06:02):
Wow, I wonder where that came from or why.
It may be because of the waythe economy is.
I think that's part of it, eventhough inflation was not that
high.
But still, you start thinkingabout where you're at now and we
were talking about this theother day with some clients as
well is, behaviorally speaking,the way people think is where
you're at now and we weretalking about this the other day
with some clients as well as is, behaviorally speaking, the way
people think is where you're atnow is where you're always
(06:22):
going to be, so related to themarket.
If the market's bad now, oh,it's always going to be bad.
If the market's great, oh, it'salways going to climb.
That also applies in yourpersonal life, too.
Where you're at right now.
Right now, I'm really struggling.
I'm having to clip coupons, orso I'm going to need more money,
or maybe things are reallygoing great hey, I don't need as
much.
But right now, with the way theeconomy is, I think people are
(06:44):
thinking a little more negativefrom that standpoint.
So, and and and do you know?
I appreciate you saying that'sa very general statement.
We've got folks that are notgoing to run out of money based
on everything we've done, andthey have half a million dollars
.
So how much are you spending?
Where are you living?
We've got people that are maybeliving with their kids in the
(07:04):
basement, nice little apartmentsuite.
Other people have two homes, soit's a very broad statement,
but something we deal with everyday.
It's so critical to know whatkind of money you need and how
is it going to last and whatstrategies can we take to make
sure it does last.
And that's one of the fun parts, I think, of our job.
(07:24):
It really is coming up withthese designs, these strategic
plans that take into account allthe things that can happen and
still have an assurance thatmoney is going to last a
lifetime.
Evan (07:35):
Yeah right, and you know, like everything else, we
typically start with income.
But a general rule to considerfor yourself again, another
broad, blanket statement butyou've got the 80% income rule.
That's just a starting point.
So you're aiming to replaceabout 80% of your pre-retirement
income, but you've got toadjust it based on your goals,
your health potential for a longlife, especially and this is a
(07:58):
big one if you're planning onretiring early.
Mark (08:01):
Yeah, and so personally, what I would do is I would start
with 100%, but make sure it's100% of what you bring home,
Because some of what you makeyou probably put into your 401k
or thrift savings plan orwhatever.
Part of what you make may go toother things, maybe extra life
insurance at work.
Part of what you make may go toother things, maybe extra life
insurance at work.
So look at what comes in everymonth or year or whatever and
(08:21):
say that's what I want coming inin retirement.
Evan (08:24):
I'd rather guess high than low, Especially if you're early
because you might not havehealth insurance so you're 65.
There's so many extra factorsplaying in to the equation when
you retire earlier.
Mark (08:41):
Yeah, and a lot of people say, well, my house will be paid
for when I'm 65.
But what we're finding is a lotof people are downsizing and
they're not getting enough moneyout of their current house to
downsize, so to speak.
Right, If you're listening onthe radio I'm using air quotes,
by the way so downsizing doesn'tnecessarily mean you're
spending less money, and maybeyou want to live in a place
that's a little more desirablefor seniors.
Maybe it's a mountain town ordown in Florida.
Evan (08:59):
Or even a 55 and up community.
Those aren't cheap.
Mark (09:01):
Those are not cheap.
And just the homeowner's fees.
I'm hearing like $400 a month,$600 a month, $900 a month just
for the homeowner associationfees, so you can get all these
extra things.
And so I would use 100% and sayyou say I'm always going to
have a house payment.
Hopefully you won't, but goahead and go with it.
(09:22):
Guess high, don't guess low.
Evan (09:24):
Well, another point to that.
I don't want to get off on toomany rabbit trails, but we don't
meet too many people who wantto take a pay cut in retirement.
A lot of people work reallyhard, save for years and years
and years.
They want retirement to betheir golden years.
They want to be that time tocut loose and enjoy and not
worry so much, not take a paycut.
So the next step would be tomaximize your Social Security
(09:47):
strategy.
It's a foundational incomesource in retirement.
We've just recently had aSocial Security episode.
Go check that one out if youhaven't seen it yet.
Delaying benefits from age 62 to70 can boost payments up to 77%
.
You should consider foryourself what works for you.
Obviously, if you need themoney, you got to turn it on.
But considering your lifespan,your history and family, how
(10:10):
long you think you're going tolive?
30 years is a long time to lockin a lower amount.
If you're a couple, considersplitting a strategy like 62 and
70.
One takes it earlier, one maybetakes it later, the larger of
the two.
So that's also a legacyplanning strategy.
If someone were to pass awaywith the larger amount, that
larger amount gets passed on tothe survivor.
(10:31):
There are a lot of strategiesto consider and again, like
everything else we always say,say it's very specific to your
case and where you need it tofit in.
Mark (10:39):
Yeah, because if you, if you think about working some
after retirement, doingsomething that's fun, you enjoy,
uh, you're limited on how muchyou can make if you turn on
social security social securitybefore full retirement age,
which for most of you is age 67.
So that's got to be taken intoaccount because you'll be
penalized.
Also, you have to take intoaccount from a standpoint of
(11:02):
spousal benefits.
Now, this is a Social Securityshow, okay, episode.
But spousal benefits, which isbenefits that your spouse would
get.
If they are getting less thanhalf of yours, or if they don't
qualify for Social Security,your spouse can actually get
half of yours.
Okay, a lot of people don'trealize that, but they can't get
it until you turn your zone.
(11:24):
But also, theirs does not growanymore after age 67.
So I would prefer to go aheadand get the spousal benefits
turned down at 67, no moregrowth left.
So what do you do with theother spouse?
How old are they?
It can really get complicatedand you know we do have a
certification in social securityplanning so we can answer those
questions for you.
Just don't think it's set itand forget it.
(11:45):
Hey, let's just turn it on,because I'm retiring this year
at 66 and eight months orwhatever it might be.
Have a plan and maximize that.
I mean, we have great softwarethat helps us, but mostly it's
our experience, because we knowwhat people say, what they do,
where they've been.
We've got many, many clientsthat we've walked through that
(12:05):
path of turning on socialsecurity, watching how it works.
In fact, one of the things Iwould recommend folks do is
visit the websitemasterplanretirecom.
We have a schedule, a meetingbutton Almost every page has
that and our calendar will popup.
You'll get to choose a time fora complimentary discussion
about your situation, and it caninclude social security.
(12:28):
You know we've been thinkingabout turning it on.
Should we?
Should we not?
We can have that discussionright there.
Okay, gather enough informationto be able to at least give you
some guidance and then, if sodesired, we can run a series of
reports to show all thedifferent areas that could
affect what your decision-making, your strategies and that's
complimentary too, and so thatis so invaluable.
(12:49):
People walk away whether youbecome a client or not, that's
not of the utmost importance,it's knowing where you're at,
and that way you have a betteridea of how to get where you
want to be.
So, masterplanretirecom, orgive us a call, 770-980-9262,
and schedule again a time to.
We'll start with a chat Zoomchat, face-to-face phone chat,
(13:13):
whatever and we'll see where itgoes from there.
But that is complimentary, sotake advantage of that.
Evan (13:17):
Yeah, I mean it's obviously.
We're a business, we love newclients.
It's one of our favorite things.
New clients are great, but theyare really valuable
consultations.
You get a 10,000 foot view ofyour own retirement.
You can see your strengths andweaknesses laid out for you.
And that's no commitment fromyou.
That's just showing up andspeaking to us and we'll run
(13:37):
that for you.
Take advantage of it.
It's really helpful.
Another point for longevityrisk to consider annuities for
guaranteed income.
Now, despite mixed opinions,we've actually had our last
annuity.
Specific episode was probablyabout a year ago.
Might want to do another one,but we know that I don't know.
(13:59):
What do you say about 85, 90%of the annuities out there?
You wouldn't touch with the10-foot pole, but the good
products are fantastic andthey're the most popular
financial product right now.
Period.
Mark (14:11):
Billions of dollars flowing into these, and the
reason is is because they giveyou a lifetime of income.
The right ones, Okay, and andthat's what we're looking for is
is whether I live to be 88 andthere's money left over and it
goes to my spouse or my heirs,or whether I spend all that
annuity money.
It still keeps sending paymentsjust like social security, Okay
(14:32):
, Maybe even stronger thansocial security.
Well, there's so muchflexibility and there are so
many different products that canbe payments.
Just like Social Security, okay, Maybe even stronger than
Social Security.
Evan (14:37):
Well, there's so much flexibility and there's so many
different products that can bedesigned for different uses Just
for the personal use of theperson we're working with.
Make sure you don't just walkinto an insurance agency and say
I need an annuity.
It needs to be part of a plan,just like anything else that we
recommend, anything else wediscuss, any portfolio or any
strategy.
(14:57):
It's all got to work with youroverall plan.
You can't just throw an annuityout of the wall and hope it'll
stick.
Mark (15:03):
It'd be like walking into a auto repair shop or auto parts
place or whatever and say Ineed a water pump.
What kind of car, I don't care,just give me a water pump.
I'll make it fit.
I mean that's bad, Okay, don'tdo that.
But I'm pump, I'll make it fit.
I mean that's bad, Okay, don'tdo that.
But I'm serious.
I've had people walk in.
I'll say why did you buy thisannuity?
"A friend of mine was sellingthem.
Evan (15:22):
"I heard you're supposed to for retirement.
Mark (15:24):
Yeah, or read something or whatever, and I'm like, well,
this one doesn't really fit yoursituation.
You're also locked in now.
You may not.
Maybe it's gone.
You know some are short, someare long, but don't, yeah, don't
let somebody sell it to you.
It needs to fit your situation,yeah.
Evan (15:42):
There are annuities that have beneficiaries now, so even
if it's turned on, the income isstreaming, if there's still
money left after you pass awaythat can be passed on to a
beneficiary.
There are also annuities thatthe income has the potential to
grow with inflation or greaterthan inflation, which is huge
for longevity risk.
There are just so many tools.
There are long-term carebenefit riders that you can put
Mark (16:05):
Where your income increases if you have a
long-term care need.
Evan (16:10):
But again, we talk about this all the time.
We don't push product, we pushprocess.
We've got to create a strategy,but there are so many options
that it can get overwhelming andit has to fit within your plan
and they get complicated, I mean.
Mark (16:22):
That's why we try to bring it down to the level that these
are the four benefits.
This is the one or two.
Everything has a negative,right.
I mean every investment has anegative, everything has a
negative.
So you weigh the positive withthe negative and then you take
those positives.
How does it fit your situation?
How do we negate the negativesand make it perfect for your
situation?
(16:42):
And many times it might be asolution of two or three
different annuities for a client, one's for short-term income,
you know, to bridge a gap, maybeuntil social security or
whatever.
Then maybe another one kind ofladdered, so it starts in, maybe
in eight or ten years when agreater need is there.
Whatever, I mean, everysituation is different, but most
(17:05):
of our clients have two, threeor four, each one that works a
little bit differently, to filla need.
Evan (17:10):
Yeah, and you have to.
That brings us to the nextpoint.
You need to adopt a flexiblewithdrawal strategy and really,
for us, the greater point is wecreate an income plan for our
clients.
You have to know where yourmoney is coming from.
We have to have that guaranteedincome, which is what annuities
can provide, which is whatpensions, social Security, the
guaranteed income.
But you also need to adopt aflexible withdrawal strategy
(17:32):
because you also need marketmoney.
You also need money that'sgoing to grow.
It's the old have to versushope so money.
Mark (17:40):
Yeah, have to money, which is your income.
You have to pay the light bill,you have to pay the car payment
or whatever, but then your hope.
So money is money, that is.
I hope we can take a vacationnext year.
If the market's up, I can takesome money out.
I need a new roof.
Should I do it this year ornext year?
When the market's up this year,let's take the money out this
year and so that's backup money.
(18:01):
And so that's why as I thinkwe've said this before in an
episode most people have one ortwo big buckets of money and
they're 401K, they're through asavings plan, 403b, and they
have one job all these years andthat's to grow.
You put money in.
Hopefully somebody matches it.
Market grows over time, but inretirement there are six, seven,
(18:23):
eight different jobs that needto be done.
You can't do that with one bigball of money.
Evan (18:34):
Yeah, and I'm begging you, if you hear nothing else, do
not just turn on withdrawalsfrom your market account, from
your 401k, from your IRA, unlessyou have a withdrawal strategy
.
You need to adjust yourwithdrawals based on market
performance helps preserve yourportfolio, providing stability.
Flexibility through retirementDiversity within retirement
accounts helps provide optionsin any market.
So, for instance, the firsthalf of this year it's real
rocky, taking from a moderate toaggressive 401k holding, even
(18:57):
more conservative holdings,mutual funds, I mean.
if you're locked into those andyou can't change your
investments more than quarterlyor anything else like that,
that's not a withdrawal strategy.
You're kind of locked intolocking in those losses in your
account.
Mark (19:14):
Let's take the last few months.
I call this a sideways market.
One day I'd be up 300, one dayit's down 400.
Imagine if you're getting$1,000 a month from your stock
market account for retirement.
What day is that coming out?
Is it the day the market's down400 or the day it's up 400?
I don't know.
You don't know.
And that's why you don't want asteady income flow from market
(19:36):
money.
You want it from stable money,whether it's protected growth or
an annuity or whatever.
You want that to be stable.
You want that to be guaranteed.
I don't want to wake up everymorning looking at the stock
market wondering can I do awithdrawal today, my lot bills
do, or whatever, or knowing it'sgoing to come out on the 15th
every month.
And in the middle of the monthyou're looking at the market.
(19:56):
What's it doing?
Because it's coming out inthree days.
Two days, one day.
What kind of retirement is that?
How can I just?
It would cause me so muchstress.
Evan (20:05):
Yeah, and you know, and this is, we're just speaking of
small pieces.
Of a big Of a huge strategy andplan, but you also want to
ensure that your differentbuckets of accounts have
different time horizons Because,just as Mark said, if you need
money soon, you don't want topull from a bucket that's super
volatile.
But that volatile bucket is areally great 10-year bucket.
(20:26):
I'm not going to touch that for10 years.
I know in 10 years it's goingto be up.
Maybe that's my long-term careplanning bucket, or something
like that.
Mark (20:32):
Well, also the money that we do in the market.
Of course we have activelymanaged accounts.
They're computer drivenalgorithms, and so we like
different flavors.
So our typical client mighthave three, four, five, six
different portfolios.
One does great in this kind ofmarket, another one does great
in that kind of market, sothere's always something that
(20:52):
should be up, and because if youlook at any market, there's
always something making money.
2008, 2009, when the marketlost 56%, the S&P gold was up
500%.
So most of our clients have alittle bit of a gold portfolio,
right.
So right now I'd say probablytwo thirds of our portfolios are
(21:13):
in positive territory, and theones that aren't, it's because
they're more of a heavy growthbucket.
But guess what?
Next year they'll probablyskyrocket.
So again, it's all part of thatputting together that income
and growth plan.
Evan (21:30):
So we only have a couple minutes left.
But one of the biggest risks tolongevity of your money
long-term care.
You've got to plan forlong-term care before you need
it folks.
With 70% of people over 65likely to need long-term care,
the plan is essential.
Nursing home costs an averageof $8,669 per month.
That's nationally.
(21:50):
It's over $9,000 in Georgia fora private room.
Medicare doesn't usually coverthem.
Generally over a hundred,generally, excuse me, only a
hundred days.
Relying on personal savings orfamily support can create
emotional and financial strain.
We also know that that tends todrain the bucket real fast.
There are a lot of options.
(22:11):
You know one, one reallypopular one these days,
exploring long-term care andhybrid life insurance options.
Mark (22:16):
Yeah, there are hybrid tools out there now the old,
exploring long-term care andhybrid life insurance options.
Yeah, there are hybrid toolsout there now.
The old traditional long-termcare policy was kind of like a
health insurance policy If youdon't use it you've wasted your
money.
Those have gotten verydifficult to get.
They've gotten very expensive.
They're going up every fewyears.
Only a few carriers left forthat.
But there are some hybrid toolsAgain.
We mentioned earlier an annuitythat could double or even
(22:37):
triple your income if you have along-term care need Again, a
hybrid life policy where thedeath benefit can be used for
long-term care and you don't payfor that rider unless you
utilize it.
And then it comes out of thosepayments 5% or so.
We might need another alertepisode.
That might be a whole episode,but ask us about it.
Schedule that time.
(22:58):
Masterplanretirecom.
If we've hidden, hit any button.
If you've had experience thosepeople that have had experience
with family members, loved ones,with a long-term care situation
, whether it be home health,whether it be whatever they know
the toll, they know the costand so, yeah, that's that's got
to be part of your plan.
Evan (23:17):
Yeah, and there are a lot of other options too.
If you're lucky enough to havean HSA, if you have a high
deductible health insurance plan, those can be super powerful in
retirement.
Again, you might want toconsider part-time work or
phased retirement.
Not everyone is just calling itquits all at once.
Sometimes it's easier, not onlyfinancially but emotionally and
psychologically, to phase outyour retirement, maybe work
(23:39):
part-time.
Mark (23:41):
We're seeing more and more clients that are doing that.
I'm just not quitting becausepeople are retiring earlier.
If you retire at age 60, that'spretty young, so you might want
to do something with your time.
It could be volunteer, but itcould be making some extra money
as well.
That's good, great episode, we.
It could be volunteer, but itcould be making some extra money
as well.
Yeah, that's good, greatepisode.
We've enjoyed you being with us.
Tell your friends about it, butin the meantime, until we see
each other again, plan well andprosper.
(24:02):
Take care.
This was Retirement RoadmapRadio with Mark Fricks of Master
Plan Retirement Consultants.
To schedule a complimentaryconsultation, go to
MasterPlanRetirecom or call770-980-9262.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Thanks for listening and remember.
Plan well and prosper and norepresentations can be made as
to its accuracy.
All ideas and informationshould be discussed in detail
with one of our qualifiedrepresentatives prior to
implementation.
Advisory services offered byMaster Plan Retirement
Consultants.
A registered investment advisorin the state of Georgia, Mark
Fricks, and Master PlanRetirement Consultants are not
affiliated with or endorsed bythe Social Security
Administration or any othergovernment agency.
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